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do you believe in hell

  1. romari profile image60
    romariposted 5 years ago

    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/5839830_f248.jpg
    Share your thoughts.

    1. 0
      V Qisyaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A definite YES!

      1. Edwinoel Tanglao profile image82
        Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree V, what is said in the bible is the truth that extends beyond this life.  Unless we open our heart and spirit, we may never understand the bible and everything in it, as we continue to be deceived by the evil one, and to rely only on our own mind and power, when in reality, all good things come from God.  It is in the improper use of these things that man creates trouble upon himself.  May the light of Christ lead us to the truth in his words, that we all may help weaken and destroy evil in this world which already creates a hell of some sort in our lives as we so chose evil to rule.

    2. Titen-Sxull profile image92
      Titen-Sxullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No.

      Hell, as it exists in the Bible, would make God easily the most evil being possible. Eternal agony with no purpose other than to cause you pain, from which you cannot be redeemed, is completely contradictory with the notion of a loving God.

      Also there's no evidence for any afterlife bad or good. No evidence = no reason to believe.

      1. mediawizard profile image82
        mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        God is loving.  Hell was created because of Lucifurs defiance to God.

        1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
          AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          But someone had to create it. Why not just send satan to hell and cause the hearts of the supposed sinners to like him?
          doesn't the Bible say that God hardened pharaoh's heart? If he's capable of altering hearts, why not alter those of the sinners? hmm
          This is my dilemma.

          1. mediawizard profile image82
            mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus created us to have choices in life.  You have a choice to disobey and obey.  Adam and eve sinned.  So we are born with sin; we can't change that even after we are saved.  But because Jesus died on the cross for our sin, He can wipe away our sin.

            Satin will be sent to hell and so will all of followers in the end times.  If you have read the new testament bible you will know that God is loving.  In the old testament it "seems" like God is cruel, but He really isn't.  Read your bible a few times and you'll get it.

            1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
              AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              But Pharaoh didn't have a choice. God hardened his heart.
              Adam and Even sinned. So we all have to pay for being born a sinner? Is it our fault we are born in sin?
              I've read the Old Testament several times. God still seems harsh. I don't get it.

              1. mediawizard profile image82
                mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                God hardened his heart so He could show His power to the Israelites.  No, it's Adam and Eves fault, but life is not fare, as you probably already know.  We do have control over our actions though, but we still sin because we have those evil thoughts in our head, and therefor are capable of doing them.

                He does, but He has to because of sin.  He must punish sin, you don't see thousands of dieing by God's hand these days because of Jesus.  Jesus enabled us to be able to go heaven because he cleans all our sin when we accept it.

                1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
                  AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Hell just seems to be a pretty harsh punishment for people who were born into a condition they can't help.
                  So if God can harden or soften hearts for His purpose, why not unharden the hearts of sinnerse so they don't go to hell? I don't get it hmm

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                    brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Choosing to believe goes deeper than that.
                    Firstly, God knows the hearts of people. People do not want to know for various reasons:
                    Rebellion, they simply don't want anything else running their lives. This can also be arrogant pride; they want to rebel against their parents and the best way to do this is to rebel against their god.
                    Disappointment: God says "seek and ask", but they have done that and not gotten the results they wanted, etc..
                    Personal wounds: They trusted God and their business went belly up and they are left wondering why did this happen, etc.
                    Strained human relationships: Mom and dad divorced and things were tough. Parent dying. Abusive parents. Anything along the lines that would hinder belief in a heavenly Father who loves.
                    Intellectual doubts: 'There are people much smarter than me who did not believe in God, so why should I'. 'The talking snake doesn't make any sense to me and i won't be made to believe it'.
                    Fear of commitment: God is after all, the ultimate commitment.
                    Culture: Being born in a muslim country doesn't allow for open minded decisions about what God to serve.
                    The list goes on.

                    But God reaches all those who sincerely ask the question, Where are you God? It doesn't matter what country or what situation, if that question is asked because that person honestly wants that question answered. God will respond.

                         In all cases, it is not what we say that is really the problem. People have to be prodded to 'dig deeper' to be honest with themselves and get to the root of the problem to believe. Most people put up smoke screens to deflect people away from the root of the problem. Some do not want to give up their lifestyle. Some do not want to be called stupid because they heard that from parents and during school. Some do not want to change their career which makes them lots of money - dishonestly. Some are too proud to believe because they need to feel self worth and believing would mean they were wrong and that endorses their notion of self worthlessness.
                         Then there is an aspect of these same people who have given themselves to their decision not to believe, wholeheartedly and for so long a time, that it has dismantled their ability to believe. They will now gloss over any persuasive evidence, historical documentation, archaeological discovery, even miracles will be reasoned away and this is impossible for God to overcome as i will explain below.

                    And belief is a choice we must make without having all the information and all the answers beforehand.

                    So why does God not unharden their hearts? Because God treats people with Intrinsic value and not Instrumental value. God deems us as having worth.  Intrinsic value has value if it is good and of itself. Instrumental value, is a means to a determined end. When we treat people as a means to an end we dehumanize them and treat them as things. But when we allow them to be who they are, we are respecting their choices and ultimately, them. And God is no different, He values each one of us, intrinsically. This is why He responds.

                  2. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
                    A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    AshtonFirefly. God gave us free will. He has a meek and humble Spirit. It is a free will choice to choose God's way or not. What most do not understand is when God said He was going to harden Pharoahs heart it is because God already knew how Pharoah was going to react.
                    Going to hell is a choice. A choice of flesh over Spirit.

          2. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
            VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No, it's Adams fault we are born into sin. Being righteous is something we can never fully comprehend  because sin is all we know - we were born into sin, or rather, sin entered into the human genome because of Adam and we don't know any different.

            We live in a fallen world with unseen but very powerful and  hostile entities surrounding us and influencing us, and the only reason that things are not as bad as an all out blood bath, are because the Spirit of God is still in the world keeping these entities at bay. God is still protecting the world, even sinners, atheists and the vile reprobates. However, we are warned that we will reap what we sow and on an individual level God withdraws his protection the deeper we go into sin, and we reap the consequences as well as the people around us. This is why people who do the Ouija board, for example, can very often get possessed by one of these entities.  Once you invite something in,  you loose protection as a result of your own actions, then, you reap the consequences.

            when we look upon the world today with all its fighting, bickering and squabbling, not to mention sickness, disease and suffering, that is what we are seeing. We are seeing the result of sin - plain and simple. In my fallen state I cannot comprehend what it means to be righteous and I have to rely on Jesus - through prayer, reading the bible and having a moment by moment walk,  that He will do the required work in me to enable me to understand and be brought closer to his image each and every day, month after month, year after year. Its nothing I or anyone can do by themselves. It's not about trying to lead a good life under your own efforts. There is more going on here than the average person realizes.

            Adam was created directly by God and therefore Adam was "of God" but we were born of man, i.e. Adam and Eve. If you remember Eve was created of Adam and not directly by God. It is more than a little interesting that science has verified that the whole human race came from one woman. Can you believe that?

            There may seem a lot of things in the bible, that when you first read them, you think, 'no way!' But when you actually look into things, especially some occult practices that are forbidden in the bible such as channeling of spirits, you begin to realize that things like a talking donkey are not such a tall story after all.

            1. autumn18 profile image68
              autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              See the fallen world and we are all sinners thinking is stuff I can't get behind. I mean there are evil people yes but why have such a negative view on the whole world and all humans? See I don't believe in Ouiji boards or occult magic so yeah I'm probably not going to believe a talking donkey.

              I do think it's about leading a good life under our own efforts. When I see some Christians I know ultimately do what they want anyway and act catty or rude I wonder how Jesus is working that in them.

              How did science verify the human race came from one woman?

              1. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
                VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Its not negative at all - it's the truth!

                So you think you're good huh? Its easy for us to be a good, moral and upstanding citizens when we live in a society where our every need is catered for. Where feeding our families is as simple as driving to the nearest store to pick up some groceries. 

                You just wait until people loose that ability and then you will really see a total breakdown in society and moreover, what so-called upstanding members of the community are really capable of. Sadly, if you live in America, that scenario is not more than a year away as the US dollar will certainly implode in the very near future. It's not a question of 'if' any-more but 'when'.

                As for other Christians you are totally missing the point. Christianity, just like most religions is full of people who are religious. When I say religious, I mean people who try to placate God by thinking that they have to lead some sort of moral life and suddenly change into Mr/Mrs Goody-two-shoes overnight, to be accepted by God.

                You probably know the type, they suddenly stop going out with their friends and find new Churchianity friends to go around with, just so they don't have to think about sin. They think that by not kicking the cat and/or cutting out the f-word, the c-word or any other swear word you can think of, that that makes them Holy.

                All they are doing is lying to themselves about who they really are and more important than that,  they are lying to Jesus, too.

                Jesus doesn't require your BS, He requires total honesty with a person about who they really are on the inside and not just the outside persona that a person generally shows to the rest of the world.

                Whether Jesus is working on any particular person will depend on their honesty and openness with the Him as well as their willingness to let Jesus be their Lord and saviour by giving Him free, unfettered access to their life.The thing is about this type of walk, where you are open and honest with father/Jesus about your sin nature and willing to let Him to do the work in you, so that you carry out His will and not yours, requires faith. That is hard. At times it can be a very painful process too.

                The truth is it's much, much easier to get into churchianity and pretend that Jesus is working in your life by making the changes yourself. You just sit there, pay your 10%, turn up on  Sunday and then on Monday you just kick the cat and do all those things that you normally do, until next Sunday comes around, when you start your acting careerer with all your churchianity buddies by pretending that you are Mr Goody-two-shoes.

                Seriously though, my advice there would be not to judge someone who appears to be rude or angry. Anger is not necessarily a sin, in and of itself and you just might be surprised just how Jesus is working in some people.

                Jesus has made so many changes to my life and yet, He's only just scratched the surface. Moreover, the things I thought He would fix first He didn't and sometimes He does weird things that I don't understand and only become clear some time after the event. One such thing has happened to me recently but I'm not going to go there...just yet.

                Another thing,  the bible tells you to beware of what it calls 'wolves in sheep's clothing', whereby they are all nicety, nicety and act like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths, but inside, are like ravaging wolves ready to devour. Sound familiar?   

                "How did science verify the human race came from one woman?"

                Well it comes from the study of mitochondrial DNA and y-chromosomal DNA, which used to trace ancestry because it is mitochondrial DNA  that is passed unmixed from mothers to children of both sexes.

                To cut a long and drawn out story short, science has found that by studying this DNA that the homo sapien species as it exists today, can be traced back to one common ancestor or woman.

                However, I'll be honest, this is not a  Creationist finding and they are not going to give up their precious evolution any-time soon. They get round it by saying that just because that the modern species of Homo sapiens appears to come from one woman it doesn't mean that she was the only woman  in existence at the time and they go on to give lots of wild assumptions about possible numbers of other women. Its just total BS in my opinion.

                1. A Thousand Words profile image81
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "No, it's Adams fault we are born into sin."

                  Actually... it's God's fault for the following reasons:
                  1) For creating Lucifer when He knew good and well what he would do, being omniscient and all.

                  2) For putting the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden before they were "ready" to partake of it.

                  3) Creating Adam in such a way that he had the ability to choose to eat of the fruit or not eat of it in the first place. Then you say... "God doesn't want robots..."

                  Just because God selfishly desires for us to worship him/follow him by choice (so he actually feels truly loved/special? I never did quite understand this), doesn't mean he had to create us that way, especially if meant the end result would be eternal torment. Either He is omniscient or He isn't. If He is, He knew the choice they would make, as well as the choice that Lucifer would. He, then, knew Hell would come. And did nothing at the time to stop it for the rest of the offspring He "knew" would come forth. He could've easily written the Devil out of existence along with the fallen angels at the very moment they turned against Him. For what purpose didn't He? Or did He take pleasure in having a place for all the bad, disobedient kiddies to go, and be in torment forever? Be He that vengeful?

                  If He isn't omniscient, well... there's goes one of his "attributes."

                  Oh, and Adam and Eve were created with the ability to sin, if they were not, they would not have been able to. Quite a simple point, really. O.O Ponder that one. Is God "punishing" us for His own mistake?

                  This is also the reason I find it silly that people care that Jesus was tested. If He was born of a virgin and conceived because the Holy Spirit impregnated her, then, he (jesus) was born without the sin nature, right? That's the whole point of a "virgin" birth. It means, then, that no matter what the Devil threw at him during his time of fasting, he would've have done the right thing anyway, because it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to do the wrong thing... Ponder that one, as well.

                  The God of the Bible is selfish. He's like one of those parents who could do whatever they pleased to/with their children simply because they gave birth to them and feel they own their lives and are justified in whatever action they take. He might cut off a child's arm. Then build a pretty prosthetic one and say "here, it's even more agile and made of gold, but surprisingly light weight!" and you're supposed to grin and bear it and say thank you, as if He didn't just cut off you're frikkin arm. (There's an allusion to Job, here. God made a bet with the Devil. Sucks for Job, and his apparently less significant family members.)

