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Am I still allowed to be a Christian?

  1. rbe0 profile image60
    rbe0posted 4 years ago

    Yesterday I tried to join the Christian church. My application was delayed due to lack of understanding. sad.

    Heres some questions/statements maybe someone can help me find the answers to or can help me change my understanding of...

    ------------------------------

    I believe God exists. I do not believe the devil exists. Can I still be a Christian?

    The devil was defined to me by a high ranking christian as a spiritual being without a body who controls or influences people to do evil.

    I choose to believe that only I can make my decisions, no invisible spirits can tell me what to do or not to do, and even if they did I wouldn't listen anyways.

    I do not hear voices of the devil or god speaking to me, maybe I have been cast out of god's light? Maybe I have been cast out of the devil's darkness?
    This seems OK to me because I wouldn't want to ever not be in control of my own actions.

    If being in god's light also requires me to allow the devil to gain control over my thoughts or actions, how is this not contradictory.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sure, why not? You will never find Christians in agreement with other Christians over their beliefs. You will find plenty of Christians who will tell you you're not a Christian. Who are they to tell you?



      It would seem that "high ranking christian" is a term not endearing to honesty and integrity.



      Sounds perfectly reasonable.



      That is quite normal, actually. If you did hear voices in your head telling you to do things, I would recommend seeking professional help immediately.

    2. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      A christian is someone who doesn't really understand God, so they go to a church to have someone explain to them (endlessly) about something which, yes, if you simply live your life and seek logical conclusions through the words that Jesus spoke. And God's voice isn't a sound, but it does occur inside of you, in that decision making area of you where you argue whether or not you should kick your dog or steal your neighbor's wife and belongings. There are many deceivers and much deception about, and EVERYONE is wandering after the beast.

      1. rbe0 profile image60
        rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Oh so it was YOU WHO CAME INTO MY YARD AND KICKED MY DOG!!! i knew it

        1. Druid Dude profile image60
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          whisperer, not a kicker. Not like on TV either. It's a native thing I do.

    3. 0
      Phoebe Pikeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      As long as you believe in God and there is an afterlife, why not? It sounds like a specific branch of Christianity you applied for...

    4. aka-dj profile image80
      aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Just download a certificate template (of your choice),
      on it, print a declaration about yourself becoming a Christian,
      Frame it.
      Display it on your wall,
      and VOILA, you are a "certified christian".

      EASY.



      But, in reality, it's not YOU who determines whether or not you are a Christian.
      Neither is it ANY CHURCH!

      It's God Himself Who "makes Christians".


      How about you approach Him about it.
      After all, it's His "opinion" that really counts. smile

    5. couturepopcafe profile image60
      couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      rbe0 - under the conditions you described in the OP, no, you are not allowed to be a Christian.  You have to be further conditioned to believe what they believe, or at least to concede that there is a devil, and you must submit your will to Christ.  Those are their (probably minimal) conditions.  I kid you not.  If you want a 'paper' that says you are a member of a certain church, you will likely need to give your testimony of how, when, where, you finally believed.

    6. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Um since Christianity is derived from Christ ,He would probably love it if you sought Him on the matter wink

      (Because we all have to make up our own minds in the end)..might as well get it from the horses mouth so to speak wink or you risk the chances of hearing a lot of asses...( I made that up) lol

    7. 0
      Virgil Newsomeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
      Rom 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    8. Jeff Berndt profile image89
      Jeff Berndtposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So you're a heretic. You're in good company. No biggie.

      1. lizzieBoo profile image78
        lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        smile

    9. Cassie Smith profile image74
      Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The way you are now, you are not a Christian.

      Can you still be or are allowed to be a Christian?  Don't know.  That part depends on God.

      1. Daniel Carter profile image89
        Daniel Carterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So where is God that he might ask of him?
        God seems absent for asking anything about this subject. According to most Christians, you have ask God's representative, which would be an opinionated human who would be quick to condemn this person.

        I'd rather ask God, but I can't find him anywhere.

        1. Cassie Smith profile image74
          Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well, you don't believe in God, so it would be kind of pointless for me to answer your question.

    10. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If you believe in God, then like it or not the devil is real. Ther must be a balance between good and evil otherwise how would you ever know the difference.

      Only you can choose whether or not you do evil or not but the fact that evil exists means that satan does too.

      As a spiritual being, Even after you die, you are in control of your ability to choose God or satan, good or evil.

      Being in God's light never requires you to permit satan to do anything. satan needs God's permission for anything including the possibility of tempting you in any way shape or form.

      The devil was never a high ranking christian he was and is an "Angel" actually an ArchAngel.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Without having to believe in gods and devils, one could contemplate the implications and consequences of stealing or killing, both from an evolved mental and biological state of compassion, altruism and conscience to the external ramifications of being ostracized, alienated and considered untrustworthy for our species survival any benefits to us as a whole.

        That's only one way of figuring out the difference. There are others.

        1. couturepopcafe profile image60
          couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Agree.  So IMO, it holds that there doesn't NEED to be a balance of good and evil.  Although all things in nature point to balance, only humans see a downside to life as evil.  Ex. If I am in a financial slump, evil must have struck somewhere and is trying to make my life a misery.  Fact: Life is full of rhythms, waves.  There is certain potential for learning in any slump.  Always an up side.

    11. Disappearinghead profile image89
      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If you believe that God came in the flesh to Earth to die for our sin, and go on to follow Him, your are a Christian.

      No belief in Satan is required as He is a figment of the Church's imagination.

    12. Hummingbird5356 profile image79
      Hummingbird5356posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You don't need to join any church to go to church.  I am Church of England which means Protestant but if I choose to go to church to pray I go in any whether it is Methodist or Protestant, I have even been to a Born Again Christian service but I am not a Catholic so would not go to a Catholic church.
      I have even been with friends to a mosque but did not pray, I sat with them.

      1. lizzieBoo profile image78
        lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You go in a Mosque but not into a RC church? wow, you really are a protestant.

    13. Daniel Carter profile image89
      Daniel Carterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Seems to me like you are too rational to be a superstitious type of Christian. You could be a Christian in your heart without joining a particular religion and still be a Christian. But if you want to join a Christian religion, you'll have to find one that aligns more with your thinking, rather than aligning your thinking to theirs.

      Perhaps the Unitarians might offer something for you. They seem to have a much broader view of Christianity.

      Just an idea.

    14. LeslieAdrienne profile image81
      LeslieAdrienneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The requirements for being a Christian have little to do with what you think and everything to do with what you believe.

      Believe that God is, that Jesus is the Son of God, that He took the punishment of eternal spiritual death upon Himself, defeating it so that you do not have to pay that price.

      Accept Him as your Lord and Savior and He will lead you to all of the rest...Religion is not God and God is not religion.....

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I couldn't agree more, thinking has nothing to do with being a Christian.

    15. mischeviousme profile image60
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Don't pay attention to any of the above replies. You could always claim to be a christian. Alot of "christians" claim to be christians, when all they do is go to church to fit in. And if the high ranking christian were who he said he was, he would have been a good sheopard and brought you into the fold.

    16. paradigmsearch profile image90
      paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      OMG?

      1. 0
        kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        wtf?

        1. mischeviousme profile image60
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I know that humor is hard to find in writing, however the obove statement was made in sarcasm, not so much to offend anyone. Though if the high ranking christian were who he said he was, he'd have shown the seeker the error of his ways. I'd have avoided church all together myself, but that is because I've been there and I can't agree with base intelligence.

          1. rbe0 profile image60
            rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            omgwtfroflbbq?

    17. 68
      paarsurreyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes; you are still a good Christian; belief in devil is not essential; belief in the Creator God,angels,Word revealed or divine books,and belief in the messengers prophets of the Creator God is essential.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 4 years ago in reply to this
    18. 2besure profile image82
      2besureposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      becoming a Christian has nothing to do with joining a church.  It is a personal decision you make to repent for your sins and ask God to guide your life.  I you do that indeed you are a Christian.  These people who did not approve your application are not a "Church" but a mere organization.  A church is the place for people to learn the Bible and get a greater understanding.

