The Bible says that all one has to do is ask for forgiveness. Now being that, do you think that Satan might have already asked God for forgiveness? Now before you rattle off scripture.....I don't believe...but I could be wrong....that the Bible has nothing to say on that.
yip, absolutely. The most unpopular thing I have ever said was that God forgave Satan too, that's why he was let out after 1000 years. Plus if you are supposed to love your enemy, well than that would mean that we would love Satan too.
I forgive him, I don't see why not, he is just ignorant and incapable of knowing love, sooo. Just like some people today who are just incapable or "blind", well it would seem Satan is the lack of knowledge. The dummy lol!
ignorant? A spirit being who was so close to our father God? He knew exactly what he was doing, so much so that he got just what he wanted . Even though it meant that he had to be the total opposite of his creator. He is nothing but a counterfeit; he is god with a little G. The book of Revelation proves that satan did not ask for forgiveness. Why would he, he is the god of this world, he pulled it off, got what he wanted and he is not about to give that position up....he does not care about you, in fact he hates you. He will never forgive you, will constantly acuse you and will remind you of all your sins....wake up!
but Satan did ask for forgiveness, read the book of Enoch
"Go speak to the Watchers of Heaven, who have sent you to
intercede for them. Tell them, You should intercede for
men, and not men for you. Why did you leave lofty holy
Heaven to sleep with women, to defile yourselves with the
daughters of men and take them as your wives, and like the
children of the earth to beget sons, in your case giants?
Though you were holy and spiritual, living the eternal life,
you defiled yourself with the blood of women, you begot
children with the blood of flesh, and like the others you
have lusted after flesh and blood as do those who die and
In brief, God refers to human beings as the "elect" which means out of all God's creation (including angels, archangels, and animals) humans are the only ones that are given the opportunity to get saved (ie. forgiven).
God is love, but God is also holy. God gave angels and human beings the power of choice, (ie "freewill") but from what I understand from God's Word (the Bible), because mankind is the "elect" and since mankind also has the power of choice, mankind could choice sin (disobedience to God) but God they would still have the opportunity (before they die physically) to be saved.
Angels, especially Satan do not have that chance to be forgiven once they use their power of choice to turn their back on God (sin). God is also all-knowing (knowing the future from the beginning etc) and He knew Satan would rebel because Satan doesn't want to be inferior to God (even though He will always be because as a created being, you can not be superior to the One who created you, even though mankind still tries to be superior to God). Satan wants to be God and since God is the only God, God knew that to forgive Satan would be meaningless in my opinion because He already knews that Satan lives to try to owerthrow God's authority and take God's place as supreme being.
Again, this is not specifically stated in the Bible, so don't take my word for it. But God did give us a mind, and gave us reason and as long as our reasoning doesn't contradict clear passages in His Word then its ok. But if I have contradicted some CLEAR biblical passages in my conclusion then please inform and I will gladly go back to the scriptures and correct it if necessary. I'm not the final authority, God and His Word, the Bible are!
Here is a hub by a fellow friend that you might want to read:
http://hubpages.com/hub/True-Conversion … ds-Calling
I'm sorry, somewhere in that post something turned itself around.
Let's look at it this way...we're called the sons of satan because we naturally follow our "father", the prince of this world...soooooooooooooooo.....yeah our very being wants God off the throne too. So your argument, or what I got of it, is moot and sort of contradictory to what the Bible says.
LG: Thanks for referring him to my hub. Maybe it will help sort things out
Where in the Bible does it say you are the son of satan?
Do you actually want God off the throne?
You misread his statement there-----TK was quoting the other persons statement and then asking the question. Re-read it again.
Whether I meant this statement or not, you recall the Pharisees and Christ's calling them on following "their father the devil"....so I mean...unless the pharisees were more human than you or I, I figure that might work as a reference.
Jesus called the Pharisees the synagogue of Satan in both Revelations 2 and Revelations 3.
It's not a reference to myself or most people that call themselves Christians.
Your right On point Thinkaboutit77. Everything you said is the truth from Gods word ; )
Hi Lady Guievere ,great question by the way
I dont know if Satan has asked Gods forgiveness ,Im thinking not ,since he made his choice to 'go his own way' and took a third of all the angels with him.
My thoughts on your question is Although the God I know promises to forgive all who sin and fall short of the Glory of God their is one sin that He cannot forgive ( because He Is Holy ) and that is Blaspheming( lying or denying) the Holy Spirit ,you know that small still voice that is often called a conscience that whispers .."somethings not right" or " I am wrong to think or do that" even if we dont call it Sin ,
we know an attitude or action is wrong simply because of conscience ( The Christian gives the Glory to God and acknowleges that Voice as "The Holy Spirt").
Of course if we deny that voice or prompting long enough and often enough our lives begin to show it through all kinds of subtle and often obvious negative behaviours.
When God speaks directlyto our hearts ,calls us by name and we still say to ourselves ( or others ) there is no God,then He considers it to be "denial' therefore lying that He has tried to show us his Love and Truth , and that is the sin he wont forgive.
It would take a very proud ,arrogant and foolish person to openly boast that God hadnt spoken to Him when he had .
God commands His Children who know His Voice, to love everyone and not to pass judegment ,therefore some great questions ( like yours) Im happy to leave in "Gods Basket"
Now you are the first person who I have seen that says the Holy Spirit is that still small voice------YES!! Everyone has it--everyone. And yes I agree when we don't listen to it we are lead to something we should not have done---then you could call that cause and effect=learning in this life of the law of attraction. Was it a bad choice--possibly, but we then go on to learn that a single choice dictates the path we are on. Does that keep us out of heaven or shoves us further away form God---NOT at all.
The Kngdom of God is WITHIN US---not in a building and you can't get there from another person who claims they know God better, nor can you get it from a book---Jesus says that in that Book.
Now as far as Satan----------he was the most beautiful of Angels and God made him tht way. Wouldn't it make Satan a part of God too and as such would Satan not want to b in God's good graces? We put our ways onto God and not vice versa. We have no idea what happened after God punished Satan-and even that is speculation because we as humans tend to think that because Satan was beautiful and it got Satan in trouble then we equate beauty and the body as sin when it is not at all. Satan was one instance and not all instances of beauty and the body.
I believe God said that everything he made was good---and he did not make any exceptions. He also sid that we are made in THEIR likenesses and images, and that would be part of him----so we cannot NOT be part of him ever!
Satan may have asked for forgiveness after spending time ---supposedly ---on earth. Not everything is in that Bible--it even says that.
If You love then you cannot have room for Satan and if you love you have God and Jesus in you---well that is wher the Kingdom of God is--WITHIN YOU, then where is Satan? Is he in a trees or the grass or the rivers or lakes? Has anyone really seen him? What does he look like? All we know from what the Bible says is that he was beautiful--now that is even speculation because then you have to find out what is beauty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder--the kingdom within you.
But Quran has to say on that:
“And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis (Satan). He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.
And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.
But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time.
Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.
We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein” Chapter: 2, verses: 30, 39)
Adam and Eve disobeyed God. They repented and asked forgiveness. This is human nature
Satan disobeyed God. He didn’t ask forgiveness because he was arrogant. This is Satan’s nature.
Thank you for those verses.
So arrogance is realy the sin-hmmmmalot of christians fit this attitude.....
Arrogance is a sin and it becomes a greater sin when a person shows arrogance against God. One who shows arrogance follows the path of Satan.
“Hath not man seen that We have created him from a drop of seed? Yet lo! he is an open opponent. And he hath coined for Us a similitude, and hath forgotten the fact of his creation, saying: Who will revive these bones when they have rotted away? Say: He will revive them Who produced them at the first, for He is Knower of every creation, (Chapter: 36, Verse: 77-79)”
If Satan exists and if he has asked for forgiveness?If he hasnt he will.He is also a child of the light and will go back to God his home .
