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What is your view of Rhode Island HS prayer banner?

  1. 910chris profile image73
    910chrisposted 5 years ago

    The ACLU is suing a Rhode Island School over a Prayer Banner that an atheist student did not want in her school, but the banner has been there since 1963. Today, the ACLU won that case.

    1. hawkdad73 profile image72
      hawkdad73posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If it is a public school, it shouldn't have been there in the first place.

      1. gregas profile image76
        gregasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You said it, it is a public school and should not have to cater to one person. My opinion. Greg

        1. A Troubled Man profile image59
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You've just contradicted yourself. The public school should therefore not have to cater to Christians.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image59
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Attorneys for Jessica Ahlquist, 16, argued that a banner on display in Providence's Cranston High School West's auditorium titled "School Prayer" and addressing "Our Heavenly Father" is a violation of the Constitution and the Supreme Court's 1962 decision banning state-mandated prayer in school.

      U.S. District Judge Ronald Lagueux disagreed and ruled that the banner should be removed immediately. He also upbraided school officials for holding community meetings about the mural that "at times resembled a religious revival." At one meeting, several school officials read from the Bible or declared their faith. Ahlquist needed a police escort to leave one meeting."

      Notice that even though there was a ban on state-mandated prayer at school, believers broke the law and continued to hold religious revivals, reading from the bible and declaring their faith such that the student in question required a police escort.

      Believers simply cannot be honest.

      1. profile image68
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think the school people were at fault from the beginning.

        Which denomination they belonged to?

    3. gregas profile image76
      gregasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I would like to know who runs that school. Just because the athiest doesn't like it doesn't like it, that doesn't give them the right to have it removed. There are a lot of things I don't like but I either ignore them or deal with it. This just goes to show you how scared atheists are of religion. The prob;em is yhat America is letting them get too strong. My opinion. Greg

      1. Pcunix profile image87
        Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Our Constitution is what REQUIRES it to be removed.

      2. profile image68
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        People should be tolerant of one another; we have to co-exist in this world; but law must take its course.

    4. autumn18 profile image70
      autumn18posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Public school should be totally secular. What if they put up a prayer banner for a different religion like Wicca or Buddhism etc. I doubt people would expect that to stay.

      1. Repairguy47 profile image60
        Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this
        1. Pcunix profile image87
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Such nonsense.

          Nobody would ever object to teaching ABOUT Christianity.  In fact, many atheists like myself would like to see comparative religion classes in all schools as a required course.  Learning about other peoples belief systems is important for tolerance and understanding.

          It's when someone tries to enforce Christianity that we dig in our heels.  That banner was stupid and fighting to keep it was even more so.

          1. Repairguy47 profile image60
            Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this
            1. Pcunix profile image87
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Posting more nonsense doesn't change facts.

              There is nothing wrong with teaching ABOUT religion and Christianity can be included in those courses.

              Forcing  prayer or creating a religious atmosphere is entirely different.

              1. autumn18 profile image70
                autumn18posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree. Teaching what religions are and the differences in them isn't the same as promoting and imposing one on the students.

                1. Pcunix profile image87
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Not only that, but it would help increase tolerance and probably reduce fundamentalism too.

                  1. profile image68
                    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    maybe

              2. gregas profile image76
                gregasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree, TEACHING the different religions should be allowed and would help to understand other peoples beliefs. But it would have to be held to TWACGING and not PREACHING. There is a difference between the two. But I do agree with that. Greg

          2. profile image68
            paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I appreciate your above words.

      2. profile image60
        WhoBeYouBeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The schools in California have a two week or more lesson in their classes in which the children take Islamic names and recite the Shahada and pray to allah every day for two weeks to a month.

        No one is sueing over that.

        I do not hear anyone of you scrteaming about that.

        So that is BS!

        It is a war on christianity in this nation... period.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image59
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          1. Repairguy47 profile image60
            Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Are you not waging a war of sorts? I see you post against Christianity all the time, You take the words of Christians and dispute them every chance you get and deny you are at war. Don't get me wrong, its ok with me that you do it, just be honest about why.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image59
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol You've got to be joking. If you've actually been reading my posts, you would know why.

              By the by, Christianity is not the only religion on the planet. Fyi.

              1. Paul Wingert profile image78
                Paul Wingertposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                For the last 2000 years, Christiaity has been declaring war on everyone else. It's okay for public schools to learn ABOUT other world religions in history or social studies class. As far as practicing a particular religionand prayer, there's no room in a public school or any other public building.