    19. Browneesorchids profile image75
      Browneesorchidsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      As a Christian woman I would have to say that many Christians are in agreement when they are true Christian walkers. When you walk in the Holy Spirit, have wisdom from God, have a good church community (many are not clear on what a church is and what it is for), and reads the Bible for intrepretation (do not read the Bible without first having a ordained pastor/Bible study so that you know how to interpret the Word), you must always praise Him, repent your sins, and change your ungodly ways.
      Many go off their own understanding and that leaves you to believe and follow wordly things, when God's law and God's will is what Christians go by, not by the world and all the wickeness it brings.


      You have to keep in mind when you have gained a relationship with God, when you have prayed to Him for wisdom, for direction, you must know how to read others in a way that show you their true faith. There are signs that will reveal themselves and then you are to know that it is not in accordance with the Bible that only the Gideons have stamped and verified (there are many translations such as KJV, NIV). Nevertheless has to be certified by the Gideon. There are many people that call themselves Christians but are not going by the Word, yet they make up their own laws, doctrines, and traditions. Again we are not to go by humankind, ever, we are to always have faith in Jesus Christ, know and totally beleive that Jesus was the only son of God, that he died for our sins, he rose from the earth as Christ followers will in the rapture (Revelation).

      You appeared to answer the questions but did not have knowledge of what being a Christian is, the devil is real and we have to always remimber that hell is real just as the devil is the god of the earth. As I said we do not go by the world, we walk in the Holy Spirit. Many churches do not discuss the devil or hell becuase they  dont feel it should be any focus on that but it is crucial to know that it is real and that if yu are not living a true Christian life that you or anyone can be there. Keep in mind God does'nt put you in hell, people chose to go there by not living in Christ image-Holy Spirit.

      Sounds like you are being called by God to get your life right, but at times we have to pray we find those Christian people to learn from and counsel with. Bible study is a great way to gain knowledge, testing others is something you must learn to do and know that if they are not going by the Bible then you should politely leave those persons in the dust behind you.

      Church is suppose to be a community of mutual followers of Christ (Christians are ambassadors of Lord Jesus Christ) and have a common goal to bring as many souls with them to heaven. We are to evangilize, educate, and love as God commands of us. Church is not suppose to be the only place you practice your faith (Christian is a faith not a religion).


      Your questions and answers:

      I believe God exists. I do not believe the devil exists. Can I still be a Christian?

      The devil does exist and anyone can go there for all there afterlife if not being a true Christian. God exist just as the devil does. Do not be fooled by thingking God is all there is to believe in. God is to be feared because He is our father. the devil should never be feared and given any energy besdies acknowledging that he is real, wicked and can rob you of happiness if you go by the way of the world.

      The devil was defined to me by a high ranking christian as a spiritual being without a body who controls or influences people to do evil?

      The devil was an angel but chose to be in hell as any humankind does. God is the most high and can do more with our souls than the devil can. The devil is very wicked and wants nothing but evil attributes to gain their way into all humans (killing, lust, lying, stealing, harming others, harboring wick persons or items, not walking in the Holy Spirit) these are all the ways the devils bring upon the world, but he is not stronger or as strong as the Lord. 


      I choose to believe that only I can make my decisions, no invisible spirits can tell me what to do or not to do, and even if they did I wouldn't listen anyways.

      Human kind is not to go off their own thinking, that is crucial. Choosing to  believe that you control things, is going against what God commands of us. We do make our own decisions but we do not have total control and need the Lord Jesus Christ for wisdom, direction, and redemption. God is a powerful entity and He is to be praised, worshiped and followed. To say you are in total control and do not need God saddens Him, for you are lost in the world. This life is not all that there is and you must know that. Why would you not want to put everything into God our father, the one that loves us unconditionally, He gave his only son so that we can be forgivien for our sins and be delivered by Him. Thats a beautiful, extraordinary love, that no person can ever sustain. If you chose to deny Him of all that He is, then you can chose your afterlife in hell and never be satisfied for all eternity. Why chose that? 



      I do not hear voices of the devil or god speaking to me, maybe I have been cast out of god's light? Maybe I have been cast out of the devil's darkness?
      This seems OK to me because I wouldn't want to ever not be in control of my own actions.

      Well choosing to belive that you are can gooff your own thinking, laws, wills, ways will leave you in the dark, leave you confused. Sounds like the devilis telling you things that you find truth in. Do not believe or listen to God, you are all that is important, and that God only wants to control you. Those are all signs that you are very lost out in this world.


      If being in god's light also requires me to allow the devil to gain control over my thoughts or actions, how is this not contradictory.

      Sounds like you have a problem with being as God commands of us. You need to know that living in the world is not all that there is and is not all that is suppose to be for us all. God wants us to be the best we can be, not control our lives but to deliver us and guide us. The devil can only get in when you allow him to. We are to be submissive and humbling when it comes to loving God and having faith in Him. Submitting is required of us and we can chose not to or to do. As I stated those choices result in your direction of life you will go in (worldy ways) and there after(hell).


      A few words of wisdom

      1Corinthians 11:1-34
      "Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. ..."


      James 4:7
      "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."


      1 Corinthians 6:18-20
      "Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."


      Romans 2:6-8
      "He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. "


      1John 4:8
      "Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love."


      Hosea 4:6
      "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children."


      Mark 16:16
      "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. "


      Ephesians 2:8-9
      "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."


      Proverbs 16:18-19
      "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. It is better to be of a lowly spirit with the poor than to divide the spoil with the proud."

      Romans 12:2 
      "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect."


      James 4:6 
      "But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”


      Proverbs 16:18
      "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."

    20. lizzieBoo profile image78
      lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Depending on what church you wanted to join you should get the answers you're looking for from them. If its Anglican, the Vicar will probably tell you that it's not essential to believe in God or the devil, but he'll offer you a nice cup of tea.
      If it's Catholic, the priest will probably tell you that you need to accept the existence of the devil to understand your vulnerability more. After that you'll probably go for a pint down the local pub where you can get philosophical about football.

      1. rbe0 profile image60
        rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        thanks lissie. anglican sound coo man.

      2. Claire Evans profile image89
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Are you an Anglican, Lizzie? I am and you have to believe in God and the devil.

        1. rbe0 profile image60
          rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Damn, guess i can't be anglican either.... sad sad

          The tea sounded so inviting.

        2. 0
          Muldaniaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, God is an Englishman, so an Anglican would take tea and scones, instead of the Roman Catholic bread and wine at communion.

    21. 0
      Cranfordjsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Such extracurricular studies will reveal that the history of Christianity is principally a story of mankind's misery and ignorance rather than of its requited love of God. -Sam Harris

      I know it's easy to live within the last 50years of Christianity's history, but there isn't anything glamorous about it from a broad perspective.

      It's one thing to proclaim the existence of God, but it's another to state which one it  is.

      I don't understand why you don't believe in hell. If you are a fan boy of Christ, then you should fully submit to his 'book'.

      "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11.......This is a sentence. It makes a statement that is extremely clear. There isn't anyway around what it says. This is fun, lets continue..........."For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)........"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21)..................... (and my favorite for last) "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)

      It seems as society progresses, Christianity has to cherry pick what is relevant. As time goes by and society matures, more and more of the bible will be disregarded in the way the above quotes have, until a day comes and nothing is left. No bible. No Christianity. Tick . Tock.

    22. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      **********************

      Why would you want to be a Christian?

      1. rbe0 profile image60
        rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        i figured i would try it out. didn't work out so well.

      2. rbe0 profile image60
        rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        also the majority of my family are christians too. so i always feel weird and left out whenever i see them. like they are sad that i am not the same religion as them.

        so now i can say i atleast tried it, but i found irreconcilable differences between their and my systems of beleifs.

