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Do you believe in Hell?

  1. A Thousand Words profile image80
    A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago

    If so, why?

    If not, why?

    (I am not only talking to Christians, because they are not the only people who believe in Hell)

    Do you believe it justified, if it does exist (in your opinion)? If so, why?

    1. mischeviousme profile image60
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It depends on what you mean by hell... I think hell is more a state of mind than any litteral existance...

      1. justuhmaina profile image59
        justuhmainaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        life is a state of mind. It all depends on being true to what one believes. I believe we are in hell now. Others believe we all go to hell when we die. Truth is, when something is not working properly, it IS hell

    2. 0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      NO

    3. nightwork4 profile image60
      nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      not in the least. it's like heaven, god and satan, little tales to make people scared and to keep them in line.

      1. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So the existence of eternity is a fairy tale too?

        smile

        1. nightwork4 profile image60
          nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          of course it is. i doubt almost anyone really believes it but they sure want to.

          1. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh many many people believe in it. It drives them to be a certain in this life. Many MANY people believe in it, and don't realize how ridiculously egocentric of an idea it is. That your being is so very important that your soul will "live on" even after death. I believed it once. It helped me to get through the day.

            1. vector7 profile image59
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm disappointed.

              Maybe you can see how ridiculous the opposite is, as the facts prove the "egocentric" truth.

              That was rather harsh, btw. [maybe no name calling?]

              I did not write the Law, I simply studied and learned it.

              smile

          2. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, well.. Hook, line, and sinker.

            I was hoping you'd bite, and confidently it seems as well.

            The Law of Conservation of Energy dear sir.

            Energy itself is eternal. Something cannot be eternal if there is no such thing as eternity.

            Some of my most stubborn opponents here won't deny this fact I've pointed out, so please don't make me elaborate. wink

            Eternity exists Mr nightwork4.

            And science has proven it.

            smile

            1. nightwork4 profile image60
              nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              science has proven no such thing bud. it's one of those things that science hasn't even touched in depth yet.energy may be eternal to some but in reality, everything dies. that's reality. sorry.vector7, i'm glad i made your day and bit, but i'm happy to say i bit with common sense not drable.

              1. vector7 profile image59
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol,  I could he been nicer about it for sure.. But whether you accept it or not doesn't matter.

                Energy is eternal. If you can't see that then there is no use of me replying again after this.

                Have a good one Mr nightwork.

                Apologies for being, well, not so kind.

                Working on doing better.

                smile

                1. nightwork4 profile image60
                  nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  actually energy hasn't been proven to be eternal so your opinion is not only humorous but your arrogance is rather cute. as for you replying, do you seriously think someone like you matters to me , surely you jest.

                  1. vector7 profile image59
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    It was just an agreement to disagree and an apology Mr nightwork.

                    I didn't claim to matter at all.

                    Have a good one.

                2. brotheryochanan profile image59
                  brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  An 8 billion year old sun speaks to me of the possibility of eternity. If dating the earth is correct and some stars are correct then to think that it took some time for our sun to be here speaks to me of eternity.
                  Created things are usually outlived by the creator. Usually.

      2. Elijah7 profile image60
        Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hey nightwork - WRONG : go here :

        watch this video below (in two parts) :

        This man died, saw hell and heaven and then returned. Have met
        him personally - ALL IS TRUE - 100%

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIEDQR09 … r_embedded

        Blessings In Truth.....

        Elijah

        http://www.Constellation7.org

        † Matthew 3 : 16 - 17 †
        "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:
        and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God
        descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

    4. SandyMcCollum profile image84
      SandyMcCollumposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I believe hell is here on Earth, and like life, it's what we make of it. Since Jesus died for everyone's sins, it doesn't make sense that He'd save a place for some to be punished. Earth is the place where all the suffering and hardships are. Heaven is truly Heaven because it is not Earth, although there are some really beautiful places here. Just mho.

      1. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It doesn't make sense to say Jesus saves and there not be a place from which one is to be saved...

        Or to pick and choose between His teachings. He taught of the place.

        Matthew 5:21-30

        smile

    5. MichaelGallinger profile image61
      MichaelGallingerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No, I do not believe in hell. If there is any where's the proof?

      1. Elijah7 profile image60
        Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Dear Michael,

        Watch this video below (in two parts) :

        This man died, saw hell and heaven and then returned. Have met
        him personally - ALL IS TRUE - 100%

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIEDQR09 … r_embedded

        Blessings In Truth.....

        Elijah

        http://www.Constellation7.org

        † Matthew 3 : 16 - 17 †
        "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:
        and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God
        descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

        1. mischeviousme profile image60
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It may be a fact that he died, what he said could very well have been lies. Of course he could've had a genuine experience, who's to say it wasn't imagined? If it was true, why are there not more cases like his? Why is not every doccumented case, tied in with such experiences?

          1. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            And a better question is why would God not let every human being alive experience this so that they could experience it all themselves?

            And then after such an experience, He could even appear to them, appeal to them in exactly the way that they need in order for it to sink in for them, and presto, everyone would know without a shadow of a doubt that He is real.

            (That would make it too easy, I guess. And that's no fun. hmm)

            But all these little VERY subjective experiences are still just hear say, and quite possibly tricks being played on the mind in those last moments.  Different people experience different things in their NDE (Near Death Experiences) and not all people with positive experiences are Christians. This shows the ambiguity of it, and their reliability is questionable. Who's to say whose experience was genuine and whose wasn't (meaning a Christian might claim that a non-bleiever with a positive experience was being tricked by the devil. I don't actually believe any of them to be true, but there could be some "truth" to a degree). People's NDE may be exactly what they need to experience personally, for self improvement, improved survival, etc., since they are indeed going to have to go back to reality. It could just be some trippy dream, that would have faded away had they actually died. It could be that the similar experiences are seen in the mind a certain way in many different people because those chemicals released cause certain hallucinations (quite similar to how taking certain drugs can give you similar and also different side effects depending on the persons physical make-up), and then a combination of what I said before. No one really knows for sure. And to base one's faith in something on hear say is problematic.

