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What would you do?

  1. profile image0
    JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago

    For those who don't believe in God, I'd like you to consider a hypothetical situation. I hope you can do so sincerely, as I would rather have a discussion than accusations.

    Imagine you are driving down the road, and you hear a voice/feeling tell you to pull over. You do so, and within a minute, a semi comes around the corner in your lane, right where you would have been. To make it even better, you're in a mountain pass, so there would have been absolutely no way to avoid hitting the semi.

    Would you consider that divine intervention, coincidence, or a psychic experience? If this happened to you relatively frequently(a voice/feeling keeping you from danger) would it hold more weight?

    1. A Troubled Man profile image62
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's what's called "guesswork" - focusing on an event in which something positive occurs while so many other similar events turned out null.

      1. profile image0
        JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        See, you're not taking it seriously troubled. I've never had an impression like that that didn't result in a positive outcome. Are you saying that you tend to respond to a voice with no outcome?

        1. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Actually, I did, you didn't.



          That is entirely false and you know it.

          1. profile image0
            JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, it's not.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol A blatant disregard for honesty is showing in your posts.

              1. profile image0
                JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                So you are claiming to know everything that I have experienced in my life?

                I'm talking about a very specific type of event, and it has always ended with a positive outcome. How can you claim to know otherwise?

                If you really know so much about me and what happens in my life, can you tell me what I had for dinner last night?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image62
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I never said that, did I? But, it's obvious when someone is trying to tell us they are "special" because they hear voices in their head.



                  Because, it's as obvious you're lying as the day is long.



                  No, but it's blatantly obvious you're being dishonest.

                  1. profile image0
                    JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That's not the point of the thread, and I'm not trying to toot my own horn. I didn't say 'I'm awesome because...', I said I consider myself lucky to have been able to help other people.

                    You did claim to know what I haven't experienced. You said I was lying, which means you claim to know everything that I have and haven't experienced.

                    See, again, you claim knowledge of what has and hasn't happened to me. How do you know?

                    Well, tough luck, because I'm telling the truth.

            2. profile image0
              Deborah Sextonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              **************

              I've had experiences like this.

              Don't let those who are dead to life hurt you with their brutal words.

              They seem to have nothing, that's why they act the way they do.

      2. profile image0
        JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What if you had 20 such life-saving events?

        100?

        1. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What if the sky was green or purple?

          So many "What ifs" lol

          1. profile image0
            JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And you claim to be taking it seriously?

            If I had to count, I'd be near 100 of those types of events in my life. And not all of them had to do with my own safety either. I'm glad that I've been able to be directed to help other people at difficult times.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Of course, only a delusional, self-absorbed fool would believe your nonsense.



              lol Yes, you're "special" lol

              1. profile image0
                JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                So, you have either lied, or called yourself a self-absorbed fool. You said you took it seriously earlier, so you either lied or are a fool.

                What's the point of you posting in this thread?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image62
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If that's your fallacious argument, so be it.



                  What's the point of trying to impress on us that you believe you're "special"?

                  1. profile image0
                    JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm just trying to have an honest discussion with atheists. You are the one who insists on ridiculing. Just leave.

    2. Greek One profile image78
      Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I believe in God, but if that happened to me I would ask my family doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist who could properly diagnose my mental illness

      1. profile image0
        JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So even with your belief in God, you wouldn't be able to believe God intervened?

        1. Greek One profile image78
          Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          its not my faith in God's ability that is the issue...

          it is the HUGE assumption that the 'voices/feeling' are due to divine intervention that I have a problem with

          1. profile image0
            JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            But, if that happened, you wouldn't be able to consider that it was intervention?

            I'm not saying we have to assume anything, just what effect certain circumstances would have on you.

            1. Greek One profile image78
              Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              divine intervention would not be my first guess

              1. profile image0
                JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                If it happened to you, say, a dozen times, would you still think it was likely a psychological issue?

                1. Greek One profile image78
                  Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  if i believed it happened to me that often, then i would be even MORE convinced it was a psychological issue.

                  1. profile image0
                    JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    How could you be convinced that a psychological issue was predicting the future?

                    Another example... you here a voice/feeling tell you a friend is in trouble. You head to that friend's house, and find them on the floor, having overdosed on medication.

            2. getitrite profile image79
              getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              But the effect it seems to be having on you is the urge to make up your own explanations, based upon a post hypnotic suggestion.  Thereby you would have to be assuming...or what are you calling it?

