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The Challenge

  1. EmVeeT profile image81
    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago

    This challenge is specifically meant to those who deny, mock, resist, live to defame or otherwise pretend to know THE LIVING G'D:

    I have been called to be a watchman on the wall, according to Ezekiel 33, a repairer of the breach, according to Isaiah 58, and to warn those who raise their voice against THE MOST HIGH G'D, according to Isaiah 57. The words that have been posted on Forums meant to do all the things stated in the first phrase, have been brought before G'D in prayer, and HE Has Heard. The insults, deprecating remarks directed at G'D shall not go unchallenged. This battle is THE L'RD's.

    To Those who will listen:

    Bow down before The Powerful Creator, laying down your transgressions before HIM. Repent of your evil doings, your slanderings, your slights. Ask forgiveness of HIM, in THE NAME of JESUS of Nazareth. HE Shall be Faithful to forgive you. In this way, you shall be redeemed of all your foul, aggressive and slanderous applications against HIM. For you have sinned against G'D and man. The time to repent has come.

    To Those who will not listen:

    In Mercy G'D Extends HIS Light and Truth to you. You are free to choose this day whom you shall serve. Set aside your idols of wood, hay, stubble and grass. Set aside your lofty imaginations, your precepts  and philosophies, the gods you proclaim are no gods, but who rule you with an iron fist. Lay them down. Bow before THE ALMIGHTY G'D! Repent and be healed. For the time has come to sound the alarm. Charges have been laid against you, by the very gods you have so diligently served. Renounce them. Repent and live. G'D Can be your Advocate or your Judge. You shall be condemned or redeemd by the words of your own mouth (or pen). Choose now. In order to do so, you will have to hold your thoughts captive. Bring them into submission. G'D HAS BEEN Petitioned to make Himself Known to you. Resist HIM and you will seal your eternity. Accept HIM and you shall enter in HIS REST, through JESUS, The Christ. Amen.

    This is not a threat. This is in response to those who have stated over and over, in various forms: if G'D EXISTS "HE SHOULD PROVE it".

    To those who call themselves followers of JESUS:

    Whatever words may be posted here, be aware, that you are, in no wise to misrepresent THE SOVEREIGN G'D. If you do, that will be on your head.

    G'D IS MERCIFUL. Be HIS Hands and Feet. Speak truth. Be loving. Do not react in resentment, bitterness, anger or any emotional outbursts that have the power to bring you down to a place outside G'D'S Good Grace. This battle is the L'RD's.

    Put on the Mantle of HIS Grace, the Armour of G'D, or whatever garment of representation HE Imparts to you, but do not respond if you are not prepared to do so with gentleness, compassion, goodness and truth. SEEK HIS Face and Will before you post anything, for HIS NAME'S SAKE, for HIS GLORY, HONOUR and EXALTATION.

    Above all, if you are motivated, pray. This is the greater application, in obedience to His Will, His Word, His Holy Spirit, through YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's a good thing that the words you posted here are not meant or implied in any way that you "pretend to know THE LIVING G'D"

      Challenge accepted.

      smile

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hello Troubled Man....

        I thank you for your speedy response, but I would like to say, please don't consider this a joke... what was posted is serious. Have you read it through entirely. A lot is being asked of you. Are you prepared to do what is being asked?

        I don't say this because I think you don't understand. I just want you to be clear and serious about the challenge. Remember, I am not the one challenging you. If you say you're 'in', you will be accepting G'D's challenge.

        Are you certain you want to accept? Are you clear on what you are accepting? Again, don't take this the wrong way. I am not belittling you or denigrating your intelligence. I know you are a grown man with the ability to think for yourself. I just want to be sure you are sure.

        Thanks and G'D BLESS you, Sir, in JESUS' NAME. Amen.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Of course, I accept. I'll kick his butt, if he has one. He is weak, feeble, cowardly and egotistic... should be a cake walk. smile

          1. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, my...

          2. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/4884761.jpg
            It's been 7 hours since his last post.  I wonder...

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Still waiting for the challenge to start, so far, not a peep.

              Maybe G'D's just doing a little stretching... smile

              1. EmVeeT profile image81
                EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Hi Troubled Man!

                So glad to hear from you. smile

                I'm just wondering: did you read the Scripture verses I posted? Or are you just waiting to see if G'D Is going to do all the work?

                I'm on the sidelines watching. So are a great many others, despite the lack of interaction here. G'D IS PATIENT, but HE Won't be forever...

                The challenge started the moment you responded. The ball is now in your court.

                MERCY and BLESSINGS to you in the meanwhile, in THE POWERFUL NAME of JESUS, my ADVOCATE, my WISDOM, my STRENGTH. Amen.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  What about them?



                  If G'D did anything at all, I'd be shocked. So far, He has done nothing. I await, tingling.



                  And, what exactly am I supposed to do? I've accepted your challenge and am waiting for it.



                  Please don't do that. Thanks. smile

                  1. EmVeeT profile image81
                    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Troubled Man, what exactly am I doing?

                    You say: If G'D did anything at all, I'd be shocked. So far, He has done nothing. I await, tingling.

                    That's right. You would be shocked. You will be shocked. When HE DOES you'll know it. I just pray you share with us all.

                    You said:

                    And, what exactly am I supposed to do? I've accepted your challenge and am waiting for it.

                    I suggested you read the Scripture verses I posted. You don't have to do so, of course. You can just wait, if you like. I am confident in G'D. I'm confident HE WILL Meet you where you are.

                    In the meantime, G'D BLESS you... with whatever you will need to meet HIS Challenge, through YESHUA HAMASCIACH, LION of Judah, PRINCE of PEACE. Amen.

                  2. brettt profile image60
                    bretttposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Troubled Man... read the book of Job. And be sure to read it to the end. There you will see your answer.

                    "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 2:9

              2. paradigmsearch profile image90
                paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Glad to see you are still with us. I guess He has decided to defer on a preemptive strike for the time being. Leastwise for now... big_smile

                1. EmVeeT profile image81
                  EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Dearest Paradigmsearch,

                  I'm not sure which side of the ocean you have planted yourself upon. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me? Only if you're up to it. smile No pressure... just curious. I can't make you out.

                  BLESSINGS in THE NAME of my BELOVED L'RD JESUS... MASTER of The Universe, MAKER of All Creation, REDEEMER, FRIEND.  Amen.

                  1. paradigmsearch profile image90
                    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    big_smile

                2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The clocks ticking, and soon we'll be using a calendar. smile

                  1. EmVeeT profile image81
                    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Truly... you shouldn't be so impatient. HE Will Respond. Use this time to prepare. smile

                    BLESSINGS to you, Troubled Man, through JESUS, HIS Son.

            2. TheMagician profile image89
              TheMagicianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I wish there was a LIKE button for this lol

          3. Dave Mathews profile image59
            Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            A Troubled Man: Why do you insist on attacking and degrading Almighty God, when you do not know Him? More importantly, why do you choose to deny His existance? What has God ever done to you to deserve your wrath and hatred? Why do you persist in challenging Almighty God's power by attacking those who believe in Him? Why do you continually attack and challenge the beliefs of those who love God and seek to serve Him? You have not even 1 Hub, you have zero, nada, zilch hubs and even less credibility, yet you persist in attacking others. You prove yourself to be a bully and nothing more, taking cheap shots at those who you will attacking their God, their beliefs, their faith, mocking them for what they have but you refuse.
            If there were any way that I could get you banned from the "Forum" and from Hubpages, I would. You are nothing but a sliver in the tip of my finger and the fingers of all believers soon to be cast out and forgotten.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I know Him by his deeds which are petty, selfish and egotistical, at least, according to the Bible.



              Because, he has not been shown to exist other than in the imaginations of His followers. Show me your God and I will gladly believe he exists.



              He murdered millions of innocent people, at least, according to the Bible.



              Those who believe evangelize the religion, hence whatever they do affects my life in negative ways.



              Hubs don't provide credibility and neither do beliefs in invisible friends.



              Yes Dave, I know you would love to see me gone forever. Of course, I take the high road and would never wish that upon you.

              Notice that I tend to be closer to the teachings of Jesus than you? lol

              1. Jo_Goldsmith11 profile image61
                Jo_Goldsmith11posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Troubled man,

                My Jesus wouldn't mock his brother. Please remove the stone in your eye before you try to remove the pebble in your brothers. Think about this if you will. You never explained why you feel the way you do? G'D didn't murder anyone. He can't. Evil destroys. It comes like a thief in the night. The feelings of whatever it is that makes you express annoyance, anger, sometimes hate and mostly disrespect. We who believe in the ONE and only Creator of every living thing still acknowledge you and read your work. We give you time to see that good feelings can be yours if you can take a little step forward.  If I am wrong, and your way is right. Then I have nothing to lose, I won't know. I will be dead. BUT !!  IF your wrong, and I am right then you will live forever and ever in suffering. Why would anyone want to be miserable, is beyond my human thinking. smile  Shalom

                1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                  Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  @Jo
                  We are all atheists, but some of us have taken it one God further.

                  Please think about that before you try and use hell as a premise of an argument.

                2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If you're wrong, you have wasted your life believing in false gods.



                  Here's the deal. There are many religions in the world and they can't all be right. One could be right but that's a stretch. If the right one is not the one you believe, then both of us will be suffering together forever. Why would you want to be miserable? smile

                  1. LookingForWalden profile image61
                    LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I always pose this question to fundamentalists.

                    What if someone is born on an island and never learns of Jesus?

                    Thats pretty messed up for him to go to hell if he doesn't even know why.

    2. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You're kidding right? roll

      1. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Where have you been? big_smile

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You sounds like a wife. tongue I've been around. tongue

          1. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You have your work cut out for you here. And you do know that you are doomed to fail, right? big_smile

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No work? I don't need to display too much effort to show the blatant ignorance is what it is? A choice action.
              Fail? How can I fail to prove that. Every post that would lead afterward would prove that this particular individual willfully and blatantly chooses ignorance. I mean, if you want to get technical? The OP has already proven it. wink

              1. paradigmsearch profile image90
                paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I have alerted the media. Proceed at will. big_smile

    3. kess profile image60
      kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I ask as many did before ...


      What is the challenge?

      1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
        Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I seem to be partaking, but I myself have no idea whatsoever either ;D

    4. amymarie_5 profile image86
      amymarie_5posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Oh good god, here we go again.  Seriously, I would love to comment on this but I have false idols of grass and hay that I have to pray to right now.  You know, being that I'm one of the heathens and all.   (eye roll)

    5. Don W profile image84
      Don Wposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You talk about watchtowers, and laying down transgressions, and aggressive and slanderous applications. Why? Who talks like that? Do you actually talk like that? I doubt you do. I suspect this language stems from the historical period that your Bible was translated in, and you've consciously or subconsciously  emulated it. This way of speaking may have been meaningful in the 18th century, but it isn't meaningful to people on a web forum in 2011.

      You say nothing of what it actually means to be a Christian in the 21st century. You say nothing of what Christianity even is. I have friends who are Christians. They talk about what being a Christian means in these times, how they struggle to reconcile Christian values with the pressures of modern life etc. What you've written just sounds like someone trying to sound wise and holy. Unfortunately it just comes across as bad impression of a Christian, a caricature. None of my Christian friends speak like this. They are not caricatures. They are real people and what they say is more meaningful because they say it in their own words.

      So is the challenge actually for you? Is the holy spirit holding up a mirror, so you can learn from what you see in the reflection? Is your challenge to adapt the way you communicate your faith? To see that you don't need to try to sound authoritative, or wise, or holy. That any authority or wisdom or holiness will stem from you being authentic and describing your  experience of being a Christian in a way that is meaningful for people in 2011. If so I wonder, is that a challenge you can accept?

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hey there Don W,

        Hate to spoil your premise, but I actually do talk that way. It may be outdated, but I don't have to follow rules. I like speaking the way I speak. It is particular to me.

        You say: (paraphrasing)

        You have friends who are Christians in the 21st Century, and they don't talk sound like me. It's true. There is a struggle to reconcile Christian values to the pressures of this modern world. This Forum wasn't addressing that topic. However, I agree wholeheartedly. Being a Believer in CHRIST JESUS in the 21st Century presents all sorts of obstacles, struggles, confusion and difficulties.

        You say, (sorry I'm just paraphrasing here) that what I write sounds like someone who wants to sound wise and holy... but it comes across as a caricature... phoney in other words. Well, I never said I was perfect. I never said I was wise. I wish I was holy. Unfortunately, my biggest problem is that I wear my heart out on my sleeve.

        I'm glad your friends are more real to you. They should be. They're not discussing issues of importance over cyberspace. I'm even more glad you have a good rapport with them.

        You ask: is the challenge actually for you? Is the holy spirit holding up a mirror, so you can learn from what you see in the reflection? Is your challenge to adapt the way you communicate your faith? To see that you don't need to try to sound authoritative, or wise, or holy. That any authority or wisdom or holiness will stem from you being authentic and describing your  experience of being a Christian in a way that is meaningful for people in 2011. If so I wonder, is that a challenge you can accept?

        I respond: Every day. THE HOLY SPIRIT is constantly purging me of my faults. It's too bad my style of writing seems so offensive to you. I am who I am. I won't change that unless G'D asks to me to do so. HE IS my GREATEST FRIEND and my most honest critic as well.

        I look in the mirror all the time. I don't always like what I see... when I don't I drop to my knees and admit it. I'm frail. I'm very weak at times, especially when it comes to my family... always letting them get away with things most people consider harmless, wondering if I should impose my true beliefs about how they should live, act, and speak (not that I want to pass on my language style to them, but I hate hearing them use vulgarities, or slang when a proper word would have so much more significance.

        Can I change the way I speak or write? I don't know. I think I might be too old. However, you are the first person to ever comment on my linguistic style. Perhaps it comes from having studied languages as a younger person. I believe words impact. I try to use the ones I consider most reflective of what I want to articulate. I always talk the way I write.

        You should hear me sing... smile

        G'D BLESS you, Don W... and MAY HE CONTINUE to BLESS your Christian friends. They should wonderful! In YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

        1. Don W profile image84
          Don Wposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That's okay. You can spoil my premise. I won't hold it against you. And I'm not offended by your language. I think you are passionate and eloquent in your writing. I'm not questioning your linguistic ability at all.

          My point is that there is a line between being passionate and expressive on the one hand, and alienating your audience on the other. As this is a site of writers I thought it appropriate to raise that point. I think your intended audience for this thread was non Christians who you feel have attacked your beliefs. But is it possible that the way you have delivered your message is creating even more of a barrier, not less? Is that your intention?

          You say you don't know if you could change that because you might be too old. What advice would you give someone who said "I can't change my ways and become a Christian because I'm too old?" Can you apply the same advice to yourself?

          Some people do criticise you because you believe something they disagree with. And misrepresent what you believe to further justify their criticism. And then try to create rational explanations for doing so. I understand why that must be offensive and annoying. But not all criticism is a persecution. You said yourself god is your greatest friend but also your most honest critic. So you must know that sometimes criticism is worth considering. If you choose to disregard the opinion of a heathen such as myself, at least consider the opinions of your brethren on this thread who have offered their own advice. It may help in your efforts. Relating to your audience could be handy for those who would be fishers of men.

          1. EmVeeT profile image81
            EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hi Don W,

            What I mean about 'being too old' actually reflects being set in my writer's ways. I spent some trying to figure out where my linguistic applications came from..

            You said: "I suspect this language stems from the historical period that your Bible was translated in, and you've consciously or subconsciously  emulated it."

            No... this isn't it.

            When I was a child, my parents had one very special possession in the house, two sets of Encyclopedias, The World Book Encyclopedia and Popular Science. Since my father was the only working parent, and we didn't have much, those books were like a gift from G'D Himself. During my spare time, I used to sit in front of the shelf holding both set of volumes and pick one out randomly, then read and read and read for hours. I had favorates of course, Egyptology for one. Archaeology was another. When I was six I told my sister I wanted to become an Archaeologist, she told me I couldn't... that my father would never let me travel. I believed her and began searching for something else I could do.

            When I was older, I began reading authors like Taylor Caldwell, C. S. Lewis, Tolkien, and others of like standard. I wanted to write like they did... so badly. My sister, being twelve years older than me, was an avid reader. Though she never finished High School, I never met anyone who had read as many books as she did. Ann Rand, Caldwell, Fitzgerald, you name him/her, she read him/her. Thousands of books in her lifetime (literally). She was a  book fiend... and held a high language standard, especially for me.

            Her speech in Italian was always perfect. Despite having come to Canada when she was twelve, she maintained an extensive vocabulary, and a very distinguished accent. I never had that... in Italian, but I worked at building a vocabulary. The next book I tried reading with regularity was the dictionary.

            Between those influences, yes, perhaps I'm stiffer than most, in my speech and writing. I will probably never be a C. S. or Tolkien. That is my dream and I will make a valiant attempt... whether I succeed or not remains to be seen.

            As for my faith, you hit the truth on the nail when you said I'm passionate about it, probably more passionate about G'D and HIS HOLY WORD than any other thing on the face of this earth. Perhaps the archaic script of The King James Version Holy Bible that I first owned as a new Believer, years ago, also made an impression. But, I'm certain the expressive style of many excellent writers are ingrained in my heart. I aspire. I may never reach, but I hope to... maybe saying "I'm too old," was a cop-out.

            I am not that old. However, some things are etched deeply in my soul. They yearn to be released. I can change. Seriously though, there's nothing in me that wants to... not now at least, not unless something compels me to do so.

            You said: Some people do criticise you because you believe something they disagree with. And misrepresent what you believe to further justify their criticism. And then try to create rational explanations for doing so. I understand why that must be offensive and annoying.

            Is this me, you're speaking about? Or others who are critisizing me?

            Criticism is welcome, especially if it is creative. That's the only way to grow. I appreciated your comments. I thought about them... that proves they were valued.

            You said: If you choose to disregard the opinion of a heathen such as myself, at least consider the opinions of your brethren on this thread who have offered their own advice. It may help in your efforts. Relating to your audience could be handy for those who would be fishers of men.

            I don't consider you a heathen. I hope I haven't in any way made you feel as though I do. Every writer wants to relate to their audience. Hopefully, I haven't alienated everyone. smile

            BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME of THE AUTHOR and FINISHER of my faith, of my character (a work in progress),and of my heart, YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

        2. Jo_Goldsmith11 profile image61
          Jo_Goldsmith11posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          EmVeeT,

          "Words are powerful, the written word is profound"- Jo Goldsmith.

          Shalom my sister. smile

    6. shahed ocean profile image59
      shahed oceanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      nice discussion

    7. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
      Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have a very important question for you about your belief. First I have to inform you about myself. I cannot believe in something without, or with evidence to the contrary.

      Since I cannot force myself to believe in something (the christian god) because the only evidence we have of such a being (the bible) is so inconsistent and contradictory, do I deserve to be sent to hell?

      Surely a god of such power would want people to use the brains he gave them?

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Jesus was a hippy,

        You said: I cannot believe in something without, or with evidence to the contrary.

        This is contradictory. Perhaps I'm unclear because I'm reading something into what you have just said; I don't want to do that, knowing that you might become upset with my reply. So I need you to clarify please.

        Next I want to go back to what you first said: I have a very important question for you about your belief.

        The question is about my belief... Therefore, I want to know, what is the point my telling you what I believe based on a Book you don't know enough about (and I state this based on your writing: (the bible) is so inconsistent and contradictory).

        What could I expect from you if I respond?

        You see, once you've studied The Bible, expounded, searched transliterations, not mere translations, based your studies on the culture of the day, the foundational precepts of faith the words were structured upon, and a multitude of other factors pertaining to Biblical Studies, you wouldn't call it 'inconsistent, or contradictory'.

        If you're going to be angry at the truth I will share, then I will leave you to determine the answer without a response.

        If, on the other hand, you want my input, I will make a valiant effort to reply to you.

        You said: Surely a god of such power would want people to use the brains he gave them?

        Due to past interaction with you, I know, as per your own admission that you don't believe in G'D, nor do you respect my belief in HIM. So I expect a reaction that is intended to goad me...

        Honestly, I don't want to give you that opportunity. I think you're smart. I think you're testing me. I think you believe yourself smarter than me... and perhaps you are... G'D BLESS you if this is true. I'm happy for you since you're still so young and have so much ahead of you.

        So, what I'm going to do here is reply casually to this question: Surely a god of such power would want people to use the brains he gave them?

        You can take what you want from it. Prove me wrong by responding with the brilliance I believe you possess... not wit meant to belittle... and perhaps I will address the other portions of your commentary.

        The answer is "yes, G'D WANTS you to use the brains HE Gave you. If you trust your brains alone though, without the benefit of HIS Help, you will be missing so much. What you end up with, in that case, is what you've chosen to end up with... a life/world/existence without G'D. If G'D is not in your life, HE WILL Not be in your afterlife either. This should make logical sense to you, outside of 'inconsistencies, contradictions, evidence and/or the lack thereof'.

        I'm not trying to instigate you here. I just learn from my mistakes, that's all.

        BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME I count MAJESTIC, SOVEREIGN and TRUE, YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

    8. Jo_Goldsmith11 profile image61
      Jo_Goldsmith11posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wow! Just beautiful! I truly with all my heart love your challenge! YESHUA HAMASCIACH? I hope you will please tell me where I may look up the second part of YESHUA name. I believe I have a calling too. I am living, breathing proof that there is a wonderful and forgiveing G'D. I praise him always. Wondering why the G'D instead of writing it completly out. Is it sinful to write the complete three letters?  Anyway, I thank you for posting this. A hard day at work, and this really helped to get me back centered! Thanks you! Shalom  smile

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Jo_Goldsmith,

        I appreciate your words of encouragement.

        As for your questions. As you know YESHUA is HIS Hebrew Name. (The short form at least.) The word HaMasciach (which I tend to write all in capitals) means Messiah.

        G'D/L'RD...

        I write HIS Name this way, not because it is a sin to do otherwise, but during a Bachelor Degree Program in Messianic Bible Studies that I took several years ago, I became so inspired by HIS AWESOME NATURE, CHARACTER, WISDOM, POWER and GRACE, that I couldn't just write out HIS Title fully anymore. HE, Knowing All things, Knows my heart and the reason I do this. The act has become habitual, and I cannot seem to write HIS Name any other way without feeling as though I've disrespected HIM.

        ... No one else needs to feel the need to do as I do. I don't impinge my practice on anyone else... I guess you could liken my doing so to having a more intimate name to call a best friend or someone you hold in high esteem and with whom you have a special relationship.

        smile

        BLESSINGS to you in THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES! YESHUA our SHEPHERD, our RIGHTEOUSNESS, our MENTOR and FRIEND! Amen... and Shalom!

        smile

    9. pennyofheaven profile image80
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Done. So whats the next challenge?

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Penny of heaven,

        You say: Done. So whats the next challenge?

        This challenge is one that follows us all the days of our lives. The decision to follow G'D and not bow down to idols is one that imposes a curfew on the flesh.

        You see,, as humans, we will constantly be tempted to bow down to idols. Idolatry is one of the intrinsic faults of human nature. We are always looking for something to latch onto, by virtue of our love for it, or our desire to possess it, or our need to be noticed by it, or feel bound to it...

        That is why celebrity status is what it is in our society today
        . Those who seek to control the mind of men (especially in North America and Westernized Countries) provide the populace with a standard by which they wish they could live. This successfully causes the masses to be motivated toward working harder, having more, wanting more, not paying attention to the secular disturbances that are working to take our freedoms away from us.

        Dearest Penny of heaven... you seem really young to me. I may be wrong, but if the greater part of your life is still ahead of you, then you have so very much to learn... as we all have...

