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How much truth have you ever said?

  1. GoldenBird profile image59
    GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago

    Did you speak it to begin with-

    1. mischeviousme profile image59
      mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Truth is concept. What we hold as true, is only a conceptualization of what  we believe is true. Enlightenment and all these things, do not exist. The now is what is important, for it is now that all of this is being created out of nothing. The words we use then, mean nothing and everything. They are born out the concept that we believe, that we are something of our actions and experience, but we are only half right. We are now, not yesterday and not tomorrow.

      1. GoldenBird profile image59
        GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Then the big question will arise, which is - What should we do with this present?

        It's a childish question. But maybe it's one of the biggest questions of life.

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Be the experience of it. Do not try to grasp it, when we grasp it, we try to make it ours. It belongs to all. Cats, dogs, people and all others. It is now that we share and in trying to grasp it, the meaning slips ever away.

          1. GoldenBird profile image59
            GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I am sure I will someday see you in your proper position.

            1. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If you see me in my proper position, you will be seeing yourself.

              1. GoldenBird profile image59
                GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I would love to see myself.

                1. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  How is one supposed to recieve that statement?

                  1. GoldenBird profile image59
                    GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    We need mirrors to see ourselves.

              2. couturepopcafe profile image61
                couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, we do our best with words on the forums. I agree that all life is beauty but disagree that "seeing" beauty is ego. The mind freed of all obscuration makes the universe of physical sensory perception small (unimportant). So the 'sense' of beauty known by the enlightened mind is not ego but the result of contented purity. You and I are actually saying the same thing.

                Ego is in place as a means of discriminative observation but the term is often used to mean self importance. (Not saying that's how you're using it).

          2. GoldenBird profile image59
            GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            " in trying to grasp it, the meaning slips ever away."


            I have one question- Can we express that meaning in words? Is it a conscious experience?

            1. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It is and it isn't. If one studies atomic structures, they see that it is only here in moments. The same can be said for us, if we try to rationalize it by the past, we gain nothing from it. We can only observe ourselve's now and we can only observe all other things now. Moment to moment, is a universe of it's own and contains many universes, as undiscovered.

              1. GoldenBird profile image59
                GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I do agree that the Spirit has much undiscovered. I have found that luck or chance had opened them more, than my own conscious efforts. However, I also tried my luck with conscious efforts, but that was time-consuming. Life is a miracle.

                1. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It is a miracle, because it is.

                2. couturepopcafe profile image61
                  couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  GoldenBird - what you call luck or chance was you being in the right place at the right time prepared by your previous moments to receive that goodness. What you call your own conscious efforts was you trying to mold events so they become your experience instead of focusing on the deepest inclination of your heart.

                  1. GoldenBird profile image59
                    GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The heart often sings songs. We do not listen.

                  2. couturepopcafe profile image61
                    couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    misch - if not about learning (from you or anything), then why are you here posting? You want to share to help others, to edify their lives, to bring all energy to a higher plane. Yes, it's about letting go, but you are here to teach the same way you learned (from whatever source).

            2. couturepopcafe profile image61
              couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Ok, GoldenBird. Here is your first lesson. I'll give you the objective (goal) first so you can see where you're going.

              Goal: When the voice and the vision on the inside become more profound and clear and loud than the opinions on the outside, you've mastered your life.

              Assignment: You are to sit in lotus position with eyes closed. Breath quietly. Go deep into your past where there is both pain and bliss. Allow these memories (mental impressions) to escape without interruption as you witness your experience of life unfold. This is known as mental vomiting and is not to be taken as something bad.

              Don't analyze each event that comes up. Just witness it. You are no longer in that moment but witnessing it from a new moment that will give you a new perspective. Do this every day for 5 days.

              During this exercise, you are to cultivate friendliness toward happiness and compassion toward misery, gladness toward virtue and indifference toward vice.

              You'll discover that much of what passed is irrelevant. We can only receive what we can receive so you will see in stages

              1. mischeviousme profile image59
                mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                One does not need to sit to meditate, we meditate even when we don't know we are doing it. One should just be aware.

                1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                  couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, dear M, I know this and you know this, however, I am the sensei in this classroom. If you want to write your own lesson, do so but do not interfere with my instruction to my student. wink

                  For the beginner, this is a natual and comfortable way for them to focus on the lesson. smile

                  1. mischeviousme profile image59
                    mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    We are all students, rarely one ever becomes the teacher, for the path is solitary and learning is always now. What will one learn from when the teacher is gone? Now is the only true teacher and we are all the student.