            Many religious see us analytics as heathens who look for every reason to disagree with them. There are some trolls out there, and atheists just as dogmatic as some Christians. But in reality, many of us take it more seriously then they seem to understand. At least the people in the same or similar boat as me. I won't just accept something as 100% percent truth just because someone else believes it is, (and it isn't provable) and are convinced in the wisdom of an old, contradictory book. Especially if it's all unavoidably subjective (this happens when there is mystery involved).

          2. Elijah7 profile image60
            Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hey - thanks for the reply. The Truth IS Out There. You have to WANT to find The Truth. The internet is a repository for facts and fiction. Here are The Facts you NEED TO BELIEVE :

            EVIDENCE : Internet Explorer Version :

            http://www.Constellation7.org/Constella … -Seven.htm

            EVIDENCE : All other browsers :

            http://www.Constellation7.org/Constella … -Seven.htm

            † Mark 16 : 15 - 16 †
            And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world,
            and preach the gospel to every creature.
            He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
            but he that believeth not shall be damned.


            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6442901_f248.jpg

    6. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Well, of course I believe in hell. I believe in God, and I believe that Jesus died to save me from my sins. But if He died to save me, what did He die to save me from? Not living my best life now?
      So I started reading the Bible, and Jesus talks more about hell than He does about Heaven, and He's pretty specific about it not being a nice place.
      You and I have discussed why I believe in God, but I am happy to go over it again.

    7. Dale Hyde profile image86
      Dale Hydeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Just simply NO.... Jesus did not teach it.

      1. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Then what was He talking about in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man? The worm  that does not die? Various sayings like that? Are you saying  that He never said those things (the position of the Jesus Seminar) or are you saying that He was actually saying something else and the majority of theologians and scholars just didn't get it, or that Jesus never existed?

        1. Disappearinghead profile image89
          Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't believe he was talking about hell in the Rich Man and Lazarus tale. It was a parable, not to be taken literally therefore. It also make no sense literally; no reason is given for the rich ban deserving hell, abd why was Lazarus specifically named? The rich man was dressed I purple which is significant too, as well as the number of brothers. I see it as a parable between the loss of Israel to the gain of Gentikes inthe kingdom of God.

          I have written a hub about this but I'm not allowed to advertise that in forumland.

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I disagree, but even if the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man was only a story, illustrative but in no way literal, then how do you explain all the other times Jesus talked about hell as a literal place?

            1. vector7 profile image59
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Not to mention Revelation's account.

              It's pretty descriptive and sounds pretty literal to me.

              1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Revelation cannot be read literally. Right from the get go, the angel stated that the message was a sign, thus symbolic, analogy, metaphor. Nobody would suggest that Jesus had a literal sword hanging out of his mouth, or that a woman can stand on the moon clothed in the sun, or that eagles and thunder could talk, or that a 10 headed dragon walks out of the literal sea.

                So if universally these are accepted as signs, symbols, analogies, there is no logic in then saying that the lake of fire is literal.

                Hell is derived derived from an Anglo-Saxon word that means covered, or unseen, a description of the state of the dead. Much like the Jewish definition of Sheol.

                Jesus talked about Gehenna which is the Greek rendering of the Valley of Hinnom which runs to the South West of Jerusalem. It was the local rubbish dump and regularly set on fire to cleans and purifiy, thus the flames were not quenched. The worm (maggot) did not die. It had a notorious reputation as this is where Israel sacrificed their children in furnaces to Molech. God proclaims his wrath upon these kings as a result. See 2 Chron 28:1-5 and 2 Chron 33: 1-6.

                Now if God's wrath is against Israel for sacrificing their children in flames, then how much of a hypocritical monster is God made out to be if we say he will do the exact same thing to those who died without believing in Jesus?

                1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Interesting.

                2. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Interesting, indeed.

                  So what you're saying is that since it is universally accepted that Revelation is full of signs, symbols and analogies, it therefore is not logical to say that anything in it is literal.

                  Therefor, to use your logic, since you are represented by an icon and use an artificially created tag meant to obscure you actual identity, it is therefor not logical to believe anything you say, or even that you exist.

                  Interesting, indeed...

                  1. Elijah7 profile image60
                    Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    True - except ALSO, The Book Of Revelation contains Visions of Future Events.

                    Since the Writing was Completed by the end of the First Century AD, we are NOW able to Pinpoint some of these - ACTUALLY, Some are Major, recent global Events & Topics of the 20th Century (and into this 21st Century) NOTE : 21st Century AFTER the Virgin Birth Of WHO ?????? hmmmmm - SEE - Not bad for ONLY a 3.5 year Ministry.  † † †

                    Anyhow, here's SEVEN of the bigger known Events & Topics (NOT IN ANY PARTICULAR PROPHETIC NOR CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER) :-

                    1). Deforestation.

                    2). Near extinction of certain whales and massive disappearances of cod in the atlantic and suchlike global overfishing.

                    3). Oil slicks, river pollution and suchlike, including red tides and the blood in the waters from Wars, particularly from 1914 - 1945 and other wars.

                    4). Chernobyl and nuclear power for electricity generation.

                    5). WW 1 & WW 2 (and other) aerial bombing campaigns.

                    6). The massive loss of life of young soldiers fighting against tyranny in the Big 20th Century Wars and the huge shipping losses in WW1 & WW 2.

                    7). The Crossroads' Pacific Ocean Atom Bomb Test (mountain of water)


                    Now see if you can READ properly (you have been rather RUDE with me) so forgive my somewhat abrasive attitude now) :-

                    NB : A Talent is approximately 100 lbs in weight (110 lbs)

                    † Revelation 16 : 21 †

                    "And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."


                    † Revelation 8 : 7 - 11 †

                    "The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

                    And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

                    And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."


                    Finally, for a more detailed translation of the above and a multitude of other Supernatural Proof Prophecies take time in this link below.

                    http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/Genesis/

                    POINT : Every Word of The Most Holy Bible is 100% PERFECT, ABSOLUTE TRUTH. You WILL Need The Holy Spirit to Help you. Am Praying He WILL, In JESUS' Holy Name - Amen

                    THEREFORE, Hell and Heaven are REAL, ACTUAL PLACES - Alleluia.


