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Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?

  1. AEvans profile image70
    AEvansposted 5 years ago

    Lately I have been noticing that many of us have an addiction to the religious threads. Although I am Christian why do we believe we have to argue about religion? Shouldn't we be embracing those, who are non-believers instead of telling them why they should believe? Didn't the Lord say, " Judge and we to shall be judged?" Didn't he say, " Love one another as we would love ourselves?"


    When discussing our beliefs shouldn't we explain ourselves calmly and turn the other cheek when someone disagrees? That is what Jesus would do. Shall we as Christians try this? Let's see if it works.


    Shouldn't we learn from each other and gain knowledge so that we can all get along?

    So let's see if we can be nice to a person on this thread who does not believe, that is what Jesus would do. Do not attack those who do believe they to are entitled to there opinion and thoughts in a positive way.

    I will begin......


    I embrace those who do not believe, because they are a creation of God and they are my brother and sister. All are created in his image.


    Next...

    1. quicksand profile image85
      quicksandposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Believer here!

      What matters is not whether they (we) believe or not. What is important is how they (we) respond to what life offers. That way the atheists have a clear edge over us believers!

      smile smile smile

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yea ,no, see God gave us a brain and a sound mind, and we all should exercise it.smile nicely of course smile

    2. 2besure profile image81
      2besureposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Many of the religious threads on HubPages, are started by atheists that want to provoke and argument.  Sorry to say that many Christian fall for it ever time. Once you discern their purpose it to cause dissension, I find it best to ignore them. You can not embrace someone who is not interested in what you have to save.  Scripture reminds us is best not to cast your pearls before swine.  He that winneth souls is wise.

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        This swine thinks you don't have any pearls. lol

        You should look back through the threads....most are started by religionists like yourself flogging their invisible ineffective god myth like used car salesmen/women and calling people who don't buy their ridiculous myth swine!

        1. TJenkins602 profile image73
          TJenkins602posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You are not Swine, just pedestrian, LOL!!!

          Okay, I couldn't resist the used car salesman remark.

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You are selling a lemon.
            Calling people swine is not funny/

            I wonder if you would have the guts to say it to my face?

            1. aguasilver profile image87
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Earnest, I think you will find that when someone quotes the scripture 'pearls before swine'they are using a metaphor, not casting slurs on your provenance or character.

              Having said that, I believe pigs are actually very highly intelligent, and doubtless very few of them believe in God.

              Pearls Before Swine
              From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
              Pearls before swine refers to a quotation from Matthew 7:6 in Jesus's Sermon on the Mount, implying that things (such as pearls) should not be put in front of people (or in this case, swine) who do not appreciate their value.

              http://www.madaboutjewellery.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/pearls_before_swine.gif

              If you start taking things too literally you stand the danger of becoming a fundy!

              Now that would be interesting!

              1. Levertis Steele profile image83
                Levertis Steeleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                LOL! I thought that it was cute the way he got defensive. He seemed ready to fight. "I wonder if you would have the guts to say it to my face?" he said. Well, these hubbs usually end in altercations, actually ivitations to fight! We human beings are ridiculously funny. I agree with 2bsure; it is probably best to avoid them because most people who create them are looking for arguments. It is a strong person who can control emotions and handle criticism professionally. James Watson is the best I know.

                1. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't see why some gutless religious fanatic who can't make an argument to save themselves should get away with calling others pigs, but then with the amount of abuse in the bible I guess you don't even notice low-brow crap like calling people swine, so it matters not to you.

                  If you did it to anyone's face they would deck you for it.
                  Try calling someone a swine in the street and see how long you can keep a straight nose!

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I've been shocked over the last couple of days. Several have claimed that isn't meant as an insult. I don't see how it could be taken any other way. I've been told 'it's just a metaphor'. Like that makes it all better.

    3. 71
      SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You have to do something otherwise you our not really doing anything. People have to generate their own interest and in most cases you our simply a messenger and God does the work. Never condemn, express what you know and most of all create a question for them to answer. Only God can save anyone and yes for many this will be their only life. I have attended many churches and was condemned right out the door so I can understand why it is hard to embrace unbelievers for some. In all truth everyone is seeking the same thing but some of us choose to do it with-out seeking any knowledge or possibilities. I have no idea what penalty exist for simply seeking knowledge but there is a lot to know in order to be wise.

    4. TJenkins602 profile image73
      TJenkins602posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm friends with anyone that accepts me. Believers or not.

    5. Levertis Steele profile image83
      Levertis Steeleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      To answer the hubs big question: NO to the 12th power! Human beings are generally too argumentative and just too stubborn to embrace others who do not like their "cheese." Simply put, we are selfish.

    6. Levertis Steele profile image83
      Levertis Steeleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is a lot of animosity here. People are as hateful as they were in the days of burning others at the stake. I think that only the law prevents most of it today. It is hot in here, and I am taking stage left!

    7. ediggity profile image61
      ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think you are correct about staying calm; however, I also think that Jesus was fairly straight forward about the way we should live and address his teachings.  Additionally, keeping no believers engaged is a great way to keep them thinking about Jesus.  Even Peter denied Jesus 3 times.

      smile

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not Peter, I will make it a fourth though. smile

        There were many other "teachers" at the time this was written....... an easy way to make a living from the great unwashed and superstitious masses at the time.


        Apollonius did it up-market, so we know he existed, he left proof that can be seen today.

        Jesus never made it into the proof side of things, but because of christian politics he did make it in to the bible as the son of god...... one of many candidates.

        1. ediggity profile image61
          ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I disagree, there is a whole New Testament written about those things.  smile

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm from Missouri ..... show me. smile

            1. ediggity profile image61
              ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this
              1. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I've read the whole thing before, I asked you to show me where, not point me at the book I know doesn't support your premise.
                Don't call me bushwacker dogdbreath!

                1. ediggity profile image61
                  ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I showed you the New Testament, where the proof is located.  You said you were from Missouri, I thought you'd be honored to be called a Bushwhacker.  smile

                  1. earnestshub profile image87
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    This may surprise you, but I was not in the American civil war, and in Australia that is an insult.
                    As I said there is no proof.

                  2. earnestshub profile image87
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No you didn't.

      2. AEvans profile image70
        AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        smile

  2. AEvans profile image70
    AEvansposted 5 years ago

    Is everyone afraid?

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I embrace all of my fellow members of the human race, although they are not the creation of any invisible gods.

      How's that AEvans?

      1. 0
        meginiowaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        My pastor discussed this very issue in his sermon this morning, saying that ultimately our lack of tolerance has a lot to do with the growing amount of atheists in the U.S.  Something like 30% of us identify as non-believers. I was always a believer but never went to church but this movement of evangelical atheists was my incentive to find a church. Thank you for your piece AEvans.

        1. 0
          meginiowaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I should have pointed out the irony of the rabid atheists driving me to attend church. I also want to say that the most generous, service-oriented and progressively minded people I know are church-goers. I don;t think anyone has ever accused Dawkins of any of these things.

          1. 0
            meginiowaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Speaking of Dawkins here is an excellent piece which includes Marilynne Robinson's (a member of my church) vehement criticism of Dawkins' "The God Delusion." If you have a subscription to Harpers you can read the entire article online.

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Have you finished dissing everything you know next to nothing about?

              1. 0
                meginiowaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I wish you all the best.

        2. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There are no evangelistic "atheists" just as there are no evangelical non-believers in the tooth fairy.

          1. Repairguy47 profile image61
            Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I would say you are an evangelistic atheist. I have never seen anyone more on a mission to change others than you. You do it in the most rudest of ways all the while applying smiley faces as if that somehow makes what you wrote nicer.

            1. kirstenblog profile image77
              kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You haven't met Mark then have you? Earnest is a cuddly kitten really, I have not seen him threaten anyone with eternal damnation yet....

              1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I haven't seen anyone threaten anybody with eternal damnation. And yes I have seen Marks work, he is indeed another evangelistic atheist.