              2. GoldenBird profile image59
                GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I appreciate both of you. When one finds God, he loves everyone. God made sunshine to give us light and warmth. He gave us flowers to find happiness.
                He made the stars so we may never forget to dream. He made you so you may be my companion in this brief journey, so I am never alone, never in want of His love.

                1. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Seek it and you will find nothing, let it come to you and you have found everything. That is now.

                2. couturepopcafe profile image61
                  couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That is so sweet. You asked as a pupil, I gave you something to chew on. You can float through life in the now, as mischeviousme suggests, finding awareness through your poetry, perhaps, which is another form of ridding the soul of mental images. Your poetry is a reflection of you.

                  You can also take steps to be intentional toward awareness through active meditation in much the same way you are intentional about going to work every day. Taking intentional steps is no less a part of the journey but may in fact open up channels which are currently blocked.

                  Both are valuable paths to awareness.

                  1. mischeviousme profile image59
                    mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    smile

                  2. GoldenBird profile image59
                    GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You are my karate-Confucius smile

    2. couturepopcafe profile image61
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      How often or how many of us have that highest level of integrity and insight to never lie, embellish, or twist our words to benefit or protect ourselves? Most people lie even to the smallest degree. If you're asking about the truth of the universe, that's not debatable. If you ask me if I made my bed this morning, there is a simple yes or no answer. One of them is the truth.

      Another answer might be 'it's all truth and it's all lies or illusion'. The only thing that matters is the past minute and what you do with it.

      1. GoldenBird profile image59
        GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "The only thing that matters is the past minute and what you do with it."


        -What can we 'really' do with this moment?

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Be in it.

        2. couturepopcafe profile image61
          couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Golden - You can do anything you want to do with it. Just be aware that it will take part in defining the next minute and so on. "Being in the moment" is like saying "Who feels it knows it". Both are valid but unknowable until they're experienced.

          As mischeviousme stated, rationalizing the past to define the future doesn't work.  Understanding that the past actually defines the future is closer to most people's current reality.

          You can't change what you've experienced but you can change your perspective of that experience. Once you begin to learn how to do that, you can change each moment to create better moments which then build into new experiences.

          As humans, we can understand the concept of pure consciousness but not the experience. When the windows to insight begin to open, we go through a phase of seeking (what we term truth). Then we begin to just 'be'. Keep in mind that there will always be distractions or attempts at distraction.

          1. mischeviousme profile image59
            mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Only if one chooses to see the distraction and be stopped by it.

            1. couturepopcafe profile image61
              couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              That's what I believe as well.  The seeker often doesn't recognize distractions for what they are.  Distractions should be looked at and used if they suit. If not, we can simply send them away. But I believe non-recognition of distraction is tantamount to non-recognition of awareness itself.

              1. mischeviousme profile image59
                mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly! now were getting to the brass tacs of it. Then even still it is but a moment in nothingness and should be forgotten all together. One must let it be part of the moment and move on to the next.

    3. OutWest profile image59
      OutWestposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Does anybody really know?

      1. mischeviousme profile image59
        mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It only matters if the mind get's hold of it and it's all down hill from there.

        1. OutWest profile image59
          OutWestposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I guess we make our own reality is some ways.  For good and bad.

          1. mischeviousme profile image59
            mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Absolutely! That is just one step to awakening, accepting it as it is and moving forward moment by moment.

          2. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            OutWest - we make our own reality in every way. Someone can look around and say 'I didn't ask for this' but the actions and steps they took in the past is what created their current circumstance.

            1. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              And yet the future is as illusive as the snake and the mind as restless as the monkey.

              1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                (Did you mean elusive as a snake?) Odd statement coming from you since I know you believe everything is connected.  Are snakes elusive and monkeys restless? Each of these lives their lives according to their needs. Monkeys are often active but restless? Snakes are often hidden in their habitats but elusive?

                1. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  that is the nature of words, we use them to convey mind.

                2. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually I meant illusive, for we think we see it.

                  1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                    couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Ok, illusive. I get that by losing our illusions we lose everything and nothing.

                3. GoldenBird profile image59
                  GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I am messed up! -Where did we begin?

                  1. mischeviousme profile image59
                    mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It doesn't matter where we bigin, only that we are now. Nothingness is beautiful as well, it is peace of mind.

            2. OutWest profile image59
              OutWestposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              True, we do things that can lead us to our current situation.  But as for what is absolutely true we may never know that in this life.

              1. mischeviousme profile image59
                mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                But if one chooses to see the moment for what it is, the decisions made are more clearly thought out. We only have the moment and even then, we really only own it in mind.