Dearest Lady Guinevere,
Since the BIBLE is the undisputed WORD of the LIVING GOD and you mentioned that you would not believe Scripture you really tie both my hands behind my back. But, I do believe in keeping hope alive, so ..... here goes, Satan had his chance to believe in JESUS CHRIST, but he chose to entice Judas to betray JESUS CHRIST, he also further corrupted the hearts of the high priests, scribes, pharisees, and others to crucify JESUS CHRIST instead of the known murderer, Barabbas, anywaysssssssssssss! He had his opportunity, a chance of a lifetime, to offer repentance to JESUS CHRITST when JESUS CHRIST was driven into the wilderness by the HOLY SPIRIT to be tempted by him. But, instead of repenting, Satan utilized his opportunity/position to follow his own corrupted and evil desires to try and tempt the SAVIOIR! Lady Guinevere, GOD is a good GOD and would that all be saved through the way HE provided, through HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST. HE showed mercy by allowing Satan to remain until the judgement; seeing the angels who left their former domain, GOD have placed in chains of darkness until the judgement. Don't worry about Satan. Worry about yourself, Scripture tells us to work out your own soul's salvation.
Welcome to the forum. I am a believer, and agree with you. However, don't expect too much "sympathy" from many who post here. I have (for all intents and purposes) finished commenting on this thread for that reason.
I am AMAZED at the variety of ideas on this and many other "religion" topics. Keep reading, you'll see what I mean
So what both of you re saying is that we have no choice in taking Satans's temptations and we blame our actions on him. When did Judas not have a choice and why do you think he did such things. Didn't he have a choice in his actions and wasn't he soley responsible for doing as he did? Where is our own responsibility in our choices? It seems prettylame to blame every wrong action we as humans take on someone else and then go back and say that it was God who helped make our good decisions. That's a cop out!!!
There ya go--The Devil Made Me do It!!! Tis true irresponsibility on the humans' part!
RE Coput, yes and no.
Yes, to the extent that I had no (known) choice to be born. Now that I AM born, I am born into "sin", NO CHOICE.
As for my life-choices, I DO have a choice, to either act on his (satan's) lies/deception, or not. But even that requires knowledge of the Word of God, to know it IS a lie/deception.
How can a person not act on satan's promptiongs if he/she does not recognise what it is.
So who's to blame in that instance?
Forgive your enemies or love your enemies has to do with humans not demons. Our battle is not against flesh and blood but against principalities. Demons can't be redeemed by the blood of jesus. Only we can because we have an earthly body. Demons don't have earthly bodies like we do. They have power to come In human form but not actual flesh and blood . Only an imitation of it.
Because Gods word is true. Its In the scriptures. God is not man that he should lie or the son of man to repent. Thats how I know.
And don't say "because it's in the bible". I've heard that tired old argument too many times and you can prove nothing by it.
You are In error for not knowing the scriptures.-matt. 22:29. Read also 2 tim 3:16-17, and 2 peter 1:20-21. Look it up In the bible.
I don't care what a 2'000 year dead savage has to say on the matter. I asked how you know it's true. Now answer it in your own words, stop relying on dead people to answer it for you.
Unless you can't?
My friend, God is not the God of the dead but of the living. Gods word is alive. I know this to be true because of my own personal relationship with Jesus Christ through faith In him. Jesus is still alive.
Then why must you rely totally in the writings of those who have been dead for close to 2,000 years? Why can you not show this 'living god' yourself, instead of quoting the dead? Remember, the devil can quote scripture when it suits his ends. How are you any different?
That doesn't tell me how you can be so certain, that it pertains to me in any way. It's your God not mine. So now you have to convince me, something you can't do with words alone. Where's your proof, beside there being so many followers. It's the 4th largest religion in the world, so why should I follow it? Would I not be better off following the first largest religion? Unless you can prove your argument, I don't see anything you have to say as vallid. If you spoke of it as metaphore, I might be more inclined to take you seriously.
So it is our earthly body that is redeemed? Satan is a Demon and a Demon is what in your opinion?
By Jesus blood we are redeemed. Jesus redeemed our body, soul, and spirit. Demons are fallen angels /evil angel spirits of rebellion.
God has not spoken to Satan for 1000 years
Why dose'nt God and Satan just kiss, make up and move on like people do
Save Satan or blame yourself first
Satan cannot be saved. He's condemned to goto the lake of fire forever. Satan refuses to submit to God cause of his pride to be worshiped as God. You can't blame me for that my friend ; )
That would require mindlessness which many would hesitate to venture there.
The Bible says that God knows the end from the beginning. Just like scriptures were written 400 years before Christ appeard on earth. God knows the heart and the book of Revelation proves that satan did not ask for forgiveness.
The verdict from God
12.4 “Enoch, scribe of righteousness. Go and inform the Watchers of Heaven, who have left the High Heaven and the Holy Eternal Place, and have corrupted themselves with women, and have done as the sons of men do and have taken wives for themselves, and have become completely corrupt on the earth.
12.5 They will have on Earth, neither peace, nor forgiveness of sin, for they will not rejoice in their sons.
12.6 The slaughter of their beloved ones they will see; and over the destruction of their sons they will lament and petition forever. But they will have neither mercy nor peace.”
13.1 And Enoch went and said to Azazel: “You will not have peace. A severe sentence has come out against you that you should be bound.
13.2 And you will have neither rest nor mercy, nor the granting of any petitions, because of the wrong which you have taught, and because of all the works of blasphemy and wrong and sin which you have shown to the sons of men.”
The “remorse” and shame of the fallen angels- request for forgiveness
13.3 And then I went and spoke to them all together, and they were all afraid; fear and trembling seized them.
13.4 And they asked me to write out for them the record of a petition, so that they might receive forgiveness, and to take a record of their petition up to the Lord in Heaven.
13.5 For they were not able, from then on, to speak, and they did not raise their eyes to Heaven, out of shame for the sins, for which they had been condemned.
13.6 And then I wrote out the record of their petition, and their supplication in regard to their spirits, and the deeds of each one of them, and in regard to what they asked; that they should obtain absolution and forbearance.
13.8 And behold a dream came to me, and visions fell upon me, and I saw a vision of wrath; that I should speak to the sons of Heaven and reprove them.
13.9 And I woke up and went to them, and they were all sitting gathered together as they mourned, in Ubelseyael, which is between Lebanon and Senir, with their faces covered.
See Satan did ask for forgiveness but God said no, question closed
Satan loved God so much, probably more than anyone of us would ever be able to in this life. But one thing Satan did that spoiled it for him. He wanted to highlight his separation from God. He wanted to stress the fact that he is an entity of his own. He felt his own self and was happy to be. This means, he was happy to be separate from God. That is why he asked for things. He asked to be elevated to high positions. He asked for things that felt good to himself. All of this highlighted his separation from God. The worse is the more he subconsciously sensed that separation, the more he became insecure in his relationship with God. He started to get possessive and jealous. His love for God was, in his mind, growing bigger and bigger, but what it was growing in reality was the fear to share the love of God with someone else. More and more, he wanted God all for Himself. In a nut shell, Satan wanted to be himself as a separate entity, but at the same time wanted God to be his own, rather than the other way round.
When God created the human being, that was the tip of the ice burg for both.
For satan, it was a big, unexpected shock. He didn’t know what was happening to him. He was swept by a huge and tremendous wave of jealousy which trigged a powerful rage of hate and disdain to this unworthy creature of mud who was now going to share the love of God.
He picked up a strop and displayed so much control, trying to manipulate God into making Him change His mind, but he couldn’t. God wasn’t happy with the way things were with Satan for quiet a while but He was now really angry with him. Suddenly, Satan felt he lost God and His love for him forever. He was angry with God. Offence and hate started creeping. As soon as they did, Satan found himself sliding down in an endless pit of extreme, unimagined amount of fear, despair and remorse.
In that pit, one can’t think logically. Because to think in the Truth, you need a degree of clarity. And to have clarity of mind, you need a degree of calm. To feel calm, you need a degree of comfort. To feel comfort you need a degree of love within. But Satan’s love was detached of him all of sudden when he replace it by its opposite. Without it, all he can feel is hate, and actually an aversion for love! Which means his nature has changed irrevocably to a nature that is disgusted by the feeling of love and which only seeks all the category of negative feelings (all the shades of grey).