                1. kirstenblog profile image77
                  kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It sure wasn't God that told my best friend back in catholic school that she was going to bun in hell for wanting to do confession directly with God instead of through a priest....

                  Lucky for her, I had it on good (religious) authority that I too was bound for the hell fires, told her we would be sure to meet up there.

                  Telling children they are going to burn in hell is just wrong and I got it from EVERY church I attended, Luthran, Catholic, Methodist and Baptist.

                  Stop fooling yourself and talking a bunch of BS, your lot do threaten hell, to CHILDREN!!!! Lie to someone please.....

                  1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                    Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Angry person aren't you, did any of these people threatening have any ability to carry out the threat? No! By the way I don't believe you were ever threatened. Have a wonderful day.

                  2. amymarie_5 profile image87
                    amymarie_5posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    @Kristinblog: My parents were catholic, I thought I was going to hell as a kid too.  Then my mom started dragging me to the pentacostal church that my dad's cousins discovered.  That made things worse.  Repairguy thinks your lying, of course he does.  Of course people like that don't remember how it was as a kid.  Sure the adults meant well, didn't realize they were scaring us but they did and a lot of us who didn't get brainwashed are scarred. 

                    Anyway, I swore I'd stop writing on these things and concentrate on my writing.  The real reason I joined hubpages.  Seems like I get sucked in.  I still have a lot of scars.  I guess I still need to get this stuff out of my system.

                2. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You must have missed almost every thread here if you haven't seen the religiously impaired making their threats of damnation. lol

                  As usual, you abuse the privilege of any real conversation, and show that you are not prepared to embrace anything except your dogma.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    EG IS an evangelistic atheist and there have been plenty of threats of damnation in these forums.

                    You both are right and you both are wrong.

                    Now come over here and gives momma some lovin'

                    (((hugs)))

                  2. Repairguy47 profile image61
                    Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Eh, I haven't seen a single threat, show me one.

              2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Deep down Mark weally loved me ,I felt it subliminaly lol

                Earnest ,well we got history ,neighbours and that and I do 'love my nieghbours as myself'..even if they say sex instead of six !


                AEvans Its true I have had trouble being submissive when my Lord and His honor is mocked and ridiculed, and taken insults on my character for my beliefs etc.
                Stuff that I left behind in a playground ,only to find it here (and thriving) in a supposedly adult writing forum.

                A huge part in loving someone is being honest too.

                So if someone insults me ,they deserve my love and truth.

                I guess I think its a bit wimpy simply saying oh ok I hear you think I am a dumbass but I love you ...

                But hey count me in for a group hug ,I lourve to hug smile

                (Jesus also was not shy in rebuking the people he loved,I guess is what Im saying)

                1. AEvans profile image70
                  AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I louvre to hug too! Love the pic (((((Hugs))))

            2. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Most rudest? lol That grates like nails on a blackboard. Please don't torture the language, it is in enough trouble already on most of the religious threads.

              1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                This coming from the guy who said shonky. Oh well, probably wasn't correct grammar and yet doesn't change the meaning one wit.

        3. AEvans profile image70
          AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Your welcome. I have just been observing and it is upsetting when (we) as Christians do not act like we should and attack others who are not believers. I know it is hard to walk -the -walk persay; but we should make it a point to try being kind everyday. smile

      2. AEvans profile image70
        AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh Good. smile

  3. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    Declined. smile

  4. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    As a whole, I actually like the non-believers on the forums more than the Christians.  If I weren't strongly rooted in my faith, I would go atheist rather than be associated with the bible-thumpers. 

    And yes, it is possible for members of all faiths to have intelligent conversations and embrace each other's differences.  You just have to acknowledge that everyone has a valid point every once in a while. Or at least a point worth thinking about. 

    Edit:  I actually like Mark...er... I mean EG.  He gives really good intelligent debate when he isn't being an arse.  And Earnest is adorable...

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think you are adorable as well, and you have dimples! smile

      (Tell your husband I mean that with great respect.)

    2. 0
      klarawieckposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree... Earnest is adorable. big_smile

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hey!


        Watch it you two.




        I resemble that remark! lol

        1. 0
          klarawieckposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Earniiiiiiiiiiieeeee? Yooooooooohooooooooo???!!! wink

          You've got two ladies who find you "ADORABLE"?

                       and I'm adding another one...

                                          "IRRESISTIBLE"! lol

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Wow! That's tow women out of four comments!
            The twins are on school holidays and just charged in to attack me. Not an uncommon event I may add. smile

            I asked them if I was adorable or irresistible as well.

            Asha said No, you are a silly old granpa, everyone knows that!

            Lauren added  "and you NEVER feed us!:
            They had breakfast an hour ago......jeez I need all the adoration I can get!

            1. 0
              klarawieckposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah... we forgot to mention that little piece of info too...

                  Melissa and I found you irresistible because we wanted to be fed. So, pull out the chicken wings and french fries. We' eatin' American today! Yeeeeehaaaaaw!!!

                 XOXOXO wink

  5. 0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?

    Judging from most of the posts here.....apparently not.

  6. AEvans profile image70
    AEvansposted 5 years ago

    So the thread is just beginning and I already see some tension. sad Let's try this again. (Embrace) each other.

    1. Lord De Cross profile image63
      Lord De Crossposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Where do i fit in here? I think I took the wrong short cut. Let me out please. (Jk)

      1. AEvans profile image70
        AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Silly! Being nice is complicated. Oh this is fun! big_smile smile

    2. livelonger profile image89
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nice idea for a thread, AEvans!

      I think anyone who is a good person, meaning they do good things, is fine with me. I truly don't care what you believe, if anything at all. smile

      1. AEvans profile image70
        AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I am the same way. All of the bickering is exhausting. sad

    3. quicksand profile image85
      quicksandposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's more likely to continue the way it has been ... embarrassing each other! Actually this kinda thing should be discussed in a lighter vein, because both sides always end up losing badly!

      lol lol lol

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good things ,words ,gesture,thoughts are never wasted wink whoever says them smile

        Nothing to be embarassed about-least I am not.

  7. 0
    Wentworth35posted 5 years ago

    What a refreshing post!  I too am addicted to the religion hubs and forum posts, but as an atheist, rather than a believer.  However, I am perhaps slightly different in that I am a non-believer who sincerely wishes that he could be a believer.  If there is one thing that I have noticed about questions of God's existence, it is that everyone is convinced they are right, and that everyone else is wrong.  When I used to be a Christian, I could not understand how anyone with half a brain could doubt that God existed.  I looked at the beauty of nature and the complexity of life and could not see how there could not be a designer behind it.  However, a study of the cosmos and of evolution convinced me that religion is entirely manmade and that the hope in a God is really a hope in an afterlife, and since everyone is terrified of death, I came to understand that this was the reason why religion existed.

    I have argued strongly against the religious believer, because I fail to see how they cannot accept the evidence of science.  The fact that many Christians, especially of the American type feel the need to deny the fact of evolution in order to maintain their religion has been one of the biggest reasons, why I have turned away from religion. 

    I have noticed too how much anger there is between the religious and the atheist.  Why it would matter in a seemingly meaningless universe what others believe would seem not to make sense, except of course, that it is by trying to convince others, that we are in fact trying to convince ourselves.  Having found myself attacked most strongly on the Richard Dawkins site, for admitting that although I am an atheist, I miss my believe in God, I have come to realise that there is just as much anger from atheists as there are from religious believers.  I have myself had many heated debates over God's existence, but am coming to realise that it is not my business what others believe.  We all have free will, and are entitled to believe whatever makes sense to use, even if this includes a belief in fairies at the bottom of the garden.  The trouble is, that many people do believe they have a right to dictate to others how they should believe.  I have been criticised for not being Christian enough in the past and for not being atheistic enough, since becoming an atheist.  Now, I believe people should keep their own beliefs to themselves, and not try to force them on others.