                  What about the rights of the children? Rubbish. We would never allow parents to continue being parents with a mentality like that in our society. Why? Because it's wrong. Pure and simple.

                  1. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
                    VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The question/s you posed, whilst not exactly  original, are logically thought out and well defined, but, there are just a couple of problems I foresee with them.

                    Firstly Lucifer was created perfect and was perfect in his ways:

                    Eze 28:15  Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

                    And secondly, whilst your logic is perfectly sound and reasonable, it is indeed human logic and you cannot compare human logic with that of God. In addition, there are so many unknown quantities, that you or I cannot know or even begin to comprehend, and it makes those types of questions fundamentally flawed from the outset. That is not a cop-out, that is just the way it is.

                    Isa_55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts

                    However, the question you should have pondered and/or posed, was this: if God is only good and righteous and He created everything, then where does evil come from?

                    I guess you missed your chance with that one! It would seem both Adam and Lucifer were created perfect but both sinned against God. Its a safe bet to say that evil existed before Adam as Lucifer and his angels were already on the scene. The only questions are how Lucifer came to sin, presumably of his own accord.

                    Herein lies the answer you are looking for and for me, its an obvious one. If God the father represents the highest power in the universe and He is only Holy and righteous in His nature, then, by going against the highest supreme and righteous  being, is an act of evil. However, because God is righteous, he has no choice but to give his created beings free agency to choose.

                    Its interesting that us humans can clearly envisage evil as murder or rape or something we consider to be major. We don't give it the same credence as a little-white-lie, as we often call them. The irony is that both little-white-lies and murder are both a sin against the creator and by their very definition, both are evil. Only since no one 'seemingly' gets hurt by a so-called little-white-lie we think that that's okay.

                    Have you noticed that it's only a little-white-lie when we're the one doing the lying, but never when someone else is doing it to us. Funny that!

                    Therefore I put it to you that the very essence of evil is to disobey God,  who is the ultimate supreme power of righteousness in the known universe and beyond.

                  2. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
                    VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Firstly, I just want to say, that whatever you think of me, I don't hate you or feel any animosity towards you whatsoever. Okay, now that is out of the way - lets get down to business!

                    "You seem to know a lot about me while knowing little to nothing."

                    I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic at all, but, either way, I will draw some comfort from that - thanks!

                    "I have starting doing this again, and this mere conversation between us has helped to find that, and so thanks for that, at least."

                    Thank you, I'm glad it has helped you in some sort of way.

                    "You know absolutely nothing about what my "relationship" with God was. This is a fact. You can believe all day that by my word choice and the very little about my "walk" that I actually mentioned, that I did not believe all that I believed with my very heart and you'd be WRONG."

                    Your right I really don't know anything about you, what you look like, your habits, your favourite colour, food etc, but I don't really have to in order to understand some fundamental psychology, coupled with your existing relationship with God to know that, or infer, things about your past relationship, in the same way that I don't have to know anything about a man or woman that has recently got divorced, other than that their past relationship was not as it should be, otherwise they would  never have gotten divorced in the first place.

                    Sorry but it's not possible for someone to believe with all their heart and soul, from the very core of their being like you were supposed to, and then to turn round and deny everything. I have no doubt, though, that you sincerely believed, that you believed with all your heart. Of that I am sure.

                    Jer_17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

                    It is so true, in that our hearts are so wicked and deceitful and if anyone knows the truth in that statement, it is me. So please don't think that I am pointing fingers at you with reference to that scripture, because I am not.

                    "I had a serious moment, when I was lying on the floor, in tears, after having "realized" how I really was a sinner and how I really needed to seek God out change my life. And I did. And it was a process. And I made plenty of mistakes. But I was sold on one thing, for sure. That Jesus Christ was the Son of God, my Saviour, and that eventually I was going to have to forfeit all of my EVERYTHING to Him."

                    Jesus Christ, STILL IS,  the son of God despite what you now have come to believe. He STILL IS, your saviour and He STILL IS the only way to come to the Father. There is one thing that bothers me though, and that is, that you say you were 'sold' on the idea. Who sold you the idea in the first place?

                    In fact, there are quite a few things that bother me about what you have written and I will do my best to try to address them. However, they all lead to one conclusion though, and that is, that I am right in some of the things I am saying. Jesus said that you will know a tree by it's fruits. Despite, your sincerity about coming to Jesus, and I believe that you believed what you said, but what has happened to your fruits? Something went wrong for you and I know that you have been a victim of Churchianity and that it's not really your fault, but the most saddest thing about this, is that you have thrown the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

                    "I was a part of two youth ministries, a leader in both, which I didn't even want to be, but was made so, because if there was anybody who'd be willing to do something, it was me, and they made me one."

                    This makes me so angry and more than justified in my stance on Churchianity. You've had burdens placed upon you that you should never have had. Not only burdens of a so-called youth ministry but also other burdens related to sin, too. More of which I will speak about later...

                    American and English Christianity is so wrong. They think that if you say a prayer one time, then you will be saved no matter what, and  this whole idea that you can 'convert people' like some 'Borg assimilation' is laughable. In my opinion the best anyone can hope to do as regards to converting someone, is tell them about Jesus. But you will never convert them by getting them to repeat some prayer.  Converting/convicting people is the work of the Holy Spirit, that is, to reveal the truth of Jesus Christ, to the hearts of men as well as to convict of sin. You, me or anyone else will never do that. Yet time and time again, the so called church, who really should know better, tries to bypass the work of the Holy Spirit in order to get bums on seats or pews as they are called.

                    is it any wonder that Jesus said that:

                    Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
                    Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
                    Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

                    "Anyway. I began cutting away at things in my life. The type of music I listened, the the types of people I would let be closest to me, the kind of TV programs I watched, the amount of time I spent doing things that had nothing to do with "God."

                    What you have just described to me is Churchianity 101! All of the above is just plain wrong, and if I can do anything today, it would be to convince you of that. But first, what I am not saying is, that it is okay to go on living after your own lusts, and when I say lusts I don't just mean sexual, although, that would certainly be included.

                    Don't you see that you were putting yourself in  an impossible position from the outset as well as bypassing the work of Jesus on the cross? It's not for you to save yourself by your own works. You cannot become your own lord and saviour by any stretch of the imagination.

                    Each and every one of us are born with a certain disposition towards sin, that is, we all have our own particular sins in which we partake. some are 'biggies' and some are what we may 'wrongly' term as "little sins" like lying because we mistakenly think that because it "doesn't really hurt anyone" that that's okay, notice the inverted commas?

                    Firstly though, God doesn't have a scale of sins, where for example, a murder gets more penalty points than someone who tells a lie, and secondly, even just desiring a sin in your heart, is tantamount to doing it. So what then? This is surely an impossible situation? There is no one on this earth that can be that good or that perfect! I cant! So who then, can be saved? Jesus's answer? With man this impossible but with God all things are possible!

                    The point is that we all have sins that are so deep-rooted, they are part of our make-up and there is just no way that we can control them, in and of ourselves, under our own efforts. The breaking of a persons sin (and/or  the power or hold that sin has on a person) - is a supernatural one and chruchianity man/woman would do well to recognise this. Coming to Jesus does not mean that you have to give up 10 things you love and replace them with 10 things you hate, in a useless attempt to make yourself righteous before God.

                    Yes God wants us to to give up sin and be brought closer to the image of Jesus but that does not come about by superficial means. He does not want anyone's BS pretence, whereby a person merely abstains from the offending behaviour whilst still desiring it in his/her heart, He wants a total change of heart, which in time, brings about the required behaviour.Why do you think Jesus said that if a man even looks at another woman with lust in his eyes then he (that man) has already committed the act of adultery in his heart?

                    The true gospel of Jesus talks about a change of heart, not just abstinence from sin, there is a difference and it is an important one. When I first came to Jesus I found out the hard way the difference between abstinence and giving my sins to Jesus, to let Him work in my life so that any change that takes place, is a supernatural one, rather than a forced one through religion.

                    There are a few problems with letting Jesus take the reigns of your life:

                    1) It is, without doubt, the hardest thing you will ever do!

                    2) Things don't go the way you expect them to go.

                    3) You will suffer pain and/or anguish at some point in your walk.

                    4) The closer you draw to Jesus the greater the chance of a nasty spiritual attack and when they happen, you will be in no doubt about a hostile enemy, and powers and principalities at work. No doubt whatsoever!

                    The only way a person will ever do this is through giving all their burdens to Jesus, whether they be burdens of sin or life or both. There is no other way, except to trust in Him totally, through the trials and tribulations and through that which you will suffer at some stage. He is the true artist and we are the clay and oftentimes, the only way a person can truly overcome their sin nature is through severe adversity. The flesh is the flesh and it doesn't give up without a fight. If a person suffers severe adversity they should rejoice because the saviour of the universe is at work in them.

                    I have lost count of the times  I have swore at father Jesus and called Him all sorts of names and questioned what he is doing. Why, is a question that I have often asked? Which is normally followed by "don't you know you are a stupid idiot" or worse.  I dare say that Mr or Mrs Churchianity man/woman would question a person who spoke to Jesus like that. But all  such people have, is fake sincerity. That is not a true relationship. It's about your honesty with your creator and yourself about what you really are inside, not pretending that you are something you are not. How does anyone seriously expect father Jesus to work in their life when they cant even be honest with Him and themselves in the first place. 

                    That is why if you don't truly believe in Jesus from the outset, you have a problem. You are just going through the motions and nothing more. You are simply following your own paths, or listening to other people, who themselves don't have a clue either. Their pastor probably doesn't have a clue, such is the nature of Churchianity and the government controlled, political movement it has become. As a good friend of mine once said, "people need to get out of Churchianity and get with the Jesus program!" 

                    "I think any religion allowing for serious disunity between it's members has some serious issues and you can't blame it only on the members."

                    Sorry, but you CAN blame it on the members and for the reasons that I have already outlined. Look, there is only one bible, one truth and one way to the Father. Its not Father Jesus fault that mankind is so wicked that he takes the scriptures and twists them to his own ends. Why don't you understand that the true Church of Jesus Christ is denomination-less?

                    2Pe_1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

                    In other words, the Holy spirit is the only interpreter of the bible and not man or his logic or lateral thinking, as fascinating as that sometimes is. You will always get disagreement between Churchianity types and moreover, each one claims to have the Holy spirit as their guide. Well, at the end of the day, only one is right and the others are wrong and will stand before Jesus in judgement some day. In that day many will say Lord, Lord have we not...

                    Rom 3:4  Let it not be! But let God be true, and every man a liar; as it is written, "That You might be justified in Your sayings, and will overcome when You are judged." (please note, the context of this verse is within a 'works Vs faith' discussion.)

                    "Again, you know absolutely zilch about me, and you would do well to humble yourself before people, instead of making presumptions with no true evidence to back up what you're saying."

                    I have evidence to back up what I am saying. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. What are your fruits? The direct denial of Jesus and the bible? Do I really need any more evidence than that?

        2. Paul Wingert profile image78
          Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If god is the creater and destroyer of all things, why didn't he vaporize satan and hell a long time ago.  With a vast majority of people going to hell, you'd think that, by now satan would have more than enough manpower to overun god's kingdom.

          1. Edwinoel Tanglao profile image82
            Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Only if you believe that God is a creation of Satan, then you may be right, Paul.  In the last judgment, in Christ's second coming, Satan with his evil followers, rebellious and denying of Christ, have their days numbered.  With God, a 1000 years for us could only be a few hours or less for him as with him, time is his creation since the beginning, as everything is.  May more people be enlightened through the Holy Spirit.

      2. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
        VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "Hell, as it exists in the Bible, would make God easily the most evil being possible. Eternal agony with no purpose other than to cause you pain, from which you cannot be redeemed, is completely contradictory with the notion of a loving God."

        Wrong! If God didn't provide a way out, then I might just agree with you. However, since the Father provided a way for a man to escape condemnation through Jesus, there is no excuse - however distasteful we may find it..

        Also, if God is Holy and righteous, then, to be a just God and remain Holy and righteous then He has to punish sin. I suppose He could just let everyone off, since he loves them so much -  but then if He did that he would have to do it for people like Hitler, Stalin, pedophiles, murderers and  rapists.  If He didn't, then that would make him unjust. Heaven must, by its very definition, be an unimaginably beautiful place where no corruption exists, whatsoever. Ask yourself, could you ever envisage such a place with unrepentant child-molesters and murderers walking around?

        People are under the impression that God can do anything because He's God. Well, no He can't! For example, God cannot lie. God cannot sin or let sin go unpunished and remain righteous and Holy. God by His very definition has to be Holy and righteous, otherwise he wouldn't be God. So therefore, God cannot change His nature to placate mankind.

        Saying that God is evil for sending people to hell is a bit like saying that a judge who sentences a prisoner to death is evil, when he is merely doing his job and being a good judge.

