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Will the REAL Christian please stand up?

  1. lucieanne profile image80
    lucieanneposted 5 years ago

    After reading and contributing to so many posts about Christianity on here I'd love for someone to answer this question. Which form (if any)of Christianity is the real deal? It's one thing to get into heated debates over who believes in what religion, but it seems strange to me that there are so many different takes on the one that seems to cause so much distention.
    So which one is right? Catholic? Protestant? Jehovah's witness? Mormon? Baptist? Unitarian? Methodist? etc... etc...??
    I would be interested to hear any views on this, and how one religion can be so diverse.

    1. teacherjoe52 profile image58
      teacherjoe52posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi nLucienne

      The true Christian is the one who acepts Jesus Christ as their savior and lives by Gods Law: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do not do to thers as you woud not have them do unto you.

      All else is just as small handful of manipulative people trying to enslave people to their wil, not Christ's

      I pray this helps you

      May the sunshine of Jesus' sweet love bless you todayand every day.

      1. lucieanne profile image80
        lucieanneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Teacherjoe, and thanks for your comment. Do you attend a church?

      2. KeithTax profile image79
        KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So your brand of Christianity is better than everyone else's?

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, we have christians who fight about who is the true christian, muslims who own the truth of the quoran as well.

          There seems to be a dozen or so religions within the same religion. lol

          But they are all true, and they all got told the truth by the same god.

          God just tells them all different stories apparently. smile

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That doesn't even make sense
            Why would a God who believes in truth and does not lie, tell them all different stories?

            A God, who does not lie would only have one story, one truth and one way - this makes sense. If (hypothetical if) God were to crucify his son, whom we know he loved, why would he then make it a moot point at any time in history? even today or a hundred years from now.

            There are different branches of hinduism, karmaism, toaism, yoga, science, math, and there are different types of all sorts of things, cars, detergent, pool tables, houses.........

            That is just the way it is with humans. Everybody has an opinion, founded or unfounded, true or not, justified or not justified or they just make em up for any old cause

            Now do you see the justification for God saying kill the false prophet who speaks not my words, or God eliminating the 'competition'. Humankind has so many avenues to many supposed forms of spiritualism that majorly there is a huge amount of confusion and few know which one is right. God sought to reduce this confusion to nill for a good purpose.

          2. Don Crowson profile image76
            Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And you should consider that Satan was the first liar. And Jesus told the Pharisees that they were the children of their father--Satan.  Now isince the Pharisees were in charge of all the scripture--and they are liars, why would you say that God is telling the lie.  Didn't paul talk about the false teachers.  Hey, just think, if those people are writing the Bible, why wouldn't you expect iot to tell lies? But don't tell me that it is Jesus who tells lies.  You need to understand the difference between religion and Christianity.  Pne s a set of dogma and doct=rine and the other is a relationship.

            1. Cagsil profile image72
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              And exactly where did you get your information? You speak of the bible and Christianity? You mentioned Paul?

              I mean you're claiming the two(religion and Christianity) are separate? Yet, you get your information from religion known as Christianity. roll

              1. Don Crowson profile image76
                Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The Pharisees were very religious.  Jesus had nothing to do with them because  they were not doing the work of the Father.  And Jesus said they did the work of their Father who was Satan.  Therefore, the rel Christian may be sitting beside the so-called Christian in the sme pew at church. That is wat the Bible teaches.

              2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No if you got what Jesus tried to instruct Cags ,you would get that He admonished Religious leaders and in fact told them exactly what made them different...from followers of Christ.

                Religion is just an easy word for the world system to be able to categorise anything to do with God(s)

                Not a biggy with me personally because I dont like stereotpyes of any kind, but I acknowledge I do it,even unconciously.

                My friends (who dont believe) will often say ...Oh ..I know how you feel about such n such because---your religious...lol

                I usually respond with...Tell me what YOU think my opinion is -then I'll tell you the truth lol

            2. earnestshub profile image89
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Here is solid proof that those who spoke for jesus (jesus never wrote a single word)


              And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."  (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)



              Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

              Total fail. Not one single documented case of this happening in 2,000 years.
              Lot's of fraud. plenty of "liars for jesus" but not one slither of evidence in 2,000 years despite millions of prayers a day.

              No more empirical evidence needed.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

                I always took that verse as inspiration to seize opportunities. It also seemed, to me, to finding enlightenment and self-knowledge.

                To a lesser degree, I thought the same about the first verse.  Of course, I've never looked at prayer as a way to change the world, just myself...

                1. earnestshub profile image89
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I also see it as inspirational as a goal to get out there and do things myself, but not as a truth in any literal sense.
                  Taken as it is written as a promise it is simply a lie.
                  If it doesn't happen a billion times out of a billion it ain't gonna happen. smile

                  I have always been very lucky getting what I need, but I know why.

                  I worked hard at being lucky. smile

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    See, my biggest struggles come in the form of not slapping the spit out of someone and the associated inability to forgive people for being stupid.

                    I am, by nature, a very vindictive spiteful person.  Unfortunately for my psyche, I am also a very kind person (not nice, but kind) and fiercely loving.  I ran into a situation that I was forced to love and hate the same person.  And I don't mean a little love and hate, but serious extreme emotions existing at the same time.  In order to not completely lose my mind, I needed to find a way to change one part of my personality.  I turned to the Christian religion because Jesus offered the best role model that I could find to provide a solid, rigidly defined end point that I could work towards.  I likely could have found a similar role model among the other religions but I was already familiar with Christianity.

                    I do credit the words of Christ (the validity of their source is a non-issue to me) with helping me to become a better person.  (Which I have independent confirmation that I am).  The second verse you quoted was actually very inspirational to me throughout my toughest times. 

                    So basically, I worked (still work) hard at being more Christlike because that is the way that worked best for me. 

                    I swear I had a point in there somewhere...

              2. Don Crowson profile image76
                Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                He was speaking specifically to His Disciples. He was not speaking to the general believers who doubted.  And he said that those who were faithful to the end.  Now one who is a doubter can look at that verse all day and say it doesn't work--it's a lie. No, it iw not a lie because he was not speaking to you, was he?

        2. Don Crowson profile image76
          Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There is only one brand of Christianity.  there are many brands of religion.

    2. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think none of them follows what Jesus believed in and practiced; they all follow the deviant Paul instead of Jesus.

      1. lucieanne profile image80
        lucieanneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Interesting.....

        1. 69
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          None of them has anything written by Jesus.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And i suppose there were no note takers present at any time?
            And i suppose that hearing the words of God in the flesh would have the same impact as a tv add for sardines - in one ear and out the other?
            In a culture that heavily depended on oral communication and had been in the practice of passing down history for thousands of years all of a sudden no one can get anything correct, there is no remembrance and no one cares to jot down notes.

            Gimme a break, that is such a weak pole to lean against its gonna break

          2. Don Crowson profile image76
            Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So you believe that no practicing Christian understands the messge or Spirit of Christ. You obviously do not understand the difference between religion and Christianity.  Christianity is a relationshipo.  Religion is a lot of dogma and doctrine.  Perhaps that's why you are confused.

      2. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Paul was not deviant and i expect such a saying from one who thinks there are no words of jesus.
        If ya can't trust what the gospels say, how are ya gonna trust what paul says.

        Paul doesn't break the scriptures. Everything that Paul teaches can be backed up in the torah. Jesus did fulfill prophecy and Jesus did usher in a new dispensation.

        Deuteronomy 10:16   Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff necked.
        Jeremiah 4:4   Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart
        1 Corinthians 7:19   Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
        Romans 2:25   For circumcision verily profits, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision
        Romans 2:29   But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

        See no difference.

        1. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It would seem that circumcision  is very circumstantial !

        2. Blessed53 profile image60
          Blessed53posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I love your argument for the gospels and Paul here.  As a Christian, Christian writer, and Chritian poet, I am glad I found this discussion and will be following it thoroughly and giving my opinions and feedback here for the honor and glory of God.

          Always, in all ways, to God the honor and glory!

          Blessings!

    3. Greek One profile image81
      Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The Greek Orthodox version, of course.

    4. 0
      Allan Saverioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Lucieanne,
      None of them!No one understood Jesus true teachings except the apostles and christians of the early church.The world only speculates in their own fleshly wisdom. Paul understood the lords teachings well and guess who taught Him? There is nothing the flesh can do that is acceptable to God. So are we all condemned to the everlasting fire. No!The truth was revealed in the late 1600's by the Quakers in England and was lost again.Not the Quakers today but back then. The truth is we look outwards to satisfy our beliefs and we believe what we want to believe and reject that which we want to reject. Basically we should all take our fleshly wisdom and put it aside. The Lord is the teacher and as He has said He abides in us. (the kingdom) We must come to Him like children and abide in Him and wait there to be taught by Him.Without the leading of the vine we cannot produce fruit and please God.The Bible is not the 'word' of God!This is the result of the devils great works.The 'word' is Jesus Himself. The bible are recorded words of the 'word' and great prophets as they were moved by God.Did not Jesus tell the pharisees that it was a vain thing  searching the letter (scriptures) as professing christians do today? He knocks daily at your door as the 'light' that enlightens all man that come into the world. (John 1: 1-9) He is the only true teacher and He is within you so why do you have to run to or fro in the desert to find Him when He is in you. The light is His spirit which judges your words and actions daily! Paul said in collossions that the mystery of the true gospel was ''Christ in you!'' How much professing christians have lied to people today but do not worry for soon the truth will be revealed one more time and the last to enter heaven is, guess who? God said in the last days I will teach them and live in them. Not by a book but personally He speaks to the repenting soul and gives the humble soul power to change his sinful ways.When you understand this 'inward' way than you will find all the missing pieces in the bible fall into place and there will be no more confusion of the soul but real peace. Christians today are 'outward' worshippers and little do they know it is the flesh that worships and thus the flesh invents many ways of worship and ceremonies to appear holy but inwardly they are corrupt. As Jesus told the woman in the well, true worshippers worship the Father in truth and spirit and not fleshly with invented ceremonies. The true gospel is spiritual. You live it,experience it,feel it and than possess it. It is quite frightening to understand this concept as it was lost for hundreds of years but God in His mercy will sent forth His prophets before the time of the end. The world will not end as christians believe,only sin will be removed from the face of the earth forever.Peace to you.

    5. 0
      Allan Saverioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And faith comes by 'hearing' (His voice) and hearing by the 'word' (Jesus) of God!My sheep (true christians) hear my voice and they follow me!They dont read a bible or some christian book and try to interprete the meaning according to what they think is right,No!The true sheep wait for their sherperd to lead them and teach them.If only man can learn to quieten down the flesh and listen then they will hear.'Be silent o'isles for the Lord is in his temple!(you).Man in their corrupt fleshly minds and hearts have invented so much beliefs and teachings that they have only brought more confusion and sorrow to all of mankind.Much misery in the world and we are to blame for our actions.Is God wrong to hide this truth from mankind!No!No one seeks Him with all their heart,body,mind and soul and He has been abiding in man all these time.I have and I have found my Lord and He speaks to me and there is no confusion when you come to the truth.There are 1000+ errors in the bible and people are not aware of it.Since christianity today did not understand the true gospel of Jesus they interpreted the bible to suit their beliefs even excluding important scripts.The truth is heavy stuff that will chill you right down to the bones and be prepared for soon the truth will come and will it find you abiding in faith?It will be a shocker to modern christianity!The news of the true gospel will be great and many will rejoice and realise that God is good and He is ever loving.There are so much opposition today to christianity because the christians themselves are confused people.Today there are so many doubts and confusion that many wander away from their beliefs and are lost sheep. In the 'inward' way you are never lost from the Creators sight because He abides in you and will be in you when you have walked the narrow road to redemption which is your salvation.Salvation is at the end of the narrow path which few find and not some short prayer which they tell you to recite and automatically you are saved.No!no!no!The cross you bear daily as Jesus mentioned is a cross of 'self denial'.The denial of the flesh and surrendering of the soul to the creator for His leading.Many do not understand Pauls teachings and they oppose it.Paul was trying to explain the Lords true gospel of salvation for mankind.The works must be done and the sinful man in you (abomination of desolation) must be revealed before your eyes and then when you realise how unworthy a creature you are than repentence comes and power is given to you to change. Know that no single human can do anything to attain perfection and holiness but through the grace of God only!The true baptism of fire is the revelation of your fleshly weaknesses in you by the spirit and He makes you feel your unworthiness.It is the burning of the chaff within oneself leading you to purity.Without purity you will not see God.What Im trying to say is that the true gospel is the work of God in you to purify you.The suffering and tribulations the apostles were talking about is PERSONAL!The gospel is personal.A preacher will not know your weaknesses so how will He lead you to perfection and holiness?They can direct you maybe but the work must be done by you.The good works are those which you hear commanded unto you and reasoned with you.You obey and you do well. Stop believing the teachings of men and go to your creator in humility and truth and wait patiently for His rising in you.He will come and when you have opened that door than peace overflows and you stand still in the storm.I will tell you a truth that was never understood by biblical scholars of today. After Jesus talked about His mansions for you in heaven a desciple asked Him...''But why will you show youself only to us and not the world?''Jesus answered '' If you follow my teaching (the inward way) and obey my commandments (He reasons with you daily) the Father will love you and we will come and make our home in you!'' The true meaning of this is that once you have been purified through the narrow way and have been sealed with the Holy Spirit'' you get to meet them both...whilst still ALIVE!and the second death you will not suffer because the first death is dying to you fleshly self. The flesh dies and the spirit rises thus as Paul has said ''It is not I that liveth but the Spirit that lives in me!It is no longer your will but you live as His will is done in you'' remember the Lords prayer!NOW!thats good news for the soul! The beginning for you will be tough as you learn to hear for the first time because the flesh will retaliate in you and cause you to doubt but as Jesus have said ''The kingdom of heaven is entered forcefully by strong men!'' If you are seeking Him in truth than remember patience must be worked in the man.Every step to hearing His voice is a lesson you will not regret. Thats why only few walk this path and die slowly to themselves surrendering all to the Creator but the Spirit rises and great joy comes within the man.The kingdom has come since the day of the pentecost and it has come only to the saved. It is a personal experience. Jesus said to His desciples ''But some of you standing here will not die until you see the kingdom come!''I dont know what kingdom the christians of today are waiting for as it has come 2000yrs ago and many of the true christians have received it back than and in the 1700s.Remember the world ends for you as you die.Even the concept of heaven being taught today is so wrong tthat it preaches an unmerciful God who punishes His own creation??Imagine if hell was just a place where those who do not make it whilst alive on earth are sent there for purification.The Bible teaches ''All men will be saved'' that means none will be lost.Imagine  if hell was like a dream?Is God just in sending you to such a place to purify you.Remember the reason why suffering is allowed and do not be fooled by the teachings you have heard so far is that,the man must come to fully regret His condition and see that the flesh can do nothing good but bring forth suffering and sorrow.So this the Lord must make us feel so that we shall never ever decide to return back to this fleshly life of being spoiled children but choose Him always.The flaming sword that prevents Adam and Eve from returning back to Eden will be the same which prevents us from coming back as we enter Eden again.The same flaming sword that will cut every chaff within you as you enter heavens gate.
      Peace to you all.