              I have had many near misses that could have resulted in death.  Just thinking about some of them can makes me cringe.  I once looked up just in time to avert a head-on collision.  I don't know why I was compelled to look up at that moment.  And I assume nothing...until concrete further evidence proves anything conclusive.

  2. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    Even once, I'd consider it proof enough for me that something outside of this plane of existence intervened on my behalf. That is assuming that I heard a voice in my head  other than my own thoughts, that knew something I could not have known.

    1. profile image0
      JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks Emile. I honestly don't know what I would think in that kind of a situation, if I hadn't grown up already believing.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image62
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Really? So a single coincidental incidence would have you jump to that conclusion?

      1. profile image0
        JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Don't try and start truly discussing now Troubled, you were doing such a good job of trolling.

        What if there were 100 'coincidental' occurrences?

        1. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What if the sky was purple?

          So many "what ifs" lol

          1. profile image0
            JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That 'what if' has happened to me.

            You attack Emile for discussing, ridiculing her for saying she would believe if it happened once(a 'what if' question), but then you can't acknowledge a 'what if' question that your argument doesn't hold up against.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              And, did you find that the sky was purple? lol

              1. profile image0
                JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Only the clouds with a great sunset.

      2. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I completely agree with Greek One. I wouldn't attribute it to a god.  But, I'm sorry. I don't doubt my sanity. If a voice chirped up and said 'Pull over' moments before I would have been squished by a tractor trailer, and I was alone in the car; I'd be stumped for an alternative solution.

        Edit: if it makes you feel better, if a voice did nothing but identify itself as God, I'd head to the hospital for a cat scan.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It's when those voices chirp up and nothing happens that makes the single event look exactly like 'guesswork' as opposed to leaving one feeling stumped.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I don't hear voices. Does that make me odd?

            1. Greek One profile image78
              Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              no.. that's not it tongue

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                lol

            2. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It could leave you squished by a tractor trailer, if that's any consolation.

  3. Disappearinghead profile image86
    Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago

    I once placed the business end of a stethoscope against my forehead and the voices in my head came through loud and clear. smile

  4. littlethespians profile image64
    littlethespiansposted 5 years ago

    I obviously amoung the few, if placed in that exact cicurmstance....would believe it was divine intervention.

    I do believe in God.

    I have never 'heard' voices in my head before.

    And the ONE voice that I do hear commands me or urges me to PULL OVER NOW, just a tractor trailer would have smashed me like a bug, I would have jumped out of the car, and kissed the ground and sang God's praises. Sometimes he does have to speak to be heard.

    God spoke ALL the time in the bible, even in dreams. I would not question my sanity one bit. I would value my life 100% % more that God chose ME to save, he still saw purpose and value in me.

    1. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Do you reckon God's voice could speak to the poor starving dying children, and just point them to some morsels of food?  Why is this baffling belief so inconsistent? Or does God just find no value in these pitiful third world children?

      1. littlethespians profile image64
        littlethespiansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I can't explain third world starving children. Or children dying of cancer, or abuse and neglect, war and poverty. I am not saying I am BETTER than anyone else because of MY miracle.  I agree with you, it seems inconsistent.  But everything is part of His plan. And His plan for me AT that particular time was to save me. Maybe I was still needed to hear a child tell me that they were being hurt at home, then I'd be run over by a bus.

        1. littlethespians profile image64
          littlethespiansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Whoops. That was supposed to say, NOT better than anyone else......changes the meaning of the post entirely. Ick.

          1. littlethespians profile image64
            littlethespiansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Disregard that. Out.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image62
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol Others certainly would.

  5. littlethespians profile image64
    littlethespiansposted 5 years ago

    I  wish we could edit.

    circumstance.

    AS a tractor trailer.

  6. littlethespians profile image64
    littlethespiansposted 5 years ago

    I just have faith.  In this hypothetical situation,if I'd ignored "the Voice" and kept driving and been killed.....I wouldn't be alive to tell anyone I was warned and ignored.

    Then again, if I abided, and moved over, and lived, I'd be called crazy for hearing voices in my head. And then be criticized for calling it anything other than being lucky.

    Having secure faith allows me to believe fully that was divine intervention. I too look back on times in my life when I was not as faithful, and see how God's hand was there protecting me. Or how events unfolded in such an unbelievable way no other explanation could account for it except it being a "God Thing".

    I think it makes God sad how many times he HAS protected his children, and then they want PROOF, EVIDENCE, DOCUMENTATION that it was him. I mean, a FREAKING VOICE tells me to pull over right before I would have been smushed dead? God has a plan for everything and it is not our place to question, but just have FAITH. Faith is what I call it.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image62
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Seems more like delusion.