        Let this challenge be one that propels you to think about your future, whom it is you wish to worship/follow. and how to keep your focus true to that decision.

        In reality, when you take The Challenge, that is not the end. The Challenge is the beginning of so much more.

        BLESSINGS to you Beloved. MAY G'D MEET you where you stand spiritually. MAY HE BRING you to KNOW HIM, HELP you to choose HIM, and DRAW you into THE PROTECTIVE EMBRACE of HIS LOVE, GRACE and GOODNESS, through YESHUA HAMASCIACH, our MOST FAITHFUL FRIEND, our MOST PRECIOUS KING! Amen.

        1. LookingForWalden profile image61
          LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Is writing god a sin in the bible?
          Or do you do it for personal reasons?

          1. EmVeeT profile image81
            EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hi Looking for Walden...

            You ask: Is writing god a sin in the bible?

            I answer, 'no'. Writing G'D's Name is not a sin. This is a habit I acquired while I was taking a Messianic Bible Bachelor's Degree. You see, I was already so very in love with the WONDROUS SAVIOUR Who Died for me, but when I began learning about HIM from a Judaic viewpoint, well the depth of my love grew and my awe for HIS PERFECTION, HIS PURITY, HIS WISDOM, COMPASSION for humanity and EXTENSIVE GRACE grew exponentially as well.

            I began writing the titles G'D and L'RD this way as a result, out of reverence for HIM, not compulsory obligation.

            G'D Does Not Impose HIMSELF on us. We are living in a Dispensation called 'Grace'. This means, all HIS Expressions toward us are expressions of Infinite Mercy, Goodness and yes, Grace.

            This is not something that should be trampled on though; and those who choose to mock, defame or deny HIS Name, Existence and Sovereignty will be held accountable, That account will not be something that happens, as it sometimes did in The Old Testament, where entire families were judged as a result of the known, sometimes hidden, but always conscientiously applied sins of the heart, as known only to the ONE WHO EXAMINES the heart of men and  Alone can draw out the significance and intention.

            I always explain more than I need to... Sorry about that. I can't help myself... there is a part of me that rejoices with every opportunity to share a measure of HIS TRUTH, no matter how small...

            But, the answer to your question, is this is a personal application. No one else ever needs to do the same.

            BLESSINGS to you, IN THE BELOVED NAME of my SAVIOUR, YESHUA, THE Jewish Messiah (even if most of them do not desire to acknowledge  the fact!). Amen.

            smile

            1. LookingForWalden profile image61
              LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks for taking the time to answer.

        2. pennyofheaven profile image80
          pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok so no other challenge. Thanks

        3. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, but that isn't a challenge, that is merely your faith based belief you are asking us to accept.



          Considering the dishonesty you have shown us here, a condescending attitude does not help your case, either.

  2. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    Whats the challenge? Hast thou setteth thine own self up as GOD's point person? Telleth me this oh great and powerful, art thou then a priest in the order of Melchisedek? If so, then what exactly does that mean?

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I was wondering the same thing. Sometimes I wonder if the ones who insist on speaking for God realize they eviscerate their idea of one with these types of threads.

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Emile R,

        You seem to be sincere to me. I appreciate your comments.

        It's true, there may be a sense that speaking for G'D has the power to 'eviscerate the idea of one'. Not my idea of G'D though. i know WHO HE IS. That may be something many here debate, but I know what I know. There is no doubt in my mind that HE Exists and that HE IS A BLESSING and SOURCE of WISDOM and STRENGTH to those who TRUST in HIM.

        The thread is risky. I admit. In fact, I was slow to post it, but again, I prayed about my actions before I stepped forward. I do so in faith believing G'D is WHO I believe HE IS.

        The result of this thread will be as much a surprise to me as it is to any and all who visit here. Although, I am certain that for me, the outcome will be one to celebrate. I doubt everyone will feel that way. (And I don't mean that as a threat or implied threat.)

        In any case, thanks for visiting the thread. I checked out your Hub Page and you seem a very interesting, very pratical woman, one who doesn't fall for anything, but searches for the most available in life.

        MAY G'D BLESS all your endeavors, through my SAVIOUR and FRIEND, JESUS of Nazareth. Amen.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You claim this thread to be risky. There is no risk. You have put yourself on a pedestal, as have several others who defend this thread. Who are you, or anyone, to lay out a challenge and claim God will act?

          I have run across statements where atheists are referred to as God botherers. Someone needs to challenge the religious to prove that the title doesn't fit them instead.

          1. EmVeeT profile image81
            EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hi Emile,

            You said, "You have put yourself on a pedestal, as have several others who defend this thread.

            Actually, I've put my G'D on a pedestal. I'm nothing. I'm no one. I'm just me. Plain and simple. I have no power. I have no supernatural abilities. I've never claimed to have. I don't consider this thread a risk for any other reason than the one that holds me to keep my responses in league with what G'D'S WORD and WILL inspire in me. You will not understand this, because you don't have a relationship with G'D.

            You said, "Who are you, or anyone, to lay out a challenge and claim G'D will act?"

            I plainly state my case: I am a watchman on the wall. Beyond this, I am a child of G'D, a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven; and in THE NAME of JESUS, I have authority to present this challenge.

            You don't have to agree that I have such a privilege. Again, you don't know G'D, so you can disagree, but your disagreement has no basis, other than your own judgment. I am a Messianic Believer in YESHUA HAMASCIACH. I am not ashamed of the gospel. I'm not ashamed of my G'D. I believe HE HAS the POWER to Defend HIS HOLY NAME. If, how and when HE Chooses to do so, are aspects I leave to HIM.

            You said: "I have run across statements where atheists are referred to as G'D botherers. Someone needs to challenge the religious to prove that the title doesn't fit them instead.

            You may not believe this Emile, but from the very first day I came to Hub Pages, my faith, my G'D, my beliefs and my heart have been brutally attacked, by so many diverse individuals.

            I didn't call them G'D botherers. I didn't call them anything. In fact, I call nobody anything here. However, those who read this challenge will place themselves in their own category. There are three as I see it. Individuals who openly and continuously consider it their right to bash G'D and anyone who believes in HIM, those who have done so, but only because they don't have a personal relationship with G'D  and those who believe in HIM, know HIM in spirit and in truth, and have made an effort to defend HIM in whatever manifestation they have at their disposal.

            This is a Forum. Anyone who feels insulted is free to choose not to visit. That is what I was told. I extend the same invitation to those who are insulted by this challenge, not because I don't welcome the views of others, but because I understand the sentiment and significance of deep irritation.

            When it comes down to it, the only thing I truly desire is for those who have somehow missed, rejected, or resisted HIS GRACE would think about doing so. I have no way of knowing what G'D WILL Do. However, I do know HE Answers prayer. HE Answers mine.

            My petition was not one of violence, but a petition requesting inspiration, a proof of HS Existence (of whatever sort HE Deems Right) though HE DOESN'T need to prove anything to anyone... and Scripture regards those who require proof are an adulterous generation.

            Perhaps you find this 'religious'. I don't. I don't believe in religion. I believe in FAITH in THE LIVING G'D. I don't follow the precepts of men. I read Scripture though, as often as possible. I study it. I pray through my questions. I seek answers. I will not stop asking. That's how I'm made.

            I'm sorry if I offend you. You don't offend me. Know that I consider your comments valuable. Thanks.

            G'D BLESS you, in THE NAME of HIS SACRIFICIAL LAMB. Amen.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You said However, those who read this challenge will place themselves in their own category. There are three as I see it. Individuals who openly and continuously consider it their right to bash G'D and anyone who believes in HIM, those who have done so, but only because they don't have a personal relationship with G'D and those who believe in HIM, know HIM in spirit and in truth, and have made an effort to defend HIM in whatever manifestation they have at their disposal.

              You have thrown the gauntlet of your god down. That is not the action of an observer.

              I would ask you to consider the fact that  those you label bashers are not bashing the Holy Spirit. They bash your interpretation. If there is a God, he needs no defense, no champions and no evangelists. If he is, indeed, God. Whatever His will, will be done. Without your, or anyone else's input. I think reality proves that those who think otherwise are wrong and simply ego driven.

              1. autumn18 profile image68
                autumn18posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                How perfectly stated Emile. Thank you for this post because it says something that I've been wanting to say. Why is it that non believers or anyone that doesn't believe in the same brand of religion are considered to be bashing and denying and disrespecting etc.?

                1. EmVeeT profile image81
                  EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Dearestn Autumn18,

                  The comment on bashing wasn't directed at those who don't. You are free to believe as you desire to believe. No one was placing you in the category along with the bashers... I was simply stating that there are those who do belong to one of those categories.

                  However, I was generalizing. I shouldn't have done so. There are obviously other categories, categories that haven't been mentioned.

                  Don't consider you've been called disrespectful.

                  BLESSINGS to you, in JESUS' PRECIOUS NAME. Amen.

              2. EmVeeT profile image81
                EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Hi Emile,
                You said, "You have thrown the gauntlet of your god down. That is not the action of an observer."

                You're right. Here I have thrown the gauntlet down. However, I never did so on the other Forum Topics I visited since I first came to Hub Pages. I was an observer to begin with, but I decided to change my stance after being assaulted with caustic and denigrating verbiage directed at my faith and my G'D.

                You said,  "...those you label bashers are not bashing the Holy Spirit...."

                I never accused anyone of bashing the Holy Spirit, not anywhere on any post.

                You said, "They bash your interpretation."

                Do they clearly comprehend my interpretation?  My interpretation took over thirty years to establish. No one can assume to understand my interpretation, unless they've read The Bible through and through and through and through, asked THE HOLY SPIRIT for HIS Guidance in study, exposition, analysis and rumination, lived and spiritually died my faith. Unless they have, then they are interpreting falsely.

                You said: "If there is a God, he needs no defense, no champions and no evangelists. If he is, indeed, God. Whatever His will, will be done. Without your, or anyone else's input."

                Actually, in this point you're wrong. This is the great commission. You would have to believe in JESUS, in The Bible and in the Word of G'D contained in those pages, in order to consider this true. So, I won't go into details.

                You said, "I think reality proves that those who think otherwise are wrong and simply ego driven."

                If you knew me personally, you wouldn't consider me ego driven. I am driven, yes, but only because I am very passionate about the aspects of life I adhere to. I apply myself fully. I am all or nothing. Perhaps a flaw. Perhaps a virtue. I don't know.

                So many here have decided that I placed The Challenge here in order to vaunt myself, but that isn't true. Perception is what it is though. I can't change what people think about me... whether they consider me egotistical, ignorant and more... I don't care what is thought about me.

                This entire presentation is not about me. That's not what others have chosen to believe, but that is reality. This is about G'D.

                When you said, "If there is a God, he needs no defense, no champions and no evangelists. If he is, indeed, God. Whatever His will, will be done."

                Therein lies the beauty of HIS Character. You're so right. HE Doesn't Need me or anyone else to stand up for HIM. HIS WILL can be done without any help; however, HE INVITES us, those of us who hear the calling, to participate in the defense of HIS Kingdom, HIS Sovereignty, HIS Authority, HIS Position. Why? That's what members of a family do... they stand together, for one another, with one another. HE IS Always there for ne.

                I cannot do any less.

                Emile, I expect a woman who owned a Construction Company to be strong minded and very determined. I don't consider you egotistical because you placed yourself in a man's world (so to speak). I consider you confident, intelligent, capable of making decisions that will affect others, standing up for what you believe. So your comments to me are taken as such.

                G'D BLESS you in all your endeavors. I hope you will have a chance to KNOW G'D as I know HIM during the course of your life. If you ever do, you'll realize HE'S MORE AMAZING than words can describe, HE Is WORTHY of my defense. I wouldn't do anything less for any person I love, and (have for) some I don't even love, but especially one who laid down HIS Life for me.

                G'D BLESS you, through JESUS, my BEST FRIEND. Amen.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You appear to be a nice person, albeit sorely misguided. And I admit, that is just my opinion.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              That's pretty much the same way holy wars got started, folks too far gone into their faith who have left reality well behind them believing they are authorities in the name of Jesus.



              History and the wars and atrocities Christianity committed in the name of Jesus has provided us with a basis for disagreement.



              That shows just how little you know of others needs and wants and just how much you could care less of that.

              1. EmVeeT profile image81
                EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Troubled Man,

                There are more politics involved in 'holy wars' than 'folks too far gone into their faith who have left reality well behind them[/b]..."

                I'm glad you said that... we're talking about two different people groups here... people who have left reality behind... and those who have not, but have embraced G'D as their SAVIOUR, CREATOR and KING.

                Unfortunately, you're right... a great many atrocities and wars were committed in the name of Christianity... using "the name of Jesus". This doesn't make HIM the reason. This just makes HIM the scapegoat.

                You say, "That shows just how little you know of others needs and wants and just how much you could care less of that."

                I do care about others. In life, I never speak about my faith unless the conversation tilts that way, unless guided by THE HOLY SPIRIT to do so...when HE Guides me into that direction, my conversational input is always highly appreciated... here... it's one of the reasons I haven't made any disparaging remarks against anyone, despite being the recipient of several already. Besides, Sir, having spent the greater part of my life investigating this faith I now defend, I have more right to call myself an "authority in THE NAME of JESUS" than those who mock HIM, defame HIM, scorn HIS NAME, HIS Existance, HIS SACRIFICE and more.

                I understand that you will not agree. This is your privilege.

                I continue to pray G'D BLESSES you, Troubled Man, in THE NAME I hold Sacred, YESHUA HAMASCIACH, THE PROMISED MESSIAH! Amen.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL! Yes, that's why they're called "Holy" wars and not "Political" wars.



                  Perhaps, but it certainly shows just how dangerous the followers are who obsess about the religion. Anyone you know?



                  That doesn't show at all in your posts.



                  And, much like the past, you will start conflicts and holy wars with your self-professed authority and accomplish little else.

                  1. EmVeeT profile image81
                    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Troubled Man,

                    I will never start conflicts or holy wars. I will always, however, defend my position. I have no authority. I never claimed to have any; yet, I am certain that what I have to say about G'D has more significance to those who are listening, than a person who hasn't experienced HIS LOVE and GOODNESS. When I share what I believe with those who ask, much is accomplished.

                    I sincerely doubt much is being accomplished here, but then, that's not my problem.  It's yours.

                    BLESSINGS to you, once again, in THE NAME of THE GENEROUS G'D I serve. Amen.

    2. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Druid Dude,

      You say: What's the challenge? It's posted plainly.

      You say: Hast thou setteth thine own self up as GOD's point person?

      A watchman on the wall. That's all.

      You ask: If so, then what exactly does that mean?

      Simple. I've read some really horrendous statements relating to G'D. I found them insulting and deprecating. I didn't bother to say so, because the individuals who posted them are hardened. So, I prayed about it. 

      What it means essentially, is I don't care what anyone here thinks of me. I believe what I believe. G'D IS more real to me than the words you are reading right now. I don't have anything to prove. I am confident though, that HE HEARD my prayers, and that this 'challenge' is an offer of Grace.

      That's nothing new either. Grace is something G'D Has been offering since the beginning of time.

      I'm guessing by your name you're into something other than G'D. I consider the old English style of writing you've used is meant to embarass me, or at least make me feel ignorant. I may be wrong, if so, I'm sorry for guessing wrong. If I'm right, I'm not embarassed.

      I believe what I believe. Nothing will change that.

      Thanks so very much for your comments. Your having joined the discussion is appreciated.

      BLESSINGS to you in the NAME ABOVE every name! YESHUA, SON of RIGHTEOUSNESS. Amen.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lol

  3. Rhonda Elisha profile image61
    Rhonda Elishaposted 5 years ago

    To all those speaking in rebellion. Let your tongue be still! Please be still! The man appointed by God to speak his words, they are the words from the Holy Spirit. Words done against the Lord can be forgiven but words against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven for the words are those directed toward the Father. The Holy Spirit is given the authority to punish without restraint. Yes, you believe and feel "what can God do to me", for I'm already in hell upon the earth. No, this is not hell, this is not even a taste of the punishment that consumes man whom dare to come against God. Many are already sentenced to their eternal doom; and multitudes are gathered daily. Please be still! A dead man who dies in his sins cannot repent! Eternally is a long time for the gnashing of teeth and regrets. And hell is not just fire! God in his wrath can perform things beyond your comprehension. Be Still! Satan and the evil ruling spirits do not care anything about you. They are manipulating your tongue to do what they themselves won't do. They tremble at the thought and presence of God. Don't allow them to reveal you as weak! That is their agenda. The man whom despises another is afraid and weak. Remember, a panic man drowns! Those whom can understand, Be still!

    1. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Welcome Rhonda Elisha.

      Thanks so very much for your sharing your heart. I've been to your Hub Page and see that you are a Messianic Jew. I am also Messianic. Welcome again.

      I would like to request your prayers... not so much the fire and brimstone that you have already shared. You and I know what we know. But this challenge is not about punishment... at least that is not what HE Has placed in my heart... it's about G'D'S REPUTATION and PRECIOUS NAME!

      I was truly disappointed to read some of the disparaging comments directed at HIM. So, I asked HIM about it. I am TRUSTING HIM to BESTOW UNMERITED COMPASSION, yes, HIS MATCHLESS GRACE upon those who take the challenge, not snuff them out. HE IS MERCIFUL... so MERCIFUL and I am confident, that HE WILL grant the petition, that HE Give the mockers and scorners an undenyable opportunity to INVITE HIM into their lives.

      Of course, many will resist and reject this invitation, but that is between HIM and them. As we know, if HE CANNOT REACH through the stoney barriers baracading hardened hearts, we will surely never be able to do so.

      So, Rhonda, thank you for your admonitions. I understand your heartfelt hurt at reading some words that are meant to scoff HIM.

      I believe HE IS MORE THAN ABLE to DEFEND HIS HOLY NAME.

      As for us, let us join together in prayer, asking HIM to MAKE HIMSELF REAL to those who present themselves in acceptance of this challenge.

      The Challenge is HIS not mine. However, I yearn for HIS Name to be Revered even as you do... so I've made myself available to HIM, as a vessel at HIS Disposal. And in faith believing, I TRUST HE WILL HONOUR HIS MAJESTIC NAME!

      BLESSINGS to you, in THE MIGHTY, MARVELOUS and MOST HIGH NAME of ADONAI! our KING! Amen.

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image86
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I thought the Lord, Holy Spirit and the Father were all the same person? How can one talk against the Lord and be fine, but not the Holy Spirit if they are one in the same?

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Dearest Double Scorpion, (May I call you DS?)

        Your name suggests a sting may, at any moment, spring forth from you... smile

        You say, "I thought the Lord, Holy Spirit and the Father were all the same person?

        This is true. G'D IS FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT... or L'RD, FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT... but consider them identifyable using this analogy: body, soul, spirit...

        G'D THE FATHER REIGNS Supreme. JESUS, THE SON, is now and forever will be identified by HIS INCARNATE MANIFESTATION, THE HOLY SPIRIT is that part of HIM that is just that... SPIRIT. One and the same... different manifestations.

        You said: How can one talk against the Lord and be fine, but not the Holy Spirit if they are one in the same?

        Scripture warns against speaking ill of THE HOLY SPIRIT. This is the unpardonable sin. There are also considerations that only G'D Can Judge when a mockery of HIM is pronounced... G'D KNOWS the heart of man; therefore, some have actually blasphemed THE HOLY SPIRIT by their words... G'D ALONE Will ultimately decide if the act perpetrated unwittingly is judged by the same standard so as to be unpardonable. Just to let you know...

        G'D BLESS you, DS. Thanks for your questions.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So what happens if I spit and vomit on the Holy Spirit, and then kick him in his butt, if he has one? smile

          1. EmVeeT profile image81
            EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Dearest Troubled Man,

            I'm so sorry for you. You've been warned, but you continue desiring to be vulgar and base. You don't have any class. However, I pray G'D IS MERCIFUL to you.

            The fact that you continue to want to be so obtuse, well, that's on you. You're going to face HIM. When you do... well... right now, I'm just really, really sorry for you.

            MAY G'D HAVE MERCY on you, for you either don't know what you're doing, or you do and well... MAY HE HAVE MERCY on you, through CHRIST JESUS, to whom you will have to repent... if not, then bow down before. Amen.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So, can we assume there is no challenge and you're just fooling us?



              I thought you were going to present me some sort of a challenge with HIM, but all you're doing is preaching to everyone.



              lol Empty threats. So much for your challenge. Nothing but a waste of time on irrational fantasies and obsessions. lol

              1. EmVeeT profile image81
                EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Troubled Man,

                I don't know what to think about you. I told you from the beginning I wasn't threatening you.

                And, nothing to do with G'D is a waste of my time. Your time? Well, that's another matter. However, this challenge is far from over.

                You're not insulting me with all your snide remarks. I can't be made to look more stupid than I already look, to any and all who want to see me that way.

                IF G'D WERE to decide to let you continue talking about HIM as you do... to continue insulting HIS HOLY NAME, there is nothing I can do about it.

                That would not change WHO HE IS, or what I believe about HIM. I am human. I am prone to error.

                G'D IS in charge here. I stated from the beginning... I am not promoting myself here. I'm not trying to make myself look holier than you, more perfect, wonderful, intelligent or anything else you can come up with. I'm simply stating, plainly, clearly, and with as much zeal as I consider fair to you and to me, that the G'D you have decided to mock and offend is my G'D. HE IS REAL.

                You will know it, sooner or later. I consider sooner is on the way; however, HE KNOWS BEST.

                I have no problem waiting this out. You do though. You want HIM to respond when you say so... I presented a challenge.

                Tell me, did you do what was asked? Or did you simply come to the board excited about the opportunity to mock me along with mocking my G'D?

                See, I don't care what you say about me... You can continue. You can say whatever you like, about me. It's not my reputation that I am wanting to preserve here.

                I am standing up for THE G'D of ALL CREATION. HE IS.

                You can continue to say, HE IS not, but... the end of this challenge doesn't necessarily result here, or now.

                G'D IS G'D.

                Me... I'm simply female. I never claimed to be anything more.

                You however, well... you are G'D'S Issue, not mine. I am absolutely sorry for you. I'm sorry you consider my challenge a threat... and then an empty one at that.

                I wonder why you call yourself "Troubled"? Because, I can honestly say, even if nothing happens here, I am not troubled, in the least.

                The fact that you think this "nothing but a waste of time..." doesn't surprise me. I think, without knowing you any better... you are a shallow individual... not because you don't believe as I believe, but because you resolve your frustration relating to my beliefs by stating nothing but base comments.

                In my humble opinion, Troubled Man, you are more likely to start a holy war than I would ever be... no wait... let me restate that... you would gladly feed me to the lions, while I would never do that to you.

                G'D BLESS you none-the-less... in JESUS' MIGHTY, PRECIOUS and MOST BELOVED NAME! Amen.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  smile



                  There's nothing He can do about it, either. 



                  But, you'll never actually admit to the errors.



                  No, you are in charge of yourself, what you do and what you say. I can mock your G'D as much as I want and nothing will happen because your G'D is just an imaginary friend, like a seven foot rabbit in a beard.



                  I see no challenge, just empty words based on faith. And, since you've yet to present a challenge of any kind, you're just wasting everyone's time with preaching.



                  What did you ask? To read some verses? Done. Now what?



                  What reputation?



                  Yes, you are creating conflict where none was before.



                  Ii see nothing more than empty threats. I see no challenge.



                  Funny, I did not insult you but you feel the urge to insult me. So much for your empty words about not judging others.