        But whatever... i have moved on to more interesting things, like theosophy

        1. Claire Evans profile image89
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The founder of the Theosophy was Helena Blavatsky.  Do you know she was a Satanist?

          1. rbe0 profile image60
            rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            nope. what is a satanist? one who worships satan?

            1. Claire Evans profile image89
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, she worshipped a literal Satan.  I will give you a quote from her:

              “Stand in awe of him, and sin not, speak his name with trembling … It is Satan who is the god of our planet and the only god. … When the Church, therefore, curses Satan, it curses the cosmic reflection of God.”

              She had this warped idea that God is evil and that Satan is good, which is quite strange.  When you get better, and I hope you get better soon, tell me what you agree with about theosophy.  I'm curious.

              1. rbe0 profile image60
                rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                allrite. im trying to sleep right now, unsuccessfuly. but ill write u a message when i am not tripping on this dextromethorphan (main ingerient in nyquil).

              2. rbe0 profile image60
                rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I can share with you a dream i had that better explains why theosophical teachings are just a beleif system and not satanworship. if you would really like to know, a public platform is not the location for this discussion.

              3. rbe0 profile image60
                rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                18 hours later and I still feel a bit off.

                Nyquil is poison.

                Never going to use it again.

              4. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Perhaps, she thought that God was evil and Satan good based on the amount of people who were murdered in the Bible by either one of them.

                Satan = 8
                God - millions

                1. Claire Evans profile image89
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Then she's stupid because much of the Old Testament is based on the occult and paganism.  For example, the first born children is often sacrificed by pagans in those days. That's where the story of Abraham and Isaac came from.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The New Testament is based on the Old Testament, which would mean the NT was also based on the occult and paganism.

                    At least she wasn't so stupid as to figure out who was actually more evil, God or Satan. smile

          2. rbe0 profile image60
            rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            if so, that would suck because i agree with a lot of the things i have come to know about theosophy. it all makes sense to me.

          3. rbe0 profile image60
            rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            by the way claire, i am sick with some kind of head cold right now. so i am probly sounding pretty impaired. hopefully this is not permanent and it will wear off after the Nyquil i took wears off.

      3. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Because Jesus died for our sins!

    23. 2besure profile image82
      2besureposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Never heard of a Christian church where you had to apply to be a Christian.  It's not scriptural and you don't want to be a part of t hat church anyway!  They sound legalistic, and dead as a doornail!  : )

    24. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "Yesterday I tried to join the Christian church. My application was delayed due to lack of understanding. ."

      It's with some trepidation that I answer because that opening paragraph sounds like the kind of joke that many atheists would make. But, assuming you're not trolling, here goes...


      "I believe God exists. I do not believe the devil exists. Can I still be a Christian?"
      Yes, the technical definition of Christian is "follower of Christ." But the Bible mentions the devil several times and Jesus not only contended with him in the desert but also told His followers that He had seen the devil cast out of Heaven. So you might want to read the Bible and ask yourself why you don't believe in a literal devil, Lucifer.

      "The devil was defined to me by a high ranking christian as a spiritual being without a body who controls or influences people to do evil."
      Not an uncommon way to think about the devil, but again I would urge you to go the real source, the Bible. It is God's revealed word. Even "high-ranking" Christians can get it wrong, but the Bible never does. And again, I'm suspicious of that term, "high-ranking Christian." Who? Billy Graham? Pope Benedict? Carmen?

      "I choose to believe that only I can make my decisions, no invisible spirits can tell me what to do or not to do, and even if they did I wouldn't listen anyways." That sounds a little like you wouldn't listen to God, either. But yes, you are ultimately responsible for your own decisions, which again is why you need to read the Bible (and although other Christians can help you interpret it, trust God. Depending on a particular priest or preacher or teacher for your interpretation is the fastest way to Waco.)

      "I do not hear voices of the devil or god speaking to me, maybe I have been cast out of god's light? Maybe I have been cast out of the devil's darkness?
      This seems OK to me because I wouldn't want to ever not be in control of my own actions."
      I haven't heard voices either, although I have certainly known the presence of God in my life. You don't WANT to be in the devil's darkness! You want to be in God's light!

      "If being in god's light also requires me to allow the devil to gain control over my thoughts or actions, how is this not contradictory."
      It doesn't, so it's not. Being in God's light and surrendering to Him means leaving the devil behind and having nothing more to do with him.

  2. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    rbe0, you're one of my favorite rascals. big_smile

    And you, too, Troubled Man. big_smile

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Who you callin a rascal, rascal?

      I tried to join the church because I really wanted to join it. They don't want me yet tho i guess. sad

      I didn't bake them a cake yet, maybe that will convince them i am good nuff to join there group?

      That's all it would take for me to let someone be my friend...

      1. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        As with any business dealings, money will solve your problem. Just show up with a certified check for a couple hundred or so, and you're in. big_smile

        1. rbe0 profile image60
          rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I think you are confused... christianity is all about <3, not $.

          Why am I being denied love... Thats mean!

          Also even if you are telling me the truth which i think you are not, i cant afford that yet sad.

          1. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Just go to their next bingo game and win it there. big_smile

            1. couturepopcafe profile image60
              couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Only Catholics play bingo.

          2. Druid Dude profile image60
            Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            YOU ARE A CHURCH.

            1. Druid Dude profile image60
              Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Seek out one of like mind..."For I say unto you, wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there am I also." And, he never leaves a single one behind.

              1. couturepopcafe profile image60
                couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Dude - That's exactly why he can't be a Christian.  He doesn't want to gather in His name.

            2. rbe0 profile image60
              rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              First you kick my dog, now you call me names??? REPORTED!

  3. Perspycacious profile image73
    Perspycaciousposted 4 years ago

    Admittedly some folks seem to do very well "without God" in their lives, but when I hear of someone like that, I always want to ask myself, "But, how much better might they do WITH God in their life?"

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And what makes you think that someone's life would be better with G/god in their life?

      1. rbe0 profile image60
        rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        My life got a lot better after I accepted that god exists.

      2. DaKingsKid profile image57
        DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        God being Love.... Who doesn't want or need love in there lives?

        1. couturepopcafe profile image60
          couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          First comment I've heard that hits the mark, IMO.  And not just in this forum.

  4. Perspycacious profile image73
    Perspycaciousposted 4 years ago

    P. S.  If one or more so-called churches didn't want you to join, I would posit that  you wouldn't have been happy in those "churches" anyway.  Keep trying, there's a right one out there for you somewhere.

  5. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    I believe God exists. I do not believe the devil exists. Can I still be a Christian?
    -  -  - -
    ME
      Any time we want to join any club; we need to ead the by-laws of that "particular"  branch before we know if we want to join.

    =========================================================


    I choose to believe that only I can make my decisions, no invisible spirits can tell me what to do or not to do, and even if they did I wouldn't listen anyways.
    - =  - =
    me
       My invisable spirit tells me to not rey to swim up stream.  And I agree; everytime, following the advice is often a different thing!

    ==========================================================

    I do not hear voices of the devil or god speaking to me, maybe I have been cast out of god's light? Maybe I have been cast out of the devil's darkness?
    This seems OK to me because I wouldn't want to ever not be in control of my own actions.


      -  --  -
    me
      I was thinking the other night, that;  Are we?/we are .. prisoners of our own mind?
    What ever our thoughts are, ...  do controll where we go in our decision making.
    so are we ever in controll as much as we think that we are?
    =======================================================================

      Me again   ..

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You are the prisoner of your own mind and also the keymaster of your own prison.

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        YEP!   You re right.

