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Why God Created Atheists?

  1. jainismus profile image78
    jainismusposted 4 years ago

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6253972_f248.jpg
    Why God created atheists? Isn't it  his invitation to self destruction?

    1. skyfire profile image74
      skyfireposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God created man as his image. God looks like atheist so.....   tongue

      1. 61
        atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    2. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      to burn atheist in hell...how would god have fun unless there are people whom he can burn in hell?...

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        atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        hehehehhehehehehhehehehehehehehe

      2. 61
        Whittle516posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This isn't "fun" for God...he does not want to send his most prized posessions and creations to hell.  If you choose to ignore him in life then you don't have a relationship with him and he no longer owns your soul- the devil does and he can do with it what he wishes. Aka burn

        1. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, that's right, blame eternal torment on the devil!  By the way, who created the devil and tempted HIM?  Duh!  lol

          Oh boy, another anonymous christian troll who is so saved but scared to use it's real name when vouching for its god.  what else is new?  lol 


                                                              http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

          1. 61
            Whittle516posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Why are you so angry?

            1. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You see, you are already judging me.  This is what many christian's do right at the very start of their stint on the religious forums.  Isn't there something in your rule book about this?

              I promise I'm not angry at all.  Perhaps you are not aware of it, but people of your religion, cult, or whatever you call it, arrive on these forums quite frequently.  Most begin as you have.  They all are going to prove Jesus is real.  So far, none have succeeded.  Give your opinion, but state it as such. 

              Welcome to HubPages.  Write a hub.


                                              http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

              1. 61
                Kammerichwposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You are judging just as much though...I am only stating the obvious due to how rude that comment was. If you did not intend it to be rude then that's fine. Also, I am not trying to prove Jesus is real just trying to help anyone who doesn't have him in their life.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't claim to be a member of a belief which commands one not to judge either.  That would be you.  I'm sorry you cannot see the difference.  Don't hold me to your beliefs as I certainly cannot hold you to mine.

                                     http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

          2. 61
            Whittle516posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Btw I am not perfect by any means just stating my opinion and don't appreciate the lack of respect. Besides the fact I do not putmy name out on the Internet because I don't feel comfortable. Have a convo face to face with me and Ill proclaim... Again not trying to cause argument here at all just stating my opinion.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes but, doesn't Jesus watch over you?  When you spread the good word aren't you supposed to do it proudly, without fear of being scorned or ridiculed? 

              "Doest thou walketh the walk, as well as talketh the talk?"  yikes


                                                      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

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                Kammerichwposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'd rather not get raped. In today's society you just cannot do some things. Idc what you believe dude I was just stating my opinion/ trying to help u see the light...have a good one

                1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  A good reason to only preach behind the scenes.  lol  When you post with such anonymity you could be a rapist yourself and no one would be the wiser.  Therefore, your words are merely empty rhetoric from an unidentifed person of no known reputation.  Just sayin'.  roll

                                                    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

          3. kathy little wolf profile image60
            kathy little wolfposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            It was Satan that tempted Christ, not the other way around. Lets not forget, Satan "was" an angel, but he fell from grace when his greed and lust for power took him over. Two 'desires' he has until this very day. He himself wanted to become the all powerful God...and when he could not, he made it his mission to torture the children of the one true God and "tempt" them into sinning against Christ ever since. Using greed, money, and any other low down tool available to him. Christ never tempted the evil one...The bible is quiet clear on this  for those that choose to read and learn.

            1. jonnycomelately profile image85
              jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              "Satan" and "Christ" and "Salvation" and "Forgiveness" are all metaphors for what goes on in your mind, kathy.   As such, they are individual to yourself.   You and I will never know their exact meaning to any other individual.

              In other words, deal with your own stuff, yourself, and simply warm to others doing the same.   This is where the "unconditional love" comes in.

            2. JMcFarland profile image90
              JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I've read the bible.  Funny enough, the story of "satan's fall" isn't in it.  It's jewish mysticism.  Nevermind the fact that the jews don't believe in a "devil" the same way that christians do.  In the old testament, "satan" is not the enemy of god - he's the adversary.  Adversary is NOT the same thing as an enemy.  The jews also didn't believe in a hell - or a heaven.  those were invented when jesus showed up.

        2. tim30044 profile image60
          tim30044posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          If I remember correctly, it is God who makes the final decision on who goes to heaven or hell. It seems to me that if he truely wants to be believed in, he should show up and make himself known. Furthermore, his book (Bible) should be written by him and not a bunch of imperfect people.

          If there is a god, I think there are some serious errors in his philosophies.

          1. JMcFarland profile image90
            JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Tim, I fervently agree with you.  If there is a god, and he is inherently wise to the point of being omniscient, you'd think he'd be a little bit smarter.  What kind of intelligent being would create something BEFORE you created it's food?  Who would rationally set up a system by which their "enemy" wins by default?

            if the biblical model is true, then
            1) god created human beings
            2) god damned human beings
            3) god created hell specifically for his enemy - you know the enemy that wanders into heaven on a whim and bets god about torturing and plaguing one of his most faithful subjects. 
            4) god damns human beings to the hell he created for satan.

            To go to hell, all a human being has to do is NOT believe.  It's the default position.  No one is "born" christian.  You have to be taught.  In order to be "saved" you have to actively believe in this supreme being, worship him and follow his laws.  The devil wins by default and if a human being maintains the default position, they are punished eternally for finite crimes.  while many religions have a "hell", only the christian one is eternal for everyone who refuses to believe.  That concept is immoral to an extreme.  The bible says that god is merciful and he wants everyone to be saved, but he is unwilling or unable to simply prove that he exists.  That doesn't seem very wise to me.

            1. tim30044 profile image60
              tim30044posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks… I assume that in #3, you are referring to Job. If so, I have comments to make on that one someday. Perhaps a hub… I am not sure that I would want to be affiliated with a god whose allows all those terrible things to happen to his most faithful person, on a bet with his enemy.

              If I was god, and created the devil, I believe I would just snuff him out and be done with it. We are supposed to make the choice to love god on our own. Yet, he makes it damn near impossible to do it. The Bible even says we are supposed to fear him. Furthermore, he is so self-centered that he will put us in hell if we do not believe his son is our messiah. How the hell (no pun intended) am I supposed to love that.

              I guess we will find out for sure when the world ends in a few days…

              1. JMcFarland profile image90
                JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                The story of Job is horrific to say the least.  How anyone can read the bible as literal truth and not find moral objections with god's "i dare you" approach to inflicting horrible suffering on someone he claims to LOVE only to prove a point is insane to me.

                If I was a god and i knew everything - including what would happen BEFORE it happened, I wouldn't have created the devil at all.  Nevermind the fact that the devil in the old testament is VASTLY different than the devil in the new - although god is vastly different too, and he supposedly doesn't change.  The bottom line is that god needs the devil.  Without him, his "creation" would have no need for him.  The god of the bible is an egotistical, maniacle totalitarian mob-boss.  It's like saying that a member of the mafia went to your business and said that they'd shoot you if you didn't pay them a certain sum of money every month, then accuse you of committing suicide if you choose not to comply.  The god of the bible is not worthy of worship or adoration, and I dare say that if I find out after my death (or after the world ends in a couple weeks) that god is actually real, I would STILL refuse to worship him.  heaven sounds rather dull, anyway and I'm not much of a singer.

              2. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Every good story needs a hero and an enemy. We are supposed to be given something to fight against. People rally together when they have a common enemy.

                The bible was written with this intent.

                1. Maleficus Luminos profile image60
                  Maleficus Luminosposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  If anything it is us who must rally against the tyranny, oppressive rule, and torture of God.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    And just how are we torturing God?

            2. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
              HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I would like to offer my alternate perspective here which I feel addresses this pretty well. It’s apparent that human behavior is a major theme throughout the bible, starting with Adam/Eve forward. Everything in existence, according to the creation account, animate or inanimate, behaves according to God’s will.

              The way I see it, if the natural world is God’s creation and it’s behaving according to His will, then studying nature offers insight into how He works. The best analogy I can think of to compare how I see the whole behavior aspect of the bible is by comparing to how multi-celled organisms work. In this analogy God is like the body’s DNA, the authority as far as having the ‘knowledge’, or experience, to ‘know’ how everything in the body must behave to function properly. Existence, or the universe, is the body. We are like cells in that body. We only live a short time, unlike the DNA which has been honed through numerous generations.

              Now, if everything in existence conforms to the one unchanging, consistent will of God, then it behaves as designed and does what it’s supposed to. Just as the natural world maintains a delicate balance. Adam was the first being able to behave contrary to God’s will. For the first time there was a second ‘will’ at work in existence. An alternate will that’s not consistent with God’s. A second source capable of creation.  We, as free-willed (theological free will) beings are able to create actions and behaviors that are not ‘of God’ that are then part of existence as well.

              In the DNA/cell analogy you can maybe see how this ability to behave outside of God’s will could be detrimental. Imagine each cell in your body could decide for itself how to behave. Not having the DNA’s ‘wisdom’ honed through numerous generations of how the body works best, it’s highly likely that cells able to behave contrary to what the DNA code dictates would be dangerous. They would be potentially cancerous. If cells began to live longer than they were meant to, or behave contrary to what they’re supposed to do, then they could potentially be cancerous, ultimately endangering the body as a whole. Like if all the cells in your hand decided they didn’t want to just be a normal hand anymore, but instead they wanted to be twice as large. They wouldn’t have the proper perspective and knowledge to know that being a hand twice the size as usual robs the body of resources needed elsewhere and throws off the balance needed to maintain proper functionality.

              In my mind, God ultimately had 3 options: No existence, Existence with everyone/everything behaving exactly according to His will, or existence that includes beings with their own minds and their own individual wills. But, existence only really works right if those with the choice to do so choose to conform to the creator/authority. Rather than being the default state, now it’s a choice. You can have the choice, you can have your own mind and make your own decisions, but if you’re going to be a part of existence you have to choose to respect and conform to the authority. It’s not God being mean, it’s not pride or the need to be worshipped, it’s just simply necessary.

              1. Seafarer Mama profile image87
                Seafarer Mamaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                And then there is the UU belief that everyone is saved if they choose some spiritual path that leads them to love, and therefore to a connection with the divine.  in that connection, we respect others' spiritual paths. If we unite in love, evil does not have a fighting chance to take over our world.  All this bickering over specific religious tenets  keeps us divided...and thus not united. :0(

                God gave humans the gift of free will...for better or worse. That complicates our lives to some degree. We can make good or bad choices, and God is a patent parent who lovingly watches us learn as a result of the "consequences" of our choices. We can learn from each other, but if we try to coerce each other, we are not behaving in a way that encourages others to reach out for a relationship with God.....but God, and Jesus for Him, asked us to be healers for each other so that we will know Him better.

                Giving humans free will was one of the most creative acts of God. That means He wills us to be ourselves, and enjoys weeing the different ways we can invent to make our lives and the lives of many others better, and how we can find ways to be kind to one another...to beat odds...like David stoning Goliath.  If we unite, we can be the stones that knock out all of the goliaths in this world...but we have to rise above petty differences and work together...and respect each other's spirituality...that part of us that inspires us to do/be good, no mater what our which form of the divine we have a relationship with.

                God did not give us free will in order to coerce us into a certain set of beliefs. He created us as individuals, with our own minds to reason out what we believe in. We do also have the propensity for faith...and that is divine, and that often leads people to endure lots of torment for the sake of doing what is right, and protecting others.

                1. Seafarer Mama profile image87
                  Seafarer Mamaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Please forgive the typos, it is harder to see the smaller print in the composing boxes than it is to see the finished product, so i missed a few of the "misspellings" and "miswordings" in my message.

                2. Maleficus Luminos profile image60
                  Maleficus Luminosposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  As an atheist i tend to think if I died and were to stand before God.. would he say.

                  "You used the intelligence, and the gifts that I gave you. You meant well and you helped those around you. Thank you for trying to leave the world in a better place than where it started"

                  Or would he say.

                  "you did not give enough money to the church, You did recruit enough believers into my church, you did not hate and despise those who you were told to hate and despise and you let the world wither into immorality and sin. You should have stopped the gays and lesbians from marrying, you should have stopped anyone trying to get an abortion and you should have made it illegal for anyone to get one."

                  Personally, the second one is petty. Its not about money, is not about converting others, its not about hating gays, and its not about dictating the lives of others. This is why I am an atheist, because no god is so petty, no god would involve himself so deeply in the politics of humans.

                  I have no capacity at all for faith, which is why i could not believe in god if I wanted to.

              2. Maleficus Luminos profile image60
                Maleficus Luminosposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I find that to be a very weak analogy frankly.

                Mutation in cells also leads to evolution, in this case social evolution which is desperately needed.

                These rules and laws you state we should abide by, these are morals which are determined through society's evolution. Not killing isn't wrong because "God said so" its wrong because it removes a member of society who could otherwise contribute to the whole.

                Nature itself is self balancing. A lame or in your analogy "imbalanced" body would die or adapt. Welcome back to evolution.

                Your analogy also seems contradictory to the existence of free will. DNA is a very specific thing. It replicates itself perfectly (or tries) and is predictable (we know the four chemicals that make up the main part of the DNA)

                If we all adhered to this "DNA" There would be no free will just as the cells in my fingernail have no will or the cuticles in my scalp. But then again, religion has been used often as a tool for control.

                Another point along this same argument is cells are unthinking and do not have morals. Therefor when killing a cancerous cell there is no remorse or reason to not do it. It is just a biological function.

                Would you say its alright for the body to kill cancer, or fight cancer as it would in your analogy. Through murder, or perhaps, genocide? I dont even know how many crusades there were against the pagans and non christians but because they are doing gods will, cleansing the cancer from the "DNA" it is okay what they did through your analogy and reasoning.

                Lastly, Bodies naturally contain backteria. You and I both have more bacteria and foreign cells in our body that we have of our own. Its natural and our bodies continue to work and function fully. It is because of this foreign bacteria and cells that we CAN function, it is necessary.

                1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
                  HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Exactly, "a lame or 'imbalanced' body would die or adapt". The analogy has to do with the perspective of a willful creature. The DNA is the blueprint for a successfully functioning body. In this way it is the authority as far as what cell behavior is beneficial to the body and serves the body's collective needs as one whole organism. Without the DNA the cell would have no way of knowing what behavior previous generations employed to survive. If cell behavior were to be 'decided' by each individual cell, with each cell only having the experience of a few days of life, and each deciding what to impart going forward to future generations of cells how to behave, and each subsequent generation having the choice of whether or not to follow the behaviors passed on, before long the body could be in serious danger. It's not so much about conforming to determined behavior, thus relinquishing free will. This analogy more has to do with conveying an understanding of just how dangerous and volatile the capability of freely choosing behavior can be in such a balanced environment without the wisdom of knowing/understanding the full extent of the impact of our actions.