    4. kess profile image59
      kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Truth belong only to the one who know it and they cant help but speak it...

    5. LewSethics profile image60
      LewSethicsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm one of those 'bad boys'.  Sometimes I will lie just for fun.  So what?
      Guys lie all the time trying to get layed.
      Chicks lie all the time when they act their act to attract guys.
      Doctors lie when the act like they know what they are doing.
      Cops lie in court.
      Parents lie to kids (tooth fairy, santa).
      Kids lie to parents.
      Anyone who thinks they speak the truth all the time is probably very lonely in their righteousness.

      1. mischeviousme profile image59
        mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        For we walk a solitary path in life.

      2. couturepopcafe profile image61
        couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Or is probably lying. smile

      3. couturepopcafe profile image61
        couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol

    6. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is the truth of Christianity,
      There is the truth of Judaism.
      There is the truth of Islam.

      There is the truth of {insert any religion}.

      Then, there is truth.

      Which one do you refer?

  2. Kyle Payne profile image61
    Kyle Payneposted 5 years ago

    Truth is only measured by how close it is to reality. If I do not know reality, I cannot measure fully what is truth. So the answer is unknown to me.

    1. mischeviousme profile image59
      mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is, what it is. Truth does not exist, but in the heart. Truth is a concept of the ego.

      1. couturepopcafe profile image61
        couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I would respectfully disagree. IMO, truth is not a concept of the ego but a reflection of the Highest State (for lack of a better discription) that dwells within each of us.

        1. GoldenBird profile image59
          GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You mean Bertrand Russell is questioning Plato? smile

          1. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, that is good. I bow to your sense of humor, girl. (It is girl?) Thanks for the nod to BR but I think that would be paradigmsearch. Logic as related to mathematics is not my thing.  I fall more in line with Socratic thinking.

            Here's something that struck me. You're GoldenBird and your avatar is a cat's eye.  Explain?

            1. GoldenBird profile image59
              GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Isn't everything connected? Cat, bird, moon, star all are one! smile


              (Me is boy.)

              1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No, really. Explain.

                1. GoldenBird profile image59
                  GoldenBirdposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  GoldenBird explains me as a poet. The cat's eye explains me as a person.

  3. LewSethics profile image60
    LewSethicsposted 5 years ago

    I like the 'insert any religion' one.  That sentence makes the other three (christianity islam and judaism) seem so much more valid than other religions, which are too trifling to even name.
    It seems that the only time anyone actually tells the truth is when they say 'I don't know'.

    1. mischeviousme profile image59
      mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      smile

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Or, it's because there are so many religions to list, it would take all day to write them down here.

      It is laughable to claim one is any more valid than any other.

      1. mischeviousme profile image59
        mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        smile

      2. LewSethics profile image60
        LewSethicsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That was my point, Troub, but I am laughing, because many religions still practice animal sacrifice and group trance states induced by drugs and/or chanting.  Christians symbolically (for Catholics, literally) eat the flesh and drink the blood of their god.
        Orthodox Jews still sacrifice goats as in the old testament, as do muslims.
        Who knows WTF goes on in Borneo or other primitive places?

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          All of those things you have mentioned are what is tying you to the past. Let it go and be, it will not affect you so.

        2. couturepopcafe profile image61
          couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Lew - Respectfully, Catholics do not eat the flesh and drink the blood. They symbolically use the wafer and juice. (No longer wine). How can Catholics literally eat flesh and blood of a 2000 year old entity?

          1. LewSethics profile image60
            LewSethicsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Its called transubstantiation.  Look it up.

            1. couturepopcafe profile image61
              couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, I know what it means. It's still not done in the literal sense.

              1. mischeviousme profile image59
                mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It's a ritual that has become more important than the teaching itself, which is a shame, for there are many beautiful things to learn from it.

              2. LewSethics profile image60
                LewSethicsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Did you bother to look it up, pop?  Thats the only way to learn.
                Mischieviousme, you are getting tedious.

                1. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not ashamed, I too was once part of the Catholic heard. I just chose to seek my own path and I walk it alone, no book, religion or way will help me find an end, for it could be in the next moment.

                2. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If I struck a nerve, it is because you cannot move past your self. You seem to think that because I am not part of the in crowd, that I am inhuman in some way. Which is the common sentiment of the religious code of ethics.

                  1. LewSethics profile image60
                    LewSethicsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No, its just that I am twice your age and I have heard your transendental circular tripe a million times before from other ego tripping chumps, and I am tired of it.  I will thank you to shut up around me.

 
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