  6. DaKingsKid profile image57
    DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago

    Church means "called out one", in being a christian you not only believe that there is a God, but also have received Jesus the Christ, The Risen Lord who has come to reconcile you unto God and His Kingdom through the Cross.. He lived and Died and on the Third day rose from the dead... Jesus Is the One who saves, He calls us out of the darkness and into the Light.. We as true believers must understand that it is not about religion, or starting another denomination picking and choosing what we want to believe, but rather receiving the Word of God agreeing with what God has said in the bible, in which has been conveyed through time through a chosen few to be His instruments in doing so, and pursuing a personal relationship with Him as we follow Jesus. Follow Jesus..

    Hey If you are really serious in your pursuit I would love to chat with You. As for picking a church home where people who truly are of God and are a bible believing church, you pray and ask God to Lead you and He will open a door and opportunity for you to be able to go in the direction He would like you to go...

    God is a rewarded of those who diligently seek Him...

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks DaKingsKid, very well written.

      So the next logical step for me would appear for me to be the acceptance of jesus? How can I do this?

      1. DaKingsKid profile image57
        DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        http://www.jesus2020.com/ this shares some instruction..

        1. DaKingsKid profile image57
          DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I always ask after someone has accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior to start reading the Gospel of John, and to read it twice... As you receive Jesus Christ and do Grow in Your faith towards Him you will begin to understand the word of God even more over time, because truly it will be God Teaching you through His Holy Spirit...And going back through it a second time, you will see even more you had not seen before.. Watch you will see, it is an experience all in itself with God....

        2. rbe0 profile image60
          rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          OK well i followed the instructions, answered yes, but now I'm scared to give them my contact info....

          What now?

          1. rbe0 profile image60
            rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            oh nevermind i see i should read the gospel of john now? twice?

            1. DaKingsKid profile image57
              DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Just read your bible.. I just used that site because i like how it is constructed to lead on to point one in Jesus' direction..

              The Bible says in Romans 10:9 "if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your Heart that God has raised Him from dead you will be saved...."

              This is just the beginning of an amazing Journey, God will reveal Himself to YOU, and one way in which He does this is through the Word of God...

              1. DaKingsKid profile image57
                DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Take Your time in reading it, it doesn't have to be overnight but really take the time to really take in what it is You are reading....

            2. rbe0 profile image60
              rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              brb reading the gospel of john.

              1. rbe0 profile image60
                rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                never before thought i would say that in my life. lol.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Shut off all forms of reason, logic and rationale, ignore reality and pretend the world is run on magic. A pre-frontal lobotomy can help to accelerate that process and you'll be there.

  7. DaKingsKid profile image57
    DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago

    correction..  God  re-wards those He Diligently seek Him...

  8. DaKingsKid profile image57
    DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago

    I guess it obvious i'm trying to say it but its not coming out the way id like to say it.. But God does re-ward those who diligently seek Him...so Please do forgive me...

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It's a completely false statement, why should we forgive you for making it?

      1. Jeff Berndt profile image89
        Jeff Berndtposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Correction: There is no way of testing the truth or falsehood of that statement.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Good point.

    2. Cassie Smith profile image74
      Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't know if that's always true. There are some who don't seek him and are shown God's grace.  I'm thinking of Paul.  He's just walking along the highway to get somewhere and God kind of just blinds him to wake him up to His existence.

  9. Smokes Angel profile image74
    Smokes Angelposted 4 years ago

    According to the Bible, we as Christians work out our own salvation.  Not believing one way or the other is up to you.  I recommend however that you seek God out in the Bible.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

      All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)"

      Should we kill our children if they curse at us? The Bible says we should. Do you believe we should according to the Bible?

      1. LeslieAdrienne profile image81
        LeslieAdrienneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        As usual Troubled, you have taken a few scriptures and run wild with them.
        You never take the time to really analyze what you are saying in context, why is that?

        Proverbs 20:20 is very true in that if you don't respect your parents, you open a door of misery for your life. God is warning us about what the devil will do to us. It is the devil who kills, steals and destroys... not God.

        Now, I know you are going to find a scripture in the Old Testament about how God told the Israeli's to wipe out this nation or that. And, when you do, I'll come back and respond to that; but not right now.

        As for Lev. 20:9... yes it is true, yes it was practiced, but, it was cultural law based on the law of love. A crazy kid with a disrespectful mouth had to be stopped. After all can't we relate to our gang problems as being the result of disrespectful youth?? Psychiatry, psychology, behavior management and Ritalin were not on the scene at this time of this writing.

        The Bible changes from one law to another law, twice in the Old Testament and again in the New Testament. (The law of Abraham, the law of Moses, and the law of Jesus Christ which is the law of love).

        The way you stopped corruption in the Old Testament was to remove the corrupter. But, wait a minute...isn't that the way we do it today??? Don't we sentence people to death for what we deem as "capital offenses"???  We either execute them [that is another term for put to death, or we lock them up.

        Israel had not yet settled in their land when the book of Leviticus was written. They were on the move and didn't have any portable jails. The law was instituted to help them reach their destiny.

        Receive Jesus and you will understand the workings of God.  cool

        1. manlypoetryman profile image70
          manlypoetrymanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Exceedingly...Well done !

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this



          Context? lol

          Where in that verse can one find context not consistent with the words printed there?



          No, there is no reference in that verse to the devil. That is not context, that is making stuff up as you go along in order to defend religion.



          Will you also make up stuff that is not in those verses, too?



          Cultural law based on love? lol lol  <--- coveted double laughie

          A crazy kid with a disrespectful mouth had to be stopped? So, kill him in order to stop him? lol




          Yes, I know the word of God has flip flopped over time. That would simply show the Bible has nothing to do with gods.



          Oh, I see, cursing is now a "capital offense" lol



          lol I can only see the workings of believers who make stuff up to defend their religions.

          I would rather not have to accept a religion that turns me into a liar. Thanks. smile

  10. workingmomwm profile image85
    workingmomwmposted 4 years ago

    >>I believe God exists. I do not believe the devil exists. Can I still be a Christian?>>

    If you believe in the existence of God, why wouldn't you believe that the devil exists? Jesus Himself knew of the devil's existence (see Luke 10:18, among many other verses).

    Besides, belief in God does not save you. Belief in Jesus Christ and accepting His atoning sacrifice on the cross is what saves you, along with turning away from your sin and toward God - making Him Lord of your life (see Romans 10:9). This is what saves you. That is what makes you a Christian - living your life the way Christ lived His.   

    You, of course, have free will. You are almost always in control of your own actions. You do have the power to make your own decisions. The devil can only influence you. He can't make the decisions for you. And, once you become a believer, the Holy Spirit enters you and also influences your decisions for the better. It is not contradictory. That is the struggle every believer has to face - the old (flesh) constantly coming up against the new (spirit) and trying to destroy (or at least damage) it.

    Most people do not hear the audible voices of either God or the devil, and some who say they do are often mistaken. God speaks most often to us through His Word and prayer. I agree with the others who have stated that you need to start here. I wish you well in your spiritual journey.

    1. couturepopcafe profile image60
      couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "If you believe in the existence of God, why wouldn't you believe that the devil exists?"

      One does not preclude the other, IMO.  I believe god exists but not the way Christians do.  There is no need of a devil to prove a god.  God resides within us, all of us.  It is up to us to grow god within us, or perhaps better put, to find god.  God is love.  There is no other god.  The light within you is love.  There is no other god.  The Bible's metaphor of Jesus is simply love.

      1. workingmomwm profile image85
        workingmomwmposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I do agree that there is no need of a devil to prove God. God is who He is. I don't agree with anything else you've said, but I respect your right to disagree.

        The logic of my statement is found in the context of the OP's question. I believe that true Christians do believe in both God and the devil because Jesus is the example, and Jesus believed in the devil and demons and knew all sorts of other things that we can't, as humans, ever fully understand.

    2. lizzieBoo profile image78
      lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Good point workingmomwm. Christ himself recognised his vulnerability to the devil.