      1. recommend1 profile image70
        recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        and another branch of the same brand -
        The leader of the church, Margie Phelps, has declared her group intends to picket the funeral of Jobs as way of "condemning him for teaching sin to others," according to The Huffington Post. The message is even more bizarre considering that she sent the message via Twitter over her iPhone. When people pointed this out to Phelps, she said that it was God who created the iPhone, not Jobs.

        So many interpretations and not one real christian among them.

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Margie Phelps appears to be carrying the same sort of logic as some of our religiously infirm do. lol

      2. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        a lot of that was really really good
        except or the universal salvation message. God would have all to be saved but this is not what happens.
        revelation occurs slowly to the church and we have both ignorance of scripture by the masses and theologians to thank for that.

        But a really good read. You hit many nails on the head. The value of self denial is paramount and a key point.

      3. workabroad profile image59
        workabroadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        very well written...i agree...

      4. Oscarlites profile image56
        Oscarlitesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        well sir, that is a lot of reading and I  promise I will get to it.. lol.

      5. jonnycomelately profile image86
        jonnycomelatelyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Allan Saverio, all that you have written, I am sure in the greatest sincerity, is based on the one presumption that a "god" exists in reality. For anyone like myself who does not accept that premise, those teachings of Paul and of Jesus for that matter, were in the form of metaphor.  They, like so many sages and great teachers throughout history were attempting to describe the undescribable. Their stories were told in a way which would have been understandable by people of that era.  The term "god" itself is a metaphor, molded to suit the person who believes and incorporating already held concepts.

    6. Jerami profile image80
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wouldn't Ya know that I am going to say ....   that that answer is in the prophesy!

         For so far as called Christians are involved!
      I don't remember where it is written; but it is written, that proof of scripture is found in understanding of prophesy!   Or something like that?


          Now! does that sound like we are suposed to "interpret" that prophesy any way that we want to?

           I would answer the OP  with which ever one thad interprets prophesy the least.  should be the best one!

            But that is just  "MY"  interpretation.


             SOooo  Nobody needs to listen to MY  interpretation  ....    cause,  after all ....   evrybody has got one.

    7. Kiss andTales profile image22
      Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      yes so many religions ,like so many maps ,like a pirates map only one will be the true treasure, only one will have the right valid mark!  that will lead many into the the real treasure of everlasting life (the tree of life) many a opinion and thats every ones right but the truth is religion is  custom made! people seem to pick what works for them and leave the rest! because the rest they dont want its to hard ,they dont want to give up some pleasure a  relationship with God ! many people will keep saying there is no God ,for others they will say yes it is  a God,some wont care either way,but the truth of the matter God has reveal the truth to many! and people will not accept him and the channel he is using! it will be to late when there is no doubt of who he is just like the flood of old ! we are facing the future Armaggeddon.

      1. AntonOfTheNorth profile image60
        AntonOfTheNorthposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        actually, more likely that none will be correct.

        If God has revealed the truth to many, why don't any of them agree?  Why are so many christian congregations in a crisis about one item or another?

        If there was one true way, there would only be one.  The existence of others is either a plan or a fault (or there is no god)

        cheers

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Because each individual interprets their relationship with God in a different way.  To think that each believer should be a carbon copy of each other is a scenario that wouldn't exist if a living God ruled the Earth indisputedly.

          Don't make me break out the red car theory again.

    8. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ..Spirituality is diverse ,because none of us is the same , we think, perceive differently.

      Add into that fact ,that I beleive the real battle takes place in the heavenlies anyway and we are the pawns...

      One day the game will be over however, and the real King will be crowned.

      In the meant time I just do what I think is right smile

      1. Blessed53 profile image60
        Blessed53posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I disagree that the real battle is in the heavenlies!  It is right here in our midst as the Evil One uses every one of his tricks, lies, and dark angels to keep as many here on earth from believing and REALLY following the One True God and His will for us.  He blinds even so-called Christians from the fact that he even exists, let alone is ever in violent spiritual warfare alive here in our lives!  True Christians know these facts and feel and see his attacks the closer their personal relationship gets to God or the harder they fight for His honor and glory!  Satan IS alive and well, too well, here on this earth and we need more soldiers in God's army to stand up against him and fight the good fight for the honor and glory of God!

        Always, in all ways, to God the honor and glory!

        Blessings!

    9. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Lucieanne, I take the question right back to Square One .... If 1,000,000 people believe there is a god, then there are 1,000,000 gods.  Each of us conjures up in our own mind what we think "god" is like.  Some think of Jesus as God.  And each individual has an idea in his/her mind what Jesus looked like.  E.g., long dark hair with beard and mo; tall, slender, beautiful man, wearing flowing whitish robes; man looking down from the sky;  poor individual begging for a crust in the street;  a crowned mythical person who has infinite power over us.....  Catholic, protestant, pagan, etc.   There is not one but many images of christ. 
      You don't have to " believe " in god, you can get on with enjoying life as long as you are able.
      Christian, Muslim, Hindy, etc.  does not matter.

    10. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
      Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      All you can do is accept that if they say they are christian then they are for all intents and purposes. I suppose one could observe a criteria like they should at least believe Jesus is their saviour but that's about as far as I'd say one can go.

      They all have their own religion when you come down to it. The only common factor seems to be the saviour aspect. Other than that it is a free for all.

    11. Dave Mathews profile image60
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Christianity has no specific denomination, ie. Protestant or Catholic. To be a "Christian" in the true sense of the word, is to be a follower of Jesus Christ, regardless of any denomination or it's beliefs. There are so many teachings taught by Jesus in the Gospel Scriptures but if one follows His ways one cannot go wrong.

      1. HOOWANTSTONO profile image59
        HOOWANTSTONOposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yo got that right Bro.....
        Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. wink

      2. AntonOfTheNorth profile image60
        AntonOfTheNorthposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And yet the Catholic church would disagree, and has stated so openly.  So who does the non christian heed?

        cheers

    12. shop online fast profile image60
      shop online fastposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      you are raising a very provocative and controversial question.

      know this: any answer you get will be debatable.  this doesn't mean that all the answers will be wrong, or right.

      at the end of the day, it is what we BELIEVE our Maker reveals to us is correct.

      believe it or not, we are all spiritual beings. it is very possible for God to communicate to us on a spiritual level.  but we have to put ourselves in a spiritual frame of mind

      we can all get into the spiritual realm (holy spirit or evil spirit)

      check this out.  what happens when you get mad and ready to fight?   answer: you take on a spiritual realm, an evil spiritual realm. 

      on the other hand, when you develop compassion and love (not sexual urges) for your loved one, then you take on a holy spiritual realm.

      finally, your Maker may reveal Himself and the truth to you if you get into the spiritual realm and you BELIEVE

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Only the ignorant and deluded would believe something so ridiculous as that.



        Which, I'm sure you can explain thoroughly. lol



        Is that like a special club or getaway? Do we take a bus or a plane to get there. lol Hilarious stuff.

        1. shop online fast profile image60
          shop online fastposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, we cannot take a bus to the spiritual realm.  It is a state of mind. Patching yourself so to speak. You have no fear when in this real. Whether you're speaking before a large crowd, confronting your enemies, or showing love and compassion. The spiritual realm is the state where failing doesn't cross your mind. In fact, it's the state where you believe you cannot fail.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Like a hallucination? Or, being stoned on drugs? It's all in the mind, though. In fact, it is the mind and there is nothing spiritual about it whatsoever.

    13. HOOWANTSTONO profile image59
      HOOWANTSTONOposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The best way is to determine what is "Religion" and what is truth. I determine what is true by what their god has done for them.... I believe in Jesus Christ because he has spoken against religion, and he brought the Gospel. The Gospel is the way to go......avoid following the masses, and get to know the true and living God from your home, by reading a King James Bible and start praying and speaking directly to God that reveals himself in the scriptures. You will also notice that Jesus Christ is God and he gave himself up for us that recognize we are sinners and need to be redeemed. That is the truth, and way to go. No other "Religion" can match this and set you free from bondage, because all the rest are in bondage and try and entrap you into religion.........Jesus sets us free. Until you have done this simple step, you have not gone anywhere.  smile

      1. Blessed53 profile image60
        Blessed53posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Excellent reply to this question because God IS TRUTH!  And love, beauty, mercy, grace, and life!  Religions are man's attempts to put God and His Word into their own little box for their own little agendas and say "they" are the only "right" ones.  No, God Himself, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit in One is the only RIGHT ONE!  No one or group can claim to be above Him!

        Always, in all ways, to God the honor and glory!

        Blessings!

    14. quicksand profile image84
      quicksandposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Diverse!"  Variety is indeed spice! The best thing to do is embrace the law of the land, add a little bit of ethics and follow it to the dot. GOD will like it!

    15. Don W profile image82
      Don Wposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Greek was the lingua franca of the the time, so those Jewish people in first century Palestine who professed a belief that Jesus was the Messiah, or in Greek the Khristós (Christ) were called Christians to distinguish them from Jewish people (early Christians were of course Jewish) who did not believe Jesus was the Christ.

      From that earlier distinction we can take it that a Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures. That distinction would have been very important later as the Roman authorities took a dim view of Christians and had a habit of throwing them to the lions. The main distinction between an orthodox Jewish person and a Christian Jewish person would be their belief that Jesus was the Christ. This belief often meant the difference between life and death, as refusal to recant a belief in Jesus Christ (Jesus the Christ) could, and often did, result in being tortured and murdered, usually as a public spectacle.

      The denominations you mentioned all have different interpretations of various parts of scripture, and certain different beliefs. However if you transported a Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Baptist and Methodist to first century Palestine, they would all be killed as Christians. Unitarians and Jehovah's Witnesses would not as they do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.

      So if someone believes that Jesus is the Christ, they are Christian. If not then although their beliefs may be related to Christianity, or even based on Christian teachings, technically they are not Christian, as it's the belief that Jesus is the Christ that historically distinguished Christians from their Jewish brethren.

      Having said that, language and definitions do change. And there are people who follow the teachings of Jesus, but don't necessarily believe . Jesus is the Messiah. I wonder, would they consider themselves Christian, and if so why?

    16. ronhi profile image82
      ronhiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There are so many things that make us different as Christians but still, there are some unifying factors. The problem with Christians is that we concentrate too much on the little things that we don't have in common and forget the important building block of Christianity. As long as we agree that Jesus is the son of God, as long as we agree that the Bible is the word of God, As long as we believe in eternal life/judgement, as long as we believe in new birth, as long as we agree that Jesus died, was buried and rose again, then we should forget about the other little things that separate us.