        Human beings will never truly understand the meaning of righteousness. We were born into sin and we don't know anything different. Sin is all we've ever known. Period.

        God doesn't have a scale of sin, whereby, some sins are worse than others. To God a lie is as bad as a murder. The bible says:" All who sin fall short of the glory of god." and that, "if any one keeps the whole law, and yet, offends in one point, He is guilty of all." Neither can a person enter Gods kingdom through good works, as "even mankind's greatest works are like filthy rags to God."

      3. Edwinoel Tanglao profile image82
        Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        What can you say with this video about a man who 'dies, comes back to life, what he saw?' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSjzY0s … r_embedded Godspeed TS and all the rest.

    3. mediawizard profile image82
      mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Of course!

    4. johncimble profile image60
      johncimbleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      YES!!

    5. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      no...

      1. mediawizard profile image82
        mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Why?  Whats your logical reason?

    6. LewSethics profile image62
      LewSethicsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I live in Cleveland.

    7. daisynicolas profile image82
      daisynicolasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      This question always elicit extreme passionate responses from the religious (from any type of religions).  There will be no end in sight to this subject.  Each answer lies in someone's theory of their religious belief. 
      I, for one who had been through the path of different religions and then none, realized that human beings through thousands of years have to be creative to persuade people to join their beliefs.  Heaven is here with us as well as Hell is at every moment of our everyday life in every millisecond of our existence.

    8. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      _______________________

      No, the idea of hell came only in the New Testament.

      In Hebrew, hell is the grave, and/or a tomb

    9. Craig Suits profile image83
      Craig Suitsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hell is a complete and utter fairy tale invented thousands of years ago by an elite group of control freaks for one simple reason:
      To scare the bejusus out of you believers.
      Works well doesn't it?

      Lets try a little experiment and see if I live through the night:

      HEY SATIN! Beelsabub or what ever you dumb ass name is. Get your knarley ass up here right now if you got the onions, I'm gonna kick you butt into the next county. Chicken shit huh? Just as I thought. Yo mama is so fat they can see her from outter space. Are you really red and are those pimples or warts all over your fat ass. If you do decide to take me on, better bring a box of Preperation H with ya. You know what I'm gonna do with the arrow on your tail.

      I'm still here folks......

    10. David Legg 7 profile image84
      David Legg 7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      yes I do... and I want nothing to do with it.
      David

    11. Anil and Honey profile image36
      Anil and Honeyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Some people living as positive but some are Negative. Heaven is the part of positive or light or eternity. Devil is the king of negatives. He living with ugly people,if you believe in god you can see him everywhere. All problems are coming from the negative side

    12. Goatus OQueef profile image60
      Goatus OQueefposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No. There is no evidence for heaven or hell in a literal sense.
      The bible is just a book.

      I don't believe in Hogwarts either.

      1. mediawizard profile image82
        mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The bible is not just a book.  If your going to say their is no heaven/hell, you might as well prove that, "genus".  I don't believe in Hogwarts either, never watched the movie nether.

        1. Goatus OQueef profile image60
          Goatus OQueefposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No. the burden of proof lies with  the believer.
          If I believed in Hogwarts, unicorns, witches etc., I would have the responsibility of proving its existences

    13. 0
      ShadowKing!posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hell is an English word, coming into use almost 8 1/2 centuries after the New Testament was compiled into a single book.

      The original Hebrew & Greek words "hell" was translated over are:
      Gehenna- a literal valley, still in use today, in the Southern part of Jerusalem
      hades- the place of the dead (grave); the state of being dead (death)
      sheol- the place of the dead; the state of being dead
      tartaros- (as 1st Century Greek Jews knew it as) a condition of restraint.

      None of these words hold any original definition in association with "fire". Even you apply the mythological side to hades and tartaros, they still have no connection to "fire".

      However, in the case of Gehenna, its English rendering is "Valley of Hinnom". In the Old Testament, Hinnom Valley was used by sinning Israelites as a place of worshiping Moloch. They would burn their children with fire to this god. God told Jeremiah that one day he would use Hinnom Valley as a fire-related purifying site. A few centuries before Jesus was born (even during his lifetime) Hinnom Valley aka Gehenna was used to burn up Jerusalem's garbage and dead animals. Jesus told the Pharisees that one day Gehenna would be used by God as a fire-related purifying site.

      Enter the lake of fire, which if one studies the Bible thoroughly will be burning during the Millennium as a sign to those living who choose to rebel against the establish Kingdom of God on Earth.

      Hell, originating from Nordic culture, was a mythological goddess of the dead--with no association to fire. Beneath the earth, in the dirt, Nordes referred to the inner part of the Earth as "hell". British folk later would joke that when one dies he was "going to hell"...hint...the ground. Prior to 1611, English farmers would commonly imply they "loved burying their potatoes in hell".
      Thus, hell began loosely synonym with hades/sheol as in "burying a person or thing in the GROUND."

      1611 translators applied "hell" to the hades/sheol in this connection only. But some of the scholars believed that hades/sheol were connected to Gehenna. Thus "hell" got tagged to it too. Centuries later the "eternal-burning hell" doctrine arose. In the 1800s the eternal hell concept influenced British and America linguists to define hell with "fire association". Noah Webster followed suit.

      And now, today in this year of 2011, people who don't know ancient history, foreign languages, or British & Nordic etymological word origins...believe hell is a place of eternal fire, maggots, demons, and torment.

    14. amymarie_5 profile image87
      amymarie_5posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No. People create their own hell. Here on earth.
      Although I would love to believe Hitler and bin laden are forever burning in a pit of fire, there's no logic or proof. Hell was invented to scare people and keep em in line.

      1. 0
        ShadowKing!posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Obviously you didn't get the point I made in the comment above yours. The idea of an "eternal-burning hell of maggots, demons, and endless torment" is a fraudulent invention based off a physical place people buried their love ones.

        Again, the grave--a hole in the ground--was re-invented into an eternal-burning lake of fire.

        The valley of Hinnom--a verifiable place in Jerusalem--was re-invented into an eternal-burning lake of fire.

        sheol--the condition of being dead as a doorknob--was re-invented into an eternal-burning lake of fire.

        The lake of fire was re-invented into HELL.

        And hell originally meant...a hole in the ground. And that is logical and provable. The problem with this debate is most people don't fully realize that all these words and false ideas can be traced back to their very first origin. That's the proof that no learned scholar disagrees on, just the so-called "informed" people in forums disagree with verifiable evidence.

        See ya.

    15. A Thousand Words profile image81
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Nah. I do not believe in Hell. smile I don't really believe in "heaven" either, though.

      1. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
        VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It doesn't matter whether a person believes or not. The truth does not cease to exist just because someone does not want to believe in it!

        1. autumn18 profile image68
          autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The truth also doesn't begin to exist because someone wants to believe in it.

          1. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
            VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I didn't want to believe in it either, so that is where you are wrong. The truth found me, I didn't find it. I was lead down a proverbial one way path with only one direction to go in. Maybe I will write about it some day. 

            Once you know the truth, there is no going back and a persons life will never be the same again, and that is what happened to me and  I'm glad about that. I was basically faced with a choice. Its one thing to know the truth but it's another to face up to it and deal with it.

            Now I am obliged to get the truth out to as many people that will listen. It really does make me sad that I see so much ignorance and misinformation  from people about God and  the bible. Its one thing to reject the bible and it's message and ultimately God. But it's another thing to reject God based on ignorance and misinformation and that is what makes me more sad than anything.

            1. autumn18 profile image68
              autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not sure how my statement is wrong. I simply mean that truth (any truth not just religious) doesn't come to be true because someone wants to believe in it. It's basically what you said but the other way.

              I understand that what one believes is usually going to be truth for them. To me belief is like an opinion of what I hope is fact. But I know others will see it differently and that's ok.

              I'm not saying I think you are wrong. I think it's great that you are happy and wish that for everyone in the way that works for them.

              1. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
                VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I wish I could help you further, but I can't. No matter what I say I can never prove God to you or anyone else in this forum. But I do know this, that if a person searches for God with an open mind and open heart and asks God, whosoever He may be, to reveal himself to you/them, then He will.

                You won't necessarily  find Him in a Church as any Church is nothing more than an empty building, and it's the true believers that make up the body of Christ and not the building in and of itself. In fact, I would go so far as to say that a person should stay away from church and should only go to Church if that person feels led to go.

                There are too many people following religion in the vast majority of Churches and it's just as easy to be misled than it is to be edified and/or strengthened. Too, many people with too many different voices following their own flesh and doing their own will and passing it off as that of God's. Thanks but no thanks!

                Yes I am aware that what I said can be reversed, and I only said that you were wrong because you implied that I wanted to believe the truth as opposed to finding it. There is a difference and for me the difference is an important one. The truth is the truth and is not relative, that is, you have your truth and I have mine, as satisfactory and peaceful a solution as that seems at first glance, it is not.





                The truth is that the world and his dog claims to be Christian, but the truth is far from that.

                1. autumn18 profile image68
                  autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm not looking or asking for proof. Maybe some others are but I'm not. If a person searches for God they may find him.



                  I see what you mean about that statement. We can disagree though that you having your truth and me having mine is a peaceful solution. If people keep it peaceful then it is.

        2. A Thousand Words profile image81
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hmm, it's more that I just don't believe in it, than I don't "want" to believe in it. I don't believe that any true god, if there is one, would have the justification of creating such a place. There aren't enough reasons out there for it to exist. I don't believe that a god, if he is "love," is then that vengeful and, quite frankly, ugly. If he exists, and he is that vengeful with no just cause, then I guess I'll be a'burnin.'

    16. CloudExplorer profile image82
      CloudExplorerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Nope, I'm a spiritualist but I do not believe in such an existence, because you gotta look at the physical universe as a whole. 

      The center core of the earth may be the closest things to it or the surface of the sun, if people wanna try to prove such an existence scientifically, but other than that I don't think there is a such place, and I steer far away from the thoughts on it all.

    17. jonsswagger1978 profile image60
      jonsswagger1978posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I most definitely believe in hell.

    18. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Do you believe in hell

        Shae your thoughts ...?


         Hell,  like everything else ..........   is what we make it!
       
         I can't find it again, but I know that I read someplace that the fires of hell are contained within the spirit of Mankind; and if it wasn't said before, I"m Saying It Now!

          And who do we blame for that?

    19. yolanda yvette profile image61
      yolanda yvetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I believe there is a literal hell, just as there is a real Heaven.

  2. romari profile image60
    romariposted 5 years ago

    YES I BELIEVE IN HELL BASED ON WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image59
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Here is the very first verse in the OT regarding Hell, notice that Hell is right here on Earth...

      Deut. 32: 22-26: "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest Hell, Sheol-Hadees, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mishiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. The sword without and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs. I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men."

      1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
        AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        hmm...that's interesting...

        1. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          all of Deuteronomy 32 is awesome

    2. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Do you not have any courage to reason for yourself?  Why do you opt for the foolishly fraudulent delusions of long dead liars?  The bible has no validity!

    3. timburton287 profile image60
      timburton287posted 5 years ago

      Yes, there should be a suitable place for bad people when they die smile

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Envisioning the hell we've all heard of, can you seriously imagine one person whose behavior warrants that degree of punishment for an eternity?

        I think Hell is the belief that gives rise to many atrocities in our world. I think the ability to imagine and the desire to serve a god whose greatest ambition is to have an arena filled with never ending suffering; an arena the 'good citizens' can gaze down upon from the bleachers of heaven and cheer on the 'righteous' judgment of their god, is one of the greatest travesties of religion.

        The only thing that gives me comfort is knowing that, when everything is said and done and we know the other side, those who were unkind enough to believe in such will only suffer the disappointment of knowing their unkindness was a fantasy. Because, fairness would dictate that they spend a moment in the realm they prayed that others would inhabit.

        1. lone77star profile image90
          lone77starposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Personally, I wouldn't want anyone to go to Hell. But some people are stubborn. Hitler was stubborn. So was Stalin. So were Pol Pot and Ted Bundy. And so was the little old church lady who wouldn't be caught dead talking to a prostitute, for such was her lack of compassion and her sense of self-superiority.

          I suspect, though, that these are all superficial evils. The greatest evil is the ignorance (willfully ignoring) of the path back to spiritual awakening. By clinging to one's physical body and ego and one's physical reality as one's "master," one is deciding not to travel down the spiritual path. I suspect that is far more evil than anything one can do as a human.

          Perhaps that is why Hitler might have gone to heaven, if at the last moment he "saw the light." And why the little old church lady might be first in line to hell for her lack of compassion and sense of "holier than thou." Again, ego seems to be the culprit. That sense of self-entitlement to be right and to be superior.

          But why would it give you "comfort" to see the self-righteous suffer their own "hell?" That's not very compassionate. Would anybody ever wish that on you? I hope not.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image59
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I would think that one of the greatest evils would be to make claims that God opened up a boulevard of cars for one single person, for example. In other words, any kind of transference of responsibility, cause or effect to God may be seen as a great evil by God if in fact He did nothing to open up that boulevard. smile

          2. 0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Nice way to twist a statement. I said spend a moment in that realm. I would never wish an eternity of suffering on someone.