      1. rbe0 profile image60
        rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I am invulnerable to the devil. SOrry guys. I guess i can never beleive in the devil since im invulnerable to his evil influence...

  11. ii3rittles profile image85
    ii3rittlesposted 4 years ago

    I believe God exists. I do not believe the devil exists. Can I still be a Christian?

    I wouldn't focus so much on being a "Christian" after all, it is only a label used to state your beliefs. I grew up with my little cousin being my best friend and she never believed in hell or the devil, only God. Even at a young age I questioned it because there is so much evil in the world. There is always a yin yang effect to everything, including us. There is good and there is bad. By definition, you can't be a Christian because Jesus Christ died for our sins so we don't go to hell. If you don't believe in the Devil aka Lucifer, you don't believe the bible and there is no need for Jesus Christ.

    The devil was defined to me by a high ranking christian as a spiritual being without a body who controls or influences people to do evil.

    The Devil was once and angel named Lucifer. He was God's right hand angel. He was a beautiful being. He turned on God and took many angels with him. I'm still not quite sure what an angel looks like, But I'd imagine they are more energy then physical, if that makes sense. He can be in the physical form or spiritual form at any given moment because he was once an angel. He also has demons to do his dirty work, which is how he easily controls people. He attacks our brains and thoughts knowing we are all week minded people.

    I choose to believe that only I can make my decisions, no invisible spirits can tell me what to do or not to do, and even if they did I wouldn't listen anyways.

    There are only two things that should guide you in life, your own heart and LOVE(God). The teachings of Jesus are meant to help you understand, however, how God would like you to live.

    I do not hear voices of the devil or god speaking to me, maybe I have been cast out of god's light? Maybe I have been cast out of the devil's darkness?
    This seems OK to me because I wouldn't want to ever not be in control of my own actions.

    To hear God or to hear Lucifer is not what it may sound like. When I hear God I hear Him in my thought process or my intuition. I may ask Him a question, and something may randomly come to thought, or I may see something as a sign. Lucifer, on the other hand, plays with your emotions and your thoughts. He makes you THINK certain thinks are ok, when they are not. It seems to me, you are bound in your physical form. You must live by the spirit to understand life, good and evil, fear and love.

    If being in god's light also requires me to allow the devil to gain control over my thoughts or actions, how is this not contradictory.

    Being in God's light is being in His protection. He will never let harm come to us, who are protected, unless it will in turn, make something right in us, or other people. We also turn away from His protection when we choose to listen to our flesh.

    In short, you can sin and be a Christian but you must believe in the devil, good and evil, love and fear, ect. to be a Christian. What's the point if you don't? If you don't your not believing or understand the bible.

  12. macrobin profile image82
    macrobinposted 4 years ago

    God created the world and all things in it.  He created the masculine and feminine part of Himself into two separate human beings (Adam & Eve).  He ordered them have dominion over EVERYTHING on the earth and everything was subject to them.  He only gave them one direct command was to stay away from the tree of good and evil.  The serpent twisted the 'truth' about what God had told them and they chose to believe the lie and in doing so, gave up their authority over everything on the earth.  From that point on, the serpent (or the devil) has been the ruler of this world and will be so until Christ comes back to earth to regain His rightful throne.  When any person or individual chooses to believe the words of Christ in Scripture, they gain back their authority that they were always meant to have.  It's not a matter of 'believing in the devil'  or hearing his voice.  You have a spirit within you given to you by God that 'knows' good from evil'.  You simply make a choice every minute of your life whether you will choose one or the other.  You can also view it as choosing life/death or wise/foolish decisions.  As far as your being a Christian, that simply means you have chosen to believe that God, in His love for His children, sent a part of His spirit through Mary, who gave birth to a physical male that houses His spirit and His name is Jesus.  Through His death on the cross, He took our punishment so that we would be able to live with Him forever.  Because you have made this choice, doesn't mean that you have to go to any building called 'Church' or only hang around with other 'Christians'.  Granted, that makes being a 'Christian' a more pleasant experience for the most part, but it definitely isn't required.  If you choose not to believe in the devil, that doesn't mean you aren't a Christian.  Simply ask God to reveal the 'truth' to you concerning these areas and any other areas you have questions about. You're learning as a toddler who is growing and learning new things.  Your Father is more than happy to teach you all you need to know!  I've written quite a few Hubs on this subject if you're interested!  Feel free to contact me anytime!  Have a very blessed Christmas this year my friend!

  13. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    ROFLMAO...

    He announces he is considering conversion and boy do people start crawling out of the woodwork... Is God giving away a steak knife set for every 5 souls saved this month?

    It's like a 19 year old blond girl walking onto a used car lot with a wad full of cash and a vapid look. 

    It would be so much funnier if you all weren't pushing him to make a decision that might affect his life based on your own agendas.  You all should really be ashamed of yourself for trying to take advantage of him.

    rbeo, believe whatever you want to believe.  But believe it because if feels right, not because a bunch of vultures on an internet forum told you it was right.

    1. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The thAng is; is that, There was/IS a such thing as a real ONE, and people knew it;  ... "unTill"  .. the tourist Trade started selling "little" dolls in It's image.

        And they come in  "MANY" colors.

  14. AshtonFirefly profile image83
    AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago

    I would suggest you not try to put such a label on yourself.
    Believe what you believe.

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      str8 an to the point. thx

  15. ccomish profile image61
    ccomishposted 4 years ago

    Yes if you believe you are a Christian, you are. Don't let a church make the decision for you, if they deny you seek another. Jesus always has open arms for those who believe in him.

  16. Claire Evans profile image89
    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago

    Christianity doesn't mean anything if one doesn't believe in the devil.  The Christian faith revolves around Jesus taking on the sin of the world and being completely separated from God and that is the state of hell.  The resurrection represents the conquering of hell and death. 

    If you don't want to make God's will your own, then there is no point in being a Christian. 


    You don't mean literal voices right? No one hears that.  You learn to be intuitive to God's spiritual voice and easily recognize that which is of the devil. 

    Being in God's light doesn't automatically make one devoid of sin.  The light helps us repent and be forgiven.  You can be saved yet still allow Satan to take control.  If a person's life is just one big sin, then they cannot be in God's light.

    I think you are better off not partaking in the Christian religion because you aren't serious about Jesus.

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't know who you are talking to, but I will say that you've overstepped your bounds. It is no one's right to say another doesn't get it and should forget a spiritual direction because they don't see things your way. What anything means to you is for you. And you alone.

      1. Claire Evans profile image89
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        People can't mold Christianity into the way they see fit.  I don't see how one can say they have accepted Jesus as the Son of God then say they wouldn't listen to God anyway.  The point of being a Christian is to give your will to Him.  However, if a person is prepared to learn about the Holy Spirit and likes the idea of submitting to God's will and thinks joining the Christian Church will help them do this, then I think joining is a good idea.    Rbe0 should persist in finding a priest who is willing to discuss his/her wish.  If they just flatly turn down his/her application, then that is wrong.  There will be a priest eventually who will be more than happy to assist.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          People mold Christianity every day. You are doing it now. That's grand for you. But, don't push your vision on others.

          1. Claire Evans profile image89
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Emile, how is needing to recognizing the Devil to be a Christian and that you must submit to Jesus' will molding Christianity in the way I feel fit? If you don't want to do Jesus' will, what's the point of accepting Him as your saviour? No point.  You need to be 100% in allegiance with Him.  You can't contradict Him. 

            It's a bit strange that you say I mustn't push my vision on others when the point of this blog is to answer the question, "Can I still be a Christian?" I am assuming that  Rbe0 is wanting contribution from Christians.  It would be unbalanced if only non Christians answered.  Don't be unreasonable.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I consider myself to be quite reasonable. The only time I have commented is when people said no, but it is simply my opinion; as is yours.

