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Athiests, why bother visiting insane Christian forums?

  1. Claire Evans profile image90
    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago

    If somebody truly believed that Santa was God, I would not even bother addressing that person because the insane CANNOT be reasoned with.

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      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Unless Santa actually was God. Your point is begging the question.

      If someone has personally seen and spoken with God, does that make them insane?

      1. pisean282311 profile image56
        pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        @jaxon yes...psychiatrist can treat that person for the symptoms you mentioned...it is advisable for such person to take expert opinion...

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          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You assume that it didn't really happen. What if it did?

          1. nightwork4 profile image60
            nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            the whole point is that contrary to a religious person's beliefs, there isn't any way that some god visited them but let babies die, let cities get destroyed from natural disasters etc.

            1. wilmiers77 profile image60
              wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Historically, God has confronted the people where their minds were at the time. Who is say how God should develop eternal humans?

              It was and is the sins of the people that caused all catastrophes. God allows because He gave us freedom of choice; chose God's Will or learn what happens if one or the people doesn't.

              1. Philanthropy2012 profile image90
                Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You seem like an intelligent person, I would love your opinions on this hub showing that we cannot have free will if we were actively created.


                <link snipped - no promotional links>



                Selfless self promotion? Yes. But it was God's will that this happened.

                1. Insane Mundane profile image60
                  Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  He types in multiple colors while not believing in the diversity of life; how sad...

                  1. Philanthropy2012 profile image90
                    Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you for your useful and insightful comment, I enjoyed it almost as much as I did your hubs.

                2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                  wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you. I have been shown the truth already.

      2. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

         

        Not necessarily.  They could be schizophrenic, bipolar, a liar or they can be telling the truth.  God is a very general term and could be defined in many different ways.

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          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Right, the important thing is, nobody but that person can know what their experience was. They might be crazy, but it might have really happened. A claim of religious experience doesn't equal insanity.

          1. OutWest profile image60
            OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Many sane people have claimed experiences with God.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              True, many sane people also believe they are Napoleon.

              1. OutWest profile image60
                OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Really like who

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              JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I claim experiences.

              Troubled lives in a world where billions of people are insane.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol Yes, I do live in that world.

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                  JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I can see it now. Everyone is together in heaven after this life. Troubled is sitting in a corner, hugging his knees, and saying over and over again 'This isn't real. I'm going crazy. I need medication. This isn't real...'.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol

                  2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                    brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol

              2. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                True dat.

            3. nightwork4 profile image60
              nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              many very wealthy people claim they believe in god also. the reason is because to claim to be an atheist in many cases would destroy their wealth as the people they make money off would quit supporting them. i no this for a fact.

      3. Gaizy profile image91
        Gaizyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I am a former Psychiatric Nurse, and I once nursed a man who believed he was Jesus Christ, and one who believed he was John the Baptist on the same ward! - They got on like a house on fire by the way. Best of friends. They were both, of course, barking mad, and yet "Jesus" had his followers who would visit him for his "wise words". The fact that he was incarcerated in a mental asylum seemed to be lost on them.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          so the insane blindly followed the insane

          somehow that makes sense in that situation.

      4. ackman1465 profile image60
        ackman1465posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Santa is GOD?????   Good grief, I was TOTALLY unawares of that!!!!

        What are you going to tell me next????..... that Judge Judy is Pontius Pilate????

    2. aka-dj profile image80
      aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol lol

      Love it.

      I started a thread years ago, called "fools debating with fools" (or something like that).
      It too, asked, "Why bother"?

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Often times I do it just to get a good laugh.

        If they are stuck on themselves being right they usually slip and flip flop views on sub-categories.

        Happened just recently in dj's thread.. lol

        I admit it.. I laugh at some things they say.

        Like time isn't real.. lol. Or Einstein's work is nonsense.. lol What?? hmm

        Yep, you heard right. They know more than Einstein.

        And this JUST happened. That, and I hope once a few people go read some of it they start thinking.. It gives the unmotivated toward God to possibly search for Him.

        But mostly because the stuff they fabricate doesn't even exist in books and it's more like a comedy show.

        smile

        1. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          No atheist to slam me on that one yet?

          The one I would have admitted to addressing incorrectly??

          lol

          Oh goodness.. I wonder sometimes.

          smile

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      Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If an adult sincerely believed in Santa -- and this adult was otherwise entirely compos mentis -- then I don't know that I would try to dissuade him or her. If a handful of adults believed in Santa, then -- similarly  --   I don't know that I would try to dissuade them. After all, there is nothing intrinsically destructive about believing in Santa, and a small number of folks believing something silly seldom has the capacity for harm. Further, a harmless belief doesn't generally become more dangerous as the number of adherents increase.

      Some atheists -- I'm unwilling to guess what percentage of them  -- believe that believing in God is dangerous, hence they seek to reduce the numbers of theists in the world by the power of persuasion. Other atheists are also agnostics -- this describes myself --  and enjoy engaging with believers for the purpose of settling the question.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If an adult sincerely believed in Santa -- and this adult was otherwise entirely compos mentis -- then I don't know that I would try to dissuade him or her. If a handful of adults believed in Santa, then -- similarly  --   I don't know that I would try to dissuade them. After all, there is nothing intrinsically destructive about believing in Santa, and a small number of folks believing something silly seldom has the capacity for harm. Further, a harmless belief doesn't generally become more dangerous as the number of adherents increase.

        Some atheists -- I'm unwilling to guess what percentage of them  -- believe that believing in God is dangerous, hence they seek to reduce the numbers of theists in the world by the power of persuasion. Other atheists are also agnostics -- this describes myself --  and enjoy engaging with believers for the purpose of settling the question.

        I assume you don't think believers are insane because you engage with them previously stating that you would not engage with a person who was compos mentis.  Therefore you would not contradict yourself.

        smile

        You are right, of course.  You are thinking reasonably.  Many atheists believe believing in God is dangerous although I don't see how Christianity is dangerous.  There's a difference between a religion and extremists.  AS you say, atheists hope to dissuade believers but if believers are insane, then it will be futile.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Then tell us, is it futile, Claire? smile

        2. Lisa HW profile image83
          Lisa HWposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Please leave Santa, The Tooth Fairy, and ever-beloved Easter Bunny out of this.  They're my friends.

          1. lorlie6 profile image87
            lorlie6posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            They're my GODS! smile

        3. Gaizy profile image91
          Gaizyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "Further, a harmless belief doesn't generally become more dangerous as the number of adherents increase". I can't agree with this - The more of them there are, (probability would suggest), the higher the likelyhood that the group will contain some nutters who will take the whole thing literally and be happy to fly airliners into skyscrapers for their "heavenly reward".

          1. aka-dj profile image80
            aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus commanded His followers to heal the sick, raise the dead, and preach the Good News of the Kingdom.

            No planes crashing into buildings come as commands from Him, imagined or real.
            Please show a little common sense, and separate things that should be separate.

            1. Disappearinghead profile image89
              Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Anyone taken a set of screwdrivers to a funeral lately?

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              AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              (Please show a little common sense, and separate things that should be separate.)

              aka-dj,

              This is not a debate about which irrational belief system produces the least violence - and it is unclear if the 50,000 that were tortured to death during the many different Christian Inquisitions over the centuries is a higher or lower body count than produced by Muslim or Hindu history.

              Common sense tells us that the problem is the irrational belief that any Santa is real, not a question of which fake Santa is best.

              1. aka-dj profile image80
                aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Have you tried it lately?
                lol

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                  AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What, belief in Santa?  No, not recently.  I guess I do not have to ask about you, though.

                  1. aka-dj profile image80
                    aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    No, no, no!

                    The hand and eye thing?

                    Have you tried it lately?

                    How did you go?

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              AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              (Jesus commanded His followers to heal the sick, raise the dead, and preach the Good News of the Kingdom.)

              aka-dj,

              How conveniently you omit the fact that Jesus in the sermon on the mount also called for self-mutilation to prevent a body part from sinning.   If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out. 

              I guess that is more love, peace, and common sense, eh?  Of course, the practice would make it a lot easier to spot Christians - the ones with the eye patches.

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                jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kz8r6uEV8Z1qabgb9o1_500.jpg

                1. aka-dj profile image80
                  aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  All you just did was show your total ignorance of what Jesus taught.

                  When you get the lesson, come back and tell all of us!

                  Until then, all I can say is, lol lol lol !!

                  I think you should have posted this in the other thread, the one about Atheist intelligence! lol lol lol

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                    jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Jesus taught??? Or you meant what is purported as jesus teachings?


                    Mark 9:47  And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out.
                    Matthew 19:21  Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
                    john 6:53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you
                    And you are doing all these?
                    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/4759738_f248.jpg

                2. Marisa Wright profile image93
                  Marisa Wrightposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  +1

                3. Philanthropy2012 profile image90
                  Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  + 2

          2. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image95
            Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Nice analogy, but the technology existed in the 1960's to fly an air liner plane into the trade towers via remote control, and most likely, that is exactly how it happened.

        4. 0
          AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          (....I don't see how Christianity is dangerous.) 

          Claire,

          If that is the case, you are ignoring history and misunderstanding the relationship between religions and power.  It is disingenuous to simply claim that there was no conflict between David Koresh and Christianity because David was obviously not a "real Christian". 

          This claim can be made of any person or group - by the same token it was not atheism that caused yada, yada, yadi because he wasn't a real atheist.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The gospels have never advocated violence.  It is those who pervert Christianity that are dangerous but that doesn't make the religion itself dangerous.

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Which bible are you reading from, because I just found plenty of references to violence, including the one below:

                               They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

               

              One doesn't really need to pervert anything when it is already written in plain English.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That's not the gospels.  The gospels are Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.  The Old Testament has so much violence in it that it makes my head spin.







                Jesus said those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

                1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
                  EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The Gospels are any book in the bible marked "The Gospel According To [Name]"

                  Jesus never said live by the sword, die by the sword. In fact the only thing that comes close is when Jesus says "turn the other cheek."

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Matthew 26:52 says:

                    "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

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              AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              (It is those who pervert Christianity that are dangerous but that doesn't make the religion itself dangerous.)

              Claire,

              Did you not read my post to you or did you simply choose to ignore the following (or, as is more likely, simply acknowledge by silence there is no good refutation)?

              quote: "It is disingenuous to simply claim that there was no conflict between David Koresh and Christianity because David was obviously not a 'real Christian'. "

              Any sect of any kind, any belief system can be excused from responsibility for any action simply by claiming, "he, she, or it perverted the belief."

              Don't blame authoritarian fascists - Hitler wasn't a real authoritarian fascist.

              But that does not solve the conundrum in the fact that there is no justification that explains why belief in supernatural superbeings in the aggragate has been responsible for humans committing atrocities against other humans for centuries.   When we lump in the two primary relgions, Christianity and Islam, both based on belief in a supernatural superbeing, we get a clearer picture of the aggregate.

              Christians believe in their own version of the supernatural superbeing, with a different name from Islam, but Christians are accomplices to the furthering of the same basic irrational belief, supernatural superbeings, and thus Christians aid and abet all that is done in the name of all supernatural superbeings, Christian or otherwise.

              The differences among Christianity, Islam, Mormanism, and Hinduism is simply a matter of which evidence convinces you personally that particular belief is right - that they all accept the irrational notion of a supernatural superbeing is the heart of the conflict between them - then it becomes a matter of whose SuperGod reigns supreme.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                But that is a valid explanation! If you started a club for atheists discussing Christianity, etc, and how it is wrong and a radical atheist joins the club and advocates murdering Christian and stabs one to death, does that make your club evil? I should be clear what I mean by Christianity.  It revolves around the ministry, crucifixion and the resurrection of Christ.  Do not think I refer to Christianity that has been corrupted today, thanks to the Satanic Vatican.



                Hitler was another who perverted Christianity for his own gain. 



                I don't see why you can't differentiate between the perversion of a religion and the actually religion itself.  If Jesus advocated violence then it is another story altogether.  The Koran promotes violence, though.



                Please...people must start taking responsibility for themselves.  That's like saying Darwin caused the death of millions because Hitler believed that the theory of evolution meant the weeding out of the weak (the survival of the fittest) which would aid in the promoting of a superior race.  Deformed animals do not survive in the wild so Hitler saw this as a reason why disabled people should be exterminated.  If Darwin didn't theorize evolution, you could argue that the Holocaust would never happened.



                Christianity is the truth while the others are not.  That's the difference.  Sorry if you disagree.

                1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
                  EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Christianity is only the truth if you choose to accept it as such. There are many who disagree with that statement. But you reaffirmed that it is your belief. Which means that no matter what anyone has to say they are lying and only you can be right. You yourself have talked about those that are unreasonable and your belief, while you are sane, are unreasonable and uncompromising in your belief. Which by your own words, makes you a liar. So the question then becomes, are you a liar, or are you willing to accept that there is other rationale and reasoning out there?

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The gospel of Jesus is the truth regardless of what anyone believe. I don't want to use the word Christianity because it is so perverted now it's disgusting. 

                    There's a difference between lying and just not knowing the truth.  Most who says Jesus is not the Son of God are not doing it deliberating to deceive.  They truly believe it is so.

                    Should I lie and say Jesus is not the son of God when I know it is true?

                2. 0
                  AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  (If you started a club for atheists discussing Christianity, etc, and how it is wrong and a radical atheist joins the club and advocates murdering Christian and stabs one to death, does that make your club evil?)

                  Claire,

                  There is no evidence that any violence has ever been committed by a group of people who became too reasonable and demanded too much objective evidence before they acted.

                  It is irrational belief systems - belief with no evidence - that compels some too go off the deep end.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You are missing the point in my hypothetical scenario. The point is that some radical could join the club and try and persuade the others to kill Christians.  He is not there to reason.  He just wants to use the opportunity to get a bunch of atheists together and kill Christians for the good of the world because Christians cause many wars.  Now does this person reflect what atheists are about? No, it doesn't.  Just because some people pervert Christianity doesn't mean it is bad.  Geesh, can't you see that?

    4. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      In other words, those who believe in things that can't be shown "CANNOT be reasoned with" because they are insane?

      Many can't be reasoned with because they have been indoctrinated and show signs of reason well outside of their indoctrinated beliefs.

      Perhaps, some have been indoctrinated to believe Santa is God.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This is a very true thing.  Indoctrination does not necessarily equate to insanity therefore to say all religious people are insane is asinine.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          But, many insane people are religious and many religious people are insane.

          It is those who have broken the cycle of indoctrination that aren't insane.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Many non religious people are insane.  An insane person cannot break out of the cycle of indoctrination because they cannot be reasoned with.

            Former believers must still be insane to have believed the religious doctrines in the first place.  The only way they could go from being a believer to an atheist and be sane they would need to have been treated with medication to realize their beliefs were psychotic.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, we see that in your posts most adamantly, you cannot be reasoned with.



              Not all believers are insane, they are just indoctrinated. For example, I can't see any signs of insanity from Habee, to whom I just responded.

              1. habee profile image91
                habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                But...you haven't seen me during the full moon! lol

                My faith is very personal to me, although I don't hold much with organized religion. I enjoy my relationship with God, and it gives me a feeling of comfort and hope. But each human has to find his own path - with religion, spiritualism, atheism, etc. And no matter how how well meaning some Christians might be, you can't force religion on anyone. To try to do so is a waste of time. I don't mind telling people about Christianity if they ask, but if they're not open to it, I don't force the issue. Nor do I think atheists are evil, or that all religious people are good.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  And, that is why non-believers appreciate the honesty and integrity you exhibit here even if we don't agree with the finer points of your beliefs.

                  However, if you could get someone to video you during a full moon, I'm sure we'd all like to see that. smile

              2. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Habee has just been bestowed with the highest honour on this planet.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Because she doesn't show signs of insanity?

    5. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
      EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Belief tends to take away one's ability to reason. Not believing in something, just that when it comes to that subject, a person is unable to reason. That is the power of belief. It's the thing wars have been fought over. That's why some think it is better to have an idea than to believe.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I hear what you are saying but if the religious are insane, they do not possess the ability to reason and thus no one should bother to try and argue with them.

        The religious aren't the only ones who can be unreasonable.  It is utterly and truly unreasonable to claim that all religious people are insane when any logical person knows that it is not true.  It doesn't matter how much is shown to the contrary, they will still believe it.  If they don't believe it then they are just plain lying.

