My aunt was born and raised in one faith. Very sincere in her belief and she lived the life of her faith.
She got married, moved away,had children. Lived happily.
Her husband was killed in an auto accident, then a few years later her son too was struck and killed in an auto accident.
She was past grieving to say the least. Although she remained mindfully intact.
A group of witnesses came by after reading of her husbands death and told her he wasnt dead just sleeping in another place and if she joined their belief she would see her hubby and son again.
She joined their faith, lived it to a tee. Watched the obit columns for local families who needed to be "comforted" filled out countless door to door journals etc.
She later became sick and the doctors said she didn't have much longer. She lived in Az we here in Tn could not make the trip before her end, and we called and talked to her. I was talking and she said to me, baby girl, I have to go, I lived the best life I knew, but Armageddon is on me now. She was scared to death. Yes, I understand she knew her time was brief but she was not afraid of dying, she had been told that at her end of time she would know if she had lived right or not, and if not, Jehovah would send Armageddon on her.
I have but one thing to say, the faith she followed before getting caught up in this mess, was one of love, one that promised saved by grace. I am confident if there is a Heaven, she is there, despite the fact that the faith that she last followed taught that only the elders of their hall would be the ones to enter. RUBBISH!!!!!!!!
I for years wandered how she got involved with them, then after loosing both parents it is easy to see. But,because of seeing her go through what she went through, it made me or my eyes open to what to expect from the local ???
And yes, they did knock, I accepted their well wishes, and left it at that.
My question is why do they tell people such things?
They do it because they honestly believe it is truth. I've watched several people get sucked in. They hit up people in grief and lonely senior citizens for the most part. I don't think they mean harm, they are completely oblivious to how insane their claims are. I believe they are truly programmed. It's a little unnerving.
The other thing to remember is that the JW beliefs are strictly controlled from the centre. Bible study is forbidden without the Watchtower to provide the interpretation. Members are forbidden from studying themselves or questioning the leadership on matters of doctrine. Everyone outside of the JWs are going to hell.
They have a social right to propogate whatever they sincerely believe to be true; it is on others to accept or reject them.
I don't know that you have the right to lead others into a cult that brainwashes its members. I'm sorry many organized religions feel that their message is so weak that the only way to get people to join is by falsely convincing them those that don't will be eternally punished, burnt in a trash heap or are simply infidels.
Cagsil was right. Truth and wisdom stand on their own merits. Threat of punishment shows me that anything associated with it is a lie.
well i don't know if you can lead others into your conclusion.
there is always punishment with even the best of intentions
call it what you will, repercussions, dues, cause and effect.
the punishMENT not punishING of God is obliteration - which is really what people expect anyway, is it not?
I don't seek to lead. I'm busy chipping away at my own log.
Really? Always? That just sounds so odd.
I don't expect to be obliterated. I can't imagine anyone that would. Are you expecting that for yourself, or others? I suppose, since you think there is punishment for good intentions it would follow that you would think that. I disagree, as usual.
I've learned that two snarling Great Danes will dissuade even the most ardent door-knockers! lol
Amazing what people do, say and believe. Sounds as unnerving as lawyers visiting emergency rooms.
Don't open the door is my policy. And a barking, black Lab/Chow mix does seem to deter those approaching the yard!
I'm afraid you are all far more diplomatic than I, I would've told them to shove it in no uncertain terms. I don't have any problem with religious groups who knock and say "Would you like to take a look at our literature" No problem there, just the ones that try to convert someone who is at their most vulnerable.
Thank you all for answering. It is heartbreaking that the "centre" would put their members through that, and I have talked to many of them, and they seem like very sincere people who love God and want to serve Him. Why do they not see what they are being taught to teach is more harmful than or as harmful as nothing?
I can not in good conscience turn them away from my door. I will tell them, ok i will listen to you for 30 minutes uninterrupted if you will do the same for me. They always say oh, but we only have five minutes or so........
This has bothered me for several years, and I hope it helps even one to realize the dangers.
