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What if the body of Jesus was found?

  1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago

    Over the last few months, I have been wondering what would happen to the Christian belief, if the body of Jesus was to be discovered. And he did not die as described in the bible. And along with the discovery of the body, the discovery of texts written by Jesus himself and these texts were in major conflict with what is written in the bible today. If these two things did happen and were confirmed to be true, how would this effect or change the Christian belief? Would it be passed off as a fraud, would it be justified using todays bible (apologetics), or would it be accepted and the current Christian belief modified using the new teachings found in the texts of Jesus himself?

    Thoughts and opinions welcomed.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
      Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nothing would change, except perhaps another war over it.

      1. Captain Redbeard profile image59
        Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        hahaha

    2. skye2day profile image85
      skye2dayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It is not going to happen.

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And if it did? What then? If you have an opinion or thought on the actual question posed, it would be appreciated. Simply saying "It is not going to happen", to a hypothetical question is not a thought or opinion for discussion (IMHO)

        1. LewSethics profile image60
          LewSethicsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That's right skye, these discussions are supposed to help us think and expand our mental horizons, use our imaginations, solidify our understanding and tweek our spelling.  Go poop on some other topic.
          Good lookin out, Dub.

    3. Titen-Sxull profile image93
      Titen-Sxullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Logically the physical resurrection of Christ is puzzling when it comes to the traditional Christian narrative of Christ's death as a sacrifice. How can it be called a sacrifice if he returns to life in the same body. Perhaps my values are different from Christians because I think there is far more bravery in a wise man sacrificing himself and knowing full well he will be fully dead than some deity giving up his mortal life for a grand total of three days with the confidence that his death will be brief.

      I think the body would likely weaken the faith of some Christians but then some would just claim its a fraud in the same way that some fringe groups will defend Genesis as literally true and claim all the science surrounding evolution is a fraud.

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I thought about this as well. I am sure, that the bible passage referring to Jesus after he was "risen" and those who knew him didn't recognize him would be the arguement used to support that the body died, but he lived on.

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Not saying I buy into the resurrection, or that the Christians have it right; but you are talking about a mortal. I don't know that the Christ continuously displayed a belief in his  close connection  to the deity. His own words go back and forth. Sometimes talking as if separated and then sometimes refering to himself as I AM.

        I assumed the mortal was crucified, having fullness of faith in the will of God. Full faith that he could return as promised. But, it was still a leap of faith to allow the events to transpire. He suffered doubt not only the night of his arrest, but on the cross as well. This was no God prior to the death at the crucifixion.

        A spiritual rebirth would not serve the full purpose. A mortal man dies, and through full faith rises from death. One with God, only after fully believing and living through the events that transpired because of that belief. I'm not sure any other scenario could make the same point. If the text were true, he'd be the first risen of the new way.

    4. Dave Mathews profile image60
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If this ever happened then Christianity would disintegrate before your eyes. It would also destroy Jewish religion too for it like Christianity is based upon the Holy Bible and that is based upon the Jewish Torah or bible. It would make all religion skeptical.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Welcome to the world. smile

        1. Dave Mathews profile image60
          Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The world according to whom?

        2. skye2day profile image85
          skye2dayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Right on Dave. Jesus rose from he grave and His garmets were all that was sitting in the tomb. His Body resureccted and made whole, not unbroken. He returned and ate with the disciples.

          Original question. No one will find Jesus bones. Think on the return of Jesus. Much better focus. JK not. God Loves ALL. We choose who we will serve. Jesus or the World. Choose Jesus Christ. He is the only way to life everlasting John 3:16
          In Christ.

          1. Dave Mathews profile image60
            Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            skye2day: You are trying to discuss apples and oranges with someone who doesn't even like fruit. He is just baiting you into an argument.
            I answered the original question but my answer was totally ignored. The ones responding now only seek to argue and they don't really care about what.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I answered your response Dave. I am busy with a few other things, so I am slightly slow getting back to responses.

          2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ok, I understand. You do not wish to answer to question posed. I simply asked a "What If" question and wanted to see the thoughts and opinions based on something of this nature actually occuring.

            Personally, I really don't care what or how you actually believe. To each their own.

          3. EmVeeT profile image80
            EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I agree with several others here. Jesus' body will never be found. "If" there was any chance at all, don't you THINK the religious leaders of HIS Day would have made every effort to uncover that possibility?

            There is no chance. There is no way. This will never occur.

            HE'll return though, and let you know Himself, when the Day of L'RD arrives. On that day HE WILL clarify so much!

            In the meantime,

            BLESSINGS to you... in THE NAME of THE RESURRECTED MESSIAH!

            1. 70
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus body has been found and he never ascended to skies.

              1. EmVeeT profile image80
                EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Mr. PaarSurrey, this response is to you, Sir.

                From where do you get your information? Do you know how utterly ridiculous you sound?

                "If" there was any basis to your statement, then so much of what exists as a form of faith people call Christianity would cease.

                I'm sorry, Mr. Paarsurrey, but the foundations for your information are unreliable. You need to get on your knees and ask G'D for yourself. I know you believe JESUS was a prophet, but I will tell you, plainly. HE WAS NOT A PROPHET. JESUS IS G"D!

                Now, I believe you won't want to do anything I say; however, by continuing as you are, you are placing your soul on this earth in jeopardy. More importantly, you are placing your spirit in eternal jeopardy. Please consider clarifying the facts.

                Ask G'D yourself... not the 'idol' of G'D, in your mind, the made up version,   but THE LIVING G'D. It may well be, that if you repent of all that which you are spouting off, without a measure of substance, HE WILL BE MERCIFUL and answer you, taking care of all these facetious remarks you make.

                Sir, I don't know you and you don't know me. You don't have to listen to anything I say, but it will do your spirit good to give this suggestion a try. You have nothing to lose, but much to gain.

                Ask G'D to make HIMSELF real to you. It may well be that these discussions are HIS Way of bringing you to realize you need to do this, for the sake of your eternal life.

                In the meantime, MAY THE G'D of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob BLESS you, through JESUS, HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, Amen.

                1. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you for feeling so much concern for me.

                  What do you understand from the "begotten son"? Are you a Catholic?

                  1. EmVeeT profile image80
                    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Hello,

                    No. I am no longer Catholic. I was born and raised into a household that held to Catholic religious structures, but I wanted to " know G'D", not just know about G'D, from what I was told. I began searching and searching for HIM. I began reading Scripture and studying various viewpoints, by various theologians, but it wasn't until G'D Himself, in The Person of THE HOLY SPIRIT began to illuminate my eyes and grant me insight I would never have without HIS Help, that I began to understand some truth. That search began well over 30 years ago. I continue to search and analyze, uncover and overturn. I will not cease until I am unable to do so any longer, or until my appointed day with HIM in Eternity.

                    Please do not take my recommendation as an affront. I do not mean to be harsh. However, I do truly want G'D to be seen for WHO HE IS and not what some people 'think' HE Is. There is a vast difference; and that difference equals error. Any error pertaining to G'D equals idolatry.

                    No one can worship a god they do not know, or have made up using bits and pieces of their opinions or the opinions of others. G'D WANTS us to seek HIS FACE; and HE PROMISES to answer our desire to know HIM, if we are sincere.

                    That is what I am suggesting. Don't believe me. Don't believe anyone. Find out for yourself. Seek HIM. If you seek HIM, you shall find HIM... but only if you are sincere.

                    MAY HE BLESS you, Sir, through THE ONE Whose Shed Blood Has The Power to Make every sinner clean! JESUS of Nazareth! Amen.

                  2. deblevey profile image59
                    debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    paarsurrey begotton means born, not created. Jesus Christ is the born Son of God the Father, begotten by the Holy Spirit which came unto the virgin, Mary and 'knew' her in the biblical sense. The truth of this occurrance in the simplest terms is that God in His Spirit form had marital relations with a mortal woman, Mary, who had never been with a man in the same sense, so that there could be no question regarding the paternity of Jesus.  God is His biological Father, which in God's economy, makes Jesus one with God,. i.e.; the physical embodiment OF GOD. This is from which the trinity concept of christianity is originated.  Creator God the Father represent the mind of God, His Sprit is His Soul, and His Son is His Physical manifestation, which was given as a blood offering, first for the Jews, then for the Gentiles.  I am no expert of the Muslim religion, but I am aware that Muslims routinely cite Hebrews 5:7 to repudiate the Christian claim that Jesus suffered, died, was buried and then resurrected on the third day of His 'physical' death.  You cannot accurately interpret this excerpt from Paul's letter to the Hebrews (converted Jews) without referring back to Jesus' prayer in the garden just prior to His betrayal. Luke 22:42 records this request from the Son to the Father, "42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not MY will, but THINE be done.'" It is vitally important to understand here, as previously inferred in scripture, that Jesus is fully Man, as He is born of a mortal woman - Mary; and He is fully God, being of, from and sired by God's Substance, which is
                    His Holy Spirit.  Jesus the Man prays to the Godhead to take the cup - not the cup of death, rather the cup of complete seperation from God the Father.  Jesus did not fear death, He knew He would come back from the dead.  What Jesus the Man feared was seperation from the Triune God. As God, Adoni, meaning earthly Lord, Jesus knew He had to go through with it, thus He acknowledges God's right authority to deny the temporal request of Jesus the Man.

                2. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                  WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Em Vee T - You are special! "Professing to be wise, they became fools . . . " Why waste words? Pray for salvation.

                  1. EmVeeT profile image80
                    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi WD Curry 111,

                    Because I can't hear the sound of your voice, and discern from the inflection of the words you have written, I can't tell if you're mocking me, or telling me to leave people to their misconceptions. I'm going to take it as the latter.

                    However, I disagree with you. I am not wasting my time. I don't know the gentleman to whom I am writing, but there is a possibility that he is seriously searching and is posting irrational thought processes and precepts, because they are all he knows.

                    G'D KNOWS his heart. I don't need to; but I'm believing there's something good in him, something hungry to know THE LIVING G'D, something that urges him to share his understanding, but that is willing to admit, he doesn't really understand.

                    I'm not wasting my time, just as I'm not that special. Honest.

                    I'm simply secure in my faith. I KNOW Whom I Believe. HE IS my Strength; and I rejoice whenever HE Becomes the strength of those who are blinded to the truth by the circumstances of their lives, and the misconceptions they've been fed since childhood.

                    I was one of those individuals once. But by the Grace of G'D, someone cared enough to help me discover my ability to search for G'D myself, not learning from others necessarily, but digging, analyzing, pestering even G'D Himself, until I begin to get, even just a glimmer of comprehension, until HE Gives me something to go by, to rest in, to move forward through. All of this, not because HE Owes me anything. I know better than that; but because HE Invites me to ask HIM, to knock, to seek, to listen, to come to HIM with all my cares and worries.

                    What greater worries can a person have than those fears that haunt us when someone we love dies, and/or our heart is perplexed, broken and anxious due to hardship or pain. G'D Casts out my fears, because HIS Love is perfect. HIS Care of me is complete. HE Meets me where I am, and as I grow, HE Prepares new challenges for me, takes me into new seasons, teaches me things that are more intimately designed to help me reach ever further.

                    WD, I choose to be 'Ezekiel's watchman on the wall'. I will tell anyone whose heart may be even remotely hungry for G'D. I will not stand before my KING, on that day when I finally meet HIM having given HIM nothing of myself, having shared nothing of HIS Truth.

                    HE Is TRUSTING me to share HIS WORD, HIS LOVE and HIS MATCHLESS GRACE. I may be a poor reflection of HIM, but I will make an attempt. HE Deserves no less from me. Neither does my fellow man, whether he seems to really  be interested or not.

                    I want to see each individual through JESUS' Eyes. I pray never to turn my back on someone, even if they 'think' they don't care to know. G'D IS ABLE TO PENETRATE the darkness. I cannot. But I can be the flame HE Ignites or fans to stir the desire for HIS LIGHT.

                    I'm ready to do so... for HIS NAME'S SAKE!

                    ...and yes, I will pray for Salvation as well. You are right. There's power in prayer, power humanity has no idea exists!

                    Thank you for the recommendation. I appreciate your encouragement. I hope I haven't taken your words the wrong way. I truly do appreciate your heart on the matter!

                    MAY G'D BLESS you abundantly, above all your expectations, in ways you can only imagine are possible, so that HE MAY BE GLORIFIED in your life, so that HE MAY DELIGHT in your every action, in your every word! through JESUS our ROCK! Amen.

                    smilewink

            2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I would think that the body of "Jesus" could possibly be found. The body of the Christ, that might be a different story.

              1. 70
                paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Jesus and Christ is the same person.

              2. deblevey profile image59
                debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Double Scorpion  there have been many bodies found of men named "Jesus" or some derivative of that name,  before during and after the time of Christ! There has even been  found a ossuary (tomb) from the correct time span in Jerusalem with bodies of several folks, some related to each other, at least one female was unrelated.  I don't have the article in front of me but I believe the names carved on the 'coffin' (can't spell sarcoff-a-gus, lol) were Joseph, Mary, Mathew, Simeon, Jesus/Jesua and Miriamne, the last person being unrelated to the rest. James Cameron , the director, and some Jewish historian tried to prove these were the bones of the Christ, who had supposedly wed  Mary Magdalene (Miriamne means  'bitter') and His parents - with Simeon being  assumed as His brother and Matthew His offspring, but this has since been refuted.
                Why?  How?  First, in those times, families were buried together in their ancestral homes...neither Joseph (Jesus' legal father) nor Mary (Jesus' mum) were from Jerusalem.  They lived in Nasareth.  Joseph was from Bethlehem, probably Mary as well. Jesus did have a brother named Simeon (not cited in the bible, but in other documents contemorary to that time. He also lived, died and was presumably buried in either Nasareth or Bethlehem. At any rate, the family of Jesus would not have been buried in Jerusalem  Jesus WAS interned neat Jerusalem because that's where He was crucified - executed as a criminal.  Therein lies several plausable explanations as to why Jesus was not interned in the family  tomb. 1.  Jewish law mandated He be buried on the day of His death, the night before Sabbath, before sundown.  He was buried in a new tomb, owned by Joseph of Arimathia (sic) who later died in the British Isles, where his bones still lay. Three days later, that tomb way empty.  No family bones there, nothing but His burial clothes. The Jews would not have reused that tomb.  His followers would not have reused that tomb.  Say what you will about what happened to the body, the bones found in the Jerusalem tomb were in no way connected to Jesus of Nazareth, His mother, step father or anyone else directly related to Him or His ancestors, or His ministry.

      2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I am not sure about the Jewish Traditions...But, I think you make a valid statement. What if the writings were only in contrast to the NT teachings but supported the OT? There are so many different scenarios. Interesting to ponder. Thanks

        1. deblevey profile image59
          debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          One of the strongest arguments for the New Testament is that it correlates so closely with OT prophesy.  Over 83 prophetic sayings regarding the Jewish Messiah were fulfilled by the life and death as well as circumstances surrounding the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, called King of the Jews, by the Roman governor Pontias Pilot, and crucified by the same. (that statement itself fullfilled one prophesy.)  What if this, you say...or what if that....all you have are what ifs.  This is what is.....the NT ccorrelates with the OT...some of us say, perfectly.  Other historical documents exist that lend a certain amount of credibility to the Jewish and Christian scripture. No credible historical recors exist that disprove the historical accuracy of the bible.  In fact, the more archeologists find, the more they find how accurate the biblical record truly is....not what if....what is!

      3. seigfried23 profile image80
        seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I respectfully disagree.  Human beings aren't nearly consistent enough to have their core beliefs challenged by such a thing. They would dissemble, and continue to believe in whatever it was that suited their emotional intelligence and upbringing, by using that largely deceptive device called language to wrangle meaning from the nonsensical.  There is already ample "evidence", in the form of internal inconsistency, that Christianity has no bearing other than from faith.  which is not to say that it is useless; not at all.

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sure Christianity will disintegrate; though some may remain clinged to it.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            yah and if you guys let your people convert to christianity without killin em you might see your beliefs not being clinged to

    5. Dave Mathews profile image60
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What if Jesus Christ himself walked up to you in a face to face encounter, introduced himself, offered proof by letting you see and touch his wounds, was able to verbally quote any and all biblical scripture to you and performed a miracle right before your eyes infront of witnesses? Would you then believe and accept Him as Jesus the Son of God or, would you still scoff?

