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Good News! Christianity is a Truly Global Religion

  1. Cassie Smith profile image73
    Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago

    Christianity has shifted from its concentration in Europe and America to spread to Asia and Africa according to the Pew Research Center.  It used to be that 93% of Christians could be found in Europe (66.3%) and the Americas (27.1%)  Now, that 93% is split up among the four corners of the world: 37% Americas, 26% Europe, 24% Subsaharan Africa, and 13% Asia Pacific. Now whereever a Christian may travel, they can visit a church.  And those who claimed that the world is becoming secular are so wrong.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, missionaries have made sure to cleanse areas of the world so that they may build churches. Unfortunately, genocides have resulted in making sure Christians may visit those churches when they travel.

      1. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Ooo, there's that terrific grasp of history and global events rearing again!

        I do like you! lol

      2. Dave Mathews profile image60
        Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A Troubled Man: We all know that you are indeed troubled. Also we al know just how negative you can be. Now you've chosen to attack Missionaries and the good works they perform.

        You seem to get a kick out of attacking anyone and everyone simply because you feel like it, yet in your years with Hub Pages, you have chosen not to write on a single subject, only to choose to tear down others.

        Please leave us alone and stop pestering us with all of your negativity, we don't need it nor do we ask you for it.

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          lol

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks for starting off your post with personal insults, is that what Jesus would have done?



          Don't you mean the mass murders and genocides they've performed?



          Or, in the case of missionaries, the facts surrounding the atrocities they committed in the name of Jesus.



          That's odd, we are saying the same thing about Christianity, yet Christians persist regardless of the fact we don't need it nor do we ask them for it.

          Funny how that works, eh Dave? lol

          1. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Closer, you're actually saying something from your heart now. Watch out, I may start to treat you like an adult again.

            Until you prove otherwise!

        3. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That's very similar to what Jones said before moving his sheep to Guyana!  "Leave us alone!"

        4. Cassie Smith profile image73
          Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh don't worry about Troubled Man, Dave.  He has his own hate to deal with just like all the other anti-religious.  His is a very minor persecution and inconsequential.  Don't forget it's only a forum.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image94
            Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Don't worry, there's plenty of room for both of you!  lol



            http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6015147_f248.jpg

            1. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Where do you get thes great pics?

              1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Easy, just google the phrase of the image you wish to depict!  smile

          2. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Inconsequential?

            Yes, it is evident we "anti-religious" folks are forced to deal with hatred, that is true. smile

      3. S Leretseh profile image79
        S Leretsehposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There have been those - and continues today - who try to profit from Christianity. Those who do this take advantage of Christians and Christianity.  It is human greed. This element will never cease.  And there have been those who murdered in Christ's name. Those who did it, are not Christians. I look forward to the expansion of Christianity.

        Christianity has evolved over the two millennia. Christians today are the most giving, charitable , accepting and tolerant people.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, they call themselves Christians.



          No, it is Christianity that drives Christians to do bad things.



          Yes, it will as Christianity disappears into myth where it belongs.



          Yes, they were Christians, despite your denial to the contrary.



          That's too bad considering it's on the decline headed for obscurity.



          That is entirely false.

      4. heavenbound5511 profile image79
        heavenbound5511posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So you all must be calling the muslims & hindus christians since you are saying- christians did the killing- so many lies,lies,lies, You don't know about nothing- The real Christians spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ are being killed just because the message of Jesus Christ. They don't want the people hearing it, in fact most people in these countries once told the truth of Jesus Christ want what God has offered through Jesus- Salvation. If you all kept up with the persecution news you'd see the truth.

        Nigeria, Egypt, Iraq Claim Majority of Christian Martyrs in 2011
        http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/religion … -2011.html

        http://aclj.org/iran/judgment-day-will- … ian-martyr

        WORLDWIDE PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS BY MUSLIMS AND HINDUS INTENSIFIES
        http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modu … yYcjFwS21k


        Radical Muslims Kill 29 Christians This Week In Nigeria
        http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne … in-nigeria

        http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/ … -crunching

        http://www.persecution.org/2011/10/



        Let's not be of the bunch calling evil- Good & good- evil! The word of God is so clear!!

    2. 0
      Cranfordjsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      We do live in a secular world. "Americans without affiliation comprise the only religious group growing in all 50 states."

      Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/23/lo … z1j5nqAYdV

      1. Cassie Smith profile image73
        Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Your group uses a mathematical model to make projections.  Pew is an actual study using polls.  Pew is more accurate.  However, it does go to show that the secular do have places that they can live and be comfortable if the mathematical models are right.

        1. secularist10 profile image91
          secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The American Religious Identification Survey by Trinity College shows that the proportion of religiously unaffiliated (which includes atheists and agnostics) rose in every state over the last 20 years.

          http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/Amer … t_2008.pdf

          pages 18-22

          (Major groups like Protestants and Catholics often declined.)

          1. Cassie Smith profile image73
            Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you for the information.  It does support that Christianity is becoming more global instead of being confined to Europe and the Americas.

            1. secularist10 profile image91
              secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah probably, but it also indicates that as societies become wealthier and more educated, they become less religious in general. Religion thrives in backward, underdeveloped cultures (like much of Africa or South Asia today, or Europe 1000 years ago).

              1. Cassie Smith profile image73
                Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And what you just said shows what an anomaly the growth of Christianity has been in the Americas, Africa and Asia in the last ten years.  Those regions have improved and Christianity still spread.  Thank you.

                1. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Religion is wishful thinking, for there is no concept so bleak as to live in the now. We think that living in the past, is the way to define ourselve's. We do not like living in the now, because it seems lonely. It's not. It's a representation of the whole and we only see it in parts, called moments.

                2. secularist10 profile image91
                  secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Cassie:

                  I'm not sure I follow. Christianity has declined in the Americas. And while Africa and Asia have (I guess) sort of improved in recent years, it is VERY patchy. In fact, take out India and China and much of the economic growth of the third world in the last few decades disappears altogether.

                  And anyway, even a doubling of per capita income from $1000 to $2000 does not immediately produce a modernized culture. Just take a look at the plight of women across the 3rd world, where they are often treated as property or subhuman idiots.

                  It takes many generations for a society to become equitable, rational and forward-thinking. It took Europe several hundred years.

                  You're welcome.

                  1. Cassie Smith profile image73
                    Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Your reference was to the United States, the pew poll included all the Americas and it showed that Christianity has increased in the Americas.  You claim that as societies become more wealthy and educated that they become less religious.  The pew poll shows an increase in Christianity in Africa and Asia.  Those regions may not have grown to the level of wealth and education that you would appreciate but to objective measures they have grown and Christianity has flourished with it.  You wish to deny the improvements in Africa and Asia so that you can deny the growth of Christianity. Your antagonism toward a religion shouldn't make you disdain the economic achievements of those people.  Especially as those achievements were in the face of much hardship.

            2. recommend1 profile image70
              recommend1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I think the figures you quoted are just made up by someone in the first place.  In the second place the same figures can also show that christianity is severely declining in its traditional places which increases the ratio of those outside.

              It is probably a made up figure anyway as so many people register as christian when asked but never actually practice or even think about it, unlike those who claim buddhism who do normally both practice and live it.

              1. secularist10 profile image91
                secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                True. For instance, 70% of Americans call themselves Christians, but 95% of Americans have sex before marriage and only 30 to 40% attend church regularly.

      2. pedrog profile image17
        pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Those are excellent news, thanks for posting, that supports what i have wrote in my previous post.