                  You sure do have an overactive and paranoid imagination. lol

  4. AngelTrader profile image61
    AngelTraderposted 5 years ago

    Seriously Rhonda do you honestly believe what you've written? Do you read it through. I'm all for free speech and the beautiful diversity of opinion but for goodness sake get a grip!

    What's with all the punishment without restraint nonsense? Why does everything have to involve 'gnashing of teeth'. Why does your God feel the need to punish and hurt? Your experience of reality and the world around you is so different to mine and I feel no need to continually bow down to a vengeful and spiteful God. The universe I feel, see and hear is one of unconditional love, not violence.

    I'm so aware of the love that surrounds us all having experienced it first hand for many years, but then I guess you would say I have been tricked by Satan and evil entities. Raise your awareness, raise your own vibration away from fear and ego and maybe you too can feel the love all around.

    1. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hello Angel Trader,

      Your comments are being directed toward someone who is more than likely heart stricken by some of the non-chalant remarks that have been posted here already. Perhaps, your faith in G'D, or appreciation and approval of someone who reacts with such gravity is less.

      You're right. Love surrounds us. Unfortunately, so does hate. If you've experienced love first hand for many years, without the infringement of hatred, then you are most certainly one of the blessed few.

      I can't answer for Rhonda, except to say, that I've felt like her after reading some of the caustic remarks directed at G'D, but I refrained from responding as fervently as she did. Perhaps I acted cowardly. Perhaps I used tact. I'm unsure what my motivation was, but I do know this: fear of expressing myself as freely as she just did was an undercurrent in my decision.

      Not everyone feels the need to show restraint. In my case, G'D IS Teaching me something here. So, I am being very cautious, answering thread posts as HE Leads.

      So far, I pray I am HONOURING HIS Will and not following my own. HE IS the ONE I care to represent here. I pray to do so as HE DESIRES, no matter what may follow in the way of responses.

      Of course, I'm only human... so I may fail. HE KNOWS me. So what I do, or fail to do will not enlighten anyone but me. I'm TRUSTING HE IS TRUSTING me to do what HE Has prepared me to do.

      You may think me crazy. That's your privilege. My awareness is raised. I assure you. I do not live under fear or ego. In fact, fear and ego would have kept me from posting this challenge.

      My decision to move ahead was one I haven't taken lightly... not even now.
      I pray this entire post ends up a BLESSING to many... including you.

      G'D BLESS you. MAY HIS Angels Guard your heart and mind. MAY HIS SON, JESUS POUR HIS ABUNDANT GRACE into your life. Amen.

      1. AngelTrader profile image61
        AngelTraderposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you for your reply. Firstly I'd like to state I do not think you are crazy and respect your beliefs. The very nature of a public forum lends itself to extreme views of all sorts be they denigrators or defenders of whatever religious belief they hold and to a degree the worst is brought out by both sides.

        My response was borne out of exasperation at the continued veiled threats I read on HubPages written by well intentioned but fear spreading fundamentalists. And it was Rhonda's reply that I was addressing and I will reply directly to their reply shortly.

        Does your vision of God love unconditionally or do you have to earn it? I send out unconditional love to all I come across but is that true of your God. I ask for nothing in return yet it seems your God demands tribute and unswerving obedience or else eternal damnation awaits. Why is this? Did we ask to be incarnated on this Earth in order to prove how worthy we are of God's love or are we here to experience a physical experience in order for our soul's to evolve. Are we here to experience negative ego driven emotions? Personally I never experience feelings of hatred towards anyone or anything but I see plenty of hatred around.

        I am fully aware of where we come from and what our true natures are and throughout all my experiences all I have ever felt is safe, secure and loved. We do not visit this plane of reality just the once but return and incarnate again and again. We come from a place of pure love where ego and all the negative emotions that state creates doesn't exist. There is no hell, no damnation, no eternal gnashing of teeth but bliss and love. Through a raising of consciousness that state of bliss could easily manifest here on Earth but there are too many negative influences on humanity at present preventing that occurring.

        Each and everyone of us is surrounded by love and angels by our side but many are stuck in a low vibration induced by fear and never feel that love. Spreading fear and damnation, like Rhonda did, does nothing to raise consciousness or love.

  5. Rhonda Elisha profile image61
    Rhonda Elishaposted 5 years ago

    Regarding your reply: There are many people of today that hold skepticism against one having a true spirit of God. For, they have been for such a long time fostered by men of no honor to intertwine the desires of the world and that of God. Men whom have portrayed God as just another man. Men whom have dishonored God through their acts of self-gain and recognition. This is why many men hold this skepticism against another whom has been appointed by God. I was formally one myself, despising and mistrusting anyone whom approached me in the manner in which I now stand. Yes, of my former self the world gave me clothing to wear (the badges of treachery, deciet and betrayal) and money flowed, I pretended to be happy, but I was an angry untrustworthy man, though, in the darkness, afraid and shattered of my own doom. I personally used my God given gifts to foster great harm against anyone whom angered me. But I praise God for he snathed me from the fire, and allowed me life. I did not die in my sins. What was done in evil I now do for good. God is God and worthy of all praise, he is not a vengeful God. It is man who is treacherous against him and then being as a child becomes resentful and bitter when he administers punishment. It is man whom brings problems against himself  and then blames God. What I now say is not to convince you nor to establish proof against myself, but, as allowed by the Lord, I speak: There are things I have seen beyond anything you can imagine. There are things I know beyond things you can imagine. I care whether you believe or not! And I know, not only through scripture the Holy Spirit  has the authority to punish without restraint of any blasphemy against God; I have seen it! And I will say this, I know personally how much the Lord loves his creation and the mercy he extends; not through books nor Sabbath meetings nor earthly conversation. I know personally! If there is someone whom you love, would you not try and save them from harm. Which is why, yes, I will snatch those as if from the fire! Because I do not pretend to love another, I do! I feel for every man in existence not just those whom are close to me. I'm not perfect! I'm an unworthy sinner, staying constantly aware of it, which keeps me on the right path; because I love my Lord Yeshua and I desire to please him in all aspects of my life;  And, I also fear the things he has shown me. I'm not here to convince another of myself, only that of God! I'm only here to serve! I do not need to display merits to convince another of my self-worth; My task is to share with all from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit whom desire to hear, the understanding and knowledge of God in-order to gain a more confident and intimate walk with him.

    Shalom

    1. AngelTrader profile image61
      AngelTraderposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Rhonda I don't doubt that "there are many people of today that hold skepticism against one having a true spirit of God" but surely the answer isn't to induce fear of eternal damnation and punishment in them.

      Fear is an ego driven negative emotion which in my personal experience has nothing to do with our true elemental state. From what you write it seems you bear guilt for past actions and seek absolution from that past by defending your faith with a passionate fervour!  Is it past guilt that has put visions of "things I have seen beyond anything you can imagine" in your mind? Thank you for considering the rest of us but I have seen things beyond anything you can imagine also. The difference being mine have been visions full of unconditional love, compassion and bliss.

      The spirit realm I am aware of is pure unconditional love and each and everyone of us is surrounded by love continually. Break free from the fear and the love will flow in.

      Namaste

    2. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Shalom Rhonda Elisha!

      I just wanted to say, I hope to read your book.

      You said: There are things I have seen beyond anything you can imagine. There are things I know beyond things you can imagine. I care whether you believe or not! And I know, not only through scripture the Holy Spirit  has the authority to punish without restraint of any blasphemy against God; I have seen it!

      I haven't seen what you have seen. I am most certain of that. Living in Ethiopia must have imposed experiences to your life that I would probably fail to survive.

      Then you also said: And I will say this, I know personally how much the Lord loves his creation and the mercy he extends; not through books nor Sabbath meetings nor earthly conversation. I know personally! If there is someone whom you love, would you not try and save them from harm. Which is why, yes, I will snatch those as if from the fire!

      Thank you for your comments. Sadly, there are too many here who don't know, don't want to know and would never believe if you told them, no matter how harsh your reality has been.

      I believe I could learn much from you though. I don't practice any of the Jewish traditions. My husband is not a believer. My faith is my faith.
      There is a world of difference between what we 'see' and what those who choose not to, see. Therefore, there is nothing but for us to pray.

      Prayer is the key. If you are praying, I thank you for joining with me. In the meantime,

      G'D BLESS you, In THE POWERFUL yet MERCIFUL NAME of our KING! YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

      1. AngelTrader profile image61
        AngelTraderposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        7 Billion souls and 7 Billion individual experiences of reality but you just seem to believe yours is the only valid one! I posed some thoughts to Rhonda who hasn't bothered addressing them...fine, but please don't presume your reality is the only valid one and all others should be discounted.

        What is with the constant fear mongering? Love for crying out loud, reach out and help, live with compassion for others and just stop with the constant retribution line. The life you lead is a learning experience for you alone, and one which your spirit set in play long before you incarnated here on Earth. As mine was and every other spirit.

        Namaste ("I honor the place within you where the entire Universe resides; I honor the place within you of love, of light, of truth, of peace; I honor the place within you, where, when you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.")

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't think anyone is doing anything other than staking their eternal existence that what they choose to believe is correct.

  6. MelissaBarrett profile image60
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    You do realize that typing all of this into a hub would actually reach people who wish to hear what you would like to say.  All this energy put into a thread where non-believers are only going to ridicule you and ignore anything that might be worthwhile is counter productive.

    You think you are doing God's work, but you are actually just forcing people away from his message.  Tirades like this make you look slightly unbalanced and no one wants to take advice on spiritual matters from those who they perceive to be zealots.

    In short, you aren't making any converts here.  You are actually making me, who does believe, feel embarrassed to count you among Christians.

    1. paradigmsearch profile image90
      paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      How ya been? smile

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        LOL, pretty good hon.  And you?

        1. paradigmsearch profile image90
          paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'm still muddling along. “Challenges” being thrown at me left and right. My near future could indeed be interesting times... smile

    2. heavenbound5511 profile image80
      heavenbound5511posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

      18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

      19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

      20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.Ezekiel 3


      Over and over in Ezekiel it says "son of man", "son of man"- "also eat my words" Also in Ezekiel 3 it tell of the need of being filled with God's spirit too, in order to even go and warn the people.

      For you are all the children/sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26
      So those that have accepted Jesus as their Lord, have the spirit of Christ-God's spirit and do as he commissioned us to do in Mark 15- Go you out into all the world and preach the gospel/truth that Jesus saves, heals & delivers.

      And in James 1, we must be a doer of the word of God, or we will not be blessed.
      And in Matt 10:32-33 It warns us that if we don't tell the world about Jesus, than Jesus will deny us.

      So I deny the lies from those who are not following Christ, when they are not.

      And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.John 3:14-15

      Your Great Name
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq03fa_n … re=related

    3. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Now you know how the rest of us feel about humanity in general. smile

    4. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Melissa Barrett!

      You said: You do realize that typing all of this into a hub would actually reach people who wish to hear what you would like to say.  All this energy put into a thread where non-believers are only going to ridicule you and ignore anything that might be worthwhile is counter productive.

      You have a point. The only problem is, I purposefully selected this platform, because it is the very platform that I visited, only to be met by remarks of the most dishonourable kind. I was weighed down by the caustic nature of replies given to Believers in YESHUA, THE KING. I was absolutely saddened by the disrespectful way G'D's NAME was brandished, not by all, but by many.

      You said: You think you are doing God's work, but you are actually just forcing people away from his message.  Tirades like this make you look slightly unbalanced and no one wants to take advice on spiritual matters from those who they perceive to be zealots.

      Melissa, Sweetie... you're judging me. Moreover, you consider to know what G'D HAS put into my heart. You don't know that; and making the remarks you make may actually be feeding the fire of those who really don't need your help. Of course, you're free to do it, but I don't believe you really want to help them mutilate the concept of G'D, deprecate HIS NAME and insult any who, being weaker, cannot withstand their taunts.

      You said: In short, you aren't making any converts here.

      Making converts was never my intention, Beloved of THE L'RD. I am not addressing 'converts' here. I'm defending THE NAME of A MIGHTY, GENEROUS, GOOD and yet, ALL CONSUMING G'D.

      You said:  You are actually making me, who does believe, feel embarrassed to count you among Christians.

      I am really not certain to whom you were directing this comment, but for the sake of my response, let's say 'me'.

      ... and I have no answert for you. What you feel relating to those who you think may believe as you do, but don't show it the way you would, is between you and G'D.

      If I embarass you, then I embarass you. Nothing to be done about that. I didn't come here to build myself a fanclub. Quite the contrary, my faults are on display. That's why I need a Saviour. That's why I love HIM as I do. HE KNOWS me. HE KNEW me... and HE STILL LOVED/LOVES me. HE's not embarassed by me. How do I know? Because HE SEES my heart. HE KNOWS exactly what motivated me.

      BLESSINGS to you, IN THE NAME of THE ONE WHO SPILLED HIS BLOOD for the many of us who know, with certainty, we are flawed, YESHUA HAMASCIACH! THE GLORIOUS SON of G'D. Amen.

  7. MelissaBarrett profile image60
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    Thank you heavenbound, believe it or not I own a bible AND have read it... several times...

    Or are we having a random cut and paste contest where we bold stuff for extra points?  Cool...  How about this one, it's one of my favorites!

    King Arthur: I am your king.
    Peasant Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you.
    King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
    Peasant Woman: Well, how'd you become king, then?
    [Angelic music plays... ]
    King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.
    Dennis the Peasant: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    Arthur: Be quiet!
    Dennis the Peasant: You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

    1. heavenbound5511 profile image80
      heavenbound5511posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Than in that case you must know that you don't appear to be following Christ.
      Actually my response was correct- you can not claim Christ and be ashamed of him at the same time.
      If a Christian, is claiming to be a follower of Christ it will be evident.
      We can not serve 2 masters- dear.

      Yes some of it is copy & pasted but oh well- it is the very thing that you need to hear-the truth.
      You act as though I randomly pulled these scriptures out and that they don't apply- but that's a lie too.
      God bless you- I pray that God reveals to you, that their is one mediator in between God & Man Jesus Christ.
      But you prob. know that too- but do you believe it?- or do you think there just pretty words not to be taken seriously? I do not refuse the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ- and I advise that you do not.
      Even if you won't listen- the choice is still yours.
      You won't be able to refute your justification to God unless you come by the blood of the Lamb- Jesus.

      Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

      You ended with--"Dennis the Peasant: You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

      The word of God is a sword (eph6)and we are to live by the word of God(matt 4)- also it pierces our hearts(heb 4)- no wonder there's boo hooing and whining when the word of God is given- It is showing us exactly what we are and why we need Jesus. So I guess you knew that too- it's in the BIBLE that you read.

      So much difference in reading the bible- than reading and doing. God's wisdom, knowledge left unused- or acted upon is dead to the one that doesn't do or believe it.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not ashamed of Christ.  I am ashamed of brain washed idiots spouting off bible verses in an attempt to prove their superiority.

        If you aren't intelligent enough to form a cohesive argument then don't post.  Cutting an pasting bible verses shows that you are following like a blind sheep and have no opinion of your own. 

        If God would have wanted zombie followers that simply mouth phrases he would not have given us free-will.  You want to tell us what God has done for you, then have at it.  If you want to share how you interpret a verse, or what it means to you, then by all means... you have the floor.

        Otherwise, you are simply a screwed up repetitive version of Bible Google, spouting duplicate content that no one was asking for, that doesn't answer any questions, and that in no way fits what I was looking for.

        So don't try and do that "If you really followed Jesus" crap with me.  Because if YOU really followed you would have something more substantial than a cut and paste. 

        But if you REALLY must repeat the bible verbatim, then for the love of God go read it to the blind or the illiterate.  At least then you would be doing God's work rather than running around pointing out motes.

        1. 0
          Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You call believers brother and sister then berate them for speaking the words of their Father? 

          Came back to edit and add this: You should also accept the challenge presented in the OP.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I call believers brothers and sisters when they are not using the Word to bludgeon other people into believing the way they do.  I call believers brother and sister when they are treating others the way they would like to be treated.  If you are attempting to bring others to Jesus by berating, nagging, and shoving the word of God down someone else's throat, then no you are not my brother or sister.  You have perverted everything that Christ stood for.  Christ was a shepard that led his people... he didn't stand behind them prodding and haranguing them forward.

            In response to your edit:  I live my life according to Jesus's teachings.  I don't need an audience to tell me I'm doing it right.  I also don't need bludgeon people into my viewpoints to feel like a good Christian.

            1. 0
              Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Then why hijack a thread?  No one addressed you in the OP.  No one addressed you at all until you started posting on it.  I just don't see the point.  Someone has a chance to maybe see the salvation of the Lord and you are a distraction.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Do you believe that the Word is so weak that my distraction would stop someone from reaching salvation? 

                Threads like this do more harm than good to Christianity.  Just like street corner preachers do more harm than good.  No one wants to be associated with a group of fruit-loops and Zealots.  I think that little distraction is a little more damning than I could ever be.

                1. 0
                  Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  What word?  The word you say we should not speak?  You are a distraction if you do not believe in what the OP stated.  Why not accept the challenge presented instead of hijacking the thread.  I am sure the challenge is open to anyone who will accept it.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Virgil, if you think I am hijacking a thread, then by all means report me, otherwise do stop going on about it before someone claims it's in the Bible.

                    I don't need to take a silly challenge, I already have my faith.  Why don't you take the challenge, as you seem to think that I am stronger than the Word. (That would be the bible, btw... I thought you of all people would know that)

        2. heavenbound5511 profile image80
          heavenbound5511posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And you still made no sense- I did give you an answer.

          What I intended to get across to you with Ezek 3- is that we are supposed to warn people- and you being a Christian- To say don't tell unbelievers to accept Jesus- don't offer it because they are not listening. This puts you on the side of those that oppose Christ.

          And the part about Galatians 3:26- is showing you that we are sons of God through Jesus Christ- so this clearly means that ezekiel 3 is referring to us, that have received Jesus and we are to warn the people.

          Mark 15- is to shows you that JESUS told us to do this very thing, invite people to the marriage of the lamb- those that accept him will be saved.

          James 1 supports the fact we are to do what God's word says.

          Matt 10: warns us that if we don't tell of Jesus to a dying, rebellious world that He (JESUS) WILL DENY US. So I will now refer you to look at what God said about lukewarm Christians & I won't tell you where it is- since you know your bible.
          And Moses in the wilderness obeyed God and lived- we too have to obey God and lift up the name of Jesus to save those that are perishing without him.

          If not we will be over taken with no way of escape, because our only hope is that in Jesus and if we won't accept it, believe it, do what we have been told to do and obey God- than we have chosen to not dwell in his safety.

          The Gospel of Jesus is so simple a child can understand it.

            So really I was making sense- if you'd read to understand instead of getting mad.


          So in short you are coming across as to say that we should not do as God has instructed or even follow Jesus. And the word of God is useless and should not be shared.
          If we are for Jesus- and  truly understand what he came to do- than by all means we will encourage them to accept Jesus their Lord.


          Jesus is to be shined in the darkness and all God's warns aren't just a simple I love you, but because I love you-walk this way.If you walk this way, you will be safe and blessed- if not cursed.

          *Nope, not a blind sheep, but a sheep that can see and knows the voice of God, the spirit of God. But thanks for all the encouragement-  name calling really makes your point come across-huh?

          God want to give people mercy and save them and forgive them- what a horrible message you have declared it to be- it seems.

          And you had to say superiority- Like I am better than you actually or even think it!
          Wow, you know your bible?
          Hmmm..... I have been given the same chance as the rest of you, I am held to the same standards as thew word I share with you, I too have messed up and needed to repent and learn the ways of God.
          I am here to let you all know that the way God loves me in Christ, is the same way he loves you all and to accept Jesus as your Lord.

          So better than you- NO!
          I learned obedience through what I suffered, I have learned to obey God and live- living a sinful rebellious life does lead to death-separation from God.
          God does not want this- So I will not shut up!

          You may not think you need the word of God- but someone out there does and there life will be saved by Jesus.

          God word is truth, we keep it before our eyes, and in our hearts- so we will not sin against God. I choose to honor God with my life and in order to do this I have to let God sustain me and lead me.

          Just because I choose to honor God and strive to follow him does not mean I am a zombie- you know the word of God tells us about being in one accord and it is around the death & resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord- this is the foundation.
          Without this foundation we will not stand.

          By the way God's word is not crap and me using it is not crap/useless.
          You read your bible?


          So out of my love for God- I share his love with you-to lead you to Jesus the only one that can save you!! How mean I am... boo hoo!

          A lie is a lie- and the people need not to be confused about how God loves them and sent Jesus to save them. I stand for the truth- and the truth will and does set people free.-** http://youtu.be/IeiRdR6wbv4
          God bless you!smile

          1. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            A sincere question. You do not have to answer if you don't wish to. Are you a Jehovah Witness?

            1. heavenbound5511 profile image80
              heavenbound5511posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No- I am not. I like to lead them to Jesus at my front door too! For real-LOL!

              1. paradigmsearch profile image90
                paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                big_smile

                Thanks. The reason I asked was because one chased me out of a friend's house demanding that I study the bible with him. Your bible quoting made me start to wonder. smile As a side note, the guy was never allowed back in that house. big_smile

          2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I didn't say the bible was crap, I said your superior act was crap.  You are not the bible.

            Otherwise, thank you for finally having a conversation rather than throwing scripture at me.

            Please stop asking me if I read my Bible.  I do daily.  It sits on my nightside stand.  I obviously don't get the same meaning out of it that you do.  I don't believe that wickedness means being non-christian, I believe that wickedness means being wicked.  I think that even devout Christians can be wicked by means of pride.  I also believe that Christians can too early assume their roles of judges in heaven.

            Furthermore, no commandment was ever issued that one needs to verbally assault people or give sermons against their will.  I believe that goes against the "do onto others" commandment.  That is unless every single Christian here would be comfortable taking the challenge if you replaced the wording with Allah or Budda instead of God or Jesus.  If you wouldn't be open to someone else doing the exact same thing to you about their religious beliefs then you are breaking a commandment by doing it to others.

            Now, I do believe that it is our job to spread the word of Jesus's teachings and I think he showed us how to do that.  Feed the hungry, tend to the ill, help the poor.  Do it in Jesus's name.  That is witnessing without violating the spirit of his teachings.

            1. heavenbound5511 profile image80
              heavenbound5511posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              We are to lead them to Christ- by this Romans 10:9-10- believe in your heart that Jesus died for our sins,God raised Jesus from the dead and confess him as your  Lord.

              This leading them to God through Christ- at the same time we meet there physical needs- but without Jesus for there salvation all the other help is pretty much worthless because they still are going to die separated from God.

              And to say for me to stop the if we follow Jesus crap - is a direct insult on God's word- because the teachings of Jesus we are to follow.
              directly following this Jesus crap statement you said:But if you REALLY must repeat the bible verbatim, then for the love of God go read it to the blind or the illiterate. So yes you did- it's a fact not opinion.

              Yes,  I would want someone warning me, and sharing with me God's ability to save me by Jesus free gift salvation.

              Actually, someone did tell me about Jesus, and led me to accept him as the Bible says 14 yrs ago and not a man-made way- I wasn't mad- I wanted to know about God and how he can change my life & etc.

              I was so hungry for his word.

              I will have none of your blood on my hands by not opening my mouth and declaring where your freedom is- and I am not leading none to those dead life-less paths that are not of Jesus.

              God has told us right from wrong- but the world doesn't believe he is a jealous God. He does not want us led away into the same bondage as that of the Babylonians- serving there false gods-perverting the way of God- We our warned of this spirits rise in the days that draw close to Jesus return.
              So the word of God is truth and isn't hard to understand when it comes to what we are to do and not. How to serve God and what God hates.

