Taking this conversation away from another thread where it did not belong;
Were were discussing adultery
Other that the fact that God said don't do it. and other than the emotional trama caused from the feeling of betrail, I think that there is something more to being adulterated than disobedience to God.
This is completely hyperthetical scenario I swear.
Lets suppose that I divorce my wife for causes other than HER comitting adultery.
Scripture says that if she remaries, I have forced her into a state of adultery.
What did she do wrong? especially if the cause for me to divorce her is that I comitted adultery, fell in love with that other person and divorced my wife.
Truly this is hyperthetical!
Remember, I'm the guilty party. And yet, when I divorce her I am causing her to committ adultery if she remarries.
How can this be; unless ... committing adultery and being adulterated is something much more than we think that it is?
What do you think
I want to see if anyone thinks what I'm thinking.
The investment a man puts into his marriage is proportional to his return.
What kills the free will of a woman to desire a man is the self-importance the man puts on his own self.
Adultery starts as a matter of the heart, the adulterated heart leads to the illicit behaviour.
The attitude is non-physical, but can manifest in the physical act.
Adultery is a breach of covenant of a marriage relationship in Christ.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate. We have no right to desire something other than what God has intended.
If the wife has no just cause, then it is immoral for her to divorce and remarry.
That's because she is a woman! Women are second class citizens according to the bible (i'm assuming you are talking about the bible).
Things like this:
New International Version (NIV)
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
I've always got puzzled seeing women defending the bible so ferociously when it was, and apparently still is in some places, the main reason for women being discriminated and see their rights to equality being denied.
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." ...
If every word in the bible is true, so all Christian who have sex before marriage. Must OBEY the Lord and kill them sevles and leave the rest of us alone
Are you, by any chance, referring to a " Mary" who got pregnant before marriage?
Exodus 21:10 For I would that all men were even as I myself.... I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn in hell . --
1 Corinthians 7:7-9 It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
also Deuteronomy 22:13 and the list goes on and on......
It's all garbage, marriage and adultery. It was jealous, puritanical a-holes that started the whole thing. They saw a man with 5 wives and made it law for him to marry one. Does that not sound like a lonely, horny doctrine? During the Salem witch trials, they usually picked the prettier girls out as witches. Why? Because the ugly dude running town wasn't getting any.
Because according to scripture, when you marry you are no longer two, but one person.
Nothing but FORNICATION can separate you. Even if you divorced her, in God's eyes she is still married to you, therefore if she marries another, she is committing adultery. God's law is above man's law.
You can't divorce because of adultery, because lust in the heart is adultery.
You can only divorce for Fornication, the actual physical sexual act with another.
Sounds like you would get screwed either way, no wonder I get stalked for a long time after some relationships
That's like :if you love something set it free, if it dose not come back to you, hunt it down and kill it
OK let me tell ya what I was A thinking.
I just got home fron A crousing ... so bear with me, it's 1:30 AM.
When we were young . we were designed with an propencity for adictive behaveiour towards sex. It is written that the power is in the sperm.
I hope I don't loose myself in attempting to explain this HA.
When the woman recieves the sperm (as a vergin) she is programed to fall in love with that person if she wasn't already.
any way back to the story. I guess I had a mind trip for a moment.
When two virgins come together in this way they develope an adiction for each other.
And if life doesn't throw a wrench into the works they become one body, mind and spirit more each and every day that they are together.
When either one of the two step outside of the oneness which marriage was intended to be, this exchange of bodily fluids makes a change in the chemistry of the whole self. Kinda like the story of Humpty Dunpty. Once it has fallen all the kings men can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
Yes we can do a do-over and this is OK in Gods eyes, but it can never be what it could have been "IF" both people who entered into this sacrid bond of matrimony had kept their heart where is should have been.
Life and everything about it has to do with chemichles and harmons,estrigen and testramone; and how we deal with them.
Keep it simple and we are better suited to deal with them.
Anyway ;;; that is what I was A thinkin.
what do you think?
I must be crazy. I'm not even going to sp, ck. here we go.
I think, maybe the point was, if you divorce a spouse for reasons other than infidelity, you put them in a position where they are looking for another partner....but they still love you. They can't have you, because you don't want them. Maybe the adultery isn't committed on their end by the remarriage, but because they still want you.
Crazy as this may sound, God designed us to be monogamous with one partner from start to finish, the enemy managed to divert that plan plenty, especially in the sixties for our generation, and I assume most of us have had multiple 'partners'?