    1. Repairguy47 profile image61
      Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I support your right to not believe. And to make it more clear I don't care what you believe, It isn't any of my business. I don't argue the existence of god I argue the irony that some atheists want me to believe they are correct and do it with a holier than thou attitude.

      1. 0
        Wentworth35posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I believe there is a holier than thou attitude coming from both some of the religious and some of the atheists.  It stems from a human need to be right.  None of us like to appear to be in the wrong, so we defend our beliefs, as if we are really defending ourselves.

    2. 0
      meginiowaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wentworth35. As a non-believer interested in the topic of religion, you might want to check out the writings of Jeff Sharlet. He is best known for his book, The Family: The Secret Fundalmentalism at the Heart of American Politics but his new book, Sweet Heaven When I Die: Faith, Faithlessness and the Country in Between is a lovely collection of essays about people living in the margins of faith. He also edits two webzines ~ Killing the Buddha and The Revealer. You can subscribe to both by giving them a google and signing up.  High level of scholarship in both 'zines and the books.

      I'll be interviewing him for Identity Theory within the next few weeks, if you're interested.

      I agree with you in some ways about the holier than thou attitudes. The exception being that I think the people who employ this attitude have egos that have run amok and when this is true people are suffering from a psychological disorder most resembling narcissism. I don't know this to be absolutely true, of course, but after years of study I strongly suspect it. Paz.

      Sharlet himself is a self described nonbeliever as are many who study religion. In many ways, its a sociological endeavor.

  8. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Shonky (informal) unreliable or dishonest.


    You know.... dishonest. lol
    Never let the truth get in the way of an insult eh?

  9. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    "Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?"

    Actually, I shall do this the other way around as a non-believer. A religionist lives across the street from me. I shall go over there now and give her a hug. As soon as I'm back out of jail, I'll report back here.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol lol
      Thank gawd you still have your sense of humour! lol

      1. paradigmsearch profile image89
        paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I am down, but not yet out. smile

  10. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    She hugged me back. All is well.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol who could resist a rascal pants hug!

      1. paradigmsearch profile image89
        paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Here ya go. smile

        http://www.solardecathlon.gov/past/images/07_daily_journals/photo_dj101907_dj2-sm.jpg

  11. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/608622_f248.jpg

    Few of the locals getting in on the act.

    1. paradigmsearch profile image89
      paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely Excellent!!! smile smile smile

    2. quicksand profile image85
      quicksandposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Cats evolving? ... Perhaps they too will "evolve" into humans! smile

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yep evolved all the way into Photoshop by cleverly created humans wink

  12. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    EG hits the nail right on the head from what I have seen. A straight talker. smile

  13. Happyboomernurse profile image88
    Happyboomernurseposted 5 years ago

    Hi AEvans,
    I absolutely love what you wrote here. Thanks for being a voice for love, tolerance and respect on all sides .

    1. paradigmsearch profile image89
      paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I am fond of her as well. smile

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Me too. smile

    2. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Always. smile I love people and wish that everyone could just get along for a little while. It can be tough but with a little work it can be done. smile

  14. Lord De Cross profile image63
    Lord De Crossposted 5 years ago

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/5559081_f248.jpg
    Wow..is this thread producing miracles? we didn't even need to wait nine months! Keep the embrace..don't hesitate. Love one another..love one another as brothers..LOL!

    1. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      OMG! LOLOLO! You should have told anyone how many little people you had. Now the cat is out of the bag. lololo! big_smile

  15. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    Hey AEvans, I've been meaning to stay out of your thread for a specific reason, but I guess that reason should actually be voiced in some manner, which would require me to post to your thread. Thus, I'm no longer staying out of your thread. tongue

    Believers don't need to embrace non-believers. Really, they don't. They should live their life according to simplistic message Jesus gave them. If more of them walked the walk, instead of pretending to walk the walk(only talking the talk), then living life would be so much simpler, easier and much nicer.

    I don't require their embrace. I do require their acceptance that I will live my life in the manner in which I choose. Telling me I will be punished based on their beliefs isn't my concern and it shouldn't be their concern either. Those who don't believe, don't for reasons and mostly intellectual reasoning.

    It gets tiresome to hear from believers that the judgment they expect to come and believe is coming, will be brought upon all those who don't believe. That is a threat, regardless of whether or not, the believer understands. It's ironic that believers somehow do not see it as a threat.

    I would prefer them to believe what they want and live by their beliefs, which have no place in the life of those who don't believe. Many claim it's a personal relationship, yet want to cover all of humanity? If it's a personal relationship, then good keep it on a personal level. It has no place in a non-believers life.

    I'm serious. I've seen enough believers, here and offline, to understand that they believe for what and choose to do so of their choosing. That's fine, but the religions of world and all the books that are provided for reading, if read honestly, preach intolerance and ignorance to reality.

    Acceptance is all that's asked, nothing more and nothing less. Aside from that, many religious don't seem to grasp the main concept of "love" to begin with. They make claims that they love others, yet their own actions prove them to be liars. On top of that, it requires one to love themselves, before they can love anything else. The teachings from the religious books provided to humanity teach intolerance, which means it doesn't teach love.

    Okay, my rant is over with. Enjoy! smile

    1. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I accept you feathers and all! lolo!big_smile


      By the way it is quite before the storm. lololo! Feel it coming. ::::::::::::::::::smile

      1. Lord De Cross profile image63
        Lord De Crossposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I foresaw Cags. Comment hours ago..He even hesistated..he read the thread....he came back....left....came back...read our comments....took some coffee and...shooot! He fired his rant finally. Luckily he made it home safe. Thinking of gravity..is it just science? I guess our planet is not too heavy to fall forever.

        1. AEvans profile image70
          AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh geez...........big_smile He loves us and just had to get here. What would a thread be without him? smile

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry I'm late Miss Evans, I was busy leading a life!

            Better late than never, but then again, maybe not! big_smile

            1. AEvans profile image70
              AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You are funny! I am glad to see you here. I took a vacation for awhile to! big_smile

              By the way like the pic. I remember the old one. smile

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah, thanks AE, well the 'eye' was kinda nice (for me) for a while, as it symbolised lots of things for me, then I went with the silly face 'cos I thought I was being too serious, now I've gone for the 'gazing wistfully out to sea' approach, 'cos every time I look at it I remember sitting on the beach in Thailand, which I do every three months when I need a border run!

                Coming back to the OP I think these guys reckon we are all sour faced morons who live lives of utter seriousness, when in fact we are all as crazy as a fox!

                http://www.pictures-hero.com/uploads/Crazy-like-a-fox.jpg

                1. AEvans profile image70
                  AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lololo! So true! big_smile

    2. lone77star profile image89
      lone77starposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for the rant, cags. Sorry, but I was busy working. Glad I could catch it on break.

  16. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    I enjoyed that exchange. Honest and attitude free is always good when we can manage it. smile. smile

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed, very pleasant, now shall we start lobbing grenades again!

      big_smile big_smile big_smile tongue

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps not on our very well behaved host's thread. lol I have already been naughty in reply to one of the usual insults and retaliated. smile

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok then, see you when Mark is around in one of his many disguises and we can have a real ding dong! lol  lol  lol

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I don't think he has any disguises, he is just EG in the forums now.

            1. aguasilver profile image87
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Fair enough, I've been too busy of late to keep track!

  17. quicksand profile image85
    quicksandposted 5 years ago

    Suddenly if it is proven without any shade of doubt that GOD does exist, what changes could you expect that to bring about? ... Nothing at all! ... The atheists will continue to live by ethics (most of them are ethical) the believers will continue to preach (most of them do although I don't!)

    smile smile smile

  18. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Sorry to be naive peeps ,but whats yer point?

    Cuz seriously the biggest ,meanest whatever is just a puppy in dogs eyes -right

    Ya gotta know this smile I do, and I dont know no president of no chapter wink least not lately lol

  19. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    I got an OK on the American food from the small fry around here, so it's all American.

    Crinkle cut? or slims, what oil we usin? How many wings did you want? Crispy on the outside or seered? Champagne with that?
    How's the view? Everyone comfortable? How's the music?



