When someone praised him and referred to him as ‘good’ as mentioned in the gospel of Mark, Jesus was quick to point out that he was not worthy of any praise and that ‘ No one is good but God alone’.
Jesus was a humble human being and held the Creator God in high esteem
The greatest treasures in life are awarded to those that consider others first and the self last.
Jesus wasn't referring to himself there. He was making a point to human beings that they can never be perfect within themselves, but that they must strive to be like God, keeping His commandments, etc. Jesus was God in a fleshly body. He WAS perfect, sinless.
I'm sorry you cannot see that. Unless and until you can realize that Jesus was the perfect Sacrifice and the perfect Savior, you won't be able to understand who God is.
"He who puts his life before another is truly devine". What of the good semeritain? "The light of God rests in all men's hearts". what do these things mean? If we were not meant to find answers, then surely your God intended for us to remain stupid. Remaining as a child, does not mean don't think for yourself. Free will helps us to decide what is devine and what is not. The words of men will always be overshadowed by universal truths and absolute truth. We were meant to find the answers, not have them handed to us. Enlightenment is easy, Christianity makes too easy. I will not be blinded by your ego, though I will learn to see through my own...
First of all, can we spell it right? Divine.
Please cite references for your quotes so that I can give opinion on them.?
And what do you mean by my "ego"?
In case you don't know, paarsurrey believes in Islam, from what I understand from his posts. He doesn't understand who Jesus really was and is. So, I was replying to him from that knowledge.
Everyone has ego and it is this that our illusions to right and wrong are born. There are certain universal laws and spelling has nothing to do with them. So if you'd please be humble enough to squelch your ego for a moment? One needs law and DIVINE law does not apply to the living, so this is my point; I don't care. I have tried to impart personal wisdom and you have angered the God inside myself. What I say is what is, you can agree or disagree it matters not, but personal attacks are uncalled for.
Oh my. You certainly ARE "mischievous", aren't you?! LOL. You almost had my interest even after the comment about me "angering" the God inside yourself. But ya lost me when you referred to personal attacks, of which I've done none, but you have come mighty close already to doing!
To say that we can spell divine and hold it over my head was an attack. Even I am subject to anger from time to time. For that I appologise. What I was trying to impart was this. I can follow any number of men and teachings, but it is the truth and the law of self that matters, this is our moral compass. I hope I have not offended you to deeply. I am human and for that I appologise. Do you accept?
No, I won't say it was an attack because it wasn't!
But Yes, I accept your apology!
Do you want to start over? I'm okay with that.
May I ask you to define the "law of self" that you referred to?
Again I appologise. The law of self, is the recognition of moral aptitude. I see people everyday that are bound by the laws of their religion, yet they still commit attrocities, some more than others. Being saved does not free one from sin, it should be the will of the student to be faithful to the teaching and do as the teacher would do, until it is time to move on. This does not mean that the teaching should go away, but respected. I respect the law and it is my choice to pay heed to it. This is the law of self, how we govern the life we have, how we relate to others and how we treat the world at large.
If you're saying that people can do good things on their own, can love others and be compassionate, yes they can.
But if you're saying people can be perfect on their own, can rule their own destiny and don't need God, no they can't.
I'm not sure what you're saying, so I'd be interested in hearing more.
And what did you mean by "the God inside" yourself? Are you born-again, a Christian? Or no?
I am just as you. I am and God is with me. I do not need religion to be one with God, I like you am from God and the great teachers knew this. Jesus did not speek so much of law, as he was trying to put things in a way that you would understand. If I do this, that will happen. If I do that, this will happen and so on it goes. All things change and I had to change to find God. I had to realize that God has always been with me, I just wasn't looking, I had to trick my mind to see it. The great teachers tried to trick your mind into seeing, the thing is, we were not ready. We have to choose for ourselve's when we are ready.
Well....I'm now of God because I've accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. But I wasn't "from" God before that. I, as all mankind, was created by Him, but I didn't directly issue from God Himself like Jesus did.
The great teachers? I dunno who you mean.
The Apostles of the Bible were great teachers, yes. Jesus was a great teacher, yes, but that's not all he was. He was God in the flesh. If you're meaning the great teachers like the famous philosophers, etc., then no worry about me being tricked into anything, because I believe in the Bible's words, not any other writings.
If it brings you peace, so be it. I do not desire to be with God for he is with me. I do not seek God from without, but from within. God is everywhere and is in everything and everyone, we just have to be willing to see it, through ourselve's and our massive egos. "I am right so therefor, you are wrong". How many times have you heard that? Does it matter? Do you think it matters to God? The true self does not see these things, it only sees the self and herein lies the problem. Can you get the true self to see the world and accept it?
