What "type" of God are you referring to?
He doesn't need it. He wants it. It is us humans who need to do it in order to be pleasing to Him. He is able to make anything worship Him if He should so choose to. What He wants is free will worship.
If he wants it then he must need it. If we need to do it in order to please him then he needs our worship. How do you speak for him in such a way. How would you know he want free will worship? Plus there is no such thing as free will worship. If you are worshiping God you are doing so for a reward that you think will come eventually. But why would he need or want worship? If a human possess such a trait we would think he or she is self-absorbed or narcissistic.
Just trying to understand.
Wants aren't always the same as needs.
I go by the Bible's words which says God wants us to worship Him. And He commands us to.
Why wouldn't there be such a thing as free will worship? We have minds and thoughts and are able to make choices. Sometimes worshipping Him is automatic and spontaneous; other times it's a choice we make.
He is a Holy God. That inspires worship of Him. It's not just about fearing Him. It's about recognizing Him for who and what He is, and Loving Him and honoring Him.
Why He would want worship? Because He has feelings, emotions, and having made us "in His image", He not only has the desire for our Love but has the right to ask for it. He has the right to demand it, really; but He wants our Love freely given. He is our Creator and is worthy of worship; and He is Love; He also wants us to Love Him.
Commands is the word I'd think critically about. Ask yourself if that makes sense.
Well, yes it makes sense. He is a perfect Being, the all-powerful Being.
Even if He were not a good God, I'd still have to worship Him just because He's all-powerful. But I'm glad He's a good God.
What is there to think critically about? An omnipotent being commands you to either worship Him or burn in Hell while being Tortured for eternity. If you believe, the choice of whether to worship or not seems rather obvious...
Think Critically, why would God ask of such things? I can understand why a religion would ask of such things. They want you obedient and they want money. Critical thinking is not asking which do you prefer, it's asking does this make sense. It's interesting to me that when most of us are young we are told that Santa knows if we are good or bad. At a certain age we think critically and no longer believe in Santa. We are too afraid to make the same leap with the concept of God.
One more thing. No omnipotent being has commanded me to worship him. Just words from an imperfect flawed book written 2000 years ago by people who have never even met Jesus. Plus it sounds like I'm being bullied. Would I kiss the boots of a bully is what you are asking. Worship or burn in Hell for eternity? Kiss my boots or I'll beat the crap out of you. Same thing to me. Only the street bully I can see. I know he is there and will cause harm. I've never seen God and never heard his voice and if there is a God it doesn't make sense that he would bully me for my lunch money.
Then you are not a believer and will appraise the command for truthfulness. It does not pass muster.
But if you are a believer you will not question the command. It is a true one and there is no question of whether or not it was given by God. At that point there is nothing to consider and the choice of whether or not to follow that command isn't much of a choice at all.
You see the results of that belief in Brenda's response; God is perfect and thus "stealing your lunch money" is of no consequence and a false understanding of His command. The command will not be evaluated in that light - rather it will be evaluated as a direction that makes perfect sense from a perfect being. It will be followed as that is the only thing that makes sense.
All you must do to understand this is believe. Truly believe - not just pay lip service to it. At that point you will no longer question, and there is no need to reason carefully about truth. You already know it. Any contraindications to that truth are false and you already know that, too, so there is no need to reason through them either.
Actually, God made a covenant with the Israelites when He brought them out of Egypt with outstretched arms. He told the people not to bow down to any other gods, or worship them or serve them or sacrifice to them, and or offer sacrifices to the gods of the world! Did they listen to him? NO! Especially after the great miracle He had done for them. He told them NOT to forget the covenant that was made to HIM, that they would do so. They did not listen, they went back to worshiping idols and worshiping the gods of the world, they persisted in their former practices. Even while they were worshipping the Lord they were also worshiping idols at the sametime. Gods people divorced him more than 50 times in the Bible. Even Aaron, Moses's brother and his sister lost hope and turned to creating an Idol (the golden calf) at the base of the mountain when Moses reappeared with the 10 commandments. God struck her with Leprosy, for disobeying his covenant, but later healed her of it. That is why we should worship Him, because He is a Loving God. HE is patient with us, we may stumble and fall 100 or more times in life, but he is there to always pick us back up and sooth the pain. He does not promise us a perfect life, He only promises that if we knock He will hear us! and He will answer! He tells us that "Many are the trials of the righteous, but God will see you through them". I tell my sons, don't wait till it is too late! We are all just one breath away from it being too late!
I certainly agree with Brenda Durham. God want's us to worship Him and Him alone. We need to do it in our free will to have God's favor.
Amen and thanks The Marker
Welcome to HubPages! I found your first hub very nicely written and informative.
If he wished it of our own free well, he would not assign such massive punishment if we fail to do His bidding. The threat of eternal Hell rather negates any free will we might wish to exercise.
Nicely put. Free will? Tell me how great I am or burn in hell. Free will? Does that make any sense?
God created us to have the need for nutrition. You have the freedom to not eat, and starve to death. God created us, not the reverse. Creator always imposes his design. Could it be any other way? We have free will in all things bound within the design, a given.
You are mistaken. Mankind created God (all the gods) in their own image. Which is why God (all the gods) behave as cruel, vindictive, hateful and violent children. That was generally the condition mankind was in when the gods were created. Uncivilized, cruel and barbaric children.
Yes, the gods were generally created to be much stronger and smarter than the men that created them - man has always wanted those characteristics, and a god that isn't stronger than man isn't much of a god, anyway.
Wrong!! God, the first cause, created All. Men are children of God in this all encompassing existence.
All cultures that has ever exist for a reasonable time has created a higher power. This has to be from inspiration predetermined in their lives.
The finite always follows the infinite.
If you know God, humble yourself, and obey His laws, you will not be punished. Worship has a different meaning and God does not force us to do that, just free will.
And if you exercise your free will and refuse to obey His archaic and cruel laws you will be tortured and burned for eternity.
Great choice here, with no force being used at all...
One have the free will to jump into the Grand Canyon. The Creator's design has bounds, a given. You must create your own design for complete autonomy; although, you would have placed bounds on all other entities.
God has given us the free will to chose Him or not. Does bosses on the job give one the option to exercise one's will completely? But, you have the free will to quit.
Yes, you may quit your job. You may starve, but you can quit.
Or you may look around and find another job before quitting - generally a much smarter action. So which other god should we worship (using our free will) in order not to burn for eternity? Or are we stuck with just the one god that will torture us forever if we exercise free will by disobeying him?
As I'm not aware of any other gods, seems that I'm still stuck; burn forever or worship and obey God. Technically a choice, but in practice - well, no, It's not. Much like a politician spinning his lies to sound better than they actually are, free will here is a false promise.
Try telling your boss that you should have your options available that you can enjoy.
With all of the restrictions in this existence we still have free will. We can comply to the Will of God or not without being slapped down or destroyed. We can not change the design, the plan, of God for us to become eternal beings.
For one to hate God because he created heaven and allowed for hell to exist doesn't desire to seek God's love which is joyful, and is solidly self centered.
We have free will in all things, whether we like the choices or not. God is boss with a perfect plan that must be if we are to become eternal beings.
"We can comply to the Will of God or not without being slapped down or destroyed."??? If we do not comply we burn for eternity. I'd call that pretty well slapped, myself.
Where do you get that from? Free will? Do as I say or burn in hell. That's not free will, it's a school yard bully.
But as far as I know God did not say that we should worship Him or burn in hell.
I don't know if the bible says it, but certain Christians do.
Well, in that case, I believe there are misinterpretations from the Bible.
I don’t think that the God I believe in needs or wants worship ... though a little bit of appreciation probably goes a long way towards appeasement.
I don’t think he wants to be so large and close before our faces that we can’t see everything else this life has to offer either.
Though I do believe he should always remain within our peripheral vision.
At least that's my thoughts on the matter,
The one that I read about in the same bible which you read.
The same God as Abraham did, I think.
Ok. I just wasn't sure of your meaning.
A lot of the time I think I must see a different kind of God that others see though we are reading the same bible, we see something different.
And this issue is just one of many instances.
Why would you question him on which God he is talking about? Besides Hinduism, most only worship one God. Some like to divide that one God up. Father and Son and Holy Sprit. Some worship and pray to Saints as well. Saints are man made Gods. I'm not sure why one would worship and pray to a Saint, but Catholics do just that. They believe each saint has special powers. Mother Mary is also prayed to. They call it a Saint, but really it's a God if you think it can help you in some why by prayer.
Yes, I agree that no one should worship Mary nor any other human.
The Trinity, however, is God, one God in three distinct but inseparable manifestations. I don't divide them up, just recognize their specific purposes.
Why don't you divide them up? They have separate purposes? According to the bible there was a time without Jesus. The must be three separate Gods.
They don't have separate purposes. They have specific purposes. He has a specific purpose. To draw us to Him.
Well that clears that up. They have specific purposes not separate purposes. If they have specific purposes they are then different. Or do you have three names for one God? How can the father and son be the same especially since they talked to each other?
As the "Creator" of all God deserves to be worshipped for giving us life and providing for our needs.
That is because people fear God, and they want to placate God by offering worships. Fear may or may not be a delusion.
He doesn't need it. He existed before his creation, and he is self-sustaining.
(Caution: There will be tinges of sarcasm in this here post, folks)
Well, now, what a wonderful question.
Why does God need worship?
And then people say, He doesn't NEED it, He WANTS it...
WHOA WHOA WHOA
So, my very existence is based solely upon the WANTS of a Cosmic Sheriff that supposedly loves me, yet puts in motion all of the things that would eventually destroy me?
That's messed up.
I must take blame.
I must be His slave (I'll get deeper into that if necessary)
I must believe His truth.
I must worship/accept/believe in Jesus.
I have to do a lot of things for the wants of some being, who, if His wants are not met, dooms me to an Eternal Hell Fire.
Talk about selfish.