        1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No one should try to argue them. Arguing against someone who believes in something is asking for trouble. At the same time however, A religious zealot shouldn't go picking a fight and not expect to find one. People, whether religious or not, have a defence mechanism. When challenged, more often then not, they arise to meet the challenge set before them.

          I never said that the religious are the only one's who are unreasonable. Not all religious people are insane, just as those that are not religious are likewise not insane. Insanity is doing something over and over again just to get the same result and the same reaction. Trying to "convert" people to a religion when they don't want to be converted is truest show of insanity.

          The power of beliefs is such that it cannot be challenged. If someone is completely steadfast in their belief system, then it doesn't matter what you throw at them, they will believe it and find a way to refute to whatever you have to say. Assuming they are lying because they still choose to believe instead of not believe doesn't change the fact that they believe. All it changes is your perception on the situation. As no 2 people ever view the world in the exact same way, it doesn't really make a difference to anyone but you by calling them a liar.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Exactly



            It's not insanity.  It's the power of denial and perhaps ego, too.

            Why do you go on about me being a liar and me thinking others are liars? Lying is deliberating deceiving and most believers aren't guilty of that.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              By stating emphatically that "The gospel of Jesus is the truth regardless of what anyone believe" and that you "know" Jesus is the son of God would most certainly be deliberately deceiving others, and you know it.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                How do you know I'm deliberately deceiving people? What if I am telling the truth? Since we both consider ourselves to be truthful, can you tell me that you don't have a shadow of doubt that Jesus isn't the son of God? That it is impossible?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  If you were telling the truth, it wouldn't sound as insane as it does.



                  lol When you can acknowledge and compare your religious beliefs to that of the many other religious beliefs in the world and throughout history as being possible, then yours is as possible as theirs, considering none have a shred of evidence to support them.

                  In other words, why should anyone consider your religious beliefs as being true?

            2. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
              EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I aplogize, I read what you said wrong and took it the wrong way. I had to re read it several times before I realized this. I apologize for that.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No problem. smile

    6. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      When insanity is the norm.

         "IF" 95% of the population was insane; who would declare it so, The 5% or the 95%?

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Being firmly in the 5% myself, I geuss I'll just have to be the spokesman for the rest of the 5%ers....they think declaring it is pointless. Everyone on this planet is nutz!smile

      2. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So insanity is the norm on this planet? Most are completely crazy? Christian scientists, doctors, lawyers (okay, I'll say the lawyer part is true), teachers, etc, are all crazy?

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hope you are not changing my question such that it becomes a statement of FACT?

               Most "Might be crazy?    ???   Maybe Not.

               Suppose that they are!   !!!


               "IF" so?   ...   Who gets to determine who will be  Called  Crazy?

                ME    OR  You ?

          1. mischeviousme profile image61
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            First define normal and then see where you fit in, you'll find the results quite shocking. If I think of the nature of human behavior, the only normalcy I can find, is that there is nothing normal about human behavior.

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              OH yes there is.

                 One thing ...  is that Hormones, Estrogen, Testosterone, and Pheromones, one or the other or ALL of the above (or lack there of)   is what Motivates behavior of (Maybe?) 95% of the population.   

                 Just kidding ....  (Maybe)

              1. mischeviousme profile image61
                mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                If there is any constant regarding human behavior, it's that humans are constantly insane. If we can control our compolsory activity, we are normal. If few can understand us, we are demed insane.

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  YEP!    there is a constant,    And each of us think that we at the center of where it is at.   And hormones is driving that bus.


                    edit
                     Don't know if that's Hormones or whoremones?    LOL

                  1. mischeviousme profile image61
                    mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Hormones, conditioning, geographic/sociological persuation, etc,etc,etc... There are many driving factors for our individual sicknesses.

        2. 0
          Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "Crazy" can just mean that you believe in a delusional system. If Christian belief is delusional, then a huge percentage of the global population is delusional, yes. The majority? No. However, if we replace the words "Christian belief" with "religious belief" in that assertion -- or even with "supernatural belief" -- then it logically follows that the words "a huge percentage" would need to be replaced with "the majority."

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No, crazy means mentally deranged:

            cra·zy/ˈkrāzē/
            Adjective:   
            Mentally deranged, esp. as manifested in a wild or aggressive way: "Stella went crazy and assaulted a visitor".
            Noun:   
            A mentally deranged person.
            Synonyms:   


            adjective.  mad - insane - demented - daft - lunatic - nutty
            noun.  lunatic

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ok... seeing as you posted the def..

              I give.

              I'mz kwazzy...........   

              Why Claire..? Why would you do this ta meez?  hmm


              smile

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I don't remember sending you this comment.  It was meant for someone else.

            2. 0
              Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Believe it or not, crazy can also mean belief in a delusional system. "Crazy" describes a range of mental disorders, one of those disorders being psychosis. Psychotics frequently suffer from delusional beliefs.

              psy·cho·sis
              noun /sīˈkōsəs/
              psychoses, plural

              any severe mental disorder in which contact with reality is lost or highly distorted

              Religious belief has been equated with psychosis in some circles since at least 1927, with the publication of this book:

              http://www.questia.com/read/93928903

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You posted a definition for psychosis for understanding of the word crazy?

                Ok, I isn't kwazzy. I'mz not so bad.

                smile

                1. 0
                  Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, I posted a definition for psychosis for understanding of the word psychosis.

                  ;-)

                  However, "crazy" subsumes "psychosis," in the same way that "overweight" subsumes the words "fat" and "obese." If you are obese, then you are overweight. If you are psychotic, then you are crazy.

                  In other words, if religion is a delusional belief system -- and I'm NOT claiming that it is -- then those who adhere to it can accurately be described as crazy.

    7. Titen-Sxull profile image95
      Titen-Sxullposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Even the craziest ideas can gain traction if they aren't challenged. The "craziness" of a religious claim is subjective in the sense that MOST religious claims seem pretty crazy when you take them out of their socially protective bubble. Would the idea of a God sacrificing his son, who was also himself, to himself in order to appease his own wrath seem sane if it hadn't caught on and become so widespread?

      Challenge the crazy ideas of today and you might prevent the emergence of the religions of the future.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Appease His own wrath??

        How did it catch on in the first place?

    8. Dave Mathews profile image61
      Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If Christianity or any religion is so insane, then what do you hope to prove by attacking the beliefs of the believers? Doesn't that make you appear as insane as they are, or do you simply feed your illusions of being sane by attacking?

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        To help cure insanity?

        1. mischeviousme profile image61
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What's the difference between christianity and islam?

          Newer magazines...

          1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
            EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The Islam nations do not believe Christ was divine where as Christians do.

            1. mischeviousme profile image61
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It was a Seinfeld refference.

    9. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If somebody posted they believed Santa was God, I'd suspect they were having a joke.  After all, you can't prove that either of them exists, or doesn't exist.  So what's the difference?

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There's personal proof to those who love God.  Should we take someone seriously if they said they had personal proof of God being Santa? I'd like them to explain why. There could be a Santa god.

        The bottom line is that no one can prove God to another.  It is a personal revelation.

        1. mischeviousme profile image61
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If it's a personal revelation, chances are it's a delusion. Taking stock in one's life is natural, one needs no God/god to do this. If one looks at themselve's and says "it's time for a change", I'm pretty sure it wasn't God's/god's decision.

    10. 0
      jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      But we do, we will take him to a psychiatrist before he harm others.

  2. SomewayOuttaHere profile image61
    SomewayOuttaHereposted 4 years ago

    ..hey there Claire...i can be reasoned with..sometimes....depends on the day of the week and the season...the light is finally coming back and it's what? Wednesday/Mercredi...big_smile...i sense truble...luv the title of the thread!...

  3. 0
    Emile Rposted 4 years ago

    This forum is for religion and philosophy Claire. As difficult as this might be for you to wrap your head around, Christianity is one of many religions. And the word philosophy is not synonymous with Christianity. This is not your forum, Claire. It is open to everyone, even those whom you think are insane. smile

    1. artblack01 profile image82
      artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Actually this forum goes beyond religion and philosophy, this part is labeled as such but it's part of the greater hub that encompasses many forums, like cooking, automotive, politics, family, lifestyle, everything.

      1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
        EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol

  4. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image95
    Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago

    Well, the atheist is typically such a vastly superior mind to the noodle in my noodle, that they often feel the need to show me how much more brilliant they are than I am.

    It helps me to know my place!

    1. Claire Evans profile image90
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The reason is simple: It's insecurity.  They hate the fact that Christians just may be right and so if they call them insane it comforts them.  The thought that God and Satan may exist is terrifying to a lot of people.  It will turn people lives upside and most don't want that.  I do not believe all atheists are completely deluded to truly believe all religious people are insane. 

      I have FAR better things to do with my time than try and reason with the insane.  I could talk to a tree and produce better results.  At least I get some oxygen from it. Time is too short on this earth to waste it by constantly poking fun at the believers.  It's is not constructive.  It just causes more animosity.

      Think back to Jesus. Even His own family called Him mad (Mark 3:20). People are called mad, when they are not, because people don't understand what they are professing. It is beyond their own understanding so the easy thing to do is to call them insane.  It is evident that Jesus was not crazy.  The Pharisees would not have bothered to have indulged in conversation with Him if He was nuts.

      He was called drunkard, madman and black magician, anything but the truth. The truth is always the last to be considered and sometimes not considered at all.

      Calling oneself the Son of God on its own may seem wacko but other factors need to be considered.  Did Jesus make sense or did He ramble like a madman? The people understood Him when He preached. The Pharisees certainly were angry because He refuted them with logic and exposed their hypocrisy.  Was Jesus a liar? What purpose would that have achieved when it landed up with Him being ridiculed and ultimately crucified? A liar would soon tie themselves up in knots with such an earth-shattering claim.  Finally, did Jesus simply profess the truth?

      Yes.  Even today Jesus makes non believers feel uncomfortable because there is something about Him that is compelling.

      It's actually a compliment to be called insane by those who don't understand or have no interested in understanding.  Jesus could do no other thing but profess the truth even though it must have been terribly lonely to have even your family call you mad. 

      The truth can never be changed.  People can call it insane all they like but it is in vain.

      1. Thinking Allowed profile image61
        Thinking Allowedposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Read the first sentence...face palmed. Not even close. God and satan possibly existing only terrifies believers. This is the main reason many of you believe: fear. Most believers are so caught in their own heads that they project THEIR insecurities and fears on to us. I fear god and the devil as much as I fear Skeletor.

        Believing in a god doesn't make you insane, it does tell me, however, you don't think critically. You can't possibly tell me you seriously thought about a god and said "yeah, that makes sense". It's not possible to actually think about it thoroughly and come to that conclusion.

        It's not about poking fun, it's about acknowledging that these beliefs can be dangerous and persuading as many people as possible to come over to the side of reason. Most believers I run into see any criticism of their belief as poking fun or some sort of attack. Again, being stuck in your own head causes this. The idea of persecution is big with you guys, so ANY criticism is seen as an attack or ridicule.

        Take what you're saying about Jesus. You're talking about events in a book you were told were real but when you look around, there are ZERO extra-biblical accounts of him in these events. ZERO. Mentioning events in the bible is like mentioning events in Harry Potter. If you understand why I'd reject someone quoting Harry Potter you understand why I reject quotes from the bible. Here's the problem though, the simple fact that I compared the bible to Harry Potter makes most of you shut down. You'll call it poking fun, when I'll I'm trying to get you to do is think.

        "It's actually a compliment to be called insane by those who don't understand or have no interested in understanding".

        Most non-believers are former believers. We understand your beliefs inside and out. We understand your thinking. It's YOU who doesn't understand that and doesn't want to understand that. There's that projection again. We've actually read your religious texts because at the time, it was ours. We found flaws and DIDN'T ignore them, we DIDN'T make excuses for them. We included ALL possibilities which includes the possibility of these texts not being true. Do you? Have you ever?

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So say if you knew Satan did exist.  Would that frighten you? Hypothetically speaking?




          It's true that many are "believers" because they fear hell or because they want the better seat in heaven.  That's not being a Christian.  God isn't stupid.



          Richard Dawkins doesn't have critical thinking because he thinks it's possible that aliens seeded the earth and there is a possibility God exists.



          Thanks for the concern but extremists are the dangerous ones and you are addressing the wrong crowd.  Most non believers do insult and attack believers and that is why they are on the defensive.



          Huh? Does Tacitus, Celsus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus not ring a bell to you?




          At the moment I don't see you poking fun.  Regarding the resurrection, we know something happened to inspire the Jews to abandon their religion to take up Christianity even when they were put to death for it.  What happened do you suppose?

          "It's actually a compliment to be called insane by those who don't understand or have no interested in understanding".



          You understand what the beliefs are but you do not understand how people can have a relationship with the Holy Spirit.  I by know means do not look over flaws in the Bible.  I do not believe the Bible is the infallible word of God.  I believe the crux of the gospels is true but some stories about Jesus' encounters must have been embellished.  For example, can it be verified that Jesus make the demons possess the two thousand pigs? I'm skeptical about that.  In a nutshell, the virgin birth and resurrection cannot be verified as true without actually having personal evidence of the Holy Spirit.  If I didn't have that, there really would not be any reason why I should believe a book and revolve myself around the gospels.

          1. artblack01 profile image82
            artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "So say if you knew Satan did exist.  Would that frighten you? Hypothetically speaking?"
            If anything that could hurt us exists we must fear it, however, if we know that either this thing is fictional or that we understand it enough for it to be rendered harmless then we will no longer fear it.
            In other words, "Knowledge is power"  Many if not most or all of us were raised by Christian (or other religious) families, we were taught to fear Satan and Love God and so on, however those of us that are now atheists came to understand that these things are little more than scary bedtime stories and fairy tales.  What the atheists that come here for is to make you understand that WE don't believe as you do and why.  That we when you understand us, whether or not you come to believe as we do, you will not violate our rights by trying to make the laws of the land equal to your religious beliefs, or attack us as heretics, or prosthelytize our children and so on.  Some of us are much angrier about it then others, some a bit more empathetic about it, but what remains is that almost all of us are sure of what we believe because of the simple fact that we base our beliefs on evidence and not faith.  We are happier as we are now than we were as Christians and the likely hood of changing our mid depends on how much actual evidence you have that contradicts our beliefs/evidence.
            As far as your other questions:
            You make many assumptions and judgements based on statements out of context with the whole (mainly on Richard Dawkins, but he doesn't influence my beliefs in any way).
            Huh? Does Tacitus, Celsus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus not ring a bell to you? Yes they do but you must understand that some of these men never lived in the time of Jesus, Never new Jesus made statements that seem out of context with the whole of their testimony (meaning someone forged their testimony) and these people never actually met or knew Jesus.  In fact  Celsus was an opponent of Christianity in the time of Jesus and never mentions Jesus in context of Christianity as a person who he knew.
            As far as the Jews abandoning their religion to become Christians? That is a false and misleading statement as well, since Christianity was not invented by Jews, unless you take the Bible Literally and aren't looking at historical accounts.  Jews keep a pretty good record of their history and their are many Jews in the world, 6,214,569 in the US and 14.5 million in the world, Christianity is the largest 1.9 Billion, but that is just 1/7th of the world population.
            As far as your very last statement, it's called emotional attachment to an idea, you get pleasure from your belief the same way someone gets pleasure from eating food, or going on shopping sprees or finding someone you feel in love with.  In fact it's the same as being in love, because love is blind and you will do anything to defend that love even if in the end it turns out that the other person never loved you and was cheating on you with another person.  But you move on and find someone better and you learn from your mistakes.  Then you find out that love isn't based on faith it's based on mutual respect and trust and the ability to agree to disagree.
            We atheists believe by evidence not faith, if you are going to try and get us to believe as you do merely with stories of fear of the unknown, testimony of the unbelievable and often not true, or miracles and the empty promise of a salvation from an empty threat using only the power of faith, then I am sorry but you have nothing to offer us.

        2. Leafy Den profile image80
          Leafy Denposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thinking Allowed...well said! smile

      2. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Just as it comforts you to say that anyone believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is insane.  Is it the fact that they my be right?  Get real.  Your beliefs are childish nonsense, and nothing to fear.

         

        The thought that God and Satan may exist is completely absurd to people who have the courage to use their common sense.  Fear is for cowards.