    I think I'll grab a beer.

    1. 0
      klarawieckposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You gotta pull out that mojito for me (ME CUBAN) and Melissa, well.. she'll probably have a cold one! big_smile

           Buffalo wings (LIKE'EM HOT! cool) For the fries... don't matter... we HP girls are HUNGRY!!! yikes


            lol lol lol

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I got me a small colloquial problem here....... what the hell are buffalo wings?

        We don't have flying buffalo in Australia no matter what your tourist agent told ya!!
        Gawd I'm an ignorant sod! I had to google mojito.
        I'm havin one of them myself! I'll have two if I'm still standin!

        1. 0
          klarawieckposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          http://s3.hubimg.com/u/5570662_f248.jpg

          YUM!!! If I could only get my husband to stop playing FIFA on the XBOX I might be able to take him up on that offer of GOING OUT TO EEEEEEAAAAATTTT!!!!! yikes yikes yikes yikes

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            OOOOOOOOOOOOOh that looks goooooooooooooooooooooood. smile

            I'll have the drumstick if no one else wants it. smile

            1. AEvans profile image70
              AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It looks scrumptious! my stomach is growling. smile

              1. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I am usually courteous, but in this case, "Race ya to the drumstick!" smile

                1. AEvans profile image70
                  AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I believe I have beat you to it! lololo! big_smile Your not here, but I will share. smile

                  1. earnestshub profile image87
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Very kind, thank you. smile

  20. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    Dang, and I missed out on all of this! I don't do chicken wings, but are their any fries left?  And dear God please let there be Murray's Stout. (Since an Aussie is cooking)

    1. 0
      klarawieckposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I finally got my husband to take me out to eat. Bikers night at Scully's. Geez! It looked like a Cuban version of The Sons of Anarchy!

      Melissa, I saved you some chicken wings!

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        LOL, no thanks on the wings.  *looks around* maybe there is a celery stick left somewhere...

    2. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I love stout!

      I mix it with lemonade and make a portogaff. Lovely!

      1. 0
        klarawieckposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Found it!


        http://s2.hubimg.com/u/5570985_f248.jpg

        Earnest granddaughter had the last one!

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That child is being attacked by a vegetable!

    3. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Here we go again.... what in all getout is a Murray stout??

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        http://www.taverntrove.com/beerpics/thumbs/Murrays-Milk-Stout-Labels-Wm-Murray--Co-Craigmillar-Brewery-Ltd-_34969-1.jpg

        1. recommend1 profile image70
          recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Now if you could only come up with such instant and certifiable proof when needed you would get us all to follow your god big_smile   however, I am prepared to follow the stout !

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If you are ever in Penang, I'll lay hands on you and cast out a demon or two, would that count?

            http://www.markrampulla.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/images.jpg

            Note the resemblance!

            1. recommend1 profile image70
              recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I will be in Penang sometime next year.  If you try any of your hocus pocus on me I will wave my Taoist charm at you and show you your future !

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yaaaaahhhhhh! Not a Taoist!!!!!

                In that case I will have to deal with your ancestral curses also, (and wash hands after)

                http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbHKlacMmGHwK8Us1iZcJZV9NGldntYfLDJJX8uoEvxJLEYisVGyntHSEypA

                1. aguasilver profile image87
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Or we could have a Tiger or two at the local hawkers stalls!

                  1. recommend1 profile image70
                    recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Safer to confine it to Tiger, those Taoist curses tend to work !  especially when backed with a carving knife !

        2. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Aqua. The Scots are nuts! The men wear dresses.

          What would they know about stout! smile

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ah know U Jimmi!

            http://media.screened.com/uploads/1/10184/365069-imagescan06qjc_large.jpg

            Dinna try say'n that ta a real scot naw....

  21. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    Awww, but she is wicked cute...

    Never had beer mixed with anything but tomato juice, of course I'm not really a big drinker.  (I don't drink around my kids and I am never NOT around my kids).  Since you are heading to the States Earnest, drop me off a few.  (Kids have got to go to college someday)

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't drink much either, and never around the kids.
      I was told by a hubber that I was an alcoholic one year that I had 3 drinks in. smile

      {Trying to score points with the old fashioned character assassination method)
      Tongue in cheek only works sometimes on here. smile

      Is it the kids you want me to dump off or the beer?
      I just took them all up to the supermarket to get apple juice, sausages and sweets. (the sweets are for me)
      I can only imagine what the 3 of them would be like on the plane..... actually when I think about it, it would be bags of fun! lol

  22. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    Actually, you can dump off the beer and pick up MY kids.  Take the hubby while you are at it.  A day alone with a couple beers sounds like a gift from the Gods.

    I think the last time I was alone for an entire day was circa 1992.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Most mums and wives should have a portable sound proof room they can pop in to. My daughter almost has one, she is at the other end of the house with the door locked trying to get some rare sleep
      .
      Grandfathers can take a lot of weight off moms, but not all of us live with our grandchildren.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        My dad is in very poor health.  My mom is emotionally supportive, but will absolutely not watch Lily.  She can't deal with the autistic behaviors.  Hubby is the youngest of his siblings and he is 41.  His mother is old enough to need her own baby sitter. I don't gets babysitters smile  (I actually had to pay someone 50 dollars to babysit Lily for an hour and fifteen minutes so I could go to a funeral)

        Its awesome what you do for your daughter smile

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Melissa, wish we were neighbours. I would love to baby-sit for you to give you a break.

          I use the same method with kids as you do. Love is easy in the presence of children.

          I sometimes look after two identical boy twins born at the same time as the girls. They belong to my daughter's girlfriend.
          When the twin twins are together they are a riot! They do keep me very busy though. smile
          I love being able to help my daughter, and appreciate that not every grandparent is in a position to be able to. I choose to think I am very lucky. smile

  23. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Ok I am outta here in a minute, just gotta throw some kids in bed then I'll sleep myself.
    I will be around tomorrow as well... school holidays, see you then. smile

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sweet dreams and tell them a fairy story from me!

      You know which one!

  24. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    I'll say goodnight with a word from Sam. smile

    “We can either have a twenty-first-century conversation about morality and the human well-being - a conversation in which we avail ourselves of all scientific insights and philosophical arguments that have accumulated in the last two thousand years of human discourse - or we can confine ourselves to a first-century conversation as it is preserved in the Bible.”
    ― Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation

  25. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    There is a problem with embracing with believers, and as usual Sam outs it well/

    “Imagine a world in which generations of human beings come to believe that certain films were made by God or that specific software was coded by him. Imagine a future in which millions of our descendants murder each other over rival interpretations of Star Wars or Windows 98. Could anything--anything--be more ridiculous? And yet, this would be no more ridiculous than the world we are living in.”
    ― Sam Harris, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But Earnest, you are living in a world where billions of people believe that God has His hand in everything, and so would argue that Star Wars was an analogy inspird by God to show what happens when evil is allowed to triumph and how Good overcomes evil when good men stand against it, and who would say that Bill Gates was doing the enemy's work when he stole Windoze and created a captive audience, whereas Steve Jobs created Gods Operating System with Apple, but the cost is higher.

      You see (or wish to not see) God nowhere, whereas believer see Gods signature in all things.

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You made my case for me aqua. lol

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No problem making your case, it's the truth, except you don't think that God had any part of the bible, nor anything else, and we know He did.

          That's the whole point where there will never be any agreement until eternity happens to us all.

          I don't care if you are right, and there is nothing to look forward to, you seem to object to my looking forward to eternity.

          Got to fly now, school run and busy day, see you later.

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ok aqua, drive skilfully with the precious cargo. I will be back on your case when you return, smile

            1. aguasilver profile image87
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              "The truth is even if we had multiple contemporaneous eye witness accounts of the miracles of Jesus, this still would not provide sufficient basis to believe that these events actually occurred, or why not? Well the problem is that first hand reports of miracles are quite common, even in the 21st century." Sam Harris

              ...and yet he still try's to say there is no evidence?