            Hell is human ego, wanting to sit in judgment as if they were a god. Luckily, it is no more than hateful imaginings.

        2. AshtonFirefly profile image81
          AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hmm....that would be to assume that the supposed "good people" would actually do that, instead of wishing that those people in hell as weren't there...
          But I understand the sentiment. It seems difficult for me or anyone to imagine that there exists such a terrible place, if indeed this "hell" that so many people believe in, is a "place of fire and brimstone" and eternal suffering, as most people believe it is. It just...doesn't seem compatible with the idea of a really good, loving God. I don't get it. I'm not exactly sure what all is written or said or believed about it.
          I tend more towards the opinion that hell, if it exists,  is either a state of mind, or earth itself. Just an opinion...

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I've never liked the opinion that earth is hell. If there is a God and the Bible has even a little truth, he said it was good when he made it. But, your heart can't help but go out to those who consider life so bad as to consider that.

            1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
              AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well...the idea that life was so bad to think that earth could be hell wasn't the reasoning that brought me to that conclusion. And I meant earth on more of an experiential level, not the actual physical earth itself.  There were a few references in the Bible that always made me make that consideration; whether or not those are really valid, I'm not sure.. the explanations of hell in the Bible are rather vague to me. I"m sure there are those more knowledgeable on the topic, but that one is one of the ones that has confused me the most, you know?

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I was assuming the view of hell on earth was born of experience. But, you make your own hell by perception. One man's hell is another man's opportunity to rise above and find the meaning and the good in their life. I guess. I don't know.

                But, your comment about those more knowledgeable does you a disservice, although it is humble. No one has knowledge. It is all belief.  I wonder why everyone doesn't simply demand fairness and compassion from their chosen path of belief.

                I always think about that movie Dogma. The church comes up with a bizarre plan that the angels set out to take advantage of. If they succeed, it will negate reality. But, the church has the power to affect change on a cosmic scale, per Catholic dogma.

                Those who believe in the Bible should live by that view. They claim to have a mediator. I'd think they would have faith he would mediate. They can not only create a beautiful afterlife for all if they chose to love and forgive all of mankind; but sincere love and forgiveness would change our reality also. Not saying it's possible, but why not stand in favor of the best for all? I simply don't get the Christian faith.

                1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
                  AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The church usually claims to have a mediator, but only for themselves...that's probably why they don't forgive most people they consider "evil." (even though they really have no call to make that judgement). Most Christians take a "holier-than-thou" attitude towards others. From what you said,  do you feel that, if Christianity is true, the church should pray for the best for everyone, and therefore change the afterlife of those who would normally go to hell? That the church's actions to forgive and love all mankind would change those people's afterlife, if they chose to mediate for those people? (sorry, wanted to make sure I understood you clearly...I probably got confused somwhere...heh..) If that were really the case, I would be glad. I wouldn't want anyone to go to hell, no matter who it is. I guess...it's hard for me to feel that the way people are, even if they do some things considered wrong, is so bad to deserve what the common understanding of hell, is. It doesn't really seem fair to me...Christian people aren't the only ones who love, care, protect, etc..it doesn't really make sense. That's what makes me wonder if hell isn't really what we think it is...if we have such a strong sense of compassion and justice and kindness towards people, wouldn't the God, who created us, have the same and more so? Idk. Confusing.

                  By those more knowledgeable, I guess I was referring to those who'd read more about it in the Bible...I haven't really studied that topic, nor am I clearly aware of what the Bible says about hell, either in Hebrew (for OT) or Greek (for NT) or the English translation. My understanding of Hebrew translations was limited to only several books of the Bible; I never translated many which referred to hell.
                    Hmm...I've never seen the movie Dogma. I should watch it somtime...

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, I've seen some posts by the evangelicals where they call Jesus their personal mediator.

                    But, yes. You understood me correctly. I've always wondered if we don't have the power of creation on a spiritual level. What if ultimately our vision, collectively,  determined what the afterlife was like. Keys to heaven kind of thing. What we lock, or unlock, here in this reality determines the other.

                    As crazy as that is, it is one major problem I have with the religious. They show no caution in what they wish for, at times. It is a selfish vision on many levels.

                    1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
                      AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Hmm...maybe we do have that power. never really thought about it in that way. If we do...then I agree..., if we do have that power,alot of us have failed miserably. Interesting theory...

                    2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      As Jesus looked at the burning garbage pit called ghenna he meant that everybody makes their own hell.

                      lol

                    3. brotheryochanan profile image61
                      brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      You don't even have the spirit. How can you possibly create on a spiritual level.
                      and yes what we do here determines what God thinks of us in HIS afterlife.

                      I think people who make up their own beliefs are far more selfish that those who follow the mandates of God.

                      crazy as that is smile

      2. 0
        jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What do you mean by "die"?

      3. AshtonFirefly profile image81
        AshtonFireflyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        but...who determines who is bad? hmm

        1. mediawizard profile image82
          mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus judges according to a book with Christians and non-christian.

          1. LewSethics profile image62
            LewSethicsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What book?

            1. mediawizard profile image82
              mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              A book that has an account of everyone person in the word and every sin that person has done.

              1. LewSethics profile image62
                LewSethicsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, A book.  It must be pretty big.  Maybe They went to computers by now.

                1. A Thousand Words profile image81
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  big_smile

              2. Anil and Honey profile image36
                Anil and Honeyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                This is not a physical book but spiritual. Jeans is a book. That will record our details.

          2. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
            VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "Jesus judges according to a book with Christians and non-christian."

            That's complete rubbish. Jesus does not judge between Christians and non-Christians. He will judge everyone, and I can assure you hell is already full of religious people, whether Christian or otherwise.

            Why don't you go and learn the difference between religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, instead of spouting misinformation and uninformed nonsense.

        2. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
          VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          God does!

          We live in a world where morals are relative. What one person finds bad or distasteful, another person doesn't and yet, even when you get a  majority consensus  on an issue like murder, guaranteed that someone will come along and have their own opinion, and moreover, do what is contrary that opinion and kill someone if they stand to gain from that persons death. 

          That is hardly surprising when we are told that we all come from monkeys and that it's just a case of survival of the fittest.  Life becomes meaningless and its all about what we can get or what we can make. We live for ourselves and our families and we only care about ourselves and feathering our own nests, so to speak. Welcome to materialism and your brave new world. With God thrown out of the window the limits are boundless and humankind can begin to live in a new age of peace and happiness? And if you believe that load of rubbish I feel sorry for you and anyone that believes it.

          Without God as an absolute authority, then everything is relative. There is no power that is higher, and God's existence makes His laws absolute and binding, whether you, I or anyone else, believes in Him or not.

    4. qeyler profile image80
      qeylerposted 5 years ago

      Yeah. We're there now

    5. Rising Caren profile image79
      Rising Carenposted 5 years ago

      I believe in Hell, Michigan

      But the whole "suffering after you die" thing? Meh. Not really.

    6. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago

      Using dream interpretation, the lake of fire as described in Revelation would be a place of destruction. 
        Kinda like the burn pit in my back yard, where I get rid of unwanted trash.  "IF" this fire in my burn pit was burning forever, it would be because I continue to add more trash to the fire.
        That piece of paper that I put on the fire yesterday doesn't continue to burn for ever.
         If I continue to have unwanted trash ?  And if I continue to put it on the fire, ...  I could say that the trash continues to burn or ever.

    7. melpor profile image88
      melporposted 5 years ago

      No. I do not believe there are places called Hell or Heaven. These are just mystical places created thousands of years ago by early civilizations and humanity has been holding on these ideas of these and other mystical places since those times.

    8. Mayflowerinc profile image60
      Mayflowerincposted 5 years ago

      According to God, Hell was created for Satan and his fallen angels, not for humans.

      1. mediawizard profile image82
        mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yup.  But because Adam and Eve, if we aren't saved we have to go there.

      2. Anil and Honey profile image36
        Anil and Honeyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hell is living in bad person's heart.

    9. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
      A.S.K.Preacherposted 5 years ago

      Ahh my friend but there is an afterlife. For many years there was no proof the earth was round. The "scientists" of the day thought the earth was flat. Eventually that was proven incorrect.
      What most people do not understand is that you cannot escape God. Psalm 139:8 If I ascend into heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in hell, you are there.
      Deuteronomy 4:24 Our God is a consuming fire. Do I believe in hell, yes. Our God is a Holy God. Anything that is not Holy will be destroyed by the Holy fire.
      This is why we need Jesus the only mediator between man and God. Since He was tempted as we and yet did not sin; He understands and makes intercession for us.
      Don't take my word for it. Read the Bible. As you earnestly seek and believe the power of God will become evident in a spiritual way. Then you will have understanding.

    10. aware profile image71
      awareposted 5 years ago

      hell is a flat tire on the freeway, without a spare.

      1. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Or having a spare there is only that stupid ineffective thing they call a jack which came with the car.

    11. Maquavia profile image61
      Maquaviaposted 5 years ago

      Yes i believe there is a hell, bcuz hell was made for people, it was made for the devil and his falling angels, than that's when  people start sinning, so now they go there

    12. Vapid Maven profile image61
      Vapid Mavenposted 5 years ago

      Hell does not exist nor does heaven therefore I do not believe.

    13. blake4d profile image78
      blake4dposted 5 years ago

      Everyone can create their own personal Hell, wheather that Hell is an actual reality or one that your belief in creates is up for debate. I do not believe in a Heaven or Hell created for our immortality or damnation eternally after this life. Only if you choose to enter such an existence would that seem necessary.
      http://s2.hubimg.com/u/5843057_f248.jpg

    14. paradigmsearch profile image88
      paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

      ? or is it x
      I shall proceed.

    15. Claire Evans profile image90
      Claire Evansposted 5 years ago

      Absolutely.  I was heard of an atheist who had a Near Death Experience and he claimed he saw hell and when he woke up, he wanted to convert to Christianity.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image59
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Wow! One whole atheist! Fascinating. lol

        1. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Wow! One whole point! you missed
          Fascinating.

        2. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That's one example, lol.  But, seriously, hell is not something to be laughed at.  When most people think of hell, they think of burning in flames but hell is a spiritual state, being totally enveloped by evil for eternity.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image59
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Seriously, it is.



            lol

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Do you think evil is something to be laughed at, like murder and child sacrifices? No? Then how can something that encompasses all that is evil be a laughing matter? It is only a laughing matter to you because you don't believe it exists.  There's nobody who would laugh if they actually knew hell existed.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image59
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I would tend to agree. However, one mans evil is another mans good.



                Because it's a fairy tale that is a denial of reality, hence people will push their responsibilities onto that rather than dealing with the problem itself.



                Only a child who still believes in Santa would believe it exists.

                 

                Yes, IF THEY KNEW! lol

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Are you 100% sure that hell doesn't exist? That there is not one iota of doubt and that you can't possibly be wrong? Be honest.  If the answer is no, then the POSSIBILITY that there may be a hell is not a laughing matter.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image59
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Then, let's line up all the "possibilities" of concepts like hell that could exist based on one iota of doubt...

                    Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Trolls, Orcs, Mild Mannered Black Friday Shoppers...

                    The list goes on and on... Are you ready to entertain every single concept in which not a single shred of evidence exists yet people really, really, want to believe they do. smile

                    1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                      brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      So if mankind had never thought of anything creative you would not offer this up as evidence?
                      If you are saying that jesus lied then that is another story but your childlike argument is not an argument at all neither is it evidence that there is no God in fact, - to me, fact, it falls in line with all your other posts... "change the channel please".
                      This is why you fanatics cause so many wars lol

                    2. Claire Evans profile image90
                      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      So you think that the possibility of a hell is funny? You know that it may exist, no matter how small, yet it is funny? I'd rather believe in a hell on this earth and find out it doesn't exist in death than vice versa.

                      Regarding your examples, are they in the league of hell? What's it to me if Santa Claus exists?

                      You think that there isn't evidence for the existence of hell but your own experiences in life doesn't constitute a "shred of evidence". 

                      I also believe there is no one who WANTS to believe in hell.

                    3. Castlepaloma profile image23
                      Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      It's OK troubled man

                      Most of us are going to hell according to most Christians, imagine meeting up with all your love ones again.

                      WHY?

                      Because God loves you

          2. mediawizard profile image82
            mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Good way of describing it.

    16. Night Magic profile image60
      Night Magicposted 5 years ago

      I do believe in Hell.  If you believe in the Bible, you know there's a Hell.  That's one of the reasons I live the best life I can here on earth.  I'm not one for taking unnecessary chances.

    17. Disappearinghead profile image89
      Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago

      The word Hell is a medieval English word that means covered or unseen. That is everyone who is dead is said to be in hell because they are unseen, in a strange non material state of unconsciousness. It fits the Jewish definition of Sheol and the Greek Hades; both of which mean grave, places of oblivion, being 'asleep', 'resting with our fathers'. These terms often translated as Hell in dodgy translations like the King James do not describe what the Church thinks of as hell.

