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Can homosexuals live a christian lifestyle or is that hypocritical?

  1. davenmidtown profile image87
    davenmidtownposted 5 years ago

    There seems to be such a focus in the forums between homosexuality and religion/god that I am now curious about whether or not gay people can be Christians in the same context as straight people can be Christians?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If people understand that being "gay" is a temptation like other sins, then yes of course they can be Christians.  I know people, and know of people, who do exactly that!   They're born-again, and live celibate lives, or else they struggle with their temptations until they're able to get beyond them and live in accordance with God's laws.    God is a loving, forgiving God, and will help those who want to live right.   But if they're in deliberate denial and decide to think God will condone their homosexual actions, they're not gonna be able to repent and receive forgiveness.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        See, thread over.  Brenda has spoken for God and all Christianity.  What else do you need?

        1. davenmidtown profile image87
          davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It is nice that the voice of god can be female... that may open an entire other can of worms.

          1. Paul Wingert profile image79
            Paul Wingertposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Why would anyone want to live a lifestyle (Christian) that is predudice against gays or non Christians?

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              its not prejudice, its wary

              First we actually have to ascertain if the gay person is actually leading a gay lifestyle or if they just do it occasionally because they are too horny and not able to control that horniness. Sometimes people who did a gay thing then think they are gay, but they are not, they just occasionally do a gay thing, it may even be called, 'experimentation', i suppose. If they can't get a woman due to low self esteem or confidence or fear, is another issue, but it alludes to their "being gay".
              So there is much to consider about gayness.
              Maybe they are just swingers or bi-sexual or too horny for one gender.
              So again, prejudice towards gays is not a christian standing. Personally i don't have the energy to dedicate toward deciphering the whole thing and since Gods spirit changes people, not me, i am disinclined to worry about it. It is not actually a situation i have ever had to deal with as i don't know any gay christians.
              But God made them male and female and i believe this is Gods preferred arrangement. God loves children.
              So just because the bible says that heterosexual is His preference i wonder if you can call us prejudice.

              Lets look at prejudice by definition:
              an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
                  Well christians are not without knowledge or thought or reason on this topic as it is rather plainly stated in Gods word.
              2.
              any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
                  This might fit, but i wonder how the soccer moms feel about the visiting team.
              3.
              unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group
                  Now i think this is the definition you are specifically referring to smile and if the reaction of the christian is unreasonable, that is to say, hostile, then the christian reaction is out of line, but if it is dealt with in a loving way (no pun intended) I think then the christian is not acting out of prejudice.

              1. stephdking profile image60
                stephdkingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Christians seem to be getting lumped into one category.  Organized religion, I believe is often the culprit.  Many religious people have done horrible things in the name of god.  To be "Christian"  is to be christ like, which is obviously a huge challenge for a human being. 
                I also think its dangerous/misleading to quote a partial scripture, if you look hard enough you could justify many things and condemn the same in other parts of the bible.  To me the overall message, and reason he sent his only son, is because of love.  Promoting ill feelings toward any person for any reason is just not "christ like" to me.

                1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                  brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I know... of all the discussions i have with christians, a gay lifestyle never comes up. We talk about bible and the weeks experiences, but gayness, no. So how is this actually a topic.
                  a) Hi mr. so and so, God bless you!
                  b) thanks I am gay know
                  a) oh is that right....
                  This is more like a conversation for a pastor with someone who is dealing in some way with the situation.
                  "OH i wonder how many girls in the christian praise dance group are lesbian" - never a thought of mine.

              2. nebaker profile image79
                nebakerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wary? Laughably judgemental.

            2. Kiss andTales profile image21
              Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              you answer to that would be the opposit of God ! would be resister , satan! there is no in between no fence! the fence belongs to him! your choices in life can reflect one or the other! if you choose to not want to follow Christs example, that is your free choice ! but so what goes along with it ,death forever like Adam and Eve! Christ purpose was to free us from satans choice for us that is death forever! he purchased us with the value of a perfect fleshly body! that body no money or gold or silver then could ever be near or ever reach the value payed in our behalf because he was God first born son! Why live a Christain life to be respectfull to God and his Son . anything else goes to satan!

              1. recommend1 profile image69
                recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                At least you have the decency to babble to cover the nonsense of your answer here.

          2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            For me that's like celebrating Margaret Thatcher as the first female prime minister.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol Good ole Mag was honoured for her wonderful contribution to life in England.

              She was so thrilled she almost fell off her ego!

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                And the rest of us fell off a cliff.

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yep! Immigration to Australia consisted of the working class getting to hell out from under the iron maiden. smile

      2. Brewster9 profile image61
        Brewster9posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        God never condemned gay people.  Man did.  And Christians call it a sin.
        But they fornicate everyday and that is an acceptable sin.
        It is all hypocrisy.
        If an all wise God did not want people to be gay He {or She} would had made it so that it could NOT be so.  And all wise God that is.
        And it is funny when people want to condemn gays they use the word 'homosexual' instead of the more modern word 'gay' which is more acceptable and shows that people are more tolerant.Homophobic men wrote some of the bible and even crazy men, it is NO authority to me,

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          can someone get the ball from way out in left field please?

          1. nebaker profile image79
            nebakerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Be wary. Be very wary.

        2. nebaker profile image79
          nebakerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The Bible is  work of man and shows all man's petty likes, dislikes and foibles.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The bible is much more intrinsic. The constant theme throughout relays Gods, not mans, preferences. It starts from a time of creation - not portrayed in fanciful style, but by a day to day pattern, it then rolls along to God choosing a people and teaching them a separate, diversified and complex style of worship - obviously nothing man could have imagined.  Full of predictions about future occurrences  and stuffed with amazing supernatural events it doesn't stop there but teaches, how to live life above what man would prefer, It goes beyond that to point to a coming messiah, who did arrive, then it goes on to change a dispensation from law to grace by the death of Gods fleshly incarnation and further to forgive sins and present a way to God that is so easily obtained - just by the words spoken via the mouth - and then to proclaim that there is a life after this one, even a resurrection by one man and that resurrection  is a pattern for all people, who believe. The book gives views into heaven and what goes on there -albeit in vision language - and portrays a huge amount of credibility throughout that is consistent from beginning to end.
            Just to name a few of the extraordinary achievements of this book made by God, not man.
            It would have been welcomed if you had elaborated on what petty dislikes and foibles.

      3. SpanStar profile image61
        SpanStarposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I concur with Brenda.  I haven't read anything  that she wrote that doesn't sound like what is in bible teaching.

    2. Naomi's Banner profile image77
      Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      According to what I read in the scriptures God does not condone this lifestyle.  I don't see how you can live a christian life which is described in the Bible and practice this lifestyle.  On the other hand I believe that like anything else people have choices to make and we have no right to condem anyone of those choices.  There are several scriptures that say you can't be both but Jesus will be the judge and jury on that one.

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        Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think there is often a confusion between a lifestyle and a sexual orientation.  Gay people are still gay, even if they lead a celibate life, just as a straight person is still straight.

        1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
          Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I really don't think there is a confusion at all. We are born man and woman for a reason.  All animal species have a male sex and a female sex for a reason to reproduce after their own kind so they continue to survive.  When we bring Christianity into the discussion  and the OP did we are looking at a lifestyle as God, according to the Word, did not intend for any other types of marriage other than between a man and a woman.  According to the Word sex is condoned only in the marriage relationship.  So if people are having sex outside of marriage for instance than that is a lifestyle of fornication.  If people are having sex outside of the marriage partnership than that is adultry.  If people are having sex between partners of the same sex than that is homosexuality.  Marriage is a lifestyle, fornication is a lifestyle, adultry is a lifestyle, homosexuality is a lifestyle.  There are only two sexual orientations mentioned scientifically and/or in the Bible and that is male and female.  There is no mention of gay as a sexual orientation in science or in the Bible.  So one must ask the question where did this come from?  We have males and we have females.  To my knowledge no one is born in a female body as a male and no one is born as a male body as a female.  There may be those who are born female but do not want to be female and there may be those who are born male who do not want to be male just as some of us are born with brown hair and want to be blondes and some of us are born blonde and want to be a red head.  Some want blue eyes and some want brown.  Some want tall legs and some want short legs.
          I have not heard that there is another species created out there other than male and female that I am aware of.  There are simply men and women that choose to practice a gay lifestyle of having sex with same sex partners.  Choosing to do this does not change the fact that you are either man or woman at birth.  You can have surgery and change the body parts and take hormones to make the body you were born with look different and feel different but that doesn't change the fact that you are born male or female any more than dyeing your hair changes the fact that you are blonde if you dye your hair red.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Not true. There are plenty of animals that reproduce asexually.



            Not true. There are plenty of animals that show homosexual tendencies, science has found that out already.



            I think we have discovered the problem with your post.

            1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
              Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Amphibians, not mammals.  We are of the mammal species.  The only asexual animals are non mammals.

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                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                But, there are ample examples of homosexuality in mammals.

                1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
                  Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes but can they reproduce....that was the point I was making.

              2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Not true, we are also of primates and there are ample examples of homosexuality in primates.

              3. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                And your point?

            2. Kiss andTales profile image21
              Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Man was made in Gods Image not animal ! Man is always superior to animals, Jesus came in a mans form here on earth to provide a way out of sickness and the result of death! yes many people have a choices, but what will God say about us individualy! Godlike or not!

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Your only indication that man looks like God is a 2000 year old book that makes that claim along with hundreds of other lies.  Not a very good reference.

                Nearly every animal is superior to man in one way or another.  Can you keep up with a cheetah?  Can you swim like a dolphin?  Can you lift the weight of a gorilla?  We have our own strengths but to say we are always superior is nonsense.  It may be good propaganda to make you feel good, but it remains nonsense.

                The tale of Jesus is that he came in a mans form to conquer death, but we still die.  Once per lifetime is the going rate.

          2. leahlefler profile image99
            leahleflerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So what about the people who are born with uncertain gender? There are people who are female (XX chromosomes), but who carry the SRY gene on one and develop male characteristics. There are those who have an XXY genotype, Klinefelter syndrome, Turner Syndrome, and androgen insensitivity. Oh, and let's not forget those with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (where you are born with a female appearance and suddenly sprout male appendages near puberty).

            It would appear that God made them male, female, and a little of both.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              And then there is the rare hermaphrodite.  Can they love either sex, no one at all or only other hermaphrodites?  Only God knows and He isn't telling.

        2. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          God doesn't endorse a celibate lifestyle either. He wants His people to experience all things godly in this life - marriage is the norm.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Huh!  Tell that one to the Catholics and other Christian sects that have spent hundreds of years studying what God wants and following those findings as closely as they can.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I just did! if they are reading my post smile

              I would not look to catholicism for teaching the word of God. We all know there are so many wrong teachings.

              Celibacy has its advantages.
              Marriage has many more advantages
              To impute celibacy upon people is a work of the flesh. God created male and female to become one. How does 1 + 1 = 1? Only if each part is not whole. I think marriage completes people. Lack of companionship and loneliness, etc sucks.
              Proverbs 18:22   Whoso finds a wife finds a good thing, and has obtained favor of the LORD.

      2. davenmidtown profile image87
        davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I thought the whole point of sodom and Gamorrah was that even though they were all wickedly indulgent that it was done without righteousness?

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          Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, God seems to have approved of things which today are morally wrong, such as slavery, genocide  or the sacrifice of living animals.  He seemed to be more concerned that people did not have other gods than Himself.

          1. davenmidtown profile image87
            davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Why would that be?  I can not imagine that hanging out with humans when you are a god is all that exciting... imagine all you would have to explain to them... us...

          2. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            God cannot change because truth does not change. Sin is still sin and has bad repercussions then as it does today and it is this dislike of sin that defines God, Godliness and holiness. The fact that God knows how we should live and what causes us grief is part of His character and since this truth cannot change, God cannot change.

            slavery has been discussed and slavery is not slavery as we think of it. Gods people treated slaves fairly and let them go every jubilee year.
            Genocide is interesting. Certainly christ taught to love your enemies so i think you are referring to the OT. God has never set up jails, holding pens yes, until judgment was affirmed but i can't recall God ever saying "and the man who sins shall serve X amount of years in confinement". In the desert the people lived in tents and were actively nomadic, so jails were out of the question. So we need to look further like the book of joshua, in chapter 20 God has appointed Cities of Refuge whereby people could escape to and await trial. Romans had jails and we today have jails. For many jailable offenses i think capital punishment would be more fitting. Too harsh for you dear reader, but what a deterrent huh.
            The sacrifice of living animals has been discussed also. The sacrifice was actually their dinner. They ate of the meat so like God benefited from the sacrifice so did the family.
            The killing of animals is not morally wrong today otherwise we would not have beef or chicken. Slavery equated to employment also to pay off a debt. A maid or butler would be a good example of a slave, which the bible says servant more frequently than slave in the original language. bondservant is totally cool, when you find out what that is..
            God was not MORE concerned about not having other Gods but it was something he really had to govern over. Look at the golden calf at mount sinai. 40 days and they were already reverting back to egypt. God was more concerned about being able to provide good lives for his people and He still is today.

            The reason God hangs out with us is, because we are made in His image. People often think God is tailor made to fit the human condition but through the bible God displays anger, love, patience, mercy, jealousy, joy. God did not create us so distant and foreign to himself that he cannot relate to us. It is because he can relate that he picked himself a people and persevered with them.

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              Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The word genocide means the killing of a group or race of people in part or in whole.  It doesn't refer to imprisonment.  God commanded genocide, when he ordered the Jews to kill the people in neighbouring lands.  He instructed them to kill evey one of them, every man, woman and child.  He even ordered that the women with child be "ripped up" and that the babes should have their heads dashed out upon the rocks.  This total destruction of a people is what I meant by genocide.

              1. livelonger profile image90
                livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Why refer to a mythical genocide of which there is no evidence, when there are plenty going on right now?

              2. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I did forget to elabroate on genocide, lol, ooops. smile
                There are examples of the nations around Gods people causing war with the hebrews.. they were called jews much much later in history... these other nations had no restraints upon them. Recall the commandment moses brought written on stone while the hebrews were in the desert: thou shalt not murder. But in some cases murder is just unavoidable.
                We need to ask this question. Was Gods people supposed to just sit and be slaughtered or by the nations around them? Annihilation would certainly have occurred in any of the battles they fought.
                We read of pharaoh calling for the firstborn males to be killed thus we discovered moses in a reed basket.
                We know of herod killing a small amount of babies up to the age of 2 in a small town of top population, 500. How many of those inhabitants would be between 0 and 2.. 40 maybe - just guessing. Not a big horrendous slaughter like the movies portray, but thats media.
                Babylon slaughtered whole towns in their conquests and shipped people off to their land just to weaken the surviving residents.
                Persia.. no different. The romans certainly had their case and facts of mass slaughtering.
                When the hebrews were camped in canaan land .. balaam had a plan to weaken the hebrews, who were now in the promised land and content to stay there, but he tempted israel to sin by sending the women to cause the hebrews to sin and God thought he ought to wipe the midianites out to prevent their seduction of his children - Gods love in protection mode.
                Due to the barbaracity of the times and including that other nations plundered and killed for pleasure and profit, while God was actively trying to passively move his people into a land that flowed with milk and honey, coupled with the events at jericho.. marching around the walls for 7 days.. during that 7 days God was actually allowing the inhabitants of jericho time to surrender which in fact would be more like 'convert' but they did not.
                A good percentage of the time of history the hebrews were slaves to other nations, Egypt, babylon, persia, greece and rome. 400 yrs to egypt, 700 plus to babylon and persia. 305 yrs approx to rome and a few other times here and there. While they were free they had to fight to stay alive.

                Yes the call for absolute wipe out did occur but, there are other merciless killings in the bible from the nations around them upon the hebrew people, who, incidently were not a people of war, trained in the art of killing, for X amount of time they were untrained ex-slaves. In some battles God stepped in and killed more enemies than the hebrews did in single battle.
                Joshua 10:11   And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
                So if you are picturing a God who just maliciously called for genocide without reason, for the above reasons and other reasons i do not agree.

              3. lizzieBoo profile image79
                lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Gosh.

            2. davenmidtown profile image87
              davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Here is something to think about... I was reading Genesis and it talks about how god created the world.  It say that he gave us the herbs and flowering fruits to eat.  It did not say he gave us any of the meat creatures to eat.  It says that we are to watch over all of his creatures.  what is your take on this?

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                Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                As a vegetarian, I think it a false claim that God put animals on Earth for humans to eat.  The fact is that humans are a new species in evolutionary terms, so the other animals who share this planet with us were here for millions of years before humans even began to evolve.  So, according to the Bible, they were hanging around for all that time, waiting for humans to come along and eat them.

                1. recommend1 profile image69
                  recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well not really.  Some animals have always eaten other animals, while other animals have always been veggies - and we appear to have always been both,which by the way is probably an evolutionary advantage.

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                    Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I realise that animals have been eating each other since the beginnings of evolution.  However, this does not mean that God put these animals on Earth millions of years before man even began to evolve in order to be farmed and eaten only by man.

              2. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Gods original intention was for herb eating animals and it will be again the same way.
                The bible clearly states that animals and man were not that far apart, certainly not millions of years.
                When we look to genesis and the fall chapter (3) and we compare life in the garden to life outside the garden after the fall, we have to note many things changed, for instance, in the garden man had dominion over the animals, afterward, the fear of man was upon the animals.

                If animals had been around for millions of years... they were certainly cut off short at the time of the flood. Which would mean animals were only around after the flood and only those contained in the ark. The animals in the ark would have been both meat and herb eaters.
                As a christian humor card once display.. there was a deer between a lion and a tiger, all in cages but the caption was.. to some it seemed like more than 40 days. smile

        2. Naomi's Banner profile image77
          Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          From what I read in the Bible there is only three basic things brought out in the story of Sodom and Gomorah.  Wickedness, people practicing homosexuality, people practicing imorality, and the lack of righteousness which comes from practicing sin.

          1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Like those who cast the first stone?