                    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6447090_f248.jpg

                    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6447097_f248.jpg

                    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6447101_f248.jpg

                    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6447104_f248.jpg


                    http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/Genesis/

    8. Elijah7 profile image60
      Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Only got ONE STATEMENT to Deliver to EVERY ATHEIST on the ENTIRE planet (this includes ALL peoples of every religion, philosphy, cult and suchlike) :-

      There is only one GOD. HE Wrote ONE HOLY BIBLE, in Hebrew and Greek, with some Aramaic & Tongues (Daniel), OVER A 4100 YEAR TIME PERIOD. He Created the ENTIRE UNIVERSE, past, present and future.

      He Lives OUTSIDE of Time and INSIDE Now. He is A Spirit In SEVEN.

      He Visited THIS earth ONCE as A Man (Mary's womb was broken once from THE INSIDE, not the outside).

      He was Crucified, Resurrected and Ascended and IS ALIVE RIGHT NOW. He Sees EVERYTHING By The Holy Spirit.

      He LOVES EVERYONE, and ONLY Seeks that they BELIEVE THE TRUTH and then RESPOND to that Truth.

      EVERYTHING IS ALREADY IN WRITING.


      He is PERFECTLY Fair and Totally Righteous.

      Every single soul GETS MANY CHANCES to Repent and be Baptized and to follow on to Know The Lord Intimately.

      Eventually, there is a CUT OFF date, when EVERYONE will have had the Chance To BELIEVE The Fundamental Gospel.

      What you Believe OR disbelieve 100% GUARANTEES your eternal destiny, BOTH now and FUTURE.

      There is an EVIL ENTITY responsible for ALL sin and carnage down through history, BECAUSE "IT" persuades people to DISBELIEVE God !!!

      The inherent nature of SIN in every soul only has ONE ANTIDOTE; This IS Provided IN THE IMMORTAL LIFE, BLOOD AND BODY OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ONLY - nothing else; NO-ONE else.

      This is Achieved By FAITH and OBEDIENCE, with some Discipline and Sacrifice.

      Only a sin-free soul receives ETERNAL LIFE One Day.

      Without The sinless JESUS all mankind IS DOOMED !!!

      Anyone who EVER reads this has a CHANCE NOW to defeat satan in THEIR OWN life here :

      http://www.Constellation7.org/TheSimple … fFaith.htm

      Take some GOOD ADVICE from An Experienced EXPERT :-

      Believe this and SAVE yourselves whilst you STILL have a Chance !!!

      This is NOT a threat, nor even a Warning.

      THIS IS AN IMMUTABLE FACT as REAL as this Universe is REAL.

      If anyone REALLY wants to KNOW how i KNOW this is 100% ABSOLUTE & TOTALLY FACTUAL, then WRITE ME AN EMAIL.

      It might help to let you ALL know, i HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE !!!!!!

      i am HERE AGAIN to tell you This Gospel Truth, in The Hope, you WILL Believe, and therefore, will NOT be consigned to HELL for over 1000 years into the future.

      ALSO, i cannot ABIDE the thought of satan OWNING your soul and taking YOU to the Lake of Fire ONE DAY, After The Final Judgment...

      http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6443710_f248.jpg

      That's it....

      Love, Hope, Blessings and Eternal Truth In JESUS THE SON OF GOD ALIVE IN HEAVEN NOW...

      Yours PERFECTLY TRULY,

      Elijah (my REAL name)

      Malachi 4 : 5-6

      http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=KJV

      † Acts 2:38 †
      Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you
      in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
      and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." AMEN & AMEN


      http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6443715_f248.jpg

    9. iefox5 profile image61
      iefox5posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Though I'm not Christian, I believe hell and heaven are there. Bad guys will go to hell and good guys to heaven after death.

      1. Elijah7 profile image60
        Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hi iefox,

        The Issue is WE ARE ALL BAD In The Eyes Of The Only Holy God.

        He Created Heaven, Earth and Hell and Revelaed Himself over a 4100 year period in The Most Holy Bible.

        The PROBLEM is inherent, inherited SIN.

        The ONLY Way to be "GOOD" is to Believe, Trust, Love and Submit to The Lordship of JESUS Christ The King.

        Once this is done, by Simple Faith in The Gospel, The Holy Spirit WILL Visit and Confirm EVERYTHING, over Time.

        The Best Route is Baptism (as an adult) - JESUS Himself was Baptized to Show The Way.

        Then begin Learning The Most Holy Bible and find a local Assembly and make friends (Full Gospel Evangelical is Level One, Top Notch).

        To help you GUARANTEE your own Safe Place In Heaven, One Very Fine Day, the Prayer to Begin The Journey is linked below.

        We WILL Pray ALSO, ESPECIALLY FOR YOU, because you were so honest.

        God LOVES Honest people.

        No shame in this at all. Once you have been "Awakened", EVERYTHING in the whole Universe and ALL things down here on earth, past, present and future, become CRYSTAL CLEAR.

        JESUS is Ready (In His Most Holy Spirit) to Receive your Prayer and Respond - The RESPONSE Is Absolutely Awesome - Supernatural, Loving, Kind, Forgiving and TOTALLY Revelationary.

        In fact man, HERE's The Prayer. This is between YOU and God - some quiet time and some meditation on The FACTS of Christ, and just a tiny Seed of Faith is ALL that is Required, In The Most Holy Name of The Lord JESUS, Crucified, Resurrected & Ascended, ALIVE In Heaven RIGHT NOW, for you PERSONALLY - Amen & Amen

        [AND for EVERYONE ELSE - Alleluia]

        Love, Hope & Truth...

        Elijah

        Just By Faith, PLEASE say the Following Prayer, Believing from your
        heart of hearts, to Meet Christ NOW In His Holy Spirit - Amen

        "i Believe that JESUS Christ IS The ONLY Begotten Son Of God.

        i Believe that JESUS Christ was Crucified for MY Sins and the
        Sins of ALL people who WILL Truly Believe In Him.

        i Believe that JESUS Christ Resurrected on The Third Day.

        i Believe that JESUS Christ Physically Ascended Back to Heaven
        Forty Days AFTER He Rose, Alive From The Dead.

        i NOW Ask For His Holy Spirit to Fill me and Forgive me for ALL my
        Sins, past, present and future BECAUSE i Truly REPENT of them.

        i Ask for His Holy Blood to be Applied to Cleanse ALL of my Sins.