        I prefer brainwashed as opposed to insane.



        Just like you have no idea who wrote the book of Mark.  Now do you?



        Your beliefs are not beyond any thinking person's understanding.  Your beliefs are simply primitive, unintelligent, blatant LIES!

         

        How would that prove Jesus' sanity?



        The truth is:  Jesus is imaginary.  Have you considered that?  Not at all!


         

        lol! Totally delusional garbage propaganda!  But it makes you feel like you are not brainwashed.



        So is THIS the truth or just insane?
        http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z88/Hazard-D/Motivational%20Posters/AGREEDBUTcopy.jpg

        1. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If you don't believe that's fine.

          But we are not liars.

          And you could learn some respect.

          You are a child.

          Maybe you enjoy mocking a Man so many people love with all their hearts because YOU don't believe.

          But that gives you no right to be so inconsiderate and ugly.

          Who said YOU determined what everyone can and can't believe?

          Maybe you should stick to the reasoning if you don't believe and quit the demeaning of my Lord.

          And the Lord of so many others.

          You should be as ashamed as you can be, just because you're rude and cold.

          As IF you posting that was going to do ANY good....

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Respect would mean that believers wouldn't go around demanding others make a choice to believe as they believe, that is disrespect. Do you understand?

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I've demanded nothing except for you to quit attempting to tell me what to do.

              But I've come to accept disappointment from you.

              Do you understand?

              God bless.

              Good day.

              smile

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Kind of like you telling others to accept Jesus or not? lol

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'll make an exception here to respond.

                  So you refuse to accept Jesus.

                  And you refuse to deny Him..

                  Now what brainiac?

                  roll

                  Oh yeah.. " Christians are liars har har har! "

                  Boy, you're a great spokesman for the atheists . . .

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually, it's more along the lines that I don't accept your ridiculous claims about Jesus.

                    You see, starting from the premise that Jesus existed and exists for you as something very real and tangible would make it appear from your perspective as if others aren't accepting that very same real and tangible entity you've created for yourself.

              2. artblack01 profile image82
                artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hypocrisy in action. big_smile

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Quote me cheesy...

                  smile

                  1. artblack01 profile image82
                    artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "I've demanded nothing except for you to quit attempting to tell me what to do."  Vector7
                    Yet when someone speaks their mind you attempt to contradict them when it's not the same as yours, no one is telling you want to do, in fact we enjoy a friendly debate, yet you make all debates unfriendly because they contradict your belief.  You want to speak your mind, by all means do so but allow us the same consideration.  You want to make fun of claims we make then you must accept the same consideration, but what you have failed to do is to back your claims up with requests for evidence, you call our (mine in particular) statements "parroting as if repeating them would make them true"  I repeat my statements because they are a request for evidence to the contrary.  I can back up any and all claims I make, so ask me a question but do not character assassinate and not expect someone to be on the offensive.  Is this what Christianity is about?  Making claims that cannot be backed up and then attacking someone that contradicts them in an unfriendly manner?  A troubled man  is guilty of this only because he is angry, I can understand his anger but as I make statements that contradict you I mean no disrespect and have shown none to you except in light of your attacks on myself and others.  Show some respect and you shall indeed receive respect.

          2. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Then you are, unfortunately, the victims of a vicious hoax. 



            Thanks for pointing out my disrespect while disrespecting me.  You are amusing Vector. lol



            I'm not mocking.  I'm simply challenging your absurd assertions, of which you have not yet provided any level of intelligent rebuttal.



            Sorry you are attached to such a foolish Lord.  Detach yourself and become free of the delusion that has permeated your being.



            Yep...many other psychotic minds can't be wrong! lol



            You are way too attached to these archaic nonsensical beliefs, man.  I have only given a straightforward rebuttal of your ridiculous beliefs, and you take this as a personal attack.

        2. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Why would it comfort me? What is it to me if the Flying Spaghetti exists or not? If it exists, so what?





          You limit yourself in thinking the world is just about common sense.  Common sense tells me that all life morphing from a primordial soup eventually causing consciousness from RNA is just absurd.  Let's think of DNA:

          Since the discovery of DNA Biologists have been gradually learning that the basic cellular unit underlying all known life on Earth is enormously complex. Far more complex than the latest Intel CPU for example. It's so highly mechanised with concepts such as hardware and software that many at the forefront of microbiology believe a genetic algorithm could not possibly have produced it.

          But that just formed in a primordial soup according to people with the highest concept of common sense.


          Anyway, the staunchest and most reasonable of all atheists actually contends that humans may be intelligently designed - by aliens, I kid you not:

          Interview:


          BEN STEIN: What do you think is the possibility that Intelligent Design might turn out to be the answer to some issues in genetics or in evolution?

          DAWKINS: Well, it could come about in the following way. It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved, probably by some kind of Darwinian means, probably to a very high level of technology, and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Now, um, now that is a possibility, and an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer.

          He's thinking reasonably, of course.  Unless he has been drinking some Kool-Aid.  This theory actually is written in the ancient Sumerian Tablets and is a Freemasonic belief.  This was also the view of Francis Crick, the Nobel Peace Prize winner who discovered DNA.

          Anthony Flew was also a respected atheist and said before he died in an interview:


          FLEW: I think that the most impressive arguments for God’s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries. I’ve never been much impressed by the kalam cosmological argument, and I don’t think it has gotten any stronger recently. However, I think the argument to Intelligent Design is enormously stronger than it was when I first met it.

          HABERMAS: So of the major theistic arguments, such as the cosmological, teleological, moral, and ontological, the only really impressive ones that you take to be decisive are the scientific forms of teleology? [teleology is the philosophical study of design in nature]

          FLEW: Absolutely. It seems to me that Richard Dawkins constantly overlooks the fact that... the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design.

          http://www.theoligarch.com/richard-dawkins-aliens.htm

          Mail Online article:

          Professor Richard Dawkins today dismissed his hard-earned reputation as a militant atheist - admitting that he is actually agnostic as he can't prove God doesn't exist.

          The country's foremost champion of the Darwinist evolution, who wrote The God Delusion, stunned audience members when he made the confession during a lively debate on the origins of the universe with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … ostic.html

          Being fearful is not cowardice.  Persevering despite one's fear is courage.






          Can you reason with a brainwashed person?






          Oh yes, the Flying Spaghetti did.  Sorry, I should have given him the credit.





          Are you hundred dillion percent sure I am lying? Be honest!





          If Jesus was not capable of reasoning ever.






          So you are an historian and biblical scholar and have spent years studying the evidence for Jesus?






          You sound rattled.  I am making you feel uncomfortable.


           



          As for your picture, omit the Genesis part. That didn't happen.  Jesus wasn't a zombie, by the way.   

          Never ever be too sure about Jesus not being the son of God.  If there is a small doubt and people lash out like crazy, then there much be some merit in the claim.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Excellent post.

            Seriously.

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you. smile

          2. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists, then your beliefs would have to be false, that's why.




            What a desperate stretch.  There are many things about evolution that are not yet understood, however pointing them out does nothing for your beliefs.  Let your beliefs stand on their own merit. 




            Apparently NOT! To you, reason is only a tool to try to make brainwashing appear to be sensible.








            Evasion! Just admit you don't know.




            Why do you need to go to this length to trick yourself? This is why your argument becomes circular.  Just because absolutes are technically illogical makes no difference in regards to your beliefs.  These beliefs are childish nonsense. 




            There is a remote chance that someone vaguely referenced as Jesus did, historically, exist...however we are not talking about the historical Jesus.  We are talking about the SAVIOUR JESUS...and that is an imaginary person.








            Maybe you should be honest, and stop just making stuff up.  There is nothing about Jesus that causes any uncomfortableness in anyone except the delusional believer.  It is your desperate defense of this nonsense that is disturbing.




            Yep...when brainwashed one can create any paradox they want.  Just imagine a zombie who's NOT a zombie.   



            The same could be said for Spider Man.

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this



              Oh please! Since when does the Flying Spaghetti monster, if proven to exist, automatically negates God existence?







              Lol







              .



              Of course I don't know! They didn't exactly put their names on, did they?







              I'm asking you a question and I would appreciate it if you would answer it.







              There isn't a remote chance.  It's a fact. Pliny the Younger and Celsus mentioned the claims Jesus was divine and the former called it a superstition and the latter did, too, but went further and mocked Jesus calling Him a black magician.

              Extra-biblical sources did mention the eclipse and earthquake that happened when Jesus was crucified:

              Roman historian Phlegon apparently has also written about a darkness around Jesus' crucifixion.
              Plegon's writing on history is known as "OLYMPIADES". The reference may be found in "Fragmenta Historicum Graecorum" (C. Muller) 1841- 1870, Volume 3, pages 603 - 624:
              "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse [Greek = EKLEIPSIS] of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the 6th hour the day was changed into night and the stars were seen in the heavens. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicaea"

                  The first olympiad was held in 776 BC
                  Each Olympiad is 4 years
                  The forth year of the 202 Olympiad is 32 AD - 

              Pagan chronologer Thallus also tries to explains this away as outlines by Africanus:
              A most terrible darkness fell over all the world, the rocks were torn apart by an earthquake, and many places both in Judaea and the rest of the world were thrown down. In the third book of his HISTORIES Thallus dismisses this darkness as a solar eclipse, unreasonably, as it seems to me. For the Hebrews celebrate the PASSOVER on Luna 14, and what happened to the Saviour occurred one day before the PASSOVER. But an eclipse of the sun takes place when the moon passes under the sun. The only time when this can happen is in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last day of the old moon, when they are in conjunction. How then could one believe an eclipse took place when the moon was almost in opposition to the sun? So be it. Let what had happened beguile the masses, and let this wonderful sign to the world be considered a solar eclipse through an optical [illusion]. Phlegon records that during the reign of Tiberius Caesar there was a complete solar eclipse at full moon from the sixth to the ninth hour; it is clear that this is the one. But what have eclipses to do with an earthquake, rocks breaking apart, resurrection of the dead, and a universal disturbance of this nature

              http://www.textexcavation.com/thallustestimonium.html

              I don't think it would be pertinent for pagans and Jewish non believers to record Jesus' miracles.  They Jesus' divinity was superstition. 








              Why bother telling me this stuff since I'm brain-washed? Why get so worked up? I'm giving you a chance to rant and rave about Mohammed and tell me how false the Koran is.





               

              Do you know what a zombie is? A Zombie:

              Originally, a snake-deity of or deriving from West Africa and Haiti.
              A soulless corpse said to be revived by witchcraft, esp. in certain African and Caribbean religions.

              The term is often figuratively applied to describe a hypnotized person bereft of consciousness and self-awareness, yet ambulant and able to respond to surrounding stimuli.

              When Zombies came back to life they are devoid of a soul and are mute. 

              Not exactly Jesus.






              You do have doubt at the back of your mind.  Be honest.

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this





                Because the FSM IS GOD!!!   And there can be only one, or are you suggesting multiple Gods?




                Using odds and probabilities, your assertions are WAY MORE LIKELY TO BE LIES THAN TRUTH.  It is not a matter of being 100 percent sure, but of just being in reality.  Your assertions are mind-numbing nonsense, and you are just trying, desperately, to support your senseless beliefs with reason.  Imagine that.






                That's insane.  I suppose you were there.

                   

                All this research in support of abject nonsensical, wishful thinking...that some Bronze Age fairytale is REALITY.  It's ashame to use one's intellect to support one's psychosis.






                The Koran is also complete garbage as well.  Neither you nor brainwashed Muslims know anything about "divinity"



                 



                lol lol lol Very technical!  The difference being that Jesus had a soul,  right?  And he could talk, right?  And he wasn't resurrected through witdhcraft, right?  Oh, that reminds me,  I got to pick up a copy of the latest Harry Potter, and the Twilight Saga.   








                There is NO doubt that your beliefs are complete and utter nonsense.  OK!  I hereby commit "blasphemy" and declare the myth of God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit to be completely foolish, primitive, and delusional nonsense.

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Imagine you sticking around at these forums screaming "Lies!" to people who cannot be reasoned with. Go figure.









                  I don't need to be there.  It's a fact that Jesus was mentioned in extra-biblical sources.





                  Lol, so you ignore these texts just because it doesn't suit you? Did you think these texts are made up?






                  And you know everything about divinity? I'm asking you why bother telling me I believe in garbage when you can't reason with a brain-washed person?




                  LMAO! Actually, no, it isn't funny.  Poor thing, you are trying to convince yourself that Jesus isn't the son of God by projecting.  I've seen this over the years.

                  1. 0
                    jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Getitrite This is her only reasonable statement and she is taking treatment, so better leave her alone!

                  2. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Because you people can be quite amusing...I mean with some of the extreme nonsense that you assert when your delusion is totally debunked.  Just to experience, firsthand, the effects of psychosis on the human mind is astonishing.



                    You're right!  Although you do believe in garbage, you are brainwashed and no longer possess the ability to discern reason.  I would suggest psychiatric treatment, but you would have to acknowledge first that you are delusional.  It is hopeless with most of the brainwashed believers, as they have the backing of society, encouraging and supporting their mental sickness.






                    By using condescension and blatantly patronizing me you assume some type of superiority, right?  This is your delusion, desperately trying to survive in the face of REALITY.

                    BTW, I don't need your pity, for it is not me who is pathetic. 



                    Your reasoning is completely absurd.  It shows an extremely elementary understanding of cause and effect.  Since I don't even believe in God, how in the world can I believe God has a son?  What a presupposition.  Hence, in effect, it is YOU using the projecting mechanism.

                    Of course the deluded mind can dismiss this, and go right on blissfully asserting nonsense as if it were truth.

                     

                    It is apparent that the deluded mind can "SEE" just what it wants to see.  You also believe that primitive charlatans talked to some being you call God, and that God told them to write His thoughts.  Brainwashed...a resounding YES!  Analyst of human psychology...NOT IN THE LEAST!

          3. Gaizy profile image91
            Gaizyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Richard Dawkins can't disprove that god exists? - Of course not. neither can he (or anyone else) disprove fairies, aliens, goblins or Santa - This is no proof that they exist. The onus isn't upon disbelievers to try and disprove any or all fictional concepts. The onus is upon believers to prove what they say is true, and not just wishful thinking.

            1. Claire Evans profile image90
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              He says that it is for that very reason he cannot know for certain that God doesn't exist.  His own words.  The difference between people who claim God exists and those who claim fairies, etc, exist is that most who claim God exist are sane and no one sane says fairies exists and is serious about it.

              1. Gaizy profile image91
                Gaizyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No, I'm sorry but it's exactly the same thing.
                "no one sane says faries exist and is serious about it" - You need to look outside of your own belief. There is a huge body of people who are just as serious about faries as you are about god. (Check out Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the Author of Sherlock Holmes). Belief in both faries and god is irrational and they both carry the same body of "proof". You can't say that they are insane simply because their irrational belief is different to your own.
                Those who claim fairies exist have exactly the same body of proof behind their claim as do those who claim that god exists - In fact the fairy believers have a slightly better claim. At least their legends, writings and beliefs are consistent, whereas the concept and stories and legends about god change (often quite drasticaly), between the  hundreds/thousands of mainline versions of god belief. Believers often use the "it must be true because it's in the bible" ploy but this carries no more weight than a book about fairies would as proof of faries existence.

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I suppose I was thinking of Tinkerbell.  LMAO!

                  Anyway, I was too quick with my answer.  It is possible that fairies do exist looking it up:

                  Faerie :  from the Latin term for "fate" (fata), faeries (or fairies) are a "host of supernatural beings and spirits who occupy a limbo between earth and heaven" (Guiley). This is in recognition of the skill faeries had in predicting and even controlling human destiny. Faeries could be either good or evil creatures, and at various points in history have been confused with witches and demons

                  Can't rule this out.  In all honesty, I can't.  Several years ago there was a report on a news site of tokoloshis (dwarf-like water sprites in the Zulu culture)walking into a school classroom.  Several children had to be hospitalized for shock. 

                  It is natural to dismiss something as insane, like I did initially, when people aren't familiar with the subject and the claims or when it seems irrational to them. It's because people want a logical explanation first. However, looking into it makes me realize I cannot dismiss it as insane because I've never had evidence.  Otherwise I'd be guilty of the same thing as atheists are regarding the supernatural.