                1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
                  Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6055782_f248.jpg

                  1. mischeviousme profile image58
                    mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol lol It's funny because the little girls looks so innocent. Kind of reminds of the kid from the omen. Sweet on the outside, dark on the inside. Like an M&M.

        2. Repairguy47 profile image60
          Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That would require not being a hypocrite.

          1. profile image60
            WhoBeYouBeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I hear you, repair.

        3. autumn18 profile image70
          autumn18posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          My mom taught in a public elementary school in California for over 30 years and my sister currently teaches elementary in CA. I've never heard of that. Pray to Allah? I highly doubt that. If that is going on it should stop. It wasn't happening when I was in CA public school either.

        4. Mighty Mom profile image91
          Mighty Momposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          A link would be really helpful here.

        5. Pcunix profile image87
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No one would sue over it.  The kids know that they are role playing.

          No one would sue over a similar class about Christianity either.  That banner is an entirely different thing.

        6. Jeff Berndt profile image91
          Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Paranoid delusions.

        7. profile image68
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well the Christians are well prepared; they have Salvation Army.

      3. profile image68
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think they won't object on it; as in their opinion Buddha did not believe in the Creator God; while he believed.

    5. profile image68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What is the wording of the banner?

      Should I congratulate the non-Theists?

    6. profile image0
      Cranfordjsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!! One for the Secular side!

  2. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    I think atheists take life too seriously sometimes, but I don't know the details of the case.

    1. hawkdad73 profile image72
      hawkdad73posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Atheists take life like everyone else.

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        True. We've all become too litigious.

        1. profile image68
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          True

  3. profile image60
    WhoBeYouBeposted 5 years ago

    I think it is pathetic that we keep bowing down to these clowns.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, the truly pathetic part is that tax payer money was spent defending a position that any idiot knows was indefensible. And those idiots ran a school. What is the public education system coming to?

      1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
        Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        When people try to use a public school to push their faith on a captive audience of students, it sounds like the people running that school ought to be disciplined.

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Disciplined? If that equates to firing them, I completely agree.

          1. Pcunix profile image87
            Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, what would that accomplish?  If they know they can't pull this crap again, I don't think they need to be fired. This is error and no doubt they mean well.  If they willfully repeated the offense, sure.  But not now.

            1. wilderness profile image94
              wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Are you sure of that, PC?

              This group of people have for years promoted and demanded religious actions of their students.  They knew very well it was against the law.  Their obvious intention is to indoctrinate young minds into a lifetime of slavery to a myth.

              Now consider a teacher that invites a young 16 year old boy to her home for a little "extracurricular" activity.  She knows it is against the law.  Her intention is a few hours or weeks of fun for herself and the boy and it is over forever.

              One loses her job and her freedom for knowingly violating the law and the morals of the country.  The other deserves no punishment for knowingly violating the law and morals of the country?

            2. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I would disagree. These are people paid to teach our children. If they don't understand the basic premise of separation of church and state they are either lying about having received a diploma from an accredited college or they are willfully ignoring the law. Either way, they should have to seek employment elsewhere. They aren't qualified to teach.

            3. profile image68
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think you are right.

        2. profile image68
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I second you.

  4. pstraubie48 profile image89
    pstraubie48posted 5 years ago

    my concern is that everyone is against anything that is God....everything else it seems is ok...but let God be put into the mix and all of a sudden everyone has to get all upset...it seems that those who are not Christian refuse to even do the kindness of 'listening' to what a Christian says....they are so busy thinking of their reply they do not have time to hear what Christians want to say....as for pushing beliefs on someone......i totally disagree...there are many who attend public schools who are not Christians (not atheists either) who are not FORCED to pray or salute the flag or whatever.....no one's beliefs are pushed on anyone.
    as a citizen of this country i should be able to exercise my beliefs whether i am on school grounds or not.

    1. Pcunix profile image87
      Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are free. Nothing prevents students from praying, reading Biibles etc.  stop spreading lies.  What is prohibited is the SCHOOL endorsing a religious belief.

    2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
      Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "...it seems that those who are not Christian refuse to even do the kindness of 'listening' to what a Christian says."

      Please. Nobody is stopping individual Christians from saying whatever they feel like saying. It's when they use the power of being a teacher or administrator in a public school to promote their own faith to a captive audience that right-thinking people get upset.

