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The objective of a demon. Demonic Possesion.

  1. thoughthole profile image97
    thoughtholeposted 5 years ago

    In a case of demonic possesion what is it that the possesor is trying to acheive, and why? Is the objective to have a romp in human form, to make people aware, to be a terrorist of sorts, or something else?

    1. robilyn profile image72
      robilynposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      When God cast Satan out of Heaven and placed him on Earth, he also sent the angels that followed Satan. In essence, God gave Satan the ability to reign the Earth if only for a short time. Knowing this, Satan uses his abilities to torment, persuade and find those weak enough to fall short of their faith. For those unfortunate people, we see and hear about how destructive demonic possession can be. However, I also believe that a person who has great strength can be possessed and not ever know. I have witnessed a person that not only spoke in a voice not of their own, but use sign language while speaking an unfamiliar language. It has been said that those with the most faith are tormented more than anyone else. Yes.. I think that those who are weak, then possessed, will do things they never would have if not possessed. Yes.. I believe this is very amusing to Satan as he uses God's children as puppets. The demons are having fun because this is their advantage to do what they can to overcome God's people.

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
        Mikel G Robertsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        hmm

        I thought, according to the Bibles, God sent the Devil to Hell?

        1. Disappearinghead profile image86
          Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Considering that the Hebrew scriptures do not contain any such account of a satan and angels being cast out of Heaven, then I'm not inclined to believe it.

          Revelation 12 mentions something but the book was only included in the bible in AD 397, and only then because a Catholic committee reckoned it was written by John the Apostle, for which there is scant evidence. Had it been written by someone called Fred, it would not have been included. Many bishops rejected it, as did the Syrian and Eastern Orthodox Church, and Martin Luther.

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
            Mikel G Robertsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Personally I don't believe in any of the 'boogiemen' notions. My point was she said Satan was sent to Earth, not Hell. This is the first time I have seen a belief of Satan being sent to Earth (to rule no less) and is why I questioned it.


            ***Your statement of "scant evidence" could be used against the entirety of the bibles. (You can't use the Bibles to prove the Bibles).

            1. Disappearinghead profile image86
              Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Mmmm hmm

            2. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              LOL
              "You can't use the Bibles to prove the Bibles"

              You cant use the book that reveals God to know about God.

              Mmmm hmm

          2. profile image60
            WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Disappearinghead, your opinion that spirits don't exist is only irrelevant to what's real.

            In this topic, as much as you'd love to exercise your opinions, it's NOT what's it's about. Your opinion and inaccurate sources DON'T MATTER, so stop feeding the public your blind lies.

            There are MANY incidents where people experience spiritual activity in modern day, INCLUDING MYSELF - so for you to say it's nonexistent because you don't believe in it, while its also stated in the Bible numerous times, even times where Jesus cast them out of people, is not only very ignorant but selfish and frowned upon. Get that in your head.

            You should seriously work on your facts, instead of making up and believing fake facts, you're sending curves to people that shouldn't be sent, especially those who don't know of this topic. You should just start reading instead of trying to learn with your eyes and ears closed.

            1. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You should write a hub about it then and show us your sources for this revelation.

              consider when you do:
              1) that paul equated demons to idols and purported that idols are nothing.
              2) Jesus instead of saying, i am going to cure your anarism, heal your veritigo and fix that spina bifida he used the language of the time because:
              John 16:12   I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

              Also note that he kept all his new revelations to kingdom business, judgment, afterlife, redemption - the gospel - he never affected their society in areas of science. He left the orbit of the earth to Galileo for example.

              And please in your hub address the difference between the OT and NT in the area of demonology.

              thankyou

              1. LookingForWalden profile image60
                LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Keep in mind you weren't there and are now interpreting a book. Some people may interpret it differently.

                Some may be more enlightened or intelligent.

                What then?

                Once you admit to having to interpret the bible you acknowledge that it is fallible.

                1. profile image60
                  WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It's meant to be interpreted one way.
                  One meaning for all Scripture.
                  Just in case you didn't understand, 1.

                  1. profile image60
                    WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Not one meaning for all Scripture; All Scripture has their own meanings; but only one meaning for each Scripture; not meant to be interpreted by us - so don't look at it from your own opinion, but instead find the only real one.

              2. profile image0
                Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Two thousand swine ran off a cliff and into the sea after the devils entered into them.  You cannot explain that with any credibility by saying it was only a mental illness the man had.

              3. chuckbl profile image82
                chuckblposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Brother, I will write that hub for you.

                1. chuckbl profile image82
                  chuckblposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Written. You seem to be very naive as to what Demonic Possession actually is. Even from the view point of someone who doesn't believe in it, which is very arguable, you don't really seem to know what you are talking about, or any facts surrounding it. We don't need to look at the NT or the OT, why would we? We can take examples from modern day. Do some research and then come back with a decent argument why you think it doesn't exist.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    This comment from your hub sums it up pretty well...

                    "If you don't want to believe in Demonic Possession, no one can make you. "

                    lol

          3. profile image60
            WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You believe facts right off the bat because they "click" in your twisted, self-opinionated mind.
            Facts that are wrong and inaccurate, facts of blasphemy.

