jump to last post 1-18 of 18 discussions (223 posts)

Evil

  1. Claire Evans profile image90
    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago

    Is Satanism or the Abrahamic religions, i.e, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, the root of evil in the world?

    1. davenmidtown profile image86
      davenmidtownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The root of evil comes from within the hearts of man. It is the world that provides the temptations but it is always the choice of man on how he/she will accept the temptation.  Do we strike out in anger? Do we do harm? The religions that you have listed provide a path for both answers... but again... that path is the choice of man.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Religions poison everything, more specifically, the Abrahamic religions. And, although they may not be the root of ALL evil in the world, they comprise the vast majority as they have shaped and molded mankind's thoughts and actions for centuries.

      Without those religions, we may very well find other evils, but we would rid the world of the greatest of all evils proportionally to the number of believers who embrace them.

      And, if we do find other evils that control the thoughts of men the way the Abrahamic religions do, we would be best to rid ourselves of those as well.

      1. Quilligrapher profile image91
        Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Some people, I have noticed, look at religions through tinted glasses and see only poison. They choose to view religions in a dim, filtered light so they will see just enough to justify their narrow notions. It is not surprising that they see only what they want to see.

        Others, I have noticed, are able to look upon religions and see that they have contributed both good and bad in the world. Ambitious men have used religion as a tool to sway people, gain power and keep power. Many people have done hideous things in the name of religion but religion itself is only a tool. As such, it can be both constructive and destructive.

        In our digital world, this moment is distinctly different from the one just passed and the one soon to arrive. Religion, however, offers an analog vision of reality that acknowledges relationships: people as bothers and sisters in the human family; patterns that add levels of meanings to both the material world and human life; the transition from then, to now, and to the future. Religion often speaks of life as a journey thereby linking the context of “now” with how far we have come and, perhaps, more importantly, to where we are going.

        Religion encourages a sense of local community that provides an environment in which human relationships can flourish. Religion makes massive contributions to the common good of society on a whole through charitable activities and social actions. It feeds the hungry, heals the sick, comforts the dying; it gives care and refuge to the needy. Religion adds other perspectives to social issues that often serve the common good.

        The extent of faith based initiatives, like soup kitchens, shelters, clinics, food pantries, psychiatric centers, schools, etc., far exceeds the best efforts of non-religious groups. Some atheists place very little value on feeding and serving the needy. An article titled “Do we need Atheist soup kitchens?” on the web site furiouspurpose.me offers this excuse, ”the fact that we support gender equality and women’s rights, is in my view much more important, and sends a much better and clearer message, than serving pea & ham soup at Chez Dawky.”

        It is sad some see only the bad in religions and deny the good. I can understand how some troubled men are incapable of understanding intangible religious teachings like faith, hope, and charity. I just do not yet understand why they think this disability makes them superior.

        (1) http://furiouspurpose.me/do-we-need-ath … -kitchens/

        1. Captain Redbeard profile image61
          Captain Redbeardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Always good to read your words sir! Very clear cut and effective.

        2. Disappearinghead profile image89
          Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          QG that has to be one of the most eloquent rebuttals to fundamentalist atheism I've seen on these forums ever. Well said that man smile

        3. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Bullocks. Of course, believers will say anything to defend their faiths, however one only need look at recent developments with Obama's moves on abortion to see the mind-boggling stupidity the religiously brainwashed are spouting, comparing him to Hitler and the US a Nazi state, claiming there is a war on religion and how these idiots state they would rather die for their convictions. Even Santorum and Gingrich are stateing we should be following "Gods laws".

          This is not human nature, this is religion brainwashing people to say and do very stupid things.

          This is what we actually see, not what we want to see.



          There is nothing constructive about religions. We can do anything constructive without the need of religious fantasies involved.



          Pure gobbledegook and utterly false. Religions only serve to divide us and only contribute if they can gain converts. Selfishness is at the core of religions.



          Completely false and dishonest statements.



          lol

          1. Disappearinghead profile image89
            Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You are a bundle of joy today aren't you ATM. smile

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It isn't pleasant when folks have to lie all the time to defend the very same faith that makes them lie.

              1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That's a bit harsh. Someone believes something. Doesn't mean their lying.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It is when they continue to argue their beliefs in light of facts and reality. Believing and then admitting it's just a belief based on faith would just be delusion.

          2. Quilligrapher profile image91
            Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this



            Hi Troubled. I thank you for your interest in my post and for drafting a reply. I believe you have some good reasons for believing as you do and I hope you will share them us here in this forum. I am anxcious to learn from you.

            You respond, “bullocks?" Do you think my opinions are a knee-jerk attempt to defend another person’s faith? Your first sentence, like many in your reply, is a false assumption that exhibits a propensity to view your perceptions as more valuable than open-minded research aimed at finding meaningful facts. You see, ATM, I do not practice a religion and I do not have faith. Therefore, I am not a religious person who will say anything to defend my faith.

            I do, however, use my intellect to examine religions and I find that they have contributed both good and bad in the world. Others, with a limited understanding of human nature, take events they consider “stupid” and use them to form opinions that ignore other examples of how religions have made positive contributions. I would call that seeing only what you want to see. For example,
            Like many rational observers, I see some of the good aspects of religion. Some folks are so passionately opposed to “religious fantasies” that they can not admit, even to themselves, that those “religious fantasies” might also be doing some good in the world. Denying the good makes it easier to attack religion. A more reasonable stance might acknowledge all of the good things produced by religions and also provide sound, grounded evidence, beyond personal opinion, to identify the weaknesses inherent in “religious fantasies.”

            When I listed how religions contribute to the common good of society, your very unscientific reply was…
            Here is a quote from the Hoover Institution at Stanford University: “ Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.” (1)

            It would seem the source of my “pure gobbledygook and utterly false” claim is a scholarly study. Please examine it and comment if you are so inclined. Will you also give us an opportunity to see and comment on the source of your “pure gobbledygook and utterly false” claims?

            Do you also have a problem with my final statement? You replied with: “lol.“  A smiley face strikes me as a poor substitute for an intellegent response, especially in a dialog between rational adults. What do you think? Please tell us why you think as you do so we can all learn something here.

            Thank you, again, Troubled, for your comments. I am looking forward to reading your first hub.

            (1) http://www.hoover.org/publications/poli … ticle/6577

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Your figures are a little misleading.  91% opposed to 66%, but those figures drop to 71% and 61% when the "giving" is for non-religious use.  Meaning that a good portion of the religious giving is to maintain their church, pastor, etc.

              I didn't find a sample size or methodology, but I wonder if the numbers 71 and 61 are even significant - that isn't a large difference in a small sample.

              1. Quilligrapher profile image91
                Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am very grateful, Wilderness, for your "contribution." lol I agree with your observation and its impact.

                The data reveal a link between charitable giving and religions that has a positive effect on society. In the words of Dr. Brooks, "It seems fair to say that religion engenders charity in general - including nonreligious charity."

                I thank you for adding to the discussion.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Religions don't contribute anything good that couldn't be contributed without them. I'd be happy to hear anyone provide examples of what religions have contributed that could not have been contributed without them?



