That Jesus said the only peole you could trust with his word were your Clergy/Church? Ok, another question............when were you taught that the church has the only answers and that Jesus's words are wrong and that you cannot ask questions of the church and you cannot as them if you could?
Neither Jesus nor any other enlightened person or Prophet says like this. They always believe in the good of living beings.
Persons having vested interest, later on, adds these types of sentences just to decieve the people at large. It helps themmaintaining their followings.
It is being done everywhere in the world, in most of the religions.
It may be the beter way to stay with own conscious or search for a really enlightened person.
I was never taught this.
I wouldn't follow it if I were.
While I am a spiritual/religious person, I will not halt questioning things, especially if they are spoken by another mortal.
My mother openly welcomed me to question what she did and told me to never simply accept what another person says. Always analyze it and make my own decision and keep my mind open.
Mom > Clergy for me.
I never was taught this, but I have many a catholic friend who has been taught that. I did my best to convince them there were better routes, and I suppose some of them listened. It's such a fear driven institution though, even more than many other churches that pump the words "hell" and "eterna; damnation" from the pulpit.
Theynare taught from birth. The first contact is with the priest and then they go to CCD and then into the main Catholic schools. So I guess I am asking ..................................At what point does the church supersede anything that Jesus teaches in the Bible?
I sent my hub about Re-incarnation to someone that is devoutely religious and they came back with the response that Re-incarnation is of the devil and is a total lie. Only thing is I coorelated my story and research with the church..........he didn't read past the first words in the title. So it got me to thinking-when are they taught to disregard anything other than what they have been taught and my how fast they put up the sheild to knowledge.
Lady Guinevere your devoutly religious friend was a good friend.
What church did you research re-incarnation through? Not the Catholic Church to come to your conclusion. The Bible does not say anything about us being reincarnated.
I got this off a question and answer page from the Catholic encyclopedia.
Re-incarnation doesn't jive with Christianity at all. Like the answer says, there is no need for it.
I did not research it through a catholic church. I researched it using the Bible. You will have to go to my hub about reincarnation to reply to that there. When are you taught to listen to a person rather than read the Bible for your onw edification? That is the question this hub brings up--not the reincarnation topic.
Here is that hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/Re-Incarnation- … -It-Is-Not
Another hub I just published on Friday that you should read is: http://hubpages.com/hub/Love-Is-Gods-Love-We-Are
I was raised Catholic from birth. First communion, ccd and the whole bit. Catholicism is so steeped in tradition and has such a long history that when you are in it, it feels like it is the only way. I honestly believed at the time, that most of the people on the planet were Catholic or something very similar. That is unless they were one of those crazy people. Now I'm one of those crazies
I married into a Catholic family so I had to take RCIA. I didn't find anything wrong with their doctrines as they used the Lord's Prayer and other creeds to teach by. When I went to my first communion I was put on the heaviest guilt trip ever. It even superseded what my mother does in the control issue. That was when I began to see something wrong with the whole picture. I stayed Catholic for 7 years before I was called to be a minister--oh the Catholics had a field day (some still do and are not shy in telling me off) about that. They automatically thought that I was a Christian Minister. I am, but not for the CHURCH. That is the big difference and they only thing they can come up with is that I am Satan's follower. I read that Bible back and forth to get some answers. I got more than the answers that I was looking for in my heart and different answers then the ones they feed you. If they would sit and read the whole bible themselves without any priestly intervention they would also have their eyes opened wider.
You asay and I hear alot of this that Catholic's are a Tradition..............well Jesus was totally against that-so the church is teaching the lie and teaches it as the only truth. A lie is a lie, nw matter who many times you change the story or add to it, it still makes it a lie.
So at what age are they taught to gloss over the teachings of Jesus and at what age are they taught to fight for that lie?
If you can see that all religions, even those that claim they are not religions but still retain some basic hierarchy, are power structures meant to cater to the basest fears of every human in a way that exploits them for money/power/goodfeelings, then you are truly enlightened.