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I would have to say, that I accept proof when it is right in front of me.

        And why do you assume that I scoff at anything.

        Seriously, Can we not pose questions for the sole purpose of seeing the responses. I happen to enjoy discussions and debates. We have no need to discuss anything if we both approach a conversation with the exact same thoughts. There is nothing to talk about about, we both know the same things and say the same things. So why talk...We can just look at each other and give a quick nod and our interaction is completed. Points made.

    6. The Blagsmith profile image76
      The Blagsmithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Did Christ not take a different form and at first was not recognised by his disciple? So if they did find his body would they not just be his mortal remains not Christ the Son of God? - as he ascended to heaven - it would not be so easy in the wrappings of a mortal body.

      1. Jean Bakula profile image97
        Jean Bakulaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hello Blagsmith,
        This is the way I understand the story. Christ did come back in a different form, and that's why Thomas (doubting Thomas) did not recognize his old mentor. In the book of Acts, it says that Jesus remained on earth for forty something days after his resurrection. I read the Bible a few years ago, to make up my mind about it.  I believe Jesus really existed, but that his message was both misunderstood, and most likely misreported due to all the different languages the NT has been interpreted into and from. He does refer to himself in different ways, and it is really open to interpretation when you read and study yourself. And I believe that's what one should do, not take the word of a priest or minister, but examine the religion for yourself. I don't think he expected a whole cult or religion to come about because of him. He had special gifts, and openly tells his disciples "You will do things even greater than these." This suggests that he had information sources and thought in the future this information would be more available to regular people. Plus where was Jesus from the time Mary and Joseph lost him only to find him at the temple (at around age 9) and at the age of his crucifixion at around age 33? Some suggest he was studying in mystery schools in India, learning esoteric teachings. It is all very interesting.

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Some of the links are no longer up there!

            Took this from one though:


            There is nothing in the authentic sayings and teachings of Jesus to support or justify any of this. According to him he was a prophet raised among Israel particularly for the guidance of the "lost sheep of the House of Israel." (Matthew 15: 24). Were it true that he was the very God himself and that the sole purpose of his sojourn upon earth was to expiate mankind's sins upon the cross, he would not have prayed in agony and asked his disciples to pray in the Garden of Gethsemane that if possible, the cup (of death upon the Cross) may be turned away (Matthew 26 : 39). Jesus believed that God heard his prayers. He must have believed that this prayer would also be heard. If the whole purpose of his advent was to atone for the sins of mankind through his death upon the cross why this agonized prayer to be spared such a death? This prayer is a complete refutation of the whole alleged purpose of his advent.

            But the writer missed part of the context (not surprisingly) when he forgot to mention the whole prayer Christ made in Gethsemane:

            Matthew 26:39

            And going a little farther, He threw Himself upon the ground on His face and prayed saying, My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will [not what I desire], but as You will and desire.

            Here is TRUE submission to God, when we do His will and not our own, and it is a requirement for any believer to do this.

            This is why it is irrelevant whether someone finds a body and claims it is Christ, for we worship Christ in Spirit and in Truth, not the man, but the God.

            1. GinaCPocan profile image59
              GinaCPocanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              When Christ Resurrected he became ONE with God. Jesus yet a separate entity, and yet one with God. As we Christians are separate but will become One body.
              Finding a body and claiming it Christ may crush the faiths of weak believers, but the true believers won't be moved.

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Amen

            2. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              the cup that jesus prayed to be taken away was not the cup of death. Death is not a cup. Wrath is a cup as we can read about in revelation. Jesus was not asking that he would not have to die - Jesus fully understood and supported the fact that he had to die - but to have God remove his spirit from him was something jesus did not want. Jesus had the Spirit from birth and continually all through his life and this one time He would experience separation.
              What the jewish perspective and bible perspective teach is that the soul is the life of the body - all those things chemical and biological that make the body animate - Christ poured out his life (soul) on the cross and he knew this was the epitome of his existence. God dwelt fully in Him in what we term the Holy Spirit and God removed His Spirit from Christ. Notice that nowhere until the last 3 hrs on the cross does Jesus refer to God as God but as the father. My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me, not father why hast, but God... a repercussion of sin is separation from God. The children of Israel were separated from God because of their sins as was Adam, and this pattern, in keeping with the ritual of the sacrifice, was that Christ had to bear the sins of the humanity, therefore, God removed himself, hovered over, remained in the area of - however you want to phrase it - while the sins of the world were literally borne by Jesus. IF Jesus were to have prayed that the death - sacrifice - not occur would have been against the fathers will and the purpose for His life. In essence Jesus would be praying away his entire reason for being.

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks BRO, I will study that, good reply.

              2. Captain Redbeard profile image59
                Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                WOW, That was a great teaching. It clears up alot of questions I have had and makes sense. Thank you for your willingness to study, learn and teach Brotheryochanan

                1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                  WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The cup is the whole ordeal, including the wrath meant for sinners that he drank.

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    if it were the whole ordeal, it would mean that christ was praying against his purpose and he just would not do that.
                    The cup of wrath is a cup that could have been avoided. Jesus would still have died on the cross which would account for atonement. The cup of Jesus body, which would  experience death would have meant no death, no atonement, so that is not an option.
                    The only cup able to be wanted to be avoided is the cup of the wrath of God.

    7. Abhishek Nath profile image61
      Abhishek Nathposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Do you really think that this kinda thing can occur....I don't think so. Well I welcome your view.
      What I think is if Jesus's dead body is found then surely the Bible's way of death and resurrection would remain nothing else but a lie which we all Christians had been following for centuries. The faiths of the people towards God and Jesus would surely change and Christianity would be called a "False religion" which was being followed by many..
      But yes I don't think that this kind of situation will ever come....

      Thank you..

    8. Knight6 profile image59
      Knight6posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      there is a theory that his boby is buried in a double grave in india jesus and one of their religious leaders of old but to date not allowed to dig to prove scans of the grave show two bodies but only one name mentioned on tomb.....................

    9. 2besure profile image82
      2besureposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And how again would you prove it's the body of Jesus?  Would you compare his dna to God's???

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        We have ID'd mummies. We could probably not be able to definitely prove anything beyond a complete shadow of doubt. But it the markings on the "coffin" and any other "writings" pointed to his identity then it would be a highly probable identification. Same with the texts if something of that nature was found.
        If texts were found that were supposed written by Jesus himself and it confirmed all current Christian beliefs, no-one would even question the findings or doubt that he wrote them. But, if they didn't agree, then there would be all kinds of debates.

        1. seigfried23 profile image80
          seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Interesting post.  However, I think that this is wrong, and 2besure above is quite right.  We may have ID'd mummies, but mummies have never claimed divinity, nor any other dubious supernatural accoutrements.  The whole "point" of Jesus is his alleged divinity and godhood.  Finding a body could never be enough even in principle; you'd have to find some way in which this body had properties that no other mortal body had; even then, it might be Apollo.  Or Hercules.  Or Gilgamesh.  Even in the latter case, the best you could say was that it's the body of something not mortal.  And "no one would question [this or that]" as stated above is a poor argument from popularity, which can have about as much success as the belief that the world was flat.

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The point behind Jesus being of a Divine nature, would be called into question if indeed a body was found. Common thought is that he was resurrected due to the fact that he was in fact divine.

          2. Jean Bakula profile image97
            Jean Bakulaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            seigfried23 is talking about myths here though. So why do so many Christians believe what I think are essentially myths? I don't doubt that Jesus lived at some point, but do think, especially in Genesis, much of it is myth. You have to take gigantic leaps of faith to believe all the stuff that happens there. And if you believe God created the world, science has proven that Earth is millions of years older than the Bible suggests that it is.

            1. seigfried23 profile image80
              seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Another problem with "Jesus being of a Divine nature" is that you would have to decide what properties this would have on a body, if any.  Jesus is just a name, and there is no conceivable way you could ever prove any body that you ever found was his. For example, if you found a body that was lifeless and yet had not decayed, that would be very intriguing.  But that wouldn't make it Jesus'.  Remember that "we" think of Jesus as the true God, just as the Greeks though of Zeus as the true leader of the Gods millenia before there was ever any mention of Jesus.  Although Double Scorpion most certainly has a right to ask it, the question itself is brimming with too many fallacies of assumption; things that are actually very much in question, which are assumed true in order to ask that particular question.

              1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The interesting thing about asking this type of question, is that many are not actually answering the question. Instead they are arguing how it can be proved or "just isn't possible" because Jesus is God.

                The question is actually quite simple. Would finding the body of Jesus change your beliefs?
                Finding a body, would imply he wasn't divine but was just another prophet as some claim.
                And if writings were found that were from his hand and they differed from the bible, then that would imply that the modern Christian is not really following the teachings of Jesus.

                I was not attempting to validate Jesus' divinity or lack thereof, or if he did or did not exist, or if he was risen or not risen. I was asking a "what if" scenario based on the "fact" that his body and writing were found, and how would that affect current christian beliefs.

                1. seigfried23 profile image80
                  seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  While I fully maintain your right to ask this question precisely as stated, the fact remains too that it is a question rife with the philosophical delineation of fallacy of assumption.  You might not have intended to do this; but, it remains so nonetheless.  In order to even exist, the question requires the veracity of several axioms which are not at all known to be  true (much like if a judge asks a man in court whether or not he beats his wife.  The man answers "no" and so he is regarded as a good man.  Later, it is found that the only reason he doesn't beat his wife is because he is not married to the girl he actually beat.  She was his girlfriend.  The original question the judge asked made a fallacy of assumption).  Now, while the fallacious nature of your question doesn't invalidate it, and anyone may answer as they see fit, it doesn't seem unreasonable that others would raise serious objections as to the statement, itself, before being able to answer it; particularly given the fact that the nature/strength of different Christians' beliefs vary. 

                  It should be obvious that those who have "true belief" would never waver at the question because it is predicated on "proof", which is never a matter of faith.  If you "believe", then all that would just be scientists' way of trying to sway your belief system.  We know this because there have been countless occurrences which directly put the veracity of biblical claims in serious doubt, just like your example would.  They either ignore them, don't understand them, or distrust them.  In my teachings to physics students, I find that the most popular by far is ignorance of them; distrust is second.  To ask the question stated automatically "validates" the divinity of Jesus; because if he's not divine, then the entire tenet of Christianity is probably baseless.

                  Ultimately, despite the inherent problems with the question, it has fostered what appears to be months of debate, and so seems to be a resounding success.

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It seems you are not comprehending the context of the question. It is "scenario based" or "what if". This type of question cannot be a fallacy as it is not stating anything as actual facts. It is simply asking a person's opinion based from a hypothetical situation. There is no right or wrong answers.

                    I am thinking that if someone is wishing to justify the validity of a "what if" scenario, it could mean they are not secure in their beliefs and hold an immense fear of their faith being proven wrong and in turn completely destroying their concept of what is or isn't "truth".

                    It is like asking the question "What would you do if you won a multi-million dollar lottery?" Everyone knows the actual odds of winning, but "what if".

      2. Knight6 profile image59
        Knight6posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        no not gods his own blood

    10. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm 99.99999% certain it cannot happen, and even if it could, how can you prove a body once belonged to a man who had no confirmed sibling or descandants, and whose one known biological relative also left behind no remains? And then there's the problem of sorting out the extremely common names. Some guy named Josh, whose parents are Mary and Joe, is more than likely to not be the Josh son of Mary and Joe we're talking about.

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Then how are we to know he even actually existed then? If we cannot confirm anything about him, then how are we to believe in him?

        1. Valerie F profile image60
          Valerie Fposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There is more than just physical evidence- but a claim to have found the corpse of a certain person also requires proof. DNA evidence proves nothing if the person left behind no biological relatives with which we can compare genes.

        2. Lapse profile image61
          Lapseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          DS... How are we to know he even actually existed???  2besure TOLD you how, I think twice.  Real Christians have faith.  Unlike you and me they "simply believe it."  Its faith.  You are quite obviously at least an Agnostic and maybe an Atheist, but DEFINITELY someone who doesn't believe in a Christian God.  Sorry THE God, not a God.  :-)

          faith
             [feyth]
          noun
          1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
          2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
          3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
          4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
          5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

          If all the info in the Bible is correct, like almost everyone else has said, we CAN'T find Jesus' body, BUT for ME to answer your original question however, if someone ACTUALLY found Jesus' body with his works?  Some how if we all "just KNEW" it was really Him (since your hypothetical didn't say how "we" knew I just have to accept that we know its real) then IF one of more people didn't cover it up some people like myself would change to incorporate the new information.  Everyone else would have to speak for themselves since I'd rather not write 5 paragraphs speculating what others would do.

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The questions I ask, leads people to think certain things about me. Truth is, I don't advertize my beliefs. I just ask questions. It is easy to ask the questions that align perfectly with beliefs. It is asking the questions that really don't have a set answer across the board that interest me. I like to study people and their responses to certain stimulus. And alot of the people I have talked with, both online and in real life, never fail to respond as expected.

            1. Lapse profile image61
              Lapseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So you like to poke people with sticks sometimes even when you know what the response will be?  Seems boring. 

              Also seems unfair to coerce the beliefs out of others when you're unwilling to share yourself.  Makes the discussion rather one sided don't you think? IMHO you won't ever truly maximize learning/growth without a completely two sided conversation.

              1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                One doesn't have to respond to the questions posed. But yet many many do. And for a variety of reasons. I have absolutely no reason to justify myself, my actions or my beliefs to anyone. If someone one truly wished to know and learn my beliefs then I would answer them. But the truth is, most only wish to claim superiority of their beliefs over mine.

                I don't poke, that is invading personal space of a person. I ask questions and follow up questions for clarifications. Choosing to answer those questions is on the other person. And of course is a part of the response as well. And as with any type of study or research, even when you know the result, you have to test it as well for inclusion into the equation.

                And everything has three sides not two..."your side", "my side" and the Truth. I already know "my side" and by someone answering questions I get a portion of the "your side". The search however is for the truth.

                1. Lapse profile image61
                  Lapseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  One doesn't have to respond?  We're all members of the forum here of course people will respond, especially to such a provocative hypothetical question.  I'm sure you know that.

                  And I never said anything about justifying anything here.   The forum is for discussion.  Nothing more.  Having an open discussion is generally the best way to explore/develop/learn about ideas that are others AND yours.  Comparing and contrasting, nothing more.  You seem self-confident enough really that someone proclaiming their views to be better probably wouldn't bother you.  Seems to me someone who lacked confidence in their beliefs wouldn't have posted a question like you did.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised.

                  Come on now, "poke" - although it might have had a slightly negative connotation - was simply a metaphor for asking questions.  Certainly in this context.  I think it was a good one however if your intent was to get some people a little excited, which is okay because in my opinion you didn't cross any lines.  I like what you said though about sometimes you knowing the result, I retract the boring bit.

                  I just wonder if you adding "your side" might help the discussion.  Maybe not.  I believe I know it either way.  Its all good.

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Have you ever heard of the "Socratic method"?

        3. seigfried23 profile image80
          seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Precisely!  That's why it's called "belief".  If something is true, then it doesn't require you to "believe in it"; indeed, proof is rather antithetical to faith.  Which is why, despite that this post concerns Jesus, he has no more objective validity than Ra or Anubis.

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Which is the whole point behind the question of IF the body of Jesus was found. There would be proof, belief would no longer be required.

    11. 2besure profile image82
      2besureposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      For true Christian believers, it wouldn't matter.  Faith is not based on proof, or it wouldn't be called faith.  "It is the evidence of things not seen!"

      1. seigfried23 profile image80
        seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Respectfully; there is an inherent inconsistency in that very statement (even though it's not your own): there is no "evidence" of things not seen (and by "seen", it is generally understood to encompass more than just the visual sense).  History suggests that this is the case, given the countless gods that people worshiped before Jesus; indeed, the mythologies that pre-date Christianity, itself, and from which much or even most of Christianity was copied.  "Evidence of things not seen" are really just the stories that human beings make up about natural phenomena when they don't understand why the storm wiped away their neighbors, or why the Sun "sets".

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The mystery religions do not predate christianity. Christianity being a first century 1-100 event and the myths 2nd century and older 100-200.
          Adonis is more than 100 yrs after Jesus. Attis is also long after jesus. Mithraism is latter 2nd century in rome and not connected to the persian mithra. The earliest mithraic inscription is on a statue dating 101AD in roman empire. The mithraea (temples) are dated early second century.