              Such as...?



              lol So, because religions have been the root of so man problems in the world, religious people are more apt to contribute monies in order to help solve those very same problems the created. Hilarious logic there.

              And, where exactly do secularists NOT donate monies, to religious organizations, perhaps? Do those figures take into account per capita or the fact that many atheists don't state they're atheists for fear of retribution from believers? Are atheist organizations allowed to run "tax free" like religious organizations?

              What about this very long list of secular charity organizations? Are they in your figures?

              http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Secular_charities



              No, it would appear you have missed a great deal of 'study' in your response.



              But, it's perfectly acceptable for you to insult me with my userid and then say I have a disability...

          3. nasake profile image61
            nasakeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Can i just point out that it is human nature to kill in order to gain selfish ideals... yeah, religion has taught nothing.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Really? And, you find all humans are out to kill you any chance they get because it is in their nature to do so. Hilarious. lol

        4. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          berkley, harvard and yale universities were started by religion. Hospitals depicting names of saints were started by religion.

          Say what he will, those narrow glasses have got him where he is today.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol You see, believers will say anything to defend their faith.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              you do

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Lol

                You know this is very true.  I've noticed that many atheists will go to the nearest page on the Internet to support their views without checking if the sources are sound.  They regurgitate the same Zeitgeist nonsense and when refuted, they say, "But they still existed before Jesus, the concept is the same".

                If this is not saying anything to justify their viewpoint, I don't know what is.

              2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well said. How long did it take you to come up with that very clever and well though out response? Or, should I say childish, kindergarten playground response.

                I know you are, but what am I? lol

      2. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        ****************************

        Could you give me an example of this? And if possible some proof as to why you think this.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          lol Good one!

    3. fpherj48 profile image79
      fpherj48posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There is no ONE root to ALL evil.  It would be foolish to even think this.  Evil begins and ends with Man....the rational-thinking of all animals.  What contributes to creating evil in man?  This would require a Volume of tomes, without a doubt.
        Radical beliefs and behaviors in ANY so-called "religion" has clearly made man evil....murderers, thieves, dictators, insane behaviors....all in the neam of religion/God?   OK.   As soon as we all subject ourselves to full lobotomies, I guess we'll swallow that radical crap and act nutty too.
      Small-minded or worse, closed-minded individuals( or groups) who insist on focusing their entire being onto ONE History book (Bible, Koran, or any other book written by any human claiming to be "inspired" by Higher powers), demanding that ALL people believe ONE tenet for ONE reason/purpose, choose to blind, bind and force another to BE! DO! BELIEVE! ACT! SPEAK!! as they think it has to be...because it is the ONLY way.......well, they're simply the brain-damaged, mis-informed, easily lead, bent and molded.  Entertaining at best....Dangerous at their worst. 
      Evil?  It's this sort of ignorance, intolerance, hatred and violence.  That's where most evil begins, festers and continues.
      Why do you ask such a question, Clare?  You wouldn't be itching to start another sensless, ludicrous, useless debate about your RELIGION again, now would you?  Save yourself, Clare and please.....spare the rest of us.  Time you fold up your soap box and find another mission in life.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Excuse me, you didn't have to visit this forum where I posted my question.  You did that out of your own volition.  I can debate about whatever I want pertaining to religion.  Why are you getting so hysterical? It is so unnecessary.  You are very much welcome to leave the forum if it offends you so much.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Are you sure you fully understand the definition of the word hysterical? I've seen you use it out of context several times now.

        2. Cassie Smith profile image75
          Cassie Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Clair, you're really much better off ignoring hubbers like her.  You have every right to post whatever topic you want to post about.

          As for your question about evil.  I feel it can come from within and it can come from without.  There's a lot more that needs to be looked at.

    4. PhoenixV profile image79
      PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It could be argued that the United States has air superiority in cases because of stealth aircraft like the F117. On missions they will fly low and slow. They fly slow because this reduces their radar signature. The more speed=more engine which equals a higher radar profile. Plus it has other design features that make it stealthy. The reason why it is effective is because it doesnt exist on enemy radar.

      If there was some supra-natural evil force It wouldn't be unreasonable that they would be using stealth. Like the f117 they would still be operating amongst us but we would be unaware of it to certain varying degree. If they were "existing" on a lower plane of reality ie or eg a one dimensional or two dimensional reality or possibly a multiple or near infinite dimensional reality, they wouldn't be residing in our reality per se and so by their very nature they would be hard to detect. It would be possible however to "reason" that we could possibly detect strategies, tactics, motive or intentions.

      Recapping- if a lesser dimensional intelligence was intentionally using stealth it would be very easy to say they do not exist, wouldnt it.

      This by no means would excuse individual human culpability, however. But would it explain what we see in the world?

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You lost me on that one. Are you saying that Lockheed is an agent of Lucifer? 

        Or was that just a round about way of saying our defense contractors stole technology from hell?

        1. PhoenixV profile image79
          PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What I am saying is that dismissive claims, one claim or another are unfounded.

          A radar operator would not be so naive to think that since there are no blips on his radar, that it proves that no enemy aircraft exist, nor if they are even flying right over his radar installation.


          Every night I hear what sounds to be coyotes yapping. Sounds like dozens of them, yet I have only seen 2 or 3 in 40+ years. Coyotes are less intelligent than humans, I am assuming, yet by their nature, they are very stealthy. So, successful covert capabilities do not necessitate high intelligence.

          The question remains; are humans being influenced by evil in the form of some outside entity. Claims of "they are" or "no they arent" would need to be supported with some kind of argument, for or against as opposed to reductio ad ridiculum or appeal to emotion, strawman or what have you.


          F117's flying over head is stupid, since I do not see them on my screen. Or F117's are just "magic thinking" because I have the best radar and I am an intelligent radar operator. No? Later these same stealthy F117's main job was to destroy radar installations, making all further operations possible, without the need to be as stealthy.

          So, thats what I would be my approach to looking for as far as evidence or an argument. Does it seem that there is something outside trying to limit detection capabilities? Or does it look like a possible concerted effort to undermine anyone that suggests that it could be happening or destroy credibility of anyone that would simply inquire?

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I get what you are saying, but I see conversations that blame evil on 'satan' no less trifling than having someone tell me they aren't responsible for their behavior because they have an addiction.

            Transferring blame is at epidemic proportions in our world. If you do something wrong.....it's your fault. End of the line. That goes for everyone.  There is no spiritual force that twisted your arm to do it.

            1. PhoenixV profile image79
              PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yet I had already prefaced my statements with "This by no means would excuse individual human culpability"

              meanwhile your argument falls into this category does it not?

              Does it seem that there is something outside trying to limit detection capabilities? Or does it look like a possible concerted effort to undermine anyone that suggests that it could be happening or destroy credibility of anyone that would simply inquire?


              When you say: "There is no spiritual force that twisted your arm to do it."

              You dont offer proof of that claim. But it does appear that you are making an emotional appeal to lay blame on humans (which would be accurate) yet use that emotional appeal to negate the possibility of an outside entity without proof.

              Correct?

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I don't know. I wouldn't classify it as an emotional appeal. Am I missing something? Take responsibility for your own actions seems pretty straight forward from where I'm standing.