        From NOW on i will Remain a True Believer In JESUS Christ, my personal Lord and Saviour, and will Commune with His Holy Spirit regularly by Faith and Prayer and Through Study of His Most Holy Bible.

        i agree to seek out a Full Gospel local church to be Baptized and Born
        Again, and will Honour His Sunday Assemblies at every opportunity.

        i renounce ALL the works of The Devil and Turn Away from
        ALL my past sins and Commit my life to The Lord.

        i will Trust JESUS In His Father God and be a Faithful Witness of His
        Holy Truth to ALL who have YET to Believe as i do NOW.

        i Ask Father, For The Baptism of The Holy Ghost and The Holy Gifts Of
        Thy Perfect Spirit, to be a Wonderful Christian soul ALL the days of my life.

        i have NO doubts Now and Know you have Forgiven me and Love me,
        and will NOW Guide me and Lead me as my True Father In Heaven.

        Lord JESUS, Hallowed Be Thy Name; Thy Kingdom Come - Amen and Amen"


        The Prayer was taken from this link below which is a Revelation Web Portal to ALL Facts Related to God, JESUS, Holy Scripture and Multiple Testimonies & Evidence. - Amen

        Please fell free to email anytime for more Encouragment and Truth - Amen


        http://www.Constellation7.org/TheSimple … fFaith.htm

        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6450580.jpg

    10. taw2012 profile image60
      taw2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, hell do exist.it is the other face of world where violence and pain dominates .

  2. wilderness profile image96
    wildernessposted 4 years ago

    Hell, Heaven, Valhalla, Purgatory, Oz, Wonderland, on and on.

    They are all equally real.  If a person can convince themselves of the reality of these places then, for them, they are real.  As real as Bigfoot or Nessie, as real as Thor or Odin, as real as Atlantis or Brobdingnag

  3. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago

    There is absolutely nothing that a hell could do that would come close to what I've lived through... So either hell does not exist or I've already been there.

    Sorry if that sounded a little melodramatic and emo but it is honestly the truth.

    1. mischeviousme profile image60
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Wanna see my scars or at least some x-rays. I know pain so intinmately, I almost love it. Hell is mental though, not so much a physical thing. Pain only worsens when it is obsessed upon, thinking about it only intensifies the effect of pain.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        *grins* My shoulder is currently out of socket because I no longer have a socket for it to be in.  I was going in for the final X rays before surgery when the neat little pregnancy blood test they give as a precaution before x-rays popped positive.  No surgery (high risk pregnancy) dislocated shoulder for the last 5 months and for the next 5 months.  50 lb daughter that has to be carried up 4 flights of stairs at least twice a day... Oh and did I mention 4 deliveries with NO pain meds at all?  LOL, wanna trade war stories (All of that was said in a playful mood btw)

        But I agree with you, mental pain is the worst.  Yet sometimes we really do need to dwell on the pain to get past it... sometimes I honestly think you really never should get past some things as well.  Sometimes holding on to the pain actually keeps you honest.  In my case, the reminder makes me a better person.

        1. mischeviousme profile image60
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          To be familliar with suffering, leads one to experience the greatest levels of joy. Joy and pain are polar opposites, though one could not exist without the other, nor the in between.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            For once I agree completely with you.

            1. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              LoL. For once. I'm glad my forum brought you guys on the same page, even if only for a moment. smile

            2. mischeviousme profile image60
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              My kung fu teacher was from a small villiage in Cambodia, one of the starving kids with the big belly. He knew suffering to levels unheard of in this country, though he's one of the happiest people I've ever met. He eats like there is no tomorrow, but his modesty abroad is almost disconcerting. In other words, he makes me feel like a jerk, as if modesty is not a quality I possess.

              The only pain I truly can say brought me any modecum of the understanding of joy, was the death of my mother. Though I did shatter my heel, spent a year in jail, I fell off a cliff in Utah, fell on a cactus in Arizona, took a knife in Tampa and I have arthritis.

              Though pain is powerful, life can have a potency all the same.

              1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Wowzers. I'm kind of speechless, as far as your unfortunate happenings are concerned. And I do very much agree with your last statement. And I'm also sorry for your loss (your mother). I'd be devastated if anything happened to mine.

                1. mischeviousme profile image60
                  mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  10 years and it still feels as if it were yesterday, I miss my mommy...

        2. A Thousand Words profile image80
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with you as well. There are some things that I do hold onto. There are some things that I can't. But, it does keep me honest.

    2. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm sorry that life has brought such things your way. hmm

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Oh my, I didn't mean to seem like I needed sympathy, but thank you.  I absolutely adore my life now.  As a bonus I have a new sense of perspective... the good things seem amazing yet the little irritations don't even make me bat my eyelashes.

        1. A Thousand Words profile image80
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, I didn't think you were. I just have a habit of saying I'm sorry to people when bad stuff has, did happen to them. Especially to such an extent. I have truly known despair before. That could've been described as hell, and all the physical symptoms that came along with it.

          1. Catherine Kane profile image86
            Catherine Kaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            One of the more useful things I have learned in life is that you can be sorry that something has happened without it being your fault...

            1. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh I am already aware, and it is an unpleasant thought, but I have decided not to let such things rule me. I have done my best to become my own person and overcome the the things in my past that led up to who I used to be. I just look forward, with a different outlook on life, and a new found confidence in myself, a the least selfish love I've ever dished out or received (including, but not only with, my boyfriend)

  4. 0
    mcals71posted 4 years ago

    I do, and if you want to know what hell is, and why I believe in hell, based on what the Bible says, you can read my hub on "hell, what and why".

    I realize that hell is a scary idea and for that reason it's a lot easier not to think about it, but choosing not to believe in the existence of hell doesn't make it go away.

    Sure, life is hard for everybody, and for some people this life can be a hellish experience, but nothing compares with the real thing.

    We are approaching Easter, which is the celebration of Christ's Resurrection. Surely if He chose to leave the comforts of Heaven and come into the world to give His life to save us there must be a very good reason.

    He came to save us from something awful enough that He deemed it worthy to suffer as He did (watch the movie: Passion of the Lord).