Anyhow, when we 'marry' someone (and Gods definition of marriage is promise + consummation = married) we do become 'one flesh' with them, and the spiritual aspect of that carries forward until and unless we ask for release from it.
Without that release, we carry that 'union' with us, so the more 'unions' we create, the more confused our thinking towards sex and partners becomes.
For the world this just means moving the goalposts so that we can feel better about our 'failures' and move on, hence easier divorce, no 'guilty party' divorces and custody laws, pre nuptials and such to make the path from fidelity to adultery easier to slide down.
For the believer however, constrained by trying to observe Gods laws, the issue is different.
We are expected to understand how God thinks to a degree, at least to the degree that He has told us His opinion, and as such we have knowledge that should preclude our starting down the slippery slope to immorality.
Obviously this fails as many folk just pay lip service to the bible, and are even allowed to do so without any spiritual advice from other believers, and leadership.
So we have the situation where ONCE you come to faith, you are constrained to NOT seek divorce, even if your spouse is not a believer.
If the unbeliever leaves you, well you stay trying to seek a reconciliation and keep trying until they remarry (and look at Gods definition of marriage) so when they break the spiritual and sexual bond, you are released from taking them back, in fact by OT terms you are unable to take them back.
Thankfully we live in the NT, so reconciliation and forgiveness rules over the law.
So to sum up, once you are both believers, and married, that's it.
To answer the original question, yes God views physical adultery in the same way He views spiritual adultery, a rejection of Himself.
Not a good thing to do.
Which world are you living in? Or you just ignorant of human history?
Actually I live in the Kingdom of God, temporarily resident on earth, awaiting transfer.
Nope not ignorant, just better informed about eternal aspects of life maybe?
When you get to heaven, divorce or sex won't be a problem to deal with up there,,right? Since divorce is the second worst thing next to death here on earth.
Then who told you humans are designed to be monogamous?
Were in the history man is monogamous?
Better informed in what? bible?
Then how many did David and Solomon(your greatest kings on earth) marry?
King James Version (KJV)
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Guess that about sums it up.
Of course many biblical characters married many women, but that does not make it correct, polygamy was a normal thing in ancient times, and as male heirs were an essential aspect of Kingship, it happened a lot.
But in NT times, we are not recommended to be polygamous, and monogamy is definitely the accepted policy for any marriage between committed believers.
The Bountiful must be the higher faith of commitment, because they have still made lawful here in Canada which some are married up to 20 wives.
...and therefore they are still in error of what God requires....
People would to know God like you do, in fact people do kill in the name of God than for any other reason.
I mean, people would kill, to know god like you do
Anybody can know God as I do, it just takes the demise of ego and the arise of Christ in ones life.
Some say I am boasting, I prefer to hope that I am teasing folk into 'taste and see that the Lord is good'
Psalm 34:7-9 (King James Version)
The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.
O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.
and perhaps I take my 'inspiration' from this:
Romans 11 7:15
What then [shall we conclude]? Israel failed to obtain what it sought [God's favor by obedience to the Law]. Only the elect (those chosen few) obtained it, while the rest of them became callously indifferent (blinded, hardened, and made insensible to it).
As it is written, God gave them a spirit (an attitude) of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, [that has continued] down to this very day.
And David says, Let their table (their feasting, banqueting) become a snare and a trap, a pitfall and a [a]just retribution rebounding like a boomerang upon them];
Let their eyes be darkened (dimmed) so that they cannot see, and make them bend their back [stooping beneath their burden] forever.
So I ask, Have they stumbled so as to fall [to their utter spiritual ruin, irretrievably]? By no means! But through their false step and transgression salvation [has come] to the Gentiles, so as to arouse Israel [to see and feel what they forfeited] and so to make them jealous.
Now if their stumbling (their lapse, their transgression) has so enriched the world [at large], and if [Israel's] failure means such riches for the Gentiles, think what an enrichment and greater advantage will follow their full reinstatement!
But now I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I lay great stress on my ministry and magnify my office,
In the hope of making my fellow Jews jealous [in order to stir them up to imitate, copy, and appropriate], and thus managing to save some of them.
For if their rejection and exclusion from the benefits of salvation were [overruled] for the reconciliation of a world to God, what will their acceptance and admission mean? [It will be nothing short of] life from the dead!