            1. Kiss andTales profile image21
              Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I was taught the truth hurts ! because we miss the point of meaning a shot hurts but medicine saves lifes! in this case it is our physical and spiritual life at stake! the question is whats pleasing to the one who created life in the beginning and how can I keep living,and keep his memory of me in good standing! this is the focus ! the wisdom behind the statment.

      3. DoubleScorpion profile image86
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        To add to your comment. The bible also says that anyone who was married and gets divorced and remarried is living in adultery as long as they stay married. There is numerous things listed in the OT, that Jesus or Paul didn't change. And they aren't being practiced today.

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          Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, and the Old Testament also says that a parent should stone their disobedient child to death.  I don't think the rule of law would accept this idea, because it was God who commanded it.

          1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
            Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Those who choose to live by the law must practice the law.  Jesus died on the cross to fulfill the law once and for all putting an end to the practice of the law.  He was the supreme sacrifice for our sins.  He bled and died for our redemtion.  We are redeemed from the law and its curse.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Homosexuality, adultery and quite a few other things are covered under that same law that Jesus died for absolution of.

              1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
                Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes that is correct.

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            Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The trouble is, that different Christians interpret this differently.  For instance, Christ said nothing whatsoever about homosexuality.  This is mentioned in the Old Testament as part of the Mosaic Law, which Christians now reject, because Christ came to put an end to the law.  Yet Chrisitans still add this particular bit of the old law to the New Testament teachings of Christ.  I can never understand this, and no Christian has been able to answer why this should be.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Most Christians will pick and choose what they want to follow or belief and this is no different.

              As in most such cases it is something they don't want to do themselves and is therefore chosen to be the word of God and followed forever.  Other commandments from God that they DO want to do themselves (wear different kinds of cloth perhaps, or eat pork) are obviously rejected by Christ and thus not to be followed any more.

            2. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Its because we have a spiritual common sense. Common sense tells me that certain things are not allowed; like dating women who are not christians and that being gluttonous over food is not good either. Takin a rooster up the tunnel is not christian also.
              You see the principles are in the word.. God made them male and female.. so Gods preference is shown in the word with other likewise scriptures. Same sex people do not reproduce according to Gods plan for families.
              So to say that a gay lifestyle is not according to scripture is not out of context nor part of the law reapplied.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                So basically, even if it doesn't say what you thought it did, it still does because of "spiritual common sense"?  Wow.  In other words... You don't like it so God must be against it as well...  Good to know.  I need to know where you live so that I can make sure the smoke from the goat sacrifice blows towards you.

                1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                  brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You need to stop the criticizing and comprehend the words written before you go ahead and make your own interpretation. If you are not able to understand spiritual common sense...oh well.
                  hopefully i can spell it out for you:
                  Common sense in the worldly term means things that make sense, they are hopefully right and correct, but sound in judgment. Dads sometimes say, "use your common sense".
                  Spiritual common sense means the same but it is applied to spiritual matters, but it is still common sense only WITHIN the parameters of Gods word.

                  The fact that you think boldly to say what you said after the wow is rather insolent of you.
                  Lets use spiritual common sense shall we.
                  You said "you (meaning me, i assume) don't like it so God must be against it as well" This is a bawdy opinion and I can see why you have problems with common sense. I will go back to the context of my prior post just to mess with your cognitive abilities, and thankyou for the leeway to do so...
                  I said there is a principle in Gods word that they were created male and female. This statement was before any 10 commandments or levitical law or priesthood, so and therefore, it is a priniciple not a mosaic law, and to that principle i was referring. Now it makes spiritual common sense to keep this principle in line with other biblical guidelines.
                  Adam said, again before any levitical priesthood or mosaic law that from his flesh she was taken and they shall cleave together and be one flesh.
                  So safe to comprehend and in accordance to my post, male and female he created them to cleave together and be one flesh. So spiritual common sense dictates, in this matter Gods order and whatever i think about it personally has no bearing on the matter.

                  More about spritual common sense.
                  God says do not kill... so it takes us 3 hrs to walk to the store after the rain being careful not to step on any earthworms that have washed up on the sidewalk. hmm  obviously we should be careful but not obsessive about it.
                  God said love your enemies.. so do we make enemies just to love them, obviously not. Do we hug and kiss them, obviously not. Do we buy em a lottery ticket.. perhaps. lol.

                  the line about the goat shows lack of common sense
                  have a nice day.

            3. Naomi's Banner profile image77
              Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Romans 1:26,27  Jesus does not condemn it in any Words of His in the scripture.  Paul condems it in this scripture I just mentioned.  He  condemns it for men and women.
              As far as what we eat, Jesus made it very plain that we can eat whatever we want as long as it is not offensive to others.  His teachings were about loving one another as we love ourselves.  If what we do causes our brother to stumble then we have to answer to that.

            4. Naomi's Banner profile image77
              Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus came not to condemn the world but that the world through Him would be saved.  He never judged.  He even let the woman who was caught commiting fornication free as He refused to condemn her.  It is quite interesting to me that Jesus is God's son and He came to earth in the flesh to show in person what His father was about.  He came to show that God is love.

        2. Naomi's Banner profile image77
          Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You are correct.  The Bible gives permission for divorce in certain circumstances but does go on to say that if one marries a divorced person they are committing adultry.

    3. 2besure profile image83
      2besureposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have been a Christian for over thirty years and the question is, can a Christian live a Christian lifestyle? When we begin to realize that, we each have to save ourselves and stop worrying about how others live and what others and doing and who is going to heaven and who is not, we will be better off.

      1. davenmidtown profile image87
        davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Amen!

      2. Naomi's Banner profile image77
        Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I like your answer 2besure.  We need to take a look at our own life and how we are living it not at what others are choosing to do unless it affects and infringment on our family member.  For example:  if someone chose to be a murderer and decided they were going to kill your child then you would want to put a stop to that right away.  If a pedofile who desires to have sex with children then we would not want to allow this person to be near our child or other children to protect them from this.
        It is none of our business how others choose to live their lives unless that choice infringes upon others.  There is no black and white here.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Your choice in religious beliefs infringes on my life. What say you?

          1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
            Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I say no choices I make infringe on you.  I have no contact with you whatsoever with the exception of Hubpages forums and that could not possibly affect you.  I just like you have a right to living my life as a Christian.  I am not religious I believe in God.  I do not practice rituals which is what I see as religion.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Your beliefs negatively affect my life, that is a fact.



              You are wrong, again. You are religious by definition because you believe in God.

              1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
                Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Can you explain how my beliefs could possibly affect your life?

              2. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                lol..
                and yet common sense does not tell you to stop showing up but rather to whine about how our beliefs amongst ourselves affect your life negatively.

                sorry to have pushed you in the door and kept you hostage lol
                such rubbish.
                no wonder you type of people cause wars and hatred with doctrines like that.

      3. Kiss andTales profile image21
        Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Great question ! I think to answer that is to first focus why you are a christain! and next , christain means to be christ like and that means work! we are not born to be this way, we must study Gods word and the key to this is applying what we learn! which we will be so busy trying to get it right ourselfs really no time to focus on sombody else,its like in school we have to focus on the Teacher cary our own work load and we will be graded on our performance.

    4. Doc Snow profile image97
      Doc Snowposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Of course.  Sexual orientation is pretty much independent of behavioral choice.

      That is, one can be attracted to same-sex partners and choose to abstain.  Some folks appear to do just that, and there's nothing hypocritical about it that I can see.

    5. Dave Mathews profile image60
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes definitely they can. Homosexuality is a sin, but Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin not just some sin but all sin.  The Bible teaches us that the only sin that God will never forgive is "Sinning against the Holy Spirit" and to do this, one would have to turn his back on God, denying God exists denying the power of forgiveness and redemtive power of Jesus and denying the Holy Spirit refusing to acknowledge his existance and his powers.

      Therefore we are taught to "Hate the sin but love the sinner."

    6. Rachelle Williams profile image94
      Rachelle Williamsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I am a lesbian.  I was raised in the great American South, in the heart of the Bible Belt.  I have a Southern Baptist mother, and a Catholic father.  During my younger years, I was taught that I am some disgusting "thing" who should either look forward to the fires of Hell and total damnation, or repress my "disgusting urges."  Even as a child, I never believed in any of this - it all seemed as nonsensical and unrealistic as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.    Today, I am an educated woman, who still believes exactly the same thing.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image21
        Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Dear Rachelle I understand what you are saying I myself was raised around two types of religion ! but rather they where right or wrong they still taught me there is a God that created all things that includes me! and that life is a gift from him not a right that we can add a day to our life .what we do and our choices can either please or not .you have feelings and so does he! I know nothing about you just what you have shared on hub ! but God knows and sees everything ! and the angles! yes conduct does matter to him! as so would you just do a sexaul act in front of your mother or your dad I would think not because of respect for them! well God almighty is our oldest parent in the world ,our true father! he knows more about you then your earthly parents! sex is a feeling , a gift from him to be used in the manor he gave it to us for! the bible is clear on that ,  he loves all his creations , but there are things we all can learn on how to better our relationship with him! a sex feeling comes and goes but a relationship with God can last forever and many gifts and blessings!

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Would you have sex in front of your parents? If not, then why would you have sex if "front" of God?

          The same applies, no matter to whom your partner may be.

    7. MissJamieD profile image79
      MissJamieDposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not homophobic in fact I have a hard time with this subject. I embrace other peoples differences as often as I can, but I'm also a christian and try to follow the bible as best I can. Please read about Soddom and Gommorrah, that may help answer your question...??? But as I said, I'm still on the fence about this because God wiped out an entire region of homosexuals in Soddom and Gommorrah, because of their "misdeeds".

      If someone out there has a better aspect of this, please share:)

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think the gay Jewish guy said something about this a few pages back.  Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality.

        1. MissJamieD profile image79
          MissJamieDposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I just watched a preacher on tv talking about this very subject. It was about the fact that God got rid of S and G because their actions were "unseemly". I can't be sure which bible he was reading from but it was on and ION channel on regular television, last weekend. The man's first name was Les, I can't remember his last name it was the first time I'd watched him. I'm just going by what I saw and heard.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            LOL, there are lots of things that are unseemly smile

            Don't go by what you see and hear from somebody... do the research yourself... from several different sources (especially contradicting sources) and then make a decision based on what you feel is right.

          2. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You may be referring to Les Feldick?   I've watched him several times over the years.  He's pretty good for the most part.  I don't think any of the tv preachers get everything right, just like almost no preacher gets everything right.
            But he was probably referring to several different sins, but including homosexuality.  Romans 1: 27 talks specifically about homosexual acts being "unseemly" (shameful), and those acts were the same acts which some of the men in Sodom did, which verifies the judgement against it also in Leviticus 18: 22.
            So yeah, some preachers (most all that I know of) do preach against all the sins.  I don't think Les Feldick was leaving out homosexuality;  I imagine he was just including all the sins in his message?   But the act of homosexuality is specifically called an abomination;  God specifically warns against it.  Maybe because it's such a hard temptation to overcome.   There are other sins that are hard to overcome too; actually all are tough.   I talked with a young man today in church who was trying to overcome the temptation of drugs.  He said it's the pattern of usage that's hard to deal with.  People set a pattern of wrong behavior and it seems impossible to extricate themselves from it....
            But he knows that with God all things are possible;  one day he will be free from his temptations.   The Bible tells us to keep our hearts and minds fixed on God, and He will help us.

            1. Mighty Mom profile image92
              Mighty Momposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, that's very true (about the pattern of behavior associated with drug addiction). Changing playgrounds and playmates is often much harder to break than the actual physical dependence.
              I wish your church friend success, Brenda.

              1. 0
                Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks.

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image59
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, the temptation to settle down in a stable relationship with the person you are in love with is extremely difficult to resist.  Thank God you and your cult are around to help gays resist that temptation.  Now they can be miserable and alone... just like you....er I mean your God says they should be.

    8. WD Curry lll profile image59
      WD Curry lllposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      In the first chapter Romans there is an explanation. There is what seems to be a scathing condemnation of homosexuality . . . then the writer asks, "Who are you to judge who do the very same things?" One may say "I don't participate in homosexual activity." Check out the list of condemnable activities and attitudes that follow. We are all guilty. I believe the message is . . . don't be a hater.

    9. wilmiers77 profile image60
      wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Gay people can be Christians. God loves everyone the same. Since gays are borned and have been being born for a very long time, I am sure that God does not corrupt. The homo genes are even inheritable. God does not roll dice. God have never said Oops!

      If God is for you; who can be against you.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh yes, physicists talk like that all the time. lol

    10. Dim Flaxenwick profile image59
      Dim Flaxenwickposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      l see no reason why a person with homosexual tendencies should not be as christian as a ´´straight´´ person.
      l think the problem arises when people confuse religions with the Bible.
      Most so called Christian religions  do not teach the pure techings from the bible.
        Fornication is regarded as a sin  in the bible, so a hetrosexual couple living together are sinning as much as a homosexual couple .
        This is not my personal opinion but facts as they are written in the bible.
      1st Corinthians chptr 6 vs  18.    1st Corinthians  chptr 10 vs 8

    11. Cresentmoon2007 profile image83
      Cresentmoon2007posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have a friend who lives the Christian life and she is a lesbian. I do not believe that it is a contradiction of any. If so then I myself am a MAJOR contradiction because I am a Christo Pagan

  2. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    grabs popcorn and takes a seat to watch the fireworks lol lol lol

    1. SimeyC profile image89
      SimeyCposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      popcorn? seriously? you know that Milk Duds are far better when being entertained! big_smile big_smile

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well, you get your milk duds and I'll eat my popcorn. Either way, it will be amusing. lol

      2. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No, no, no.  Goobers are much superior to either one. lol

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image59
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I thought you said you didn't eat popcorn...

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You know, Women have the right to change their minds whenever they choose, but when a Man does the same thing.....they get attacked for it. tongue

      2. davenmidtown profile image87
        davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What is this?  the cartoon before the movie?  get to the arguing, bickering and mindless banter... this is a forum that mentioned homesexuality and god... not a Rachael Ray re-run!  :-)

    3. rebekahELLE profile image90
      rebekahELLEposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      http://th15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/th_watchdrama8jm.gif 

      It's rather amazing what people choose to believe.

      And then there's the ? - what is a christian lifestyle.

      I think if people didn't try so hard to fit into a nice little box that we would more easily accept a person as another human being, and not a label. It's conditioning from early childhood.

  3. wilderness profile image95
    wildernessposted 5 years ago

    Based on some of the responses to those referenced threads it would seem that a Gay Christian would have to be hateful and bigoted towards themselves to be Christian.  Possible, I suppose, but not a very popular method of living.

    Nor could the Gay ever be accepted into that bigoted Christian society, but then why would anyone ever want to?

    On the other hand there also seem to be a majority of Christians that do not exhibit that same bigotry and hatred; those Christian societies would very likely welcome the Gay with open arms.

  4. 0
    Wentworth35posted 5 years ago

    When I think of an Anglican church, with its fabulous art, and flower displays, and of the clergy with their wonderful costumes covered in embroidery, I think it obvious that being gay would be a positive advantage.

    1. davenmidtown profile image87
      davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      are you suggesting that because the pope runs around in an gold embellished robe and a frumpy hat while carrying what could amount to a very ornate baton that he may be embracing homosexuality?

      1. 0
        Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Frumpy hat?  Don't you think it fabulous?  And think of the Sistine Chapel.  Any straighty would just use magnolia paint to cover the ceiling.

        1. davenmidtown profile image87
          davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It reminds me of a dinner napkin... his hat.... It seems very festive and all... but clearly it has its limitations as far as use... I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing while shopping at Macy's.

          I do see your point about the magnolia paint.  I wonder when it became the new black?

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Its a stupid hat only fit for wearing on halloween smile

            1. davenmidtown profile image87
              davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The hat is not thinking... therefor it can not be stupid.  The sorting hat from harry potter was thinking... but I would dare not call it stupid either.  I think the pope himself is unfortunate... but perhaps that is an example of how power binds you.  Did he rise to power for the power or for god?  Was his christian life spent seeking personal elevation in a worldly sense or was it more because he was/is a good christian?

              1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                i think to be pope you would have to be in it not because you are vicitim of the system but because you are behind the movement. In the pursuit of God, truth should rule, regardless, even in the face of death.

                Its a silly lookin hat then smile and what is that staff carryin all about?

                1. lizzieBoo profile image79
                  lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It's a Shepherds Crook.

  5. recommend1 profile image69
    recommend1posted 5 years ago

    Christians do live without any issue with gay people and in their company gay people can live with no issues.  Do not confuse the bigoted fools and simple minded creationists, who are the majority in these idiot threads, with actual christians.

    1. davenmidtown profile image87
      davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree... competely

    2. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting.
      Without any issue you say....
      Is that really Christian then?
      Is that really love?
      Just supposing there are no issues, what does that say for the level of concern that this christian has? Christians should pray for the faults of other christians at the very least. Christians should not bible bash at all.

      Does not love at least warn another when something is amiss?
      In the natural world people talk about their situations so should the christian be quiet because he has a stand on the topic?

      let us reason together with what you are saying.

      1. davenmidtown profile image87
        davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        and yet there is a long history of bashing... in the bible it talks about stoning and I remember an odd story about a women who was chosen by lottery to be stoned only to escape and then lose a child to stoning... or something like that.

      2. recommend1 profile image69
        recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Let us reason together why you are a homophobe and persecuting one segment of your god's creatures -  a segment that appears to have the grace and reasoning ability to forgive your affliction.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          interesting. I am not persecuting. The only thing i will persecute at this time is your ability to comprehend what you read

      3. davenmidtown profile image87
        davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        what is the definition of christian?  I think the answer changes depending on what sect of Christianity you ask.  Certainly the goals within christian sects are not identical.  For example compare Fred Phelps to billy graham and I think the division between Christians is plain despite the fact that there are similarities.

        1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
          Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Calling yourself a Christian and behaving as one are obviously two different things.  The Bible says to judge not lest you be judged in the same manner so Fred Phelps will have to answer to God for his behaviors as we all will.

      4. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If Gay Man asks your opinion of his lifestyle (as in this thread) then certainly love would require that you tell him the truth, perhaps with discussion and encouragement to change.