      Of course, none of what you say about your faith explains every single person who was killed in an accident, nor does is show any respect to them whatsoever.

      No, you are not special and no, gods do not protect you or anyone else.

      1. littlethespians profile image64
        littlethespiansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        God. Singular.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol So, you conveniently ignore the fact there have been thousands of gods throughout history in which people believed protected them. How very dishonest of you.

    2. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      In other words having faith allows you to be delusional, without even looking at ANY other more rational possibilities?



      Could it be that you have already ignored any other possibilities even exist, because your delusion has prompted you to?  Hence, creating a false default.



      Very irrational, unscientific, whimsical, naive and extremely narrow worldview .



      So sayeth the sheep.

      1. littlethespians profile image64
        littlethespiansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I just don't get how non-believers think we are 'delusional'! I mean, I carry on a normal life, do normal things, do not throw my Christianity in anyones face, I am a sinner, Ilove and care for my pets, but mention I am faithful, and I am a raging mad, delusional maniac.

        One day one group will be proved wrong. Unfortunetly we can't come back and say, "I told you so".

        1. littlethespians profile image64
          littlethespiansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You all seriously sound like you would advocate for me to take a pill to treat this 'delusion',

        2. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You've been indoctrinated to believe in a religion. That is the reason why you carry on a normal life, except when it comes to your beliefs, which are seen as entirely delusional.

          Break the cycle of indoctrination and that delusion shall pass. smile

          1. profile image0
            JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You assume everyone has been indoctrinated... what about people who don't grow up in any religion, and have these experiences? Where is the indoctrination?

            1. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Not everyone, but certainly the vast majority are indoctrinated. Some are just insane.

  7. secularist10 profile image89
    secularist10posted 5 years ago

    "Would you consider that divine intervention, coincidence, or a psychic experience?"

    Coincidence. Coincidences happen constantly, if we care to notice. A psychic phenomenon is also possible, but far, far less likely than coincidence. Nevertheless, the psychic or 6th sense phenomenon is still far, far more likely than a supernatural force. And even a general supernatural force is far, far more likely than God specifically.

    "If this happened to you relatively frequently(a voice/feeling keeping you from danger) would it hold more weight?"

    If it happened frequently enough, I would probably go with the psychic explanation. That is still a naturalistic explanation, and does not require any supernatural whatsoever.

    But again, this kind of thing does happen extremely often. There are words and thoughts constantly passing through our brains silently. Thus, simply by the law of large numbers, such an intersection of thought and event is bound to happen sooner or later. It's just that normally we don't notice it, or we notice it only in the kind of jarring, life-changing circumstance you describe. Such a jarring experience will induce selective memory, it may highlight specific memories that otherwise we would not have noticed, or we may even invent memories.

    Sorry to take the winds of wonder and mystery out of your sails, but it is what it is. Just psychology, neuroscience and probability.

    1. profile image0
      JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The problem with the probability argument, is that there would have to be a substantial number of similar events where nothing happened.

      I'm sorry, but I've never 'pulled over the car' because of a voice/feeling and not had something happen. Yeah, I might have had thoughts of pulling the car over at times, and not done it, but those were clearly my own thoughts.

      What I am talking about is something that doesn't fit the natural thought process.

      It's interesting that you would place psychic experience as more likely than God. Thanks for sharing secularist

      1. secularist10 profile image89
        secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That was your choice to not move the car. The "voice" wasn't loud enough or whatever.

        In any case, we are still very ignorant on the human brain and how it works, and it is not strictly impossible for there to be "extra sensory perception" of some kind. However, the main problem with the concept of God (and to a lesser degree the supernatural generally) is the inherent logical flaws.

        I will give you another explanation to chew on that is much more likely than God: aliens. Perhaps there are more intelligent life forms from beyond this world that are screwing with the person's brain. That too is a naturalistic explanation, requiring no alternate realities, planes of existence, angels, gods or demons.

        1. littlethespians profile image64
          littlethespiansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          eeks. i believe that there are other forms of life out and about, and have even seen footage I can't explain away, but to believe they are sending messages to my brain is farfetched for me.

          1. secularist10 profile image89
            secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sure, but not as far fetched as saying that a God is sending messages to your brain.

            1. littlethespians profile image64
              littlethespiansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I just disagree, based upon my many examples above.  Could it be intuition,sure, could it be a gut feeling, absolutly.  But the poster specifically added a voice instructucted me to move over. 




              my belief in God leads me to assume yes that he interviened.