              The choice is ours- we can let God lead us or someone else that preaches a different Jesus- than the one of salvation, grace, power, healing & deliverance.


              By the way I do street ministry and I don't tell people there going to hell!! it is the love of God that leads people to God. Jesus died so we won't be have to condemned. Yes there is a way that leads to death and is too found in sinning against God. God want us to turn from our wrong ways and not walk into destruction- like those in the days of Noah did- they accepted all kinds of sins, false gods, on and on- they did not want to love God by Honoring Him with there life and the things they did.
              We can go out all day and give stuff away but without Jesus and asking God to fill us up with His spirit IN JESUS NAME- we are just as lost as the others.

              God bless you!

              God's people perish for the lack of knowledge- studying the word of God and asking God to lead us, allows us to spot a counterfeit teaching any day.

              1. paradigmsearch profile image90
                paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this
                1. heavenbound5511 profile image80
                  heavenbound5511posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  What do  you mean Para?

                  1. paradigmsearch profile image90
                    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I was just trying to figure out if you were a member of one of them, but I'm now guessing that you are an independent?

            2. brettt profile image60
              bretttposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Melissa ought to be familiar with the bible.. she's in it!

              Matthew 7:15

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                LMAO, I resent that.  I've never wore sheep's clothing in my life.

                1. brettt profile image60
                  bretttposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  don't worry. Nobody here with any understanding would take you for a member of the flock.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You have no idea how grateful I am for that.  Thank you so very much for the compliment.

                  2. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                    Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Melissa is a believable member of the flock, her actions are good, not hypocrytical and egocentric.

  8. 0
    Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago

    To the mockers and naysayers on this thread.  Why not take her up on the challenge she presented?  All you have done is mock and hijack the thread which is against the TOS.  Put your money where your mouth is and accept the challenge.  If she is wrong, nothing will happen.  What if she is right?

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What challenge?

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Troubled Man,

        I'll be honest with you. I knew you would be the first to respond. smilesmile

        Don't give up. Time is on HIS side. smile

        I'm cheering for you!

        BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME of THE ALPHA and OMEGA! Amen.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, you won't. You haven't yet. lol

  9. 60
    LORD ENKIposted 5 years ago

    Yes Melissa Barrett I totaly agree and there are a lot of brainwashed morons that spout off all the time like that.Ignore them most of them love to here themselves flap ther yaps!

  10. 0
    darknight444posted 5 years ago

    hhh
    not only muslims that suffer from bad stupid reponces cristians too

  11. 0
    darknight444posted 5 years ago

    anny one who could convince me that critianity is thr right path????

  12. DoubleScorpion profile image86
    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago

    I don't see what there is to the Challenge. And I am curious how a mere mortal is authorized to even issue a challenge in God's name.

  13. 60
    LORD ENKIposted 5 years ago

    Very well said EMILE.There will unfortuneatly always be people like this around.Know it all Know nothing!

  14. aguasilver profile image87
    aguasilverposted 5 years ago

    Here we have a similar situation to what happened in 1 Kings 18 when Elijah came up against the prophets of Baal.

    I await the fire and the results, though you may need to dampen the wood more in order to show those false prophets the real power that God can use.

    Assuming you do have divine providence to post this thread, it should be interesting.

    I notice that several of the old protagonists are either missing or using assumed names in the forums.

    Prayer does work!

    1. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Aguasilver!

      I was wondering if you were following this at all.

      I wasn't planning on dampening any wood... just holding my ground despite the attacks on my intelligence, the slights addressed toward my linguistic skills and any other barb that awaits me.

      I used to pray to be an Elijah. But, I can't be. I don't have the courage.

      I'm awaiting G'D as well.

      I don't mind who is or isn't here. The fact is, this is a board hosted in free country. Everyone has a right to an opinion. I knew that coming in.

      Prophets of Baal? Hmmm. I don't think they've decided to venture into the fray. Perhaps they're being gracious to me. Perhaps, they're simply otherwise engaged. I'm sure a good many people have so much more to do than hang around the Forums...

      Maybe I would have been smarter to steer clear myself. Oh, but... no... I really am not that smart.

      BLESSINGS to you, Aguasilver, in THE NAME of EL SHADDAI! our ONLY WISDOM, our ONLY STRENGTH! Amen.

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi EmVeeT,

        You may not think yourself smart, but you do have strength to call the antichrists' out on this issue.

        I am busy trying to sort out  a few world matters right now, so am infrequent in the forums.

        My house in Spain was called El Shaddai, which was true!

        With you in spirit and praying for discernment and wisdom as you tackle the cackle of the enemy fools.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          My goodness, you believers sure do love the thought of having enemies, where none exist. lol

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            My goodness, you secularists are totally blind to the truth, you have a great enemy who seeks to destroy you, and you deny his existence as vehemently as you deny God.

            You really think all this nonsense comes from your own fertile brain? you are drip fed by your own personal demons who will keep you in soporific rebellion until they can take you home with them, their home, not the home that God wished you to share with Him.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I have more fear of enemas than your imagined enemies. lol

              I could never live my life with the constant belief I have enemies just because they don't believe in some medieval fairy tale. A very sad existence, one that could easily harbor a lot of hatred towards others.

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No Trouble, you misunderstand, you don't have enemies "because they don't believe in some medieval fairy tale"

                Believers are not your enemy, your enemy is the demon you defuse to believe in that actually has you on a string like a marionette, jerking your little arms and kicking your little feet, and swinging you head from side to side whilst all the time you believe you are 'numero uno' and in control.

                1. lone77star profile image90
                  lone77starposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Sounds like ego, to me.

                  Perhaps the most sinister enemy is one who you think is a friend. But if that enemy pretends to be yourself, finding salvation seems to threaten your very foundation. But it's a foundation built on sand.

                2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That's really funny considering you're about to tell me I have an enemy who is part of some medieval fairy tale you believe...



                  Right on schedule. lol

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    ... and I hear your  master guiding you even now.

            2. 0
              Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              2Co 4:3  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

              2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

              2Co 4:5  For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

              We can't force them to see.  They have to want to see before it can be revealed to them.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                But, I really, really, really want to see the invisible purple rhinoceros in my garage.

                Really. lol

                1. 0
                  Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Wrong spirits.
                  http://www.thefiftybest.com/wine_enthusiast/wine_art/top5spirits.jpg

  15. Disappearinghead profile image88
    Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago

    I'm keeping my gob shut on this one as I don't want anyone to think I fit into any of the positions of those posting here.

    1. 70
      SanXuaryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Love the faith EmVeeT  but convincing people who have no faith is very difficult. I find that even having faith is difficult as a believer because it only works when I am not a part of this World. Unbelievers struggle to know that their is a difference and believers struggle to explain this difference. When we suffer from the free will of people and Earthly systems that mock and condemn humanity they mock GD instead. When those who are a part of such systems that defy God or support such systems, believers become easy to hate and to criticize as well. Unfortunately, believers have to live in such systems as well but they do not have to support them or lie and build a false belief system to condone themselves or their faith. Simply put GD is not going to convince us of our faith when we live a lie. When people live a lie and success and defeat supports their faith in terms of Earthly reasons. They convince themselves that GD is not needed based on the results, but miss the heavenly views of true faith. Just as puzzling are the many believers who embrace the systems that are evil or destroy others and attempt to convince their victims. I am not saying that you our one of these people I am only explaining why it is hard for one to believe today and many believers fail to see this point. I do not attack the unbelievers with the truth but one must separate this World from the next first, in order to see God and understand how he works in our lives. One for instance can rob many in order to be rich legally and claim to be blessed and successful on Earth but be a total failure in heaven.  Churches are filled with such people who try to convince me that being like them is the Godly thing to do and unbelievers mock them and their-selves at the same time. A pounding truth works for some and reading some of these messages posted I see many who mock themselves believing that they are mocking you or GD. Mock the World and understand that people have nothing of this World to place their faith in. Find Sanctuary, build it in your life and your home and everywhere you go.

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Dearest SanXuary,

        I appreciate your comments.

        You know, I really pondered the posting of this challenge, not because I doubt G'D, but because I knew, long before I did, what would happen. However, I'm not doing this for me. If I were, I would have stopped short of the posting.

        Truly, believing in the atmosphere filled with animosity is no fun. Most of the time it's hard work. Being who I believe I should be, based on the creeds of my faith is constantly being challenged. I see the flaws. I make the mistakes. I'm surrounded by half a family who believes and half that doesn't. I make a very honest attempt at doing what I believe G'D WILLS for me, for my family, for the world I influence.

        You're right though. There is so much impeding the progress. Posting something like this brings out the worst in people. The immediate reaction is one of offense.

        To be honest, I was equally offended by the posts I read from several individuals who enjoy being base and blaming the woes of the world on individuals who want nothing more than to help them experience the joy of relationship with G'D a very limited few will ever experience.

        Hmm. I know that what I just wrote will be construed as me placing myself in that margin of the limited few... I admit I will/do; however it is only after having experienced more pain and hardship, losses and struggles than I would even wish on a beast.

        Did I make a mistake posting what I posted? I don't think so. I'm still TRUSTING G'D to make something out of this, as ONLY HE CAN. I'm still praying HE WILL MAKE HIS PRESENCE KNOWN, even if only to a very select few.

        smile

        BLESSINGS to you, SanXuary, through THE EMBLEM and STANDARD we were BLOOD Purchased to appreciate! in YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Evangelizing your religion IS offensive to people. You may not understand that, but you should start.

          1. lone77star profile image90
            lone77starposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            @Troubled, criminals take offense at police doing their job. Arsonists take offense at firefighters and investigators doing their job. Slackers at work take offense at bosses doing their job.

            Why take offense? Because they have something to hide. They want their crimes to remain hidden in dark places. They don't like the light of awareness and truth.

            The big question is: Why do those people cling to the dark so tightly?

            Those who are fearful in the hull of a sinking ship resent those who attempt to rescue them. They lack trust and hide in their fear.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              That isn't going to be seen as a valid analogy.

              @Troubled, criminals take offense at police doing their job.

              The religious are self appointed. There is no proof that what they push is law, truth or anything more than their opinion. To imply that one must abide by the opinions of another negates the idea of freedom of conscience

              Arsonists take offense at firefighters and investigators doing their job.

              That implies that only the religionists know truth and only their idea of truth matters. What makes the fact that some believe the fire to be nothing more than a mirage less valid than the thoughts of a religionist?

              Slackers at work take offense at bosses doing their job. Why take offense?

              One isn't slacker if they consider religionists wrong. They are the workers and the religionist is the slacker. Again, what gives the religionist the right to arbitrarily assume only their opinion can be right?

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I think your argument falls down upon the fact that all of your assertions only hold water if there is no police force, fire brigade or bosses, which there are, because we as a society have robbers, fires and employees.

                As to who holds those authorities, well whilst we can disagree with the authority exerted, we can refuse to recognise them if we wish, but if we do, and we are wrong, then we bear the consequence of our choice.

                Once again we come to the fact that all of us are staking our temporal and eternal destiny on what we believe or refuse to believe.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I would disagree. I think the argument falls short, in your eyes, because you believe that there is ample information for someone to believe that, on a spiritual level, a physical police force was meant to be created. I don't beleive that. Freedom of conscience is the only manner by which anyone can find their truth, on a spiritual level; and I believe the individual that is at the heart of the religion you are part of made that clear.

                  The fact that you acknowledge the obvious; that there will be disagreement as to what truth is, validates the fact that freedom of conscience is the only fair way that anyone can search. And, you are right. We do bear the consequence of our choice. But, it is the choice of the individual.

                  To push religion ignores the fact that everyone has access to the same information, everyone is intelligent enough to process that information and come to their own conclusions and everyone should be given the respect to do that for themselves. It all boils down to the question of respect.

                2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Unfortunately for you, that is not a fact.

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Unfortunately for you, you believe that.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              LOL! You're actually comparing the evangelizing of your religion to police, firefighters and bosses? lol lol <--- coveted double laughie




              Yes, you believe we're some sort of low life hiding under a rock in fear for you to come along and save and regale us with stories of Jesus parting cars on a boulevard for you.

              You probably also believe that we won't consider that insane. lol

          2. brettt profile image60
            bretttposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm really confused here. Exactly who is forcing you to read these posts, ATM? If you're offended, you are more than welcome to simply go away.

            As Shrek so eloquently put it, "you have the right to remain silent. What you lack is the the capacity."

            Or put another way, speaking much does not compensate for saying little.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, I know.



              lol Yes, that's exactly what believers want. In the past, they had us burned at the stake but they can't get away with that stuff anymore. lol

  16. Jason Marovich profile image88
    Jason Marovichposted 5 years ago

    Wow.  Just saw all this.  Many have been busy, I see.  To all my friends here at HubPages, please be careful if you truly do want to learn about Christianity.  NEVER seek its true nature from a forum.  Get up to your nearest Christian church (start with something moderate, I'd suggest) and talk to the priest or pastor there.  Like anything in life, I prefer to talk face to face with someone who has the trust of a real parish or congregation, not some invisible internet voice.  I tell everyone who will listen, be careful on the internet, be careful of the stuff you read on it.  Go to one of God's known priests and hear for yourself the Good News.  Just my advice, of course.

    1. lone77star profile image90
      lone77starposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      @Jason, good advice. But one might be just as careful with people in "real life" or "face-to-face."

      Some ministers do not know what they are talking about. Some parrot scripture, but have a shallow interpretation of it.

      One Christian I met at a party (at my brother's house) was thrilled to be saved, because his pastor said he could do anything and it wouldn't change his salvation.

      Really?

      He could lust after loose women, murder innocent children, and steal property from others and still go to Heaven? Would his heart really be following Christ, or would it merely be self-deception?

      I seriously believe that he was more interested in feeling good about following Mammon (deceiving himself that he is following Christ) than in hearing the "real" Good News.

  17. 60
    LORD ENKIposted 5 years ago

    One of GODS own priests?The same priests that sodomize young boys?

  18. 60
    LORD ENKIposted 5 years ago

    One of GODS own priests?The same priests that sodomize young boys?

  19. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Oh Lord help us for we know not what we do!


       Sound familar?

  20. LeanMan profile image81
    LeanManposted 5 years ago

    W'W, I just tried to read this thread..B't I am real'y hav'ng too much troub'e..

    Do we have to believe in Orcs, Hobb'ts and Fa'ries too??

    I'm up for any challenge - but I don't understand th's one!!! Is it going to be in next years Olymp'cs??

    Oh well off to dance naked in the woods with some v'rgins....

  21. 0
    Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago

    The challenge was issued and accepted.  Here is part of the OP.


    The first part of the challenge is to read those three chapters of the bible that are mentioned.  So far no one has done so, though some have accepted the challenge that was set forth. 

    I wonder if they will read or not.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's the challenge? That's it? What's so challenging about reading scriptures, other than trying to get through it without vomiting?

      1. 0
        Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Have you read them yet?  The one who opened this thread mentioned reading them in her second or third post, I think.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I've read the scriptures, I've read the whole bible.  I'm sure that others have as well.  What is so hard to understand about "I don't buy it?"  Why do you insist that others have to think like you.

          I read the bible, I get lessons from it.  However I don't have any desire to speak in tongues and start flopping around on floors.  I don't feel like picketing funerals.  I don't feel like telling every other person in the world they are wrong.  And I certainly don't feel like posting random challenges with no real purpose on a writing forum.

          Please understand, reading a bible doesn't mean you agree.  Stop assuming that people are just ignorant of the Word.  Many are as well read as you are and simply think that it's Bull-crap.

          Although more people would be open to Christianity if the loudest of it's followers were certifiably insane, gullible, and pushy as hell.  It's like clown day at the used car lot.

          1. 0
            Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Nothing I wrote in the comment you replied to was directed at you.  I can see that you were offended by what I said to ATM.  Have you ever considered asking why you were offended? 



            No one said anything about speaking in tongues or flopping around on the floor.  No one said anything about picketing funerals.  How do you know it is just a random challenge?  Do you know the mind of God?  Are you so close to God that you need nothing else? 




            I used to read the Bible a long time before I gave my life to God.  I didn't really understand any of it.  The Bible is the revealed Word of God.  It isn't understood by the mind of men.  It is revealed by God's Spirit.  If you understand it, then you have the spirit of God within you.  If not, then God does not dwell with you.




            I am glad to see that those whom you call brothers and sisters mean nothing to you.  I am also glad that those who do not believe mean nothing to you as well.  If you had any real idea of what happens to those who do not believe, you would be begging them to come to Jesus.

            I think I will post some of Jesus' own words for you now.

            Mark 9:44  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

            Three times the same quote was made by Jesus Himself.  I think that would mean it is a very important quote.  Since you stated earlier that you follow Jesus, tell us what these words mean so we will know also.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              LMAO, it must be because I have Satan inside me.  Or it could be because you are being disrespectful by insinuating that those who don't believe the same way as you "just aren't getting it".  I can believe in Jesus without believing that everyone else is wrong.  Hell, the Jewish don't even believe in Jesus and they've got a straight path to God's door.



              Being a zealot is being a zealot.  It doesn't matter how it manifests.  I know it is just a random challenge because EmVeeT is certainly not acting in any official capacity of God. She is judging, ergo she is not acting in a Christian-like way.  I think God would have sent a Christian that was beyond reproach to issue any personal challenges. I don't know the mind of God, you don't either.  I am close enough to Jesus to be secure in my faith without being stupid about it.  I don't need others to believe exactly as I do to confirm the "rightness" of my faith.



              Once again, good for you, sorry about your poor reading comprehension.  I read it, I understood it.  I still don't think that my interpretation is the only interpretation.  That would be judging... and Jesus said that is bad.  But I do understand it, so by your definition I do indeed have the spirit in me.  So, since we both have the spirit, then which of us is right?  Oh yeah, if I don't agree with you, then I must not have "got it".  For you are the only true Christian right?  So Virgil, tell me please... and I want a real answer... Why is your interpretation more valid than mine?  Why are you the true christian? 




              I understand, the air up their on your pedestal must be pretty thin.  Let me explain this, I believe that other's should be treated the way I would like to be treated.  My brothers and sisters in this thread must have forgotten that little commandment somewhere.  You can not be humble while claiming to know everything.  You cannot point out the mote in other's eyes while ignoring the log in your own.  You cannot throw the first stone.  Nor can you judge another master's servants. You, and the OP seem to have forgotten those words.  I guess I should probably challenge my brothers and sisters to explain why those verses don't matter.  After all, am I not my brother's keeper?

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Melissa, I love you.

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                  MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hollie, I didn't know you felt that way.  I'll keep you in mind if things between hubby and I don't work out *grins*.  (That was a joke y'all, don't get your knickers in a twist)

                  1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                    Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    They will get their nickers in a twist * giggling* But, I will accept second best.

              2. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                And, I am not weird.(well, perhaps a little bit)Just respect a balanced view.

              3. 0
                Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Everything you replied here is judgmental, the very thing you accuse me of.  Now tell me again about do unto others. 

                If I see someone who is in error, should I let them alone?  Should I help them to get things straight?

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                  MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Isn't that what I'm doing?  You have strayed from the path, I am trying to lead you back to the true meaning of the Word, my brother.

                  By the way, thanks for not answering any of my questions.  It takes someone very strong in their faith to ignore any questions that they might not have answers to.  I'm sure that Christ would much rather have followers that bleat like sheep rather than those who face questions and still believe.

                  As far as do unto others, I actually appreciate it when others let me know when I am being a pompous, self-righteous zealot.  I don't want to walk around offending everyone who doesn't believe like me... I mean who would?

                  1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                    Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Helloo Melissa, Im back from my ban for being a naughty boy. How are you?

                  2. 0
                    Virgil Newsomeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Why should I answer questions when you have all the answers?  If I was a fish, should I have taken the bait? 

                    You say you want to be warned if you are going the wrong way or that you have strayed.  You are not helping anyone at all by posting in this thread saying no one has to believe in Jesus.  In fact, you are doing the opposite. 

                    You can keep throwing stones and beating your brothers and sisters if you want, but there will be a day when you will stand before God in judgment.  What will be your excuse for all the words you have spoken against God's children? 

                    Mat_12:36  But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

                    More of Jesus' Words of love.

                  3. brettt profile image60
                    bretttposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    "As far as do unto others, I actually appreciate it when others let me know when I am being a pompous, self-righteous zealot.  I don't want to walk around offending everyone who doesn't believe like me... I mean who would?"

                    In that case, Melissa.. you're a pompous, self-righteous zealot. Or at least you have been in every single post of yours that I've read.

                    you're welcome for the heads up.

    2. brettt profile image60
      bretttposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, my understanding here is that the real 'challenge' is to:

      Bow down before The Powerful Creator, laying down your transgressions before HIM. Repent of your evil doings, your slanderings, your slights. Ask forgiveness of HIM, in THE NAME of JESUS of Nazareth.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That isn't a challenge, that is a premise for a pre-frontal.

  22. brettt profile image60
    bretttposted 5 years ago

    On a side note... I find it a little silly to refuse to spell out GOD or LORD, which are merely titles and have no particular significance in and of themself, yet to actually spell out YESHUA HAMASCIACH in its entirety. It seems to me that the jews tried to bury the full and specific name of the Lord by substituting titles. Therefore, modifying the titles is redundant and meaningless, but spelling out YESHUA HAMASCIACH would be abhorrent to jews. Personally, I believe the Lord's real name should be used whenever it glorifies Him, but I'm just sayin'.

    1. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Brett,

      I thought to address your comment about the way I write G'D. You may think it strange... and maybe it is peculiar. I didn't start off doing so; but after taking a Bachelor Degree in Messianic Bible Studies, I learned aspects of G'D's Character and Majesty that caused me to decide I needed to be more reverent. I began using that form of writing HIS NAME (only G'D and L'RD) that way, and have done so ever since.

      It's become a natural inclination. When I don't, if I don't, I automatically go back and correct myself. You're right. G'D and L'RD are titles. Nothing more. I write HIS other Names the regular way...

      This is one more peculiarity particular to me. I guess some could consider it a quirk. For me, it's showing respect... in a very small way, insignificant to anyone other than me and, knowing the intentions of my heart, HIM. ...

      smile

      ... just letting you know..'. smile

      BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME of THE MOST HIGH, MOST SOVEREIGN ROCK of SALVATION! Amen.

      1. brettt profile image60
        bretttposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I understand. But my understanding is that the practice of not spelling out our Lord's name came from the Pharisees who deigned that speaking Yauah's name outloud was considered blasphemy. So it was carried over to not even spelling it, lest someone half asleep accidentally said His name while reading.

        I respect your intent, and you certainly don't have to change your methods on my account, but it has seemed contradictory to me to use His real name while refusing to spell out a title.

        On the other hand, you're a step ahead of 95% of 'christians' who don't even know that His true name isn't actually "God" or "Lord". And for that matter, it isn't "Jesus".  smile

  23. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago

    --Calling all atheists--
    There is no longer any need to debate religion. Religion is on the decline all by itself. Do not kick a man when he's down. Although it may benefit you to vent your frustrations that the beliefs of others are ridiculous, sleep safely in the knowledge that those beliefs will cease to exist in the near future. Education has given rise to scientific belief.

    Thank the Atom! We can all get back to doing something useful with our time like developing cures for diseases and contributing back to society! Atheists are sent by the devil, yes, all of those scientists keeping us fed and alive, those malicious beings!

    For those who require stats & proof of the decline just read my hub smile

    Have a nice day everyone!