                  For example, the crusades you mentioned. That's the equivalent of the cells in your body disagreeing about what the DNA says. Some decide they know better than others how those others should be behaving, then begin to take matters into their own hands and destroy other parts of the body they deem 'harmful'. Like you said about murder, they'd be removing members of their own 'society' not knowing the full extent of the effects of their actions.

                  Think about how a company works, or an army. It's a collective effort made up of numerous individuals, but there's a definite chain of command. There must be a consensus among all members of that company/army of who the authority is. Where the buck stops. Who has the final say. That doesn't mean individuals can't freely choose what they do, because individual creative input also contributes. But for the collective effort to be efficient and effective, you can't have a bunch of different but equal authorities. There must be a chain of command for a collective effort to truly work. A single authority, or an agreed upon mission statement, that all adhere to to realize the desired outcome as a collective whole.

    3. Atheist Anthony profile image60
      Atheist Anthonyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I can't answer your question from a religious standpoint but in essence, Atheists choose to believe in no god for their own reasons whether it be the advancements in science that got them or by other means. Evidently your attempting to address fellow men and women with religion and well I figured i'd intervene anyway. If god existed why would he give us free will knowing we'd choose atheism and thus knowing he'd burn us in hell. In that sense he created atheism simply to send men and women to an eternity in hell why? well i believe that answer would fall under that stupid saying "it's all part of god's plan". As an atheist, I'll happily spend an eternity in hell if i'm proven wrong. Luckily there is very little chance i chose the wrong path.

      1. 61
        atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hello Fellow Atheist! Hell, our nervous system will no longer be working, so we won't feel the flames....hehe        wanna go to hell with me in a hand-basket? I'll save ya a spot!

      2. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You are presuming that God created you to be an atheist, which is incorrect, God created you to be His child, obviously you, to date, have chosen to ignore His wishes to spend eternity with you and elected to spend eternity without God, this is your choice, not what you were created for, but what you chose to become: separated from God.

        We cannot blame God for our own choices.

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          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You are presuming that there is a God, which is incorrect.

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Or it could be the other way around!

            http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uOQx9DxV8Y4/TKksDNQXyAI/AAAAAAAAATc/kHHq4N1lcDE/s1600/the-atheist-meets-jesus.jpg

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What happens to the atheists agua? Is it something bad? Did something bad happen to Ernest? Will something bad happen to me?

              As you speak for god. Of course - you might not know what god you speak for.

              http://us14.memecdn.com/We-only-let-atheists-in-heaven_o_90849.jpg

              Just as likely.............................

              1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
                HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Except that using true reason does not lead you to believe there is no God. When you consider ...

                - there is only one known planet in all the universe that can even sustain life as we know it
                - only one that retains a breathable, yet totally transparent, atmosphere achieved through a delicate balance of temperature/pressure, distance from the sun, size of the planet, living organisms, etc.
                - only one planet that not only can sustain life but has the environment and resources to sustain the lives of billions of humans and however many billions/trillions of organisms that came before and still live today
                - one planet that also happens to have a moon made of light colored rock that actually reflects the sun's light enough to provide light when the sun is not visible, while simultaneously serving other necessary purposes
                - the incalculable odds of all the different interactions between totally unrelated entities to realize life as we know it (changes in the sun throughout earth's formation and how it aided changes in the earth's atmosphere, the moon's effects on the tides, mass extinction events that cleared the way for the next big wave of species, movement of all of the earth's land mass thousands of miles helping achieve both the atmosphere land life would need through the plant life forming on that land as well as finding a final position between the poles just in time for life to emerge that played a significant role in the internal clocks of every living organism, etc.)
                - the conscious human mind emerging from the life that formed on this planet
                - the delicate balance that allows us to still be here (stable climate, water cycle, fertile soil, living creatures perpetually refreshing the atmosphere, the circle of life in general, etc.)
                - all matter as we know it beginning as a singularity smaller than the smallest part of an atom, exploding out and creating the universe as we know it through its interplay with already established natural laws leading to this planet and eventually us.

                Justifying all of this to yourself as nothing more than cause and effect is the equivalent of believing you setting of a box of fireworks spawned conscious life for a brief nano-second that evolved and developed in just one of those burning sparks that actually became aware of itself and began arguing whether or not there was someone or something that set their existence into motion just before that spark fizzled out and disappeared forever.

                This is not a reasonable explanation and I'm sorry to say God will not accept it as such...

                Romans 1:20
                For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

                Humans nowadays have even less excuse. We've only figured out the universe actually does have a beginning, or at least a beginning point, in the past 90 years just like Genesis says. We've only known the universe came first just like Genesis says and that the earth isn't actually the center of the universe for about 400 years. We've only known all life evolved just as described in Genesis and in the same order in the past century or so. We've only known the oceans actually did come first like described in Genesis for a handful of decades. As I'm sure you know by now, I could go on and on.

                Not defaulting to 'God-dun-it' as you like to put it is a necessity for science and is how we've learned as much as we have, which now gives us more insight into God's nature than what was ever before possible. A 'naturalist' or even 'materialist' mindset aides in scientific discovery a great deal.

                However, making any sort of existential conclusions with absolute certainty through science alone is chosen ignorance. It leaves way too much relevant stuff out. We don't understand life, not physical beings but life itself. We don't understand the will that drives life. We don't understand death or what happens when we die, other than there's no escaping it. We barely understand the conscious human mind and still cannot detect it in any way scientifically.

                Saying with certainty that God does not exist is the equivalent of a cop standing in front of a pile of bloody remains in the form of stuff we still have no idea about and saying 'there's nothing to see here'.

                If you're making claims of absolute certainty before science or anything else adequately explains all of that still-as-of-yet-unexplained-but-very-much-relevant stuff based on science alone, then you're choosing to put your faith in science that we will ultimately understand all of that as well through its methods. It takes faith because it is highly unlikely that we will be realizing any sort of scientifically testable explanation in either or our lifetimes. Faith strong enough for you to dismiss the first 8/10's of reasoning/thinking humanity as ignorant Bronze Age people whose belief in God as invented elaborate stories to explain the unexplainable. Not to mention half of the current world's population.

                The biggest lesson to be learned through our current level of scientific knowledge is that there's still a lot about life and this universe we have to learn. Determining there is no God because there is no evidence of God is not a conclusion you reach through reason because no one truly reasonable would exclude what can't be proven because the very mind they use to reason with can't be proven. One offers a totally reasonable explanation to ALL of existence while the other excludes half of it and requires the suspension of disbelief long enough to convince yourself that we're the product of a series of incalculable coincidences.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry you didn't understand.

                  Allow me to explain in simple terms. The biggest lesson learned through scientific knowledge is that majik does not exist, but - by your own twisted logic, you are stating that YOU KNOW WITH CERTAINTY something, but say this is illogical?

                  Check these stats dude:

                  If a god exists (which I do not accept), but - IF a god could exist, there must be an infinite number of possible gods - right?

                  Therefore, the chance of it being YOUR GOD:

                  infinity:one

                  Lousy odds Mr Noggin. Maybe god burns believers for believing with no reason. If there is one. Infinity:1 sad

                  No wonder your religion causes so many fights

                  1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
                    HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    As you should know very well by now I'm talking about just one God. Just one God described distinctly in one document that I can illustrate not only matches up with known science and history, but I can use that ONE God and that ONE document to give ONE explanation that explains all we know through science, all we know through history around the dawn of civilization, and everything about the conscious mind and life as well. One explanation that covers it all. Yours leaves out half of that.

                    The argument you're trying to use doesn't fly here.

                2. jdflom profile image84
                  jdflomposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  there is only one known planet in all the universe that can even sustain life as we know it
                  False, there is evidence of life on other planets, including Mars.

                  only one that retains a breathable, yet totally transparent, atmosphere achieved through a delicate balance of temperature/pressure, distance from the sun, size of the planet, living organisms, etc.
                  - only one planet that not only can sustain life but has the environment and resources to sustain the lives of billions of humans and however many billions/trillions of organisms that came before and still live today
                  We do know that Earth can do this, we don't yet know about ALL the other planets yet.

                  the incalculable odds of all the different interactions between totally unrelated entities to realize life as we know it (changes in the sun throughout earth's formation and how it aided changes in the earth's atmosphere, the moon's effects on the tides, mass extinction events that cleared the way for the next big wave of species, movement of all of the earth's land mass thousands of miles helping achieve both the atmosphere land life would need through the plant life forming on that land as well as finding a final position between the poles just in time for life to emerge that played a significant role in the internal clocks of every living organism, etc.) This is how living organisms work… This isn’t any kind of proof.

                  the delicate balance that allows us to still be here (stable climate, water cycle, fertile soil, living creatures perpetually refreshing the atmosphere, the circle of life in general, etc.) Delicate balance is probably correct, but are you not considering earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, tornados and floods that can all be very deadly? We don't always have a stable climate and it is possible to kill off a species or for a species to die out naturally.

                  I think you are confusing “there must be a god because of all this stuff,” to mere biology, physics and coincidence.

                  1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
                    HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    'Evidence of life' and 'ability to sustain life' are two totally different things.

                    As for other planets I should have continued to say 'known planet' to be clear.

                    The only example of sustainable life we have is this planet. And we know that the only reason life exists as it is today is partially because of the things I mentioned specifically. We have no way of knowing if life would have existed without the changes in the atmosphere aided by the sun, but we see no other example with similar atmospheres elsewhere. We only know of one way life works, and even that way would not have worked if any number of things had been even slightly different.

                    We have a very stable climate. Yes there are things that are deadly. Death is in itself a vital part of life. Without death life wouldn't be possible. A stable climate allows for long, sustained life, like we've had here. Significant changes have happened in the climate, like the aridification events that transformed the Sahara from lush green lands to desert in a relatively short amount of time, but I don't think I need to explain that a slight change in the mean global temperature, a slight change in our orbit of the sun, in the tilt in the earth's axis, or any number of other things, could easily obliterate all life.

                    I am not reaching the conclusion 'there must be a God' here. I am pointing out why a causal only existence takes a very large leap in logic as well. I take the next step by illustrating there is a God, and specifically the God of the bible, through illustrating how Genesis describes things that no human before this age could have possibly known.

                3. peanutroaster profile image80
                  peanutroasterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  We don't know everything, therefore they has to be a god?  We haven't search the entire cosmos to see if there are any other habitable plants to so there has to be a god? We haven't searched all the planets in the cosmos with a time machine to see if there ever or will be a life on any other planet - so there has to be a god?  Genesis presents laugh out loud explanations of how the world was created.

                  1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
                    HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's not what I'm saying here. I'm pointing out the extremely high improbability of existence becoming what it is today through natural/causal happenstance only, and that believing this to be the case is not the rational/reasonable/common sense conclusion it's often made out to be. It takes just as much faith in unprovable assumptions and takes just as big of a leap in logic to accept, if not bigger.

                    The conscious human mind is a powerful, dynamic thing capable of inventing and creating things that never existed before, yet is completely undetectable scientifically. So we know for certain there's at least one thing that exists that cannot be detected in any sort of observable/testable/quantifiable way. In fact the only reason we know it's there is because we each experience life through it. Does it not stand to reason it's not the only thing in existence just as capable of invention and creation, yet just as undetectable?

                    Which is the more likely answer? That existence is the product of nothing more than a series of countless natural/causal-only events that eventually led to the evolution of humanity and the rise of a self-aware/conscious/reasoning mind made of the same stuff as the rest of the universe that somehow became aware of itself? Or that existence came about as it is because it was guided by a conscious/reasoning mind not unlike the human mind we experience life through?

                  2. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Okay, but why does the fact that we don't know everything preclude that there is a God?

                4. youcanwin profile image35
                  youcanwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Those who experienced NDE (Near-death-experience) or OBE (Out of body experience) tells that they don't need air and they can pass through the concrete walls.   Also there are many planets around the earth as well as away from earth which are of millions of light years away.  Scientists discovered it.  These facts help us to conclude that in heaven or hell there is no need of air or things like that.  So I disagree with your first point that air is must for the existence for life. Our souls can live without air.  There is another spear of life where there is no need of air.    God exists. God judges those who does evil.  God loves those who obey Him.  And God is ready to save you through Jesus.
                  The choice is yours.

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Spoken like a true christian!  But we DO know what happens to the body when we die!  It decays, either by the action of combustion/metabolism within the bodies of other life forms, or by combustion in the flames.  Either way, the physical body ceases to exist, period.

                    We DO know that the consciousness ceases.  I DO know what it feels like to be UN conscious - it feels like NOTHING!

                    The only thing which exists after the death of your body and your loss of consciousness, is a memory (an infinite, unmeasurable sensation) in person or persons who have known your body or your personality.

                    Any understanding above or beyond this comes from your DESIRE for something more.  Hence your BELIEF.

              2. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Not very...

                It's not even logical.

              3. kirstenblog profile image78
                kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So sluts and atheists get into heaven?
                cool cool

                1. aguasilver profile image87
                  aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Read Bob Heinliens 'Job' quite a new approach! smile

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You'd think standing before the gates one would say "I guess I was wrong, but I can now SEE". I think I would. I just need evidence. Of course I might just think I was dreaming. I might think my brain is suffering from a lack of oxygen. But all I see is a bunch of people telling I'll burn in hell if I don't do as they do.

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Actually most of the believers you meet here do not say that, and the main protagonists about hell seem to be atheists, which I have never understood!

                From the time when I was not a believer, I know the whole hell thing did not bother me, why should it have?

            3. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Really did  LOL

                 Ta gate should be seen opeing in that PIC.

            4. AFWF Erick profile image61
              AFWF Erickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              @aguasilver The cartoon depicts that there is a God and a heaven that beyond a shadow of a doubt exists however this evidence is not there in reality. Atheists claim there is a lack of sufficient evidence to warrant a belief in God.(or any deity, who knows which one is the legitimate one as so many religions claim there's is the only one)

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                When someone posted a cartoon of unbelievers partying after the rapture, I pointed out that if there really is going to be a rapture, then things won't look like that (according to the Bible).

                I was accused of being humorless.

                Now aguasilver posts this cartoon and you post an equally humorless assertion that it's wrong.

                Now THAT's comedy!

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                  DoubleScorpionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Why was God manning the gate, was St. Peter on a break? big_smile

                2. AFWF Erick profile image61
                  AFWF Erickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Meh. cartoons such as these are up for interpretations though I believe aguasilver's was pretty cut and dry here.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So was the other one.

                    I suppose humorless is in the eye of the beholder...

                    Spock: "Humorlessness is transitory, Captain."

                    Kirk: "No. Humorlessness, survives."

