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Mormons are Christians, Prejudice is Ignorance

  1. 0
    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago

    I'm wondering how people feel about this subject around here.

    I truly believe that Mormons are sincere Christians, and that the majority of people who don't agree are simply ignorant to Mormon beliefs, or the Bible.

    I would like to hear, do you agree that Mormons are Christians? If so, why not, and would you allow someone to explain any perceived discrepancies and keep an open mind?

    1. habee profile image91
      habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, I believe Mormons are Christians. I have an old friend who's a Mormon.

      1. 62
        passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        no i don't think they are christian. It starts where the Mormon beliefs begins, the great apostasy.  2 thess 2. this is where the book of mormon believes that the apostasy is prophesied. but if you read the scripture carefully, you find that the lds have it wrong. this is what i believe
        The Great apostasy has not happen yet.

        John 15:2, Every branch (believer, disciple, true Christian) that beareth fruit, He (God) shall prune it, that it may bring forth more fruit. (The true Word of God will continue forever.) The branches are the believers and/or teachers and the fruit are those who are taught. God will get those people ready (prune) and the cycle will continue forever.

        This is what God promised.

        The Great apostasy is talked about in 2 Thessalonians Ch 2. When the people thought that the day of the Lord had already began. 2Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away fi rst (The Great apostasy) AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition (Satan).

        The Great apostasy (the Great falling away) will happen when the anti christ (the son of perdition"damnable to die") comes and teaches his false doctrine (Rev 13). The people will be tricked into worshiping the beast (satan) and will be turned away from the true Christ. The great Apostasy.

        Jesus promised us that he would never leave us or forsake us. Hebrews 13:5, And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; John 14:16 we will always have the Holy spirit we will always have Jesus.

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Everything aside, passing, does someone have to have the correct understanding about every gospel principle to be a Christian?

          If so, then what church has the real Christians?

          1. 62
            passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            the bible. the bible is the word of God. Religion is what take words out of the bible and twists it. just like satan does. just like the LDS does or any religion that contradicts the bible.

            1. pedrog profile image15
              pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You do know that it was the Catholic Roman Church that compiled the Bilble...

            2. 0
              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You didn't answer my question.

              Does someone have to have the correct understanding of every gospel topic in order to be a Christian?

              1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                not every topic
                just the basic important creeds and belief that the bible was given to assist Christian growth.

        2. 0
          practicposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          passingtheword,

          You seem to be unfamiliar with the history of the Catholic Church: her imitation of the priesthood and temple of heaven, her exaltation of one man as the head of the church, her persecution of heretics (who were often true believers), her selling of salvation, her hiding of the Bible from the common people, the invention of saints, images, idols, immortality of the soul, confession to priests, playing the harlot with the kings of the nations, etc.

          You won't find a better apostasy than this one, and every true Reformer who arose in the 14th to 18th centuries had no problem identifying that system with 2 Thessalonians 2, the Thyatiran church period of Revelation, the little horn of Daniel 7, and the beast of Rev. 13.

          Not only that, but there is a time period given for this apostasy: 1260 days. In prophecy, a day equals a year. This fits perfectly to the reign of the Catholic church over the kings of Europe, from 538AD (when the last of the Arian nations were wiped out - ie. the "three horns" who were to be uprooted by the little horn), to 1798AD (when Napoleon's general took the pope captive). "He that leads into captivity must go into captivity." (Rev. 13:10).

          There is no need to look for another.

    2. pedrog profile image15
      pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sure they are Christians, Jesus Christ had a magic under pant and it clearly says in the bible that jesus walked in america and the native americans are cursed...

      Lie upon a lie is still a lie...

      1. 62
        passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        pedrog do you see the error of their translation of 2 thess?

      2. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Do you actually care to understand LDS beliefs, or do you prefer to simply ridicule?

        The Bible never said Jesus *didn't* go anywhere else, in fact, Christ does refer to 'other sheep'. What you interpret that to mean is personal, but it can be argued that that is evidence for him visiting other people.

        Mormons don't have magic underpants, and that statement simply shows ignorance regarding the subject.

        1. pedrog profile image15
          pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well, i do believe the bible is just a big scam, if you based a religion on the bible with some outrageous claims it is just a bigger scam...

          "An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof." Marcello Truzzi

          And you have no proof...

          1. 0
            JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Ok, I understand now.

            Proof of religion, according to human technology, is currently not possible. Not objective, scientific proof.

            Instead, religion is a personal subject. The proof lies in personal, subjective experiences. I have my proof, but it would mean nothing to you.

            1. pedrog profile image15
              pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You have no proof! What you have is some wishful thinking and a very delusional one, if you really believe something it doesn't make it happen... Ask the starving children in Africa...

              1. 0
                JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                How do you know I don't have proof of God?

                How do you know what I've experienced in my life?

                1. pedrog profile image15
                  pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, do you have it?

                  If you do, you do realize that it would be the greatest revelation in the history of mankind!!!

                  I will be waiting for it to be announced in every tv channel in the world and for every scientist to verify your claim, thank you for this big revelation!!!

                  1. 0
                    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I do, I already told you.

                    My proof is based off of personal experiences. It works perfectly for me, but it doesn't work for anyone else.

                    Let's just say, again, that I had seen and spoken to God. I could tell you 'My proof is that I saw and spoke with God', but of course, that wouldn't prove anything to you. It would to me, but not to you.

                    You would think I was either lying or crazy. It's a personal subject, and the proof is subjective.

                2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Those that have been blessed by God know that God exists

                  1. pedrog profile image15
                    pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Is that some kind of club that only some privileged people can access?

                    Or delusion spreed by the power of persuasion?

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol Yes, they are "special" lol

    3. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I can agree that Mormons are "Christians" I will state that "IF" Mormon Beliefs, whatever they might be are Holy Bible substantiated, in other words backed up by Biblical Scripture, then those beliefs I could uphold as good. Any Mormon beliefs that are not scriptural are not of God and have no right to be followed.

      I am a Catholic, But I have attacked Catholic beliefs and dogma, which are not Biblicallly Scripturally proven correct, and I refuse to follow them.

      1. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I like seeing an accepting attitude among those who profess to be Christians. All Mormon beliefs have some basis in the Bible, although many don't agree with their interpretation.

        Let me ask though, do you think God could have the same relationship with other people than the Jews? Do you think God could have sent scripture to other nations as well?

    4. lizzieBoo profile image78
      lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      A Christian is someone who believes in the divinity of Christ. That is, Jesus being both man and God. If you don't believe that, you may well be a good and saintly person, but you aren't a Christian.

      1. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        What does the bible say about the divinity of Christ?

        What do Mormons say about the divinity of Christ?

        All too often, it isn't what the bible says, but what a church says the bible means, that is used as a requirement for Christianity.

        1. lizzieBoo profile image78
          lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          We know that Christ was conceived by God, which means he was both man and God.. There is no ambiguity about that.
          I don't know what the Mormon position is on that.
          All too often, people speak about the Bible as if it magically appeared without the aid of a Church.

          1. 0
            JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I believe there is stuff in the Bible that shouldn't be there(it wasn't put together by prophets and apostles, which are the foundation of Christ's church), and stuff that should have been included.

            Mormons do believe that Christ inherited divinity from the Father, including the ability to lay down his life and take it back up, as well as mortality from his mother, making it possible to lay down his life.

            1. lizzieBoo profile image78
              lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Practicing Christians put the New Testament together based on what they knew to be true, based on the graces they recieved from the Holy Spirit.. There was more left out than was put in. In the protestant reformation, more stuff was taken out to match with the beliefs of protestants. So you must be part of a new wave of protestantism which thinks even more should be taken out?

              1. 0
                JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Spin it any way you want, but the fact is that the revelation and authority to make decisions regarding Christ's Church was with the prophets and apostles. Without prophets and apostles, the foundation of the church, there is no truly authorized basis for deciding what should and shouldn't go in the Bible.

                I can provide one verse that says no man can see Elohim, and another verse that says many men have seen Elohim. Maybe it was mistranslated, or maybe corrupted, or maybe something was put in that wasn't meant to be there.

                I think one should be careful studying the bible, and try to compare to the overall message, other scripture, and depend on prayer to know what is correct. I'm not advocating taking anything out or adding anything else, but it's good to understand where the Bible came from.

                It's also good to look at other texts such as the Apocrypha. God will reveal the truth as we seek smile

                1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                  lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Apostolic tradition. You're absolutely right.

                  1. 0
                    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, they claim to have apostolic succession without apostles.

                    The Bible says nothing about this. It says apostles and prophets are the foundation. Clearly the Catholic Church is not the same, or it would have them too.

                2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The canon of the early church could not be stopped. The letters that circulated around the churches and were used by the churches are the ones we have in the NT. The OT is without dispute. Its not that the compilers of canon mechanically picked and chose which books to put in, it is more like: these letters circulated among the churches, these gospels are from apostles.
                  The tricky part of canon was keeping out manuscripts that contradicted the true beliefs. If you read any apocrypha and psuedepigrapha book you will come across practices and beliefs that are not in compliance with the bible, that is to say that certain things mentioned are not backed up in other books of the bible.

                  To say that apocrypha is important to the bible is completely wrong as it is not needed at all and promotes wrong practices. They may be good for history lessons but certainly are not beneficial for spiritual growth.

                  1. 0
                    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, if you believe in the integrity of the history books, the integrity of the church at the time, and the integrity of men.

                    If you believe, when religious position carried more power than military position, that religious leaders were in it for only love and faith.

                    If you believe that when the leader of the 'one Christian Church' was killed by an army, and that nation put in place their own leader, that they did so to uphold the truth of the Church of Christ.

                    If you believe that there is no way that things could have been corrupted through all that time...

          2. Perspycacious profile image75
            Perspycaciousposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Good discussion, out of which can come greater understanding.  Latter-day Saints believe in Christ's divinity, that he walked among men in mortality, died a mortal death on the Cross, rose from death and the tomb, and sits on the right hand of God The Father just as seen by Stephen.  They also believe Christ to be the Jehovah of the Old Testament and that Elohim is God, the Heavenly Father to whom Christ prayed as recorded in the scriptures.  They believe that the Bible is true to the extent to which it was translated correctly down to and beyond the King James Version.  They believe that  Almighty God and a resurrected, eternal Christ have infinte power to act in the past, the present, and the future.  They believe that God is unchanging, and the only righteous judge, and that Christ will act as man's advocate at the time of man's judgement.  They believe that the family is ordained of God as a man (the father) and a woman (the mother); that the two with any children sealed to them on earth can be an eternal family, and that mortals who keep and practice Christ's gospel can one day return to dwell with Christ and their Heavenly Father in His celestial kingdom.  They believe that all mankind will be resurrected and judged, irregardless of whether they are Christians or not.  And that all mankind will know Christ's disciples and followers in that they have (and practice) love one for another.  They also believe in Christ's return, the millenium, and all else that Christ taught his disciples, and that God will never leave His children without the guidance of a prophet today just as there were prophets to guide His children in the past.  They believe that the Book of Mormon is a second testament to Jesus Christ's divinity and that it and the Bible are the two sticks which can be held in one hand as referred to in Ezekiel 37:16.  Latter-day Saints follow Christ, teach of Christ, and revere Christ the Son of God, as well as God The Father, and the Holy Ghost.  It is in their names that Latter-day Saints are baptized and confirmed beginning at age eight, and make covenants at baptism and in temples to remain faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ while granting to all men, women, and children the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience how, where, or what they may as described and set forth in their 11th of 13 of "The  Articles of Faith" first published over 150 years ago and available today for anyone to read and understand more of what Latter-day Saints believe.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ezekiel 37:16   Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

                Ezekiel 37:17   And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

                Ezekiel 37:18   And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

                Ezekiel 37:19   Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

              Ezekiel 37:21   And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

                Ezekiel 37:22   And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

              The bible and the book of mormon is not what is being talked about here. The sticks are representative of God bringing his nation back to one nation. These are clearly not one stick being the bible and another stick being the book of mormon.