      What the Church thinks of as Hell is the lake of fire or Gehenna. Gehenna is the Greek rendering of the Gay Hinnom, or the Hinnom valley to the south west of ancient Jerusalem. It had a notorious history where kings Asa and Manaseh and a large portion of Israel  burned their children in sacrifice to pagan gods, for which God spoke that his wrath would be upon them. King Josiah during a return to God revival turned the place into a rubbish dump. Historically it was continually infested with maggots (worms) and set on fire. Thus the rubbish was consumed in a place where the worm never dies and the fires are not quenched.

      If God's wrath is upon Asa and Manaseh for burning their children in fire, then anyone who claims God will do the same to His children makes God an evil hypocritical monster.

      Gehenna entered Jewish folklore as a place where after the death the soul is purified by fire before entering Heaven. Jesus refers to this folklore in His parables.

      The lake of fire speaks of a place of consuming the rubbish again, but should not be singled out as the only literal item in Revelation full of symbology. God is a consuming fire, so it seems sensible that this jake of fire is God Himself. God is often asked  in Churches to send his consuming fire to purify the soul/person/lifestyle. So why does the fundie think that God will purify them with his fire but utterly obliterate the unbeliever with the same fire? Add in the brimstone aka sulphur which was used as a cleansing agent, a fumigant, a purifier, and you have a picture of God cleansing and purifying people. Taken together with Jewish folklore, and we have a picture of this 'hell' bing a temporal place accoding to the judgement of our works done in the Earth. At the end of it, all people finally are released.

      1. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        brimstone is also a symbol of judgment as in Sodom and Gomorrah. its sulphur. I don't know of anyone who would use sulphur to clean.

        Why would God purify some and obliterate others? Because God is both judge and father. To purify is an aspect of God and to judge is an aspect of God.

        Nowhere does it say people are released from 'hell' or the lake of fire.
        Nice catch on the lake of fire being God though. Why in revelations do we look at so much as being symbolic then when we get to the LofF we interpret it as literal?

        nice take on ghenna and that confusing to some worm situation. Literal worms eating a spirit .. gotta wonder.

        1. Disappearinghead profile image89
          Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Uses of sulphur as a cleansing agent:

          http://www.georgiagulfsulfur.com/history.htm

          That's why it was used symbolically on Sodom; to cleans the land, and why it is used symbolically in the lake of fire.

          Now if God is this consuming fire it makes sense to link this up with 1 Cor 2:13-15. God will test all men's works with fire, much will be consumed, but they nevertheless will be saved. Oh in this fire there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth as it is indeed a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. So after those in the lake of fire are cleansed, they are released, which is in harmony with Jewish folklore on Gehenna which Jesus talked about.

          Now as there aren't many Christians walking around maimed because they cut off hands and feet that cause sin (the Church says we should not literally do this) then how can they say God will literally consume the whole body in Gehenna. You can't take half of a Jesus statement as symbolic and the other half as literal.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image61
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sodom and gomorrah were not cleaned, they were obliterated.
            In order for your cleaning example to be correct there should have been survivors who repented but as usual, the sinners were obliterated, their works, as in city, etc, completely destroyed. In the story of S and G God said he was judging. Again there is no mention of anything being released from the lake of fire, the second death.

            Jewish folklore are not scripture. only scripture is scripture.

            I do not understand how you arrived at paragraph 3. There is no release in ghenna. It is for garbage which is completely burned up and that which the flames do not fully consume the worms consume till every last trace of unconsumed garbage is utterly eradicated.

            1. Disappearinghead profile image89
              Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Nice to know that your friendly next door neighbour who chats to you about the weather and looks after your cat while you are away, but just hasn't yet heard a sufficiently brilliant argument that convinces them of God's existence,...... Is just garbage to be burnt. hmm

              1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                you can't ignore S and G being obliterated and the sinful residents destroyed? Trust me, obliteration is far far more merciful that eternal existence apart from God.
                And by the way, immortality is not something everyone born has, immortality is a gift of God.
                The garden..  Genesis 3:22   ...and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
                Romans 6:23   For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    18. romari profile image60
      romariposted 5 years ago

      I believe hell is a place where wicked people are punished through a high-degree heat of fire or lake of fire as what the bible describes it.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image59
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The bible also says that anyone who does not join the faith is one of those wicked people. Do you believe that, too?

        1. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Those who have not repented from their sins and believe in Jesus christ are of wickedness.
          It is not surprising that Jesus death on the cross can be easily tip toed around.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image59
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol



            Sure, in reality. But, in the "Christian Reality" you've created for yourself, anything is possible; talking donkeys and snakes, people coming back from the dead after being brutally beaten and tortured, ghosts, goblins, demons, etc.

            Gut blasting, seam ripping, side splittingly hilarious that grown adults still cling to those kind of beliefs.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              hmmm.
              talking donkeys nope
              taking snakes    nope
              people coming back from the dead... only Jesus christ, none until the ordained resurrections.
              Ghosts    nope
              goblins   nope
              demons   nope
              Looks like more of your assumptions.

              but you are right grown adults do come to christ. Why? Because their hearts are not hardened. They are not predisposed to spread a doctrine that Christ spoke against:
                John 17:14   I have given them thy word; and the WORLD has hated them, because they are NOT of the world, even as I am NOT of the world.
                John 15:18   If the world hate you, know that it hated me before it hated you.
                John 15:19   If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are NOT of the world, but I have chosen you OUT of the world, therefore the world hates you.
                 Mark 4:19   And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
                 Mark 8:36   For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

              CHRISTIAN REALITY
              the world you preach is NOT the proper doctrine AND you are a false preacher of false ways.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image59
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Nope, they were claims made by Christians here. 



                lol So, you post a bunch of biblical quotes from a couple of medieval morons who hated life and the world around them, so because you hate that too, you have to follow their words.

                *hint* The world has changed since then. lol

                1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Nothing has changed since then.
                  And you are still full of


                  assumptions.

              2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                bo
                Talking donkeys iOld Testament bible story the prophet Ballaam who suppose to curse Isreal

                Taking snakes or was it a serpent> News flash Creation Scientists Search for Talking Snake Bones in Africa (Genesis 3:6) The Bible does identify the Satan and the serpent as one and the same. (Revelation 20:2)

                Ghosts goblins   demons   For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but justice, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost
                Romans 14:17 -
                GHOSTS, ghouls, goblins, genies, demons are spirit entities that people of various religions believe wicked spirits, sometimes referring to them as demons. (1 Corinthians 10:20, 21; James 2:19

                1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  the word associated with balaams talking donkey is defined as 'loosed' and not speech. To think that a donkey or a snake would talk is to enlarge or shrink the lung capacity to push air passed humanistic vocal cords, to reshape the teeth and tongue, and to give the animal an awareness of words and meanings... loosed means the jaw hung slack and that this is the equivalent of a ventriloquist act.

                  Bible does not identify satan with the serpent in genesis that is an inference of the church. Rev 20:2 talks not of satan as satan but of rome, the ancient serpent is egypt. Scoff if you will but this is a letter written from prison, screened by guards and to talk against rome was an act of sedition and punishable by death.

                  There is no evidence in the OT of any floating spirits. David talking of his departed son said:
                  2 Samuel 12:23   But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
                  1 Corinthians 8:4   As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
                  Revelation 9:20   And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship DEVILS, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which NEITHER CAN see, nor hear, nor walk:
                  Devil and devil are not floating around spirits as defined by the NT and the OT. They are nothing, non existent. They cannot see or hear or talk.

                  1 Corinthians 10:19   What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
                    1 Corinthians 10:20   But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
                  Idols and devils are nothing. They are wrong beliefs. Wrong because they do not exist. G1142 to distribute fortunes. These are persian beliefs in beings that distribute fortunes, both good and bad. The western thinking due to catholic doctrine changed the false beliefs of devils and made them all bad and then claimed they were fallen angels. You really have to understand the NT context and the history of church beliefs to see through the veil about this.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    bo

                    A Xmas gift for you

                    You tube Quiz Show (Bible Contradictions)

    19. brotheryochanan profile image61
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

      I do not believe in hell

      I have resolved this completely

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Good

        Next you will not need the bible at all.

        The word hell found in the King James and other English versions of the Bible, ... times in the Old Testament, and “hell” is used 22 times in the New Testament.

        If you do not believe in hell why even bring it up twice on Earnestshub thread, why act like a zombie.

        Would you like a postcard later on from Ernest  homeless village,

    20. LookingForWalden profile image61
      LookingForWaldenposted 5 years ago

      If someone is a masochist wouldn't hell be heaven?

    21. Disturbia profile image61
      Disturbiaposted 5 years ago

      No.

    22. barryrutherford profile image37
      barryrutherfordposted 4 years ago

      Not today  tongue

    23. whoisbid profile image77
      whoisbidposted 4 years ago

      If you have been in hell you believe it exists

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I don't see it as a place where bad people go. I see it more as a here and now alternative to a paradisical here and now. I also believe we come back, either by consequence of choices made in a previous life, or simply because we have no where else to go.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          and what experiential evidence do you have that we come back?
          Do we come back as dogs or cats or bumbly bees? maybe a tree?

          1. mediawizard profile image82
            mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No

          2. A Troubled Man profile image59
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You're asking for experimental evidence? YOU? lol lol <--- coveted double laughie - well earned

            1. LewSethics profile image62
              LewSethicsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Good one Troubled.

            2. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              As i am required to bring evidence to the table.. should not others also be required to bring their proof as well????

              no icon for egg... well troubled you get the not coveted double eggie on the facie.. well earned.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image59
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The requirement is there, but your evidence is not.

          3. Druid Dude profile image60
            Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            We come back as people. We have always been man, and we will always be man. This is my own belief. Believe as you wish. I was answering the question of the forum. Don't gitcher panties in a bunch. It is no big deal. Thou doth protesteth too much.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Just wondering what supposes people to think reincarnation is true, especially if ya come back as a bug.

              Thanks for responding, although you did not cite proof you just gave me your opinion, which doesn't really amount to much unless maybe you got it from some holy book. I do not think any of us are smart enough to pick and choose from all sorts of available options and roll lucky 7's into eternity by picking exactly what is needed.

    24. pstraubie48 profile image89
      pstraubie48posted 4 years ago

      i do. i believe hell is eternal separation from God.

      1. Cassie Smith profile image74
        Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        My definition of hell is a little like that.  Instead of eternal separation, I define hell as moving away from the path of God.  What would cause the eternal separation?  Eternal is a very long time.

    25. goldenpath profile image81
      goldenpathposted 4 years ago

      It's both a realm and also a state of being which has been self imposed accordingly by our choices.  A realm because the negative must be separate from the growth of the positive.  A state because true hell is the adverse path of the heart.

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I believe that if God loses a single solitary sheep...then, as a shephard, he sucks...he isn't all powerful. His omnipotence is lost. Besides...he made us so...RIGHT? Look deeper and the illusion begins to waver, a face becomes apparent, staring intently at this "game" this "stage", and all the players involved.

        1. Druid Dude profile image60
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          ...and it's name is MAN!

        2. goldenpath profile image81
          goldenpathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well, I respectfully disagree.  A shepherd won't use permanent fences for his sheep.  They have agency of freedom to choose.  Freedom to choose is absolutely essential to our eternal progression and expansion.  The loss of any one of us is a sign that the Plan works and that we are choosing our paths.

    26. calpol25 profile image76
      calpol25posted 4 years ago

      I believe we live our hell on earth it can be heaven or hell, but its what you make it.. smile

      1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
        AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        maybe smile

    27. paradigmsearch profile image88
      paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

      Do you believe in hell?
      http://img.poptower.com/pic-60632/california-dmv-field-offices-tru-tv-show.jpg?d=600
      Yes.

      1. mediawizard profile image82
        mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That's not hell!  Hell is a spiritual state of total and unendurable pain.

        1. paradigmsearch profile image88
          paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I rest my case!!! lol

          1. mediawizard profile image82
            mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            When if you think that's hell.... if your not a christian, then you just wait!lol lol lol lol

            1. paradigmsearch profile image88
              paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              http://www.freewebs.com/mapps/Hell_Planes.jpg
              Nooooo.......  Noooooo........   Noooooooo..........

              1. mediawizard profile image82
                mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It's not that bad at all!  IT'S MUCH WORSE!  And it's in a spiritual place.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Can I check behind another door, something more spiritual feeling, less screaming

                2. rbe0 profile image60
                  rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Do not be foooled by the picture of the friendly fuzzy puppy in the avatar of this user....

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Also be careful of the bunny plague

            2. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That's not funny.  Nobody should laugh at the thought of someone going to hell.   I'm not referring to you hear in my next example, but some Christians are going to be shocked that God will reject them despite the fact they were Christian.  Someone cannot go to hell for ignorance, like an atheist.  God is the only judge and that is why I don't worry about anyone's soul because God is the most fair and compassionate being ever to have existed.