    3. pedrog profile image17
      pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That is very true, religion spreads like fire in dry grass in the third world countries, probably because the poor education in those countries, in first world countries these kind of religions are dying, i can give my country as an example, i'm from Portugal and this is a very religious country with specific myths and miracles known world wide as the Miracle of Fátima and the three secrets given to three kids, you can read about this here:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

      The current reality as described by the church in my country is that there is a "vocation crises" because less guys want to be priests and less people are going to the church, well i call this education, people are opening there eyes, and you can see this tendency all over Europe, more education less religion.

      All people i know in my age group don't believe in religions, some may have some kind of belief in a god but i don't know anyone that attends mass or goes to the church frequently, only in weddings and funerals and some other religious celebration.

      I don't know any fundies like i see people talking about the America's bible belt, i only know that people like that exists because of Internet, that is not my reality.

      So what you are saying is true, but have in mind that the fastest growing belief system is "no religion", this is happening in the first world countries you can read about this here:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_ … g_religion

      1. Cassie Smith profile image73
        Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Your assumption that poor uneducated countries don't have religion prior to Christianity being adopted is wrong. 

        Europe is becoming less Christian, whether it's less religious is a different question.  We'll see how it turns out in 10 years.

        1. pedrog profile image17
          pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That is a good point, and very obvious, of course there were and still are other religions or belief systems in those countries, but Christianity offers salvation in a very easy way, and the priests that are teaching and spreading Christianity are well trained in doing this, have in mind that the Catholic church is doing this for many centuries, don't you think they are able to convince the poor and uneducated people of Africa or any other poor places?

          Well i have show you that the fastest growing group is "no-religion" what do you mean with "Europe is becoming less Christian, whether it's less religious is a different question."? What religion do you think is replacing Christianity?

          1. Cassie Smith profile image73
            Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Islam.  Many immigrants to Europe are from Islamic countries and don't take their religion for granted.  Islam will probably take over formerly Christian Europe.

            1. pedrog profile image17
              pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That will require emigration in an epic scale, anyway you don't have any data that can backup your claims.

              There is the example of America, Europeans took Christianity with them when they invaded the American continent, but Europe will be a lot more difficult to be invaded...

              1. Cassie Smith profile image73
                Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well is immigration from those countries stopping any time soon?  And don't those immigrants have larger families than average European families?  Of course one can make projections and they don't necessarily have to come true but if the variabilities don't change what's to say that the trend doesn't continue.

                1. pedrog profile image17
                  pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You do know that are laws in place about emigration? And you realize that will take millennium to replace 857 million people with emigrants and there is the need for these emigrants to maintain their traditions over many generations and Europeans stop reproducing at all, can you see the problems with what you are saying?

                  If you think like that you can project when the whole world will be muslin...

                  1. Cassie Smith profile image73
                    Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    It doesn't have to depend on reproduction.  Europe is becoming less Christian and Islam is a more assertive religion with more faithful followers in Europe.  When there is an intermarriage between a secular and a Muslim, you think the children aren't going to be raised Muslim?  You also forget that there are converts to Islam.

                    And I'm only talking about Europe.  Christianity elsewhere is doing very well.

      2. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'll let you in on a little secret....

        "fundies" is also a myth propogated by people who hate Christianity.

        What will "kill" Christianity is people in situations like yours. When it becomes cheap to be a Christian, Christianity becomes cheap, and even those who claim it act more like the world than followers of Jesus. That is the case here in America as I'm sure it is in Portugal. I used to talk to a Belgian kid who basically said the same thing (he is an atheist.)

        Where Christianity costs you something, that's where it flourishes. Not lack of education, but knowledge of necessity is what makes it grow.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What an absolutely dreadful view on the lessons of Christ.  Jesus didn't mean for us to suffer by following his teachings.  Caring for one another, helping those less fortunate than us and being kind and tolerant should be the easiest most natural thing in the world.

          To say that this requires some sort of "cost" is a sad sad assessment of Christians.

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Sure roll

            Jesus wasn't saying that he wanted us to suffer.  He just knew that we would suffer at the hands of unbelief or unbelievers' attacks.
            That's why he said take up our crosses and follow him.
            In case you don't recall those verses, I can give you several Biblical references.  But surely, as a professed Christian, you've already read them....

            1. autumn18 profile image68
              autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And yet history is full of attacks and slaughters against non believers by Christians.

              1. 0
                Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Is it?  Perhaps.  There's nothing I can do about that.  Especially when modern non-believers want to cry discrimination when they're presented with simple truths of the Bible, getting offended at even the mention of right and wrong and the mention of a hell to be avoided.   It is unbelievers who need to quit blaming all Christians for the tyranny of a few or the previous ones.  If one's mortal soul is at stake, I'd think they'd consider the truth on an individual basis, wouldn't you?  One can only place blame on someone else for so long, then they must examine their own consciences.

                1. autumn18 profile image68
                  autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Right and wrong is a concept that doesn't have to do anything with religion so non believers aren't offended by that. It is the hell part that is offensive. My mortal soul isn't at stake and I see the truth as it is. You're right, we can't do anything about the horrible things that happened in the past. We can learn from it though and evolve as a society.

                  1. Cassie Smith profile image73
                    Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah, I don't like it when preachers talk about hell to nonbelievers.  It wouldn't make any sense to them and I don't think it's right that they threaten using faith.  Heck, it's not right that they threaten at all.

                  2. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    IF you find Hell offensive then that means you have some understanding of what's going on.

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I've read them Brenda.  Not a Christian, a follower of Christ.  It eliminates confusion.

              I assume you know what a metaphor is?  I would imagine I could associate my cross with being blasted by "Christians" for not being bigotous and judgmental enough.  Or with those who insist that I am evil because I believe that we actually must WORK to be worthy of Christ instead of saying "I believe so everything else I do is fine".

              However, that work is a joy.  Not a "cost".  If it costs you, then maybe you should think about why.

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You are right, the work is a joy. It is constant joy to be in the Lord and doing His work. But Jesus told us to count the cost and that we would suffer for His name. Or perhaps you think that all those people in the first century gave up their homes, families and sometimes lives just because of the power of a metaphor?

                Now THAT would be sick and sadistic!

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Much to the chagrin of everyone else, but I know believers who do the Lords work could care less about everyone else and only about themselves.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    If you meant to say "I know believers who do the Lord's work who couldn't care less about everyone else," then you're right and I agree with you and I think it's sad.
                    If you meant to say, "I know all believers who do the Lord's work couldn't care less about everyone else  but only about themselves," then you have not met the right people and are incorrect. I'm sorry if that's the case.

          2. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yet, Jesus told us to count the cost. He warned us that there would be suffering. When He met Saul on the road to Damascus, He said, "I will show him how much he must suffer."

            The other lessons are important and must be carried out because our Lord commanded them. But the simple act of saying that Jesus is the only way will bring resistance, even suffering, even death.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I like my Jesus better.  Yours sounds twisted and sadistic.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                +1

                1. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You've got to be kidding. You don't even believe in Jesus. You just like to say stuff to push buttons.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I merely agreed with Melissa that your Jesus was twisted and sadistic. lol

              2. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That totally side-steps the real issue. It's not a matter of "my Jesus" versus "your Jesus." It's a matter of who Jesus really is and what He actually said. Until you come to grips with that, you're not dealing with the real question.

              3. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                BTW, the obvious question based on that response would be, "Would following your Jesus mean there's no pain? Even if you're doing it in a Muslim or Communist country, where proclaiming Jesus brings sanction, censure and even death?"

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That assumes that part of believing in Jesus is being loud and obnoxious about it.  If you believe in Jesus in an area where Christianity is outlawed, then the problem isn't believing in Jesus.  The problem there is violating the law.  If you are walking around screaming "I am breaking the law" then it is your own mouth that got you in trouble not your beliefs.

                  By the way, religion really has nothing to do with communism.  One is a type of government the other a religion.  And Muslims acknowledge the existence of Jesus.