              1. Onusonus profile image87
                Onusonusposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Clearly there are a multitude of passages in the Bible which have more than one meaning. But this one, well there's just no way that could happen! Parish the thought! wink

                1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Exactly
                  I don't see what all the fuss is about over what scripture means. A huge large portion of the bible is quite obvious is stated clearly and intentionally means exactly what it purports to mean.

                  1. Onusonus profile image87
                    Onusonusposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You are absolutely right, particularly when the objective of the interpreter is to invalidate the beliefs of other sects of Christianity of whom they disagree.
                    It is important, in order to maintain an exclusionary standard, to only allow leniency when interpreting passages of the Bible that fit into your specific set of beliefs. Anything less would be heresy.

            2. MissE profile image81
              MissEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              AMEN!  Thanks for laying it down Perspycacious.

          3. Hollie Thomas profile image61
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            We know that Christ was conceived by God, which means he was both man and God.. There is no ambiguity about that

            No lizzie, "we don't know that" that is what you believe. Belief and knowledge are not synonymous.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Amazing how the words "no ambiguity" can be used for complete fallacy and are meant to be taken seriously.  In this case they are intended to mean there is no doubt in anyone's mind, as if the poster knew such an impossible thing to be true.  Those indoctrinated fully into a cult rarely check out the false teachings they've been instilled with from an early age.  Such is the danger of religious cults in today's society.

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, when in "reality" there is lots of ambiguity and the reason why this is up for debate. No ambiguity, no debate. Hmm, how do we get that across??

              2. lizzieBoo profile image78
                lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Right Randy. Thank you for your usual poisonous remarks.

                fallacy
                indoctrinated
                cult
                danger

                Nice

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Since when is truth "poisonous"?





                  Unless you are the sole arbiter of "ambiguity" then this IS a fallacious statement! 

                  Unless you came by your religious beliefs without being taught them by others then you WERE indoctrinated.

                  Unless your particular sect of religion is the only one in existence then it IS a cult.

                  Unless Jim Jones did his christian followers a service by encouraging them to die then there IS a danger from false religious beliefs.

                  And my reply is certainly not as "poisonous" as the Kool-aid Jones' christian cult drank and gave to their children also.

                  1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                    lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Jim Jones was an evil bastard heading an evil cult.

                    Catholicism is not a cult.
                    If your idea of religion is Jim Jones then you need to get out more.

            2. lizzieBoo profile image78
              lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It it what is doctrinally true.
              But who cares.
              Life and what it means is completely subjective.
              Geez what am I doing here?

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It is not "doctrinally true" it is theory. If life and what it means is completely subjective then you have to concede that it is also ambiguous. However, I do agree on one point. the bible did appear with the aid of the church, with the aid of man. Not god.

                1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                  lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Doctrine is not a theory, it is theology.

    5. bloggerbryan profile image59
      bloggerbryanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why would anyone feel they can say someone is not Christian?  If someone says they are Christian that makes them Christian.  It would be unchristian to not accept them.  There are many Christian religions that completely disagree with each other on doctrine, and even ministers from among one faith.  So why is it that so many Christian religions disagree with each other, yet accept the Christianity of all, except the Mormons?  Why do people feel need to attack Mormon beliefs when more often than not Mormons agree with other Christian faiths?  Truth is truth no matter where it comes from.  Embrace it and make friends.

      1. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well said smile

      2. lizzieBoo profile image78
        lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It's not about attacking, it's about what is believed. There is a difference between saying someone is "not a Christian" and calling someone "Un-Christian". This is not a moral judgement,  we are trying to decipher what it means to be a believing Christian. Jehovah's witnesses for example, don't think Christ was God. Therefore they aren't Christians.

        1. Shanna11 profile image92
          Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Christian

          The dictionary includes far more people under the label of Christian than Christians do themselves, it seems.

          1. lizzieBoo profile image78
            lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That dictionary definition is very flawed. No mention of Catholic or Orthodox, and yet it mentions Plymouth Brethren. Biased I think.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              lol lol <--- coveted double laughie award

              1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you.

        2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And now that a completely random internet person has given their opinion of the definition of Christianity on a writer's forum, all Jehovah's Witnesses are now required to turn over their Christian cards immediately.  That's it you all, you are out of the club!

          You all are free to become Followers of Christ however.  You can't be Christian though unless you follow a bunch of old guys that lived in the fourth century.  Please remind the "Christians" to not include you in their inflated numbers when they are touting the success of Christianity.

          Let's see, according to what I've read on these forums so far that means all Catholics, Unitarians, Mormons, and JWs need to get out of the pool.  It's okay though, the Baptists pee in the water.

          1. lizzieBoo profile image78
            lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Jehovah's Witnesses don't call themselves Christians. They don't want to be affiliated with Christians. Nobody is pushing anyone else out of the "club".
            Why is it not ok to have a definition?

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              On this side of the pond, JW consider themselves the only Christians. You would be the heretic.

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I know quite a few JWs that do call themselves Christians but I can most certainly understand not wanting to be affiliated with the label.  The problem with having a definition is that it needs to be the same definition to everyone, otherwise it is just an opinion.

              The problem with opinions as definitions is they always seem to go along the lines of "I believe this way and if you don't then you are wrong by my definition". It's the "No REAL Scotsman" argument. 

              The "Jesus is a God" definition of Christianity is your own construct or at most the construct of your sect.  It's fine if you want to believe that, but it should in no way shape or form be stated as an official definition.  Neither you nor your sect have that kind of authority.

              1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The problem with having a definition is that it needs to be the same definition to everyone, otherwise it is just an opinion.

                Not true. Nuclear reaction is caused by the splitting of atoms is not an opinion its the proper definition, the correct one, so anyone with a different definition is just wrong and wrong is wrong and not 'just' an opinion.
                You use opinion when something doesn't agree with your definition of a belief system, because belief systems are more open to interpretation and less concrete but nevertheless, some beliefs are wrong and others correct.

                People who can read the bible and then say that Jesus is not God come in the flesh are just ignoring the truth of the bibles message. To say that Jesus was only a prophet falls far short of what the bible portrays and even lacks support from Jesus' own psychological profile. Just that Jesus was sinless during his entire life is certainly indicative of something only God can do.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "In nuclear physics and nuclear chemistry, a nuclear reaction is semantically considered to be the process in which two nuclei, or else a nucleus of an atom and a subatomic particle (such as a proton, or high energy electron) from outside the atom, collide to produce products different from the initial particles."  ~~ wiki



                  No, they can all be wrong.

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                    brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    and when two atoms collide... what happens... something breaks apart or splits.

                    and you can be wrong

              2. lizzieBoo profile image78
                lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Melissa, To be a Christian means to believe that Christ was God in human form. The first Christians compiled the Bible with that view in mind. The word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
                By your thinking, there is no right or wrong... only opinion. I don't buy into that Modernist, anti-absolutism. There is such a thing as truth. It isn't about fairness. It isn't about how this or that person have decided to have a fresh new version of Christianity, and we should all start sharing and stop complaining. Truth is a serious matter. Its what gets Troubled Man so angry, and I understand him there.
                Christianity is an oral tradition. That is how it started out, that is how it continued. The wisdom in avoiding the written word is illustrated perfectly in the divisions and divisions of the original church. It is a heartbreaking fact that Christianity is divided up into many parts. The solution is not to declare that everyone is right, that everyone has a right to their own version of Christianity. That is not how you preserve truth. That's how truth gets corrupted.
                I don't believe Jesus rowed to America in his spare time, wrote a pile of essays which were found 2000 years later, translated by John Smith, or was it Joe Brown or Fred Blogs, and lost in a fire. I don't accept that story, nor should I have to. There is no evidence, nor any reasonable cause based on what we know of scripture.
                This definition is not my own construct, nor is it uniquely Catholic. Every Christian believes that. Anglicans, Methodists, Born Agains...

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Of course I see.

                  Every Christian believes that Christ was a god because those Christians that don't believe that he was a God aren't Christians.

                  Which amounts to "Those who don't believe the way I do aren't REALLY following Christ".

                  Call it truth as much as you want to, unless you want to challenge the definition of opinion OR provide proof that what you think is absolutely correct, then it will remain your opinion.

                  What IS A FACT is those other groups are counted among Christianity by all recognized official definitions. So really, your opinion or "truth" doesn't mean dick.  Hows that for anti-absolutism?

                  1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                    lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Right, so you're quite happy to have the government tell you what truth is. Ok.

                    I actually think that setting up a new Christian sect, all fresh, blond-haired and blue eyed, nice and separate from the North African Jews, is a little bit suspect. No wait, I think it's divisive and wrong.  There, I said it.

                  2. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                    Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    +1

                2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  As opposed to just living by his words?



                  Yes, it's called reality.



                  lol <--- me being angry



                  Of course not, you weren't brainwashed in Mormonism.



                  lol Classic!

                  1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                    lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks for your imput.
                    It's been great.

    6. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      **********************************

      Since their other name is " Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints"
      I would sadly say yes

    7. Philanthropy2012 profile image91
      Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why would you be offended if you were not grouped into a classification connoted with ignorance itself?

      1. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not offended, I'm more curious smile

    8. hybridamerica profile image62
      hybridamericaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Meh, Christianity, Islam... Mormonism... Scientology...

      All of them...  Nuts.

      1. debugs profile image71
        debugsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        THERE... you also have a VALID point !

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey Bugsy!  How ya doin'? smile

  2. ananceleste profile image81
    anancelesteposted 4 years ago

    If people can read and listen they will figure it out. Let's see :
    Church Of Jesus Christ For Latter Day Saints
    How can someone ask when the answer is in the name.

    1. 62
      passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      i like that.

    2. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      A lot of people don't know that LDS = Mormons...

      A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Usually someone will say 'they misinterpret the Bible so that means they aren't really Christians', but by that logic there could only be one Christian church, and there isn't smile

      1. 62
        passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        And the LDS church is not it.
        This is why they have to change their views every so often to try and fall in line with Christianity.
        Why would they want to be called Christians, when they say that everyone beside The Mormons are an abomination (damnable to die)

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          First, Mormons don't say non-mormons are an abomination.

          Secondly, God himself(if you believe the Bible) has given commandments that are at odds with each other at different times. Compare the laws of the OT to the NT.

          You still haven't answered my question.

          1. Shanna11 profile image92
            Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Mormons say non-mormons are an abomination?

            Hmm, I know I didn't pay very close attention some Sundays in church, but I must have missed the hellfire, non-mormons-suck rant. Strange. I love a good abomination story.