    1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
      Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "The world's largest atom smasher, designed as a portal to a new view of physics, has produced its first peek at the unexpected: bits of matter that don't mirror the behavior of their antimatter counterparts.

      The discovery, if confirmed, could rewrite the known laws of particle physics and help explain why our universe is made mostly of matter and not antimatter." via Yahoo news. If science is always changing the theories they have, how truthful can you consider them to be?

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "If the finding is borne out, it would be a big deal, because it would mean the reigning theory of particle physics, called the Standard Model, is incomplete. Currently the Standard Model does allow for some minor CP violation, but not at the level of 0.8 percent. To explain these results, scientists would have to alter their theory or add some new physics to the existing picture."

        It would help tremendously if you took the time to understand what science was all about. lol

        1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
          Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          roll Science is nothing more than the study to understanding something that already exists. You like always missed the point sir.

          sci·ence   

          sci·ence [s ənss]
          (plural sci·ences)
          n
          1.  study of physical world: the study of the physical and natural world and phenomena, especially by using systematic observation and experiment (often used before a noun) 
          2.  branch of science: a particular area of study or knowledge of the physical world
          the life sciences

          3.  systematic body of knowledge: a systematically organized body of knowledge about a particular subject
          the behavioral sciences

          4.  something studied or performed methodically: an activity that is the object of careful study or that is carried out according to a developed method
          the science of dressing for success

          5.  knowledge gained from science: the knowledge gained by

          1. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I, also, have independently had this thought.

            Let's face it, great minds think alike. big_smile

  24. 60
    LORD ENKIposted 5 years ago

    Hi Melissa.You are very right my dear,It,s either the thin air or being from a floater end of the gene pool.Bible thumping wack jobs like her have nothing else going on in life so they resort to disruption by being a fanatic.IT'S PROBALY THE ONLY WAY SHE CAN GET ANYONE TO PAY ATTENTION TO HER! However there is a site for her It's the retard site!Never pay attention to people like her in this world there just simply not worth it.Your friend LORD ENKI.

  25. 60
    Joseph Barrelposted 5 years ago

    Beautiful...

  26. emrldphx profile image61
    emrldphxposted 5 years ago

    Certainly, arguing over who is the best true believer of Christ is the true way for any believer...

  27. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago

    Guys (everyone), please, go and do something useful, write an interesting hub about hydroelectric dams or something, religion is dead, let the faithful die faithful for their children surely won't be smilex

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Good advice, I will be more than happy to chat here in the RELIGIOUS FORUM without all the inane and snide remarks made by those who believe as you do.

      I welcome your absence, please pass it on, reach as many secularists as you can and save yourselves the frustration of being here, unwanted, unappreciated and unsuccessful in your quest for a God free society.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        But, we do live in a God free society. What we don't live in is an invisible, magical, friend worshiping free society.

  28. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago

    Aguasilver I sense resentment in your statements, please refrain from negativity on hubpages sad
    I agree with your feelings though, this should be a place for debate and not ad hominem. Though the "quest for a God free society" is not unsuccessful ^^ religion truly is on the decline to extinction.

    1. 0
      darknight444posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      you had it comming soory sad

      1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
        Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Had what coming, I didn't receive any ad hominem?

        1. 0
          darknight444posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          if religion is dead what are you doing here ???
          and what all of those ppl are posting aboute???

          1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
            Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm here to try and stop people from wasting time arguing about something that is going to happen anyway.
            Religion is dead, and by that I mean it's headed for extinction.

            1. 0
              darknight444posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              maybee a lots of religions are going for that

              but islam is going e lot stornger and it is growing very very fast soo research aboute it

              1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Not where it counts, mainly in poor, undeveloped, uneducated countries, where Christianity is also growing. In the developed countries where logic prevails, Islam is not growing stronger at all smile
                Also factor out all of the people that believe in Islam out of fear and you've got a very poor effort indeed.
                Need stats? Here: http://philanthropy2012.hubpages.com/hu … s-A-Sadist

                1. 0
                  darknight444posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  you re statment is stupid pls look at the facts

                  if islam is stupid why ppl from e lot of uropian modern contrys even in america  join it ?
                  2 you canot say that the arabice or aficain  countrys are poor and uneducated that s raciste shame on you *

                  the 3 rd wold existe because of the uropian imperialisme racisme thise countrys suffer from racisme slavery culturale slavery and e lot of other craape

                  the 3 rd wold existe just because urpian country took from the centerys and years  of evolution and natural develpement
                  the arabique world was e subject to e military ocupation of uropian countrys where thy defuse there igonnance and poverty and now thise countrys are just recuperating

                  i m educated and i m well learned and i m e muslim

                  1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    DarkNight,
                    1. I made an entire hub containing the facts. I am not using the media as back up for my statements, but statistics of the prevalence and change-rates of religion. In the developed countries, Islam, and all other religions are seeing a drastic and rapid decline into extinction. Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland are said to be 100% faithless within the next 30 years. in the Czech republic, 60% already are, in the Netherlands, 40%.

                    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … zz1e9cTloW

                    2. Yes I can say that some arabic and African countries are poor and uneducated. No it's not racist. It has nothing to do with the peoples' race in those countries but merely the area they were born in.

                    3. Yes, 3rd world countries exist undoubtedly as a result of developed countries behaving atrociously. I agree. This doesn't change the fact that as a result of poor education, government control & morals, 3rd world countries see the bulk of religious people concentrated in them. There are virtually no faithless in 3rd world countries. As the 3rd world countries recuperate, you will see that they also lose their religion. Religion is a part of poverty.

                    So as I said, all religions, including Islam, including Christianity, are headed for the bin.

                    Thanks,

                    Philanthropy smile

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol Oh yes, I'm convinced. lol

                2. 0
                  darknight444posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  you look educated soo dont be like the moste of ppl in here
                  where thy are guided by the media to serve politicale goals and research islam more

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    But Islam is a political system, not a continuation of the bible, Islam was invented to create a political system for what were polytheistic descendants of Shem, and to counter Christ.

                    As a social system for less developed nations it has worked well, but it's political statement that it seeks to bring all other systems into subjection to it's rule, makes it unacceptable to any modern western society.

                    Islam is a political system disguised as a religion.

  29. MelissaBarrett profile image60
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    To everyone else, thank you for your kind words smile  He's really not upsetting me though.  I'm pretty secure in my beliefs.

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
      Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly. smile

  30. seigfried23 profile image81
    seigfried23posted 5 years ago

    Captain Redbeard; it's really quite simple, sir:  just because Einstein's theory of relativity burst onto the scene, doesn't mean the results of Newtonian physics are invalidated!  After all, your car still works, right?  The vehicle wasn't just conjured up by magic - and I am not being flippant; at least not purposely so - it took an understanding of Newtonian physics to build it.  The same goes for the microwave, the space-shuttle, the polio vaccine; whatever you like.  The proof is in the pudding, as they say.  Someday, as we learn more about the universe, special relativity will almost certainly be modified; yet, how can one say it was "wrong" when the only way we could have put satellites in earth-orbit was with an understanding of it?  Modification of physical theory does not invalidate it; it just gives us a greater understanding and the ability to do more things.  This presents an unwilling juxtaposition to, say, religion or other tenet of mysticism, whether you call it Buddhism or parapsychology, most of which overwhelmingly claim to know everything, and are tailor-made to twist definitions (and often, usurp them entirely) in order to regain its every-slipping foothold on our primitive minds (though a small fraction of these minds get less so with every passing moment).

    It is simply absurd - you are not absurd, obviously, since you are a stranger to me - to question the validity or even the veracity of scientific endeavor, and then happily get on an airplane or open the refrigerator that allows you pursue something else in life other than spending the entirety of the day hunting and gathering food (not that there's anything wrong with the latter!).  Science works; and it isn't restricted to astrophysics or biology or chemistry; it is a way of thinking that understands the primacy of theories that are not only explanatory; but also, predictive.  And that, just because you hang around a group of people different from the ones around which you grew up, doesn't change any of its fundamental assertions.  Physics is the same in China, Germany and North Korea (well maybe not the last actually;-)) as it is here, unlike any other so-called body of knowledge.

    The simplest realization really is that just because a new atom-smasher unveils a heretofore unkown supersymmetric particle, the chair you are sitting on doesn't suddenly collapse, or your watch turn into a firearm.  As such, science endows us with the only objective truth - although I must submit, not necessarily the most important ones.  That can vary from person to person.

    1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
      Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You prove my point. Look, electricity wasn't invented, it was discovered. The law of aerodynamics wasn't constructed, it was discovered and studied, the law of gravity doesn’t take away from the laws of aerodynamics. They exist together.

      My point is this, we will never have all the answers. Ever. The more we search for knowledge the more we loose ourselves. With the birth of harnessing the power of the Atom, we haven't bettered mankind, we have in fact made mankind more dangerous.

      Man in his tireless quest for supreme power has invent the diseases like Lyme Disease. We put the leading scientist to work for us after Nazi Germany was taken down. We pardoned these men who sought nothing more than perfecting the way to kill and gave them jobs, in the name of science. What I am saying is the advancement of science is not the saving grace. It will not better mankind, it never has.

      I understand the horrible things done in the name of God and Allah. I understand the millions that have been put to death because of crazy beliefs that "The gods or God or Allah" told them to murder, starve or enslave. But no matter how many religions come and go, no matter how many people pervert the message of the God I follow, there will be nothing that can ever take the place of a faith based on the idea that the only purpose in life is to love your neighbor as yourself. No science, no book, no person will ever be able to say anything to argue the fact that if people followed this one thing, to live by love we would be better off. Love being a truth defined by a God that says it is selfless, laying down your life for your brother. Love that acts and doesn't just speak but acts out on behave of those who need love, water, food, shelter. The bible says you will know those who follow Christ by their love for one another. So those Christians you find hating, and judging and condemning.....well, I guess their not living the definition of what love is. Are they?

      I don't want to argue, I just wanted to speak my peace. Science has never proven that God doesn't exist. I believe in fact that science time and time again proves him true. In every manner.

      1. seigfried23 profile image81
        seigfried23posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I suppose everyone is entitled to their beliefs; however incompatible they are with the objective world, and indistinguishable they are from merely saying "I believe this true" (never mind that the actual truth doesn't require anyone's belief).  As long as you're not hurting anyone, carry on...

        1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
          Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What has science proven that Faith hasn't?

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Now let's not get silly.

            Faith didn't make the computer you are typing on.  Science did.

            Science didn't create love and compassion, for many faith did.

            Neither is inherently bad, nor are they incompatible.

            1. paradigmsearch profile image90
              paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Now how can anybody dispute that?

            2. Captain Redbeard profile image60
              Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Faith absolutley made this computer. As did the house I sit in and the Sears tower! How can you say, "I will do this, I will do that" without faith? You play simple board games because you have faith you will win. Everything you do, no matter the person, does it because they have faith.

              Now, if you want to get into the nitty gritty as my buddy Nacho Libre says, show me one fact that bible doesnt support. Actually I am starting a new topic for this. Give me a second.

              1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
                Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The Challange part 2

              2. paradigmsearch profile image90
                paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, my... Neurons of concern are beginning to flicker in my mind... I mean really?

                1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
                  Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Really, why not? I have yet to see a thread posing this. Maybe it's just because I new, who knows, oh well. smile come on it will be fun! Debating is the whole reason people come to this side of hub pages lol

              3. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wow.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That was exactly what I was going to say, too. smile

              4. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Captain Redbeard, people play games with the faith that they will win, but that's because they Know there is a chance they could based on evidence of the past.

                Religion is founded on Blind Faith.

                That's the same as saying religion is founded on nothing.

                In any other case where someone would so blindly follow something, it would be called "insanity" and one would be given the status of "insane" smile

                1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
                  Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  False, you not being someone who is of faith can't say you know why people follow God now can you? wink

                  1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    False. My being a human who can read statistics and words can know why people follow God now can't I ? wink

      2. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
        Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "With the birth of harnessing the power of the Atom, we haven't bettered mankind"

        "What I am saying is the advancement of science is not the saving grace."
        That had better be a joke. Capitain TrollBeard.

        Without science humanity would not have existed. Rubbing two twigs together to make fire is science. Crafting a wheel is science. Hygiene, Medicine is science. Houses is science.

        Are you saying that humanity is better off without Wheels, Fire, Hygiene, Medicine and housing?

        This is why religion is dying in the modern world.

        1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
          Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And if it's not a joke what are you going to do? You don't even understand the definition of what you have named yourself. First definition of the word Philanthropy is, "1.  desire to benefit humanity: a desire to improve the material, social, and spiritual welfare of humanity, especially through charitable activities" Yet you mock spiritual welfare and riducual your fellow man.

          Just so we are clear, humanity has nothing to do with science. Look up the words you want to use before you use them if you want to be taken seriously.
          Crafting is not science, crafting is an action not a study. Hygiene is not science, it's an instinct. Medicine is science, yay you got one. "Houses" is not a word..........

          What I am saying is that the Atom and the study of things that don't matter while the things that do matter like food, water and shelter for our fellow man is ruining humanity. that you can thank science for.

          You show me how it is dying. You yourself belong to the church of facts and evidence and are intollerant of anyone who thinks or believes different from you. How can you say you are any better, through your own actions you have put yourself higher then those around you.

          1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
            Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I am not mocking spirituality, only religion. And I am not mocking but teaching my fellow man, out of altruism, I might add.

            Humanity is BUILT on science. Without science we would not have survived. Crafting is science. Crafting: an activity involving skill in making things by hand. The fact that you need to know how to craft something in the first place means you need to have an understanding of it's physical properties. The science, behind that object. You cannot craft anything without understanding the basic science behind how to do it smile

            Now as for the following statements:
            "Hygiene is not science"
            hygienics
            1. the branch of medical science that studies health and its preservation; hygiene.

            '"Houses" is not a word..........'
            "Houses" is in fact a word. It is the plural form of the noun "house" which is also a word. (this was very funny to read)

            Furthermore, architecture is the science associated with creating housing*

            So actually I "got 5" and you "got 0".

            All science is useful. The knowledge of the atom has allowed us electricity for billions of people. Who are you, an unscientific man to say when one piece of information is more useful to society than others.

            Also, I imagine that you didn't wish to say that food shelter etc was "ruining humanity"

            Show you how it is dying? Look at any stats (there are lot's on my hub) of religious populations in the modern world.

            "The Church of facts" is not a religion. Statements like these can only mean you're trolling? I am not religious and I am intolerant to those who are incorrect. Correctness being based on empirical evidence/logic and not somebody's word.

            I have not put myself higher than those around me, you have put yourself lower by not accepting the fact that religion is dying.

            1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
              Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Being that I am almost 7 foot tall means that I have been called a lot of things but a troll is not one of them. I don't really understand the reference either. That's twice you have called me a troll. How is that showing humility?

              Second, Does the dug beetle understand math in order to roll poo? Does an infant understand gravity, or balance with stacking blocks? Does a bird calculate the weight or structure integrity of it's nest? Does a funnel web spider make a blue print before building it's web? Does the dog or cat understand the importance of cleaning itself? These creatures do because it's what they know to do. They don't have to understand the whys.

              Look I can except that people do not believe the same things and that over time practices that make sense can become dogmatic tradition but the facts are this, you are in a Religious and Philosophy forum trying to convince people who believe that we are a dying breed. If you study history the one thing that should be more clear than anything else is that humans will always worship something.

              Who I am is a American who is sick of seeing his tax dollars go to programs that are fruitless and have no reason for being. Last year 5 schools in my city closed due to lack of funds. My tax dollars could have been going to that. Streets are crumbling all around my neighborhood and the drop out rate/teen pregnancy/social services (food stamps, welfare, wic) has tapped my state dry! No I didn't mean to say food and shelter was ruining humanity. I have Lupus and my fingers have started to curl up which makes it hard to just write and submit anything I say. I have to edit everything I write and sometimes I mess up without realizing it.

              Religion, "definition 3.  personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by" Sounds like you.

              Clever phrases like your last one are what make you look like you ridicule your fellow man

              1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                'Troll' is an internet term for someone who says things specifically to wind people up and not because they think it could benefit anyone or indeed because they believe in it themselves. The verb is "to troll" and "trolling" is the present participle.

                hy·giene  (hjn)
                n.
                1. The science that deals with the promotion and preservation of health. Also called hygienics.

                http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hygiene

                You said hygiene is not a science. It is. You were wrong.
                (Bringing up other meanings of hygiene has no weight to the fact that in at least one sense of the word, it is science)

                In the Czech Republic, 60% are already non theists. 40% in the Netherlands. Read my hub for more information about the dramatic decrease in religious populations. People will believe in something, but something that is founded on reason this time.

                As far as I am aware, America has contributed a very large amount to science through it's tax dollars. What I mean by that is, the things you are paying for is the creation of new vaccines that save lives, the betterment of school education etc.

                However, If what you mean is you don't want to be paying for things like Space Flight programs and weaponry science costing billions of £/$ when there is poverty back down here on Earth, then I agree with you entirely. But that is not to say that studying that science is bad, but that there are better things to be spending time & money on. Better sciences, like agriculture (they are creating sky-rise farms!), housing (to accommodate the poor better) and education. Then perhaps we can move on to conquering other planets etc.

                As for definition 3 of religion. I apologise but I had never heard of that definition (and I am trusting you that you didn't just make it up :L). By "religion is dying" I meant the official religions based on deities are dying out. Not people's strong beliefs about morals (which I thought was called philosophical view/moral theory?)

                I do not intend to ridicule you, but I do intend to emphasise the ludicrousness of your statements.

                1. Captain Redbeard profile image60
                  Captain Redbeardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I didn't know about the trolling term lol that's good. Look I never intended to wind anyone up. Sorry if I did that to you.

                  I do not buy that my tax dollars go to the betterment of man when the fools that run the world are in bed with the money makers keeping the people in the dirt. For the first time in American history we will be facing jail time/fines up to $5000 if we don't possess healthcare. That is wrong and oppression. For the government to force it's people to buy a commercial product is wrong and against everything that America is supposed to stand for.

                  I got the definition from my dictionary attached to word document program on my computer. It's what I use to fix the errors in my typing.

                  As far as the hygiene topic goes, you want to use one definition that man has made but I am trying to point out the oldest forms of what "man" defines. hygiene is not man made or science designed. We may have added to the principle by discovering it's better to brush your teeth than to let them rot out, floss in addition to brushing so on and so forth by grooming yourself in the aspect of keeping clean or healthy has always been around. From the time the first primate picked a flea from its furry back. Science has always and always will just define what already was.

                  Belief has always been founded on reason but reason always changes doesn’t it? I find it interesting that for the past two thousand years the teachings have Christ haven't just survived but flourished! Time changes, kingdoms have risen and fallen but the message of Christ to love you neighbor as yourself is still strong and even founded the western world! Time was split in two because of this man, not only was a faith based religion born because of him, he also influenced two other major religions. My point is this. Science will always find something that is interesting. Water on mars, a new way to build a mechanical valve, new ways to build a stronger structure but what it will never be able to do is create life. Never has and never will. We can clone life from life but create it from scratch, we haven't been able to do and will not be able to do. Even though through the scientific studies that have given us the answers to what it takes to create life, we have never been able to do it.

                  I will leave with this since I seem to just be causing trouble, I simply believe that Christ is the way the truth and the light. No man goes to the father except through him. You don't have to believe that, you don't even have to hear it! That's the great thing, I believe that he gave us all the free will to choose what we want to do with our lives and the opportunity to learn about him if we so choose to. smile pretty fair to me.

                  1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    "Science has always and always will just define what already was"
                    so invention isn't real?

                    It's a shame about the extremes of capitalism, I agree, it needs changing. It's very unfair what is happening and the two spectrums of wealth in the world. This is political however, it hasn't much to do with science.

                    I'm sorry to break it to you, we have already created life out of synthetic materials: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9005023/ns/ … shYRM2Ia9I

                    So "never has and never will" isn't quite correct ^^
                    The science is very promising for bettering society.

                    Please don't be so adamant about what science hasn't done yet, the progress we're making is so rapid that a true statement today by tomorrow may not stand ^^

                    And yes that's very fair, it's a shame that not all religious people take your free-choice view. With choice however, less & less people take religion because you can prove and see science but you can only feel that God is there.

                  2. EmVeeT profile image81
                    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Dearest Captain Redbeard,

                    Please don't feel that you're commentary is unimportant. The fact is, one of the few remaining freedoms in the Western world, one that is fast becoming a challenge to keep, is the freedom of speech. Some may not agree with a particular point, but up until this point in time, everyone is free to share their heart, their mind, their viewpoint.

                    I've been extremely busy these last few days, I work during the day, and have been booked to sing Friday, Saturday and Sunday... so I haven't visited this page, other than to read a few posts here and there... and to add another Hub to my Pages... but I just read this post, and attaching what you've just shared with what I briefly read relating to science or politics up to this point, your input has value!

                    We, as Believers, cannot decide to pull out of a debate because of the way others feel about us, as long as THE HOLY SPIRIT is imparting HIS Wisdom in us. If we begin to feel that our responses are coming from the flesh, then perhaps it is time to draw back, but I don't consider that to be true at this point. I have not yet read what Philanthropy2012 has responded... I have to run out of the house right now, but I will be back to give that viewpoint fair attention as well.

                    The truth is the truth. Some may deny it. Some may see things differently, but in the end, truth is immutable. Truth doesn't change dependent on humanity. Therefore, if you are stating the truth you know, and are certain that your heart is yearning to Glorify G'D, please don't consider you are causing trouble. Everyone is welcome to share their heart. That is what G'D Gives us. Some die for the privilege. Let's not give the opportunity up because we consider we're stirring irritations. That's what debates do.

                    BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME of our MOST HIGH, LOVING, MERCIFUL and WISE G'D, through YESHUA, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE, THE WAY! Amen.

              2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Those animals also cannot cure anything that ails them, hence they can die from that which medical science has already found cures, they cannot send themselves to the moon or a probe to Jupiter, they cannot communicate with each other round the world and create systems of information that everyone has access. The list go on and on.

                In other words, your examples are pointless.



                Comparing years gone by of people embracing medieval thinking, superstitions and myths due to ignorance and religions does not mean the world is changing today in which people have access to more information and knowledge than ever before.

                Of course, some refuse to let go of that they embrace, however their children may very well let go in light of our changing world. smile

      3. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Look what unleashing the power of religions has done for us? Dangerous is a mild adjective to describe it.



        No, in the name of The Fuehrer.



        LOL! Truly, that is a blatantly dishonest claim and denial of reality.



        Followed by another. lol

  31. Gary Davis profile image61
    Gary Davisposted 5 years ago

    Look guys.  All the discussion, debate, fighting, arguing, insults, "gotcha commentary" or pontification in the world is not going to change a thing.  Here it is in a nutshell. We're all in the same boat.  We're all human beings with a choice. We've been born,(quickened)and therefore have free will, the capacity for independent thought, responsibility for our own end. If you don't think God is fair, or you don't like the way he does things, you have the "right" or capacity to gripe, but, God is sovereign. He sets the standards. In his infinite mercy, he has given us all the information we need to settle our eternal destinies. He has also provided the way out. (Jesus Christ) Take it or leave it.  I think the author of this post is trying to warn you (us, me) that there is a day of judgment.  Troubled Man, one of these days, you are going to die.  (hope it's a long time from now, but, it IS inevitable)  "It is appointed unto man, once to die and after this, the judgement."  I don't want to see you go to hell. Yes, I know that you'll probably come back with  biting comment, but facts are facts and on Judgement day, this "post thread" will be only a flash in the pan of your entire life." Believing in the Bible is not mandatory. If you don't believe it, don't worry about it. However, actions have consequences. Those of us who are saddled with the responsibility of knowing the difference between right and wrong, will be required to answer for what we did with the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

    Islam is false. Catholicism is false. Jehovah's Witness doctrine is false. Buddhism is false as is Wicca, First Church of Christ, Scientist, Mormonism etc.  The ONLY person of any consequence that I have to answer to is Jesus. EVERYTHING else is fluff, hyperbole, words........... Jesus said in the book of John, 14th chapter, "I am the way, the truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." He's either telling the truth, or is a liar. I believe he's telling the truth.  There's an old story of the death of Voltaire which he was attended by a doctor and nurse. Allegedly, when he passed, he was screaming about the flames, the pain, the horrors of hell and the consequences of his decision(s)made in life. Sobering thought.

