1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?
Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)
6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)
7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?
Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)
8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?
Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)
9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)
10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9
For more contradiction see the link below
these contradictions show that the Bible is not authentic.
It is amazing on how much all of us argue over religion and disclaim each other , which really bugs the bejeebers out of me.
1. The Bible is Authentic however it has been re-written or corrected we as Christians realize that it does contradict itself, King James put his 2 cents in there as well and that is why there is the King James Bible. I am not a preacher therefore I am not going to spend the rest of my morning arguing. To sit and disclaim our religion over yours is wrong and ungodly just as much as many disclaim the muslim religion. None of us are SAINTS of God and if we claim to be therefore, we will be lying to ourselves . The Bible is written for practical purposes so that we are guided by GOD himself. I do Believe that Jesus was the Son of God and nobody can change what I believe in. I realzie that I will always fight for our Lord and Saviour and I will put the full armour on and do so , but as you know as open minded as I am I am certainly not going to argue over books at the Qaa'ran has also been re-written so out of due respect be careful with pointing fingers as it could come back and bite you in the bum and you know the bite isn't going to from me.:::
So true AEvans. But Jeromeo is right. 2 Samuel 24: 1 does not contradict I Chronicles 21:1. And if we took the time to go through all 10 of daeemomin's "contradictions" I'm sure, by comprehending the Bible correctly that we would find that they are not contradictions at all.
The titles of the Books in the King James Bible are different in the Douay-Rheims Bible but the writings and meaning are basically the same. For instance 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel in the King James Bible is 1 Kings and 2 Kings in the Douay-Rheims Bible and there are 4 Books on Kings in the Douay-Rheims Bible. And 1 Chronicles and 2 Chronicles in the King James Bible is 1 Paralipomenon and 2 Paralipomenon in the Douay-Rheims Bible. The same way Revelations in the King James Bible is Apocalypse in the Douay-Rheims Bible. I like using the Douay-Rheims Bible obviously because I am Catholic but also because it was translated from Jerrome's translation of the Latin Vulgate which was a translation of the original Greek and Hebrew text. But when I compare the above King James Bible with the Douay-Rheims Bible I basically get the same writings and meaning, so the King James Bible would have had to use the same source. The difference between the titles of the Books would be because both Bibles were translated into English around the same period in history, one by the Church of England, the other by Catholics in France. It's nice to be able to compare them and mostly come to the same conclusion.
In 2 Samuel 24, which is 2 Kings 24 in the Douay-Rheims Bible it says David numbers the people, God sends a pestilence, which is stopped by David's prayer and sacrifice.
In I Chronicles 21, which is 1 Paralipomenon 21 in the Douay-Rheims Bible it says David's sin in numbering the people is punished by a pestilence, which ceased upon his offering sacrifice in the thrashing floor of Ornan.
So 2 Samuel 24: 1 does not contradict I Chronicles 21:1 at all.
A contradiction may occur with the lack of comprehension. This happens a lot when one verse in one Book is compared to one verse in another Book. But generally when both chapters are read in full it is comprehended correctly. It's nice to see that these so called "contradictions" even lead atheists to read the Bible.
You might be interested to read that one of the stories dictated to Mohamed by the angel was actually written by Luke at least 500 years before the Quran was written. You can read about it in daeemomin's thread titled what Quran says about Jesus and Mary. I replied to daeemomin twice but he hasn't replied back so the thread is not long. I find this one fascinating.
Shall we move on to daeemomin's second "contradiction". We can clear them all up right within this thread.
I think you want to say that Quran is a copy of Bible because of some similarities. But the fact is that the similarities between the Qur’an and the Bible do not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal God. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these Judeo-Christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.
It is true that there are some similar parallels between the Qur’an and the Bible but this is not sufficient to accuse Muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the Bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of Christianity and Judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that Jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine Prophet (God forbid) and that he simply copied from the Old Testament.
The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true God and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.
For more see these links:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Proof-that-Qura … rized-book
Mike please do move on, as I haven't seen any responses frm him either. I also see what Jeromeo is saying and I also agree if you found time to go through them we would see that it isn't contradictory, but how many of us are going to to do that? You and Jeromeo are great at this, maybe you two could split it, and quote on it. What do you think?