            1. 0
              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Some people seem to think so... I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in 5th Nephi though... big_smile

            2. 62
              passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Joseph Smith History 1:18-20:

              "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join."

              "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw• near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them;..."

              1. 0
                JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                "that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw• near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

                Do you know who the bold pronoun is referring to?

                Go back until you meet the first noun that fits: professors.

                This is talking about the professors, those who teach doctrines.

                Joseph was asking which church to join, as he had been visiting the local churches and talking to their preachers. Joseph was told that those preachers were corrupt.

                This doesn't say anything about all non-Mormons being an abomination.

                1. 62
                  passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225).

                  1. 0
                    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yup, from the Mormon point of view, God has a physical body, and is separate from Christ and the Holy Ghost. Trinitarians have the same view of Mormons, that they don't know anything about God.

                    What's the point?

          2. 62
            passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Did Joseph not say that his god told him not to join any other church because they were all an abomination?

            Jaxson i grew up mormon.
            The LDS always talk bad about the bible or try to discredit to make the mormon book look good.
            OT vs NT If you read the Old testaments you will see that it all was leading to the new. The promise of grace the promise of mercy the promise of Jesus, the promise of forgiveness all through the Christ.
            The coincide together.

            Responding to your ? You don't have to understand everything to be a man of God. no. But you should not change the word of God to make it say what you want it to say. like the scriture is shared above.

            1. 0
              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The churches. Not the practitioners. Meaning that the church(a collection of teachings and ordinances) were corrupted.

              This might just be an exaggeration based off of a bad personal experience. I spent years and years attending Mormon meetings, and never saw what you claim the LDS always do.

              If you read the NT you see it leads to other things too. Christ never said 'I'm leaving, this is it until I return'.

              The question was whether or not two people with different beliefs can both be Christians. I take it from your answer that you mean they can both be. So, you can only judge Mormons' sincerity and intent when you say they aren't Christians.

            2. Shanna11 profile image92
              Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              passingtheword- If I had a penny for every naysayer I ran across who tried to justify their words by claiming they were raised Mormon or were Mormon or whatever, I would be extremely rich.

              1. 62
                passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                ok?

        2. 0
          Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          *******************

          The Protestant Christians say the same thing.

  3. aka-dj profile image79
    aka-djposted 4 years ago

    Take Jesus Christ out of the LDS, and you still have Mormons.

    They deny the Divinity of Christ, what more doctrine is needed to show you that they are NOT Christian.

    Heck, the LDS promotes the Book of Mormon way more than the Bible.
    One guy told me that the Book of Mormon was God's revelation of all things lost since Jesus' day!
    How is that true. By saying that, they negate and mock the Bible as false. IE Book of Mormon supersedes it.

    I have no problem believing they are lovely people, but that is just a part of the equation. Nice people don't cut it with God. "For all have sinned and fallen short of His glory". Nice just ain't enough.

    1. 62
      passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      They have taken the true Christ out of it. My Jesus did not have multi able wives, kids ect.......

      1. bloggerbryan profile image59
        bloggerbryanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But Jacob did.

    2. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If you take Jesus Christ out of the LDS you have 'The church of of Latter-Day Saints'. Your little argument about that doesn't make any sense.

      What do you mean? Mormons believe Christ is the Son of God, Savior of the world, and the only-begotten of the Father.

      One guy? That's not the Mormon position on what the Book of Mormon is.

      They promote the Book of Mormon because most Christians already have a Bible. They want to share the Book of Mormon too. That doesn't mean they don't use the Bible or believe in it.



      They are both the word of God. They don't mock the Bible. This is what I'm referring to. If you go to lds.org or mormon.org you can look up what they actually believe.

      Even if they are wrong, they believe in Christ, believe in the Bible, so that makes them Christians. To say otherwise, you have to say that their interpretations of the Bible are wrong, and that they aren't sincerely following after Christ(because, as you said, none can do that perfectly).

      1. aka-dj profile image79
        aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'm happy for you.
        You seem sold out to the Church and it's doctrine.

        That's fine by me.

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm just looking for more viewpoints, and reasons why people don't consider Mormons Christians.

          My personal 'religion' is different than most... as I believe God interacts with all of his children through different religions. As such, I don't believe in 'one true' religion, or in one true book of scripture.

          Thanks for your comments though.

      2. 62
        passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Jaxson you don't worship Jesus Christ of the Bible
        Even Prophet Hinkey said it himself.
        "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).
        If you say you are like everyone elso, why does the church try to seperate them selfselves from everyone else?

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The 'traditional Christ'. Hinckley said they don't believe in the 'standard' interpretation of the Bible. You are lying saying that he meant they didn't believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

    3. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      *****************

      From Wikipedia

      The church's predominant theology is Mormonism, the belief that the original doctrines and priesthood authority of Christ were restored.

      The LDS Church considers itself to be a restoration of the church founded by Jesus Christ, which was later lost in the centuries after Christ in a Great Apostasy. Adherents, referred to as Latter-day Saints or, more informally, Mormons, view faith in Jesus Christ and the atonement as the central tenet of their religion.

      [2] LDS theology includes the Christian doctrine of salvation only through Jesus Christ,

      [3] though LDS doctrines regarding the nature of God and the potential of mankind differ significantly from mainstream Christianity.

      Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus, under the direction of Heavenly Father, leads the church by revealing his will to its president, whom adherents regard as a modern-day "prophet, seer, and revelator."

  4. pedrog profile image15
    pedrogposted 4 years ago

    Fantastic topic, witch nonsense is the right one, the older Christians (catholic, protestant, watever) or new Christians (mormons)?

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Unfortunately, you calling it nonsense doesn't necessarily make it nonsense.

      Let's just assume, for arguments' sake, that I have seen and spoken with God. He told me that the problems people have with the Bible, contradicting itself or science, are the result of mistranslation, misinterpretation, and corrupted text. He then showed me the correct text and meaning, and it aligns perfectly with science.

      Would you thinking that it is nonsense make it so? Would your belief make my experience any less real?

      1. pedrog profile image15
        pedrogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'll think that you are complitly delusional and need serious professional help, really, seek help!

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          This is my point. Whatever my personal reasons are, they mean nothing to you.

          Unfortunately, you also seem unable to participate in a thought-experiment, or to differentiate between one and reality.

  5. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Give me a break by definition you are none of the above. I do not care what you believe but they are not Christian or they would be called that. Now go talk to your 3 Gods and claim you can ascend to become one and read that other book you carry that is not the Bible. I am still waiting for the Mormon Church to show us all the tablets God re-portably gave you. Do not make me pull out the book called the Kingdom of the Cults, everyone will get sick of hearing all the facts. So why is the statue of John Smith facing away from your temple? You better get back to knocking on some doors I love it when you stop by.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Mormons only believe in one God.

      The Bible never states that it is a closed book or that it is all of God's revelation to man. In fact, the Bible didn't exist at the time it was written, it was just individual books and letters.



      You assume much about me, but that's ok. Do you believe the Bible? Can your church present the original manuscripts?

      1. rotskigrl profile image60
        rotskigrlposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        According to many Mormons, traditional church doctrine states that humans can become gods who procreate and populate as their Heavenly Parents before them. The fifth LDS president Lorenzo Snow stated, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." I would therefore argue that Mormons (in most cases) do in fact believe in more than one God, or at least that they believe that other Heavenly Parents can reach His status.

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not His status, and not become God. God is a title(and/or a name). God refers to our God, our Father, the one who created us. Nothing will ever change that, He is the only one.

          As to what the true potential we contain... Christ did command us to be as perfect as the Father, so it can be argued that the Mormon belief is in line with the Bible.

          Consider a father and his son. The father started a business, worked hard, grew the business, and taught his son as his son grew. When his son grows old enough, he will be able to work in the business, help manage it, and maybe take it over or go start his own business with what he has learned. Nothing will ever change his father's status as his father, and nothing will change the fact that his father is the founder of that business. It's kind of like that.

          1. rotskigrl profile image60
            rotskigrlposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before." -Joseph Smith
            I am trying to understand, if men may become Gods with the same power, the same glory, and same exaltation as God, who also create spirit beings and populate the earth, is the only difference then that God the Father was the first?
            I cannot reconcile in my mind that this agrees with Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols."

            1. 0
              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The key point is to become *a* god. If you became a god and created your own universe, you would be God of that universe. However, your Father, your God, would still be your God.

              God and Lord and all that in the bible are used as titles and names. They refer to the one who created us and our universe, the one to whom we owe life, and the one we worship. This will never change, even gods would still worship their God. Nothing would take away from God's praise or glory. In fact, when a son is successful, it speaks well of the father(in general). God's children becoming perfected brings more glory to Him.

              Does that make sense? You don't have to agree with it, but it's good to understand it.

              1. rotskigrl profile image60
                rotskigrlposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I think I understand where you are coming from, but I'm still confused with the fact that if a God were to create a universe he would become the God of that universe.. Are you saying then when you believe there is only one God that there is only one God of this universe, but possibly other equal Gods in other universes?

                1. 0
                  JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That would be my personal belief. These kinds of details aren't addressed in official Mormon doctrine, but it's what I have derived from my studies of the scriptures and my understanding of science.

                  As far as them being equal, just think of your father. Your father is your father, even though there are other fathers to other children in the world. They don't diminish the meaning of your father, nor are they your fathers smile

  6. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    I guess the real question is do you actually give a flying fig if a bunch of fundamentalists (usually baptists) consider you a christian or not?  As much as they would like to think so, they will not be making the decision if/when judgment day arrives.  Let them have their club and pat themselves on the back for how holy they are.  You know what you are and how your God feels about it.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm trying to collect information on different viewpoints.

      I actually probably care more about what people say about Mormons than Mormons do, as I have the highest respect for the Mormons that I know.

  7. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
    Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago

    Let me explain to you why Mormonism is incompatible with Christianity - but please recognize that I don't give a flip what anyone thinks about this, it's just facts.

    1. Mormonism teaches that you can become a God.

    2. In both Judaism and Christianity...and even Islam, there is only ONE God.

    ...therefore, as Christianity is a monotheistic religion (everyone knows this) - Mormonism is not Christianity.

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Christianity is only monotheistic if one takes into account the "trinity" doctrine.  (Which is not mentioned in the bible, but contrived by "scholars")

      Otherwise, Jesus and God would both be counted as deities.  The holy spirit is a little more vague, but would probably be a third.  That's a pantheon.

      Just saying.

      1. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Trinity is a perfect example of confusing interpretation with source. What one group(or many groups) believe a set of scriptures mean doesn't make that the only correct and acceptable interpretation. Most problems with Mormons = Christians comes from Mormons not agreeing with the 'traditional' interpretation, regardless of what the source says.

        I've never known a son that wasn't a different being than his father. I've never seen a person stand next to them-self. I've never seen a person's voice talk about them-self from a different location. That's why I like the Mormon interpretation, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three personages, making one Godhead.

      2. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The trinity supports a view of more than one God and that appeased the paganistic doctrine. catholicism upholds mary to be of divine status and that appeased the mother of heaven worshipers.

        We need to root out, even today, the catholic doctrines to make orthodoxy align with bible teachings.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't like you BO.  Let's just leave it at that.