                  1. 0
                    Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    While I respect what you are saying here, I must object that many atheists -- if not most -- have spent a lot of time investigating claims of the supernatural. I've spent 30 years investigating such claims, hoping for positive evidence, but encountering none.

              2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol The one who IS serious about claiming fairies exist also believes they are sane.

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Look at my revised comment.

            2. aka-dj profile image80
              aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I disagree!
              Anyone making any claim carries the onus to prove this or that.

              If you make the adamant stand that there is NO God, show us WHY you make that claim. It's your claim, but, since you know nothing beyond this 3D world, you are not able, in all honesty, and with ANY integrity to assert any such thing.
              The most hones thing any Atheist can say is, "I don't know"! End of story!

              1. Gaizy profile image91
                Gaizyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Atheists are not making the claim - They are refuting YOUR claim - The refutation can not come before the claim, that is why the onus is on the believers - It can not, logically, be any other way.

                1. aka-dj profile image80
                  aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Your refutation is empty!

                  Your position negates anything you say.

                  1. Gaizy profile image91
                    Gaizyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    LOL !  My position of requiring some sort of proof before believing unsubstantiated claims negates anything I say? How does that work then?
                    I am perfectly open to believing in the god theorey if someone can provide any proof other than self-referrencing stuff like "because it says so in the bible", or subjective stuff like "because I know in my heart it's true" Every deluded mental patient that I have nursed over thirty years knew "in their heart" that their delusions were true - This proves nothing. In fact, unless there is corroborating evidence,  psychiatric services would regard it as indicating symptoms of delusional thinking. Note that the onus was not on us to disprove their delusions. To try would be futile, the definition of a delusion is "a false belief that cannot be corrected by logical argument.

                    So it's not much to ask. Just show me some proper proof (i.e. that would stand up in a court) and I'll join you in church next sunday.

        3. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Previously comment did not come out properly:






          Can you reason with a brainwashed person?






          Oh yes, the Flying Spaghetti did.  Sorry, I should have given him the credit.





          Are you hundred dillion percent sure I am lying? Be honest!





          If Jesus was not capable of reasoning ever.






          So you are an historian and biblical scholar and have spent years studying the evidence for Jesus?






          You sound rattled.  I am making you feel uncomfortable.


           



          As for your picture, omit the Genesis part. That didn't happen.  Jesus wasn't a zombie, by the way.   

          Never ever be too sure about Jesus not being the son of God.  If there is a small doubt and people lash out like crazy, then there much be some merit in the claim.

      3. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That was completely beautiful claire. Well spoken!
        +10

        Jesus was indeed in complete control of his mental faculties.
        Psychologists look at disturbed peoples emotions because often they will show signs of depression, at other times be vehemently angry, have anxiety.
        Jesus cried at his friends lazarus's death - a natural reaction. Jesus got angry in the temple but he did not lose control. He overturned everything but the seller of doves cages - because doves are frail animals and might have gotten hurt, in the midst of jesus rage he said:
        John 2:16   And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
        Matthew 21:12   And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the SEATS of them that sold doves,
        Jesus was mad at the blatant mistreatment and gouging of temple visitors.
        Misperceptions are common among insane people. The will think people are trying to get them, paranoia. They are out of contact with reality. Jesus was not paranoid but he knew there were some very real dangers around him.
        Some insane people cannot carry on a conversation, they jump to faulty conclusions or are irrational. Jesus spoke clearly, powerfully even eloquently also being brilliant and having keen insights into human nature.
        Unsuitable behavior such as dressing oddly, a warm coat in summer or being unable to relate to others. Jesus had deep relationships with a variety of people from all walks of life.
        Jesus had adoring crowds around him but he did not let his ego get bloated. Jesus maintained balance in awkward and life threatening situations. He always knew where he was going and what he was doing. He cared about women and children who were not really that important back then.
        Some people as Claire pointed out thought he was possessed by a demon, of course i disagree with this but those people back then making this accusation were not mental health professionals.
        Jesus was not making absurd claims about himself he was actually backing those claims up with miracles like healing the blind and lame, compassionate healings not performance miracles.
        Jesus did not just claim to be the son of God - he backed it up with amazing feats of healing, with astounding demonstrations of power over nature, with transcendent and unprecedented teaching and ultimately with his own resurrection. In the face of this type of evidence it is definitely laughable to say Jesus was anything else but sane and sober.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Absolutely agree with the former statement based on the latter. smile

        2. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Great comment!



          It had nothing to do with them no understand mental health problems.  They believed he cast out devils with devils because black magicians do miracles also so they assumed Jesus was one, too.

          Celsus was a second century historian and opponent of Christianity.  This is what he wrote about Jesus:

          "Jesus, on account of his poverty, was hired out to go to Egypt. While there he acquired certain [magical] powers... He returned home highly elated at possessing these powers, and on the strength of them gave himself out to be a god... It was by means of sorcery that He was able to accomplish the wonders
          which He performed... Let us believe that these cures, or the resurrection, or the feeding of a multitude with a few loaves... These are nothing more than the tricks of jugglers... It is by the names of certain demons, and by the use of incantations, that the Christians appear to be possessed of [miraculous] power..."

          They did not believe Jesus was insane.

        3. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with what your saying upto the point of claiming to be the son of God and backing it up. He never said he was the son of God. He said that he was the son of Man. He prayed and when asked said that he was talking with his father, but he never said that he was the son of God. That was inferred through out the text, but it's not something he ever said or made claim to. He explicitly made a point of saying that he was the son of Man in fact.

          Matthew 25:45

          Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take [your] rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

          Matthew 25:62-64

          And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what [is it which] these witness against thee? But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

          Mark 2:10

          But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

          These are just a few of the examples where he claims to be the Son of Man. He makes no claim to be the son of God, that name is given to him. It is also important to remember that the word Messiah means Prophet.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Really man?

            John 3:16???

            There's more but if you can't see it, I'm not fighting you to show you.

            The Son of man is a reference to the book of Daniel speaking about the coming Messiah.. The Son of God.

            How do the same misconceptions come up over and over? hmm

            It's even in your post....

            Matthew 25:62-64

            They asked if Him if He was the Son of God.. Then they crucified Him claiming He was blaspheming because He said yes...

            If Son of man meant what you think, do you think they would have crucified Him? For telling them He wasn't?

            That verse proves my point in itself.

            God bless

            1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
              EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yet again, he did not say that he was the son of God. He simply say that God sent his only begotten son. He does not say that he is that son. This is something yet again implyd and by no means him actually saying that this is who he is. Read again and more carefully.

              1. Insane Mundane profile image60
                Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Even if I only use the Bible for rolling papers to roll marijuana (only for re-sell, of course, since I don't smoke it) or prefer the New Testament for choice-select, Grade-C toilet paper for my arse, I'd still say that you have some comprehension issues on that particular, obvious verse.
                If I were a Christian, I'd be LMAO @ you!  Fortunately for me, I'm just an innocent spectator, so my backside is spared from falling off due to LOLs!  lol

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't see how they miss things so simple and blatently obvious.

                  ...

              2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                By the evidence, who else could it be?

              3. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Jesus said I am in the world but I am not of the world meaning His Spirit was with God when the world was created. Atheist call us Christians stupid, but at least we can put 1 and 1 together. Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is the Son of man also which relates to the signs of the coming Messiah who was Jesus, His human nature.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  lol Well, at the very least, we can trust Christians to do something.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol...

                    neutral

  5. innersmiff profile image79
    innersmiffposted 4 years ago

    Perhaps because they would secretly like to be persuaded. We all cry out for some kind of spiritual satisfaction, and maybe militant atheism is just another expression of it - continually frustrated by the dogma of religion but strangled by their own rigid belief systems in turn, they keep coming back.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol Perhaps, there are those who understand "spiritual satisfaction" is complete nonsense embraced by the ignorant and delusional.

      1. innersmiff profile image79
        innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So your tirade against 'delusion' is an expression of your profound satisfaction and comfort with your existence?

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh no, like you asserted, "strangled by their own rigid belief systems " lol

    2. Claire Evans profile image90
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You've got that right.

    3. Gaizy profile image91
      Gaizyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Then again, perhaps not.

  6. lorlie6 profile image87
    lorlie6posted 4 years ago

    I am quite reasonable, thank you very much!  Oh, and you can visit me anytime in the asylum anytime.  Perhaps we can chat over tea? smile

  7. tammybarnette profile image60
    tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago

    It cracks me up how these forums are always the same. Who is the more intelligent and who is delusional. Same thing in the political forums. Believers want to bring you to the Lord to save you from Hell, why do non believer's want to bring people away from their lord? Now that's the interesting question. In what way will you be rewarded for your efforts to undermine the beliefs of Christians?

    1. 0
      AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      (In what way will you be rewarded for your efforts to undermine the beliefs of Christians?)

      tammybarnette,

      I would live in a safer, more sane world.  If religious belief were eliminated, I would not have to concern myself that a college educated and wealthy young man who also happened to believe a flying mule took a prophet to heaven decided that, to appease his god, he needed to build a nuclear weapon and explode it amongst those whom he found unworthy, I wouldn't have to concern myself that a man in the U.S. who purportedly sincerely believes - only by accepting the authority of the storyteller he follows - that a lost tribe of Israelites lived and built huge cities in New York without leaving a single scrap of evidence of their existence could be elected to the most powerful political position in the world, and I wouldn't have to concern myself that believers in ghosts, Frankenstein-like dead people rising, and fairy kings who can live in the sky for thousands of years might also be on a jury hearing evidence against me when I have been wrongly accused.

      These people who are so easy to baffle, so unchallenging in their thinking, so irrational about their willingness to believe nonsense, that I want no part of them having a position of authority over me or anyone I care about.  That starts by eliminating irrational thinking.

      There are tons of reasons for hoping we can eliminate irrational beliefs and the irrational thinking spawning those beliefs - I'm sure you can think of your own reasons if you give it a try.

      1. tammybarnette profile image60
        tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So basically you lump all believers into one pile,hmm. I'm sure you love it when someone does this to you and your belief system, or lack there of. Politically speaking I am a liberal and believe you should have the right to believe or not believe anything you so choose. As a Christian, I would only want to spare YOUR soul. See, your reasoning is self interest and mine is love of fellow man.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That would be showing respect for others.



          No, that would be total disrespect for others, which does nothing but cause conflict. Yours is the one that is of self-interest because YOU want to spare someone else's soul, even though they never asked you to do so.

          That is not love, that is selfishness.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Glad to see you enjoy being hateful.

            It doesn't matter what anyone does, you claim it's selfish.

            YOU on the other hand ARE selfish, rude, arrogant, and spiteful.

            Here, want to be hateful? Here is another opportunity to show everyone your colors.

            smile

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              lol <--- me being hateful



              That is a lie.



              Yes, keep evangelizing your religion to fulfill OUR needs. lol

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thx, I'll tell the world.

                You just keep listening and reading even though you don't like it. wink

                I know.. It's hard to control your eyes.... lol

                smile

                1. artblack01 profile image82
                  artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Silence is the same as approval.  That is why we do not keep silent.  We do not approve of cults.  Call us hateful all you like, make fun of us, character assassinate all you like, without the benefit of evidence for your claims, the hypocrisy is all yours.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "Silence is the same as approval"

                    lol

                    You should really write a book. And I'm serious. Make an ebook so I can download it.

                    Where do you people come up with this stuff?

                    smile

        2. 0
          AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          (So basically you lump all believers into one pile,hmm. I'm sure you love it when someone does this to you and your belief system

          tammybarnette,

          I am totally secure in who I am and who I am not and have no ego to stroke, so I don't care what anyone else thinks about me.  I do care about how others think, though, as being a part of soceity means that societal decisions affect everyone.

          I prefer decision-makers to be rational, and therefore I urge rationality in everyone because one never knows who will be in a position of authority.

      2. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The problem here is that you are thinking of extremists in religion.  The problem is that it is not the average believer that you are encountering here on these forums.  You are conversing with the wrong people.  You also tend to think that religion is the the main root for wars.  World War 1 and 2 were not started over religion.  The Arab Spring which has led to war in Libya and Syria where not started because of religion.  They were started for the purpose of ultimately having a one world government. 

        The last thing I would do is visit a religious forum set up by extremists.  You are better off banging your head against a tree.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey Claire. You are an extremist.

        2. 0
          AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          (You also tend to think that religion is the the main root for wars)

          Claire,

          This is an odd statement in that I have never once posted such a claim - never.  I understand that human activities can rarely if ever be pinned down to one causitive claim - unlike those who claim Satan as THE cause.

          Emile R, above, is right.  You may not consider yourself so, but you hold quite extreme views.  They tend to come across and black and white views.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I apologize. 



            Religious extremists:

            1. Introduction
            At first glance, the link between religious extremism and terrorism seems
            obvious.  Religious extremists are willing to murder because they embrace theologies that sanction violence in the service of God.  They have no sympathy for their victims, because they view those victims as enemies of God.  And they readily sacrifice their own 2lives because they expect huge and immediate afterlife rewards in return form “martyrdom.”

            Is this me??

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Here.. I'll pick up..

              ::ahem::

              NO

              smile

    2. Claire Evans profile image90
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      They will be rewarded for their false security.

  8. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 4 years ago

    Over the years, I've seen several threads started specifically for Christians, yet a couple of atheists and/or agnostics just had to come on the thread and post arguments. I just don't get it. I feel the same way about Christians arguing on forum threads started specifically for atheists, agnostics, Taoists, Muslims, etc.

    If the thread is about religion or philosophy, in general, that's a different story. Otherwise, why waste time and effort? Atheists aren't going to convince Christians that their beliefs are wrong, and vice-versa.

    1. tammybarnette profile image60
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      habee, your right, i saw this thread as I logged on and didn't realize it was an atheist forum until after I posted my first comment. No arguing intended. On that note goodnight to all:) (I would say God Bless but what would be the point)

      1. habee profile image91
        habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Tammy, my comment wasn't aimed at you! Honestly, I didn't even read all the comments, and I was just making a general statement.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Would it be possible at the very least to convince Christians to stop evangelizing their religion? They can believe whatever they want.

      1. habee profile image91
        habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You're preaching to the choir. I don't try to force my personal beliefs down the proverbial throat of others.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Perhaps, YOU don't, but many other Christians do. Or, perhaps you do but aren't aware that you're doing it.

          1. habee profile image91
            habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If you'll show me where I did, I'll try to correct my evil ways.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              If I do see that, I'll point it out.

  9. rebekahELLE profile image91
    rebekahELLEposted 4 years ago


    It always puzzles me why either belief bothers the other so much.

    Didn't Einstein say something about insanity? Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results? I think that applies to just about everyone. lol

    1. artblack01 profile image82
      artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Humans are insane at time I suppose.

  10. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    What makes me laugh is atheists claiming that it's not a religion, hanging out in religious forums and arguing their different points of view. Just because someone doesn't believe in God, doesn't necessarily follow that all of their belifs make sense. Atheists can also inhabit insane asylums. Just because someone is crazy, doesn't necessarily follow that they are religious. Any of you aware of the book of prophecy that was authored by Sir Isaac Newton? Yep...I think he set the big day sometime in 2035.

    1. artblack01 profile image82
      artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So this is a religious forum?  I thought it was a public forum discussing the two subjects?  As far as Isaac Newton having a prophecy...  I don't believe he or anyone is qualified to make such a claim.  You can predict the whether but you can't assure that that your prediction will be 100% accurate.

  11. Shiningstar4u2c profile image61
    Shiningstar4u2cposted 4 years ago

    I love the name of this forum. please atheist, leave us insane Christians alone! smile

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      We would love to do that, unfortunately, many Christians believe they've been commanded to spread the Gospel, which means they won't leave others alone. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. smile

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But have you thought you encourage Christians by coming to their forums? If you ignored them they'd keep quiet.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No, they wouldn't, and you know it. Many have stated they are commanded to spread the Gospel, and you know that, too.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            By ignoring them I mean boycotting their forums.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              These are not Christian forums. I'm not certain why this fact continues to escape you. Are you ignoring it, simply for the opportunity to create conflict?

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                She isn't referring to these forums. She is referring to the forums labelled Christian.

                She posted the thread in the atheist section because she is addressing atheists in her line of query.

                1. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks, Vector.

                  I just assumed everyone would know why I posted in the atheist section.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Anytime.

                    wink

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And, that will accomplish what?