                I tend to side with the atheists. You say 'show proof'. If something has never been proven to exist.....that's proof enough for me. Would you ask the same if I said dragons do not exist?

                1. PhoenixV profile image79
                  PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Lack of evidence is not evidence.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You are exactly right. That condemns both sides of the argument to idle speculation. Don't you think?

      2. oceansnsunsets profile image88
        oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Phoenix, I agree with your recap there, and yes, it WOULD explain what we see in the world, at least to some degree.  Not much does. You make a point, but are using "high math" for my brain right now, haha!  I get  your drift though, very cool analogy.

    5. Claire Evans profile image90
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Here’s my comment regarding the subject.  Many world leaders hide behind the Christian religion while actually being Satanists.  Naming oneself Christian gets one accepted and is easier to dupe the masses.  People think that Satan is a non existent entity, an entity contrived by religion to enslave them but our very own world leaders worship him in various forms.  Most people think that “In God we Trust” is in reference to the “Christian God” when in fact it refers to Lucifer.  The eye in the pyramid is the most applicable symbol in Freemason which is a society that involves the worship of Lucifer.

      Man is never closer to God than when he kneels, spiritually naked, at the altar of Freemasonry.

      Masonic Services Association
      M.S.A. Magazine

      Here are some of the quotes of Albert Pike which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Freemasonry’s great “Architect of the Universe” is Lucifer.

      • “LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light ... ? Doubt it not (p. 320)!”

      •Manly P. Hall’s book entitled THE LOST KEYS OF FREEMASONRY. This quote by this 33rd Degree Mason is another source for this belief, because he wrote: “When the Mason learns the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. ‘

      http://www.plim.org/Freemasonp1.htm

      “We have therefore, in the 24th degree (Masonic Ritual), recited the principal incidents in the legend of Osiris and Isis … Everything good in Nature comes from Osiris… Osiris was the image of generative power. This was expressed by his symbolic statues … Osiris and Isis were the Sun and Moon … and is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges … Osiris was invoked as the God that resides in the Sun”  (Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike, pgs. 474-477: Freemason and Illuminati member)

      See the site for the Freemason pyramid with the all-seeing eye.

      http://crossbearer-brian.tripod.com/id193.htm

      The all-seeing eye is actually that of Horus. Horus was represented as a falcon, master of the sky, sun and moon. The sun was believed to reside within his right eye, while the moon was in the left. Ancient Egyptian culture propounded that the bright star (sun) and the satellite (moon) traversed the sky as Horus flew across to protect his people.

      Wedjat or the 'eye of Horus' is an Egyptian symbol associated with the age-old battle between Set and Horus. According to mythology, they refused to relent and every move made by either one culminated in a new set of challenges. It was believed that Horus and Set finally challenged one another to a stone-boat race. However, in this particular race, Horus had an edge, since his boat was actually made of wood, but disguised to resemble stone. Set's boat sank and Horus won the race. Legend has it that Set officially handed over the throne of Egypt to the victor. This myth culminates in the unification of upper and lower Egypt.

      The 'Eye of Horus' represents the sun. Horus was worshiped as the most important god of Egypt. He was given more than fifteen distinct forms, which were divided into two groups or clans, solar and Osirian. Those who believed him to be the son of Isis worshiped him as Osirian, while others worshiped the 'eye' of their favorite solar deity. The Eye of Horus symbolizes protection. The 'eye' stands for indestructibility that aids rebirth. Most funerary amulets in ancient Egypt were shaped to resemble the Eye of Horus. The symbol is still revered as 'the vessel of wisdom' that increases man's ability to view the world with truthfulness.

      http://www.buzzle.com/articles/egyptian-god-horus.html

      And so Satanism extends into the music industry.  Here’s a confession:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEXUzCgn-nM

      Video series on the various entertainers who have sold their souls to the devil.

      http://www.theindustryexposed.com/

      Many celebrities show their allegiance to Satan and often do so in front of our eyes without our knowledge.  When someone covers one of their eyes with their hand or something else, it is meant to represent the all-seeing eye of Horus.

      Watch the video:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhG7Ri7q … plpp_video


      Rihanna was once asked why she covered her eye on her album cover and she replied it is because she is a devil-worshipper.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUwvkzTkmGY

      Now back to the world leaders.  The American elite gather at a place called Bohemian Grove annually and make mock human sacrifices (real ones can’t be proven) to the owl deity Lillith.  I’m sure most know she is Satan.  Watch the Cremation of Care ceremony:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hszzdj0K … re=related


      1981 News report about Bohemian grove - YouTube

      Bohemian Grove news report:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDs9Vs2iYM

      We also have the nefarious Skull and Bones Society at Yale University with members of the like of John Kerry and Bushy Jnr.  Here is an outdoor initiation.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF1N3nyiHRM

      Why are so many people worshipping Satan? Why would they perform black magic to conjure up an entity that does not exist? Would Satanists like Aleister Crowley write books on how to make sacrifices if it served no purpose? What is this aversion to Jesus?

      Want more information of the Satanism of our world leaders?

      Lucifer god of the Illuminati Part 1


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ipWYLdiag


      Well, I’ll leave you with two frightening videos that suggest demonic possession.  See how the girl goes crazy during an exorcism in Jesus’ name in the second video.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4n9vK0_mdk




      So perhaps it is time to stop blaming religion and start blaming the devil who has led the whole world astray.

      Hopefully you will see how I got my views on evil.  And no commenting until all the material has been viewed.

      1. mischeviousme profile image61
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I didn't watch the videos, this is why;

        1) people tend to not want to be accountable for their actions. Christians blame it on an outside source, honest people take the rap.

        2) The only evil I know, is the evil I am capable of.

        3) The only evil in this world, is the evil people create.

        4) Human nature is selfish, hateful, greedy and warlike. There is good in humanity, God/gods have nothing to do with it.

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So you say Christians aren't honest? Are you saying that all non-believers acknowledge their transgressions?

          You don't know what you are talking about and should have refrained from commenting because the reason why you think this way is because you didn't consult my sources.  You should ask yourself WHY our world leaders worship Satan. 

          Stop living with your head in the sand.  Why do people want to live in denial? I know this world is scary but it's better than being hood-winked.

          1. mischeviousme profile image61
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No, I just see alot of scapegoating. As an adult, I have to be accountable for my actions. I just don't see magic fairies as being responsible for right and wrong.

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Entities being the source of right and wrong does not mean they need to take the blame for our own actions.  We have free will and we have to face the consequences when he do wrong.

            2. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Satan is tempter friend.. not the controller.

              He can only lead people if they LET him.

              People that do mean and evil things are servants of sin. They serve the father of lies and murder, Satan.

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                If Satan really did exist, it could be argued that you empower him by your belief in him. You give him greater reign by perpetuating the belief that he leads people astray. It's almost as if you are a servant of Satan, when you think about it.

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  OH MAN!    now I have something else to think about.

                       My brain is full, I will have to forget something in order to have enough room to think about that.

                2. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, that is again, respectfully.. incorrect.

                  His purpose is DECEIT. 