      "as a citizen of this country i should be able to exercise my beliefs whether i am on school grounds or not."
      Nobody's stopping anyone from 'exercising their beliefs' on school grounds. What's being prevented is school officials using their power as school officials to push their beliefs on a captive audience of students on school grounds.

      Religious instruction is between the kids, his or her parents, and their minister or priest or rabbi or imam or whoever leads their particular church or synagogue or mosque or sacred grove or whatever.

      You want to have your kids made to take part in devotional religious observances at school, send them to a religious school. Don't expect the local public school to make everyone conform to your beliefs.

  5. profile image0
    Muldaniaposted 5 years ago

    I remember back in the '70s and early '80s, when school assembly was a daily ritual, which included singing hymns and prayer.  There was no objection in those days.  Then, after I started senior school, where there were several Plymouth Brethren students, a room had to be set aside for them to use, when assembly was taking place. This led to questions about religion is schools, and eventually, assemblies were ended.  Having experienced religion in school, I am in two minds about it.  The schools I attended are now very multi-cultural, which they weren't when I attended them.  So, a Christian assembly would no longer be an option.  I do however believe that parents and students should have a choice.  If the majority of students are Christian, then they should be allowed to express their beliefs in a visible way.  There should however be provision for those who do not share those beliefs.

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I would have to ask why the majority should be allowed to express their religious views visibly and as a group, in a public school setting where religion is not being taught?  What is is about their belief that would cause us to set aside times and places in the school (intended and publicly funded to learn)?  Just that they are the majority and thus get whatever they want?

      In addition, just as you say, our land is becoming so multi-cultural that we would need a large sum of additional funding to provide separate spaces for each group.  Are we willing to pay for that, both in decreased time for learning and in additional spaces?  Should we now require that students go to school an extra hour each day so that those that want to have a revival can do so without interrupting classes?  Should we make sure that each and every group have a teacher of their faith to assist them in learning about their God and worshipping him?

      In my area, the Mormon church has a building across the street from nearly every high school, and there is a constant stream of students coming and going from those buildings.  I'm not sure how those kids get around the required class time (perhaps the school finds that mythology is an accepted class), but they do it.  If a church wants to remove kids from school to "teach" them what they "need" to know about religion that's fine, but there is no need to do it on the public dollar OR to demand that all students waste their own time by participating.

      1. profile image0
        Muldaniaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Although not a believer myself, I can't help feeling that the community in which a school is set should have some influence on how it conducts itself.  If a community is very Christian, with almost the entire population singing from the same hymn sheet, it might seem unfair that somone who is in a minority of one should dictate how everyone behaves.  This doesn't mean that that one individual shouldn't also have the right to express their different belief or non-belief.  They should be protected by law and by the recognition of the equality of all views. 

        There were some complaints back in the '80s, when Christian assemblies were banned at my school.  It so happened, that at the same time, the Muslim students were provided with a prayer room.  It seemed to some that Christianity was under attack, whilst Islam was being shown consideration.  And religious education, which had originally centred around the Bible and Christianity developed in that time to cover all world religions.

        When I was very young, there was an accepted view that religion was part of school life, and it was the Church of England view which was the dominant one.  In fact, my school, although a public one was owned by the local Church and even shared the name of St. Michael's.  And I feel that I personally benefitted from that early teaching and example, even though I have gone on to be a non-believer.  And I believe that all schools should be taken as an individual case.  If everyone is Christian in a community, or Muslim, or a mixture of cultures, then the school should be allowed to reflect the community it represents.  However, I realise it is different in the US, which has a legal separation of church and state, whereas the UK has an established church, even though it is a minority religion nowadays.  The schools I attended now have a majority Muslim student population, and so would need to reflect that.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image59
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I think you answered your own question.



          Perhaps, if Christianity had a requirement to pray at certain times every day, Christians would also have prayer rooms.



          But, that's the entire point, the school IS trying to reflect the community it represents, a community in which ALL have the right to believe whatever they want and not dictate those beliefs to others.

    2. profile image68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think it is a good suggestion.

  6. sallieannluvslife profile image85
    sallieannluvslifeposted 5 years ago

    I think they should poll every student and parent in the school system and if the majority says leave the banner, then the banner should be left, if the majority says to take it down, then remove it.  Leave it to a majority rule  - not to one spoiled child because she thinks it offends her.