               Try as anyone might there is no evidence to support the claim that christianity copied any part of itself from any other religion. The virgin births are untrue in the myths and far from virginal. Resurrections are not resurrections at all but tied in with the cycles of vegetation. Although by a stretch of imagination they can be loosely termed with christianities VB and RES they are not akin at all. Yes religions had common meals but this was not uncommon as all group functions and meetings also in the secular fields had meals too.

    12. Fullerman5000 profile image81
      Fullerman5000posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The only way you'll find His body is when He is walking this earth again and is ready to bring His faithful children to the Kingdon of Heaven.

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        While leaving behind the great unwashed ignorant scientists and thinkers to rot in hell.

        It must be so wonderful being you!

        Yes I can see you and your christian friends here are so much smarter and more worthy than the rest of us! lol

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          got yer knickers in a bunch huh

          it must be so something being you, but i can't imagine what.

          Your like a damn with a hole in it and the water keeps leakin out.
          Couldn't refrain huh. just wasn't able.
          terrible tables side manners you have.
          This is why people with your kind of attitude cause so much war

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, it's people who don't even know the difference between a body of water and a curse that are the problem with war. lol

    13. 70
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It has already happened. Jesus died in India and is buried in a  grave at Mohallah Khanyar, Srinagar, India.

      I will definitely affect the beliefs of the Christianity for a positive change.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Of course. Who wouldn't take the word of an illiterate that claimed he heard it from an angel? That's the average criteria used to have information included in a history book. smile

      2. 70
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Link above.

          "The Urantia Book claims to be a revelation of the life of Jesus. It offers a detailed account of his childhood, adolescence and early adulthood and provides a comprehensive narrative of later events as recorded in the Gospels. According to the Urantia Book, Jesus never visited India; instead, beginning in his 28th year (AD 22, according to the Urantia book) he travelled with a wealthy merchant from India and the merchant's son. Jesus was invited, on a number of occasions, to visit India by the wealthy Indian merchant, but Jesus declined, citing responsibilities relating to his family in Palestine."

          smile

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Of course Jesus never went to India.
            Jesus was sent to the Jews. Jesus mission was jewish based. Gods original people, to repent them not the people of India.

            He said what he was gonna do, preach to the jews, be crucified, resurrect and then ascend.

            1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
              WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I heard he was a back-up singer for Elvis.

            2. 70
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Of course Jesus went to India.Ten of the 12 tribes in exile went and lived in India and the neighboring countries, so Jesus had to go to them to accumplish his mission and he had hinted very clearly that he would visit them like Jonah visited his people when he was out of the belly of the fish.

              It is a racial thing to say that only Jews were the original people of the Creator God; all people are the original people of Him.

              History tells us that Jesus did go to India and died there at the age of 120 years; if NT Bible failed to mention it; it showes that it was written by ignorant people.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No, it does not, in fact, you have provided links that said he did not go to India.

                1. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hindu scriptures mention of Jesus going to India:

                  From SRI BHAVISHYA PURANA. Pratisarga parva, Chaturyuga Khanda Dvitiyadhyayah, 19th Chapter. (text 20 onwards).
                  Ruling over the Aryans was a king called Salivahana, the grandson of Vikramaditya, who occupied the throne of his father. He defeated the Sakas who were very difficult to subdue, the Cinas, the people from Tittiri and Bahikaus who could assume any form at will. He also defeated the people from Rome and the descendants of Khuru, who were deceitful and wicked. He punished them severely and took their wealth. Salivahana thus established the boundaries dividing the separate countries of the Mlecchas and the Aryans. In this way Sindusthan came to to be known as the greatest country. That personality appointed the abode of the Mlecchas beyond the Sindhu river and to the west.

                  ekadaa tu shakadhisho
                  himatungari samaayayau
                  hunadeshasya madhye vai
                  giristhan purusam shubhano
                  dadarsha balaram raajaa

                  Once upon a time the subduer of the Sakas went towards Himatunga and in the middle of the Huna country (Hunadesh - the area near Manasa Sarovara or Kailash mountain in Western Tibet), the powerful king saw an auspicious man who was living on a mountain. The man's complexion was golden and his clothes were white. (Bhavishya Purana 19:22.)

                  ko bharam iti tam praaha
                  su hovacha mudanvitah
                  iishaa purtagm maam viddhi
                  kumaarigarbha sambhavam

                  "The king asked, 'Who are you sir?' 'You should know that I am Isha Putra, the Son of God'. he replied blissfully, and 'am born of a virgin.' "(Bhavishya Purana 19:23.)
                   
                  mleccha dharmasya vaktaram
                  satyavata paraayanam
                  iti srutva nrpa praaha
                  dharmah ko bhavato matah
                  " 'I am the expounder of the religion of the Mlecchas and I strictly adhere to the Absolute Truth.' Hearing this the king enquired, 'What are religious principles according to you opinion?' "(Bhavishya Purana 19:24.)
                  shruto vaaca maharaja
                  prapte satyasya amkshaye
                  nirmaaryaade mlechadesh
                  mahiso 'ham samaagatah

                  "Hearing this questions of Salivahara, Isha putra said, 'O king, when the destruction of the truth occurred, I, Masiha the prophet, came to this country of degraded people where there are no rules and regulations. Finding that fearful irreligious condition of the barbarians spreading from Mleccha-Desha, I have taken to prophethood'." (Bhavishya Purana 19:25-26.)

                  mlecchasa sthaapito dharmo
                  mayaa tacchrnu bhuupate
                  maanasam nirmalam krtva
                  malam dehe subhaasbham
                  naiganam apamasthaya
                  japeta nirmalam param
                  nyayena satyavacasaa
                  manasyai kena manavah
                  dhyayena pujayedisham
                  suurya-mandala-samsthitam
                  acaloyam prabhuh sakshat-
                  athaa suuryacalah sada

                  "Please hear Oh king which religious principles I have established among the mlecchas. The living entity is subject to good and bad contaminations. The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct and performance of japa. By chanting the holy names one attains the highest purity. Just as the immovable sun attracts, from all directions, the elements of all living beings, the Lord of the solar region, who is fixed and all-attractive, attracts the hearts of all living creatures. Thus by following rules, speaking truthful words, by mental harmony and by meditation, Oh descendant of Manu, one should worship that immovable Lord'." (Bhavishya Purana 19:27-30.)

                  isha muurtirt-dradi praptaa
                  nityashuddha sivamkari
                  ishamasihah iti ca
                  mama nama pratishthitam

                  "Having placed the eternally pure and auspicious form of the Supreme Lord in my heart, O protector of the earth planet, I preached these principles through the Mlecchas' own faith and thus my name became 'isha-masiha' (Jesus the Messiah)." (Bhavishya Purana 19:31.)

                  http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Mormon scriptures mention Jesus went to America. Funny guy. lol

                  2. brotheryochanan profile image60
                    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    'I am the expounder of the religion of the Mlecchas"

                    But jesus is not this expounder. He came to the jews.

                    We get something marginally close to a "carpenter" job in a story related by the Encyclopedia. As it goes, one day Salivahana was walking on a riverbank and saw a beached fish that was laughing at him. He asked some clever people what was up with that, and no one knew until finally one hermit told him the fish had been someone in a former life whom Salivahana in one of his own former lives, as a wood-carrier, had done a favor to. So the fish was laughing because he was happy to see Salivahana doing so well.         "ency of Indian culture, 1278"

                    Salivahana is dated around 676AD.

                    Finally Salivahana is indeed, according to Wilford, "virgin born" but not virgin-conceived: his mother was impregnated by a snake gliding over her while she was asleep -- in her cradle, at 1 1/2 years of age! (The author also notes a story copycatters may parallel to King Herod chasing after Jesus: a local king went after Salivahana, with a large army, to destroy Salivahana and any followers he had; the child, however, beat the king back and killed him, though he was a tender 5 years of age at the time!) But again, Wilford saw none of this pre-dating the Christian era.

                    These stories are not to be found in the Puranas

                    This is sounding very much like the Greek mythical god stories. There is no trace of jesus in any of this or what you posted. There is no former life, no re-incarnation - how is this possible for one people and not another? His appearance is different, his style is very different, there is no mention of a crucifixion, atonement for sin. It is totally without connection to the Jewish religion. There is no way the person can be connected to christ - a risen savior who ascended as he promised.

                    I have no doubt that christianity went to India or that christianity is in India, but that jesus did not take it there i have no doubt.

              2. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I didn't know you could find LSD anymore.

    14. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think you can be sure that if the body of Christ could have been found, the Israelis would have found it years ago, they are very good at that sort of thing.

      But for me, if the claim was made, it could not interfere with the relationship I have with Him, but it would destroy Churchianity for sure, Christianity would carry on as it has since he first revealed himself to mankind.

      You either are known by Him or you are not.

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It would be interesting to see what the fallout would be of such a discovery. I,for one, would be very interested in documenting and studying the resulting issues something like this would bring about.

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          In many ways it would sort out the 'wheat from the chaff' i.e. all the people who had a relationship with Churchianity would need to re evaluate their position, whereas those who had a relationship with Christ would not be shaken.

          Too many Christians have never made that leap of faith and started the relationship with Christ, for most the cost is too heavy, whereas feeling good in a church once or twice a week is low cost entertainment with a feel good factor.

          No real demands except membership, tithes and agreement with the doctrines they support.

    15. TJenkins602 profile image76
      TJenkins602posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It would have to be passed as a fraud. If Jesus's body was found today, then it would likely cause a lot of problems in the Christian faith since Jesus is supposed to have risen.

    16. matrixelect profile image61
      matrixelectposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I bet some Fraud is already trying to figure a way to produce a body supposedly belonging to Christ. I suggest you join the Yetti, Bigfoot I have a body crowd!
      It's not going to happen, so I cant deal in delusions and you can not dictate a reply in an forum.
      If it did happen it probably would strengthen my belief

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        A simple "what if" question, and we see such hostility.

        I have never said it has, would or ever would happen. I was just curious to the "what if" with regards to faith.

        You speak of delusion in the possibility of finding a historical person, yet many would argue that your beliefs are nothing more than a delusion.

        I have not dictated a reply. I have posed a question and those who wish, are free to answer or ignore as they see fit. As you might notice, I said that "Thoughts and Opinions" were welcome. Not required.

        I am curious to your last statement though...How would something that is not in line with your current beliefs and actually would say your current beliefs were in error, strenthen your current beliefs? I would think it would change them.

    17. Dave Mathews profile image60
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You wish that something like that would happen. It cannot. The world is full of "What ifs" but the facts still remain. He was killed. He was laid in a tomb, a tomb sealed and guarded by soldiers and three days later when the tomb was opened he was gone. What was there some back door to the tomb no one knew about or could see? I think not. You have to face it facts are facts.

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And again, This is only a "what if" scenario.

        There is no actual proof that Jesus died and was buried as described in the bible either. As a matter of fact, the bible has different "facts" concerning the event surrounding the death and resurrection of Jesus. So we still don't have any "facts" that are facts. One has to take that what is written in the bible as truth based on faith. Faith is not fact.

        And just as you say that I "want" this to happen, in the same respect you "don't want" it to happen. Because if it did, it would completely shatter the beliefs of most, if not all, Christians.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The bible implicitely says that jesus was buried and rose again and Jesus after his resurrection said:
          John 20:17   Jesus saith unto her, cling to me not; for I am not yet ASCENDED to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ASCEND unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 

          Lets not forget about the sign of the prophet jonah
          or about the temple being torn down
          or psalm 22

          how about this:
          Acts 2:22   Ye men of Israel, hear these words; JESUS of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
            Acts 2:23   Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have CRUCIFIED and SLAIN:
            Acts 2:24   Whom God hath RAISED up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be held of it.
          Acts 2:32  THIS JESUS HAS GOD RAISED UP, WHEREOF WE ARE ALL WITNESSES. (Peters speech)

          The resurrection is a point that commits Christianity. Its one of the, if not THE most important aspects of Christianity.

          Faith, my friend, comes from facts.
          The bible increases my faith.
          The 'fact' that you do not call the bible 'fact' shows that you willfully ignore what scholars, theologians, historians, archaeologists and other noteworthy people, who after spending their whole lives scrutinizing, dissecting and confirming, choose to consider as a book of facts.

          john Crossan: Jesus a revolutionary biography, 1991; p145
          "That Jesus was crucified is as certain as anything historical can ever be", he is an extreme liberal.
          Skeptic, James Tabor says: "I think we need have no doubt that given Jesus execution by Roman crucifixion he was truly dead." Jesus dynasty p230.
          Gerd Ludemann and Bart Ehrman, atheist NT critic and agnostic -in that order, say: Jesus crucifixion is an indisputable fact.

          We have friends of the bible and enemies of the bible mentioned above. To have enemies attestation, corroborating stories is definitely noteworthy.

          Tacitus, a historian, says: "Jesus suffered the extreme penalty during he reign of Tiberius".
          Josephus reports, "Pilate condemned him to be crucified".
          Lucian of Samosata, a greek satirist mentions the crucifixion.
          Mara bar-Serapion, a pagan, confirms jesus was crucified. "What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished".
          The Jewish Talmud proclaims that jesus was hanged. (They used hanged instead of crucified because He that is hanged on a tree is cursed of God (Deuteronomy 21:23)
          and some other sources.
          That christians died for their belief, suffered and were tortured speaks volumes for the amount of belief they had and ya just don't get that kind of belief from not understanding.
          Jesus body will never be found
          But it will be seen again

    18. incomeguru profile image84
      incomeguruposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Who on earth will discover the body of Jesus? Let's just rule that out.

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Always nice to see those not willing to think or consider things from outside of the box. smile

    19. PARASMART profile image77
      PARASMARTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It would mean that Jesus did not ascend to heaven in the flesh as that stupid bible says!  The whole thing is a story.  And what about the bodies of lesser known bible figures like John the Baptist? The Virgin Mary? John the Apostle? Mark? Luke?  No man in real life ever defeated death.  And there was never a real man named Jesus in history. I know I researched it.

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Balderdash, I know, I've met Him. smile

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Balderdash! He never existed, and even in your story the guy has been dead for thousands of years.
          What do you mean you've met him? That is crazy talk!

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            meet   [meet]  Show IPA verb, met, meet·ing, noun
            verb (used with object)
            1. to come upon; come into the presence of; encounter.
            2. to become acquainted with; be introduced to.
            3. to join at an agreed or designated place or time.
            4. to be present at the arrival of.
            5. to come to or before (one's notice, or a means of noticing, as the eyes or ears).

            Whose crazy?

            OK, I'm still waiting for No 4 to happen, but it will, and then we will see who are the crazy ones! smile

            Now if you did not meet him during your three years in faith, it explains a lot!

            1. earnestshub profile image89
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Like I said, crazy talk.

              During my 3 years of faith my perception was just as bad as yours is now.

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You mean you did meet with Christ, but now wish to deny it?

                I can understand that, someone who spends so much time denying God must have a reason, and whatever your reason is, I am sorry you decided to put your faith in mankind rather than God, but perplexed about why you spend the one life you have denying someone you say does not exist.

                Why is that?

                When I was a secularist, I just ignored God completely, and the words of His believers, so why all the effort you put in to deny a God that you say does not exist?

                Nothing you will ever say will separate any believer from the love of God.

              2. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                3 yrs of faith and 30 yrs of study?

                you are a mystery religion yourself

                is this a contradiction?

              3. Joy56 profile image60
                Joy56posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                rest in peace Ernest, I hear this was your last posting.....

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And, that is what you go around day to day telling people? At work? On the street? At dinner parties? lol

    20. Bucks here profile image60
      Bucks hereposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah they been trying that for along time.........and soon they will find a body and say that it is Christ, not that it will be.........They did create all the other Religions and look how many follow imaginary beliefs already.... Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all the other isms........