God made everything or caused it to come into being or provided the materials for it to come into being or be made, yes. But I don't believe God is IN everything, no. He's not "in" a wooden block or a stone or a tree, etc.
Matter of fact, He's not even in everyone's heart. The Bible says we must make a choice to Love God and to be born-again, to have Him in our hearts.
Yes, it matters. Truth matters. Yes, it matters to God.
Well, I can see that we have opposite views of who and what God is. Am I correct in that?
It's been good talking with ya. Always interesting to hear someone else's views. But not enlightening. Because these things were already told to us in the Bible, that many would not believe His straightforward word, His declaration in Genesis 1: 1 and all the passages that allow us to know who He was and is and is to come.
Of late, I see none as wrong, not for their beliefs anyway. It took many years away from religion to find myself or my self. I see the teachings of Jesus to be true and so then I find that all people have the same in common. I hear and see God everyday and I did not need anything to do it, I just had to listen and look. If you ever wish for me to do so, I will show you how to find God. You just have to be willing to listen and see.
How to find Him?
He's not hidden from me.
He found me, pulled me up and saved my soul, Amen. It is His face I seek every time I pray. It is His voice I hear when I ask for confirmation that He's with me.
But hey if you have some insight to share, feel free to do so. I'm willing to learn more wisdom if it's available. That is, as long as it follows the Bible and doesn't involve chanting or mindless meditation, etc. Please be direct and straightforward, no talking in riddles, etc., because He is knowable and His voice is hearable and His Love is unmistakeable. What else can you tell me about Him that I don't already know, that isn't already written in His word the Holy Bible or spoken through the Spirit?
Ifyou believe that the good book has all the answers, I have nothing I can teach you. One must empty the cup, so to speak.
This is a simplified way for me to say this. I look at how unique my fingerprints are and I see God. I see God in change, for nothing stays the same. I see God in the eye of a fish or the brick of a building. The most important thing, I see God within myself.
Have you given your heart and soul to Jesus Christ?
Did you recognize yourself as a sinner and ask Him to forgive you of your sins?
Do you recognize Him as the Savior?
Do you believe He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
Do you believe God sent His Son Jesus to be born of a virgin?
Do you believe he was crucified on the Cross, died, and rose again to be received into heaven?
Long ago, I began searching for something. I went to many churches to find it. When it wasn't there, I converted to any religion that would take me. I followed gurus and read books and meditated. I found that these ways mean nothing and that I had to find my own way. Jesus's teachings are with me, so then are all people and things and places. I cannot change this, it had to be changed from within. I got tired of looking out and being lead, it was time for me to be awake and I arose. Noone lead me but my search for God and truth.
You speak in riddles and mystery?
So you're a believer in mysticism?
I'm sorry, but I've heard this type of stuff before. It didn't sway me then and it doesn't sway me now. Because although Jesus did speak in some parables, and though there are mysteries of God that we don't know, at the same time the Bible reveals to us the heart of God and His plan for humankind.
We aren't left to find God on our own. God revealed Himself to us through the Scriptures, through His manifestation as Jesus the Christ literally, and through our communing with the Spirit. We have the evidence of His creation (the earth and humanity both), the evidence of things such as even childbirth and life and death, the witness of other Believers, tangible confirmation with those same Scriptures, etc. So many things. He is not that aloof, that unknowable. He Loves us. The ultimate proof of that was when He sent Jesus to die for our sins.
I'm sorry, but once again I must say we're not anywhere near on the same page in this discussion, and I don't think I can learn anything else from you. I wish you the best.
I am not trying to sway you. I am not a mystic , nor am I religious. I have found a truth and I am glad to have found it. I am awake to it and I can just as easilly lose it. This feeling of oneness is fleeting and if I should desire it, it will fade. I found that Satan is desire and that God is desire without ego. I now desire nothing and therefor, I have all that I need.
May I suggest something?
Get rid of causallitty and open your mind to the possibillity that all things are divine. Even the rock is divine, it starts out as a sollid and in time becomes mud and if I am not mistaken. Did not the biblical God make us from dust? We are the same material and if the universe is from God. Then so aren't we?
This is the difficult part of being a holly man, conveying the truth about the nature of things. There are only so many words a person can use to illustrate such ideas. It is definitely a personal venture, finding God. To find God, one must be open to the possilbillity that God does not exist from without but, within everything.
Yes, you may suggest all you want. But I don't have to ingest that suggestion, nor will I. The hole in your theory is that humans are not just dust. The medium from which He created us remains dust, and yes to dust our bodies will return. But not our souls, not our spirits. Remember the things we are not and the things that God is.
This is step one. Remember that God is.
Step two. Remember that God created everything of himself.
Step three. If God is everything, remember that I am part of it.