    1. Pcunix profile image87
      Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Fortunately for the rest of us, our Constitution is designed to protect us from the tyranny of the majority.

      It is absolutely amazing how many supposedly educated people fail to understand that.  It doesn't say much for our educational system.

      1. sallieannluvslife profile image85
        sallieannluvslifeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I hardly think that leaving or removing a banner from a school that has been there for over 30 years and has had no detrimental effect on the psychosis of the thousands of student and parents that have seen it day in and day out over that period of time should be considered "tyranny" and the majority of those who are in contact with the banner should be the ones who decide whether it stays or goes....I do agree with you on one thing, our educational system has seriously failed many, many people in the fact that they have removed common sense from so many individuals

        1. mischeviousme profile image58
          mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          smile That was a very poignant way of saying it.

        2. Pcunix profile image87
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Whether YOU agree or not, that's the law.

          1. sallieannluvslife profile image85
            sallieannluvslifeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And as common sense has been depleted from the schools, it has also been depleted from the justice system  - there are more laws that defend criminals than the victims.  An entire group of children and parents pay the price for one student....makes a lot of sense to me!

            1. Pcunix profile image87
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              This is the Constitution - I guess you don't understand that kind of "common sense".

              1. sallieannluvslife profile image85
                sallieannluvslifeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                There is no "respecting an establishment of religion" by placing a prayer banner in a school or, in this case, leaving it there after it has been there for such a long period of time.  I do not believe the banner specifies any "establishment" of religion, i.e. whether the banner is for Baptists, Methodists, Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, Agnostics, Buddhists or Atheists.  It is merely a prayer that could be meant for anyone and everyone.  And actually, if it is taken down, it is against the Constitution in that it will be "abridging the freedom of speech" - of many, many people who it does not offend, for just one.

                1. Pcunix profile image87
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Fortunately, the courts disagree with you.

                  1. mischeviousme profile image58
                    mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    If it is banned, it could be construde as a Maoist agenda. Now I'm not religious, but religious suppresion is just that, Maoist or communist if one prefers. The fact that they want to bring it down, brings the possibillity of a violent reaction and that's all we need, more violence.

                  2. sallieannluvslife profile image85
                    sallieannluvslifeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The "courts" of today may disagree with me but if you took this case in front of the actual creators and signers of the Constitution - that you purport to vehemently uphold - you would be laughed out of town and probably the Country.  If you will look back into history and the individual signers lives and writings, you will see that most, if not all, of the signers of the actual Constitution were believers in a Divine Creator and participated in public prayers, so this case brought on by a child would not even be given credence.  I do not believe they ever thought the Constitution would be so abused, manipulated and misinterpreted as it is today.  Also, according to you, your disdain for anything "religious" or referring to God would also mean that to you the Declaration of Independence would be null and void as it refersearly on to "all men being CREATED equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR", not rock explosion, Creator, so according to you we should still be under rule of the King of England.  AND, according to you, we would also need to destroy many of our national monuments because many of them have inscriptions referring to God.  AND all of our money should be given back and destroyed as it refers to "In God We Trust" and it should be replaced with "In Ourselves We Trust" or "In Our Rock Explosion We Trust".  Frankly, you stick with trusting in humanity - we see how great it has gotten us so far by taking God out of everything - I'll stick with trustng in an Intelligent Designer who loves us all, yes, even those who don't believe in Him.

                2. ceciladkins profile image80
                  ceciladkinsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The banner was addressed to "Our Heavenly Father," and ended with the word "Amen."  To say that it could be meant for anyone and everyone is pretty silly.

  7. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    Just for the record, this is one of the reasons why I home-school. You can't beat religion out of the public school system, especially in largely uneducated rural communities. 

    I'm not going to go out of my way to keep my kids from being exposed to religion until they are old enough, just to have it shoved down their throat by the school system. 

    If you have a fundie teacher, they are going to teach religion (they just can't help themselves)  If you have fundie school boards, they are going to ignore the law (because "God's law" comes first)

    I really don't want my children used as marks in God's referral scheme.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image59
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I know we've had this discussion before, but I don't think it was clear at the time, at least not for me.

      Can I assume you are in fact living in a largely uneducated rural community and are forced to deal with fundie school boards with fundie teachers shoving their religion down kids throats?