But He has the right to be selfish, because He "created" me. He just wants my love and attention. What if I see no need to want to return that "love" and attention? It is my right, is it not, to refuse? But, He rewards us exercising supposed "free will" with Fire and Brimstone. I don't like this "God." But, I do think He needs it. What better way to get people to worship you than to tell them they'll burn forever in Hell if they don't.
"But God loves you!"
I don't need that kind of "love..." thanks. If you want to give me guidelines to protect me from some of the bad choices that can be made in this world, great! That's love! But to give me an Eternal punishment?? That's just vengeful. There's is no love in Vengeance...
I really like what you have to say. Whatever this deity, power is, it should be about love and forgiveeness and respect for free thought and opinion.
Where oh where does that exist without being questioned and critcised.
Watch out! Someone will throw scripture at you. I'm not sure how they think it helps. Well put.
Wow! You need hands on guidance. What do you believe in that is positive and helps peoples joy? Any answers?
In which part of Christian history has the church, be it Catholic or Protestant, brought, on average, more positive then negative, more joy than dispair? Was it between 300 AD and 500 AD when Christianity was establishing itself and exacting murdurous revenge on the pagans, or from 1000 to 1200 AD, when Christians lauchned a series of devastating Crusades against the Muslims, or how about between 1200 AD and 1900 AD when either the Inquisition was being practiced or the cruliest forms of mind control and pursecution of non-believers was practiced by the Protestants, if, that is, they weren't at war with either the Catholics or each other? What I see the Christian church brought to the world was centuries of harsh oppression that people are slowing coming out from under. Europe is well on its way, Americam the last bastion of that ol' time religion, has a long way to go.
You conveniently named the few Christian assaults on people not of the faith. Meanwhile, if I were to count, if possible, all of the secular war and battles which had nothing to do with faith, than I would be counting for a week...millions, my brother. We must take in account all wars and battles.
God deals with the human mind exactly where the minds are, and always has His vectorial instructions to save and bring peace and joy. God never overrules freedom of choice which He gave to all men.
When I studied one course of medieval history the course was about over thirty wars of just that period. During that period, the Christian hierarchy was in a strong enough position to speak against all of the secular war of the kings, aristocracy, and noblemen of that era because doing the dark ages in Europe Jesus became king.
It is obvious that Christians have progressed while the secular socio-political machinery has not. The church has tried to prevent all wars for the pass 300 years; civil war, WWII, WWIII, and all others.
So, clean your own house before complaining about another house.
You constantly refer to Christians in your comment, but there are other faiths that worship the one god, albeit using another name. I am wondering if anybody else from those faiths has an opinion on this very provocative question.??
You "You conveniently named the few Christian assaults on people not of the faith."
Well that makes it okay then??????????????
Oh yea and the Pope was all over the nazi's in WW2??? (Sarcasm)
you're a dead head. Didn't it register when I expressed the religious view over the pass 300 years. Much progress for religion; damn near no progress for secular interests...wars...wars, and wars having no relationship to religion. Now it's oil. No one or group is perfect; don't look for it; only those progressing.........
We all have a long way to go before we achieve the ideal living Word of God.
If you are implying that the middle east conflicts are religious conflicts, than I disagree in the sense that all cultures resist the intrusion into their customs. Even if the Middle East were atheist they would resist the intrusion of foreign countries into their affairs. The U.S. is not going to say that they are intruding with great influence.
We need their oil. This is the motif. Resisting the intrusion into their customs is the cause.
You never get it. The middle east is screwed up because they don't have a separation of church and state. The religion doesn't matter. Christianity screwed up Europe for more than 1000 years.
Fellow, think beyond your nose and your prejudices. If there was not one shantie sniff of religion in the Middle East, than they would still be resisting intrusion in their state of affairs; endangering their customs. Wake up!!
Your English is a little confusing here. To be fair, I'm not sure what you said. If you're implying Sharia law is good for the middle east you need your head examined.
Most six grades would understand my statement. Clean your ears; unfog your mind from opposing God. You are holding a losing hand.
Yea, like it's only me that doesn't understand what your taking about.
All the broken syntax and grammar, it's a wonder anyone can understand what he's talking about.
You have selective understanding. Hope you can at least understand.
I have a scope of understanding that far exceeds anything written in the bible... This is to say, the educational level of todays sixth grade class, could pick apart the bible.
Come on man! 2 of every animal? You gotta be sh#$%ing me... You actually think it was litteraly true? If a sixth grader, this day and age, thinks that crap is litteraly true, he/she needs a better education.
Have you ever read where I commented that the bible is to believed literally?
Just for you, I am going to repeat. I believe the bible literally spiritually, my inner mind relationship with God. When it comes to the material, natural world the bible has figure of speech, analogies, smiles, metaphors, and parables. Lets not deplete the two.
The Kingdom of God is within. "Come let us reason together..." So, do you believe that Christian kills reasoning and logic? If so, you are a lost child.
What seem stupid and ludicrous in some scriptures is to get one to question why in their inner spiritual self with God. Since God can do anything, than nothing that God says is null and shall manifest itself in some form or fashion in the world. I have experienced this phenomenon many times; each time,I have grown spiritually and closer to God. "God takes the foolishness of this world, and dumbfounds and bewilders the wise and prudent." God has no match; feels no opposition to His Will.
Sorry big, giant human, you Might be a god in the future and create your world as you please.
I beg to differ on both points, of course. The leadership of the church IS the faith, it was the church who attacked therefore it was the faith attacking. Be aware, I am not saying the Christian message is the problem, it is the bearer of the message that has been, throughout history until today.
I actually did a count of major secular and non-secular conflicts because of comments on another post; up to today, they are roughly equal in number. If you assume that WW I and WW II were secular wars, and I can make an argument that WW II wasn't, then the number killed in secular wars exceeds those of religious wars by several million.
As to Christianity getting less violent in the last 100 years, I suspect you are right, Northern Ireland and other similar examples included. However, the propensity for the Christian Church to dicate lifestyle to the populus, members and non-members alike, has not receeded in the slightest, the best I can tell.
As to the reduction in religious wars in general, vice secular ones, I bet if we did a count today, there are more religious ones going on than secular, it is just that most of them aren't Chrstian led (although they may be the target) at the moment.
There is no getting around it, monotheists are a violent bunch, violence, either mental or physical, has been their calling card for 90% of their history. If you can, point out more than one, 100 year period in history, when one major monotheistic faith wasn't making war on itself, one of the other faiths, or on pagans. I think you have to go back to 100 BCE to find a period like that, and that was because a secular Rome (they actually weren't, but are viewed that way) had conquered the Jews.
Have you ever seen Monty Python's the life of Brian?
Interesting. I concede the mental part because after all religion is the moral code keeper. So, by nature, they are tagged as the aggressors. Moral values are necessary for any society; you might say that without religion we would have a lot of hellish societies deteriating.
By no means do I believe that religious wars exceeds those of secular wars. Imperialism, acquistion of land, annexing unilateraly, and no telling what other reasons for war. It is the nature of man to fight, and prove superiority. WWII and WWI was Germany's imperialist movement. Some say the pope joined Hitler. The Pope was trying to save the Vatican and the papacy. After all Muscilini(?) was one of Hitler's boys.
Presently, The USA need the middle East's oil badly. Religion has been dragged into the conflict as usual...such goes the role of big mama. LOL!!
It isn't the moral code, or the a church's insistance that it be followed, I am talking about both Christian and Islamic ere, but not Jewish any more; it is, what in my opinion, the draconian way they force their members and non-members to obey it. You see it today, not as bad of course, in America (without and 'm' this time) with the battle between Christian Conservative's desire to modify U.S. law to their moral code, e.g. Rick Santorum, and the rest of us resisting the Christian Church trying to tell us how to believe or act through the force of law. It is this "war" going on in America that has me so riled up.
As to ratio of secular to religious wars, I will go do a count using Wikipedia, they have a rather extensive list of human conflict, I suspect you will not like the result.
I agree, so much for a secular society or the separation of church and state. Haven't Americans learned what happens in a christian state. This may eventually be the downfall of the USA.
I wrote an article call "Legalism in Religion" in which I opposed zealots of making rules rather than seeking the Holy Spirit and imparting to others. I do believe in cleaning my own house because calling others dirty.
Wiki shall follow propaganda of U.S. labeling religious aggressively; although, I shall look forward to your results.
Accurally the USA doesn't need the oil from the middle east. Canada has plenty. It's cleaner in that it's wealth is better spread out by it's people. Buying oil from the Saudi's only make the Saudi family richer. The treat women as dirt and kill anyone who opposes them. They as the rest of the middle east are not a secular society and rule like Europe did in the middle ages. Why doesn't the USA buy all it's oil from Canada? If they took the wealth away from the middle east it would be a different world. Why does the people of the middle east hate the USA and Europe so much? Ask yourself why?
To which part? The only thing I think Rad Man is ahead of himself on is the availability of oil in Canada. Yes, they have a ton, but a lot of it is not economically retrievable yet. As to how Saudis and other fundamentalist Muslims, treat their women, he is right on and fundamentalist Christians aren't far behind.
There is a lot of difference between Muslin fundamentalist and Christian fundamentalist. Most fundamentalist Christians restrict women from preaching or even being in the pulpit, and others require that the women covers her hear in church. As far as daily social life, there are virtuely none. The Muslin fundamentalist does the latter, and extend the restrictions plus added restrictions into every day life. This is a vast difference. Although, AKA does know half way what he is talking about. LOLOL!!
Canada is looking at selling it's oil to China because the USA doesn't want it.
The leadership of a faith is not the faith any more than the US president is the US Constitution. And you don't have to go back quite so far to find examples of pagans waging war against monotheists. The first three centuries of the Christian church were marked by several attempts on the part of the Roman Empire to wipe them out entirely.
You aren't going to find me disagreeing with you @Valerie, but in the US, if we don't like how the president is representing us, we vote him or her (someday) out, the same with members of Congress; in effect, we change our leadership to represent what we believe the Constitution stands for, at the time.