      Imagine they havent noticed all the other empty graves, there was a resurrection in that time too..... and documented...rollrollrollroll

    21. LewSethics profile image60
      LewSethicsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The key word in this sentence is BODY, and not REMAINS.
      So the Hebrew Archaeological Society decides they have been looking at their map upside down and go over there and find a tomb with the stone still in front of it and they roll the stone away and inside they find a wholly intact body with a toe tag that says 'Jesus Christ'. The body would have to be glowing with a holy light or something in order to convince everyone, and anyone that touched the body would be healed of sickness and calmed in mind and spirit. 
      Jews would finally accept Jesus as the Messiah, the Ultimate Jew.
      Muslims would decry this Jesus as Satan and do what makes us love them so much.
      Most Christians would reject the evidence and  cite Pauline dogma about the pretender blah blah blah. 
      I believe that Jesus taught some great meditation technique that got lost in the groveling and worshipping, so if his writings would be found with him and made public (a big maybe there) and his meditations could cause us to heal ourselves, then all the drama caused by organized religions would be seen as the comedy of errors that they really are.
      (By the way, once Jews got their map properly oriented it was child's play to re-locate the arc of the covenant...)

    22. PARASMART profile image77
      PARASMARTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think all three would happen.  You seem like a very wise person.  Thanks for sharing.  -Brewster

    23. brandasaur profile image61
      brandasaurposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      First thing first. If His body will be found, It should be proven that it is His smile

      1. 70
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Certainly

      2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I did add the comment "And was proven to be true" in my OP. And your answer to the question posed would be?

    24. liftandsoar profile image81
      liftandsoarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If the body of Jesus were found integrity would demand that I reject the Christian faith and conclude that I have been misguided all my life.  Paul wrote that if Jesus is not risen our faith is in vain.  I Corinthians 15

    25. 0
      Virgil Newsomeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I have tried to come up with a good answer to this question but I cannot.  What I know is this.

      If the body of Jesus was still in the tomb after it was broadcast that He was risen, the San Hedrin would have removed it and displayed it publicly for all to see.  This would have quelled any beliefs that he had risen from the dead. 

      Since there was no body found, it must stand to reason that he was either raised from the dead, or He never existed in the first place.  If He never existed, then there is nothing to the stories written about Him.  If He did exist and was raised, then what he spoke had to be the truth.

  2. kschmutzler profile image83
    kschmutzlerposted 5 years ago

    If the body of Jesus was produced then everything that my beliefs are based on would disappear.   Christianity only makes sense because Christ defeated death and rose again.

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Would you consider a different religion? And would you have any regrets for your life that you would have wished you could have changed based on this "new information"?

      1. skye2day profile image85
        skye2dayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        FYI Christianity is not a religion rather a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Christians are the body of Christ. Jesus scoffed the religious  Pharisees. Religion is mans doctrine on the Bible and much of the time scripture is twisted or ignored or devised to meet own needs. One does not need to be in a religion to make eternal life (heaven)it is by believing in Jesus Christ who came for the sins of the world. John 3:16

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          FYI: The definition of religion

          re·li·gion     noun
          1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
          2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
          3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
          4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
          5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.


          I think that everyone would agree that Christianity would fall into this definition.

          1. Dave Mathews profile image60
            Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Double:  Religion is a noun you got that right but that is just about where it ends. Christianity is a set of beliefs but Our God has always been he is not a created superhuman agent. Yes there are moral codes governing the conduct of human affairs.
            Christianity is not a religion. It is a choice to believe that heaven and hell are real and that one can choose by their lifestyle and actions whether they can escape the suffering of hell and attain a peaceful existance without apin and suffering.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Not my definition. It is the dictionary definition. And the dictionary says that Christianity is:

              Chris·ti·an·i·ty   /ˌkrɪstʃiˈænɪti/  Show Spelled[kris-chee-an-i-tee]  Show IPA
              noun, plural -ties.
              1.the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches.
              2.Christian beliefs or practices; Christianquality or character: Christianity mixed with paganelements; the Christianity of Augustine's thought.
              3.a particular Christian religious system: She followed fundamentalist Christianity.
              4.the state of being a Christian.
              5.Christendom.


              Again the dictionary definition, not mine.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Christianity is a religion, by definition.



              No, that is one particular set of beliefs of the Christian religion.

      2. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No regrets, whatsoever. Why should I regret belonging to any religion that prompts me to take care of the sick, the poor, etc.,?

    2. 70
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Then body of Jesus has been found buried in a tomb in Srinagar, Kashmir, India.

      Christianity should therefore has to be corrected.

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        But just like the other magic man stories you have no proof at all of that claim do you?

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The proof is there; one could go and see

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            See what Paara?

            A body and the beliefs of a group of people is all I would see I think.

            How could anyone prove up a body as an individual without having any proof?
            Same problem for all these beliefs in religious figures.

            They just refuse to stand up in the face of any honest investigation of the "facts" that are offered to support them.

      2. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The body was not found just a tomb and the tomb is just supposed to the be the right one, but of course, it is not.
        The problem with Jesus in India is that the beatings and scourgings that jesus took, lack of blood etc. would have rendered him incapable of such a journey. To say that christ was an enigma on the cross would have to include that he was an enigma before pontius pilate and thats a bit much to swallow isn't it. If we suppose that jesus went to the cross then we have to suppose he was beaten and terribly so, so there would be much healing time, if jesus were not the son of God. Why didn't he heal himself, he could but then that would be an act of God wouldn't it and God whom we know is truth, would not have allowed a lie such as jesus going to india to exist. And then we have to ignore the Gospel accounts, acts, all of the New Testament as well.

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus could take the needed time to heal; when he was seen by the people; his injuries were not healed fully as yet.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The question is NOT:     what COULD God do?
                                Because all things are possible with God.
            The question is: what DID God do?

            The bible gives clear, sober, detailed reports of what DID happen,  of what God DID do, therefore we cannot ignore, deny or just imagine otherwise. We need to let the information form our conclusions not just form our own conclusions.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It would be difficult to convince people you are the giver of life or the redeemer or God personified if you needed time to heal.
              Jesus needed no time to heal is what the bible says.

      3. deblevey profile image59
        debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Paarsurrey, in the words of Mary Magdalene, who was at gethsemane on the first resurrection sunday, "Please, sir...show me where you have taken Him...

        25And there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleopas, and Mary the Magdalene;

        26Jesus, therefore, having seen [his] mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he was loving, he saith to his mother, `Woman, lo, thy son;'

        27afterward he saith to the disciple, `Lo, thy mother;' and from that hour the disciple took her to his own [home].

        28After this, Jesus knowing that all things now have been finished, that the Writing may be fulfilled, saith, `I thirst;'

        29a vessel, therefore, was placed full of vinegar, and they having filled a sponge with vinegar, and having put [it] around a hyssop stalk, did put [it] to his mouth;

        30when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, `It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.

        31The Jews, therefore, that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath, since it was the preparation, (for that sabbath day was a great one,) asked of Pilate that their legs may be broken, and they taken away.

        32The soldiers, therefore, came, and of the first indeed they did break the legs, and of the other who was crucified with him,

        33and having come to Jesus, when they saw him already having been dead, they did not break his legs;

        34but one of the soldiers with a spear did pierce his side, and immediately there came forth blood and water;

        35and he who hath seen hath testified, and his testimony is true, and that one hath known that true things he speaketh, that ye also may believe.

        36For these things came to pass, that the Writing may be fulfilled, `A bone of him shall not be broken;'

        37and again another Writing saith, `They shall look to him whom they did pierce.'

        38And after these things did Joseph of Arimathea -- being a disciple of Jesus, but concealed, through the fear of the Jews -- ask of Pilate, that he may take away the body of Jesus, and Pilate gave leave; he came, therefore, and took away the body of Jesus,

        39and Nicodemus also came -- who came unto Jesus by night at the first -- bearing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, as it were, a hundred pounds.

        40They took, therefore, the body of Jesus, and bound it with linen clothes with the spices, according as it was the custom of the Jews to prepare for burial;

        41and there was in the place where he was crucified a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one was yet laid;

        42there, therefore, because of the preparation of the Jews, because the tomb was nigh, they laid Jesus.
        1And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,

        2she runneth, therefore, and cometh unto Simon Peter, and unto the other disciple whom Jesus was loving, and saith to them, `They took away the Lord out of the tomb, and we have not known where they laid him.'

        3Peter, therefore, went forth, and the other disciple, and they were coming to the tomb,

        4and the two were running together, and the other disciple did run forward more quickly than Peter, and came first to the tomb,

        5and having stooped down, seeth the linen clothes lying, yet, indeed, he entered not.

        6Simon Peter, therefore, cometh, following him, and he entered into the tomb, and beholdeth the linen clothes lying,

        7and the napkin that was upon his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but apart, having been folded up, in one place;

        8then, therefore, entered also the other disciple who came first unto the tomb, and he saw, and did believe;

        9for not yet did they know the Writing, that it behoveth him out of the dead to rise again.

        10The disciples therefore went away again unto their own friends,

        11and Mary was standing near the tomb, weeping without; as she was weeping, then, she stooped down to the tomb, and beholdeth two messengers in white, sitting,

        12one at the head, and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been laid.

        13And they say to her, `Woman, why dost thou weep?' she saith to them, `Because they took away my Lord, and I have not known where they laid him;'

        14and these things having said, she turned backward, and seeth Jesus standing, and she had not known that it is Jesus.

        15Jesus saith to her, `Woman, why dost thou weep? whom dost thou seek;' she, supposing that he is the gardener, saith to him, `Sir, if thou didst carry him away, tell me where thou didst lay him, and I will take him away;'

        16Jesus saith to her, `Mary!' having turned, she saith to him, `Rabbouni;' that is to say, `Teacher.'

        17Jesus saith to her, `Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'

        18Mary the Magdalene cometh, telling to the disciples that she hath seen the Lord, and [that] these things he said to her.

        19It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you;'

        20and this having said, he shewed them his hands and side; the disciples, therefore, rejoiced, having seen the Lord.

        21Jesus, therefore, said to them again, `Peace to you; according as the Father hath sent me, I also send you;'

        22and this having said, he breathed on [them], and saith to them, `Receive the Holy Spirit;

        23if of any ye may loose the sins, they are loosed to them; if of any ye may retain, they have been retained.'

        24And Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came;

        25the other disciples, therefore, said to him, `We have seen the Lord;' and he said to them, `If I may not see in his hands the mark of the nails, and may put my finger to the mark of the nails, and may put my hand to his side, I will not believe.'

        26And after eight days, again were his disciples within, and Thomas with them; Jesus cometh, the doors having been shut, and he stood in the midst, and said, `Peace to you!'

        27then he saith to Thomas, `Bring thy finger hither, and see my hands, and bring thy hand, and put [it] to my side, and become not unbelieving, but believing.'

        28And Thomas answered and said to him, `My Lord and my God;'

        29Jesus saith to him, `Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed; happy those not having seen, and having believed.'

        30Many indeed, therefore, other signs also did Jesus before his disciples, that are not written in this book;

        31and these have been written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye may have life in his name.'

    3. LewSethics profile image60
      LewSethicsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for your honest answer, KSchmutzler, it is very enlightening on this subject.

  3. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    The bidding on eBay would be furious!

    1. Greek One profile image81
      Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      i was JUST about to post that

    2. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And, the shipping, duty, insurance and brokerage fees would be through the roof.

    3. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The supposed coffin of James, Jesus's brother (a proven fake) was originally valued at something like 1.3 million dollars. So yes, "ebay" bidding would be furious. smile

    4. vox vocis profile image93
      vox vocisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What if the sky was red instead of blue?

      I agree with paradigmsearch smile

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The Sky isn't Red??? Of course it is. The Sky contains every color except blue, because it reflects blue that is why we see blue....big_smile

        Sorry..couldn't resist

        1. vox vocis profile image93
          vox vocisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          @DoubleScorpion: Wrong!

          As the sunlight goes through the air, some colors of light, like red and orange, pass straight through the air (the sky is filled with air). But, most of the blue light (the sky contains mostly blue) bounces off in all directions and gets scattered all around the sky (air). When you look up, you see blue light (not red, because red passes through the air, and blue stays scattered all over the air).

          So, if you want, let’s put it this way:

          Why is the sky black instead of brown? I mean, at night, the sky is black smile

          There’s an explanation for it, but it was supposed to be a rethorical question LOL

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I was joking actually in my post. But of course the "sky" itself isn't any color. We are simply seeing the blue spectrum of light that is being reflected from the air molecules that has absorb it.
            Perhaps I didn't express it correctly in my other post. But as I said, it was mostly a joke.

            1. vox vocis profile image93
              vox vocisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              @DoubleScorpion: smile Yes, I figured it was meant to be a  joke. Sorry if I sounded offended or angry. It's just that I couldn't resist either LOL You're thoughtful - that's nice smile

              1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No worries. It's all good.

            2. PARASMART profile image77
              PARASMARTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I like your humor!

          2. The Blagsmith profile image76
            The Blagsmithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If you live in England, you rarely see blue - just grey and sometimes darker.

            1. PARASMART profile image77
              PARASMARTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              That is so true.  I really feel for you.  For most people it is harder to keep a happy face with gloomy days around you.  Good Luck and God bless!

  4. daskittlez69 profile image78
    daskittlez69posted 5 years ago

    I completely disagree.  It was hundreds of years after Christ's death, that it was believed that his body rose from his grave.  I believe his spirit left his body and rose.  As do a lot of Christian's.  I also believe that Christ would not be happy with the way that humans created a religion around him.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And, where exactly did you get that notion? It's untrue. It was about 40-60 years. lol

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So the body of Jesus wouldn't change anything in your beliefs? What about the texts written by Jesus that were a major conflict with todays bible? Would you modify you beliefs to fit the "new" Jesus's teachings?

      1. daskittlez69 profile image78
        daskittlez69posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Not at all.  I am gonna get some grief for this.  But I look at Jesus a lot like I do the Buddha, when it comes to his teachings.  I think 80% or more of his teachings was about living a clean moral life.  Besides the Bible as we know it today wasn't fully devised until 325 AD with the council of Nicaea.  Until then you had a lot of sects of Christians that were completely different from the Christians that "won".  When I say won I am referring to the Catholics (The Universal Religion).  And if you have ever read about the Essenes then you would know that there was a big difference in the belief system of the early Christian church.  Therefore there is no telling what would be unearthed in the texts found with the bod of Christ or Yeshua.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I think the texts themselves would do more to shake foundations of beliefs, than the body of Jesus. It would be interesting to see the outcome of such a discovery.

  5. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    @Para lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

    @OP- It would certainly make things a lot more interesting that's for sure. However, I would have to say that it would probably be dismissed as a fraud. Too many Christians wouldn't abandon their beliefs and if they did, they wouldn't be Christians and probably go to another religion instead since Christianity(and all other sects couldn't be completely trusted). lol

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Some would dismiss it as fraud I am sure of that.

  6. 0
    Holmes221bposted 5 years ago

    If the bones of Jesus were found, how could they be identified?  Nothing exists which has the DNA of Jesus, so there would be no way of knowing to whom the bones belonged.  And I would have thought that his bones would have turned to dust a long time ago. 

    If writings were discovered which claimed to be written by Jesus, there would be no proof either way as to their authenticity.  As no one even knows who really wrote the gospels, although there is a lot of disagreement over them, then I would assume this would also be the case for any writings claiming Jesus as the author.

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      We have mummies from before Jesus's time and we have identified them. We have texts from Paul, that we know he wrote because he listed his name as the author and we have other texts that are claimed to be authored by Paul which we think is false because they are not written in his style of writing. Speaking of the texts, I am refering to Texts that say that Jesus is the author and can be dated to the time period of when he was supposed to be alive.

      1. PARASMART profile image77
        PARASMARTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Prove to me the text from Paul in the bible. I read the dead sea scrolls and found none.  What proof please?

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Dead Sea Scrolls is the OT. The Pauline letters copies that we have start with a greeting from Paul. Same as what is written in the NT. Certian books are attributed to Paul but don't follow his writing style.

          But the Letters to Galatia, Thessalonia, Corinth, Philippians, and Philomon are his. Colossians and the second book of Thessalonians might not be.

    2. PARASMART profile image77
      PARASMARTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are so right.  But I seriously do not believe he existed.  If it were true you would not have to believe it. Thanks for your honest reply.

  7. daskittlez69 profile image78
    daskittlez69posted 5 years ago

    lol thanks Cags

  8. R.S. Hutchinson profile image86
    R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago

    What if trees came to life and started yelling at everyone? I wonder about that from time to time.

    1. optimus grimlock profile image61
      optimus grimlockposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      thats a great point

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There are people who truly believe that trees are alive and talk to them.