Well I was thinking about going through all 10 of daeemomin's so called "contradictions". I see he has replied a couple of times now. But we are not getting through to him. I have no doubt that all 10 of his so called "contradictions" are not contradictions at all. But seeing we are not getting through to him about either the so called "contradictions" or that a lot of the stories in the Quran seem to be a copy of the Bible that was written about 500 years before it seems like I'd be wasting my time. So I'm going to take your advice and pass on it. In fact I'm wasting too much time in these forums, especially when I have my own forum that I have been neglecting lately. Besides daeemomin has a link to both the Douay-Rheims Bible and King James Bible if he ever decided that he wanted to take a clear unbiased look. But he seems to be coming to these forums just to slander Christianity like so many others that frequent this place. I might drop in here once a week or so from now on. But I'm definetely not going to waste the time that I have been in here anymore.
I really just want to know Mike, how come you can call the Qua'ran a copy of the Bible (more or less) because it was written 500 years after Jesus but the Bible or stories of Jesus cannot be copies even older stories from the Greek or Egyptian, or otherwise written much more than 500 years prior?
I really just want to know Mike, how come you can call the Qua'ran a copy of the Bible (more or less) because it was written 500 years after Jesus but the Bible or stories of Jesus cannot be copies even older stories from the Greek or Egyptian, or otherwise written much more than 500 years prior?
You must notice that I have cited 101 contradictions, not 10. Explore the link http://hubpages.com/hub/101contradictionsinthebible for the rest 91contradictions.
If five hundred thousand and five hundred thousand are same to you, if seven and three are equal to you, if twenty two and forty two are same digits according to you, if eighteen and eight both are equal, if eight hundred and three hundred are equal to you, then there is no contradiction in Bible. If these digits are not equal as they are, then Bible is full of contradictions.
I have already answered to your fallacy that Quran is a copy of Bible. Quran is free of contradictions. I reproducing that answer here so that you can see:
No, the stories which we find in the Bible are in distorted form, full with contradictions. For the sake of argument if we agree that Quran is a copy of Bible, then according to the same logic Bible must be a copy of previous revelations?
Your claim that Quran is plagiarized from Bible only shows that you have neither read Bible correctly nor Quran. Quran didn’t copy from the Bible. It rather corrected the Bible. I think you didn’t see the links I referred to.
I will cite only one example here. See how Quran narrates the story of Prophet Noah in a very decent language and how Bible portrays Prophet Noah.
Genesis 9:20-24 (King James Version)
20And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT A DIGNIFIED PROPHET. SHAME ON THOSE WHO BELIEVE IT.
Quran has mentioned about Prophet Noah in several chapters. There is a whole chapter (chapter 71 Noah) in Quran about Prophet Noah. See how Quran mentions his endeavor in a respectable manner.
“1. We sent Noah to his People (with the Command): "Do thou warn thy People before there comes to them a grievous Penalty." 2. He said: "O my People! I am to you a Warner, clear and open: 3. "That ye should worship Allah, fear Him and obey me: 4. "So He may forgive you your sins and give you respite for a stated Term: for when the Term given by Allah is accomplished, it cannot be put forward: if ye only knew." 5. He said: "O my Lord! I have called to my People night and day: 6. "But my call only increases (their) flight (from the Right). 7. "And every time I have called to them, that Thou mightest forgive them, they have (only) thrust their fingers into their ears, covered themselves up with their garments, grown obstinate, and given themselves up to arrogance. 8. "So I have called to them aloud; 9. "Further I have spoken to them in public and secretly in private, 10. "Saying, 'Ask forgiveness from your Lord; for He is Oft-Forgiving; 11. "'He will send rain to you in abundance; 12. "'Give you increase in wealth and sons; and bestow on you gardens and bestow on you rivers (of flowing water).13. "'What is the matter with you, that ye place not your hope for kindness and long-suffering in Allah,- 14. "'Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages? 15. "'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, 16. "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp? 17. "'And Allah has produced you from the earth growing (gradually), 18. "'And in the End He will return you into the (earth), and raise you forth (again at the Resurrection)? 19. "'And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out), 20. "'That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.'" 21. Noah said: "O my Lord! They have disobeyed me, but they follow (men) whose wealth and children give them no increase but only Loss. 22. "And they have devised a tremendous Plot. 23. "And they have said (to each other), 'Abandon not your gods: Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa', neither Yaguth nor Ya'uq, nor Nasr';- 24. "They have already misled many; and grant Thou no increase to the wrong- doers but in straying (from their ark)." 25. Because of their sins they were drowned (in the flood), and were made to enter the Fire (of Punishment): and they found- in lieu of Allah. none to help them. 26. And Noah, said: "O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers, a single one on earth! 27. "For, if Thou dost leave (any of) them, they will but mislead Thy devotees, and they will breed none but wicked ungrateful ones. 28. "O my Lord! Forgive me, my parents, all who enter my house in Faith, and (all) believing men and believing women: and to the wrong-doers grant Thou no increase but in perdition!"”