                  But sure, go ahead and imply that you understand Jesus and I don't. Walk around your world claiming more knowledge about another's faith then they have. Then stand around looking all confused when people get angry and call you names.  It must be religious persecution.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "If you believe in Jesus in an area where Christianity is outlawed, then the problem isn't believing in Jesus.  The problem there is violating the law."
                    Well said. The Nazis thought the exact same thing. Castro loves it when people talk like that. Bravo!

                    "By the way, religion really has nothing to do with communism. " If that is so, then why do communist governments feel so threatened by Christianity? If you don't believe me, google it.

          3. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            BTW - Founders of the country? Christian!
            Signers of the Constitution? Christian!

            If you're saying otherwise, produce your sources!

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              ABSOLUTELY!

              Here's a very partial list of the Unitarians.  Just for the record, Unitarians really like Jesus, but they don't believe he was the actual son of God.  They don't really go in for the trinity thing either.  Some, but not all, are even theists... who basically believe there is probably a God, but he really doesn't care about us individually or interfere in our lives in any way.  Not all theists are Unitarians though.  I'll get the the purely theist forefathers and the rest of the Unitarians tomorrow. ( Spoiler: There is even a Jew in there too!)

              John Adams (1st vice president, second president, signer of the declaration of independence)

              Thomas Jefferson (3rd president, signer of declaration of independence)  He actually took a razor blade to the bible to eliminate all the "nonsense" like the resurrection, son of God, virgin birth etc.

              Ben Franklin  (signed both the constitution and declaration of independence)

              Ethan Allen (founder of Vermont, revolutionary war hero)

              Paul Revere (The guy with the horse)

              Thomas Paine (Common Sense)

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I asked for sources. I'd like a few.

                Did you know Jefferson spent government money to send Christian missionaries to the Indians? That his "razor blade" Bible contained all the red letters (sayings of Jesus) which would include His claims to be God and the Messiah?

                Okay, you got what, six? Out of 250? And one Jew? Horrors, whatever will I do? Oh, wait, remember that I already knew all this stuff. It doesn't change anything. And it's easy to say that the Founders were not Christian. Please prove it.

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  LMAO, so now you are actually going to try to tell me the beliefs of my own denomination.  That's precious.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Revere

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Allen

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un … versalists

                  And I told you I'd get to more of them tomorrow.

                  And you seriously are going to sit there and tell me that Thomas Jefferson was really a devout believer in the son of God thing?  Really?  I actually own a Jefferson Bible (Because it is part of my faith, go figure) I can promise you that no where in it does Jesus claim to be the son of God.  You don't really know anything about your own religion but you are going to tell me all about mine.

                  So now not only am I not a Christian, but I'm not a Unitarian either.  Poor thing this whole "world isn't what I want it to be so I'm going to deny evidence" thing must be extremely painful to live with... I wouldn't guess you would mind all that much though, since apparently your version of Jesus likes people to suffer.

                  By the way, you do realize that the three most influencial people in the development of the constitution were Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Thomas Paine right?  Oh look, there they are right up there on that list.  Oh yeah, I probably need to source common knowledge too... right?

                  http://constitution.laws.com/who-wrote-the-constitution

              2. Pcunix profile image90
                Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I love it when the gawd-luvving Christians learn that a lot of UU's are atheists.  They get really funny looks on their little faces.. 

                I know someone who is a UU Minister.  She tells a hilarious story of going on an interdenominational retreat while still going through her training.  I can't begin to do it as she does, but the gist of it was that on the first night, a born-again stood up to make a little speech about how wonderful it was that they were all there to share their common faith in Jesus's resurrection.

                My friend piped up and said "I'm sorry, we don't all believe in the divinity or resurrection of Jesus".

                The born-again gulped, assimilated that with some difficulty, and, finally understanding this bit of insanity, said "Well, then, at least we all do worship the same loving God".

                My friend had to correct him again, explaining that many UU's are atheists. 

                The poor kid probably had nightmares from that.

                One of my daughters goes to a UU church.  They had a bit of a flap a few years ago when one of the other type of UU (the hard-believing kind) wanted the minister to bring more "god" into the sermons.  Most of the congregation felt that would be a very bad idea smile

            2. amymarie_5 profile image87
              amymarie_5posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Why don't you produce your source. Can you prove the founding fathers were christian? Of course you can, your church tells you so there's your proof. Just like your bible is proof that snakes talk and homosexuals are evil. Lmao

        2. Pcunix profile image90
          Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No, it isn't.  It's a term the rest of us use to describe those who have excessive religious belief and especially those who take the Bible/Koran/Whatever literally.  It's no fiction - they exist.

          If that's you, we don't hate you.  You baffle us.  It would be easy to understand if none of you had any obvious indications of intelligence, but unfortunately for us, that's not always the case.  We don't understand how you can talk to us intelligently one minute and then babble nonsense the next. It's disorienting. 

          We will sometimes ridicule you.  The inconsistencies and obvious contradictions of almost all religious belief make it all easy targets and the fundies are the easiest of all.  But that's not hate.

          When some "fundies" do hateful things, yes, we hate that and can "hate" individuals who did those acts.  Our "hate" is diluted by understanding though - we blame your parents, your friends, your church for encouraging and fostering the hate that might have caused those acts or we just attribute it all to insanity - like that poor man who shot Senator Giffords.

          1. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I would be a little hesitant to use "we" here because I've been the direct target of, yes, hate because I'm a "fundie." Actually, I'm not, but for many the distinction is completely lost. I'm conservative, I'm Christian, ergo I'm a bigoted, hate-filled "fundie" and no epithet is too debased to heap on me.

            Then they actually get to know me! smile

            I actually understand what you mean because I became a Christian at 21, which means that I spent 21 years being not Christian. I didn't come from a religious family, let alone Christian, and I still baffle many of my relatives. All I'll say at this point is that Jesus made Himself known to me. I don't expect that to really answer any questions for you, it's just an explanation. I DO take the Bible literally, but that's a longer and more difficult process than I think many non believers can understand. It's sort of like when my wife explains having a baby to me. I know that I can have an intellectual understanding, but as a man I will never know what it's really like. Suffice for now to say that it's not babbling, even if it doesn't make sense to you.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh yes, we understand perfectly. lol

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I love it when you make my points for me! Keep it up!

    4. yolanda yvette profile image59
      yolanda yvetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The world is secular.  The church itself (as a whole) has become secular and is becoming more and more worldly, which is why some people knock Christianity --citing, 'you can't tell the secular world from the church.'  And sadly, in some instances, I agree.

      1. Cassie Smith profile image73
        Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well the church is definitely in the world.  Just because not everyone has the pious attitude or dressed somber doesn't mean that the church is more secular.  I do think some of the individual Protestant churches have lost focus but, they would be exceptions.

    5. 68
      paarsurreyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Has this Christianity anything to do with Jesus?

      Paul just exploited people in the name of Jesus Christ as Jesus had forewarned.

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        True followers of Christ are Christians.
        And Paul was a true follower of Christ.  It had everything to do with Christ.  Saul's life, heart, soul were changed by Christ appearing to him and commissioning Paul to tell people about Jesus Christ.

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I am sorry to state.

          Paul's heart or soul was not changed; he remained a deadly enemy of Jesus and his true followers; he only changed his strategy; it is for this that Jesus told of a wolf coming in the sheep's clothing; I think he was hinting towards Saul or Paul obviously.

          No intention to hurt anybody's feelings or faith; just to mention what I sincerely believe with truthful reasons.

          1. 0
            jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Reason??? that, too, truthful!! You are hilarious!!

      2. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Interesting....

        Chapter and verse for that one?

      3. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So how was Paul's theology actually different from Jesus'?

    6. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Amen and Hallelujah!