    3. WD Curry 111 profile image61
      WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Trees are alive. They just don't yell.

    4. WD Curry 111 profile image61
      WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Trees are alive. They just don't yell.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image94
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How do you know this?  Do you speak elm?  smile

  9. melpor profile image89
    melporposted 5 years ago

    It would definitely change many aspects about christianity. For starters, Jesus would probably be put in the same category as modern day street ministers. The entire Bible would be discredited and many christians wwould probably be surprised with disbelief that the whole biblical account of Jesus is not true. The view of other major religions in the world would be affected in one way or another. The world would not be the same for many believers if Jesus's bones were discovered.

    Archaeologist discovered bones a few years ago in the Middle East region in a bone box with the name of Jesus writing on it but it was later dismissed as the bones of someone else with that name, since it was a name that was very commonly used in the region around that time.

  10. daskittlez69 profile image78
    daskittlez69posted 5 years ago

    "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this:  to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world" (James 1:27)

    Scripture clearly teaches that Christianity is a religion!  No one who truly wishes to be faithful to Scripture could fail to acknowledge that.  It doesn't mean that you do not have a personal relationship with Jesus.

    1. skye2day profile image85
      skye2dayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Where doe scripture teach that Christianity is a religion. Read Acts. This is where the word Christian evolved. It was a body of Believers in Jesus Christ the son of God. Jesus is alive and well and the Saviour of the World. It is a persona choice to believe in Jesus. Yes most religions I would say believe in Jesus and yes there are Christians in a certain religious denomination. You do not have to join a religion church.

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Sky,

        Say what you want....humankind came up with the definition of what a "religion" IS and YOU are not going to change it, to suit your own use. roll

      2. daskittlez69 profile image78
        daskittlez69posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I am sure everyone here appreciates your Evangelical preaching.  Christianity sets forth beliefs and practices based upon stories of a man they named Jesus, established through orthodox religion.  All denominations and variations of Christianity found their roots from
        within the Orthodox Church that was officially established in the early third century.  Orthodox Christianity gained its strength as a religion when Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity, and later formed the Council of Nicea in order to not only establish his chosen brand
        of Christianity as the State religion of Rome.  To take this further, Jesus did not create Christianity; Christianity created Jesus.  Even his name
        was created by the proponents of religion.  Men created their teachings and ascribed them to a man they coined as "Jesus," never allowing the true man's message to come forth.  The man's name was Yeshua, and this Jewish radical in fact spoke against religion, and hid his messages
        within parables; stories that contain spiritual truths.  Jesus didn't build a church building, take offerings, establish communion, write the Bible, or promote any other religious ideals that we can tell.  But men who came after Yeshua, created a religion purportedly based upon him that is now
        known as Christianity.

      3. Dave Mathews profile image60
        Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Way to go Skye2day, you tell em girl. I agree with you Christianity is not a religion. As Christians we/ I have chosen to believe in Jesus as the Son of God, to believe that He was crucified (proven by historic fact) to believe that he was resurrected by God. How did his guarded body in that tomb
        disappear mass hypnosis? He was witnessed by thousands walking the earth after his death was that also mass hypnosis? Get real.
        Skye2day, I'm with you on this 100%

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If you would, please enlighten me to the "historic facts" that Jesus was crucified.

          For all of these thousands who "witnessed" him walking around, why isn't there more writings of this miraculous event? It is only mentioned in a few places in the NT.

        2. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And where would you score your christianity from if not a religious tome.
          To say christianity is not a religion is ridiculous!

      4. PARASMART profile image77
        PARASMARTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Please learn to spell or get a check dictionary.  Thanks.  Your comments will make more sense.  This one does not.

    2. skye2day profile image85
      skye2dayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You did not mention the remaining verse found in James 1:27 You only used one half of the sentence. The remaining James 1:27 is, 'and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.'

      Religion has customs, worship practices and doctrine written by man to 'belong' to the church. I agree and one can belong to a religion and believe in Jesus Christ. One should be very guarded in the scripture being taught or not, left out. (False teaching)

      undeviled in the comcordence comes from the Greek which means pure, not blemished, not stained. The Word of God the Bible is written in order for a reason. To follow the pure unstained written word without blemish. Hope that helps you on the religion thing. God Bless You.

      1. daskittlez69 profile image78
        daskittlez69posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sky you can say what you want.  But Christianity is a religion.  The Bible, Torah, Koran, etc... were written by man.  They might have been "influenced" by God but they were written by man.  The word "religion" was created by man.  For us simpleton(humans) that are apparently different than you and your clan of worshipers, we are only able to understand a word through definitions.  And using a man-made definition, Christianity is a religion.

  11. 0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    It's a completely impossible scenario. There are no known relatives. No way to check dna to prove the body was Jesus. I suppose it isn't outside of the bounds of the possible that writings could be found.

    I think a body would change the faith, not negate it. Contradictory writings would be ignored by the church. The church already ignores whatever there is in the text that doesn't suit them. So, they wouldn't make a difference one way or the other.

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      We do ID mummies. How do we accomplish this? There is no living relatives to compare. We base our ID's from what is written on their coffins and supporting documentation if found. I am sure that if Jesus was as widely known and revered as the Bible claims, then his body would have been processed as one would expect of Royalty and identification markings would be present.

      I think you are pretty sharp at figuring things out. Think about what I am asking and see if you can figure out the points I am actually looking to discover.

      1. daskittlez69 profile image78
        daskittlez69posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus was not buried like Royalty.  He was the son of a carpenter.  Not too mention that the tomb that he was supposedly buried in was donated because they had to have him entered because of Jewish tradition at that time. Based on what we know of Roman practice and Jewish custom Jesus was more than likely buried in shame in a criminals' tomb.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So what does this say about Jesus then? His body was taken by Joseph of Aramethia (a believer and follower of Jesus and was of wealth), Why would he bury Jesus as a criminal?

          I am not saying you are right or wrong, I am simply asking follow-on questions based on your response.
          *(To prevent any confusion, that I might be baiting or I am a believer or non-believers or any other assumptions)

        2. Dave Mathews profile image60
          Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If you really and honestly knew what you were talking about and who you are talking with, you wouldn't make such ridiculous meaningless statements.

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well, I guess looking at it from a personal perspetive; I'd be more prone to believe.  First, because we would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was a real historical person. Secondly, because I would have words I knew came from his mind. Contradictions might cause the faithful to fall away, but there'd probably be a great influx of new faithful.

        And, I guess a body would be a great thing to discover. We can't imagine being able to raise the flesh from the grave, but we might feel that a spiritual resurrection was within our grasp.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Suppose that the way you currently live already follows the teachings of the texts.

          And they simply added a better guide to understanding spiritual enlightenment.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think I was already arrogantly laboring under the assumption that any documents found would prove that I had gleaned the correct information as far as how to live. I guess we all do.

            But, the real hope of a spiritual awakening, with guidelines from someone who'd successfully walked that road? I don't know. Depending on how real we considered the chance of success; I think we'd be willing to walk away from anything and everything to  attempt to achieve it. I think I would, and I'm not so different from any one else.

            But, if it was like him. Death of the flesh first, I don't know if that's a leap of faith I could take lightly. It might just prove to be a worldwide tragedy.

            Edit. I just realized. Either way it's a tragedy. I think governments would do anything in their power to stop a movement to find a connection, if that movement involved disrupting business as usual.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              smile

              I'll be back later. I have business to attend to.

            2. daskittlez69 profile image78
              daskittlez69posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              "governments would do anything in their power to stop a movement to find a connection, if that movement involved disrupting business as usual."  I wholeheartedly agree with that, from government to religious entities they would try their best to stop it.

            3. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think that if something of this nature was actually found, it would stir up a world of debate, discussion, research, arguments, and completely upset the balance of things for a good while.

              It would be a very interesting find. And it would maybe even create a singular denomination of christains.

              1. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Hey DS, I guess it depends on who you know. lol I've a set of books that debunks many things, like spirituality(mysticism), religion(all of them) and answers many questions, like completely establishing Einstein's original thought on E=MC2, which was actually incomplete, the big bang full explained in lyman terms and how to bring about personal improvement to achieve a love for life and wealth. Not to mention, a simplistic system for operating a profit business. It also discusses morality and character of the individual, so one can always understand how to remain honest.

                However, I'm bound by an agreement, so as to not divulge where I received the information. It's part of my research and it consists of over 3000 pages(just one book) of information. The secondary book expands on some of the topics, which grants the ability to increase knowledge and wisdom, so one would not be likely to be cheated or scammed, and it's another 1500 pages. wink

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I would be interested reading those type of documents myself. Maybe one day I'll meet this person.

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Maybe you will. From what I'm to understanding, those who entrusted me with the information, once informed me that select few are chosen yearly to receive the opportunity to obtain the information. So, I guess it would be possible. wink

              2. 0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You are correct. And it would be fascinating to follow. I wonder how long it would take a religion born from such a discovery to fragment into sects of their own.

                Also, I wanted to thank you for that Yale link. It's been fascinating so far, but I have to tell you. You said the Old Testament course was dry, so I must be dry myself. I've found it to be incredibly entertaining. I have actually gained a heightened respect for the ancient Israelites as she has shown their cosmology juxtaposed against that of their neighbors.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You are welcome for the Yale link. I am very interested in these types of topics myself, so I enjoy all of it. But not everyone share my enthusiasm for these types of courses. Most people (in my experiences) are most interested in the NT, and find the OT more on the dry side. There are quite a few people that I know, that is interested in learning more about the bible, but can't take the courses for one reason or another. So, I did some looking and found that site and shared it with them. Those courses are pretty much the same across the board in the undergraduate studies(minus the tests and research papers of course LOL).

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, I always count no tests or research papers on the up side. But, I decided to simply read through both courses first (my computer keeps freezing up on the videos) and then follow up with a little more indepth study on the points I found of particular interest. It would have been nice to find the books they are using at the local library, but no can do. It doesn't matter, since these are introductory courses I haven't found myself at a loss without them. That may change as they get further in.

  12. Kristeen profile image76
    Kristeenposted 5 years ago

    There are no "what ifs". Jesus is risen and lives eternally. He is "the first born from the dead" - the first to rise from death never to die again.

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      This is not an opinion or thought regarding the OP and is not relevent to the topic at hand.

  13. daskittlez69 profile image78
    daskittlez69posted 5 years ago

    Neither am I, I am just stating what the Bible and other customs say as well as what was the custom of the time.  Criminals back then were buried in the Pit of Hinnom in either basically a trash dump for bodies(where criminals were buried) or in the Valley of Hinnom at the public tomb, which is where the poor were buried.  If you go with scripture they talk about rolling the huge stone in front of the doorway.  Tomb's didn't have round stones is one of the issues they had square stones.  Also, criminal burial was a subject on which there were major differences between the Romans and the Jews.  Romans left criminals hanging on the cross for days and a Roman never would have buried a criminal. According to Jewish law though, even criminals were to be given a prompt burial.  "If there shall be against someone a crime judged worthy of death, and he be put to death and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain all night on the tree; but you shall bury him the same day, for cursed of God is the one hanged." -Deut 21:22-23
    Unlike upstanding citizens, though, criminals in the eyes of Jewish law would not be allowed to be buried in a family tomb.  They would have been buried in the public tombs.  I am not saying that Jesus wasn't buried in Joseph's tomb, but anything that has to do with the New Testament has been changed or withdrawn to make Jesus look Godly.

  14. lone77star profile image91
    lone77starposted 5 years ago

    Double, it won't happen. And this is a ridiculous line of what-if's.

    We could come up with all kinds of ridiculous what-if's.

    What if we cracked open your noggin and found marshmallows inside? Or what if you opened your mouth and a jet airplane flew out of it? See what I mean? Nonsense!

    Now, if you came up with a more interesting challenge -- something else that might be a more realistic threat to ideology -- that could pose a more interesting point for discussion.

    Would all Christians fall in line to a new singular denomination? Not in a million years! Why? Ego -- the entitlement to consider self to be right and others to be wrong. (And did I do a little of that at the beginning of my post? Hmmm-m-m!)

    There would likely be millions of different interpretations of the new discovery, whatever it is.

    And no, E.G., it wouldn't start wars, but ego could, like the attitude you display so "religiously."

    I, for one, would not join any denomination, because my search is personal and unique. I think everyone's is. Cookie cutter religion helps to keep things organized. It helped to keep the message alive for two thousand years until we had greater freedom plus democracy. Now, we can ask the really important questions without being burnt at the stake. I'm afraid a return to one denomination might be a return to such persecution, unless the leader was someone without an ego.

    The true self that once visited this planet as Yehoshua of Nazareth would get my vote.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
      Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wow. Didn't think your ego could display itself more aggressively - apparently I was wrong - Your need to prove you have greater understanding and can do better majik than anyone else is going a long way to convincing me you know absolutely nothing.

      Do some more majik. lol lol

      You mean Yeishu ben Pandera, or Yeishu ha-Notzri? Or Crixus? lol

      Did you actually go to a school? Go on - do some majik for us. lol lol

    2. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have to say, for someone that didn't consider this an interesting point for discussion you had a lot to say. smile

    3. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You make a valid point. And you are probably right, it wouldn't create a singular set of beliefs. I agree that Ego leads the many.

      As we discover new things everyday, it would be nice to actually discover something like this.

      But the purpose behind this question, was to see certian responses. I had a theory of what I would see, and I was wanting to see if what I would receive would confirm my theory or not.

      This question leads to another, which is how would people (namely the Christian types) respond, if Jesus were to actually come back to human form and taught a message that differed from what is currently being followed by the majority who claim the title of Christian? What if he came back to rule and judge and it was based on something other than what is currently followed?

      The main thing is, just how set in personal beliefs are people, that if proof was to come that showed everything they based their beliefs on was in error, would they change/adjust, or would they claim fraud, or would they attempt to justify still using current text and beliefs. In short, how many claiming the title of Christain, would actually believe the return of Jesus, or attempt to debunk or justify it.

  15. 60
    Metamorphoseposted 5 years ago

    Regarding your question, What would happen to the Christian belief if the body of Jesus were found?, I would suggest that you might ask yourself what has been your response or the response of others to discover that a spouse has been unfaithful? That is, does that kind of a disillusioning experience transform oneself? What kind of emotional and intellectual re-positioning must takes place in order for such an event to be absorbed? What happens to the relationship? The question of how upsetting experiences or new realities change our perspectives and self-perceptions is an interesting question. On the other hand, another thing I would say, in response to your question, is that while such a "what if" can be applied to all us humans and all the deceptions (and self-deceptions) that make the navigating of our relationships such a conundrum, it cannot be applied to Jesus the Christ's life and death, which were not beliefs but facts upon which the Christian faith rests. Based on reality (secular historicity), Christians have no reason to think that the body of Christ will ever be seen again until he comes again to collect the faithful, though many doubters may believe otherwise. Nevertheless, I have come to understand that it is almost impossible to alter what someone chooses to believe, despite all facts to the contrary.

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this



      And the texts, written by Jesus's own hand? If these were found and were in contrast with the bible?

      And if Christians think the body of Jesus can never be found, and yet it was found, what does this do to their beliefs?

      And every atheist I know, will believe facts if found. And no I am not talking about the bible which is believed to be, but not proven as facts.

      1. 60
        Metamorphoseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I doubt that atheists will believe facts if found because atheism is as much a belief--a matter of faith--as belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ is a matter of faith. I say that because atheists have always had available to them plenty of facts (outside the Christian bible !) related to the life of Christ. For example, read the reports of Tacitus, a secular Roman historian and political analyst who lived circa 60 AD. Or, read the works of Josephus, who was a Jewish historian (and not a Christian sympathizer and never became a convert), living circa 40 AD. He was considered by the secular world to be a renown authority. Their writings validated not only the existence of Jesus the Christ but also substantiated a great deal of what was said about the ministry and life and Jesus. Google it! Check your local library! Refuting the hard, cold, unbiased facts about Jesus would be much like saying there was no Holocaust. For some misguided reasons, some folks deny that the Holocaust ever happened, but who can take such a position seriously, in light of all the evidence to the contrary? One may choose to believe or not believe in Christ's divinity--that's one thing. However, a thinking person cannot logically choose to believe or not believe in the facts surrounding the life and death (and events after the death) of Jesus.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The authors you reference, wrote about the beliefs of christians, not necessarily if those beliefs were factual or not.