          I don't need you to help me root out anything nor do I care what you feel like digging in to root out all on your own.

          Don't respond to my posts, don't quote me.  Seeing my name anywhere near your picture makes me feel vaguely ill.  There is nothing you could say to me ever that  wouldn't turn my stomach.  Seeing you type the word "God" or quote bible verses is actually the closest thing to an abomination that I have ever witnessed. I honestly think that watching someone wipe their butt on the pages of the Bible would be more of an honor to Jesus than having you vomit his words.

          So now I guess I am one more person that you can disrespect after I am dead because I said something that interfered with your God-complex.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image61
            brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I do not hate you nor do i have truths to say about you after you die.
            You do not even interfere with my belief in God.
            But the real issue here is not that i told my truth; its the impression left by the one i spoke about. Sorry you have taken such great offense but reality is reality, like it or not.

            It is not always about you.
            So i suggest you suck it up and think about the repercussions of death much more closely. You and everyone else, surely, does not want that kind of epitaph come judgment time.

            good luck

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It's about me when you are quoting me and responding to me.  I'm sure that upsets you since then its not about YOU.

              If you don't understand why what you did was deplorable, then the bible isn't helping you at all.  I don't care about your relationship with God, I don't care about your opinions.  I just don't want you speaking to me or replying to my posts.  You make my skin crawl.

              Or does it not matter at all whether contact with you is unwanted?  Is it so much to ask that you simply don't speak to me?  Or is it okay in your warped mind to force attentions on someone who you make physically ill? 

              Just for the record, if there is a heaven Earnest has 10 times the shot of getting in then an insensitive, abusive egomaniac who must be cruel to those in mourning to prove their holiness. 

              Like I said, just leave me alone.  There is absolutely no reason to reply to my posts other than to be sadistic.

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Just for the record, if there is a heaven Earnest has 10 times the shot of getting in then an insensitive, abusive egomaniac who must be cruel to those in mourning to prove their holiness. 

                10 times the shot. BO knows this is the case, too. If only he could
                be Earnest. I suppose I'd be that bitter and nasty, too if I could never walk in that mans shoes.

                1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Thats a nice opinion i suppose but lets look at the facts shall we?
                  Did he ever have anything nice to say about the creator or Jesus?
                  Did he ever give any christian the benefit of a doubt?
                  Did he post information, have it refuted and then go on like he didn't care?
                  Did he ever try to be understanding? loving? even sympathetic to any christian opinion or situation?
                  Did he ever do anything that warranted acceptance by God in his posts?
                  Did he ever cease to destroy any work of God no matter how few words he had to type?
                  The list goes on...
                  Will God embrace him and say "good work earnest, I love how you encouraged the saints in there".
                  Get the blinkers off your eyes.
                  My words were true
                  Get over it.
                  Try to do better than him

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No morals or ethics whatsoever, just pure hatred. Wow!

              1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                again, just your opinion and

                sound of the buzzer

    2. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Mormonism teaches that you can become a god, not God.(We are taking teachings outside of scripture here for clarification). There is, and always will only be one God(God is the creator), and one Father. If you become like your father in stature, does that diminish your father in any way? No, in fact, the success of the son reflects well on his father.

      Christ commanded us to be like the Father, in fact. There isn't an inherent discrepancy with the Bible, the discrepancy is with misunderstanding of Mormon teachings and comparing that to interpretations of the bible(teachings of churces), rather than comparing it to the Bible.

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hey, that's interesting!  I really like that reply!

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you. My belief is that if everyone were more open to others' beliefs, we would see an underlying, universal harmony among different religions from different nations and different eras.

          1. bloggerbryan profile image59
            bloggerbryanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            AMEN!

          2. brotheryochanan profile image61
            brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Being open to other religions is what got the OT people into trouble. Solomon was open to other religions and he backslid. God warns about having anything to do with other religions. Jesus never said, embrace hinduism, rally to dagon, attend pagan rituals. Jesus was very distinct about what to study, practice and preach.
            We don't need universal harmony, we need truth and correctness.

            1. 0
              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I didn't say worship in every religion.

              What about the billions of people who never had access to the Bible or teachings of Christ? You don't think God revealed truths to them?

              1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                God helps people enter into what God is doing if they sincerely want to be part of it. Theres a muslim testimony of a woman who was a bit confused about her muslim religion and one day out of despondancy she said aloud, "jesus help me". Well she was taken aback by hearing that name come out of her mouth and today she is a christian.

                I would like to have an answer to what about those billions throughout history but I don't think i do. I know that God does. He knows my needs he has to know others needs but i also know that He set up the OT scenario of worship, including sacrifice and then he sacrificed jesus on the cross and to just walk around this like none of it ever happened, to me is absolutely crazy. The cross of christ has to be so very important to God otherwise he would not have done that.
                So we will have to worry more about ourselves and others whom we come into contact with than untold and unknown peoples long dead eons ago.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Which is exactly what causes holy wars.

              1. lone77star profile image90
                lone77starposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No, Troubled. Ego creates wars, including the un-holy ones.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You mean ego like someone claiming Jesus parted a boulevard of snarled traffic just so they could get through? That would be enormous ego.

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                    brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's not ego, it may be a thought which stemmed from some odd traffic abnormality that opened a clear lane or some inclination that made a person turn down a different street and carve a few minutes off the journey.

                    But if God gets the glory, then it is not such a big deal is it.
                    What is christian reality, however, is that if God wants a person to be somewhere, that person is gonna be there even if God has to part a sea or teleport them. The real astonishment are those new eyes Jesus spoke about that rendered a person able to perceive the workings of God and the heart that enables a person to thank God even if he didn't have a thing to do with it.

            3. lone77star profile image90
              lone77starposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              @brother, perhaps what got them into trouble was the Jews following "religions" of those around them that used graven images, practiced divination and witchcraft, horoscopes and the like.

              We need to follow truth and light. But is your interpretation equivalent to that of God? Mine isn't and I don't think yours is, too.

              I have found great truths in Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Jewish mysticism (Kabbalah) and even Scientology. The key problems are those of non-spiritual trappings (graven images) and idolizing ego.

              1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                of course there are subtle differences. Jesus mentions some of these differences. Jesus intensifies the law and desires to get back to pure worship of God with good hearts in right standing.

                Idols are everywhere just the shape has changed. Money and the desire to live ones own life as they wish, are idols. True we do not put our babies on the heated metal idols of molock but we do have abortion. Some look to the stars for direction; astrology and God is not relied upon. Some think gems and trinkets can be imbued with some power to aid people in life but this is false hope and not God - just another weak substitute. There is no real difference between what the hebrews went through and what abounds today, the form is different but the end result is the same.

    3. lone77star profile image90
      lone77starposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus confronts his enemies with the comeback, "ye are gods."

      And Genesis 1:26 says that God created man in His own image and likeness. Baby gods.... Non-physical, spiritual and immortal sources of creation. Mind you, this isn't the Homo sapiens body we wear or the ego through which we view the world. This is the dead asleep true self (soul, Holy Ghost), within.

  8. CrazyGata profile image88
    CrazyGataposted 4 years ago

    Interesting topic. Although I am not a Christian myself.  I take it as default that if one believes in Christ is therefore a Christian.  In reference to be made as gods, isn't there a reference in the Bible that says so?

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It depends on interpretation. Personally, I think there are inherent problems in the Bible, whether mistranslation, accidental corruption of text, purposeful corruption of text, missing books, and books that shouldn't be there.

      This is how I see it. If I were God, all-loving, I wouldn't pick one small group of my children and give them prophets and direction, and ignore everyone else. I would do my best to help all of my children. For this reason, I am very open to scriptures other than the Bible, as it makes sense to me that God would speak to all nations.

      1. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But then you would not be speaking the truth. Truth does not have many paths but is only one path and that is the right one. No where does God omit anyone but gives all a chance to come by his one path.

        What you have said is that you will institute rules to the people of your country but if other ways are designed those are fine too.

        God purposed that all nations should come to him through the example of one nation blessed by God. As in the christian walk others should come to God because they see how God has worked in our life.

  9. MrMaranatha profile image87
    MrMaranathaposted 4 years ago

    I do believe that most Mormons are sincere in their belief that they are serving God... 
    The Problem is that they are teaching a "Different Gospel"... In very important Details... An Entirely Different Gospel which is NOT THE SAME as the Gospel given in the Bible.

    Someone implied that anyone who does not agree with them being Christians must be ignorant...  Far from the case.  Their are even internet sites written by their own people who come out of that Church... Their argument that people are just ignorant is false.. its just "Yah Yah Yah" to keep people who do not know better from hearing the truth.

    The more educated in Bible Theology and Church History and the original Doctrines of the Church one is, the more impossible it becomes to accept this type of "Other Gospel" which the Apostle Paul warned us about in his letter to the Church at Galatians.
    Galatians 1:6-9   
    6  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
    7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    If the Mormon Church was the same as the rest of Christianity and had the same message then they would not have spent the last 100+ years telling the world that their message was a New One to Replace the Old one which had expired.

    Theirs is a Replacement Theology and maintained that the Original Church  Jesus had Founded was extinct.. Apostate and Rejected.

    Something that Jesus Himself said would Never Happen!!!
    So either Joseph Smith Lied... Or Jesus did.
    You choose.

    Now.. Instead of them Searching out the Truth of the matter..
    Watch what happens.. two or three will state that "Yes they are Christians" and several more will attack this post...
    Or they will pretend it has not been posted, or remove the Post... or even try to have me banned for posting this TRUTH.

    They will normally automatically support the Dogma of their church and reply in the programmed manner.
    They will not Search the Bible (God's own WORD) for the Truth... they will read the BOM or POGP commentaries instead of the Bible which is GODS WORD!!!

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Not the same as the traditional understanding of the meaning of the Bible. Don't confuse interpretation with source.

      I said the majority of people who don't consider them Christians. Every church has people who leave it, that means nothing as to whether or not they are Christians.

      It can be said that the Catholic teachings departed from the Bible, so that anything based on Catholic interpretation of the Bible would also be a departure. You have to go back to the source.

      Why do Mormons have to be the same as the rest of Christianity? All churches have different teachings, otherwise they would just be one church.

      The Church of Christ was founded on prophets and apostles. What happens if you take away the foundation of a building? The Catholic Church didn't have that foundation.

      Did he, or is that just what you think he meant?

      It's a false dichotomy based on your understanding of the Bible, nothing more. There are more than one way to interpret the meaning of scriptures.

      Why don't you address specific problems, and I'll show you how it can be supported by biblical teachings? All you are doing is saying things with no source, no support.

      Mormons read the Bible, actually.

    2. Shanna11 profile image92
      Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Dude, I have read and searched the bible. Actually, I've probably read the bible more than I have the BOM.

      If Christians are all like you, (Mrmarantha), then maybe I don't want the rest of the world to consider Mormons Christian, because you are most certainly NOT filled with the love of Christ, IMHO.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Seriously, I can tell you the arguments don't work against these kinds of people.  I'm not Mormon, but I'm also not a conservative Christian.  They've been telling me that I'm not a Christian for months.  To clarify on the boards I go with "follower of Christ" as is separates me from the zealots that claim the title at the same time reminds them that I have absolutely no idea who THEY follow, but I know who I do.