                  If it is true He exists.. (And he does as far as me, the Bible, and Jesus Christ are concerned)

                  Then to deceive people it would be useless to tell the truth.. lol

                  Lies bring more lies. If he wants more lies, why would he tell you he is here???

                  For example: ever heard, you're only digging your hole deeper?

                  That's because one lie multiplies to many lies.

                  It would be kind of hard for atheists to deny God if Satan shows his face...

                  Reading this thread shows that people don't think it's Satan's fault already, because they don't even think he exists.

                  If they knew he exists they would blame him for evil, but if he doesn't exist people start accusing each other....

                  Deceit....

                  smile

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You seem a decent fellow, so I'm going to be honest. It was kind of cute, in a bizarre way, to read Claire's posts. This 'the sky is falling and it's all Satan's fault' is a little retro and quaint...if one person is doing the dance. Two of you attempting to tag team the insanity doesn't fall into the category of cute. It's more in the range of creepy.

              2. mischeviousme profile image61
                mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I would contend then that people are satan, for most truly only serve themselve's.

          2. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol lol <--- coveted double laughie award

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Claire, you are starting to worry me. That post is so far removed from reality that it serves little purpose to argue with such delusions. Time to get a grip. wink

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey Emile, speaking of being far removed from reality, I thought to get back to about my conversations with the Pentecostal's in Duncan BC and the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada regarding our good friend brotheryochannon. They said they knew of him but he didn't attend their church, but attended a church that is not Pentecostal, and were deeply saddened, and I quote, that "he is in fact not being a good witness for Christ".

          They know of him and wish to remain far removed from him.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh. Well, that raises my opinion of pentecostals. I don't know any personally; but the videos that have been posted here coupled with the posts  about interpretation of the Bible made me assume they were all a little off balance.

            That whole scenario that caused you to contact them was wild. I had never seen such an ugly side of religion until that thread. I always assumed that was the way some secretly thought, but I was shocked that anyone would have the audacity to post such hatred for the world to see.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, they were definitely off balance, but that just shows how off balance our good friend is and the fact they don't want anything to do with him. Scary.

      3. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        ************************************

        Blah Blah Blah.......roll

        When did the Jews or Islam hide behind Christianity?   NEVER

        LOL lol

      4. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        ************************************

        Blah Blah Blah.......roll

        When did the Jews or Islam hide behind Christianity?   NEVER

        LOL lol

        Satan is the part of a person called the shadow self. It's the part of a person who tempts us.

        1. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Biblical references:

          Luke 10:18

          John 8:44

          smile

          1. 0
            Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            ***********************

            Really Funny and so informative---

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No, i find no humor in the scriptures.

              And, yes, the Bible is very informative.

              smile

              1. 0
                Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                **********************

                How do those scriptures relate?
                I think once again you don't understand scripture

        2. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I never said anything about Jews and Muslims hiding behind Christianity.  I say Satanists do that.  I don't mean the layman Satanist who think it's cool to claim he is one.  I'm talking about world leaders like George Bush who says he is a devout Christian yet belongs to the Satanic Skull and Bones Society.  Hitler, too, is an example.  He harped on about his Christianity when he actually was a Satanist.  And the ultimate example is the Vatican.  They ARE the church yet have a Satanic agenda.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol Bush was pirate? Yo-ho me mates! Shiver me timbers! Arrrr!

            1. Disappearinghead profile image89
              Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Long John Silver plies the seas looking for an innocent ship with plans to kill the crew and steal their gold.
              George Bush crosses the sea looking for an innocent country (Iraq) with plans to kill the population and steal their oil.

              Mmmm, you may ave a point ATM.

            2. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You think the Skull and Bones originated with pirates? lol

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Putting words in my mouth, now? Where did I say that, Claire?

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So then why did you joke that Bush was a pirate? How about accusing him of being a Knights Templar? Come on, you DID think it originated with pirates! lol So tell me, where did it originate from? Answer that without googling.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Who cares where it originated?

      5. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with most of what you said Claire.

        It's pretty obvious he is the father of lying as Jesus put it. He isn't fresh off the wagon..

        Nevertheless, not all can be lied to so easily.

        smile

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks.  Just curious, what don't you agree with?

          The truth of the matter is that the truth is so horrifying that I would put my head in the sand like most people because I would not have the courage to deal with it.  Only my faith in Jesus Christ helps me to cope with these things.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh dear.. lol, I didn't mean I disagree with any of it.

            Just meant I haven't had time to cover it all. wink


            And I agree. I've ran from God, head in the sand, thing before because it's unbearable. But He got me. I know what Jonah feels like, that's for sure...

            And to your last sentence.. I couldn't have said it better myself...

            smile

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, it's a lot of material. smile

              God sees a potential willing spirit and that is why you eventually found God.

      6. Disappearinghead profile image89
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I may have said this before, but Lucifer isn't Satan. It was Origen in the 3rd century who first made that one up. Thus Jesus and the apostles never once believed that Lucifer was Satan. However, that's probably because 'Lucifer' doesn't actually appear in the Hebrew scriptures.

        I may have also said this one, but just because a group of people worship Satan with all their heart, it does not logically determine that he exists.

        Furthermore, no amount of Egyptian mytholical beliefs in weirdo eyed gods can make those gods actually exist either. Heck they thought the Earth was flat.

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Then you don't know Satan then.  We comes under MANY names.  Baal, Beelzebub, Lillith, Baphomet, etc. 

          Alice Bailey was a student of Freemason and Satanist Helena Blavatsky founder of theosophy.  She even set up something called Lucifer Trust that is a publication company which the United Nations uses funnily enough.  It was changed to Lucis Trust because of the controversy of the name Lucifer. 

          This is what Blavatsky once wrote:


          “Stand in awe of him, and sin not, speak his name with trembling … It is Satan who is the god of our planet and the only god. … When the Church, therefore, curses Satan, it curses the cosmic reflection of God.”


          They believe Satan or Lucifer has come to liberate mankind from the tyranny of God and to give them Christ Consciousness.  Funny how she goes on about not sinning when the objective of the New World Order is to enslave.

          You think a group of people worship Satan? How about most of our world leaders? Quite frankly, I do not know why they do that should it yield no results.  What is the objective of performing human sacrifices? And I suppose black magicians are black magicians because it sounds cool.  Lol.

          World leaders believe they are the reincarnation of these gods as Pharoahs were in ancient Egypt.  You have got to ask yourself why all the secrecy regarding these secret societies.  Why do world leaders hide behind other religions and not say they are Satanists? If it is because of an outcry it would cause, then why associate themselves with Satanism at all?  It's also staggering that people like George Bush and Ahmedinejad pull the hand signal for El Diablo or the Cornuto.

          http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20 … _satan.htm

          Why are all these people doing it? You think it is because they want to say, "Rock one!"?

          You want to know where the symbol comes from?

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisbOL55 … re=related

          The moon goddess Diana. 

          What to know who is a moon god?

          http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … phomet.png

          Pray tell, why are these world leaders worshipping something so horrific? Does this horrific thing enable them to enter wars without a conscience?


          I'll tell you this much.  No country is really opposed to one another.  They are all dedicated to forming a one world government.

          Did you by any chance watch all the videos except the "industry exposed" one that is just way too long to finish anytime soon.