                    Queue ending theme.

          2. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            God does exist. It's not as obvious to some as to others.

            You're pretty familiar, I think, with why I think that.

            smile

        2. nightwork4 profile image62
          nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          is being cremated sort of a warm up for hell cause that's the way i'm going. seriously though, if things like hell and heaven were never mentioned, i'm pretty sure believers would be few and very far between. it would be like telling someone to get an education but you aren't getting a job when you're done.

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Not really, I never came to faith to save myself from hell, indeed as a non believer I had never bothered about hell, (why should I have) which was a subject that only entered the conversation when the pastor that took my surrender said "Doesn't it feel good to know you have eternal life and are not going to hell" and I distinctly remember replying "I don't care about what happens when I die, I just want the demons off my back in this life".

            I was obviously still in a nihilistic mode at that point.

            My opinion has not changed in the last 20 years, after I came to faith hell was no threat, before I came to faith hell was no threat, as I did not believe in it.

            I am pleased to be able to report that the demons did get off my back.

          2. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Might it be possible then that they were mentioned because God does exist and so do they?

        3. tonynosense profile image59
          tonynosenseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It is more than a little odd to say a being that supposedly created everything is not responsible for any of the bad that happened!

    4. Tonu1973 profile image61
      Tonu1973posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Atheists and Agnostics do not believe because they have never experienced anything that makes them believe.  As an agnostic myself I think this quote sums up my views..."Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." — Marcus Aurelius

    5. Titen-Sxull profile image93
      Titen-Sxullposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      1) Supposing a God exists and created everyone I don't think he created people with specific opinions built in, especially ideas about a concept that people can't understand at birth. The idea being that if God created people that doesn't mean he created them with preset opinions regarding his existence.

      2) Supposing a God exists and did create everyone how in the hell are atheists going to destroy an all powerful deity. The best they could do is get everyone on the planet to stop believing. This would certainly mess up God's plan to get people into Heaven (supposing that that is part of this God's plan) but it wouldn't destroy the God.

      I can see the point you are trying to make however I think there are many ways that theists could get around it (like the above). The Free Will defense is commonly used against the Problem of Evil, it fails miserably in that regard but I think it would actually WORK to counter your statement. The old "God didn't want robots" argument strikes again.

      Now God himself would have to BE an atheist, obviously he can't believe that he himself was created by something or else he'd fall victim to the same infinite regression all First Cause arguments inevitably do.

      1. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        but god plan is hell....people going to heaven v/s people going to hell is non competition....according to most christian if u dont accept god , you are headed to hell...according to muslims if u dont believe in allah and his final messenger muhammad you are going to hell...similarly other version...no if we see world population 66% dont accept jesus ...that makes 4.4 billion going to hell...so gods plan was hell not heaven...

        1. Dannytaylor02 profile image85
          Dannytaylor02posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          hell isnot what you think it is, hell is where all people go when they die...the grave even jesus spent 3 days in "hell"

    6. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It allows believers to feel superior and righteous when they evangelize their religion. If everyone was a believer in the same God, there would be no need to evangelize.

      1. 61
        atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A M E N brother!!    lolz

        1. nightwork4 profile image62
          nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          i'll second that amen and up you with a toast of beer.

    7. aka-dj profile image78
      aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God created human beings.
      The rest they developed for themselves?

      In the end, all will glorify Him, anyway. (Atheists included).
      (EVERY KNEE shall bow, and declare that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the GLORY of God)

      1. 0
        jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Arrogance!

        1. aka-dj profile image78
          aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not on my part! smile

          I am not the originator of the statement.

          But, I see how it could seem arrogant to someone that refuses to listen to God's word(s).
          How DARE He say something like that?!!! hmm

          1. 0
            jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Since none has seen or heard god, who made you the spokes person of god and why you are shouting at people who do not listen to you and branding them as arrogant? It's you who claim to know the mind of "god", the arrogant.

            1. aka-dj profile image78
              aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You accuse me of arrogace here

              Then, you have the nerve to blame me for calling you arrogant.

              You need to get a grip. hmm

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol

                1. aka-dj profile image78
                  aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What's this?

                  Where's my coveted double smiley?

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You have to earn them.

      2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If I have to bow to a God, I'll go ahead and burn.  Thanks anyway.  I've had enough of abusive power-trippers in my life without choosing to worship one.

      3. nightwork4 profile image62
        nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        why is he going to beat me on the head till i drop to my knees because i wouldn't bow any other way.

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Wow, you truly believe that the rebellion is so strong in you that when presented with the Glory of God right there in front of you, you would still refuse to recognise who He is?

          That's like saying that a father, holding his new born baby for the first time would feel no awe and wonder, no love springing from a hardened heart, and no feelings of joy, from the baby in his arms.

          I know it was seeing my first child being born, and having him in my arms, that made me start to falter in my resistance to God.

          Standing before God will be (literally) AWESOME, and all doubts and fears will melt away (because the enemy will not be there to whisper lies into your mind)and the ONLY reaction (at least for me) would be to fall on my knees and praise Him.

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes it will be awesome, but for many, the true fear will be just beginning.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ah - true Christianity right there. Fear......

              No wonder your religion causes so many fights.

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well, Mark, it wouldn't cause so many if you weren't so eager to join in.

                It does take two to tango!

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I see. So what you are saying is that you should be allowed to spread the fear and hate without anyone interfering and it is the interfering that is the problem.

                  Gotcha. Never your fault is it?

                  This is why your rreligion causes so many fights.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    No, Mark. What I was saying is that no matter what I actually say, you will come along and turn it into whatever it is you want me to have said. That way, I get to be right because you invariably stick something ridiculous like that on my words, and you get to be right because you can define whatever I say however you want.

                    Like I said, it's a strange relationship but as long as it's working for you...

        2. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Actually, yes.

          At least that's what is says in the book of Revelation.

    8. alisha4u profile image60
      alisha4uposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I guess, it's all because of their previous Karmas....

    9. feenix profile image60
      feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God did not, and never has, created atheists, nor has He ever created people of any other persuasion.

      The only thing that God has done is create human beings, and after each one of those human beings steps into this realm, they are on their own -- or else it could be said that each human being is born with the freedom to be just about anything that he/she wants to be.

      1. 61
        atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Awh, but you forget. If he was one of those ENTITIES, then he could magically transform an Atheist like me into a Christian. Oh, thats right, hes not here,,,,,lol

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes He is!

          If He magically made everyone what you think He should if He existed, that would be proof He's not who He is!

          If you couldn't choose whether to love God, then you could never really love Him. If you can't choose to dislike Him, then you can't really hate Him.

    10. Mark Pitts profile image61
      Mark Pittsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God didn't "create" atheist. He created us, and gave us freewill, and some of us chose to be atheist. That is not to say people are "bad" if they chose to be an atheist. I have known, do know, and will know many, who were good people. It is up to God to judge, and I would be wrong to do that in His stead.

    11. nightwork4 profile image62
      nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      religious nuts created atheists and the irony is they created god too. isn't that strange.

      1. mischeviousme profile image61
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There has to be a reson for some, it's usually not rational and when it is, irrational people hate it.

    12. 61
      atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Welcome to my life...........religious people trying to tear you down..good thing I'm so resilient...

    13. Civil War Bob profile image61
      Civil War Bobposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm surprised you ALL you folks on both sides of the argument missed the Bible's answer to your question; especially the atheists who for some reason have a better handle on Scripture than a lot of Christians!!  Proverbs 16:4 says, "The Lord has made all for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of evil."  And then in Romans 9:22-24, "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?  And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles."  If any of you non-Born Agains want to come over to the other side, gimme a yell and we can talk!!  Enjoy your day, whatever side you're on!!

    14. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No. Lack of belief in anything does not define it out of existence.

    15. 61
      atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God couldn't have created Atheists...why?  because he doesn't exist!   jeez people   can't you take a hint?!

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Obviously not. smile

        Just writing a hub to reply to your question!

        Thanks for taking the time to write me.

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, the hint is that He gave us free will and some people use it to not believe in Him! Don't think the hint could be much clearer!

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Why would he care if we believe in him or not? Good people are good people. Is the God you believe in needy?

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No, God is not 'needy' He just wants folk to choose and demonstrate that they want to spend eternity with Him.

            From Gods perspective nobody is a 'good person' and I seriously doubt anyone could make that claim to God with truth in their heart.

            Personally if I were to be even considering spending just one year working or travelling with someone, I would want to know that they actually wanted to be with me, and be sure I wanted to be with them.

            I see no reason why God should be expected to accept someone who has clearly demonstrated that they neither believe in Him, or want to get to know Him, and mocked Him.

            Can you tell me why He should?

            That then leaves the problem of what to do with those who are unable to be with God for eternity.

            What would YOU do?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What a petty god. LOLOL

              Do you get off speaking for god? wink Personal power perhaps? Bet that works really well where you live. Not so much in the educated world huh?

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, I see you are just kissing up. You think he won't notice that you're just a kiss up. Well, I'll reserve my judgement until I meet him. It's the human way. But from what I can see he may be needy.

              I have to say the later part of your post was infantile. You asked what would I do to the left over people who are not kiss ups. REALY? You can't think of anything better than letting them burn in hell (must be painful) for eternity. THAT makes sense to you. Well I say set them free. They can't hurt anyone being just spirits and that's just of the top of my head. But you just keep sucking up to the bully who say love me and tell you love me or I'll burn you. Use your God given brain. Oh did I say that?

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Not sure where you saw me 'kissing up' to God, you are correct, God does know our 'hearts' and can see our motivations, so kissing up would be a waste of time, I suspect that is the reason so many dare not face God in this life, they know what's in their hearts and are fearful of it being exposed.



                Did I quote hell?

                No, I asked you a question, which you should be able to answer, as you consider God to be your equal, or maybe yourself to be the equal of God?

                Just answer the question: What would you do?

                And remember I did not mention hell, you did.



                OH, I see, was that your answer, just "set them free. They can't hurt anyone being just spirits".

                Ever heard of demonic spirits, those spirits that are under the dominion of the enemy, Lucifer, Satan, whatever one calls him, I prefer 'the enemy'.

                If God just 'sets them free' then those spirits would just be more demons under the enemies control who were tasked with troubling humanity and trying to bring about the destruction of all they encountered.

                In order to be 'set free' they would have needed to be unworthy of spending eternity with God, i.e. they would already be 'not good' - no I think that is too simple a solution and one that would create more problems for all.



                Yes you did just say that, and I appreciate it. smile

                Once again you bring up burning (presumably in hell) which (again) I have not mentioned.

                Why would anybody who did not accept that God exists be concerned about that?

                When I was a non believer, I never worried about hell, why would I, I knew (then) that God was not real.

                When I realised that God was real, and came to faith, again I never worried about hell, because I was not liable to end up there, (if it exists as the Catholic Church defined and wrote about it) so why would hell be a problem?

                It seems atheists think God created this hell place to punish those who will reject His love, when in fact it has no bearing on the issue.

                If God is God, and therefore accountable (to Himself) for all the people ever created, then as eternal beings He needs to provide an accommodation for all of them.

                Some choose to spend eternity with Him, and He makes it really easy to do that.

                Others choose NOT to spend eternity with Him, and, being God, He needs to make provision for them as well, they are His creation, they are His responsibility.

                My question was, where would you put them?

                My thoughts are that God must create a place where all who choose to not be with Him, and all who by their non repented actions are unworthy to be with Him, can be kept for eternity without His further intervention in their lives.

                By 'intervention' I refer to the protection that the presence of the Holy Spirit affords mankind on earth, from the worse ravages of the enemy.

                In my opinion, that place, disregarding lakes of fire and never ending torment, would not be somewhere I would like to be.

                Any place where God is not present is hell, in effect, but it would be a hell that the residents created for themselves, God would only be providing the confined area for them to reside in.

                What else could He do, when they have proven that they are not wishing anything to do with God in this life, and thereby rejecting eternity with Him?

          2. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I know a lot of people call Him that. If you judge Him by purely human standards, then He seems to come across that way.

            God created us to love Him, that's why He cares whether we believe in Him or not.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What a petty, needy little weeny of a god. Sad, as a matter of fact. sad I pity Him.

            2. Castlepaloma profile image22
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So would sub humans understand Yahweh best?

              It is easier to kill a human being,  thinking he is sub human, if some leader pointed them out as sub human/demons

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Seems to be correct. Worked for Hitler.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Our consciousnesses dose not want to kill real human being, So Politician in RELIGIOUS clothing are selling us the concept that the other side are evil doers or sub human demons. In order we can give our devolution to offensives war budget and take their demon resources as punishment

                  So many Silly people fall for it almost everytime, when will we grow up

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    When all of us stop thinking that anyone different from us is the opposition, and start acting in unity against our common enemy, currently represented by the 1% who run things.

                    If the 99% did that, it would end, however we still buy the propaganda that sets Democrat against Republican, Atheist against Religious, and Rich against Poor.

                    The 1% are not rich, they are super, super rich, the rich are just as much pawns as the poor.

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Worked in the US against Japan. Made the Japanese look sub hunan and then dropped a couple of atomic bombs. There is even a name for it. Propaganda.

              2. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I understand your point and it's a valid one.

                God created us all in his image. God created us ALL in his image. So no, there are no "sub-humans." But humans of all persuasions (religious, ethnic, political, and yes, orientation) have a tendency to see other groups (especially ones they disagree with) as "less than." It's a sad reality but a very real one nonetheless. Jesus point out that we should not be like that.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So, god is a homosexual atheist?

                  1. Cagsil profile image82
                    Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol lol lol lol lol lol

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    No he is a needy narcissus.

                  3. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol   lol   lol

                    Sometimes Mark you are the funniest!

                    lol   lol   lol

            3. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I have to say Chris I'm having a hard time following your logic.
              We are constantly told God created us in his image, but when we question his needy motives I'm told "If you judge Him by purely human standards, then He seems to come across that way."
              Is there another way of judging him? I don't think the logic "we can't understand the motives of a God" holds up if we were made in him image.
              I just doesn't make sense.
              He created us to love him, but he seems narcissistic and cruel (the whole hell thing).
              He is all powerful and alone, except for angels and the devil, that in all his power he can't control.
              He created all this for us, even the Filarial Worm? Just to cause pain?

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                A lot of people do. Almost all the people I regularly talk to in these forums have trouble with it.



                Well, "made in His image" is not the same as "created as His equal." It's like an artist (and God is an artist!) who paints a self-portrait. The picture looks like them, depending on how talented they are it might look exactly like them. But it doesn't have every single quality that the artist has. And if you judge the artist as an entire human being based on the portrait, there are so many things you just never know.



                If He were needy, narcissistic and cruel, he'd either just have created robots incapable of anything other than blind worship, or he would constantly be opening the ground under people's feet, like some Louis XIV writ large. He wouldn't have given us the ability to choose whether to love Him or not.