Why Satan would never ask for God’s forgiveness?
Because he is not in a position to want to do it. The extreme love that he used to feel for God was replaced by extreme feeling of hate and loathing. He would rather rot in Hell then do anything that can bring him near to God for he hates him so much. What he enjoys instead is all the evil world that you can and can’t imagine, impacted on others and even maybe on himself.
Being in Hell, changes the nature of everyone else as well. Once an individual is in there, s/he are deprived of the love of God for eternity. It’s not that God wants to punish them. God Himself is Love. But He can’t be love (= Heaven) and hate (= Hell) at the same. So, when God who is love, doesn’t reach physically (since He has a spiritual physicality), to a certain place, then there is no love at all in that place. When there is no love at all anywhere, there is Hell. This could be explained by the duality of light and darkness. When light doesn’t reach a place physically, there is no light but darkness.
I hope this helps.
Whether or not they can ask is irrelevant. What does matter is that satan and demons can not be forgiven because the Bible says that hell and the lake of fire were made for satan and his demons. To believe that satan could be saved is either to say that God is not ALL knowing or that God built a place for satan even though He knew that satan would never be there...which makes Him wastefull.
Christians tell me the best thing about their Religion is forgiveness. That must be the greatest lie, because Christians do not forgive you if your non Christian, they never forgive Satan and in hell you never learn any lessons.
Yet , some one like Hitler if he beg to God with all his heart to be forgiven, he has a chance for heaven.
I will never understand Christianity.
How can God forgive satan, when he sinned, and the penalty for sin is (eternal) death?
Hell was created for satan, and his angels. His fate is already sealed.
But, just to play along with the concept, saying that He can forgive, What was the purpose of Jesus' death on the cross? If it were not for the atonement of sin (ours) then there was NO NEED for Him to go through it. He took the punishment that (our) sin deserves. "that we might become the righteousness of God, in Him"
Why would God create something that could go against him in the first place? The Angels are Gods mesengers and that is why he made them. If you are going to bring Jesus isnto it for dying for our sins then you must also bring n the Flood supposedly drowning all evil in the world.............did evil just all of a suddent come back from thin air??
Why wouldn't Satan be able to ask for forgiveness? If he could think that he was more beautiful then the Gods, then he could also ask for forgiveness.
I have also wondered that myself, kind of like an oops....I came to the thought that our God is a God of LOVE. He does not have love he is LOVE. He has no fear, hate or anything evil. The Bible states that iniquity was FOUND in lucifer. The only way he could become like-God was to be opposite.
PS. It would be a miscarriage of justice if He did forgive.
It's like so many people that have lost loved ones to murder, they want and need to see justice done, by appropriate punishment carried out upon the guilty.
Satan is referred to as "a liar, and a murderer from the beginning" Jesus speaking. He shoulf know!
Jesus said that Satan is a Liar........hmmmmm/ Seeking justice is of man, not God. He knows everything andhe can wipe anyone out that he wanted to without a reason if he wanted too.
How would you ever know if Stand did ask for forgivenenss and God did grant it to him-that is not in the Bible.
Cause and effect and life lessons are involved in murder and such............
There is no hope for Satan. God has spoken and it will be so.
I doubt it. He's too proud.
Besides, he is so stupid, he still thinks he can defeat God.
That must be so funny to see two unknown quantities fighting..
Now who told you that Satan was stupid?
You say that Satan is connning and goes arund stealing peoples souls and doing all kinds of evil things and fooling us to believe he is God or Jesus and then the next statment I see is he's stupid. ??????????????
Oh Yeah. Stupid!
The "created" being, is going to take on (and supposedly) defeat the one Who created him!
Especially, taking into account that he (only) has 1/3 to fight against the 2/3.
But then, in the book of revelation, we see (one angel) Michael, chain him(satan) and throw him into the "bottomless pit" (whatever that is). ( I think it's a form of solitary confinement, but that's just me)
"Stupid" still sytands!
Oh that's right, Money! I forgot some of us think we have free will....geez, I forgot my sin is just as bad as the next dude too. So I guess maybe I have a choice to tone my sins down and not rebel against God???
Isn't sin rebellion against God anyway? Heck dude....if you believe some sins are less than others in God's eyes...read the Bible. We sinned, our sin is equal to rebellion against God, which in every sense of the word, no matter how you will undoubtedly twist this to mean what you want it to, is ripping God of His rightful throne.
But again, you will disagree with me because of nothing I said. Of course you have the free will to do that...LOL
t.keeley you and maestrowhit both seem to be just here to try to pick fights with the Christians that come to this forum. So after this post I'll be passing on your posts as well.
Yes you do have the free will to believe this quote of yours below if you so choose but I wouldn't if I were you.
All sin is wrong. But there are sins that are greater than others. It's written in scripture.
So what separates your sin from anyone elses? I'm still waiting on your view on that issue. Otherwise I'm just being sarcastic with you, it was a long day at work and I probably should vent elsewhere.
I really just want to know what separates people's sins into categories? Why is pride any worse than thievery? All sin is rebellion and rebellion wants different routes than God.
to ask forgiveness is a free will choice and an understanding and acceptance of: admittance of wrongdoing and need for forgiveness.
The Enemy- satan made a conscious choice to rebel which is a sin. The Enemy refuses to acknowledge the need for forgiveness. And I do not know if it is possible for the Enemy to be forgiven as the Enemy will not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour... This acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Saviour is a crucial aspect of forgiveness of sin And if you're gonna quote the Qu'ran, to be fair, the Bible should also be allowed in the discussion. Ok?
I agree with bringing all books into this discussion and that of other belief systems! Christianity is NOT the only way to God for even in the Bible Jesus states that the Kingdom of God is WITHIN you no in a book or in a church or in a tree or a flowers, but WTHIN YOU. Why does Chrisitianity gloss over that very aspect of what Jesus says?
So if God made Satan and He CHOSE to disobey God then because God also made us do we have the choice to rebell against him when in the Bible is clearly states that we cannot because in God's Kingdom Satan is not----and if God's Kingdom is WTHIN us then ther is no Satan there and we don't have to worry about him. He can't touch us. He will not go against anything of God and we ARE of GOD. So Satan can't be annymore a threat to us and we cant sin because we have the kingdon within us. God knows us---period and he loves us---period and we have no choice but to love him---it's in our genes!
There's a staunch difference between prideful and stupid. Have fun outsmarting the second highest being in the universe. I'd love to see that debate. Oh, and God would just be in the audience. I want an all-out mortal human vs. highest angel battle...no hold bar.
Oh that would be fun to watch! It would be like Godzilla versus some other monster!!!! LOL
I think this (future) battle is called "Armageddon", in the book of Revelation. You just might get to witness it. Who knows! We are closer to it than when John wrote it.
aka-dj you will not be doing the fighting in Armageddon. That I promise you. You'll be represented, but the battle I signed up to watch was one between only you and the devil, mono y mono. Apparently where I said "God is a member of the audience" didn't hit home or something. No one other than God stands a chance against Lucifer, period. If you think you do, I'd love to see you try your muscle on him.
By the way, I am not expecting this epic battle of Armageddon....at least not in the literal sense. But if you're pre-trib I know where you're coming from, it still won't do you any good to argue that you'll be doing the fighting unless for some reason your interp of Daniel/Revelation reasons that you pick up a sword with YHWH. Highly unlikely though...
You are right, I will not be fighting! I don't expect to.
My fight is the fight of faith. The same Bible tells me that satan is already a defeated foe, and he's under my feet.
aka-dj, no doubt he's defeated, I'm just not as convinced it's a literal battle to "the death." I know there's an end to the war, don't get me wrong I'm not defending him here, but he's not stupid. He's -- if anything -- the smartest creature in the universe. Master of science, history, arithmetic, physics, literature...you name it. He's prideful, yes. Stupid is not a word in his vocabulary.