            Let go of the world, let go of reality, because it's only your reality, not the TRUTH about reality.
            Only thing will you be able to learn; without pride in your eyes.
            I'll say it again. Pride is pitiful.

            1. profile image60
              WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              then*

              Withchcraft was performed during Moses' time, if you want Old Testament facts.
              Spirits are required to perform witchcraft, especially powers of Satan & his demons.
              GET YOUR FACTS DOWN BEFORE YOU SPEAK AGAIN, YOU SPEAK OF NOTHING BUT INACCURACIES.

              1. profile image0
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                oh yes, as your hands are upon the ouija cursor the demon also takes hold and move that same cursor.

                So the angels of heaven have this ability to also possess humans or is that just an extra power of the fallen ones? whom i guess fell with all their powers and got a little extra. When we see angels we see that they are seen of people when they deliver their message but somehow these fallen ones prefer to work invisibly. hmmm.

                witchcraft
                http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/W/WIT … ITCHCRAFT/
                you might find that enlightening.

                1. profile image60
                  WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You're an idiot, you might find that enlightening.
                  Seeing as you're lower than an idiot.
                  Stop asking me or these Hubbers and find out for yourself.

                  Just because you can't see their invisibility doesn't mean they're not there, or hear them. Ugh, tired of you kids- not gonna explain furthur. Just do some real research please.

    2. Seeker7 profile image95
      Seeker7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      My understanding of posession is that it's main aim is to disrupt and create havoc in the person's every day life and health - including probably their beliefs. But some schools of thought say that the possessor is actually targeting others, not the person being possessed - how true this is, I've no idea. But if true possession does occur, then from what I've read about it's the person being possessed who suffers more than other people around them.

      1. profile image0
        Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The main goal of Satan is get between you and God, between you and your relationship with God, to get between you and your praise, and to get between you and your worship.  His job is also to get people to not believe in God and Jesus Christ. 

        Those who are possessed by demonic forces will disrupt any and all worship they can.  They will go to Church and cause division among the brethren.  They will cause doubt to come to believers.  They will accuse believers of wrongdoing and try to convince everyone that they are right. 

        In all that they try to do, they cannot keep a soul from praising and worshiping God.  This is demonstrated when Jesus came upon the man who dwelt in the tombs.  Mark 5:6  But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

        1. profile image60
          WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Very right!!! I've experienced demon possessions first-hand.
          Spent a lot of times with possessed persons.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol

          2. profile image0
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So those people whom are possessed and not able to be released from them have a salvation loop hole.

            Sorry lord i would have repented and come to you but i had a demon inside controlling me.

            interesting

            1. profile image60
              WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey, interesting that you're so old and still have a mindset of a stubborn, close-minded teenager.

        2. profile image60
          WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thoughthole, this is your answer.  Virgil Newsome couldn't have been any more correct.

        3. thoughthole profile image97
          thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok, I can see some benefit on the part of the demon in this scenario. The demon is a mole of sorts working through an individual to influence thoughts and opinions of those it interacts with through the possesed, but  what of the possesed individual?

          1. profile image0
            Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            He lived in the tombs among the dead, no man could tame him, chains could not hold him, he cut himself on stones and he was naked.  Jesus cast out the devils and he was in his right mind fully clothed and calm.

          2. profile image60
            WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What of? Everything that they can get.
            Let me break it down for you, thoughthole.
            Demons are agents who work for THE Devil AKA Satan, Lucifer, the beast, the dragon, etc.
            Since Satan can't be omniscient like God, he has an army of ranked spiritual militia known as demons working for him; and against God.
            ...Against anything that has to do with God's Will, specifically of those listed in the Bible; i.e., commandments and the many warnings God tells us not to do, for there are curses for going against Him.

            Demonic spirits are VERY aware of the whole Bible, what God stands for, and his instructions for people.
            They know y(our) past, but can't read your mind. Meaning they know what you've learned about God, and what you haven't - they can only prey on what you do not know, such as his warnings & commandments.

            This is because we can't escape his curses for wrongdoing, whether we believe in Him or not - whatever actions they may be, there will be consequences because we're all created under and by Him - and we can't change that by believing in another religion, or choosing not to believe in God at all.

            Atheists are the easiest for them, self-explanatory, because they don't know enough about God to have a "OF COURSE, NO WONDER" or "THAT'S WHO GOD IS" , etc. moment in their lives.
            But not to worry, many atheists have been revealed to by God himself, forcing them to believe in Him - these are more rare situations though.

            Bottom line, just to make it short: Satan and his demons (fallen angels, called fallen angels because they're cast out of heaven, not because they "fell") know they're going to Hell, the place prepared just for them any anyone who follows them and their wickedness, and want to take as many souls (us) as they can.
            This flesh isn't us, the flesh is our gift, but it can be vulnerable to "possession" if we aren't careful, or if we don't have the right protection(of salvation).
            WE are our souls, which is what controls the flesh and the mind, the mind and flesh is vulnerable to control by these unclean(demonic) spirits, or moved by the Holy Spirit(represents God/Jesus).
            Our souls are our individuality expressed.
            Society wants to "mold" us into what they want, by limiting us and our minds (via fluoride in tapwater, etc.) [ Fluoride limits focus in  many people, and without focus, you have little control of your mind; leaving space for vulnerability ]

            You get the point right?