              Spiritually speaking, no one knows what is in your heart but you and the spirit. Only you can determine who and what you are. Audacity comes when another assumes it is their place to decide how the spirit has moved another. If the OP feels drawn to the spirit through Christianity; the OP is a Christian. Whether you 'approve' or not. That's your ego, not your authority, driving your advice.

              1. Claire Evans profile image89
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am pointing out what the doctrines of the Church are.  I did not write the Bible and I am not the church.  If I was making up beliefs that the Christian Church does not recognize, then obviously I don't know what I'm talking about.  If the Rbe0 wants to join the Church, she/he has to abide by their rules. 

                I don't know how you expected to Christians to answer this question.  Do you think that all Christians should agree with her/him? Then what's the point of asking the question, then? If you don't agree with what I say, then leave me alone.  I have a right to an opinion and to state the truth.

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  YOUR Christian church... not THE Christian church.  Just saying. There are lots of denominations. But I'm sure only YOURS is right.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image89
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    How many Christian churches preach that Satan doesn't exist and that one doesn't have to submit to Jesus' will if they want to be a Christian? I'm interested to know.

                2. 0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL. I adore your last statement. You have a right to an opinion and to state the truth. You do understand those are two different things, don't you? Apparently not. Unfortunately, I do and your opinion is just that. You don't possess the right to claim what I perceive as a foolish statement as truth, without being called out for it. So sorry. smile

                  1. Claire Evans profile image89
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    In other aspects of my life, some is opinion some is the truth and some is both.  I don't think this should bother you too much.  I don't think Rbe0 is having sleepless nights about what I wrote.

        2. Cassie Smith profile image74
          Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          This thread was a chance to make fun of Christians it seems.  Rbe0 chose to look for answers about faith in a Hubpages forum?  Christians in this thread have tried to be helpful by making suggestions but it has not been appreciated.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            People try to be helpful from every angle. Christians are no more appreciative of alternative views than others, it seems.

            1. Cassie Smith profile image74
              Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Not sure if it's helpful from every angle if the question was about Christianity and people are making fun of the answers or telling OP to disregard answers coming from Christians.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I personally see it as opportunistic to see Christians flocking to tell someone interested in the religion exactly what beliefs they will have to give up and which to keep to earn the title "Christian".  It's funny how those seem to fit the fundamentalist evangelical mold.  There are different kinds of Christians. "Shrugs" If he follows Christs teachings then he's a Christian... no matter what else.  If he believes in a God but not Christ, then he's got about a thousand other choices.  EACH ONE VALID.

                So, he needs to decide what he believes then if he wants to, slap a label on it of the religion that comes closest.

              2. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thirty thousand sects. Yes. Thirty thousand of them. No one gets to make the call on the validity of another person's beliefs. If that's a problem, that's life.

                1. Cassie Smith profile image74
                  Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  None of us have any authority.  He asked a question, he got several answers, all of them opinions that he can ignore or not.  So no, I'm not appreciative of alternate views that tell him to ignore Christians when the OP specifically asked a question about Christianity. And we will continue to answer questions. That too is life and yeah, too bad for those who think it's a problem.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You're the one being touchy about the whole idea of alternative views.  I think it's childish and foolish when people get upset because others express an opinion, but that's just an opinion. You know what they get compared to. smile

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Really? I thought it was all about the teachings of Jesus. 



      lol But, if you're serious about the devil, then you're on the right path.

    3. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for the great response... Has helped me to make my decision...


      Bye Bye Christianity...

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I know right...

        Christians are killing Christianity.

        1. rbe0 profile image60
          rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No... im just happy that she approached me in an intelligent manner and brought up some good ideas i had not encountered before.

          South Africans are good at that tho.

          Love South Africans.

      2. Claire Evans profile image89
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Great decision.  It's all or nothing, I say.  There is no in-between.

        1. rbe0 profile image60
          rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          http://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/smileys/happyheart.gifhttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/smileys/hypno.gifhttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/smileys/happyheart.gif...I think I am in love...http://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/smileys/happyheart.gifhttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/smileys/hypno.gifhttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/smileys/happyheart.gif

          1. Claire Evans profile image89
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Huh?

            1. rbe0 profile image60
              rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, I don't know how I could have made myself more clear.

              1. Claire Evans profile image89
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                What's shroomery?

                1. rbe0 profile image60
                  rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh. thats a mistake. I was linking little pictures of hearts for emoticons. but the shroomery website blocked them from showing up i guess.

                2. rbe0 profile image60
                  rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Basically shroomery is a website with forums that are full of genius free thinkers.

                3. rbe0 profile image60
                  rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  this is what it should have looked like...
                  http://s2.hubimg.com/u/5939269.png

                  putting it bluntly, reading what you write makes me feel i am falling in love with you.

                  Have a nice day. ♥♥♥

                  1. Claire Evans profile image89
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Ah, that's so nice, handsome man!

  17. olodarkwriter profile image58
    olodarkwriterposted 4 years ago

    It is interesting that so many of the people who consider themselves experts on Christianity are not Christians. Asking their advice or opinion is sort of like asking a Democrat what it means to be a Republican. Kind of pointless.

    The popular concept of religion today is kind of pointless too. Not religion at all, just personal philosophy in which the individual gets to make up the rules. I do that when I play solitaire. That way I win more often.

    What does it mean to be a Christian anyway? Who gets to make the rules? I would think it would be Christ. How can one claim to be a follower of Christ, then rearrange the rules like I do when playing solitaire? Talk about the tail wagging the dog. Since the New Testament is the record we have of Christ, it seems like a person wanting to be a follower of Christ would look to it for information. In spite of what many like to claim, it is much more historically reliable than almost all ancient documents we accept as truth out of hand. If you don't want to let Christ make the rules, and you don't want to accept the record we have of him, then go on and do something else. Join the Elks lodge or the Concatenated order of Hoo-Hoo.

    By the way, Jesus spoke much more about the devil and Hell in the New Testament than he did heaven.

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Christianity is a religion. Religion is like little league sports used to be. None of the kids have a handle on the game because they've only been given a rudimentary understanding of how the game is played.

      One kid might be over in left field chasing butterflies but he is still part of the team. One kid has all of the swagger and imagines he's a pygmy pro; but he's as fumble thumbed as the rest. Each child is unique but they all signed up to play and they are all given the opportunity to be a part of something and to dream that they are a valuable part of the team.

      Some, think they have the right to tell those who want to play they can't. As if only they can read the game book. Shame on them. We try to teach children better. It might be time for some adults to grow up.

    2. Claire Evans profile image89
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Good response.

  18. Don Crowson profile image78
    Don Crowsonposted 4 years ago

    Hey, the Bible says that you believe in your hear and confess with you mouth and you shall be saved.  Perhaps some so-called Christians don't know that.  BTW Not everyone who say "Lord, Lord." will be saved.  Only t6hose who do the will of the Father.  You can do that as well as anyone claiming to be a Christian or anyone who tries to tell you that you are not a Christian.  Believe it or not.

  19. rLcasaLme profile image50
    rLcasaLmeposted 4 years ago

    Jeremiah 17:9
    The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

    1 Corinthians 2: 11
    For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

    If you truly believe in the Lord, who can know it?
    I will not judge you if you truly are a christian or not. But, if you believe the Bible as an authentic word of God, then you should not eliminate things what you wouldn't like hearing or reading. They were written for us to see and not take for granted. If the Bible said Satan exists, why would you reject it?

    1 Corinthians 2: 14-16
    The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes the heart can be deceitful, but there's a reason you have the brain. To understand it.
      Nothing like adding conjecture to a thread. lol Not to mention, quote "sections" of the bible, which believers love to bash non-believers for doing.
      No one needs to know.
      Sure you will, otherwise you go against yourself and human nature.
      Due to the fact that NOT everything in the bible is actual truth, nor is it to be taken literally. There are tons of metaphors in the hundreds, if not thousands of parables written. Which YOU don't probably know the meaning to.
      Hmmm....another spirituality conversation is meaningless. Define it first, then we'll talk.
      This is too funny.