              New Atheism, in it's drive to attack Christ, no longer accepts eye witness reports.

              Yep, that sounds reasonable and safe to believe in.

              1. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It's just not that focussed on your christ aqua, it is about man's capacity to relate what they don't understand to superstitious nonsense from the beginning until today.

                1. aguasilver profile image87
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So because Atheists cannot understand scripture, faith, Christ or how God interrelates to the whole of Creation, they decide to ignore all eyewitness accounts and only stand on what can be proven in a lab environment.

                  I reckon that by those standards no criminal would ever get convicted, perhaps except for confessing the name of Jesus as Lord over all in an intolerant secular society.

                  1. earnestshub profile image87
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It's not that hard yp understand aqua. once you stop defending the implausible you can see how ridiculous it is to believe this stuff.

                    The bible that religion is based on is a concoction of the hundreds of superstitious nonsense gods that preceded it.
                    It lives in the aqmygdala as peoples fear of death aqua, it is myth, which is why it sounds so ridiculous when you think about it's basic tenets.


                    An invisible apparently ferocious god made mankind the universe and everything (to borrow from THHGTTG) but is so inept, uncaring or intolerant it only looks after the people who bow down to it like the heartless religionists we see here, while allowing the innocent children of the world to die horribly because they were unlucky enough to be born in a sewer.
                    It is illogical, callous and beyond the realms of any decency, and therefore total and complete codswallop.

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    LOL! What's to understand? Magic? Are you saying you understand magic? And, you actually believe there were eye witness accounts from people who still ran and hid from thunder and lightning because they thought they were angry gods?

                    lol

  26. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Growing barren plants? That's rich!

    Wipe out almost a whole species you created as an omniscient being? That is simply insanity.
    You defend a ridiculous myth from a myth from a myth as truth because you had some experience that is greater than anyone else's and follow the god who is better than everyone else's god

    Thereby you are better than I am, and all the other plebs who don't understand, not bright enough to see that a bronze aged myth is the reality to live a life by.... sure. lol

  27. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Not quite awake yet, sipping coffee SOoo  I might be awake in a minute.

      Does "anyone" believe that they (themselves) are an  extremists?

      I haven't known anyone that admits to being an extremist; though I have known many.   At least they are in my opinion. And since I feel so strongly about that,  maybe I ARE ONE too.

      I guess what I'm thinking is,  How many extremist are really looking at both sides of their favorite issues? 
      Can we be an extremist and open minded at the same time?

      I think that the truth lies someplace in the middle ....  that is where they put those white on the hwy.  Not in the ditches, but right streight down the middle. 
       Are you an extremist?  NOT    ME  .,..  we all say !
       How many of us are really being honest with ourselves


       OOps,  not quite awake yet.   I gotta give my neighbor to work ..
    will ck. back in later.  Maybe I'll be awake when I get back.

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sure, I am an extremist, I am extremely aware of what God has done for me, and that my extreme desire is to be closer to Him, each day, as I grow older and wiser.

      Would I consider myself extreme by secular standards, you bet, and happy to be so, for we have some of the most dedicated secularists here on the forums and they need sledgehammers to crack their shells.

      Where I am not extreme is in the acceptance department, I have no desire or need to convert any of them, nor anyone else, in a forum situation, all I seek is to disrupt their constant denial of God and attempts to undermine the faith of others.

      They can do as they please, or as Rhett said:

      http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/241/4/b/Rhett_Butler_by_khinson.jpg

      "Frankly MiDear I don't give a da**"

      1. Evolution Guy profile image61
        Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yup - that pretty much sums up why your religion causes so much division and conflict.

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Blather, Blather, Blather,Blather, Blather, Blather, roll roll roll

          1. Evolution Guy profile image61
            Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Dear me. sad Little wonder you cause so much ill will. sad

            1. aguasilver profile image87
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Blather, Blather, Blather,Blather, Blather, Blather,

              You stop making trite, inane, nonsense, copy and paste 'quotes' and maybe I will answer you. roll roll roll

              1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I did no such thing. I pointed out why you cause so much ill will and conflicts. Because you don't give a damn. sad

                This is why your religion has caused so many conflicts. The followers do not give a damn about anyone else. As you stated.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  ..EG you want me to stop talking about God,to show you that I care?

                  Dont you see that is nonsense and the opposite of what Christ teaches.

                  Why would you persist with this attitude,if its not working?

                2. aguasilver profile image87
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Mark, what I said was:

                  "Where I am not extreme is in the acceptance department, I have no desire or need to convert any of them, nor anyone else, in a forum situation, all I seek is to disrupt their constant denial of God and attempts to undermine the faith of others.

                  They (you secularists who seek to disrupt) can do as they please, or as Rhett said:

                  "Frankly MiDear I don't give a da**""

                  It's you Mark, and your little cabal of New Atheist chums who I don't care for or about, because you are only here to DISRUPT discussion on a religious forum.

                  You have made your choices, stop bleating to me that I must play by YOUR rules, you have no say in my life, any more than I seek to have any say in yours, indeed, I would be delighted to never hear from you again.

                  But if you persist in resorting to 'trite, inane, nonsense, copy and paste 'quotes'' then all you deserve is; "Blather, Blather, Blather,Blather, Blather, Blather"

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Bavo Aqua ,it does so get very tedious doesn't it.

                    I expect better from an educated man (EG) but there ya go,wonders never cease.

                  2. Evolution Guy profile image61
                    Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Why would you seek to disrupt? Odd you don't see or understand why this causes conflict and ill will.

                    But then - you don't give a damn - do you? This is why your religion has caused so many conflicts. sad

      2. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        aguasilver;  I agree with your reply  TOTALLY.

           There are some people here that belittle what they call as extremist.
        I was just trying to point out to "Them" that  WE can  all  be considered as such from someone elses prospective.

           Last year I couldn't even spell extreemest  ...    Now I ARE one!

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          Surprising what titles and words are out there huh Jerami..( maybe it makes them feel smarter )...hmm

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yep   gotta put them down in order to feel that we are better than them..

               We keep forgeting that we are also "Them" to somebody

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thats true too.

              Guess nobodys perfect wink

  28. Alexander Alex profile image60
    Alexander Alexposted 5 years ago

    hiiiiiiiiiii

  29. 60
    PG McPhatposted 5 years ago

    I thought we were supposed to be embracing each other.
    Somehow this discussion went off track!

    Just what causes this type of conflict?
    The believer insists on believing in something without evidence.
    The atheists' insist that common sense should prevail.

    Believers live their life based on faith, it is in stark contrast to those who live life based upon what they see as "REALITY"

    But to the believer, his faith is "REALITY"

    Trying to explain why faith makes sense, INHERENTLY, makes no sense to the atheists.

    But the believers are quite sure that their faith is absolutely valid, even if it makes no sense at all to the atheists, because making sense is not what faith is all about.

    Faith is based upon a psychological need, of which the atheist does not have.

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Doing really well until you had to take a swipe in the last line!

      Faith is based upon things hoped for but as yet unseen, no psychological need, just faith in God.

      My life would be much simpler without God, but I would not want it that way, God makes life much richer for me, and I love the fringe benefits that come with belief.

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If you hope for something, whether it be God or a T-bone steak, is there not a psychological need for it?  If you don't want it why would you hope for it?

        Of course there is a psychological need in most believers for a God.  God defies death, gives eternal life, direction and reason to their lives.  I've had far too many believers ask how I can go through the day thinking I would cease to exist sometime, or without a reason for my being, to think they don't have a need for those things.

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Was I speaking to you?

          No, don't think so, so please don't speak at me, or think that you know what I need or do not need.

          OK kiddies, play safe, I'm off to bed.

      2. Evolution Guy profile image61
        Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yup. Believing that you have some authority by speaking for the Invisible Super Being does seem to give your life meaning.

        The fringe benefits being all the ill will and conflicts you cause by claiming authority without reason? And then needing to attack anyone who does not believe?