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It will accomplish them not being able to preach to you.  If they come to the atheist forums, just ignore them.  They will soon go away.

  12. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    Well it was fun ....   

       I'm all clean and smelling good ......  Got my cowboy boots on; ... 
       

       I'm going out and have some more.   

      Later.

  13. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Pontius Pilate existed. Herod (both of them) existed. Peter and Paul existed. James the Lesser existed. Joseph of Arimathea existed. Even the Jews don't deny that Jesus existed. You all sound quite ignorant of these facts.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol Yes, we're ignorant of facts.

      1. aka-dj profile image80
        aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Nice to have some admissions for a change. lol

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Which fact are you laughing about. Obviously you don't know much about logical fallacies and what a slippery slope you are on! Pilate is recorded in Rome, as is Paul and Peter. Arimathea is also recorded in Rome as some kind of mining minister. The Jews don't deny Jesus lived, they merely deny him as their messiah. And yes, those facts which you are totally ignorant of you gets the same response as the one you just gave. Therefore, you are also ignorant of how to debate.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol Yes, the Jews lack of denial is hard evidence of Jesus' existence.

            1. Druid Dude profile image61
              Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Don't you think THEY would if they thought it actually was an issue? Why not deny that Alexander existed, or any one of the Pharoahs? Maybe Abraham didn't exist. There are no muslims, there are no Jews. Pathetic.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Jews believe in all kinds of ridiculous nonsense when it comes to religion.



                Funny how you confuse hard evidence with myths. lol

                1. Druid Dude profile image61
                  Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No where did I say that it was "Hard" evidence. The existence of those around the main figure of Jesus is indicative that the man really lived. Now, as to whether or not he posessed super powers is totally another issue. That is better solid ground for a debate. To deny one prehistoric life is pointless and inarguable from a logical point of view. Sorry, but I think you are not terrible good in this forum, or any other religious forum. It isn't what you are putting in your mouth which defiles you! It is what's coming out. Get a grip, old guy!smile

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, just like eggs are indicative to the existence of the Easter Bunny.



                    lol From an incredible weak argument to focusing on me. Well done, sir. Your logical fallacies are stacked high and wide.

    2. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
      EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It's not ignorance, but lack of support for saying the man existed. We are not denying the others ever existed, take a little from factual history can make most anything seem real when written correctly. It does not however, make it actually real. We can prove that those people existed, but there is no record anywhere outside of the bible that Jesus ever existed. Some say that his real name is Joshua and that's why we cant find proof, but the proof we look for is the disciples that were always with him, the crowds that followed him, things such as that, of which there is no evidence in history at all. That is why at least, I claim that he didn't exist, at least as not more than man and certainly not with all the crowds and such that are proclaimed to have been around him. Likely not even with the disciples.

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think a billion christians speak pretty loudly. It started as twelve. Most people who have ever lived are not recorded anywhere. Do you doubt they existed? Here's a good for instance: They say that YESHUA was crucified. Crucifixion has only one piece of hard evidence. One single heel bone with a spike through it, yet, it was a VERY popular form of punishment, especially in the Roman empire. During the Spartacus rebellion, thousands of people were crucified, and it was also popular in Carthage, and probably several other places, and still, all we have is one heel bone that suggests it was a real form of punishment.

        1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          They assume much about history, I don't deny this. However, I don't try to make heads or tails of things when I run into inconclusive facts. You say a billion Christians speak pretty loudly, but you have to remember as well that during the time of Jesus, he was only amongst the Jews, and only the Jews that were local to his location at that. We can claim several things from this, but we really don't need to claim anything. If you consider the bible a history book, and you consider it as 100% factual, then there is a lot that you have to learn to accept from it. First is that Jesus was a Jew. Second is the Jesus only spoke with the Jews. Third is that Jesus was a teacher amongst the Jews and there for had to be married, as was their law. Fourth Jesus never once said that he came to change the law, only to fulfill it. I could keep going with things that have to be learned from it but what is the point? A believer in anything is going to believe regardless of what you say, do, or can prove. In the end it all changed nothing. We just end up in a long, rather pointless, debate about the subject of what a person chooses to believe.

          The facts however, no matter how you try to spin them, are completely and utterly inconclusive. You say billions of Christians, but when the only followers of Christ were Jews, and didn't even number in the millions much less billions, it's kind of hard to claim. Jews were kept strict count of as their ideals might do what they did in the time of Constantine and cause problems. As a result, though Constantine never converted, he did bring Christianity to a nation and start something that allowed it to grow and gather more followers.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image61
            brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            amongst the Jews and there for had to be married, as was their law.

            NOT TRUE
            Jesus was not an ORDAINED teacher or rabbi. This was a title of respect  not one due to mans ordination.
                       Jesus never wrote the test lol

            1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
              EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              He lived amongst the Jews and was regarded as a prophet and a teacher. Not to mention he came to fulfill Jewish law, not some made up stuff that people want to believe. In order to fulfill Jewish law he would have had to have been married before attempting to teach. It's not about being ordained in anything, it's about the laws of the people and showing the up most respect for those laws as you try to fulfill them in order to prove that they can be fulfilled. If you take that away then Jesus was a man of sin, which negates his divinity and infallibility. The fact that he was without sin is what established his divinity and subsequently his infallibility.

    3. Leafy Den profile image80
      Leafy Denposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I cannot answer for others but I agree that there are factual historical elements in the Bible. There are even some words of wisdom in the Bible. But, the part where it says that Jesus died for people's sins and the only way to God is through Jesus Christ and the bit about eternal life in heaven is the part where it goes fictional/fairy tale. I do not believe that the Bible is the word of God. I believe it is someone's interpretation of stories, of things that were said, fiction combined with facts. Shakespeare's plays were set in a lot of real places and he used real people from history but a lot of the stories were fictionalized. The Bible is simply a compilation of mixed fact and fiction.

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The Iliad was once considered totally fiction. I will add that much that Jesus said has been misinterpreted. Correct interpretations may exist, but not in the mainstream. Cofusion begins when one tries to determine between Jesus and the spirit which was speaking through him. Paul didn't help, because he stands many times in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus. Comparing a writer to another is also risky, as some writers write from facts, some writers don't, and there is a full spectrum in between. Might as well discuss whether or not Buddha existed.

        1. Leafy Den profile image80
          Leafy Denposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          How do you personally know that what Jesus said was misinterpreted? Were you there? Did you get a chance to take Jesus aside and ask him what he really meant? And, remind me, what does this have to do with Buddha? LOL!

          1. Druid Dude profile image61
            Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Since you got here late. Buddha is historical as much as Jesus is, yet his existence isn't disputed. How do I know about misinterpretation. Pick ten different churches and find out what they believe...ten differnt interpretations. Jesus' help isn't required for this. unless, of course, you want it from the horse's mouth, reading what he actually said reveals that many of his followers are barking up the wrong tree. I think it's that part about throwing the first stone.

            1. Leafy Den profile image80
              Leafy Denposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Going by the topic of this thread, it is about Atheists and Christians... If you read my posts, I never said anything about Buddha. If other people did, well, I have nothing to do with that. But, since you mention it, when I took the comparative world religions course at university many years ago, the dispute over Buddha's existence was raised. Apparently, his existence is disputed but maybe not with the same fervor as the dispute over Jesus' existence. I believe that if Jesus did exist, which he probably did in some form, his words have been misinterpreted simply because of so many translations and human nature to apply meaning to what is said even when it is mostly guesswork as best. Most modern languages have a lot of colloquialisms that thousands of years from now could be very misinterpreted simply because the people deciphering it will not understood how it was used and understood in daily conversation. By the way, I am not an atheist, a Christian or a Buddhist so, maybe I am not qualified to even be commenting on this thread but I found the reasoning behind what was being said fascinating.

  14. wilmiers77 profile image60
    wilmiers77posted 4 years ago

    Jesus is confirmed within our mind in our spirit. Although, I am sure that Jesus existed. If you haven't found Him in historical records, than maybe by Him being a threat to the powers that be at the time they attempted to eradicate the records. After all, for a historical figure  to have changed the world to the extent as Jesus has, being fictitious is overwhelmingly unlikely.

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      My point exactly. I will add that there are probably elements of exaggeration, as all stories that are passed by word of mouth usually present. Different perspectives of eye witnesses, etc. but even our myths have a grain of truth obscurred by millenia of retelling.

      1. wilmiers77 profile image60
        wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks! Helpful point for me.

    2. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
      EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You assuming that Jesus was much of a threat to anyone. He is purported to be a man of peace, which would mean that he was no threat to anyone, ever. Unless you want to contest that that is not true? Eradicating records, seem to be thought of as a highly common practice. The truth is, that it happened rarely, and only through a complete change of Government. At the time of Jesus and Herod, Rome was in power and that didn't change for a long time after that. There would've been no reason to change or eradicate the records then. If they exist and are not there, there must be another reason for it.

      Your claiming Jesus has changed the world. The problem is that nothing has changed from the time he arrived until now, except that science has become more popular and a lot of the Christian Denominations indirectly have a lot of innocent blood on their hands. Something that they didn't have before.

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Now your turn: "I came NOT TO BRING PEACE, but division and a sword. I will set a mother against her daughter, and a father against his son." He could lay claim to Herod's crown. That is why he was perceived as a threat. He didn't scare Rome then....that would come later. He also said that knowledge would increase. He also said that EVERYONE would be following after the beast....and they are, even his own "Followers", who really follow Paul.

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And if christianity hasn't markedly changed the world...then why worry about it?

        2. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I can concur with that as I perhaps understand better then most what your saying there. He did say that he came to bring division and a sword. Again nothing that I contest. That could be why was perceived as a threat, though he himself never tried to lay claim to Herod's crown, others didn't that for him.

          It's not for me about whether or not Christianity has markedly changed the world, it's about the misconceptions people have about what they are doing and why they are doing it. Many only know what has been told to them or implyd around them. To know the truth is to see the way. I don't dispute God's existence, I just dispute the way in which people decide they are going to interpret the bible, or more accurately, the way in which they allow it to be interpreted to them as many don't take the time to study, read, and learn on their own.

      2. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You assuming that Jesus was much of a threat to anyone. He is purported to be a man of peace, which would mean that he was no threat to anyone, ever.

        The Pharisees considered him a threat. One cannot berate and logically crush a top gun and not get away with it. Jesus kicked at the law and said basically, it is folly to follow the law you cannot keep it and you don't keep it. This made them angry and they plotted to kill him.

        and as Druid said.. Jesus knew that preaching the ONE way to GOD was gonna create division, he did not avoid mentioning it or preaching it because it is/was true. There is no political correctness in Jesus, no whitewashing the intent of God or downplaying of what God is doing and some were gonna be left behind, some were gonna get angry, some were gonna destroy a household.

        Unless you want to contest that that is not true?
        not true, i could quote you scripture but that would just get you angry again

        Eradicating records
        there really is no need to eradicate records since religious movements were not considered historical or noteworthy material by the romans.
        Acts 5:38   And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, ran a school of Law said that.
        The only people who regarded God were the Jews and God is intertwined with Jewish history - the two are inseparable. So Rome would not care to document this, albeit, a few hastened some words to paper.

        Your claiming Jesus has changed the world. The problem is that nothing has changed from the time he arrived until now,

        I think this is quite the statement. You look on the worldview of this as being insignificant but you ignore that the message of the bible is not that God will change the world, but God will change you. So the nothing you say has happened has happened in individual lives. Jesus said "the world hates me therefore it hates you". Jesus never intended for the world to change although he longed for that to happen but he did often say, He would change lives. So the change you don't see happening, happens on individual people and God smiles at that.

        except that science has become more popular
        Yah i see science majors graduating all the time from schools.
        "To give an example, last summer 12,000 psychology students and 10,000 history students graduated (I chose these subjects because they are two of the most popular - psychology is actually the fastest growing in the UK). In the same year, only 2200 physics students and 2400 chemistry students graduated."
        This may not be a popularity poll but google what you say next time and enough with the assumptions.


        and a lot of the Christian Denominations indirectly have a lot of innocent blood on their hands. Something that they didn't have before.

        oh i dislike this. Catholics not christians. I know you are referring to catholicism. The last time my church and i went on a crusade was... ummmmmmmmmmm..... never.

        1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus never kicked at the law. He in fact quite frequently told people that they had to follow the law, that they had to give tax payers their do. The one thing he is showing as having done against the law is to throw the tax payers from the temple when he was child. That is the only time he shown to challenge anything to do with law at all.

          Your assuming I've gotten angry in the first place. Assumption just makes an ass out of you. Something worth remembering with all the assumptions to tend to make.

          Religious movements were considered very very noteworthy. Thus do we have some record of the Jews through the Romans. We also have a record of the establishment of the Catholic Church. These things were recorded by the romans because they knew of the troubles that could be caused by Religion and Belief. To say that they were not considered Historical or Noteworthy is proven wrong just by the simple fact that they did indeed record such things.

          I never said anything about the Religion not changing people on an individual level. What I was saying was in reply to "After all, for a historical figure  to have changed the world to the extent as Jesus has, being fictitious is overwhelmingly unlikely." In order to accurately make that claim, you must assume that Jesus has changed the entire world. The entire world is unchanged and unaffected by the coming or going of Jesus. Only those who choose to be affected by it have been, which in NO way denotes the entire world.

          Psychology and history are both forms of science. Perhaps you need to understand what it is your saying before you decide to challenge something.

          No, Catholics directly have a lot of blood on their hands. Other Christians, by allowing them to do what they did and continue to do, indirectly have blood on their hands. The worst kind of evil is the evil of good men and women doing nothing.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            He said what the Bible says.. You follow the law of the land you're in. With the exception it conflicts with God's law.

            Under which circumstance you follow God's law, even if man says not to.

            smile

          2. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "After all, for a historical figure  to have changed the world to the extent as Jesus has, being fictitious is overwhelmingly unlikely."

            "TO THE EXTENT..."  is a limiting expression to entire world. Not entire world!

            But, one must admit that Jesus has been one of the most influential persons during the pass 2000 years. In the 13th century Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire Jesus became virtually king during those dark ages. 

            You must remember that the hierarchy of the church was the history recorders and keepers. Since they were responsible for the crucifixtion of Jesus, I am sure they wouldn't have recorded and kept such records. The Romans didn't really give a sh**t.

            1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
              EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I will give you that the effect that Jesus has had on people over the last 2,000 years is quite impressive. To the extent that he is debated by most everyone is impressive in and of itself, so I will give you that one.

              The Church as it has come to be known was not established until after the time of Jesus. Their history recorders and keepers would therefore be irrelevant in this. The Romans, more specifically Herod, charged Jesus with treason and conspiracy to take the throne, which would then have to be recorded so that the Emperor or current Caesar would know what happened and why. The Jews at that time, though not all over the world still had a powerful presence in the society in which they lived. They would've been highly upset at the crucifixion of their Prophet which could cause an uprising. Caesar would've had to be informed in order to make sure Herod had enough troops to be able to subdue the masses if they did decide to rise up.

              1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I agree about the church because they used only word of mouth. This word of mouth was completely recorded and compiled into the bible 300 years after Christ Jesus.

                As far as the Romans are concerned, Rome was not that centralized as many people may think. Regional governors made all decides final; they only called on Rome if had need of more soldiers and materials. At which time, the governor had to justify such action to the Emperor. Much authority was delegated to the subordinates of the Emperor. Communication was difficult during such time. The Emperor at the time only received army need help to hold the region or to assure that region is sending tax revenue.

                The Jesus episode was actually insignificant to the ruling Emperor. I am not surprise that no records have been uncovered about the Jesus episode. Although, I have heard that there are record. I shall do farther research.

                1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
                  EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I plan on doing more research as well as I personally would like to know. What will be found, only time will tell.

                  I give you that Communication was difficult, and it could be that any plea for more troops might have never made it to Caesar. That is fully possible as caravans and messengers were frequently attacked during those times. If they were attacked though, then the record would still exist, we'd just have to find out what happened to it.

                  1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Amen EinderDarkwolf.

      3. wilmiers77 profile image60
        wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Than, why was he crucified by the powers that was if not being enough of a threat?

        Why wouldn't the Romans not desire to eradicate the records? There is a possibility that the records never made it to Rome, but as you stated the government did change, and more nearer the event then to the present. What you pose is too weak; flying around like a butterfly.