            1. thoughthole profile image97
              thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No I think I am lost on this one. Sorry.

              1. couturepopcafe profile image59
                couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Don't worry too much about it.  The only demons are the ones you have created in your own mind.  You are a product not only of your environment but of what you think and feel.  If you continue to buy into the demons in your mind, they will grow.  Whatever you think about and put your energy into, grows. 

                Decide to take a stand and create new realities for yourself.  By this time next year, you'll clean out the demons.  Don't go looking for trouble.  You will surely find it.

          3. profile image60
            WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If there's good there's bad, if there's the Devil, there is definitely God; the opposites.
            The list of evidence of God's existence goes on.......just think about your life and blessings and the opportunities you've been given.
            Coincidence isn't that generous.
            It's people who ruin their lives and blame God for it who are very lost.
            They brought it upon themselves, or their ancestors.
            All can be cleansed through God, though, when done correctly.

            God's power and mercy are limitless - when you find it, when you acknowledge it. He can change anything at any time..

            I've seen numerous possessed persons healed by the grace of God.
            Many who didn't really know about Him.......
            They do now.

            1. profile image60
              WalkWithJesusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              ...Not to be confused with exorcism, which is a spell used to cast out demons...
              God's power is way better, cleaner, way more effective, and the right one, not using a spell (form of witchcraft) on an evil entity, as it may end fatally for the host and the exorcist.

    3. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      roll

      Yet another absurdly ridiculous thread.

    4. kess profile image60
      kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A demon cannot be unless it become you..that's is its ultimate goal....

      Being


      ....and with its being everything else is.

      1. thoughthole profile image97
        thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So how can it be me if it does not exist before becoming me? If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound? This is fun!

        1. kess profile image60
          kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well then who are you?

          who what has established that identity?

          1. thoughthole profile image97
            thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I am thoughthole I established my identity.

            1. kess profile image60
              kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Since one's identity defines his purpose,

              Have you ever wonder about the name thought hole,

              Maybe you have not noticed its sinigficance with the nature of demons.

              Maybe you should reconsider how you call yourself.

              1. thoughthole profile image97
                thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I created the name thoughole, so yes I have given some significant thought to it and it has a significant meaning to me. As far as its relationship with demonsI have not noticed any, and I struggle to find any relationship between the two now. It sounds as if you see some common ground I am interested to know what that might be. And no I will not reconsider what I call myself, I am very happy with my hubpages identity.

                1. kess profile image60
                  kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Since you have not known who you truely are, you have been taught by deception ( demons).

                  Now this deception can only teach you that which is himself, so therefore he taught you that you are thoughthole which is himself.

                  Now  deception who formely cannot exists in and of itself, now has an identity and is thoughthole and is you.

                  All deception come from one place for one purpose, they are all agents of death also called the bottomless pit.

                  So a hole by nature is limited because its boundaries are clearly difined , unlike a thought which has no difinitive boundaries.....

                  Yet you are thoughthole limited encompassing the unlimited...an impossible situation which exist because of you.

                  Anytime deception acquires an identity it becomes a demon.

                  1. thoughthole profile image97
                    thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank You Kess, I appreciate that you have shared your opinion however I still fail to see the realationship, and I honesty don't really understand your circular thinking as I read it, it just does not make sense to me. I choose not to live my life from a fear base, and none of my thoughts including my hubpages identity have been derived from a fear base. Neither thoughts nor holes are evil in my perception, as a matter of fact both are quite natural, and the two combined merely represent a collective place where thought is stored. I suppose like all other things in life a thought, a hole, or a thoughthole have the ability to be used in either a positive or negative capacity but inherantly they are not good nor evil.
                    Something only becomes a figurative demon if the observer gives it that power. I think that this statement may captalize on some what you have been trying to convey, or I could be wrong, I am really not sure.
                    I appreciate you sharing your "thoughts" all the same.

    5. gamergirl profile image61
      gamergirlposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is no such thing as demons.  "Possession" is either a vehicle for insane "priests" to reinforce the brainwashing within an unsettled church environment, or  an excuse parents use because they don't actually parent their children.

      "Oh no, my kid is misbehaving, bring in the priest, he/she must be possessed by demons!"

  2. profile image0
    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

    In a case of demonic possesion what is it that the possesor is trying to acheive, and why? Is the objective to have a romp in human form, to make people aware, to be a terrorist of sorts, or something else?

    Ya gotta wonder why something that has an ability to travel the world, see places and things and romp around with others of its kind, wouldn't do just that, but instead it places itself in human bodies and cripples them. Imagine a demon spending a persons lifetime inside a crippled body that couldn't walk. The demon be all like saying.. man hurry up will ya, its a two minute walk to the front lawn.. or be in some cancerous body all layin around with no energy, watchin endless hours of mindless tv.

    but then again, these 1/3 angels created by God musta been the stupidest angels created.

    1. thoughthole profile image97
      thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Brotheryochanan, you comment embraces my thoughts at the time I posted this. It just did not seem to me like a demon would fullfill a need or satisfy any kind of secondary gain, especially not that of turning people away from god that I hear sited so often. If I witnessed someone speaking in other voices, contourting, moving things, while siting biblical blobbidy blu I think I would probably believe more strongly in the existance of Christian god. It just does not add up.