      1. rLcasaLme profile image50
        rLcasaLmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hmm... I am kind of new in these forums and I wasn't expecting such a reply. I can feel the heat right from here. Well, at least, i've learned something today.

        1. workingmomwm profile image85
          workingmomwmposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, rLcasaLme. Bible-believing Christians enter these forums at their own peril. I learned that early on. These religious forums are really not set up for discussion. They're set up for bashing and hating and insulting--often from both sides. :-(

          That's why I only make an occasional appearance and don't waste time arguing.

          1. rLcasaLme profile image50
            rLcasaLmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks for the advice workingmomwm. will definitely remember that.

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Btw- be careful on the some of the ill-advised posts some people make. Some consider, just disagreeing as 'bashing'. lol

  20. jackieedwards profile image60
    jackieedwardsposted 4 years ago

    The Bible should be your guide to Christianity, not man.  For by grace are ye saved through faith, not by work lest no man should boast...Ephesians 2:8-9.  Christianity is a relationship with Christ, not with man.  Christ wants to have a relationship with you.....not because you are so good or you have status or anything else.  Simply, because He wants to.  Grace is something we receive even though we don't deserve it.  About the devil... Yes, there is a devil.  The Bible says it, I believe it.  The devil/Satan uses people and situations to influence us to do wrong.   I guess in basketball you would say he is  assisting.  He sets things up to look really good.  Then he tries to encourage us to take the ball and run with it.  When we fall for his trap, he has accomplished his job.  Notice, I said "we"...our life is a choice.  No, the devil didn't make you do it!

  21. Annie pnd profile image59
    Annie pndposted 4 years ago

    I wouldn't bother. I would just be yourself. There is no salvation any more. It's all make believe.

  22. Vapid Maven profile image61
    Vapid Mavenposted 4 years ago

    Sounds like your headed more in the direction of secularism which is a good thing. Free yourself from false judgement..

  23. Ms Dee profile image86
    Ms Deeposted 4 years ago

    workingmomwm, My sentiments, exactly smile  I think this is the better part of wisdom, so to speak.

  24. KTHolloman profile image61
    KTHollomanposted 4 years ago

    I have not read any of the other posts, so I hope that I am not being redundant. But, I have to say that any church that would turn away or hesitate to include someone - anyone- with a desire to worship and therefore learn of Christianity is not a church that I would want to be a apart of. Being Christian does not mean wearing a title like a name tag as in having reached a certain position. To be Christian is to learn. We sin and we seek forgiveness. But, to seek forgiveness, requires discovering the ways in which we have sinned.

    Your beliefs as you list them now may not be your beliefs 6 months from now. The reason will not be because you are fickle, but that you have been enlightened by the study of scripture. If you believe in God, seek His wisdom. It's there in the Bible. And if a church doesn't support your quest for knowledge, look for another church.

    1. LoriSoard profile image80
      LoriSoardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I couldn't agree more, KT.

  25. NiaLee profile image61
    NiaLeeposted 4 years ago

    all religions and philosophies have different ways to materialize or charactarize the devil...negative energy, own weakness, so many. The thing is to make it a point to define right and wrong, good and bad, positive and negative, so you can start working on cleansing, feeding and growing your being.
    I sometimes question things, then I realize we say the same things in a different language.

    Now, religions can be straight and cut short when you do not accept a concept!
    Maybe you need to look for another place to worship that will fit you.

    1. Cassie Smith profile image74
      Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That's what I say.  But people who aren't Christian try to put the label on anything. It shows such a lack of understanding.

  26. LeanChris profile image79
    LeanChrisposted 4 years ago

    For a $55 Fee; with annual $35 fee; I will certify you as a Christian.

    I also offer insurance against going to hell for another $20 a month. In the event of you going to hell; the policy will pay out $42,329 to you or a designated family member. Yes; $42,329 is the exact cost to get one out of hell.

    1. LeanChris profile image79
      LeanChrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Take a second; and read all of that. Take it in.

      Your assumption that you need anyone else to validate your beliefs is about as absurd.

  27. 0
    Robin71posted 4 years ago

    Yes, understanding isn't required.

  28. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 4 years ago

    Well, I can definitely say one thing about this thread- the ladies have it. lol lol

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      what can i say... they loves meh....

  29. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    "Am I still allowed to be a Christian?"

    Yes

  30. 0
    kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago

    Yes

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks kimberly

  31. 61
    mglc83posted 4 years ago

    Christian means- to follow Christ or have the mind of Christ.
    What that should mean for those wanting to be "Christian" is that you should read your bible daily and strive to live according to what the bible teaches. There is a whole lot more to being a Christian than what this church is expecting from you to know.... I would look further into a religion who teaches from the bible- what you were told from that church is NOT from the bible...

  32. rbe0 profile image60
    rbe0posted 4 years ago

    Much thanks to DaKingsKid who actually approached me in an intelligent manner instead of a fear-mongering manner. You made a great impression on me. However, I did not have time to read every post in this thread. I've been banned for the last 3 days from the forums.

    Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread, some of you even indirectly inspired me to write my first attempt at poetry, which I published at HP yesterday morning.

    HellFire http://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/smileys/hellfire.gifhttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/smileys/mspy.gifMe

    I am still in the process of completing DaKingsKid advice.

    1. 60
      passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What church did you try to join?

      1. rbe0 profile image60
        rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        go answer my question i asked you in your LDS bashing thread and i might tell u.

      2. rbe0 profile image60
        rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Here ill even give you a quick URL straight to it.

        http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/89537

        Bad sockpuppet, no hand for you!

  33. Vapid Maven profile image61
    Vapid Mavenposted 4 years ago

    A question you may want to ask yourself. Why do you want to be a christian anyways? I have found that belief in yourself along with your family and friends is all you really need in life. Religion whether christian or other is a product of man. You may find a lot of meaning in the messages but think about it. Most of it is common knowledge and not the word of any deity.

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Im open to trying new things. My parents told me christianity was totally coolest thing since sliced bread. my parents iz rly smart. I took their advice and tried to join.

  34. 0
    Muldaniaposted 4 years ago

    I didn't realise some churches have to be applied to.  Anyone who believes in the Christian god has a right to call themselves a Christian.  There are so many different denominations with different beliefs, that it is not possible to define what a Christian is.  However, believing in Jesus is the one point on which they would all have to agree.  As to the devil, the Christian understanding of such a being developed over the centuries, and is now quite different to the Jewish idea, which Christ would have been familiar with.

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      go try and join one and see what happens. it will be eye opening experience me braar

  35. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    Yeah, one more thing...

    What is with the high-ranking Christian thing?  I was unaware that Christianity had a grand high poohbah.  From what I understand, each denomination pretty much has it's own hiarchy... which once again puts it back to denomination vs. denomination...

    Or was Rush Limbaugh finally crowned King of Christianity?

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      He was a bishop. Thats higher than... a normal christian i guess.?

  36. MickeySr profile image87
    MickeySrposted 4 years ago

    I didn't even finish reading your initial post's question - I saw that you attempted to join a church, etc, but stopped to write this response, because regardless of anyone's circumstance . . .

    . . . anyone, anywhere, any time can become a Christian, and if become a Christian you are a Christian and you cannot un-become a Christian. Someone who is either a Christian or is not a Christian may not be welcomed to participate in some particular congregation because of any number of reasons - but only you yourself can prevent you from being a Christian.

    Hindu, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, child, murderer, whatever - anyone who trusts in Jesus alone as their only hope I must count to be a brother and fellow Christian. Doesn't matter what you were or what you did prior to believing the gospel, doesn't matter what church you go to or don't go to, doesn't matter how fully and exactly you understand all the theology behind it, etc, etc - if you count Jesus to have accomplished salvation through His sacrifice and trust in Him alone as your only hope, you have come to such a point because God has opened your eyes and softened your heart to His truth, He has given you His own Spirit and has adopted you as His child . . . you are a Christian regardless of what man has to say about it.