        Jesus has changed the world. I don't believe you know the impact that Jesus has had on our social development over the pass 2000 years.

        1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus was crucified because the people were declaring him King, not because of anything he himself did. The Jews caused his crucifixion indirectly when they began these claims. The claims in turn became a threat to Herod. Jesus himself did nothing to promote such things.

          Why would the Romans desire to eradicate their own records? Especially when not to far later they would accept him as a saviour and turn him into a government religion? If they have the evidence to support him, why destroy such a thing? It would only make their Governmental Religion all the more popular. He didn't threaten the foundations of Rome. In fact he ended up strengthening them that much more. You say that what I'm posing is weak, yet there is no reason for them to have destroyed these records except that it supports what you claim. There is no reason at all for them to have destroyed them at all. They ended up needing them in fact. The records not existing would've had to have been noted when they went looking for them at the establishment of the Catholic church.

          1. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You have a good argue, except that the Roman's didn't care about keeping a record of Jesus. If one read the Jesus episode, than one can see that the threat was to the Jewish religious hierarchy and not the Roman government. It was very common for holy men to rise into popularity during those times, and Jesus was no exception to the Roman government. Recall that when Jesus was taken to the Roman Governor, and he became irritated about it...finally saying that I find no fault in this man. Take him back to Herod...this is a Jew matter, and this was spoken with prejudice, like "Don't bring him back to me." The Roman's was only interested in persons that attempted to organize a rebellion against them. Jesus faultily being accuse of saying that he was king of the Jews weighted little; after all, Herod was a Jewish King, and he would be threaten only. Also, recall that even Herod gave the people the choice to crucify Jesus or Rabis(?) showing that Herod didn't feel that threaten. It was the religious Jewish hierarchy that insisted that Jesus be crucified. They felt very threaten.

            So, I hold strongly onto what I previously posed. No record on file. Jesus becoming King of the Catholic Church established by Emperor Constantinople only led to a situation of "heck, we should have recorded the Jesus episode!"

            1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
              EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              In that light I can agree with you. We unfortunately have no way of knowing the mind of the people so we cannot say for certain, but this doesn't present another way of looking at it.

              Haha, there are unfortunately many instances of that, even today!

  15. peeples profile image90
    peeplesposted 4 years ago

    I usually go to christian forums for two reasons. One is to try and understand them a little better because my husband is christian. The other reason is because sadly I am kind of like them in the sense that when I see them speak about how we atheist have no morals I feel a strong need to tell them how wrong they are.

    1. brotheryochanan profile image61
      brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I hope you take into account the harsh atheists that rant and try to disrupt and destroy just for the sake of some psychological reason they have. You have to admit we have some doozies in here and for the amount of abuse the christians take, we suck it up well. I am sure the atheist would be punching first in any meeting for coffee.
      enjoy....
      I am extremely glad to know your best and loving husband is christian. God hears every sincere heart and has healing for all things.

      1. peeples profile image90
        peeplesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I do understand that there are extremist in any group. Honestly the atheist who bash for the sake of bashing make me sick because they make us all look like fools. As for who would throw the first punch, who can tell. I have known crazies on both sides of the table! I just wish we could all come to accept that disagreeing doesn't have to mean name calling and bashing.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hi peeples, welcome to HP forums. Allow me to introduce you to the real brotheryochanan and some words he had for one of our most esteemed atheist members who recently passed away; Earnest...


          "brotheryochanan wrote:

          So much i could say but it would be construed as just nasty meanness.
          and you'd probably be right.

          I Don't know where you get this mr nice guy stuff from? My perception is that he lied constantly, printed misinformation willingly, made himself out to be someone who he wasn't. Was blatantly rude beyond what is normal. He spewed crap like it was second nature and the list goes on.

          The only thing i think he knew was cars.
                   
          I am just glad he isn't going to be in torments the rest of eternity, burned by the fires of hell - cuz that don't exist. He went peaceful - so we are told and he will get what he wanted - nothingness after death.

          He could have done so much better but he held onto the anger.
          Lets hope others find God through loss."

          http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/88788

  16. artblack01 profile image82
    artblack01posted 4 years ago

    Because they are in the majority in America, they help to put people into offices of power and they constantly violate our basic freedoms and our 1st Amendment rights, they try and prosthelytize our children as they have done and continue to try and do to us.  If you remain silent that can be mistaken for acceptance.  I don't bash I merely contradict the things I find to be wholly untrue, assumptions, logical fallacies or out and out lies.

    1. artblack01 profile image82
      artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. peeples profile image90
        peeplesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        In short respect is earned by all no matter beliefs.

        1. artblack01 profile image82
          artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          smile

    2. artblack01 profile image82
      artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Not to mention being immaturely attacked by people such as Vector7, who, when having lost an argument and having nothing more to say in his defense proceeds to attack a person's character and claim victory in an argument without providing any evidence for his claim....  this is the sort of thing I have seen in the last 20 years of having this sort of conversation with Christians, many of them do this and it pushes me further from the respect that other nice Christians, such as Claire Evans, deserves.

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol, You aggrevated the pee out of me and now I'm your attacker???


        lol lol lol

        Get over yourself. You asked for me to pick at you, and please quote me from now on.

        I haven't said anything mean to you.

        Everyone has a finger to point and nothing to show.. lol

        Btw, slandering my name behind my back all over the threads without an ounce of proof? THAT is attacking character. wink

        No quote necessary, just look up.

        Drop it and you'll never hear another peep, but I won't let you go around spilling lies.

        Quotes, and you get apologies. Lies, and you get proof they are such.

        smile

  17. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    He was crucified because those who were threatened by him insisted on it...the Jews of the San Hedren, etc. Rome wasn't threatened by Jesus, but they didn't want to fire a Jewish revolt. This is why Pilate washed his hands of the matter

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      They visit the Insane Christian Forums because all of the Insane Atheist forums are BORING!

      1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
        EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol, perhaps I should go check out the Atheist (anyone else notice that Atheist if separated say a theist?) and liven them up a bit..

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes. That is because Atheist is the same kind of word as asexual. No, that isn't a slam. "A" in this instance is a prefix

          1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
            EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Kind of like scientists will believe facts and only accept theories until proven fact? Kind of kills the point in saying that you don't believe in a God of any type and such then..after all they are all theories...interesting and thank you Druid Dude.

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Scientists speak of evolution as fact..

              It's a theory.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And, we are to understand that you're statement, from the perspective of a religious believer who claims to have met Jesus is somehow valid over that of what scientists claim? lol

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  lol

                  Yay yay !

                  It's soo funny

                  lol

                  ...


                  neutral

                  Seriously

                  1. Insane Mundane profile image60
                    Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I know this isn't my conversation or whatever, but why is it when y'all overly abuse emoticons, it reminds me of the old Arcade game called Pac-Man?
                    LOL!

                2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                  wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Other scientist say that it is a theory. Experience is king.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol What? So-called Christian scientists? Again, you are just being dishonest.

  18. Slave2ChristJesus profile image61
    Slave2ChristJesusposted 4 years ago

    I believe you mean Emperor Constantine. Constantinople was the city named after Constantine I.

  19. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Looks like this has turned into an insane christian hub. Christians +1, Lions 0.smile

    1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
      EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Any chance to learn and grow should be taken, no matter what your religion, beliefs, or place in which you reside. smile

    2. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol...

  20. christianajohan profile image61
    christianajohanposted 4 years ago

    Atheists visit Christian forums not to actually to criticize but to know the truth and they can't find happiness being alone.

    Blessed be all of you and you may find the true path of life.

    Those who visit here in Christian forums maybe are born atheists and seeking God but those who became atheists from Christian are hypocrites and arrogant and may lost their ways in the future.

    They are ungrateful of the blessings they receive from God.

    1. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yet all we find are LIES!



      BASELESS!!!



      Which God?  Thor, Ra, Zeus....the Ju-Ju of the Sea?

      1. OutWest profile image60
        OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So if all you find are lies...what are you doing here????

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Waiting on one of you to tell the truth.  Can YOU tell the truth?  Or are you another liar for Jeebus...with no integrity?  Please give me something more than the childish foolishness I've been reading from all the deluded believers in these forums...so I can become a believer, therefore I won't have to go to hell.  roll

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "another liar for Jeebus..."

            What are you?

            A Mark Knowles mini-me?

            lol

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Since I am a 200 pound former Marine, I take issue with anyone using the term mini to describe me.

              Furthermore, if I want to use the term "Jeebus" there is no refeence to Mark, as he did not coin the term.  So what is your point, except to  show adolescence.

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Your size wasn't being referenced in physical terms...lol

                You think he didn't coin the term? I think he'd disagree. wink

                And very testy for someone with numerous exclamation points in most of his posts.

                Using that picture of me might as well fool you, as I'm not 'that dumb kid' you're thinking of.

                If you don't like the association then I wouldn't use the phrases common to his reputation. Think?

                smile

              2. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I forgot to say thank you.

                I prefer looking young rather than old.

                I used to hate it. But I've come to appreciate it.

                wink

                1. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I thought you were about 15.  Seriously.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Well thx man!

                    Really?

                    Well, maybe it'll stay that way. The girls usually shoot at 22, but I'm not that young either.

                    Boy, you made my day. Not that I think you meant to.. lol

                    I'm not worried what you or anyone else thinks about my looks if that tells you anything. wink

                    But I'll take the compliment.

                    smile

              3. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am a 235 pound former paratrooper of the 82nd Airborne kind, and I take issue with anyone using Jeebus when referring to my Lord Jesus who was crucified on the cross for all of us as does my brother in the Body of Christ, Vector7. I am not angry, but I do defend Jesus.

                Once I saw the light, my faith has been revealing truth after truth, epitomes after epitomes, and mysteries after mysteries; revealing atheist as hopelessly fighting in a small arena of life. They even think that they are seeing more than Jesus lovers.

                I can not prove God to you, the atheist, but God continues to reveal Himself thru Jesus to me and others of the body of Christ.

                Atheist scream no when a follower of Jesus says that they will pray for them, but deep in the atheist heart they are wanting to be saved. Physical death is one thing, but spiritual (soul) eternal death is another thing.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, you defend Jesus so much that you have to make blatant and dishonest false statements to defend Him.

                  How sad and desperate is that.

                  1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Personal experiences supercede science and especially any other layman's opinion. Experience is the father of knowledge.

                  2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    If you knew what I meant by being saved, than I would hold you responsible for your comment.

                2. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Why would you take issue with something that was not even personally directed at you?  Furthermore, since Jesus is imaginary, the only point that you seem to be asserting is that you have a serious disconnect with reality.



                  Get Real.  You are only suffocating your mind with psychosis.  You are learning nothing but how to be a non-thinker...a sheep.  This delusional god can do nothing.



                  And you think that somehow you are to be taken seriously when you rant testimonies like this, then conclude, by your very own words, that you have NO PROOF.  Please never go to court with this mentality.



                  You continue with this delusional rant although your credibility is completely shot.  Never underestimate the power of a silly 2000 year old LIE, I guess.



                  Saved from what?  Get rid of these worn out old fashioned beliefs, dude.  This BS doesn't mean a thing to anyone except the fearful deluded mind.  Join the 21st century.



                  More ranting with no proof.  Just how do you expect atheist to believe you?  Just what are we doing wrong?  Since you have provided no proof, and admitted that you CAN'T provide any, why are you p_ssed at us for doing what you, yourself, would actually do...if someone gave a testimonial about an expensive product, then asked you to buy it, with no proof that the product even existed?  WOULD YOU BUY IT?  WOULD YOU?  This is a serious disconnect from reality.

                  1. Insane Mundane profile image60
                    Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's right, getitrite!  You tell 'em!
                    How can they religiously rant before your atheist chant!?
                    Why do they even try to tell you a bogus tale before you speak about a fictitious evolutionary whale!?
                    How dare them speak of philosophic hell while you're an angel that can scientifically sing well!
                    Yeah, make those atheists look good!
                    To hell with Noah and the flood!
                    LOL!
                    You guys are funny, I'll give ya that...  lol

                  2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "Jeebus" my friend. Are you that insensitive not to know why I responded.

                    The hold that you think you have on reality is fallacious. Check with a few science disciplines concerning reality. I suggest psychology, physics, and futuristic engineering for starters.

                    The future is in the imagination. All technology of today began in the imagination. I am sure that you are not responsible for none of it. By your previous comments the device would have to be shown to you as proof that it exist!! Dead head.

                    Ever thought of where your emotions originate? The mind does more involuntary work constantly than conscience work. This involuntary activity goes deep into the inner sanctuary of the mind. I would recommend that you study some of those scientists research, but it might shatter your logical and supposedly connected to reality mind when you read the positive role that Christianity plays. Dr. Carolyn Leaf

                    Governments love your kind of mind because they can easily become your reality. Believe me, they will prove logically to you anything that they want too. They have to respect Christians who have a personal relationship with God.

          2. OutWest profile image60
            OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I could not care less about making you a beliver getitrite.  If you want to believe so badly than just belive and stop asking others to give you their proof.  Otherwise go away and leave the believers in peace.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So, does that mean believers will leave everyone else alone, keep their beliefs behind closed doors and stop evangelizing? Is that a promise?

              1. OutWest profile image60
                OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Does that also mean that atheists will stop invading the believers' threads Troubled?  And other peoples' replies like getitrite to me?

              2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hell no!!!! No devils are going to stop me.

                1. OutWest profile image60
                  OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What about Angels? lol

                  1. Druid Dude profile image61
                    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    When did they last win a pennant?

                2. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Devils are imaginary.  Anyone believing otherwise is clearly not thinking for himself.

              3. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                trouble man! Trouble Man! Have you observed any events occurring that have probability of 10exp[-59]. I was wondering since most physicist would like to know. Oh, BTW, have you figured how that light got on the head of a fish? The charge is supplied by what power mechanism? Help us trouble, how did the power mechanism evolve since the light needed a charge. Hee! Hee! Hee!

            2. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What a ridiculous and weak cop-out.  It appears you have no sense of accountability.  You assert some ridiculously outlandish beliefs...refuse to provide any proof...then hold ME accountable.

               

              Stop copping out, and provide some proof of your claims please.  It's that simple.  Then I will become saved, and then other believers and I will come together in peace...and in Christ.

              1. OutWest profile image60
                OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I think you have me all wrong.  I don't care if you believe or not.

                1. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well as long as you support the comments of others who assert this nonsense, you are fair game for rebuttal.  Do you understand that?

                  1. OutWest profile image60
                    OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Maybe you should listen to what I have to say instead of lumping me together with everyone else.

    2. 0
      AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      (Atheists visit Christian forums not to actually to criticize but to know the truth and they can't find happiness being alone.)

      christianajohan,

      Here is the header from the top of this page:
      Forums
      Religion and Philosophy
      Atheism and Agnosticism

      So I must assume you are visiting this atheist forum for the same reason.

    3. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
      EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Religion doesn't mean Christian. This is not a Christian forum. However,  I'd have to agree with Winston, you must be here for the same reason.

      1. 0
        jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        She must be here for the reason she sited, and extrapolated the reason to others!

  21. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Study every letter, upper, lower cases. Look at periods and commas. Look for meaning beyond what has been drummed into you.

    1. EinderDarkwolf profile image60
      EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That might make some peoples brains hurt..proceed with caution!

  22. christianajohan profile image61
    christianajohanposted 4 years ago

    How's the forum? I respect everyone atheist or not but let their be too much trouble here. We must have a discussion only not too much personally. This is the reason why we Christians must to. To explain to both believers and non-believers. God is giving His sunlight to good and evil. So calm down.

    Jesus forgives even to His death. Jesus said we must follow Him. We must forgive if someone has stepped down  our own philosophy in life and personal logic.

    1. 0
      AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No thanks, I don't drink.

  23. mischeviousme profile image61
    mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago
  24. MakinBacon profile image84
    MakinBaconposted 4 years ago

    I guess atheists aren't too bright if you have to continually ask the question "why bother?" visiting Christian forums.

    It seems the reason why you just have to make yourself feel good about your self-deception. Why don't you hang out with the non-believers and their forums? Is anyone stopping you?

    You must simply feel a close connection to Christ if you always come back over and over again. Just give in and believe if you can't stay away.

    1. 0
      AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      (Why don't you hang out with the non-believers and their forums?)