Those of faith have no such choice. The only choice you have is to go find another leadership to follow ... if you disagree with your leadership. Given that I never saw much of an uprising, save Luther and Calvin, which, in my opinion, didn't change much in this regard, of the masses against their leadership, I can only assume that the faithful agree with it, therefore making it the faith.
... and Hitler against the Jews. (This, if I were going to, would say that WW II was at least in part a religious war. Hitler used the underlying Christian hatred of Jews to coelese the masses around him.) Yes, others have persecuted Christians, but, given the Christian, especially Jesus', message, does that give the Church the right or an excuse to do the same, or nearly the same horrible things ... for the next 15 or 16 centuries?
Members fire pastor all the time.
Hitler would have wanted world dominance regardless if church or faith didn't exist at all.
Again, you're not supporting your assertion that the faith is the leadership, which is nonsense.
The faith is the teachings and ideals, not how human beings fail to follow them, and most certainly not how, as Jesus once put it, the blind lead the blind.
Ok, now it is clear to me that English is not your first language. Not trying to offend, but now I know why I get confused reading your posts.
I understand that all types of falsehoods give people joy and hope. If that's what you want to cling to, by all means, go ahead. I'm simply pointing out the ideas of mainstream Christianity and how their God is, and where I see serious pitfalls. Plain and simple. I find positivity in many different places, but I won't cling to mythical ideas for joy any longer. I mean no one any disrespect personally, that is not my intentions. However, it is this system of beliefs that I have a problem with, and I share those ideas in forums, especially one's like this, where I have asked myself the very question. "Why does God need worship?" But people can't answer it, they just dance around it.
Want a straight answer...how about this. God needs worshipers because their brain energy when focused gives him the power without them ascending.
God doesn't need worshipers but worshipers need God.
Sorry too much Stargate.
Although I agree in theory, you might want to stick to realty. The Ori don't exist. That's fiction. I doubt it is a valid argument against an evangelical Chtistian.
It just goes to show that people will believe some wild (expletive).
Agreed but the truth is I don't consider virtual reality...reality the way many do.
I'm really only a bitch in this reality. Maybe in reality too, but I can do it here and live with it.
You hit the nail on the head with #2, @Luv, I need to remember that one.
LoL. Actually, my stepfather and I have these kind of discussions all of the time, and one of point in the conversation he hinted at the "fact" that the Christian "God" may very well be like the Greek Gods, with whom it was well known that they needed worship to survive/be powerful, He just wants people to think that He doesn't need it, and to believe that He is more powerful than He actually is. I don't believe that He exists, but if He did, this would be more plausible, though unjust.
Wow, now that's thinking and connecting. That's a great answer. Thanks
Naturally, the Greeks were catching on to their human state in the universe. They just needed more time to put it all together.
Unjust? Why? Do you serve your boss or your boss serve you? You have the freedom of choice not to serve. Get another job. Guess what?
Nobody's dancing around the question of why God needs worship. The answer is very straightforward. God doesn't need worship. You might as well ask why fish need floaties.
Well according to some God demands worship it. Why would he demand worship. It's not a trait we would appreciate in humans, why would we accept it in a God.
Now that's comparing apples to oranges. You should read a bit further back where I address the problem with Him wanting us to worship. Fish don't give mandates to people that result in Hellfire based on their wants.
Supposedly God doesn't NEED worship, but He demands it none the less, and those who refuse await Fire and Brimstone...
The Christian God is very selfish. It seems that He thinks that because He "created" us, we owe Him worship. We do not. And if He did not NEED it, it wouldn't be mandated, unless He's just a tyrant, which is also possible.
People compare Him often to a parent, right? The parents who treat their kids as if they owe them something, with extreme consequences if their wants aren't met, what are they like? Should kids accept whatever is thrown their way, simply because their mother graced them with life, and decided not to abort them? No, we see it as injustice with human parents, but we take it when it's "God." A double standard undeserved.
I didn't ask to be born. But I have to face potentially dire consequences if I don't do what He wants me to (accepting Jesus, devoting myself to Him, etc.) Oh, and then He says that many will not enter the Kingdom. So, He supposedly creates all of these people KNOWING that they all won't make it in. Are a lives a game? I wonder how many people actually understand the extremity of what the idea of Hell is?
Now, understand that I am addressing the mainstream Christian God. There are groups, certainly not a current majority, but there are those who don't believe in Hell, because they have a better understanding of the "OT." Still, there are many unavoidable injustices about the OT God, but, you'd be surprised what many contemporary jews would tell you about it, and what some people who call themselves Christians still, who don't believe what mainstream Christianity does.
I thought that I had perfectly stated that God doesn't need worshipping; we need worshipping of God; although, God rewards many other ways even unto giving a thirty soul a drink of water. Actually, worshipping God unlocks an abundantly amount of gifts for each that worship Him.
I must state that I can not incredibly use your finite secular beliefs to explain my infinite God. You must see this truth, repent, and accept Jesus, the Son of God, as your Savior. Faith comes into play at that time. if not, "la la dee doo."
God does not need worship. We need to worship.
The difference is that between God and us.
God's perfect and all powerful. The idea of God needing anything is absurd.
But we aren't perfect or all powerful. We do indeed have needs, and those who worship don't just fall on the floor and contribute just a brain cell or two. Real worship involves the whole mind. It is the imperfect admitting to being imperfect and looking to learn from the Perfect.
The forbidden fruit was not an analogy of forbidden knowledge, but represented knowledge pursued the wrong way and with the wrong intent.
Are you saying Christianity knows the right way and has the right intent? After Christianity showed us the Dark ages with it's inquisitions and blasphemy. The bible condones Murder, Rape and Slavery (I keep posting this and no one comments).
Any knowledge is good knowledge. It's what you do with the knowledge. There goes Christianity again trying to tell me what to read and how to think.
Religion is outdated and outmoded, it serves no other purpose than to fuel the desire to fit in.
I find it interesting how frequently people presume to know the intentions of every individual in a group that numbers in the billions.
That being said, a neat verse in the Bible rather precludes the idea of joining a religion to fit in- "Be not conformed to this age but transformed through the renewing of your mind." If people only joined a religion to fit in, Christianity would have been DOA.
Christianity is as far from reaching its full fruition as the nearest star. Christianity has unbelievable good promises from God, and believers are being blessed daily by those promises being partially fulfilled. Just think when the complete whole comes!
"Seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and All shall be added unto you." All means All that you can imagine. Believe it or let it alone.
And here I was operating under the assumption that you had an honest question and would be open to some new insights, rather than trolling. Since you apparently know all the answers, why even bother asking?
I am certainly open to your opinion. I have mine, but I'm fascinated by others.
Then don't go bashing the religion of others. It certainly does not reflect open-mindedness.
Many believe that God is perfect, all powerful, all good, all knowing, etc. A perfect being must, by necessity, be a complete being, it cannot NEED anything. Furthermore a perfect being would be unable to create imperfect things.
So if there is a God who "needs" something and who created this very imperfect world than he/she/it must, logically, be imperfect.
Why would a god need worship? To boost it's ego perhaps, sate it's own desire to be adored or loved at all costs. The Bible even suggests that "every shall knee bow, and every tongue confess" that Jesus is Lord, this implies that God will get worship one way or another from people and that even if you're one of the unlucky folks to be tossed into the Lake of Fire you will still have to bow before this tyrannical deity.
Worship...to adore and revere.
I wouldn't think God 'wanted' worship for worship's sake. If God truly exists, if the God of the Bible truly exists...if he truly made all of creation...perhaps it wouldn't be far fetched to adore him. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing to be reverent toward such a powerful being who chose to create humans.
I have no evidence that God exists, but I can certainly understand why someone who thinks he does might consider this type of behavior warranted.
Now, if you are envisioning worship in the sense of a hound groveling at your feet, that would be reason to scratch your head.
Go look in the mirror, do you see yourself? That is evidence enough that God exists!!! What a slap in the face to God to say HE does not exist. Look around you! Has anyone else done anything to compare to Gods ability. The universe, the planets, the people, the trees, the animals. Mankind certainly has done nothing as great to equal what God has done, plus much more. He loved his own son enough to send him to die a horrible death and to take the sin of everyone in the world upon his back with him, so we might live an eternal life with Him. You see spirit is eternal, no matter where you end up going to when you leave this earth. Even a thief on the cross decided at the last moment of his life that he had better decide to acknowledge Jesus as our Lord and Savior. You see he was smart enough to realize that it was better to believe in Him and be saved and live eternally, than not to believe and go to hell eternally. What did he really have to lose by believing? Nothing, he would only be gaining everthing God had to offer him.
One more thing, why don't you start PRAISING God everyday, at least 10 times a day or more and see what He does for you. As a matter of fact, why don't all of you who read this do the same. I am willing to bet that God will change each and everyone of everyone on here who is negative about God into a positive believer about God. I will bet that you will get down on your knees and ask God to forgive you for that negativity. Then ask Him to come into your heart and I will be praying that you will all receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit into your heart, and that will touch your mouth and give you all of you your tongue language that only he can understand because it is the only language that satan cannot understand and then you can have constant conversations with him and share your life intimately with Him all you want and need. Everyone in the world needs that intimacy with God! He is waiting for you to make the fist step!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW!!! You're joking or trolling or something, right?
Faith is a thing of the heart, not of words, and not of bullying a person into believing.............read my hub if your dare. because religion is should be about tolerance and understanding the needs of others.
I read your hub, and still think that "faith" IS a thing that is bullied into believers. The non-believer refuses to submit to bullying.
Nope. Religion is about controlling you from cradle to grave, by indoctrinating you...in other words brainwashing you, and directing you into what to hold sacred, no matter how absurd.
Tolerance?! Understanding?!! Laughable!
I did not say it was , I said it SHOULD BE.
Faith comes by reading the word of God, the more you read the more faith you acquire. the Bible says so. According to your faith, it shall be done unto you. God doesn't bully anyone to have faith!! Math 21:21 If you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to the mountain (your problems), go throw yourself into the sea and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for! Gal. 3:24 We are justified by faith. We have been crucified with Christ, we no longer live but Christ lives in all who receive Him. So the life we live in the body, we live in faith in the Son of God, who loves us and gave His life for us. If righteousness could be gained through the law, then Christ died for nothing!!