I think he is.
It may not be the best choice of words, but hey, I explained why I said it.
All these other things are true, and I don't disagree, that he's cunning, deceptive, lier etc.
And I do believe that the battle will be "literal".
Right, I know you believe that it's literal, I merely wanted to clarify my opinion differs. Sorry you couldn't find a better word...there are thousands to choose from. I just think calling the second most intelligent entity in history "stupid" is as pridefully mislead as his rebellion against God in the first place. It's just...not fitting. Give the devil his due...I think that's the old saying. His due will be eternity in the lake of fire, designed by God for him, but til then he's probably the last thing you want to underestimate.
I do believe even Christians can be deceived into thinking they are protected on this earth from satanic powers. There are different stories to support that, some personal some not, but Mikeq7 has a LOT to say on demons. It's worth reading up on
The Bible actually tells us that Satan is wise and subtle. Wiser than Daniel even.
I feel that it's all too lightly people poke jest at the devil, that's all. The Bible says nothing like "mock satan, etc.", it does say to flee temptation.
A great biblical anecdote is the story of the brothers who thought it was cute to cast demons out in God's name, yet failed. I don't think they were all that protected from the evil being. I think that story speaks for itself that when taken lightly, demons are even more powerful than when taken seriously.
Here's another thought for you.
Without people, satan, or demons don't have any power at all.
Satan's only (real ) power is deception. So, all he can do is deceive one person, and "use" that person to do his (dirty)work. Even the man in the story you related, casting out the demon, was attackedby "the man". NOT, by the demon, (directly).
This makes no sense aligned with the Bible or reality. I think the Bible has a lot to say about spiritual wars, and even if God has selaed the win, it hasn't stopped the other side from thinking they can...out of pride, not stupidity.
And as far as the "devil made me do it" in another post here, I believe 99% of our wrongdoing comes from our own sinfulness. Devil doesn't even have to try to make you do anything, we do a good job ourselves at rebelliion.
I have heard that argument before, but in the end it really comes down to "temptation" which is just the "Devil made me do it" repackaged after much guilt and confession.
It's all quaint.
In the end Satan really is just rebellion against God's authority when you strip away the metaphor, and God is just authority from the priesthood in one form or another. Anyone who thinks they know better than "God" is "God's adversary" or "Anti-Christ" if they don't care for "God". The Old Testament is really easy to pick apart when you look at the metaphors and read between the lines .
The Tree of Good and Evil is merely making Moral Judgments about right and wrong without God's permission by eating of the "fruit" of curiosity and that results in the sin known as Pride. God's permission is a metaphor for authority figures whose judgment should be obeyed and respected in the name of the Lord whose Priesthood or Ministerial Presbytery they allegedly represent.
The Bible is the best political warfare manual on how to setup a power structure ever written, but that hardly means it contains serious truths. Just look at the result of belief in chapter after chapter of old and new testament. Whole towns and cities in the Old Testament were leveled and every Man, Woman, and Child along with the animals was put to the sword in the name of the same "God" who allegedly more clearly revealed himself in the person of "Jesus". It doesn't surprise me this same phenomenon got repeated in the Crusades and is being even repeated now against Muslims. Some people on the right finally came out this election cycle and admitted that "Muslims are our enemies". That's only one example of what happens when people take the whole process literally...
There are three power structures, Religion, Corporations, and Government. Understanding how they operate is key to understanding how people work. Even Reinhold Niebuhr suggests something like this when he contends that "God" and "Jesus" could be powerful metaphors as opposed to actual literally existing beings, as the only real viable reason for believing in them as metaphors would be power given the authority context they almost always reside in.
Btw Keeley, if you want to test out my idea about power structures then one thing you might do is go through the book of Exodus and read it from the perspective of Moses creating illusions so he could gain power in the eyes of the people (not that it's purely that simple). Everything will click like the pieces of a puzzle. It works well in the books talking about Ahab and Jezebel too (Chronicles?).
"Satan's only (real ) power is deception." How about self-deception. Do you all ever take any responsibility upon yourselves, or is it always the devil made me do it?
THAT is a very good question. I have found that christians tend to blame others for their own actions or reaction they get back down the line. They need to think of how they got that reaction and not what is an easy out lie The Devil Mad Me Do It!
I believe that true Christ followers dont blame others or situations, no freedom there. It all comes down to making decisions, right ones and wrong ones. How else are we going to learn, sometimes it is not enough just to be told. Then after the experience comes the process; did we learn? Bottom line, "the devil did not make me do it" but I chose it. Its that free will our Father gave to us. In my world of faith it is all good because it is all God! I'd like to say I am a follower of Christ, not in a religion but in a relationship. Religion is way too confining, and disqualifies too many. In this relationship we have total freedom as it all comes down to faith in whose we are; just mind boggling when your identity is revealed. Hey man, you are all my sisters and brothers, peace and love to all:).
Here you all go, Find out all about Satan:
The only real Satanists are the Setians, aka Temple of Set started by Michael Aquino. They are more of a cult as far as I can tell.
Most people usually take H.P. Lovecraft's work The Necronomicron and try to impute Satanism onto it, and the funny thing about that is that the book is just a work of fiction made by an author who spent some serious time in an Asylum and wrote some awesome works as a result of going through hard times.
Anyone who takes it seriously needs to check themselves into a hospital or see a psychiatrist and I think that would go for believers too who think the book is some kind of Satanist manual.
All you got to do is read the title to the link lady G provided on satan; people do not realize that our words are taking us somewhere; they direct. Ever heard "sticks and stones hurt my bones but words can never hurt me"....that is a bunch of bull and a lie...because words can kill you if you meditate on them long enough..".life and death is in the power of the tongue"...there is no middle ground here!
To simplify my thoughts for you,I see satan as "doomed" for eternity. If God "chooses", or "chose" to forgive him, that's His business. However, the bible clearly states the former.
As for "the devil made me do it", idea, I agree with you. It's a copout, because we have a choice to NOT do what he says. The trouble is, our "flesh" can be a VERY strong voice, in "causing us" to do wrong. So, instead of saying, "I did it (whatever) because I wanted/decided to", we blame him. That just sums up typical human nature.
Satan is a spirit being who was once one of three leading angels at God's throne, Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:11-19. Could he be forgiven no because I doubt that he will ever admit his guilt and repent of all the wickedness he hasaused humans here on earth.
Jesus tookour sins on himself to destroy the works of Satan the devil here on earth. When Jesus returns all our sinns will be put back on Satan's head where they belong, See Leviticus 16:20-22 and Leviticus 23:26-32. Also see Revelations 20:1-3,7-10. Satan is a spirit or angel who willbe put in place where he wil no longer be available of to cause trouble in God's coming Kingdom, Revelations 12:9.
What's with this God's Kingdoms within us comment constantly. God's Kingdom is called "Heaven" and soon to be earth after he cleans house after satans lease runs out.
Yes, lady G...the Kingdom of God is within us. It is a lifestyle not a place. Heaven is a place just like earth is.The BIble states that the earth was given to us...God's offspring. So in order for Him to get things done on earth in this atmosphere of time, He has to work through us.This is why things are taking so long, his people are not awaken to their identity, they are identfying with fractured humanity instead of their true self which is spirit; but today we are living in a different generation. His power comes from within and then out, not the other way around. It comes straight from Heaven the invisible world and we are to change the atmosphere with it. Yes, He is God and He could zap it all away at once; however, it is written that God cannot lie or change, He is a just God even to satan and there are spiritual laws that were set in motion until the fullness of time is complete. Heaven is the parent realm of earth, so much bigger and better than we can ever imagine with so much more to do!
I have some more info on Satan:
The Fallen Archangel
The War in Heaven The Fallen Archangel
The Fallen Watchers - Grigori Why they Chose to Fall?
The Sin of the Fallen Angels The Punishment
The name "Lucifer" means "Light Giver" or "Light Bearer".
Light giver referring to the morning or evening star, Venus. Actually the name meant to mean the "Brightest Star".