      If so, I can now understand why you would want to home school your kids. smile

      1. Disappearinghead profile image87
        Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Why does America get its knickers in a twist about religion in schools?

        In the UK teaching religion is compulsory in schools, and assemblies must happen at least once a week where religion is discussed, and it must be broadly Christian. It's funny though that other faiths don't get upset (except Jehovah's Witnesses) and neither do atheists. Why? Because everyone recognises that religion is just another thread in the fabric of society and the moral teachings of Christ are considered beneficial in the UK. People seem able to differentiate His teachings from the Church.

        Get over yourselves American fundies and atheists, life is more important.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          For me personally, I don't like it when my kids are taught things that are inappropriate, personally biased, or flatly ignorant.

          If I allowed my children to be brainwashed I have failed as a parent.  If you are okay with other people raising and teaching your kids whatever they deem "correct" then good on you.

          I do get my knickers in a twist over it though, because my children ARE my life.  And yes, they are quite important.

          1. Disappearinghead profile image87
            Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What do you consider to be inappropriate or biased?

            It's hardly brainwashing if kids are taught in an objective matter of fact way. No kids have the teacher's personal views forced upon them (that's a big no no); no kids are ordered to believe under tgreat of hell. It is possible to plainly teach the facts of what each religion believes. Religion is just one of many subjects in the curriculum.

            1. Pcunix profile image87
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Nobody objects to that.  Comparative religion is something I would love to see be a required subject in all schools.

              A banner praising Jesus isn't teaching anything but intolerance.

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              What matters is I don't wish my kids being taught about religion until they are mature enough to understand all sides. Religion is one of those subjects that really can't be taught objectively easily.  Even if one is careful about what they SAY, body language is pretty telling.

              But it doesn't really matter, the fact is that I don't want my children taught about it until I say so.  It is not the place of the government to instill religion (or values) on my children.  I got that.  Stick to teaching literacy and math.  I'll worry about my children's values.  I just took it a bit farther in my family with "You know what, you suck at teaching literacy and math as well... just go away, I got that too."

              Now, a question to you... exactly who should teach comparative religion? Do you know anyone who doesn't have a dog in that fight who can be completely objective?  Yeah, me neither.

              1. Pcunix profile image87
                Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Any agnostic.

                No dog in any fight.

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You would think that until you realize that non-belief or even skepticism is also a bias.  If you have a belief one way or the other then you cannot be completely objective.

                  1. Pcunix profile image87
                    Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    But that's true for history, too.   

                    I'm not suggesting that third graders are ready for much beyond "Different people believe different things and in this country we protect their right to do so and not to believe any of it at all, too".

                    But by sixth grade, I think they should have some knowledge of the history of religion.  I'm not too worried about prejudice - it's often said that training for priests produces many an atheist because of that.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image59
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this
          1. Disappearinghead profile image87
            Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So on the basis of the actions of four bigoted nutters, all religious education should be stopped? That's like saying the entire Islamic community are a bunch of fundamentalist nutters who want to be terrorists. This article is not about whether religion should be taught in school but an incident of extremism. This kind of extremism exists in pockets here and there and will exploit any outlet to manifest itself.

            If we go down the route of banning all religion from schools, then kids grow up ignorant of the religious groups in their communities, which leads to racism and religious intolerance.

            It is because these four nutters are ignorant of life outside Islam that feeds their propensity for violence.

        3. Jeff Berndt profile image91
          Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well, the UK has an official state religion. The US doesn't, and is specifically forbidden from having one by its Constitution. That's a big part of the difference.

      2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I wouldn't necessarily say uneducated as much as underexposed.  We are tight-knit community and the Christian Fundies aren't really the "shove the religion down your throat" as they are unable to comprehend that other people aren't all born-again.  "God Bless You" is really a standard parting statement.  The closeness of the community also shuts down a lot of racism/bias against gays.  For the most part, they all seriously love you no matter what color you are or who you sleep with.

        However, they seriously cannot separate their religion from their job and it colors everything they teach. I'd prefer to shelter my kids from that until they are old enough to choose for themselves.