        This is why you cause so many conflicts. 2,000 years and still sticking it to us? Disgusting. sad

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yet more Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Mark you are SOOOOO predictable it's boring.

          1. Evolution Guy profile image61
            Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah - keep reality out at all costs.

            After all - you don't give a damn.

          2. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think EG has got your measure and you really don't like being confronted by someone who can nail it so succinctly. smile

            Despite all the childish responses to the various sarcastic spelling "errors" in his posts, you and others must know by now that he is a well educated gentleman with a kind heart and no time for religion, which he has been consistent with from day one.
            In the mean time almost every religionist here has fallen out with another religionist about how goddunnit, and none of you "experts" have ever laid a glove on him in 3 years.

            You can't deny what he says, so resort to attacks on him personally that are shallow and that some of you know are deliberate lies.

            One after the other like flies on a cow pat, you guys say he should learn to spell, and ignore the message he is stating, which is that you have displayed your (willing)lack of education again, and may be a hick from the bible belt lookin fer a good lynchin.

            Does any religious zealot here have the right to tell others that they have to believe a ridiculous illogical, hate-filled ancient invisible sky fairy?

            No they don't. smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yet your hero EG seems to think he does.

              Oh my Earnest you traded Jesus in for this guy?

              Seriously hmm

              1. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I don't run to heroes Kiwi. And I didn't trade religion for anyone. I just took in what is available to all.

                I respect the words of someone who is consistent and honestly says what he thinks, instead of running away by making personal smarmy attacks that they know have no substance.
                If the religiously impaired had the same morals, there would be no arguments.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  ..But EG doesnt give any facts he just mocks and quotes repetitive statements.

                  So yes I guess he is consistant in that manner wink

                  Honest?...I really dont know about that. Im inclined to think its all about perception.
                  Morals,Im sure EG has them..but how would we know this? (unless he was speaking principle ,we already agreed with)

                  All I am saying is how is that any different than say, a nutty fundie.

                  Objectively none.

                  They both chant nonsense in my opinion.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    He's not lying, like so many consistently dishonest Christians here.

            2. aguasilver profile image87
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think you are crediting Mark with too much, sure we know he is a great guy, and intelligent, but "nail it so succinctly" I don't think so, he has about three pet phrases that he will repeat ad nauseum and frankly it's pathetic.

              YES I can deny what he says, and will, for he has avowed to disrupt any and all discussion between believers for the simple reason that he is still hurting and damaged from things that have happened to him in life, and hates God.

              I do not need to put up with his problems, so when he wants to behave like a boring teenager with ADHL I will ignore him, but not simply ignore him, for he would see that as victory, just pointing out to the forum users that he is Blathering again.

              If of course he has any intelligent discourse, other than just attempting to disrupt things, I will respond.

      3. 60
        PG McPhatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, I didn't want to cause any conflict.



        And this is where the conflict begins.  We have to understand that our beliefs do not correspond to reason, and accept that they are based in our emotions.  This way we can understand why it is pointless to try to debate with the atheist, who are using reason.

        To the atheist, it is not a matter of things hoped for but yet unseen, but rather, things that are simply preposterous.

         

        That is your mind-set, and it serves you, but to some people, there is no need to attach themselves to this concept, and they are sure that what we believe is sheer nonsense.

        I, on the other hand, think that life is much simpler with a belief in God.  It gives me comfort in a world of chaos and uncertainty.  Atheist are not afraid of the chaos and uncertainty.  I applaud their courage, and embrace them as fellow travelers on the road of this unknown concept called life.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I am happy you find life easy with god or for any other reason, it would be a wonderful planet if everyone could be in circumstances that allowed them to be happy.


          Thank you for the respect shown to non-believers. As an ex-believer It took a lot of courage to give up the dream of eternal life and deal with the life that I have.

          I think that if there was a god he would be happy with your post. smile

          1. 60
            PG McPhatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you.  But my belief is not in any of the religions of the world.  I only believe in the concept that a God exists.



            My girlfriend is totally atheist.  When she told me that she did not believe in an afterlife, I was shocked that she could have that kind of courage.  Eventhough I keep the door open to possibilities, part of me knows that she could be correct.

              Thanks!  smile

  30. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    It isn't about discussions between believers though is it?


    The hubpages forum has become a place to flog religion. smile
    I wonder if I can sell my ute here?

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      depends... what the hell is a ute?

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        A utility.

        A small truck with a flat tray on the back. smile

    2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You really see religion being flogged Earnest?
      I wished I shared your optimism.


      Yes ya probably could sell ya ute or hey ya wanna trade -Monte Carlo 95 (rebored) whatever that means.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That was way less interesting than I hoped smile

        shyte, that reply was meant for earnest.  Sorry kiwi... You are always interesting.

    3. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Shouldn't that read the HubPages RELIGIOUS forum IS a place to discuss religion, when it's members can actually do that despite being pestered by people who think religion should not be discussed except in terms designed to disrupt all believers discussion?

      Go sell your 'ute' on the forum that sells 'utes'

      You will never sell the 'ute' you are pushing here.

      1. Evolution Guy profile image61
        Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Free speech - except where people point out how religion actually spreads hatred and ill will, and it's proponents gain egotistical self righteousness by claiming to speak for a "higher power"?

        Lets discuss religion - but not that actual facts and truth about religion?

        Thank goodness you can no longer burn us at the stake. sad

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Fine, carry on trying (and succeeding actually) in your disruption, you are both a sign of the times and I welcome the (minor) persecution that you offer believers, especially as it actually strengthens faith in folk.

          Well done, whisper and blather away, you serve your master well.

          Forgive me if I choose NOT to play your games further.

          http://cosmobaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Gone-Fishing.jpg

          Got to be easier souls to save out there than you two!

  31. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Last time I looked the forum was "Religion and Philosophy, not "christians flogging their religion only"

  32. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Serve your master well?

    I don't serve a master, and what you are implying is morally despicable.
    What a stupid thing to say!

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What I am implying is a suggestion you do not wish to consider, anyhow, playtime over, I have things to do, Europe is now online and I need to work some!

  33. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Which god would that be again aqua?

    That would be your god right?

    The one inside your head that talks to you, not the one inside the muslims head that talks to them, the other angry psychotic one eh?

  34. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    It's a heap simpler than that aqua, it is used exclusively to insult...... always has been used that way. smile

    It's just a gutless way of calling someone an idiot and you know it. smile

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well frankly on the average foray I make into these here forums, I am insulted much more than metaphorically, but hey, who cares, like the old English phrase goes, "Sticks and Stones can break my bones, but names can never hurt me"

      http://welovelocalgovernment.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/chicken.jpg

  35. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    aqua I think you need to know a bit more about how you get your hits, I can assure you it has nothing to do with Mark! lol and once again you miss your obvious egotistic claim to something that "atheists" and others, even ex christians are too dumb to understand.

    Funny that. smile

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Earnest, all I know is that when Mark and you and Cagsil start trying to tag team me, my reads go up, now I could just put it down to folk seeing my responses to the attacks that happen, and thinking, this guy has something to say, and paying me a visit, but I would shy away from saying that, because one of you guys would call me 'egotistic'..... Oh hang on, you already have!



      Not egotistical to recognise from the way people write and think where they may be less understanding than someone else.

      If we were discussing auto mechanics and the procedure for running a successful car repair business, I would not call you 'egotistic' if you to pointed out that you just maybe had a better grasp on things automotive than I do.

      You tell us that you had three years bible study under someone who was not a minister but was a criminal con artist, and apparently never had a Holy Spirit experience.

      Marks area of expertise seems more in Internet marketing of coffee machines and property, and Cagsil I confess I have no idea what he does for an actual living, nor whether he has ever actually read the bible with understanding, so let's ignore him for now.