                And it's a mistake to think He "can't control" the angels or the devil. The angels only do what He tells them to in the first place, and as Martin Luther said, "The devil is God's devil." What that means is that although the devil is evil and trying to do bad things, he cannot wreck the planet, which he would do if God allowed it.

                You keep going back to the Filarial Worm. I don't know. There are things I don't know and may never know. But I trust that God had a reason for creating it.

    16. cruelkindness profile image72
      cruelkindnessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry, but the question ask can not be true question. Being that man created the concept of god and atheism and any other religion.  We can't speak for God.  I'm sure god (divine) is nothing we ever imagined.

      Cruelkindness (Subliminally Thoughtless)

      http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6748493_f248.jpg

    17. pennyofheaven profile image81
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God could be an atheist. Omnipresent is worth pondering over.

    18. brotheryochanan profile image61
      brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God never created atheists. Atheism comes from the imagination of man born in a convincing world of sin, temptation, lust and ego. It is natural to align to the ways of this world and so end up being a product of this world which creates unbelief toward God. Some people can see through the veil of this world and humble themselves, those that cannot humble themselves and yet feel obliged to answer the question of 'Does God exist' frequently call themselves atheist, but as to God creating atheists this is incorrect, as we notice in all people everywhere and in all forms of God-like servitude - the need to encounter a divine presence lay within all of mankind, although some earnestly refute this ideology. I believe atheism is a choice not a dna situation.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image85
        jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Excellent, Brother, thank you, well put, so let me re-phrase it for you:

        Man created christians.  Christism  comes from the imagination of man in a convincing world of fear, bullying and control.  It is natural to align to the ways of this world and so end up being one of those who control the world by encouraging a belief in a god..   Some people can see through the veil of lies and lift themselves out of the mindless mess, those who cannot lift themselves up and feel trapped into depending on the fictitious god, call them selves Christian and become servile to the continuing constructs of the human mind.  We notice that some people really get a strong and helpful courage from their belief in God, it's an inherent need which they have and it's like a divine presence within, it's so strong.  This to be respected and not ridiculed.   I say christianity and all forms of regulated religion are a choice, not a DNA situation.

        1. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What is there to be said about things that are not easy? Is it not human nature to desire an easy life, a good life, a life of pleasure, happiness and clarity of conscience? But when things get difficult what can be said then? Shall one say, "This is my lot and i shall abide therein?" Does not a person try exceedingly hard to lessen their own pain? Of course they do and often along these painful paths constructs of the human mind seek to untrap themselves even to the point of denying what got them into that situation in the first place, the blame game for example, hence, the source becomes fictitious and self justifications take over. Indeed, all things are choice but the choosing does not absolve in any way the facts of the matter. DNA chooses our looks, experience molds our hearts and the mind seeks out solutions to all situations. In short that which is not fiction cannot be made fiction because one chooses to consider it as such. To adopt such a belief (construct of the human mind) is vanity which serves the self and the self while serving the self is not humbled to anything outside the self.
          God is humbling but certainly not fictitious.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hence, one of the problems associated with religions and the adoption of such belief systems. If someones path, as you say, is painful, religions can be a perfect escape to a fantasy world where the self is served.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              and this is the scenario with the human mind. What do we believe? is there really a God or is it just the power of ones own mind to persuade. If this God world were just fantasy, i am sure that much like all other fantasies the mask would have been taken off and the sham revealed, however, this God fantasy world as you put it is surviving the test of time, scrutiny of various millions and millions of people and the experiences of those who are in it.
              In secular application, if it helps people then why try to injure it?
              As to self being served, i am sure, that this is completely your own preferred observation probably obtained by reading a few snippets about religion in the newspapers and not by hanging around christian friends who abstain from their selfs, because what makes christianity so very difficult is that it demands self be put on the shelf and those that cannot do this fall away. And since self is to be put aside it doesn't sound like a fantasy world that offers escape but rather imprisonment, unless there were a greater goal or object of gratification, which would be, knowing God himself. Once people get into that relationship with God strangely they are the last ones to call it fantasy. Those who fall away have a myriad of excuses that serve their self.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                First of all, that is a fallacy of ad populum. Secondly, there are far too many religions with various gods, various messages and various beliefs in which most contradict one another. Thirdly, religions change over the years, hence don't stand the test of time and lastly, you yourself denounce other religions as false with your attempted revealings of them as being a sham; Catholicism, for example.

                1. Terminex profile image60
                  Terminexposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  And it causes blathering, Troub. wink

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Hope you are not related to Terminator, Terminex!   Welcome to HubPages.

                2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not refering to fallacy ad populum. I am merely stating fact. There are a lot of people involved with God over a very long time period. If we look at the time of jesus, the pharisees led the largest group of people, afterward roman catholicism herds huge numbers, but neither of these were correct. Numbers do not sway, my point was lesser than that and in context it supports what my point was. If God were so much a scam it would have vanished long ago.
                  Yes there are lots of religions with lots of beliefs and it has always been this way from the beginning and onward. Christianity is different. Jesus is different. True christianity is not a works based religion, it is a relationship and that makes it different from every other religion on the planet. Its not impossible to find God if one shops around. The bible is a very convincing book for those whose hearts are not hardened.
                  Christianity has withstood the test of time even though truths are revealed layer by layer and slow to seep into society.
                  So scientific data has not stood the test of time either because it changes, it has theories, hoaxes, etc. You cannot say there is no standing the test of time because of change. Many people with deeper truths, like jesus for example, don't get very far with the world system but that doesn't mean there have never been true followers of God.
                  Lucky you are to have people who speak against falsities. Shall i tell you that karma is just a revamping of the "reap what you sow" principle. There are many mimicries in the world. Those who are revolutionists cannot help but warn the masses. Don't complain when something you don't believe in gets explained in a believable way, it may incur change.
                  I have always found you to be overly critical and i would rather not waste my time trying to turn sour juice into wine. Good luck in your future atm.

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "A lot of people involved with God over a very long time period" does not automatically make it fact, Brother.  It's possible for a lot of people to be equally deceived over a long period.

                    An analogy is of one person on a parade ground apparently marching out of step with the band.  You might think he was the only one in the wrong.   However, the entire parade ground, apart from him, might be marching out of step with the music.  A sort of "counterpoint contradiction."

                    So the whole argument comes back to what you want to believe:   Personal choice, but a belief can never be proven one way or the other no matter how you argue the point, because a BELIEF cannot take the place of a provable FACT.  Once the fact is established beyond all doubt, the belief becomes obsolete.

                    ...I humbly submit!

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Sorry, but there were a lot of people involved with "gods" over a long period of time, many gods, all of which eventually vanished.



                    Sorry, there is little difference in Christianity as there is in any other religion. Labeling it a "relationship" doesn't change that fact.



                    So far, no gods have ever revealed themselves, yours included.



                    It isn't convincing to those who use their brains. Hearts only pump blood.



                    And yet, science has brought you everything you have today while religion has brought nothing but conflict. If not for science, you'd still be living in a cave, no computer, no internet connection, nothing. Is your computer and internet a hoax? Muslims and Jews also enjoy the benefits of science yet they don't follow your god. Which is the real hoax?



                    Gibberish.



                    You have only your irrational beliefs and denials of the world around you. The only wine you can turn is in your imagination.

    19. ihayaydin profile image60
      ihayaydinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God didnt create the human atheist, it is the self desicion of person to be atheist or others. god creates human as sinless. the man does himself sinner.

      1. paradigmsearch profile image89
        paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If I could turn the page
        The time that I'd be arranged
        Is today to
        ~Close my, close my, close my eyes~
        But I couldn't find a way
        So I'll settle for one day
        To believe in you
        ~Tell me, tell me, tell me lies~

        Note: Neutral, merely observing.

      2. 60
        retief2000posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Did God create atheists? Or did God create humans as intellectual and independent beings?  Isn't it part of a human's "in God's image" nature to decide what he will or will not do or believe?  Isn't free will an essential part of God's creation of humans? 

        A better question might be - why are there both atheists and believers if evolution is the sole means where by a species develops?  What evolutionary purpose is served by a trait and its absolute opposite both existing in the same species?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          There are strong evolutionary advantages to believing something without evidence. Or rather - there used to be. That is rarely the case nowadays - hence the clash as we move towards a more civilized society.

          The powers-that-be have taken advantage of this trait, but we are rebelling now. It mght take a few hundred years, but there is a shift towards the reverse.

          1. 60
            retief2000posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I love irony.

          2. jonnycomelately profile image85
            jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Mark, you will be aware that I agree with a lot of what you say, so here now is a slightly different take on what you have just written.

            Granted in such countries as the United States, where it's seen as a more "progressive" and "scientific" country (both these terms deserve a lot more debate, and I'm not sure they are the best to use in these circumstances), you might expect more rational argument and acceptance to become the norm.   Religion might be much less needed, but of course it's still there.... the human psyche does not change that quickly.
            In other countries, superstition, belief systems, religion as part of a culture are still very much ingrained in their societies.  I doubt whether any amount of "rational debate" would make much difference in the short term; probably not much over 3 or 4 generations hence, if that.   
            Can we be willing to allow that, without pushing the atheist point of view, which I am much drawn to ?

            1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
              HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              There's also the distinct possibility that some are a bit too hasty in our new-found knowledge to dismiss a mindset that has been such an intricate part of the human experience in our quest to better understand ourselves. There's an eager willingness to throw out the proverbial baby with the bathwater, based more on the negative impact that came primarily from the human misuse of an ideal versus the foundational concepts of the ideal itself.

              I equate the whole of humanity's mental development with the stages of an individual life. This, to me, seems to be that teenage rebellion phase, when we begin to form our own ideas and understandings and seek to further our independence from parent figures and the limits they impose on us by challenging the established status quo defiantly. Ultimately I think the ebb and flow of life will prevail and we'll see a shift back, much like what's experienced in adulthood, when you begin to better understand those established concepts of the past and merge them with your own to find something that even more resembles the actual truth.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The baby is rotting from cancer and causes nothing but trouble. I have found the truth. You denying it and clinging to your irrational belief in a majiakal afterlife will not change that. Sorry. One day you may achieve full understanding and you will see that your childish needs are just that - childish.

            2. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I don't think so - no. Look at the USA for your answer. Same goes for other struggles to progress in the past. You think women would be voting without those who stood up and said, "enough is enough," and chained themselves to railings? You think segregation would have gone away by majick without those who pushed to get rid of it?

              I don't think so. In the UK we have had to fight to remove much religious nonsense from every day life. No fight - it would still be there. It is so ingrained it needs to be removed by argument.

              Not sure what you meant to say though - I personally see a big clash coming. We have societies where superstition is the norm, yet they have access to Twitter?  Recipe for disaster..... sad

              1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Certainly I see religiosity, i.e. the tendency to look for "spiritual" salvation from the every-day problems of life, as being counter-productive.

                For example, an acute shortage of food which is causing starvation in the community would call for better planning, more eco-sustainable farming practices and good, plain, hard work by the population at large, rather than kneeling in prayer. To counter the possibility of another earthquake or hurricane or drought, you would plan to build secure storage and lay by surpluses in the better years.  Praying to a god, waiting for a miracle,  will only be palliative and promote carelessness.

                Yet, in the light of reality, a population that is suffering starvation is likely to lack the physical and mental energy to lift themselves out of that hunger mode.  There is the possibility that a religious motive may lead another group of people into helping the starving population.

                Now, is that religious motivation going to help the starving population in the long term?  Or is it going to result in a continual, downward spiral?

                Will that population be responsive to the practical solutions, or will its mentality be stuck in the spiritual mindset?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't know. Eventually - I hope - we will get out of this "spiritual mindset," and most of the religious "helpers," tend to have an ulterior motive.

                  What is interesting to me is the opposite is happening in the USA - you have a population that is largely over-fed clinging to the same religioisity as the starving, which tends to turn into hubristic self righteousness. As we see from Mr Noggin et al. He somehow thinks he has a deeper understanding and - eventually - we will raise ourselves up to his level.

                  This is why their religion causes so many fights. wink

                  1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
                    HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree with your assessment of religion in general in the US, specifically Christianity. That's my family. That's the church I grew up in. I know it well. And I want to shake these people and wake them up too. I've tried myself. I don't want the 'clash' you say you feel is coming. The same one I feel coming. But, unfortunately, it usually takes something big to shake people up and force them to re-access. Humans are creatures of habit. It's this coming clash that's a big motivator behind what I do.

                    Obviously, based on your including me in your assessment of US religiosity, you aren't quite getting my message yet. I know your position well. Though I'm sure you'll object, I am a very logical and science-minded individual, and always have been. This universe and everything in it fascinates me to know end. I have always devoured every bit of scientific knowledge I could get my hands on and still do. I grew up in church, but my church had very little to do with my faith. My faith in God has always been my own thing. Where everyone around me, it seemed, saw science and God as mutually exclusive, I have always only seen cohesion.

                    Here you describe me as having "hubristic self righteousness", and that I think myself and my understanding as being above you. While I can certainly understand how you could take what I'm saying that way, I have to ask, how do you see what you're doing as different? Is that not exactly how you see yourself? As being above believers and their archaic religious beliefs? As having a heightened or enlightened understanding that the rest of mankind will hopefully one day achieve as well so the world can maybe then be a better place?

                    How are you so certain that you're the one that's right, and that I'm not only wrong but arrogant as well? I get your perspective. You see humanity's belief in higher powers as a crutch that helped us along until we could achieve greater understanding, but that it's now more of a hindrance to progress. I get that. I see that too. But you seem far too eager to reduce our descendants, their efforts to better understand, and their instincts and intuition, down to irrelevant and ignorant drivel that we no longer have any use for.

                    In my mind you're not heeding the lessons from the past and seem determined to make the same mistakes. To think you've found the real 'truth' and condemn others' views as barbaric and out-dated. To break humanity of its hold on the past and move forward to a better, more enlightened existence. To fight the good fight. Sound familiar? What do you think it would really take to make that happen? Inquisitions? Crusades? After all, humans are stubborn.

                    If you're going to put yourself in that position, make yourself a warrior for 'truth', then you might want to ensure you really have it. The whole truth. There can be only one. To me, your strictly material-based view lacks some pretty significant explanations. The passionate drive that propels you to be here right now having these discussions, for instance. Where does that come from? In a material world of causation, survival, adaptation, evolution, where does that come from? That part of us that aspires, not just for survival, but to achieve a higher level of greatness. Or the beauty we hear in music that moves us and makes us weep? Or the meaning and purpose we assign to life in general?