Simple observance of what Christ taught and following the word makes life pleasant.
So you have nothing but a book written by ancient idiots who thought epilepsy is caused by "evil spirits", yet you concede old biblical characters married many women(Did the old god forgot to tell David/or Solomon when he talked with them?). Man through out his history of a million years was polygamous, and only in the last 2000 years, at least half, became monogamous, a good deal are still polygamous. You have the audacity to judge the rest of human beings and tell them they are wrong, because your book said so!!
Perhaps its time for you to remember your own book's advice
Matthew 7:1 :-Judge not, that you be not judged.
Luke 6:37 :- Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.
PS: Please note, I don't support polygamy either, as I think it'll be a disservice to today's society. I'm only contending your notion that man is "designed" to be monogamous. Man and most of his cousins are polygamous.
Interesting that you used that analogy.
Actually I have a relationship with God and Christ through His Holy Spirit, the book is the instruction manual, but we need to follow the instructions before it opens up the ability to get the 'machine' to function correctly.
Like most men I never used to read the instructions on how to make things do what the manufacturer designed them to do, but being relatively intelligent, over time I normally managed to figure out what to do with the machine (lets say a computer) and ONLY opened the manufacturers instruction manuals when the machine failed to do what I wanted or just broke down with a system glitch.
In later life I finally read the instructions and had the patience and wisdom to apply them to the life I was trying to get working right, and guess what, the manufacturer does know how to get the best results from the 'product' He created.
Now as to epilepsy... I have two hubs on that issue that maybe you should read?
Our daughter was diagnosed with epilepsy when she was three years old, and suffered viscous and increasingly severe seizures despite having the best traditional medical attention that the world could offer us.
At one point the medicines she was having inflicted had turned her into a semi vegetative state, where she had no balance, could not speak more than one syllable words and did nothing but sit in the chair between attacks.
We seriously thought we would lose her, that she would die.
I know about epilepsy.
Any condition that medical science has to tell me that they do not know what causes it, nor have a solution to how to CURE it, has at its root(IMO) a spiritual problem.
Our daughter had no physical complaint (no scar tissue on the brain, or birth trauma) that caused her attacks, the doctors could offer no advice as to HOW to solve the problem, only how to treat the symptoms and manifestations of the attacks.
My experience with epilepsy showed me that this fitted into the description of a spiritual attack on my daughter, and our family, and it did truly limit and confine our ministry applications to the world whilst we were dealing with her problems.
Why did God allow us to be tormented for 5 years?
No answer,then, except that we stood firm in faith, and prayed for her recovery and sought His face for guidance, and eventually we were shown the way out of her maze, as God brought her back from the abyss of death.
Now we understand that it was something in our lives that had allowed the enemy to attack our family, with justification, which had opened the door to the attacks
It's in the hubs.
Today she has been fit free for two years, which in medical terms is considered clear from the complaint, and she has regained most of what she lost during her fitting years, her brain is now functioning normally, her manual dexterity is gaining daily and she is a wonderful example of Gods Grace and Mercy.
I cannot give the credit to medical science, they almost killed her, but I can easily see how Gods hand is in her restoration. I give thanks daily.
So NO I do not believe epilepsy is caused by evil spirits, but have seen that it can be cured by prayer and obedience to what God tells you to do, and ensuring that there are no areas of your life that allow the enemy to attack you makes sense.
You are confusing 'designed' with 'obligated' and if you study the lives of those polygamous menfolk, you can see that their polygamy brought them many problems.
God gave men a hard-wired desire to propagate the species, i.e. have as much sex as they can, as often as possible.
This and the fact that men were atrocious in obeying another command to respect, honour and cherish women led (and still leads) to men grabbing as many women as will let them get close enough to have sex with them.
Neither were part of Gods plans for happy contented marriage between two people, and only two people.
Historically the balance between the sexes is pretty standard, i.e. we run about 50/50 unless we have recently had a war that reduces the male population, or done something eugenic (like China did) that causes females to be aborted or otherwise destroyed in favour of males.
Does that sound like God promoted polygamy?
I am judging nobody, telling people they are going the wrong way to reach their destination is not judgemental, it's trying to offer helpful advice, that may make their journey less troublesome.
If folk can see that what I say may contain some truth, good, let them search it out, if they get convicted that maybe their lives are wrong, so be it, they will know what to do, they may even do it.