The more I read the Bible, twice through end-to-end, plus rereads of various sections, the more I became convinced this was not the way to God. In time, I found a better and much more fullfilling way to understand what God really is. To do that, however, I had to leave Christianity, as a religion, behind, although there are parts I do borrow from, mainly from some of the thoughts that are pretty well established as something Jesus, the man, actually said.
Yep begin to trust the word in you...the outward word makes ten times over worst of a sinner.
YEs, there is more than what religion and the church teaches! You are right about that. I didn't think so until I began to talk to the Holy Spirit. I had prayed to God to give me just a little bit of His wisdom and knowledge about this world and what it is all about. Then He began to reaveal things to me. I was given the gift of automatic handwriting and in the 80's I began to write things down. Many things I was told then, I did not understand at the time. Now I do, because the churches on tv are trying to teach some of the very things I was told back then. They kept it out of their teachings till now, for some good reason. I believe that we as a society were not to know about it till now! Much of the truth is being spilled out on tv in movies, history chanel and sermons, The whole truth has been spilled out all over the world. I believe it is up to us to find out what the real truth is by dividing the word of God, and praying for the truth to be shown to us. When you begin to crave that truth, it begins to come to you. Then and only then will you see that the Light will set you free But first your spiritual eye has to be opened, then He will allow the doors to be open within us and it will allow us to see and understand why it is so important to know God and love Him with all our heart, and continue to praise Him and Jesus ffor all they have done for us.
Perhaps you could save us a lot of effort and simply tell us on this forum exactly what these 'new truths' that have remained hidden until now, actually are. Then in order to validate these truths, back up each one up with at least 2, preferably 3, biblical references.
Yep. You're trolling. Do me a favor, and step outside of your delusion, just for your next comment. Try actually answering some questions, and stop with the inane babble that you incessantly regurgitate.
Faith can never be a delusion. Faith has God substance. "It's a fool that says in his heart that there is no God."
Oh I know a fool when I see one. And I see one right know.
It is a FOOL who has faith in a 2000 year old con. It is doubly foolish to insist that all others share your delusion. I urge you to seek professional help as soon as you can. Seriously.
God said absolutely and explicitly, "It's a FOOL that says in his heart that there is no God." God told me and million and million of others who found this to be true. God said it; I didn't.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
What's you point? Those are just words in an old book. Use your own brain.
Obviously, we have been shown that these words are true. You seem to be unaware of traditional values that have a long track record with the people. Please don't go to court as a lawyer not having any traditional knowledge.
Old book; great book.
Ha ha ha ha. If the only knowledge I had in court was from the bible I'd be in trouble. Why? Because the bible condones rape, murder and slavery. If you have been shown that these words are true then you condone rape, murder and slavery.
Then by your own admission you are in imminent danger of going to hell...judging from this verse from the great book:
(Matthew 5:22) - "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."
So I'm warning you to stop calling nonbelievers fools. Not because it's wrong, but simply because I don't want you to go to hell...because God loves you. So save yourself and stop sinning against God.
Hey, God said it. I didn't.
This shows a desperate struggle for survival. Your delusion has now clung to this extremely foolish and lnsulting scripture, because it can't survive through the rigors of reason.
Do you not understand that we spit on your silly religious book, which contains this nonsense, thereby making your assertions completely irrelevant.
The fraudulent book of which you think you are quoting "sacred" words, is merely a piece of @#$%$ that deserves to be burned.
Your God never said anything. Your God is imaginary! Using a stupid 2000 year old irrelevant book to argue the point is absurd...unless one is suffering from some form of psychosis.
"It's a FOOL that says in his heart that there is no God." No fool can change this truth; a fool that popped up for a second of cosmic time, knowing not where he came from nor where he is going. You are insulted! Now I know at least that you are a candidate.
"The one unforgivable sin is to mock the Holy Spirit." Put that in your pipe and smoke it. I pray that this doesn't insult you because if it does....you are the marked soul. Sorry!
(Matthew 5:22) - "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."
I would stop calling people fools if I were you. I mean if you know what God can do. Look, He made a place for those like you, who don't believe.
Yet here you are mocking Jesus. Because this verse is taken right from his famous Sermon on he Mount. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU! A place of burning flesh and gnashing teeth awaits blasphemers like you.
No, it is you, my unfortunate one, who will be spending eternity in that place of sulfur and brimstone...and don't forget the gnashing of teeth!
This extreme ignorance, and childish flippant FOOLISHNESS, categorically proves who the real fool is. One should be ashamed of such immature behavior. Again, I urge you to get some help.
Only once in scripture did Jesus teach anyone how to pray and it began Our Father which is in heaven ...
And he rebuked the man for calling him good, stating that there is only one which is good, and he wasn't him.
We must admitt that there are translation problems within the bible as we know it today.
Jesus is said to be the only begotten son of God yet in Psalms, it is written that God said, "this day I have begotten you", talking to king David.
I guess we can shut this conversation down by insisting that King David was the same person as Jesus ... No further discussion just accept it and forget about it. NOT!
But ,, but, but, that makes four, don't it? I don't understand!
Yes, Jesus taught US how to pray. That doesn't mean He had to pray. He was illustrating how we should pray. Note that was while He was in human form on earth. There are many verses that tell us He was God in the flesh. There are many verses that tell us that everything Jesus did was for OUR benefit, for our understanding. Not for His. Because He already knew all things, or at least had access to knowing all things, even though He was in a human body.
Just because He was in a human body doesn't mean humankind is the same as God. We are not.
I don't know if Jesus felt that he needed to pray or not!
But he did and often; mostly when he was alone. So these would not have been just for show.
I didn't mean just for show exactly. But as an example to us.
For instance, if He prayed when He was alone, then how do we know that? If He was alone, why were there eyewitnesses in the Bible who told us He went off alone to pray? How did the disciples know He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane? Yet they were supposedly asleep, or at least had fallen asleep.
The Bible says Jesus could've called legions of angels to retrieve him from the Cross, to save him from physical death. Yet He chose to stay there and die. If it wasn't for our benefit, then he wouldn't have done it; there would've been no reason to do it.
I think the answers to your questions lie within the way you phrased the questions.
Perhaps what you should be asking is, if Jesus could call legions of angels to retrieve him from the cross why didn't he do it? He could have showed God power and there would be no need to not believe. How exactly was that for our benefit? If he wants our worship he could have gotten it all. Show yourself to all and even the sceptics would believe. Why would be have to pray to his father if they were one. Nothing makes sense.
His sacrifice showed His love for us. God's power wasn't in question.
Yes it was. It's in question even today. Everything should be in question.
Who are we to question the one who created US? If anything we should be down on our knees thanking Him for doing so. All of man's wisdom and intelligence is but foolishness to GOD. Man's wisdom does not even begin to compare to God's. I would be very careful if I were you. You are walking on egg shells and they are about to break. I have seen the power of God in action from people talking about Him that way!
You are trying to bully me. "Don't question or you'll burn in hell" But I can question so I will. Christianity doesn't want you to have knowledge or question what they do. The apple is not a story of a forbidden fruit, it about forbidden knowledge. Do you still believe in Santa as well? The story is the same. Be good-get present, be bad-get nothing, and don't forget he knows when you are being bad or good. Sound familiar? If there is a God he have us the ability to think and to question. If he didn't want us to question we wouldn't be able to do it.
Don't bully me again.
I rebuke those words! I am not bullying anyone, I am just saying the truth. No, we are the apple of His eye. Not the one hanging on the tree Don't you get it. HE loved us so MUCH, that he sent his son to die in our place. That is how much HE loved us! The man on the cross next to Jesus was bad all of his life till the last moment, when he asked Jesus to remember him, when he goes to heaven in all His glory. He was the ONLY ONE IN THE Bible that was promised a place there with Jesus! Did you know that! You have all the right to decided which way you want to believe, Christianity the religion has no part in the way you decide. Only you and you alone are the one who is responsible for that, not any religion! It will be you and I and everyone else who will stand before God and ansewer to that!
Out of curiosity, have you ever wondered? Are people questioning God, or your understanding? There is a difference, you know.
Rad man is right. If you believe God gave you a brain....what, exactly, do you think it was for? How many brain cells do you think you need in order to fall on the floor and worship? Two, maybe three?
You missed the entire point. It's about love; showing love to the One who created you. If you only think that your parents created, than I can't help you at this time.
I'm afraid I didn't miss the point. You guys have abdicated the right to think for yourself, yet attempt to claim the authority to think for others. Without any proof that your opinion means anything, you all appear quite foolish. It is laughable.
No one asked for your help. We all keep asking for you to use your brian?
Yes, God did give us a brain and a body. The brain in many people constantly thinks negative thoughts. The reason for that is that the brain when used negatively, actually become the play ground of Satan. Negative thoughts creep in from hearing ideas on tv, always hanging around negative people, listening to negative music, that is loud and offending, constantly speaking negative words, draws you to the negative people and crowds. Pretty soon you are nothing and it is very difficult to turn that around. Let me give you an example. I ran away from home when I was 12 years old. These are the words I heard day in and day out. "Take that smile off your face or I will slap it off", Get that hair out of the face or I will cut it off", You want your mouth washed out with soap, then shut it", Clean this right or I will pull all the dishes out and you will stand there again and wash dishes over all day long." Now, do you see what I am talking about!!! Those kind of words are negative and hurt deep when you hear them all the time!!!! That is just an ounce of it. Try 18 years of it! Negative thoughts and words are from Satan. Positive words are from God!
Sorry you experienced such a nightmarish childhood. I know what it's like to be tortured. I, too heard those things as a child, along with regular beatings...for 18 years. But in my case, the person doing the torture was an ordained minister. It appears that negative words DO come from God.
Well, I agree that negativity breeds negativity. I do feel that many comments made by Christians in defense of their belief fall into the arena of negativity. Which breeds negativity in response.
It would be nice if we could all find a way to be open minded so that the dialogue could be positive.