        Would you like to join the "follower of Christ" club?  We accept all denominations smile

        1. Shanna11 profile image92
          Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You know, I think I will! Follower of Christ sounds a lot better and is much more simple than the ever increasing list of requirements you must meet to be termed a Christian.

      2. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think this is the kind of attitude(MrMaranantha, not Shanna) Christ was referring to when he said some honor Him with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him. Why would a Christian so attack another person claiming to be a follower of Christ?

        1. Shanna11 profile image92
          Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          1 John 4:20 Sums it up pretty well, I think.

      3. MrMaranatha profile image87
        MrMaranathaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It is hard to tell people things they do not want to hear...

        In response to two or three of you...
        The Roman Catholic Church is in some ways very much like the Mormon Church in its claim on being the only institution...

        It is also a false claim.

        They do have a legitimate root however that is not based upon False Prophets and Prophecies that have failed... Theirs goes back to Pre-Constantine Bishops... 

        But the important part of this is that the Roman Catholic Church, Like the Mormon Church did its best to REPLACE and Expunge the Original Church with its own Authority...

        The Dark ages were a rough time for all of the Christians who existed through that time.. What galls me most about your claim to fame.. Is that in doing so you spit on the graves of about 53,000,000 People who were burned at the stake and otherwise killed to maintain the testimony of Christ.

        There was Never a Complete Apostasy.  There were however Many Martyrs for the cause of Christ.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Or maybe it's just hard to listen to someone standing on a soap box screaming their own opinions as truth.  That's why I switch to the other side of the street when encountering street-preachers.  They always strike me as a bit buggy.

          But I'm sure you are completely right and will surely be the only one entering heaven. 

          Regardless, I'll just go on believing what my heart feels is true.  Strange people proclaiming "truths" on a writer's site forums aside.

        2. lizzieBoo profile image78
          lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Unfortunately MrMarantha, I'm sure you think you're right here, but I think it's worth pointing out that you're talking complete bollocks.

    3. bloggerbryan profile image59
      bloggerbryanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      MrMarantha you are taking your scripture quote out of context.  If you read the whole of Galatians chapter one.  The very first verse of the chapter says,
      " 1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)"

      then after your quote it says,

      " 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
      11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
      12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

      In context, your quote would actually defend the mormon position.  Mormons believe a person must have authority from god to be an apostle.  That last verse is the key to what Paul meant by false gospels.  It was a gospel of revelation.  One of the big problems many Christian churches have with mormons is that they believe in modern revelation.  Mormons don't claim to teach a new gospel.  They claim to teach the old one that was lost through the great apostasy.

      Interestingly one time Joseph Smith was asked what the difference was between his religion and the other Christian sects.  His reply was "We believe in the bible."

  10. Shanna11 profile image92
    Shanna11posted 4 years ago

    As a Mormon myself, I find this argument totally stupid. Sorry, but I do. We are Christian, and you need only sit in our meetings to understand that. We believe in Christ and God and study the bible. We believe in being baptized (Christ was baptized by immersion in the Bible, therefore, so are we).

    Being a Christian does not mean fitting yourself through tiny, man-dictated hoops. It means living and following Christ. 

    I don't see what it matters anyway. Just because an ignorant person or a bigot says I'm not a Christian doesn't change the fact that I do believe in Christ and in his atonement.

    I'm so sick of people telling ME what I am and am not as if they know me better than I know myself.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this



      Exactly, very well said!

      That's why I said most Mormons probably don't care as much as I do smile

      In all actuality, I have had a great many conversations with people that wouldn't have happened unless they decided to listen with an open mind. I've talked to many people that found Mormon teachings intriguing, and agreed with me that they are Christians, once they learned more about it.

      Let me ask you, what do you, as a Mormon, think about someone like me? I believe in the Bible and Book of Mormon. I also believe in the Quran, and believe there are many holy scriptures I haven't had the chance to find/read from other people. I think they all come from the same God, and all lead to the same place. Just as the teachings of the OT were different than the NT, God could give yet other teachings to people in Asia, Africa, Europe, America, etc...

      1. Shanna11 profile image92
        Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        What do I think about someone like you?

        Personally, I think people can believe in a lot of different things. Faith is a very personal things and people are so very different in the way they think and process things that one single religion may not be just right for them.

        I also think it's great that you are reading other religious texts. The more educated about different faith's a person is, the greater their tolerance and respect is. I need to find a copy of the Koran (Okay, I don't know how to spell that at all, but I think I've seen it spelled like that once) and read up on some other religions. God loves all his children and you can't force your particular brand of Faith on people.

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You know, it really makes sense to me. Obviously, there is a reason for adversity, or God wouldn't have put us here with it.

          So, if there is a reason for adversity, wouldn't it be interesting for God to teach different people in different ways? Then we would have all these ideas that can seem to conflict, but can also be seen to be in harmony. We can learn tolerance, we can learn acceptance, and we can learn love.

          1. Shanna11 profile image92
            Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Simply put, God is love. The overarching golden rule has been and will always be to love one another.

      2. bloggerbryan profile image59
        bloggerbryanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I completely agree with you.  God is the god of the whole world and he has been giving his words to everyone on the planet from Adam on down to today.  James E Faust, a mormon apostle said,

        "We believe that the fulness of the gospel of Christ has been restored, but this is no reason for anyone to feel superior in any way toward others of God’s children. Rather, it requires a greater obligation to invoke the essence of the gospel of Christ in our lives—to love, serve, and bless others. Indeed, as the First Presidency stated in 1978, we believe that “the great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” 25 Thus, we have respect for the sincere religious beliefs of others and appreciate others extending the same courtesy and respect for the tenets we hold dear."

        1. MissE profile image81
          MissEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Agree!!!  big_smile  Y'all rock!

  11. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    The analogy on here by some is that anyone who uses the bible as a base to their Religion can be called a Christian. In that case every Jew and Muslim is one two, maybe they should pick up a book of Mormon. Maybe start a new Religion holding a Koran in one hand and the book of Mormon in the other. You could knock on doors in Saudi Arabia and say no we only believe in the Koran but look at this book. Some angel swooped down and gave you the golden tablets to the Koran I bet that would go over real well. Still I bet someone will believe you even David Koresh had followers.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Jews don't believe in the NT. In English, when speaking about Christianity, it is generally understood that the Bible is the OT and NT.

      Nor do Muslims believe in the Bible, or the teachings of Christ contained in the NT(at least, not all of them).

      So that argument is irrelevant.



      Let me ask, are you Christian? If so, do you think that Christ wants you to ridicule other peoples' beliefs?

    2. Shanna11 profile image92
      Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Mormons use the Bible and Book of Mormon together and both help to form the base of our religion. Directly from one of the main tenants of the Mormon Church: We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly (For hundreds of years, it has been translated, things omitted, things changed...we can't be sure it's exactly right). We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

      Basically, the Bible is an account from the Eastern part of the world, and the Book of Mormon is an account from the America's. The Book of Mormon is called "Another testament of Jesus Christ" and serves as a further witness of the Bible.

  12. Disappearinghead profile image89
    Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago

    Being a Christian isn't about what you believe, but what you are. The term 'Christian' means 'Christ-like'. That is anyone who lives a life of virtue, purity and holiness, and can do a few healings and miracles whilst they are about it, in fact a veritable image of Christ Himself, is 'Christ-like', and therefore a Christian.

    Now hands up if you think you satisfy the requirements above..... Anyone....? Thought not. You might aspire to be 'Christ-like' but I bet you are not and have never met anyone who is.

    1. Shanna11 profile image92
      Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I passed my Chemistry final.... does that count as a miracle?

      1. Disappearinghead profile image89
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Mmmm.. Did it involve a couple loaves and a few fishes? smile

        1. Shanna11 profile image92
          Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          ....Do Swedish fish count? I ate lots of those while studying and I could have sworn they were multiplying. That bag was endless.

          1. 0
            JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You must be from Utah... I don't know what it is about Utah Mormons and Swedish Fish... Is that hidden somewhere in the word of wisdom?

            1. Shanna11 profile image92
              Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Haha, actually, I grew up in Brazil, Detroit and Georgia. I only moved to Utah last September to go to BYU.

              I actually hate Swedish Fish, but I needed something to snack on to keep from grinding my teeth in frustration. So I stole it from my roommates.

              Utah Mormons are weirder than other Mormons, which is saying a lot. It was such a culture shock for me.

              1. 0
                JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Especially BYU Mormons. Let's see, you've been at BYU for 5 months, so I'm guessing you also got married since then, or at the very least engaged? big_smile

                Most of my best friends are Utah Mormons actually, and my biggest heroes in life are Mormons... Not saying being Mormon makes you perfect, but there are some who have shown Christlike attributes to such a degree as I have never seen elsewhere.

                There's this guy I know, kind of well, but we weren't life-long friends or anything like that. He called me one morning, asked me to stop by his house, told me where his hidden key was, told me to get the keys to his van and drive it to pick him up about 3 hours away where his truck had broken down. I did so, and on the way back he kept trying to pay me for my time. He pulled out his checkbook, and I noticed he had $75 left in his account.

                Now, this guy drilled wells for a living. His wife was dying of cancer, he had 2 daughters in college, and one in high school. Two weeks earlier a hose broke on his drill truck, and the entire thing caught fire and was destroyed. I told him repeatedly not to worry about it, but when I got home later that day, I found an envelope with a check for $75 and a note that said 'Don't worry about us, I figure Christ would want me to pay you for spending your time away from work.'

                Well, I cashed it, as I didn't want to hurt our friendship. Then I went to the grocery store and bought food with it and took it back to them. Cooked dinner and the family and I ate it together...

                Anyway, I think I might be rambling, but any Christian who tries that hard to follow Christ is ok in my book.

                1. Shanna11 profile image92
                  Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Ahaha, you know Mormons pretty well!

                  But marriage is still on the far off horizon I'm in the dorms still, so I'm around the clueless Freshmen boys who are all going on their missions soon anyway. I'm moving off campus in April though, so all bets are off. However, Mormons guys are kind of shallow, according to what I've noticed. May not jive well with me.

                  BUT, I'm younger than most here. I'm a sophomore, and I just turned eighteen last November. So I've got a few more years yet.

                  1. 0
                    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Good for you smile I'll tell you one thing about Mormon boys from Utah... they have a lot of opportunity to 'grow up' and become men on their missions. Not saying that every RM is great, but it can definitely help. To be fair, it's difficult when you grow up in a 'bubble' community like much of Utah.

                    It might be sooner than you think though, that you see an RM across the room, and you both start walking towards each other singing 'I've seen that smile somewhere before! I've heard that voice somewhere before!' tongue

                    I watched Saturday's Warrior with one of my friends in High School... I'll never stop laughing at how cheesy that movie is!

    2. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, being a follower of Christ isn't the same as being perfect.

      First, the term Christian as found in the NT means follower of Christ.[1]

      The disciples of Christ were called Christians.[2]

      Disciple is from Mathetes, meaning a learner or pupil.[3]


      In truth, the greatest 'summary' of the teachings of Christ is contained in Matthew 5:48. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

      The interesting thing about the word perfect here, Teleios[4], is the root of the word, tello.[5] Tello means to start out for a definite point or goal. Christ knows that we aren't perfect, and we won't be perfect in our lives. But, the goal is to be as perfect as the Father.