We judge ourselves (or we should do anyway)in order that we will not be judged by God.
I am simply a commentator, nobody need listen or agree, in fact they can ignore what I say should they choose to do so, and as such, in a forum, I will stay silent.
Like I said above, we are confusing design with obliged.
My computer was designed to be perfect, but my ignorance makes me crash the system frequently, running too many programs at once, being sloppy in cleaning the registry, allowing exposure to virus attacks by going to dubious web addresses, these all cause the computer to run worse than it was designed to do.
Does this knowledge make me use the computer correctly?... unfortunately not, but I have learned to run a good maintenance program daily that deals with the problem my sloppy usage has caused.
When was it 50/50? If you look at the statistics more female children are born to males. Females survive better than males. In the ambient societies males had more chance of dying(they were hunters) than females(who were gatherers). Males are reproductive almost all his life time while females reproductive age group is shorter. Males can reproduce all through out the year while female ability is restricted. And all primates do "adultery", and have usually multiple partners. And there are societies where females induce their husband to marry again as a rule and they live happily.
How then you deduced man is made to be polygamous?
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: (singular) and they shall be one flesh.
Polygamy surely indicates a multitude becoming one flesh?
God outlined it right up front, we just don't care to listen.
You better say, your god, which is your opinion, said so. There is nothing in human history/psychology/anthropology to say so!
Its just that, epilepsy has nothing to do with spirit but the gospel writers didn't know that. The rest of it, I won't comment for it'll be too long and second as its an emotive issue for you what I say will not be pleasant to you at all.
Feel free, I stand on the evidence of restoration that I view with increasing pleasure daily... my miraculous daughter, so nothing you will say with your constricted rationalist secular thinking will upset me or be unpleasant.
I have the PROOF, what could change that?
"At one point the medicines she was having inflicted had turned her into a semi vegetative state, where she had no balance, could not speak more than one syllable words and did nothing but sit in the chair between attacks."
So she did take treatment. I have seen this many times. The patients, where we have spent our maximum time and effort, when get out of the danger, go to some other modality of treatment/faith healing, finally when get back gives all the claim to the latest one, by simply forgetting that it is our effort that let them live in the first place and the rest happened naturally. Similarly you just give the credit to "spirit", though you should have given it to the doctors who treated her.
"Any condition that medical science has to tell me that they do not know what causes it, nor have a solution to how to CURE it, has at its root(IMO) a spiritual problem."
Certainly not, you may claim it a mental one though. There are some reasons why medical science is not able to know all the cause
1. It may not be a gross structural defect, like in the case of brain a cross connection of the brain cells may be the cause.
2. Micro-cellular problems, where it is defect in cells. Why we can't study these, because we have no sufficient technology, to analyse this sub microscopic structures in live state. Then we cannot experiment in live humans(there is limit) and no animal brain has the complexity of human brain to use as analogue.
So epilepsy can occur even with out any particular reason, due to hyper excitability of neurons which is due to its physiological defects, which again we cannot study properly. But the neurons are very plastic structure, its connections change over time, its hyper excitability reduces over time, especially with drugs that accelerate the process. So what happened was quite natural, though yo attribute it to supernatural.
If it was cerebral palsy, then your position might had more value, but even that should not be a surprise as it is proved that even if one half of brain is lost, the other half can take over and the person can live near normal to normal depending on the age at which the calamity occurred.
"Why did God allow us to be tormented for 5 years? "
If religions are to be believed god love more than a mother. No parent who love their children torment them what ever be the reason, so the loving god do something like that!!
We are human being, we need a cause for everything and we seek patterns, courtesy to our animal/wild nature. When we start thinking properly and understanding our limits, then only wisdom starts, age/maturity won't bring it, but an open mind, observation and a mind non-encumbered by dogmas, does it
As a side note: proofs and evidence are used to persuade a jury, and which side the proof sway depend on how well you can argue, that is there is no intrinsic merit for proof and evidence. You are explaining how something happened, then let it be rational and logical not supernatural and irrational.
For future reference, simply because you are confused on the matter doesn't mean the rest of us are. A broken relationship doesn't always equate to a failure. Maybe it did for you, but you aren't the totality of humanity.
He is claiming to be better informed about eternal aspects of life. I'm curious about those better places, because Christian marriage are not doing better than atheist marriages down here on earth.
If all the answers are up there, then whats stopping Christian superiority about love, sex and can you give us any better examples? Is Christian marriages really a better example for us all down here, can you give us any better examples?