There is a big difference between knowledge and negativity. Part of science is about understanding what, who and why we are. I could argue that you are being negative by not accepting knowledge and or science. When something good happens, God did it. When something bad happens, Satin did it. Are you not responsible for your own doings. Satin does not creep in. There is no Satin. Take responsibility for you actions. You left your home because your parents told you to cut your hair or clean the dishes? NOW, you tell me I'll burn in hell if I don't repent? How dare you. Did God tell you that I'd burn in hell? That's pretty negative.
You should seek out help.
God did not allow Jesus to go to the cross so He could retrieve him! It was His great plan to allow Jesus to go to the cross and die, so that we would wake up to the fact that He did it for our sins deliberately. You see Jesus is the son of God who is God in the flesh! That was his plan that Jesus would die on the cross as our Lord and Saviour of the world. It is up to us to receive Him so and believe that He did that so that we may believe and receive Him as our personal Lord and saviour. So that we may be with Him in the eternal life here on earth in the future to come.
"It was His great plan to allow Jesus to go to the cross and die, so that we would wake up to the fact that He did it for our sins deliberately."
How is that a great plan. What do our sins have to do with his dyeing on a cross? What if history has missed the point and he died on the cross because no one was there to save him. So we made a martyr of him.
It has everything to do with His death. He allowed His blood to be shed in payment for everyones sin who believes that He did so. Those are the ones who will be in heaven and spend a thousand years with Him here on a new Earth with Him.
History did not miss the point, you are missing the point! Jesus told his Deciples, when you see me you see the Father. They are the trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. they are all one, but they at the sametime are all three, cause God is Omnipresent, (He is everywhere), Omnipotent (all power in everything), and Omnisent (Knows everything). God was here long before you and I were born and he will be here long after, thats one power you don't have and never will, and God also tells us not to throw our pearls before the swine. I will be praying for you, blessings and have a nice day!
Please don't, it's a waste of your time. I truly feel sorry for you. You are unable to use your brain. Critical thinking is what makes us human.
Critical thinking makes us human...? Fellow, what about finally coming to an answer that works or at least recognizing one. So, far your are leaving the box going nowhere. Great thinkers develop answers, not just trying to tear up the box. Boy hiddy! How dumb can you get!
Can't you see that everyone tells you the same thing. Think. The words that come off your keyboard are always empty.
Yes, Critical thinking separates us from other animals. It brought us out of the middle ages.
Your comment makes no sense. " Fellow, what about finally coming to an answer that works or at least recognizing one." What does that even mean? What is the "one" you are referring to?
I'm not sure why you think I'm going nowhere?
And then you call me dumb, you need help. Please go get it.
How dumb are going to sound? " Fellow, what about finally coming to an answer that works or at least recognizing one." What does that even mean? What is the "one" you are referring to? This is a sentence that a six grader could comprehend. I draw on one expression from "thinking out of the box" in which 99% of Americans is aware and understand.
I can't help you now because I debating with intellectuals concerning all encompassing life.
Corrections. You are not DEBATING with anyone, because you lack the the ability to discern reality. The only thing you appear to be doing is to make yourself a laughing stock.
Sorry. My debating extend beyond the mental capacity of a pin head.
My four year old nephew would actually win in a debate with you, because you have presented absolutely nothing to defend your position.
Your whole outlook on life is too absurd to even attempt a debate with anyone beyond the level of a 5 year old.
Every time you post anything, it is thoroughly challenged and debunked...making you look foolish and very dishonest. If I were you, the shame would be overwhelming.
Good thinking. The only proof for the existence of God is the Bible. If it was written by God it should be perfect. There are too many conflict-ions, The science of the bible and the Koran does not add up. Why would a God command worship? I don't command worship from my kids. It's just not a nice quality. But if someone shows me how it is a good quality I'm willing to listen.
The only proof for the existence of God is the Bible.
- - -
I can't agree with this statement.
If it was written by God it should be perfect. There are too many conflict-ions,
- - -
Today is more than 1900 years after John wrote the book of Revelation, and in it, it is written that a great organization will rise to power which forces people, great and small to worship it. No ands Ifs or Buts, about it.
Many people interpret these visions as a one world government joined together with a one world religion. A universal religion/government so to speak
This religion/government was not accused of teaching an all out lie.
If it did teach an all out lie, it would not be able to fool even the elect, which it is said to do.
It will teach many truths yet be guilty of Blasphemy. And many will be killed for the sake of the power of this blasphemous religion.
Many contradictions will be created which will help to hide its true identity.
Is this a futuristic event yet to happen?
Or .. can we see these things as being already past.
“How many reasons are there” for people to discount the possibility that these things have already occurred.
At that time in history, the Roman Empire was in controll of the greatest portion of the known world. And it established a universal religion which soon surpassed that of the Roman Empire, soon to be known as the Holy Roman Empire.
Contradictions in scripture? You Betcha! Got to have them.
They keep us divided.
We keep argueing about the small stuff and no one sees the big picture.
I ask again; how many arguements are there against these prophesy having already being fulfilled?
I think they will be very few and be supported with a wild streatch of imagination born from a false interpretation.
If this makes me a blasphemer am I blaspheming GOD or the church.
And If you believe that I am comitting blasphomy against the church ?
Well, that proves my point.
Personally I would Interpret those words to indicate Christianity. "All people, great and small, will worship it". Or at least pay lip service to it while in public.
How many non-Christian presidents have we had, again? Or that didn't at least profess to worship the Christian Diety? How many have not made a practice of going to a Christian church to worship?
There you go trying to join Religion and Government together. That why have a separation of church and state makes sense. Just look at the middle east where no such separation exists. Look at the middle ages. Religion and politics don't mix well. This is why Atheists have a problem with theists, they want take away this much needed separation.
There, King David wasn't talking about himself; he was prophesying about the coming Messiah.
2Samuel tells us that God promised David that the Messiah would come from his lineage. And He did. Through both Mary (literally, physically) and Joseph (by "adoption" or step-father relations).
Religion is a unifying force in any society. Socio-political machinery thru present technology can provide the adhesiveness presently to keep a mega-society together, but has more reasons for the citizens to rebel because the system can not compensate for all the intangibles of religions, and certainly can not affect the heart of men as does religions.
The act of coming together is for the people to confirm and receive inspiration. This I consider to be necessary for a harmonious coexistence. God's preference is to have the individual's love 24/7, and does not condemn if one don't attend church, but it is very positive for the individual to know where the common believers are gathering.
God has created us, barring Rad Man who believe he created himself, and has given us support in the form of the natural world. I have no problem worshipping God; as a matter of fact I get a lift!!
Any attribute can be given to imaginary entities, no matter how contradictory the attibutes are. As you remember, the God of the bible, who is omniscient, can't even recall when He created the sun...asserting that He created the sun on the third day. That's absurd according to modern science.
Wooo!!! You can't be that blind. The universe and life on Earth is not imaginary. Or do you think man created it and himself?
Who told you that God created the sun on the 3rd day? Is it in the bible? I have never read. I have read in the NT that the heavens are the handy works of God.
Genesis 1: 13-16
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
It is worded almost the same way in all versions of the Bible.
If you want to see multiple version of the bible at once check here:
My King James makes no refer to the 3rd day as to creating only the sun.
The big bang theory doesn't say that the universe was instantly created. God is omniscience; therefore, the bible is correct. God is timeless, and not bound by time; one day to God is like a thousand years to man is only one example, and it is not binding to timeless God. The sun could have been created on the 3rd day in our Creator's time which is not the same as man's 3 day time.
Make God the truth, and every man a liar.
I don't think that was the point, of course the universe, et. al. is not imaginary, but was it created on the third day as God says or in the first instant after the Big Bang, as science is 98% certainly actually happened?
Omniscient is an attribute man says God has, yet the Bible, which is God's word, has the creation of the universe on the wrong date, which, of course, implies God cannot be omniscient -- a contradiction.
The big bang theory doesn't say that the universe was instantly created. God is omniscience; therefore, the bible is correct. God is timeless, and not bound by time; one day to God is like a thousand years to man is only one example.
Make God the truth, and every man a liar.
Actually, the Big Bang theory does say the Universe was created in an instant. When it appeared in a form where matter came into existance, I will grant you, it was extremely small, but it grew and 13.75 +- .01 billion years later, we see it all around us at its current size.
As to your thousand years assertion, I won't argue with you about that but I suspect a few million Christians might, while, of course, a few million others will support you; it all depends on which of the thousad demomination they belong to.
Most fundamentalists take the Bible literally, so Day one means one 24-hour day. Many non-fundamentalists, like you, don't take the Bible literally, so a day is just a metafor for 1000 years, However, just for the light to happen as mentioned in Day One, that day would have to be over 300 million years in length, since it wasn't until then that the universe cooled enough for light came into existance. But then you run into the problem of Day and Night which God also created on Day One. You see, to have day and night, you need a sun and planets that revolve on their axis; I would have to look it up but let's say that took another billion years for all of the hydrogren to coelese into the first sun and planets.
Assuming Day 2, 3, and 4 are about the formation of the Earth, another 8 billion years had to pass. Then Days 5 and 6 took an additional 2 to 3 billion years for the first forms of life to appear on earth.
Those are really, really long days.
How do you substantiate your theory regarding the "Billions of years" you elude to? If God says he did it in one day, who are we to say "NO" your wrong your lying to God?
By simple observation and using the mind God gave us. "Billions of years" is established fact, not theory. Of course, you could be one of the faithful who believe God simply made the earth "seem" that old, when it really isn't, thereby making science pointless and useless. It seems a shame all of those monks and Jesuits wasted their time centuries ago studying an illusion.
The bible clearly expresses that it took time to create the universe. God, being omniscience, executed an instant and perfect plan. God is timeless, but we are caught in the dynamics of time.
Well, if the bible says so then it must be so. The bible says God created light and day and night before the Sun. I guess because the bible says so it must be so. Lets throw out everything we've leaned in the last 400 years and go back to the middle ages.