          The material has been posted for the viewer to make up their own mind.  No one here can claim they were never warned.

          1. 0
            jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Usually such talks are heard only in psychiatry wards.
            On second thoughts, they are saner!

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Have you watched all the videos?  If not, how can you dismiss it as crazy?  It's like Christians condemning the theory evolution to the pit of hell without looking at the evidence.

              1. 0
                jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Paranoid schizophrenia!

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm so sorry that you possess zilch courage. 

                  "There more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Horatio

                  "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." - Albert Einstein.

                  1. 0
                    jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Its Good that you posted the one who started a major religion- relativity!
                    Claire Satan is a concept, and the world is not driven by concepts. You think the world, except you and probably vector, is driven by a concept the ancient ignoramus invented, that falls more in the line of schizophrenia.
                    Businesses are done for profit, not to benefit Satan.
                    And whether its satanists or Muslims or Christians, It's all the same -supernatural and hence illogical and to an extent, idiotic.
                    And its not a bad idea to bring the whole earth into one nation, but the problem is its impracticallity now, but all changes were ideas first.
                    You have a delusion Claire, otherwise THINK before you post.

            2. 0
              Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              ***************************

              It sounds as though she is into conspiracy theories, and believes everything she reads on the internet.

              She is totally confused and shows a lot of fear. This type of person is always looking over their shoulder because everyone in her mind worships Satan, except her.

              I can't say it's 100% true but it seams that way.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Acknowledging the influence of Satanism in the world doesn't make me afraid.  In fact, the people that refuse to look at the facts are afraid. What did I say that alludes to me thinking everyone worships Satan? There'd be no good in the world if that wasn't true!

                Glad you concede it isn't 100% true about what you say about me.  That's some honesty.  Truth is, when people start lashing out at others it is because they are insecure and afraid of the truth.

                1. 0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  ********************

                  Take it easy Claire.I'm not lashing out at you.
                  Don't be so paranoid.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Deborah, I wasn't referring to you.  I said "people".

          2. Disappearinghead profile image89
            Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The Lamborghini Diablo - Diablo being Italian for devil. Does that mean Lamborghini are Satan worshippers? No it's a cool sounding name. Similarly at work I was working on a proposal for an logistical support system for a programme to equip the UK armed forces with new communications encryption equipment, project Cipher. I wanted called the support system Logistic Users of Cipher, or Lucipher. I thought it was funny, but programme wanted a much more boring name.

            Claire you obviously love conspiracy theories; perhaps man did not actually land on the moon, George Bush planned 9/11, and the Egyptians were visited by aliens, but  conspiracy theories are only taken seriously by the tin foil hat brigade.

            Most western governments are secular and I can't imagine for one minute that our David Cameron or any other European leader seriously believe all the hocus pocus you tak about. Though it might make for a good novel.

            Experience in Europe with Greece being bankrupt, Portugal, Ireland having bail outs from the IMF, and worryingly Italy being in big trouble, all confirm to those that are sane that a unified European currency cannot work, let alone a world one. Disparate week and strong economies cannot be tied together and thus a united government could never work either. The Soviet Union collapsed, so the republics all split off to become independent states. Yugoslavia split into five states after a horrendous war. Scotland now wants independence from the UK. History shows that ethnic groups want self rule, and over time, they get it. There will never be a world government, it cannot work.

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The Lamborghini company probably is owned by Satanists.  Most businesses are.



              No one claims that Bush planned 9-11.  He's too stupid for that.  Have you actually researched the claims of aliens providing advanced technology?



              Have you perused all my material?



              You don't get it.  Things are DESIGNED not to work in order to achieve the end goal.  It's called the "problem-reaction-solution".  In other words, create the problem like an imploding economy, get the public to panic and rebel, and then provide the solution by introducing a world economy.

              Let me give you a few quotes about the New World Order:

              "We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries." David Rockefeller [June, 1991]


              "This present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for too long... We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis, and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller speaking at the United Nations Ambassadors' dinner. [Sept. 23, 1994]

              Strobe Talbott
              Deputy Secretary of State under Bill Clinton
              In the next century (now), nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single global authority and realize national sovereignty wasn’t such a great deal after all.

              UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown
              We need a global New Deal -- a grand bargain between the countries and continents of this world.

              obert Mueller
              Humanist and Former Assistant Attorney General of U.N.
              We must move as quickly as possible to a one-world government, one-world religion, under a one-world leader.

              http://www.arewelivinginthelastdays.com/com/quotes.html

              "Iran and Syria have a joint mission to create a new world order on the basis of justice, humanity and belief in God," Ahmadinejad told visiting Syrian Parliament Speaker Mahmoud al-Abrash.

              http://www.haaretz.com/news/ahmadinejad … r-1.260993

              VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday called for a radical rethinking of the global economy, criticizing a growing divide between rich and poor and urging the establishment of a “true world political authority” to oversee the economy and work for the “common good.”

              http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world … 8pope.html

              It's called divide and conquer.  If we don't have wars the current system of the world cannot be changed.  The United Nations would never have come to being unless WW2 didn't happen. 

              Of course Iran and Israel hate one another but they will do whatever is necessary to implement the New World Order.  That will take place when there is a peace treaty in the Middle East. 

              The interesting thing is that people like Ahmedinejad believe their one wold leader will be Al Mahdi who sounds remarkably like the Anti-Christ and the West believes their one world leader will be Matreya, the Christ guided by Lucifer.


              We do not have mere people dictating the events of the world.  Satan is omniscience and can make this all come together.  Think this is nonsense? Watch all the videos.  Can't say I have my tinfoil hat on unless you look at all the evidence.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol Most businesses are owned by Satanists, Claire? lol

                The next question to ask is if religion causes insanity or is it the other way round?

              2. Disappearinghead profile image89
                Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So my local green grocer is a satanist? How about the window cleaner?

                A one world government sounds great anyway. We all get to keep our national cultures and identity, and we will have world peace. I'm quite looking forward to it. Intelligent scientists and economists running the show instead of politicians.

                There's no Satan though. He's been invented.

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I meant to say major companies like chain stores.

                  Yes, of course there's no Satan.  What you believe is gospel.

                  1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                    Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Walmart?

              3. Disappearinghead profile image89
                Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You may wonder why people are loath to look up those references you post Claire. We have no idea who these people are behind these conspiracy websites. They could be any old bunch of fruit loops with a low IQ, ignorant and bigoted, little formal education, prone to get overtly emotional, who see meaning in things that aren't there.

                When I read on some paranoia site proclaiming that everyone is sucking mythical satan's toes, I just can't take it seriously. They are the kind of people who think astrologers can see the future; think that Islam is of Satan; think all rock music is satanic; think Tourette's is a result of demon possession, think that martial arts are evil, or that windmills are satanic tools . They are like medieval Catholic paranoid priests who see Satan in a black chicken, or 1950s politicos seeing communists under the bed.

                They mock ancient mythology about beliefs in sea monsters, mermaids, and labyrinthine minotors, yet they believe in demons and an arch fiend called Satan, but don't see the irony. A simple historical research of Judaism, Jewish history and Zoroastrianism would simply dispel such beliefs.