Could this be a copy of Bible. Could a copy (i.e., the Qur’an, according to the allegation) correct the claimed original (i.e., Bible)?
First use your intellect to know the truth. Then employ your emotions to defend it and promote it. You are doing the reverse. First employing your emotions you accepted the Bible as authentic. And then you are using your intellect to prove it.
here is my reply:
There are two things in human personality: intellect and emotions. The correct sequence of using them is in the same order. If you are intellectually convinced that a certain view is correct, it’s only then that you should employ your emotions to act upon your views and to disseminate them. If you will reverse the sequence, you will be guilty of ignoring the truth, which is a serious crime. The suggestion is difficult to practice. But it is vital if you want to live and die as a truth seeking person.
In religious matters, if you will place your emotions before your intellect, you may find yourself categorized as a biased criminal in the eyes of God. In case you correct the sequence, you will progress leaps and bounds in religious awareness.
first use your intellect to know whether Bible is a word of God or not. Then employ your emotions.
I'll just take the first "contradiction".
Once again the fault lies with the way the reader reads the Scripture.
The Scripture clearly says when read correctly that God, became Hot with Israel...When -[one]meaning-Satan. incited David to take a count of Israel.
In fact if read correctly you can see that 1Chron. 21:1 actually explains who "One" is...as opposed to contradicting 2 Samuel 24:1.
With all due respect reading comprehension is a valuable tool in understanding and getting the sense of things, especially when you decide to call the word of God a lie.
I am sure that close investigation of all 100 of your contradictions will reveal a flaw in your ability to comprehend, and translate to true understanding what you read.
How about you go back and read them again and make the corrections needed and then if you're really honest say a prayer of apology to Jehovah, just a thought.
Jeremeo - The fault lies that you are unable to accept what your bible says. despite the fact that there is a clear contradiction, you have chosen to say, "well, it is the word of god, therefore I will adjust what it actually says and say that the following statement, which contradicts the first one is actually an explanation that the first statement was incorrect, so I am back to being able to say it is perfect ."
2 Samuel 24
"Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah.""
No doubt here - it is god telling David. I couldn't do the booming voice from the heavens, so I had to make do with bold.
1 Chronicles 21
"Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel."
The bible is wrong, and you have chosen to disregard the first statement because it is contradicted by the second.
It is not an explanation, it is a clear contradiction. It doesn't say
1 Chronicles 21 (according to Jeremeo) "We were just kidding when we said God told David to take the census, 'cause it's obvious that wouldn't happen, god being such an awesome dude and all, so this is what really happened. Sorry - we were just messin' with ya,"
That does not take away the contradiction. There is no fault in my ability to read a simple statement like this.
Oh, and I have no intention of apologizing to your imaginary friend, just because He was too cheap to employ a decent editor
maybe because God said to count Israel and Judah, and Satan said only Isreal. Then God got pissed off because he took an unfair count leaving some out,, which looks like Judah.
Ehh, who knows...
I was just visiting the hubpages to apologize for the personal attack on your IQ, on the gay marriage forum, so let me get that out the way, I apologize.
No lets see about this contradiction business.
(1 Chronicles 21:1) And [Satan} proceeded to stand up against Israel [and to incite]...David to number Israel.
(2 Samuel 24:1) And again the anger of [Jehovah] came to be hot against Israel, [when one incited] David against them, saying: “Go, take a count of Israel and Judah.”
Now unless Satan and Jehovah are the same person the distinction is clear. not because Jeromeo said so, but if you read it right the proof is right here in front of [YOU]. I won't attack your IQ, this time, but maybe you need some rest, or are you so afraid of being wrong about Atheism you're seeing things?
And the idea of apologizing to my Friend was just a suggestion, I am sure he can take care of his own light work, in his own way.