Since you ask "at what age", I will tell you that it is from the earliest ages. At seven they are told they reach the "age of reason" and can commit mortal sins. A mortal sin is something that can send you to hell for all eternity if you don't repent of it and seek confession. It matters not how petty the "sin" in question is because eternal hellfire is a really long time or so we are told.... So for instance, a child could be indoctrinated with coloring books exemplifying the lives of the Saints as early as age three years old. Then they could be taught about other things leading up to age seven. Then they could be given first "confession" and beforehand taught about "mortal sin". So for example the parent could teach the child that it is against the fourth commandment for the child to rebel and disobey the parent at any time in a serious manner, this child would then logically conclude that to rebel is to merit eternal hellfire and God's eternal punishment through sheer separation and loss. So, every time the child get's psychologically (verbally) or physically abused the child is taught that to seriously challenge the parent's authority is a "mortal sin" so it usually keeps it's mouth shut, or worse it ends up getting it's ass beat or verbally abused and then told to goto confession on top of that (this has happened for many many centuries in the RCC). The child learns from an early age that this process is "OK" and when it gets older it does the same thing to it's children and so forth and so on and the new adult feels it has the justification to do this when in reality the adult is just mimicking patterns it learned in early childhood. Or it could be something as harmless as the child having a bad mood and seriously disobeying the parent (who doesn't understand that the child just might want some time alone), and then the child has now committed a "mortal sin" due to disobedience and willfully breaking the fourth commandment. So even if parents still beat or physically punished their children, if religion wasn't in the picture then at least they wouldn't have to have "God" on their parents' side as they were getting their asses beat, and feel like they needed to "repent" as well. This is an obvious downside to dualism, and not one that many people really think about. They just think it is their right to hit their kids because the Bible/Church tells them so and that it isn't manipulative to indirectly tell the seven year old kid it will rot in hell due to mortal sin if it disobeys again after it gets beat/hit (usually resulting in ever more violent punishment in an effort to quell what could have just been a bad mood).
The indoctrination begins right from the start of youth as the Church teaches it is the duty of the parents to raise their kids in the faith, and their parents taught them that, and their parents' parents taught them that. It is very hard to break this cycle and the dependency that develops. Reading the lives of the Catholic Saints one can see in book after book after book about how worried those Saints were for their eternal salvation if they committed a mortal sin and couldn't get to confession despite a perfect act of contrition. And that is just one example among many of the horribly entrenched dependencies that a religion like the RCC forces people into.
So the children grow up reading about the wonderful "miracles" of people like St. Francis Xavier and do not learn the historical side of things until they get much much older (The Indian Inquisition led by Xavier and other Jesuits was absolutely ruthless).
Zoroastrianism is around (albeit in small numbers), thousands of years later and I think it is a testament to the strength of religious indoctrination that it is still around. The short answer is that it is indeed very difficult for this cycle to be broken even in four thousand years, whether it is the Catholic religion or Zoroastrianism (another religion).
Thak you very much for that very good explanation. I saw that the first year of bieng a catholic. Then after a few years of beeing involved in the children and tgoing to chrch I saw how they take those ver small children nad start indoctrinating them--I mean like in pre-school. I also got to sit in a class in an catholc school and listed to what was being taught. Some of it is hate-making and, like you said, taught that if the question they will get a very bad punishment for ---the one who loves them----totally stupid and backwards.
Those Saints ----it only serves the Catholic church and some of those who are put up for saithood takes 100's of years--like they can do anything about it after they leave this earth......just dumb.
Thank you for that response and some history lesson as it were. Maybe some other newer members will take interest in this forum thread now.
This is a very well thought out reply, you should make it a hub!
I don't believe the church has any right over Christ whatsoever. There is no superceding. If Christ is the foundation of the "church" (spiritual reference here) then there's no physical entity that can overshadow Him.
Exactly......but the Church doesn't see it that way. So when are they taught that the church is better than Jesus and how to gloss over what Jesus (the cornerstone of the very church they have) says in that Bble?
You are right---they have no authority to do so. The church that Jesus wanted is not the same as a building--the temple is within you and he states that a few times right in the Bible.
Funny, I watch my husband and when I put on one of those Discovery shows about the Bible he will change the cannel or get on the phone---anything to disrupt what they have to say or show.......as I read things to him about Jesus and it doeesn' coincide with his teaching his face will go blank---that tells me that he was indoctrinated---Brainwashed. There is no mistaking it.