                I spent 25 years in Church. I've heard people claim that a series of nightmares were the devil attacking them, or that the devil made them crash their car or the washing machine to pack up. I've read accounts of people claiming Jesus took them to see hell to witness poor souls being tortured by demons pushing hot pokers up their bottoms. Ive lost count of the number of times I'm told that God curses those that don't tithe, or that God wilfully tortures people in hell. I've seen people falling over alledgedly slain in the spirit, or so called drunk with laughter on the 'New Wine'. How any times have worship leaders screamed that "God is in this place moving in power" as they hype up the crowd into an emotional frenzy? I've read Derek Prince and Bill Subritsky. Ive sat in conferences staring Rodney Howard Brown, Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Savelle, and Joyce Meyer. They all think the Holy Spirit is talking to them when they talk absolute bollocks.

                Myths do not reality make no matter how excited people get about them.

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't have to wonder why people don't look up the references.  I know.  They just don't have the courage just in case there's a legitimate source which you clearly don't know if there is because you haven't looked it up. 

                  Nobody should just believe what they are told.  I most certainly do not.  I go where the evidence leads me.  Do the investigation yourself.  It is a fact what the dollar and the all-seeing eye is on the dollar bill. Here's an interesting quote from the highly influential Satanist Aleister Crowley:

                  "Satan! Cry Aloud! Thou exalted Most High! Oh my Father Satan! The Eye!"

                  Magnum Opus, Book 4.

                  Go to various sites and see their sources to see if they are legitimate or not.  I never just look at one site and take it at face value.  I look for corroboration.

                  It is out of Rihanna's own mouth that she said she was a devil-worshipper.  It came out of the mouth of David Rockefeller and others about the New World Order.

                  It is a fact that the American Elite go to Bohemian Grove and sacrifice effigies paying homage to their God Satan in the form of Lillith, the owl.  Listen to the 1980's news report I posted that reports on Bohemian Grove.

                  I don't make this stuff up.  If people don't do insane things I can't sound insane reporting on them.

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You might want to consider, instead of looking for corroboration, that you look for denial.

                    If you want to believe something you can always find corroboration for it on the web.  There is always a nut job somewhere that will tell you anything, anything at all.

                    If instead you look for denial and try to find evidence that something you have read isn't true you will at least have evidence on both sides of the fence to compare and think about.

                  2. Disappearinghead profile image89
                    Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Bohemian Grove. It's a bunch of blokes going out into the country to get drunk, have a laugh and let off some steam. If they go through these sacrifice and homage ceremonies, you don't seriously think they take it seriously do you? Do you actually believe they think that what they are doing is real? I suggest that after a few beers and smokin dope, anything is a bit of a laugh.

                    Channel 4's John Ronson wrote "My lasting impression was of an all-pervading sense of immaturity: the Elvis impersonators, the pseudo-pagan spooky rituals, the heavy drinking. These people might have reached the apex of their professions but emotionally they seemed trapped in their college years."

                  3. 0
                    Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    ***************************

                    Really? In another thread you said Crowley had killed people, which is absolutely not true.

              4. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Is that most businesses, or most big businesses? I'm getting ready to buy a small business. I'd like to know.  If I've got to be a satanist I should start reading up on what's expected. If they are going to be sacrificing virgins at the local business club I'll need to buy appropriate attire for the ceremonies.

                1. mischeviousme profile image61
                  mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You'll also need a sacrificial knife and a pipeline of fresh virgins,

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    A sacrificial knife? I suppose I'll see if I can find one on Amazon. It's a big business. Owned by satanists, I guess I'm sure there will be a few to choose from.

                    Which brings up another question. Do you think all of the stock holders are satanists....or just the major ones. How much stock does it take to classify as a satanist?

                    I hope Claire comes back to clear this up.

      7. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        very interesting claire
        Thank you for posting that

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You're welcome. smile

    6. Titen-Sxull profile image95
      Titen-Sxullposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Evil is a description we give to behaviors (or people) which do a great deal of harm with little or no benefits.

      Religion in many forms does do harm however I wouldn't generalize by calling all religion evil.

      1. mischeviousme profile image61
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration of a skeleton have never prevented human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumor".
                                                         Auldus Huxley

      2. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Why do we have propensity to do evil? Why is it wired into our brain? Animals wouldn't do what some people are capable of doing.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That's not true. That is a fundamentalist Christian lie. Look at the world Claire. Start with your community. The great majority of humanity wants to live in harmony with their neighbors. Sit in the courts for a couple of months. You'll find that petty crimes are perpetrated by a few, over and over again. Those who commit violent crimes are a small percentage of society. Stop projecting your fears.

          Now you say evil is hard wired into people. Is it hard wired into you? Do you fight against your instincts to do harm to others? That isn't normal.  We don't have Satan imbedded into our DNA. No matter how very important it is for you to think we do.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I respectfulfully disagree.

            A switch on of the good old flat screen will show what humanity is enfatuated with.

            Lies, power, wealth, murder, deceit in any way actually.. not just lies.

            The title most people use for tv now that desensitizes is "drama"...

            Just for clarity, what are "drama" shows about? Nothing BUT lies.... lol

            It's just evil wrapped up to look like bunches of fun.

            But... murder, nor deceit, is fun or pleasurable when it directly involves ourself.

            If evil wasn't a part of people, the things we "enjoy" to watch wouldn't be cruel actions.

            I could go on for days about the horrible things humanity causes, then denies they are evil. Or, that evil even exists.

            I've witnessed enough to know we, humanity, are for a certainty not pure love...

            Actually, I'd go as far as saying, that if we accounted the good vs evil ratio on the programming across the world of what is most popular.. I would put ALL of my chips on the bet that humanity is very, very much the opposite of good...

            smile

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I never said life was pure love. Wouldn't that be nice.

              But, I can honestly say that is one of the problems I have with Christians. You guys watch the most violent shows on tv.  No, that's not it.

              You look at humanity from the worst possible angle. You see the bad and blind yourself to the good. Out of curiosity, is that the way you think God is? If so, why would he send his only son?

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol, I don't watch television for that very reason. [well, occasionally.. news, some movies etc.. i'm not an omish person, lol]

                And Christians are still people, in that they vary one from the other.

                They choose themselves what they want, and God determines whether their heart was in it for good or for evil. People aren't pure love, or pure evil.

                That is because it is a choice, and life is a learning process. No one is at the same position in understanding as their neighbor, just like we are not in the same position in age.

                And I do no such Ms. Emile, lol, cmon now.. I see bad AND good.

                He sent his Son to save the people who, once they realize they aren't all good, would accept their place, that God is God and they are His creation and loved children who need His help, and would love Him and CHOOSE good.

                Being MADE to be good out of force, and being given the OPTION, is my point. Who wants to say "love me and love your brother! now!" with a blackmail type attitude using power? lol, that's not love...

                We can't go to an ALL GOOD place if we AREN'T all good. That would corrupt it. We have to be made whole again, if we choose good, once we decide to choose good or bad. God, or that we don't want God, which is choosing the opposite team, which is Satan and evil.