    So yes, I do believe in hell, but the fear of hell is not what motivates me to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord. What motivates me is my love for God and my faith in Him.

    1. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I do not believe in Hell. I want it to be clear that I don't, not because it doesn't feel good to consider that it exists, but that it has no justification, and it would also help to believe in spiritual realms, which I do not.

      Btw, did you mean "Passion of the Christ." I saw this movie already, if so. If not, then I'll look up the movie, although I already have a fairly deep understanding of the BIble from a Christian's perspective, as well as a nonChristian, as I am the latter, and was once the former.

      However, I will read your hub. See if there is anything that I didn't/haven't come across in my studies specifically concerning Hell. Thank you, mcals71.

      1. 0
        mcals71posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, I did mean The Passion of the Christ, A Thousand Words. I watch it once a year on Good Friday, (that's all I can bear) and still I can't remember the correct title, LOL! If you read my hub, let me know how you dispute it. I did a lot of Scriptural research when I wrote it, and I also used objective sequential reasoning. Looking forward to reading some of your poetry :-)

      2. Elijah7 profile image60
        Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hi there

        Please ensure that you watch this video below (in two parts) :

        This man died, saw hell and heaven and then returned. Have met
        him personally - ALL IS TRUE - 100%

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIEDQR09 … r_embedded

        Blessings In Truth.....

        Elijah

        http://www.Constellation7.org

        † Matthew 3 : 16 - 17 †
        "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:
        and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God
        descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

    2. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yet if I asked you to prove any of this, all you could show me is some 2000 year old book of childish fairytales. 

      There is no hell...only fearful delusional people, too afraid to think for themselves.

      1. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Consider that the fear is implanted into people so that they won't think for themselves, or can't think certain things, because it is under the influence of "Satan." What better way to control the masses? It took a lot for me to get passed this fear.

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, it was pounded into my head from about the age of 4.  Coming from a very religious family, there was no other reality.  Yet this is not reality at all. 

          Along with the fear of dying, the fear of ostracism, the fear of authority, and the fear of long dead charlatans...the fear of hell is the kicker.

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I understand your bias now at least.

            smile

        2. ibexground profile image60
          ibexgroundposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "ATW" very true but you cant throw the baby out with the bath water. I have asked myself that same question about the church's control over the people, the the churches control really didn't come until later. Maybe you haven't looked far enough into history or that we don't have overwhelming evidence, which can be tricky. I have read a number of patristic fathers that are dying horrible deaths not denying god. These people are primary and secondary sources that where with the apostles. Yes it is history but what do you say to that. I also do understand that this thought can go across the board as well.

  5. 0
    mcals71posted 4 years ago

    And yet I stated that the fear of hell is not what motivates me to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord. What motivates me is my love for God and my faith in Him. There must be millions of people who feel exactly the same.

    I don't come from a background of fire and brimstone, I wasn't raised that way. My Faith Journey has gone through twists and turns as it should, if people are to think for themselves, rather than accept everything that has been taught to them in childhood.

    I came to my conclusions that God exists, that there is a Heaven and a Hell, and that Jesus is my Savior through study, prayer and research, and without being pious or condescending, I'm truly sorry when I see people who are struggling through those same things, because I know from experience that deep inside it's an uncomfortable place to be, and it is a struggle.

    The reason why I say it's a struggle is because there will always be a void within, that calls to be filled and nothing will ever fill it, not permanently, because everything in this life is impermanent. So it's very sad, for those who have no faith, to lose a child for example, and to know that the precious little one has been forever lost to you because you have no hope to ever reunite with your beloved child again.

    If you do your research well, you will see that it isn't just the Bible that tells us about the existence of hell Getirite. Other religions (non-Christian religions) believe in the existence of hell also. Yes, even the Buddhists do. In the twentieth century there lived a man, known as Padre Pio, who bore the stigmata of Christ and who was regularly assaulted by the devil. The Church persecuted him relentlessly before finally recognizing that he was truly a man of Faith and a holy man. Read his Diary and his Epistolary if you want to do an un bias study on the subject of hell.

    1. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If I had a dime for every Christian who has made this statement.

      I see fear being the motivational factor...Fear of dying, fear of ostracism, fear of authority...which factors are motivating you?



      Do you really think that you are actually thinking for yourself.  I mean, someone has convinced you that a 2000 year old book of nonsensical, childish myths are the writings of a deity.  Please show how you could possibly be THINKING...at all!



      Well, something went horribly wrong with your method.  The first thing that you didn't consider was reality.



      Who are those people?



      Everything in the universe is not permanent. 



      Denying reality is no way to deal hardship.



      I can't believe that in the 21st century, I'm being told by an adult that it makes sense to believe in an extremely childish, psychotic delusion.  THIS IS ALARMING!

      1. 0
        kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        big_smile

      2. 0
        mcals71posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Pity.

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, your beliefs are pathetic.  It is apparent that believers just refuse to face life as adults, so they have to allow others to do their thinking for them.  Yep.  Pity.

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Matthew 18:3

            smile

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Matthew 18:3 And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

              And you're gullible enough to actually believe this con, huh?  What a pity.

              1. vector7 profile image59
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Your comprehension of the verse is not only questionable, but you supply the evidence in your post for concluding you indeed don't fully understand.

                smile

                1. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Pretending to know exactly what some Bronze Age goat herder meant when he wrote this ancient book of nonsense(because you possess some kind of "special" power)suggests a severe disconnect with reality.

                  http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l528/marlofamily5/smiley/crazy-crazy-mad-straight-jacket-smiley-emoticon-000187-large.png

                  1. vector7 profile image59
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't need to pretend anything.

                    It's not that hard smiley.

                    Study. Learn. Understand.

                    This is reality.

                    And your pictures and sarcasm don't make you look intelligent.

                    Seriously..

                    smile

                  2. ibexground profile image60
                    ibexgroundposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Its funny because if this goat header is right, well... Its a pretty depressing world then, and life really means nothing. U are correct with saying,                  " suggests a severe disconnect with reality", but that's the whole thing about it. There is more to reality then just on the outside, but its just speculation because at this time there are no answers for the meaning of life. there is an ignorance yet to have the answer.