  16. Vinaya Ghimire profile image85
    Vinaya Ghimireposted 5 years ago

    Your question is hypothetical so is my answer: We will forget about Jesus and look for another Christ.

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Why would we forget aout Jesus and look for another Christ? Why wouldn't we...say...modify our understanding of things to match the teachings of the documents that were found to be the actual teachings/thoughts of Jesus?

  17. Randy Godwin profile image94
    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago

    Some Muslims claim Jesus was removed from the cross before dying (his legs were not broken as was the Roman custom to assure certain death) by bribing the guard well. 

    He was placed in the tomb of his uncle- a very roomy and airy tomb for its day-and recovered a few days later.  He eventually returned to the places he had spent traveling with his uncle, Joseph of Aramathea, from the years between his assault on the temple money lenders and his reappearance not long before his crucifixion. 

    He supposedly married Mary Magdalene and sired several children.  He is said to lived out his life somewhere near to, or in the country of India.  Considered a prophet and nothing more.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
      Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No compulsion.

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      This would explain why no body has never been found, (if one holds that the biblical version isn't true). We would be looking in the wrong place.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image94
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It would also explain why the church was so desperate to paint Magdalene as a harlot when the Bible was edited by the powers-that-be.  The idea of the Messiah having a female companion who seemed to have a strong influence on him didn't quite fit into the scheme of things. 

        So her reputation was sullied to cover the real facts by those doing the editing.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The church did many things...A list to long to post here...and the ones interested probably already know and the ones who really need to learn it, would refuse to believe it.

        2. 0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Let me see if I follow your argument. You think Jesus existed, but the NT lied about the end. You use as your evidence the words of an illiterate that claims an angel told him some six hundred years later.

          I can't, for the life of me, understand why this hasn't been accepted as gospel by the christians. smile

          1. Randy Godwin profile image94
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Not saying I believe any of it.  Merely repeating what has been said by some Muslims on these forums.  smile

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Ok. But the church's need to paint the Magdalene as a harlot can easily be explained, without invoking angels or magic. smile

        3. Valerie F profile image60
          Valerie Fposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The Bibler never cast Mary of Magdala as a harlot. That resulted from people erroneously conflating several women in the Gospels. The sinner who washed Jesus' feet, the adulteress Jesus pardoned, and the woman who broke an alabaster jar full of spikenard are either not named in the Bible or other evidence is present indicating that they are not the same person and are not Mary of Magdala, which the Bible describes as a former demoniac, rather than a harlot, that Jesus had healed.

  18. Jo_Goldsmith11 profile image61
    Jo_Goldsmith11posted 5 years ago

    I would like to applaud you, for a very good question on *what if*. I guess, those who may suspect that some things aren't real will find themselves in the midst of things that are real. I know that I can't change the way I feel and believe when it comes to my faith or spirituality. One needs to walk their own paths and hopefully while doing so. They will encounter those who prove those things that are very reality based. Many will come and try to manipulate the unevitable outcome. The courage it takes to seek out truth and become englightened, is the key! Take care..

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Really? roll

      Why can you NOT change it?

      Everything we think, believe and feel can be changed by each individual person. To think it cannot, is to limit oneself.

      1. Jo_Goldsmith11 profile image61
        Jo_Goldsmith11posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        @ Cagsil..the reason why I can *not change it* is because I *don't want to*!
        If someone doesn't want to do something, or believe in a certain way..they will not do so. And yes, I admit. I am a limited sort of person! And I happen to *not want to change this either*. I am very happy and content with being kind to others and being respectful as much as my human form will allow. Take care..great question! Give me all you got! I love it! You are helping me to grow. Please don't change your need to ask great questions

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That doesn't mean it cannot be changed. It just means, YOU refuse to be who you are- adaptable human being.

  19. Jo_Goldsmith11 profile image61
    Jo_Goldsmith11posted 5 years ago

    @ Cagsil, Thank you for the compliment! smile I have been wondering how I have been doing with this. I have been praying to this Jesus fellow and I asked that I may be a beautiful spirit. Are you conveying to me, that this is correct? hugs! I really do enjoy your intelligent thoughts,comments! It helps me to think. I promise to dedicate my next hub to you! And if you would like, I would like to feature you in my Spotlight series! smile You are amazing! smile

    Please go to my profile to find out how! smile

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If you found my post to be a compliment, then I would say that you have bigger issues than I realized at the beginning of our conversation. roll
      Apparently, from your previous statement, you're still searching.
      A beautiful spirit? Try being human than something imaginary.
      I think my reply above shows it's not.
      Thinking is good. lol
      Not necessary. But, appreciate the thought.
      No thank you. It's not about me. It's about each person making an impact on others, while being honest on both accounts, self and others.

  20. joseph merlin profile image74
    joseph merlinposted 5 years ago

    I have don't read the whole thread just responding to the title. First Christ and Islam religion main conflict present in this. We followers of Islam have belief that GOD has take him up alive and they will be surely back to this world when there is Islam diminishing. Then there will be a war.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image94
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Religions always cause wars and have throughout history.  The old "my god is better than your god" stuff.  You know what I mean, don't you?  smile

      1. The Blagsmith profile image76
        The Blagsmithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Religion does not cause wars but the zealots who use it to their own ends. Just like politicians.

        Jesus did not incite war.

        1. Lapse profile image61
          Lapseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So...

          In the spirit of "Guns don't kill people.  People kill people..."

          Religions don't kill people.  People who pervert religions kill people?

          Sounds logical.

          So then religion is a tool?

  21. waynet profile image47
    waynetposted 5 years ago

    It will have to be buried!

  22. CLOTHEDSWIMMER profile image61
    CLOTHEDSWIMMERposted 5 years ago

    First this is not going to happen as Jesus died and rose again.when he died and rose again he did so for all our sins.
    We are all sinners and have come short fo Gods glory.
    And if this did happen christanty would come to an end as to be a christian is tobe christ like.
    Christiany is based on a personal relationship with Christ Jesus it is not based on the sayings off Christ Jesus
    un like other religans.
    Jesus Christ is lord and saviour of the world.

    Hope this answers your question.

  23. CLOTHEDSWIMMER profile image61
    CLOTHEDSWIMMERposted 5 years ago

    First this is not going to happen as Jesus died and rose again.when he died and rose again he did so for all our sins.
    We are all sinners and have come short fo Gods glory.
    And if this did happen christanty would come to an end as to be a christian is tobe christ like.
    Christiany is based on a personal relationship with Christ Jesus it is not based on the sayings off Christ Jesus
    un like other religans.
    Jesus Christ is lord and saviour of the world.

    Hope this answers your question.

  24. CLOTHEDSWIMMER profile image61
    CLOTHEDSWIMMERposted 5 years ago

    First this is not going to happen as Jesus died and rose again.when he died and rose again he did so for all our sins.
    We are all sinners and have come short fo Gods glory.
    And if this did happen christanty would come to an end as to be a christian is tobe christ like.
    Christiany is based on a personal relationship with Christ Jesus it is not based on the sayings off Christ Jesus
    un like other religans.
    Jesus Christ is lord and saviour of the world.

    Hope this answers your question.

  25. Disturbia profile image60
    Disturbiaposted 5 years ago

    How would you know it was really the body of Jesus anyway?

    1. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A fair question. smile Where is the DNA sample coming from to compare the body with?

      1. Captain Redbeard profile image59
        Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        HAHA! Maybe the shroud of Turin? LOL

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Good thinking! As the shroud has also been debunked, perhaps one of the other debunked shrouds could produce some DNA.

          In that case we would just have to match the DNA with a body then claim it was jesus that was in that particular shroud of Turin! lol

          1. Captain Redbeard profile image59
            Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have never understood when Christians look outside the scriptures for evidence of their faith. The whole concept of Christianity is to have faith without seeing, so said Christ to the diciples after he appeared to them in a locked room with "doubting" Thomas. Know what I mean? It's one thing to see the structure of the ark from satillite pictures and say oh well there's something but another to be activily searching for these artifacts that will no more prove the words in the bible then a preacher from a pulpit.

  26. Captain Redbeard profile image59
    Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago

    I would venture a guess that since the catholic church has spend the entirety or their exsistence covering up or trying to cover up truth, we revolve around the sun for example instead of all the universe revolving around us, the would go to the great lengths of covering this up as well. Tho the whole bases of this question questions the levitity of Christians faith everywhere I think that the fallout of such an event is self evident don't you? I mean just use your imagination and let it run wild for a moment. The entire western world was forged from the pages of the NT. America's system of laws was "borrow" from the ten commandments. Time it's self was split into two sections, B.C. and A.D., crusades, Islam and countless other things would be effected.

    I would rather his remains be unfound IF such a thing were possible.

  27. Midnight Oil profile image91
    Midnight Oilposted 5 years ago

    Lay his remains to rest next to those of Mary Magdalene under the Louvre Museum in Paris - problem solved ....

  28. 0
    Cromperposted 5 years ago

    History is about cross-referencing events, texts, and possibly carbon dating, amongst other methods.
    There can be no way that a body of 'Jesus' will ever be found because there is no evidence either in scripture or events that points to any particular point of reference as to where Jesus would be found.
    There are theories, but they are tainted by the WILL to believe that Jesus existed at all.

  29. brotheryochanan profile image60
    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

    It wont be

  30. cebutouristspot profile image73
    cebutouristspotposted 5 years ago

    It will be the world greatest cover-up waiting to happen

  31. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Oh you lucky clever true christians, we who are about to rot in hell for our ignorance salute those mightier than us. smile

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Why thank you Earnest, that's a very nice thing to say, do you actually believe in hell?

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Why would it matter what I believed your godliness?

        I am merely a cheap imitation of incredibly wretched Clark Bent, pretending to be superman while in reality the assistant spittoon cleaner pitifully crawling from spittoon to spittoon.

        I can just hope I can live long enough in this squalor to watch your goodliness ascent to the invisible heaven thingy in the sky and get all the rewards you are due because you are just so much better than me. I can see that now, thank you for the education and thanks for the rabbits. smile

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          But do you actually believe in hell?

          Was the question, and whilst I appreciate your wit and humour, I would better appreciate the answer to the question.

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The answer is sure I do, but not the biblical hell.

            Far too much of the world are living in hell while your god is busy seeing how much more deserving you are. smile

            1. aguasilver profile image87
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Earnest, nobody is more deserving than anybody else, we are all undeserving in this world, but there is the point that some people can be blessed by God because they CHOOSE to do His will and not their own.

              Anyhow, if you do not believe in the biblical hell, why mention it, it does not affect you, nor does it affect any believer, the fact that the bible talks about it should not bother you, you discount the bible as relevant to your life.

              We all die, and when we do, we will either; know the truth about heaven and hell, or know nothing more.

              Where is your problem with that?

              1. earnestshub profile image89
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "Christ may crush the faiths of weak believers, but the true believers won't be moved."
                This is what you said amen to and I challenged.

                It is obvious the writer considers they have the upper hand over all others because only they have the correct invisible friend, and only those "special" people who are :true believers" will survive.


                Megalomania needs a reply.

                1. aguasilver profile image87
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Luke 21 8:20

                  .....He said, Be on your guard and be careful that you are not led astray; for many will come in My name [appropriating to themselves the name Messiah which belongs to Me], saying, I am He! and, The time is at hand! Do not go out after them.

                  When you hear of wars and insurrections (disturbances, disorder, and confusion), do not become alarmed and panic-stricken and terrified; for all this must take place first, but the end will not [come] immediately.

                  Then He told them, Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

                  There will be mighty and violent earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences (plagues: malignant and contagious or infectious epidemic diseases which are deadly and devastating); and there will be sights of terror and great signs from heaven.

                  But previous to all this, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, turning you over to the synagogues and prisons, and you will be led away before kings and governors for My name's sake.

                  This will be a time (an opportunity) for you to bear testimony.

                  Resolve and settle it in your minds not to meditate and prepare beforehand how you are to make your defense and how you will answer.

                  For I [Myself] will give you a mouth and such utterance and wisdom that all of your foes combined will be unable to stand against or refute.

                  You will be delivered up and betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and [some] of you they will put to death.

                  You will be hated (despised) by everyone because [you bear] My name and for its sake.

                  But not a hair of your head shall perish. [I Sam. 14:45.]

                  By your steadfastness and patient endurance you shall win the true life of your souls.

                  But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know and understand that its desolation has come near.


                  Seems like a passage that recognises that there are those who will be found worthy to 'escape all these things' which indicates that have 'steadfastness and patient endurance' will gain a reward, which by default indicates that there will be some folk who do not.

                  So nobody is better than others, but some may show they did 'not become alarmed and panic-stricken and terrified; for all this must take place first'

                  It seems to me that the secularists posting in the forums spend more time trying to persuade themselves that they are right, than to persuade the believers that we are wrong.

                  Relationship with Christ gives believers an inner peace that 'surpasses all human understanding' and as such, whilst we may express the human responses of anger and annoyance when secularists attempt to disrupt matters, our peace returns quickly.

                  Token Christians, who have not been prepared to accept the words of Christ, and therefore stop their rebellion against God, by doing His will rather than their own, will not have that peace, and so will react to what the world throws at them.

                  We are entering these end times, so it is to be expected that scoffers will increase in volumn, indeed it is predicted, and being proven true as we speak.

                  All these things bring joy to the believer, who hears his redemption draw near, and knows that in a short while, Christ will return to deal with a rebellious world.

                  Not meglomania, just understanding what the bible tells us.

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    There are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity, which one is right? And don't forget about the Jewish faith (Jesus was a Jew afterall).   This has been happening throughout recorded history, nothing new and nothing changed here.  This has already happened. The early Christians were brought before the courts and killed. And various other killings approved by the "courts" and "synagogues"(Roman Catholic Church)  It is doubtful this will happen in todays time, seeing as the USA, Europe, and various other countries have Christianity as the Major religion and we have laws that prevent these kind of psychotics.  This happened during the inquision, not to mention the witch "trials"  This happened as well. Refer to the early Christians  No confirmation of this to date.  This has already happened as well. 70CE

                    Please explain how this is the bible telling us these things are going to happen in todays world? Other than the wars and "insurrections", which is an never-ending process, all the things mention have already happened at least once already. So just how many years is: "this generation shall not pass".


                    I have nothing against beliefs of anyone. But, the bible can be interpreted just about anyway one wants to support their side of the debate. And this has been done since it was first written. Sadly we don't even use all of the books that the original early Christians used. We don't even use the ones referenced by the writers of the NT. I seen a comment on another thread, that implied that if a "certian" writer of the NT, was using the "Book of Enoch" as a reference, then he was wrong because that was a "Big No No". If anyone would actually bother to include certain books into their daily biblical studies, they would see that the NT writers drew conclusions from many sources. Many of which aren't included in Today's Bible. If the NT writers and early Christian felt they applied then, then why aren't they relevent now. Just because what became the Roman Catholic Church, decided what was or wasn't actual canon? For those who feel Catholics are really Christians, there sure is an awful lot of "Christians" still following the bible that was put together by the Catholic church.

                  2. BeautifulNatural profile image59
                    BeautifulNaturalposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Beautifully stated!!

  32. SomewayOuttaHere profile image59
    SomewayOuttaHereposted 5 years ago

    http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11200000/funny-johnny-round-2-johnny-depp-11248695-600-450.jpg

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That moment of realisation....

  33. davenmidtown profile image86
    davenmidtownposted 5 years ago

    Double Scorpion:  The quest to believe must start before the concept of god is rationalized.The body and mind must be primed and willing.  As a christian, how do we prepare the unbelieving for faith?

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Why must there be a quest to believe? If there is evidence that one takes as truth, then the believe follows. I would think there should be a quest for the wisdom and evidence that can mold a belief, whatever it might be.

  34. BeautifulNatural profile image59
    BeautifulNaturalposted 5 years ago

    When the body of Jesus is found, it will be found RISEN! He is seated at the right of the Father alive. The BIBLE is not just a book, it is the inspired word of God, and for me it is a settled truth that goes far beyond mere human capacity, one must receive revelation to grasp the love of God and to believe He sent His son to die and be raised from the dead so that we could live a blessed life both here on earth and in heaven. Now, for fun let's just entertain your question. The body of what scientists believe is Jesus is found, then what? I personally would still believe, but this is just to entertain your notion. I am a believer...so I believe, simply put. I do, however, like the way in which you presented your question. I have also had someone ask can God die? I am always amazed by the imagination of people, so I am never offended and enjoy being opened to express my opinion and beliefs.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Then it's confirmed, believers will believe no matter what is placed in front of them as evidence to the contrary.