I know you didn't need the apology but, what the hey, right is right.
Apology accepted, albeit un-necessary.
But the passages you are quoting are not what it says in the New International Version. It says this:
Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.
No [brackets to explain things]
Lets see if we can broil this down, using accepted sentence structure, and what is written before us. And what make sense of this.
When we search for the intended meaning of what is written we have to direct our minds to explore the context, of the things written.
It is evident that God did not want the census taken, but by being incited by Satan, David, David became haughty and used his authority as King to defy God and commanded the count against Jehovah's wishes . So it makes sense that God would be mad at David.
Especially when we read in 2 Samuel 24:7 that God exacted punishment upon David for his error and David in 2 Samuel 24: 8 admits to being foolish.
I see a clear contradiction here just as you say Mark. But I would question the, [editor] who translated the Bible to the New International Translation.
In other words I give the benefit of the doubt to my invisible but very real Friend Jehovah, the same [Source] of the wisdom that helps me to understand the true meaning and get the sense of what I read in the Scriptures
What I see is the word [one] replaced with [he.] I see he is in lower case letters, were as traditionally...when referring to GOD, He is either capitalized or, HE, in all Capitol letters.
In the bracketed version I merely tried to isolate the terms used so you could see that the Noun, one was written in lower case letters to signify someone lesser than God.
It is obvious to me that when the translator of the N.I.V. translated that verse he presumed, wrongly that the original writer was referring to God, he/the original writer, whom he had just properly named as the [ONE/GOD ] initiating a response to the, David's being incited by [one/Satan.]
omg, it really does seem like the reason David was punished was fair taken an unfair census. If he had taken a good count to include everyone instead of leaving some out.
it would make sense then as to why the numbered people are condradictive and entirely not worth believing because the message is more important. and God was probaby angry because now we can see that since and inacurate census was taken, it becomes false and true.
false as in you cannot trust this word for word, but the message was true, which would be that he shouldn't have taken a cesus in to begin with unless he was able to take an accurate count, thus he was told not to do it.
The same exist today. if you cannot count everyone, then do not take any count at all because it becomes either divided or together.
and more presumably, there is absolutely no way that a real count could ever be taken, so stop counting.
moreso, just for sake of arguement, if Jehovahas witness continue to count the number of their people, and miss one, even one that belongs to God, then what do you think God will do?
I am glad you have bought up 2 issues here. I was hoping you would.....
The capital H
The New King James version uses a capital H - so I presume they were thinking it was god that gave the instruction.
The editor - If the editor is at fault, how can this be the word of god?
Speaking personally, any sentence I write - I aim to be as clear as possible; god-like accuracy is my goal yet god is unable to do this?
There was another issue to be considered...Mark or two really continuity and context. whether it be New King James or old King James or New International Version or whatever. In the end it's got to make sense. The version you choose to accept does not make sense.
Finding and understanding the sacred secrets of the Bible takes dedication, and meditation, and a strong belief in the existence of God. You don't believe?...So you don't see it. But then again, who do you use for your [GOD-Like]...accuracy...[Freudian Slip?]...Roll Model, and high literary standards ummm?
I will admit that man writing, on behalf of god may have added some confusion to the WORD, but that's what research and [meditation] is for. In the end it's got to make sense.
I think YOU really believe in God, you're just testing the rest of us to see if we have the strength of our convictions. Did I pass?
No Jeromeo - You are wrong on all counts.
I do not believe in god, I see no evidence for god and am convinced there is no such thing, and I am not testing your convictions.
You certainly have strength of conviction, if you think I was testing you, but I see that as a weakness. Even you have agreed that the bible is written by man and confusing. The only thing that allows you to see past that is blind obedience to the idea that the bible is god's word.
Even when faced with an obvious contradiction, that you admit is there, you stick doggedly to the idea that it MUST be right, even when it is clearly wrong.
I choose no version of the bible as correct, I merely point out the fact that there are several, and they do not agree. They are all wrong, and all the work of men. Yet you choose the one that has been re-written to lessen the obvious contradictions.
It makes no sense to me. Sorry. None whatsoever.
I mean, when I think about it, how much sense does it make that the universe was created by an omnipotent being that wants me to worship Him blindly in exchange for eternal life? And every fibre of my being tells me you are wrong, mis-guided and blind to the contradictions that mean you have to have faith for it to make sense.