  8. Pcunix profile image87
    Pcunixposted 5 years ago

    Nice kids:

    "Who would Jesus wish hell-rape upon?"

    http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2012/01/16 … om-school/

  9. sallieannluvslife profile image85
    sallieannluvslifeposted 5 years ago

    I would like to know why you, who claim to be Atheist, hate anything and everything that refers to or may refer to God?  If you don’t believe He exists than why give credence to Him by arguing about it, resorting to calling those who do names like “fundies”, and using snippy attitudes when responding?  Is it because if you do admit that He is, then you would have to accept personal responsibility for your actions and choices and reap the consequences thereof without being able to blame someone else?  Why is it that we, who do believe there is a God, (whether affiliated with a specific religion or not) are always attacked for our beliefs, but have to respect the fact that you do not?  Why is it that you can make such a huge issue out of a prayer banner in a little school that has never offended anyone for 50 years just because it now offends a 16 year old who wants it removed because she doesn’t believe in God?  Alternatively,  you, the few, who wanted prayer removed from schools, had it removed, when you wanted the Pledge of Allegiance no longer recited, it was no longer recited, even when you wanted the moment of silence removed, it was.  This is just hypocrisy.  Do you honestly think the Founding Fathers wanted prayer removed from schools , the Pledge of Allegiance no longer recited, God Bless America no longer allowed to be sung, prayers at graduations and graduation ceremonies no longer allowed and insignificant prayer banners removed from schools?  I do not think so or they would never have allowed any mention of or reference to God at the birth of our great nation and subsequently allowed it for many, many years after.  I’m sorry you are so threatened by God, because if you don’t believe in Him, you shouldn’t be so afraid of a little prayer banner or any references to Him.  Removal of a prayer banner, a pledge, a prayer, a song will not remove God from existence, or the hearts of those who believe in Him, nothing will.  I respect your right to your beliefs and do not force my beliefs on anyone so you, who are atheists, should respect others’ rights and not force your beliefs on anyone, either – are we not all CREATED equal?

    1. autumn18 profile image70
      autumn18posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You're making a lot of assumptions and generalizations. Not all atheists or agnostics think the way you think they do. It doesn't matter though, it's your opinion. The bottom line on this subject though is that regardless of opinions, public schools should not be supporting or promoting any religious beliefs.

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And this type of thinking is why I will just teach my kids at home, thanks.  Now I don't even trust the religious to teach history.

      Next it will be 2+2=5 cause God said so.

      Maybe when my Grandkids are ready to go to school, those who think that teaching MY kids THEIR religion is perfectly fine will have finally been silenced.

      I gotta wonder though how they would feel about having a huge ass prayer to Satan on the walls of their school?  I bet Separation of Church and State would be their best friend then.

      1. autumn18 profile image70
        autumn18posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe the Satan prayer banner could be put in the school basement next to the altar. Then no one needs to see it and be offended.

        Sorry, just having a bit of fun.

    3. Jeff Berndt profile image91
      Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Do you honestly think the Founding Fathers wanted prayer removed from schools , the Pledge of Allegiance no longer recited, God Bless America no longer allowed to be sung,"

      Well, as for prayer in schools, there weren't any public ones at the time, so it wasn't an issue. As for the Pledge and God Bless America, neither of those things existed during the founding era, so the question is moot.

      "I do not think so or they would never have allowed any mention of or reference to God at the birth of our great nation"
      Have you read the Constitution? Go do so. Find me a mention or a reference to God.

      " I respect your right to your beliefs and do not force my beliefs on anyone so you, who are atheists, should respect others’ rights and not force your beliefs on anyone, either"
      Heh, they aren't forcing anyone not to believe in God. They are (rightly) insisting that the school does not unconstitutionally proselytize.

      Heck, I could turn the "Why are you so threatened" right back at you. If you're so strong in your faith, why does it matter if school officials are forbidden to abuse their position of authority by preaching to a captive audience of students? God still exists, whether the school is being unconstitutionally and illegally used as a pulpit so that believers can preach their brand of Christianity to their students or not. Taking down that banner has no impact on the existence of God. Why does it matter so much to you? Why so insecure?

  10. sallieannluvslife profile image85
    sallieannluvslifeposted 5 years ago

    Read the question/statement as asked.... it wasn't about whether or not schools existed or not at the time is was whether or not they would have allowed prayer, etc. if they did - which they would have allowed based on their own quotes.  A prayer banner does not constitute "preaching to a captive audience" and it didn't bother anyone for 50 years.   Really?  The school is hardly being used a pulpit with a 50 year old prayer banner - the 16 year old did not have to read the banner, that was her choice as it is the choice of everyone else whether or not to read it.  Frankly, I just answered the forum question and was attacked for what I believe and my opinion.  As to my being insecure...that is really funny, It will not matter what you or anyone else says....there is more proof to my belief in an intelligent designer than in the belief that life can come from an exploding rock - even Darwin agreed with that - research how he felt about the human eye and his disdain for the peacock feather that reminded him of the human eye.  This question matters to me and should to all of us because one 16 year old child's opinion should not be able to change what a community has not had a problem with for 50 years.