    17. Blessed53 profile image60
      Blessed53posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It is the "religion" of Christianity I believe in: the Bible, which I beleive to be the inerrant Word of God Himself and that is why I attend a non-denominational "Bible-teaching" church.  From my experience, within "denominations," man adds to or subtracts from the true Word of God with his own sets of rules or regulations or interpretations of the Word.  Of course, each man may have his own "interpretation" of the Word of God and that is why it is so important for each individual to read and study His Word AND develope a CLOSE personal relationship with God so that he can be filled with the Holy Spirit to give him DISCERNMENT in all things.  There are many "true" Christian preachers and authors and disciples out there, but there are also many false teachers and prophets in Satan's army of dark angels all around us just waiting for any little opening to lead us away from the One True God!  There is much teaching and understanding that needs to be done on this subject that I am convicted to attack for the honor and glory of God,

      Always, in all ways, to God the honor and glory!

      Blessings!

    18. magodis profile image75
      magodisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think this can rarely happen. Recently I heard that Pope was to call for unity. But there are different interests of leaders of each sect. So I dont think that real Christianity will dominate.

    19. jacharless profile image83
      jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wow,
      A guy goes away for holiday, comes back and the party is still going on!

      Your one point, lucieanne, is very critical, because of all theologies -save Hinduism- Christianity IS by far the most diverse of the lot. Good or Bad? Correct or Incorrect? Well, the Tree and Roots to that Tree are splintered further than all the nerve endings in the human body.

      The original decree, which seems to have founded the concept is/was meant to be a thorough fulfillment/superseding of the Judaism limitation/lifestyle. That concept has in fact run amuck. The reason is simple: individual interpretation. That interpretation, like it or not, applies to the present believing --in which ever form of doctrine-- AND includes equally the former believing. {{ sorry kids, no escape clauses permitted }}

      Interpreting words, deeds, actions/reactions based on social necessity of the day;
      Perhaps some kind of self preservation --be it a group of powerful or weak individuals;
      Perhaps a blend of social indoctrination to either destroy or sustain another group or sway the populous.
      Sounds more like politics because it is.

      Christianity, whether most care to admit it or not, has done its share of social and individual damage & good.
      Such is the battle of humanism.
      But not the decree or even the concept itself.
      The interpolation of that concept, yes.
      Each time it splintered, further issues arose.
      The latest splinters are atheism & fundamentalism.
      These two new branches are the result of the failure of the 1920-60's generational span, scarred by 3 major global wars, left wing development (technology/practical sciences/medicine/industrialization). The fundamentalist idea is to hold on for dear life, in the hope the end in near. The atheist idea is to hold dear the life, because the end is near.

      The most profound branch of Christianity today is atheism. It is remarkably close to the original concept of Christianity.
      {{ Now that statement is going to turn some heads and certainly give me flack.. but so be it }}
      Atheism, like its mother tree, missed the mark.
      Rather than succeeding in the superseding Judaism, they have inadvertently become Lawful Jews
      {{ and there is a huge difference between living Judaic and being a Lawful Jew }}
      Judaism also does not believe in G/gods, yet is profoundly altruistic based on its core.
      Atheism also does not believe in G/gods yet is reversed altruism --a self responsibility that often projects more fundamentalism than even the Fundamentalists do.
      Don't get me wrong, both are still Lawful Jews.
      But like Jacob, Christianity wants all the women yet, doesn't want to work for them nor share them.
      And like Esau, Atheism has sold or will sell its birthright for a just bowl of stew.

      Either way, it is interesting to watch them in action and take notes.

      James.

  2. Frederick Sargent profile image61
    Frederick Sargentposted 5 years ago

    You've asked a great question.  The problem comes from the fact that Christians are people.  Give people 2000 years and they can screw anything up.  Here is my take.  Christianity not a religion.  It isn't even an organization.  It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.  If you have such a relationship, you are a christian.  Nobody else is involved.  Just you and Jesus.  Using this definition you will realize that many members of christian churches are not Christians either.  Read from the New Testament.  Develop your relationship with Jesus personally through prayer.  After you are a christian, if you want, find a group of like minded people and join their church.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I believe Christianity is suppose to be about a relationship with God, not a relationship with God's messenger.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yea that's how I roll.

        I do however get strength and encouragement from other Christians who 'live by example' which is the edification ,building up that Jesus encourages us to do.

      2. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I like that view you are right relationship is about God! the focus !and yet people confuse the two,thats why so many religions

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I also think humans like to have many choices about everything,but the good thing to remember is God knows us wink even when we manage to confuse ourselves lol

  3. MelissaBarrett profile image60
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    A real Christian is anyone who chooses to consider themselves a Christian.  I think it's hilarious that we fight over definitions.  Each person is an individual with their own take on their faith.  It seems that the only two types of people that want to put a label on it are 1. Christians that believe that their view is the only true way and 2. Non-believers that want a stereotype to make it easier to  call people stupid without actually having to learn anything about an individual.

  4. lucieanne profile image80
    lucieanneposted 5 years ago

    You see, I have a problem understanding people who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus, but actually don't. A couple of examples; Catholic priests who sexually abuse children, Mormons who can have more than one wife, (and also abstain from drinking alcohol, even though Jesus allegedly turned water into wine - and drank it himself)Protestants who invented divorce - Well that was down to King Henry V111 who invented protestants in the first place, we know. But I don't get it at all. It seems that over the centuries people have adapted this 'Christianity' to suit their own ends. If one accepts that the book of scriptures is the work of God, then why do people pick out the bits that suit them? 2 Timothy 3 vs 16 'All scripture is God breathed and beneficial for teaching' So why do so many people ignore this and interpret it in their own way?

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Because that's what a value system/religion/personal philosophy is.  People choose what is right based on how it feels to them (or appeals to their logic).  The reasons why a certain belief feels or is logical to them are as unique as each individual.  If you are saying there are religious hypocrites... absolutely.  There are people in all religions and non-religions that say they believe one thing but act a different way.  That's bound to happen within any group of people though.  I think the origins of divorce go way further back than King Henry III or Protestantism, but I get your point.  Religions change *shrugs*, I honestly would prefer change over stagnation though. Wouldn't you?

      Not all those who are religious are guilty of adapting their religion to suit their needs, and those who have are just as likely to have adapted positively as opposed to negatively (Or both I guess, depending on your viewpoint)

      As for the "All scripture is God breathed and beneficial for teaching" I certainly believe that... although probably not the way that some other Christians do. 

      Now, as far as individual interpretations, they occur because individuals are interpreting.  I use the example alot of the red car.  The statement "There is a red car" is very straight-forward and easy to understand.  The problem is the red car that YOU are thinking about probably doesn't look a thing like the one that I am thinking about.

      1. lucieanne profile image80
        lucieanneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        This is the problem I have Melissa. The reigious 'nuts' make a louder noise than the ones who quietly go about their business. And it's these 'nuts' who give Christianity a bad name.
        I can't accept they hypocricy of the 'Church', so my beliefs have become clouded - to the extent that I don't know what to believe any more.
        I happen to be one of those people who don't take everything someone tells me as 'right' just because it's written in the bible. My common sense tells me that some of the stuff that is written in the scriptures cannot possibly be true, but having said that, with the limited knowledge they had in those days, they probably didn't have a more rational explanation than the one they wrote down.
        IF it really is 'God breathed' surely He would have had an updated version written by now which would be easier to understand in today's world? Why would he want to make things so difficult for us?

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          My personal beliefs are If there is a God, then everything is "God Breathed" and everything is a viable opportunity for learning. (That doesn't mean it is necessarily literal or even positive)

          I think the problem goes both ways many times.  I think members of any religious group bear the brunt of every thing that anyone of the same group does.  I also think that the more zealotous of any religion also alienate those who do not wish to convert.  It's made even worse because they feel that bullying is OK because they have God on their side.

          In the same way that each individual religious person is unique, each church is as well.  I don't believe that every church is corrupt any more than I believe that every believer is.  Many churches are very community oriented and focus on humanitarian efforts.  Others focus on conversion, still others focus on politics.

          I don't believe that the whole of the bible is meant to be taken literally either and there are many Christians that feel the same way.  That doesn't mean that those who are literalists are wrong, they just have a different interpretation. 

          There are also several new versions written of the Bible and several emerging new religions and denominations.  I think most of them have something to offer to those looking for spiritual answers, even if none of them may "fit" a person perfectly. 

          Answers are all around us, I assume that if there is a God that he intended us to find them.

    2. TJenkins602 profile image74
      TJenkins602posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Abstaining from Alcohol is okay. I laugh at the absurdity of Christian leaders condemning the drinking of Alcohol as if it was a sin.

      If drinking alcohol is a sin, then...

      Is it getting hot in here?...

      1. 72
        SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The term Christian is a label but we often fail to separate this World from the next, not to mention free will. No drinking is not a sin but being consumed by it is the sin. We practice our faith and somehow simply having one seems to place us in a zero defects environment. I only care enough to make people think because you can only save yourself. Being a good so called Christian is being a conservative drinker and not kicking your butt when you tell me I have had enough. Telling me I am the worst kind of sinner for simply having a beer is testing my faith, allow me to pray for strength. I am not being serious here and being a comedian is not a sin the last time I checked. Remember  Babylon, when everyone could no longer understand one another. When were not practising we spend our free time condemning one another on things that do not save anyone. As soon as I become perfect I am going to condemn everyone for something but right now I am to busy hurting myself. The best part about hurting myself instead of others is that being forgiven is a whole lot easier.

    3. Oscarlites profile image56
      Oscarlitesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Luciane..   I was also 'taught' as a child that the word of God is infallible and without mistake.  however I am now reading a copy of the "lost Books'  which at the very least throws light on Jesus Childhood, ,not recorded so much in the canonized bible. some of it is almost unbelievable, but it happens to be a record of things that supposedly happened, but did not get chosen in the authorized versions.  as I read it I realize we are all 'observing'  and I beleive we are all going to be responsible not for what man teaches us so much, but rather what the word itself has given to us.  its like the rolls royce manual, and anyone can speak of it, but jeepers the car won't run unless it is according to 'schematic'.    many of my friends attest that they have independently tested some of the principles of the bible and were surprised that they have results in keeping with its expectations. but note: they were very serious in their pursuit of it.  man tries to do it his way and it won't work, because its not according to the schematic. but read the schematic and apply the proper technique and bingo.. we have a winner. ...  its however not without its tests and trials. but I have been introduced to lifechangers, ( Gregory Dickow ) and his views of bible principles are more positive than any I have seen in a long time.  the only thing I see a flaw with is that he doesnt seem to teach the basic  need of repentence to enter Gods plan. If he does I want to hear it. I am still pondering how he bases the success of your 'walk with god" on how many ( money) seeds you plant.   not arguing the seed time and harvest teaching, but if thats all you have to do is believe and make sure you give enough, well....  Let me ask of all the others ... is the total gospel about giving and receiving wealth?  where did I get led astray here?   his people testify they get jobs,  members of family get healed, and many other things..     is it the mere "diligence" of exercising your faith in these things that God wants to bless?      or can you really stay home and recieve all of what God has for you?   Can you go it alone and find perfect peace and end up with the company of angels?      or do you really have to associate and serve?    what have you found?

  5. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    travel.state.gov

  6. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    I mean really?

  7. 0
    Grandma Jeanposted 5 years ago

    Jesus said in THE BIBLE, "I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No man comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6).  God created the world and sent His Son Jesus to save us from our sins.  If you believe the Bible is the Word of God, you can find all the answers to life in it.  What God has told us in the Old Testament either has happened in the New Testament or will happen before Jesus comes again.  The wars, floods, earthquakes, etc. are all predicted in the Bible and are coming true.  It won't be long before Jesus comes back to take His children to be with Him in Heaven.  You must be ready by having asked Jesus to forgive you of your sins and come into your life.  I'd be glad to answer any specific questions you have.  I'm not a Bible theologian or anything like that--just a grandma who loves the Lord.

  8. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    I am wandering....

  9. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    That is fine.

  10. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    I will not even say OMG re whatever...

  11. 0
    Grandma Jeanposted 5 years ago

    PS - There are many updated versions of the Bible available.  The New Living Translation (NLT) is one of them and if you do a search on the internet, there are a couple of websites that have any version of the Bible you would ever want available for you to read, copy and paste into your word processor, etc.  I don't know if it's "legal" to reference them in this post, but there's a Bible Gateway.  NLT is a VERY easy to understand paraphrase.  The Message is another one of my all-time favorites.  It's easy to read and understand.  But applying it is the important part.  I'll be praying for you.

  12. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    And still I wander...

  13. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    Re: no crap whatsoever.

  14. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    Just in case something misunderstood.

  15. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    omg? fml? Really!?!

  16. 0
    Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago

    Which one is right?  The one that follows Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.

    1. 0
      Grandma Jeanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      AMEN!  That's the whole answer in a nut shell.  God bless you, Virgil!