      1. Cassie Smith profile image73
        Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Say it again, sister!

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Amen and Hallelujah!  wink smile

    7. Cagsil profile image82
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Christianity is far from a truly global religion. It's more like a global infection.

      1. mischeviousme profile image59
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        One that is being cured by the antibiotics of quantum physics and many other zenlike principals.

        1. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not to mention the astringents of loud atheism and secular-leaning media!

    8. Titen-Sxull profile image94
      Titen-Sxullposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So where's the good news? The world is just shifting from one absurd superstition to another.

    9. lobobrandon profile image81
      lobobrandonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Oh this post got many replies fast smile

    10. Paul Wingert profile image80
      Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      How is Christianity is a truly global religion good news? It seems like people view religion like great sex, their heads are in the clouds.

      1. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        What does that even mean?

        If people know they can go to Heaven only through Jesus, then spreading Christianity around the globe would truly be the best news there is!

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not so much for those that don't want it. It seems as though Christians are really only concerned for their own souls and not so much those of the entire human race.

    11. Philanthropy2012 profile image89
      Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You cannot say it is "becoming more global", that would be an incorrect statement.

      Global is a complete state. There are currently Christians in every country. Ipso facto, Christianity is global. You cannot say it is becoming "more global".

      What you can say however is, poor, underdeveloped countries are having religion exploiting their ignorance and lack of education.

      You could also say that most moral and developed secular countries are losing religion.

      Take 3rd world countries out of the picture, and Christianity in particular would be in a drastic rate of decline smile

      And this is neither a hate speech nor even a biased one, this is just the natural development of morality.

  2. skyfire profile image72
    skyfireposted 4 years ago

    Good news? It's like zombie disease spreading, really bad thing for skepticism in this world.

  3. anonimuzz profile image84
    anonimuzzposted 4 years ago

    It's very good news that we have freedom to choose our religion and practice it.

    That said, I'm not Christian myself, so I'm not happy. Not mad either, though. Just indifferent.

    1. Cassie Smith profile image73
      Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I appreciate what you said that we have the freedom to choose and practice our religion or not have one at all.

  4. Randy Godwin profile image94
    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago

    The name for the research group is certainly apt, if nothing else!

  5. 0
    Muldaniaposted 4 years ago

    Christianity is disappearing in parts of Europe, but the numbers greatly increasing in Africa.  Over the past few years African missionaries have been coming to the UK and have been making some progress in parts of the country.

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol

  6. pisean282311 profile image57
    pisean282311posted 4 years ago

    got that but where is good news in this?...good news for vatican u meant?

  7. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    Good, now that that's over...

    The fact that Christianity is spreading into third world countries is hardly cause to celebrate.  It really does mean the destruction of micro-cultures.  These micro-cultures have been invaluable in contributing knowledge that has led to quite a few medical breakthroughs as well as folklore and knowledge of history.  When Christianity sweeps into these villages the culture is completely destroyed... usually without records and those "missionaries" generally dismiss anything the tribe says as superstitious or ignorant.

    Theologically, its kinda a pissy thing to do as well.  Most "Christian" scholars will tell you that if a person is never exposed to the word of God then there is no chance of going to hell, after all God is a kind loving fair God right?  So basically, these tribes had no chance of all of eternal damnation... until the Christians showed up.

    1. Paul Wingert profile image80
      Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Nothing like spreading the "I like lobster, so you must like lobster too" mentality.

      1. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But it's not quite like that...

        It's more of the "The flood is coming and I can show you how to save yourself" mentality.

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          More like "save others so you can save yourself method". Pure egotism at it's worst.

          1. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No, it's not. That doesn't even make sense.

            If you save others, that's a loving thing to do. Even if it's done out of egotism it still saves others. But the salvation doesn't come from me, it never has and never will. It comes from Jesus. As long as anyone is looking at me (and I'm talking to you Troubled) then you either accidentally or on purpose have missed the point and lost the argument.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Salvation is gobbledegook.

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                If it was gobbledegook, then you'd understand it because you rarely make sense when you talk.

  8. Pcunix profile image90
    Pcunixposted 4 years ago

    Somebody sure as heck needs to explain how this is "Good news".

    This is sad news, if true.  It could mean that ignorance is spreading rather than withering away as it should be.

    Don't get me wrong:  I'm not against religion.  If you need it, you need it and I'm fine with that.  I'll stand to protect your right to believe it and to poison your children with the same disease.

    However, I would hope that less and less people do find this necessary and that more and more realize that it's complete nonsense that has no place in the modern world.  I know we are a long way from that, but my impression was that religion was decreasing and I saw that as hopeful.

    I hope that this does not mean that secularism is diminishing.  I hope that it only means that one bit of foolishness is replacing another.

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The Good News is always this----that God sent His Son in the flesh to die for the sins of mankind.  We can meander the discussion off onto a thousand different tangents, but indeed that is the jist of Christianity.

      1. mischeviousme profile image59
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You act as if Christ is the end all of the conlusion. That way of thinking may not apply to everyone and is the result of clinging to something that may or may not exist. Hence, it is an illusion which to you may be very true. I cannot apply my beliefs to anything, for they simply do not matter. That is what makes it my belief, the fact that they are not your's.

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If they don't matter, then why are you vocalizing them?
          Beliefs do matter.
          And yes, Christ is the end conclusion!
          Your meanderings remind me of the original thinking of the preacher in the book of Ecclesiastes.  He (Solomon, some say) spoke of vanity and questioned man's purpose, etc., but in the end we note that he arrived at a wise and sane conclusion.  He spoke about human frailty and confusion.  In the end he realized mankind cannot depend on his own thoughts, even, but that he must depend upon the Creator for all enlightenment. He even states that conclusion---

          "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:  Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
          For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."
          (Ecclesiastes 12: 13, 14).

          Mankind may go off onto many tangents and into many religions, but in Truth, if we really seek wisdom, we will revert back to the Truths contained in the Bible.  Truths we've overlooked in the attempts to find different ways to God.

          1. mischeviousme profile image59
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I have moved beyond the bible. For me it was but a stepping stone to learning. I have accepted the truth that "I" truly do not exist, not in the sense of self, more in the sense of how "I" am contained within my "Self". The bible is but a bedtime story in this as it is.

            1. Paul Wingert profile image80
              Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I have one bible in my household. The only reason why it's not in the trash is because it's a family heirloom.

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Good! Hopefully one day you'll actually read it!

      2. Pcunix profile image90
        Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, I know the gist of Christianity and I know that y'all refer to that as "Good News".

        It's not "Good News" for humanity, though.

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I suppose you prefer the "Bad News" the Adversary brings?

        2. pisean282311 profile image57
          pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          @pcunix true...good news for humanity is not backing some 2000 year ago event but using brains to better the world....this is bad news...more religion , more slavery towards unseen,unheard,unknown being ....lesser the religion , more usage of time,energy,resource towards betterment of the world...

        3. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          On the contrary, it's the best news!

          The fact is that everybody is going to hell. Everybody. So the only way to  not go there is for Jesus to die to take away our sins and for us to accept Him.

          You don't have to. Contrary to what many non-believers seem to want to believe, there's no danger of a Christian theocracy, there's no push for one. But the fact of Jesus' atoning death is the very best news ever!

          1. mischeviousme profile image59
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hells a pretty happening place as far as I know, because I don't know anything about it.

          2. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            WOW!

            It's absolutely mind boggling that this type of twisted and sadistic nightmare is not only being propagated to the masses, indoctrinated into the minds of children, but is being lobbied to demand acknowledgement and respect by the highest courts in the land.

            I retire to bedlam.

      3. 0
        jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Such a foolish, impotent fellow is still called god?
        And sending somebody to be killed is Good news? Pathetic!