      Are we not then dealing with brainwashing?

      1. BeautifulNatural profile image59
        BeautifulNaturalposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The same can be said of unbelievers, they will not believe even when evidence is placed before their eyes.

        Brainwashing? Are atheists or agnostics brainwashed? I am not brainwashed...I am informed and confident of my belief

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          LOL!  Why are just repeating what I said when it's obvious that isn't true at all? Is that the best you can do?



          If they were, they wouldn't atheists or agnostics?



          You just said you would continue believing in your beliefs despite the fact evidence to the contrary is presented to you. That is not informed and confident, that is delusional.

          1. BeautifulNatural profile image59
            BeautifulNaturalposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Did you read my post? I said let's entertain the question, you know, hypothetically speaking. Of course, I don't believe that Jesus' body would be found, it'd absurd. I did not repeat you, I simply made a statement which I stand by...lol.
            If you don't believe in Jesus then die...and let me know if He is in fact real....oh that would be impossible being that those who die can no longer access the natural realm, but that's another topic.

            It's been fun, off to read...my BIBLE...lol

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Why is it absurd? Other than the fact Jesus never existed?



              lol

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wow, over 50 posts in less than 24 hours, impressive..... Ever thought of getting a job, maybe doing SEO or writing articles about coffee machines? might pay better than ghosting in the forums, unless you ARE paid to write this trash?.... in which case you should get employee of the month and a big bonus from your masters.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lol Careful, when you stretch so far out to make an irrelevant point, you fall into the abyss of gobbledegook, forever wallowing in nonsense. lol

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    So no answers to the question huh... par for the course

    2. 70
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus did not die on the Cross that is why he was seen after the event of crucifixion by many people; he was walking with an injured body and was still fearful of his enemis which is an ample proof that he escaped a death on the Cross.

      1. seigfried23 profile image80
        seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You speak of all of this as if you were there, paarsurrey.  If truth is truly your purview, you must start by understanding that the definition of "eyewitness evidence" is not subject to your whim.  Or, if you choose to espouse something, you must be honest with yourself as to why - to what extent does emotion play a part.  Too often do we hear words misused to support an underlying emotional edifice.

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You may differ with me; but if you will research for truth then you will know that the gospel writers were not eye-witnesses; they wrote with a wrong motive. Jesus did not die on the Cross.

          You may read the eye-witness account by clicking the following link:

          Crucifixion By An Eyewitness.com
          Presents
          THE CRUCIFIXION
          BY AN EYEWITNESS

          http://www.harisingh.com/news2C1a.htm

          1. seigfried23 profile image80
            seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            dear paarsurrey; I'm not sure disagreement is quite the word here, since I was ignorant of your beliefs.  Now that I have perused the link you sent, I see that even though you do not believe as I thought you believed, it is largely irrelevant: you haven't solved the problem at all, just displaced it!  That story has no more objective validity than the Bible or Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.  You must submit that the only reason you call it "eyewitness evidence" is because the thing, itself, says "eyewitness evidence".  That is the definition of circular reasoning.  It is tantamount to asking those with whom you disagree (Bible-believers) "well, how do you know the bible is correct?"; only for them to reply, "because it says so."  I am not saying either of you are wrong; I am saying the things you claim to be true is a misuse of the word true, since they are not objectively distinguishable from each other.  They have no more ability to discern amongst the stories they tell than if you change a location or name of a person or date of an event.  You are certainly welcome to choose to believe it; but to call it truth is a fallacy.  I can write a book today claiming I was an eyewitness to the Thunder God Woten causing the 2004 Indian Earthquake; millenia from now, someone like you could find it under rubble and claim it was a "true" account of what actually happened.  What you are doing is no different.

    3. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I would ask, do you truly know the bible (the word of God). And if you do think or know that you do, would you be willing to put it to the test versus those who are "Atheists"?

      I am not downing your beliefs in anyway. I am curious just how well you know the bible, if the body of Jesus and his writings(which differed from the bible) were actually found and didn't shake your faith at least slightly.

      And no I am not an "Atheist". But I don't claim to be Christian either.

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        IF the body of jesus and his writings (which are different from the bible)...
        what are you talking about here? What book other than the bible do you use?

        Its an underhanded question to ask people how well they know the bible. Must they quote 1,000 verses to you? Do they need to recite from genesis onward? Must they have a piece of paper with letters on it? Are you stating that your theological stance surpasses their belief?
        In all of the words of the bible and they are many there are core beliefs and the core beliefs is all that is needed to know to be christian. As i have said before, some believe in a literal snake in the garden others do not but this is not salvation dependent.
        I checked her answer and it is good enough that your questioning how well she knows her bible is unfounded for any good discussion, it is just belittling trite thrown out from someone who is being haughty.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If someone uses the bible as a foundation for their beliefs, then they should indeed know it better than those who don't believe. I don't expect a "layperson" to know more about Science than the Scientist. Nor the Student to know more than the Teacher. And that is kinda what this is like. If the non-bleiever knows more about the "Texts" or the dogma of a belief system than the believer, it makes the non-believer less likely to hold the believer as someone of knowledge and for what purpose would they wish to convert when the person debating doesn't know the information to hold a convincing argument.

          I don't not think an education surpasses a belief. But an education would allow one to have a better understanding of their belief and allow them to better "debate" the questions posed to them concerning thier faith.

          As I have told you many times. I don't argue beliefs, I have no interest in debating a person's personal belief. That is not mine or anyone else's place to do in my opinion. I do not dispute anyone's belief. Never had. I don't throw personal insults at someone because of thier beliefs differ from mine.

          I had orginally hoped that my education in the Text that is the bible, might be of use to those of Christian faith who had questions. But, what I have found, is that the majority of those who claim to be Christian are not intersted in the "facts" of the Texts themselves as taught by today's scholars. The Atheists on the other hand are very interested in the "facts" of the Texts themselves. And you might notice that I said the TEXTS, not the belief in those texts.

          I see many that claim to be Christian, that don't follow what is taught in the bible, written, beliefs or otherwise. While I have seen those who claim to be atheist live a lifestyle quite similar to what is decribed as being a "Good Christian". The difference, what one claims to believe. There are good and bad people in the world, believer and non-believer alike. The trouble with claiming to be a "true Christian" is that others actually expect you to live and act like one. Sadly, many do not.

          Many people read these forums. And I feel confident in stating, that I have proven my side of the information that we have debated and others would agree. Everyone has the ability to Google any of the "facts" we have both stated. I am not debating "Beliefs or Faith" and only debating the "facts" of the Texts and authors themselves.

  35. 70
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Why must there be a quest to believe?

    To know the truth.

    1. davenmidtown profile image86
      davenmidtownposted 5 years ago

      it has already been scientifically proven that trees communicate with each other using chemicals. It is no wonder there is so little peace on the world when educated adults can not communicate effectively without resulting in snide comments and calling names.

      1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
        WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        They also send out measurable electrical responses similar to brain waves. I haven't learned the language, but I can laugh at a good joke.

    2. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 5 years ago

      heard about shrine in Kashmir which is believed by few to be of jesus christ...ahamadis believe jesus never died on cross and survived , came to kashmir and died natural death there...

      1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
        WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Elvis is there too.

    3. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago

      Someone posted some information that I think should be expounded on.

      Tacitus was a roman historian from who lived from 56CE-117CE, While he does mention  Christ (Christus is assumed to mean Christ) in his writings, the name Jesus is not mentioned and his work was referencing the belief of christians not the fact that the "Christus" was a real person.

      Josephus a Roman apologetic Jewish historian from 37CE to 100CE, wrote about the Christ as well, but was written in reference to the beliefs of the Christian movement.

      Lucian of Samosata, a greek satirist from 125CE to 180CE. Once again, does not name Jesus, he just makes fun of the christian follows. He finds it funny that they worship a MAN who was crucified for introducing a new "cult" to the world.

      A person named Mara bar-Serapion wrote a letter sometime between late in the first century to the third century that is often thought to be one of the first non christian writings to speak of Jesus, however he never mentions Jesus in his writings. He does reference a "wise king" but never says a name or how he is killed.

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That would be me smile

        josephus  Jewish Antiquities 18.3.3
        Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, FOR he was a DOER of WONDERFUL WORKS, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had CONDEMNED HIM TO THE CROSS, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine PROPHETS HAD FORETOLD these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.

        Jewish Antiquities 20.9.1
            But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.

        Tacitus  Annals 15.44
        But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the Bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements Which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero From the infamy of being believed to have ordered the Conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he Falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were Hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was Put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign Of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time Broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief Originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things Hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their Center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first Made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an Immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of Firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.

        Lucian of Samosata
        “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He inter preted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector, NEXT AFTER THAT OTHER, to be sure, WHOM THEY STILL WORSHIP, THE MAN WHO CRUCIFIED IN PALESTINE BECAUSE HE INTRODUCED THIS NEW CULT INTO THE WORLD.

        mara ben serpion
        What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after this that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews ruined and driven from their land, live in dispersion.

        I enjoyed your opinions
        well, no i didnt lol.
        The extremes that unbelievers go to to discredit something is fascinating to me. You have an excuse for all of them but you overlook the obvious and that would be the text around the quotes which place each evidence into appropriate time lines. Serpion does not say how he was killed but he does not have to. Just because you want him include certain things does not diminish what has been said. The text around Serpion quoted above put it into a fixed place in time, the diaspora, when christ lived.
        As i have said before, the christian walk is a walk of faith. If we had all sorts of secular corroborating evidence of Jesus; faith would go out the window, indeed "blessed are those who have not seen and do believe" is true, at any time in history if a man died and rose again as is according to the habit of time and that is to pass, any event would eventually be in the past and with more past the harder to confirm of course chrisianity is not concerned with historical evidence as it is in faith and this is due to the passing of time. We have these few occurrences and should let the information process correctly instead of trying to toothpick the evidence away to meet some particular bias.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I wasn't attempting to discredit anything. I was simply expounding on the information given. And as I stated before. These are discriptions of the beliefs held by Christians only. And if you read Josephus, he tells you that he took his information for his antiquities from the "Old Testament" and other sources.

          The name/title "Christus" is debated, (I didn't debate it in my post) But simply stated that it was used in reference to the beliefs that were held by the Christians.

          And as I stated, the term used by most of the writers is the word "Christ" not Jesus. Josephus is the only writer that was listed that uses the name Jesus and he stated that he got his information from other sources.

          I agree that the Christian belief is based in faith. I do not dispute that and never have. What you seem to fail to understand, is that I am not disputing the Christian faith. I am only pointing out the "facts" concerning the texts as we (Biblical Scholars) know them.
          And you still wish to stoop to insults when someone writes something that doesn't agree with you.
          None of the writers you listed, were from the time of Jesus, they all were born and wrote after Jesus was already gone.

          Assuming from your comments of Faith, then faith is not based in facts, but on the belief of things that lack facts. And again I am not saying that your (or anyone else's) faith is right or wrong, it seems you are assuming that because I don't share your particular faith, that the "facts" that I post about the texts and authors themselves is somehow a challenge to your faith. And it isn't. If anything it should help strengthen your faith. But of course, you only wish to argue because we do not agree on our "Faiths/beliefs". Personally I don't care if you "believe" what I post or not. The fact of the matter is, the Majority of Christian Biblical Scholars are in agreement with the information I have posted. As I have said before, I don't post my personal beliefs, I only post the "facts" about the texts and writers as agreed by the majority of scholars. I don't post the interpretation or beliefs that is taken from these texts. I leave that to those who choose to use the text as the foundation for their beliefs.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The Greek usage of Christos (transcribed in Latin as Christus) in the New Testament as a description for Jesus.
            Christus is not debated at all, its a name, albeit Latin and not Greek although the two are very similar.

            What other sources.. the old lady at the market square? Really, such tactics to poison the well. Josephus', a historian,  would have used the very best sources of this we can be sure. He gave the tenants or creeds of Christianity. did he directly say he used sources for this? Perhaps this information was ever so widely and commonly known? This is a huge book and I know he used other book sources for his exposition about the OT. which this book starts at Genesis and goes past Christ. Again that is history too.

            So what kind of facts were you looking for?
            If a believer had written it, one might say, oh lying for jesus.
            But when a non believer writes something about christianity that is entirely different, but still, of course, other things have been written off, like jesus deity, his ascension into heaven, his being the son of God, a virgin birth, etc.. so why not this?

            So as i said, let the people read them and decide for themselves.
            the "facts" are this is secular evidence whatever you want to read into it is not relevant and your claim that most scholars agree with you means nothing to me, because quite obviously that is speculation based on; why, then was josephus not a believer? and not based on; why he wrote what he wrote.
            He wrote what he wrote for integrity sake and for honesty and because it was too big an issue to omit. Its part of history and this is the corroboration we wanted. He did wonderous works, he was the christ he was on the cross... well you can read it over again if you want.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Seriously, I am not disputing your beliefs or anyone else's, I made a comment based from what Josephus wrote himself.

              If you take his portion of concerning Christ as factual, do you agree that the rest of his work is factual as well? If so, you might want to read his work again and compare it to the bible you have now, as it doesn't agree on all points.

              We have had many discussions and I agree with you on one thing. Let others read for themselves and see what they get. So far, you have yet to prove any of the "facts" (not beliefs) I have said as wrong.
              You have on occasions made some good points here on the forums with the people you talk with. There are even points of your beliefs, that I agree with myself. However, the majority of my posts are based on todays scholarly teachings. I rarely post my personal beliefs or opinions and when I do, I label them as such. I rarely post anything from an emotional view, I post from a logical or "thinkers" viewpoint.
              It really doesn't matter to me if you think my beliefs are right or wrong, as I am not attempting to shove my beliefs on to you or anyone else.
              There is a reason I don't discuss "faith" or "beliefs", most cannot be proven and are of a personal nature, and that type of "truth" is not for any of us to decide for anyone but ourselves.

              And I don't use the phrase "Liars for Jesus". You are getting me confused with other posters.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I find myself in complete agreement with you. smile

          1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
            WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            There is plenty of secular evidence of the fact that Jesus was here. Pliny and so on. This is the faith question," Is he who he claimed to be?"

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, but that is not true at all.

              What is obvious to those who actually take the time to do the research is that there is ample explanations and refutations of "Pliny and so on" regarding their so-called "secular evidence" of Jesus and where exactly they got that information.

              But, of course, like so many other concepts, believers will keep posting their claims of that 'evidence' time and again.

              What's really hilarious about the whole thing is that some of the claims are based on the Crucifixion and Pilate, even though there are no records of the event ever having taken place.

              1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Try again. I didn't just fall off the truck.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't suspect nor imply you did fall off a truck. Maybe it was a car?

                  The explanations and refutations are out there for all to see. Sorry, if you refuse to accept reality. lol

                  1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                    WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Here's the reality. You have been hanging around here for three months. You have zero hubs, 12 followers . . . 11 if I drop you. There are forums all over the net, why are you hanging around here being a drive-by quipper? This is actually a work place and as such your behavior is inappropriate and unacceptable. You are obsessed with this sick game you are playing. I am from Florida . . . you are a tourist . . . I95 is right over there. Get on it and drive north! C-ya!

                    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Is that the behavior your religion teaches you? Atrocious, and laughable. Sorry that you feel your lack of forming arguments makes you angry and you need to lash out. lol

    4. 70
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      What if the body of Jesus was found?

      That will end the mythical religion founded by clever Paul and sinful writers of the gospels called "Christianity"; then the true religion of Jesus Christ will be known with a great fervor.

      1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
        WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Will you elaborate? Sometimes I am slow on the uptake. I don't know what you mean.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          smile

          1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
            WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Not that slow, lady.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Open a thread, put it up for debate. lol

        2. 70
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Paul who invented the Christianity; knew what was the basis of the religion he had invented; he admitted that if it is proved that Jesus did not die a cursed death on the Cross; then the basis of this religion whould simply crumble down. If Jesus' body is found buried like any other human being that would logically be end of Christianity.