                A full glass of clean water is not clean anymore if an ounce of dirty water, a small amount in ratio, is poured in it. It must then be filtered completely if there is ANY dirt, or it is not clean water.

                God gives us the choice, and we have ample opportunity to choose from good or evil because we live in a world with both, and experience both. Which means we have both in us, clean water got a little dirty..

                Jesus Christ came so that if we choose good, and God, He would filter the bad from us so that we CAN enter a pure world without currupting it.

                Those who choose good, and EARNESTLY seek good, and God, know that Jesus Christ is good, and is telling the Truth.

                Things aren't simple to understand from the way the world sees things because they are humans, and they all throw their opinions in, which though I know I have an opinion, I try to start nuetral for the best understanding.

                Everyone disagrees, which means SOMEONE is wrong.. lol

                I can answer, and would love to answer the best I can, any questions you genuinely have that you think is an untruth relating to the Bible and God.

                Understanding truth versus lies is practically what I've devoted my life to.

                And, OF COURSE, someone is going to disagree with this. lol

                But, that's just an offer. If your curiosity gets you.

                smile

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          We don't. It is ideologies such as religions that cause good people to do bad things.



          It isn't. Compassion and altruism are more hard wired into our brains than evil.



          That would show then that it is in fact ideologies and not hard wiring. We are also animals and we act very much like them in many ways.

          1. mischeviousme profile image61
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            People have been quarelling since the dawn of man, religion is just a convenient reason to do so.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So, according to you, whenever people get together, the first thing they do is quarrel? And, they keep quarreling because that's what human nature is all about?

              lol

              1. mischeviousme profile image61
                mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Not exactly... Humans are capable of great acts of kindness, but also capable of great harm. A person will protect what they believe they own, such as ideas, land and social titles.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, people are "capable" of doing great things and committing great harm, but have you ever taken the time to understand why they do either?



                  Protect from what?

                  1. mischeviousme profile image61
                    mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    People are suspicious of others, as long as the ideas are different and someone owns what another wants(among other reasons), there will be a reason. This is not to say that one would not be apt to share, but the other may want it all. Greed, power, lust, hate, murder and rape, these are a few of the evils of men. Love, compassion, mercy and charity, these are fewer, but carry more power. One can move a city with hate but with love, one can move a nation. Love others like you love yourself or the word love means nothing.

          2. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, yes, it is always religion that is responsible for evil.  People never do evil, like murder, unless it is because of their beliefs, right? So no atheist is capable of doing wrong?





            Really now? Do you think compassion and altruism is wired more into your brain than putting people down?






            Bring up a toddler with absolutely no discipline and see how she/he turns out.   
            Can you think of an act animals have done that is on par with the worst evil mankind can commit?

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sure, atheists are 'capable' of doing bad things just like everyone else. But, being capable and committing murder are two completely different things. So, we look at how much murder is committed and the reasons that drive them. And, since murder is committed by a very small fraction of the population, it's obviously not 'hard wired' into us.

              We aren't talking about just murder, Claire. We are talking about what makes good people do bad things and we find that overall it is the ideologies they embrace and not some characteristic that is hard wired into their brains.

              With religion, you are taught that everyone is born a sinner, which would suggest that everyone is born with evil hard wired into their brains, yet that is far removed from reality and what we observe. Of course, the power of suggestion is quite influential, especially with the gullible and the indoctrinated, hence if you are taught that you're born evil, you'll probably end up acting that way.



              Well, we certainly find a tremendous amount of evidence right here on these forums of believers constantly personally insulting others, so it would appear embraced ideologies are causing that, too.




              What does discipline have to do with religious beliefs? What is your point?
                 


              Of course not, which would indicate that those worst evils were not the result of being hard wired into us considering we are animals, too.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Let me tell you a little story.  Do you know how the murder rate would spiral out of control if it wasn't illegal? That is why we have laws because people find it much easier to do wrong than the right thing. It keeps us in check. There is also a thing called a conscience which is God's way of talking to us.  It doesn't matter if murder was legal people with a conscience would still not
                commit it.  As much as it is hard-wired into our brain to commit evil, we are also capable of doing much good. 






                Then what makes people commit evil? And don't say a small fraction commits things like murder, etc.  Evil falls under many categories.  Things like bullying and being spiteful is also considered evil.  And that is absolutely poppycock that people being taught that they are sinners they will probably land up acting that way.  It is absolutely true that we are sinners.  Who has never done wrong?


                ATM wrote:





                Nice dodge.  It's always the believers that are at fault.  Perhaps they are mean because they were taught that they were born bad.  What's your excuse? Why do you have a propensity to be spiteful and petty instead of mature and decent?  Why? Because it is easier to be that than self disciplined to make an attempt to be respectful.







                My point is that if you don't discipline a toddler, they will turn out to be little monsters.  Why? Because it is hard-wired into our brains to be selfish, spiteful, etc.  Without discipline, a person will NEVER turn out to be a decent, compassion, respectful person because those things take discipline in speech and actions.
                   





                Speak for yourself.  Think of yourself as an ape if you wish.  Why do some people have the craving to do evil so unspeakable that animals would never do it?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, those laws are for the very tiny portion of the population who commit those crimes.



                  That's insane.



                  You just contradicted yourself.



                  Evil is not hard wired into our brains, that's just insane.



                  Bad ideologies, like religions, for example.



                  But, that is reality.



                  That's insane.



                  Yes, I understand you need to tell me that simply because I argue your irrational beliefs.



                  That's insane and far removed from reality.
                     


                  Our genetic makeup speaks for us, not me. If you have a problem with that, speak to your God and ask him why he made us the same way as apes.



                  Animals don't got religion. smile

        3. Titen-Sxull profile image95
          Titen-Sxullposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Actually many species of animals do commit what we would consider murder. Chimpanzees have actually been known to go to war against rival factions, their battles include sticks made into make-shift spears.

          From what I understand of it it seems that the more intelligent an animal is the more likely it is to have these sorts of behavioral issues. It may be that our intelligence and ability to form more complex thoughts opens us to a wider range of both positive and negative behaviors.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Is that not the survival of the fittest? Since when do people murder so that mankind can weed out the weak? Okay, Hitler did that but only because he wanted a pure Aryan race. Apes cannot discern between right and wrong like we can.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              But, you said we were born sinners and evil is hard wired into our brains and have asked which animals have committed great evil as compared with men?

              You're not being consistent here, Claire.

              Oh, but looky here...

              "Monkeys and apes know right from wrong, scientists say"

              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … s-say.html

              "Animals 'can tell right from wrong': Scientists suggest it's not just humans who have morals"

              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ … z1mef1ghAO

              "Apes know right from wrong - MONKEYS and apes have a sense of morality and the ability to tell right from wrong, according to new research. "

              http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo … 1118858764

              1. nasake profile image61
                nasakeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                you have no way to prove animals have no religion...

                1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                  Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Agreed. Only last week, my cat was praying to Aaron Aardvark, the God of ant-eaters. When I asked him why he was praying to that false god, he said "Meow".

                2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  lol lol <--- Coveted double laughie award

                  1. nasake profile image61
                    nasakeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    There is no way of knowing. Their daily routine could be some sort of ritual in honour to their deity. Their really is no way to know for sure.