That later was translated to "Eosphorus" (Greek word for Morning Star) and finally to Lucifer. In mythology he is the son of Aurora (the Roman personification of dawn) and the father Ceyx (Greek). Contrary to popular belief, Satan and Lucifer are two separate fallen angels. His banishment was because of his complete egotism and pure malice -- his sin, pride. This then indicates that Lucifer, not Satan was indeed the first angel to have sinned. Lucifer has been equated to Satan due to the misreading of the passage Isaiah 14:12 that was applied to the King of Babylon --
http://www.steliart.com/angelology_fall … angel.html
Thanks for this information lady Lady Guinevere.
True everything comes from the Light or God and will go back to God.
And your point is??
Satan means adversary. Lucifer became "the" adversary, when "iniquity was found in him".
They are one and the same being.
At least in my bible.
You need to read up on the website for those answers or questions. I c't copy the whole thing here--that would be an infringement of their copyright!
Hi Lady Guinevere. If in doubt it's best to let the Bible be your source for proof. Instead of reading just the one verse, Isaiah 14:12 you might want to read a few verses before and after. Say from Isaiah 14:11-20. Then if you compare those verses in Isaiah 14 to both Revelations 12:7-10 and Revelations 20:1-3 I'm sure you'll find that you can't come to any other conclusion than Lucifer and Satan are the same. No God can't forgive Satan cause he seduced the nations.
Why when some of it isn't even correct in the translations. I believe in my heart and that is wehre Jesus is. Not in Satan because only those who cannot hear Jesus and his words and works only beleive in that. It's a pitty when all the Bible says is spread love and the only ones who do are the ones who hear his words in their hearts and the ones who cannot or will not are the ones that sling about all this fear. There is only a Satan if you believe in one-period!!
Some things that some people here are not ready for, but I will plant the seeds as I am told...............................................
""We begin our long evolutionary journey as evolving ‘Sparks of Spirit’, created out of and as a part of our Creator's own Being, particles of His own Spirit and Thought Force. Each newly created Spark of Spirit near the Godhead in time becomes the "Parent" of an extension soul of themselves, and thus the originator of an extended "family" of closely inter-related soul units. This "family" relationship with its original "Higher-Self" soul allows for a close inter-connection between the higher planes and the lower planes of existence. There is also a continuous sharing of experience, not only from lower levels up to the highest, but also from the higher level down to the lowest. The higher level intuitive advice passed down to the physical level helps prevent individual souls from becoming enmeshed in any one particular area of evolution and thus losing an overall sense of direction. The "Higher Self" continually tries to keep its 'family members' on the correct path of evolution.
And so we have the establishment of an elevated group of ‘Oversouls’, also known to us as our ‘Higher Self" or the ‘I Am Presence’. Each of these Higher-Selves is then allowed to create or birth a further group of 12 ‘Prime Soul-Extensions’ so as to extend the experience life on worlds nearest to the Spiritual Light Plane. Then these 12 Prime Soul-Extensions are themselves each allowed to create a further group of twelve souls, or ‘lower soul-extensions’, for experience on yet denser worlds. Thus there can finally arise a total 'Family Soul Group' of up to 144 closely related ‘Soul Mates’, all linked to the same "Higher Self".
This Soul Group of 144 will not all be incarnating together at the same time, or on a particular vibration-level or dimension, but instead may be manifested throughout a Galaxy on many other dimensional levels or planets. However, all the individual members of these groups, under their collective ‘Higher-Self’, will remain linked throughout their long evolutionary journeys as a group of related Soul-Mates, often incarnating in a particular world with one another as life-partners or friends, or as members of an extended family.
The Higher-Self ‘oversoul’ must nonetheless always observe the fundamental Laws of Karma which require that we all fully experience the cause-effect relationship between each of our actions and its results. Thus the Higher Self will always respect the self-determination or free will of each of the separately individualized lower soul-extensions. The High Self will only help when directly asked for assistance, and will never interfere to alleviate those hard lessons that each soul must learn for itself.
As the soul-extensions then descend into the lower worlds of materiality (e.g Planet Earth), they further develop their inherent split into the two major polarities of positive and negative; each expressing more and more forcibly the male (positive, outgoing active force) or the female (negative, returning/in-going, nurturing force) polarity. This is part of the Creator’s Plan; to provide the soul with a deeper balance between the two major polarities of Creation, and provide a strong impetus for each soul to return to the Unity of the Godhead. Thus, two ‘Twin Souls’ or ‘Twin Flames’, are created as part of one spirit at the highest level, and remain forever as eternally joined parts of one soul-extension. After descending and ascending through the Cycle of Evolution together, they are eventually destined to re-unite at the end of their long evolutionary journey, as one complete and androgynous Being (that is to say, united male/female), and yet they shall forever also be two souls-in-one and even retain an element of their two polarities as well as their individualities.
Each individual Twin-Soul, endowed during its descent into matter with a predominantly male or female polarity, thus acts as a balancing force to the other; one featuring an inherently forceful male/active/positive/outgoing characteristic, the other with a more receptive/nurturing/spiritualized/in-going female characteristic. This inherent division into two opposite, but magnetically attractive polarities, not only provides the necessary impetus towards a later re-unification of these two souls, but also promotes a desire within all individualized souls to seek unity with all other souls, and thus their eventual return to the collective Unity of the Godhead. As their evolution progresses, the Twin-Souls gradually learn to develop a greater balance between their two polarities or genders.
A confusion of sexual identity
Sometimes a Twin-Soul will switch gender for one particular incarnation in a physical world in order to learn from the inherent qualities of the other gender polarity. This explains the varying difficulties of sexual identity which many people experience down here on Earth, after they have in fact chosen on the spiritual planes to incarnate into an Earth body of an opposite and ‘unaccustomed’ gender. For instance, a soul of predominately female characteristics, when incarnating into a male body, will by nature be more attracted to the opposite sex, that is, another male. Likewise, a predominately male soul incarnating as a female, will most likely be seeking the close intimacy of the opposite polarity of attraction, another female. The sex-changes that many people have felt a strong urge to make through an operation, exhibit a more extreme example of this unaccustomed position of opposite gender.
Thus the Twin-Souls learn to balance the positive (male), out-going/forceful, with the negative (female), receptive/nurturing quality of their polarities. The masculine positive energy is thrusting and active. The feminine negative energy is receiving and acceptive. Both are equally necessary to achieve life. One cannot operate without the other. They will then eventually be in a position to become totally re-united as balanced parts of a united androgynous (male/female) soul, although they will each, as part of a greater united being, still retain a certain individually and an element of their original polarity.
When one Twin-Soul incarnates on a lower physical-level planet such as Earth, the other usually remains behind on a higher plane in order to provide a nearby spiritual connection with the higher world. There are occasions, however, when Twin-Souls do arrange to meet and share together an incarnation at the physical level, such as whilst undertaking an important joint mission on Earth. At such times, unless they have chosen to be born as close relatives or twins in the same household, the time and place of their first meeting on the dense physical level is always pre-viewed and pre-arranged on the Spiritual Plane. And so when they first meet on Earth, they often experience a feeling of instant and deep ‘love at first sight’, intuitively remembering their old love connection as well as recognizing their meeting place pre-arranged on the spiritual level. Such a ‘coming together’ forever touches a fundamental note of human longing amongst all of us, and is frequently featured in many of the romantic love stories of the earth plane.
Even when we may not be destined to meet our Twin Soul or Twin Flame down here on Earth, it is possible that we may instead experience a very close association with one of our own Soul-Mates, a member of our larger Soul Group. We may also quite likely have been closely associated with that particular Soul-Mate in a past incarnation, either as a former family member or as a close friend during a previous Earth experience.
The Higher Self
During the long evolutionary cycle, when souls descend into the lower worlds of 'matter' and then rise up again, the Higher-Self remains on the highest spiritual level, constantly accumulating and recording all the evolutionary experiences gained by those evolving soul-extensions on lower levels. This accumulated knowledge is then accessible back to them via the Higher-Self as an inner voice of conscience, always there to assist them in taking the correct course appropriate for their further development.