Conclusion; We are all maifestations of the divine, when we look for the answers from the words and not the teaching, we miss the point all together. We are either divine in nature or we are not.
When I say the things I do, I try to convey that they are personal. Therefor, I am only sharing a point of view that has lead me to enlightenment. The same words I use may not be for you, but surely other people will read this and it will help them.
If the former is true, then there is no need for perfection as doing good things and being compassionate IS finding our own destiny, hence no need for gods of any kind.
The God that men know was born out of desire. We fear loss and so therefor, we created a God that made desirable things everlasting. We desire to live forever or to go to a better place. This does not make people wrong, it just is a product of desire.
If he wasn't referring to himself, though, why didn't he just say so? Did he ever say he was saying that out of example?
Everything he did and said was for our benefit, to show us how much God loves us, and to show us that God is Holy.
But I mean in this particular situation, how do you know he wasn't referring to himself?
For one thing, Jesus's body was human. It was the Spirit inside him that was divine. When people saw him, they saw a human body of course, and human attributes. Jesus wanted to make sure that he illustrated that it's only our spirits (souls) that are important.
So, although he didn't spell it out in specifics, it's obvious he was referring to mankind's frailty and temptations. The verses preceding and the verses following point to this. And the other Scriptures that tout his divinity and perfection of course uphold this.
But how do you know? Where in the Bible does it say this? ...
It doesn't have to. We are all divine creations, we just refuse to see it, for we already know the answer and we know it hurts.
I was addressing my quesstion specifically to Brenda. I know she is a Christian and believes in the Bible, so I was challenging what she said based on the Bible and if she could back it up in the Bible.
Whether or not I feel the Bible should back up one's opinion would be irrelevant...
Overall context of the Bible. It points to God being God and mankind being mankind. The book of John tells us that Jesus was God in a fleshly body. Yes the Father was still in heaven. But His Spirit was also in the body of Jesus Christ. Just like Christians have that Spirit within them. Except for one thing---Jesus was perfect, sinless even after temptation. His earthly body and feelings were subject to temptation. Yet he sinned not, not even once. He WAS GOOD. We humans, however, can never be perfect on our own accord like Jesus was. We're commanded to strive to be perfect, yes, but in the long run we know we can never be perfect. The born-again are "perfect" only in the eyes of God who loves us! And that "perfection" is judged according to Christ Himself, not on our own merit. God didn't come to earth so that mankind could become God. God came to earth so that mankind could be with God eventually, in His very presence, "perfect" creatures loving a perfect God, creatures perfected by the blood of the perfect Sacrifice.
When Jesus called Lazarus forth from the grave, Scripture tells us that he spoke words before it and after it for our benefit, not for his own, because he knew he could do anything he wanted to without even speaking a word. He was one with the Father. The perfect God stepped out of time and space and entered the world to prove His love for us imperfect people.
In John 11: 43 Jesus says after
"And I knew that thou hearest me always; but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me."
Because of the people who stood there. Everything he did was for us, that we might somehow see who and what he was, and what we are not. We are sinners in need of a Savior. He came to save our souls if we will choose him.
There are other Scripture passages that prove this too.
Then would God not send any others? Did the apostles not beat a man for healing others, just to have Jesus tell them that he also was doing God's work? How come alot of christians choose to leave that out? Is it because that simple statement could prove them wrong?
Maybe I was sent by God to point out some absolute truths that constantine didn't want everyone to know? How can anyone refute the fact that we are all divine messengers? "Even those that don't believe do my works". This to say that, maybe Jesus was just a man, a man that understood that God is the father of all things. "In the beginning there was nothing, then God moved accross the waters and said "Let there be light" and it was good".
To me, the above statement was metaphore, for men coming into consciousness. We were sooo barbaric and still very primitive, so then. Is it possible that religion was the starting point of our awakening from ignorance? Is it possible that religion came from our age of accountabillity and that we realized that there was a truth beyond ourselve's?
I am not from God, I am of God and so is every other creature and creation in this universe. I see the universe as God and because I am from it, I am of it.
Does that sum up a form of rationallity and a love of God for anyone, even though they are my own feelings and insights?
Jesus is a man and always, as in always, He wants all of man to go by His humanly example so that we may become righteous in the eyes of God. That has always been the attitude of our Lord Jesus Christ. He will never boast of His deity because if He did, we will have excuses that we can't be like Him. God himself had to be a man because only God alone is righteous. We cannot make any human an example for no man is righteous. God Himself had to come down and show us once and for all to make salvation possible.
It just saddens me when people really cannot comprehend who Jesus Christ is.
I can well comprehend that Jesus was a normal human being whom the Creator God has chosen as messenger prophet to his people like Jonah was chosen as Jesus himself mentioned.
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