                    What makes you so certain that we're now ready in our understanding and knowledge base to take the wheel of human development from here and steer it ourselves? We got here through over 541 million years of evolution with absolutely no help from us. 200 thousand years anatomically modern. We've only even been aware and actively pursuing understanding for 6000 years. Do you really think we now understand well enough to take over?

                    1. dianetrotter profile image82
                      dianetrotterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Wow!  I like this!

                    2. Mark Knowles profile image61
                      Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Take over from what exactly? lol

                      We have always been "in charge" ourselves. We have adapted and changed and evolved naturally - nothing to do with your religious nonsense. Your belief in majikal nonsense will not change that. Although - by your logic. We were doing just fine until your Invisible Super Being intervened - then we started to fight with each other.

                      So - your question is moot. We are not so important as you arrogantly imagine. We have been here - as you say - just a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms.

                      We will evolve as we always have done. We will either survive and adapt and change as needed. Or we will go extinct - as happened to our predecessors. Either way I doubt we will be here for long.

                      I sometimes wonder if you have bothered to even try to understand how evolution works and where we are on the "Grand Scale"? Example:

                      Dinosaurs "ruled," the earth in the form we understand them to have done for 130,000,000 years.
                      Humans have "ruled," for 200,000 years and only started messing with nature the last 10,000 or so.

                      We shall see. Personally I don't hold out a lot of hope for us. Especially all the time we cling to the ridiculous beliefs some hold. My money is on the cockroaches next time out. Those things take a lickin'.  wink

                    3. A Troubled Man profile image60
                      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      We hear that often from believers who have yet to convince us of their so-called 'scientific knowledge' as they only tend to obsess about philosophical questions that science does not answer, but instead explains how it all works, despite the believers motives to drive their belief system into the mix.



                      The attempt to present reality to the faith-based believer is often misunderstood as enlightened understanding, it's simply reality.



                      Those descendents you refer only offer ignorant drivel. What else are we to do with it?



                      Again, your philosophical questions can be answered using "material based" explanations in regards to how it all works. Assigning a meaning or purpose to life is something we do as individuals, not something an imaginary god has decided for us.

      3. safiq ali patel profile image70
        safiq ali patelposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Was it god who created atheists or is it more a case of atheists create there own frame of mind which says there is no god. But it was god who created the atheists body and not there mind.

      4. vveasey profile image83
        vveaseyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        God didn't create atheists
        Atheists created themselves

        A better question is who created God?

      5. A.Villarasa profile image80
        A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        God creating atheists is a self-destructive act? The question assumes that atheists would become  so powerful and so inummerable that  God would be  overwhelmed by their sheer arrogance and hubris.  Now that  assumption is truly laughable to say the least.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And you wonder why your religion causes so many fight. wink

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And yet, we live in secular societies, not religious ones. Children are not taught to believe in God in schools, they are taught evolution. The more often believers talk about God, the more God gets pushed back into obscurity.

          Where is your God's power?

      6. wtaylorjr2001 profile image80
        wtaylorjr2001posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Assuming God exists. God didn't create atheists. He created human beings with free will. He created entities with the ability to expand infinitely in any direction. He created a community of minds that could tackle any question, any situation, anything. He created a blank slate that could be filled with truth or lie.

        Assuming God doesn't exist. The question is meaningless, let's go to the bar down the street.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          +1

      7. 0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        When you find out, let me know. I have a bone to pick with her.

        1. jonnycomelately profile image85
          jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          My suggestion is that we are never going to totally illuminate religious belief, nor the human need for it.  What I am saying here goes against my disdain for non-sense religious belief in the face of good common sense.   However, I suggest a mediating way to improve the debate.... which is not going to resolve in a 1000 years!

          If those who are stuck in the realm of religion are willing, just a little, to relax towards more scientific discovery and findings;   and those who are strongly anti-religion for whatever reason are willing to just let religious people have a bit more freedom to believe.....Then each side might be open to new insights, without having to change their fundamental beliefs.

          Those who are already open minded enough to say, occasionally or frequently, that "I don't know the answer," are going to listen and applaud some common sense in this hub.

          There might be an ensuing debate, instead of an adversarial rant.

          Just a suggestion.......!

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            As far as I know, no atheist inflict atheism onto the religious. We don't knock on door and we don't care what they do with their Sunday mornings. The religious knock on doors and even vote religiously on politics. A secular society is what is needed, but the very religious can't even agree on that, some want the lords prayer in a public school.

            1. jonnycomelately profile image85
              jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh?  So what precisely are you trying to do in this hub, Rad Man?   Enlighten us?

              You are certainly tending to ridicule anything with a belief side to the argument.

              What's good for the goose is good for the gander, except one may be a bit tougher than the other!

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Ah, you may want to have another look at what forum we are in.

      8. voovoo1 profile image59
        voovoo1posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        God gives us all free will. You either follow him or you don't. God does not create destruction, man does. God may allow it but only because of the choices man has made. I don't understand why so many things, situations or people go "bad" but I know, personally, not to point the finger at God. You want to be an Aetheist, that is your choice not Gods.

    20. ib radmasters profile image60
      ib radmastersposted 4 years ago

      What is one word meaning the opposite of Aetheist?

      1. Matthew Kirk profile image88
        Matthew Kirkposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Theist radmasters

      2. Dave Mathews profile image59
        Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        In one word "Believer".

    21. WretchedRapture profile image84
      WretchedRaptureposted 4 years ago

      Perhaps God made Atheists to challenge his followers. A sort of Job built into the system to try an individuals faith throughout their lifetime. Also, if God didn't give us free-will to choose to follow him on our own accord, there wouldn't be much meaning to having faith. Not to mention you can just throw the whole "all-loving" theory out the door.

      1. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        @WR nope ...god created hell for his fun , now needs some people to fill in...how would merciful loving god have fun without people burning in eternal hell just for reason that god chosed to remain invisible...wrote endless books , has 400 versions...

        1. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          for god so loved the world... etc.. gave his own son... etc... should not perish
          Strongs greek #622   perish    destroy, destroy fully.
          Hell, except for when gehenna is used inspite of strongs catholic connontations, means grave or tomb.

          In short, a God who loves would not punish for eternity but would in His specific situation of infinity, everlasting life; destroy fully all those not able to attain to everlasting life. Its a case of all or nothing.
          To say that God created hell is incorrect, the catholics 'created' or defined hell to be an abode for the dead. God said 'all must die', and therefore will be buried in a grave and that he would raise up the ones faithful unto everlasting life at the time appointed: the rest will be utterly destroyed. Atheists get what they want, which is nothingness and Gods people get what they want. Gods idea of fun is to rejoice over souls that are saved, while He hurts about everything else gone wrong in the world.

    22. lsdockery profile image60
      lsdockeryposted 4 years ago

      I don't believe that "God" is responsible for the actions or the personalities of humans, or even other animals for that matter.  It makes since to me that we are a small part (a very small part) of something infinite and that we are who we are because we are in charge of ourselves.  We are influenced by our environment and choose to be who we are and believe what we want.  If we have the opportunity to have another life then maybe we carry what we have learned over to the next one.  The thought that we have this controlling being who decides our fate and allows terrible things to happen as part of "his" big plan seems quite archaic and it is time we as humans work on moving past the religion part and see the much much much bigger picture.  Talk to a person who has experienced something spiritual like a near death experience.  Better yet, read the many stories of Atheists who have had near death experiences--now that's insightful...

      1. MizBejabbers profile image92
        MizBejabbersposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hear! Hear! Isdockery is makin' sense.

      2. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You post is good up to the part about another life of which the bible, for unknown reasons except maybe truthfulness, teaches that there is no other life after this one except in and by even because of Him. So hinge a futurity on a maybe if you insist.
        God controls our fates when it lines up to coincide with His fate. Albeit fate is noun and not a verb meaning that fate is mans constructed excuse for the workings of God, in which workings, trials, tribulations and indeed terrible things happening do have a hand in bringing people closer to God and if not closer usually, it brings people to a position of thinking about God, for without sickness and poverty, etc few people would ever consider God if ever, would they seek Him out.  God hovering over a planet and correcting all bad things is a scenario much like other fiction it just would not work, because without choosing and love, albeit relationship, those on the planet would be nothing less than a prison with God being a prison keeper.
        NDE are discredited by atheists, spiritualists and ordinary people as to not be enlightening. In fact, majorly the consensus is that neurotransmitters are firing rapidly trying to keep the body functioning and other biological functions are on high alert mode and what occurs is just biological basics and have no keen insights into any world or plane of existence at all.
        What bigger picture you refer to is beyond me unless it is in God. That is the only bigger picture i know of, indeed all else pales in comparison.

        1. pennyofheaven profile image81
          pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Elijah was said to have come back in the form of John the baptist. That would indicate that Elijah had another life.

          1. brotheryochanan profile image61
            brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Are there any other examples of people coming back in the bible?
            We cannot take one verse and make doctrine out of it. All truths are backed up by supporting verses in other places of the bible.
                 David said of his own son:
                 2 Samuel 12:23   But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
            More specifically Luke said:
                 Luke 1:17   And he shall go before him in the SPIRIT and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
                 Apparently and, pardon my assureity, john was not elijah but was of the spirit and power and of elijah. The reason the pharisees and people believed that elijah had come back as john was because of this similar verse:
                 Malachi 4:5   Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
              Malachi 4:6   And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
                    Common consensus about John was that he was a prophet.
            Matthew 21:26   But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
                        John said he was not elijah
               John 1:19   And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
              John 1:20   And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
              John 1:21   And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
                          Reincarnation is not supported biblically. 
            Paul said:
            Hebrews 9:27   And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
            And Jesus said:
            Matthew 18:9   And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
            There are no second chances

            1. pennyofheaven profile image81
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes and malachis prophecy needed to be fulfilled in order for Jesus not to be viewed as a false prophet. Perhaps there are no supporting verses because this is the only prophecy that was of any importance.

              Jesus himself pointed to John the baptist.

              There is no other way in my mind for reincarnation to occur other than spiritually. Assuming that  reincarnation is possible.

              1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                What seems a totally incongruous idea... that this physical body can or even needs to reincarnate. 

                When you consider the intricate and complex nature of the chemistry (itself a physical process as we understand it) of living organisms, there is absolutely no way it could "re-incarnate" in its current form. 

                Even the tiniest ant is deeply intricate in both its anatomy and its physiology.  There is a tiny brain there making choices all of the time it's alive.  The microscopic legs are oscillating at millions of times a minute, propelling the ant at many times its own length per second.   Can't you grasp the wonder of this, without needing to know the exact nature of the energy source which activates it?

                You, I, a horse, an ant, a tree, a mollusc, do not need to re-incarnate.  The biological process of recycling fills the gaps that we leave when we die.   There is no need to hang onto the idea that our loved one will be seen and heard and experienced again.   Let him or her go.  That body is gone, forever.  A new one, a new construction of matter will take his or her place.   

                This perceived need for continuum and permanency is at the root of religious belief.  Yet it's totally false.  It's constructed and maintained by minds like yours, Brother.  You get a sense of importance when you preach this stuff to us.   It has no more substance than that. 

                All your goodness, all your kindness, all your compassion, direct it at those living around you right now, but don't cloud the issue with this nonsense about a "god" directing the scripting of book.  That task was taken by the hands of living human beings and the "god" was designed by humans to give the book authority. 

                I.e., the power to influence others for your own purpose of justification.

                1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  This perceived need for continuum and permanence is indeed apparent not only in religion but in non religious as well. This need is anchored in 'self' preservation mechanisms of the mind.

                2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  interesting materialistic view johnny, but hardly pertinent when it comes to those things which pertain to God. As to the book, well I am convinced otherwise because it is an amazing book. I think your opinion shows me what people can convince themselves of when they have to. Remember there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. It doesn't matter whether one is gay or hetero, its if we choose to practice it that matters. The problem i have with people who disbelieve the bible is that they then need to disbelieve all that God is. Lets face it, its a book about God.. In the beginning.. God created etc. So if the book is false then God must be a liar - there's some logic for ya. Further i cannot imagine that anyone or group of people would make up such stringent rules with the sacrifices and the holy days etc and all that the hebrew people had to do and then to find more meaning behind those types and shadows.. Most commonly i find people who disbelieve the bible do so in self defense not because logic or rational or good judgment prompt them, but thankyou for responding anyway.

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Now you are showing your true colours Brother.   What precisely do you mean by "choose to practise it?"   
                    Authors more capable than myself in these matters have written about the misconceptions appertaining to sexual matters in the bible. 
                    You will only see what you want to see, according to your own bias.  I am willing to listen to honest interpretations which try to exclude such bias although I, of course, have my own biases.
                    Although I have openly declared that my only sexual interest has ever been homosexual, throughout my life, you do not and cannot know what I do in the way of practice because it's not the business of anyone else.
                    You will only judge me if you consider yourself in any way superior to me.   The "god" which you think makes judgment is fictitious.
                    Yes, my response to your earlier post was materialistic, because I discount any response which might include the existence of a judgmental "god." 
                    For me, it is my continual interaction with my fellow humans which is paramount, whilst I have time, because at the end of my "time" there will cease to be any more opportunity. 
                    You continue to believe what you like, but count me out of it.
                    Finally, you speak of considering "God" to be a liar.   No!  Humans do that.  A figment of the imagination IS the lie.

                    By way of a post-script, since I can still edit this post, I will say this.   Those people, of whatever sexual orientation, who are totally comfortable with themselves and their desires, with those desires sitting comfortably within their every-day lives, are normally uncritical of me.  They don't worry about any "difference" between us.  It's all part-and-parcel of life.
                    Yet those who have been unwilling to face and come to terms with their sexuality, again of whatever orientation, are the ones who feel most adversarial towards me and other homosexual people.  Very often this is at the point where they invoke support from, for example, from the scriptures or other texts, just so they can say "You are wrong! You are deviant. You are sinning."
                    Really the person they are speaking to is themselves.  You see this happening most in so-called churches, where the minister, often speaking out from the pulpit and admonishing their parishioners for their deviance, is ultimately found out to be a liar and an abuser in one form or another.
                    The problem comes from their inner, personal dishonesty.  The solution to their "problems" lies in that direction.  If there is a "sin" separating you from that "god," the inner honesty will find "him" for you.
                    Until you have sorted that out, don't worry about what others are doing.  Their solutions are in their hands (or hearts if you like).