      To me it's actually quite simple:

      Someone who has 42 years experience as a humanist non believer, and 18 years experience as a Holy Spirit filled believer, could conceivably have a better grasp of scripture than a non believer or someone who believed in the circumstances you described (which were hardly liable to lead you to a real understanding of faith)

      They may even understand where the non believer was coming from in their arguments, and recognise the forms of attacks and reasoning behind them.

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Funny thing you call a fellow christian a criminal when it suits you.
        Alan was a fanatical religionist like yourself who lived for "the word" He was also a liar and a thief, but never lied any differently than any other fanatic I have met who will lie, misrepresent or slander in a futile attempt to justify the contemptible invisible impossible fairytale.

        The thing Alan could do was a skill I see amongst religionists often in this very forum. A complete blindness to his ego, logic and common sense was his area of expertise.
        Go for it, I'm sleeping.

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Actually you called 'Alan' a criminal and con artist, not me, I only repeated what you said.

          You can look at my new 'dust my shoes' image which will replace commentary when all it is doing is replying to secularists disruption attempts.

          I like it, it will serve better than writing 'Blather, Bather, Blather'

          http://bestquotes4you.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/nonsense.jpg

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        God is good for business wink

  36. TamCor profile image80
    TamCorposted 5 years ago

    I think that everyone has forgotten what Julianna was aiming for in the original post...

    What a shame that even for one of the sweetest hubbers here, we can't keep this thread on topic.

    Sorry Julianna...your heart was, as always, in the right place! smile

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well Earnest and I were actually having a sweet and good time until Mark Knowles decided to disrupt things, then the rest just went pear shaped, which was his intent of course, look back a few pages and it was fun.

      Julianna, apologies if I assisted in your topic being hijacked, by replying, as you can see I have now started popping an image on their replies, in the hope that we can get back to civilised communications, but I fear it has gone too far on this topic.

      I will now unfollow the topic and stay out.

  37. Cammie 1016 profile image61
    Cammie 1016posted 5 years ago

    Agreed. I'm Christian too and I have a cousin who can't decide what religion she wants since her mon's a Christian and her dad's an athiest. I' m trying to lead her toward my religion.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Please. Don't. Stop trying to lead her toward your religion. smile

  38. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    http://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2010/09/20/1285005638-bear_hug.jpg

    To all. The line starts at the right. smile

  39. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Mamy people who have forumed-da dummed da -dum, probably think that I am a die hard Christian ! I'm not , Im only a believer ,  My only real mission in the forums has been to call out the fact that almost all of the discourse is  in fact ! from the non-s!  And everybody knows that it is THE  much more tolerant Believer that will alway imbrace the non believer!  Just my oppinion ! And I know  that.  So here's a group hug from me to all the atheistic intellectual idealists who are to follow posting from here.

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A horseback that was the most round about way to ask for a group hug I've ever read. Did you not want a hug?

  40. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Emile , Oh ya come on ! Bring it on! Dont be touching my butt now....!

  41. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    Oh, my!
    http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/princessbride.jpeg

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The really nice thing here was that both Wesley and Inigo Montoya were the good guys, thanks for selecting one of my favourite films to illustrate this post!

      I can quote from the script I have watched it so many times with my family, it is a classic Christmas film for us.

      It has romance, adventure and a moral tale.

      I have been attempting to withdraw from this topic for two days, it seems they will not let me do so, unless I cede to them the last word.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I love this movie too. A classic. You know, there's no shame in letting someone else have the final word. It doesn't mean they win. You know?

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, I know, but I guess that as an Alpha male it is difficult, and these guys wind me up, which is the intention anyway.

          Coming back when someone has 'left the field' and making a snide remark just annoys me, especially when whoever leaves it is not really 'here' anyway, and I have no idea who they really are as they never write any hubs.

          I will quit out for a while and ignore the insults, and try not to hand too many out either.

          Thanks.

          1. 0
            jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So an animal still(like any other human)?  Is there democracy and the principles of equality  in your part of the world?

            We have managed to control our animal instincts and become more human, so evolve, if possible!!

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              When was the last time a dog or monkey signed up to go to war lol

              The animals make the humans look dumb.

              1. 0
                jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Only you can speak for yourself.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Likewise wink

              2. 0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Have you ever seen a pack of dogs rip another animal apart? A group of chimpanzees go out on what can only be viewed as a murder mission? Those animal instincts are the ones that  we reflect with our violence.

                But, have you ever seen a dog feed their neighbor? Create government programs to house the poor? Would a chimpanzee pull the coat off of their back to offer it to a homeless monkey?  Probably not. Animals don't make us look dumb, although some of our actions can reflect those of dumb animals.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Man kind has a choice, can reason.

                  Animals are geared to survive, not reason.

                  Liked your last paragraph. Enjoyed it.

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Humans are out of control, the prisons are full of humans not animals.

              1. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Humans are just a different type of animal. wink They are called mammals. wink

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Just a label ,that I dont wear wink

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It only means that you refuse to agree with scientific discovery of knowledge about the human species. Good show on you. wink

      2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Is the last word really so important?  Maybe you should think about why.

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Melissa,

          I make no claim to be perfect, and you are right, maybe I should examine why I need the last word when in reality I don't even want to reply at all to these creeps.

          I guess it's having been an Alpha for 50 of my 60 years and having difficulty allowing trolls to make snide remarks.

          Must spend less time in the forums and more time with my family or writing!

          Thanks

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It wasn't meant as an insult... Sorry about the wording, I'm out of coffee filters so I am without my fix for today smile

            I had an argument with my ex once that he won hands down.  I can't remember what it was about but it this was the end:

            Him: You... you are so....
            Me:  Persistent?
            Him: Actually, the word is "relentless"

            In the four years of therapy that the 13 year marriage resulted in, I learned quite a bit about myself. One of the most important lessons was the last word doesn't mean that you have proven the other person wrong, it doesn't mean that you have forced agreement (usually verbal relentlessness leads to the opposite effect), it doesn't mean they have learned anything.  It just means that you (meaning a general you, not you in specific) have driven the other person into submission. 

            I love being right... I mean seriously love it.  But... I don't to be the kind of person that makes someone give up their point of view just to be able to live in peace.

            This addressed to you, but it really wasn't aimed at you... It was just me bringing up a general point.

  42. Levertis Steele profile image83
    Levertis Steeleposted 5 years ago

    @AEvans: You are so right. My new attitude: I am embracing others because Jesus embraces me and asks me to love my fellow man to show my love for Him.

    1. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's more like it. smile ((((Hugs))) But I do have to say I am enjoying this thread, it is so much fun! big_smile

      1. Lord De Cross profile image63
        Lord De Crossposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Can't we get along for once!!?

        1. AEvans profile image70
          AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          la di da, la di da, wouldn't that be nice smile Only if......tongue

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Did you have a Beach Boys song in mind when you wrote this?

            "Maybe if we hope and wish and pray it may come true"

            Wouldn't it be nice, la di la la di la la....

            http://youtu.be/L--cqAI3IUI

            1. Lord De Cross profile image63
              Lord De Crossposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              http://s3.hubimg.com/u/5602562_f248.jpg
              Are we waiting for a miracle then??

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I think we are if we ever expect non believers to 'embrace' believers.

                1. lone77star profile image89
                  lone77starposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Perhaps a conversion like that of Saul of Tarsus?

                  Some might be ready for such a miracle. Others might shrug it off, deny it, hide it, go crazy from it, or merely think someone slipped LSD in their last meal.

                  1. earnestshub profile image87
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And some can think for themselves.

            2. AEvans profile image70
              AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Lolollo! big_smile Actually I was thinking about a Disney song and I believe it was from Cinderella! lololo! big_smile Yes definitely Cinderella, it is now back in my head. smile(((hugs))

  43. 0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    Do believers understand the concept of unconditional hugs? Seriously. I've never seen people go so far out of their way to alienate, and then say 'give us a squish'.

    The whole point of the thread appeared to be an attempt to  get believers to be the first to set the differences aside for a moment. Not ask the nonbelievers to swallow an insult.

    Ego. It will never be denied.