        If Gay Man is walking down the street holding hands with Gay Man #2 love dictates that you leave the sermon at home.  They have heard it 100 times already.  They don't need your words or hateful signs shoved in their face.  They don't need any attempts to legally force them to join your religious beliefs.  They merely need love and acceptance just as you and everyone else does.

        Unfortunately, what they actually get is the bigotry and hatred from thousands of the believers demanding that they change.  It is not from love, these actions, but from simply bigotry, maybe coupled with fear (we often fear the unknown or different).

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          +1

        2. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          agreed. they also get jeers from non believers. Up until recent years the whole world was socially and openly against it.
          whole world is figurative.

          Love is important
          With christianity on the threshold of evolving i have faith the amount of callousness will diminish.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You are mistaken.  Rome of 2000 years ago quite openly accepted homosexuality or its brother (pardon the pun) bisexuality.  And wasn't Sodom and Gomorrah destroy at partially because of the same thing?  It is probably true that the minor Jewish kingdom didn't like it but the rest of the world (Rome) did.

            More recently it has been only through the sexual fanaticism of Christianity that the custom changed, and as you point out even Christianity is evolving and may come to understand the concept of tolerance one day.

            1. livelonger profile image90
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed for homosexuality. Only the Christians think this, and it's not their parable.

              Jewish scripture is clear about this over and over and over again: the cities' citizens' sin was cruelty, very violent cruelty.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Well, well.  I learn something new every day.

                Although, you know, if it is in the holy book and repeated often enough then it HAS to be true...

                1. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yep, Christians and Muslims have been giving us their absolutely correct (and yet incongruous with each other) interpretations of Jewish scripture for centuries. And when you have a billion people each repeating something often enough...then your point is absolutely true. lol

              2. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                But not as cruel as the OT god I expect.

                1. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Tell us all about the OT god, earnest. Maybe you have some verses to share. King James Version, please.

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I have been posting them all over the religious forums for 3 years now, I reckon you must have seen the whole OT by now! lol

                2. brotheryochanan profile image60
                  brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Polly want a cracker smile

            2. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              yes i agree rome did accept it, at least i think so. What went on in parties was probably of no concern to the government. Certainly at special pagan times public orgies did occur behind closed doors i assume and maybe with a special permit.  In any case, these were pagan practices and not hebraic or jewish or christian.

              but the they i was talking about, was more people from more recent times, like the 18 and early 1900s.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That's what I was pointing out (except I'm not sure where the "closed doors" comes into play).

                As Christianity gained power over the people the sexual deviancy and repression of church leaders came into play at stronger and stronger levels.  It was reflected by church demands that anyone at the top of the pyramid (priests, nuns, etc.) be completely chaste and forego sex completely.  There were just too many top church figures that hated sex in any form whatsoever and that unnatural and sick attitude permeated the whole of society as time went on.

                1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                  brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  well that catholicism again, always doing things wrong.
                  Also, as the roman gods fell to the wayside, so did the sexual practices that went along with them, the same is true of paganism.
                  Even catholicism noticed that sexual practices were shunned by God, its not hidden, in fact quite obvious.

                  closed doors means not in the public streets.

                  It is estimated that the temple of aphrodite in rome had 500 prostitutes that went out nightly to acquire funds for the temple.

                2. lizzieBoo profile image79
                  lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That simply isn't true wilderness. Look at Renaissance art, it is full of sexuality and eroticism and passion.  The Church has never tried to subvert natural urges, rather to draw attention to what they are.
                  The pre-Christian Romans and the Greeks, wanted to create a society where sex was just for pleasure and could be separated from procreation. It wasn't a tolerant or a family centred policy, it was simply hedonism. The Greeks became so homocentric at one point that they were killing baby girls at birth since boys were very much more desirable.

                  1. recommend1 profile image69
                    recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Renaissance art is at the point where the 'church' started to disintegrate,

                    just pointing out that this is not good example for your argument.

    3. Kiss andTales profile image21
      Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      yes there are many people that are suppose to be Christ like but there actions in life reflect there heart! as none christains! it does not matter what I think or believe to many But that does not excuse people for disrespecting Almighty God the one who gave us life in the first place! and thats not babble!

    4. Friendlyword profile image59
      Friendlywordposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That was a beautiful thing for you to say. Now I get it. Good Cult followers let the dregs of society speak for them and act on their behalf. Still, some of you say you're Good Christians? How sweet and nice.

  6. 0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    I don't think homosexuals would feel comfortable living a hypocritical christian lifestyle, but they could certainly live a christian lifestyle without being hypocritical. There is a difference, as the dark side of  hypocritical christianity is shown repeatedly on these forums by the fundamentalists. There is nothing scriptural about bashing others for their choices. There is nothing godly about spreading hatred and judging the actions of others. A person who is homosexual has as much right to be a christian as every one else.

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      +1

    2. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      -2

  7. davenmidtown profile image87
    davenmidtownposted 5 years ago

    Darwin has already answered this question.....

  8. Bill Yovino profile image91
    Bill Yovinoposted 5 years ago

    Religion is a form of mental retardation, often seen in the delusional statements of "fact" espoused by clueless, narrow-minded, individuals and groups, whose sole purpose is the exclusion and oppression of others.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Spot on. smile

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't see anything more narrow minded that living a life dictated by the 5 senses.

        masons exclude others, frats at universities exclude others. I am sure you do your fair share of excluding others..
        so what brilliant point were you making again?

    2. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A gross and meaningless generalization. And insulting to those who exhibit or practice none of those things you mention.

      1. Bill Yovino profile image91
        Bill Yovinoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        All who are religious practice all of those things by definition. To believe what you believe is delusional, because it is pure fiction.  If you belong to an organized religion, you're part of an exclusive group that discriminates against people who don't believe the same fiction as you do, or who do believe it but practice in a slightly different way, or who don't fit into your ideal.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, that's not true.

          That might be your experience with certain fundamentalist branches of evangelical Christianity, but that's not true for all religions.

        2. MelissaBarrett profile image59
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Okay, tell me what I believe that is fiction... then tell me how I am delusional... then tell me how MY religion discriminates against... well anybody.  Then when you are done with that, tell me exactly what my ideal is.

          *sits back... grabs popcorn*  This should be interesting.

        3. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Should be a rule about double posting.. polly wanna cracker  smile

    3. 0
      Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree that religion can be seen as a form of delusion, and is often peopled by the narrow-minded, although this is not always the case.  However, religion does not have a monopoly on delusion.  Any belief system can be used as a means of oppression.  Only by avoiding extremes and trying to find some middle gound or by agreeing to disagree, can conflicts be avoided.  But this ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

    4. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No I'm sorry, I belong to no religion and I'm probably an atheist, however, I do believe in a greater good, hence my term 'probably'. Having said that, I have no problem with those who seek solace and gain comfort from their religion. I do have a problem with those that try to impose their religious values on me. Similarly, I have the same problem with those individuals that refer to religion as a form of mental retardation, that's unfair and not valid. Live and let  live.

      1. livelonger profile image90
        livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree.

        As hard as it is to believe for some, apparently, there are religions that do not proselytize, do not have a dogma (required belief), do not have an interest in thwarting scientific progress, and do not cause war. If someone takes issue with them, too, then they really are no better than the evangelicals they excoriate.

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, it's unfortunate and especially when you have been born into families that are mega religious, it can leave a lasting negative impression, particularly when your haven't conformed.(I've been there)  However, freedom of religion is as important as freedom of expression. It might not be my religion (obviously I don't have one) but I understand it's important to others, as long as they do not try to convert me, intrude into my life or make judgements regarding my 'non religious stance'. Than I will reciprocate, people should have the freedom to believe in whomever they choose and make their own decisions regarding spirituality and life.

          1. Bill Yovino profile image91
            Bill Yovinoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The problem is that people who profess to believe in "Freedom of Religion" really only believe in freedom for their religion. Look at the Pilgrims who came to America for religious freedom, only to try to force their religion on the natives under the pain of death. Think about The Inquisition, The Crusades, The Salem Witch Trials. Now you have these moron "Christians" at the funerals of fallen soldiers protesting with signs saying "God loves dead soldiers" and "God hates fags". Yes, good Christians one and all.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The one huge area where you are completely and utterly wrong in your post is this: Catholics did all that stuff you are complaining about and no one else, you cannot blame the baptists or pentecostals or even mormons for that matter.
              If you plan to debate history - get your facts right.
              You just rambled the same unthought misinformation that most people who have a hate on tend to ramble.
              The same people who love dead soldiers would be followers of christ the ones who carry signs about fags would be a different bunch because any good christ follower knows, practicing christians do not carry signs that say anything about hating anything. I suggest you dig deeper than just to peer at a picture or conjure up these images in your head.
              have a nice day

        2. MelissaBarrett profile image59
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          +1

          1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you Melissa smile

    5. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      your stance is a form of mental retardation, often seen in the delusion of your superiority complex - re your post. Your statement about our cluelessness and narrow-mindedness reflects your cluelessness and narrowmindedness. I do not like the way you exclude people who don't believe as you do and the way you bash them with your attitude should exclude you from acting the same way, but yet you do.. is that mote in your eye?

  9. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Anyone have a lesbian lizard?


    It just sounds good to say is all. smile


    Homophobes will find it easy to be homophobes if they read and follow the instructions in the "good book" of gods conditional "love"

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but not all Christians are homophobes, some are gay remember and not everyone interprets the 'good book' so called to their own design.

    2. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      whats with the homophobe talk... are you christophobes?
      Its easy to see why your stance causes so much hatred and wars.

      God says a lot of things are wrong, from lying to murder and inbetween, should we be silent about that also?  We do not need to be ignorantly labelled as any phobes just because you shallowly think it is a good dig, but thats just more misinformation again isn't it.
      Shall we become people pleasers and only say the nice things that tickle your ears? Shall we water down the message? Shall we pick and choose what to say? Being a christian costs something perhaps a reason for some peoples failure is it takes guts to deliver hard messages in kind ways.

      christophobes will find it easy to be christophobes for hundreds of reasons; loving their enemies might be one of them.

      back at ya
      stop causing wars please

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Top Ten time again already?

        10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

        9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

        8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

        7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

        6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

        5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

        4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering.  And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."


        3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

        2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers.  You consider that to be evidence that prayer works.  And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

        1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          cut and paste? I am insulted.
          Is that all your 30 yrs of just reading the bible amounts to?

          10) after reading about the 1,000s of others gods, and reading much information about my God. Yes i do. The facts are in, eternal life awaits and truth is tantamount. Obvious fakes are easy to spot.

          9) I dont feel dehumanized and insulted when science comes up with another popper. We did not come from dust, Adam came from dust the rest were born of a fleshly woman. Miss that in 30 yrs of sleep reading did ya?

          8) I don't actually believe in a triune God. Your cut and paste skills are way off the mark of truth, but that's okay huh. Just go ahead and say anything and expect us to wow at it. I did wow but not in the way you expected.

          7)  Egypt.. who ordered the first genocide.. pharaoh! This is why Moses was found in a basket in the Nile.. miss that too did ya, here comes the line again... payback is a b*tch.
                Genocide in joshua... when the 5 armies attacked the hebrew allies and the hebrews went to defend them....  I am not even going to get into this for length sake. But i just wanna say, its okay when others do horrible things to Gods people but not when Gods people do the same unto them. A bit biased dontcha think?

          6) bit foppish. The hindus worship things created. They have a big blue elephant god... no thanks but i prefer to worship what created nature not the thing (nature) that was created. And your myths are just hillarious.. i love the one where the one god sowed up his zygote child into his thigh for protection until it popped out one day and said, dada. lol
          You can't even compare the sad myths to the sober, meticulous intelligentsia of the bible.
          As to the rest of the statement.. lol  how can i ever think you were a christian at one time when you don't understand this basic but important truth of god in flesh, crucifixion and resurrection. I hope this is another one of your hurried and unthoughtful cut and paste jobs again.

          5) billions of years lol. There's a theory about the moon and its distance from our planet.. it moves a little away each year, increasing its orbit. Scientists calculated that if our earth were billions of years old the moon would be out by jupiter by now, but it isn't, the moon is fairly close. Some even go to say that the moon just arrived one day but the bible clearly states they were created in the same time span. Carbon dating relies on a speculation that it knows how much Co2 was in the air back then, even a small incorrect number throws off a lot of time. No i don't spend much time at all looking for loopholes, i have found all i need.. Did you ever find out what causes gravity? what its source is? or can you answer the tree question about how trees got seeds on them? did it come from nothing? was it just coincidence? Keen insight of evolution perhaps?

          4)  Again this must be a general cut and paste because if you had even bothered to understand what you were reading, you would have removed this section. I do not adhere to the hell theory and you should know that, this is how i resolve a God of love. He loves me and he will provide a home for me without the likes of you. lol NOW that's LOVE!

          3) the rolling around on the floor i am not fond of. There are some practices that i do not endorse: slain in the spirit, drunk in the spirit, and that the gift of tongues because somebody says to call it down. These may be practices of some pentecostal churches, but God gave us the ability to choose and i chose not to attend those types of churches. In my church the gifts are in operation but according to 1 cor 14:40 "let everything be done, decently and in order". smile

          2) You make yourself a laughingstock when you post rubbish like this. All those that have had answered prayer, raise your hands.. in my church, everyone would have raised hands. my hand is up.. how about yours.. no wonder you moan so loudly. i'm sorry to hear that. Wanna hear the reasons why prayer doesn't get answered again?
          1) prayed wrongly, 2) not obedient to God and are in the wilderness for a time 3) asked for something that will be detrimental but you can't see it, or you want it so baaaaad. 4) Its not Gods time.
          There's more ....
          The other reason is God did not answer prayer is that he did answer prayer: yes, no or not yet and ya just failed to perceive the no or not yet. We can never rely on physicality to uphold our spiritual positioning.
          yawn...

          and last and very least lol
          1) but its funny how silly i make all your posts look and what good answers i give to other posts.. this must be a general cut and paste or is this your sloppy interpretation of me as a christian.. tsk tsk.. judge not okay
          bye bye.
          I give your post a one out of 10 because it takes some skill to cut and paste lol

          don't even bother me earnest, as little as you say i know, you know even less.
          have a good sleep and a nice day

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            See now, there you go again.  "Scientists calculated that if our earth were billions of years old the moon would be out by jupiter by now,...". No they didn't some crackpot theist did, in an effort to discredit something he knew nothing about.

            You can calculate the figure yourself, just as I did.  It isn't hard, and the moons speed is readily available on the web, as is the distance to Jupiter.  Were you to question the insane arguments Christianity gives to discredit science you would know just how foolish this claim is, but you don't.  You simply accept anything from a fellow Christian as "gospel".

            Get out your calculator, Brother, and give it a shot.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              i used this link
              http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v14/n4/moon
              and some others, this is simple and short

              what links do you have?

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The one you indicate gives 4 cm per year movement.  4 cm/2.54 cm per inch/12 inches per foot/5280 feet per mile *1.4 billion years = 37,200 miles that the moon has moved away in the time the author indicates it would have taken if it was touching the earth at that time.  (math by calculator)

                http://www.universetoday.com/19426/dist … -the-moon/
                tells me that the moon is 238,857 miles from the earth.  That is about double the distance possible in 5 billion years.  The author can't add.

  10. davenmidtown profile image87
    davenmidtownposted 5 years ago

    I don't think that is true earnest... and this coming from a gay man.  You blame the book when perhaps it is the closed mind of a person who can not or will not see that has missed the lessons within the bible.  The glass that is half empty can also be half full.  We choose to believe what we want to and sometimes we wrap our beliefs around the shards of truth we may find in everyday life. I think the bible serves man as man intends to be served regardless of what is on the menu.

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      nicely said
      kudos

  11. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    It's not a matter of my choice at all or in any way.
    The matter is stated plainly.

      "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

    1. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Scholars have increasingly come to the conclusion that this was a directive against male temple prostitution, not a blanket condemnation against homosexuality. Well, in the original Hebrew, not in the Early Modern English translation.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It matters not who it was directed at, it is the statement itself which is neurotic and homophobic.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Can you not divorce things from their historical context?

          Or were people 3000 years ago supposed to be acting like you act today?

          No one except the fundies is saying that they are templates for modern behavior.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That is not the point.

            Why would a god or any other potent entity not know right from wrong?

            If you put a person of average intelligence in that time, they would not be stupid enough to use threats of hell death and brimstone to help people understand any truth would they?
            Why not? Because it is patently wrong!

            The biblical god is a nasty psychopathic lunatic just as it is in the quoran.

            It takes a certain type of blindness not to see that.


            "I'm going to teach you all how to live by killing all of you" does not seem like a very sophisticated approach to teaching to me.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Before I respond... Remember I have dimples... you can't use exclamation points at me.

              The time that the bible was written was quite a bit different from today.  Humans have evolved to a place that we are generally reasonable.  Physical violence-while still common today-bore absolutely no stigma of socially unacceptable during that time period.  Violence was just how you got things done.

              The Bible reflects that, just as any work from the time period would. 

              After my own bout of research on the whole "man laying with man as with a woman" stuff (which includes a conversation with a pretty progressive catholic priest and an absolutely inflexible Rabbi) I have to go will L.L. on the interpretation.

              Even if I didn't though, I would just ignore that passage in the Bible... *shrugs*  I can do that though, because I'm not a real Christian.

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It is not the humans we are talking about here though is it? It's supposed to be an all knowing god fer gawds sake!
                Sorry about the exclamation marks!

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                  MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You have desecrated the sanctity of the dimples...for that I curse you to a life time of loosing hubcaps in potholes.

                  I look at the God thing this way.  Just cause he/she/it/they are omnipotent doesn't mean he will do sod all about the stupidity that comes out of his follower's mouths.  If someone wants to write it down, so be it.

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    We are talking the holy book itself here, and the basis of most religious belief!