    You don't really have to answer to anybody about this subject on "this side" of eternity, but, you WILL answer to God.  In the FINAL ANALYSIS, nothing else will matter much.

    1. Disappearinghead profile image88
      Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You believe in God's "infinite mercy" yet you believe that mercy is revoked post death for non-Christians. Sounds like finite mercy.

      I too believe in Yashua that He is God the Father come in the flesh to be a sacrificial offering for man's sin. But after 25 years in the evangelical churches I also believe the the Christian religion is a manmade religion that has wraped the truth of Yashua in Roman/Greek paganism with a micro- thin veneer of Judaism.

    2. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
      Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Religion is dead, and you can safely bet that if you live in a developed country, your grandchildren won't follow the religion you are following. Welcome to the modern world.

    3. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      LOL! Hows' that for a "biting comment"? Facts are facts? Judgement Day? Going to hell?

      lol



      My my my, how superior you are to the rest of us with such a saddled responsibility. I do hope you can wield that power much better than your ancestors did when they began the Inquisitions, Crusades and witch burnings, all in an effort to show us the difference between right and wrong.



      Of course, it is taken as an obvious conclusion that all believers believe the very same thing about other religions that you do. That could very well be why your ancestors attempts at showing us the difference between right and wrong failed so miserably.



      No, that is but one of the many such stories about Voltaire conjured up by his enemies. Here are his own words...

      "What is faith? Is it to believe that which is evident? No. It is perfectly evident to my mind that there exists a necessary, eternal, supreme, and intelligent being. This is no matter of faith, but of reason."



      Empty threats. lol

      1. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        @Gary Davis

        You do seem a little over the top there...

  32. starsofeight profile image60
    starsofeightposted 5 years ago

    This is one long-winded gabfest. There are pros and cons on both sides of the issue.

    I submit three pieces of advice for the Christian from the Bible. Consider your actions, your words, and the timing of either:

    Reaching out, whether done well or poorly, still boils down to self-isolation: Proverbs 9:12 "If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it."

    Don't worry about the other guy's business, as it will all come out in the wash. Revelation 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."

    God has his own plan, and can take care of his own business. There will come a time when you should actually no longer evangelize. Get with the program. Hebrews 8:11 "And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."

    This goes out from one Christian to all others. Leave unbelievers alone to un-believe. It will work itself out. In the meantime, small talk will do. Be kind to those who need kindness, help the ones who ask for help, kick only the asses that need kicking -- and just enjoy the camaraderie.

    1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
      Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      @StarsofEight

      Perhaps you're right, but from perspective of statistics, if the religious people don't start answering the questions that are driving people out from religion, it simply won't last.

  33. EmVeeT profile image81
    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago

    Hello Starsofeight,

    Thanks for the commentary. Reading your advice brought a smile to my face. You see, the first three days after I posted the challenge, were spent in intercessory prayer and fasting. I continued to feel a burden for a few particular individuals after that; however, the burden has lifted.

    Your words come in a timely fashion. This is after all, G'D's Battle. The points I made here, remain here, as another wise Believer said: they will remain here "long after" I leave.

    I served my purpose. My part is done. G'D Remains in Control.

    Thanks so very much for your word. I appreciate the gentleness with which you shared the thought. Your point is taken.

    BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME that has no equal, JESUS, THE BRIGHTEST MORNING STAR! THE ROD and STAFF of our faith! Amen.

  34. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago

    That's fair enough Emveet, if you feel like you do not have sufficient knowledge to argue the case against evolution then there is no point in doing so. But forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm new to HubPages), but I thought this Challenge Thread was about proving/disproving God?

    1. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Dearest Philanthropy2012,

      You said: "...if you feel like you do not have sufficient knowledge to argue the case against evolution then there is no point in doing so. But forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm new to HubPages), but I thought this Challenge Thread was about proving/disproving God?"

      Ahh... I see where you're coming from now. Well, Sir, that was quite a strategic move; however, you will not be able to disprove THE EXISTENCE of G'D, based on my inability to generate proofs solid enough to negate your Darwinist theories. You see, I am all too aware that, while I may be ignorant of the subject, in depth, there are so many individuals who would be more than able to refute the claims you make.

      There are countless Scientists, who do in fact, support the Creationist platform. The fact that these have been educationally outcast does not make them wrong. Of course, the social structures surrounding the effort to invalidate their research and besmirch their theories would definitely be your ally.

      There is evidence of an agenda to keep Creationists out of the Academic circles that hope to infuse society with the mindset that Darwinism is the only acceptable origin claim.

      Despite the attempt to keep such Academians out of the educational system, dozens, who could turn your platform around in a heartbeat, basing their knowledge in the areas of Medical Physics, Biochemistry, Chemistry, Immunology, Microbiology, Chemical Engineering, Genetic Engineering, Paleontology, Environmental Science, Biochemical Engineering, Creationist Plant Physiology, Mathematics, Neuroscience and dozens of other expert Scientific fields.

      There have also been hundreds of cases of religious discrimination, utilized as a tool by both the Educational Systems and the Judicial Systems, in league with those who have decided that worldview should lean toward platforms of Evolution, and other non-Creationist views, because it benefits the NWO.

      The fact that I can't string phrases that would cause you to twirl in confusion related to this Darwinistic discussion that was so well intertwined in the "Challenge" bears no weight in the idea that there is no G'D.

      That is just the opinion of those who choose to believe that way.

      You're smooth, Philanthropys2012... a lot smoother than Troubled Man, to be sure; however, you haven't convinced me; and you cannot do so, until you can prove to me HE IS not. Considering my lifelong relationship with HIM, the thousands of subjective reasons associated with my faith, I am more than certain you cannot achieve the goal.

      BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME of THE CREATOR G'D, WHO WAS, WHO IS and WHO FOREVER SHALL BE! YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

      1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
        Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No no what I meant with my last comment was that I thought that someone who is challenging people to prove/disprove God would already know the foundations for the arguments that will be posted against them. I'm not saying that your refusing to continue the argument on the basis of insufficient knowledge to continue is any evidence for the non existence of God.
        I just wanted to ask you why you put up a challenge about it if you knew you'd have to opt out due to insufficient knowledge :L I may however be mistaken as to what this challenge actually is though. Were we supposed to be arguing about something else here?

        As for the creationist scientists. I applaud them, they certainly should not be shunned out of the scientific community because of their religious beliefs. After all, all knowledge is valuable and these scientists could conclusively prove the existence of a God or a particular God.

        But what I'm more interested in is what are their actual arguments against darwinism. I've never seen anyone refute the idea of natural selection (none of your sources did either), just other non-concluded parts of darwinism.
        I myself do not know what darwinists say, I imagine there are many pathways that natural selection has taken it's forms through. It's not a simple process and Is far as I know the only thing in debate is how it actually happened (history is hard to prove of course), as there are several ways it could have. Was there one original organism, several and was it gene mutation or conjugation (sharing of DNA that bacteria use) that allowed for it and in which cases? So many questions, it's back tracking every organisms pass through evolution and there are so many fossils, datings and theories to work through!

        It would be really interesting to read how someone argues that a polar bear being white wasn't a result of natural selection though.

        A much more recent example involves squirrels. During the Victorian Era (19th century), the North American squirrel was introduced to the UK. Since then, these squirrels have outcompeted the food and living space from the native red squirrels. As a result, red squirrel populations have dwindled and we now have to use conservation programmes to keep our red ones from becoming extinct. This is just one of billions of examples of natural selection at work. Without human intervention (if we let nature decide), the grey squirrel will have completely wiped out the red squirrel from the UK.

        Homo-sapiens (us) did a similar thing to the neanderthals :S

        Well Emveet, I actually just joined to try and save atheists the time of debating because there really is no need, I believe that religious people should have their beliefs left alone. Though when there is a chance, I will argue just for the sake of personal development for both parties.

        If you want to know the reasons for why I lost my faith, you can read "6 reasons why religion is declining". The section that starts with "In a world with a God" onwards is the part that disproves the abrahamic God for me.

        And thank you, I wish you or any other religious or non religious person no harm, but I come here to debate!

        Have a nice day,

        Philanthropy,

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Without human intervention, the red squirrel would have had no problem, or am I being obtuse?

          Human intervention is to blame for most of our problems, including the 7 billion souls now residing here on earth.

          We tend (I think) to put too high a regard to humanities survival, and before science intervened, humanity was a fairly constant slow growing virus on the earth, whereas now, we are multiplying like a rampant virus, and like all virii, the cure will be when we consume ourselves by our over reproduction.

          Unless 'nature' (God) intervenes.

        2. LookingForWalden profile image61
          LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Evolution has been scientifically proven in humans as well.
          Certain ethnic backgrounds that have raised cattle have evolved to drink milk outside of their gestational period. 
          Also in Africa some people have evolved to become immune to disease and to survive on a severely limited diet.

          Natural selection is as debatable as the earth being round.

          However, I'm not totally sold on spontaneous generation I must admit.

          1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
            Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I do not see what is so crazy about spontaneous generation, but it took me forever to realise what the situation actually was.
            What would you say to the idea that on Earth we had water, we had the constant moving of water (waves-gravity) and we had eternity (or until the sun burnt out) to do it.

            The estimate is 3.8 billion years for when life started. So 3.8 billion years of trial and error between the waves doesn't sound all too unreasonable? There's certainly a chance it could have happened. Proving that it did is harder though haha.

            1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
              Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Or did you mean spontaneous generation of energy/matter/the big bang/god? At which I have no clue, obviously :S

        3. EmVeeT profile image81
          EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Dearest Philanthropy2012,

          You have not caused me to withdraw. Honestly, the upset I felt was with myself, because I realize that, during the time I allowed myself to lay down upkeep of information relating to Darwinism (something I stopped bothering with in the late 90's) perhaps a lot has been proven, from time to time. However, that wasn't what I saw. When I did make an effort to keep up with the subject, all I kept hearing were theories scored over theories, that were embraced by the Scientific communities, not because they had the potential to be validated, but because this gave science one more opportunity to shut down the case against Creationism.

          But Darwinism isn't the only theory I set down. I don't believe in The Big Bang theory either. I could put all the components of a watch together in a plastic bag, and if I were mechanically inclined, I would create a machine that could shake that bag silly, night and day, 24/7, but even if I bothered, I know that I know under no circumstance would a watch result from the effort.

          Perhaps my rejoinder that the species that have been attributed to the link of evolutionary progress, are not actually additonal pieces of the puzzle, but mere extinct forms of life that have gone unnoticed until recently, may have seemed jeuvenile, but I will not lay aside the idea that what I have said is possible, plausible and perhaps even truer, than any and all of the scientific community's embraced finds.

          Why do I say this? Because (and only because~ for I have no super intelligence... I'm ordinary in this regard, not possessing genius of any sort, but fairing equitably in a society of 'normally informed' human beings) I BELIEVE G'D IS! HE IS!

          Now, I'm not certain what it was that caused you to turn away from G'D... but I am very curious to know what heartache and pain has caused you to decide you want no part of HIM in your future.

          I'm sorry you've been sorely wounded. My experience is that the wounding is very traumatic, profundity of anguish that has the ability to scar in ways the human mind cannot define or perhaps even comprehend. I've been there. Several years ago, when I lost my only sister to pancreatic cancer... She was so healthy otherwise, it took her heart hours of horrific pain to finally stop. I had to leave the hospital room, because I couldn't bear to hear the rasping of breath against her throat as she drowned in her own body fluids.

          To this day, because I have a child who is severly disabled, and declining everyday, I continue to grapple with the forces of life that cause someone you love to deteriorate before your very eyes, to diminish, without recourse, simply because... I cry out to THE G'D I love, daily... praying that HE WILL BE MERCIFUL to her... she is vital. She is oh, so very intelligent! She has wit and beauty. She has an entire future waiting for her contribution to LIFE, not death...

          So, I grapple. I cannot tell you how deeply, how profusely I grapple...

          Still, I know G'D IS G'D! I cannot lay this down. I cannot. I will sooner stop breathing than deny HIS DEITY! HIS WISDOM to be greater and more perfect than any I could consider to possess.

          I could go on, but I think I have said enough to make my point.

          Sir, you are very gracious in having helped me understand you weren't making an attempt to draw me into the Darwinistic conversation as a ploy. I admit that is what I came to believe during the writing of this last post...

          I will be happy to continue interacting with you. However, on the point of Darwinism, though I cannot produce evidence to make my case, let me simply state, G'D IS CREATOR, in as far as I know, believe and will ever concede. Nothing will change this opinion in me, no matter how ignorant some may try to make me sound. The point, therefore, as far as I'm concerned is established.

          I will welcome your continued offer of 'links' in an effort to inform me otherwise, but I sincerely doubt any amount of humanly gathered information will change my view. Why? Simply because of the relationship I have with G'D. HE IS my Friend, my Strength, my Peace in the midst of hurricane heartaches and tornado trials. HE IS, and has been for over three decades now, my SOURCE of LIFE, my REFUGE, the VERY BLOOD that courses through my veins.

          As for 'The Challenge'... yes, it is something very different. And yes, you have every right to expect me to be prepared to debate with others, if I have placed myself on such a public platform. Please though, don't mind me if I am only human and cannot withstand the onslaught of every arrow whipping in my direction! smile

          BLESSINGS to you, Sir... (I continue to consider you a gentleman, not a lady... a fine gentleman in fact...) in THE NAME of a MASTERFUL CREATOR and WONDERFUL KINDRED SPIRIT! YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No, there isn't, not a single person, that is false.



        No, there aren't countless Scientists supporting Creationism, that is absolutely false.



        No, the fact that they are wrong makes them wrong.



        No, there are no conspiracies to keep Creationists out of Academic circles, entirely false.



        So, instead of learning something about evolution in order to "twirl us in confusion", you post false statements to support your beliefs.



        And, that is the dishonesty of believers who refuse to learn.

  35. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago

    Of course if the grey squirrel was not taken to Britain and Europe in the first place, the two wouldn't have had to fight. But the actual idea that one type of squirrel is more fit to survive in an environment than another type is all that is natural selection. That's it.

    Although I take your point AguaSilver, I would say that we would have no problem with catering for 7 billion people. Whether we should or not is another question, it might be a lot safer to have a steady 5 billion perhaps. Half of the world population lives in 2 countries mind, there are a lot of underpopulated countries like Australia. China's population is slowing at least. I don't think that we'll have a problem with our population, I imagine there will be child birth restrictions again like there was in China. Humans can think ahead, and If we begin to see problems we'll all make the effort, if not, some of us will end up dying. Not all of us though.

    The effects will be stronger on the other animals however. If Global Warming will continue, It will be the animals who aren't adapted for a new climate who are going to suffer.

    That again is natural selection, specimens of animals who can survive hotter climates will live to reproduce and those who won't, won't :S

  36. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago

    Thank you Emveet,

    Okay that's fair enough, I cannot keep badgering on about evolution, It is just something that you need to spend 20 minutes on to get the general idea of. You'll see what I mean when I say Evolution is both fact and theory. (that's if you ever find the time to research it).

    And as for my personal beliefs, I was raised a Christian, and at school we were taught both science (which taught evolution as part of the syllabus), christianity, and Islam and touched upon other religions, (we are very multicultural in the UK). Science's evolution made more sense to me at the time and then I thought about the possibility of how an all loving God could not exist if he had the power to make us without the possibility of pain and knew that it would happen (but let's not get into that, I've written an entire hub on it). Hence, I dropped all religious notions and became a man of science. Easy peasy, I had no overwhelming need to defend my religious upbringing at school, I soaked in all of the information I could and then decided. But that's just me.

    have a good evening,

    Philanthropy.

    1. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey there, Philanthropy,

      I've just read your "6 Reasons..." Hub.

      I see your choice to not believe in G'D was not a result of an excruciating circumstance. Forgive me for assuming it might be. That is what I hear from many individuals with whom I converse.

      I'm glad though. Pain and suffering are quite the task masters, extreme, relentless. I've endured much of both.

      However, in my experiences, G'D has been a SHELTER,  a BULWARK, a RESTING PLACE. Philanthropy, it hurts me to think you simply just looked the other way and walked away from THE G'D Who Made you, Loves you and Longs to Save you from the fluctuating storms of life.

      You will experience many, unfortunately. Some, you will find, have the power to grind you down, almost snuffing you out. I don't wish this on you. However, I know this is a fact of life.

      Now, I didn't comment on your Hub Page, because you received so many other, rather interesting and diverse responses by both Believers and non-Believers. There was one, that when I read it, I thought: ah... finally... This response referred to Satan.

      You proceeded to ask questions of the individual that I don't think were addressed. You asked if Satan was the fallen archangel, Michael. No. Lucifer was his name, son of the morning.

      You asked (a paraphrase here) over and over... if there is such a person as G'D, then why would HE Create a world where there is so much disease, so much pain, so many diverse and horrendous measures of suffering?

      Have you ever considered, HE ALREADY DID. This was/is THE KINGDOM of G'D, The Place HE DWELLS, where HE IS THE LIGHT, and SOURCE of all...

      Have you ever considered that the world of men is not HIS First and only Creation? I personally believe HE COULD and more than likely has created life on other planets. HE Has the capacity... my particular belief is that those planets have nothing to do with us... they are even outside our galaxy... however, that is another area of thought none can make any comments about except imaginary ones, since there is no proof. Besides, I don't want to veer from the point I wanted to make here...

      As for the comments I made relating to Satan, well, that is an area of study I am well versed in. Some call it, "Satanology". Others call it "Demonology". My particular area of study has always revovled around Spiritual Warfare, which encompasses both.

      As for responding to the questions you had for Seek-and-Find, on your commentary board, I could probably answer them all for you. Problem there is... I've already spent way too much time on this Forum over the last couple of days.

      I'm home sick with a sore throat, after singing all weekend... and I seriously wanted to use the time to write more of my book, a fictitious novel based on the precepts revolving around Spiritual Warfare, having a demon as my main character... (I plan on adding up to ten thousand words to that plot today and tomorrow~ so I won't be around much...) However...

      I will make an effort to address the subject of Demonology/Satanology on one of my Hub Pages in the near future. Perhaps, if you choose to consider the plausibilities attached to what I will share, you may come to open your objectivity regarding THE LIVING G'D!

      BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME of our MOST SOVEREIGN, OMNIPOTENT, LOVING and MERCIFUL KING, YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.

  37. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago

    Okay Emveet, I understand, I think sometimes big questions such as the ones you saw need a hub to answer them. That way the answers will be more visible for everyone, and if they are good they will be graded as such for everyone else to appreciate. It's generally more productive that way and since you're writing a book I understand that you don't want to be spending time on other things when you know you could be bettering the book. All fair and well, make sure to message me in the future after your hub is complete. Thank you

    Philanthropy,

  38. EmVeeT profile image81
    EmVeeTposted 5 years ago

    I will Philanthropy... message you. In the meantime, if I can just keep my nose out of this Forum, I may make some headway with my more pressing work. smilesmile At least, I keep telling myself that. LOL...

    BLESSINGS to you. I pray you enjoy your day, receive and give some amazing responses and will take a moment to check out the actual Challenge, considering I posted it, because I was intensely irritated by some truly dsparaging comments made on other Forums in the first place...

    smilewink

    1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
      Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      @EmVeeT

      STOP GETTING DISTRACTED! big_smile

      Thank you for your time and effort to help out this old bean smile

      Best of luck with your book(s)!
      You could hub yourself a review of it wink

  39. Don Crowson profile image78
    Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago

    So tell me troubled man, how did the two sexes evolve.  At the same time? or separately?

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So tell me Don, what do you know about evolution?

      1. Don Crowson profile image78
        Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I know that that all life began in water and the transition from water to land is not really explanable.  I know that forensic evidence is the only way you can construct what might have happened and you cannot repeat any experiments.  i know there are as many gaps in evolution that cannot be explained.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So, next to nothing, then?

          1. Don Crowson profile image78
            Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I know as much or more than you do.  You are accepting evolution by faith.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol

              No Don, I accept evolution by understanding, not faith or magic.

        2. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
          Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Don, as far as I am aware, evolution itself is a fact. By evolution, I mean natural selection. (see above for a snazzy example of red and grey squirrels, perhaps just Ctrl+F "squirrels"?)

          The history of evolution is not yet conclusive, and this is where all the debate occurs.

          1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
            Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry, here is a good explanation of what evolution is ^^ It's basically the idea that animal populations change over times to suit their environment (or if not die) and I don't know anyone who could disagree with such a concept yikes

            http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evoluti … ition.html

            1. Don Crowson profile image78
              Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I would agree with that concept.  Things are always changing.  But evolving from one life form to another is ridiculous.  there are no in-between ancesstors; therefore, animals being created and changing over time is a definition of evolution with which no one would disagree.  After all that is what the evidence really indicates.

          2. Don Crowson profile image78
            Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Natural selection is misinterpreted.  What Darwin meant was that certain  speices had traits that protected them in their environment rather than survival of the fittest.  The king of the jungle was not what Darwin had in mind.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Where did they get those traits, Don?

    2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
      Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If you truly want the answer to that, you only have to study other species. Organisms that self multiply, plants that self fertilise. Life forms that currently have male and female counterparts, need to mate and so they evolve together since the DNA is constantly being exchanged. Men cannot evolve without women evolving too.

      1. Don Crowson profile image78
        Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And your argument does not prove evolution any more than it does creation.  In fact when I say that God took Adam's DNA and created Eve, I am as correct scienti9fically as you are. We are both making suppositions and the proof is not available.

        1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
          Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I guess you never went to a musuem and saw the mountains of evidence there is for evolution. Not only does the evidence for evolution debunk the whole adam an eve story, the age of the earth ALSO disproves the bible since the world is not 6000 years old. It is billions of years old.

          Your lack of knowledge of the fact of evolution does not make it true.

          There is tonnes of evidence for evolution. Even the catholic church has had to admit that evolution happens.

          You can deny it all you want. Noone will believe you without evidence especially with all the evidence to the contrary.

          1. Don Crowson profile image78
            Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, you are the one who says the Bible says that the earth is 6000 years old,  That shows your ignorance of what the Bible says.  It says plainly, "In the beginning God created the heavesn and the earth."  did you notice the period?  that may have been 6000years acco4rding to you , but it says to me it could bhave been billions or trilions.

            And if you want to define evolution as "change" no one would argue with you.  But that change is adaptation.  Not changing from a monkey to a man.

            And in the case of evidence, you should show me those in-between ancestors you claim exist.  Or do you relly believe they exist?  where are they?

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol That is not what happened, Don.

              1. Don Crowson profile image78
                Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Well, tell me, what happened?  And how do you know?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Don, both monkeys and humans evolved from the same ancestor. I know that because that's what the fossil record shows us.

            2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
              Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If you add up all the begats and the times given in the bible you arrive at a figure of 6000 years. Actually a bishop made that same calculation a few hundred years ago but thanks for calling me ignorant. I hope you're a fan of irony.