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ((((Hugs)))  Come on, give us a squish smile

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Aw. <hugs> That's how to ask for a squish. smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Im a hugger and when I worked in this other place for a while ,the other person hugging didnt like showers lol...ohhhh that sure was a special kinda hug-took my breathe away lol

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol I used to carry a pack of mints to pop and share with a coworker who had horrendous breath, every time he stopped in for a chat; I don't know what I would have done if he was a hugger. Changed jobs, I guess.

          2. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm a hugger, but being a male I don't worry too much about bad smells.

            Once you have done a thousand nappies you become immune to how things and people smell. lol

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Oh trust me I thought that too ,I mean some of the nappy days would have halted any further wars (insert green face) lol

              ..But the memory forgets ...temporarily ,its when I think Im immune ,I get a reality check!

              lol @ manly smells..ahem

  44. aware profile image70
    awareposted 5 years ago

    the majority of the word non believer  . is believer.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You need to explain what you are saying here. smile

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It is a Math thing!    It is a nine to three thing.

    2. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And the significance of that is?

      most of the word insignificant is significant...... so what?

  45. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    OK    goodnit  Yal.

  46. 68
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?

    "Although I am Christian why do we believe we have to argue about religion? Shouldn't we be embracing those, who are non-believers instead of telling them why they should believe?"

    Human beings love wisdom and arguments; there is no harm if the Christian highlight the wisdom in the verses of Bible; instead of just quoting them.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thats true,I do both.

      Often personal testimoney is ridiculed on a public forum though.
      But its also  a natural thing to share what someone has done for you ,or effected you in some positive way.

      I will always give God the glory for what He has done for me.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Please quote any of your posts where you have mentioned a quote from the Bible with the wisdom highlighted by Bible of the teaching in the quote.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh there are several spanning over a period of many months, um ,happy to do it ,if there was any point to it ?

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Just quote one; if you please.

  47. daisybev profile image60
    daisybevposted 5 years ago

    I am brand new to hub so hope I am doing this right.   I just wanted to say I agree with AEvens.  We all have our own beliefs and truths.  I think most of us are on the same journey.  Its just we all have to take our own path to get to our destination.  some of us fall in pits along the way. We ponder why we fell, and pick ourselves on and get back on our path.  or if that path is not working, then find a new direction.  Life is a journey after all.
    Thanks for allowing me to speak here
    Daisybev

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Welcome Daisy!!

      and yes you are doing everything correct smile

      Just be yourself, obey the rules (which Im sure you will) and ignore the bullies.

      Humor will be your best friend here. smile

    2. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Oh Daisy, you can speak anytime and thanks for your bravery on speaking your piece  of mind. smile Welcome! smile

      1. daisybev profile image60
        daisybevposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks.  I use to post on beliefnet.com and loved the energy.  I am looking forward to sharing more.

        1. AEvans profile image70
          AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          We are looking forward to your replies. smile

  48. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    I would leave the embracing to the more Christian than I , I kind of enjoy fencing with the fools of 'intellect', We all know who they are , the bitter and disillusioned who can't help but show up in the forums just to show thier lack of respect . These are the same ones that flow around the internet disrepecting anyone and everyone they can . They are so unhappy with thier lives that they wish everyone else  to live  the same selfish and bitter existence that they suffer. Real christians are far too kind ,too lenient, too "turn your other cheek " to realy call them out for such disrespect. I choose to "tell it like it is "with them , I'll leave the embracing to those with more patience.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Fools of intellect? And you talk about the name calling of others? WOW!
      I'm sure that not everyone knows of them, so why not bring out the names? Because, when you do, you'll get pounced on.
      Lack of respect? Your lack of respect is already shown in this particular post. As for those who are bitter or disillusioned? Well, I know some are bitter and some are disillusioned, however, I'm sure you're unable to tell the difference between who is which. lol
      Well, I guess this statement isn't talking about me, but is talking about others who are probably not even members here. lol
      Now this is quite a statement. Not to mention it's completely uninformed.
      Any true Christian(true follower of Jesus) would never go into a forum to talk about their beliefs in the first place.
      You chose to "tell it like it is" with them? Actually, you show off your own level of understanding and lack of knowledge, more than you do anything else. Too bad you don't seem to grasp that.

      1. tsmog profile image86
        tsmogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        This is most definitely a paradox you have presented Cagsil. If I agree with your statement "Any true Christian(true follower of Jesus) would never go into a forum to talk about their beliefs in the first place," I face the dilemma of the observers objectivity of my subjectivity. Just kidding. Or, can it be answered without "talking" and only be agreeing, yet the question of exposure becomes relevant.

        OK, I confess I am a believer in g(G)od, but don't want to discuss my beliefs regarding Jesus. Oh wait a minute, you didn't say belief in Jesus, you said beliefs. Whew! In that case I don't believe in anything. Oh, wait that gives me away too! It's been a long day of reading I think I am confused - (grin). Man, unless you get in the beginning of a thread these can be tedious, but fun.

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hey Tsmog, give me your definition on "g/God" and we'll start from there. However, if you find your definition matches that of religion, then don't bother. lol

          1. tsmog profile image86
            tsmogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Simply, I do not accept or have a system of belief(s) surrounding religion, formal or otherwise. However, I have been exposed, subjected to, or manipulated by the socialized processes we or at least 'I' encounter both within a life(time) or daily.

            My definition of g(G)od or g/God (I did that originally to be respectful, but I see it is senseless) "there, out there, somewhere, Mr. Sulu."

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol lol

              1. tsmog profile image86
                tsmogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I learned we do better at hubpages if we use the forums. I think I will discover time to be here now and then. I picked on you because you caused a welcome feeling on that other thread about truth. Thanks then and now. And now for the big wow factor big_smile I learned just now how to do smilies tongue and I have to go to work neutral

                1. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  cool

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for showing respect for those who are selfish, disillusioned and bitter, who are so unhappy they suffer with existence.

      So, you showed up in this forum to offer your respect? roll

      1. AEvans profile image70
        AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        oh boy. tongue

  49. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Perhaps because I'm not part of an organized religion I can be more  observant of both sides from the center . This allows me a clarity in my judgement that shows purely and simply that you guys are pure "aginners" ! And its always the same . Non believers trying to dis-prove someone elses faith. Constantly spewing forth  with the phlem of the bitter ! And just what are "aginners ", just that one percenter thats against the this and against that. And for what the pure pleasure of disrespecting others without consequence.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You're never objective? Go figure.
      Clarity, You? Yeah right.
      Bad perception as per usual.
      I cannot speak for all non-believers, but I'm not attempting to dis-prove someone's faith. I just show they how their actions, like yours are irrational.
      Your statements are nothing more than pure irrational conjecture.
      Disrespecting others without consequences? WOW! Talk about foolishness.

    2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      aginners,
      learned a new word wink sounds like a good description for that nagging dry kinda cough that wont go away after a bout of the flu hmm

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        haha
        I like your definition, and ahorseback's too.

  50. mulberry1 profile image90
    mulberry1posted 5 years ago

    I wouldn't count myself as a believer, nor as a non-believer. I guess I'm leaving the option open that God exists and so forth. I cannot prove he does or does not.   

    Anyway, my thoughts are that if one feels the Bible provides guidance for life, it is guidance aimed at that individual. One should not read it, interpret it, and immediately apply it to others.  It is for your own private use. It would seem to me, you should think primarily of yourself and how it applies to you, rather than how it applies to all of those other sinners out there. Basically, I consider that to be true of any type of self-help book as well.

    As a person who hasn't really spent a great deal of time reading the Bible I can't say for sure, but I doubt that it tells people to read it, and then enforce it. Perhaps they should live as an example, provide witness (?) etc., but in general, I doubt He expects believers to sit in judgement of others.

    I know that the Christians whom I hold in highest esteem live their beliefs rather than outwardly foist them on others. I probably feel the same about atheists.

    Anyway, it's with that frame of mind that I feel believers can embrace non-believers.

 
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