              1. mediawizard profile image82
                mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I know thousands of Christians are going to be going to hell, because they thought they just had to be baptized or just become a Christan.  It is a serious bizz.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow. That's a hard interpretation. I assume you consider yourself one of the lucky ones that won't be headed to hell?

                  1. mediawizard profile image82
                    mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yup and it's NOT because of my good deeds people!  That's what allot people believe.

                    1. 0
                      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Well, aren't you so very special. roll

                2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  mediawizard   Welcome to the forum

                  Only thousands of Christian will go to  hell? You are far too kind, maybe when the christian rethink and cancel hell, then they can rethink their own over obedience to the bible

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                    brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    outer darkness is what is described when speaking of christians who do not meet the grade. It is different than the lake of fire. Weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth is associated with it.
                    Yes Christianity is no joking matter. It is very serious, this is why many people do whatever they can to avoid knowing of it, and being persuaded by it. Its commitment to the max or near max, yet the ways of a loving father make is so very easy to attain, yet some may not have enough oil in their lamps, which teaches of a lackadaisical approach even after salvation, which is spoken of as a "lesser reward".

              2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Claire Evans

                I thought you were going to try being an agnostic for a wail. Dose the fear of hell keep drawing you back into the fight club?

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You can't be an agnostic once you know.  That contradicts the word.  If I knew that God threatened me with hell if I did not worship Him, I'd tell Him to get lost.  Perfect love casts out all fear and I adore Christ.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    “Jesus talked more about hell than about heaven,” in the total number of verses devoted to the subject,

                    If you are christian agnostic , it may mean you are half way there anyways. We will never know the correct answer for the group that goes to heaven in the end. Maybe I will win, with the right answer, :Everyone is god:

                    1. Claire Evans profile image90
                      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      I am not a Christian agnostic! Where's you get that idea from? There is no such thing as a Christian agnostic.  An agnostic doesn't believe one can know if there is a God or not.  I know Jesus is the son of God.

                      Everyone is God...lol.  That's why the world is in such a mess.

    28. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
      schoolgirlforrealposted 4 years ago

      I don't like the idea of it.

    29. Daniel Carter profile image90
      Daniel Carterposted 4 years ago

      I believe hell is in your head. You get hell out of your head, and suddenly anyplace can be much more heavenly.

      1. mediawizard profile image82
        mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        My live is only like a piece of heaven.  Life is lovely with the Lord in it and can't get any better!smile

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You are such a young pup.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image61
            brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Excellent!
            Nothing wrong with that.
            God is good and its wonderful that people have that vivacity, given time we will see the benefits of such zeal.
            Nothing to criticize here folks, move along..

    30. GoldenBird profile image60
      GoldenBirdposted 4 years ago

      Hell is Falsehood.

      1. mediawizard profile image82
        mediawizardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Prove it.  I already proved it exists, look at my other posts up at the top.

        1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
          AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No one can prove anything indefinitely...the best we can do is "prove" something for ourselves.

          1. A Thousand Words profile image81
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Subjectivity at it's best. Man will see what he wishes to see, based on his own perspective and what he feels life has taught him.

        2. GoldenBird profile image60
          GoldenBirdposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You got it wrong- I meant hell is formed when one loses Truth. Hell exists. It comes when one starts lying.

        3. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          mediawizard

          Prove to us you went to hell and came back in order to prove to us hell exist.

          Satan introduces Jesus to hell and the folk in hell hate Jesus. Jesus tries to convince everybody that he’s suffering more than them.   Would you tried to convince the folks in hell you are suffering more them, here on earth, all because God love you. 

          To be saved, a person must become guilty before God, and believe on Jesus Christ Bible makes it clear that there is only one way to heaven,meaning most people will go to hell.

          To feel guilty my whole life, would be hell on earth for me.

    31. athena2011 profile image60
      athena2011posted 4 years ago

      No I do not believe in Hell. I believe that we all go to Heaven eventually. No proof just my belief.

    32. Seek-n-Find profile image87
      Seek-n-Findposted 4 years ago

      There are actually quite a few people who have died and have claimed to have gone to heaven or hell.  If you study the accounts, there are lot of similarities in the testimonies.  I recently wrote a Hub about reasons why people believe in God and my last reason was because of those who have died and come back to life...at the end of the Hub I included links to videos where people tell of their journey.  I think that many's testimonies are quite compelling--and not just their testimonies--but how their lives radically changed afterwards.  I think in just about every story I've heard, the person who went to hell and came back has made it their life mission to tell others that it is a real place and to give warning.  I'm sure youtube has tons of videos.  Of course not all are likely to be legitimate, but I believe that many are!

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Plenty of  people have had a near dead experience and many other people thought they were dead at first. Yet  they raised up with a second breath.

        If one of them was partly decomposed and came back to life like a zombie and then they completely healed, I might start to think it is possible. People in trauma hospitals or mental hospital will think of all of kinds of very strange things as real wail on your heavy drugs.

        Bible claims Jesus  alone could raise the dead not be held back by death in the grave. Only person to be born of a virgin. Muslim believe the death of the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the apostle of God'. The Romans did not kill him, nor did they crucify him and majority of Muslims believe this theory.


        I don't agree that anyone has come back from the spirit world to tell the story of the after life.

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sometimes people are considered clinically dead, which is different to being dead in a coffin.  My mother died when her heart stopped but could be revived.  It think when you get to the "other side", you cannot return.  Sometimes death is instant, other times it is a process being earth and the after-life.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image59
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Sure, and you'll find those accounts to be from religious believers whose accounts of heaven and hell are strangely and coincidentally similar to the beliefs in heaven and hell they were taught to beleive.

        smile

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The ones I'm interested in are the ones atheists talk about:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3adbayvKWA

          1. A Troubled Man profile image59
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I saw that. Whitaker says that he was lying on his "death bed" and said he needed to be saved by Jesus and that he believed heaven and hell were real. Where is the atheist in this video?

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, I was ambiguous.  I meant to say that I am interested in the videos with atheists having experienced hell, like Whitaker, not that there was any discussion by other atheists.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image59
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Whoever claims to experience hell is lying, delusional or has mental issues, Whitaker included.

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  How would you know for a fact if he was lying? You aren't him.  You don't know what he went through. He makes a very pertinent remark in his story.  But what IF hell was real? He believed in reason and the universe and had no other reason to deviate from that belief. 

                  Ask yourself: What IF? I am telling you right now that place exists and it is a spiritual thing like Whitaker described.  The one thing you never can claim is that you were never told it didn't exist.  You can either take this to heart and pursue a personal journey for the truth or you can troll these forums forever like a soul in purgatory, trying to convince yourself it's all goobldigook. Do something constructive with your time.  Is this doing yourself any good belittling other people? Does it make you feel good?

                  I believe in the sharing of opinions, belief and facts in a respectful manner, which means allowing one to speak without shouting them down or laughing at them every second sentence.

                  Get your priorities right.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image59
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    And, what if even 50% of all the other religions that spouted some sort of reward/punishment system for their followers were real, we would all still be awaiting our eternal fates as those gods decide whose heaven or hell we reside.

                    What if Trolls, Orcs and Middle Earth were real? Ask yourself: What IF? lol



                    And, I can see no one single reason not to believe you. lol



                    As usual, the personal insults, right on time. I really don't need to convince myself it's all gobbledegook, you are doing a splendid job of that already.



                    I am not shouting you down, don't make up accusations.

                    If you don't want me to laugh, don't say things that are funny.



                    Okay, I could pretend the world is a magical place in which gods, demons and aliens ruled our lives from behind the curtain of invisibility and we are but automatons being manipulated by them.

                    Then, I'll write a bunch of hubs and posts about it, sharing my pretend world with everyone else. smile

                    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                      Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Sound like the Movie 300

                    2. Claire Evans profile image90
                      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Hypothetically, if the other religions are true, so be it.  It cannot be so, however, as Jesus is the son of God. 

                      I did not pettily personally insult you.  I don't do pettiness.  I'm giving you constructive criticism.  You aren't doing yourself any good.  Don't you think you are wasting your time here? I don't understand why you are here, actually.

                      For example, if this hub was about Muslims saying Allah is God, I'm not going to say it's fairy tales.  I will give a constructive rebuttal. You are not.

                      Sigh.  We are going around and around in circles.  It's pretty tiresome.  Let's more on, k? You don't have to address me.

                2. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
                  A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  A Troubled Man
                  Very interesting that you are so quick to judge someone else's experiences. How would you know?

        2. Seek-n-Find profile image87
          Seek-n-Findposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          There are also accounts from people with no religious beliefs--from people with no training or grid for "religion" or God.  I firmly believe that some people are open to searching for truth, and others only search for that which builds the case for their own beleifs.  It takes faith to believe in heaven/hell/God and it take faith not to believe in heaven/hell/God.  You make room for what you focus on.  I once had a friend who was a very passionate Atheist.  I said to him, "If you are so sure that what you believe is right, then you have nothing to fear by looking at all the alternatives and searching out all of the evidence."  Up until this point he only tried to convince me of why he thought God was not real.  His worldview was quite narrow, however, and he'd never actually dug very deep in a broad sense to really consider evidence. He only paid attention to things that built his case and ignored things that he couldn't explain.  After two years of searching (as a lawyer would gather evidence for a court trail) he was convinced that it is possible that God may exist.  He stated that he did find compelling evidence and that he could not validly disprove God's existence.  But even this did not change his mind.  He had an encounter with God--and he was radically transformed. He knew beyond a shadow of a doubt in God's realness after this encounter--not because he had found the "best answer" but because he actually found God.  Why am I saying all this?  Because as interesting as it can be for people to state their opinions, etc. in these forums or through articles, conversation, debates, etc., it can sometimes be quite pointless if a person is not truly searching for truth.  If people want to know if God really exists--if Jesus is God--if the Bible is God's Word and if so, that would mean in the reality of Heaven and Hell--if people want to know these things--then in addition to searching out evidence (which I do support) I encourage people to search out God, Himself.  Kind of a "God, if you are real, show me and teach me truth" kind of prayer.  A person with a heart that really seeks truth will find it if they keep seeking.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Nicely said.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Seek-n-Find

              well yes,. when you do find truth in something  beautiful

              In North America the greatest pass time is lying, after working out  the higher and lower degree of truth you will usually find your answer somewhere in the middle grounds

          2. A Troubled Man profile image59
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I seriously doubt that.



            And, then there are those of us who learn about reality and the world around us rather than building a faith based fantasy with myths and superstitions.



            The former is true while the latter is false.



            Sorry, but I don't swallow that tall tale.



            You are not searching for truth, that is a fact. You follow a religion that has brainwashed you into believing it is the one and only truth. That is the epitome of a narrow worldview.



            Considering there are many religions all spouting the same nonsense as your religion, that their God is the one and only God and we should all seek out those Gods, your encouragement completely ignores those facts. smile

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Religion and atheists way of thinking is too extreme for me, yet to  incorporate the upsides of both dose help fine my middle grounds. The worst downside of both I either tolerate it or ignore it.

              Don't worry,  Religion will shrink a lot in 20 years and be more replace by the spiritual age age. Then atheists may double to a whole 6% of the world's population by method of reason, for absences of reason is evil

              1. A Troubled Man profile image59
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol

              2. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You are partially right,  Castlepaloma.  The Abrahamic religions will be abolished in favour of a new spiritual age.  There's no room for atheism, though.  You have to worship Lucifer under the New World Order.

                1. Cagsil profile image84
                  Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  lol lol

                2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, the new world order belongs to the Christians and their hell concept, let them fight each other to the death of their religion, Most people will govern themselves better than the our Government dose today.   The new spiritual mixed bag will be able to share and bare the souls freely, it's all in a vision I had about the spiritual age. Aready most people I meet tell me they spiritual rather than religious.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    What on earth? What gave you the idea that the New World Order belongs to Christians? World leaders around the world are talking about it.

                    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                      Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                       For conspiracy theories about world government, USA fought the Germany because they want own the world. The  U.S. financial woes lead to new world order?  The Gulf crisis was seen as a reminder that the U.S. must continue to lead, and that military strength as it  does matter,

                       Like all human abuses and their plans hits the fan, it will be the  80%consciousness of of the people, who are the true world leaders. As it has been  through out human history, and they will end up changing things for the better.

              3. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
                A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Castlepaloma
                If indeed religion shrinks in 20 years as you say; then you will see governments taking over peoples' lives in the way the Bible predicts. You will be in the tribulation and will be given a choice. Will you accept a world religion that will lead you to hell or will you die for Jesus?

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Going by the New and Improved product-  NT

                  If we continue to live by biblical time hardships and their low consciousness lifestyle. Our human race would not evolve for the better, so it must move forward. IT’s the consciousness of the people not the popularity of the Government vote who are the true leaders throughout world history. I'm more optimistic about our human race than most people and living in the pass is not better than living for today, by living for today improves our future.