                2. brotheryochanan profile image60
                  brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  God is all knowing. T
                  One needs to look at the beginning of the chapter to find out what Gods directives were: to separate His people from molech. Not to define the holy sanctuary with sinful people. To stop false beliefs. etc.

                  he nations all around worshiped gods, most of those gods were fertility gods. Orgies occurred and because of the unwanted pregnancies that abounded because of unsafe sex practices they sacrificed babies, a kind of abortion if you will, but done after birth because they didn't know how get inside and scape the egg off the womb.
                  What you fail to perceive and i hope through ignorance and not just willfully is that God did not want his people to do this sort of thing. It's meant as a deterrent. Its not like people were being killed every day because they were Unheterosexual.
                  But you have heard all this before and hatred is all you have left and it comforts you in your time of irreligiousness.
                  so have a nice day

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't do hate... a worthless primitive emotion that is fear based and relies on people spreading god's word as you do for it's survival.

                    Scared little people who pass responsibility for their actions on to an invisible mythical god are the hate experts around here.

                    All I ever do is quote the bible and you spend all your efforts trying to deny what the words actually say, and reinterpret them to be unrecognisable. lol

      2. AEvans profile image71
        AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with your response. The passage always appears to be taken out of context and misinterpreted.

      3. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'd like to see proof of that please. The begining of the chapter seems more general to me than just temple prostitution, which i think occurred much later in hebrew history.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          http://home.earthlink.net/~ecorebbe/id18.html

          "Again, according to the rabbi and Bible scholar, Professor Jacob Milgrom, the prestigious translator and commentator of the scholarly Anchor Bible Series Translation of the Book of Leviticus, and the Jewish Publication Society Commentary on the Book of Numbers; the ORIGINAL Hebrew Bible Leviticus texts are referring to NON-ISRAELITE, RELIGIOUS cultic ritual sexual and sexual abuse practices that Israelites were not to imitate when they entered into the Land of Israel. It has nothing at all to do with what we today term as being homosexuality per se, but with cultic religious fertility rituals."

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks for your response. I need time to dissect it. smile

          2. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have found much wrongness.
            "Rabbi Jacob Milgrom says that, YES, the Bible prohibits homosexual behavior. (okay it does prohibit this kind of behavior - good to know)

            However, only in the land of Israel
            (all of Gods laws apply to israel - DUH)

            and only for males,
            (this is inconsistent with bible common sense - why not women too? its the act not the gender that makes it unholy)

            and, possibly, only in certain inter family relationships"
            (possible and only... hmmm.. that would be inconsistent also, although family relationships are a more obvious no no due to dna impurity farther away from the garden, I would venture that ONLY is out of biblical context - its seems to me like this is a guess)

            Any references to Talmud I ignore. Talmud is a pile of rubbish. To read the talmud is to unread the bible. Torah is well accepted, Talmud, now there is a book written by men.

            If we look at the wrongful act of the males certainly we must assume with all proper context this act applies to the female. To allow lesbianism is too ignore the following:
                The importance of the hymen. Recall that virginity was of tantamount importance to the Hebrews and Jewish cultures. Marriages would be disallowed if there was no presence of virginity.

            A Quote from your link:
            "Thus, the rabbis of the Talmud put fences around the Torah "Voice of God" to negate the Capital punishment that the Torah requires.
            However, the anonymous redactor of this Mishnah in the Talmud asks: "Then why was it written?"
            The Talmud responds: "So that people might study it (wrestle with it), and receive reward for their efforts.

            This is why I disclaim the talmuds accuracy or God inspiration. God asks that people study to learn and grow not to recieve a reward for studying a bad thing. I have been accused of over thinking bible scripture and talmud is clearly an obvious case of just that very thing

            I really don't want to go further for lengths sake. The link did not convince me, it seemed more like an intentional justifcation toward a self serving, not God serving, end.

            1. livelonger profile image90
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, that's right, the Talmud was written by men. We do not consider anyone to be G-dly except G-d.

              Torah is in man's hands (Deut 30:12) and a good thing because it is incomplete. For example, when describing kashrut in Torah, it says "you will kill the animal in the way I told you." Where?! There are no specific rules in the Written Law, so it was captured in the Oral Law, which religious Jews believe was passed to Moses at Sinai along with the Written Law. The Talmud captures that.

              You will find Jews who do not respect the Talmud, either. They're called Karaites and Samaritans and fewer than 50,000 live on the planet. Even Hitler didn't consider them Jews.

  12. davenmidtown profile image87
    davenmidtownposted 5 years ago

    and yet god would have spared both Sodam and Gomorrah if he found but ten righteous people....

  13. davenmidtown profile image87
    davenmidtownposted 5 years ago

    what is that in reference to Holly?

  14. Hollie Thomas profile image60
    Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago

    Earnest, I had the 'Good book' rammed down my throat from my catholic grandparents, the truth is they weren't really that religious-only when making judgements regarding others then believe me there was a lot of hell fire and damnation going on. But, today, at least hopefully, there's a new generation of christians, not of the hell fire and damnation kind but maybe a bit more thoughtful. I do not have a religion but maybe for those who do have faith, good can come from it if they have realized that they are not god and do not have the right to impose their view on others. I think it was Obama who said, or maybe it was his mum, that every religion has something beautiful to offer. Maybe there's something in that.

  15. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    I know the shift and the origins, as I do with this little piece of biblical love.

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wow!  I didn't know that all gays break their promises and are unforgiving.  Guess I'll have to be more careful around them.

      What a crock!  How anyone can read this garbage and swallow it whole is completely beyond me. sad

      1. livelonger profile image90
        livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well, that was Paul speaking, not Jesus. (Not apologizing for it; I'm not even a Christian)

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          and then away we go on the christian cycle about Paul. smile


          I don't know that I want to go through that again. smile

          1. livelonger profile image90
            livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I couldn't possibly care less about it myself, but just setting the record straight. Most Christians would probably attribute that quote to Jesus.

    2. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      and whats wrong with the statement? Do you have a full comprehension of the sexual depravity occurring in rome at that time? I don't think you do but you judge as if you have. I think paul nails it on the head. the death penalty he is referring to is the lake of fire, not attaining to any other resurrection than the resurrection of the damned.
      We often forget that these people saw a resurrected christ, they were willing to be killed for their beliefs. They endured persecution such as you or I have never faced and why, because they were persuaded and eye witnesses of a resurrected christ, so it just makes sense to say it like it is.

  16. Hollie Thomas profile image60
    Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago

    Now I have to admit, that I can see where Brenda gets it from.

  17. recommend1 profile image69
    recommend1posted 5 years ago

    Jamey Rodemeyer is the latest in a string of suicides by young Americans, abused or ridiculed because of their sexuality.

    The teenager said he had suffered at the hands of homophobic bullies for months and had undergone counselling.    . . . .   "People would just keep sending me hate, telling me that gay people go to hell," he said in the recording.


    This is the end result of religious homophobia.  It is about time that HP classified homophobic rants as hate speech.

    1. Bill Yovino profile image91
      Bill Yovinoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hear Hear!

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        and again.
        Hear! Hear!

    2. Naomi's Banner profile image77
      Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If they do that then they will have to classify all your posts as hate speech also as your comments about Christians could also cause Christian children to do the same thing.

      1. recommend1 profile image69
        recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Christian children have been indoctrinated with the nonsense and have a choice to reject it - being gay is just part of what a person 'is' and cannot be rejected, any more than you can reject being female.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          there are lots of things that people 'are' that can be changed. I personally don't agree with the excuse, "born that way". In todays society, TV - the heathens bible - promotes everything from lying to stealing to same gender marriages, to homosexuality to even, killing - if the justification is correct.
          So with this kind of inculcation, I present that alternate lifestyles and everything else purported by TV is a kind of hypnosis - you can do it if you want, you can do it if you want - look deeply at the tube... isn't this nice...

          When in fact, like all other sins, it is fraught with obstacles, dilemmas, hurts and bad repercussions, like no grandchildren of blood heritage for one.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The heathen's Bible? Where do you come up with this stuff? Television doesn't promote lying, stealing and murder. What kind of shows are you watching up there in Canada?

            Born that way is not an excuse. It is a fact of life for some. And the only people that it could reasonably be argued as being hypnotized are those indoctrinated into fundamentalist religions who would be irrational enough to believe that nonsense you just posted.

  18. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    C'mon guys! It is a pile of malarkey that people hang their whole lives on, and claimed to be inspired by your god.
    You guys walk away from the basis of your belief when it suits you! lol

    1. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That was the basis of your belief.

      I thought you weren't an evangelical anymore? Funny how hard it is to quit that...

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Rubbish.

        Gotta go personal again do we?

        You should strengthen your argument instead of casting aspersions, you would be a better person for it.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "Casting aspersions"? This from the guy who has either said or applauded others who have said that religious people are psychotic, neurotic, stupid, etc.

          All I said is that you're still an evangelical. I'm basing that on a very consistent pattern of behavior.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            There ya go again. smile

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              those blinders wont come off will they?

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                A religious extremist talking about someone else having blinders on is very amusing, but then I would expect that by now wouldn't I? lol

                1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                  brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  oh goodie!!! i am an extremist...

                  are you an atheist extremist?
                  Didn't notice that did ya.. those darn blinders

                  really who knows what you would expect.. we know what you don't expect..
                  please stop causing wars and hatred, cobbie... buy yerself a nice cabin in the woods and retire, do some gardening smile

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Like to take an online vote as to who is the extremist cobblers?

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image59
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No actually Earnest, my belief system is hung on something entirely different.  It's a distinction that makes it hard to discuss with extremists on both sides of the fence. 

      And I haven't walked away from anything... my entire religion is based on questioning my own beliefs and adjusting when something resonates within me.  I laugh when people accuse me of "cherry-picking" because they fail to see that THAT is the point.  I think it is ironic when an atheist jumps me for not sticking to the letter of Christianity (if there is such a thing).  It's almost like they are saying "You have to believe this so I can tell you that you are wrong"

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No, I'm perfectly OK with you not believing the fundy crud in the bible, but it makes me wonder why you believe any of it.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          *smiles* See that would be a conversation that would be pretty cool to have with you.  If you could drop the idea that all Christians murder puppies and drink kitten blood wink

          Let's just say I buy into the hippy crap.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Like all or at least most of us, I have daily contact with believers even in my own family. I helped out at the Anglican church for many years, I have two mates who are ministers of the cloth, and have friends here on hubpages who are christians.

            I don't think many of them are anything except misguided. and if they don't use the internet to flog their beliefs I don't respond for the main part.

            I buy in to a lot of the hippy crap as well. smile

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I love me some atheists too.  We have quite a few atheists that come to my church, but there is one couple in particular that give the best debates ever.  The older gentleman of the couple was raised catholic and despises all things catholic, the younger guy was raised Baptist and is likewise against that religion.  Yet they can have respectful debates with the mishmash of other faiths in my church without resulting in name calling and pettiness.  After years of that kind of environment, I find it strange to deal with others that can't do the same... even if it is just an internet forum.

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I have time to discuss religion with reasonable people, I just don't find religion reasonable. smile

              2. Bill Yovino profile image91
                Bill Yovinoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The problem as I see it, is that many Christians (especially those who profess to be very religious) are some of the least Christ-like people I know. If they spent more time acting like Christ and less time trying to force their will on people, the world would be a much better place.

                Here's a non-sectarian prayer: Oh God, please protect me from your followers.

            2. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              got an email to back that up lol

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What are you on about now?

  19. holdenh13 profile image77
    holdenh13posted 5 years ago

    Homosexuality is strictly forbidden, so the answer is "no."  God designed male and female the way they are to reproduce and share marriage.  Their parts fit together just perfectly. 

    Homosexuality is fornication to Him.  God still loves homosexual people but he does not love the sin and cannot look upon it.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Your god told you that did he? Which god would that be again? smile

      1. holdenh13 profile image77
        holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well, there is only one God so it must be that one.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Come on now - there are at least 10,000 more Gods out there floating around, or whatever they do.  And we know this to be absolutely true exactly (exactly, mind you) the same way you know about your one.

          1. holdenh13 profile image77
            holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm sorry if you feel that way.  I only came here to answer a simple question and not to debate whether or not God exists.

            I will say this, though.  The Bible is the only book that makes sense historically, logically, and spiritually.  I believe in the God of the Bible, and why that is any of your concern boggles me.  Don't knock the Bible until you've read it and understand who God truly is.  If you would like to further discuss the issue, please contact me privately.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Calm down - I don't mean to ruffle feathers.  Or perhaps I did, in a way - you made a statement of fact that is actually only conjecture and should be ready to back it up.  Perhaps another time.

              I will say this, though.  The bible is a book that is chock full of historical lies and falsehoods, continuously contradicts itself logically and offers spirituality only to those willing and able to set aside reason and depend on their emotional side to produce Truth.  You should not accept it until you have studied and questioned every word, every verse and every chapter for truth and honesty.  It was written and compiled by men who had a very definite axe to grind and it clearly shows that bias.

              I see that you are pretty new to HP and this is your first foray into the morass of the religion forum.  Welcome to HP - it looks like you've made a good start with several hubs.  And I predict that you will either grow a thick skin of learn to ignore most of this particular forum.  It can get a little rowdy! smile

              It's past my bedtime - you have a good night - perhaps we'll meet again.

              1. holdenh13 profile image77
                holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Now, I have the last word.

                1. recommend1 profile image69
                  recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You will never get the last homophobic word in these threads - there are too many normal people here who do not believe that most of the so-called christians here have any idea what they are talking about even from their own book.

                  The same people mostly resent our good gay friends on this site being harassed and vilified by bigoted morons.

                  You seem like a nice enough guy, and I doubt if you really want to join the ranks of our bigots and homophobes.

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    we are not harassing a specific group. The question was asked the overall answer that is acceptable is:
                    Yes its wrong, God can change ya, we wish you well, God bless ya.

                    That is not harassment, just biblical christian truth.

                    If the post were about lying or stealing we would say:
                    Yes it is wrong, God can change ya, we wish you well, God bless ya.

                    You need to get your head out of that dark place it is in and try comprehending what is being said, not reading the posts like you are staring into headlights

              2. holdenh13 profile image77
                holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                With all the uncalled for scoffing you've got going on here, you seem really anxious to prove something to yourself rather than anyone else. 

                I'm here for you, buddy.  smile

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                  MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh... one of those.  Good luck, you'll fit in just fine.

                2. Randy Godwin profile image94
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No, the scoffing was indeed called for, holden.  You called for it yourself by stating unprovable "facts."  The book was written by men, not gods.  Check out for yourself where it actually came from instead of believing hearsay.  Indoctrinated at a young age were you?  smile

                  1. Jerami profile image78
                    Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    a real snake cain't wanta be a teady bear  and really be one.

                  2. holdenh13 profile image77
                    holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The guy asked if you can be a homosexual and live a CHRISTIAN lifestyle.  If he had asked if you can be a homosexual and live an atheist lifestyle, it would have been a different case and I wouldn't have even answered.  So, since the Bible says followers of Christ should not be a homosexual, is my answer not reasonable (regardless of whether you are a Christian or not). 

                    2+2=4
                    CHRISTIANS + homosexuality = sin
                    Do I really need to prove myself?  The question involves a framework of Christianity, thus I answered accordingly.  Just trying to stay relevant.

                    Again, I didn't come to debate whether God exists but to answer a question.  Yes, I am newer to Hubpages and I didn't realize there would be that many trolls lurking around waiting to attack me for my personal beliefs which really is none of their business. 

                    I guess I realize now that there are a few people around here who are passionate about not being religious and think it is there duty to tell the whole world why they are better than everyone else and how everyone else is so naive for believing in God.  Sorry if I did not pay enough credence to your religion.  Atheism, is it?  Or science?  What do you call it?

                    It's foolish and sad...very sad.
                    And, no, I'm not sad.  I live a very happy life.

                    But, for now, I really am finished with this thread.  And I will stress once again that...::drum roll::...Homosexuals cannot live a Christian lifestyle because homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle.  Very simple.

          2. MelissaBarrett profile image59
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            IMHO, they were all the same God.  As all future Gods will be the same God.  Christianity doesn't have any special ownership of a supreme diety.  The name doesn't really matter.  If there is a supreme diety, what we call it is really not that important.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If they are all the same god, how come the number of heads, arms and legs vary so much?

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The almighty moves very fast... you know how tracers can be misleading.

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  As good an explanation as I've seen so far. smile

            2. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Why would you insist there is only one?  A species with only one member is a huge contradiction in our experience - why complicate matters already unbelievable by adding one more impossibility?

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I don't insist on one, most of the time I say he/she/it/they... I just let it go for brevity.  What ever the higher, if there is a higher, is has and will always be. 

                We just name it for ease of conversation.

                1. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  My bad.  I understood your post to say that all gods, past and future, are actually one, they just have different names.  It seemed a little odd when some groups of people believe in multiple Gods all at the same time with multiple personalities and attributes.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That's kinda what I meant.  I have no idea what form the higher whatever takes, whether it be female, male, or committee.

                    I believe that whatever it is, if it is, is the same diety that every religion has ever worshiped ever.  Humans call it different names, give it different appearances, or worship different aspects of it... but if there is one ultimate power, it is the same ultimate power regardless.

            3. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks BOB for that report smile

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Stop flirting ... you so aren't my type.

            4. Kiss andTales profile image21
              Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              the bible clearly states about names being written down in the book of life! to him yes names mean something, like your name Melissa would Id you from me Why becuase  A HISTORY ABOUT Melissa Barrett. choices tell who you are! IN HEBREW and GREEK TELLS us God almighty name. WHO he really is by name. OUR CREATOR BY NAME CAN BE FOUND over 6,820.00, a few times in King james version, Psalms 83;18 and exodus 6;2 to start and others, many bibles took his name out for evil reasons to be truefull yes who you worship and pray to does matter! the story of isreal tells  the history of this being true !there are many Gods many customs. a lot of worship going to satan under many titled names! It is up to us tp get it right in order for us to be pleasing to our heavenly Father! and that is know what his name means too , God is a title like lord and man.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                LMAO, oh please.  I go by so many names that I've lost count... I answer to all of them and none of them change who I am.

                I still think you are an atheist's sock puppet.