      [1]http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/christianos.html
      [2]http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/11-26.html
      [3]http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/mathetes.html
      [4]http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/teleios.html
      [5]http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/telos.html

      1. Disappearinghead profile image89
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Perfect or not perfect, the verses you quote make it clear to me that being a Christian is about action, who we are. It is not about doctrines and beliefs.

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Correct. It's not about performing miracles or being perfectly virtuous. It's about trying.

          1. Perspycacious profile image75
            Perspycaciousposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            There have been many good posts in response to this question and if we are comparing "churches" why not look for what Jesus Christ did in terms of establishing his church and its structure.  It had several festures which I don't recall anyone here mentioning, and it is a good starting point for answering the question I Hubbed.  If you want a taste of LDS doctrine, go back to my earlier posted answer to this question.

  13. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    The Bible is based on the old Testament word for word the pure Orthodox faith does not accept the New Testament. Yes one has the right to defend their faith with the facts and facts do not ridicule the faith or religion of others. Its the facts that ridicule those who do not accept them. Even Christians screw up the facts from time to time. If your Mormon then stick to your doctrine and to your facts. If you our ignorant and the facts do not matter then your argument is worthless. If you change the Bible then you our not Christian. If you claim to recognize something other then the Bible then you our not Christian.  If your other book is in conflict with the Bible then you our a house divided and can not stand. I only ridicule your information if it is contrary to the facts, anything else is a lie. You can choose to be ignorant or you can be a liar that's up to you. I do not call you ignorant or a liar but can not deny what you make yourself out to be.

    1. Shanna11 profile image92
      Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I choose to be what and who I want to be. And I am neither ignorant nor a liar, thanks.

      1. 62
        passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think you are a liar, you are just sharing what you were taught. I was the same way.
        But I have to say that you are ignorant (unlearned) about the true Word of God, the Bible.

    2. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Many people have changed the bible. Translations differ, meanings differ, and some verses contradict others. A prophet has the authority to correct corrupted texts.



      The Bible never says that it contains all scripture, nor that it is a closed book. There is no biblical foundation for this claim.



      The Book of Mormon doesn't contradict the Bible.

    3. bloggerbryan profile image59
      bloggerbryanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Okay SanXuary, you seem to argue that mormons aren't Christians because the screw up the facts, but then you say that even Christians screw up the facts sometimes.  That doesn't make sense.  I'm really curious which religion do you subscribe to?

  14. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    My comments were never personal and I am not prejudice against Mormons. I just do not make the claim to be Christian and then tell a Mormon, Muslim, Buddhist or anything else for that matter that I am one of them and to accept my doctrine as one. I can not even do that from one church to the next. Stating the facts is not being mean and you do not need to be any faith in order to do that.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      'Christian' isn't a church. It is a follower of Christ.

      Mormons claim to follow Christ, that makes them Christians.

      However, some Christians try to tell Mormons that they aren't really, but that isn't their prerogative.

  15. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    OK, so throw your book of Moron away and come be one. If that's true you should not need it any way. If you do I guess you better brush up and include the Watch Tower, the non included agnostics and I am sure I could include a few others. Maybe we can read verses out of context together. I went to a funeral once and followed the bishops quotes from his Bible. Out of context they read give the church money and we will forgive him. I could spend endless days in dedicated study and show you the difference but in the end you will only deny it because your Earthly status is more important. I knew Mormons who admitted this was the case but how could they leave with so much invested.

    1. Shanna11 profile image92
      Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I hope for your blessed sake that you meant Mormon, and that was just a typo in that first line.

  16. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Yep with a capitol D

    tELL mEE yOUU didddddddddddddnt jUUUUSTSTT SAAAAAAEEEEEY tHAAAAATATATTATAT

  17. janesix profile image60
    janesixposted 4 years ago

    Predudice is NOT ignorance. They are two completely different concepts.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      A title can be considered the summary of a post. Did you bother to read my post?

      "... the majority of people who don't agree are simply ignorant to Mormon beliefs"

      Mormons are Christians, and Prejudice against Mormons in this regard mostly stems from Ignorance.

      Would that have been a better title?

      1. janesix profile image60
        janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You caught me, I couldn't get passed the retarded title to get at the "meat" of your ....whatever it is....that I can't bother with reading because I actually couldn't care less, nor understand how anyone actually could.

        You WIN!!!!

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Your life must be very busy if you consistently spend time reading and replying to material you couldn't care less about...

          If you don't like it, move on smile

  18. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    But ignorance allows prejudice to exist and truth will always be truth.

    1. janesix profile image60
      janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Stop trying to sound intelligent or wise. It isn't working.

  19. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    All I do is look at the facts. You claim Mormons are Christians and if I do not claim other wise then I am prejudice. Despite all the denominations all Christians agree on several facts that form their compliance. I did not personally claim other wise I just stated the facts and agreed with them. Regardless of anything I agree with or disagree with in the Bible and regardless of if I believe or not the facts, they our written and I can not change it. What do you want me to do, call you one so I can get past the facts? I can be a Mormon or I can call myself something else, unfortunately I can not be in both clubs because they are different. Its honestly nothing personal and I can pick all day. The Mormon Church opposed gay marriage should I claim that you our prejudice because you our a Mormon? Of course not because I am opposed to it as well. I am in favour of Civil Unions because it does not contain the Word marriage and protects the Church from having to violate the protocols of the Bible and its beliefs. Most of all Civil Unions are already imposed on us. Go live with a guy for several months in some states and you get to take half by law. If your agenda is different then why ask the question on here? It is not a forum unless you only wanted for people to agree with you or some other agenda. I believe in free will and most of all honest choices.

  20. Lady_E profile image81
    Lady_Eposted 4 years ago

    There are many denominations who claim to be under the umbrella of Christianity.
    (You can read b/w the lines)

  21. Smokes Angel profile image74
    Smokes Angelposted 4 years ago

    if all Christians would stop arguing over stupid things and unite the world would be a far greater place

    1. lizzieBoo profile image78
      lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The argument is about truth. People get hot under the collar about that kind of thing.

      1. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus certainly did. God in the OT certainly did.

        Truth is paramount

        and there be those who find it because they allow the truth to shape them and because of that they get more truth and so the ball rolls.

        any person who wants to know God must first invite God - however innocently or naively and God will reveal himself - in any other situation there is no guarantee of finding the real God, except that God answer peoples hearts.

        1. lone77star profile image90
          lone77starposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Amen to that, brother.

    2. lone77star profile image90
      lone77starposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Good point, @Smokes Angel.

      The key problem there is ego. The really sick thing about ego is that most people think it's them. It's only a false self masquerading as them. This is the "self" that Jesus said we must let die in order to gain everlasting life. And that's why it's so difficult.

      Arguing usually comes from ego. @Brother has a good point about "letting" God into our hearts. That kind of humility is what subdues ego.

  22. janesix profile image60
    janesixposted 4 years ago

    boring

  23. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago
  24. Moezart de Foen profile image61
    Moezart de Foenposted 4 years ago

    I Did a little research(sorry knowledge geek) and i found that they dont use the Bible except on rare occasions. Strike 1. They also belive that, like catholic saints, that there are prohets who are Holy, just like God; even though in the Bible it says that all men(women too) of God are saints. Strike 2. And last but not least they belive in a simmilar but diffrent afterlife. Its like a twisted form of reincarnation. Strike 3, sorry buddy ure out. The way i see them is the same way i view the catholic faith(remember im non-denominatinal). There on the right track, just lost a little. BUT THEY STILL BELIVE IN JESUS CHRIST, OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. SO DON'T GO DISSIN THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this



      That's just not true. Mormons spend just as much time on the Bible as they do on the Book of Mormon in their classes. More, actually. One year, in one class, they will focus on and read through the OT together. Then the NT the next year. Then the BoM the next year. So, the Bible gets twice the study time as the BoM.



      What are you referring to? If you could be a little more specific.



      Nothing like reincarnation. Mormons believe in resurrection, just as Christ was resurrected. I have a feeling you got your information from a strongly anti-Mormon source.

      So wait, are you saying they are Christians but they're just wrong?

      1. 62
        passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This is what the LDS think about the Bible
        1 Nephi 13:28-29 …The bible causes many people to stumble.

        Journal of Discourses Vol.2p75...The Bible is not a sufficient guide; the words contained in this Bible are merely a history of what is gone by;

        The Is the LDS views of the Bible

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not just taken out of the Bible, taken from the Gospel. The gospel principles of priesthood authority, personal revelation, and prophetic revelation were lost. The church fell away from having apostles and prophets as its foundation within the first 100 years. This verse states that people stumble because of what is lost.

          If you read this in context, you would see that the meaning is that scripture alone is never enough. We need personal revelation. Note the preceding sentence:

          "There is a Spirit that is ever ready, and points out, under varied and conflicting circumstances, the very course which the servants of God should pursue."



          The LDS view of the Bible is that it is the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly.

          1. 62
            passingthewordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            which scriptures were not translated correctly? Its funny that all the scriptures that Joseph said the were wrong are the bases of The lds faith.
            I see that he changed the True Word of GOd to make his own religion.
            He transformed the the True Word of GOd to fit what he wanted.

            Talk about miss translation. Look at the book of Abraham. If you look at the Papyrus Scrolls:where it was translated from it has no mention of Abraham. it wasn't event in the same time period.
            Joseph took what he wanted and fooled his followers.

            1. 0
              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, I don't know... how about John 1:18(No man has seen God at any time) and Genesis 32:30 (... for I have seen God face to face and lived). There are many scriptures on both sides of this issue... did God mean for his perfect word to teach that no man can see God, while teaching that many men have seen God?

              If the bible can have 1 mistake, it can have many, and I could point out many more other than the can-God-be-seen issue.

              There are problems with that. 1 - we don't know if that's the right papyrus. 2 - It isn't complete, and what is in the Pearl of Great Price doesn't fit with the explanation Egyptologists have given. Much of the imagery is wrong for it to refer to what they say it refers to. 3 - Even if Mormonism isn't the 'right' church doesn't mean it's not a Christian church.

              4 - Joseph would have been a stupid man to do what he did, and go through what he went through, for a con. Perhaps you think he was a masochist, and enjoyed being tarred, feathered, beaten, imprisoned, losing his children due to persecution, etc...

      2. Moezart de Foen profile image61
        Moezart de Foenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        To JasonRaine
        In my oppinion yes. any1 who belives that Christ died for thier sins and rose again is a Christian gerneraly speaking. now wheather he or she is a good christian or not is another story for another day. And for my reserch typed mormon in google and did a quick overview of their mormon.com site and typed based on  my preivious knowledge and wat i read. But ure right i should do more reserch. ill write on it later and get back 2 dude, thx for letting meh know. its not good to write on something u know little about.

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks. If you have any questions I would be happy to answer, as would prob. any Mormon on this site.

  25. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    All Christians are wasting their time arguing with these people. Their only truth is the continued deception of others into believing their lies and nonsense. They are not even here to argue but only to condemn Christians who disagree with them. This is nothing but the same game they play when they knock on your door. A complete waste of time and proof that God did not intend to save everyone, especially those who lie to themselves. This is not a forum but just another promotion and they can convince themselves all day if they want.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      'These people'?