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
      Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "it wasn't about whether or not schools existed or not at the time is was whether or not they would have allowed prayer, etc. if they did - which they would have allowed based on their own quotes."
      A faulty conclusion. The founders would absolutely not have allowed a public school to preach instead of teach, mainly because they kept any acknowledgement of divine authority out of the Constitution.
      The utter absence of God, Christ, or any other supernatural being in the Constitution means that the government is a secular one, whose authority is derived from the people, and no other source.

      " A prayer banner does not constitute "preaching to a captive audience""
      Yes. It does.

      "and it didn't bother anyone for 50 years."
      You have no way of knowing that. We only know that this kid is the first person it bothered who also had the courage to say something about it. Good for her, says I.

      "the 16 year old did not have to read the banner"
      Yeah, she pretty much did, if she had to walk past it every day. Literacy is an interesting phenomenon: when a literate person sees writing, he reads it. There's no conscious effort involved unless you're just learning to read, or just learning to read a new language. So yes, she did have to read the banner.

      "I just answered the forum question and was attacked for what I believe and my opinion."
      Nobody attacked you for your beliefs (that I can recall--point out an attack on your beliefs and I'll retract). And nobody attacked you for your opinion; they've been disagreeing, certainly. So have I, because I think you're wrong about it. When someone attacks your opinion, they're not attacking you.

      "As to my being insecure...that is really funny,"
      Okay, if you're secure in your faith, why does it matter to you if a public school does or doesn't have a banner proclaiming that all of its students believe in Him? Does God becomes less powerful somehow when unconstitutional proclamations of faith get taken down? I don't think so. Why does it matter?

      "there is more proof to my belief in an intelligent designer than in the belief that life can come from an exploding rock "
      No there isn't. There is exactly no proof in a divine Creator. That's why we have to have faith in Him. And--let's be clear--I'm not saying there's no God. I'm saying there's no proof of His existence. That doesn't change my faith.

      "This question matters to me and should to all of us because one 16 year old child [deserves to be protected from the tyranny of the mob, just as any minority does]."
      There, fixed it for you.

      1. sallieannluvslife profile image85
        sallieannluvslifeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If you cannot look around you and see how life comes from life not life comes from nonliving things....then that is why you are so angry and agrumentative about God and there is and never will be a word I or anyone else can say that will change that....as I said before, you have the right to believe what you want and I have the right to believe what I want and that is what is so great about America....Have  nice life....arguing with you is a waste of the precious time on this earth that God has given me.

        1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
          Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "then that is why you are so angry and agrumentative about God"
          LOL. I am not argumentative at all about God. I'm a believer.

          But I will fight tooth and nail to ensure that the government doesn't oppress those who believe in a different god, or those who have different ideas about the God I believe in, or who believe in no god at all.

          You're free to believe in God, and even to believe you have 'proof' of his existence if you want. (You don't have proof, but hey, I'm free to believe that, too.)

          I take issue with anyone who concludes that because they believe in God, and that most other people do, too, they get to assume that everybody believes in God, and should just shut up and sit quietly when the majority expects them to pay homage to a God they don't worship.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image59
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Scientist don't just "look around" and make conclusions. They actually do the rigor of research and experimentation in order to understand the world around us.

          By merely taking a look around us, we can conclude the earth is flat, too.

          See how that doesn't work?

  11. Jeff Berndt profile image91
    Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago

    So I just saw an update on this story:

    "The prayer, eight feet tall, is papered onto the wall in the Cranston West auditorium, near the stage. It has hung there since 1963, when a seventh grader wrote it as a sort of moral guide and that year’s graduating class presented it as a gift. It was a year after a landmark Supreme Court ruling barring organized prayer in public schools."

    It's looking like the school put up the prayer as a sort of middle finger to the Supreme Court. We can do whatever the heck we want to, and you can't stop us. (This is speculative, and I only suggest it based on the timing of the prayer's appearance.)

    Now I'm really happy that the school lost its case.

 
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