And there are a number of contradicting religions that say the same thing.
No sense at all.
Try stepping back and looking at what you have just said to me from a different perspective.
It only makes sense if you already have a "strong belief in the existence of god."?
Anything could make sense if you already believe it is correct......
The mere fact that it stands up to no tests whatsoever is enough for me. Especially when I see the faithful arguing as to what is correct. There is more than one bible Jeromeo. Yet you disagree with some of them. Think about that and who is determining what is god's word.
And on that note Mark we will agree to disagree, for now. I know you're not testing me Mark. Here's my point. I will admit to certain passages in the Bible being confusing and contradictory.
But the [Bible as published through those inspired by god to write, is a complete work. A living manuscript if you will. And the Bible as such, if read for the purpose it was written, Does not contradict itself, it maintains a particular theme the promises a certain future, whether you believe in [It] or not.
And understanding and accepting the purpose for which the Bible was written, helps to identify the confusion that man has interjected by tampering with the Bible.
I respect your tight not to believe, in God, and understand that your, no-non sense intellectual approach to life period, leaves no room for what you consider, unfounded, religious speculation, that which is taken on faith and cannot be proved other wise.
Like I said before I usually learn something new every time we exchange different view points. So whether you agree with me or not I don't consider it as time wasted, when we debate our different views on the importance of having a Spiritually directed existence and or to believe in God.
One of us is misguided in his basic understanding of life and what it's all about, and only time will [reveal] which one.
In the mean time, till the next time we meat on opposing sides an intellectual exchange, keep on being you and have a good one.
Last note. Since you used the term [God-Like.] It reveals your concept of being [Godly] is that of one, being perfect. The question is what God do you refer to and where does He come from?
It was a deliberate joke
But if I was going to choose one, it would have to be the Flying Spaghetti Monster
So at last you “admit to certain passages in the Bible being confusing and contradictory.” Bible cannot be a word of God. Any ordinary book can have such contradictions. But In the WORD OF GOD there should be no discrepancies. God is perfect and His word should also be perfect.
Quran says: "Don't they ponder over the Quran, had it been from anyone besides Allah, they would surely have found therein many contradictions.” (4:82)
These contradictions show that the present Bible is not the books which were revealed of Jesus and Mosses. The originality of those books has been distorted by people. With these contractions how can you say that its message remains intact? These contradictions tell about the DISTORTIONS made in the book revealed to Jesus and Mosses.
A thousand contradictions does not belie the fact that the Bible is a grand source of wisdom, understanding, ethical insight, narrative genius and inspiration. What is more it is the narrative foundation of our civilization. It is a good thing that we are ferreting out all the contradictions because at least it proves someone is reading the bible these days. I teach high school and find that only about one in ten students can even begin to recount the good samaritin story. Biblical illiteracy is a real problem in a variety of contexts, not the least of which is understanding biblical allusions in literature, or understanding the basic ethical vision behind much of western history or in understanding western fine art.
Is this the WORD OF GOD,grand source of wisdom, understanding, ethical insight, narrative genius and inspiration????
I dont think God speaks such a vulgar language!!
Two Adulterous Sisters
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother. 3 They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed. 4 The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem.
5 "Oholah engaged in prostitution while she was still mine; and she lusted after her lovers, the Assyrians-warriors 6 clothed in blue, governors and commanders, all of them handsome young men, and mounted horsemen. 7 She gave herself as a prostitute to all the elite of the Assyrians and defiled herself with all the idols of everyone she lusted after. 8 She did not give up the prostitution she began in Egypt, when during her youth men slept with her, caressed her virgin bosom and poured out their lust upon her.
9 "Therefore I handed her over to her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted. 10 They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword. She became a byword among women, and punishment was inflicted on her.
11 "Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13 I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way.
14 "But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeans [a] portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea. [b] 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled. [c]
22 "Therefore, Oholibah, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will stir up your lovers against you, those you turned away from in disgust, and I will bring them against you from every side- 23 the Babylonians and all the Chaldeans, the men of Pekod and Shoa and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them, handsome young men, all of them governors and commanders, chariot officers and men of high rank, all mounted on horses. 24 They will come against you with weapons, [d] chariots and wagons and with a throng of people; they will take up positions against you on every side with large and small shields and with helmets. I will turn you over to them for punishment, and they will punish you according to their standards. 25 I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury. They will cut off your noses and your ears, and those of you who are left will fall by the sword. They will take away your sons and daughters, and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire. 26 They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry. 27 So I will put a stop to the lewdness and prostitution you began in Egypt. You will not look on these things with longing or remember Egypt anymore.