    33. Mathew James profile image79
      Mathew Jamesposted 4 years ago

      Humans are made from dust and humans will perish in the fire.

      Spirits are made from fire and spirits exist in the fire.

      Hell is only reserved for Satan and the Evil Spirits to live in forevermore. The unbelievers perish at the end of the Third Woe.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        They say it's untrue, some may call me a a liar
        A few will get to go to heaven, billion will be set on fire

        Come on God don't light me on fire,
        and my whole family on fire
        That's is no way to retire
        OOOOWWWWWWOOOW

    34. 0
      Emile Rposted 4 years ago

      I don't care how many of you believe in this bs, but I just wish you would corral the insanity within your own heads. I just left the cancer ward at the hospital. Some insensitive and perverted Christian had left a pamphlet in the waiting room. A cartoon pamphlet a child would pick up. Detailing the fires of hell in living color. What sick, demented and pathetic *ssh*le would do that in a place where people are grieving? My opinion of Christianity has hit a new low.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Agree

        Hell is the most worst concept man has ever invented

      2. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A pamphlet a child would pick up... way to sugar the bowl lol.
        Its interesting that you felt you had to manipulate ill feelings by exploiting the child factor, when in fact you do not know what would happen. There is of course no room for an opinion that some adult picked it up and his life was changed...
        My opinion of your honest assessments have hit a new low.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Since I know how hopelessly clueless you are on the subject, I think your statement is hilarious. smile

        2. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          brotheryochanan

          I won't tell you how to live and ....
          You don't tell me how to fear God and repent from hell

          Deal

          Why? because God love you

      3. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
        A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Emile R
        That apparent insensitivity is an attempt to show the necessity of thinking about an afterlife. I apologize that some of us make those types of mistakes. This is why so many call us hypocrites. We are sinners. We make mistakes. But we know there is an afterlife. We do not want anyone to go to hell. We understand we were headed there ourselves.
        Instead of being upset, try understanding. Ask those persons who left the phamplet. Be open to a discussion. You might come to an understanding.
        Unfortunately there are those who are misguided Christians. You have to make that distinction.
        God is love and does not want any of us to go there.

        1. A Thousand Words profile image81
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I think if God didn't want any of us to go there:

          1) He would not have created Lucifer who became Satan

          2) Instead of causing Satan to be banished in a horrid place of eternal punishment, He could have erased him from existence, since He wrote him into it.

          3) He would not have put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil into the Garden until we were ready to eat from it, instead of playing a "game" to see if we would disobey Him or not.

    35. chuckbl profile image83
      chuckblposted 4 years ago

      Are u still alive?

      1. Craig Suits profile image83
        Craig Suitsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No I'm dead I guess. Right after I challanged ol Beelsabub above, a black hole opened up in the floor by my computer. Three black things came out and dragged me down the hole and put me in this dingy room. It must be a reception center or something like that. I can hear screaming outside and it's pretty hot here too. Hey, it can't all be bad, there's a really "hot" blond sitting right across from me. I wonder if they have co-ed dorms here...
        Gees...OF COURSE I'M STILL ALIVE...

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          i'M HOT

        2. Mathew James profile image79
          Mathew Jamesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          stay away from the hot blonde, sounds like it could be a Jinn

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Only once went out with a hot blonde, lucky  for me, she was smart too

    36. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
      VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago

      Is hell real? The bottom line is yes it is real. It all boils down to this...

      Jesus was a real person who can be verified by history that he really existed. The only disagreements are with who He claimed to be. Jesus claimed to be more than a man, so much so, that the religious leaders of his day perceived Him as a threat to their established religion, and eventually they killed Him.

      Jesus didn't claim to be a man. He didn't claim to be a prophet. He claimed to be God. One such occasion was with a confrontation of the Pharisees where He explicitly stated He was God in no uncertain terms. Below is the bible verse with the original OT scripture it refers to.

      Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

      Joh 8:57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
      Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

      Now the point is this...if Jesus was just a man with delusions of grandeur,  then, to allow himself to be nailed to a wooden cross believing His own lies,  makes him insane, by anyone's standards.

      If however, He was exactly who He claimed to be, then, that makes Him God and sovereign lord over everything in the universe and beyond. He claimed that His kingdom was not of this world! Moreover, Jesus talked more about hell during His ministry on earth than he did about heaven. He warned it was a place to avoid at all costs. There is no middle ground to be had here...either you believe that Jesus was who he said he was, in which case you have to believe what He said, or you don't. It's that simple. You can theologian-ize it all you want but there is only one truth and the truth will still exist, regardless of whether a person wants to believe it or not.

      There are also some people who believe the scriptures were made up, and that the writers of the bible conspired in some way to make Jesus out to be God, and moreover, some people go as far as saying that Jesus Himself conspired with His disciples to fulfil the prophecies about Him that were written in the Torah(OT). There are a few problems with that theory, in that, they simply don't add up. I'm sure they make great documentaries and sell lots of books for their authors but, sadly for them, are fundamentally flawed.

      Firstly, if you know anything about the bible, you will know that the three gospels differ in their accounts of Jesus life. This is exactly what you would expect from independent eye-witness accounts, who concentrate on different aspects of the same story. Differing accounts are not what you would expect from someone who had conspired to make the whole thing up.

      Secondly, there are many things that were simply out of the hands of Jesus or His disciples, one such example being His treatment in the hands of the Roman authorities and the type of death that He would die...oddly enough, predicted by the OT Prophets centuries before His birth.

      In addition, women's testimony was not given credence in  a Jewish court of law, such was the Jewish culture at the time. It's ironic then, that the first people to witness the resurrection of Jesus were women...a bit odd for someone/His disciples to make up, wouldn't you think? If you were going to make up a convincing story, then, you would hardly use women to verify what you wanted people to buy into.

      No! The gospels are real. Jesus is real and moreover He is exactly who He said He was and therefore, Hell is real because Jesus said it was. One day, regardless of what we believe, we are all going to stand before Him in Judgement and we are going to know for sure.

      I would be the first to agree that the concept of Hell is a harsh one and it took me months to finally accept the reality of it. But outside of Gods kingdom, the only place you can go is Hell. Nothing corrupt or tainted can ever into Gods Kingdom and outside of that there is only Hell.

      The bible states that there are many levels of hell and one such place is outer darkness. The bible also states that we see through the glass darkly and we don't know everything there is to know. The sooner we can accept that the better!

      1. Craig Suits profile image83
        Craig Suitsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Lots of logic and common sence here. However, you seem to refer to god as a viable entity. There goes the logic and common sence. No one on this planet knows a damn thing about any diety that they can show even a little bit of proof about.
        You also state that there is nothing else between heaven or hell. How do you know that? Do you really know if either exists?
        Your on the right track but I would suggest this word group to be added to your lexicon, "I don't know".
        Now that's the real truth about 99.9% of all our religious questions.

        1. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
          VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The fact is, that there is more than enough proof of Gods existence, for someone who is searching with an open mind, an open heart and is prepared to leave their pre-conceived ideas on religion and Christianity, at the proverbial door.

          I can show you a healing and you will say that its psycho-schematic, in that, the person willed their self better. I can show you someone being raised from the dead and you will no doubt say that the person wasn't really dead and were just in a comatose state, thus denying, that any real miracle took place.

          No matter what the situation that presents itself,  someone with a hatred for the concept of God, will always find an alternative explanation to rationalize any and every given scenario or miracle  away. I'm sure that if Jesus Christ came back tomorrow with a legion of angels,  there would be plenty of people who would put it down to an alien invasion, rather than admit it was the return of Jesus and that God really exists.

          It is often said that that seeing is believing? Don't believe a word of it! The trouble is not with our eyes but our hearts. We, as in the vast majority of human species,  hate the idea of God and being held accountable to Him for our deeds and actions. I should know I am/was that person before I became a believer.

          It's ironic that in science you can have any hypothesis you want to explain away a set of data, as long as its not God. The irony is that it's not very scientific to dismiss a whole hypothesis just because you don't agree with it. Yet   that is exactly what science does...despite the fact that two of our greatest scientists, Newton and Einstein both believed in the existence of God and that they were doing nothing more than discovering the laws that were set in motion  by the creator.

          You may say that, its only because you cannot prove God that that hypothesis is not an option. Yes but by the same token, you cannot disprove God either...so where does that leave science? If God exists (and He does), then, by not including that hypothesis, you are being unscientific. In actual fact, there are a lot of things that science and the bible do agree on:

          1) Both agree that the universe had a beginning - although they disagree about how that beginning happened.

          2) Both agree that the universe is expanding. The bible talks about He who stretches out the heavens. Time after time you will see that phrase in the bible.

          3) Earth floating in space. The bible says that 'He who hangs the earth upon nothing'.

          4) Round earth. Its ironic that just a few hundred years ago in Christopher Columbus's time, they thought that the earth was flat. If they had looked in the bible and taken it seriously, they would have known that the earth was round. The bible speaks about 'He who sits upon the circle of the earth.' Interestingly,  this was over 150 years before Aristotle who is credited in the History books for suggesting a round earth.

          The bottom line? Proof is only as good as the person willing to accept it and is not set in stone and definitive like most people seem to think, especially the armchair scientist brigade, who think that by aligning themselves with certain aspects of science that they are being free thinkers and objective - when the opposite is true.

          "You also state that there is nothing else between heaven or hell. How do you know that? Do you really know if either exists?"

          Well, I believe that Jesus Christ was exactly who He said He was and therefore, I not only believe what is written in the four gospels, but also the entire bible...since Jesus authenticated the Torah during his ministry on earth. It really is that simple! In fact, if you look, you will realize that Jesus Christ is on virtually every page of the OT.

          1. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
            Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            pahahahahaha?

          2. brotheryochanan profile image61
            brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Anyone who believes the bible agrees that jesus is amazing.
            Jesus even said "behold the volume of the book is written of me".
            No other spokesperson for God has ever claimed this to be true. This alone puts Jesus in a special category above all others. Couple that with other saying like "I am the vine and there is no way to God but through me" and their is no excuse. We can also take notice that all else He says is true too.

          3. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
            A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            VB
            Very well put. God Bless and take care.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image59
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol Brilliant logic you have there. ...verified by history... LOL!

      3. autumn18 profile image68
        autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe he was insane. Or maybe being crucified was inevitable and it didn't matter what he did.

        1. VB_Coder1001001 profile image59
          VB_Coder1001001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Or maybe, just  maybe, He was telling the truth?

          1. autumn18 profile image68
            autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe.

        2. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          There is no evidence that shows jesus as insane. If we look to the gospels we see that Jesus was in control of every situation. He knew where to go and when, he knew how to answer the people and speak to authorities. He had a respect of people, something that people who are insane do not get. Jesus showed no signs of panic, disorder and other psychological stuff.

          Insanity is not an option at all

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Getting nailed to a cross, is not my idea of the greatest gift ever from God. Yet I can imagine Jesus was alright, If he could only see all the wrong translations written about him on earth today

            How do you drive a preacher MAD, put him in a round World and then tell him to preach in a corner

            1. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Getting nailed to the cross was not His idea of fun either and it was not exactly the point, so to speak. If you can understand the reasons why he was killed on the cross then it will make much better sense to you.

              No better love can anyone have than that he will lay down his life for his friends - in jesus case - even those who hate him.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Out of a100 billion people who have ever live and have died on earth, I'm  sure there has been  millions of other who have lay down their lives for others.

                Why not one of them?

                1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  you are joking right?

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    No, by the science community (not christian science) there has been a 100 billion who ever have died on this planet. You don't think any one else beside Jesus gave up their life to save another person or a family member, or a pack, tribe, another religion , gangs of New York or what ever you want to call it?

                    I might give up my life to save my daughter life from a murderer if their was no other way to save her.Yet I can't imagine running out of idea's to harm anyone, perhap for the rest of my entire life also, can a group of Christian do that?

      4. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        nice post

    37. jcales profile image75
      jcalesposted 4 years ago

      I believe in another planet with life as do scientists and NASA. Do they go to H... or H.....? I think not BUT I do believe in good/bad spirits or good/bad forces so it is always a discussion.

      1. mischeviousme profile image61
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I see hell much like that of Jacob's ladder. Hell is a personal place where one goes to have the ego stripped away. It is not likely a bad thing, just another stop on the way to where we are going next. The Budhist wheel of life describes hell as a place where one hungers for life and so from there makes a conscious effort to live again.

               Of course if the Christian version is true, I'd go to hell for the company or heaven for the scenary. If it is so that all the cool people like Budha or sacrates are in hell, that is where you will find me.

        1. Craig Suits profile image83
          Craig Suitsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Wow! Lots of interest on this one. That's good but also very damaging if you believe totally unprovable fairy tales.