  3. Disappearinghead profile image86
    Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago

    Read the Hebrew scriptures; there's no such thing as a demon or a demon possession. These ideas cannot be found in Judaism and therefore have no place in Christianity.

    The Jews only came to believe in demons and possession after they assimilated Zoroastrian ideas from the Persions at the latter part of the exile. 400 years later they are ingrained in popular Jewish superstition.

    In Jesus time, only the Hebrew scriptures existed so anyone who believed in demons had unbiblical beliefs.

    In the absence of understanding about mental illnesses such as autism, bipolar disorders, depression, etc, of course people believed in demons.

    Use your brains people, how could a spirit entity like a demon possibly inflict a physical illness? Magic? Sickness is caused by bacteria, viruses, the environment, poor immune systems, and genetics.

    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      nice catch smile

      There are many loopholes in the demons exist theory. Obviously there is a reason why the Nt and Ot vary so much on this topic.

      Fallen angels... lol.. thats the funniest idea yet.

      1. thoughthole profile image97
        thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Umm, at the risk of being a dummy, what is Nt & Ot?

        1. AshtonFirefly profile image82
          AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          New Testament and Old Testament

          1. thoughthole profile image97
            thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ohhhhh! Thx

  4. Will Apse profile image88
    Will Apseposted 5 years ago

    Sometimes these forums are like the Land that Time Forgot.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Lol, true. smile

    2. couturepopcafe profile image59
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Good fodder for your next book!  lol

    3. thoughthole profile image97
      thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I had no idea my questions would start a holy war of sorts. It is all quite fascinating.

  5. thoughthole profile image97
    thoughtholeposted 5 years ago

    Wow! I have not checked this forum for a very long time. I had thought it petered out after 2 comments. Here I check it out today to find a number of comments and ongoing arguments, amazing!

  6. recommend1 profile image67
    recommend1posted 5 years ago

    Treating mental illness as demonic possession is insanity in itself.

    When are you guys going to get with the programme and realise this crap was debunked when religious folk at least knew what they were talking about, you know, before the whole crock exploded into a business with thousands of different voices at the money tit.

    1. couturepopcafe profile image59
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Demonic possession is just brain chemistry gone wrong.

      1. melpor profile image88
        melporposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree. What people calling demonic possession is simply a manifestation of the symptoms of a neurological condition. This idea of demonic possession is a carry over from antiquity when people did not understand the human mind. People back then used terms such as witchcraft, witches, demons, angels, gods, and etc to explain anything and everything that they did not understand.

  7. AshtonFirefly profile image82
    AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago

    This is an interesting topic. It seems that most people who have experienced what they feel to be a "demonic possession" are the ones who have believed in it the most strongly. That is natural to feel that way if you believe in the existence of demons and demon-possession. Or if you feel you have seen demons or heard them speaking to you. Some call it insanity, some call it tapping into another realm. I would just suggest that if someone truly believes in demonic possession, to not ridicule their fear that they might have some sort of demonic influence working on them. They don't want to think that they are possessed, either. But for them, it's very real. I honestly don't know what to think about it. Sure, I've seen stuff. Sure, I've heard voices. Sure, I've been told I'm possessed by a demon. (heck, I've even been told I AM a demon smile haha ) but it doesn't really matter what I'm told. And I could have been hallucinating at the time. The mind is capable of some pretty weird shit.
    I once went to a church somewhere where there was a guest speaker speaking. I'd never met her before in my life. I didn't really talk to any of the people there and never told them anything going on in my life. At the time, I was cutting my arms and considering suicide. So, when I actually officially met the lady, she looked at me and told me I had a demonic spirit of suicide on me.
    It's stuff like that that confuses me. How could she know that? Did God tell her? Or was it coincidence, like did I just give off that vibe or whatever? etc. etc. So I go back and forth in my opinion of it.

    1. profile image0
      Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      One of the gifts of the Holy Ghost is discernment of spirits.  She was able to "see" the spirit by way of this gift.

      1. couturepopcafe profile image59
        couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ashton - Seriously?  How could she know that?  You were cutting yourself and considering suicide.  It's not difficult for an experienced eye to see someone in distress.  The demonic spirit on you was in your head.  Not something that came of itself and got into you and took over.  You created it from thoughts and images you allowed into your head and allowed it to take over.  There's a difference.  Demonic thoughts have no power except that which we allow it.  Remember this all your life - what you think about expands.  Only you have the power to control your own thoughts.

        Note:  Sometimes brain chemistry is out of whack and severely lacking in something thus prohibiting mental health.