                    1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                      brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Point fingers everywhere else, do what you have to. It doesn't matter what you think your sexual orientation is, even if you buy into genetics as the sourced, its all just excuses. When i said practicing i meant practicing. I'm a hetero but that doesn't matter because i choose not to practice it. There's a mate for me, somewhere, until then my sexuality doesn't even enter into the picture. Sexuality is flesh and when a person has enough spirit the lusts of the flesh fall away and sexual orientation becomes a moot point. My bet is the spirit of God points people toward hetero and the spirit, of course overrides peoples choices given enough time and if they are willing to be patient. I don't see why you let the flesh clutter your spirituality. God sorts all things out eventually. I don't see why you let preachers and legalists deride you of the ultimate route which is training by the spirit of God not the finger pointing of others. Its a personal walk with Christ and no one really has any permission to meddle with what He is doing in you. As with everyone, mistakes are made, sin happens but we are admonished to get up and try again, leaning on God for strength etc etc. 
                      I don't try to judge.. certainly not with a condemnation or a penalty attached but i do have to do a certain amount of assessment which is fine, "by their fruits ye shall know them". I only try to help.

                3. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Its not a Need to reincarnate. Its a fact, even a byproduct!. God lives forever, he wants people to live with him to forever, but he only wants close friends naturally, as you or i would - no strangers sleepin on the couch forever. And the reincarnation is done in a spiritual body, not a flesh and blood body. The personality of the individual is resident in the mind of God, God, whom is everywhere.

              2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                well it isn't smile  But if one doesn't let the bible teach then...

                1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It must not be.

                  1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                    brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    a biblical teaching

                    1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      So Jesus did not fulfil the prophecy if Elijah did not do what he was meant to do?

    23. OutWest profile image60
      OutWestposted 4 years ago

      Because God created us with free will.  The ability to choose.  There is nothing wrong with that.

      1. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        @outwest free will to choose between logic and faith?...without using logical side of brain how do u think our species would have survived...without our ability to seek proof , expand how to u think we would have been what we are today?....faith alone would have kept us in dark ages ...

      2. 0
        AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        (Because God created us with free will.  The ability to choose.  There is nothing wrong with that)

        OutWest,

        Rated one of the great theist posts of all time - a human judging the morality of god's actions.

        And where is the absolute moral standards against which to make this judgement?  I don't seem to remember any 11th commandment of "Thou shalt have free will".

        Just as the fact that there is no 12th commandment to: "Keep thou no slaves" shows that 19th century humans had higher moral standards than the Jewish god who, according to myth, drowned thousands of Egyptians by closing the parted Red Sea for attempting to coral their own escaping slaves.

        Does this make the exodus from Egypt the basis for Christian hypocrisy?

        In essence, this is what your god actually said to the world: Jews, you can keep slaves - it says so in the bible.  The rest of you guys, F#ck off.

        But, that is morally right because it is free will....baptist.....church......belief?

        1. OutWest profile image60
          OutWestposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Buddy relax.  My God is not the god you seem to think I believe in.  Your anger about the Exodus etc has nothing to do with my belief that God has given us free will.  And that includes atheists such as yourself.

      3. nightwork4 profile image62
        nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        this god created free will thing is absurd. it would be hard not to say that considering humans do as they please. free will is a joke as an arguement.

    24. perfumer profile image57
      perfumerposted 4 years ago

      To all the non believers: I think you wouldn't be wasting your time here on this thread if you didn't believe in some kind of higher power.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol Yes, believers must believe we are all irrational and are unable to think for ourselves. How better to justify their own irrational beliefs.

        1. 61
          atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          smile

      2. 0
        AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        (To all the non believers: I think you wouldn't be wasting your time here on this thread if you didn't believe in some kind of higher power)

        perfumer,

        So your claim, then, is that psychiatrists and psychologists must actually believe the patients' Napoleanic claims when they attempt to relieve the patient of the delusion?

        Curious.  Why not just ask to meet Josephine?

      3. Uninvited Writer profile image85
        Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This thread is in the atheist category, why are you here?

      4. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        precisely the area of hypocrisy. So what kind of car do you dislike? lets say you dislike mazdas, so, are you there? on mazda forums telling those people what is wrong with their mazdas (on a daily basis)? No. But we find you constantly here telling us what is wrong with our beliefs.
        Therefore i and others purport to you there is more to being here than meets the typed text.
        Don't get me wrong, when sensible conversation with reasonable argument occurs i enjoy the banter. But honestly i have read more intelligent discussion in other forums, please do more research lol.

    25. Paul Wingert profile image81
      Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago

      Man created god and religion. Some free thinking people didn't buy into the religion/god stuff.

      1. feenix profile image60
        feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You and I are almost on the same track.

        However, different from the way you see things, I believe that God created "man" and "man" created religion.

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I tend to agree with feenix. I think God created atheists so he'd have something to do. Eternity is extremely boring!

          1. feenix profile image60
            feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, atheists are God's court jesters.

            They keep Him laughing with all of their talk that He does not exist.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So the creator of all time and space... with infinity at his disposal... must create logical rational individuals (who are unlikely to believe anything with out empirical evidence) so that he  can laugh at them?

              That's almost as twisted as the "bow down before me" thing.

              1. feenix profile image60
                feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Melissa, where were you when God was handing out senses of humor?

                Please be cool.

                1. jdflom profile image84
                  jdflomposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It seems she was first in line, as her post was the only one that made me chuckle.

              2. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
                HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I don't think God created atheists for amusement. I think atheism is a natural product of a rational mind rebelling against previous establishments they don't agree with or have been oppressed by. I think organized religion has done the most to create atheism. I am a christian, but can certainly understand how someone could feel this way. I don't think asking questions is wrong and I don't think God minds them. It's Christians who try to address topics they do not understand yet philosophically reject that make it hard for someone who is in an honest search for answers to accept.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  lol <--- Atheists "rebelling"

                  1. 61
                    atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Atheists rebel by laughing! How correct you are!

                    1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                      brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Maybe its just a nervous laughter smile

          2. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Then, why would you want to be there?

    26. 0
      MP50posted 4 years ago

      He is who He is.

    27. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      Here's where fee and I tend to part ways slightly...I think he is laughing at the christians. Trouble is, they also bring him extreme sadness, as we all do. Straining at gnats and swallowing camels.

      1. feenix profile image60
        feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This is a real tough crowd.

        I will never try to do my stand-up comedy routine in this place again.

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's keyboard komedy, fee. Sit down, relax...have a cappuchino.

          1. feenix profile image60
            feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, I am very relaxed, my good friend.

            In fact, I'm having such a good time, I haven't even gotten around to washing my breakfast dishes.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That was funny

    28. aytab profile image61
      aytabposted 4 years ago

      Believers choose to believe in the existence of God, even though the existence of God can not be proven.

      Non-Believers choose not to believe in the existence of God, even though the non-existence of God can not be proven.

      Therefore both Believer and Non-Believer are basing their decision on something called FAITH.

      So, tell me again why we are arguing, Faith can not be argued it is completely  irrational and has no basis in any kind of fact that can be argued. It simply is what it is Faith.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Nonsense. Non-believers are not choosing to not believe in the existence of God, they are simply not accepting the ridiculous claims of believers, whether those believers are Christians, Muslims or any other cult.

        That isn't faith, it's reason, logic and understanding. Huge difference.

        1. mischeviousme profile image61
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          +1

      2. 0
        AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        (Therefore both Believer and Non-Believer are basing their decision on something called FAITH.)

        aytab,

        In the sense of evidentiary support you are right, as evidence and proof are subjectively interpreted.  An open and shut guilty verdict to one jury results in a non guilty verdict with another jury.  One has faith in the evidence presented or faith in the lack of evidence presented.

        However, we do not have to rely simply on evidence and proof.  Fortunately, we have reasoning abilities that can help modify or even expand our limited sentient experiences.   

        We may not be able to "prove" there is no god, but it is certainly possible to reason out the impossibility of a god, at least an immaterial creator god.  We start with a reasonable notion - supported by all of mankind's history - that something cannot be constructed out of nothing.

        If this initial starting point is valid,  it then follows that matter must be eternal.  If matter is eternal, there was no creator god.

    29. aytab profile image61
      aytabposted 4 years ago

      "it's reason, logic and understanding".

      It is none of these things, in this instance non-belief is essentially belief, because the existence of the entity in question can not be proven nor can it not be proven. Believers can not touch, taste, smell, feel or hear God, and the Non-Believer can not disprove his existence in the same manner.

      If you were to say "I don't know if God exists or not, either way can't be proven" now that that would be a statement using "reason, logic and understanding". Just to simply not believe takes FAITH.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Pure nonsense. You create your own false premises and expect to build an argument with logical fallacies. It has nothing to do with believing or faith.

        Non-believers could care less about disproving the existence of any gods, whether the gods are Jesus, Allah or Zeus. They know well enough that proving a negative is pointless, which is why they focus on finding "reason, logic and understanding" in the claims of believers, instead.

        Do you understand?

    30. mischeviousme profile image61
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago

      To piss off theists...

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Then what the heck are you doing here, ATM? Seems to me that is all you are concerned about. You are an evangelical, preaching a dogma which you know dreadfully little about, and therefore, accept on faith.

    31. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      God created atheists because the christians had no one to annoy.

      1. 61
        atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        smile               so F*CKING hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!

    32. 0
      Letourneurposted 4 years ago

      My God doesn't exist, he told me so!

      1. Dave Mathews profile image59
        Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You're just being a jerk. God wouldn't tell you that He doesn't exist because if He didn't exist how and why would he speak with you?

        1. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          How and why would he speak to anyone? You missed the point of that statement entirely. Or at least it seems that you have.

    33. im28beyond profile image83
      im28beyondposted 4 years ago

      atheists choose their own path. God allowed them to walk freely because He wants the time to come that these people will choose Him. Sadly, there's many of them

    34. twaggoner profile image60
      twaggonerposted 4 years ago

      It is not sad that there are so many atheist. I am an atheist, but have no desire to "preach" to you about my beliefs. I think that is the main issue that some atheist have with the various religious types. Do you think that shouting about your faith makes you a more agreeable person? While I cannot say that I am an educated theist, I can say that I have spent time studying various religions before I made my decision about atheism and I have yet to find overwhelming facts about how atheism destroys lives, unlike organized religion. If you are too afraid to face the world without your invisible father figure in the sky, that is entirely up to you, but do not try to find fault in a person of non belief because you are trying to convince yourself that your path is true.

      1. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
        EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well put.

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It's not about fear from lack of faith. God has spoken to me (I wrote a Hub about it, and no that's not self-promotion, it's that if you were to ask "like how?" or say "you need physchological help" then my answer is already in that.)

        If you know that God is there, then it becomes a different story altogether. He is not the "invisible super-daddy," far from it. That's also the reason why God creating atheists doesn't doom Him to destruction. Douglas Adams was funny but He didn't know his Bible.

    35. paradigmsearch profile image89
      paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

      "Why God Created Atheists?"

      When atheists die, God uses them for management positions; theists as the follower worker bees.

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Oh I so hope that could be true, I really enjoy not having to be part of the management, and look forward to seeing them try to manage the Kingdom without any job experience here on earth, should be great fun. smile

        Of course, being rational and intelligent folk, the atheist management will know that in effect being a manager is a responsibility and that they are there to ensure that the 'workforce' are happy, and even more ironically, serve God and ensure His will is done.

        Fortunately they will find that simpler than they think, as we believers will be where we wanted to be all along, enjoying Gods labours, walking in the garden with Him, exploring why He did as He has done and generally fellowshipping and worshipping with each other and God.

        They on the other hand will be feeling infinitely silly for having denied His existence and constantly busy managing things elsewhere in the Kingdom, whilst we enjoy eternity.

        Yep, I look forward to it.

        1. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          roll

    36. 0
      Kena Bladelposted 4 years ago

      God created all of us, there's one thing we need to point out: He gave us free will. Those who abdicated of that - angels - are with them. Some people grow in religion environments, so there's more probability to believe in God, others just don't and examples of nowadays society can be a factor to their disbeliefs.

    37. noenhulk profile image55
      noenhulkposted 4 years ago

      Whether you like it or not, it is not God that created atheist. It is atheist that created no God. They close their mind and refuse to believe in God. I don't want to complicate things, there are only two divisions in man, it is believers and unbelievers of God.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        And which one are you?

      2. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I must not be a man, because I think there is a god, but do not claim to know God or what form in what God takes.

    38. qeyler profile image79
      qeylerposted 4 years ago

      Atheists create themselves.  Some become Athetists out of anger; like a child shouting "I hate you!" at the mother.  Others do it for attention, like Christopher Hitchens.  To put it scientifically, it doesn't matter if you believe in Gravity or not.

      1. janesix profile image59
        janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That's very scientific. You have convinced me. Now i can stop searching for the truth.

      2. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No chance we gave it a lot of thought and investigation, and after due consideration decided the idea of a god existing was false?

        1. jdflom profile image84
          jdflomposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well said.

        2. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Investigation is not how one discovers God. Thats like asking the question did you buy your bible before you were christian? or did you buy one after you were christian? chances are the latter.
          To investigate christianity without a bible is to investigate the holocaust without including the jews and yes there were many good men in hitlers army.
          Coming to God as shown in the bible is not a head matter it is a heart matter. Leaving God is the same thing, the head just matters more than the hearts opinion. So you see, quickly in an over view, investigating is not the solid footing one comes to Christ upon. Its a matter of heart. Then comes the investigating and that is done with bible not an almanac.

    39. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      Great...Rad Man. Better hike your pant legs up! The B.S. is going to get deep. I'm outta here.

    40. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      God created atheists to give judgemental christians something to keep 'em busy. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, you know!smile

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Please try not to use the words atheists and devil in the same sentence, you're just throwing the dog a bone!

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Arf, arf!

    41. 0
      Emily Sparksposted 4 years ago

      God didn't create Atheists.  He created people with a free will to chose.  Atheists become atheists out of ignorance to God's Word.

      1. Cagsil profile image82
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol lol

      2. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Which one out of the 10.000 religions carries God's word and free will?
        Which languages, which denomination, which place and dates etc etc,

        Wait a minute... someone along these lines is a liar.

        1. jdflom profile image84
          jdflomposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Just one?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image22
            Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Just one group is truth and the other 10,000 religious groups are liars?

            Only one Religion is right, all other Religions are  wrong?

            ??

            1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
              Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And the winner is the phelps family church!

              1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The most hated American family, or should I say Adam's family

                1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Haha god said they would be persecuted. Maybe they are more true christians than all the non persecuted ones.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                    Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    If I really believed with all my heart that everyone was going to hell who did not believe in Christ

                    I would be a Lonnie tune too, trying to save everyone.

    42. peanutroaster profile image80
      peanutroasterposted 4 years ago

      The real question is why does man feel the need to create gods. We’re all born atheists.  Religion has to be taught because it goes against human reasoning.  At some point every child wakes up to the fact that Santa, the boogie, God are all make believe. It's only through repetition and other brainwashing techniques does one because a true believer.  The only true believers are mentally ill.  The rest are constantly wrestling with doubt, this is why they so desperately want others to believe.  If other's believe than it means they are not crazy.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well thought out. Once someone says "I believe..." they lose their past and future and they stop thinking and start defending.