          If you wish the truth, which most of you don't, read my hub on the Devil and hell. It's and excerpt from my Book "up One Level".
          If you can disprove anything said there, I would love to hear from you.
          No poppycock, 2000 year old scriptures please. Just the truth, logic, common sense, and provable fact.
          That's not much to ask is it?

          http://craig-suits.hubpages.com/hub/THE … l-The-Book

          1. mischeviousme profile image61
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I like it. We are all enlightened and that is the problem. We find out a truth and we want to share and when we become pleased with ourselve's, we forget the meaning of the thought.

            Anyhow, I agree with sleeping and brainwashed part. People do not want to hear the truth, because they think they already have the answers. The reallity is, if one wants answers, they should talk to someone aged sixty or older. They have lived among generations of observers and sheep. Now that the observers are more abundant, the religious side is getting uncomfortable. And so it is on the atheist side.

        2. mom101 profile image60
          mom101posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          mischeviousme,

          Have you read the description of Hell?

          Even joking, there is no way on Gods green earth, would I ever say I can be found in hell.

    38. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago

      Yes. Heaven and Hell are states of mind. Neither are necessarily good or bad places to be. Being in either state of mind or the other can promote creativity. Lessons can be learned from being in both states of mind.

      Learn to travel between each freely as needed.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I like that .......and do it gracefully, not so extremely

        1. rbe0 profile image60
          rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm glad you like it. However, I will do it however it must be done... extremely or not.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            OK, sometimes extremely, yet  in a non harming way

      2. Craig Suits profile image83
        Craig Suitsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You guys are all missing the point. Believe what ever you wish, but the moment you organize, sooner or later you'll be shooting at other organizations like it's been since day one.
        Up to now, you believers have managed to kill billions of our children defending your damn fairy tales but there was no such thing as deadly pathogens and nuclear weapons that could wipe out all of humanity in a matter of days. There is now oh blind ones. Believe what ever you wish but you'd better bring an end to your organizations right now while you still have the chance.
        For a lousy 3 bucks you can get my book "Up One Level" on Googles E-book store. Read it, learn what has happened, what is going to happen, and what YOU must do to prevent the inevitible.

        1. rbe0 profile image60
          rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Who are you talking to?

          1. Craig Suits profile image83
            Craig Suitsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Every concerned citizen on the planet...

            1. rbe0 profile image60
              rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPdn9KPvMQQUToKeHJ7ex9Qq_T9A2-GOmgISu41M-ffhPig9Va1A

              1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                that's funny

              2. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                LMAO!!!

                1. rbe0 profile image60
                  rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  61 vs 60...

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't understand?

            2. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Worldly concerned citizen

              Are you taking just about Religion or all people with an imagination who enjoy some fantasy, yet are spiritual sided?

        2. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I would think that any person who claims to be informed about the atrocities that happen around the world would realize that it is humanistic, natural concerns birthed from the world they live in that drive them to cause the horrors they commit. I am sure that dropping the A bomb on hiroshima and nagasaki was a combination of scientific experimentation (because you always do an experiment twice to compare data) and politics (that in ending japans involvement in WW2)

          If government leaders allowed religion to overwhelm their populations these leaders know that all too soon they would then be compelled by that same christian population to adhere to religious tenets - truths and Gods will - which is something that the political forum does not abide well with. So creating diversions and chaos among the religiously inclined is helpful to the matters that be in controlling the world.

    39. 0
      Muldaniaposted 4 years ago

      I don't know if I believe in heaven or hell.  Having read a lot about near death experiences, there are some people who describe going to hell when they have such an experience.  Often this happens to people who attempt suicide and return to tell the tale.  Whether this is real evidence of a hell or simply a reflection of the state of mind of the person when they attempted suicide, I cannot decide.  I tend to believe near death experiences take place in the brain, however, the fact that such experiences are so similar for the many thousands of people who have had them does make me wonder.

      1. Craig Suits profile image83
        Craig Suitsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Eurika! Finally an honest, straight thinking person. You are right, you don't know the truth and neither does anyone else. They just like to believe they do. I was starting to feel a little bit lonley there Muldania.

        My co-author, Lilith Eden was actually killed in a car accident 5 years ago and came back. Look up "I died on (the date) on her Hub pages and read about her experiences of actually being dead and then coming back. It's suprising what she remembers.
        I looked it up for you...
        http://lilitheden.hubpages.com/hub/I-di … ch-15-2005

    40. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      Doesn't logic speak to the truth? The truth isn't far. In fact, it's right next to you...even closer. Here is one immutable truth. Everything is a manifestation of energy...including consciousness. This is the true meaning of E=MC2, and it is the true meaning of God. All you need do is understand and accept it.

      1. Craig Suits profile image83
        Craig Suitsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I've been suspecting it for some time now but after reading the ol Druid Dude above, I'm convinced. Your all certifiably insane.
        I give up...

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Good thing is, he is not a Physiatrists

    41. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      Hell is where your heart and mind dwell. Heaven is also where your heart and mind dwell. Evil is of man...though we would blame snakes and devils. That darkness exists in all of us...a gift from the savages we once were. The light also exists in all of us...it is what we can rise to be

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You may be a little space out cat, yet your OK by  me Druid

      2. A Thousand Words profile image81
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Love the way you put that. smile

    42. pressreleaseping profile image61
      pressreleasepingposted 4 years ago
    43. A Thousand Words profile image81
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago

      Um, has anyone noticed the fact that Adam and Eve were going to eventually sin?

      They were apparently created in His "image" whatever that means, but they were given the ability to choose whether to listen to Him or not (the whole "God doesn't want robots" argument). Creating them in such a manner gives an IMMEDIATE 50/50 probability that they will either obey or disobey.

      Knowing this, He still lets Satan roam free as the Serpent, knowing what said Serpent would plan, being omniscient and all, and allowing him to feed lies to Eve, who wasn't very smart or moral for someone created in the "image" of God. And then instead of simply wiping them out, which He almost does completely in the not so distant future (the flood), he decides to then punish the billions and trillions of people who come down the line for their transgressions? I mean, really? (Of course, unless they accept His "Son," which Jesus' sacrifice would've been unnecessary if the "FAther" hadn't created Lucifer or the Tree or people with the ability to make a wrong choice in the first place) But, for God's own selfish need of praise and adoration, we were created, with the ability to choose, so he could feel special, and given the sh*t end of the stick just because that's how it is and we're supposed to accept the fact that life is unfair and this religion is our only option?

      Is this is the God of "love?" Thanks, but no thanks. I believe in the possibility of supernatural things, or at least things that we don't understand yet about ourselves and this Universe. But, I'm pretty sure the God of the Bible, if there is a "god," ain't it.

      And that Hell is an awful place that I don't believe in, and a "loving God" wouldn't create.

      1. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
        A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Then you are deceiving yourself and are unable to come to the realization that there is something greater than you whose designs we do not understand and those works are for the good of all.

        1. A Thousand Words profile image81
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          For the good of all, or the good of those who do what He wants? BIG difference. I'd say Hell isn't good for anybody.

          1. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
            A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            True, hell is not good for anyone, but God has given us free will. We are not made to be robots; we were made so that we might, through Jesus, become sons and daughters of God.
            Hell is a choice, your choice.

            1. Jesus was a hippy profile image61
              Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So you dont believe that god sends people to hell for not believing in him?

              1. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
                A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No. They choose it. Since He has given us free will - we choose wheather to accept His forgiveness through Jesus or not. The Bible says it does not give Him ANY PLEASURE to destroy the wicked. Ezekiel 18:32
                Sin separates us from God. You see this in the story of Lazarus and the rich man concerning the "great gulf." You see this when Jesus took our sins upon Himself and He cried out to God, "Why have you forgotten me?"
                This is His world, universe. There are certain rules that must exsist for ultimate harmony. He is being patient with His creation, but He will cut His work short. Romans 9:28
                Since we cannot do what Jesus did and follow those rules we would be doomed to die. It is our acceptance of Jesus. To believe that He is the Son of God. That He came in the flesh and was raised in a glorified body. The same kind of body we will receive if we, through Him, crucify our sinful natures and make that public confession that we believe He is the Son of God. He did not sin so we need His perfect Spirit and sacrifice to cleanse and save us.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So, the love condition for Yahweh is for you to believe in him with all your heart.

                  Too bad for most people who do not believe in Yahweh, that is hell of a way to treat non believers or other kind of Religion who love their God most

                  1. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
                    A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    To deny the very being that gives you life is like denying you need air to live. It isn't going to happen.

                    1. A Troubled Man profile image59
                      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      LOL! And yet, we can breathe just fine.

        2. A Thousand Words profile image81
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I understand fully that there may be something bigger out there, Simply that the Christian God most certainly isn't it, and to say that He i"works for the good of all" is to deceive your own self, sir.

          1. A.S.K.Preacher profile image61
            A.S.K.Preacherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            He says in order to be rich - you must become poor. If you want to be a ruler - you must be a servant. Telling you that I am not deceived would do you or this conversation very little good. What I know to be true is not easy to convey to those who do not believe. The reason for this, the Bible says, is because these things are spiritually discerned.
            This is what I can do. There IS an afterlife. He IS our life. Whenever we sin we take away from that life. Jesus is the only way that life can be replenished.
            Too many think the afterlife is about having all these rewards that are worldly in nature. That could not be farther from the truth. What Jesus is offering  you is this: Life and peace. All other "gifts" are perks. Eternal Life and Peace from our source, our creator is what gift we need to focus on now.

            1. A Thousand Words profile image81
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I am a former Christian. I'll be sharing a hub about my experiences soon enough. I know well of the peace and life you speak of. My world is quite different these days. I understand that you mean well, and that you think that I can't understand what you're saying, but your very words in some form or fashion left my own mouth, once upon a time. However, after some interesting events, I am no longer convinced, and there are certain things that I simply can't change my mind about. I do miss the fluffy side of Christianity, but, my "faith" is long gone in it and in the God there in.

        3. Jesus was a hippy profile image61
          Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You're going to have to demonstrate that is true if you are going to accuse him of deceiving himself since deceipt is reliant on knowledge of the truth.

          I hope YOU are not being deceiptful. That would be hypocritical if you were.

          1. A Thousand Words profile image81
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "You're going to have to demonstrate that is true if you are going to accuse him of deceiving himself since deceipt is reliant on knowledge of the truth."

            Actually, Jesus was a hippy, he told me that I was deceiving myself, first. He is also going to have to demonstrate that what he said is "true" by your argument.

            And being deceived and *deceitful are two different ball games.

            Also, I stand fully on what I said. Based on the basics of the Bible and how "everything got started," "the good of all" is not the God of the Bible's worries.

            1) Creating the angel that would be part of the cause of the fall of all humanity.
            2) Creating a place of everlasting punishment, instead of erasing this angel-become-Devil out of existence. MUCH easier, if He can simply write you, and anything else, into existence.

            3) Creating people with the option to make a decision for HIs own selfish sake of having more beings to worship Him that aren't robot like. (The angels had "free will" if Satan was able to turn himself, and a 1/3rd of the other ones against God)
            I'd rather be a robot then have the option of going to a place of eternal torment... thanks.

            4) Not destroying the first 2 people and starting over right then, instead of punishing them and the trillions of people after them...

            Etc, etc, etc.

            Where's "the good of all there?" It's all for the good of Himself, and the good little boys and girls who do what He says... That is all.

    44. knolyourself profile image60
      knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

      Hell is not knowing you are in a hell of your own making.

    45. steveamy profile image60
      steveamyposted 4 years ago

      Only in the metaphorical sense...

    46. rpkedige profile image59
      rpkedigeposted 4 years ago

      There is no heaven or hell. It is just a state of mind where people can hang onto when others do something. When they do something it is always heaven :-P. When others do it.. You say, "What the hell are you doing?? " smile

    47. seanorjohn profile image80
      seanorjohnposted 4 years ago

      I hope there isn't a hell. But I fear there is. And that's where .....

    48. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago

      Not only do I beleive in it, but by Drinking NyQuil You Can come to Hell too!

      I even wrote a hub about the glories of the NyQuil CacoDaemon!

      Goddamn Do i have a horrible hangover. Drrank wayyy tooo mcuhhh NyQUuiill!

      Luckily it was all just a bad dream... keke

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52wdW9titPI

      1. mischeviousme profile image61
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You do realize that you are completely insane? I like it though, it's interesting to see what you are going to say next.

    49. phillippeengel profile image73
      phillippeengelposted 4 years ago

      Different religions have kaleidoscopic views on the organization and purpose of Hell. I have been, frankly, deeply influenced by the Ten Courts of Hell from the Chinese mythology. It actually forces you to think twice about sinning. Sinning itself is quite intricate since there are many ways of sinning, and some of the sins are counter-intuitive, e.g. wasting food.

    50. bloggernotjogger profile image60
      bloggernotjoggerposted 4 years ago

      Well, if you believe that that wormholes exist and that you can move from one universe to another by way of them, and if you believe that there are an infinite number of universes, then anything is possible.

      In one universe, I´m the creator and in another, I rule hell. I just happen to be stuck in a universe I where I write half-rate Hubs. smile

     
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