        1. AshtonFirefly profile image82
          AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          She saw me for like a half second before she made that assertion. That’s what I’m saying. An experienced eye can tell if someone is in distress. (I can even do that.) An experienced eye can’t tell that person various other things about their past in a half a second of seeing them.  I made several other posts describing the situation in detail.
          She was the one who mentioned demonic spirits. Not me. I wasn’t asserting there was one. I was curious as to her method of knowing what was going on and had gone on in my past. I was verbalizing curiosity, not conclusion. (I elaborated on this more in my many later posts on the subject)
          Of course what I think about, expands. I’m very aware of the power of thoughts.  I’m very aware I created a problem in my mind. I’m very aware of the damage I created in my mind. I’m the one who has to deal with the horrible crap that goes on in my mind on a day to day basis which most people don’t know or even care about.  They’re too busy trying to tell me that these things I see don’t exist, enough  to actually care about possibly changing it for me. I never claimed they were demonic.
          I ask that you please don’t address me sarcastically: “Ashton-seriously?” , since you are not me and have not experienced what I have experienced in this area and therefore maybe do not have the same questions as I do. I’m not trying to be a jerk. I’m just getting a little tired of ridicule. You don’t even know the full extent of what happened to me, what has happened to me,  or even what I was trying to say. I even mentioned several options of what COULD have happened, including the possibility that she just "got that vibe" or was extremely intuitive or w/e. I wasn’t making any sort of conclusions whatsoever. The things I have seen and experienced would have me put in a mental hospital in a heartbeat if I told anyone in the psychiatric field. I just choose not to because I don’t think I’d do much good there. I never said this proved demonic spirits in any way or that it proved that there was a God out there or anything. I was sharing thoughts. Maybe I'm just tired of hearing people tell me how wrong I am instead of caring about what's going on. Please don’t be offended or think I’m attacking you. I’m not. Forgive me if I sound harsh. This is just how I feel.

    2. Disappearinghead profile image86
      Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      These people have gained a lot of experience in cold reading in much the same way as fortune tellers. If she noticed your mood and had seen any of your cuts then if she might have had a hunch that she went with. Maybe God did drop an idea in her head that you had considered suicide, then she connected that with her belief in demons and drew the conclusion you had a spirit of suicide.

      Either way, demons don't exist.

      1. AshtonFirefly profile image82
        AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        She saw me for about five seconds before she said that and I was wearing long sleeves. I understand what you're saying.
          And I know that you believe demons don't exist and that nothing I say will change that. Heck I don't even known what to think about everything. I'm just saying as, being what I've been through, and what I've seen, and heard, and felt...it makes everything that much more confusing...

        1. AshtonFirefly profile image82
          AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          guahh stupid computer thing. EDIT: " I understand what you're saying, I'm just not sure how that could have been possible....still, not sure..."
          That's what that paragraph was supposed to say...

          1. thoughthole profile image97
            thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            AshtonFirefly I think its great that you keep your mind open about this, that is a very noble quality. My only comment on your situation would be that whether or not the women really had some divining quality to see a demon beside you, you had one, either literally or figuratively. Other peoples words are meaningless unless we allow them to have meaning in our lives.
            I hope that you have had some success in overcoming that reactive behavior.
            I agree very much with your comments.

            1. couturepopcafe profile image59
              couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              "words are meaningless unless we allow them to have meaning "  couldn't agree more.

    3. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It may appear very real for them that they are possessed by demons, but that's just a medieval superstition for what is little more than a mental issue.



      Why would you listen to a religious speaker who does nothing but fill your head with nonsense? If you were feeling ill, she would probably tell you to use leeches and bloodletting instead of consulting a physician.

      You are not possessed by demons. If you're hearing voices, it's probably just you talking to yourself. No problem.

      If the voices are telling you to do things like hurt yourself or others, it might just be a mild case of schizophrenia which can be treated.

      1. AshtonFirefly profile image82
        AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        what explanation could there be for her knowing about the issue with suicide? I'm not arguine for or against either way...just curious if there are other theories about people knowing things they otherewise shouldn't know...
        And...I don't remember what she spoke about. All I remember is her praying for people.
        I've had a psychlogist refuse to see me because I wouldn't take medication before I went to see her. She said my symptoms sounded like schitzophrenia and if she attempted to talk to me, it might make it worse. In my head I was thinking, "what does she think I'm gonna do? start screaming and making a scene? I'm not taking some stupid drug on the possible chance I have a mental disorder. ha." lol smile

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There are many ways people find out things, none of them have to do with magical demons and other such nonsense.



          Please remember that if a psychologist refuses to see you if you haven't taken your medications, they are only protecting you and themselves from any potential problems. They may not know you won't start screaming and making a scene. Most likely, other patients have done so.

          It's merely a standard precaution, no big deal.

          1. AshtonFirefly profile image82
            AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol I know...about the prescription part. I just hate taking medicine if I don't know what it's going to do, you know? sad I'm more afraid of taking some random drug I've never taken before than to go to a counseling session. I can control myself when I experience what could be considered hallucinations or whatever. I don't lose it. But I guess she had no way of knowing that. smile

          2. AshtonFirefly profile image82
            AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That's just it...she couldn't have known. No one knew. She was a stranger not only to me but to everyone. She did this for not just me but for many people. She knew things about people's pasts, that they never told any anyone. Ever. I'm not saying that proves God or whatever. I'm just saying...it's weird for me and doesn't make sense.. and I'm curious as to scientific theories which  can explain things like that. There's a lot I don't know. I analyze everything.  hmm

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Whether a scientific explanation is not available immediately still doesn't make it possible that she could know things about people using magical powers. That would be jumping to irrational conclusions.