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Don't worry too much, what the fundies consider Christianity is a far cry away from what the rest of the population (the majority) considers Christianity.  By their definition only about 1/3 of Christians are Christians. The Christianity that is spreading to other cultures is not the "born again or burn forever, God is a psychopath" kinda Christianity.

      It should also be noted that if Christianity of that sort really were the right choice no one would need to spread the word.  Within a few generations they will be gone.  Their numbers are dwindling each year.

      1. Pcunix profile image90
        Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You say potato, they say bigger potato.  Same babble to me, sorry.

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          My God's better than your's and the argument goes round and round, with no logical conclusion.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Not arguing that, I'm not sure I believe in a God, therefore arguing for his existence would be kinda silly.  I will argue that he MIGHT or MIGHT NOT exist and I'm all for everyone believing what they will about him... as long as they don't expect the world to agree.

            1. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And that is a form of enlightenment, not expecting agreement. It is what it is and acceptance gets us closer to letting go of the question all together. One can believe all they want, but knowing is another story all together. We argue because we believe we know something that we simply do not.

        2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's Okay PC.  You are entitled to your beliefs... although it's kinda the difference between a small cancerous mole and a full-fledged malignant brain tumor.

          1. Pcunix profile image90
            Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I agree that is a difference.  If you have to be religious, I'll take "follower of Christ" over Bible thumper any day.

            I have to go write a hub about this.  What I have to say is too long for here.

  9. Kyle Payne profile image60
    Kyle Payneposted 4 years ago

    Christianity has always much sway on history.

  10. hawkdad73 profile image72
    hawkdad73posted 4 years ago

    So, Christianity is like the McDonald's of religion.

  11. Cassie Smith profile image73
    Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago

    I hope all Christians will note that the anti-religious will attribute Jared Loughner as a Christian when actually his facebook showed he was a commie and an Obama supporter before it was pulled down.  But they will grasp at anything.  I hope whenever any Christian does see this kind of maliciousness, which unfortunately is often, that it be addressed and corrected.

    1. Pcunix profile image90
      Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No, Cassie, I know not and care not what that poor things religious beliefs are.

      I was simply using it as an example of hateful acts not arousing hate for the person committing them.

      Your  desire to find hate works well for you, doesn't it?

      1. Cassie Smith profile image73
        Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        By your previous posts, I know that you are a narrow minded "liberal" and will not spend time to dissuade you from from your much held beliefs about hate.  I will definitely leave that talk to you.

        1. Pcunix profile image90
          Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Amazing that you juxtapose "narrow minded" and "liberal".

          George Orwell had a word for that..

    2. Randy Godwin profile image94
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, and Jim Jones was what?   lol

      1. Cassie Smith profile image73
        Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A communist. 

        But of course a narrow minded liberal wouldn't know that.

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          A psychotic christian that founded a religion of his own and was made crazy by it.

          1. Cassie Smith profile image73
            Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What you said is ignorant.  Please do some research.

            Now that I've addressed ignorance, I'm just going to let it go.  Again, I will not dissuade narrow minded liberals from their beliefs.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              lol Yes, making up stuff as you go along most certainly addressed ignorance with the same zealotry and magnitude it denied the facts of law.

              A truly stunning thread of dishonesty.

            2. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not trying to disuade anyone. I just say it like I see it. They are personal vallues and your's, are no more important as anyone else's, on a personal level.

        2. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Where in the heck to do you get your misinformation from?  And who was he always praying to with his crowd of "believers"?  Pretty sure it was to a dude named Jesus.  What part of the Bible Belt are you from?  lol

          1. Cassie Smith profile image73
            Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It's not my job to school your ignorance so I'm not making any further effort.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I am delighted at your inability to school anyone at all since your attempts at self-eduction have obviously fallen way short of success.  Jim Jones led another of the multitude of christian based cults, one of which you are apparently a member, not of his cult of course, as they are all with Jr. now, I suppose. But the same old dude and his boy are still worshiped by you and your ilk.  But perhaps YOUR god is a different deity.  lol

          2. mischeviousme profile image59
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            A part that has people that don't watch the news, or that were not around when it happened.

      2. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Jim Jones started out as a Christian preacher but by the time he led everyone on grape kool-aid binge he was much more of a communist.

        Don't you ever watch PBS?

  12. Randy Godwin profile image94
    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago

    Being threatened with spending eternity with such believers in heaven is enough for me to run like heck the other way!  tongue

    1. mischeviousme profile image59
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hell for the company, heaven for the scenary and I shall be found narry in between.

  13. Randy Godwin profile image94
    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago

    I found out long ago that preachers will shy away from any sermon topic which may upset their flock too much.  Try asking one of them why god supposedly impregnated a 13 year old already betrothed virgin without her permission and without the knowledge of her fiancee.  And then ask him if this is godlike behavior.  Then, get ready for some really poor excuses or the immediate departure of the messenger from god!  lol

  14. healthyfoods27 profile image61
    healthyfoods27posted 4 years ago

    FOR me..nowadays...CHRISTIANITY or being a Christian is very necessary..it plays a vital role
    in shaping the society for good and making a difference by following what God wants us to do.thank you.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image94
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Funny, that's the same reasons used by christians to enslave Africans and Native Americans which (again purely coincidentally) made them wealthy and allowed them to lead a relatively labor free life.  But perhaps you believe this "shaping of society" was for the good of the slaves too!  There's probably enough room for one more in the previous cartoon if you wish!  :LOL:

      And by the way, you should only publish original content here.  It appears your only hub was copied from blogger.

      1. healthyfoods27 profile image61
        healthyfoods27posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        hi randy godwin!

        actually im the owner of that blog..i just expand it here....:-)

        and with respect to your reply...i believe that those christians that u mention the one who enslave africans and native americans actually not christian in work and in deeds...because if u are truly christian you will not hurt your fellow men and as a christian you know how to be humble and love your fellow men whatever race he or she belongs..thank you.

        1. recommend1 profile image70
          recommend1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Actually - copying your own stuff is still duplicate content and 'copying', so dump the hub or dump the blog - or rewrite each one differently.  There are word spinner s for this job but they often leave the text meaningless and uninteresting - maybe you have used one already ?

        2. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Perhaps.  But people's morals tend to change when money is involved, HF!  Even Thomas Jefferson, who attempted to write legislation for the future release of slaves, didn't free his own while others in his state did so out of a sense of morality and justice.

          He continued to buy and sell slaves but kept this out of the public eye and newspapers where all slave sales were listed at the time.  And of course, he sired several children by his black slave Sally as has been well documented.  People tend to justify immorality when it puts money in their pockets. (see Dubya and Haliburton)

          And I did know you had your hub already posted on Blogger but felt it was necessary to inform you of the rules here to keep you from running afoul of the Hubpolice!  lol

          1. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "(see Dubya and Haliburton)" - LOL! But don't forget the Clintons and Whitewater!

            My point is not that Shrub is clean and Bill is not, they're both dirty in something somewhere. My point is that you have to look at all sides.

            1. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              A box has four sides and  so then for corners and four creases, with much space in between.

            2. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              As far as I know Clinton never started a war with the wrong country and hired his vice president's old company to subcontract the expenses for it.  But feel free to refresh my memory if I'm mistaken. smile

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                If that is your one and only criterion for citing presidential malfeasance then Nixonians can breath easy, indeed! wink

                1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  My memory is not refreshed.  The comparison, please!  roll

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Watergate.

                    And the point is that Shrub is hardly the only one guilty.

    2. Cassie Smith profile image73
      Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Congratulations on your first post and welcome to Hubpages!

  15. healthyfoods27 profile image61
    healthyfoods27posted 4 years ago

    i bet your right....thanks.