      I'm not a Mormon, so what do you mean by 'these people'?

      But, responses like yours are what I was looking for. Ideally, I would like to know the truth behind your prejudice against Mormons though...

    2. Moezart de Foen profile image61
      Moezart de Foenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      SLOW DOWN DUDE, God is love. The entire reason me, you and every1 else on this pathetic peice of rock exists is becuase he wanted some1 to love. If some1 u love needed help wouldn't save them 2. (if not, ure not a good friend man, u got to work on that). We we also told by Jesus himself to go and make disciples of EVERY1, mormans and all.(mathew 28:16-20). So were not "wasting our time arguing with these people", were wasting time doing wat Jesus told us to do.

  26. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    The verse said make disciples in all nations and that is my point. We write whatever we feel like saying to continue to distort the facts when we deny that the facts even exist. Their is nothing that said we must save everyone. In truth most people are not going to be saved and its no ones job to save anyone, they can only save their self. Its called free will and it requires the recognition of sin in order over come it and to mature spiritually. Few of us will ever live long enough to ever mature and God has a special place for those who deceive the children of this World.

    1. Moezart de Foen profile image61
      Moezart de Foenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You're right we can't save every1, BUT GOD CAN. Since we have God in us, we have to try. if you look further in the verse it says and I quote, "(verse 19)Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (verse 20) and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”(Once again Matthew 28:19-20) Because God loves us he doesn’t want us to go to that place. He gives us the choice to make the right decision. But he always calls us back, and in his time we will see him. It’s up to us to listen to his call pick up the phone and go.

  27. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Then you would know that a Mormon is not a Christian. They are Mormons by choice.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That's like saying Catholics aren't Christian, they are Catholic by choice.

    2. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      ************

      They are Christian. Check Mormon out on Wikipedia or anyplace and you'll see

  28. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Not quite, because they still believe in God and Mormons do not. Have the Mormons not told you about three Gods yet and hey if you do what they tell you , you can be one to.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Mormons believe in one God, as in an office, the Godhead. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

      Trinitarians believe in one God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three personages but one in substance or whatever.

      There really isn't that much difference, but if you believe in the Bible you have to somehow reconcile that the Father is God, and Jesus is God, but the son of the Father, and the Spirit is God.

      So, Mormons do believe in God.

  29. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Yes they are Catholic by choice and Christians are Christians by choice and Mormons are still Mormons by ---------------choice

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Catholics are Christians...

      'Christian' isn't a specific church. Baptists are Christians. Methodists are Christians. Mormons are Christians.

  30. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    You our finally catching on           I am so happy

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What are you talking about?

  31. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Deborah found out being a Christian is in a dictionary. A Mormon walks around with a Bible in one hand and a book claiming that 3 of the tribes of Israel came to America. John Smith of European descent then claims the book of Mormon based on the native races of America who do not even recognize the freak Mormon church are you kidding me. Then you go on with some blah blah crap on your Idea of the trinity claiming that you believe in it. OK do you believe in Jesus Christ as your savour the one the Holy Trinity Father Son and Holy Ghost. all one being no answer but yes or no.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You really don't seem to understand what Mormonism is about... it doesn't claim that it is based on native american races. In fact, the BoM actually claims that there were other people here already, so it was probably more of a small group assimilating into a larger group. Especially if you look at the timeline and the sizes of armies.

      There is no reason to think that Native Americans would recognize the Mormon church.



      I don't believe in the Trinity, as the Trinity isn't in the Bible. It's one possible explanation for concepts that are in the Bible, but it isn't directly in the Bible.

      I believe in one God, which is a plurality. In other words, an office. In that office, there are three distinct personages, the Father(with a body), the Son(with a body), and the Holy Spirit(spiritual body).

      The Bible doesn't say the Trinity is all one being.

    2. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      ********************

      I didn't have to look in a dictionary to find Christian because they are on the forums wherever you look. I did look up Mormon

      I can tell you are a Christian by your attitude.

      There is no trinity there is one God Jesus was a man. Born.

  32. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    We all knew you would do anything but answer the question and we all know why. yes or no
    answer it.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I said I don't believe in the Trinity.(if you can't understand, that means 'no')

      Show me where it says in the Bible that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one being.

  33. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Then sorry, you our not a Christian because you must accept it to be one and it is not my choice or yours. This conversation is over. So go be a Mormon and stop claiming to be something you are not. We do not hate you for it and there is no prejudice its free will and you are not one because you chose not to be a Christian.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not a Mormon...

      Can you show me where the Bible says that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one being? If you have to believe that to be a Christian, then it would be in the Bible.

  34. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    If you really want to know then pick up a bible and read it and ask yourself how one can exist with out being the other. They can not be separated and I can not sit here and recite scripture to you because its to much to look at on a computer screen. You can not read a false book of Mormon and destroy your reasoning. A great Archaeologist travelled to the Holy land to prove the Bible and discovered the truth that it existed. He then went to South America and found nothing. In his life time the lies of such knowledge continued after he searched for it and he wrote his story and released it after his death. There was no proof for the book of Mormon but all the proof was in the Bible and reading it and knew a house divided can not stand and one book could not exist with out the other existing first and so the other book could not exist at all. Even an Atheist could determine what was true and what never existed to begin with. With one book the other book can not exist at all you pick the book to throw away.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Come on SanXuary, you really want to claim that belief in the Trinity is required to be a Christian, but you can't provide one verse to back up your claim?

      I've read the Bible many, many times. It's not in there.

      The Father and Son can be, and were separated. The Father spoke from Heaven while Jesus was in a river. Jesus stood at the right hand of the Father. Jesus is the Son, nobody can be their own son.

      Give me a verse, back up your claim.

    2. Onusonus profile image87
      Onusonusposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If I may, Meso-American archaeology can not even come close to being compared to Middle Eastern Archaeology. They are two completely different dynamics. On the one hand you have civilizations which have never been lost, and on the other you have practically zero written history, and a multitude of lost languages and cities which may never be recovered, or at least have yet to be deciphered.
      It is also apparent that even in the old world there existed societies in areas which were previously thought without question to be nonexistent.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But there is still a problem, OO.  The Mormon bible mentions several metals including brass, iron, and steel being used by the Nephite and Lamanite societies.  Also many animals which weren't here for the last 13,000 years or so, or never at all, are mentioned in the Book of Mormon.

        Why is there no evidence of these things ever being found?

        1. 0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

          History has been full of new discoveries that were previously thought impossible.

          The Olmecs worked with iron as early as 1000 BC. Brass could be interchangeable with Bronze in thinking or linguistics, and steel we have learned has been used much earlier in some parts of the world than previously thought.

          People used to ridicule Mormons(some still do) for claiming to have gotten reigious texts from gold plates, but every year it seems there are metallic plates found all across the world. Some bound, some sealed, some buried in stone boxes, like the plates of Darius.

          Who knows what we'll discover tomorrow?

          Even if Mormons are wrong, they are still Christians though.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That is a logical fallacy because they are making absolute claims without a shred of evidence.

            1. 0
              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Claims of belief. You don't have burden of proof to claim a belief.

              Mormons encourage others to make their own decision, not to believe what they say because of logical argument.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Then, the belief can be considered unfounded and irrelevant.



                lol

                1. 0
                  JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It can be considered personal and subjective.

                  Thought-experiment:

                  Many, many years ago, there are 2 people. John lives in a hot, dry country, which has never seen snow. Jane lives in a cold, mountainous country, with abundant snow.

                  Jane travels and meets John. She tries to tell John about snow, but he has never seen it, and doesn't believe her.

                  Is Mary's experience valid?

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So what? Many delusions are personal and subjective.



                    False premise leading to a logical fallacy. John can travel to where Jane lives and see the snow for himself.

                    Was that the best you could muster?

          2. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Nope, both brass and copper were mentioned in the Book of Mormon.  If the writer confused the two then what else did he get wrong?  And a link to the Olmecs using or working with iron would be helpful to your claim.  Even the iceman had only copper to use as material for an ax over 5000 years ago.  The link, if you please.

            1. 0
              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              With translation, often one word is used to refer to different things. Here are some examples regarding metals:

              http://www.biblebasics.info/colours/col6.htm
              http://concordances.org/hebrew/5178.htm


              Here's one link for iron workmanship.
              http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct= … 0xEE_5y7Pw

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Got anything by reputable sources?  The link concerning the carved stone beads with iron content wass apparently done by BYU and therefore is questionable as to being a truly scientific study.  Besides, carving stone with iron content is much different than forging steel or cast iron into useful objects. 

                Using Mormon studies to back up Mormon claims helps nothing at all in this discussion.

                1. 0
                  JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Using a BYU study doesn't necessarily invalidate it. If you care to, you can do your own research on Olmec iron beads, or you can reference the citations in the article.

                  The BoM doesn't reference using iron as an everyday object, in fact it barely mentions it as all. Metals are listed as precious things.

                  Steel would probably be something like the steel in certain places in the bible, which isn't true steel either. It's hardened bronze, if I recall correctly.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The first iron smelting was by the Hittites perhaps as much as 2000 years before Christ was rumored to have existed.  They worked in both copper, nickle and iron. Of course the anonymous writer who wrote Genesis under the pseudonym of Moses claimed these metals were around shortly after the creation, which basically nullifies the truth of the bible even more than is already known.

                    There was no confusing the two metals as there was no reason to do so.  And no, I do not rely on anything concluded by the Mormon church or any of its preferred or financially supported educational institutions.

        2. Onusonus profile image87
          Onusonusposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Actually the 'conventional wisdom' that metal was not used in the New World prior to A.D. 900 cannot now be sustained. Copper sheathing on an altar in the Valley of Mexico dates to the first century B.C. Furthermore, in 1998, a discovery in Peru pushed the earliest date of hammered metal back to as early as 1400 B.C.
          "Much to the surprise of archaeologists, one of the earliest civilizations in the Americas already knew how to hammer metals by 1000 B.C., centuries earlier than had been thought.
          An ABC news story titled  "Early Central Andean Metalworking from Mina Perdida, Peru," had this to say;
          "Based on the dating of carbon atoms attached to the foils, they appear to have been created between 1410 and 1090 B.C., roughly the period when Moses led the Jews from Egypt and the era of such pharaohs as Amenhotep III, Tutankhamen and Ramses. 'It shows once again how little we know about the past and how there are surprises under every rock,' comments Jeffrey Quilter, director of Pre-Columbian Studies at Dumbarton Oaks, a Harvard University research institute in Washington, D.C."

          Archaeologists also have found that the ancient Olmecs indeed had a knowledge of iron, silver, copper, and Gold.

          As we can see archaeology, like all other sciences, changes over time as we unearth more information. And just because we have not yet discovered something does not prove that it does not exist, it only proves that there is much more out there that we do not know about than we realize.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hammering copper was not rare in the New World and that is why I didn't mention the metal in my previous post.  Many of the mound builders used hammered copper for ceremonial decorations and I've posted examples in some of my hubs.

            As far as steel being used. or even primitive cast iron or brass,  I'd like to see a link to such use in the pre-Columbian Americas if you have one.  You didn't address the many animals mentioned in the Book of Mormon either.