      3. Catherine Kane profile image86
        Catherine Kaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        What I find surprising is the number of people in this thread who don't believe in Hell but are so threatened by folks who believe differently than they do.

        My experience has been that if people are discussing different beliefs, opinions or viewpoints, the person who needs to descend into name calling and denigration of their counterpoint is usually  lacking in belief or proof for their own arguments, and attacks as compensation...

        Just because it isn't your path doesn't make it wrong; and the need to batter other people into lockstep with your beliefs doesn't make those beliefs the only right ones....

        1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
          Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I feel very threatened by people who think that god told them to shoot abortion doctors or bomb abortion clinics.

          I feel threatened by people who think god wants them to fly planes in to buildings or strap bombs to their chest.

          Of course, if people didnt make it seem so acceptable to have unfounded beliefs that others could not question then it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

          1. Catherine Kane profile image86
            Catherine Kaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I feel threatened by those people too, but it doesn't mean that I'm wrong to have beliefs.

            And my beliefs are certainly founded, not unfounded

            There's no problem with questioning my beliefs. That's what we're doing here and, see, I'm responding.

            But here's a big difference between qestioning and attacking. Any time things descend into name calling, you know that spiritual interaction is over. And folks who insist on you proving your beliefs to them are often determined not to listen and consider. At which point, it's not usually a good use of time.

            Any spiritual path, including one that denies spirituality, is a very personal thing.  People can get directions along the way, but they have to find that path for themselves.

            1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
              Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Unless you can demonstrate your beliefs to be true, then they are unfounded. Believe me when I say, If you have proof for a god, REAL proof, I would be more than interested to see it.

              Most theists think that atheists are not listening and in my ecperience, that is because what they claim to be "proof" is not proof at all.

              People who claim that these beliefs are acceptable for anyone to have are simply making it easier for those who want to abuse those beliefs to make good people do bad things.

              Some people even do it to themselves. Thats the problem with personal beliefs, people can believe anything, and will do all sorts of terrible acts in the blind belief that they are doing good.

              1. Catherine Kane profile image86
                Catherine Kaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Now, this is the kind of talk I'm referring to.

                You assume because I'm a theist that I believe certain things about you. You assume I have no proof, and you state right out that you will not accept the proof I have. And you talk about people making claims that these beliefs are acceptable for anyone, when I haven't said any such things

                Your filter is as big a blinder as any other spiritual belief can be. And until you can see past your beliefs about what I must be because of the way you've  labelled me, you won't be able to actually hear anything I say or see who I really am.

                And that's kind of sad, really. I feel bad for you.

                1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I did not state that I will not accept your proof. In fact I said I would be very interested in it. Please dont lie.

                  I am assuming you dont have proof because I dont expect you to be a selfish person and if you are not a selfish person you would have shared this proof with the world by now.

                  I am also assuming that if you have already shared this proof, it actually isnt proof which is why I haven't seen it on the news.

                  I also did not label you. I explained to you that "most theists in my experience"....

                  1. Catherine Kane profile image86
                    Catherine Kaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    And this is the kind of circular logic that makes this kind of conversation less than useful.

                    If you've already set the parameters so that no proof will convince you, the indeed no proof will convince you

                    For many years, the coeloecanth was believed to be extinct because noo one had seen one. but that didn't mean it was.

                    Seeing something on the news doesn't automatically make it true, nor does its non-presence make it false. Indeed, the way Fox News has been acting, seeing something on the news might cause you to question whether it's true or not...

                2. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You know, about this proof thing.  It has become very clear to me that the one who asks for proof, most times unsincerely, is the one who should make themselves responsible for their soul to be ready to accept it.  Unless faith has been fine-tuned and the heart is willing, the proof cannot be interpreted or seen.  It's there but non-believers just can't see it because they aren't at that spiritual elevation.  It's like us thinking that radiation doesn't exist because someone can't show it to us.  It's only through education that we now know it exists.  We had to be trained and years of research in order to understand that proof.  It's the same with proof of the existence of God.  If someone says there is no proof for God, they aren't spiritual mature enough to recognize it.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Kind of like your 'proof' that corporations, world leaders and anyone who uses a star worships Satan? I believe Jesus made a comment about one must become childlike first. That doesn't mean ignorant and stupid.

                    That meant loving, trusting and not always looking to read evil into every action by others. I'm curious how 'spiritually mature' you consider yourself to be and how you came to your conclusions.

                  2. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I think that most nonbelievers are ready to accept any irrefutable proof that you have.  But that doesn't mean that we are required to be naive and foolish, making it possible for you to assert any and everything as truths.



                    Even with our faith fine tuned, and hearts willing, you are not given carte blanche to violate our trust with nonsense, asserted as proof.

                     

                    Spiritual elevation must be another word for willfully ignorant.

                     

                    NOPE.

                     

                    Yet the majority of the most uneducated people on earth "understand" your "proof"

                     

                    What's the difference between spiritually mature and psychotic delusion?  It seems that you are suggesting that one become psychotic in order to reach spiritual maturity.

        2. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You assume that I'm threatened.  Not at all.



          Your experience?  Really?  Sounds like wishful thinking to me.  Your beliefs violate the laws of nature, yet you believe that somehow the opposition would be lacking in belief or proof for their opposing view.  Sorry, but that's absurd.



          REALITY is not a BELIEF.  Some of us just accept reality, while others have a need to invent masters, so that they can grovel.

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Very defensive not to be threatened.. lol

            tongue

      4. Elijah7 profile image60
        Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Dear getitrite,

        Please ensure that you watch this video below (in two parts) :

        This man died, saw hell and heaven and then returned. Have met
        him personally - ALL IS TRUE - 100%

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIEDQR09 … r_embedded

        Blessings In Truth.....

        Elijah

        http://www.Constellation7.org

        † Matthew 3 : 16 - 17 †
        "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:
        and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God
        descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

    2. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I understand where you are coming from, Mcals. Hell probably wasn't a driving force for you, or at least not consciously. But my question be this. If there was no Hell, would you be as willing to "serve God?" I am asking this question genuinely. I would like to know your response.