              1. AshtonFirefly profile image82
                AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I didn't say I would come to that conclusion if there isn't one. I said I was curious if there was a scientific explanation that people know of right now for things like that. If there isn't one, then fine. No conclujsions, nothing. Just curious.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Understood. Well done. Thanks. smile

                2. thoughthole profile image97
                  thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Ashton: There are many people that are incredibly intuitive, not to be confused with psychic or divinely driven although they may come across as such, and even they may think that a divine source is providing the information, it feels that way. Intuitive people have the ability to relate characteristics that they note right off in people and situations that tell them something is wrong or something is about to happen, they know these things because they have had past experinces that trigger the inate knowledge. The subconcious stores all experiences that we encounter throughout our life it keeps everything including that which the concious mind throws out as irreleveant, the concious mind has to do this as we are bombarded with stimuli and experiences continually it is more that the concious can process. If the concious mind handled it all it would be a system overload and the computer would crash. Some are very good at tapping into their subconcious either aware or unaware of that ability, it comes across as a magical. The woman you had this experience with could have noticed your tone, your outward appearance, your expressions, the way you carried youself, the way you were dressed, or general vibrance that you either did or did not exude, she may have related these qualities to a person or experience in the past either cognitively, or more likely subconciously. The subconcious often shares in symbols (think of dreams), I am going to go out on a limb and say that demons are fairly symbolic. I would say that if you are looking for a possible sceintfic explanation I think you may have encountered a very experienced wise intuitive woman, you may not even have been aware of how you presented yourself to her, but most of us wear our inner feelings, and thoughts on our sleeve whether we think we are or not. I deal quite a bit in this arena of the subconcious, I am a certified hypnotist by trade, what I have described is very real and can be backed up by sceince. I however find these abilities within our own minds quite stunning, even if it is based on fact it is divine, the human mind is incredible. One of my favorite quotes is from Albert Einstein: "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
                  I sit on the side of everything sceintific or not being a miracle.
                  Did the interaction with this woman have any affect on you and your circumstance?

                  1. AshtonFirefly profile image82
                    AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I understand what you're saying. But...she saw me for a very few seconds before she said this. She looked only at my eyes.  Then she moved on to someone else, saw them for a few seconds seconds, and  said the same thing. This was the case for about 15 people. I could understand, if she was simply telling people how they were feeling or of a problem they might have psychologically. I can even tell that within a few seconds of seeing someone. But she knew of specific details in my past, of others' pasts, that they had not shared with her, nor had anyone else.
                      I respect what you're saying though; and if you've dealt with these areasmore extensively, then you probably know more than I do about it smile But...all these things that you mentioned, don't seem to apply to her given the circumstances.
                      The interaction was that she attempted to "cast out" the"spirit of suicide" which she saw in me. I didn't know what to think about it. I remember that I never really felt any desire to slit my own arms after that, but I know that that could have been the power of suggestion, working. (Like, If I thought it had happened, then I would expect myself to not want to. So I wouldn't want to. Kind of like people who in scientific tests act drunk when they're told that alchohol is in their drink, only to find out later that there was no alchohol in it and they acted that way because they expected it.)
                      I've met alot of intuitive people. I am one and can know exactly what's going on in a person's mind, having just met them, without them telling me, and can even know details about their past in an instant. I don't know how I know it. I just know when I see them. And it's not that I've met someone like that before...the best I can explain is an unexplainable vibe. I knew this about people, and I lived the most sheltered life imaginable. I had literally no friends, no social interaction whatsoever. I was locked in a house six out of seven days of the week and was not given social interaction with anyone. Ever. Yet I still knew details about people's pasts without them telling me, and without having ever encountered anyone with similar issues. I can't even describe to you how socially isolated I was when I started being able to know things about people I shouldn't know.
                      I guess the reason this lady weirded me out is because I am the same way. How do I get the information I get, in my mind?
                    But...what do you think?

  8. Disturbia profile image60
    Disturbiaposted 5 years ago

    Demons? Demionic possession? Seriously?

    1. couturepopcafe profile image59
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Question:  How many ADD kids does it take to recognize demonic possession? 

      Answer:  Wanna ride bikes?

      (Maybe only people with ADD will get this)

  9. arksys profile image90
    arksysposted 5 years ago

    a few reasons of possesion as far as i know are,

    If the demon wants revenge for something that you did to them ... even if it was done by you unintentionally.

    the demon wants to drive you in the wrong direction in life, or sometimes just for the fun of it.

    someone may have done some kind of magic on you where a demon has been sent to make your life difficult either in the form of an illness or when things just don't seem to get done no matter how hard and how many times you try. in the case of an illness the person should see a doctor first and try all that science has to offer before considering magic being done on you.

    lastly the demon may have some kind of affection towards you and may want to stay with you.

    1. thoughthole profile image97
      thoughtholeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Arksys: These are all some great reasons as to why a demon would possess. Your response does provide logic toward a benefit, or gain for the demon itself.

  10. Jerami profile image74
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    A Troubled Man wrote:
    It may appear very real for them that they are possessed by demons, but that's just a medieval superstition for what is little more than a mental issue.

    ==========================================
    ME
       Posessed by demons ?             Posessed by saintly spirits ?

    Sounds like my brother in  law      Sounds like me !!!

    but that "demon" ....  thinks the same thing about ME ??

      I think that we are All posessed  by something ? !

    1. couturepopcafe profile image59
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Better we should possess than be possessed.

  11. Jerami profile image74
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    It has been my experence that people that most often call other people crazy   ...  are most likely, themselves, a little bit on the crazy side?