    2. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
      Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Who's version? Guess you will never know who the christians are.

  17. 0
    Grandma Jeanposted 5 years ago

    All Christian faiths are based on the life of Christ and what we know about His life comes from the Bible. Therefore, faithfulness to the Word of God is the key issue. When looking at churches or denominations you need to ask, "How faithful are they to the teachings of the Bible?" Many churches/denominations have added men's ideas, teachings etc, which often become more important than what the Bible says. Galatians 1:6-9 is relevant here.

    Lucieanne,I have some further thoughts for you to digest...  I am praying for you to keep seeking the truth and find it in Jesus...

    It is true that even those churches/denominations that try to be faithful to the Word of God have differences, but those differences are 1) due to our humanity and 2) are not related to the basic doctrines/teachings. Among Bible-believing churches there is agreement on the fundamental issues of the inspiration and inerrancy of scripture, the deity of Jesus, His virgin birth, His substitutionary atonement, His bodily resurrection and His personal return.
    Many of the other differences are personal preference or due to a certain emphasis that the group believes is important or has been neglected. That does not necessarily make one group right and the others wrong.

    For a person to neglect church because there are so many differences doesn't make sense. Hebrews 10:25 is instructive. Find a church that teaches the Word of God and begin to study it on your own. As you learn, live out what you learn. Being a Christian is to live out the life of Christ in every area of life.

  18. lucieanne profile image80
    lucieanneposted 5 years ago

    Hi Grandma Jean - and Melissa if you're around.
    I don't know what it is about the two of you, but something of what you have both written in your replies to my post have touched a nerve somewhere. Maybe it's because neither of you shove your faith down anyone's throats - I dunno. All I know is I have a desire to learn more about what motivates you in your faith. I'm not saying for one minute that I buy into the 'Jesus' senario, but I do acknowledge that I need to learn more.  Your humanity (and humility)make you shine somehow so therefore there must be something to be said for His teachings.
    I'm not an atheist, I've always believed in a 'God'. I just feel that maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction and really need to know which is the right way to focus.
    I appreciate your comments, and I'm grateful for the insight.
    Regards. Lucie

    1. lucieanne profile image80
      lucieanneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      PS - I've tried churches (several of them in fact) but I haven't found one where I feel comfortable. In my humble opinion, a persons relationship with God is personal, and although I'm not ashamed to say I believe in (a) God, I'm really not keen on sharing my relationship with a load of other people. Does that make any sense?
      I'm open to ideas.

      1. 0
        Allan Saverioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi lucieanne,
        You are right that you have tried several churches and none has brought you peace even to every answer that you have received so far in this hub.
        No one understands the Lords true teachings. Surprisingly it was lost 400yrs after His death.The world can only speculate but God in His mercy will reveal it one more time.There are at least 30,000 sects today proclaiming 30,000 teachings thus 30,000 different God's!!Why? That is the biggest question we forget to ask ourselves. I pity every professing christian out there. They only profess and not possess. You are well on the true path when you mentioned that you feel it is personal. It has been always Gods plan to be personal. His business is you, to make a better you. God promised that He will teach us personally and that He will live in us.You are the temple He wants to occupy and not some building as people believe today. He is the light that enlightens all man that come into the world (John 1:9) the annointing that teaches you (1John 2:27) and you dont need anyone else to teach you.To know the light is to understand the portion of His spirit that was given to all man since the pentecost (annointing). He is the one that judges your thoughts (the light) daily and tells you this is right and that is wrong. When you understand this basic principle you will now understand that the whole world now comes under one God irrespective of religion. This light (His spirit) is in all men and they dont realise it yet until they turn with their hearts and find Him. This may sound new to you but it is the truth and soon the world will hear about it. Be still and silent and you will hear. The kingdom is within you as Jesus said and whilst the world look outward and worship outward you must go inward as the kingdom abides in you. There is so much confusion today as the antichrists went out in the apostles time. If you really want to know the anti-christ just look at a mirror and behold all that opposes the creator..is you! The flesh! God wants to teach us how to live but we never listen. I believe one day when we arrive at heavens gate there will be more Chinese monks and Hindu priests than christians.Surprise? Little do this priests know that the enlightenment they are talking about which teaches them wisdom and humility and how to live is God himself.Oh! yes how lost are those christians who profess only whilst these non-so called christians possess the true teacher within themselves. God is within the man and not without.
        Jesus said behold I knock at the door...whoever hears my voice!!!not the letter (the bible) and My sheep hear my voice!!! not a book! Jesus told the pharisees ..'in vain do you search the letter (scriptures) thinking you may have life but you will not come to me so that you may have life!!!! So you must go to Him and hear His voice and obey every command given to you. What reasons with you everyday is the 'light'. If God was to remove this light in men, guess what will happen? So the light sustains all men and the world also. To hear His voice is to get quiet and listen,stop thinking! Remember He said 'Be still' and know I am God! I can give you many truths but I hope this will give you peace for now.

      2. 0
        Grandma Jeanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I understand what you mean about sharing your relationship with a load of other people.  I'm more or less of a private person and find it hard to open up to other people, and yet I know that is the very thing that I need.  I don't know about all churches, but in the one I attend and am involved in, people do not pry into other people's lives.  However, they are there if you need them and if you want to share anything. 
        Many times It is in sharing with others that I find answers to questions, help I needed but didn't want to ask for, and someone who understands what I am going through.  Most of all, the prayer support of my friends and people at church means so much and is what gets me through many days.
        I don't normally suggest this, but perhaps you could pick a church and arrive a few minutes after the time the service starts and slip in the last pew, listen and observe, and then slip out during the last hymn or closing prayer.  That would give you time to feel things out without having to interact with people.  Then maybe the next time go on time, and the next time a few minutes early, and so on, until you feel comfortable at least saying hello to people.  Then try another church and do the same thing.
        The big churches are probably the easiest to do that in because there are so many people that you might not even be noticed.  But the small churches are better for me because I don't feel so either intimidated by so many people nor lost in a crowd.
        Does this make sense?
        I'm sure you know people who are Christians or go to church.  Ask them questions and then see if their answers match with what the Bible says.
        I wish I could just sit down and talk with you over tea and cookies or something.  I'm praying for you to find the one true God and His Son Jesus.

  19. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Who told you all this?

    Which god?

    Your god?


    Or did you just lift it all out of "the good book?" and ignore all the contradictions and claim the OT god is somehow divorced from all the things he "wrote?"

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Not the one you used to believe in
      He doesn't exist apparently

      so it must be a different one, perhaps one that suffices.

    2. Joy56 profile image61
      Joy56posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Earnest Rest In Peace, i am so sad...... Brenda Scully....

      1. Joy56 profile image61
        Joy56posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This was Earnest last comment before his untimely death.....


        The Religious Forums Will Never Be The Same Again.....

  20. MelissaBarrett profile image60
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    You all are like a pack of wild freaking animals.  You have scented someone who is unsure and are merging and circling to get in a snap at her spiritual hamstring.

    It's like a bad pyramid scheme... what does the next one to convert a soul get a free set of knives?


    @lucieanne  I am truly sorry that I gave you my opinion.  I feel guilty that you were swayed by anything that I said.  The truth is only you can find your own path.  You can't walk mine or anyone else's.  When you figure out exactly what questions you want answered, google them... or go to a library... read whatever information from whatever sources you choose until your heart or head or both finally says "YES!" Then you have your belief.

    1. recommend1 profile image70
      recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Or of course they could read a bit and realise that christianity is a pile of outdated mind-doo-doo.  Then they might find a suitable spiritual path from among the peaceful and enlightening choices available ??

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That's pretty much what I said...

        (except the Christianity is doo doo, I (obviously) have found worth with Christianity, but it's not the right path for everyone.)

  21. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Google is good! Biggest library in the world. smile

  22. kirstenblog profile image76
    kirstenblogposted 5 years ago

    *Stands Up*

    Oh wait! That was Christians not Slim Shady! Guess I better sit back down lol

    1. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol lol

  23. 69
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Will the REAL Christian please stand up?

    Are there any real Christians in the Christians? I don't see any among them; they don't believe what Jesus believed in and they don't do what Jesus did, hence they can be anything else than being a Christian- a true follower of Jesus Christ they are not.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It has never been wise to judge anyone or anything without first checking out the fruit ie..Do they live ,what they believe,etc.

      Honestly a forum is like a buffet ,we already have some kind of appetite and we cruise and devour or pick n graze til we are full...sometimes we even vow to never to dine there again lol....least til the next time we are hungry ,or curious.

      Brainstorming is good. Discussion healthy, even disagreeing is normal.

      But -its the internet wink and like any invention it has its limits.

    2. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
  24. stemcellenhancer profile image60
    stemcellenhancerposted 5 years ago

    It's a fairly simple question.

    "God, please reveal yourself to me."
    That's all that's needed, so long as it's sincere.

    If you release that into the universe you will get your answer.
    If you don't hear anything in the next month, give me a hoy.

    God is big enough to be able to get a message to you.
    But I found that we have to be willing enough to listen.

    1. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      or gullible enough to hear and believe the voices in their heads. lol

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Like you did your voices?

  25. AEvans profile image72
    AEvansposted 5 years ago

    Christianity seems to have so many avenues. I believe that if all if us believe in the same God what difference would it make? If everyone sat down and read the Bible front to back and did not always listen to the minister, pastor, father, etc. of the church, they would find the true meaning of Christianity. I attend church but I do not allow them to lead me. I look for the answers, ask questions and pray. I am a REAL christian and do not pass judgement on those who do not believe and respect Christians who are from a different congregation then myself. smile

    1. 0
      Allan Saverioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      AEvans,
      There a 3 types of people today.
      1.Non believer
      2.The believer who believes everything that falls his/her way
      3.The diligent soul who yearns for the truth and wont give up until the truth is found.Remember the parables of the pearl,field of treasure?Dont believe every spirit but test every spririt!
      Peace will come and you will be filled in time.Just dont give up.But first the soul must be subjected to humility thus many afflictions will be upon you as you walk in the desert hungry and thirsty for the water of life.These are the sufferings and tribulations a true christian must go through as the world is likened unto a garden in which the almighty breeds His true sons.The weeds must be allowed or else there is no gain.The world remains today because of the sons of God so take courage and run to finish the race and win your crown and look forward to His loving words when He tells you 'Well done my good and faithfull servant'.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, and religions will guarantee to always keep us divided.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sin divides us, God reconciles.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That is not true according to Scriptures. Have you read them yet? Obviously not.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sin separates us from God ,better?

              Knowing your Bible doesnt make anyone better than anyone else btw-why even Satan knows the bible roll

  26. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    AEvans, I do not understand how anyone could read the whole book and not see the psychosis within.
    I do understand that you are a tolerant and reasonable person, but the scriptures are certainly not all tolerant and reasonable are they?

    I won't bore you with more of the horror bits from the OT, or the many contradictions in the NT that I have posted before, but I am curious as to why you are a believer.

    I see and know a lot of christians like yourself who are passive and decent, like to help others and don't rock the boat, and I appreciate them as I do you, I just don't get why you would believe the OT/NT crossover bit. smile

    No offence intended although I realise you would find many of my posts offensive as I do the religious posts that promise certain horrible death for non believers, and say my dear children are at risk because I lack belief in a god.

    1. AEvans profile image72
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      God isn't always tolerant and reasonable. Sometimes I don't understand why so many believers think he was always so loving. He was not. There are many contradictions in the Bible and that is because man has re-written the word of God to benefit them. The King James Bible is the most accurate, opposed to the NIV or any other version out there. I realize it is chocked full of thee, thou's and thy's but it seems to not be tainted. I believe there is a GOD because so many miracles have happened in my life. I know he is there. I also know they reference God in the old testament as two. Meaning there could be not one but two. People of course will argue that. I know when we die, we do not go to Heaven. Nobody has actually been there but Paul I believe and that was only one time. Purgatory exists and it is written, souls have to go somewhere but not to Heaven. All of our bodies go back to the Earth until Christ comes. There is so much I have learned from the Bible and I wish that others would read and understand it too.

      All that has happened to me and all that I have overcame was because GOD was there. I believe and I know he exists because of all of the blessings I have received, those blessings were not man made.

      Here is my thought I share with people who wonder about God.

      When a mother carries a child in there womb for 9 months, that child was conceived between two people. But how was that child truly created? How was it able to grow, fingers, toes, hair? How was it able to give expression and begin to feel? A baby is a beautiful creation and he/she is a miracle given to us by none other then God. He shows us that miracle everyday. :)God just wants us to see what he can do. smile

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Nice post.
        I agree the king james is the best version. NIV sucks.
        2 Corinthians 12:2   I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
        Paul was there in spirit or by vision, i prefer vision.
        We do not go to heaven - bravo

        I am interested in the two God theory you mentioned. Email me please about that, if you will sis.