      Because, you see, (in my opinion) without the idea of Hell, what Jesus "did" looses meaning and a lot of strength. If He did die on the cross for the sins of the world, why would it matter if there is no Hell? Sure, one might be able to live a better, peaceful, more "fulfilled" life by following his teachings, but there are other religions that offer the same, to different degrees, so Christianity would not have anymore appeal than any of the other religions that supply peace, a sense of purpose, etc. The whole idea that he even made such a gruesome sacrifice would be deemed unnecessary and probably not true, or as significant as it's made to appear (Jesus may have existed and even died on a cross, but this was a manner that many men died back then, and he said many things that would've been seen a blasphemous back then, so h was going to that cross regardless). The whole "he wasn't found in the tomb, but appeared before men afterward (with different accounts from different gospels)" bit would easily be seen as a manner of making this decent man legendary, as with any story-telling including embellishments, and people believing to be so because our nature of placing people on pedestals and with unreachable standards. (I'm not trying to offend you, this is a what-if scenario)

      Christianity looses it's power, it's potency without the idea of Hell. Could that be the reason why the idea was so heavily introduced? To truly spread, not only do you offer peace and love and joy, but the fear of a place that lacks all of those things and that burns like a thousand suns for all eternity, etc, etc. A very VERY affective method to produce followers. Introducing thoughts of being unsatisfied, and/or the necessity of a savior, and with it, a call for "order," unquestionable authority ("All men in power are so because God wants them there" (me paraphrasing a scripture) "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts..."Anyone who says there is no God is a fool and the 'truth' is not in him...") Many scriptures, themes in the bible/religion that hinder important thought processes.

      1. Disappearinghead profile image89
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The carrot and stick approach is very effective.

        If hell as described by most Christias I've met exists, why was it only invented 2000 years ago? The Hebrew scriptures do not describe such a place. Surely if people were in grave danger going there, God would have told them about it from the very beginning instead of the statements he made to the patriarchs that they would "rest with their fathers".

        1. Elijah7 profile image60
          Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Wrong - very wrong - Hell has been around SINCE the removal of lucifer from Heaven, BEFORE Adam was Created (4000 BC) [NB This earth is a PRISON for the exiled evil spirits of the fallen devils] THEY want to get as MANY souls DOWN THERE AS POSSIBLE. More fool you if you let their telepathic lies persuade you of the OPPOSITE of the REAL TRUTH...

          Now read on :-

          Psalm 9:17 (around 1000 BC in Hebrew)
          The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

          Deuteronomy 32:22 (around 1470 BC in Hebrew)
          For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

          Isaiah 28:15 (around 758 BC in Hebrew)
          Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

          HERE IS WHY HELL WAS CREATED :

          † Matthew 25:41 †
          Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:



          † HE IS JESUS THE FINAL JUDGE - AMEN †

          STUDY ALL REFERENCES IN DEEP CONTEXT HERE :

          http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?se … dsonly=yes

          AND HERE IS THE CONCLUSION (AT A TIME IN THE FUTURE AT LEAST [BARE MINIMUM] 1050 YEARS HENCE FROM AD 2102:

          Revelation 20:13
          And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

          THE GOOD NEWS IS HERE BELOW : THERE IS A SOLUTION - AMEN :

          http://www.Constellation7.org/TheSimple … fFaith.htm

          http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6443200_f248.jpg

          SEE FULL SIZE IMAGE ABOVE HERE :

          http://www.Constellation7.org/Idolatry666.jpg

          1. mischeviousme profile image60
            mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The only descriptive account of Lucifers fall, was in the book The Divine Comedy, also known as paradise lost by Milton. It's funny how it's taught as God's word, when it was clearly written in ink, on paper. I'd think that if it were "God's word", it would inherently be written on the hearts and minds of all peoples.

            1. Elijah7 profile image60
              Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              This surely is. It's called your CONSCIENCE. How about when you were a kid - did something REAL naughty, hoping NOT to get caught. Powerful adrenalin in your stomach, when even the THOUGHT of being caught occurred.

              ANYHOW, here is the Account of the REMOVAL of lucifer and the evil angels (devils) from Heaven down to this planet :

              Revelation 12 : 7 - 9
              "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

              NOTE : The "WAS" refers to PAST TENSE - BEFORE Adam !!!

              Isaiah 14:12
              "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

              POINT is, who are YOU going to believe - YOUR SELF, or "THE AUTHORITY" that Wrote The OLDEST History Book on the planet, that took some 4100 years to complete, by PROGRESSIVE and layered Revelation.

              In any event, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE by becoming a True Christian?

              SURELY, the alternative is TOO DIABOLICAL to even contemplate RISKING. You want to gamble your soul on a bunch of misbegotten atheist notions that hold ZERO evidence in reality?

              Then this Word is for EVERYONE, so deceived - > IN FOR A VERY NASTY SHOCK ONE BAD DAY in the future !!!

              Psalm 53:1
              The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.


              Again - HERE'S YOUR ESCAPE ROUTE :-

              http://www.Constellation7.org/TheSimple … fFaith.htm

              http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6443583_f248.jpg

              1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I did consider engaging with all your arguments, but I know it'll be futile. All I'm going to get is a load of badly translated bible verses and more links to badly constructed websites. Nothing in your posts tells me that you have studied the scriptures yourself, or have made any attempt to question the interpretations you have been spoonfed. I am certain that you would not entertain any historical evidence for the origins of these beliefs in lucifer and hell in the church.

                1. Elijah7 profile image60
                  Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  WRONG - Heaven, Earth and Hell are REALITIES. Every Word is 100% TRUE. Just because YOU don't believe this, makes ZERO difference to The ACTUAL Facts of The Matter. Remember, satan's greatest trick (with atheists) is to convince them of the OPPOSITE of the truth. That's the job of this evil, telephathic spirit entity. Why? God allows this in order to discover who is WORTHY of Heaven one fine day in the future. So far, most EVERYONE in this discussion has FAILED the test to date. THIS IS VERY VERY SAD. i am personally sorry. Instead of being so critical, TRY Believing and Watch what happens. God is ONE PRAYER Away - ALL THE TIME, In JESUS' Holy Name - Amen

                  † Matthew 24:37  †
                  "But as the days of Noah were,
                  so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."


                  http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6444204_f248.jpg

                  1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                    Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I was right then.