The ones who were less electronic-dependent, did seem to have higher cognitive function, when concerning the majority, so I wouldn't totally sell the ancient beings short, as you are itching to do...
Make the Word of God true and every man a liar.
Well, day is simply the quantum of energies that the eye can detect, and night is w/o energies that is in the visible spectrum. I think your day and night started way before the sun was created as the Word of God is far ahead all of us humans. (E=hv, a quantum of energy expressed by quantum mechanics.) Frequency (v) goes to infinity and goes to infinitely small; h is Planck's constant for the distribution of energy in the universe. The eyes only detect a small bandwidth of energy of the frequency distribution which gives us the varying colors. Color only exist in the mind which is another pleasure that God has given us among many others.
In part of Day 1, roughly 300,000 million years long, God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness."
To be accurate, the Bible should have said, "3 And God said, “Let light come from the darkness” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and light was separated from the darkness."
That fits reality and doesn't really change the meaning much, does it. While your physics are quite correct. they miss the point. "Light" is photons, a massless particle which vibrate just as you suggest along all possible wavelengths. Photons are packets of energy that travel from one place to another and prior to 300,000 million years after the Big Bang, that simply didn't happen, the Universe was opaque, dark in other words.
The reason is that it was so hot and so dense, photons couldn't be produced in such a way that they didn't instantly disappear, there was no light because there were no photons. When the universe had expanded and cooled enough, it was less dense and photons, light, could finally escape. Until then, however, there was only darkness.
And, because that is the way it actually happened, that is also the way God planned it to happen, irrespective of what the Bible says.
(And, because that is the way it actually happened, that is also the way God planned it to happen, irrespective of what the Bible says.)
How could you possible know that? The bible is the only word of God you have. If it's the word of God, then it is just that.
If you were an observer as was God, than your eyes would have detected colors even if the universe was in a plasma state for a few seconds. Before the big bang the universe could have been condensed matter the size of a golf ball. This ball was in a void, utter darkness, nothingness. Photons began going every which way while filling the void. There were never was an opaque state unless you are referring to the ball of matter which possessed infinite density.
You justify everything. Just make stuff up. The truth is you have no idea. You weren't there. Day and Night before the Sun. You can't justify that. It's a mistake. Deal with it.
You have a severe reading comprehension problem. I stated that your God is imaginary...hence, your silly God has nothing to do with the universe.
This question is irrelevant and completely absurd.
You are standing on nothing. How in the world are you going to be able to help yourself and other people?
And you stand(with arrogance and foolish pride) upon the false foundation of a silly, primitive man's concept of reality.
Your comments are becoming more and more disconnected from the real argument. This question has no pertinent value to this conversation, whatsoever.
In fact, you have not said much that made any sense. Stop wasting our time and go back to talking to your imaginary friends, as your mental state is not conducive to intelligent debate...or anything intelligent, for that matter.
You have not posed anything challenging, and your irrelevant, silly statements are completely non-stimulating and foolish. This train of thought lacks lucidity.
I know this convo isn't mine, but still, I can't help but laugh at you, as you so awkwardly promote the phrase: "Never underestimate the power of denial." Perhaps you should refrain from fictional writing and start thinking, instead...
By the way, you mention things like foolish pride, arrogance, false foundation, primitive man's concept of reality, etc., while using WHAT, may I ask?
Oh, you used your own foolish arrogance of feign pride to ground this foundation of YOUR beliefs? Just asking, of course, as I'm yet to see any difference from your reply as opposed to what you ever-so dearly speak against; interesting that......
Let me guess...you want to appear to be mysterious and uber-knowledgeable...while asserting drivel.
Sorry, but I'm just not impressed.
Everything is considered drivel via the infantile mentality that you seem to possess. Nice emotican, by the way; ya got any more? LOL!
No everything is not considered drivel. Only drivel is considered to be drivel...and those things include your posts here, and your ridiculous hubs.
My dummy hubs are still deeper than your inane scribblings, but thanks for the insults. (Backlinks are bliss, ya know, for SEO, duh!) At least I get regular checks by way of Google, due to my other 400+/- articles online.
What do you often write about, other than how you hate Santa Clause?
Oh, your novels... Dang, I'd hate to be your editor!
Com'on, surely you'll post something on here eventually that doesn't mimic a jealous author, right? Hey, maybe sales will rise for you in the future, so you'll be less bitter towards people like me. Hey, I didn't become this great overnight, ya know? You can do it, too, with a little practice, hard work and education! LOL!
If you really are a fictional writer, then you must keep your creative imagination in the closet while at HubPages. Oh, I get it, you're in a state of writer's incognito...
And I should care about this, why?
Too silly for an actual response.
Silly unfounded insults only make you look silly. Of course that's normal for some people.
As long as my IQ is above moronic, I have no reason to be jealous.
Megalomania is a psycho-pathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, or omnipotence. 'Megalomania is characterized by an inflated sense of self-esteem and overestimation by persons of their powers and beliefs'.
If I am incognito it would be really absurd to have books selling on Amazon and at least ten other sites. Try leaving yourself a back door the next time. Temper your anger a little, then maybe you'll be able to think before blurting childish insults and making a fool of yourself. Just some friendly advice.
Do you really need that much space in between sentences...?
Yeah, everybody and their grandma has a book "selling" on Amazon nowadays...
I'm sure they are really good reads... LOL!
All you ever talk about is drivel or childish remarks, yet you are one of the most delicate, sensitive beings I have run across thus far, in the forums. Blah, blah, don't bother giving me a definition for such a common word. Actually, most people call it megalomaniac, but thanks anyway. Inferiority complex, ya got there? Please, don't take drugs for it, as there is still hope once you get over yourself.
Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.
Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.
An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure
You just used a "Wikipedia quote" as your reply, and you're telling me about psychological projections? LOL! You seem to be very touchy when it comes to psychological problems, but you still may need to go get further help. ...And obviously so; ha-ha!
Another contradiction is the Judeo-Christian-Islamic claim that God is infinite, the Alpha and Omega. Baruch Spinoza, in his proof of God's existance, goes to a lot of trouble to explain what it means to be an infinite God, but simply but, an infinite God must be all-inclusive, nothing left out. Yet, Christian's insist that God and humanity/nature are two separate enitities, existing in separate spaces; that they are not the same. By definition then, that God cannot be an infinite God, because there is something that God isn't, to wit - humanity.
Then God would also have to be the devil too.
Yes, if there were an actual devil, that would have to be the case because to be an infinite God, nothing can be left out. I think the "devil" is something else entirely, it is part of us, and many other animals; Freud called it the Id, part of the Id, Ego, and Super-ego trio that makes up most mammilian phsyche.
BTW, in terms of Descarte's "penneil gland" concept of where in the body the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God joins the Body. Using the Freudian model, this would be the Super-ego which functions as the "soul", the conscience, of a person where the knowledge of right and wrong reside. In other words, ethics and morality are a built-in function of humanity; how we choose to excercise that knowledge is what makes us a good or bad person.
Personally I would Interpret those words to indicate Christianity. "All people, great and small, will worship it". Or at least pay lip service to it while in public.
= = = =
The church that the Roman Empire built which incorporated pagan beliefs into their doctrine.
The church which first began to interpret the teachings of Christ such that his words do not mean what he said.
An organization which self professes their leader as Gods one and only authority on earth.
And after this, another beast rises up out of the earth and makes an image of the first organization (Islam)
And after the 1000 years are fulfilled and Satan is released out of the bottomless pit. And the sixth bowl is poured out, three spirits come out of Satan’s mouth, and three spirits come out of the mouth of the Beast, and three spirits come out of the mouth of the False prophet.
NINE spirits go out into the world and causes the kings of the earth to gather for battle.
Those scripture does NOT say that Satan, the beast, and false prophet are friendly and are conspiring together,
Just the opposite, they are opposed to each other.
According to what is written in Revelation, Gods word was twisted when this beast rises/rose to power.
And this beast was given 42 prophetic months to do its deed.
42 prophetic months ar equal to approx 1648 of our years.
This is what I understand when I read scripture, Guess I'm the only one.
Even though I do believe in the God of Abraham and that Jesus is the Messiah foretold in the OT and that he did fulfill every prophesy spoken about him. I shall be shunned some more.
Fellow believers do not know how to answer my questions, According to my fellow believers it would be better for me if I were Atheist.
And NO I do not believe that they are going to burn in hell.
I believe that everyone upon death are going back to where we came from.
And upon hearing one simple thing, all of our questions will be answered.
Sorry this was so long, but believe me this is a short version.
I liked your response. You might try reasoning if you would like. There is no question in my mind the Universe began with the Big Bang. If so, what was it that began expanding into what we now see around us? Nobody has a clue, of course. To me, that thing is the God I believe in.
All faiths imbue in their God or Gods with having created all that their is, whether in a thinking manner or not, but in almost all cases, they give Him (sometimes it is a She) a personality; I can't do that, nor can I separate my God from Nature, because God IS Nature. Every basic precept of the Christian model of God (not the Bible), other than the thinking part, fits within my view of God.
As a consequence, I have ended up very serene in my belief with no conflicts or contradictions in its theology. Oh, btw, I have also ended up a pretty nice and good person which, to hear fundamentalist Christians tell, is impossible because without having accepted Jesus, there is no way I can know right from wrong.
H7812 - shachah - especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God, bow, down, crouch, humbly beseech, make obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop
in the greek the meaning is the same.
So you are at a football game and your team is behind, 20 seconds remaining your player intercepts the ball and runs downfield to score a goal winning the game!
You sit there expressionless, get up and walk back to the car.
Did you have a good time? Was you joy about your team expressed? Did you feel elated in the victory?
God works everyday in His peoples lives and why should we not be excited or pay homage to the one who scores a touchdown all the time.
those who invented god where humans and humans need acknowledgement..humans thought god they created needs worship ...
Humans created nothing, they were created by God. If the Big bang was to create something then it would be easier that pens come to existence after the big bang rather than humans.