I lived with atheists and a few clergymen, I will recognized the the better way when you tell me or if Christians can't tell me?
I think you find we are all in the same boat, until luck comes around. All we can do is wait, as for each one of us must do the work in preparing ourselves with personal growth, so when true love really comes, we will know.
Actually any Holy Spirit filled and led believer is better informed, however not ALL professing believers will go THAT far, so they stay less informed, and obviously as non believers can never get that far, they stay in the dark.
The level of Christian divorce simply shows that Churchianity no longer chooses to understand what God requires from us, and therefore has 'adapted' to suit what the world condones, rather than educate themselves and teach the people they represent, the truth.
If you are "curious about those better places" then if you ask, God will give you the insight, but are you prepared to get that involved?
All knowledge changes us, most are content to stay in their comfort zone.
Again, we must define true Christian marriage from the traditional 'lets get married in a church' variety.
Should I ever pastor a church, I doubt I would consent to marry couples who could not clearly understand what God required from them in that marriage, and were COMMITTED to staying with the program, so to speak.
Getting married in a church does not make the marriage Christian, it just confuses the statistics, though I agree that many high profile 'hirelings' who run big profit ministries have divorced and remarried, and condoned the matter.
Sorry can't actually understand that sentence!
"All we can do is wait" are the operative words there, and I advised my son to do just that, because my life pre faith was a classic example of what happens when you don't wait.
When I met my wife, I told her from the start that we would not enter into a sexual relationship UNTIL we were married, I had been celibate for a long time by then, and expected that she would never see me again (it was a first date) but guess what, she was pleased to meet a man who was not after getting into her knickers, and we waited nearly two years before we could marry.
We have been married 15 year, and life and marriage gets better each day, waiting has a whole lot to say for itself, and our 10 year old daughter is but one reward for faithfulness and obedience.
Sorry, a broken relationship may not be a failure, but a broken marriage always is, as marriage was never meant to be broken, that's why the words 'till death do us part' are (or were) in the 'vows' one made.
As it happens on both the occasions that my partners dumped me, it hurt at the time, and was the best thing that happened in the long run... my first left me for a good friend, and had a great 14 year marriage with him until he died, the second left me when I came to faith, which was also a hurt and a long term problem, but now she also lives with a great guy, who fortunately still lives!
Both of them get on fine with my wife, and my wife accepts that I seem to get on well with them, but I and they failed when we were 'divorced' because that was never the intention, however both failed because in the first neither of us were believers, and in the second we started of as non believers, then I changed the ground rules, and she left as she wanted nothing of Christ near her.
I failed in those relationships.
However NOW I have a good marriage to a wonderful believing wife, married 15 years and with a 10 year old daughter, and that will not fail, because when two people are drawn towards Christ, they grow closer together as the draw nearer to Him.
Christian vows or contracts mean little than the straight out love you give out to her. If that love fails, give her another 110% of your love, if that fails too, then you will know one thing........
If she love you like an orange, all you feel is all the juices squeeze out of you then you will feel like you have been thrown away, in other words she loved what the orange did for her, not the orange itself.
All I know is it it better to have loved than to never have had loved at all. There is nothing deader than a dead love if your assume love one has a dead love for you, it's time to go out in the world and find the build an other bigger and better love one for you and you will know when that love one is true, when you two are stronger together, than you two, are apart.
What God? or who else is your ultimate love
The line of the love relationship is clear:
Christ (and that is really the same thing)
When a whole family loves in that order, it thrives and survives, and is protected from the world, which should ALWAYS be last in the list.
That is the'secret', to have every member loving Christ first, then, as we draw closer to Him, we draw closer together.
* World, everything is glued together with love,.........God??? although do get a few great answers to life
Thank aguasilver never really made a list like this before
Sorry can't put Christ as the one and only God on my list, he owns too many fight clubs for me.
Good for you , that you found the one
Ephesians 5 17:33
Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
5Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
So, you are twice divorced. Doesn't sound like the average person I know. Nor does a 'broken' marriage represent a failure. It is attitudes like yours that cause the confusion. Makes people depressed and your attitude creates stigmas.
Sometimes, people simply marry for the wrong reasons. They weren't truly meant to be together. Sometimes people change. Sometimes a spouse becomes abusive. Sometimes life experience makes them grow apart.