We can, therefore, with intent and suitable training, obtain access to all this accumulated spiritual knowledge via our Higher-Self, simply by turning our thoughts inwards in quiet contemplation and seeking a connection with our ‘I Am Presence’.
This store of evolutionary knowledge and abilities accumulated by the Higher Self also provides each of the lower incarnated souls with a background of traits, talents and abilities acquired during previous lives. This continuity of development and attainment explains why some people are born on Earth with unusually exceptional natural talents, such as in the field of healing or science, or perhaps as a scientific genius or musical child-prodigy.
The end of deception
As you advance further into the higher vibrations you will develop open communication with your own higher selves. At first this will appear as an increased connection to source. Everyone will develop more open communication culminating with a full connection to your own Higher Selves. In time you will be able to tap into the thoughts of each other through each other's higher selves. After a period of humorous adjustment, you will find this to be a great strength. When each one can see clearly the real motivations behind actions, there will be true understanding and compassion. This will leave no room for deception. Also misdirections of energy such as war will no longer be possible. The energy you are now walking into will bring possibilities you can not yet imagine. You are at the juncture of bringing the reality of "Home" down to your side of the veil.
To further guide and watch over us during our incarnations here on Earth, each of us has various Guides and Guardian Angels working from the Spiritual Worlds. At birth, our Guardian Angels keep a particularly close watch over us when we first incarnate into the physical body, especially up to the age of seven. Young children, whose etheric sight is usually still functioning, are indeed often able to see their Guardian Angels as they stand over them, protecting and guiding them.
A Guide may also be gaining some useful additional evolutionary learning experiences by watching our life and learning from our lessons.
However, whilst our Guardian Angels and our Guides are ready to advise and assist us at all times, there are two fundamental qualifications to this help. Firstly: they will not normally interfere unless we ask directly for their help; they must always respect our free choice and thus not deprive us of the important lessons we have to learn ourselves.
Secondly: we should not assume that ‘whatever we ask will be given’, for we must remember that Higher Beings have a higher, wider vision, and they will not help us to do something which is not for our ‘highest good’. It could be so easy for us to feel, when our fervent prayers for help do not appear to be answered, that we have been 'let down'. But we should understand that the links between us and our Guides were formed and exist on the higher Soul level. At this level they know, and indeed we too recognize when we are visiting the higher planes in our sleep-time, what is best for our ‘highest good’.""
.......and there is more!!!
You can beleive in Stan if YOU want to, but I would rather believe in Jesus and HIS power to LOVE.
My sweet Lady G...I know you mean well. You say Jesus is in your heart but you deny him everytime you deny the existance of satan. You said that you will plant the seed, but I have to ask plant the seed for who. I do not know where you got all that info but it is not from the Bible. You just might be following the wrong Jesus that paul warned us about in scripture .
This love that you speak of is fractured and weak because it is human. We do not have the capacity to love as God. Humanity is a work in progress until the end of time, then this love will be who we are too; nothing missing/nothing broken; now that is something to look forward to!
So basically what you're saying is that YOUR interpretation of scripture is correct and anyone who sees it differently its wrong while you're simultaneously breaking one of Jesus' basic principles in Matthew 7. I see.
Here is a site that explains the Soul and all it's purpose and even our very lives and much more:
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~acc … heSoul.htm
I believe that God works from the end to the beginning, (like a dvd, you know the ending but you watch it anyway) so the battle is already won. These are the last days and Jesus king of kings and lord of lords will return and then reign for a 1,000 years in heaven.
He will be re-commissioned after this 1.000 years where there will be a new earth and will reign for eternity.
Satan is finished it has already been settled, however he wants to take as many people down with him as possible. That is why the world on the whole is getting worse, however there is always the Son the father and the holy spirit. It is too late for Satan and anyway he is unrepentant, however it is not too late for anybody to make Jesus their personal Lord and Saviour - Be Blessed in Christ's Name.
I believe you are right purefitness.
Although you might want to read this RELIGION VS THE BIBLE thread regarding the 1,000 year period.
To make this blunt. Do I believe that Satan WILL be redeemed? No, no I do not.
Do I believe that if God wanted to, and if it was/is in His will he could bring Satan back?
Err, this is where it gets tricky. Darned if you do, darned if you don't. If I say that I believe that God could do it, then I'd be accused of following Satan. If I say that God could NOT do it, then I'd essentially be calling God a weakling.
In the end it's completely up to God what he decides he wants to do, and there's really not a lot we can do about it.
No worries Evans, I forgave Satan and he told me that it's god's business to forgive. LOL.
New International Bible
Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
King James 2000 Bible
He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[ Luke 13:3 ]
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. ... Not at all! And you
will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God
Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell
There have been a number of the comments made here however I get the impression there are some people who want to treat God as nothing but love and one need only look around to some of the things God did to prove he is not strictly love; he destroyed Pharaoh soldiers chasing after Moses, he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, he created a worldwide flood, and why do some people celebrate the Passover because people were spared the touch of death.
It's a 2'000 year old dead story. Why do people take it so seriously?
I would say because no one has proven it to be only a story.
If God will forgive your trasngressions, given you accept the son. Why is suicide an unforgiveable sin? Why does God hate us enough to commit suicide in public, but not expect the same of humans?
He's a very double standard God, not one that I'd look up to.
A saccrifice of the self, could be construde as a form of suicide. Whether for valiant reasons or not, suicide is still suicide. Does the term suicide mission mean nothing to theists?
Logically he did not or could not even if he tried to, nail himself to the cross. Therefore it cannot be construed as suicide. Murder yes but not suicide in my view.
A saccrifice of the self, wether by proxy or not, is still saccrificing the self. A form of suicide.
If indeed sacrifice is what occurred. Sacrifice is a perspective that the writer chose. Was it reality or merely a perspective?
Perspective indeed. The author was correct in assuming it was the highest form of saccrifice, one of which holds much honor. But, How or why would I take his word for it, when he says he's the son of God? The Egyptian rulers said the same of themselve's, why would I take Jesus's word over their's?
Why sacrifice with honour? When it simply could have been that the powers that were at the time felt threatened by his philosophy and the many followers he was accumulating. So the powers that were could have decided to nail him to the cross and eradicate the threat. The ever so faithful followers then may have sensationalized the event by claiming Jesus died for our sins.
Yet sin supposedly still exists and invalidates this claim.
We all have different viewpoints. Experience or events will either validate or invalidate what we choose to believe. Others word or experience is worthless unless we have experienced something similar or something that confirms what we believe. However beliefs change. Experiences does not once we have had them except in the way we might perceive these experiences.
So taking anyone's word for it Egyptians or Jesus is a personal choice based on either what you hold to be true and or experience.
Suicide does not come from God. But is a work of the flesh and of the devil. Suicide is murder which God forbids. It's demonic.
Wow, you made a good point about the suicide thing. And then one can kill somebody and ask for forgiveness and he will be forgiven. But kill yourself how do you ask for forgiveness when you're dead....now that does not sound fair...BUT THE BIBLE SAYS THAT GOD IS A JUST God. He knows our heart and if you have His heart right at the moment of death He will be there to take you home, no second guessing on that.
If you're talking about a sacrifice Jesus made on the cross as suicide you consider this written in the Bible ' no greater love has a man for his friend then to lay down his life for that friend.'
Do we not do that when we send our young men and women into combat for this nation?
God can forgive transgressions but in doing so we also promised to change what we're doing.
If you're following orders, it's not suicide, it's stupid. Why would I die for a politician, that wouldn't know my name otherwise?
And dying for a friend is galantry, not so much suicide. Now... If God knew we were going to aweful, sinful, hateful, unworthy creatures, why the saccrifice? Why stop at Noah? Why not just create it the way it was intended to be? Why let it continue? Why go through the son to get to the father?