            1. Onusonus profile image87
              Onusonusposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I did however address brass and iron, never mind that that was addressed. But also I addressed everything else as well. re read the last sentence.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I fail to see where you addressed the lack of animal remains from the period claimed by your novel the Book of Mormon.  Even though there is plenty of evidence of the Clovis culture from over 13,000 years ago--a rather small group of people at the time--there is absolutely none from your claimed great civilization which purportedly used all sorts of metals and had herds of horses, sheep, oxen and other species we've found absolutely no evidence of.  Bogus!

                Joseph Smith was a well known con man before his sudden revelations and this is a matter of public knowledge.  Spin that if you can!

                1. 0
                  JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Not everything mentioned in the Book of Mormon is mentioned as being abundant. Many of the metals, and animals, were considered rare and precious.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Why would animals be rare if they were indeed used as herds for food?  And why would they suddenly disappear after the demise of the mythical civilization?  You are indeed grasping at straws to explain obvious falsehoods contained in the Book of Mormon.

                2. Onusonus profile image87
                  Onusonusposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Clovis man, the rightful heir to the Western United States, or at least Lubbock Texas. First found in Clovis New Mexico. A city named after the Catholic king of the Franks. He definitely lived thousands of years after this culture died out, and through the whims of the station master's daughter we would other wise refer to them as "Riley's Switch Man" vise "Clovis man".
                  This culture was discovered in 1930, had someone told you they existed previous to this archaeological find you might have laughed in their faces. Because what you are suggesting is that we have found everything there is to find, when clearly we have not.
                  So which do you think the Clovis people would have preferred to be called? From a scientific standpoint.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The designation "Clovis" is merely a name used for the group of people who first inhabited this country.  Contrary to your post, Clovis "type" projectile points are found all over the US with the most controversial site now being the Topper site along the Savannah River near Augusta SC.  Claims made by the leading archaeologist there suggest the site had been occupied perhaps 50,000 years ago.  Whether this can be proven or not is still to be decided.

                    But there is still nothing whatsoever to show any of Smiths ramblings about any other great civilization--such as he addressed in his fictional novel-- had any basis in fact.  Did you even read this link at all?  It's a very simple list of scientific impossibilities claimed by Smith.  Feel free to dispute them if you dare.

                    http://www.whatismormonism.com/

            2. LewSethics profile image61
              LewSethicsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Raw copper used to be found laying on the surface of the ground.  Thats where we get the name 'Copperfield" from, from the copper that was laying around in the fields.  That copper could be hammered without any need for smelting or furnaces.  That is why primitive societies all started their metal working technologies with hammered copper.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                This is common knowledge to anyone familiar with Native American culture and is usually the first type of metal working learned by any primitive culture.  But the claims made in Joseph Smith's partially plagiarized novel mention using swords and other implement which could only be produced by smelting or casting certain metals. 

                Smith did not do his homework before creating his fictional account,  End of story!

  35. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    I love you Deborah if you said Mormons are not Christians but then again I just love you I have no idea why.

    1. 0
      JoelMcLendonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, she's easy to love, I feel the same way.

      The difference is that I respect her too. Try it.

  36. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Not me I look deeper and wow its al-right to joke but your serious- weird.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Have you found a verse for me yet?

  37. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Your not here for the truth or you would look it up yourself. Go visit any real Church and they will show it to you. I know this site only has an agenda to confuse the lost with their lies and their deceptions. I am not here to play your games but to make you find out for yourself. Look at all the countless people on this site who have brought you the evidence that you decided to ignore any way. Your forum stinks and serves only your purpose.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "Real Church"?  Define such if you are capable!  lol

    2. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Have you found a verse for me yet SanXuary?

  38. 59
    Brianna Stuartposted 4 years ago

    Religion is so controversial! I have head that Mormons pray to someone other than Jesus Christ, but I honestly don't know to be honest.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Mormons pray to God, the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ.

  39. 59
    Brianna Stuartposted 4 years ago

    Religion is so controversial! I have head that Mormons pray to someone other than Jesus Christ, but I honestly don't know to be honest.

  40. 0
    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago

    Randy, I want to see if you can accept truth, even if you don't agree with it.

    Can you concede that the Book of Mormon doesn't necessarily contradict history as far as worked iron is concerned, since I have pointed out that iron in the BoM isn't referenced as a smelted material, but as ornamental?

    Can you concede that Hordeum pusillum could be what is referred to as Barley?

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Truth is what I always agree with, not conjecture




      Sure, if you can show the fictional people in the novel were using the same iron and nickle ore to contrive their trinkets. 



      Nope, why would the plates get it wrong if they were god inspired?

      1. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Your complaint was that the BoM mentions iron, but iron wasn't used in the Americas around that time. I proved you wrong. Now you poison the well in your argument.

        It's not wrong. Botany wasn't as developed at the time. Plants weren't divided into the KPCOFGS organization we have today. You think it is wrong to call Little Barley 'barley'?

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What time frame are you referencing?  When DID the tribes mentioned in the BoM supposedly reach the Americas?  Using iron and nickel ore by drilling holes in it is a much simpler process than smelting iron or making brass.  So what time period are you claiming the events in the BoM took place?  Before or after the Pleistocene?

  41. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    He can not accept the truth and my only disagreement is that Mormons are not Christian. I do not even care about his false faith. In fact I could careless if he ever believes in anything else. I am not trying to convert him to anything. If he was a Christian I would have to change my faith. So take your Mormon butt and walk up into the front of every Church and make your claim. Go tell those people that your a Mormon and a Christian no different then them. Go tell them what you believe and then tell them your a Christian. No amount of scripture will prove anything to this person and no amount of evidence will matter either.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      SanXuary, all I asked you to do is provide one scripture from the Bible that proves your requirement for the belief in Trinity.

  42. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    I will not continue to play your game or feed your poison God Machine. You have already admitted that you do not believe in the Trinity. That is one of the Universal requirements to be called a Christian. There is nothing to argue, please go be a Mormon and stop claiming to be a Christian. No Church claims to be a Mormon in your temples and you decided to leave the faith of the Church long ago. We do not care and we do not want to be associated with your false teachings. If anyone is confused you are. Did you know that all Christians believe that Jesus is a part of three fold Spirit of one and only one God. Because we believe that we have the title as Christians. To be one you have to believe in that as well. You should be claiming that you are a Jehovah witness, Scientologist or Adventist instead. I think their faith is better then yours and not to pick on them because they accept their own faith and do not make the false claims to be something else. I still think that you have more in common with them to make your claim. Even some Satanist believe in the Trinity perhaps they are Mormon? I do not believe that but it makes about as much sense as your claim does. I do not need to argue scripture to make this point so leave the faiths of others alone.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And yet, you can't provide a single verse of scripture that says it is a requirement? The idea of Trinity is an idea of interpretation, it isn't directly in the scriptures. Believe me, I know.

      If you really believe so strongly in that requirement, just prove it with the Bible.

  43. 0
    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago

    Honestly, I think this is how you think it should have happened if it was true, Randy:

    Nephi lands in America. His people start to build shelters, and discover a grain with seeds that resembles Barley. Nephi pulls out his iPad, jumps on the Wikipedia, and starts comparing dimensions, structure, seed/blade count, etc... and determins that rather than this being Hordeum vulgare, which they are familiar with, it is Hordeum pusillum. Nephi finds out that this grain is also edible, and writes in his journal:

    And we did work all manner of hordeum pusillum...

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Please, I certainly don't need someone who believes in a con man to tell me what I should think.  I suppose the Nephi docked their motorboats and unloaded their horses, oxen, and sheep and said "Wait till Joseph reads about this"!  LOL!

      What pure desperation!

  44. 70
    SanXuaryposted 4 years ago

    Your unable to argue your own verses out of the Book of Mormon, why would I use a book that you contradict and do not believe in? If I was a Mormon I would be disgusted with your claim on here.

    1. 0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What are you going on about? Mormons believe the Book of Mormon and the Bible. I just asked you to proved biblical support of your claim that one must accept the concept of Trinity to be a Christian.

      I believe the Bible, so give me a verse that proves your point.

      Nor do I see why you would be disgusted if you were a Mormon... I'm friends with many, many Mormons and none of them are disgusted with me...

  45. Daniel Carter profile image90
    Daniel Carterposted 4 years ago

    If a person says they are Christian, then why do others have a right to judge them as non-Christian?

    That's what it amounts to when it comes to Mormons being Christian.
    They do believe in Jesus, and they do accept him as their Savior.

    Yes, they have lots of other beliefs that Christians find weird or objectionable. But really, the whole issue of polygamy is moot, when the BIBLE, not the Book of Mormon, is the book that set the stage and the example. And mainstream Mormons these days are NOT polygamists, only the break offs, which the mainstream Mormons believe are apostate groups.

    Anyway, I find it so completely odd that other Christians feel they have the right, duty and obligation to define who can be a Christian and who can not, when being a Christian based on a personal belief and relationship with Jesus Christ. If Mormons belief in that concept and claim to be Christians, then that's pretty much the end of the discussion. The rest is arguing about dogma and doctrine, which is what all Christians are best at doing. And I don't find that Christian at all.

    That would make Mormons pretty much like all the other "Christian" religions.

  46. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Plates which you need special glasses to read, all over the world? Glad I brought flotation devices cause itsa gettin' deep. Have you read the true story of the Jedi Knights...that's a good one.  Joseph Smith? Con man. Brigham Young? Opportunist. Christianity? Deluded and diluted. Paul was no better than Smith or Young. Roman agent.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I agree.  It's truly sad that con men, no matter the cult, can prey upon the fears of ignorant people and can convince them of anything, no matter how ridiculous it may be. 

      But most of these marks are started out young and take up the same con from their parents and so on down through the generations.  It all depends on where you happen to be born and what religion your parents inherited, in most cases.

      If Onus had been born in the middle east he would most likely be Muslim now and vilifying both Christians, Jews, and Mormons.

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Muhammad dug into the Mount trying to touch the hidden Ark of the Covenant, suceeded, and was the true inspiration fot transporter technology aboard the Starship Enterprise...oopsie.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Along with his 95 wives!  lol

  47. debugs profile image71
    debugsposted 4 years ago

    I agree that Randy has a POINT! smile

  48. Perspycacious profile image75
    Perspycaciousposted 4 years ago

    To me the title "Christian" applies if the baptized believer in Jesus as the promised Messiah (Christ) seeks in their daily life to do as Christ would do to the fullest extent of their knowledge of Jesus Christ, the prophecies of his coming, the records of his teachings, and the testimony of him through the Holy Ghost (Comforter).
    What sectarian name is given to a Christian or taken on by that person, to me says that their understanding and search of what they consider to be holy scriptures and sacred teachings best conforms to their personal beliefs, not that they have made themselves to conform to those sectarian beliefs.
    I suppose that makes me a Protestant by aligning myself to what I most closely believe, rather than aligning my beliefs to a given fath's doctrines.
    It seems true that just as in heaven there are many mansions, so it seems that on earth Christianity has many mansions.  If one rather than another brings out the best in you as a professing, and practicing Christian, that should be your home church more than any other.
    A teaching from The Talmud in this regard states that "The test of a man's life is not his theology but his life."
    May we each be tested and found worthy.

  49. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Joe Smith dug up antiquities on Iroquois land....could we please have our feast platters back?

 
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