      2. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        ...and you write this rubbish with a name and an avatar such as you have, and expect anyone to actually think you could have a valid opinion?

        No wonder the forums contain such inane posts and stupidities, they are populated by morons in the main.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You might want to read it again. He's got something there.

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            OK lets dissect this trash.



            We don't, least ways I did not, I just kinda noticed He was here and wondered what He wanted with me in terms of a relationship.

             

            Evidence please, the sort that can be held up to normal rational and logical standards demanded by secular folk.

            Maybe a double blind test to see if babies first word are "I hate God" or 'Abba".

            Children may be born unaffiliated, that is apparently not the same thing, a smug atheist is trying to tell me that it required years of anguish before she could decide God did not exist, so my lack of religious affiliation at birth, followed by my dismissal of the whole religious concept at age 8 does not qualify me to have been an atheist, apparently I did not angst enough.

            Of course I didn't, I looked at what Churchianity had to offer and said bulls**t, it was only when I was approached by God (over 30 years later) and realised the truth, that I switched teams



            More bulls**t, in fact completely the reverse, it takes indoctrination to stop a child communicating with God, as evidenced by the number of children 'won over' by their older siblings who are in rebellion against everything anyway.

            Sure there are stacks of loopy parents around that drag their kids to church with them and make them sit quietly and mime the words, but folk who know God don't do that, they let their kids play whilst they worship or minister and show their kids Gods love, the rest is easy IF those kids are not deceived by some evangelical atheist.



            My kids never had any Santa fiction provided in the first place, I simply told them the truth from day one, all the presents came from us, but God provided the provisioning to make sure we had something to give them, and that in any case Christmas was a pagan festival, kidnapped by the RCC, and we should celebrate Christ DAILY not on one day a week, month or year.



            I take it the illiterate fool mean 'become a true believer" and he was again spouting nonsense, becoming a 'true believer' does not require brainwashing, unless you count the time spent washing all the lies that the enemy has placed in your head via the school system and media liars, what it does take is serious study with a number of bibles and books, reading what the church fathers have said previously and assessing how that fits in with your beliefs, discussion with mentors to examine the bible, a whole lot of hard work actually. It took me 3 years before I knew the book and understood what was written, and another 17 years carrying on gaining insight and discernment from Christ.

             

            Such a crass statement that if hardly deserves answering at all.



            OK, lets set out the formula again:

            Belief + Faith = Understanding and deciding to come under Christ's authority rather than the enemies authority.

            The path from unbelief to true belief takes time and questioning, so doubt is natural and healthy, that's what proves that this guy has no knowledge of Christ.

            Believers want others to look at what they have found, nobody can 'save' a non believer, ONLY the non believer can come to faith.



            This guy is a joke.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Why not tell us what you really think?
              Why do you ask for evidence, when you don't supply any of your own?
              Do you really think you would have your current belief if you were born on an isolated tropical island with no connection to the rest of the world? If you had never heard of Jesus would you be talking about him?
              I think he struck a nerve and that's why your post seems angry.
              We are all born non believers.

            2. jdflom profile image84
              jdflomposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Maybe a double blind test to see if babies first word are "I hate God" or 'Abba".
              I realize you are just trying to prove a point, but honestly – hate god? Atheists merely don't acknowledge the existence of god, which is not hate. Just because someone doesn't believe something to be true does not mean they automatically hate it. You appear to be a very angry person...

              Children may be born unaffiliated, that is apparently not the same thing, a smug atheist is trying to tell me that it required years of anguish before she could decide God did not exist, so my lack of religious affiliation at birth, followed by my dismissal of the whole religious concept at age 8 does not qualify me to have been an atheist, apparently I did not angst enough.
              Why is angst a correlation to atheism? I’ve never felt any sort of angst. I was born without the idea of god, had it instilled into me after I was old enough to understand, and rejected it after learning about it for quite a while. It just never felt correct and took a lot of soul searching to realize I was an atheist. Again, you seem to be getting increasingly hostile. It is this post that makes it seem like you are the one who has a lot of angst…

            3. peanutroaster profile image80
              peanutroasterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Stories of Santa are harmless fun and when the child realizes the truth, the parents don't then turn to brainwashing techniques to continue the lie. 

              The same child born in a different place would have a different religion instilled in them, yet by accident of birth somehow they receive the "one" true religion.

              1. 61
                atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Now, one cannot say Christianity is the TRUE religion because you were born in America....so the Hindu religion of India is wrong because they are in India?  That's really racist, and prejudiced

          2. Castlepaloma profile image22
            Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I thought peanutroaster was interesting in part

            To a good degrees babies are born Atheist because they are born with only two fears. Fear of loud sounds and falling, AND every other fear is learn like the fear of God in Religion

            The main evil I can understand is the lack of or the absence of reason and through repetition and brainwashing techniques does not make only Religion and the other 10 religions liars.  I would not go as far as true believer are mentally ill, I would say that to people who murder are a mental illness condition. 

            If I have  doubt about anything, my focus will expose the problem for what it is. The bible has too many problems to bring me true peace and true happiness when there are many greater solution and other ways to God,

            For example- every one is god. See no fighting and equal respect. No! my God is better then your God and why fight the 90% who think there is a God. Sorry Atheist and the Religiously impaired. The fighting endlessly in an ugly marriage,is not what I wound wish upon anybody

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I agree, I mostly thought peanutoaster was funny and I enjoyed the reaction he got. I also don't think religious people are impaired, but I do have to say the deeply religious may have something going on. Claire come to mind.

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Was he just trying to be funny?

                I gotta get out more!

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, I was meaning to say aren't impaired.

            2. peanutroaster profile image80
              peanutroasterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ok maybe not mentally ill.  How about mentally deficient?  Any one who turns off the reasoning part of their brain has to be considered handicapped. Presented with daily doses of information/data that refutes the bible stories of say Noah, Adam and Eve etc and being able to ignore it - is delusional behavior.

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That of course is only your personal opinion, it could be counter argued that anybody who deliberately chooses to rely totally upon physical senses and precludes spiritual awareness is living in a confined world which is not comparative with the reality of a world where temporal and spiritual are intertwined and correlate to each other.

                But I would not insult their mentality or mental state, just feel sad that they were blinkered by world knowledge and therefore spiritually dead.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  But you had to throw in what you thought was an insult anyway?

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah, it's funny that one mans' observations about someone can be another's insult.

                    Guess it's a two way street, or double edged sword, or goose for the gander.....

                    1. 0
                      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      It's funny because your holier than thou attitude decided to respond with anger and insults.

                2. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey Agua - still sticking it to them and causing ill will and conflict like your master wants huh?

                  Well done you Satan Whisperer you wink

                3. peanutroaster profile image80
                  peanutroasterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Its called reality.

                4. Castlepaloma profile image22
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  aguasilver

                  Using the 5  physical senses is just as important as spiritual awareness within real living and in the reality of a world is not base on anyone over ego groups claiming to own all spirituality. In fact Christian is only one of many ancient spirituality  not up to date to mankind's advancement in living in the present modern man lifestyle

                  But I would not insult their mentality or mental state, just feel sad that they were blinkered by world knowledge and therefore spiritually dead.

                  1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
                    HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree that the divisiveness of organized religion is a problem. It's human nature. Personally, being a Christian doesn't mean going to church or hating or judging anyone's actions or lifestyle in any capacity. And it certainly should not involve forcing their views on others.

                    To me life is God creating existence simply because He can. Rather than creating an existence where every living thing conforms to His will exactly without fail, He chose to create an existence where we each could have our own minds and our own wills. He wants us to have that.

                    The only problem is that having a free will totally apart from God's makes us a potential cancer that is just as capable of destruction as it is creativity. Especially since we are incapable of grasping the full weight of our actions. That is something that must first be learned.

                    Imagine if each cell in your body had it's own conscious/reasoning mind and was able to trouble-shoot and problem solve. Imagine how capable our bodies would be of fighting disease or infection or adaptation to extreme conditions or whatever else. The only problem with that scenario is that cells only live a short time and wouldn't have the wisdom to make truly educated decisions.

                    They would still have to acknowledge the DNA code as the authority as far as how to behave so as to not endanger the rest of the organism. The DNA has existed for many generations and knows better than the individual cells what is okay and what might endanger survival.

                    This is why I think belief in Jesus alone is enough. Because belief in Jesus means you acknowledge there is an authority that knows better than you what's best for existence. There's no way we can just be given the knowledge and wisdom it would take to truly wield something as powerful as free will. Wisdom has to be learned. Life is beings with free will gaining the wisdom we need to wield it responsibly.

                    I don't think God's nearly as divisive or strict as organized religion often makes Him out to be. That's more a means to control the masses, remain in power, or drum up business.

                    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                      Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Positing nonsense and insisting people disprove or accept it is divisive. You are divisive. It is no good blaming it ion god or religion - it is you guys.

                      You. Accept responsibility for your actions and words for a change.

                      You.

              2. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I've had conversations with someone who I won't name in this forum who is most like a nice person, but may be delusional. The moment someone says "I believe..." they stop thinking and learning and start defending.

                1. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Interesting comment...

              3. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ooh, good one!

                I can think of a couple of atheists who would definitely qualify then, because they seem to accept that the fact that they are atheists automatically means they have higher reasoning, and no matter how hard they try to prove otherwise, it doesn't matter!

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree they/we shouldn't talk down to anyone. But, you do understand why right? I'm not attempting to insult anyone here at all, but you and other are trying to convince us that fairy tales are true. It's like someone trying to convince you that Peter Pan actually exists. No disrespect intended.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You weren't one of the people I was referring to. I actually talk to some pretty ardent atheists, and I think we understand each other and there have been a few points of friction, but I was thinking of two specific posters who use a fairly circular logic and a small set of pat responses as a means of denigrating and belittling anyone they don't agree with. One of them I'm convinced just like to pick fights. But I wasn't referring to you.

                    And maybe I should stop asking my family for OED's for Christmas...

                    1. 0
                      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      I think I know who you are referring to. I also don't like the mocking and think it could alway be said better. I have recently been attacked by a few who call themselves Christians, but threaten to hurt physically. He even threaten physical harm to a lady who was defending (and that's not even the correct word) me. He and his buddy were banned from the forums and he has been tracking and baiting me to comment on his hub. I guess I had forgotten that the fanatical Christians are the same as the fanatical muslims. I always say I've never meet a muslim I didn't like, but I've meet some Christians I didn't like, but then again it's perhaps because I've never meet a fanatical muslim.

                      Thanks for the kind words. I hope you and your family are well.

            3. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Okay, but does that mean also that the fear of religion is learned?



              Not that I expect to shock anybody with this statement, but the Bible rewards people who look deeper into it. Often, so many things that seem to make no sense or contradict other parts of the Bible actually do make sense.



              It's true, I wish there was no fighting. But if there is an absolute truth (which I know many people don't want to believe) then it is necessary to point it out. It's just possible to do it without ticking people off (at least most people.)

              1. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
                EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It was once said that the truth is relative, unfortunately that's true when it comes to any RELIGION. There's is no absolute one truth with religion, many people believe in many different higher powers, the best thing to do is accept what you think is true, and let others believe what they are going to.

                1. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I've used this example before, but...

                  What if you believe that a flood is coming that will wipe out your whole town, but no one else wants to believe it? If your town is at the bottom of a valley, and you regularly go up the mountain and see that there was a heavy snow fall one year that no one else could see from the valley, and you could see that the town was going to be removed from the map? But when you go down to warn people, they insist that the snow wasn't that heavy, and anyway there hasn't been any trouble for 100 years so why would there be any now? Should you then live and let live?

                  For decades, Louisiana Congresspeople said the levies needed to be shored up in New Orleans. I heard about it on NPR a good five years before Hurricane Katrina. But almost every other Congressperson from other states just said it was pork barrell spending.

                  God does exist, Jesus does exist, and hell does exist. I do accept that not everyone will believe like I do. And I may spend years telling people about it and not have one single person ever become a believer. But one day I will stand before my God and He will ask me why I didn't tell people. What will I say then? And what will I say when they look at me and ask why I didn't tell them?

      3. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Really? That's interesting. I'd love to see the studies where 3000 infants were interviewed and it was conclusively proven they were 100% convinced that there is no God.

        The point where many people "wake up" to the 'fact' that God doesn't exist so often comes when they are taken out of religious households and put in situations (often college) where very strongly anti-religious people become peer and authority figures. In other words, they are taken from one extreme (and often, these cases are not so extreme) and put in the other (there are many anecdotal stories where college professors anounce that all students WILL be atheists by the end of the course and award grades accordingly.) These people actually never "wake up," as if they had been led by the nose in some lotus-eater dream, they go from one direction of pressure to the other. And even then, it's often disingenuous to state that they were repressed in their religious atmosphere. Many of these people come from households where the only "Christian" demand ever really placed on them is that they attend youth group once a week. The rest of the week they are indistinguishable from non-Christians.

      4. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Its amazing to me how God is compared with santa claus and the boogie man, shall we also lump in vampires and werewolves. Just because there are obvious fairy tales that are man made we cannot and must not assume that all things are man made fairy tales. We certainly do not wonder what frodo must have been like and want to meet him.
        My point is that we have a book written by God, through a lot of different people from different walks of life and the book is consistent. We have events yet to occur in the authors time and another writes about those events happening years later. We also have a book made by God that is not meant to be read from cover to cover. In Gods book we are not supposed to start at genesis 1:1 and read through to revelation 22:21 and in this light is a marvellous thing that Gods book should also be so uniquely different than any book written by man. Fairy tale... bah humbugh.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No, you have a book written by people and there is very little that is consistent about it. Men cannot state the book was written by God, only God can do that.

    43. kate12402 profile image60
      kate12402posted 4 years ago

      I agree with your conclusion up to a point.  I don't think it's accurate to say that everything about the human mind is measurable because, to my knowledge, we have not been able to "measure" even a fraction of everything there is to learn about the brain.  Until we have learned everything there is to learn about the brain, saying that everything the brain has to offer is measurable is theory.  Stones and glass houses.

      1. 61
        atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        um.....havent you ever heard of EEG's, MRI's, CT scans and other forms of brain scans as well as brain surgeries?  We have measured SOOOO much of the brain, open up a science textbook if you don't believe me. Go research it yourself, don't post it like it's fact until you can actually back up your claims

        1. kate12402 profile image60
          kate12402posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Of course I have.  But can you in all honesty say that the human race has been able to map, measure, and explain everything there is to be learned about the brain?  I think you'll agree with me that anyone at all educated in psychology, neuroscience, and anthropology would say that there is much more to learn about the brain.  It only follows, logically, that we cannot say it is possible to understand what we do not yet know exists. 

          http://discovermagazine.com/2007/aug/un … -mysteries

          This is from 2007 but I think it illustrates my point.  We cannot make blanket statements without all the data.  You cannot make the blanket statement that we can understand and measure everything about the brain, when we clearly have not proven that to be true.