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You might want to consider getting new friends. lol

  12. Druid Dude profile image59
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    Takes one to know one. Most psychiatrists went into that field to figure themselves out. At least, that's what my psyche instructor told me.

  13. melpor profile image88
    melporposted 5 years ago

    Thoughthole, there is no such thing as being possessed by Satan.  Satan is just an imaginary, mystical being and people need to stop believing in such things.

  14. Claire Evans profile image90
    Claire Evansposted 5 years ago

    Demons feed off fear and suffering.  It is essential to their survival.  Believe it or not, demons don't want to be in hell.  There was a documentary on the Discovery Channel called, "True Horror", that attests to this.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So, you believe in demons and you appear to know what their requirements are for survival.

      And, you're a grown adult?

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        First question for you: What are you doing here on this forum? What attracted you to it?

        I looked up the Discovery Channel's documentary, "True Horror: Demons" with Anthony Head investigating whether demons exist or not.  Unfortunately, the original with the translation of what the possessed say in English is not available.  I could only get hold of a poor version with foreign subtitles.  If you don't get irritated easily by poor video quality, watch it.  After 5 minutes you will get the point anyway.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfnaIYMKigU

        If you would like the translation of the exorcism at 01:21m in English, then look at this:

        Pay attention to 03:49.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YatVCMhwsnA

        Have you ever asked yourself that you may just be wrong?

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Who cares? Irrelevant.



          lol Anthony Head, the actor, from Buffy the Vampire Slayer? So, you actually believe television puts out the truth and is not just looking for ratings? lol



          You've got to be joking. All I saw in that video was two people tying down a girl in a chair while some holy man recites his book.

          Pure ignorance and cruelty from the religiously brainwashed. Absolutely horrible. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the parents who drove that poor girl insane with their religious garbage. They should be charged with child abuse.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You're the one who believes hordes of people just built the pyramids.  You actually believe everything you hear?

            What is wrong with that girl? Is that a natural voice? If it is a mental illness, what is it and how does it make her behave the way she does?

            I think you are wasting your time on this forum.

            You never answered my question: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be wrong and I'm right?

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              LOL! No, I usually go out and do the research unlike yourself who turns to aliens and other silly answers.



              I could just "switch off" to your posts as you recommended I do.



              If I am wrong, at the very least, I have turned to science to seek the answers while you have turned to fantasy. No, you couldn't possibly be right.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Then you couldn't have seen my comment about the pyramids.  Pity...quite a bit of research went into that.  The conclusion I got about the aliens bit is not only due to research but by process of elimination.  The technology needed to build the pyramids just didn't exist supposedly.  The technology to align the pyramids exactly with Orion's Belt is, well, impressive.

                Why do you say, "If I am wrong..." and then state, "No, you couldn't possibly be right." Contradiction, much?

                Science is not the yardstick for truth.  It can't even explain where consciousness came from.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lol



                  You mean the technology to build ramps didn't exist? lol



                  Yet, it is not so impressive to someone who understands math but I can see how it would impress those who don't.



                  Aliens and evil spirits are your conclusions to phenomena that haven't got a shred of evidence to even suggest either one, yet you want to believe and embrace them as if they're truth. How could you possibly be right?



                  Yes, it is.



                  Ah yes, the common error of most believers who turn to fantasy, myths and superstitions for answers when a rational answer isn't staring them in the face. lol

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Never said that the ramps didn't exist.  I'm talking about the technology to pick up those bricks and to cut those bricks to the exact measurements.  Copper tools maybe?

                    I think that the ability of the Egyptians to align the pyramids with Orion's belt is pretty impressive.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              LOL! Whatever mental illness that girl has is completely irrelevant to the fact grown adults believe she is possessed by evil spirits.

              Did we just time travel back to medieval times? lol

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Actually it is relevant.  Just admit you don't know what is wrong with her.  You aren't giving me an argument to work with.  You just saying that is like me saying, "God exists" and that is not acceptable to you, is it?  Since science can prove anything, shouldn't you know what is wrong with her?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Of course I don't know what's wrong with her, that is up to a certified physician to diagnose, not a witch doctor.



                  Saying things like that about science only shows you know little about it. Science doesn't "prove" anything. But, if it's a mental disorder, a certified physician should be able to diagnose her.

                  Pretending evil spirits are possessing her is childish and silly.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It's not pretense.  In that audio I posted, she speaks with different voices and with such strength considering she was dying of starvation.  It's a tragic story, indeed.

        2. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I watched your videos. There's nothing convincing there. I've been acquainted with a few theatrical teenagers who would act like that for attention. They weren't demon possessed.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I wonder what would be convincing to you.  So what happened there? How can you know for sure that this isn't true? How can you state it as a fact?

  15. chuckbl profile image82
    chuckblposted 5 years ago

    I wonder gamergirl... to make such a certain statement, how far have you actually looked into the subject? Have you actually researched anything? Or do you base your views on a couple of hollywood films and a little knowledge through hearsay?

    My bet is the latter.

  16. gamergirl profile image61
    gamergirlposted 5 years ago

    Hey chuck.  You're new around these parts, so I'll let that slide.