      MakinBacon,

      Again it seems a poster cannot or chooses not to read.  The header at the top says this:

      All Forums
      Religion and Philosophy
      Atheism and Agnosticism
      Athiests, why bother visiting insane Christian forums?

      And, what was the reason you said you were here?

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol.. you act like he stated this was the Christian forum..

        Notice he didn't say 'here'?

        He addressed the OP..

        smile

        1. 0
          AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          He didn't understand the OP - as if you would get that, either.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I think I'll let people see your error for themselves this time.

            Happy posting.

            smile

  25. getitrite profile image80
    getitriteposted 4 years ago

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19

  26. ib radmasters profile image60
    ib radmastersposted 4 years ago

    does anyone know what is going on here.
    I certainly didn't read these threads.

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I know tthis. Opposing sides makes the forum. A forum with only one opinion and everybody playing "yes man" is a forum not worth conducting. In short, forums are for debate, and you can't debate without opposition. If you don't want an opposition....go to church.

  27. wilmiers77 profile image60
    wilmiers77posted 4 years ago

    No devils!! Are you deaf and dumb?

    1. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      According to Jesus Christ, yes.. they unfortunately are bro.

  28. jonnycomelately profile image86
    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago

    wilmiers77, the above is one way of looking at it, if one is a "believer."  Can you accept that from the point of view of a non-"believer" the following explanation would be closer to the truth?

    Catastrophes may be caused by natural phenomena or from human-generated influences.  "Natural" would include, for example, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, lightening.  Human generated influences would include famine because people had been careless or lazy in preparing their crops; a landslide because building and construction work had not allowed for water flows and soil structure; wars and skirmishes which destroyed crop-growing areas. 

    In the "natural" cases, they are outside of human choice, except that in some cases we can use our intelligence to avoid the effects.  The human influences are usually something we can make choices about, if we use intelligence and good communication with each other.

    In neither case does one need to presume a "god" to be involved.  Everything can be explained in terms of the laws of physics and/or the lack of human wisdom.

    If each of us, christian and non-christian alike, can live with the different points of view, surely we can then get on with the important issues of life....such as preparing the fields for growing crops, or carefully planning construction sites.


    Even if we were to accept your notion of "sin," there is far more worth in learning about our mental processes which make us steal, rape or murder, and learning discipline to prevent those crimes, than worrying about what the mythical "god" will do to us, the existence of which is infinitely debatable.

    1. 0
      AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't see how anyone can seriously suggest compromise to the fundamentalist, when people like Pat Robertson say things like this about the Dover School Board Intelligent Design trial: 

      This is a blatant attempt to cause social change by appealing to fear - and it is disgusting.

      The fundamental message is one of bigotry, and bigotry should never be tolerated, accepted, or allowed any foothold in society.

      1. wilmiers77 profile image60
        wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

        What? Are you suggesting that we ignore a reality or even outlaw speaking of a reality. I thought you were a man of free thought and speech as you preached from your dead rock religion.

        This makes more sense: your dead rock church does led to death.

        1. 0
          AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You make more witless, unsubstatiated claims than just about any other theist on hubpages. 

          Tell us all what do you mean by "wisdom".  We all need a completely unambiguous definition to know what you are saying.  Once you have defined this key word, explain to us how fear will lead us to this formidable word: wisdom - and again, don't use supernatural explanations as all you are doing then is saying it is all because of Tinkerbell the Fairy. 

          If you care about what you are saying, you have to be rational to avoid ridicule.  Crying over and over, Yes, but I believe you will burn! is not a rational explanation. 

          Next, explain to us all what you mean by reality, and then explain how your personal belief system is the equivalent of reality.  I don't suggest we ignore reality - but if you want to talk about it we have to define reality and do so in unambiguous language that does not constitute a bunch of what ifs and maybes.

          One thing is certain: there are no what ifs or maybes in reality.  Something either is or it is not. 

          Your move - or have you checkmated yourself with claims of non-reality realities?

        2. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          FEAR is the very natural animal instinct which intervenes when something unusual presents itself.  It is no less natural in us human animals.  It is one of the fundamental factors which drive christians.  And the churches use it ad infinitum in order to control the masses of people who are unable to think for them selves.  A CHURCH is the Convenient Hierarchical Use of Religion for the Control of Humanity.  They get you frightened so that you can confess and be controlled with promises.

          Fear itself is not the beginning of wisdom.  The human intellect which allows us to work our way around, through or over the top of what is causing the fear.... that is the beginning of wisdom!

          In my opinion, when you fall back on the intangible "faith," you are copping out... being brain lazy, especially if you are in fact an intelligent person.

          Granted, a faith can be extremely valuable, critical in the lives of some individuals.  I would not deny them that, I am in no place to do so.  However, you can forget "miracles."  You will wait through eternity if you expect a salvation for yourself.  Pipe dreams.  Like a lottery ticket.  If you win, it's a statistical chance, nothing to do with someone high above treating you as special.

          1. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I am sure you have jumped on a horse in the middle of the river. At the root cause of wisdom fear is the initial motivator to create antidotes; this is the resulting wisdom or the thereafter fear has established wisdom.

            Sugar coated crap taste the same after the coat.

            1. Insane Mundane profile image60
              Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Experience often separates, but it would be nice if your thoughts could permeate the masses, right?  Unfortunately, God or the lack of a God is a big problem for many. Things would be simpler if we could just say that we are all apart of the universe (God) or that we are all atomically connected to the cosmos and be done with it, albeit that's not usually the case. People have problems and often look for something outside when everything you need is from within. Sort of like studying fractals, for example, as the pattern that follows from here and on down can also work in a reverse fashion. It never seems to end, really... But it is always something and never nothing, if that makes any sense to ya.
              Good luck preaching to these folks, although you'd probably be better off being a wise-ass like me, that way the respect given would at least be mutual between the two, atheist & theist.  Agnostics are always excluded from this type of debate, of course, so pay attention to who you piss off; just saying...  wink

              1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well, I choose the Word of God. I can't satisfy all the people all the time, and most likely never. So, I preach the Word of God, and let the cards fall where they may.

                Jesus said that I bring a sword, a sharp two edged sword which is the Word of God. So, I expect opposition from some Christians, all atheist, and a few agnostics. I refuse to compromise the Word of God.

                When I write fiction I shall attempt to permeate the minds of the people plus sweeten, add spicy seasonings and plenty of sex. I agree with your advise in this case.

    2. wilmiers77 profile image60
      wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You have eloquently prescribed resolve for the nonbelievers concerning catastrophes. This is not and never was my objective. My objective is one of faith. God can work with one faithful believer, but the multitudes of nonbelievers need millions of persons like you to avoid catastrophes. Why? It's the collective sin, the inundated acts of sin, among the people. Since I addressed sin, this would imply acts by men such as war, murders, and rapes.

      If no God, the universe and life forms would not exist. First cause can be ignored, but can not be denied in the conscience of man. Man has been exposed to the intelligent design of the universe and himself, and has learned from it. But, arrogantly claims all for self while denying God.

  29. Andme26 profile image56
    Andme26posted 4 years ago

    Because we are open minded we want to learn research then it turns out is just insane and we run away

  30. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Here is a thought, which I happened to be thinking last night. The three main religions constitute approximately three billion people, and according to the last world census, there are three billion chinese. The worlds population is roughly six billion. So, in conclusion, half the world is religious and the other half is chinese.smile

    1. Insane Mundane profile image60
      Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I thought the world population is estimated to be close to 7 billion?
      Oh, great, that means we got 1 billion people that are unaccounted for?  Well, I think some of those dwell in the forums here @ HubPages, no? LOL!

  31. Friendlyword profile image61
    Friendlywordposted 4 years ago

    APATHY = DEATH

    You have to speak up!

    “It's horrifying that people feel this way, but it's certainly not shocking or new. Are we a little refreshed that some Americans are at least owning the real source of their opposition to the president?”


    http://www.theroot.com/buzz/crazy-talk- … er-sticker

  32. Friendlyword profile image61
    Friendlywordposted 4 years ago

    You have to speak up. Protect young people from this insanity and hate!

    1. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      oh wow.. Jesus Christ is hateful now..

      something went very wrong in your brain if that's the conclusion you have come to....

      roll

  33. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    lotta other religions too. Probably is seven. The seventh billion used to be catholic choir boys.smile

  34. 0
    MrBouncebackposted 4 years ago

    I don't understand how people have their own "special knowledge" about something. How can someone get an idea from something or someone else, but have different meanings. A lot of these religions are not religions I call them strategies. I'm a Christian and why is that people getting killed for being a Christian?.....

    1. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Because Christianity is ambiguous, dubious nonsense.

      1. wilmiers77 profile image60
        wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You have not entertained the Word of God with an open heart. You have a predisposition of bias when it comes to the Word of God that makes you see only antichrist's view.

        1. 0
          AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          getitrite and others like myself certainly are entertained by the Word of God.  We laugh about its nonsense often.  I especially like the part in the bible about the talking mule.

          However, I don't understand how musing about the silliness of the bible is in any way related to open heart surgery.  You are correct that I have not been entertained by the word of god during open heart surgery.  Hopefully, neither the anesthesiologist nor the surgeon are hearing disembodied voices during my surgery, either.  More to the point, I hope I don't have open heart surgery to begin with.

          But, at least you are right about biases.  We are indeed biased against irrational nonsense peddled as truth.  Thanks for noticing.

        2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Those who don't believe don't necessarily have a closed heart.  Their heart just didn't hear what yours did.  I have read the Bible with an open heart, yet I bet my beliefs don't match yours in very many things.  I have also read other religious texts with an open heart and often find things within them that also speak to my heart. 

          Hearing/feeling/seeing something other than you doesn't make one under the sway of the anti-christ (a figure whom I don't happen to believe in btw) it just means our "heart" has led us elsewhere.

          And just a word of caution about statements like yours:  Christ cautioned us against judging another master's servant.  He also encouraged us to show humility and love unconditionally.  I'm not sure how you can do that while accusing those with different views as being agents of the anti-Christ.

          1. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Firstly, I didn't tag any hearer as an agent of Antichrist. There is no neutral grounds as most people think between the Lord and satan. You are attracted to the Lord or satan or denying God and Jesus places you on whose side.

            Most all religious text has more in common than not. After all, humans have the very same design, same desires and needs. Our stage in life is basicly the same, planet called Earth.

            Btw, if a person reads the word of God, and blanketly deny all, who in hell side do you think they are on? Junior God? I think you should rethink what I commented more.

            God has judged antichrist's servants already. I am just repeating.

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Amen

              &

              Well said

        3. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And you, my friend, see only anti-Flying Spaghetti Monster views.  Tell me, why don't you have an open heart when exposed to the word of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?  Why can't you rid yourself of this predisposed biased?  Huh?!

  35. 0
    MrBouncebackposted 4 years ago

    If the bible is what you say it is why when you are at your lowest point or luck is ran out you are looking for hope in Gods name? You cant say you havent, whether it slipped out or not, because everyone mentions God in a good way once in their life. Why are the ones who are in high positions are so foolish? If it wasnt for the fancy wording and expensive education you'll be just like me.

    1. 0
      AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      MrBounceback,

      I'm not sure if this was addressed to me, but it is a reasonable question that has a simple answer - but first, we must deal with a fallacy in your question.
      The bible only has to do with about 2 billion people out of 9 billion on the planet - a lot of people who call out to god mean Allah or Jains or Mother Earth.

      Second, the reason is actually quite simple - hope.  Hope is a childish emotion that a magical answer exists.  The reason we call out is strictly based on psychological neediness.  Calling out to a god in no way means there is a god, only that humans have a common need to quell fear with unreasonable hopes of the miraculous.

  36. 0
    MrBouncebackposted 4 years ago

    In other words your telling me you could make things happen on your own or "bully" your way through life and make your own rules so things wont come back to bite you in your behind? Because, personally im not understanding.

    1. 0
      AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      MrBounceback,

      No, I don't mean that at all.  I mean that there is a difference between how things really are and how we would hope they might be.  The difference is in chosing how one deals with life, whether we chose to base our worldview on what is real or whether we adopt the immature emotional-based wishful thinking that things can be as we want them to be.  It is a matter of how mature our emotions are, and, no, I do not mean that in an insulting way.  Some people lag behind in certain areas of emotional maturity, and that doesn't mean they are immature overall.  It simply means that certain emotional areas have been stymied and have not been allowed to grow.

      Everyone goes through life making his own rules - and for most of us our #1 rule is to obey the rules society has set down.  If we don't follow our rule, then we suffer consequences.  But again, that is the reality of nature.  There are actions and consequences for those actions, either positive or negative.  We fumble our way through our life, trying to have more positive than negative reactions to our actions.

      Very difficult human problems are not resolved by holding belief in magical answers.  Human problems can only be solved by humans.  It was not the bible but persistent people who saw moral wrong about slavery that ended that disgusting practice - against the principles of accepting slavery within the bible.

      Had we looked only to magical answers in the bible, slavery would still be practiced in the U.S. and elsewhere.

      1. 0
        MrBouncebackposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I respect a honest man and an honest answer. And yes, I definitely agree that we have to respect the rules society has set down. But, it is still a lot of stuff man made rules cannot answer. You say human problems can only be solved by human, I want you to elaborate on that more because if they crucified Jesus after all the miracle he performed, a person with little power could do what they want. We was going to overcome slavery anyway because the one thing they couldn't take from us was our mind and with our mind we became smarter and realized more things. Speaking on the presidential part, when a new president is in office they make new and different decisions. It is possible that what the last president have set could be forgotten, used as a cop out, or in favor of no change.

        1. 0
          AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hi, MrBounceback,

          Here is my thinking on your replies:


          Yes, there are.  These are known as intractable problems.  Questions of morality, death, afterlives, and the like.  Some of these problems cannot be answered: no human can possibly know - really know - what happens after death.  But what happens with humans is we want to hope that death is not the end, so we create a story - a narrative - that explains how we won't really die.  Belief in this story helps us deal with our fear of the unknown.

          But what is interesting is that mankind has always done this with difficult problems, i.e., we "found" a supernatural being who could "solve" the problem.  The interesting thing is that this supernatural being always had the attributes of the particular people who "found" him.  This "god" got angry, jealous, vengeful, just like the humans who "found" him, and when he showed himself he looked like a man, as well, talked like a man, and walked like a man - like the very men who discovered him.  Gee, what a handy coincidence - he speaks the same language we do.  God looks just like us.  God believes the same things we do.  Wow, are we lucky.


          Magic is not a method to solve problems.  It is a trick, an illusion.  Hope does not solve problems.  The only thing can solve human problems is the actions of humans - praying for starving kids in Ethiopia does not produce a single ounce of food; however, picking corn, putting it in bushel baskets, carrying it on ships across the sea, delivering it to starving kids does help resolve their hunger.

          Not all problems can be solved.  We never will know the answer to life after death.  So why assume anyone does know?



          Jesus was crucified for rebellion against Roman rule.  Whether he performed any miracles is not based on factual evidence but on stories - some would say myths.  As to slavery, the point is that the bible has no single word in it that says slavery is immoral and should not be tolerated.  The abolition of slavery did not come from religious thought but from human thought and secular actions.

          1. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Religious thought is human thought.

            Yes, the Son of Man was tempted by all that you say, but he overcame, and have done it for millions, millions, and millions over the years.

          2. 0
            MrBouncebackposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Exactly, Jesus was put to death for a man made rule. Before Jesus was born the word was to kill every young boy, but Mary fled town. If satin would of known that Jesus was coming he would of tried to stop it. For slavery, we wasn't getting any simpithy for believing in God. So, we had to use our survival methods to do what we have done. Then, ask God for forgiveness for what we have done and give God the praise because he allowed us to do that.

            1. 0
              AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              MrBounceback,

              I would expect you to have a better understanding of scripture.



              This myth is told only in the book of Matthew.  I say "myth" because there is no historical record anywhere of the massacre of children in and around Bethlehem at that time. 

              The book of Luke says Mary and Joseph waited 8 days, then later returned to Nazareth - nothing about a murderous order to kill children.

              So which is truth?  Matthew or Luke? 



              Think about what you are saying.  Humans acted on their own instincts to rid the world of slavery - god had no part in that decision.  Then we are supposed to praise god because he didn't do anything and ask forgiveness because he was too lazy to outlaw slavery himself?

              That's dumb.