If they want 30 minutes from you, in return to five of theirs, they are not genuine. I am of no religion and I'm an atheist, however, I also know that their are believers, who are sincere in their intentions, and would give you a lot more than 5 minutes. If you are a believer, which of course you are, your time will be better spent with religious groups who sincerely want to help you.
i am christian and they do listen, i gave him five minutes and he gave me twenty and then blessed me and walked on ... ... ... true story
he did listen to me, i saw he walking down a city street a short distance from my church from where i sat... i looked at him, and he walked over. I asked him if he was looking for my Church, but he said he was a Jahova's Witness, a formal looking white man with a shirt white button up and a tie. I asked him a question about a certain area of their belief system and how the ideology differs from an aspect mainstream belief (if you pay attention at church, all denominations gather it it seems, i forget which one i asked about but i don't think it mattered as those that do listen, do listen)
He gave the answer that it was the same... i then i spoke about a few points, not sure what though, maybe my church, scripture, or myself most likely... he was in agreement and i knew he was listening by his posture.
the problem with the statement as such as 'if i listen to you, will you listen to me' is that you enter the situation with the secular posture of being offended
If anyone approaches me (or knocks on my door) about religion I have no problem politely (but firmly) telling them that MY practice is not discussing my beliefs with anyone - at all. (It doesn't matter what I believe. I figure, they're practicing their religion; but I have no obligation to be a part of their practicing their religion by talking to me about it.)
I'm not rude to them, but whether I'm willing (or not) to hear what they have to say about a religion that's not mine is non-negotiable. People I've known who are too kind to say they just won't talk about faith/religion have ended up getting repeat visitors on a regular basis. Better to nip it in the bud.
Well, accept the fact that the world has many demented people in it with a lot of completely irrational faiths. And, they court other people claiming truth, which makes them even more dangerous.
It's a real shame that many people lack the understanding that truth is just like wisdom. It can be recognized when seen.
It wasn't meant to be comforting. And, if you don't like it too bad. It was the truth.
can truth be recognized when it is seen?
Obviously not. By your own admission you say there are lots of demented people who have completely irrational faiths and that people lack the understanding that truth is like wisdom - although the two are different by definition, sharing only a small amount of each other.
So just what the heck are you trying to say.
You must be joking. Wisdom is permeated by truth. It is the truth attained that allows the wise to dispassionately converse with those who think they have it. Truth may not bring wisdom, but wisdom is definitely born of truth.
And he is correct that truth is recognized when seen. Unfortunately few people truly seek it for more than a brief span because many things masquerade as truth. Some lies more thinly veiled than others.
Some lies, such as religion, are difficult for the mind to overcome because it is so easy to pick up a Bible and call oneself a theologian. It has been designed to preen the ego. That's a heady diversion.
Truth will out in the end, for anyone truly interested in obtaining it. Religion is little more than a sad testimonial of the stumbling blocks others have sought to place on the road to enlightenment of the individual. It is a pathetic grasp for power over the minds of others.
Freedom of conscience is the original bastion of freedom. It is the foundation spoken of in the gospels. It is the rock the doggedly religious have never built because they try desperately to cling to the mirage of an island that has been taught to them. The proverbial carrot on a stick.
Yes, it can be recognized when seen.
I don't expect you to understand.
Actually, by definition they are different. However, discerned wisdom IS truth. When wisdom is recognized, the first thing people say is that it's TRUTH. Because, they recognize the meaning/understanding and acknowledge it for what it is.
Again, I don't expect YOU to understand.
wisdom is in the usage
truth is in the meaning
but i don't expect YOU to understand
a person can have loads of truth but if wisdom is left out truth is made of non effect. A person can know a lot but still be a dumb ass in its application. To say one has wisdom, when all they have is a few truths, is really just a preening of the ego.
A person can have wisdom... the donkey is much burdened by the load it carries.. which is good - if applicable to the discussion.
There are some truths that are clearly not understood when heard.
Is all i was trying to say.
To say that wisdom and truth are equal is a bit off base and to say that a person who has some truths is wise is a sad testimonial for wisdom.
Doesn't matter, either way both are recognized. Which you've not negated, even in your semi-long winded comment below.
Then it's not truth they are speaking. Truth isn't limited to an individual's subjective perception. It's objective.
This only means that they haven't gain wisdom nor truth.
One doesn't say one has wisdom unless it's been verified by others. That means, they have truth.
You know you're digging the hole you're already standing in, right?
That would depend on whether that individual is paying close enough attention, which you're clearly not and the other would be ego. However, since I have the ability to see beyond myself, long enough to see truth, then all those who claim I am wise must not been mistaken.
Right, by digging the hole you were standing before this even started, deeper.
A person is wise when knowledge(including experience) is discerned, which reveals truth(without ego).
Its a shame that she was not part of a church, as is one of Gods principles. Had she a church that she felt planted into by God she would not have been such easy prey.
I am awed that some followers of God don't know, until its too late, if they have lived right. JW belief is like eating the food without checking the expiration date.
I wish her survivors well and healing.
I am conscious that some people are in an evolutionary dead end - and try to be kind, as I would to any other animal. Reasoning is not an ability that is strong in every strain of human being, I believe this would probably have been the eventual downfall of the Neanderthal humans.
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