    2. 0
      Allan Saverioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The teaching today that all sinners will suffer a horrible death in Hell does not picture an ever loving God thus the fear and confusion in society today. This is absolutely wrong.The truth is as the bible states and from Gods own words...All will be saved..which means all of mankind! So why the hell part?Imagine if hell was like a dream where you are subjected to purification in order to regret your sinful ways?Is God just?There is no fire which burns you physically!Its a symbol which signifies the cleansing of the sinful soul.A place of purification where that which causes you to sin in this world subjects you to repentence.You will suffer,yes!but it is of great regret to all the wrongs you have done.Finally the bible states that hell itself will be thrown into the lake of fire.This I believe when all mankind has been purified therefore the reason why the outer courtyard was not measured.There are many wrong teachings today that scare people away and I wonder who is behind it all????

    3. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You have contradictions in the NT
      I'd really love to read those please

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Google it. smile Others will. smile

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Put a little effort in.
          i'm sure you have them on a text file for quick copy and paste like your hate scripts.
          Besides i know there aren't any. I've seen them all but if you say you have actual contradictions then i am very interested. its a hobby of mine to thwart you in this area smile

        2. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers.  You consider that to be evidence that prayer works.  And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

          This needs to be revamped completely.

  27. noturningback profile image80
    noturningbackposted 5 years ago

    To be a Christian; confess Jesus Christ with your mouth that He is Lord and read Hs words, and follow his words and live the best and pleasing life you possibly can. Denominations ALL, must be second.
    These words from Christ are the best for me;
    Mark 12;29(b)-31 The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’There is no commandment greater than these.”

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Cool avatar smile

    2. AEvans profile image72
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nice. smile

    3. 0
      Allan Saverioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      To be a good christian is not only to confess but obedience is the most important of all.In the flesh we can love God but true love to the Father comes from obedience.It is the only acceptable sacrifice,a contrite and humble heart.Love can be felt by anyone but will all be willing to obey?Many preach and teach a lot of truths but few are willing to make an effort to obey.Loving the Lord your God with all is to obey so first one must come to fear God than we learn to love Him.Live in peace with men but live to please God.Be in the world but not of the world.
      Peace to you all.

  28. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Ah the pursuit of religious truth.

    http://godisimaginary.com/i5.htm

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ahhh atheist websites :p~
      so full of misinformation
      but whatever helps ya deal with your circumstances buddy

      proof #13
      Exodus Chapter 21, verse 1:

            Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

      Here God describes how to become a [u] slave for life, [/i] and shows that it is completely acceptable to separate slaves from their families. God also shows that he completely endorses the branding of slaves through mutilation. ( an earring lol we put those in for no reason at all )

      Here is a random verse i picked for that link of a moronic site you subscribe to. I just guess the fellah who wrote all this blah blah did not see that every 7th year the slaves are set free, gee that doesn't sound like life to me, odd how God should command that slaves be set free, how horrible is that?
      This was done so that slaves should not be seperated from their families, but i guess the author missed that point too.
      I assume the author missed an erroneous point that slaves just might dig their gig and want to remain slaves. How odd and psychotic is that.

      Really i could spend all night and a day picking such stupid information apart. This whole site is a cheap con job.

  29. lone77star profile image91
    lone77starposted 5 years ago

    Beautiful forum idea, @lucieanne.

    The real Christian is its founder. There may have been others, but they were individuals -- not denominations.

    And all religions have groups. Islam has Sunni, Shiite and others. Buddhism has Theravada and Mahayana and others. And Judaism also has many. Even in the time of Jesus, there were the Essenes, Sadducees and Pharisees.

    Ego makes people feel like they're right about their own group. Truth is often quite different.

    And like any good scientist, it takes humility to find answers -- not a "know it all attitude."

    1. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Lone77star, Jesus was not a christian, he was a Jew.  Christianity, or to put it more accurately, Christism, is a religion, built up by a collection of persons, cultures, ideologies,  down through history, with the aim of controlling people.  Just like, as you said, all religions.
      Each individual is entitled to believe what he or she wants, without interference from anyone else.  Yet no individual has the right to pressure others to believe the same.   Why would you want to convince others?   Does one's own belief depend on others believing it too? 
      I tend to agree with the statement that "most wars throughout history have been a result of religion."

  30. Jannie D profile image74
    Jannie Dposted 5 years ago

    As with any problem where there is only one solution, one believes in the one that has proven itself. I have been in many churches, and have been in a variety of problems which seemed to be insurmountable. An old lady told me to give my heart to Jesus, be born again and to maintain a relationship with Jesus Christ and entrust Him with everything in my life. Systematically my life turned around and my life took a road where at first there seemed to be no road. I am fulfilled and happy and wish the same for you. It has nothing to do with which church I joined.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Halleluljah -Thanks for your encouragement.

      God is good.

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        He is
        What a peaceful world it would be
        everybody believing in God and God being active in everyones life
        gives me goosebumps smile

        1. recommend1 profile image70
          recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Why would you think a world where a christian god was 'in everyone's lives' would be so good ?   It has taken over 700 years to get over the last time this was the normal state of affairs, and so many, like yourself, are still hankering to return to another dark age of ignorance and self-induced stupidity.

          1. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
            Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ah but this time they will know better and they have better tools for torture and extracting confessions of heresy. It'll be different this time. lol...

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              we won't be catholic this time.
              The early church never persecuted or tortured anyone at all.

              1. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
                Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Well even the protestants did that. Not as much as the Catholics of course but they had their fling.

                The early church was like now, a bunch of loosely related groups that disagreed on many things and try as they might couldn't organize themselves. Some even saw Jesus as a prophet for John the Baptist who they thought of as messiah.

                Some of those groups brought the wrath of Rome on all the groups by destroying temples to other gods and causing problems.

                If you know the history of Rome it becomes easy to understand why Constantine took the religion over. That's rather a lot to explain in a post but I did write a hub about it.

                Anyway, because of their disunity they had no power until Rome took them over and united them all. Some by force. That's   what Catholic means: universal. One god one church. One god one Emperor. A political slogan Constantine used to create a position where was  the only ruler. Previous to that there were several emperors at a time.

                Power comes from unity and standardization. The religion had to be kept pure. Hence the inquisitions.

                Were Christianity to gain hold of power again it would repeat what it has done in the past because it is essential to holding power that they do. If it is the truth, there can only be one truth so decent is destructive and can not be tolerated.

                I would not count on going back to before Rome to solve all your problems. They had plenty. Besides, you have no way of knowing exactly what early christianity was. Rome basically destroyed it and all but buried it.

          2. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The answer to that is simple
            I'm surprised you aren't able to notice it

  31. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Time for the top ten again already? lol


    Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

    10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

    9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

    8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

    7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

    6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

    5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

    4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering.  And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."


    3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

    2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers.  You consider that to be evidence that prayer works.  And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

    1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

    1. AEvans profile image72
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I am glad I am not one of them. smile

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm glad you're not one of them too. smile

        1. AEvans profile image72
          AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I think I would lose my mind if I was and wouldn't be very happy. smile

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think they have lost their minds, and I'm certain they are unhappy. smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Im really not that perfect to pass a judgement on the rest of the world,let alone God.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It doesn't require perfection, just honesty. smile

              2. earnestshub profile image89
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Not talking about "the rest of the world" though am I?

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  earnestshub wrote:

                  I think they have lost their minds, and I'm certain they are unhappy.

                  Who are 'they'? hmm

                  1. earnestshub profile image89
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The "You will go to hell if you don't follow the fairy" set. smile

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ouch ,me too.

        Glad I have a healthy sense of humor too lol

    2. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Just as a matter of interest, the Hindu Religion does not deify humans, as I understand it.  Their various "gods" are simply facets of the attributes of God,  The manifestations of the Devine as depicted in statues, animals, etc. 
      Although you could term me an atheist, I still reserve part of my understanding that there is some kind of "creator" that brought our finite, tangible, physical world into being.  I cannot fathom the nature of such a creator, but it's awesome, beautiful, mysterious and something worth bowing down to. 
      This Creator does not judge me, it just accepts me and loves me as part of it's Creation.

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What bought us in to being specifically was "ice ball earth." 650 million years ago.
        The evolution bought about by the 26% increase in oxygen allowed the development of complex life.

        There are some 160,000 fossils to prove it, and enough scientific evidence to reach the moon and back, it is laughable to ignore the data.
        When the earth was frozen, volcanoes erupted that filled the atmosphere with carbon dioxide.
        The ensuing chemical soup is what made conditions suitable for larger life forms.

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Anyone care to make an intelligent comment, or is this going to be like every other thread about religion and ignore all comments that are not goddunnit?

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Batterrrrr up!!!!!!!!!!!
            Why the earth wasn't one big ball of ice
            http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 141415.htm

            Snowball earth hypothesis challenged
            http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 083450.htm
            Outta the park!
            enjoy
            and btw
            goddunit

            1. earnestshub profile image89
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Wrong story, wrong time, wrong thread. lol lol lol
              Some things never change.

              65 million years ago....... NatGeo documentary.

              But then as we have seen so many times, you don't read the links do you?

              1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                would have helped if you had a link y'know....

                It seems that scientists have differing opinions and that doesnt bode well for them does it.

                I always read the links and i check everything i write, my goal is to be accurate and truthful inspite of my dislike for writing. If you want to poison the well use some proof okay don't just state your opinion because we have seen your opinion before, more than I am sure anyone wants to, and you obviously don't read what you write.
                nat geo is your bible huh, i will have to remember that next time you make a vague reference to something. smile

                1. earnestshub profile image89
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No, it would help if you had a normal understanding of common knowledge like other people do.

                  Unlike yourself I have many sources that I can cross reference, and your accuracy so far is more than questionable.
                  I think you run at around the 100% wrong mark when making your usually toothless attacks so far. lol

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    still no link... what good are all those sources when you cant even drag one up?
                    and all that compassion when you can't take the time to be compassionate.
                    You need to play with grandchildren more often, it seems you are becoming just nasty

                2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Like claiming life after death is a fact? Yes, I can see how some scientists would have a problem with that, like ALL of them. lollol

                  They really need a rotflmao smilie for these posts. Absolutely hysterical comedy.

                  I wonder how many Christians are doing face palms over your "accurate and truthful" comments.

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    and so your claim of a non belief in life after death is not a fact to you?

    3. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You need to change number 7 a bit
      7 - but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus"
      PHAROAH KILLING BABIES
      Exodus 1:15   And the KING OF EGYPT (PHARAOH) spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:
        Exodus 1:16   And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.
      GOD KILLING FIRSTBORNS
      Exodus 11:5   And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sits upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

      A firstborn does not indicate exclusively a baby, but if i had three brothers and my older brother was the first born, he not be a baby, but could be much older than me. If i were 10 the firstborn of the house could be 15. A firstborn could be 30 yrs old.

      But as we read, Pharaoh decided to kill male babies as they were birthed and came out into the air.

      So scratch that one mr know it all
      There are other wrongs too, but i am not going into details

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yah there won't be any reply to this

  32. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Eaglekiwi , The simple and saddest truth in the answer is this , each of us walks his [her] own path in thier beliefs.  And the most powerful believer of all leads by silent example. Walking that path in a humbled and giving manner. And the power of that believing is this . Each and every denomination or name of religion , has within it a majority of these kinds of souls. If nothing more  than this ? Goodness itself holds the power. I have seen them ! , the volunteers at the hospitals, in the church dinners , or in the little league dugouts with the kids. They roam the halls of nursing homes and show up at the many disasters around the world! Thats the real Christian , and they are the ones who will not make themselves a target HERE for the jackles of the forums.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Couldn't have said it better myself,actually I have often expressed similiar sentiments on this forum.
      Often I enjoy posts from other like minded Christians ,but I also enjoy the interaction with my fellow man ,period, at least the majority of the time.

      Of course I do understand thousands of people who love God serve him in much more productive ways that posting on a forum (like me) yet its also true there are 'silent readers' who never post ,but content to read. Occassionally someone will email me and leave a comment that encourages me in my faith.

      That being said ,the internet is just another tool and an opportunity to testify.

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image86
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this



      This sounds like me...I do everything but the little league. I do food bank collections instead.

      I don't claim to be Christian though.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good people have good hearts, thats what matters wink

        (Labels are only helpful,if your'e a can of peas destined for the grocery shelf) lol

    3. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nonsense, there are far more non-Christians who do those things than there are Christians. All you want to do is insult those who don't share your beliefs. Maybe that's the real Christian you speak about?

      1. ahorseback profile image47
        ahorsebackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Troubled man , Hogwash ! I dont care if you believe or not ,or share mine for that matter.  And there is no way Non believers  give more than the spiritually minded !  Im not one of the Christians that must turn my other cheek,  I dont doult that you or any non-believers do give !  Only that  Believers in a religion give more!