    1. mischeviousme profile image59
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If one must say something twice, it should be spoken differently. If we avoid useless language, what we say means that much more. It must be original or it means nothing.

  16. Mark Johann profile image60
    Mark Johannposted 4 years ago

    Yes. I believe this is true. The message of Christ has been almost true when He said that the word of GOd will spread though out every corners of the earth.

  17. Cagsil profile image82
    Cagsilposted 4 years ago

    And this discussion actually grew legs? WOW! lol

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Ok, at the risk of exposing my ignorance... What does "grew legs" mean?... I mean relative to the conversation.  My best friend uses the phrase every once in a while but he's one of you all New England Yankees as well.

      1. mischeviousme profile image59
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Being part of anything is a turn off to alot of people. Mainly because they are part of something and your idea doesn't fit in with what they see as true. That's the world we live on and it is a reality we cannot share peacefully. It seems only a few can fully accept everyone as they are and not for what they believe. sad

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You know I love ya hon.  And I am okay with your philosophy and deep thoughts because I know quite a few Buddhists that I converse with regularly.  However enlightened your last statement was, however, it in no way answered what the phrase "grow legs" means in this context.

      2. Cagsil profile image82
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "Grew legs" means it expanded and has continued to plunder the forums. lol It is now approaching 200 posts and should have died a miserable death. lol

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you hon, I'll drop you off cookies next time I am running through Mass.

          As far as should have died, you are probably right.  I'm bored though and can no longer smoke cigarettes to calm my nerves so I'm relegated to arguing on an internet forum to vent frustrations.  I've written about parasites all day so comfort eating is also out of the question.

          1. Cagsil profile image82
            Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hey Melissa, try to make the cookies "chocolate chip". wink lol

            1. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              lol

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sure thing.

              1. Cagsil profile image82
                Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Cool! smile

                1. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I love the sense of humor, keep it up. Laughter is good for the whatever "it" is. smile

            3. Pcunix profile image90
              Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, and if they are chocolate chip, don't drop 'em all off at Cags.  I'm only another couple hours from where he is and I love chocolate chip cookies..

        2. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          This a religious forum, you don't have to like it for there are plenty of others to be part of. If you are not religious or spiritual, why does it matter?

          1. Cagsil profile image82
            Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hey Mischeviousme, did I say whether or not I liked it or dislike it? WOW! Boy do you assume too much.
            And you are who exactly to be questioning me about what I do? Oh, yeah that's right, you're the one running around the forums saying everything in life is an illusion. So, I guess I am a figment of your imagination. If so, I suggest you wake up and come back to reality. Oh yeah, you think reality is just an illusion. Oh never mind...go sit in a corner and be a good little HubPages troll.

  18. 61
    WhoBeYouBeposted 4 years ago

    Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence.


    Charles Carroll

    Maryland

    Catholic



    Samuel Huntington

    Connecticut

    Congregationalist



    Roger Sherman

    Connecticut

    Congregationalist



    William Williams

    Connecticut

    Congregationalist



    Oliver Wolcott

    Connecticut

    Congregationalist



    Lyman Hall

    Georgia

    Congregationalist



    Samuel Adams

    Massachusetts

    Congregationalist



    John Hancock

    Massachusetts

    Congregationalist



    Josiah Bartlett

    New Hampshire

    Congregationalist



    William Whipple

    New Hampshire

    Congregationalist



    William Ellery

    Rhode Island

    Congregationalist



    John Adams

    Massachusetts

    Congregationalist; Unitarian



    Robert Treat Paine

    Massachusetts

    Congregationalist; Unitarian



    George Walton

    Georgia

    Episcopalian



    John Penn

    North Carolina

    Episcopalian



    George Ross

    Pennsylvania

    Episcopalian



    Thomas Heyward Jr.

    South Carolina

    Episcopalian



    Thomas Lynch Jr.

    South Carolina

    Episcopalian



    Arthur Middleton

    South Carolina

    Episcopalian



    Edward Rutledge

    South Carolina

    Episcopalian



    Francis Lightfoot Lee

    Virginia

    Episcopalian



    Richard Henry Lee

    Virginia

    Episcopalian



    George Read

    Delaware

    Episcopalian



    Caesar Rodney

    Delaware

    Episcopalian



    Samuel Chase

    Maryland

    Episcopalian



    William Paca

    Maryland

    Episcopalian



    Thomas Stone

    Maryland

    Episcopalian



    Elbridge Gerry

    Massachusetts

    Episcopalian



    Francis Hopkinson

    New Jersey

    Episcopalian



    Francis Lewis

    New York

    Episcopalian



    Lewis Morris

    New York

    Episcopalian



    William Hooper

    North Carolina

    Episcopalian



    Robert Morris

    Pennsylvania

    Episcopalian



    John Morton

    Pennsylvania

    Episcopalian



    Stephen Hopkins

    Rhode Island

    Episcopalian



    Carter Braxton

    Virginia

    Episcopalian



    Benjamin Harrison

    Virginia

    Episcopalian



    Thomas Nelson Jr.

    Virginia

    Episcopalian



    George Wythe

    Virginia

    Episcopalian



    Thomas Jefferson

    Virginia

    Episcopalian (Deist)



    Benjamin Franklin

    Pennsylvania

    Episcopalian (Deist)



    Button Gwinnett

    Georgia

    Episcopalian; Congregationalist



    James Wilson

    Pennsylvania

    Episcopalian; Presbyterian



    Joseph Hewes

    North Carolina

    Quaker, Episcopalian



    George Clymer

    Pennsylvania

    Quaker, Episcopalian



    Thomas McKean

    Delaware

    Presbyterian



    Matthew Thornton

    New Hampshire

    Presbyterian



    Abraham Clark

    New Jersey

    Presbyterian



    John Hart

    New Jersey

    Presbyterian



    Richard Stockton

    New Jersey

    Presbyterian



    John Witherspoon

    New Jersey

    Presbyterian



    William Floyd

    New York

    Presbyterian



    Philip Livingston

    New York

    Presbyterian



    James Smith

    Pennsylvania

    Presbyterian



    George Taylor

    Pennsylvania

    Presbyterian



    Benjamin Rush

    Pennsylvania

    Presbyterian


    The signers of the Declaration of Independence were a profoundly intelligent, religious and ethically-minded group. Four of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were current or former full-time preachers, and many more were the sons of clergymen. Other professions held by signers include lawyers, merchants, doctors and educators. These individuals, too, were for the most part active churchgoers and many contributed significantly to their churches both with contributions as well as their service as lay leaders. The signers were members of religious denominations at a rate that was significantly higher than average for the American Colonies during the late 1700s.

    From: B. J. Lossing, Signers of the Declaration of Independence, George F. Cooledge & Brother: New York (1848) [reprinted in Lives of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence, WallBuilder Press: Aledo, Texas (1995)], pages 7-12

    yes the founding fathers were Religious men, Christians and Deists.

  19. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    I'll go with largely Christians OR Deists. (It's almost impossible to be both) Although "Founding Fathers" encompasses more than the Declaration of Independence.  Thomas Paine, for example, signed neither the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.  He did have an extraordinary amount of influence in the writing of the Constitution (although he wasn't a framer).  There is a remote chance he was Deist, but he was definitely not a Christian or even sympathetic to Christianity. 

    Also, the term Catholic is largely misleading.  But I'll agree that those labeled "Catholic" were Christians (even if the born-agains largely don't claim Catholics as Christians) Most of the "Catholics" were actually Angelicans... They were more represented among the "founding fathers" than your list of signers of the declaration of independence would indicate.

    Your list mislabels Franklin and Jefferson.