              As for your claim that lifeforms evolve but dont change to other species well that is just ridiculous.

              Even a child can understand that if something changes a small amount every single year, after millions of years it will be very different from what it was originally.

              I dont mean to be insulting but your claim is just so damn ridiculous.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, you are using magic to explain that, not science.

          1. Don Crowson profile image78
            Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The scienctific method dictates that you rep[eate experiments with the same result.  that is science.  Magic is sayin g that one thing becomes another without any in-between.  You lack an understanding of science.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Don, injecting gods into your explanations is magic, not science.

              1. Don Crowson profile image78
                Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The difference is that you believe everything just happened.  Bi Bag.  Is that science or magic? Or some little cell began developing and it evolved in to thousands of species.  Isa that science or magic?  You must conclude that things just happen or there is a creator?  Logice would say there is a creator rather than things just happening. 
                Can you show any evidence of those random things hapening today?  What are they?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Not really. I understand how everything could have happened. I also understand that it could have happened in a great variety of ways, too. And, it's all based on science.

                   

                  It's all science, Don. No magic required. No invisible beings needed.



                  No Don, logic would not say that. Sorry.
                   


                  The formation of stars is a good one. We can observe how a huge cloud of gas can form a star simply due to gravity by observing millions of stars in their various states of evolution.

                  smile

                  1. Don Crowson profile image78
                    Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, if you know a lot of ways it could have happened, you are not being very scientific, are you?

  40. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago

    Guys turn it down a notch! You will catch more bees with honey than with vinegar! You should both know that possessing knowledge of evolution does not make you superior, it makes you lucky perhaps.

    What man would turn around and say "actually, you know what, you were right all along" in this situation after being spoken to in such a way? Not many.

    1. Don Crowson profile image78
      Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well, I am waiting for real evidence.  Evolution is not a fact.  It is not a real scientific theory. It is a fraud. No in-between ancestors.

      1. LookingForWalden profile image61
        LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You lack a fundamental understanding of how almost impossible it is for a fossil to be created.

        I'm not sure if your aware of the 96%  similarity  between humans and chimpanzees.

        1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
          Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Let's hold some horses here. Don Crowson, what do you mean by "in-between ancestors"?

          Do you mean like homo erectus and homo neanderthalensis? Ancestors of which species ??

          1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
            Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            One more thing which I believe both parties should understand:

            Evolution, the theory, has been proven to be a fact. By the theory, I mean natural selection in which the fittest survive to their environment. This is the part of evolution which has been tested on repeatedly to find the same result. Organisms with particular traits will survive particular environments better than others.

            After the science, comes the history. Evolutionary descent, or otherwise Common Descent

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent

            The common descent is the part that may be considered as "not science" because no repeated tests are involved (other than repeated carbon, and other forms of dating).

            At this point, you are making historical discoveries by finding new fossils etc to fit the incredibly complicated puzzle of common descent. Science comes back into it when we have to devise theories as to which exact molecular change caused the difference in the genome of the old organism to become the new one. That involves a lot of tests obviously and that again can be said to be science, if you take the need to test things as part of the definition of science.

            Basically, what I'm trying to say is, the actual science behind evolution has been proven (you can see it in squirrels!), it's natural selection. But the history of how it happened has not been conclusively proven. However, there is (I would say) irrefutable proof (but there'll always be one person who disagrees) that for instance horses (see the link) have evolved from previous versions of horse-like organisms. There are many other success stories. That is why it is very promising that other organisms have done the same thing. The science is there, the theory has been proven true, we have seen it work in real life. We just need fossils to concretely say once and for all whether it happened or not for each organism and it's path.

            Have a good evening everyone,

            Philanthropy,

          2. Don Crowson profile image78
            Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, I mean that missing link that scientists continue to seek to find.  There was that Piltdown man that fooled the scientist.  and if you are talking about all of those things you see in the museum, that should be the missing link shouldn't it? So how were the conditions just right to form all of those and not conditions for the missing link?

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Don, the term you're looking for is "Transistional Fossil" - 'missing link' is not used as it is often misleading and inaccurate.

              Here's some good explanations...

              http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html



              Not really, scientists considered it highly controversial until it was eventually exposed as a fraud.

            2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
              Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hominidae
              Homininae
              Hominini
              Hominina
              Ardipithecus
              Australopithecus afarensis
              Homo habilis
              Homo erectus
              Homo sapiens are modern humans

              Well isnt that funny? 8 different links from prehistoric apes to modern humans. Dont you look the fool.

              Oh wait, you're going to say where are the links between the 8 that have already been found aren't you?

              What if people find 16 links? You'll ask for the 16 links between them wont you?

              Stop deliberatley being stupid and wasting everyones time in asking them to school you on evolution. Go and read a book like the rest of us and stop making yourself look like the ignorant fool. Schoolkids know this. Why dont you?

              1. LookingForWalden profile image61
                LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree it would be prudent for you and/ or anyone who wants to debate evolution to actually read On the Origin of Species instead of getting info off Wikipedia and creationist sites.

                1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Origin of species is an awesome book for the time it was written. Especially if you try to place yourself in Darwins shoes and the time period in which he wrote it.

                  Of course, now we have the internet, which is a fantastic source of information, there is no reason why we shouldn't use it.

                  1. Don Crowson profile image78
                    Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    We also have molecular biology that allows scientists to see things that Darwin couldn't see.  and they are proving that Darwion was not exactly right in his guesses.

                    As one molecular biologists stated that it didn't occur to him that evolution could e wrong. Now there are real scientists for you.  they simply accept what another one says.

              2. Don Crowson profile image78
                Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Well, it is the evolutionist who continues to look for missing link. He has known about those 8 so-call men(sic) since day one.  so if I am the fool, why are they still looking for the missing link.  Perhaops you should tell them that they already have their links so they can quit looking. Does that make sense to you now?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks for not reading my post about the missing link, Don. Please feel free to continue using that misleading and inaccurate term even though it is not used.

                2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  People are inquisitive. It is human nature. For every person that doesnt want to look anymore, there will be another that does want to look for whatever reason, fame, fortune, or just because they want to sdiscover something never seen before.

                  As for your referral to "junk science". What you are referring to is not science at all and bears no relevance to anything.

                  Darwin does not have to be 100% right about everything or everything is untrue. He may have ben wrong about a few things, but the theory of evolution has been proven to be fact day after day.

                  I gave you EIGHT links from ape to man. How many do you need? A hundred? A thousdand? A million?

                  I get the distinct impression that if there were a million links you would simply bleat "where are the missing million links inbetween those million fossils you already found".

                  I guess some people never learn either due to inability or unwillingness.

                  (Im talking about you by the way.)

        2. Don Crowson profile image78
          Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I understand that conditions have to be just right, or you will not have a fossilized creation. Probably a near ice-age condition.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        On what do you base those conclusions if not an understanding of evolution?

        1. Don Crowson profile image78
          Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          How are you defining evolution?  Is it adaptation that animale and plants adapt to their environment?  Hey, i=f that's true, we have no disagreement.  Bur if you think that there is a half man and half monkey somehere in the mix, we are not in agreement.

          Evolutionst have been look for that in-between ancestror for years.  Piltdown man and Lucy are two of their endeavors to proove the half man and half money creation?  so are there any of those in existence?  None on r3ecord.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not. Evolution is already defined.



            Don't you believe there was a talking donkey in the Book of Numbers?



            I really have no idea what you're talking about, Don.

            1. Don Crowson profile image78
              Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Man adapts to his environment.  That does not mean that he evolves.  Evolving would mean a complete change from something into something else. Like from a monkey into a man.

              1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I think that's metamorphosis! Evolution is defined by progressing in baby steps "The gradual development of something"

            2. Don Crowson profile image78
              Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well, of course Numbers says there was a talking donkey.  But did you hear him/her speak?

          2. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
            Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            But Don! You must understand,  as a rule of thumb, things only change species when they cease to be able to make fertile offspring with the older organism. If a monkey and a human could make fertile children together, we would be considered one species. Thus, the only real change that has to happen for a new species to evolve is to do with chromosomes.

            Thus an ape can evolve directly into a human with absolutely no link in-between. All it would mean is that the ape exhibited many human characteristics, acquired an extra chromosome, had children, those children go on to breed with other apes who have an extra chromosome, and then THEIR children will have 2 more chromosomes, marking a new species, us big_smile

            1. Don Crowson profile image78
              Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Have we chabged from science to science fiction?  sounds like it?

              1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No no here is the science!

                http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008 … e_numb.php

                From step 1 right through to the end!

              2. LookingForWalden profile image61
                LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What evidence do you have that evolution is not real or valid?
                It sounds like you just cannot accept it because it conflicts with your beliefs, which is fine and I respect that but you shouldn't  try to argue science you haven't read or understand.

                1. Don Crowson profile image78
                  Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey, I studied evolution in college as many others have also studied that subject.  When I questioned my teacher about life moving from the water to the land, she said there were as many gaps in evolution as there are in swiss cheese.  Does not matter what I believe or don't believe.  What =matters are those ghaps. They are simple speculation.

                  Darwin could not see the things that we see now.  And as scientific theory is defined in the good old daysa, we simply confirmend results of experiments and if they consistently gave the same results, we had  the hypotheses.  Many more experiments giving the same results resulted in a theory.  But you can't do that with evolution because you cannot repeatt experiments  Therefore, the only way to test evolution is forensically. And with the absence of real evidence, it is speculation.

                  Check the internet.  Scientists do disagree with evolution as a fact.  Except when you define it as change, you cannot doubt that things do change. What other conclusions are drawn from that is speculation.

                  1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
                    Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I have checked the internet, no scientist disputes that some changes are as a result of genetic mutation caused by radiation from the sun or error in dna cloning.

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Then, why would your posts indicate you don't know anything about evolution?

                     

                    Really? Normally, a college teacher would just answer the question. Perhaps, the teacher did answer, but you heard something entirely different.



                    "One of the most important experiments in evolution is going on right now in a laboratory in Michigan State University. A dozen flasks full of E. coli are sloshing around on a gently rocking table. The bacteria in those flasks has been evolving since 1988--for over 44,000 generations. And because they've been so carefully observed all that time, they've revealed some important lessons about how evolution works."

                    http://scienceblogs.com/loom/2008/06/02 … lution.php



                    Yes, we can find those scientists, but we discover that they really have no evidence to refute evolution. Often, they are just brainwashed believers trying to promote their religious beliefs.

                2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I dont understand why you respect that. I find it down right rude and insulting.

  41. 60
    Rabgixposted 5 years ago

    It's a real shame that people are this willingly psychotic

    1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
      Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's a real shame that you didn't post your own views wink

    2. Don Crowson profile image78
      Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's a greater shame that science is getting a bad rap with junk science.

      1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
        Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I hope that's not in response to my comment, I maintain the scientific validity of what I said above ^^

        1. Don Crowson profile image78
          Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, it wasn't in response to your comment.  It is a general statement that what passes for science is not always real science. There is a junk science that results from a lack of the use of scientific methods.

          1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
            Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Like I said half an hour ago. If it doesnt use scientific methods then it isnt science is it?

            1. Don Crowson profile image78
              Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I agree with you  100%

              1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Then why even mention it?

                1. Don Crowson profile image78
                  Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Because it is impossible to use the scientific method with evolution.  You cannot repeat experiments.

                  1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                    Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That doesnt make any sense. You mentioned "junk science" that isnt really scence at all as an argument to back up your claim that you cannot repeatedly test evolution?

                    Just so you know, scientists created some RNA strands and OBSERVED them replicating, mutating and evolving.

                    You cannot create evolution, but you can damn well observe it and that has been done many many times.

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Son, there are and have been long term evolutionary experiments conducted. One such experiment involved lizards being introduced on a Caribbean Island, which they've been studying for 14 years.

                    Sorry to say you're wrong about that. We can find lots of experiments being conducted. And, they are repeatable.

    3. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Greetings to everyone who is participating in this discussion.

      I would like to say a few things.

      First of all... I would like to thank those of you who made fun of my supposed 'ignorance' relating to Darwinism because the mockery compelled me to investigate the topic further. Of course, I've only spent a few hours investigating, but for now, I consider, as I have followed the train of thought continuing in this thread, to be enough.

      Here's what i know:

      Those of you who continue to insist "Darwinism is a fact" are in fact, not supported by Science in your statements, but by a few laws that have made a mockery of the study.

      Why do I say this?

      In 1995, an association called The American National Association of Biology of Teachers (NABT), put forth an 'official position'. That position is now considered in North Amercia to be the agreed stance of major science organizations and educational institutions.

      The position plainly says:

      "The diversity of life on earth is the outcome of evolution: an unsupervised, impersonal, unpredictable, and natural process of temporal descent with genetic modification that is affected by natural selection, chance, historical contingencies, and changing environments."

      This quote was obtained from the following link:

      http://www.veritas-ucsb.org/library/bat … ching.html

      Essentially, what the Association says about evolution, is that this subject needs to be taught to our children, in schools beginning at the Elementary level through to University levels compromising the ethics of Science by stating  that even though this can never be proven, as man, according to this theory is the product of the unknown;  this postion shall not only be accepted by the Scientific community, but shall be the only one accepted by the Scientific community.

      Now, I could go on and on and on here. I won't even begin to place a portion of what I've discovered through my research.... there is so much.

      However, I will state this:

      So far, every defence against Creationism has stated that those of us who believe in it, refuse to admit the truth because we are indoctrinated to believe G'D IS CREATOR. If G'D is CREATOR, then G'D HAS A POSITION in the minds of men... and will be harder to deny. However, if G'D IS not The Creator, as the supporters of 'evolution' so adeptly have eliminated the need to establish, then G'D can be eliminated from every equation.

      Now, as I have studied Biblical Prophecies, Apologetics and more for decades, I am secure in saying, that this formula of eliminating G'D from the minds of men, and deceiving the masses into believing they are more intelligent if they follow the false indoctrination implied by those Scientists, who, have essentially sold their souls to elitists who want to control... yes...control the masses, is the ploy of one Satan (the arch-enemy of G'D), who must prepare earth for the End Times, a season of the World, when his NWO is established. This, in order for him to create his one world government, and his one world religion, (something the Book of Revelation was very clear and concise in predicting all the way back circa 95 A.D.). I know that you will all make fun of me for stating this... and you are free to do so.

      However, I am so much happier now tha tI understand the premise upon which you have positioned your heartfelt insistance. Evolution is not a fact. It is a deception meant to be an illusory fact, in order to placate the masses, make them feel strong in their decisions to walk away from G'D, because G'D is the only ONE Who Continues to STAND for TRUTH.

      Of course, those of you who are so quick to call Creationists indoctrinated fools (even if you do so indirectly cannot admit that this sort of "position" taken by Scientific Institutions of power, influence and financial means... is in fact, the reason... and only reason any of you feel the right to call 'evolution' fact.

      The point here is simple and straightforward:

      Some have asked Creationists to prove that evolution is not fact. This is how it works. There are hundreds of millions and even billions of human beings buried beneath the surface of the earth, because over time, their deceased remains have collected in graves, as we now know them and in other forms, since ancient history didn't provide pine boxes to protect the human carcass.

      However, if the theories of evolution were in any, way, shape or form true, then by the same token, there should be HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of deteriorated remains, or "fossils" providing ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE of the links between the one celled organism and the entity we now know as HUMANITY.

      You see, beloved 'Evolution' followers.... if the only way Science has been able to substantiate the 'theories' elistists want so desperately to indoctrinate in our young people and in those who consider themselves the 'intelligentia' of our day, is to show one fossilized entity, demark it as a plausible link, drawing conclusions that somehow that link is in any way, shape or form related to humans, simply because the position of hired Scientists who have buried their academic integrities in cement, simply because they want to be known in the world as men of Science, when all they are is 'puppets' dangled on the strings of those who can afford to silence, support and stuff them with their requirements... then this world is on its way to collapse.

      Of course, those of us who know that this is not Science, this is a lie, also know that the world is on its way to collapse. However, that collapse will be controlled and it will be geared toward eliminating certain aspects of society as we know it, including elimination of those who reject the [i]common world view, because The New World Order cannot allow those of us who truly do think for ourselves to do so, without blacklisting us as 'troublemakers'.

      I'm sorry for all of you who have considered yourselves so free... so intelligent... so practical and wise. Meanwhile, you've been led by the nose, using invisible thread... fed with deception that feeds the ego, telling you, [i]you are so right, but only because you are doing what those who have a NWO in preparatory stages want.

      G'D BLESS you all, as you continue on this road to annihilism. Slowly but surely, that which was written in The Book of Revelation is coming to pass.

      Much of what we have already seen happening to our economy, to our food production, to our social structures, orginally intended to protect the people governmental bodies were created to protect... but that those same establishments have now come together to dumbdown... should have already produced enough evidence that anyone who still has a free thought left in his/her head should be alerted.

      In other words, when you accuse someone of not knowing what they are talking about... be wise enough to check on the evidence. I never said I knew everything, but I know enough to know that what I believe [i] is and continues to be FREE THOUGHT. I am not indoctrinated.

      ... perhaps you should rethink your position if you are a believer in 'Darwinism".

      Truly, I wrote such a lengthy post, because I am in the middle of writing a book. I don't know if I'll be back, but I presume this post will receive a lot of flack....

      So be it... perhaps you can instigate me into discovering even more information about how the world of elitists (who want the masses controlled) is defining other institutions, other establishments, other aspects of necessity for life, in order to achieve their goals!

      BLESSINGS to  you all, IN THE MIGHTY, MAJESTIC and MOST SOVEREIGN NAME of JESUS, THE MESSIAH! THE ONE WHO WAS, WHO IS, WHO FOREVER SHALL BE, CREATOR, L'RD and KING! Amen.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I suggest you give up studying evolution at this point.  It's obvious you do not understand half of what you are stating about the subject.  Go to your church and rely on the words of your preacher as you've always done.  Don't try to understand that which you are incapable of.  Bible belt Baptist, I bet. smile

        1. LookingForWalden profile image61
          LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Nobody but evangelical fundamentalists really question evolution.
          Nobody but them have everything to lose from it.
          If the earth is older than 6000 years it ruins their theory that the bile is correct in every literal sense.
          That's why they fight tooth and nail over it.
          Unfortunately while we can use the worlds educational institutions as our sources,
          They are limited to a book written in the bronze age.
          Fish in a barrel.
          Also, at the risk of sounding haughty, there is a gallop poll which shows a correlation between education and the belief in evolution.
          I used it in a research paper.

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So, you admit you know nothing about evolution; spend an hour or two searching for religious sites that refute it, then come back to say those who support it have sold their souls? After a couple of hours of biased research? How, exactly, do you expect people to take your conclusions? Do you expect to be taken seriously?

        1. EmVeeT profile image81
          EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Emile R,

          I didn't say I know nothing at all about evolutioin, what I said was that it's been years since I delved into the study. However, i don't call myself an expert in the field.

          The statement I posted is the platform of The National Association of Biology Teachers. The platform plainly states that 'evolution is to be taught, despite the fact that evolution is described as "an unsupervised, impersonal, unpredictable and natural process of temporal descent with genetic modification that is affected by natural selection, chance historical contingencies and changing environments... but no solid evidence as is necessary for normal scientific applications.

          I didn't make this up. This is the Positonal Statement.

          What about the statement is unclear? There is NO DIRECT link between the one celled organism and humanity throughout the course of hundreds of millions of years worth of fossilized geological evidence, other than a few/couple of 'articles' that have been deemed as such, with much controversy. Paleontolgists have failed to establish evidence pertaining to ancestoral transitions?

          The Science I learned in school required ordered experimentation, with a hypothesis, observations and the provision of details relating to the purpose of the experiment, the conclusions, the variables that were present and a few other structures; however, these were repeated over and over and over, until the variable were discarded and the results/conclusions could be repeated over and over, creating a basis for a solid proof.

          Nobody has to take me seriously. What I am saying is that no one has the right to call 'fact' that which is philosophy. That is what has happened with the theories of evolution. These theories benefit a segment of society. Therefore, they have been embraced, adopted, supported, furthered, while all other theories and/or alternatives have been discarded, and/or suppressed.

          I am not an Evolutionary Scientist, however, there are hundreds of Scientists who, having to suffer relegation to outcast, for their lack of compromise have decided to accept being an outcast, rather than being the puppet of a system that dictates, indirectly, insidiously and most intelligently, the premise by which the citizens of the world will be nurtured.

          That is what I'm saying. You don't have to agree. Obviously, you have no desire to consider there are options that, seemingly have nothing to do with 'religion' but have everything in fact, to do with religion.

          Calling itself irreligious, this science you defend is compromising the evidence you accept as true. No one can prove otherwise to you. You have to desire the truth yourself. If you consider that I will gain one particle of strength whether you choose to accept what I have shared with you, or not, then you are wrong.

          I don't live to be right. I desire to know what is true. By passing Evolution off as a 'fact', despite the compromises made in order to do so, and the facetious platforms that will be erected in order to accomplish the feat, people will believe the deception. This isn't the first, or only deception that people have believed. History is full of lies, and yes, many have been attached to 'religion'.

          I don't adhere to any of the lies that have propelled individuals to commit heinous crimes in the name of 'religion'. That's why I don't follow a 'church' structure as such.

          Emile, I don't expect you to see anything my way. Perhaps though, you might think about what actually is; and then come to your own conclusions. That is my standard. I believe no one. I check for myself.

          If what I posted happened to be linked onto a 'creationist' site... oh well... the fact is, the Organization I hoped to retrieve the information from only had archives dating back as far as 1997. Otherwise, I would have used their own website for the quote. (Although, in thinking I could get my hands on [i]their actually site sharing this information would really have been hoping too much.)

          Greetings to you, In THE NAME of my SHEPHERD, CHAMPION, my FRIEND! YESHUA of Nazareth. Amen.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think I understand where you are coming from. You're afraid. You believe that to accept truths that we have found about the history of this planet will negate beliefs you hold as truths. You think facts stand in defiance of God.

            I don't really understand the lack of faith. If you believe God created everything wouldn't arguing against hard evidence be the same as arguing against God? Why would a creator create a reality that you were supposed to pretend wasn't here? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

      3. amymarie_5 profile image86
        amymarie_5posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So in other words, I am supposed to listen to you, who has only done a few internet searches in a mere few hours (with a closed mind) than to scientists who have dedicated their lives to science?  Not to mention that the bible offers absolutely no proof to any of its claims.  You refuse to see this.  You refuse to see the many reasons why evolution is taught.  Its actually quite sad.

        Of course, if youd rather believe god made man of dirt and a woman from his rib and that a talking snake in a garden convinced a silly woman to eat an apple thus giving god no choice but to punish mankind for all of eternity, thats your choice.  An omniscient god that saw this coming! Kind of unfair, considering god also created that evil talking snake.  No offense but if you take this into consideration and the fact that god also drowned the entire world except for noah and a few animals, your god makes hitler look like an amateur.

        Ever hear the song Gutless by Hole?  It has this great line: " I really don't miss God, but I sure do miss santa claus." Pretty much sums up my feelings.

        1. EmVeeT profile image81
          EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Dearest AmyMarie,

          You said: So in other words, I am supposed to listen to you, who has only done a few internet searches in a mere few hours (with a closed mind) than to scientists who have dedicated their lives to science? 

          You are free to believe anything or anyone you choose. I have not imposed my beliefs on you. What I have done is stated the platform that is used as the standard for American Education, as Positionally stated by the authorities that make those rules.

          You seem intelligent enough to pick it up from there. You don't need my help. You have made clear what you think of G'D and The Bible. Yours, is the liberty to believe what you will, without reprecussion or mockery.

          You said:   Not to mention that the bible offers absolutely no proof to any of its claims. 