None of it makes sense to the logical mind.
and... Adam and Noah were allowed to have incest too and were not killed for that by God
Agg hhagg sorry a reflex
Jesus gave his life for us as a martyr. Not suicide. The two are for different reasons.
Read the above statement.
Jesus never really talked about hell, that we know of. It was all paul.
Since Jesus was so vague and did not write, will we ever know for sure
Yes, so all we have to go on is how others have perceived or understood him. Which could be why there are conflicting messages that arise from time to time. Married couples, friends or family, rarely understand each other wholly. It makes no sense then to take everything written as a given. Some of the authors are quite poetic and seem to inject their own personalities into what is written.
You are In error for not knowing the scriptures or the power of God. Jesus did talk about hell. If you haven't read the Gospels of christ thru his apostles and prophets then dont say anything. Cause your teaching a lie. Which makes you a liar.
Jesus did go to hell for a brief period of time, according to Acts 2:31 (Peter is quoting Psalm 16:8-11)
"He (King David) seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that HIS soul was not left in hell, neither flesh did see corruption." - Acts 2:31
According to Jesus Himself, He would "be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," Matthew 12:40,
"." - Luke 16:22-23.
You can find a Bible that highlight the words of God and Jesus. Get your information straight from the source. Don't count on third parties that ad their own sense of what God said or their nonsense of what God said. Which, by the way, ends up being a bunch of crazy lies.
So mathew, mark, luke an john are all first hand?
I thinks that's why they advocate meditating on the words or praying before reading the bible. Perhaps some person realized in our humanness divinely guided/inspired or God inspired call it what you will, can be tainted by our own perceptions. What we are able to comprehend then can only be confirmed from the source within.
Castle. Who did Adam and Noah have incest with?
I'm assuming it was Eve and her son since no one else is meant to have existed. Not sure about Noah though.
Penny this is news to me, I think you are referring to Gen.4:16,17. I can see where that might be confusing, but it does say Cains wife, I see nothing even remotely about Noah. No matter, I will definitely check this out.
Me too. It is written Cain took a wife from elsewhere... and this was mentioned on another thread. Possibly this one. That Cain took a wife when Adam and Eve were meant to be the origins of man wasn't understood. Because the bible does not record other men/humans being created at the same time. Which is why I think most think the relationships from mans creation were incestuous.
I think with Noah many have forgotten the three sons had their wives and the claim that the rest of humanity was wiped out the flood implied incestuous relationships with the cousins would have been a given to repopulate the world.
This is horrible demonized theory by those who do not know the language or Alahym. When Qyn/Cain was sent away and cursed, his mother did not go with him and Adam and Chuah/Eve did not have another child until after he was gone(verse25). There are things we do not understand. The Hebrew writings do indicate that Adam was the first man, but it was not the first time Yahuah had created man. Think about it, Qyn left and dwelt in the land of Nud/Nod (the land of fugitives/wanderers) but if there was a land of Nud, who named it that and how was it an established land when it was said to be the land of fugitives? What fugitives were already there? We do not know where Qyn got his woman from but it was not his mother or unborn sister. These tidbits were not necessaryly meant for you Penny, for you seem to have a better understanding, but for those who like to run away with something, do a little more research. No one is saying incest do not happen in the re-population of earth, but at least get it straight on who dunnit. Shalum
"If you haven't read the Gospels of christ thru his apostles and prophets then dont say anything."
Didn't Jesus walk and talk? Why would I have to depend on somebody telling what Jesus said. He could speak pretty well for himself. That's what I say! Third parties always get it wrong...and end up lying!
Secondhand, is not from the mouth. There is no gospel of Jesus, not from his own mind or pen. So then, it's all heresay.
The disciples and were witnesses of jesus because they walked with him and they wrote the gospels out if inspiration of the Holy Spirit. That told the disciples to write them down by inspiration. So that's why it is Gods word. You guys are antichrists. You always resist the Holy Spirit.
No. We resist presupositions and idiocy or intellectual suicide.
You guys are a waste of time. Those that hear Gods word are of God. Those that don't are not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist who works In the sons of disobedience. You hear them not cause your not of God but of your father the devil. He wad a liar from the beginning. Father, forgive them for they know not whay they do. The devil has deceived them into believing his kies. You guys need to Repent and seek the Lord while he maybe found....
First prove God exists, then I'll take your advice.
Nonto21 I already proved to you Gods existence with scriptures. But you still resist the truth. This is all a joke for you but God is not mocked my friend. I pray one day your eyes will be opened to the truth...
I will, Listen, God said if you dont belive I'm real, behold the former things, which means check history, so read the prophesy's in the bible then check, simple, you will come to the realisation that God is as real as you and me.
A) that's not true
B) that's not proof
C) have you read it?
that is true
yes it is proof
yes i have read it, why dont you see for yourself, go on .
its not proof, listen, if God says read the bible and check history then why dont you just do it and see for yourself, i dont like being called a liar, read daniel, then look at history and see which empire came in sequece, read the prophesy against tyre, the check what Alexander the Great did, he did exactly what the bible says to the letter. your problem is you cant be bothered so you deny God, you are basically too idle to do your own work.
Really? That's why I spent over 10 years studying the bible in the original languages?
Do you even know who you're talking to before opening your mouth?
God promised that the king of Babylon would destroy tyre and it would never be rebuilt. It didn't happen - and the city of tyre stands to this day - and it's one of the oldest cities constantly populated in the world.
Do you know what biblical prophecy is like? It's like saying "the sun is going to rise tomorrow" and then it rises. If, however, it said "the sun is not going to rise tomorrow" and it DIDN'T, then that would be something to take note of.
If I wake up tomorrow morning and proclaim that I am going to have steak for dinner, then I go into a restaurant and order steak and the waiter brings me steak, I have not just fulfilled a prophecy. I have proclaimed something - and then made it self-fulfilling.
The book of Daniel has been interpreted to mean different things by thousands of different people - and they all have different outcomes. You're picking and choosing prophecy and making it line up with historical events. Real prophecy can only be:
1) Specific - depicting only one possible fulfilling event
2) Not self-fulfilling
3) recognized as a prophecy with a clear meaning at the time it's delivered
biblical prophecy does not fit. Coming from someone who's studied it extensively for YEARS, you're way off of the mark.
Why do you ask?
If I told you who I was, you'd find you didn't want to know.
I was asking integrity because his/her post had 'you guys' in the paragraphs.
You might be surprised who I don't mind knowing. All good though whilst your very engaging, I don't mind you staying anonymous if that's what you choose.
Im talking about those who resist the truth of Gods word.
Im a christian. Im trying to help people here to see and hear the truth of Gods word. I'm not claiming to know it all because I don't. Only God the father knows all things. But what my Father has revealed to me In his word that I share.
Now. Prove your God exists.
Find me an example outside of the bible.
This is what is called "scientific method". Going into the field and gathering evidence, something you can't do with words alone.
Ok. First I'll use a scripture verse as a foundation to prove Gods word and existence to be truth. Then I will give you an example of it In scientific terms or common sense. Ok. In psalm ch. 19:1 says:"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth His handywork". Now bear with me to give you an illustration of this. Ok. Now then; For every design there is a designer. For example: Do the stars of heaven have a design? Y or N? Do the planets of heaven/space have a design? Y or N? Does the clouds of heaven/sky have a design Y or N? Now if you have common sense to these questions then your answer to all these questions is YES! They all have a design. Which means that they all have a designer. Right! Which conconcludes that there must be a creator. Thats not evolution my friend. That's intelligence involved. Right. Which concludes that there must be a Creator. Nothing evolved by itself but was specifically design by a designer. Who is this Designer?.. God. Read Genesis ch. 1 for yourself.
I said an example, outside of the bible.
You haven't helped your case, not in doing what I've asked you not to do.
Did you not read outside the bible example I gave? Are you thatblinded? I use the stars, planets, clouds as an example of Gods existence?.. Hello?..
Did I mention that I was a christian at one point?
That's why I asked that you find an example, outside of the bible.
But if you can't, why try?