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I might disagree with that. Take the money put into the collection plate out of the equation and I doubt you'd have a difference. Giving to the institution of church does not equate to giving. That is simply sharing the cost of the overhead.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There are far more secular societies doing charity work then religious ones.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Until this is properly researched
            i would speculate the opposite

            Gods people are told to give
            nothing in secularism says this, in fact, secularism teaches we get what we work for and has a philosophy of me, me, me.

            Yes there are independent nice people who give, i see this at the food bank, not everyday or often in a week and majorly by older people, since its hard to get ahead as a young married couple these days, especially hard for single income families  and since we do not know if any of the above have a belief in God - many older people do in comparison to younger peeps - we ought not to judge.

            So we must leave this out of the debating field.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No, you would probably lie about it like you do most everything else.



              See, just as I suspected.



              Yes, please leave lying out of debate. Thanks.

              1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                applicable nick
                I used to wonder who would pick something like that?

                just as i suspected

  33. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Double , And perhaps I should have added , one doesnt have to ba a believer to be a good soul , a giver , But chances are ? The numbers are in thier favor. However , sounds like what you do is above and beyond! Rather than some of the imbittered warriors of Non-believers that roam the halls looking for the cheeks that turn to the other side.

  34. MsGreenQueen profile image61
    MsGreenQueenposted 5 years ago

    Simple really. There is no one true religion, no one perfect all knowing faith. Would god, who is our heavenly father, the creator of all of us, only share the keys to the kingdom with a few, knowing the great diversity that is this place called earth? Jesus & god love everyone, not just those who believe and practice in one certain faith, or believe in the way you do? No.

    The definition of what a true christian is, has gotten so lost and it's turned into a pissing contest. All the piety and judgement of those so called Christians is the complete opposite of what gods expects or wants from his people. It's simple, love god, your neighbor and yourself. Don't care which church someone attends or doesn't attend. Don't tell people you're the one true church, or that you have the keys to eternal happiness. Don't baptize others who've pass on in your church name, they didn't ask while alive and you're just being pushy and intrusive to their living family members.

    Just be a good person. God is not going to let those who hail from all these diffrent faiths, some not even Christian centric go to hell because they didn't believe like the Christian bible says. Some people make god way too complicated.

    It's simple. God is my heavenly father, my dad is my earthy. If my dad said, you can't come in my house because you didn't tithe, or stay a virgin before marriage--I'd say WOW some dad YOU ARE. All of these man made rules that use god as an excuse to be pious, is not what he's about.

  35. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Here is some of what "he" is about.


       The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered."  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

    A mythical lunatic.

    1. MsGreenQueen profile image61
      MsGreenQueenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If you take anything out of context you can make it look crazy. Sure there are some VERY insane verses in the bible, it was written by man. I view the bible as a book of parables, n which to learn from, not take literal.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yea I do too.
        Proverbs are fantastic,kept me sane when I was a young busy parent..then reassured me I wasnt crazy when work got demanding..now Im older ,I nod and understand the wisdom, and the best part was its true and free.

        Anyone can post pieces of a book,or watch a trailer for a movie,but it is never ever the same as te REAL thing smile

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Is this somehow not the real thing?


          Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD's judgment has come.  The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners.  "On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs.  Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies, and those who steal and kill to fill their masters' homes with loot.  "On that day," says the LORD, "a cry of alarm will come from the Fish Gate and echo throughout the newer Mishneh section of the city. And a great crashing sound will come from the surrounding hills.  Wail in sorrow, all you who live in the market area, for all who buy and sell there will die.  "I will search with lanterns in Jerusalem's darkest corners to find and punish those who sit contented in their sins, indifferent to the LORD, thinking he will do nothing at all to them.  They are the very ones whose property will be plundered by the enemy, whose homes will be ransacked.  They will never have a chance to live in the new homes they have built.  They will never drink wine from the vineyards they have planted.  "That terrible day of the LORD is near.  Swiftly it comes – a day when strong men will cry bitterly.  It is a day when the LORD's anger will be poured out.  It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness, trumpet calls, and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and strongest battlements!  "Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path.  Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground."  Your silver and gold will be of no use to you on that day of the LORD's anger.  For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy.  He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth.   (Zephaniah 1:7:18 NLT)

          Where do psychopathic threats fit the model. Care to enlighten me as to it's "real" meaning?

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            War?


            It would be a brave man or a foolish man that would read this and mock.

            Earnest your posts are quite repetitive(on Gods wrath) and I do get that you have decided to not stand in silence.

            Its all relevant-thats what makes it REAL

            1. earnestshub profile image89
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well I am not a fool.
              and my posts are not as repetitive as the goddunnit arguments here. lol

              I can't imagine how one could mock a god who's power is in threatening it's subjects and starting wars unless your god is the mythical zeus, it is self mocking.

              All the threats and hate in the bible is for what exactly if not to control the terminally fearful?

              1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Don't touch the burner! - threat

                Speed and you'll get a ticket - threat

                If you don't go to school you won't get a good job - threat

                seems perception is in the ear of the hearer

            2. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              How about someone who just isn't gullible? lol

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                ..The critism is not original or new roll

                You really should get more creative with your insults.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, I see, so your insult regarding fools is perfectly acceptable?

                  The hypocrisy is astounding! lol

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And your attitude immature-oh well

                  2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Are you mad at me ,or God?

                    Either way you really need to do something constructive about it.

                  3. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Gosh you ever get tired-tired of being wrong hmm

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So, the insanity of the Bible kept you sane? lol

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Why dont you share about your own life ? but I do thank-you for showing an awful lot of interest in mine smile least youre reading my posts.

      2. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Except when it helps your argument no doubt. smile

        I see it in it's entirety, not just the nice bits.

        Parable or not, it is patently obvious that the words are psychotic.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't see the psychosis in God calling a people out of slavery and into a populated world. Where were they to go? All the area except for the desert was inhabited, but they had to go somewhere, so God took his people into the best of lands, since He wanted the best for them and he went to lengths to make that possible, after the desert, which purified the malfactors from amongst the group, he took them to a land that flowed with milk and honey and there were people in that land, but he helped them to obtain it. He taught them how to have a flawless society that would prosper, taught them cool things and how to survive. Won their battles for them and often did the killing himself so they would not have to. He even told them to surrender to nebuchadnezzar in jeremiah, but they wouldn't. Sure he gave them some hardship for their rebellions but maybe that is in part because he planned to crucify his son on a cross so that they and many generations after that could believe and be saved all the while they chose to ignore God - the same thing happens today, it is really no different. So God spread them out across the globe, equivalent to the Early Church persecutions which only spread the gospel of jesus christ throughout the known world - yes, war and persecution worked to spread the word, ironically enough, and death happens, but who is in charge of death - God. Some people who die for Gods sake get to go home early which is not such a bad thing - merciful even.
          I could go on, but i won't.
          You can see only the psychosis but to millions of successful christians they, we, me only see the love and we, they know that love wears many hats.
          So once again the bigger picture is of importance.
          Not just your ability to copy and paste scripture out of context.

      3. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
        Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think christians tend to make crazy things look sane and are surprised when atheists see through the ruse. The trouble is christians have talked themselves in to believing the insane is really sane so you can't even really call them liars; and they get upset when you call them delusional.

  36. Lois Tallent profile image60
    Lois Tallentposted 5 years ago

    All those you have listed are just religions. Christianity is a faith or belief that Christ is the son of God and was conceived by the Holy Spirit. It's the Holy trinity Father Son & Holy Spirit. And that Christ shed his blood, died for our sins. Taking then to hell, suffered the prosecution from his own kind when he was nailed to the cross. We believe in him and therefore are forgiven our trespasses, and we are born again when we accept him into our hearts. Follow him and let the Holy Spirit guide you and you will know for yourself. God Bless~

    1. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
      Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nope. Not all people who call themselves Christians agree that Jesus was god or part of god or part of a trinity. There is even division as to what the trinity is and how it works among the major religions.

      Trinity is a Roman construct and not biblical anyway.

      The best you can all agree on is that Jesus is or was your saviour. There are even some who I have met who disputed that and still called themselves christian. Who are you to say they aren't?

      There is no set criteria for being christian. You say you are, ok, so you are.

      1. Lois Tallent profile image60
        Lois Tallentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Really? Does that come from the New Testament? Being Christian is believing that Jesus is the Son of God and accepting him into your heart, then following his way of life. You can find it in the New Testament if you care to research further. Read the book of John.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          True. The trinity is not in the bible.
          That was a doctrine establish by the Counsil of Nicaea in 325CE.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh come on DS... Christians that are not fundies?  Pfft... they don't exist.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              smile Figments of my imagination, I guess. smile Danged divine visions....

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What I find funny is that most of the fundies seem to think that their version of Christianity is the only one.  Ironically, most of the die-hard anti-religionists agree.

                I guess it makes arguing easier... Seems kinda rigid to me though.

                1. earnestshub profile image89
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Many of the christians who argue on here are fundies, and many of the arguments are amongst themselves. smile

                2. 0
                  RookerySpoonerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I think it is because the fundamentalists make themselves more obvious.  They have the louder voices, and the zeal, so of course they are more noticeable than the quiet religious believer, who keeps their beliefs to themselves.  And to the fundamentalist, it is they who are the true Christians, because they beleve in the fundamentals of the faith without question.

                3. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  When it comes to beliefs, religious or other, there is no right or wrong. They are beliefs (not always base on facts but evidence, which is interpretation). Faith is a funny thing. It requires nothing more than a firm belief in things not seen or proven. Which means, no-one is right or wrong.

                  Even in science, not everything is fact, some things are based on strong supportive evidence and is left open-ended awaiting definitive proof.

                  Why do you think that I rarely discuss any part of my personal beliefs. I can't prove any of them. It is just how I see and intrepret things.

                  I agree that there are "fundies" from both side of the fence.

                  I have a saying that I like to use. "Just when you think the grass is greener on the other side, cross over and you might discover it is nothing more than Astroturf" Just because something looks better, doesn't mean it is beneficial to your well-being.

                4. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
                  Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I think you are right. It does make it a lot easier to argue. Also the Fundamentalists say they are literalists. I suppose if you are going to argue for a god and point to the bible then the bible should be read as the literal word.

                  I read the bible in the same way and it makes sense that way, as written without a lot of interpretation. Reading it that way set me free of it. wink

                  Of course the fundies do not take it literally. They interpret according to a set of conservative doctrines.

                  But really, if you believe in jesus and god but don't believe the words of the bible what do you base your religion on? How can I argue hell when the christian i am talking to doesn't believe in a literal hell? All of the moderate Christians have cherry picked their religion. The fundies as crazy as they can be don't cherry pick.

                  I'm not saying they are real christians or more real than any other. I'm just saying they are easier to argue with and they are the ones who want to teach creationism in public schools and have their beliefs reflected in politics. The moderates usually like separation of church and state.  Aftr all, they implemented it. It wasn't atheists.

                  So really the fundy is the one I am interested in arguing with. The moderate and I can usually get along. lol...

        2. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
          Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I've read John. No trinity there. Sorry. Son of god? Everyone is the son or daughter of god according to some. We are all god's children are we not?

          And then there is the old testament that often refers to the sons of god, which christianity has bastardized in to meaning angels so they would not be gods themselves by default. Wouldn't do to have more than one. Be that as it may.

          Now you may want to talk about virgin birth. So we may say he was supposedly half god half man. That still makes him completely separate from god like we are.

          Then there are all the references made  Jesus that tell us he is completely separate from god. But the christians have "explanations" for those too.

          No, my friend. Rome is the source of the trinity. It is not biblical. But Rome is famous for them. Many of their gods were trinities. The Egyptians did it too but usually only paired their gods together as one. The Romans did three at a time.

          Look it up. The truth is out there. lol...

    2. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And you don't think, from all that you said, Lois, that christianity is a religion?!!!!  Please, continue in your own faith, there is nothing wrong with that, and no one is entitled to take it from you.  But get real!  Be honest with yourself.  Don't bury your head in the sand!
      As for the "church,"  it is the "Convenient Hierarchical Use of Religion for the Control of Humanity."  Does it control you?

  37. 72
    SanXuaryposted 5 years ago

    God is not planning the war he is predicting what man will do on his own. Making all men at war with God that will eventually bring about his intervention in order to save man kind from himself. We constantly blame God for all our ills that are man made. If you look at the state of the World it is a little hard to deny. What is not hard to deny is that we our the ones responsible for our own destruction. Ancient scripture of the past is simply Gods proof that he has more power over this World then we do. Our inability to view Gods punishment is an act that is intended to save the believer and to convince the unbeliever that man can not serve any purpose without the guidance of God.

    1. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Who taught you that? Myths are just that.... mythical.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No, it's just ancient scripture. lol

  38. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    I personaly think its mythical to believe in nothing  over something in spirituality , I'll go for something ! At least a believer doesn't get off on spewing a bitter hatred of those who don't! As evident in the such familiar faces among the forums .   Its really just a matter of being a bit too narcisistic , I'm afraid ! Open up your heart Earnest !