28 "For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am about to hand you over to those you hate, to those you turned away from in disgust. 29 They will deal with you in hatred and take away everything you have worked for. They will leave you naked and bare, and the shame of your prostitution will be exposed. Your lewdness and promiscuity 30 have brought this upon you, because you lusted after the nations and defiled yourself with their idols. 31 You have gone the way of your sister; so I will put her cup into your hand.
This is God condemning the nation of Israel for mixing sacred worship with the nations and forsaking pure worship. And yes H is comparing the merchants of Israel to prostitutes.
The passage refers to Egypt is a reminder of the persecution they nation of Israel was suffering when God rescued them.
What you are witnessing is Jehovah's jealous side, and the pain he feels form being betrayed for things that are wicked.
You have to study the Bible to understand it. You have to meditate on what you read to get the sense of what is being said, and why.
Let me suggest you start at the beginning. And forget everything you think you know.
My question is why God would use this type of vulgar language to convey a story that has nothing to with sex? Moreover, these expressions have been repeated here several times. We can’t imagine any decent man using this vulgar language. How could this be WORD OF GOD?
“Their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed”
“She lusted after her lovers”
“During her youth men slept with her, caressed her virgin bosom and poured out their lust upon her.”
“They stripped her naked”
“Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust”
“She carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness”
“She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.”
This only tells about the distortions made in the revelation of God. Quran points out to this:
“Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.
Behold! when they meet the men of Faith, they say: "We believe": But when they meet each other in private, they say: "Shall you tell them what Allah hath revealed to you, that they may engage you in argument about it before your Lord?"- Do ye not understand (their aim)?
Know they not that Allah knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal?
And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.” (Quran-Chapter: 2, verse 75-79)
I ask myself this as well, the things you pointed out daeedmomin. It seems rather obsurd for God to say such things in such a mannor and also, what I see distorted is that if these women were prostitutes then it would mean that they were not virgins.
Moreso it seems as those these women were being raped and if this is suppose to indicate a virgin spirit to the "true God", then it is more likely that these women were not defiling others ( though it suggest that they were doing it, but it seems the other way around) but they were being defiled because of their virgin spirit.
However it reads, I don't consider their punishment and act of God. It (no offense) sounds more like they were being persecuted by (satan) men who believed that they were wicked for believing in God, thus their virgin.
(2 Samuel 24:9) Jo′ab now gave the number of the registration of the people to the king; and Israel amounted to eight hundred thousand valiant men drawing sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.
(1 Chronicles 21:5) Jo′ab now gave the number of the registration of the people to David; and all Israel amounted to a million one hundred thousand men drawing sword, and Judah four hundred and seventy thousand men drawing sword.
(1 chronicles 21:4) The king’s word, however, prevailed over Jo′ab, so that Jo′ab went out and walked through all Israel, after which he came to Jerusalem. 5 Jo′ab now gave the number of the registration of the people to David; and all Israel amounted to a million one hundred thousand men drawing sword, and Judah four hundred and seventy thousand men drawing sword. 6 And Le′vi and Benjamin he did not register in among them, because the king’s word had been detestable to Jo′ab
Once again when compared side by side the accurate accounts shows that, though Jo'ab had the number as written, Jo'ab did not report the total number of men leaving out the total numbers of the tribes of Le'vi and Benjamin.
See the bottom post in this thread concerning the stories prior to the Bible.
No more needs to be said.
What about the fact the Bible uses vulgar language and portrays Prophets as drunken and naked Whereas Quran mentions them in a very dignified manner?
My question has not been answered yet.
Could a copy (i.e., the Qur’an, according to the allegation) correct the claimed original (i.e., Bible)?
One book (Quran) says:
“And indeed it is a Book of exalted power. No falsehood can approach it from before or behind it: It is sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all Praise.” (Chapter: 41, verse 41-42)
In the other book (Bible) it is written that:
“Yet the King James Version has grave defects”
“these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision”
See the Preface to the Revised Standard Version (1971)
by heavenbound55115 years ago
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