          1. 61
            atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I see,  but we have explained much. No god was needed to explain something..saying "god did it" diminishes its worth and is an insult to mother nature when someone says that about the ocean or some forest...it's uneducated and pathetic

            1. kate12402 profile image60
              kate12402posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I hardly think that attributing the beauty of the world to a higher being is uneducated and pathetic.  If so the majority of human history has been pathetic, and that is a statement I personally am unwilling to make.  I think what is more pathetic is someone who makes it their goal to devalue other belief systems and cultures.  If we want respect for our culture, we ought to extend that same respect to others.

              1. 61
                atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                oh! I see........the truly pathetic person is the one who goes out of their way to antagonize another person who is merely telling the truth. It IS pathetic, and rather elementary-school-like to attribute that the world's own natural beauty is the stuff created by a made-up, holy being who isn't proven one bit.  I live in America, darlin'. Our culture is not one of Atheism...although it does contain several Atheistic values; such as morality and acceptance. I must coexist with such cultures even though it's one full of redundant ethics and values. How dare you tell me to respect a culture (or cultures) that are intolerant, hypocritical and openly hostile to my own belief system? I do believe that many Christians must needs follow the advice and teachings of Christ before they dare accuse me of INTOLARENCE and heathenism traditions...don't you agree madam?

                1. aguasilver profile image87
                  aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes and no... depends on what IS the truth?

                  You are entitled to propagate what you believe, so is anyone else, if I find it offensive, I don't read it, it's a good option to utilise.



                  Your belief, and you are welcome to it.

                  Fortunately most of the world think differently.



                  2 Corinthians 10:5
                  [Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

                  Matthew 24:14
                  And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.

                  Sorry, it's the job description!

                  1. kate12402 profile image60
                    kate12402posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    atheistchick - no actually i don't agree with you.  obviously there are going to be people in the world with whom you disagree and who's values or belief systems contradict your own.  that does not entitle you to be rude or disrespectful.  I live in America as well, and it is clear to me that you belong to the generation that believes itself entitled yet refuses to give the same respect and rights to others.  Do not ask from others what you yourself are incapable of.  If you cannot respect me, how can I respect you?  It's a two way street and someone has to start.  Be the change you wish see in the world, not the anger.

                    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                      Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Weird. So you only respect people if they respect your ridiculous, mind damaging beliefs?

                      How does that work exactly?

                    2. 61
                      atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      telling a true Atheist to respect religion is just as bad as asking a person of color to respect the KKK. I'm just a simple person who realized the truth about life and hereafter, those who do not believe in the truth are deluded themselves..      and Mark Knowles, thank gawd you are here to back me up! Thanks

                2. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What are "redundant ethics and values?"

            2. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Mother nature... is alive and well and just how is she doing that? lol
              Odd how easy it is to believe in mother nature and all her attributes (which are what exactly) and discard a creator greater than nature.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Nature is real, gods are fantasy.

    44. jainismus profile image78
      jainismusposted 4 years ago

      Castlepaloma, you have asked a great question. Thanks

    45. IntroduceCroatia profile image60
      IntroduceCroatiaposted 4 years ago

      God didn't created them to not believe., It's their choice which is same as believers to believe.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Most people on earth are just as happy without knowing who Yahweh is. Because they are not Aware of him in the first place, in which do not fear Yahweh. Unless a few Christian predominate countries do their best at offences threatening or physical take action of war towards them

        All for power folks

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          See above:

          2 Corinthians 10:5
          [Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

          Matthew 24:14
          And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.

          Sorry, it's the job description!

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Dear me. Blaming the ill will and hate you spread on the bible huh?

            No morals - that is your problem.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That's what I do when I'm presented with a moral dilemma. I grab my Hitchhikers Guide and see what it says. I could think for myself, but my guide tells me that I should consult it first and follow it to the letter, or the new highway will be coming through.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Move your stuff and culture out of here, we are building a golden brick road right through your place and right toward Yahweh Heavens

                Been building it since 4014 BC, served billions of souls

          2. 0
            AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            2 Black Lab 10:5

            "Thou wilt take thy 44-caliber handgun and thou shall shootest thy neighbors whom I hate for their lustful behavior, acted upon while seated in parked cars"

            Sorry, it's the job description! - Son of Sam

      2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
        Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Belief is not a choice.

        1. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Untrue. Everything begins with choice.

          1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
            Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Can you choose to believe in anything you want? Santa? Leprechauns?

            I can't.

            Maybe it is a choice for you (and I can't see how) but it most certainly is not a matter of choice what I believe.

            1. Cagsil profile image82
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It's not that you can't, but you choose not to.

            2. Cagsil profile image82
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You make a choice every time you create any belief, regardless of what that belief is.

              As I said, everything begins with choice.

              1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That is not at all true.

                I wanted to believe in Santa when I was 5 so why couldn't I? It was because I KNEW different. It had nothing to do with choice.

                You can't choose to believe horses don't exist if you are sitting on one.

                1. 0
                  writeronlineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So JWAH, let  me follow. You can't/don't believe in Santa because you KNOW he's not real -  which logically can only be because you've never seen him? (Can't prove a negative and all that..)

                  So, for all you *personally* know, Santa MAY exist. His absence in a physical sense (in terms of your own personal experience), surely does nothing to prove his existence, or non-existence. That's what we're to believe in your argument for your belief in God, who you do *know* is real.

                  But you can't really have it that easy, because God's absence in a physical sense, or the absence of his son, (who may or may not have ever lived, unless you're happy to believe whatever you read. Hang on, sorry, there's that Santa problem again, he's in contemporary literature; refreshed every Christmas..and yet you KNOW he's not real..) in no way diminishes your certainty that he/they  are 'among us' - even if only spiritually.

                  By your logic, we're faced with two clear choices. Or dictums, since you don't believe in choice:

                  1: Both Santa and God are real. 

                  2: No Santa, = no God.

                  That's the reality of your argument.

                  Do I hear sleighbells ringing?

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Wow, you completely missed his point. He never said he doesn't believe in God because he doesn't believe in Santa. He was merely trying to show you that belief is not a choice. I can't awake one morning and choose to believe in God or Santa. Can you?

                    1. 0
                      writeronlineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Read the original statement again. Read my answer - again. The answer and the stement are directly connected. The conclusion re the two CHOICES regarding santa and god is based on the logic put forward.

                      If that's too much for you, don't be rushing in to tell me. Stop and think. The whole idea that belief is NOT a choice, frankly, beggars belief. Have you no belief in free will?

      3. 61
        atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Amen, IntroduceCroatia!

    46. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      Scientology is considered an atheistic philosophy. They don't seem terribly bright, and they have some pretty outlandish ideas. Just because someone doesn't believe in an almighty god, doesn't mean they are totally...sane. Besides, there is no such thing as Totally Sane. It is like the term "NORMAL"

    47. brittvan22 profile image76
      brittvan22posted 4 years ago

      I would like to hear more on the argument two lines of inflammatory statements is hardly a justification for your position.

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        L.Ron Hubbard. Period. Dianetics. Period.

    48. oceansnsunsets profile image88
      oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago

      If there is a God, would he even be able to be destroyed by atheists?

    49. MsLofton profile image65
      MsLoftonposted 4 years ago

      He is the creator of of all things, He cannot be destroyed..thats just my opinion.

      1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
        oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with you.  A creator God couldn't be destroyed by anything.  Maybe its one of the things people don't like about the idea of there being a God... it means they aren't the final word on their own life.  Even without a God however, they are not the final "word" on really anything in their lives.  I mean like being born, and when and how they die, and what happens inbetween that is out of their control.

        1. 0
          jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          May be it is the idea that everything except god need a creator, a logical contradiction, that they don't like.

      2. 0
        jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Does that include himself?

      3. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
        Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        He cant be the creator ALL things because that would make him the creator of himself.

        Who is to say he isn't just some being in another universe who created our universe within his own, just like if a scientist were to create a universe inside this one. That scientist would be the god of that universe but he could be destroyed.

        I see no logical reason to deduce that the creator of a universe of which we know nothing about cannot be destroyed.

        1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
          oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          God would be an uncreated creator.  Its more logical than going back infinitely to say there always had to be something to create the next thing, when we know by science this universe indeed have a beginning.

          1. 0
            jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If it is not logical to say 'something create the next thing', then it is ONLY logical to say universe has no creator.

        2. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If you've known Him and you believe the Bible, then you accept He is uncreated, from "everlasting to everlasting."

          Hard to believe, impossible to understand, but true nonetheless.

    50. 60
      TroyOposted 4 years ago

      God created humans to have free will. God does not control who believes in him and can never force people too. If God could do away with other religions and atheists than humans would not have true free will. A world that is 100% controlled by God would make us like robots. He made us have free will, thus other religions and atheists should be expected.

      1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
        Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That is an interesting assertion. Of course if you have no evidence to backup yor claim then I have no reason to believe that it isn't just your imagination speaking.

        1. 61
          atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          smile    have evidence...and maybe we'll believe you..

        2. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The opposite of that assertion is that God created us as slaves of predestination and we truly don't have free will. Which would validate the claims that people who don't believe will never believe and that their assertion that God is cruel is also something they can't help.

          I'm guessing that's not quite what you meant...

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Agreed.

    51. Above Average Guy profile image60
      Above Average Guyposted 4 years ago

      Many non-believers assume that God should/must be a “puppeteer” who has the power to create only good people.  That is true in the sense that God has the capability to create only good.  But how many puppeteers would say they are fulfilled buy the personal relationships they have with their puppets? 
      God did not create atheists.  He created humans with the free will to believe as they choose.  Think of it this way.  Do you want others to like/love you because you gave them a magic pill (Love Potion No. 9 for those old enough to remember the 1960’s song)?  If you are interpersonally dysfunctional and really desperate for a relationship with another human, this may sound like a good option.  For the rest of us, we want others to like/love us because that is what they feel/believe.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Did you just say God has the capability of creating only good? Would you then explain the Filarial Worm? Or the Black Death? Or Polio? Or smallpox? Or the hookworm? or the Ascaris? Or the Tapeworm? Or the Wuchereria bancrofti (Filarial Worm)? How about Cancer? How about child Cancer?

        1. Castlepaloma profile image22
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          yes, is suffering or hell good?

        2. 61
          atheistchickposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If god only creates good..........he created everything that causes pain and suffering? Some believers may say that he gave us free choice, that we choose all of these things (god didn't create murder, they say. murderers CHOOSE to kill) ok, so we as humanbeings chose to create cancer, the Black Plague, diseases that cripple the body?....that makes no sense that we chose these illnesses to exist. I CHOSE to have a brain tumor that effected my life and potentionally ruined my old one. I'm a new person, but I'm not like every "whole"  person in the world.  I had to start a newlife. Was basically forced to. Was that God's plan to ruin my life and force me to be someone else? If god made me an Atheist then moarlity is not something we Atheists have. 'Cause I'm totally going to shoot someone (TOTAL SARCASM)  because there's no god.......  why should I care?....(again, joking)            once u can answer that, I might have some respect for you

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Wow, hold on there atheistchick. You just agreed with what I said and then said you have no respect for me until I answer a question. But I see at least four question marks? I'll take a shot at the last one.

            Why should an atheist care?

            That is a great question. Why not rob a bank or shoot someone? The thing is atheist have a better chance of being moral then believers of any faith do because believers if being good are doing so to please God and get a good place in heaven. That is not the right reason because eventually they slip just a little at first and then sometimes a lot. Look at the televangelists and the way to many priest that slip up. Knowing your actions affect other and causes pain is the real reason for being moral. Some Christians dislike gays because the bible tells them it's not moral. The action of denying gays right is hurtful and immoral but the Christians can't see it because they are using the bibles morality and not there own morals.

            1. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              If I read you correctly, you're saying that the internal morals of the atheist are actually more moral than the written code of the Bible. Based on what? I'm not claiming that Christians are intrinsically more moral than atheists. There are plenty of atheists who are nicer than many Christians, and more likely to do "good." There are also many atheists who are nasty people and live only for themselves.

              So I'm asking if I'm understanding you correctly, that there is an internal moral code that people just have? I seem to detect that thought in some posts from atheists and agnostics, and really I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

              1. mischeviousme profile image61
                mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Based on the fact that we have technology and the world is that much smaller. Moral codes are personal thing, based on individual interpretations...

                1. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What I'm asking is if there's some kind of moral standard that people "just know". I don't believe there is, that people learn their morality from somewhere external to themselves. What I have read from some other people seems to say that I'm wrong, there is a moral standard that people "just know."
                  Technological advances actually argue more in my favor, because the morals (or lack of) of those who control the media get transmitted to larger and larger numbers of people, who start living out what they see in the media.

              2. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well Chris, I maintain we get our moral code from within and from our surroundings, parents, culture, school, laws, peers... Most of us don't have to be taught not to kill or harm. Many Christians can justify killing. I personally know people who have never stepped into a church, but are every bit as moral if not more moral then the next person. The bible (OT) is littered with things that most of us would think are completely immoral. Take for example the differences between Canadian and US culture, two countries with similar backgrounds and with predominately Christian faith, yet completely different views on heath care and charity. If we both got our moral codes from the bible that would manifest itself into identical countries would it not? I maintain there are some people that do the right thing for the wrong reason. The fear of God is the wrong reason as is the fear of the law because that leaves one with the pursuit of getting away with things. I can list many many example, but I just start with televangelists and priest how mess with children.

                1. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You've opened up an entirely different conversation here. If you're really afraid of God (and most people are not) then you know that you don't ever get away with anything, because He's everywhere and knows everything. And I've said before and say again that there are plenty of atheists who are nicer than many Christians. The reason for reading the Bible is to know more about God.

                  It's not just Christians who justify killing, and in fact many Christians justify just the opposite based on their Christian faith. Personally, I don't know if I could kill a man, except maybe if he were directly threatening my wife or children.

                  As for the OT being "littered with things that most of us would consider immoral," that's true, but I don't think  that's a deep enough analysis of the situation. As you already know! smile

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well said!

    52. waynet profile image47
      waynetposted 4 years ago

      God didn't create Atheists....Athletes became good at running because of hard work and determination!

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Ha, had to read that one twice. Atheists and Athletes look alike to my dyslexic mind.

        1. waynet profile image47
          waynetposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh you're dyslexic too....I lost my legs in Vietnam....

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            How does one lose his kegs to a Vitamin?

            1. waynet profile image47
              waynetposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Too many beans I think!

            2. mischeviousme profile image