    1. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Open up your mind ahorses, the filth spewed out of the mouths of the religiously impaired from their myth is enough to make an onion cry.
      Disgusting liars threatening decent people with their fairy....... it doesn't get worse than that.

      You just refuse to see it because to you it is "the word"

      Well I have a word for you.
      Megalomania.

  39. 0
    RookerySpoonerposted 5 years ago

    I believe the last person who would be accepted as a Christian today, would be that poor Jewish Galilean carpenter.  What he would make of the splendour of the Vatican, or the wars that have been fought in His name, I cannot imagine.

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Obviously he would weep

  40. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Loved the word "obtained"

    Makes my case in one word.

  41. A Troubled Man profile image61
    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago

    Are you recessing, eaglewiki? lol

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      eagle  wiki? 

      Aww like the new name -takes a lil bow

  42. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    No, what is a helluva lot more likely is that the superstitious nonsense told to the ignorant masses thousands of years ago is a pile of old myths that are recycled in such a way as to provide a bunch of liars with a free meal and somewhere to sleep without having to do any more than satisfy their superstitious minds with gobbledegook.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You have a wonderful way with words, Ernestshhub.    So definite in your stance, and I see none of the "luke-warm" stuff.  Keep it up, I love it.

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you.

        I am very clear in my own mind as to the differences between truth and fantasy, and it is good to know you can see my position as plainly as I intended. smile

        1. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I was brought up a christian.  Questioned its demands of me.  Got no satisfactory answers from those who said they were loved and loving.   That so-called love was EGO, in my opinion.   So I dropped it.  Started and continued to think for myself.   Not always right, not always wrong.   Still lots I don't know.
          But like you, I do see the make-believe.  It's ok for people like Lois (above) to have their faith if that helps them in their life.  Free choice.  But not to be "sold" and claimed to be the ultimate truth to those who are vulnerable.  This has been the root cause of wars and cruelty down though history.
          You and I also have the free choice and we can see the lies clearly.  -  we are right to reject it for ourselves.
          In my humble opinion......

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I can both empathise and relate to your comment. I was a very serious christian at one time, and learned my way out of it by studying religion.

            I feel very confident in my decisions, I live with love all around me. The real sort, not the "you can be loved if" of the religious tomes.

            The freedom is an interesting one. I have always been free in a way. I was working from age 6 with my amputee father jointly hacking a living out of logging, and spent a lot of time alone deep in the forests of Victoria Australia.

            I am lucky enough to be alive to life having been surrounded by nature's beauty without anyone telling me what it was in relation to myself, and have always been that fool who will even chat to a worm. lol

            These days I live with most of my beautiful grandchildren and never want to see them put through the fear and judgement of others that religion entails.

            I live in a sane place full of love, and know how lucky I am and why. smile

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Deleted

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I read that... three times as a matter of fact...  The question I have now is whether I would have had to do MORE drugs in college or LESS drugs in college to understand it.  I know its not a problem with my reading comprehension or vocabulary, I'm pretty solid on both.  I understand the meaning of the words separately... I just don't think they were meant to go together in the order that you put them in...

                Now my head hurts.

                Thanks.

              2. earnestshub profile image89
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                All I write is verbatim from your own source, the "good book".



                That isn't a factor I suppose. lol

        2. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There is a problem with your theory of 'superstitious nonsense told to the ignorant masses thousands of years ago'. This is the double doctrine standard.
          Socrates and Plato were key in this, they existed 465bc and 427bc, over 400 years before jesus and before christianity.
          Soooo the double doctrines they were teaching were not about Christ or christianity but the pagan myths. Its the pagan myths that were expounded for control over the masses. Christianity wasn't even around then.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            earnestly, nothing to say?

            chalk in hand...

  43. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 5 years ago

    That would be George Bush smile

    1. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol lol

  44. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    We all know the story.


    Your god made himself, made us, killed all but 8 of us because he screwed up and couldn't deal with it because of his neurosis, so he became his own son, then killed himself to atone for something he caused in the first place.

    Then he disappeared in a cloud of ridiculous mythology of his own making. lol

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      or this story

      nothing came from nothing and became something then something walked out of nothing and evolved into something which screws everything up but oh well it dies and I b. i be. i bel.. i believe thats all folks.
      (looney tunes theme)
      and then into a cartoon

  45. Kaiserfailed profile image84
    Kaiserfailedposted 5 years ago

    Why does Hubpages - an article content host - allow such off-center, totally irrelevant, random postings about religion and the like? I've never seen this. Most forums on other writing sites are full of SEO tips, marketing, promotion and the like.
    And really? "Which is the right" form of Christianity? What? You are just departmentalizing and categorizing people for no reason. Who the heck cares?
    All I want to know is how to make more money with my Hubpages articles.

    1. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Fair enough too I say! You are gonna need more than 2 hubs though. smile

  46. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Yeh good on ya cobler sport mate pal!

    You must have been hearing those voices in your head again cobblers. lol

    You sound just like your god. smile


    There was one thing you said that made sense.

    "God doesn't exist other than to be a psycho, christians are all indoctrinated idiots, meglomaniacs, religiously impaired, the list is long indeed.


    Yes, it is long indeed.

    Of course I speak of the zealots who are not only impaired religiously, but intellectually as well. smile

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yah makes me kinda ill to quote you, mr.  clark kent

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm sorry that you believe that I think I am superman in disguise simply because I have enjoyed a successful and fulfilled life without answering to you invisible friend brothery.
        I fear that you may be even more like your fairy than I thought.

        Jealousy is a curse ya know. smile

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          its a parable.
          i knew you'd get it all wrong and out of context.

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If you knew I would get it wrong and out of context, why did you write it?


            The idea with communications is to be understandable as strange a concept as that may seem to you.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              cuz i like correcting all that you write.
                 Including your incorrect statement, "i multitask like a woman".
                 The thing about self evaluation is that when one evaluates the object is not to discard the stuff one doesn't like and push it to one side, keeping it out of the evaluation process, but, to actually include all observations, the bad things, dubious, inconspicuous and conspicuous, however black and evil the material may be, it ALL needs to be included in the analysis to come to an informed and hopefully truthful conclusion.
                  For example if someone comes in here and acts all lovey dovey and smiley and then abuses his pets. IF that person ever evaluates itself it needs to include the abuse to puppies in the content of the evaluation as well as the lovey dovey, of course in this scenario, the conclusion would be that, that someone is not so great a person. In fact may have a problem.

              I'm not going to bother to respond to that second paragraph. Perhaps if you apply my third paragraph you may stop writing paragraphs like your second paragraph.
              I hope i communicated this well to you, although, please don't blame me if you are not able to understand it, it isn't rocket science.

  47. thirdmillenium profile image71
    thirdmilleniumposted 5 years ago

    A real Christian? He does not have to belong to any of the established denominations. If he believes that Jesus is the way to God, that God had given all powers to Jesus and prays to Him whenever appropriate.

    He should also follow Jesus' teaching to the word. No compromise here. If Jesus had said "Don't look at a girl with desire", that is it. "Let me steal glance and nothing more", will just not do.

    So, are there any real Christians? I doubt if there are!

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      He said not to lust.
      Lust is an action whereby wrong thoughts occur.
      Looking at a woman and thinking nice, is not lustful, it is lustful if you fantasize about nailing her or you allow thoughts to go in any sexual scenario.
      So stealing a glance is not wrong.
      So are there any real christians? I think so

      1. thirdmillenium profile image71
        thirdmilleniumposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I am sorry I had been so subtle. What I meant by DESIRE was in deed LUST

  48. recommend1 profile image70
    recommend1posted 5 years ago

    Well - I took a read through and looked at the 'for' posts and it is blindingly clear that there are no christians making their voices heard in this thread.

    The simple test would be to consider what the christ figure(mythical or not) would have to say about it all,  not the pile of dogma that is the excuse for a holy book.

    Most of those who think that they are little soldiers would be quietly sent off to the doctor and the rest he would take off and give them the same education he started with (or is alleged to have started with),  starting with how to read.

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There are hardly any real Christians who follow Jesus; they are Catholics, Protestants etc, 32000+ denominations, none following Jesus the Christ.

      1. recommend1 profile image70
        recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The issue is that their denomination is not important, and also for Muslim - none are following what the figure (real or mythical) of jesus.  The message that is claimed to have come directly from his mouth is not being followed - they are all following ONLY their own ego and twisting the words of their own god to suit their various predilections.

        1. moonfroth profile image81
          moonfrothposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I just discovered this forum, so forgive me for NOT reading in close detail  all the thoughtful ideas, rant and drivel, stimulating new directions, bombast, challenging perspectives, self-serving nonsense, and raw opinion presented as biblical research.  A skim indicates that all of the above is here.

          I would add one comment:  quite a few of the posts focus on the authenticity. of "text".  Did God write it (hmm--if God has hands, wouldn't that limit his Being in some way?.  Just a thought. . .)?  Or controversial Paul?  Jesus, apparently, eschewed the written word, so that rules him out.  And how about all those amazing, and quite DRAMATIC differences among the multitude of cults and sects within "Christianity"--they all claim to have a monorail on the Truth.  How can that be?  Then there are all the OTHER great world religions, all with gazillions of cults and sects under their various umbrellas, and every one of them claiming to have a monorail on Truth--what do we do with all THEM?  Oh!  Oh!--and let's note that in the bible, as in many of the myths/stories of other religions, and in the naturalistic religions of indigenous people separated in space and time from Western civilization, we find the SAME core myths.  The flood, the concept of a Messiah, of resurrection, of a heaven, a hell (you want to read a vision of Hell that'll curl your toes, read the Epic of Gilgamesh, Mesopotamia, touted broadly as the oldest written story on earth), etc. etc.

          Could it possibly be that MEN, in various places at various times in various cultures and with various motivations, conceived of and wrote these marvellous tales in attempts to explain and understand the bewildering and often terrifying world around them?  Why is it so THREATENING to so many people to even entertain the idea that all this richness of story could have coe from US, rather than some disembodied spirit that then modofies and relocates his message a thousand different ways over space and time?

          I'm asking seriously.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Gilgamesh
            First I want to say, that why is this earths oldest writing more credible than the bible? Its older. Its of a strange language, Sumerian and in cuneiform. Written in clay and with bits broke off. So how is this translated properly? How is it more credible than the bible? No one knows its author, etc. anyway.

            The flood of the Epic of Gilgamesh is contained on Tablet XI2 of twelve large stone tablets that date to around 650 B.C. These tablets are not originals, fragments of the flood story have been found on tablets that date to 2,000 B.C. It is likely that the story itself originated much before that, since the Sumerian cuneiform writing has been estimated to go as far back as 3,300 B.C.

            Since we are telling a tale of a flood story lets begin with mentioning certain criteria that will be common in any flood story: a flood, boat, supplies, people in some cases animals too. Since people escaped the flood they had to be warned, who would know better than God(s). These are givens or non variants. But why would a flood story even be told unless there was a flood? There had to be a flood.  Both the Mesopotamians and Hebrews lived in the same area both recant the same story of a huge deluge. The flood timeline is 2400 bc, bible flood, coming out of egypt 1600, a 800 yr period of oral transmission before being written. Not a long gap for cultures based on oral information.

            The first things we notice about gilgamesh is its silliness, warring gods fighting amongst themselves, a hero picked for no apparent reason at all. The timings are different, bible flood lasted a year, gilga 3 weeks. Gilga had several periods of 7 day events. The number 7 is not unknown in bible language but the bible uses 40 and 150. The gilgamesh boat was unsailable - check the stats for yourself - the bible boat is quite seaworthy. Certain points i have made show that these versions are not copied from one another but are separate renditions of an actual occurrence, which i have stated before was not 'world' wide. God is very much a being of truth and accuracy therefore the bible version is so very much more sophisticated than the somewhat comical gilgamesh version.


            http://s4.hubimg.com/u/5643231.jpg

        2. 72
          SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          We fail as people to understand the journey as individuals to know our part in the body, Gods purpose and spiritual growth that requires personal salvation. No person can convince the individual because they must convince themselves. We fail to separate Earthly and Heavenly things and attempt to mix man into every equation always corrupting the process of spiritual growth. The requirement is sanctuary and providing it to others in order for God to do the work for us. We judge our success on the perception of others based on Earthly requirements and judge others on if they meet such expectations. I say read the Bible and ask if it provides you a lesson on creating sanctuary in yourself, your home and elsewhere. Does it inspire spiritual growth and maturity and allow you to see past the argument of free will and this World. You can not save anyone and you can not condemn them into belief. Anything that includes man can not hold judgement  over others for they do not understand the personal journey, relationship or purpose that Gods will is in the individual. The great study is that we our spiritual beings that our seeking to fill this void in our lives. Constantly corrupted by life on Earth their our countless choices in search of this. Many faiths and countless churches some created by condemnation and others with a desire to simply control others. The great lesson is that they all occurred to provide a answer we seek that can only be found in the Bible if you choose to be labelled a Christian. Do not become corrupted by man in the process or allow him to determine your salvation. Seek answers and understand the difference between what is Earthly and what is Heavenly. Understand free will and know that all can not be saved we only have a short time on Earth in order to mature and know our true purpose in Heaven.