Yeah right...and it seems that that same God, that you speak of, had to solicit the aid of humans to write down his story. Since your God is so omniscient, what was wrong with his awesome power? Huh?! I mean an all powerful being who can't even write his own book?! Get real! What a stupid con game.
I don't get your point. Who needs a book? God? Lol. If you're talking about the Holy books He sent to humanity, then He doesn't need them. He is the one who sent them down to show guidance to the ones who denied His existence and to those who associated partners with Him and to show people the way they should worship Him. The words there are His. So who wrote a book for whom?
It would seem you have things turned around a bit, humans created the pen, you refer to, an inorganic, non-living thing that requires intelligent assymbly to operate. However, since God is the stuff, the template if you will, from which the Universe came from, and because humans, in fact, do exist, then humans, and all life, had to evolve from God via the Big Bang. And, because humans created the pen, it came into existance because of the Big Bang.
This in no different than saying some very smart God, who happens to have an inferiority complex, if His need for worship is to be believed, pulled all of the stuff together that is needed to make man and then does so; after which he stands back, because He and His Creation are two different entities, and at some point has a pow-wow with Satan in Heaven whose outcome leads to the torture of Job. How does that make sense?
In both cases, humans are a result of God's creation, my way is just much easier to understand and believe in.
God doesn't need to be worshiped. He wants to be worshiped but he doesn't depend on our worshiping.
Every invention of humankind has a purpose. Until now, I've never seen an inventor working on something that has no sens (at least for him) even if people see it silly.
The same logic applied, the purpose of our existence is to worship God since we are His creatures, He is free to choose for us the purpose He wants.
Now it appears that you know what God thinks. I guess this makes YOU omniscient as well.
The fact is that you don't know any more than anyone else about our existence, or who God is, or if there is even a God period, let along what he desires.
This "logic" is completely absurd.
As you wish. Take it the way you want. It doesn't bother me that you keep thinking so.
Thank you for giving me permission. Yes, I'm pretty sure that the only God that you think you know is a delusion that is only in your head. But you are welcomed to think whatever you want, no matter how ridiculously absurd it sounds...just as long as I can offer my rebuttals.
God in no way need worshipping. Worshipping God is for the benefit of man or individual like praises go up, blessings come down. It's impossible to out give God.
He just doesn't want us forgetting how all this got here.
If it is for man's benefit, then why are they commanded to do so or otherwise be punished?
That's more like "It's best that you do." There is no punishment by God and it's not any where in the Word of God. The concept is liken unto if you shun God's salvation, than satan, the ruler of this world, shall do his thing on you. Satan punishes; God saves. There are no neutral grounds between good and evil; the both continues to wrestle with each other.
Well I guess your God created someone to do his dirty work. Kind of like a Mafia boss hiring a hit man. LOL
Did you know that Jews don't believe in Satan as Christians do. As a matter of fact, they would even tell you that the Christian view of Satan is like he is a borderline God. Supposedly, Satan, as mentioned in the book of Job, is only a messenger of God to test his children. That's it. He is not all knowing and capable of affecting the human race to the extent at Christians seem to believe he can. They treat him as though he is almost omniscient, which many Jews find to be insulting.
There was a whole forum, about a month and a half ago maybe, about why Jews don't believe in Jesus and why many of them see know need to become Christians. It was quite an interesting read.
Interesting isn't it. Christians that God when they accomplish something (no self esteem) and blame the devil if something doesn't go there way (no accountability). She complains about negativity being brought on by Satin, but she tells me I'm going to burn in hell if I don't repent. She didn't like it when a parent told her to cut her hair. AND SHE IS OKAY WITH ALL THIS. Makes my head spin.
Yes. Satan's rebellion in heaven answer the question whether or not we shall have free will in heaven.
The following sounds like "need" to me, doesn't it to you?
'And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
1.You shall have no other gods before me.
2.You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
3.You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.'
The first four "Commandment", before all others, deal with how God "wants" man, and presumably women, to observe Him; those words above leave no room for quibbling.
I need to highlight a few particularly disturbing phrases in these "Commandments".
1. "You shall have no other gods before me." - an admission other gods exist.
2. "For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me ..." - exactly what did the second through the fourth generation do to deserve God's wrath? This was one reason I am no longer a Christian. Further, because Man used the free-will God supposedly gave them, if they don't use it exactly the way God wants them to, they, and all of their children, and their children, and their children will be punished for it.
Yep, just like the kind of God I would like to love.
When looking thru the Word of God, we have a choice to worship God or not. If we choose not to worship God, we are not immediately vaporized, but it is best to worship God; praises go up; blessings come down from God. If not desiring the benefits, gratuities, than there is no need to worship God. God has not placed an absolute demand on us in which we have no choice.
How can you say "God has not placed an absolute demand on us in which we have no choice" [to worship Him]? Haven't you read the First Commandment? "Thou "shall" have no other gods before me" is about as absolute as it gets, isn't it? If you don't think so, please how you covert "shall have no other" into a choice.
In Commandment #3, God is telling you He is a "Jealous God", "jealous", doesn't that mean He will get pissed if you ignore Him? Then he says, if you do choose to ignore Him, He is going to make life miserable for you as well as your great-great-great grandkids. Please tell me how that is not "an absolute demand"?
I guess I really have to disagree with you, there is no question God HAS placed an absolute demand on us in which we have no choice for if we choose not to, we and all of our children, etc will be severly punished for that choice.
God has given us freedom of choice in all things. Many people have even choose to deny God, and they are still walking the face of this Earth with a life expectancy the same as all other people. "...have no God..."! Man, people have other Gods and no God who now live on the plant. I see the commandments as being absolute but it does not breach God's freedom of choice. That's why we have bad choices and good choices.
God created heaven and earth, and designed immutable physical laws alone with immutable mental laws. We had to be designed; thereby bound by our design.
You just can't have your cake and eat it too. God has given us life and freedom of choice whether to choose Him or not. Now we want to vote down His commandments because we want more freedom of choice? I have even heard a few people say that we don't have free will because God is omniscience and knows in advance what we are going to do. Can you believe it? Accusing God for being omniscience!! Huh!!!!! Talk to me.
I am sorry @wilmiers, I don't think I will ever get it. It is impossible for me, as a thinking person, to be able to reconcile this reality, if you believe the Bible to be the literal word of God, ... "you are free to choose a life of misery caused by me (visiting the inequities of the fathers on the sons ...), unless you worship me, then you will have all of the blessings I can offer." There is nothing "free" about that choice, instead you are being coerced by a self-professed jealous god to worship Him.
I also find it interesting that Christians define "jealous" as a sin; it is wrapped up in both the sins Wrath and Envy. Aren't the terms Jealousy and Wrathful often used in conjunction with God's emotions? What does that imply?
You are in a hopeless battle with a delusion. A delusion of which this person has given the keys to his life, while, smugly sitiing in the passenger's seat. Delusions will deny ANYTHING in order to survive.
You are an illusion of God who knows not from where he came and where he is going. And, sure you shall die. I would have made us to never die, but the Boss, our Creator, decided differently. I am sure He created you for some reason, but I sure don't know.
Yes I'm not special like you. I don't know where I came from or where I'm going. In other words, I'm honest and sane enough to live in reality.
And so shall you. This goes without saying.
So you, a puny mortal human, disagrees with God's master plan? BLASPHEMY!!!
He created me to stay in Never Never Land, and never grow old, and remain immature forever...wait---that's Peter Pan. I gotta stop mixing my fairytales.
I have noticed thru your writing that you hold God to our present standards, and does not give God His due respect, His providence.
But continuing, I would like to add regarding my literal believe in the bible. Let me qualify, I believe that spiritually, that is in our mind, the bible has a literal meaning. When it comes to the material world I believe that it has analogies, allegories, figure of speech's, smiles, and parables. Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within. When it comes to our relationship with God in the mind each word or phrase should be taken literally. Hold to it, and it will bring more understanding of God, bring one closer to God. The Word of God is first and always speaking of the supernatural. We have manifestations of the spiritual revelation in the natural world. Jesus says (paraphrasing) look inside yourself and talk with God in private and God shall show outward into the world. Lets not deplete the two.
God give us the right to name all things in this world. So, lets take Webster's definition of jealousy and wrath for us. God respects what is in Webster; after all, He gave us the right. God is not totally held to what our connotations are of any word. Although, since you inquired about jealousy, lets look at "God created us and predestined us to become as his Son, with His Holy Spirit. I would look at God is a jealous God as insisting that we are predestined and He has constant desire that we come to Him. God is a purpose unto Himself. God constantly calls us but we ignore Him most of the time. I can understand what jealousy of God apply in the bible or any other emotion. Attempting to bring God to court for a perceived offense using our standard is hopeless and stupid.
Jealousy has a propensity to sin. Envy and jealousy are two brothers. Wrath is more kin to revenge.
Since God is the Almighty Force of the Universe, He is known as the Devine Light. All you have to do is look at the lightening and know that!!! He is the One Most High. The Great I AM. He tells us that in Scripture. He is the most Radient One. He asks us to love Him and believe his words as if we are a child being told to by his father. If you don't do that, HE will not have a relationship with you. Everyone on Earth should pray and then they should meditate. Praying is speaking to God, meditating is waiting and listening to hear Him speak to you!! If you do that, HE WILL HEAR YOUR PRAYERS AND ANSWER THEM! "Ask and it will be given unto you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be open to you. For everyone who asks, receives, he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks the door will be opened". That was the prayer I said when I was a homeless teenage unwed mother, and God answered my prayer. That son is almost 50 years old. God really does exist and He does answer our prayers. I was blessed with 2 beautiful grandsons and they are in their 20's. We don't need to ask God why, we just need to ask him how. All He wants from us is our love!
But can you believe in that version of God and the Bible at the same time, the one in the Bible is not the one you just described? The God of Jesus is a lot closer, however.
He was the light in the burning bush that Moses spoke too. In the Bible he says He is the Great I AM. The verse in Math 7:7 about knocking and seeking.