    And, the reverse is equally true; if you're not trusting in Jesus alone as your only hope but maintain some confidence in your own goodness or your participation in some church every Sunday or doing good deeds or in simply not being so terribly bad, etc, no matter how religious you are and no matter how upright your conduct, etc, you are without hope. The gospel message is; Jesus alone is our only hope and all who trust in Him alone will be saved.

  37. LoriSoard profile image80
    LoriSoardposted 4 years ago

    I agree with what Mickey said, belonging to a church doesn't make you a Christian. My old pastor loved the saying, and I'm not sure who originally said it, but "sitting in church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than sitting in your garage makes you a car."

    If you've accepted Jesus as your savior, then you are a Christian (John 3:16). I think as you study and read the Bible that you'll come to learn more and may change your mind. Also, if you get involved and start doing good for God's Kingdom, you will quickly realize that there is a very real spiritual battle out there.

    My advice? Find another church. Find a church that is willing to love you and embrace you and teach you and not just turn you away. That sounds like a very unloving church to me and trust me that you don't want to go to an unloving church. There are so many churches out there. Just make sure they believe the basics you believe and the Truth of the Bible and you'll be fine. Good luck.

    1. LoriSoard profile image80
      LoriSoardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Ummm... I meant change your mind about the devil being real. smile

  38. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    @ Claire,

    Yeah, I'm going to save the bandwidth and not reply to your post with the reply button. 

    You aren't really making any new points so there's really nothing to reply to anyway.  It boils down to you think the bible is literal, I think it is figurative.  We both believe we are right and I'm sure you care as little about my opinion as I do about yours.  When we find out which of us is really right then we likely will have other things to worry about than an internet conversation.

    1. Claire Evans profile image89
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You don't have a logical argument so I know I'm right.

  39. paoloumali profile image60
    paoloumaliposted 4 years ago

    If you believe Christ, then probably you are a Christian. How will you know you believe Christ? They say the Bible is up for grab. If you don't believe what the Bible say, then probably, your Christ is found somewhere else.

  40. Michele Travis profile image64
    Michele Travisposted 4 years ago

    I think you can. I just wrote a hub about it.  A lot of people will disagree with it.  Well, most people will, but it is just what I believe.

    1. rbe0 profile image60
      rbe0posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Dude thanks!

      I'm gonna go check it out right now.

      Even though I already decided I am a christian.

      I decided to claim the title without asking nicely first.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Just curious, is it your goal in life to believe in things many will disagree? What purpose does that serve you? How does it help?

  41. olodarkwriter profile image58
    olodarkwriterposted 4 years ago

    Whatever. Pagans actually KILLED their children. Abraham didn't and wasn't required to by God, which is the whole point. The god of the Bible is DIFFERENT from the false pagan gods. The Old Testament specifically forbids occult activity. Some characters in the OT engaged in it but they did a lot of other forbidden things too. Maybe you could try READING and comprehending before commenting. Try Deuteronomy 18, 9-12, Jeremiah 10:2; 27:9-10; Daniel 2:1-4; Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:2-5; 2 Kings 21:3, 5; Zephaniah 1:5; Job 31:26-28; Jeremiah 8:1-2,  Isaiah 47:10-19,
    Deuteronomy 18:10-12; 2 Kings 21:6; Micah 5:12; Isaiah 47:12; Ezekiel 13:18, 20; Acts 8:11-24; Leviticus 20:27; Exodus 7:11; Revelation 9:21; 22:15, (Galatians 5:20-21,

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sacrificing children has always been about appeasing imaginary gods and just because your God no longer condones infanticide does not mean your religion has evolved, gaining morals and ethics in it's wisdom. Your God still teaches and causes people to do bad things.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No truthful revealed religion has any teachings to sacrifice children or other human beings.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If one had to turn to a religion to understand that, then one should never have contact with children or other human beings.

          1. mischeviousme profile image60
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The problem is theist slingers and their personal ideologies. I think religion is pointless, but I think that if they were viewed as great stories, it wouldn't have gotten as bad as it has.

          2. 68
            paarsurreyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Those people who kill any human being unlawfully are cruel persons.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Lawfully = Justified by God?

      2. mischeviousme profile image60
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        People do bad things because they can. It has nothing to do with belief, it is a truth. Anything one does is by decision and is not caused by a religion or what have you. I have failed when I decided to give my brain to someone else, when I ever I believed something manmade.

        Of course, my views now as opposed to then have changed. I have accepted the world as it is, as I see it. It does not mean that I am wrong, it means I question the workings of my mind. I do it because I can.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Nonsense. We don't do bad things because we understand that doing bad things can have severe consequences to our survival in society where we would become ostracized and alienated, which does not benefit us in any way.

          We also understand we wouldn't want others doing bad things to us giving us ample reason not to do bad things to them.

          If people did bad things because they could, then we'd all be doing bad things.

          1. mischeviousme profile image60
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            People that have a natural fear of the law don't do bad things, that doesn't  mean the thought is not there.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Neither those who do good things or those who do bad things have few if any considerations for the law, and for completely different reasons.

              1. mischeviousme profile image60
                mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And they are usually disturbed individuals, but it still has to do with some deeper problem. Not all people with multiple personallities are dangerous.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, a deeper problem, one that is not of our nature but is instead an external influence.

  42. 68
    paarsurreyposted 4 years ago

    Am I still allowed to be a Christian?

    If you think sincerely that you are a Christian; nobody could deny you your faith. It is your own discretion to declare your faith.

  43. capricornrising profile image60
    capricornrisingposted 4 years ago

    This from a PK (preacher's kid): please don't be stymied by the ridiculous dogma others are trying to push on you. True Christians respect who you are and what you believe, whether or not they agree with you.

    That you had to "apply" to be part of a "church" disturbs me. True Christians are about faith, not dogma. Find another church - there are others who are open to you, and who believe this one true thing: God and Jesus don't need you to "prove yourself" to be accepted into any church - they know that the fact that you've come at all, as you are - unsure, seeking answers, or already confident in your faith - makes you a child of God.

  44. Don Crowson profile image78
    Don Crowsonposted 4 years ago

    It doesn't matter if you think the Binle ios Liter or not.  It matters only if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, and you want to accept His salvation and make Him Lord of your life.

    You have a mind of your own and you can choose your own path.  God gave you freewill to do that. The Devil will tempt you, but you are an overcomer through Christ.

    Don't let anyone tell you that you cannot be a Christian.  It is your choice and your relationship that you establish with the Father.

  45. Perspycacious profile image73
    Perspycaciousposted 4 years ago

    This has to be one of the most commented on questions of all time!  What a wonderful and spirited discussion.  Please cap it off by letting us know whether you became a Christian or are still pondering what you believe and how you choose to live your life.  In the Talmud is says:  "The test of a man's life is not his theology, but his life."  Live a good, decent, compassionate, kind, and humble life, and I am sure you will meet that test. That is how Christ lived his.

  46. DaKingsKid profile image57
    DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago

    Hey, beyond all the comments that have been made, since I have not been on here for sometime now, I was just wondering how you are doing? Things can get pretty crazy with so many personalities flying around dropping their lines... I was just thinking that I would like to know how you are truly doing, and see if everything is alright with you... Would love to chat so message me if you'd like too....

  47. ii3rittles profile image85
    ii3rittlesposted 4 years ago

    The only things you need to be a true Christian is salvation (Thru Christ), repentance (Of sins) and love (for God).

    1. vector7 profile image59
      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'll second that rbe.

    2. DaKingsKid profile image57
      DaKingsKidposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Praise God... Well SAID.....

 
working