    And the term Congregationalist is also very misleading or rather extremely unspecific.  At the time of the drafting of the Constitution one of the most influential ministers of the Congregational Church was Jonathan Mayhew ( The no taxation without representation guy).  Mayhew was never "Officially" Unitarian but his ideas were the core of the Unitarian faith.  He taught that Christ was separate and subordinate to God and that salvation can only be obtained through good character. Only 4 of the original Congregational Churches that would have served the founding fathers DID NOT convert to Unitarian Churches. 

    And a very high number of Quakers also hold duel religious affiliations as Quakers and Unitarians.

    I could also go on about the actual probable religious affiliations of the others as revealed by church attendance, communion, and religious language if you like.

  20. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    The point of all this being

    1. The United States was never meant to be a "Christian" (or really any other religion) Country. This group of individuals would roll over in their graves to hear it called such.

    2.  Stop calling the founding fathers Christian if you refuse to acknowledge non-trinitarian religions as Christian.  These guys may have formed YOUR country but they helped establish MY religion in America.  You can't have it both ways.

    1. 61
      WhoBeYouBeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There are many christians lost in doctrine of false beliefs... but I do not begrudge them their claim to Christianity.

      And my list is perfectly accurate.

      I can supply you with church attendance, communion, etc... also

      Our founders were God fearing men for the most part. The sucualr left has spent a hundred years trying to dissuade the people of that truth.

      And I see they have done a good job of it to date.

      Paine is the odd-ball out, true, but he did possess some religious inclination, as many did in that day.

      And what do you know about my beliefs in the trinity and those who hold that belief? I do not believe in the trinity, but I have never said they are not Christians. I have said they are lost in false doctrine... as they are.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image94
        Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "There are many christians lost in doctrine of false beliefs... but I do not begrudge them their claim to Christianity."

        I thought you said the Mormons weren't real christians?  Or was that someone else?

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          *Grins* well Mormons aren't trinitarians.  So, at the least they are lost in false doctrine.  Probably shouldn't vote one of the heathens into office ever then.  Good thing that the nice Christian boy will probably keep the presidency for another term.

          1. 61
            WhoBeYouBeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Have you ever read the doctrine of Mormonism?

            I bet you have not.

            Do you believe God came here and had sex, physical sex, with mary?

            Do you believe you will be a God and have your own universe to rule?

            Mormons do.

            And no I do not want one int he office... but I will have to vote for him anyways.

            A friend of mine recently posted a lil note on Mormonism which points to some very interesting things.

            -"How does an individual’s profession of faith in Mormonism affect their daily decisions and what are the implications of having a Mormon in any political office, especially that of Commander in Chief? My concerns are in the areas of loyalties, LDS prophecies, decision making, and preferential treatment.



            What this means in Mormon-speak: God the Father was once a human man who earned his right to become a god through good works and adherence to the Mormon gospel on another planet. He now has a glorified body of flesh and bone and resides with his many wives on a planet "nigh unto Kolob" (a star somewhere in the galaxy) fathering spirit children that will someday be born as mortal humans on this or another earth.



            Jesus of Mormonism is our older spirit brother and spirit brother of Lucifer. He volunteered to pay for our sins if we keep all the commandments of the Mormon gospel. According to several LDS prophets and apostles, Jesus was conceived through sexual relations between God the Father and Mary, who is not only one of his spirit daughters, but also one of his eternal wives.



            The Holy Ghost is the third personage in the Godhead in Mormonism. He has a body of spirit, but cannot be in more than one place at a time, although his influence may be felt everywhere. The Father is a god; Jesus is a god; and the Holy Ghost is a god. While they are the only gods for the particular part of the galaxy we live in, there are many other gods ruling other solar systems and galaxies.



            What is a “firm testimony of the restored gospel?” It is an unwavering belief that the Mormon Church is the only organization on earth through which mankind can be saved. It is the staunch belief that Mormonism alone offers the authorized ordinances (rites and rituals) necessary for reconciliation between God and man. It is the resolute conviction that—as John Taylor, third President of the Church, wrote, "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it" (Doctrine &Covenants 135:3)."-

            And there is much more...

            http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= … 7395089443

            1. Pcunix profile image90
              Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ow, wow, crazy religious beliefs!  You SO right - walking on water, resurrection and world wide floods are so logical and obviously true, but that Mormon stuff is just something else!  Ayup.  I can certainly see where you are coming from..

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Not a Mormon... don't care.  If I believed in what the mormon religion said I would be a Mormon.  You, however, seem pretty irate about it.  Seeing other's religion as a personal insult is also a bit arrogant, as it assumes that they are specifically doing it to piss you off.  They very well might be the correct religion.  You, personally, better hope they aren't.  You were just kinda rude to their God after all.

              1. Pcunix profile image90
                Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You AREN'T all trying to piss me off?

                Are you sure about that?

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well YOU of course we are trying to piss off.  That didn't start until a couple years ago when the King of Christianity (Rush Limbaugh) wrote a memo from his secret bunker.  I get the feeling there is something about you that pisses him off.

                  1. Pcunix profile image90
                    Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Ahh, Rush.  Gawd luv him!

                    I used to listen to him on AM radio. It helped me feel more tolerant toward my slightly less idiotic conservative friends.  They seemed almost reasonable after listening to Rush and the Dittoheads.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image94
            Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            They claim to be christians, like others here.  How do you tell them apart? smile

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well, I used to believe that Christians were believers in Christ.  I was told in no uncertain terms, however, that the only true Christians were those that thought exactly like the other Christians.  Which, I guess, eliminates almost all the Christians except for the Born-Again Fundies... who seem to have some sort of Borg-like hive-collective thought process.

              Since I like to ask questions and interpret my own thoughts, I am not allowed in the Club.  That's absolutely fine with me.  I have dubbed myself "follower of Christ" to eliminate any confusion.  I'm not exactly sure who they follow.  The hive queen maybe?  Nice to know that Christ has been replaced by Ann Coulter.

      2. Pcunix profile image90
        Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        People who think a creator wound up the universe and hasn't been back since are hardly "god fearing" smile

        1. 61
          WhoBeYouBeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Why would you thing God is not here?

          God is always among us.

          1. Pcunix profile image90
            Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            There are no gods, but never mind that.

            Many of the bright folks who built that Constitution thingy were people who believe in a creator god that has no on-going interest in the world or anything else.  They were just as confused as you are, but a person with such beliefs certainly has nothing to "fear".

            Others believed in an "all-loving" god.  Those folks have nothing to "fear" either.

            1. 61
              WhoBeYouBeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You atheists always crack me up.

              One day you will seek God, probrably in the worst moment of your life, and I hope he forgives and helps you.

              have a nice day.

              And a couple of the founders were Deists, a couple.

              1. autumn18 profile image68
                autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That won't happen and I don't need forgiveness from anyone else other than any humans I've wronged and maybe myself. You have a nice day as well. smile

                1. 61
                  WhoBeYouBeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I wasn't talking to you... but that is okay. I would imagine you lumped yourself in with the generalized "you atheists" remark. It was to PC, but I hope He helps you also when you need it.

                  You have a nice day, also.

                  1. autumn18 profile image68
                    autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah I was thinking that was directed towards atheists. I understand now. I hear stuff like that a lot. We're lost and will find the truth someday etc. It doesn't offend me, I know it's a common thought of some.

              2. Pcunix profile image90
                Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, the old "no atheists in foxholes" nonsense?

                I've been there.  I've been very close to death several times in my life and never had any thoughts of gods.  I thought about my family and other folks who might miss me, but no "seeking" of any imaginary beings.

              3. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                *pats head* If believing that makes you feel better dear.

          2. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol

            The question has and always will be why would you believe God IS here?

            Because the Bible told you so?

            1. Pcunix profile image90
              Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And his/her parents, of course.  Always trust the 'rents!

    2. Chris Neal profile image84
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Ignoring for a moment the argument about whether the majority of Founding Fathers were Trinitarian or not...