I was taught to do what I know or believe to be right what good God would deny you for this. -dad
follow your heart -dad
let God sort them out - dad
I will love you no matter what - mom
if your scared, get up and look- dad
there is nothing to fear but fear itself -jfk
do the best with what you have - dad
nothing is more important than family - dad
if someone needs help, help them - dad
let people say whatever they want to - mom
The only thing that my folks ever agreed on was "Sandy, you gotta good heart."
My mom would say, "why you always cry over these things, at some point you just can't."
My dad would say, " if you didn't cry I would be worried about you."
I got great folks!
background: my dad grew up Catholic, his mom and dad held sermons or whatever you call it, in their home. His dad was an alcoholic who abused them, this mother beat them with extention chords and eventually committed suicide. - my dad said F- that, not my my God.
My mom grew up Catholic- her father passed away when she was young, her new father made her a slave, they made her a servent to the house hold, the punished her by making her sit on her knees in raw rice beds with buckets, like you would see on tv. She hated them for not treating her like a family member or a human for that matter. So, she ran away when she was 14, came over to america.
She still regards herself as catholic and still holds some traditions that she grew up with, but she said, there is only one God and God is always good. She goes to the catholic church every once in a while but she says that she goes for herself but that they are hypocrites.
I was brought up to trust in God too. When I went to the Catholic church and went through RCIA, my Uncle who is a deacon in the Welsh Baptist Chruch was going to dis-own me and a few others in my family. My mother was the one who said that it didn't atter what religion you are but to know that there is a God. I was never forced to go to church, until I became catholic. When I stopped going to church my catholic husband told me that he was going to tell everyone why I really didn't go to church---yeah they are taught to put people on guilt trips. I don't tke those kinds of trips anymore so I told him to do and say whatever he wanted to say. I haven't been back to church for a looong time. Jesus and God are not in those buildings that Jesus didn't approve of. He is in your heart and mind and it says that in the Bible. So go figure---I beleive in something bigger and I saw Jesus too...but to the catholics and other churches that I have been members of I am a child of Satan..................???
I am going to be gone until Saturday late evening or Sunday morning. Keep posting though and I will get back to it as soon as I can.
I was raised as a Catholic and as far as my mind's eye can see, I was taught this culture at the age of four (I remember going to my aunt's catholic wedding).
From 1st to 12th grade, I was in Catholic School, and was taught by Ms. Torres in the second grade (St. Theresa of Avila) that my sins could only be forgiven through penance and confession by a priest; which led me to believe that my forgiveness could only be granted by the words of a priest. I'm not sure this is Jesus' intent in the good book, however.
I was raised Catholic, but I guess I didn't listen to what the priests said, for the most part. My mother was not Catholic, so I was six when a priest made the mistake of saying, "The Catholic Church is the only church, and anyone who goes to another church will go to Hell." At the time, I knew there my mother and her family were "the best, nicest, people in the world". I also knew there was "such a thing as Jewish people". It made no sense to me that God only "liked" Catholics, so I turned out.
Other than expecting priests to be the middle-man between people and God, the Catholic Church masses pretty much involved a priest reading from the gospel. I think Jesus was in most of the "stories". Then there'd be a sermon, based on the "story". There was more talk about the "moral to the story" than about Jesus. Jesus was said to be one part of "The Holy Trinity". In spite of my gripes with the Catholic Church, I always kind of gave it "points" for talking about "The Heavenly Father" more than "worshiping Jesus". That much did seem more right to me.
"The Catholic Church is the only church, and anyone who goes to another church will go to Hell."
It's funny you should mention this. We had a celebration for our community and it was held in an old church that was being restored to it original beauty. There was a Catholic couple that came in and I over heard the lady say she wondered if they were going to hell because they were in another church. It still goes on today!
From what I've heard they've eased up some on that in more recent years; but I can see how someone who started church as a child could still believe that (or else they were joking).
Being raised as a communist I am lucky to never been taught that. I had my share of pretty similar communist garbage though
I was never taught that, but rather to look within yourself and check the level of trust that you feel.
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