          1. moonfroth profile image81
            moonfrothposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            @ Sanxuary
            Thanks for the response.  I know, as do you, how difficult--if not utterly irresolvable--these theological questions are.  You are obviously a strong Believer.  I am not.  So when you base your response only on your deep faith, you are not presenting arguments in which I can engage; rather, you are simply making Assertions.  And those Assertions spring exclusively from your deep faith, so we end up going in circles.  Very quickly, your remarks will probably become condescending, then laden with pity, that I cannot see the light and thus am doomed.  So we will have gone nowhere, UNLESS you cared to address one or two of my queries directly and specidically.  That would be great!

            1. 72
              SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Not even close in fact I do not know the mystery of God or salvation and believe each individual is determined by their personal relationship with God. I believe that we our selfish because God made us that way. Why because we must save ourselves first. One can claim it is the body in humanistic terms or the soul in spiritual terms. I believe that free will was a requirement and must be allowed in this determination and life is to short. I believe that many who believe in God may save there self but never establish God in their life or their home and that is why they leave church, etc and simply become what you may call hypocrites. They condemn others when they forget faith is a practice and perfection is not achievable but maturity is. They may be more mature but forget all the children still growing and instead of teaching them they seek discipline first. You can not do this with an unbeliever for even I would rebel. Historically man has always created Gods and religions around the World because there must be a need. I believe free will on Earth is a requirement and Jesus even condemned the Religious leaders of the day for it was a man made church based on man made requirements that replaced God with life and things on Earth. There our many examples of God finding people outside of the establishments of his day and people who most would consider unlikely to do Gods work. The murderer on the cross believed in Jesus and received salvation that day. If he had lived I wonder if he would have continue to mature or return to his old ways and lose his salvation, I am only guessing that Jesus  knew that he would not.  I believe in God because I have been through hell and was saved many times but condemned by many so called believers as well. My personal relationship is stronger then any man or church and they hold no power over my soul. I was not convinced by them but God himself. For each person has a different journey and purpose and if we granted everyone sanctuary we would not condemn one another so easily. I think you our doing just fine and you our looking for your own answers, good luck.

              1. moonfroth profile image81
                moonfrothposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                @sanxuary
                "Not even close". . .to WHAT?  Are you responding to my post immediately above?  If so, I don't understand what my post is not "close" to.  Please explain.

      2. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Just like the followers of muhammad eh Paara? lol

  49. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    So you got your message from the voices in your head?
    or did god come and talk to you personally. Do you have photos?
    or are you the only one who can see him?

    If any of the above is true, seek psychological assistants right now.

    1. 72
      SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No it is more like being in very dark places dealing with people like you. Facing condemnation and being a messenger and watching you play stupid human games of predictability. I usually tell them they win and then ask them what they won. Then I remain patient and see God change your life as you struggle in denial and your whole life fall apart as he convinces you to make a choice. Often times I show up and give you the message because something will happen today or tomorrow. Blind you our the one being played and really I have nothing to do with this and no matter how much you attack me I only realize that it is not my problem.

      1. recommend1 profile image70
        recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh good, another rambling babble merchant.

      2. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well you are just another bone ignorant-by-choice fundamentalist to me, so why don't you and your invisible friend go and play on the highway? smile

        1. 72
          SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The real question is why would you waste your time on a blog, where they ask where the so called real Christian is? When it is apparent that you our not even capable of answering the question. If you our not even interested or open minded why do you waste your time being ignorant to those who answer the question? In truth, I really do not care if you believe or not. There is no requirement for me to do anything in terms of convincing you. I respect your free will to determine your own existence and even accept the fact that you have every right to determine your own fate. I am no fundamentalist and they would probably condemn me. Why, because I believe that people like you have a right to not believe.

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            A couple of points here. This is not a blog. It's a forum.
            I am not some low life form, I am a respectable retired businessman and grandfather who loves all his kids and their kids and live a moral life.

            I write hubs here, lots of them, I come on the religious forums to discuss with reasonable people who aren't shafting me and my family off to hell because I don't believe as they do.

            The religiously infirm on the other hand explain that we are all evil sinners and are lesser than those who own a private fairy.

            I used to be religious, and it took me a while to get away from the indoctrination. I did that by learning, not by clamping my hands over my ears and repeating "I can't here you" like the religious loony do. If anyone brings an argument to the table we can discuss it like grown ups.

            Telling me your invisible fairy is gonna beat up on me, well that just gives me the s*its, and I reply in kind.
            Threats and "wisdom? by proxy from an invisible best friend doesn't cut it for me.

            Religious threats are a form of megalomania I have little sympathy for, because it is ignorance by choice.

            1. 72
              SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I believe that sin is often taken out of context. The requirement is to recognize sin in order to overcome it and mature spiritually. There are so many guidelines that there is no way to know them all. Even more insane is the argument as to which ones are sins or simply advice. That is why I believe the individual must read and discover there own hang ups in life and obstacles to overcome and improve their life. A lot of it is a huge lesson plan but each person has a different lesson to learn and I think a lot of churches fail to recognize this. They tend to go with a one shoe fits everyone plan and I am not sure if a plan made by people is even possible to follow. Trust me I do not really fit in any church but I fit into the Bible as I understand it. I entertain so many things that many call nonsense. I ask how science can believe in dark matter, multi verses and all kinds of qua-tom physics and not believe in the possibility of God. Then I wonder how Christians can not  entertain the possibility that God may have science behind his creation and we have no idea if it might be something we discovered. Still I think it is so vast that no man will ever know standing on Earth.

  50. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    The sky fairy story sucks like the intake on a jetliner.

    How and why would an omnipotent omniscient omnipresent entity "control" it's creation?
    Think about it.
    Think about how ridiculous it would be to get a bunch of writers to write down your holy words in a manner that was threatening, inhumane and completely psychotic even by our low human standards.
    Any wonder this last god of so many has split in to the bible and quoran.

    The Jesus story? Thin on the ground that he ever existed....no reliable evidence at all.
    Apollonius of Tyana. Also "the son of god" (along with a dozen others)has real solid proof of his existence.

    God. In the old testament is a psychotic sociopathic homicidal maniac who is jealous and easily offended. (low self worth?)
    This "loving" god wiped out all but 8 of mankind as well as all the birds. The birds are even harder for me to swallow) smile

    He condoned rape, slavery, torture, eternal damnation, the burning that goes on forever for the people he loves, then suddenly he becomes his own son and kills himself soon after the son debunks everything his old man had said in the OT while telling everyone how wonderful this psychopath daddy was and that we should worship him, not jesus himself.
    Among the religions I have knowledge or experience of is the catholic church, who accidently get one thing partly right with the idea of a trinity, but that is a long story worthy of 6 years of psychology.

    The OT as well as the NT are both compilations of many other jesuses and gods who's almost identical stories have been told since man could scribble on a wall.
    They all have the same theme. Tell others how they MUST live their lives, and how they must behave towards their beliefs.

    Total bull*hit the lot of it, and unravelling it takes a good five minutes with a basic understanding of psychological principals, logic and common sense.
    Despite it's wordiness, the bible ain't rocket science.

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The sky fairy story sucks like the intake on a jetliner.
      speculation from a bitter and biased point of view

      How and why would an omnipotent omniscient omnipresent entity "control" it's creation?
      Every society has controls. Controls are needed. They ensure the safe, livelihood of individuals. The bible shows what life is like without these controls, with these controls and when these controls are ignored.

      Think about how ridiculous it would be to get a bunch of writers to write down your holy words in a manner that was
      Writiing is good. Every society wrote down its ordinances. The american constitution should ring a bell
      threatening: judgment for sin. Predictions (prophecies) of what would happen IF Gods ways were not restored. We have the same thing today, we break a law we do jail time. In the right environment, police training, law school, prison, etc we would hear threats all the time, but these are not really threats they are cause and effect. Walk into a court room and in the background the threat of judgment is hovering, but these places are not dealing with the overall sins of an entire society, just individuals.
      inhumane     once again and how many times do i have to repeat myself, harsh times, harsh repercussions. When a government wants to install a new system of doing things or a landlord wants a tenant to move out or parents wants their kids to leave home what do they do, they make the old system useless and thereby persuade the masses or the individual that change is good. In Gods judgments of bringing nations to war with his people, he was instituting change, a change they would not like. It is not as though God never gave them warning, they had plenty of time to change their actions. Everything they needed to promote the ways of God were right there, nothing was hidden. God told them before, if ye do this, and he told them after, then i will do this and this pattern applied to both his promises and his judgments. Nothing inhumane at all, considering the times and the necessity of change. They shoot horses don't they smile
      completely psychotic even by our low human standards. I'd laugh but you just repeat this garbage so often, i actually feel remorse

      Any wonder this last god of so many has split in to the bible and quoran.
      Few realize that the masonics are to blame for koran and it was invented in a warlike manner specifically to thwart christianity. Masonics have been controlled by catholicism, just like the jesuits, knights templar. Catholicism uses the muslim religion as a front or an escape goat to take the blame and make itself look all proper. If you have missed all this information its out there.

      The Jesus story? Thin on the ground that he ever existed....no reliable evidence at all.
      Heaps of evidence mate, in fact, there are no theologians who deny the existence of Jesus at all, but you are too far from anything i might say about it.
      Apollonius of Tyana. Also "the son of god" (along with a dozen others)has real solid proof of his existence.
      He has nothing to offer than he was an unhireable court magician. His texts were written by his followers years after he died without a resurrection and his movement died with him. His teachings never pointed to God and he couldn't even stand up to Peter (apparently) So you have read something about him or seen a video, big deal. Lots of people have documentation about themselves, this is not evidence against but just a comparison to be made between the two and Jesus knocks his socks off, without documentation as you wish it to be and without even competing.

      God. In the old testament is a psychotic sociopathic homicidal maniac who is jealous and easily offended. (low self worth?)
      not low self worth lol.. so much for 30 yrs of study once again down the drain.. we are made in his likeness... that means we are like him or he is like us. He is loving, jealous, kind, prudent, angry, thoughtful, forgiving, honest, creative, strong, generous etc, and a bunch of things we are not, immortal, etc.

      This "loving" god wiped out all but 8 of mankind as well as all the birds.
      yep.

      He condoned
      -rape
      nope
      -slavery
      in order to pay off debts and slavery properly done was not slavery at all
      -torture
      nope. That was the other guys
      -eternal damnation
      The lake of fire - yep - very merciful, unfortunate but necessary
      -the burning that goes on forever for the people he loves
      nope,, that's a catholic doctrine and its wrong 

      then suddenly
      Not suddenly, the Jews were expecting a messiah. Gods plan was in the works from the beginning.

      he becomes his own son and kills himself
      so lame... he incarnates and then gives up his life to end a covenant of sacrifice and bring in a new covenant not based on physical sacrifice. Why did he use a human body? To do a lot of good, heal, teach, become tangible evidence, to resurrect (can't resurrect without a previous body) and to redeem human beings - the animal just covered the transgressions a human was needed to eliminate the sin, SO, God used himself not someone else, himself. Had a human tuxedo and went a walkin.

      soon after the son debunks
      not a debunking. Jesus got BACK to the heart of the matter. He said people need to be righteous the same thing God said in the OT

      everything his Father had said in the OT while telling everyone how wonderful this psychopath daddy was and that we should worship him, not jesus himself.
      completely wrong

      Among the religions I have knowledge or experience of is the catholic church,
      and yet when i said you were catholic before you chewed my head off and made me to look like i was lying ... figures dunnit

      who accidently get one thing partly right with the idea of a trinity, but that is a long story worthy of 6 years of psychology.
      oh good just like your 30, well maybe you can understand psychology better, at least i hope so because your grasp of bible sucks like an intake on a jetliner, if you disagree, look back over this post and check other posts that have mortally wounded you. Of course you were catholic, its written all over ya

      Despite it's wordiness, the bible ain't rocket science.
      but some don't get it. Imagine that

      Its very good that you are studying psychology, when you come to the part about yourself, you may see yourself as the God of the OT you so desperately mock.

      hugs bro smile

      1. moonfroth profile image81
        moonfrothposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        @ brotheryochanan
        Damn! M'man!  Welcome to the Endless Debate.  You actually read and know history and you think and reason and you're stimulating.  And you actually respond directly to other posts!  Whoof!  I have no doubt that we disagree on all sorts of stuff--but that's what makes your posts so interesting.  Will respond in detail later.  Today's my birthday, so I'm going out with friends to drink altogether too much wine and be silly.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          congrats!
          where do the years go?

 
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