Welcome to the forum,
You might want to slow down from calling people here Devils, Antichrists and Liars as I don't subscribe to this likeness in the first place. Some people might take it as an personal attack, lucky for you these guys do have thicker skin.
You are also putting down most of the world's population who also do not subscribe to the bible or who are not members of Christianity.
Have a very nice day.
You say you used to be a christian? So what happened?
Learning that other theists weren't as bad as I was lead to believe.
Well I've given you a natural answer to your question. I used scripture to back up the scientific answer to your question. So it's on you now. You playing to many games with me. It ends here. Your ignorant person.
Am I still on the piping hot meat hook, integrity 101?
I'm addressing integrity101, which let you off the hook by saying it ends here, Now I'm trying to get him as mad as hell at me, so I don't have to listen to his bible thumping attacks while holding my own integrity
Hey castlepaloma, im not wasting my time with you either. Both you and nonto21 are still resisting the Holy Spirit. I forgive you guys and I also ask for forgiveness of you too. I pray to God the Father that one day you will see the light of the truth. Which is Jesus Christ. Have a good night ; )
The problem with people like you is that you want to hear what suits you and not God. So its on you again ; )
Most people on earth resist or not even aware all together about the Holy spirit and you have got a lot of forgiving to do. If hold your light up to them too tight, they might burn.
We will all find out what the correct answer is in the spirit world, when we get there. We can only hope you don't get reincarnated as a sand crab
Integrity101 could also be turned into a jellyfish, without a backbone or brains.
A jellyfish is a perfect creature that holy bible will not support.
So much for the mask man that's called integrity, have a crabby day
I belielve God is science....and words alone is what proved to me that God does exist, aside from reading the Bible, hearing serons, and meditating on his word. The experience is etched in my spirit, I can quote the exact day and hour it started and stopped. from July 1, 2007 to July 10, 2008, I was woken up in the wee hours of the morning, couple times on the exact hour I was born (5:02 a.m.) . Within that year I was given 22 messages; most exciting thing that ever happened to me. It made me realize how much he really loves us for when we seek his face he manifests himself to us. This was tangible feelings of his presence and his words came as a small still voice deep inside my gut. He is always here and always speaking; most of the time we just cant hear, to busy, no time for him, but he still is here, and longs for a relationship, mostly for our benefit..
As a former nonbeliever, i come to realize that anyone who resists God has had trust broken by someone who was very close. When that happens it is very hard to believe in an invisible God, we are so use to going by what we feel and see, with our wounds as our guide.. When we put our trust in man we will always be let down, we let our own selves down. I have learned to put my trust in God, He is always a present help in time of need, ALWAYS!.......Love and peace to all.
That's not true. I'm an atheist who was a former Bible student and missionary, and I did not have my heart broken by someone close to me that I trusted. I came to my lack of belief through research and from study, not from purely emotional means. While that may have been the case for you, it's a mistake to say that is the case for every unbeliever.
Well satan did ask God for forgiveness, he did it through Enoch, Gods reply was, he is supposed to petition me on behalf of man, not man on behalf of him, the judgement stands. book of Enoch, read it.
google book of enoch see for yourself.
Ah, that explains partly why the "book of Enoch" isn't approved by Christians. It plainly veers from the over-all message of the Holy Bible, and is therefore false.
Are ya done yet with havin' sympathy for the Devil?
I don't have sympathy for satan, you need to see a doctor. The post was Satan asking God for forgiveness, I was merely pointing out he already had. May I say Enoch was the most holy man, in fact so holy he didnt die, God just took him which says a lot for christianity, it's false, it teaches things God never taught, but you would'nt know that.
I know about Enoch in the Bible.
I'm just saying that the "book of Enoch" isn't part of the Holy Bible. And for good reason. Anyone can write a book and claim it's truthful, today or even way back when. lol.
Any writings that contradict the Holy Bible aren't considered valid.
You said Christianity is false??
I don't need to see a doctor, not about the kind of thing you're insinuating. LOLOL.
I was right on the money--------you posted things that are contrary to the Bible, as though they're correct and valid, saying that the Devil had already asked God for forgiveness. So yes that's tantamount to having sympathy for the Devil. Why did you post it and then say it's not about sympathy for the Devil?
read my post again, let me explain, the thread is about satan asking God for forgiveness, I pointed out he already had and God said no, what part of that dont you understand. Christianity is false, although Christ is not. christianity is false docrtine, read the bible, I didn't come on here to argue, I came on to say what I had read.
Oh, I understand it all.
You're trying to claim that a book that's not in the Bible is true Scripture.
And, like many liberals and atheists, it seems you want to claim Jesus for yourself without claiming His word for yourself. The two aren't separable, sorry. The Holy Bible is the autobiography of Christ/God. Try as you might, you can't claim Jesus to be something else entirely, you can't "re-make" Him into something that suits your own fancy.
hey dont talk about Jeus's word cos ill bet you wouldnt even know what it was, when did he preach sunday worship, when did he ever say you go to heaven when you die, so where's purgatory mentioned in the bible, ever burning hell dont think so, show me in the bible where it says that.. you celebrate Christmas thats totaly pagan, Jesus was born on 23 September not 25 of December, 25 dec was an old pagan roman empire festival, anatalis sol invictus, birthday of the invincible sun, its what you celebrate every Christmas, sunday worship is what it says SUN day, get it,anf if youd ever read the bible God tels you, and full well you know you do it, His words not mine.You know nothing, you just follow the crowd, and let me say i do follow the word, pity you dont, dont reply you wont get an answer. you really do need to seek medical help.
I'm replying. I sure hope you DON'T answer, because that would be nice to not hear you repeating your silly accusation that I need medical help (!! and LOL) simply because I'm a Christian.
Consider your own status and your own problems in life and stop trying to bully me.
For any of you who continue to whine about the Crusades, and barbaric stuff from way back when, well, if you'll consider things, there were acts of barbaric proportions from several different sides, not just the radical sides of Christianity.
And America, specifically, has corrected its errors of social and literal injustice. We have a working, decent, fair legal system that's been in force for years and years.
Just because we have a "President" and his minions who speak defaming carp about America, doesn't mean you have to. But as you choose! It IS a free Country. Freer than it should be, actually. A Nation's decent citizens shouldn't have to listen to such insulting and accusatory stuff.
I dare any of you who are defaming America to go live in a Muslim Nation or some other anti-Christian Nation, and stay there a while 'til you've seen what it's like, go try to reform a Nation that NEEDS reforming, do your civic duty and go become political activists there, fight the Government there, insult the radical citizens there with the same fervor that you insult us Christians here; whine about how people don't accept homosexual "rights" there, whine about how they won't let you kill your unborn babies, fight for women's rights THERE; I'll bet it won't be long before you'll be running back to America with your tails between your legs crying for the land of freedom that has not only let you have your freedom, but is even now (wrongly) catering to your obsession with forcing your personal desires into our legal system.
Whatever barbaric things were legally condoned in America before, they're done with now. It is a lot of other Nations that are still ignoring and/or condoning and/or participating in barbaric religious acts and terrorism, and it's leaking into here, into my Country, mainly because many liberals are cutting down America and inviting anti-Christian sects in, and making excuses for people like the Fort Hood killer and the Boston bombers.
Since you don't appreciate America, try another Country. I double dare ya.
Since you don't appreciate Jesus/God of the Holy Bible, go worship the "gods" of your choosing, in their territory; I'm sure they'll welcome you, until they get tired of you and start sawing your heads off with knives in front of eager video-makers.
please watch this... that's why i end up in this forum
also please tell me something, i thought no one has been to heaven or hell?! what now?
the devil is deceiving again, but please watch this. and don't be deceive. just my warning. i hate fighting over bibles... please stop deceiving everyone, we just want the truth.
Simple question to this answer is that "Yes! God CAN forgive Satan" as He has the authority to do everything that he wants. But he WILL not forgive Satan because it is written in the fortune of Satan. Satan WILL not seek forgiveness from God as it is also not in the fortune of Satan.
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