  20. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16

    God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no attempt at justification.  This act of favoritism led to Abel’s death.  Genesis 4:3-5

    Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.

    God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master though she does not want to.  Genesis 16:7-9

    Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.

    Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him.  How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord.  Genesis 38:7

    Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.

    1. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I can almost hear you thumping it on your palm...all the way from here... tongue

      I'm supposed to scream "testify!" or "praise the lawd!" when you witness, right? (Sorry I don't understand the protocol you like to follow)

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No thumping. I don't do thumping. Just giving you some words from your good book to consider if you reckon these are the words that a god would want his disciples to include in the good book of love and truth. smile

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You keep on using the language of evangelicals. Not my thing, but I'm sure Brenda and other kindred spirits get you completely. tongue

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe  ....    maybe not ?

          2. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You mean I keep quoting from your book? smile

            1. livelonger profile image90
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No, sorry.

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The Tora right?

                1. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You're funny, earnest. You're not the first evangelical to give Jewish scripture an Anglo patina. tongue

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    When did I get to be an evangelical? You are the one who is funny.
                    What you mean is I should go away and shut up because I disagree with you. smile

    2. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry for interupting  I have a little while on here and just wanted to say Hay to earnest.

         That was a good smoke and mirors on your chosen scripture.
         And the implied ...? ,  feelings ??
        It Ain't that hard to explain;  most of it is mis interpretetion  or total mis understanding of what is being pointed at; when these conversations took place, and somebody else wrote it down  ???  As best as they understood it   
         

          And NOW you are better at twisting the message as much as  THEN fundamialist Christians are.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image94
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Jerami!  smile

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          back atcha you old snake.   ho  ho

      2. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Jerami! smile
        I would probably be familiar with the usual arguments Jerami. smile
        On almost every ocassion I quote directly from the bible, I am not in the habit of twisting anything, I simply quote what is written exactly as it is in the bible or quoran with very few exceptions, and then I quote the source. smile
        I have no intention to lie or misinform, that is not my nature as you should be able to readily discern. smile

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I know that and I know that you are an honerable man...   really !

              You say what you think ! as it should be.

              But what I said is true, and  meant in the kindest way.

    3. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16
      COMPLETELY WRONG.
      Genesis 3:16   Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
      This is not God commanding a hurt on womens child birthing abilities but it is because there was no birthing in the garden and since there is a 'multiplying' after the garden, this is how it will happen. There will just be biologically, hurtin with the child bearing process because of the way the human anatomy is constructed rather than God receiving selfish pleasure.

      God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no attempt at justification.  This act of favoritism led to Abel’s death.  Genesis 4:3-5
      NO act of favoritism. If we study the lives of cain and abel we see marked difference. Abel does things right, cain does things wrong.
      Genesis 4:7   If thou does well, shall you not be accepted? and if thou does not well, sin lies at the door.
      I must ask you; HOW did GOD cause sibling rivalry? To me this is a simple portrait of abel doing right and cain doing wrong.

      Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.
      YEP Do you want to know why again smile

      God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master though she does not want to.  Genesis 16:7-9
      AND? What was wrong with that? God said go back AND I shall bless you, etc.. there is no more mention of how sarai treated hagar after she went back, the running away probably brought the scenario to a head and was dealt with in a godly fashion. Remember, abraham said, do as seems well with you (to sarai) and probably he realized sarai was being a jealous b*tch to hagar by the time she got back that all was well. Also notice, hagar had no where to go,
      Genesis 16:8   And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence came thou? and whither wilt thou go? So by sending her back to a probably harmonious situation, God saved hagar a death in the wilderness.

      Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.
      YEP, but not simply because they were homosexual. This is mainly thought of because of the name, sodom - sodomy.. but God said:
      Genesis 18:32   And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. (we are talking about righteous people [Gen 18:24] and that accounts for more than just homosexuality)
      ALTHOUGH there is mention of what some wicked people wanted to do to the "new guys in town", so yes homosexuality is strongly implied, but i reiterate, not just because of there were more accusing unrighteousness involved in that decision.

      Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him.  How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord.  Genesis 38:7
      IT DOESN'T say that judah married, but went into - perhaps a modern day equal of 'living together' - first wickedness - judah found a caananite - the second wickedness - Er came from this wicked union, and thats the reason. SOOOOO the bible does tell the wickedness:
      1) interracial marriage
      2) therefore impure blood line
      3) mixed heritage (conflicts of cultures)
      4) God has always said never to marry other nations
      So regardless of the bible mentioning specifically what the problem was here, we know that this union was marred, forbidden from the get go. Further we can speculate that because of the wrongness about the marriage that ER turned out to be a person not following God. The rest of the children did not do so well either, and pharez ending up being a king of persia.

      Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.
      NOT TRUE.. god murdered Onan for not fulfilling his duty to his brother. Recall:
      Matthew 22:24   Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

      Man, you suck at this. lol  Still not had a glove laid on ya, brother cobbie?

  21. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    That is soooo much trouble to go to brothery you give yourself away like a small child who tells you he didn't take the sweets then proceeds to eat them in front of you!

    Still smarting about other myths I see! boy it's easy to get up your nose.

    Your wild conjecture and word soup won't cut it with anyone but another fundy, but that's OK, the top ten will always be on the net ready to cut and paste the next time some reality becomes imperative after you jump off the religious cliff the next time. smile. lol

  22. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    What's WRONG with it???????????????????

    OK, it's all about love OK? lol lol lol
    What a massively neurotic response your god has to humans!
    lol

  23. Disturbia profile image60
    Disturbiaposted 5 years ago

    I think it depends on how narrowly one defines "a christian lifestyle."  To those with closed minds who walk a narrow path, probably not. But I don't see any reason why gays can't live by christian principles.

    1. holdenh13 profile image77
      holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But if Christian principles say homosexuality is wrong and you are a homosexual, are you not rejecting the principles or at least part of them?  I'm not trying to single out homosexuality here; this applies to anything which is a sin (lying, cheating, murder, etc.).  If you openly live a sinful lifestyle (as defined by what is listed as sin in the Bible), then that is the exact opposite of what living a Christian lifestyle stands for (trying to be like Christ, aka following ALL the principles and rejecting sin).  Sure, they could try to live by Christian principles partly, but the Bible is explicit about how that will be dealt with.

      If I play poker, I have to play by the rules.  I guess I could make up my own rules if I wanted.  Or, I could even follow half of them and play the rest of the game as I see fit.  But, would I be able to qualify for tournament poker play?  Would I be able to win a prize playing like that?  You play by the rulebook and not by how you feel about things. 

      If you're going to talk about a Christian lifestyle and what is scriptural, then you should know what the Bible actually says. 

      Again, no hate to homosexuals.  I love you guys but I don't agree with your lifestyle because I am trying to be a Christian.  Do I fail?  Yes.  Do I sin?  Yes.  But I choose whether I want to avoid making sin a regular part of my life or whether I want to try and be like Christ and heed to the calling.

      1. livelonger profile image90
        livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What about people who have divorced and remarried? Can you be remarried and live a Christian lifestyle?

        I'm betting you'll find many, many more Christians (almost all Protestants) who will say "yes" despite the very clear prohibition coming straight out of Jesus's mouth (several times).

        1. holdenh13 profile image77
          holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Divorce isn't as clear a topic as it seems considering how divorce under mosaic law is settled a little differently and was a common practice back then.  There is some confusion about what Jesus says when he refers back to the law.

          I can't give you a definite.  But I will say that God is a just judge.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm sure if there is a God, he is a great judge.  People, however, suck at it.  So maybe everyone should just sit back and let the big guy do his job without gossiping like old men over coffee about what his decision might be.

          2. DoubleScorpion profile image86
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Matthew 5:23
            But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

            Matthew 19:8,9
            Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

            Mark 10:5-12
            5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied.
            6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’a
            7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
            8 and the two will become one flesh.’c So they are no longer two, but one. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
            10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
            12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

            Seems pretty clear to me. Not confusing at all.

            1. holdenh13 profile image77
              holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If you use a standard King James Version of the Bible, the word divorce used in actually "put away" in several instances, and the phrase "put away" is entirely different from divorce.  I did a study on this a while back. 

              Online, you will find sources saying three different things.  Some take these verses to mean that divorce is not okay at all.  Some take these verses to mean that divorce is okay if your spouse cheats on you but that the cheating spouse can never remarry.  Others will say that God says divorce is actually okay using the same scriptures.  I only look at these sources to see what others and scholars have to say about it.  Ultimately, I have to study for myself to find out the truth, but this is a tough one for me.

              What's important is that you go back to the original Greek and Hebrew words that are being used there to understand their meaning.  I strongly recommend a study on this to anyone.  It's a really interesting read. 

              The difference between "putteth away" and "divorce" is what makes the big difference in this issue.  Many people using an NIV translation will read Malachi 2:16 as "I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Isreal" while those using a KJV while read "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away."  The keywords there have entirely different meanings.

              Interesting read. smile

              All I know is that I have no plans of every getting a divorce.  If it's territory I'm not even sure about, then I'm not going to walk the thin line.  I also hope God forgives those who get a divorce and remarry.  God is a just judge, though, and whatever he says goes.

              1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The Greek word for divorce is "apolusasa" which means: to set free, release
                Taken from the words: "apo" meaning: from, away from
                and "luó" meaning: to loose, to release, to dissolve

                The Hebrew word for divorce is "ke·ri·tu·tei·ha" which means: divorcement
                Taken from the word: "karath" meaning: to cut off, cut down

                Oh, did I mention I have a PHD in Biblical Studies?

                And you might want to research how the 1611 KJV bible came about. It was taken from many sources including the latin vulgate and other bibles.

                1. holdenh13 profile image77
                  holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It's good to see that there are others out there who are knowledgeable about the Bible also.  It appears we are on the same side, then.  I disdain divorce and have witnessed firsthand how it destroys families.  I don't see why God would ever support a divorce.  But...

                  You must admit that there are many ways to look at the verses, no?

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    From the OT...possibly yes. From the NT and the "sayings" of Jesus...no. Jesus went so far as to say, that even lusting after a woman who is not one's wife is guilty of adultery. Divorced or not...

          3. livelonger profile image90
            livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sounds like a double standard to me.

            Jesus said nothing at all about homosexuality, but condemned divorce and remarriage - saying that living in a second marriage is adultery - no less than 3 times in the Bible.

            But you say it's "not clear" and you "can't give a definite"...unlike with homosexuality, in which case you're absolutely sure it's irreconcilable with a Christian lifestyle.

            You do understand that self-serving absurdities like this is why so many people have a low opinion of Christians, right?

            1. holdenh13 profile image77
              holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Homosexuality is why the so famous Sodom and Gomorrah incident in the Old Testament happened.  The nature of God never changes.  The apostles condemn sexuality in the Bible plenty of times.  The Bible is written by God and not men; therefore, God / Jesus / the Holy Spirit all hate homosexuality.  It is a sin.

              If anything, this is only proving my case.

              Divorce was allowed under the Old Testament law as long as a man wrote his wife a certificate of divorce before putting her away.  Again, divorce was, though not encouraged, allowed.  The mosaic law gives a specific contingency law on how to deal with a divorce in the event it happened.  And as stated before, the nature of God doesn't change.  But in the New Testament, we have scriptures that refer to divorce and putting away which can be taken out of context if you don't understand the history behind it.  So yes, it's a little bit confusing.

              I don't live by a double standard.  I never claimed to be a perfect Christian either.  I just try to study the Bible and listen to what God says.  I may not have the answer to every question about the Bible, but I do know quite a bit and am trying to do what is right.  If you think what I'm saying is self-serving, then go ahead.  But I don't see how my decision to not go out and party, get drunk, have sex before marriage, and all kinds of other sin (aka worldly fun) is in any way self-serving.

              1. livelonger profile image90
                livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Unreal. Jewish sources point to the real reason Sodom & Gomorrah fell: abject cruelty to other people. The "incident" you're talking about involved the men wanting to *rape* the angels. How you think Sodom & Gomorrah would've been just fine with G-d had they simply raped women instead is beyond me. But that's how Christians have twisted Jewish, and, as they've done time and time and time again, drawn the wrong conclusion, and putting words in G-d's mouth.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah#Jewish

                1. holdenh13 profile image77
                  holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Jude 7 - "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

                  I choose God as my trusted source over Wikipedia any day.  In fact, I choose what God has written in the collection of documents that is what we now know as the "Bible" over any source.  Why would Jude bother singling out "fornication" if it wasn't a big problem?

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Jude also references the book of Enoch. Have you ever read that text and agree with it. It seems that Jude did.

                  2. livelonger profile image90
                    livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Did King James of England write the Bible? Wasn't aware he was G-d all this time. Jesus spoke Middle English and had long, light brown straight hair and blue eyes, too, right?

                    You should probably go back to the original Greek. What does it say then?

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So, you lie, cheat and murder (as defined by what is listed as sin in the Bible) and avoid doing it all the time because you want to be like Christ?

        But, if a homosexual does not lie, cheat or murder but instead loves someone of their own gender, you have a problem with that "lifestyle".

        I would much prefer the homosexual lifestyle than the one you have chosen, if those were the choices.

        1. holdenh13 profile image77
          holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well, my brother is the same gender as me and I love him.  So are several of my close friends that I love.

          I also didn't write the Bible, so what's that phrase?  Don't hate the player, hate the game.

          And who wouldn't want to live in a world where you could do whatever you want?  To Christians, that is called heaven.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I didn't write Mein Kampf either and wouldn't consider for an instant promoting any of Hitlers ideals.

  24. paradigmsearch profile image88
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    This is another title I am beginning to get tired of having slammed in my face everyday.

    To future title posters who are so fascinated with homosexuals, please use the word “gay”. I don't know how gays feel about this, but as a heterosexual; “gay” does not grate, “homosexual" does. Personally, I consider the “H” word on par with the “N” word. But I could be wrong. smile

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I prefer "heathen perverted dyke that will burn in hell forever" or just "abomination" for short...

    2. paradigmsearch profile image88
      paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Let's start a new thread. I mean, really. Why not? smile

  25. Kiss andTales profile image21
    Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago

    Thats depends what your morals are! are they based on being christlike which means christain! and we know Jesus was not a homosexual, Jesus did leave a scripture that was strait to the point! 1corithian 6,9,10 says with no doubt , it says make no mistake ! you will not recieve the right to be in Christ's presence ! the kingdom or goverment of God , you will not be a citizen! This is written truth, maybe not what people want to hear! but will save you from judgement of thinking it is ok when its not! the scripture says that was what some of you where , these changed in line of God's thought on the matter! Is the bible Out dated! I ask you Do men still Die / Adam and Eve did! Do Men still have to work to feed themself ,sweat by the brow!,do women still have birth pangs! yes ! so all other laws of God is still in effect! dont be fooled by false ministers who say different then what the bible says!

    1. holdenh13 profile image77
      holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think I'm going to go order a pizza.  Anybody with me?

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image59
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Technically, Christ wasn't a heterosexual either.  So, if we were all to take this "christlike" stuff to the letter, then this would be the last generation.

      1. holdenh13 profile image77
        holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Just because he didn't get married doesn't mean he wasn't heterosexual.  He was just smart enough to not let women get in his way.  smile

  26. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    “Christians have abused, oppressed, enslaved, insulted, tormented, tortured, and killed people in the name of God for centuries, on the basis of a thelogically defensible reading of the Bible.”
    ― Sam Harris

    1. holdenh13 profile image77
      holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ::tear::  Probably because Christians aren't perfect and because half the groups out there claiming to be Christians really aren't.  Like...the Roman Catholic Church.

      Christians follow Christ, not the pope.  No angels or even Peter would let anyone bow down to them.

      I might be stepping on some toes, here.  But, the truth is the truth.  Don't get mad at me.  Again, get mad at...what the Bible says.

      1. livelonger profile image90
        livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The problem is that you're not relying on the Bible for the truth. You're using your own convenient selections to emphasize. It's the same old same old that we've come to expect from you: everyone else's sins are worse than my own (and of those that are close to me).

        It seems unfair to bash the Catholics when your sect does just as much cherry-picking, self-serving interpretation, and supplementation of the Bible when it suits the values of your own particular cultural milieu.

      2. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Christian - people that believe in Christ and that he was the son of God.  Most, but not all, Christians also make an effort to follow His teachings as they understand them.  Should their understanding not match yours it probably means they are right - not you.

        Is that not the belief of Catholics?  If so then they are Christians.

        Do you not give deference to your own preachers (assuming you aren't your own church)?  Does it include only ordinary politeness you would give anyone or do you go a little beyond that?  Will you defer to their thoughts on God?  If eating with them, will you say grace or let them do it?

        Japanese have bowed to each other for millenia.  It was common (and perhaps still is?) to kneel for royalty.  They are symbols of respect and the currently fashionable etiquette rules.  They are not necessarily symbols of obeisance.

        Having never met nor conversed with an angel I haven't the foggiest if they would appreciate my bowing to them and neither do you.  The same holds for the biblical character Peter.

        Catholic rituals and etiquette may be a little different that yours but that doesn't and can't make them non-Christian.

        1. holdenh13 profile image77
          holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If any of you actually read the Bible then you might think twice about some of the ignorant things you guys are saying.  I'm just being blunt at this point. 

          I'm sorry you guys cannot and refuse to see my side of things.  Everything I believe is in the Bible.  I read it regularly, so I know a lot of what's in it.  And, I feel like I'm arguing with a bunch of children who are just whining about Christianity.  Christianity hurts me...  Christians aren't fair to the rest of the world...  Blah blah.  It's nonsense.

          Everything I have said is Biblical.  If you wan't to argue against what I've said, argue against the Bible.

          Like this - Revelation 22:8-9 - And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

          Argue that faithful angels might let us bow down to them now.  See, I didn't say it.  The Bible did.

          And that's the part of the problem with the Roman Catholic Church.  How many years did priests forbid people to read the Bible on their own?  Because it was supposed to be too difficult for people to understand.  Nonsense.

          I mean, the Pope event recently announced that he God might have created the world through the Big Bang.  Now, c'mon.  If you believe what THE BIBLE SAYS, that can't be true.