          That isn't true. However, again, it's what you have chosen to believe. I will not impinge my faith on you. And,  you may think me sad, but in actuality, I'm quite happy. I don't let myself be dumbed down by what elitists present as truth for the masses, while making every effort to distract me from anything that might give me the power to think for myself.

          You said: Of course, if youd rather believe god made man of dirt and a woman from his rib and that a talking snake in a garden convinced a silly woman to eat an apple thus giving god no choice but to punish mankind for all of eternity, thats your choice. 

          Yes. I most certainly do prefer to believe this. Why? Because I actually have a relationship with the G'D you don't believe in. HE's not a figment of my imagination either. Can I prove it to you? HE Can. But will HE? Only HE Knows when and if that moment will come... and that was precisely what this entire Challenge was about in fact.. not about Evolution.

          You said: An omniscient god that saw this coming! Kind of unfair, considering god also created that evil talking snake.  No offense but if you take this into consideration and the fact that god also drowned the entire world except for noah and a few animals, your god makes hitler look like an amateur.

          My G'D is AMAZING. Albeit, HE IS PURE, HOLY, RIGHTEOUS and POWERFUL. I'll be interested to see if you will make the "'making hitler look like an amateur" statement to HIS Face, should you be judged for it one day. But my hope is you won't. My hope is you'll come to know HIM as I know HIM, and you'll realize that all the pronouncements you've made against HIM are actually lies that 'talking snake' has tethered to your brain, so you would blame G'D, hate G'D and to his delight, never come to KNOW G'D.

          I've never heard of your song. This I do know though: If I were to fall out of relationship with G'D, for whatever reason... well...let me just say, I'll be glad to say 'later' to this world a minute before I would ever deny HIM... and by the assault against HIM on this thread alone, I may well have to do so, at some point in the near future.

          G'D BLESS you, AmyMarie, in THE NAME of YESHUA, my STRENGTH and SHIELD in a flying arrows world...

          ... I'm not sure why I like you, but I do. Thanks for your comments. smile

          1. Randy Godwin profile image95
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The mere fact you think there is enough water on earth to cover the entire planet tells much about your ability to reason.  There is only so much water on this planet and simply not enough to flood the world.  But supposing by some wild stretch of the imagination the earth was flooded, so where did the water drain off to after the event was over?  Your answer will tell much about your ability to use reason and logic.  That is, if you are able to give a coherent answer at all.

            My god Moe blesses you!

      4. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well you surely stirred the pot with this post, well done, the demons are buzzing around our resident secularist crew and the agitation is great to watch.

        Loved the quote by the educationalists, and your logic is impeccable, no wonder they have all gone on the attack, you have lifted the lid off the ants nest, and they are all milling around trying to see who let in the light.

        Hopefully they will not scurry back to the lower depths of the ants nest to escape the revelation.

        "Essentially, what the Association says about evolution, is that this subject needs to be taught to our children, in schools beginning at the Elementary level through to University levels compromising the ethics of Science by stating  that even though this can never be proven, as man, according to this theory is the product of the unknown;  this postion shall not only be accepted by the Scientific community, but shall be the only one accepted by the Scientific community. "

        Love it, no wonder they are in a frenzy! smile

        God truly does work in mysterious ways, glad He sent you here to us!

        1. amymarie_5 profile image86
          amymarie_5posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Apparently you didn't read what us heathens wrote. I didn't write out of anger. Im actually quite amused at the absurdity of the "research" done that I couldn't help but comment. smile

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Same here, but they just love a chance to talk about the demons.

          2. EmVeeT profile image81
            EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            AmyMarie, Emile,

            Please don't take the 'demon' remark as directed at you. That isn't the case. Your comments and input are welcome here. I appreciate the fact that I'm not the only female in the discussion; although, I never do like being alone on the front lines...

            Since we see things so diversely, that can't be helped, but I do want you to know nobody thinks you are evil... not by a longshot.

            Accept my apologies, if that remark in some way seemed directed at you... I am certain it was not... smile

            BLESSINGS to you, both.
            In JESUS' NAME.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          In other words, if your brain is working, it is being controlled by invisible goblins. lol

  42. A Troubled Man profile image61
    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago

    lol



    No, that's not how it works. Remains of bodies decompose quickly after death. Fossilization does not occur expect under very specific conditions, which are rare.



    Since there is no evidence to refute evolution, the creationists only avenue is to attack the scientists themselves by creating conspiracy theories.



    Then, the creationist will turn to their holy books for advice and comfort and to rail against us all with doom and gloom.



    lol

    1. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Dearest Toubled Man,

      You said: No, that's not how it works. Remains of bodies decompose quickly after death. Fossilization does not occur expect under very specific conditions, which are rare.

      Fossilization occurs over hundreds of thousands of years, according to other statements you've made. Well, then, by the same token Dinosaurs have been found, in fossilized states, your 'missing link' species should have been found by the myriads. Are there specific conditions that you can prove exist, in order to create the special fossils you need to prove evolution?

      You said: Since there is no evidence to refute evolution, the creationists only avenue is to attack the scientists themselves by creating conspiracy theories.

      What I provided was proof that Scientific Institutions[/i] have declared compromise in order to refute any and all theories [b]other than those theories they/you embrace. That's not a conspiracy theory. That's a fact!

      Dearest Randy Godwin,

      Interesting name, by the way.

      You said: I suggest you give up studying evolution at this point.  It's obvious you do not understand half of what you are stating about the subject. 


      You can't fool me into believing I am ignorant of what I have researched. I am very thorough in my research. So, you can point your finger and call me names, like a good little boy, or you can prove me wrong.

      You said:

      Go to your church and rely on the words of your preacher as you've always done.  Don't try to understand that which you are incapable of.  Bible belt Baptist, I bet

      I'm Canadian. We have no Bible belts here... unfortunately. As for Church, well, I spent the first 27 years of my faith outside of any Institution of faith. I left Catholicism and stayed away from everything except THE WORD of G'D and my own research/educational resources. I've never relied on the words of any preacher, except the ONE I TRUST, YESHUA HAMASCIACH.

      When you live up to one of HIS Model phrases then come back and call me ignorant, if you like.

      BLESSINGS to you both, Gentleman, in THE NAME of THE ONE WHO HOLDS the earth in The Palm of HIS Hand, YESHUA, CAPTAIN of HOSTS, ANGEL of G'D! Amen,.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I cannot help it if you labor under delusion while trying to understand evolution.  You simply cannot understand why fossils are found or not and why primate fossils are harder to find than those of the dinosaurs.  It's very simple, dinosaurs have existed hundreds of millions of years whereas humans and their ancestors have only been around a fraction of that time. 

        The iceman mummy is over 5,000 years old and it is simply a miracle he was preserved so long because of the particular place his body was found.  A shallow depression protected his body from the glaciers slowly sliding down the mountain over the 5,000+ year period.  Small populations of humans and their ancestors make it almost impossible to find complete skeletons of early man, but it doesn't mean they did not exist.

        The Bible is simply old tales made up by common men, as is the god it proposes to represent.  You do not want to believe this and so you will use any excuse to deny facts showing the novel to be false.  You do not seek truth with your research, only justification for your sad religious beliefs.  I suggest you try not to use science in your posts as you harm your argument much more than help it.  Seriously!smile

        1. EmVeeT profile image81
          EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hey there, Randy, (Is it okay if I call you Randy?) I'll edit if not... let me know...

          You said: you labor under delusion while trying to understand evolution. 

          I'm not trying to understand Evolution. After my research, although I admit I cannot be registered into any Scientific societies (as per my position) I have refreshed my memory and reinforced my view.

          This was never about me proving my understanding related to evolution. This was about my stating plainly in the beginning (to which I was waylaid and mocked) that evolution is not a fact, it is a theory. I stand by my claim.

          You said: You simply cannot understand why fossils are found or not and why primate fossils are harder to find than those of the dinosaurs.  It's very simple, dinosaurs have existed hundreds of millions of years whereas humans and their ancestors have only been around a fraction of that time. 

          The iceman mummy is over 5,000 years old and it is simply a miracle he was preserved so long because of the particular place his body was found.  A shallow depression protected his body from the glaciers slowly sliding down the mountain over the 5,000+ year period.  Small populations of humans and their ancestors make it almost impossible to find complete skeletons of early man, but it doesn't mean they did not exist.

          We're not going to agree. That is clear. The fact that you want so desperately to make me feel that I should believe your claims, when everything you've just stated in these two paragraphs and more, is old news to me.

          Why should it be such a miracle that a iceman mummy, over 5,000 years old was preserved? He was on ice! Have you heard of Cryonics? 

          The fact is this: until you bring me evidence, not a philosophy that promises to somehow join the molecular manifestations of human to an ancestrial lineage of beasts beginning from the one-celled organism through to the ape, PROVING using TRUE SCIENTIFIC METHODS, no unpredictable, impersonal, unsupervised, natural, temporal processes, then I won't believe the claims.

          All the 'so-called evidence' that has been presented to humanity as proofs has been controversial. That's why some scientists have been happy to surrender their titles and positions. They would rather leave with INTEGRITY than follow the lie.

          You are free to believe as you will. But if you want to change my mind... PROVE your claims. Otherwise, your attempts to make me feel ignorant have failed miserably. Sorry. I'm only a poor Canadian female, who thinks for myself. I don't follow the precepts of preachers, religion, no matter if it calls itself 'science', or men I've just met over a Forum.

          BLESSINGS to you, in THE NAME of THE G'D you deny, but WHOM I KNOW LIVES! YESHUA HAMASCIACH, THE ALPHA and OMEGA! Amen.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            LOL! You stand by a claim that evolution is not a fact right after admitting you're not trying to understand it.

            Could you possibly be any more contradictory and dishonest?



            Also entirely false. You will not change your beliefs or claims no matter what.



            How can you say that when you don't even understand it?



            Baloney. We can see where the lies are coming from.



            lol

          2. Randy Godwin profile image95
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sure, call me Randy, it happens to be my name.  Once again, if you can't understand how rare it is for an ancient be human body to found in its entirety--because of scavengers, the elements, and 10's of thousands of years--then we are indeed wasting our time discussing it. 

            So where exactly did you learn about your god if not from preachers or the novel?  Did all of your knowledge just pop into your head directly fro the deity itself?  Suggestion--throw a dead animal carcass into the woods and come back a few years later and tell me how many bones you find, then imagine what would be left after only 100 years, not to mention thousands.  I think even you might understand the lack of human fossils we find then.

            And believe me, I have better things to do than to try and make you understand basic science.  You don't wish to understand it anyway or you wouldn't use such flimsy arguments in defense of your imaginary god.  Besides, I certainly have no wish to honor an ancient deity who impregnates 13 year old betrothed virgins against their will.  Or, drowns 99% of the life on earth, including sinful little babies, because he screwed up the first creation.  Whoops! Do over!  lol

      2. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        There is no such thing as a "missing link" - that term is misleading and inaccurate.



        Baloney. That is entirely false. It is very dishonest of you to say such things when they are not true.

        How very sad it is when believers have to stoop to such levels.

        1. EmVeeT profile image81
          EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Dearest Troubled Man,

          You said: There is no such thing as a "missing link" - that term is misleading and inaccurate.

          Tell the Scientists who are demanding more than just the superficial evidence evolution uses to substantiate itself thus far.

          As for the rest of what you said, honestly, I don't have time... I have a book I want to continue writing.

          You can call me sad all the way to the grave, if it makes you happier. Of course, I'm not, and you would be wrong, but go for it. Enjoy the rest of your day. I'm done for now...

          You can continue making fun of me... I promise I won't be back to check...

          BLESSINGS to you in THE NAME of THE MASTER of THE UNIVERSE! YESHUA, KING of Kings. FAITHFUL and TRUE. Amen.

          1. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I was going to say, "The Thread That Never Ends...". But your posts are getting shorter. We appreciate that. smile

          2. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You are just making that up. Scientists are making no such demands? Why do you keep saying such things? Horrible, dishonest behavior.

        2. Don Crowson profile image78
          Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So tell us about the Piltdown man and Lucy.  What did they call them.  Missing links?  Yes, that is what they said.

          1. LookingForWalden profile image61
            LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Out of the curiosity to better understand where you coming from I must ask you if you believe man coexisted with dinosaurs?
            And how old do you believe the earth is?

            1. Don Crowson profile image78
              Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well, if I recall correctly, there are man's tracks and dinosaur tracks in the same strata in Texas.  I have heard that, but I am not certain that it is true.  As for the age of the earth, I would guess a bilion or maybe a trilion.  It is very old.

              1. LookingForWalden profile image61
                LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you. You believe it was possible for dinosaurs and humans to have existed together. How could someone possibly say our education system is bad?

                1. Don Crowson profile image78
                  Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, I could say it is bad because Obama said that Hawaii is in Asia.  Is that bad for a Harvard grad.? And he said we had 57 states.  Well, our education system is bad.

                  1. LookingForWalden profile image61
                    LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Neocon subterfuge

          2. Randy Godwin profile image95
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So how many "fake messiahs" and religious con men have there been in the history of the world, Don?  Does this mean there is no real messiah?  Using your reasoning this would indicate there is no such creature, correct?  lol

            1. Don Crowson profile image78
              Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well, Randy, I thought the subject was evolution.  But if you want to change it, there are many false teachers and false Messiahs.  But that does not mean there is not a real Messiah.  The fact that something false is claiming to be the real proves there is something real doesn't it? Otherwise it would not be a believable fake.  However, the piltdown man was a hoax. Many so-called scientists believed it was real.  But so far there is no transitional being.  They do keep looking for one and that assumes they believe one exists.  Their opinion--not mine.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Unless one believes in supernatural beings who have no history of their own creation there certainly had to have been perhaps many examples of humans evolving in different ways.  There are certainly more facts supporting this than in your mythical god scenario.

                1. Don Crowson profile image78
                  Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  There is no mythical god scenario.  We are discussing evolution.  Not myth. So the evidence either shows that man evolved from monkey or he is a separate creation. 
                  And of course, you have no evidence unless there is a missing link that shows half man and half monkey.  That is the creature evoltuionists have been seeking for generations.  Does one exist or not?

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Hey Don, not to ruffle your feathers, but this topic isn't about evolution and Randy was only pointing out how much the OP didn't know about evolution. Nothing more, nothing less.

                    The topic is actually religion based on the OP. Just a thought.

                  2. Randy Godwin profile image95
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No one is claiming men evolved from monkeys, Don.  They simply have a common ancestor, as do horses and zebras, all of the feline family, as well as all dogs, wolves, coyotes, and foxes.

                    As I stated earlier, there may have been many transitional primates before man became the creature he is today.  It doesn't have to be a single creature with total transition from apelike creature to modern man.  And we do have examples of some of these creatures and will no doubt find many more in the future. 

                    So does one exist?  Who knows, but there is much more evidence of these creatures once existing than of any invisible deity so far.

                  3. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No Don, you are NOT discussing evolution, you are discussing something entirely different that makes no sense at all.

          3. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The term is 'transitional fossil', Don. I already told you that. I also told you Piltdown man was a hoax.

            Why do keep on with that? Why do you refuse to understand?

            1. Don Crowson profile image78
              Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I understand perfectly. The Piltdown man was a hoax.  some so-called scientist want to prove there was that transitional being.  Other so-called scientists wilingly believed. They wanted to believe.  And they did.  By faith they were convinced.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No, they weren't. That is entirely not true. You are just making that up.

                1. Don Crowson profile image78
                  Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  A Google search would prove you wrong.  Want me to do it for you?  Or are you capable of doing your own reseqrch.  Your posts leave some doubt about your ability to do research.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol You mean you actually read my posts? Sure doesn't look that way.

  43. marymootoo profile image69
    marymootooposted 5 years ago

    Sorry I have just come across this forum and I am trying to catch up here who is G'D and L'RD which film was it in?

    1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
      Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's actually more of a book...

    2. Don Crowson profile image78
      Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Insert the vowell "o" in each word and it becomes obvious.

  44. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    462

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      /34

  45. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    217

  46. LookingForWalden profile image61
    LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago

    I would love to know what alleged college thought you that theory.

  47. LookingForWalden profile image61
    LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago

    Is the absence of evidence the evidence of absence ?

  48. LookingForWalden profile image61
    LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago

    Also, I'm surprised nobody has discussed the dinosaurs evolution. There have been huge advancements in determining how the dinosaurs evolved and lived. Even what they looked like. They have found transitional bird Dino  species that show the interspecies evolution.

    1. EmVeeT profile image81
      EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Dearest Troubled Man,

      I don't want to single you out, because you may consider this unkind; however, today I'm posting this, to thank you.

      You see, you've been a motivation to me these last mornings since I first posted "The Challenge". You've been one of the reasons I wake up with the exquisite expectation to see my G'D and CHAMPION fulfill the request that I made of HIM, when irritated by the lack of respect meted in HIS Direction, by individuals, who like you, don't believe HE Exists.

      Now, I know you could go into a rampage about how HE Didn't 'DO' anything to Prove HIMSELF to you; therefore, my platform must be false, and you must be right... I know that... but these are the facts, in as much as I see them...

      ... though you call yourself a Troubled Man, and you're all prickly and mean when it comes to G'D, and though I think you may actually hate the fact that I will not admit there is any force other than G'D in control here, and while there is a big possibility that because you hate everything I stand for, you hate me as well...

      I want you to know, I don't hate you.

      In fact if I can express this without sounding absolutely crazy, I love you.

      First and foremost, because the G'D I Revere and Worship Loves you. HE Died for you. HE Died for me.

      Apart from that, I love the fact that you didn't recoil and hide in the background when I stepped out on a limb to show my irritation. Most of all though, I truly appreciate that you made every effort, during those first few posts, not to articulate the disrepectful words you caught my attention using on other Forum Threads.

      You probably didn't intend to, but throughout several of those initial posts, you even wrote G'D as I do. And, I consider you did that subconsciously, because there was a part of you that didn't mean to express your opposition with brutality, yet, couldn't help write what you felt/believed. You have been true to what you believe. I cannot fault you for that.

      We do not agree on much, in all fairness. Whenever I come to the Forums or I see your name on my HubPages Notifications, I have to brace myself, as I click onto the message you've added.

      At the same time, there's a part of me that is expectant, hoping G'D WILL HAVE DONE Something to penetrate past the jagged rows of teeth defending the precepts your heart holds dear...

      ... and I know you won't believe this, because G'D Didn't club you in the head or cause you to bite your tongue each time you've cursed HIS Name throughout the course of your life, but I haven't lost faith. I believe HE WILL Make HIMSELF so very REAL to you, when the moment is most significant. HE WILL DO SO in response to my prayer.

      Why? Because the prayers I lifted up to HIM regarding this Challenge, were not prayers to hurt anyone, but just to SHOW HIMSELF in an unmistakable manifestation of MERCY, GLORY or POWER, and that The Manifestation Would Be INIMITABLY, IRREFUTABLY G'D, and then... then, Sir, you would have the choice, you've had every day since you first understood there is such a thing as a choice... [i]to Embrace HIS Offer of Forgiveness and Love, or turn your back on HIM yet again.

      Troubled Man, I pray the moment will be amazing. In the meanwhile, please accept my sincere BLESSINGS... no matter how you may reply, no matter how much you may consider me a trouble maker, or just an ignorant individual...

      I pray the MOST WONDROUS and ABUNDANT BLESSINGS to you, In THE NAME of my BELOVED KING, YESHUA HAMASIACH! Amen.

      1. EmVeeT profile image81
        EmVeeTposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        To Everyone Who Has Participated in this discussion:

        Thank you so very much for sharing your views. I am planning on spending my time writing from here on in. I consider that THE G'D I WORSHIP and ADORE Absolutely Can, as so many diligent and insightful individuals have already noted, Defend HIMSELF. HE DOESN'T NEED me to do so. HE Never Has.

        However, there is a measure of respect that would be fair to extend toward those whose beliefs may differ from those another may hold dear. As is so visually evident, my love for YESHUA of THE BIBLE is very real, and to me, very precious, yet I don't consider this a reason to assault those who don't believe as I do.

        My strong belief is that G'D HAS GIVEN each and every individual FREE WILL. The choices an individaul makes should not be attacked therefore... but all things that are posted should be open to respectful, intelligent, discussion or debate.

        If I have offended anyone by my style of writing, I apologize, not for my position, but because I never intend to offend.

        BLESSINGS to you all, in THE NAME of THE ONE WHOSE PRECIOUS SOVEREIGNTY blesses me, YESHUA HAMASCIACH! Amen.... amen.

        smile

      2. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I still see no challenge. Where is it?



        I am not irritated by the lack of respect you have shown us with your made up stories and false statements.



        He didn't prove HIMSELF to you either, you and I both know that. And, since you've made up other stuff that is entirely false, you obviously made that up too.



        Once again, you're just making stuff up as you go along. I don't hate anyone.

        What you stand for is dishonesty and disrespect. Why should anyone show you otherwise?



        No, you don't. That is another false statement.



        Yes, I know the mythical tale of Christ.



        Often, therapists will use the same terminologies their patients use in order to communicate with them on their level.



        Of course, that will probably never happen unless I give myself up for a per-frontal lobotomy.



        Why not pray to your G'D to feed the starving rather than wasting his time (and yours) trying to convert me to a sadistic cult?



        lol

  49. Perspycacious profile image75
    Perspycaciousposted 5 years ago

    I will repeat here a reply I just made to another entry in this forum which had asked why "Christian America" has so much evidence that indicates Christians are not caring:  "The faults you cite rest not in the teachings of Christ, but in the practice of those teachings by so many of today's Christians (and partially in any man-created changes of Christ's teachings and instructions.)  Many of today's Christians, worldwide by the way, spend more on feeding their pet birds, cats, dogs, hummingbirds, etc., than they think of spending  to help parents with starving children dying in their arms.  Charity, being "the pure love of Christ," is mocked when Christians, or anyone, gorge themselves in such a world and gratuitously label it "giving thanks." The Christian scriptures of the New Testament quote Christ as saying (see John13:35): "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, that ye have love one to another." And, also in John 8:31, "if ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the tuth shall make you free."

  50. Don Crowson profile image78
    Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago

    May I suggest that you consider the following:  Americans respond to the needs of which they are aware.  Remember Katrina and various other disasters?  There were many reaching out and helping everyone they could.  Recall the earthquake in Hatti?  The Americans were tight there helping. I think people around the country help a lot more thatn you are willing to give them credit for helping.

    Now when the next-door neighbor needs help, I strongly suspect that most people would be right there in the time of need.  At least that is how it is in my neighborhood.

    But guess what? We have reached a point ion this country that we have government programs that supply the needs of the poor.  The government give food stamps, hospital care and now they areproviding telephones for those who qualify. Does that tell you something? It should say a lot. It should say that while there are many Christians live in this country, the government practices a completely different religion.

    We are no longer teaching people to fish, we are giving them fish and enabling them to remain poor. That is not the Christian way, is it?

    1. amymarie_5 profile image86
      amymarie_5posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Government programs are for all of us in time of need. I'd personally rather see my tax money help an under privileged kid get to college than have my tax money pay for his shelter in a jail cell. I'm not sure how that enables anyone. I suppose as a Christian you'd rather see people starve in the steers. That's unsurprising to me.

      1. LookingForWalden profile image61
        LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        +1

    2. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
      Philanthropy2012posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Not quite strictly true Don!

      Americans are aware of the terrible crimes in Oman right now, but instead America invaded Libya!

      1. Don Crowson profile image78
        Don Crowsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Wow! you just told us about Government decisions.  Not really Americans' decisions.  There is a huge difference.

 
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