              2. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                This is the only article that loads.  It's very sweet. 

                I just want to draw your attention to this:

                Professor Frans de Waal, a primate behaviourist at Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia, said: ‘I don’t believe animals are moral in the sense we humans are – with well developed and reasoned sense of right and wrong – rather that human morality incorporates a set of psychological tendencies and capacities such as empathy, reciprocity, a desire for co-operation and harmony that are older than our species.

                Animals are capable of great love that is for sure.  And while this study may be true, I was thinking along the lines of why lionesses kill yet do not have a conscience about it? Yet if we kill, most would feel bad or traumatized. 

                Why haven't animals, since we are too, developed the same well developed morals that we have?  And why would animals not commit the same atrocities as the worst kind of evil there is? For example, an animal would never have sex with a newborn yet there are people who rape newborn children.  I'm just trying to figure out why this is.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  There are many more. In fact, I found over 65,000 papers in Google Scholar alone that talk about apes and morals.



                  "De Waal’s essay is titled, “Morality evolved: Primate social instincts, human morality, and the rise and fall of ‘veneer theory’.

                  He outlines three levels of morality, comparing humans and apes—moral sentiments, social pressure, and reasoned judgement. According to his analysis, other primates have the first, aspects of the second, and only a little of the third. Put more specifically, most animals show Functional Altruism (perform acts that are costly to the performer but benefit the recipient). Many social (group-living?) animals show Socially Motivated Helping (empathic responses to the distress of their fellows). Some large-brained animals (primates, cetaceans, elephants?) go further, and show Intentional Targeted Helping (which entails awareness of how the other will benefit from being helped). Finally, only some large-brained animals engage in ‘Selfish’ Helping, in which the helper is intentionally seeking return benefits. All four variants are forms of altruism, and are often confused."

                  http://www.paleoanthro.org/journal/cont … 070034.pdf

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    If our goodness is part of evolution from our "ape ancestors", then what happened when people have resorted to the pit of hell? I am asking you what the mindset is of a person who rapes a baby? What makes people do things that even animals wouldn't do?

  2. 0
    Emile Rposted 4 years ago

    No.

    1. mischeviousme profile image61
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Humans are responsible for the evils of this world, there are no magical creatures doing the evils, just human ego.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You've got that right. Imo.

  3. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 4 years ago

    Men are the root of all evil. lol

    1. Captain Redbeard profile image61
      Captain Redbeardposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I guess we did let the woman follow her selfish nature and eat the fruit.........................................oh bazinga!!! lol jk

  4. pedrog profile image14
    pedrogposted 4 years ago
  5. fpherj48 profile image79
    fpherj48posted 4 years ago

    Emile R and "others"....It's fairly obvious Clare not only does not know the definition of "hysterical," but she has clearly proven herself rather under-educated in general. This being said, take special note of how she felt compelled to TELL me I visited the site of my own volition.....as though somehow I may not be fully aware of this elementary fact.  Her very frame of mind offers confirmation that she has chosen to remain helpless & useless in this world while being "directed" what to do and not do, how, when where and why.....Quite evident that Clare prefers the helpless/mindless means of existing, under full control.....like a puppet, perhaps? 
    To add a touch of "immaturity," it seems she feels a tantrum is appropriate:  "I can DO WHATEVER I WANT!!"  Yes, you may Clare, dear child.  You may.  And so may we all.
    Therefore, try to understand, I surely do not need your "permission" to leave a site, nor are you the decider of what is necessary or unnecessary.
    You began by saying, "Excuse me,".  Interesting.  I excuse you Clare, because I am totally aware your response was triggered by my question, which in your own small manner of thinking, no one in this community should be able to deduce your motive.
    Tsk Tsk...Shame on you, Clare, for assuming all of the intelligence and rationality in this community, does not exist.  Everyone "excuses" you, Clare.
    In fact, beyond this, we basically dismiss you.

    1. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I see no shame on her, and I'm not in the "Everyone".

      Thanks anyway.

      smile

  6. Eric Newland profile image60
    Eric Newlandposted 4 years ago

    Forgiveness, love, and charity are poison now? Or is it more the individuals who profess to be members of Abrahamic religions but ignore their most basic doctrinal principles that are the problem?

    If a wolf in sheep's clothing attacks you does that make sheep evil? If a white man in blackface mugs you do you join the Klan? To me the logic is the same.

    1. PhoenixV profile image79
      PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Mr Newland. Good to see you again. Enjoying your hubs BTW and I agree with your thoughts here.

      1. Eric Newland profile image60
        Eric Newlandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks. Too bad I keep breaking my own "internet arguments are stupid" code. I blame the "recently active threads" feed for constantly baiting me. tongue

        1. PhoenixV profile image79
          PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Funny that you mention that because I too am breaking the same rules. I feel like I am smoking in the boys room lol.

          1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
            oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            These forums can put the bait out there, its often why I don't even look at them, much less get involved. (My response from personal experience....)

            Don't take the bait! lol ;p

    2. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Well said Mr. Newland.

      smile

  7. aware profile image71
    awareposted 4 years ago

    i think not

  8. oceansnsunsets profile image88
    oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago

    The 3 Abrahamic religions you mention only have Abraham in common, and are vastly different from one another if you study them closely.  Their prophets, beliefs, who they follow, their books, all differ greatly. (Just to make a note on clarification there.  They are diametrically opposed to one another very often.)

  9. oceansnsunsets profile image88
    oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago

    I meant to answer, "neither" to your question however. 

    Human beings making conscious choices to break moral codes or laws inherent in all of us, are the root of all evil.  That is one way to say it anyway, that doesn't go against what anyone believes, atheist or theist.

  10. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Evil and good come from the minds of MAN...male and female. The main body of evil is that which we perpetrate against each other. We won't enjoy peace until the dragon within is chained.

  11. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    If the right has money as its unifier, the opposite or left would have God. But until God becomes empirical, there will never exist agreement.

  12. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    I think abortion would make more sense if it was retro-active.

  13. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    People who have no control. No control over their minds, their bodies. A world out of control. And none of you see that. Amazing.

  14. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Claire...do  you like to play "kill the messenger"

  15. christianajohan profile image61
    christianajohanposted 4 years ago

    I don't believe religion made the world in chaos. No matter what things we are in common or not in common, people quarrel.

    Even in politics where people stand by the law, still having troubles by themselves.

    Religion is just one of the aspect where people make conflict.

    Life is precious and should not be wasted like some youth these days.

    The true meaning of life? Let me show you. I have a humble hub here about life's purpose.

    Feel free to visit.

    <link snipped - no promotional links>

  16. rebekahELLE profile image91
    rebekahELLEposted 4 years ago

    "Get busy living or get busy dying." 


    Shawshank Redemption

    what is your focus?

  17. 0
    Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago
    1. Disappearinghead profile image89
      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks Deborah, very interesting source of info. Perhaps Claire might like to have a look.

    2. Claire Evans profile image90
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      LMAO!

      lol

  18. Diane Inside profile image85
    Diane Insideposted 4 years ago

    Greed and selfishness is the root of all evil.

    1. 0
      jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Root of all Good too!

 
working