I'm commited to my marriage. I was raised to see it as a life long contract. But I am lucky, or maybe I simply chose wisely who to fall in love with. Either way, that's just me. It isn't my place (or yours, if we are being honest) to sit in judgment by telling others they have failed when things don't end up rosy. When they are left to chose between happiness for themselves.....or making people like you, whom they don't even know, happy instead.
Not twice divorced, the first time around (16 years) we never married, and when she left with my friend, we just separated, second time (four years living together three years married) we married because she told me it would make our son being with me easier 'if' we split up, so she wanted to marry for my name on his birth certificate.
I raised him alone until my wife came into our lives.
But by Gods understanding, we marry when we 'become one flesh' when promise and consummation occurs, if there is no promise, it's simply fornication, which is why scripture defines it as they 'knew' each other (married) or they 'lay with each other' (fornication).
Being a child of the 60's, I did a lot of 'laying' and had two 'knews' before I met my wife.
How many people can honestly say they have ONLY been 'married' once by Gods standards?
I view it as a failure, and I am sure God saw my antics as failure to observe what He has defined, if others want to see it as 'it just didn't work out' so be it, I make no judgement, and if they feel that way, then they will feel no conviction of sin or error.
Agreed, and if you marry for the wrong (without God at the centre of the marriage) reasons, it is a shifting sand to base a relationship upon, I agree 100%, which seems to have a 50/50 chance of survival today.
Agreed, and I am not sitting in judgement on anyone, simply trying to explain that God DOES have a perfect plan, you have already discovered the secret, "COMMITTED to make it work", and I commend you for that, but I do not condemn those who have NOT discovered that secret, just suggest that finding out what the secret is, will improve their life dramatically.
A great marriage guidance program is called 'Love and Respect'
for 'Love and Respect', too bad the world is 7th on your list, oh well better than not at all.
The world is number seven because that's where it deserves to be, and when I keep that order in function, my dealings with the world work better.
I deal internationally with a wide variety of people, probably 90% of them are non believers or believers in a different belief system than I do, frequently I have to deal in situations where people are greedy, corrupt and very worldly in their approach to business, but by keeping the relationship in the correct order, I seem to be able to create business scenarios that benefit ALL of those I deal with, so MY observance benefits those in the world who maybe put the world first (bad mistake)and probably find me a pain in the arse, but recognise that what I say makes business sense, i.e. a deal must work for everyone, and not screw anyone.
A Godly business transaction, or no deal (with me).
So the world will stay on the list at seventh place, until I can turn away from dealings with the world and concentrate on full time ministry, at which time it will stay at number seven, but no longer need my participation.
Spiritual means 99% unknown World and Universe. Each person has an ego, an even higher level of ego, is a group, in which all contributes to an over ego world.
My respect and love for the world comes from seeing the World as my family. As life is 50% about me and 50% is about everyone else. Because 90% of the world consensus is that God exists, in some form or in some degrees. In order to respect and love all Nature, People is by envisioning everyone and thing is God or as God
Your view is too much one sided by blind faith toward your one and only group claiming the be all of God. A one sided God view is missing out on the awareness of so many kinds of gods, people and things and to so many other degrees of truth.
Having toured every continent on earth, I can honesty and openly say, that woman is the most beautiful creature on earth . It easy to pick the World AS number one, and number two- Woman.
What is more needed in this world today is more kindness and love rather than more Religion.
I see humanity as Gods family, and yes we are to love them.
I see the World as the machinations of individuals, groups, business and nations, who are mainly under the control of the enemy, not God, by choice, not design.
Our task whilst on earth is to bring creation back to the Creator, and that dictates that we are to be "of the world, but not IN it" so we interact and work away, but should not conjoin.
I try to do just that.
I deal daily with the world, but I am careful NOT to become a part of the problem, trying to stay part of the solution.
Some days I fail, hence we repent and ask forgiveness, something which the World rarely does unless disaster strikes.
It is precisely because Christ made the 'one and only' declaration, that believers take that stance.
If I ask a taxi driver to take me to an unknown destination, and he drives down little used roads to get there, but when I question his route, he states " Believe me THIS is the best and ONLY way to get where you asked me to take you" I have two choices, sit back and observe the journey, or get out of the cab and take my chances going the way everyone else seems to be driving.