          You know them by their fruits.  And if any of you has a problem with any religious "organization" because of how they make religion seem like entertainment or preach hate and condemnation upon sinners, then they probably are just a group of misled "Christians."  I agree that there has been damage done because of how people have twisted Christianity.  Many people out there give it a bad name, and people like me have to suffer for it. 

          You guys draw conclusions from the smallest things I say because you have preconceived notions about what I think due to what the world has done to Christianity.  But once again, everything I think...is from the Bible.  And if you have something against what I have said, GIVE ME A BIBLICAL EXAMPLE TO SUPPORT WHY I AM WRONG.

          I quote verse after verse, yet you ignore them and try to nitpick little things I say.  Again, nonsense.

          1. livelonger profile image90
            livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not questioning your decision to follow Scripture. What I have an issue with is your openness to interpretation and ambiguity with respect to some things, and your absolute inflexibility with respect to interpreting others. That speaks to your beliefs, not the Bible, and makes you just as much a "cafeteria Christian" as others you've complained are not really Christian.

            Here's some verses that for some reason you've said are "confusing":
            Matthew 5: 32
            Matthew 19:9
            Mark 10:11-12
            Luke 16:18

            Four times Jesus explicitly says remarriage is a form of adultery. Why are you so confused by this?

            Can people living in adulterous relationships lead a Christian lifestyle?

            1. holdenh13 profile image77
              holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              This website gives seven different views on divorce / remarriage.
              http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_divo.htm

              If what is said in these scriptures is so evident, why is it that people have such a hard time coming to one solid conclusion?  It is because the issue is, to some degree, confusing.

              Cafeteria Christianity is taking a verse on face or waiting for others to feed you Christianity.  You are being hypocritical by taking these four verses and using them to justify your belief without taking in to account what the rest of the Bible has to say about the issue.  I don't understand how you can cite these verses and give absolutely no analysis of their implications or of what they mean in reference to divorce and remarriage in the Old Testament.  Understanding the issue of divorce and remarriage under the Mosaic law seems key to understanding what Jesus is saying.  You are taking them on face.

              An actual study of the topic of divorce and remarriage will leave you a little more confused than just looking up a few verses and taking them for face value.  The Bible uses figure of speech sometimes that people do not pick up on, and they will take a verse way out of context because of it.  Not that metonymy or any other figure of speech is used in this case, but it happens.  The point is that you have to study.

              With that being said, I will tell you what I do know.

              #1 - I am not married, so my view on divorce is not self-serving

              #2 - It is clear that God hates divorce.  Jesus even says that divorce was not okay from the beginning but God permitted it only because of the hardness of our hearts. 

              #3 - If you are a Christian and you get married, you need to realize that the person you are with is the person God wants you to be with.  He hates divorce. 

              #4 - If your marriage begins to fail and you do not do everything you can to work it out (even in the case of cheating or fornication), then you are guilty of letting the marriage fail.  You need to do everything you can to stay with the person you are married with, since God hates divorce and sin will always be an inevitable result.

              That is all I know for now, and I continue to study God's word to find the rest.  As I said in a previous post, the terms for "divorce" in the KJV and NIV Bibles in the original Greek language are a little sketchy in translation.  Sometimes divorce means "separation" and other times it means "divorce," and the difference between the two determines whether remarriage is okay or not. 

              I never claimed to know everything about the Bible and never will.  I will search the scriptures daily to do my best, though.

              I lived my entire life believing what you believe about divorce and remarriage, and once I began to study deeper and analyze other perspectives on the issue, it became a little unclear to me. 

              What is clear is that GOD HATES DIVORCE.  So I am not going to get a divorce or I will at least do everything I can to stay together with my wife.  I would even be willing to forgive her even if she cheats on me.  The issue of divorce and remarriage is just too thin of a line to walk when salvation is on the line.

              1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this



                God did not permit anything, It was Moses that permitted it because of the hardness of heart.

                Mark 10:2-9
                2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”
                3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.
                4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”
                5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied.
                6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.
                7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
                8 and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one.
                9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

                Jesus says God still forbids it. This is quite plainly written. Only those who are attempting to justify themselves can not see this and that is the cause of the confusion.

                1. holdenh13 profile image77
                  holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If Moses permitted it and God had nothing to say against it, then God permitted it.  Or else, Moses would have consequences, for sin cannot go unpunished.  Recall what happened to Moses when he struck the rock instead of speaking to it.

                  I was avoiding someone saying "see, man wrote the Bible.  That proves it's wrong."

                  I answered everything else you said.

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Are you calling Jesus a Liar? Jesus is the one saying it not me.

              2. livelonger profile image90
                livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I'm sorry that you're continuing to be a Cafeteria Christian (which does not mean spoonfed; it means you pick this, you skip that, based on your own personal preferences, like at a cafeteria).

                In an earlier post, when I pointed to a Torah scholar's interpretation of Lev 18:23, you said you were utterly unconcerned about other people's opinions, and that you only, solely relied on what the Bible said. You say that the Bible couldn't possibly be more clear in its condemnation of homosexuality.

                Then...you offer a link to various opinions on divorce and say, "gee, well, there are a lot of opinions out there. I know the Bible couldn't be more explicit about condemning divorce and remarriage as adultery, but...well, it's all so confusing."

                I didn't say that you were married or divorced. But people close to you might be. And that's why certain conservative branches of evangelical Christianity, especially in the Deep South, are so condemnatory towards homosexuality and so accepting of remarriage: not because homosexuality is any more condemned than divorce is in the NT, because it couldn't possibly be. It's because enough of you in your conservative congregations are divorced and remarried, and not gay.

                Your pointing to the Bible and saying you adhere to it is a bunch of sophistry that is obvious enough to anyone who's followed what you've posted here.

                Fortunately, fewer and fewer people are being fooled by the double standards and hypocrisy, and we're fortunately seeing a sea-change in attitudes around this, like attitudes towards slavery and interracial marriage in the past.

    2. Kiss andTales profile image21
      Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      basically the Bible says the same things from the time it was inspired by God Himself! men where used to write the pages ! through different life spans. all have come true in it and yet we live in the last book Rev as a bible student for many years only people who search God Almighty from the heart can only and will only be allowed to understand, and be greatfull enough to apply what the learn so many people do not know God and his son! meaning in person! thats why the wars and propblems of the world.

  27. Naomi's Banner profile image77
    Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago

    Even if I was to agree with you recommed1 I would still say even though indoctrinated they are still vulnerable to the same verbage as the gay person is.

    1. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      How often do gay kids harass Christians?

      How often do Christian kids harass gay ones?

      Neither is right, but one seems to be far, far more common than the other.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        We went to my grandsons football game today, where the other team was calling their opponents "faggots".  I didn't hear anyone calling anyone else a "Christian", though...

        It was really rather sad thing to hear at a game of 8 year old kids.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          This is still all too common.

          Fortunately, more and more people are finding that unacceptable. Not enough yet, but at least it's getting better.

      2. RedElf profile image85
        RedElfposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Here here!

        Cagsil, pass the popcorn!

  28. Naomi's Banner profile image77
    Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago

    I don't believe I can answer that question as I am not a kid any longer and things have changed a lot including tolerance.  The children are far more tolerant than the adults.  Gay is not a dirty word in most childrens mouths any longer.

    1. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm sorry, I don't think you're answering that honestly as the world really is. I think you're answering it the way you'd like to think it is.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I can answer for about 3,000 kids if I include all the kids I have known who play sport in my children;s teams and the 900 kids at our primary school.
        I went to every game from when they were little.

        No homophobia and it would not be tolerated in either environment.

        I'm not saying that we don't have ANY homophobes, but they get an education or get out of the club/school.

        Australians over-all believe in fairness, are well educated and have zero tolerance for homophobic beliefs.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          earnest: I'm not sure why you keep on insisting that Australia is some sort of paradise. I am very much aware from Australian friends that homophobia does exist there, probably to the same extent it does here in the States, so unless you're living in middle of Oxford Street in Sydney, I'm not sure why you would say that last statement. You've got plenty of Bible thumpers and violent rednecks in your country, as we do here.

          Don't you find it odd that in none of the Australian states and territories can gay couples get married, if Australia is some sort of oasis of tolerance?

          I firmly believe that you don't solve problems by pretending they don't exist.

          1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have to interject here I'm afraid. I think as we get older, I'm a middle aged woman, we tend to surround ourselves with like minded individuals and are more likely to speak out when we see injustice. Earnest definately strikes me as that kind of man. So, it is likely, that Earnest is surrounded by more open minded, tolerant individuals who would challenge homophobia and the ridiculous statements espoused by some. Hence, his overall view of Australian's and Australia.

            I can't speak about Oz, but there are many studies that suggest that younger better educated people are less inclined to vote and more inclined to engage in civil protest, action and general dissent. Therefore, there is a possibility that existing laws in Australia do not represent the views of the majority.

            Unfortunately, govts do not always, well rarely in fact, represent the views of their people. Hence, the absence of equality in marriage for gay man and women in Oz. I'm not disputing that homophobia exists in Oz, unfortunately it exists everywhere.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Spot on.

              I am not denying it exists either, but nowhere near in the proportions I see even from the posts here. smile
              Thank you for the splash of common sense.

          2. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I live in Melbourne, and am active in my children's lives. I don't know where your friends live, but you would need to look very hard to find a homophobe even in the churches here.
            I don't see homophobia simply because it isn't taking place in the numbers you are used to.
            America has more crazy religious zealots than anywhere short of Afghanistan!
            As I said, we have a good education system, so it does not take 10 generations to un-root indoctrination as it does in some places.

            I was born here (5th generation) I have lived or worked in all our major cities except Perth, and my twin lives there, so I know a fair bit about what goes on there as well. I have also worked in America and travelled in most states at least once.
            We just don't have your religious zealots in any real numbers at all.

            Perth would be the most like the America when it comes to homophobes and other low-brows, because it is a million miles away from anywhere.

            I lived in Darwin for 2 years, and saw NT racism, but not homophobia. The best nightclub and hotel were owned by an openly gay couple who were the toast of the town.

            Our current Government and opposition couldn't get a pie in a pie fight, we have an opposition who's leader's nickname is "The mad monk" and have come out of a million years (felt like it) of a gutless right wing government who followed Bush into Iraq on the basis of a lie, and locked up onnocent refugees including small children behind razor wire.

            I don't need lessons on my countries shortcomings. smile
            Don't worry, the legislation is in the bag within 2 years.

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Off topic I know, but Julia Gillard governs 'supply and demand' correct me if I'm wrong. Is it looking likely she'll manage to get certain legislation through?

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Julia Gillard is against same sex marriage legislation, but she is going to get rolled on it according to the numbers I have. smile
                Gillard also left Julian Assange out to dry by calling him a criminal before the story even broke properly because she was afraid of upsetting America.

                Australia like many of America's allies either follow American directives or get punished financially, so it is a real threat.

                1. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You think Australia is taking marching orders from the States on gay marriage? roll

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't know.

                    What I do know is that we have followed you in to every dumb assed war you have been in, and take orders on many aspects of our daily lives under threat of anything from trade sanctions to market lock outs.
                    America is an international bully even bullying it's friends.
                    You didn't know?
                    A quick one for you.
                    In around 2000 Amineptine came on to the market as an unusually clean tricyclic that was very useful in treating pain in cancer sufferers and others with CNS pain.
                    Someone used it as a recreational drug in an American nightclub and it is banned. Not banned in America, banned world-wide By America.
                    Thousands of Australians had to go back to being in severe pain again, because your FDA has some rules that are simply ridiculous, and they enforce them world wide.
                    I can get a prescription for a dirty tricyclic in 5 minutes at the doctor.

            2. livelonger profile image90
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, and the majority of Americans are for same-sex marriage rights, too. The problem is always the entrenched and very vocal minority that digs its heels in and resists change. Isn't that why marriage equality doesn't exist anywhere in Australia?

              I don't think my Aussie friends are delusional, and besides, I wasn't criticizing Australia out of the blue, just pointing out it has the same problems other developed Anglophone countries have. When the topic of American homophobia comes up, you oddly bring up that Australia doesn't have that problem and wonder aloud when America will catch up. That just strikes me as...strange.

              I don't doubt your sentiments, or the sentiments of the people you are close to and spend time with. I could say the same thing about myself - I am fortunate enough to have very accepting parents, gay-friendly co-workers, and live in a city that rarely sees gay bashing. But I'm not going to say that all Americans have a zero tolerance attitude towards homophobia.

              I hope marriage equality comes within a couple years to Australia, too. smile

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I hope marriage equality becomes a reality everywhere, I'm a straight woman but my son is 19 and gay. As long as  l'm around, he'll never have to pretend to be anything else. smile

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Wonderful. I am so glad your boy has your full support. He is a lucky boy, not all mothers seem to know what love is. smile

                  1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                    Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm a straight mum for my gay son, and everyone else's gay son or daughter for that matter smile

                2. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I think your support of him means more than anything else. smile The law will eventually come around.

                  1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                    Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks LL smile It will eventually come round as it should.

        2. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc … mp;cad=rja

          read about same sex arrangements in australia.. Numbers have doubled since 1996 This is a 2002 document from the govie of australia.
          Might as well get some facts eh cobbie

  29. Naomi's Banner profile image77
    Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago

    Well I am answering that question as honestly as I possibly can with the knowledge that I have.  I have been a Foster parent for the last 15 years, I work at a residential placement for children, I am around children every day of my life and yes I did answer that question from the knowledge base that I have.  Just because I didn't agree with what you wanted me to say does not constitute a lie, livelonger.

  30. Naomi's Banner profile image77
    Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago

    To be tolerant of the gay does not always mean to accept the lifesyle.  The people who call themselves gay are human beings just like anyone else and deserve to be treated as such.  I know there is gay bashing out there as I had a family member who was practically beaten to death because he lived a gay lifestyle.  This person followed him home with the intention of killing him.  He had to fight for his life in every way he could and practically blead to death before he found help to get him to the hospital.

  31. Naomi's Banner profile image77
    Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago

    As much as I loved this family member I did not agree, like or accept the life he chose to live.  Not my choice to judge him though.  I certainly continued to love him until he died.  He died of Aids given to him from an irresponsible infected homosexual.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The life style we choose has nothing to do with our sexuality other than the venues chosen.

      I have a couple of homosexual friends who own businesses and have been together for 35 years, I know families with children who live a quiet suburban lifestyle and are crazy about football, I could go on, but the point is that the danger is in the environment forced on minorities.

      The society we live in causes dangerous behaviour by a small number of homosexuals because of the attitudes and non acceptance they have experienced.

      People can be damaged by the attitude of others.

    2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      He did not choose, he is gay. He could, however, choose to be straight for a period of time, lie to any potential partner and himself- for your approval. Ask yourself, is this what you would really want?

      1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
        Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Don't pretend to know the story here he was not gay by birth. He was sexually molested at an early age which created a confusion as to his sexual orientation due to the trauma.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Molestation does not cause homosexuality.  You are just full of misconceptions aren't you?

          1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
            Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And your an expert on what?

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well, firstly, I know that there was no horrible traumatic event that made me find women attractive (I also know it wasn't a choice btw) Secondly, I have spent much time in the presence of both molested children and adults that were molested as children. I have seen molested children become pedophiles themselves, but I have never seen them "turn gay".  In addition, I will venture to guess that I know quite a few more gays than you.  None of them were molested as children.  (Although statistically, I assume that there are some gays that were molested as children but again statistically they were probably gay from birth)

              Thirdly, I've given my educational background in other threads.  What is your qualification for making the gay-sexual abuse connection?  Did a preacher tell you that?

              1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
                Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I don't follow you Melissa so I wouldn't have read your other threads and frankly I'm not interested. I spoke with my relative and have worked with children for over fifteen years and have seen for myself what happens. I learn through experience and statistical numbers don't impress me as people can push the numbers to fit their cause so they don't hold much weight with me.
                You basically confirmed my thoughts by your answer and you totally sidestepped my explanation about the irresponsible homosexual comment.

        2. recommend1 profile image69
          recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Just to drop in here.   It does not matter if your relative was gay by birth, or as you claim was changed by abuse - this is the classic nature or nurture argument and the cause is irrelevant here.   The point being made is that gay people live intolerable lives trapped between who they are and how others want them to be.  Any form of intolerance causes severe stress and depression, especially if it attacks the base of WHO you are, I think that was also the thrust of your argument that I cause as much stress among young christians as homophobia earlier in this thread ?

          Stress and depression are the main causes of self abuse of all kinds, substance abuse is just one of them.

          1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
            Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I was simply pointing out the ridiculousness of saying Christians cause others to commit suicide.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              LMAO, limited world view much? 

              This "Christian" is the matriarch of my family... a very tight knit group.  She runs the show, as is the case in many traditional families of my ethnicity. She withdrew her love from him the second he told her he was gay.  He was sober and recovering at that point.  Being called an abomination is kinda hard to accept when the only person you have in your life is your mother. He relapsed and died shortly thereafter. 

              So yes, she is responsible.  As are the rest of the religious fanatics in the world that believe that their beliefs are more important than another human being's happiness and make a gay's life horrible.

              I have not came out to my family because of her views and when I was in a committed relationship with a women, I spent my holidays and family occassions alone and miserable because of a warped view of the Bible.  I am waiting patiently for her to die so that myself and another member of my family can exist peacefully without her "hating the sin, not the sinner"

              1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
                Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                My response to this is that's horrible for you and unfortunate. Not fair to you. It is difficult. All I ask is for you not to judge all Christians in the same light as we are not all unexcepting of others differences.

                1. recommend1 profile image69
                  recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I have to say that Melissa's experience of christians is also mine.  Not so dramatic but very similar; I made the conscious decision not to impose any religion on my own children and my wife was already not religious.  My lovely little christian mother turned my wife away from her home because my children were not christian and so wasting their time being alive !

                  Most of the christian women of her acquaintance were vicious harridans, totally bigoted and their only topic of conversation was judgemental rubbish about everyone around them.  I suspect they would all be in hell now if there should be such an actual place rather than the hell they made for themselves and others on this earth while they were passing through.