      The Founding Fathers did intend this country to be one where people could worship God as they chose. So often today, saying that American "isn't and never was a Christian country" is code for "religious faith has no place in the public square."

      I don't know if you believe that, but if you do then please show me where any of the Founding Fathers believed the same.

  21. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    Then your completely accurate list disagrees with my equally perfectly accurate source.  It could be because it was written in 1848 from, I assume, records from the time.  It had to acknowledge Adams as a Unitarian, you know since he formed a Unitarian church.  But they added the Unitarian AFTER the fact, since "Unitarian" was not an official religious affiliation in America at the time of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Like congregationalism, it was religious movement. 

    Please do provide whatever information you have.

    And I neither know nor care what your religious affiliation is.  My comments in this thread were not directed at you until you posted your incorrect list.  Unless I am arguing with a sock puppet of the OP or (later) Chris Neal.  Which I guess is possible.  There is a history of discussion that you are ignorant of.  But now that we are on the topic, post sources that my doctrine is false.  I'll accept a stone tablet etched by lightning or an actual visit from either God or Jesus.  Don't tell me what a council or an aging apostle said.

    1. 61
      WhoBeYouBeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If you are speaking in regards to the trinity, read your bible, and see if you find it in there.

      It really is simple as that. No disrespect intended, Melissa

      It was a council which told you all that the trinity existed to begin with?

      So I do not understand how you say I should NOT show you a council.

      I have not used any councils, other than to show where it came from. It was a council at Nicea who instituted the trinity. Of which every Catholic Scholar will tell you that it is not found in the Gospel or Old testament, and that the authority for it comes only, and solely from the church, and not the bible.

      That should tell you something on its own.

      I believe I gave you this link before? (the first one) I gave to someone anyways. But if you read this lil work on it, the first link, I think you would have a completely different view of the trinity. it is very thurough and thought prevoking in it presentation, and they put it in clearer more concise terms that I am able to.

      If you choose not to read it... then I cannot help you. This work touches on every laast verse used to support it, on the history of it, and on the Catholic Scholars views on it.

      I would also ask you to google Catholic Scholars as regards the trinity and the authority supporting it, as I said it is the church, not God nor Christ, who developed the trinity.

      So I would ask with all due respect that you at lease review the materials.

      http://dawnchristadelphians.net/books/trin/trinind.htm

      http://www.antipas.org/books/trinity/trinity1.html

      And I am not Chris, nor the OP.

      PS; I am not trying to argue, Melissa. But the best course I can give you is to read this info and decide for yourself. Long held beliefs are very hard to let go of or see past. but I think if you read with an open mind, you will see.

      And here is a list as to the founders.

      http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_F … igion.html

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        For politeness I read your links.

        Not to be rude, but they are nothing I haven't seen before. 

        Please understand that I have read the Bible.  Quite a bit.  I just don't get out of it what you do.  How you interpret it is not how I interpret it.  I am willing to admit that I may be wrong, but in turn I also assume that you could be wrong as well.  And then there is the very real possibility that both of us are.  As such, I find your claims to be just a bit judgmental and also arrogant.  Sorry, but implying that you are correct and I am not is arrogant, especially since neither of us has any proof and couldn't possibly produce proof.

        As far as using verses to support your argument, that doesn't really work since I don't take the bible literally.  I believe it is an inherently flawed document that was heavily influenced purposely by politics and translated and changed so many times that it is unreliable.  Furthermore, it is incomplete by exclusion of books and written by humans in the first place.  Given that viewpoint, quoting verses at me is as effective as quoting Alice in Wonderland.

        Thirdly, you assume that I was indoctrinated into my religion.  I wasn't.  I chose unitarinism later in my life.  UU's aren't really taught about specific points of religion as there is no official creed or dogma.  There are atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Wiccans etc. that are all welcomed.  Their viewpoints are all equally valid and each person is encouraged to find their own path. My beliefs were formed by intense research and self-evaluation.  My beliefs change in little ways every day with each conversation I have and each history, science, religion or philosophy text I read. I evolve as a person with each new bit of information I acquire.

        That being said, one of the guiding principles of my faith and most other UU's is that no one is right and no one is wrong.  It has always been so.  So surely that gives an indication of what those Unitarians who were largely responsible for the content of the Constitution (Jefferson, Adams, Paine) felt about a "Christian" country and might shed light on exactly what was intended by separation of church and state.

        1. 61
          WhoBeYouBeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I assumed nothing.

          I did not say you were wrong. And I agree we all, or both, could be wrong in the end.

          And though I did not say you were wrong... I do not believe you are right, either.

          And God, is right.

          He is very clear in his Bible as to what he expects and wants you do and not do. So that is not so cut and dry as allow everyone thier own interpretation and acceptance of anything anyone wants to do.

          God is very plain as to what he accepts and does not accept... and no one has the right to compromise and synchritize his faith. Israel and judah did that... and look where it got them.

          And there is no, "Seperation of Church and State", in the Constitution, Melissa. That is a single line in a letter by Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist.

          The intent was not to allow them to mingle, or rule one another, not to seperate them wholey.

          PS; if you have read the bible and know of the sources and info, the Catholic Scholars, etc... then you are well aware that the trinity is not in the Bible, and that it is a construct of Man.

          You are well aware that you are following doctrines and traditions of Men, and not God.

          You are well aware that the catholics mis-interpreted verses and added to one verse in particular, in john, to support thier claims. The verse that says Thomas said... "you are my Lord, My God." That last "My God"... is not in the original Greek transcripts.

          But...

          Okay. As long as you are aware of all that.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you again for giving me information I already know.  Separation of Church and State is easier that quoting the information.

            As for the rest, once again interpretation.  There is no clear evidence or there would only be one religion and one denomination.

            As for your opinion on the purpose of SoCaS that is also just your opinion. 

            As a matter of fact, when everyone could understand that pretty much everything they believe in both politically and religiously is a matter of opinion then there wouldn't be any more hostilities.

            And yes you could bring up supporting information for your opinion as could I.  As could almost everyone else.  Once again, if there was definitive proof one way or another there wouldn't be any disagreement.

        2. Pcunix profile image90
          Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't buy the "you're ok, I'm ok" stuff, but I will say this: if you want to find the smartest people in your community, the UU church is a great place to start.  I'm not saying you won't find smart people elsewhere, but you'll definitely find a great big pile of 'em there.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Judging from the members of my fellowship (humbly excluding myself of course), I agree.  I would guess the average is high-average to gifted I.Q.  It might not be a fair representation of the faith in general though, we have a higher than average number of college professors in the fellowship.  (We are a stone's throw away from 2 major universities and 2 smaller state colleges)

            1. Pcunix profile image90
              Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well, the tolerance and acceptance, including allowing (more than "allowing" even) atheists tends to attract the brighter folks.  Unless they are nasty curmudgeons like me, of course.  I can't get along with anyone except my wife and kids and one of my sisters..  and even they think I'm off a bit.

  22. 68
    paarsurreyposted 4 years ago

    Good News! Christianity is a Truly Global Religion

    This is a sign of Jesus coming again to refute the religion invented in his name; this is why it is called Anti-Christ; not belonging to the teachings of Jesus.

  23. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    What about your high horse? Do you come down off it, or just ride 'em cowboy?smile

  24. kirstenblog profile image76
    kirstenblogposted 4 years ago

    Is this why Nigeria has so many millionaire preachers scamming the impoverished?

    http://www.vice.com/read/nigeria-millio … or-fireman

    1. Chris Neal profile image84
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Nigeria is hardly alone, there. Look at the U.S.! It's a sad truth that there are many hucksters preying on those who need hope.

      That doesn't change the fact that Jesus did come to die for our sins.

 
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