I live with an amazing variety of multicultural and multi religious folk in SE Asia, I daily mix with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and many generational Chinese god followers, and of course with those who have no god whatsoever except money (the world)and have accepted that all or most of them are genuinely good and nice people, maybe with some generational traits that cause problems, but still at heart good people, and have long pondered how THEY fit into Gods plans, and found no satisfactory answer, however, as I meet with them (in social interaction and business)I see that some will be open to hearing about Christ, so who knows?
Many people who I have worked for, with or employed in the past 20 years have come to faith in Christ, not by strident evangelism (in Malaysia where I live, a Muslim state, it is illegal for me to evangelise openly to any Muslim)but by exposure to how Christ guides our lives.
I stopped trying to fit God into a box years ago, now I just try to fit my life into His box.
From a non aligned viewpoint, I can understand why you believe that, and in the end result, it's your choice, all I do is point out what I have also observed, having tried to find the answers every which way, until I found what I personally know to be truth.
I make no presumption that we should agree, nor that you must accept my claims, or those of Christ, I merely expound them to those who will listen, and hope that in time they will understand what is conveyed by Christ, and His body of believers.
My experience and understanding, based upon a wide worldly viewpoint, has led me to accept that Christ (not religion) is the solution to that need.
Yes you accepted Christ for yourself, one of but many paths to the same end.
...and that opinion is your prerogative also, and I respect that you can hold it and may be right, if you are, then all pathways do lead to God.
It's called pantheism, I rejected it when I realised that all the pathways had been blocked by humanities transgressions, but that (IMO) God had sent His Son to open ONE pathway, and He stands there today keeping that pathway open.
And my path ahs nothing to do with religion and or God/gods, they have little to do with men. I do not accept the God/gods of men, for they are not mine.
When most of the world's population is not aware of JC and when most of us and other types like me who are not into JC. When we all are floating down the rivers of burning lava, you can hang over the edge of hell, you then are allowed to be, yelling I TOLD YOU SO!!! so, DIE DIE you stupid Dummies
Actually most of the worlds population ARE aware of Christ, that was what the 'Great Commission' was all about, and believers have been spectacularly successful in ensuring that each people group has been told about Christ, last I heard we were almost there!
As for the whole Hell issue, I would never be found hanging their yelling what you said, if that were the scenario.
I see no pleasure in thinking people will suffer eternally for their rejection of Christ, nor irrefutable evidence that what you describe as Hell exists, but I do see that God is obliged to provide a place where those who refuse to be with Him can be placed for eternity, for we are eternal souls.
Now I have some work to do!
I know from my museum display studies and from first hand traveling everywhere. From this observation and my own studies first hand, most people are not aware or JC
The more a person claims to know what God is all about, the more elusive and evasive that person becomes of GOD. Hell is a man made concept design to control the masses, other than that, hell is a fake fear mongering motivation with the absence of reason which is the worst kind of evil mankind has ever invented
http://www.joshuaproject.net/great-comm … istics.php
Of the 16,788 people groups by country, 6,956 are still considered unreached.
9,832 people groups by country are not considered unreached, totaling 3,983,274,000 individuals, or about 58% of the world's population.
Of the 16,788 total people groups, 6,956 are identified as unreached using Joshua Project criteria, totaling 2,841,321,000 individuals.
Of these 6,956 groups, 5,891 are in 10/40 Window countries.
That means 85% of all unreached people groups are in the 10/40 Window. (Muslims)
1,065 of the unreached groups are NOT in the 10/40 Window, totaling 84,058,000 individuals. These groups are relatively accessible to the Gospel.
Of the 6,956 Unreached people groups, about 3,554 (51%) are small groups under 10,000 in population (or population unknown) and all these groups total less than 8,000,000 individuals.
Of the remaining 3,402 unreached groups, about 1,315 are under 50,000 in population.
That leaves 2,087 Unreached groups 50,000 and over in population.
Which means there is still time before Christ returns, which in itself is good news!
Of course the 85% of all unreached people groups in the 10/40 Window (Muslims)also consider we worship the same god, so it is a moot point (which I do not care to comment on here) whether they are reached or not?
Traditionally 'reached' means they have a knowledge of Christ and who He says He is, and Muslims are certainly aware of Christ, the Quran deals with Him, they just have been taught that Christ was no more than a prophet, so (IMO) they have been 'reached' just not (YET) responded, which is natural as they are forbidden to explore Christ, and will be killed if they converted to Christ.
I believe God will deal with this in a spectacular fashion when the time is right.