God is a jealous God!!!More than most of us ever realize. We are connected to him by the silver cord. Eccle. 12:6 "Remember Him before the silver cord is severed. He showed me that in a vision before I even knew this verse was in the Bible. Then I went to look for it. We are connected to him thru the crown Chakra on the top of the head. We die when tthe cord is severed. I believe that many people who do not love God get their life shortened just because of that very reason. His word tells us to honor our father and mother so that our life will be long on the face of the earth. Yet societys youth are turning away from honoring their parents and grandparents, as if that was not even written in the ten commandments, and yes I have children and I have experienced that!
And if you look closely at this toast you'll see Jesus there as well.
It probably is Zappa. I could have sworn it was Jesus. I guess I was mistaken. At any rate Zappa is a God as well.
It all started with Adam and Eve. God made us in his image so we could have life. Our destiny was never hell it was heaven until the serpent tricked Eve and Adam. We have to praise him to get to heaven, where we was already going to go anyway, but the devil took that oppertunity from us. The only way we could take our rightful place again is through who it came from, which is God.
And, of course, we are to just accept this silly sounding childish fairytale, without question, as sacred.
There are always questions that even the new believer never thought they would encounter, this is fine and as it should be. As much as the curiosity of the individual demands they will each according to their own desire search out an answer that is acceptable to them. If we criticize their necessity for an answer then we are at fault.
It is likened to a man who reads about darwin's theories and only having read small portion, saith to himself, I believe in this. Another man went to read and he readeth about karma, but not having read about the three different kinds of karma, he also saith, i believe in this. So they both go about and spread the news of their beliefs.
To the first man, gaps in darwins theory are revealed unto him and he saith, i hear you not, and the second, refutes the angry blue elephant.
A third man hears all this and says unto them Why do ye not search out your ideas more fully? and they reply, we are content.
The fact is ..... when ever we hear the truth we just step over it and keep on going; pretend we didn't hear it! Got to , Cause we don't want the the quest to be over.
Why do we argue about the little shit and ignore the stuff that really counts.
You said whenever we hear the truth we just step over it. That is what i see here. In God there is nothing to be afraid of and in the bible it said the battle isnt ours for its the lords. You are trying to fight something without and accurate belief. God also said it is a lot we do not understand.
You keep referring to the Bible, you put all of your trust in a book written by man about God that has been translated so many times, it bears no resemblance to the original; you are putting you total faith in somebody else's imagination. Even if God did write the original version, that is NOT the one you are putting your faith in and suggesting that I take to heart.
And the latter arguments don't even address the problem that today, there is not one Bible any more, but many versions all with different, sometimes opposing versions of God. How does it make sense for a rational person to buy into something that even the believers can't agree on.
Untill y'all figure out which one of you is right, I am happy to follow my own view of God which is much more understandable and closer to reality.
Jeremiah 13:16. Give glory to the Lord your God, before he causes darkness, and before your feet stumble upon dark mountains, and while you look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, make gross darkness. Which is a problem today.
I guess my point is that you believe Jeremiah 13:16, as you quoted it is the actual, true Word of God. But how do you know that? What you just quoted is from one of the many versions of the Bible published by men with and agenda. How can you be sure that God didn't say or write something entirely different, or never said it at all, only to have some man or group of men change it or add it to suit their needs, it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
What you have done is base your entire faith of God on the promise from a Church that has a vested interest in promoting its own version of reality and not on the actual Word of God. Isn't it really true that it isn't God that you believe in but your faiths version of what they think God is? If you were of a different Christian faith, you would believe in a different version of God, they smply aren't the same exact God, and they should be, shouldn't they?
That is why I don't base my belief in God on the writings of anything in particular but the collected wisdom of many, including the Bible.
Im using the version you understand because its obvious you dont understand the King James Version. Thats why you hate my religion now. You believe in Gnosticism, which is a diverse movement in the world. You believe that salvation was possible through some special knowledge, which was revealed to a select few, through a spiritual non-human source.
First, I don't hate your religion; what I hate is what the Chruch who runs it has done to people. throughout its 2012 year history, who disagree with their doctrine, the Inquisition, the burning of Joan of Arc (Catholic), and the Salem Witch Trials (Protestant), just to name three well known examples.
Second, I don't have a clue as to what Gnosticism is about other than knowing it is another version of Christianity. Nor do I believe in the kind of salvation you refer to, I believe in a different type.
Third, why do you think the KJV is the correct version and by the way, which KJV version to you hold to, the Authorized version, the Revised version, the Rivised version, the New Revised Standard version, or the English Standard version, there not the same, you know? Why wouldn't the Torah be more authoritative for the first few books of the old Testatment? Why isn't the New International version more acceptable, or how about the New English, The Living, the American Standard, or the Good News Bible?
Do you see my point? This is why I don't use the Bible per se, but draw on the wisdom of men much smarter than me such as Baruch Spinoza, Aristotle, Plato, Buddha, Jesus, and the Bhagavadgītā as well as being well versed in the science of how the Universe came to be in the first place.
You ask me questions, but not yet once gave a valid reason why you get wisdom from the selected few. Jesus is one, but why bother if your only going to believe what you want, use a given idea and try to make sense of it through your own understanding? Everyone has a title, but do people know your name? Dont get me wrong, I know when not to mention God because of situations like this for example, in schools, or at a job site.To get what I want I'll not mention God and know one can make me deny him, but when I get my foot in the door I'm going to tell my testimony. I know people do not support Christianity because Christianity give us to much confidence.
I ask you questions, but you haven't given me answers. I don't question your belief in God, even in a Christian God. What I do question is why you base that belief on a Bible that may or may not be the Word of God, why, whatever version of the KJV vs some other Bible? It is a legitimate question from the outside and one, I think, you would ask yourself.
What I believe or where it came from, wasn't at issue, I just used that as a contrast. But, since you asked. First, as you have seen from my other comments in this forum, to me God is actually the stuff from which the Universe was formed, in Barach Spinoza's vernacular, God was the first cause and all else both material and immaterial are simply instantiations of God. Spinoza developed a proof that God existed based on the geometry is proved, through axioms and thereoms.
My sense of ethical and moral behavior come from God, but what fleshes it out are the views of Jesus on how one should treat another (which is often not followed by Christians today and rarely followed from 700 - 1950) and from the writings of Plato and Aristotle. The Bhagavadgītā and quantum mechanics fills in a missing piece for me regarding how free will can exist in what would appear to be a deterministic Universe. Finally, from the wisdom of the Buddha, I get the idea of how to achieve an inner peace.
Works for me.
It's not so much worship as it is credit where credit is due. Man always takes all the credit for a job well done, and always points the finger...usually at God....when things go south. I think it would tick me off, too.
You couldn't be more wrong Druid Dude. Christian always give credit to Jesus. Watch the end of a football game and you'll here some give thanks for the win to God. As if God fixed the game because he was praised. Something goes wrong or is missing and they blame the devil. No Christian points at God when something goes wrong, that's the devil. God is perfect. If he was perfect why does he allow the devil to have power. Why not take the power away, perhaps the devil gives God worship and God want him to win the football game.
Don't get up in a heat, Rad. Obviously not talking about christians. They just don't get the full power of that which they worship. (Not true of all christians. If a christian gives credit where it is due, then they are not in cluded in the original statement.
I wouldn't be opposed to a religion that doesn't insist on blind faith. It wouldn't be for me, but would fill a need.
God isn't the detriment, it is man's interpretation of what they think God is and their insistance, sometimes violent, that others believe the same way; that is what is the detriment to society and freedom.
If you look at God being the same as Nature, then it becomes much more problamatic for it or man's interpretation to be a detriment.
Yes, but nature too can be methodologically measured and analyzed, and result in scientific truths which nullify more spiritually involving philosophies. If you're to examine nature you realize that there's absolutely nothing consistent about it.
Everything is working in a symbiotic relationship, and science states that even solid objects are vibrating slightly, it's tiny microscopic bonds sliding back and forth over one another. The foundations of our houses slowly deteriorating, too slowly for us to actually concern us. The constant inevitable future of death.
God cannot exist on a conscious level, he can't even exist on any level conceivable by humans. Imagine that you were to sit in a single spot on the surface of the Earth, you're immortal. You cannot die, and you see life fly by extremely quickly as if time were lapsing. You quickly see everything you know become engulfed by nature. Everyone you knew and loved would be dead. You quickly realize that everything you experienced was temporary.
This is quite a powerful state to be in, nothing would ever stay the same. Trees would fall and be progressively broken down into rich soil and nutrients. Fires would wipe out forests and pioneer species would salvage the nutrients left behind from soot and the forest would grow back to a climax once again.
All I'm trying to say is that God doesn't fit into anything rationally conceivable by our terms of existence. This whole planet is working in a symbiotic relationship to maintain life, be it our lives or a small insect feeding on a plant in the forest.
God goes against everything we know and see in nature, nothing lasts forever, everything is breaking down and recreating itself. The Universe favors change and variety, and us humans find content in eternity and the everlasting.
I no longer find content in eternity and the everlasting. I did when I was a kid, but some thought has taught me that when I die (and I don't like that I idea) I can't take my consciousness with me. It's a product of the brain. I can live on in my children. I had no consciousness before I was born. We have no consciousness durning surgery. I will have no consciousness when I'm gone. So I hope to live long and hard. I'm sure someone will tell me different.
I believe he should have our praise and our lives should be his. Why would he not be afforded praise and thanksgiving for doing all he does. We praise our self, friends and family when they do nice things for us. They have never laid down their life for the sake of many. I feel and believe with all my heart that to not praise and give thanks is a sin in itself, after all the sacrifice and the price he paid as randsom for a sinner like me.
God doesn't need worship. I believe that a true Christian will want to commune/worship with God themselves. 100% Christianity is real and good for all, but religion is man-made to put fear and rules upon people.
Yes it would be different in the Middle East with no oil, and yes some countries there treat thier women badly, but not all. Why do the Middle Eastern people hate Americans and Europeans......actually they don't, but they do dislike the politicians and the controlling goverments.
Rad Man , I am in complete agreement with you.............Sharia Law is bad!!!
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