                  This does not mean that all christians are the same, but that particular club does seem to attract them.

            2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Actually, you should checkout Durkheim's theory of suicide and the direct correlation to religion.

    3. MelissaBarrett profile image59
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm sorry for your loss Naomi.  On the other side of the coin, I had a gay relative that drank himself to death because the religious intolerance of a family member made it so that he could never be happy.  He died osterisized from his family and alone for simply admitting he was gay. So I guess I could say an irresponsible Christian gave him a substance abuse problem.

      BTW, AIDS is not a gay disease.  It can strike anyone who has had any kind of sex, ever shared a needle, ever had a blood transfusion, and most individuals working in the health care industry.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good informative post Melissa.

      2. Naomi's Banner profile image77
        Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        BTW Melissa I am very well aware that Aids is not a gay disease, thank you very much.  I am also aware that people commit suicide in many ways and no one is to blame for that but the person.  It is horrible to lose someone to suicide but rather than blame the Christian take a look at the sadness of depression.  Depression comes in all shapes and sizes.  To put blame on another person for anothers depression and suicide is irresponsible in my opinion and not fair.  I am sorry for the loss of your family member but I suspect there was way more to his depression than rejection.  No one gives you a substance abuse problem.  That comes all on your own.  You are the person that chooses to drink or not drink, do drugs or not do drugs.  Unless he was strapped down and the drink was poured down his throat it is unfair of you to charge otherwise.  That is a cop out. 
        I studied Aids for many years so please don't patronize me as though I know nothing about it.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Naomi, let's get real.  There was no reason for your "irresponsible homosexual" crack other than to connect aids and homosexuality.  And by your own logic, your relative didn't die from anyone's irresponsibility but his own. 

          Don't get snippy with me dear, I'm much better at it than you.

          1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
            Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm sure you are! He was irresponsible because he knew he had full blown aids and was still having sex because he was angry about it! Sorry but I call that irresponsible! It just so happened he was homosexual, no pun, crack, putdown intended. Was I angry about is you bet but not about the fact that he was homosexual but because he murdered my relative in a slow and agonizing way!!

  32. Naomi's Banner profile image77
    Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago

    Another response to this comment is I have three sons two bio and one step and they all have friends who are gay and even though they are not gay they are very tolerant of them.  I think I have a pretty good knowledge base.  The ones who go about hating are bigoted and angry and are parallel to the ones who hate and bash Christians, Blacks, Mexicans, Women etc. etc.  There are plenty out there but from what I have seen the majority of children are much more accepting than the adults population that I come in contact with.   With this comment I am done reacting to your comment.

    1. recommend1 profile image69
      recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Naomi - if you 'reply' to a post by hitting the reply button at the bottom of THAT post rather than the 'post a comment' button at the tend of the thread it is a lot easier to see who you are talking back to.

      1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
        Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry didn't mean to confuse!

        1. recommend1 profile image69
          recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That's ok, just helping out - and making sure that we all know who is throwing word-stones and at whom big_smile

          1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
            Naomi's Bannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            smile

  33. Kiss andTales profile image21
    Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago

    Really can this choice in sex be called christ like! the gift of sex is a beautiful gift created by God himself! he surely would know the proper way we where to use this Gift! Just like human invention every man made item has instuctions on how to use and get most from your product with instuction , or else trial and error will be our outcome! The Bible is our instruction God made avaible to all humans here on earth! but what people really want is sexual  feelings of pleasure in the wrong use which is more stronger then there relationship with God .And Adam and Eve it was the Fruit on the Tree that  instuction not to eat / they are dead today/ our instuction is learn his words and keep his laws / and what do people do today! they customize God word to there liking ! and they believe what they say not what God says ,Is this really how you become Gods friend by breaking his laws and saying its alright! can some one keep hurting you and are you going to say its okay its alright! Gaining everlasting life from God is based on your relationship with him ! not based on sexaul feelings for others!

  34. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Your capacity for logical deduction is as good as your god story.

    Why not simply say goddunnit?

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      but that would constitute a one liner.
      and how cheap are those. smile

  35. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Why don't all of us religous Folks come on out with it!!!!  ,,   
    Unmarried promisquity AIN"T all that different .....   as fare as "SIN" is conserned ;; .... Ain't all that much different between Gay or Lesainian Soul Mates... OR   .... Than it is with US!  Fornication is fornication !  And one sin isn't any worse than another.   ....    and we are ALL covered with it!  from head to foot.



       Now that is what I understand when I read the scriptures.



        Now personally;    WE don't spend much time with people that don't make us feel good about myself!   I quess someone will call that prejadist, but I guess I am prejadist against everyone,   sitting in my livingroom; that doesn't make me feel good about "Where T AM"     !!!!!

          Is that all right with everybody else ???????

    1. Randy Godwin profile image94
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Depends on what a prejadist is!  smile  I assume it's someone who hasn't been jaded by religion yet!  lol  You kill me sometimes, Jerami!  smile

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I laffed at me earlier about that!

            Glad ...  everytime I hear somebody else laff TTtoooo

        1. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          HA!  I laugh at myself all the time, Jerami!  It gets easier the older one gets I've found.  smile

  36. Mark Pitrek profile image61
    Mark Pitrekposted 5 years ago

    The Judea-Christian God says very plainly in the Bible that homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord, and they will not enter into the "kingdom of heaven".  This should end the debate, Homosexuals cannot be Christians unless they abstain completely from any homosexual encounters.

    1. recommend1 profile image69
      recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      This is why the Judea-christian god and his bible should be consigned to the dustbin.  Mankind has risen above all that rubbish - even your own christ figure condemned the old testament and said everything is changed -

      LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF  -  so p!ss or get off the pot !

    2. Captain Redbeard profile image61
      Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Mark it also says that liars, adultarers, thieves and many others will not enter into the kingdom. As far as abominations go, read up on all the others before you get on that horse. wether or not this panda person is Christian or not they make the whole point of  CHRISTIANITY love your neighbour as yourself. I live by the summerization of the bible saying, "Love everyone and let God sort them out." Who are we to judge? So a guy goes down on another and a woman steps out on her husband with anotehr guy, is one sin greater than the other, no absolutley not, we are commanded to to do neither. This whole stupid things about gays and God is tired. Just read the bible or whatever book your faith teaches from and find out what it says, you either agree with it or don't! Move on there are more inportant topics than who your boinking!

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        nicely said
        Sometimes when questions are just asked and then just answered it draws lines and to those who find the lines unfavorable they tend to get angry or take it personally and we discover that just because a question was asked people are being offended, but that doesn't change the answer.
        If christianity were just a religion of nothing matters, there are no rules and do what ya want because you will still be right, chances are there might not be any christian forums cuz there'd  be nuthin to talk about.

      2. recommend1 profile image69
        recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You are absolutely right when you say it does not matter who is bonking whom - but the insidious nature of the issue is that you also lump homosexuality together with liars, adulterers and thieves as abominations.

        It does not matter why, or with what justification, anyone tries to raise themselves above any part of society - it is as wrong as racism or sexism.  If it means that to be christian it is required to be homophobic then being christian must be wrong.

        1. Captain Redbeard profile image61
          Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I would have to differ, I don't judge a gay. God does, thus says the book his spirit inspired, I don't lump them with liars, God does. Look you can't argue with what a religion is, you can only agree with it or not agree. Christianity is what the Bible says it is not what I or brotheryochanan or you says it is. So reguardless of whether or not I think being gay is ok or not, it doesn't matter if I follow Christ and if you are going to look at the bible than you have to say ok, christianity is against it however that doesnt mean it is ok to hate someone for their sexual preference.

          Why would being gay be an abomination? If you are follow this religion and read what purpose God created eve for than it's pretty easy to see why. God created man and woman for each other, to be gay is contridict that and therefore is an abomination. It's pretty clear and like I said before it's tiring. Who gives a flip? Any christian that is demonizing a homosexual is ignorant and shall be judged by the one and only judge who is worthy to judge anyone for every action and word they have ever spoken. I myself was raised by a lesbian couple, my mother and her "wife". I hated every minute of my childhood and teenage years. However I do not think they are bad people and God will judge them the same as he will judge me, with Christ's blood. So who cares who is sleeping with whom, to start picking at if guys are sleeping with guys and woman sleeping with woman you have to in turn start questioning the christian woman that goes down on her husband and the christian man that goes down on his wife. If the mouth was created for praise do you think it's a perverse abomination to use it for sexual gradification? Who cares and who knows, focus on what matters. Feeding the hungry, loving the ones who have been cast aside and clothing the naked. Love your brother and let God sort the mess out.

          1. recommend1 profile image69
            recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I totally agree that people should not make it their business to persecute gays.

            Christians who do this are using their interpretation of the bible to contradict what it means to be christian from that same bible. 

            Cherry-picking the bible to get it to support bigotry and hatred is the certain road to hell - from that same bible.

            And when the bigots and homophobes stop harassing and upsetting my gay friends - I will stop commenting, and not before.

            1. Captain Redbeard profile image61
              Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              YA MON! lol

  37. Brewster9 profile image61
    Brewster9posted 5 years ago

    Yes they can.  For the bible is out of control.   Christ or Christ consciousness means  or should mean that a person brings the love, joy and wisdom of God to earth.  This would include loving gays and not condemning them because of a holy book.

  38. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 5 years ago

    Yes gays can live a Christian lifestyle.
    What is hypocritical is so-called "Christians" sitting in judgment of people .
    I don't buy that "hate the sin, love the sinner" BS either.

    1. holdenh13 profile image77
      holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Brewster and Mighty Mom, if you can show me some scriptures or words of God to back up your personal opinions, I will side with you on this issue.  Here are mine -

      2 Timothy 3:16-17 - All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

      Interesting, so the ENTIRE Bible is inspired by God and we can use it to correct ourselves and train ourselves to be righteous.  Interesting.

      Hosea 4:6 - "my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children."

      God says His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.  How do we attain this knowledge?  I would assume it would have something to do with listening to the word of God since it was inspired / written by God.

      Leviticus 18:22 - “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.”

      God has always been the same.  His nature doesn't change.  So, if homosexuality was an abomination to Him, it always has been.

      1 Corinthians 6:9 - "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals,"

      A list of sinful lifestyles that will not be able to inherit the kingdom of God.  Homosexuality is on this list.


      God wrote the Bible.  God made man and woman to be together.  Man and man or woman and woman together is an abomination to God.  People are destroyed for lack of knowledge.  They don't read the Bible (God's word) enough.  God says that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

      I you have a reasonable argument against God, let Him hear it.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Homophobes are just homophobes regardless of who's invisible fairy thinks for them.

      2. livelonger profile image90
        livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You seem to have ignored my post asking you to examine some scripture. Here's the link again:
        http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/83399?p … ost1794851

        Are you uncomfortable discussing scripture that goes against your own viewpoint?

        1. holdenh13 profile image77
          holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, I stopped viewing the forums for a while.  But I will gladly go back and see what you said.

      3. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well said.
        Don't let anyone distract you from the plain truths of the Bible.   Certain passages are so plain they can't be honestly misinterpreted;  some people want to try though.
        You rock.

        1. 59
          MOJposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Would we be having this discussion if these were "plain truths"???  Could there be such disagreement???  At the very least, it seems to me that nearly any passage of Scripture could be viewed as LITERAL or FIGURATIVE, and there is wide disagreement about exactly what is literal and what is figurative.

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I disagree about "nearly every passage" being iffy.  There's nothing hard about the ones that are obviously literal.  Take Genesis 1 for instance.  Unequivocal statements.
            On many others, yes, there's room for questioning.

            1. livelonger profile image90
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Let me guess: those forbidding homosexuality are unequivocal, while those forbidding remarriage are ambiguous? lol

              1. 0
                DoorMattnomoreposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I was just thinking about this the other day. My mother in law is very concerned about my not going to church, and she is on her third husband. I was wondering what she would say if I brought this up? I decided agianst it.

                1. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Smart decision!

                2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lol lol

                  Oh that reminds me when I trying to quit smoking years ago and this big fat visiting Pastor called me out and suggested I needed cleansing.....

                  Um I guessed he wasnt meaning the Colon cleanse ,Pastor Porkchop roll

                  Ok that was disrespectful ,but some leaders need a reality check!

                  P.S Door -You could always say to MIL, I will come to church when there's another wedding ,hehe

              2. 0
                Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No.  It's that those are two separate subjects with separate bases and mixed responsibilities.  Both, however, are forgiveable upon repentance.

                1. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Doesn't true repentance require stopping the sin you're repenting for?

                2. 0
                  DoorMattnomoreposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  This is an honest question in no way meant to make an arguement.

                  You say both are forgivable with repentance. Please explain repentance.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It's simple, every time that you have sex with your second (third, fourth etc.) spouse you roll out of bed onto your knees and start praying for God to forgive you. It gets tiresome after a while, and sometimes your spouse may be insulted but it's all good... as long as the sex doesn't kill you.... cause then you're going to hell.

                  2. 0
                    Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It means realizing that God loves you, recognizing Jesus's sacrifice and power to forgive you for your sins, being sorry for your sins and trying to stop committing those sins.

                    It's a sin, period, to commit homosexual acts.  Repentance for that means stopping engaging in those acts, period.   There is no Biblical nor other moral groundwork for marriage to condone that sin.   Both persons involved in that kind of activity are responsible for their actions.   Both can repent and receive forgiveness if they are willing.

                    It's not a sin to engage in heterosexual sex with someone, IF you're married to that person.   There is groundwork for repentance, forgiveness, and even re-marriage sanctioning that form of sexual activity.  Sometimes only one person is responsible for divorce, leaving the other spouse unable to reconcile the situation without sinning also (or actually, without being put into a sinful position; the Bible speaks of how a spouse's "putting away" of the non-sinful partner "causes" that spouse to sin.   Both spouses can, however, repent and receive forgiveness if they are willing.

              3. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Those ones about being hypocritical are ambiguous too.  You know... "Judge not lest ye be judged" can mean so many things.

                1. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lol Yes, VERY ambiguous!

            2. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Genesis 1.  Isn't that where God made the world, sun, etc. in seven days?  And everyone says a day isn't a day?  Where God created light and made day and night and then days later made the lights that separated day from night?

              Doesn't seem very unequivocal...

      4. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        2 Timothy 3:16-17 will of course include other scripture such as the Koran and the Book of Mormon.  Do you also study these and accept them for learning?

        Hosea 4:6 is pretty plain that if your father doesn't follow God's edicts then you are out of luck as forgotten.  Do you agree that children should be punished for their parents "crimes"?

        1. holdenh13 profile image77
          holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The Koran and Book of Mormon are not inspired by God or else he would be a liar.  The Bible is all we need.  Don't get me started on this.

          And I think children should be punished for their fathers crimes just as much as we should make animal sacrifices for sins.  God's covenant with us has changed, but the nature of God and man are always the same.  Man will always seek after his own desires and be destroyed because of "lack of knowledge."

          1. 59
            MOJposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You know, the idea that "if it isn't in the Bible, then it isn't true" isn't in the Bible.

          2. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, no.  That's just what YOU claim - that other scriptures are false.  It should be obvious that millions upon millions of people will disagree with you, and with at least as much evidence and vehemence you show.  As there are more of them than there are of you they are obviously correct.  There is no evidence that Christians, and Christians only, have the last word on Truth - that you choose to profess and promote that falsehood does not do you justice.

            If the book of Hosea is no valid because God changed the covenant then why would you even read it, let alone use it as proof of God's will, instructions or desires?  Do you mean the the written/inspired word of God is no longer of any meaning?  Or do you get to pick and choose which parts you like and thus are still useful?

            1. holdenh13 profile image77
              holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              First I'd like to say that I never said Hosea is not valid.  Every scripture in the Bible has validity; however, stipulations under the mosaic law are no longer valid under the new law (the new covenant, Christ dying for sins).  I gave the example of how animal sacrifices were used under the mosaic law, but now, we have Christ as an eternal and infinite sacrifice for sins.

              While the law has changed, the NATURE of God never changes.

              Examples of old laws we no longer abide by:
              Animal sacrifices are no longer offered for sins
              We no longer have peace offerings
              We no longer have laws telling us how to deal with our oxen
              We no longer have a tabernacle

              Examples of the nature of God:
              Loving
              Jealous
              Just
              Forgiving
              Hates sin (ALL sin including divorce and homosexuality as it is specifically mentioned in both the Old and New Testament.  Can't be any clearer.)

              Here is the most basic way I can illustrate it:

              God's nature (eternal)
              <-------------------------------------------------------->
              Human nature (since creation.  destroyed for lack of knowledge)
              --------------------------------------------------------->
              Mosaic law                   New law
              ----------------------------X--------------------------->

              God's nature stays the same.  In other words, if he says he hates homosexuality, he always hates it.  If he says he hates divorce, he always hates it.

              The Old Testament details many laws that those under the Mosaic law were to abide by; however, the law was never perfect and never meant to be long lasting.  God sent Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins, and we have a new covenant with God.  We have the gospel to lean on. 

              Homosexuality is a sin but not an unforgivable sin.  God designed man and woman for each other.

              Recount in Genesis 2:20-24 -

              "But for Adam no suitable helper was found.  So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh.  Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

              The man said,

              “This is now bone of my bones

              and flesh of my flesh;

              she shall be called ‘woman,’

              for she was taken out of man.”

              For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."


              It was like this from the beginning and always will be.  The nature of God never changes.

      5. recommend1 profile image69
        recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't recall this being in any bible I ever read, are you sure you haven't tweaked the word of your god to say what you want it to ?

        You are not the first of course, that was Paul whose abomination has made it as the official version.

        Or maybe you are reading some version jazzed up by a random religious homophobe that was sent out to the third world ?

        1. holdenh13 profile image77
          holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          This comment is absolutely pointless.  Personal opinions with nothing at all to back it up.  Wisdom of man, aka garbage.

          I won't respond again until you say something with meaning.

          1. recommend1 profile image69
            recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So - you DID change the wording of your quote of the supposed word of your god big_smile

      6. Captain Redbeard profile image61
        Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        holdenh13, you sadden me.