So if 85% of the 42% who are considered 'unreached' have actually heard about Christ, that leaves in reality 6.3% who could claim to have NEVER heard about Christ... so maybe not so long to await His return!
To be clear, there is no obligation for ALL people to accept Christ, just that ALL should have heard about Him, and be therefore able to accept or reject Him.
I have expressed my opinions about Hell sufficiently on the forum, and in my hubs, that it needs no further clarification.
I have not met anyone personally that has traveled more places on earth than myself, have read about the odd person that may have done more.
Your numbers may work in Disney Holy lands, but not in the real world , where Muslim only make one out of 10,000 religions out there and so many other cultures off the map. Then you have an assumed 1/3 Christianity that has has 38,000 denomination in which many disagree with each other to the point of calling each other hierarchic, cults or sometimes go to war.
I find Christianity are more like separatist of the world, much like Jesus said, "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)
Adultery; what is it?
Wasn't it once stated that Man should not convert his neighbor's Ox?
Crazy as this may sound, God designed us to be monogamous with one partner from start to finish, the enemy managed to divert that plan plenty, especially in the sixties for our generation, and I assume most of us have had multiple 'partners'?
= = --
First let me say Howdy to all who has posted.
I agree with most everything that has been posted yet I'm still AH thinkin that it goes much deeper than that.
I can't think of the right words for what I'm wanting to say. As I am getting older ,my vocabulary seems to be receding faster than my hair line.
There is a term for (anytime) two components come together they attempt to merge on a basic level, the two becoming one with few exceptions such as oil and water.
When two people come together exchanging bodily fluids there is a chemical reaction that does affect each persons physical being.
This is the way we were designed.
This whole process is adulterated when multiple participants are involved.
I’m still not expressing what I’m thinking properly. Maybe I'm just having a brain Fart? I'm sure there many who will agree with that last statement.
Marriage Is Sacred and Binding
31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality[e] causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery
this passage is from the sermon on the mount, and what it says is there is only one reason for divorce, and that is if the woman commits adultery, and if the man divorces his wife for any other reason, and she marries someone else he causes her to commit adultery. the purpose of this is to show them that one, marriage is forever, two they are sinners,and three restate the law as it was originally intended. why did Jesus do this? He was talking to the pharisees or the "spiritually elite" and they had changed the law so that they were allowing men to divorce their wives for any reason like,"she burnt my toast." they thought they were keeping the law, and the law says if you cause someone else to sin it is a sin. Jesus, in the sermon on the mount was trying to wake up these religous people, and get them to see how bad they really are. so they would come to Him and be saved. i'm not sure about this, but i think that divorce was only allowed by men. the women couldn't divorce their husbands, they could only leave them. i think that women weren't recognized by the courts as people. they weren't allowed to testify or file a complaint or anything legal.
"According to both Paul's and Christ's teachings (Mark 10: 1-12), believers should not divorce. If separation does occur, the believer must either remain unmarried permanently or be reconciled permanently." (The Ryrie Study Bible notes.)
Mark 10: 5-12 (NAS)
"But Jesus said to them, 'Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.' (This refers to verse 4 when the Pharisees answered, 'Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away'.) 'But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.
1 Cor. 7:10-11
"But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, let her remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not send his wife away."
1 Cor. 7:12-15 (These verses deal with marriages in which one partner becomes a believer after the marriage.)
If the unbeliever consents live with her/his spouse, let him/her not send the unbelieving spouse away.
If the unbelieving partner chooses to separate, the believer must accept it, though everything should be done to prevent the separation. Nothing is said about a second marriage for the believer.
Oops, I accidentally hit submit!
Matt. 7: 7-12
"'For this cause a man shall leave his father andmother, and the two shall become one flesh; consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'
And He said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.'"
So, after a divorce, each commits adultery if he/she remarries.
I hadn't yet put quotation marks around "If the unbelieving partner... second marriage for the believer." Sorry!
Which goes completely against what God and Yahshua taught
Re: "You have recently submitted a very similar post, posting the same message repeatedly is prohibited."
Could you not read, "Oops. I accidentally hit submit!" I hadn't finished, nor did I want to be guilty of plagerism by not showing proper quotation marks.
My only idea as to why the woman could hypothetically be wrong would be that she gave up and didn't try to mend the marriage. However, I guess that this type of woman would describe me if I was ever cheated on by my hubby.
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