              1. 0
                MrBouncebackposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I could go into scripture if I want. I am not a preacher, but i am giving you what i know without looking into the bible, but if you want to go scripture for scriptuer hear it is: The Gospel According to St Matthew says that King Herod ordered baby boys to be killed, for fear that one of them would grow up to usurp his throne. According to this Gospel, Jesus and his parents escaped to Egypt, returning only after Herod's death. because when Herod saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet.

                1. 0
                  AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I know.  But you didn't answer the question.  The gospel according to Luke gives an entirely different account of what happened after Jesus was born, and in Luke there is no mention of Herod ordering a massacre of children.

                  So which gospel account is right - Matthew or Luke?

                  There is also no record outside of the book of Matthew to support this claim.  The Roman historians are absolutely quiet on the subject.  In fact, without the one claim of this one book of the bible, a reasonable person reading about history would think this decree of Herod to eliminate children never really happened.

      2. wilmiers77 profile image60
        wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Sh**t, people causes the problemS. You have said absolutely "NOTHING" to help emotional crisis; love hurt, lost of love ones; we are not machines. The intangibles help our enjoyment in like much more than the tangibles. You merely said ineffect to kill your emotions. The is the same as the low-down-no-good-dirty-devils would say to lead one away from the love of God!!! Come off it!!!

        1. 0
          AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Wilmiers,

          If you cannot swim, stay out of the deep end of the pool.

          1. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Tangibles are in the shallow part of the pool; intangibles are in the deep, heading toward infinite. Keep letting me know how much you really know. I love it!

            I came out the womb swimming.

            1. 0
              AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You came out of the womb crying, and unless you are the small one in the picture, I'd say it's time you knocked it off.

              1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Really!! Dry behind your ears.

                My balls are returning to life.

              2. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It seems you aren't discussing nor debating any longer Winton.

                Perhaps your command to 'knock it off' is an indicator you are frustrated?

                I personally believe you have very little authority to speak on anyone swimming in the deep end. I don't believe you have ever stepped flipper in water above your waist...

                You tend to, as a matter of fact, stick to very old tactics which are regurgitated and vomited towards Christians and have also been used by people before you were born.

                I have read documentation of quotes that sound more like you than you sound like you, as every time I turn around you are parroting something else they have stated....

                Maybe reading your advice would help you establish which end of the 'pool' you in all reality are in.

      3. jonnycomelately profile image86
        jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It is well to remember that attitudes against the abolition of slavery persisted in the southern states long after laws come in banning it.  The people most against abolition were people who called themselves christian!  And they were very skilled in finding biblical texts to support their opinions.  Is this the case even today?

        1. wilmiers77 profile image60
          wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Any mean spirited person can find a scripture or two, and impose his over- exaggerated, selfish opinion, even satan who knows the bible better than all of us; but, never coming into the fullness of the knowledge of Christ Jesus. Satan can pervert the entire bible...steal,...imitate...

          Problem with you atheist is that you take what is good in a person for granted when in essence this is not reflected in the history of mankind. Fortunately, existing social machinery has pacified the beast with sufficient goods, and met other needs. I don't see innate, immutable good in any person at this time; there must be some persons continually upholding moral values that can not be touched by human hands or else!!!!

          We live in a fallen world (self evidenced), and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

          Faith in God has the capacity to sooth the beast's spirit.

          What was the people who fought against slavery standing on? They were standing on the Word of God. Contrary to what I have heard from you guy, Christians played the major role in stopping slavery. It's documented how Abe Lincoln stood on his Christian values when he made his final decision.

          You two fellows sound if you have never been the lone leader standing alone, but have only been part of a small popular group. AKA is still wet behind the ears. Jonnycomelately is a fish who live best in a sheltered environment.

          1. 0
            AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hi, Wilmiers,

            I'm tired of reading your gibberish and responding to your ridiculous claims of occult knowledge.  Could you please direct me to the closest rock?  I plan on painting Halleleujah, I believe! on its side and then setting the rock on my computer table and talking to it.  At least that way I won't have to type so much. 

            Thanks.

            1. wilmiers77 profile image60
              wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well, you're going to have your stone tablets soon. LOL!

              You know, getting a rock now is't a bad idea! LOLOL! I'm tired of typing also.

          2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            *facepalms*  There's a problem with your argument.  I'd point it out, but then I would be considered a tool for the anti-Christ.

            1. mischeviousme profile image61
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Dude should read a book... No wait, wouldn't want to spend the church's money on an education.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Actually, I don't think is stupidity or even lack of education... I think that when you hold a position so strongly that you won't acknowledge valid points from other positions you end up arguing things that make no sense.

                No side is ever completely wrong or completely right.  When you start thinking that your opinion is flawless, you become the definition of a zealot.  Then even YOUR valid points are ignored because you have poisoned the well.

                1. mischeviousme profile image61
                  mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Uneducated and stupid are 2 different ends of the spectrum... I've met some pretty educated idiots in my life and some geniuses that coulodn't read at all, basically, I never said stupid.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Remember your zen dear... I never said you called him stupid.  I also realize the difference between stupid and uneducated... which is why I made the distinction.

              2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hello children!

            2. Insane Mundane profile image60
              Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Facepalms are awesome; have you ever done a double facepalm 'image search' as they are even more funny?

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol lol lol

                Can we do a group facepalm Insane?

                Maybe we can make them more popular than they are. hmm

                Or maybe... mayyybe.. We could do a video of it! LOL

                Oh dear.. As if it makes the oppsite party 'incorrect' all of a sudden..

                Dramaaaaaaaaaaaa . . . tization. heh heh heh

                smile

          3. jonnycomelately profile image86
            jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Tell me about this "satan."  Is it some grotesque creature living in a Harry Potter type grotto, ready to pounce on any one of us who strays too close?

            Or is it a part you/me/each one of us, living within the human brain where greed and doubt comes from?

            1. OutWest profile image60
              OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Often referred to as the demons inside us.  You know your own personal demons.  Not a horned guy in the fires of hell.

            2. wilmiers77 profile image60
              wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Fair enough. The spirit of satan lives in peoples minds. There is constant spiritual warfare within our minds. Quoting Steven King, "demons and monsters are real; they live inside of us." The world is inundated with persons who satan has the upper hand in this spiritual warfare, and causes them to commit atrocities. Selfishness, self centered, greed, jealousy, murderous, hatefulness and envy are some of the characteristics of satan.

              Good weather thinking is best and highly desired, but one must be prepared for storms in one's life. The steel from a strong faith in God is necessary. The individual is very fragile as compared to the adversities that can present themselves in the world.

              Faith in God can cease the storm, and lower the tides in spiritual war.

              1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ok, you use the term "the spirit of satan."  Is satan simply that?  No substance outside of the human mind?  Just a formless spirit, without a body that we can describe?

                1. Insane Mundane profile image60
                  Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  ...Such terms often equal the philosophy of life, and you know this...

                2. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Satan is an angel created by God which by personal choice of 'free will' (which if God MADE Him be good he wouldn't have) got jealous and tried to take what was God's.

                  He is still an angel, but one with evil intentions and evil is no different than destruction just like the mass murderer who finally turns the gun on himself. He is good for nothing but to destroy the good of others and himself ultimately for his short term pleasure. We call these kind demons which are the fallen angels who all do these destructive and selfish things. They are still angels but they are by personal choice perverted in their thoughts and every action. They are vile and hateful - just like a mass murderer who hates everyone so tries to take them all with him including innocent children..

                  If you continue denying Christ Jesus you won't need a second hand description. God loves you and every living person, and wants to help. Christ will be taking His people very, very soon. His return is imminent.

                  Very imminent.

                  1. paradigmsearch profile image91
                    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Paradigmsearch peeks out the window...

                  2. jonnycomelately profile image86
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So, is this "angel" just a metaphor?  A figure of speech?  Are you using it to describe something about yourself which you would like us to know about, Vector?

                    It seems that you might have some very nasty demons hanging on inside of you, and you are looking in a mirror. 



                    I can't wait for the end of 2012, apparently some wonderful fireworks are due to happen in December.  Let's you and me take a big bag of corn chips down there and watch.  We might even be invited up on stage!

                    smile

                  3. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Most Christians erroneously believe that the devil is a fallen angel created by God because of Genesis which is pagan based.

                    I suspect you personally haven't born the brunt of Satan's wrath and evil else you would not just call him a fallen angel.  Satan and God have always existed none being the creation of the other.  No evil can exist in heaven thus they could not have been a rebellion.  God would not create an imperfect being with the capacity to do evil. A best friend of God would never feel jealous of Him.  Think of those who love God now.  Are they jealous of His power?

                    For argument's sake let's say he was a fallen angel and was jealous.  We have all been jealous some time in our lives and have had evil intentions.  However, that doesn't mean we could ever be like Satan.  How can the best friend of God turn into a hideous being that demands human sacrifices, for example. 

                    Saying Satan is a fallen angel is diminishing his power and thus diminishing Jesus' conquering of evil.  What's the big deal overcoming a jealous being? Satan is extremely powerful and without Jesus he'd be on par with God.

  37. jonnycomelately profile image86
    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago

    Typical reply.   When are you going to realise that much of the biblical writings are metaphor.  They are trying to describe the indescribable When you take so much of it literally, you will often miss the point and you come out with absolute non-sense.  This is why so many people laugh at you.  That must be a very lonely place for you.  And please, don't come out now with more of the glib christian messages.  I have heard them all before and they DO NOT RING TRUE!

    1. 0
      MrBouncebackposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If the biblical writings are metaphors can you please show me that you could do the things they talked about in the bible or in any belief of your sort? In fact, can you perform something that will be talked about 400 years from now? They just did a Red bull ad with Jesus walking on water, people believe that in making money, but not to save their own life's. That is crazy!!!!

    2. wilmiers77 profile image60
      wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      People laughted at Jesus on the cross. Funny, no one knows any of those people; they appeared for second of cosmic time and than NOTHING.

      "It doesn't ring true in your ears?". Fellow, I believe you! Wow!

      1. jonnycomelately profile image86
        jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Go back to school, wilmiers77, learn to think and reason for yourself.  Without a bible in front of you.

        1. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Think I'll listen to God instead of listen to you.

          I know His insight and teachings are far superior, considering He also made you.

          I believe wilmiers feels the same.

          Just as businesses don't run without management, neither does the universe or life.

          I believe your 'reasoning' is severely, severely flawed.

  38. Friendlyword profile image61
    Friendlywordposted 4 years ago

    Maybe, Ateist are just young souls.  Maybe, they just haven't lived long enough to have the wisdom old souls have.

  39. jonnycomelately profile image86
    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago

    Sir, with respect, AKA Winston has given some good explanations about written in the bible, he has made a much better job of it than I can.

    Concerning Metaphors..... There is a lot that goes on inside of us, like emotions, feelings, desires, and wanting to explain something which lifts or downs our spirit, which we find it difficult to describe in words. 

    For example, if I saw something really, really beautiful in the landscape, and wanted to describe to you my feelings, I might say: "Wow, it was so beautiful, so peaceful, my heart flew like a bird!"   You would immediately get my meaning, because that is probably how you might feel, too.

    It's a Metaphor.  You know that neither I, nor my heart!, can fly, certainly not like a bird.  But the description is sufficient to give my explanation of what I am experiencing.

    Many stories of Jesus amount to just this sort of thing.  When he said, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven," he was not talking literally.  I am sure you understand this.  He was not saying NO rich man can get into the Kingdom of Heaven.  Just that a rich man (or woman, of course in these modern days of emancipation) will be too focused on increasing and protecting his wealth. He/she will not have time or energy to attend to the more difficult needs of his/her neighbour.  The Kingdom of Heaven is right now, if you are prepared to meditate on your inner desires and wants, then come out with much more knowledge of your self and how you fit into the world.  A rich person CAN do this, if the business of money, wealth and power are put aside even just for a short time.  Become aware of the God within.  It is within your grasp.  Within your ability.  Within your life.  Here and now.

    1. 0
      MrBouncebackposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It is easier for a camel ...To denote that a thing was impossible or exceedingly difficult. Camels are capable of carrying heavy burdens, will travel sometimes faster than the fleetest horse, and are provided with a stomach which they fill with water, by means of which I they can live four or five days without drink. This rather means one who loves his riches and makes an idol of them, or one who supremely desires to be rich.  Mark 10:24 "How hard is it for them that trust in riches." While a man has this feeling - relying on his wealth alone - it is literally impossible that he should be a Christian; for religion is a love of God rather than the world. That they often produce luxury, dissipation, and vice. That it is difficult to obtain wealth without sin, without avarice, without covetousness, fraud, and oppression, 1 Timothy 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 6:17; James 5:1-5; Luke 12:16-21; Luke 16:19-31.

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Very, VERY well said.

    2. wilmiers77 profile image60
      wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you whole hearted concerning inner perspective. But, no God and Jesus would leave me without power to overcome adversities. If one examines himself, usually the results are one of conformity to outside pressures.

      Now, with fast communications and the lost of privacy, computers that store an immense amount of data which can quickly be retrieved and distributed, I can not afford all the adjustments of feelings viewing inner perspectives for a harmonious outlook on the world. I have been exposed to some public scrutiny, to much for me not to need Jesus, my Savior. I talk with God, not what's hot on my mind at the time. God always gives me an answer that is in my best interest. The others causes me stress that only God can resolve.

      I sorry jonnycomelately; things are just not that simple with me; maybe others. Faith in God is my life. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for."

      "Forgive them for they know what they do."

      I know that you mean well for me, and I liked you as soon as I saw your picture; you appear to be a humble and wise man.

      1. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This is the most honest thing that you have stated since coming to the forums.  Now it is clear that you are not capable of defeating your psychosis.  Of course you are going to see it differently, as you are no longer capable of discerning reality.

        In my opinion, I think your degree of the God delusion warrants treatment.
        No offense.
        Peace

        1. Insane Mundane profile image60
          Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Remember now, that particular statement is coming from a psychotic, delusional hypnotic...

          1. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Such stellar intellect as this should be commended.  By making such a simple statement, you have put a new spin on the childish cliché of "I know you are but what am I"
              Absolutely brilliant!!  Not everyone can do this.

            If I could just touch the hem of your garment, maybe I could abdicate my my mind as well, and start hating this @$#%%#@ science too.

            That evil science just sucks. lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol Doesn"t it? lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

            1. Philanthropy2012 profile image90
              Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              [+1]

            2. Insane Mundane profile image60
              Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Your numerous emoticans dictate such delusions of laughter and thoughts, or the lack thereof...  lol

            3. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Mocking Christ is hateful and sickens me personally.

              I see what the military taught you, and I know others from the military who will verify it.

              We also see that you have mastered the copy and paste functions.

              A more profitable use might serve you better and also wouldn't look like you made a coloring book out of your post.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Actually, I think he's just mocking you.

                So no harm no foul.

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Is that so. Well jump in the boat with him there superwoman.

                  I'd love to hear your application of the quote you used there to the current situation.

                  This should be breathtaking...

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually it wasn't you, but Insane Mundane... still it is the same concept.

                    He can't mock Christ because he doesn't believe in him.  He can mock the veracity of belief in an idea that to him seems absolutely nuts.

                    And he knows someone like you is going to go all buggy on him because they can't tell the difference.  He wins when he gets you go loopy on him  because it proves that you are zealotous in your beliefs.  Irrational, illogical, and prone to behavior that can be likened to the bloody foaming at the mouth of the berserkers of legend.

                    Plus he likes messing with you... mainly because your response is so predictable that it is comical.  Think Daffy Duck temper-tantrum.

                    And please, if you are going to go sarcastic on me do it with a bit more finesse than your average 8 year old playground confrontation.  I'm not mocking you after all, he is.  To me you are doing quite a good enough job mocking yourself... no need for me to jump in.

                2. Insane Mundane profile image60
                  Insane Mundaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yeah, and you're a mock-heroic being that flanks the forum dwellers with all-knowing poppycock?  LOL!

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    OooooH!  You pushed a button there Melissa! lol

              2. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

                BTW, I'll mock your silly God any time I feel like it.  It's not my fault that you see value in nonsense.

                1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                  wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "Mocking God's Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin."

                  1. 0
                    jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Who need your forgiveness?
                    All spirits can go to hell as far as I'm concerned!Non existing God's immaterial spirits. Is this, the divine comedy?