        1. holdenh13 profile image77
          holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          awww man sad 

          But, we haven't even met.

  39. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 5 years ago

    That is also true and (going a bit off topic) what is often so surprising to addicts is realizing that God was there beside them all along, they just had turned away from the sunlight of the spirit.

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      True.  That's the same with many people.  I know that I personally looked back after years and could see how God was always watching over me even though I didn't realize it or appreciate it at the time.  I've known people who got saved and never looked back (or so it seemed anyway from their life's testimony); and then there are others (like me) who sometimes lose the initial fervor for God and slide back a bit, as in "looking back" in yearning for our sinful lives.  But He knows the true intents of our hearts.  I'm very glad He doesn't today turn people into pillars of salt like he did Lot's wife!

      1. Mighty Mom profile image92
        Mighty Momposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well, Mrs. Lot deserved her lot, wouldn't you agree?
        lol

        Sorry, I'm being silly and this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, which I answered sincerely in my post above.

        Think I'll quit while I'm ahead and you (Brenda) and I are actually in agreement on the topic of God! smile

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thank God for small favors, eh?  wink  smile

          1. Mighty Mom profile image92
            Mighty Momposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Little miracles happen every day. Even in the HP forums. smile

  40. paradigmsearch profile image88
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    omg!

    First thing slammed here with first homepage! Oh, My!

  41. 60
    evemmicklemposted 5 years ago

    Hi i am evemmicklem i will read your story and i will impressed via ur thoughts.

  42. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 5 years ago

    What do you think God sees when he looks around at the world of 2011?
    Sexual immorality -- rampant and glorified in all media
    Idolators -- of every configuration, again glorified 24/7in the media
    Adulterers -- Pleez! Why be faithful? Getting a divorce is just too easy!
    Passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals -- ok, so they're listed, too. In the same sentence with probably 75% of our population.

    The point is,
    a. I don't see homosexuality spelled out in the 10 Commandments do you?
    b. Anyone can ask for and be given forgiveness from God for their sins, transgressions and abominations.
    Even man's inhumanity and homophobic fear against man. smile

  43. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Homosexuals as straight people can live any kind of lifestyle they so desire.

    God will always have the last say.

    For me ,its about loving,that is the commandmant God wants me to concentrate on.

    1. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You're a perfect example of someone who treats people respectfully, despite having your own private beliefs on such matters.

      One would hope that certain remarried evangelicals would appreciate Christians not reminding them that they're headed straight to hell, and maybe behave the same towards gay people.

      1. Mighty Mom profile image92
        Mighty Momposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So by this woman's logic, if gays go to church, even if they get married three times, they are absolved, right?
        It's all about going to church!
        Doesn't matter what (or who) you do outside those hallowed walls.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, you see, the wedding is the sin in getting remarried. Once you repent for that, you're good to go. (It doesn't say that in the Bible, but we can infer that.)

          Now, for gays, it's not so simple. The minute they think of their partner romantically, they're sinning. (It doesn't say that in the Bible, but we can infer that.)

          And, of course, not going to church and not donating generously to the collection plate, well, that's the worst sin of all. (It doesn't say...)

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thankyou for your ecouraging words.

        Heres the thing for me though ,I do for the main part love and enjoy many many different people,and trust me I can have the most enjoyable conversation with a complete stranger.

        Sometimes all we have is 'that moment' to interact and the beauty of that opportunity is ,there is treasure to be found, and trash (not to be confused by the wrapping paper)

        But how will we know if  we don't share a lit bit of ourselves.

        As for the original OP, the short answer is yes they can.

        The long version is well l o n g.

        But ya know what I am not gay and I didn't live the Christian lifestyle too well today lol in fact are we not ALL humans and ALL trying to make the best of our short lives?

        Maybe that is what the scripture means when God says...   
        New International Version (©1984)
        for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,so lets love and help each other instead of finding fault...

  44. DIY Backlinks profile image59
    DIY Backlinksposted 5 years ago

    Reading some of these post I take away that I had a choice to like girls (being that I am a guy) or I could have been turned on by other males? Your kidding right? How could that be a choice? I could not have sex with a male if you paid me too. The bling is just not there.

    Attraction is not something you chose. I never chose to like females I just do. I was born that way. I don't think God would make a human being flawed to be opposite of sins that would send them to hell for having what he created. Think about the things that turn you on and then ask yourself how and why. Did you chose to be turned on by it or does it just happen naturally. Sexuality and deciding to be a whore are 2 different things. I think anyone who says that people decide to be gay assume the natural position of man on top and have never explored or understood sex. They may not even like it lol.

    1. holdenh13 profile image77
      holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      DIY Backlinks,

      I will take your logic and apply it to the Bible.

      - "I don't think God would make a human being flawed to be opposite of sins that would send them to hell for having what he created."

      1 Corinthians 10:12-13:
      - "So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it."


      So this means that God did not create man to be gay.  No one is tempted beyond what their own strength, and homosexuality is clearly a sin in the Bible.  Adam and Eve were together in the beginning and set the precedent for what God wanted. 

      Consider this also.  The first two handmade people of creation were male and female.  That is all God made.  He did not make other male and male couples.  He did not make male and female couples.  He made a SINGLE male and female couple.  I'm trying to point out that this is not only scriptural but logical.

      He designed males and females to be together.  There are also plenty of verses in the Bible speaking against homosexuality, so we can conclude that it is not the way that God intended.

  45. somelikeitscott profile image57
    somelikeitscottposted 5 years ago

    Go get 'em livelonger!!! I have always adored you and will continue to do so! I never heard "Cafeteria Christians" before but it's going into my every day speech now (and of course, I'll give you credit)!

    1. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you! And I don't claim "Cafeteria Christian" as my own...but I do have the need to invoke it WAY too often. wink

  46. MelissaBarrett profile image59
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    Woot!  I is a cafeteria Christian!

    Today, I'd like some 1 Corinthians 13:4-8, some Proverbs 10:12, and a double serving of 1 Peter 4:8.

    Hold off on the II Kings 2:23-24 and Deuteronomy 25:11-12, they always give me indigestion.

    I'd just like a smidgen of Ezekiel 23:19-20... on the side please.  I'm feeling adventurous today smile

    Does this cafeteria serve coffee?  Or is it only this water that tastes like someone has stepped on it and this bloody wine?

    1. livelonger profile image90
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Heehee!

      Don't forget 2 Kings 2:23...sweet, light, and surprisingly low-calorie.

      And don't even think about Hebrews 1:17 - you'll be belching that up for hours afterwards.

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry, no coffee.  The Mormons have forbidden it.

      God does not tromp on His holy water - a little respect, please.  And of course the wine has at least a little taste of blood - rejoice in it.smile

      1. holdenh13 profile image77
        holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if I offended anyone here, because it was never my intention to do so.  I only came here to answer the original forum question but my eagerness to stand up for what I believe is right is why I've said so much.  It is clear that our beliefs are different and we are going to clash a little bit, but I don't have negative feelings towards anyone here.  Religion happens to be a factor in our lives where we differ, so lets let that be.  I'm sure we have all benefited from this debate in some way.  We can all take something from this.

        But I do firmly believe in and stand behind the things I've said. 

        As well as that, I will acknowledge that cafeteria Christianity does exist.  It is sad but true.  There are people who live just as you all have stated.  Picking verses day by day to live by.  That is not Christianity at all, and it is a shame that it is that way.  Christians can only do their best to try and help those who fall under that category of pick and choose Christianity.  I have seen it myself and I will admit that in less mature times in my life, I have lived that way.  But, I know what the truth is now and I do my best to follow ALL that God teaches us.

        I'm not wishing condemnation on anyone or anything of that sort.  It's certainly not my place, and I'm not that sort of person anyways.


        If you take anything from anything I've said or done, take that I am a Christian who is just trying to serve.  I struggle every day and am tempted all the time to do things I know are wrong.  I know they are wrong because God tells us they are wrong through the Bible.  I've come off as a harsh, but I don't mean to be.  These are just my beliefs. 

        If I didn't truly care about God, I wouldn't be basically preaching here in the forums.  Additionally, I do not live off of my own personal feelings or what I "feel like" or "think" God is telling me.  I don't look for sign and symbols.  I don't draw conclusions from my own opinions or the opinions of others.

        I look at what the Bible says.  Nothing else.  I believe it is the perfect word of God and the handbook to life for those who believe what's in it.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Calm down - no one is offended.  See the little smiley faces in the preceeding posts (threaded view)?  A little humor being injected - that's all.

          You'll know you're being offensive when large claw hands reach out from your screen, grab you by the throat, and begin shaking.  Or when you get banned for a personal attack!

          1. holdenh13 profile image77
            holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Lol I'm calm, I was just saying...

          2. Kiss andTales profile image21
            Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            perhaps some one elses opinion means nothing to you! and perhaos you are saying in your comitts about God and His inspired word, that  you do not care about your own life,  that you are like someone who people would be wasting thier good energy and words of wisdom ,in thinking  you are worth it ,an at this point  you are not to me !because God is everything  to all life,Life comes from him not us! when you sleep tonight will you wake up! can you add tomarrow , No only God can !

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Am I the only one that thinks that Kiss and Tales is an atheist's sock puppet?

              1. Mighty Mom profile image92
                Mighty Momposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                lol
                Atheist sock puppet!
                Is nothing (non)sacred here?
                Good grief.
                If atheists are invading HP forums anonymously, what's next?
                Leftist progressive sock puppets?
                Peacenik sock puppets?
                Feminist sock puppets?

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                  MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  LMAO... I used a possessive demmit!

            2. Kiss andTales profile image21
              Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              and there is nothing humorus about the one who holds your life in his hand!, there is a time and place for all thing, this subject has been abused!

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Actually there is something very humorous about an invisible fairy holding anything in it's hand! lol

                1. holdenh13 profile image77
                  holdenh13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  For adults, some of you guys really are acting pretty immature.  The way ************** and *********** take every opportunity to make a joke out of Christianity is saddening.  Neither of you have made a meaningful comment.  Everything you have said has been hate against Christianity since the beginning.  Though i do not agree with the lifestyle of gays, I have enough respect and love for gay people not to call them fag or homo.  These are people that God cares about, and I care as well.  Smashing Christianity is exactly what you are hypocritically claiming you are against.  I never once "gay bashed" anyone and neither has anyone else here.  Somehow, people in this forum are claiming that we need to be "accepting," but comment after comment is trash talk against Christianity.  Is that accepting?  You try to act like you are "accepting of others," yet you clearly are not accepting of Christians as you are gays.

                  If you can't stop poking fun of Christianity, then I'll know that you are exactly that.  Just a troll who happens to love gays.  Nothing more, nothing less.

                  All I'm asking for is that you show some decency towards Christians just as we show it towards gays.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You love and respect gays, but will you fight for them to enjoy the same rights you enjoy?  Will you actively support gay marriage?  Will you welcome a gay couple next door when they move into your neighborhood?  Most Christians won't, and you have to be aware of that - the large legal battles over the issue aren't being carried out by people with no religious affiliation and it isn't the secularists that are dragging gays to death behind their cars.

                    As far as making meaningful comments, nearly everything I've seen you post has been based on biblical instructions - as nearly meaningless to a non-believer as it is possible to get.  It's about the same as declaring that because you like chocolate cake it is obvious that the gay lifestyle is sinful and evil.  When you declare that being Gay is OK with you but God will toss the sinner into the lake of fire no one believes you.  The second part is only true in your imagination and the first one doesn't fit with it.

                    Although I've seen some religious folk on these forums post as though they truly do believe that other lifestyles are just as important and acceptable as their own I've seen far more express an intense and bigoted view that anyone not believing isn't worth the shadow they cast. 

                    Until Christianity in general can turn this around and a large majority actually believe that others lifestyles are just as good as their own, until they can get off their moral high horse and quit trying to run others' lives, they will get only the decency they show to others.  Christians actually get more decency shown towards them than the majority of Christians show towards gays and you know this to be true in spite of any personal feelings you might have towards gays.

                2. Kiss andTales profile image21
                  Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  just like you and anybody that support such disrespect of God will be invisable to me by name! you have no good insight nothing to contribute to those who love truth and goodness! you are now invisble to me! and the real puppet  sock of perhaps satans!

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm sure this means something, just can't make the connection to the sock puppet bit, or the fallen fairy from the same myth.

  47. 60
    m2centsposted 5 years ago

    Well I all I can say is that I have never seen an instance of homosexuality in  the animal world. Few animals have life mates so the other ones join for reproduction, not love. If its a choice being made, then that choice would end in a end of line for that homosexual animal, there would be no offspring. But then end result is the same if indeed it is genetic, no offspring. In either case the animal's personality or genes would not be passed down, ending that line.

    So can someone be gay and Christian???? Well that is a choice that they make they can be one or the other or both. As long as it is allowed be the populous. They roll the dice to see if God would accept them, or is the greater picture one of them asking.."is there a God that would accept me as a homosexual?" In the end, we all live by our choices.

    But, most all of the war, turmoil, and hardships on this earth has been rooted in religion. Countless battles over religion, dating back before the Holy wars, Spanish Inquisitions and so on..

    In the end I will leave you   my 2 cents....Rodney King said it best after he was nearly beaten to death............ "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?"

    enjoy life before is gone..

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I would have to say you haven't been around the animal kingdom much.  Check out this hub and its comments:

      http://kristif.hubpages.com/hub/Well-My … ayNow-What

      1. livelonger profile image90
        livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Reminds me of something I read recently:

        Homosexuality is found in over 1,500 species.

        Homophobia is found in only 1.

        Which one is unnatural?

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol  Good point!

          Unfortunately, any good Christian will either be looking the other way and won't see any of those 1,500 species or will announce that it is obviously a result of an abusive cubhood.

          1. livelonger profile image90
            livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol ...or because they had a willful hatred of Chimpanzeesus.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Funny lol

              Dont know about anyone else ,but I am not an animal wink

        2. 60
          m2centsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Please check the facts when distinguishing between homosexual and
          A-sexual ... species .. The continuation of the species relies on reproduction and not determined by any gender.. Just x-y which may change.

          1. livelonger profile image90
            livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm pretty sure the scientists who study this sort of thing have a good handle on the facts.

            No one is advocating that the vast majority of people who are heterosexual suddenly force themselves to be gay. That G-d/Mother Nature/evolution made/yielded most humans heterosexual and a small minority homosexual or bisexual is according to a logic that we don't understand, but it's clear that heterosexuality is in no danger of dying out, and thus neither is continued reproduction of our species (clearly).

            And thanks for the new year's wishes. smile

      2. 0
        DoorMattnomoreposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        you should have seen how furious my father in law was with his gay ducks.

      3. 60
        m2centsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm sorry, the key words were neutered.. I don't see that happening in any free roaming wild animals..
        Bottom line we choose to be who we want to be, gay or not. Christian or not. And happy new year to all our Jewish friends. I think we would all get along if we looked at each other through the eyes of a child.. that knows no hate, color, race, or religion...

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image86
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this



      You might want to check this site out then:
      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news … nimal.html

      It happens.

  48. MelissaBarrett profile image59
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5566996_f248.jpg

    Had to share...

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't see anything about destroying the sanctity of marriage - that was a big one around here.

      And we all know that as that sanctity is destroyed all other marriages will become worthless and half the population will get divorced. 

      Wait a minute here....

    2. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's always best to get the stats. smile Nobody can argue with that.

      1. davenmidtown profile image87
        davenmidtownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Did we ever come up with an answer to the question?

        1. ii3rittles profile image85
          ii3rittlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Here's an answer: Is telling a lie a sin? We all lie. And one sin is no greater than the other. Homosexuality is a sin as well. I feel as thought I can love God and be close with God in spite the fact that I tell lies from time to time. Having a relationship with God isn't about just dropping your sins... Its about growing closer to God through learning from mistakes and sin. We are all worthy of heaven as done so by Christ, its just up to us to choose to repent of our sins. In repenting, we make a point to acknowledge we are sinners and vow to do our best to rid ourselves of sin, yet God knows, to do so if hard. Which is why it is important to pray to God and study the word and hide it in your heart.... in short of all my rambling, Homosexuality is a sin, as is lying and thanks to God sending Jesus Christ, we are forgiven of our sins. BUT if you make no effort in your heart of hearts to change... God will know.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, what we find is that believers lie all the time, they are taught to lie by their religion. If believers didn't lie, then they wouldn't hold their beliefs, they would be honest with themselves first and foremost.

            Non-believers are for the most part honest and don't normally lie. They are already honest with themselves because they understand religions are myths.

            1. lizzieBoo profile image79
              lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              What an extraordinarily blinkered view!

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What an extraordinarily pointless and irrelevant statement to make! lol

                1. lizzieBoo profile image79
                  lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  "non-believers don't lie..." hmmm

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Is it that difficult to believe there are people who are first and foremost honest with themselves for not being compelled to defend imaginary sky fairies of various shapes and sizes? ...who have no need to lie about concepts and theories which indirectly or directly and coincidentally have a contrasting impact on those beliefs? ...who have enough understanding of the world around them to know that what they observe about the universe is reality? ...who know that the facts of reality are strong enough to stand on their own against mythologies and that being honest about it is the one and only logical path to follow?

                    It is this mindset that if adhered to with sincere integrity will always offer no reason or cause to ever lie about anything.

                    Is that really so difficult to believe?

  49. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Which god?

  50. davenmidtown profile image87
    davenmidtownposted 5 years ago

    how does homosexuality become a lie?   That is a bridge I do not think you crossed well in your argument... please expand on it....

    1. ii3rittles profile image85
      ii3rittlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I was simply stating that a lie is a sin and homosexual acts are sins. Just saying no sin is greater than the other, and everyone sins so why should that justify weather or not someone who is gay yet believes in God, Jesus and bible is being hypocritical? But hey! according to "A Troubles Man" I am a liar because I believe in the bible so don"t listen to me! I SPEAK LIES! and that's coming from a man who's name is... a "troubled" man...right. I was simply stating my opinion, not judging anyone, yet I am being judged. Why I bother... I have no idea..

 
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