              1. secularist10 profile image89
                secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You are free to disagree, but the facts are facts. People hear strange voices all the time, normally they are temporary hallucinations, which is actually more common than you might think depending on the person's health, fatigue, foreign chemicals in their body (such as drugs, alcohol, medications, etc).

                If you are reading this silently to yourself without speaking it out loud, then you are currently hearing a voice in your head. Our internal dialogue and thoughts are voices in our head. As I already said, a jarring experience of the type in the OP will call up that kind of "voice" and create a very strong memory.

                Your belief in God leads you to assume he intervened; if you believed in aliens, then that would lead you to assume aliens intervened. Seems arbitrary.

                It's more reasonable to say that aliens are sending messages to your brain than it is to say God is sending messages to your brain.

                1. Chris Neal profile image81
                  Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Why? We have more evidence for God than aliens.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image62
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That is entirely false. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for any gods.

                    However, scientists have found star systems with planets that are very good candidates for supporting life. That is at the very least, a shred of evidence, if nothing else.

                  2. secularist10 profile image89
                    secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    In addition to what A Troubled Man said, the existence of God violates logic in a number of ways, and the existence of aliens does not.

      2. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It's just plain common sense, based upon science.  But since you base your perception on your indoctrination, you have no need for science or common sense, in this matter.

        1. profile image0
          JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Based on science?

          Show me what scientific studies show that psychic abilities exist.

          Nor do I rely on 'common sense'. There is nothing solid about common sense.

          Common sense wouldn't have you think that solid granite is actually made up of more 'empty space' than matter. Common sense wouldn't say that a clock flying around the world will run faster than a clock on the ground(being perfectly similar clocks). Common sense isn't based on fact, it is based on perceptions.

      3. A Troubled Man profile image62
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        There are, every single day, every single moment in which nothing happens.



        They are ALL your own thoughts. Some are hits, many are misses.

        1. profile image0
          JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There you go again, you know what's going on inside my head, all day, every day.

          I can tell you very clearly, that these were not my own thoughts. I know what my thoughts sound and feel like, just like I know what my voice sounds like. But, surely you know better.

          You see, I've never had one of those moments where nothing happened. So you are saying, I just HAPPEN to be reacting to my own thoughts, and each time those thoughts just HAPPEN to be predicting the future, and it just HAPPENS that I've never responded to one of those thoughts without something HAPPENING.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image62
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You may want to seek professional help for what's going on inside your head.



            lol Sure. Whatever. It's called hit and miss based on probabilities. But, I know you don't want to understand that because you believe you're special.

      4. secularist10 profile image89
        secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        BTW, here is another plot twist to consider (not sure if someone already made this point):

        Suppose you have 100 people who hear a voice in their head. The voice says "I am trying to protect you..." and then it says one of two things. To 50 people, the 2nd statement is "pull over" and to the other 50, the statement is "keep driving."

        Now, the 50 who received the "pull over" command are saved, and the 50 who received the "keep driving" command are killed.

        Will we ever hear of the voice in the 50 that were killed? No, because they are dead. We won't ever know what they heard in their head right before they died. But nevertheless, the voice was trying to protect them all.

        This is something known as "survivor bias," because the survivors tell a skewed story, and we do not get the whole picture. The objective fact is that the chances of being saved by that voice are 50/50. But because of the survivor bias, we will assume that the voice was 100% accurate, a perfect score. The dead don't talk, and we only hear from the survivors.

  8. littlethespians profile image64
    littlethespiansposted 5 years ago

    I understand we are disagreeing, but bringing aliens into it, makes me add two more componets to your explanations, that I already have with my Lord.

    1. They are here.
    2. They are friendly enough to try to save my life

    I know God is here
    I know he would not want to see harm befall me if not part of his plan.

    1. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      This is a blatant delusional statement, supported by nothing but your stubborn attachment to an absurd primitive dogma.  Where is your proof?




      You don't know anything of the sort.  You are just regurgitating post hypnotic suggestions, based upon a ridiculous premise...and whimsical wishful thinking.

  9. tosocialsuccess profile image61
    tosocialsuccessposted 5 years ago

    I think if that happened to me I would feel extremely lucky because that is exactly what I am. If you pay attention to your inner voice sometimes it constantly blurbs out stuff that seems like the message from the universe, but once you follow through with it you find out that it all exists in your mind. Once in a while my inner voice matched what was happening so I became excited, only to realize the chance of me getting the future right was relatively small.

 
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