    Considering that I base my world view on the substantial evidence provided by personal experience, research, and verifiable knowledge, I would venture to say that the only people basing anything on Hollywood fictions and hearsay are the folk who believe that demons/angels/fairies/ghosts/etc. exist.  Silly deluded folks.

  17. Alastar Packer profile image81
    Alastar Packerposted 5 years ago

    Gamergirl hi. Were the Sumerian, Assyrian, Egyptian, Babylonian, and Persians that knew of demons- were they just insane priests and parents that don't parent their children? What are your thoughts on the ancients' beliefs concerning demon possession?

    1. gamergirl profile image61
      gamergirlposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'd be interested to read even more on the subject, actually, but given that reference to demons has been used in a limited number of senses - all of which are religiously centered to coerce certain behavior, or through hearsay and gossip-threaded accounts, or through works of fiction - you'll just have to indulge me in remaining skeptical and scoffing the concept of demons along with all other manner of fantasy (read: not real) creatures.

      1. Alastar Packer profile image81
        Alastar Packerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Fair enough; your not incorrect in what you say Gamergirl, its just that the scope of demonology and beliefs/experiences are as wide-spread over the non-religious as the religious. The Anneliese Michel 'possession' is a disturbing but intriguing case one can hear on the net. Personally its difficult to accept this tragedy as anything other than something from out-side the young girl. If you've heard them or ever do I'd like to know what you think. They're not for the faint of heart though.

        1. gamergirl profile image61
          gamergirlposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I can't even type about that "possession" without getting horribly angry.  That girl was killed by her family and the priests involved.  No wonder, either, when you're forced to go through an insane process, denied food or drink, or refusing food or drink.  Every person in that situation - mother, father, priests, even the girl herself - is at fault, and religious fanaticism is another contributing factor.

  18. chuckbl profile image82
    chuckblposted 5 years ago

    Your experience of the world has nothing to do with demonic possession, I did in depth research on the subject as part of my masters degree and your arguments whilst true in some cases only skirt the edge of demonic possession. Possession is more widely reported problem now than it has ever been, and not something which you can fling aside as adolescent issues. I have written two hubs on possession, I suggest you read them so that you can apply a little more factual knowledge to your arguments.

    Finally, last I checked, membership duration on hubpages does not make you an expert on any field so I'd appreciate it if you reeled in the patronising tone.

    1. gamergirl profile image61
      gamergirlposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You devoted a portion of your master's degree program to the study of fictional evils and their relation to reality? Interesting use of time.  I mean that.  Fantasy creatures must have been a lovely break from other more applicable and important coursework.

      Nowhere in my prior response to you did I imply that my length of time on HubPages made me an expert on anything, but I'd say that almost 30 years on earth, and most of that spent studying religion when I wasn't devoted to other (far more important and relevant) studies or pursuits, gives me a pretty expert view on the real world and what goes on in it.  Science helps fill in the gaps otherwise.

      1. chuckbl profile image82
        chuckblposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Gamergirl, I appreciate your point of view or rather I appreciate your arguments, and they may very well be right. If you have read my hubs, you will see that I do not state blindly that demonic possession is real, and I also separate my arguments from my religious belief.

        My method of approach is that I have tried to find answers to everything medically, psychologically or anything else that would get rid of the supernatural answer. However, there are some cases where it would seem that supernatural might have to be the answer.

        In the case of Anneliese Michel, you must remember that before she ever underwent an exorcism, she had medical and psychiatric help, to no avail. This of course proves nothing - but if your daughter had become like that and no medical help would work for her, I am sure you would try what you could.

        I cannot say whether or not that was a demonic possession or a result of social upbringing, I do not know, and nor does anybody. And I would also state, as I do in one of my hubs, that I am almost certain, if demonic possession were in fact real, that 99.99% of the cases would be fake/not real at the very least.

        There is recorded footage of exorcisms, where things just cannot be explained, again as I show in my hub. And it is that which interests me.

        The part of my masters degree was obviously not centered on fantasy or fiction, but as a history masters, I looked at witchcraft in the 16th to 18th centuries and further to that, I decided to specialize in demonic possession because it is an interesting subject. I was also fortunate enough to have the world's leading authority (who is an atheist) on the subject lecture me for a few lectures, and I can assure you he came up with some interesting stuff.

        Finally, I reaffirm the fact that I am not telling you or anyone that Demonic Possession is real, only that it should be considered. It would be naive to throw a notion out the window just because it seems to surpass the limits of the human mind.

        I cannot prove God, I cannot prove demonic possession, and I myself am unsure whether I believe in either. But for the latter, sometimes when you have exhausted all other possibilities, you have to accept that the simplest answer that is staring you in the face, might well be the real answer.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That is the usual problem believers have when they come to conclusions based on their beliefs. Rather than just saying they don't know, they instead embrace answers that are pure fantasy in light of not having a rational answer in front of them, even if a rational answer is most likely available.

  19. Alastar Packer profile image81
    Alastar Packerposted 5 years ago

    That could well be the truth in Michel's case and it certainly falls under the category of  religiosity. I can't blame you for not wanting to listen to the audiotapes but bear in mind the poor girl's situation before the insane process began. What caused the unfortunate process to begin. There's a good deal more to that story than whats on the surface. But again gamergirl, your take could be the correct one after all.

 
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