          The resurrection of Christ from the dead is the linchpin of the Christian faith -- the  event upon which Christian doctrine stands or falls. The apostle Paul makes this clear in his first letter to the Corinthians: But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is futile and your faith is empty. … For if only in this life we have hope in Christ, we should be pitied more than anyone (1 Cor. 15:13-14, 19).

          1. deblevey profile image59
            debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            How can Paul have invented Christianity. Christianity is a name for a community of believers. You don't invent a name. Luke writes, prior to Paul's conversion, that the Pharasees, Romans and Greeks began calling Christ's disciples and other followers Christians.  We do not follow Paul...in fact Paul admonished his contemporaries from following him. Paul said 'follow Christ.  Paul didn't write the gospels.  Matthew, John; Christ's disciples...Luke a physician and historian who later wrote Acts, and John Mark, who was a youth when Christ was crucified...they wrote the Gospels on which Christianity is based. Paul came after. As I state elsewhere...SHOW ME HIS BODY!!! But you can't, can you? You are either a liar or woefully ignorant of the truth.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Paul's letters were the first Christian writings. The Gospels and other parts of the NT were written after his letters.

              1. 70
                paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                -- and under deviant Paul's influence and direction.

          2. WD Curry 111 profile image61
            WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            2 hubs in 20 months? Why are you here? Say hi to Lilian for me.
            A lady of that stature would say street address, not physical. Not advisable to stop by.

          3. WD Curry 111 profile image61
            WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You mentioned the true Christian faith. What is that? So far you are talking about a false Christian faith. Is it fair to say you are anti-Christ? The Bible says that many anti-Christs will come. From what I am witnessing here, many anti-Christs have come. That would support Biblical prophesy. This is my last post here. I will be on the art forums for now on. Good luck with your quest. Big Brother is watching. The military is one thing, the militia is another. we see you on the bus with your maps.

            1. 70
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Paul is the seed of anti-Christ; when it blossomed with the Church in full; the Church and its missionaries  became the anti-Christ.

              I am a supporter of Jesus and I love Jesus; and his 2nd coming in character- and that is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah.

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Mark 13:21-23

                And then if anyone says to you, See, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, Look, there He is! do not believe it.

                False Christs (Messiahs) and false prophets will arise and show signs and [work] miracles to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (those God has chosen out for Himself).

                But look to yourselves and be on your guard; I have told you everything beforehand.


                Once more prophesy is fulfilled. well done parrsurrey.

              2. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I lied. I am back for one more thing. I see what you are talking about now. I respect that with all of my heart. Don't try to tell me where to walk my dog, though. Shalom

    5. deblevey profile image59
      debleveyposted 5 years ago

      My point is based on this premise...in over 2000 years, what you describe has failed to happen.  There have been some magnificent attempts to make it appear that the scenerio you describe, or something like it, has happened. None of these have withstood the burden of scientific inquiry.  I predict that none ever will. The nature of scientific discovery has always been such...experts declare this has happened, or that is irrefutably true only to sheepishly admit later this or that has been disproven in light of new evidence. But those xains keep saying that Jesus is the physical embodiment of the Eternal Godhead, and not one shred of credible evidence exists to prove otherwise.  We have evidence of so many other historic and prehistoric events.  Why not this?  Because there is no more evidence...it doesn't exsist.  The burden of faith, or the lack of such, is left to be accepted or denied by the human heart...or mind, if you prefer."Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen."   ~ Hebrews 11:1

      1. Captain Redbeard profile image59
        Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        nice!

      2. deblevey profile image59
        debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        As I've come to this argument lately, i've been reading up the line and feel the need to respond to the muslims and others in the group who claim Jesus Christ's physical body is in India.  Show me the body.  Let me see the body. Where is the body? Why won't you make it available foir inspection.  Because you can't Whatever bodies you have, or claim to have, cannot be proven to be of the Christ...or else the bodies you have will all actually prove to NOT be the body of Christ.  And here's an interesting fact.  Muslims are permitted to LIE so long as it furthers the cause of Allah....who, by this very fact is disproven because God, the one true God, Jehovah, El, Eliohim, El ShaddaI, Adoni...THAT God cannot/will not abide with a LIE for ANY REASON!!!! Because to do so would be to invalidate Himself.  And this, scripture says, is the ONE THING God CANNOT do...He cannot disprove Himself. However, Allah can, and does many times, every day.

        1. Captain Redbeard profile image59
          Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Do you know what passage in the Quran says they may lie to further the cause of Allah? I haven't read that before.

          1. 0
            Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            There seems to be a lot of passages about lying.

            http://www.islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml

            1. 70
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              There is none; if you don't agree with me, please quote a verse from Quran with the verses in context.

              1. deblevey profile image59
                debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good.""

                1. deblevey profile image59
                  debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  From the article, 'lying in islam,' cited by virgil newsome above.

                  1. deblevey profile image59
                    debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    " This point is proven by many incidences in the life of Mohammed. He often lied and instructed his followers to do the same. He rationalized that the prospect of success in missions to extend Islam's influence overrode Allah's initial prohibitions against lying. A good example of sanctioned lying is the account of the assassination of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf, a member of the Jewish tribe, Banu al-Nudair. It had been reported that Kaab had shown support for the Quraishites in their battle against Mohammed. This was compounded by another report that infuriated Mohammed. It was alleged that Kaab had recited amorous poetry to Muslim women. Mohammed asked for volunteers to rid him of Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf. As Mohammed put it, Kaab had "Harmed Allah and His Apostle." At that time Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf, and his tribe were strong, so it was not easy for a stranger to infiltrate and execute the task. A Muslim man by the name of Ibn Muslima, volunteered for the murderous project on the condition that Mohammed would allow him to lie. With Mohammed's consent, Ibn Muslima, went to Kaab and told him fabricated stories that reflected discontent about Mohammed's leadership. When he had gained Kaab's trust he lured him away from his house one night and murdered him in a remote area under the cover of darkness. "

                    Also from the source cited above.  I never made the claim lying was sanctioned by the Koran. My claim was that muslims consider lying to be acceptable, even encouraged, by muslim clerics, according to words spoken by Mohammed. Whether these words are recorded in the Koran is of little interest to me. The Koran is irrelvant to my faith and salvation in Jesus Christ. Muslem leadership says lying is ok.  Muslims decide what is good enough to lie for.  No scripture to support it. Don't get me wrong, Christians lie all the time and get caught, and pay the temporal penalty, but if they confess, they receive God's forgiveness because the blood price has been paid through Christ. I don't think I've ever heard a Christian cleric write, preach or teach that lying, or bearing false witness, is acceptable for any reason....because to do so would repudiate God's law, which clearly forbids lying for any reason.

                    1. 70
                      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Quran is the only source of knowledge of those times; and Quran recorded everything in it; others sources came 200/300 years after the death of Muhammad.

                      Please quote from a source of Muhammad's time; to support your claim. Muhammad never spoke except the truth.

                      Please mention the teaching of not speaking truth from Quran.

                    2. 70
                      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      You could not quote from Quran.

                2. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You could not quote from Quran.

              2. 0
                Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                016.106
                YUSUFALI: Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.
                PICKTHAL: Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief - save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with the Faith - but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom.
                SHAKIR: He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.
                _____________________________________________

                Three different translations saying it is OK to lie in certain situations.

                1. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I provide the above verse with the verses in the context:

                  [16:102] And when We bring one Sign in place of another — and Allah knows best what He reveals — they say, ‘Thou art but a fabricator.’ Nay, but most of them know not.
                  [16:103] Say, ‘The Spirit of holiness has brought it down from thy Lord with truth, that He may strengthen those who believe, and as a guidance and glad tidings for Muslims.’
                  [16:104] And indeed We know that they say that it is only a man who teaches him. But the tongue of him to whom they unjustly incline in making this insinuation is foreign, while this is Arabic tongue, plain and clear.
                  [16:105] As for those who do not believe in the Signs of Allah, surely, Allah will not guide them, and they shall have a grievous punishment.
                  [16:106] It is only those who believe not in the Signs of Allah, that forge falsehood, and they it is who are the liars.
                  [16:107] Whoso disbelieves in Allah after he has believed — save him who is forced thereto while his heart finds peace in the faith — but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is Allah’s wrath; and they shall have a severe punishment.
                  [16:108] That is because they have preferred the present life to the Hereafter, and because Allah guides not the disbelieving people.
                  [16:109] It is they on whose hearts and ears and eyes Allah has set a seal. And it is they who are the heedless.

                  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=99

                  There is no commandment here to speak lie.
                  Those who contend it should substantiate their viewpoint.

              3. 0
                Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64:

                    Narrated 'Ali:

                    Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

                1. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It is not from Quran- the first and the foremost source of Islam, whatever the denomination.

                  Hadith did not exist in the time of Muhammad; it was written/collected 200/300 years after Muhammad's demise.

                  It is not the root source of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

                  1. deblevey profile image59
                    debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It is not from koran, it is not from koran...that is all you say, like banging the bottom of an old metal pot. Yet I know enough historr regarding Islam that you are taught to respect the previos teachings of the Torah (first five books of the bible) and the sayings of Christ. First and foremost, Christ said He would die, and be raised from the dead.  When He was transfigured, He appeared to His followers in the presence of Moses and Elijah, two great prophets who were taken by God, having never tasted physical death.  Jesus is the culmination of all Jewish prophesy, He is the Messiah. There is no need for Muhammed. OMG yers I dare utter the name of the (so called) prophet Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed! Still here...God has not stuck me dead....

                    MY POINT IS THIS  You say all proodf must come from Koran, yet your religion clearly teaches respect for Jewish teaching and the words of Christ.  Furthermore, you are not opposed to quoting from the epistles (letters of the disciples in the new testament) when they appear to support your argument, but when we quote scripture that clearly repudiates your muslim claims, or disagrees with what the koran claims, all of a sudden, the only proof you will accept is the Koran. You repeatedly lecture us to present koran verses in proper context yet you refuse our arguments when we show you biblical proof to substantiat correct biblical context.  Either you take the Bible as a whole, with correct hebrew translation as it applies to the situation according to context, and as it applies to the reader, who has been instructed and has prayed for illumination---or you accep nothig that the bible says. The Old Testament points to a savior, a blood sacrifice, a Son of God. The new tesetament clearly is fullfillment of the law revealed in the Old testament. And in the final book of the bible we are told to add nothing to, and take nothing from the words contained in the whole Bible....predating Mohammed's delusions by nearly 600 years. Finito, the end, and all true believers live happily ever after. Right after the battle on the plains of Armeggedon...with you guys...and oh by the way, we win!

                    Apologies if I sound rude or threatening to you, but that is the prophesy.  For all the world.  Not the koran. Jesus is perfect in every way. Mohammed was.....not.  Jesus lives and reigns....Mohammed....does not. I encourage you to check out a book by an insightful theologian and Christian apologist Ravi Zacheriah...He is Indian.  The name of the Book is "Jesus and Mohammed."  Ravi uses data from the Hebrew Torah, the hebrew prophets and the teachings of Christ as presented in the Old Testament; as well as data from the Koran to demonstrate the superiour argument that Jesus is the fulfillment of all prophesy and Mohammed is just plain wrong.

                    1. deblevey profile image59
                      debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Old and New Testament, that is...

                    2. deblevey profile image59
                      debleveyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Then Pilate therefore took Jesus and scourged Him.
                         
                      2And the soldiers plaited a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and they put on Him a purple robe

                         
                      3and said, "Hail, King of the Jews!" And they smote Him with their hands.

                         
                      4Pilate therefore went forth again and said unto them, "Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him."

                         
                      5Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. And Pilate said unto them, "Behold the man!"

                         
                      6When therefore the chief priests and the officers saw Him, they cried out, saying, "Crucify him! Crucify him!" Pilate said unto them, "Ye take him and crucify him, for I find no fault in him."

                         
                      7The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God."

                         
                      8When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid.

                         
                      9And he went again into the judgment hall and said unto Jesus, "From whence art thou?" But Jesus gave him no answer.

                         
                      10Then said Pilate unto Him, "Speakest thou not unto me? Knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?"

                         
                      11Jesus answered, "Thou couldest have no power at all against Me, unless it were given thee from above. Therefore he that delivered Me unto thee hath the greater sin."

                         
                      12And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, "If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend. Whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar."

                         
                      13When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha.

                         
                      14And it was the Preparation of the Passover and about the sixth hour, and Pilate said unto the Jews, "Behold your king!"

                         
                      15But they cried out, "Away with him, away with him! Crucify him!" Pilate said unto them, "Shall I crucify your king?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar!"

                         
                      16Then he delivered Him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus and led Him away.

                         
                      17And He, bearing His cross, went forth into a place called the Place of a Skull (which is called in the Hebrew, Golgotha)

                         
                      18where they crucified Him and two others with Him, one on either side and Jesus in the midst.

                         
                      19And Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was: JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

                         
                      20Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city, and it was written in Hebrew and Greek and Latin.

                         
                      21Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, "Write not `The King of the Jews,' but, `He said, I am King of the Jews.'"

                         
                      22Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written."

                         
                      23Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to every soldier a part, and also His coat. Now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.

                         
                      24They said therefore among themselves, "Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be," that the Scripture might be fulfilled which saith, "They parted My raiment among them, and for My vesture did they cast lots." These things therefore the soldiers did.

                         
                      25Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother and His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

                         
                      26When Jesus therefore saw His mother and the disciple standing by whom He loved, He said unto His mother, "Woman, behold thy son!"

                         
                      27Then said He to the disciple, "Behold thy mother!" And from that hour, that disciple took her unto his own home.

                         
                      28After this Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst."

                         
                      29Now there was set there a vessel full of vinegar; and they filled a sponge with vinegar and put it upon hyssop, and put it to His mouth.

                         
                      30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, "It is finished." And He bowed His head and gave up the ghost.

                         
                      31The Jews therefore, because it was the Preparation, and so that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day (for that Sabbath day was a high day), besought Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

                         
                      32Then came the soldiers and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him.

                         
                      33But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was dead already, they broke not His legs,

                         
                      34but one of the soldiers with a spear pierced His side, and forthwith there came out blood and water.

                         
                      35And he that saw it bore record, and his record is true, and he knoweth that he saith truly, that ye might believe.

                         
                      36For these things were done, that the Scripture should be fulfilled: "A bone of Him shall not be broken."

                         
                      37And again another Scripture saith, "They shall look on Him whom they pierced."

                         
                      38And after this, Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore and took the body of Jesus.

                         
                      39And there came also Nicodemus, who at first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds in weight.

                         
                      40Then took they the body of Jesus and wound it in linen cloths with the spices, as is the manner of the Jews for burial.

                         
                      41Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new sepulcher wherein was never man yet laid.

                         
                      42There they laid Jesus therefore because of the Jews' Preparation Day, for the sepulcher was nigh at hand.

    6. aware profile image69
      awareposted 5 years ago

      grave robbing
         desecration
        put on display
        if i were him
      id wish to forever
        stay hidden

      1. 73
        SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Some of us find his body everyday, apparently he rose from the dead.

      2. deblevey726 profile image60
        deblevey726posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        @ aware  the point, dear one, is this...praise the LORD, you are not Him! Can you know the mind of God, what He wishes, what He doesn't wish...Again, praise Jesus...no you cannot.  Because you are mortal while He is eternal.  You are darkness and He is light. You can't hide the ligt.  It is not the nature of light to stay hidden.  It must burst forth to dispell the darkness.  Either enter the light or flee to your doom!!! Merry Christmas!

    7. Joshuad profile image79
      Joshuadposted 5 years ago

      Christianity is not a religion - it is a belief. Whether you believe Jesus or not, it is left for you, and you who claimed that Jesus has not risen or Jesus has never exist, you will know the truth at the moment you breath your last on this earth. And if you are reading this, believe me, that at that moment you are going to remember this post.
      For me: I personally believe in Jesus and with that belief I feel his presence within my life. He is my provider as well as my future designer. I don't claim to be a christian in any circumstances or social debates. As you talk, as you walk, people will sense the presence of who you believed in––and they are sensing Christ.
      Additionally, I am a personal witness of Jesus Christ as comforter, councelor and friend. There are many witnesses in the 20th century of people who desired to see Jesus Christ, and guess what? He'd appeared to them and speak to them as well. I also have many witnesses around me who saw a sign of Him in their dreams. –– so, Jesus lives and I believe, and nothing in this world can change this believe.

     
    working