      2. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think another factor is the fear of dying.  That's why there is the fraudulent claim in Christianity that its followers will have EVERLASTING LIFE.  And even though heaven sounds like a place that no modern day person would really like to be for eternity, they have rationalized that it beats being dead.  But if they were actually sent to a place like that...a place where there is incessant worship of a psychotic, moody deity, they would want to exercise the option within days...even if the option was permanent death.

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Okay, but WHY is the claim of everlasting life fraudulent? These are the kinds of easy accusations I see slung around, but they usually are just circular logic (they are fraudulent because they are stupid, they are stupid because they are fairy tales, they are fairy tales because they are fraudulent, ad infinitum.)
          And why, I need to understand, would someone reject Heaven? Because God is "psychotic, moody and egotistical?" Well, gee Dr. Dawkins, that's swell and all but if God DOES exist and God DID create the world and God DID create human beings, doesn't that mean He actually has the power? Rejection of what we don't understand simply because we don't understand it (or worse, think we do when we don't) is not the same thing actually getting at the truth. It may be a rational, or at least "normal" human reaction to the unknown, it happens with all sorts of things. But if God DOES exist (and He does!) then wouldn't the intelligent thing be to try to find out what he wants and why it's in our best interest?

          An "intelligent" response that starts with the rejection of what you don't believe anyway, instead of researching whether it has any basis for merit or not, seems to be the way most people think. I used to be that way too, but now I just don't understand it.

      3. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'm sorry, but a book that predicts the future does not 'hinder' critical thinking.

        It means 'this is the answer, look hard for it is true.'

        If it hindered people from thinking what they want the post directly above this one would not exist.

        And if it said 'There is a possibility there is no God' then God would be lying about His very existence...

        How critical of God can you be?

        Now He is wrong for telling the truth?

        This is exactly why He also states, "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts..."

        smile

        1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
          Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Surely you are not saying that God wrote the bible?

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I'll never know how you came to that conclusion.

            smile

            1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
              Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              How can one infer anything else other than that god must have written the bible in order for you to claim the bible is his lie.

              How you can NOT understand how I reached that conclusion just goes to show that you dont even know what you are typing.

              1. vector7 profile image59
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'll never understand how you missed the sarcasm.

                [no sarcasm this time hippy]

                smile

                1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I see.

                  God wrote the bible. Indeed. Of course it was written by people though.

          2. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            God did write the Bible, He just did it using humans. He didn't override their respective personalities, but He did show them what to write.

        2. A Thousand Words profile image80
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "I'm sorry, but a book that predicts the future does not 'hinder' critical thinking."

          There's a specific reason why I didn't say critical thinking. If you had seen the conversation I was having with Chris Neal, you would've seen that I said that I thought critically when I was Christian. That's not what I meant by thought processes.

          I'm talking about those little thoughts that pop up in the back of your mind. The ones that either question God in general OR question why He does things the way that He does. Now, certainly, there are a few examples in the Bible of men questioning God. And no person can be expected to never question God ever in their entire lives. BUT, this is seen to be a negative thing. Such thoughts are often linked to the Devil, especially, but not only, in the more ignorant circles. Thoughts that could essentially, if thought about enough, could make you(not you specifically, but you in general) hate or stop believing in God. After you ask a few questions, you typically get this, ok, now don't question God anymore thing going. Eventually, whenever anything is thrown your way, you have set up this knowledge base in the Bible and how you've come to believe that God works. You will base everything that you believe around this idea that have come to believe to be true, through subjective experiences, and you rule out other, more rational ways of thinking, because the supernatural, cosmically intelligent answer works better with how you perceive the world and what you've subjectively experienced, and you've "accepted" that God is God, and nothing can change that, even if you don't understand everything. But we free thinkers have a problem with the idea that we are expected to serve a God who's actions and very existence are questionable because we don't even know enough bout ourselves or the Universe, yet.


          "And if it said 'There is a possibility there is no God' then God would be lying about His very existence..."

          You are asserting that the Bible was written by God. You have no proof that it was. You believe it was so BECAUSE it said so, and your subjective experiences line up with it, whether or not you grew up in a Christian home being irrelevant. There is nothing in the BIble really that resonates with me anymore, besides a few good ideas. That's an entirely different conversation.


          "How critical of God can you be?"
          Very. Especially the Western idea of God.


          "Now He is wrong for telling the truth?"
          I do not believe that "God" wrote the Bible, nor in the Bible being "truth." It is something that you believe makes sense, even if you are uncomfortable with some of the ideas in it (like it's slightly destructive version of self-reflection and some of the things that it says are wrong, that you believe you will have to eventually change in your life, and that the "Holy Spirit" is agreeing with (it's funny how these can be so different for so many people, and yet it's the same Spirit, but I know this is also a different conversation.))

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Think I'd need a new thread for all those seperate points.

            Maybe I'll start one? hmm

            lol

            smile

          2. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It's a little weird to see yourself get name-checked in a forum!

      4. Catherine Kane profile image86
        Catherine Kaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        To touch on a point aways back in this thread, I wouldn't say that Christianity loses its potency without the threat of Hell at all.

        I believe that there is a Hell, but  don't particularly dwell on it much. For me, the point is more that God loved the world so much that he sent His only son to save us, and that Jesus loved us so much that he willingly went through all of those hard experiences to set us free from that.

        I don't know about other people, but I tend to work harder for the carrot than the stick, and I work hardest of all to help and support the folks I love and care for.

        If you have friends that will go through fire and flood and bad hair days for you, don't you want to do good things for those friends too? And how much more if those friends were as good to you as God and Jesus have been...

        The potency of Christianity is not the threat of Hell in the slightest. It's that being around good folks makes you want to be a better person yourself, and God and Jesus are two of the best folks that I know....

        1. vector7 profile image59
          vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          My goodness the love just flows from you!

          Well said, and excellent perspective.

          smile

          1. Catherine Kane profile image86
            Catherine Kaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            well, thanks. I am as I was made to be smile

        2. A Thousand Words profile image80
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I love your tone. Very calm and smooth, no offense, or at least none that I sensed, which is good. Because I don't say what I say to offend. However, I think you misunderstood what I meant, which is probably my fault for not being clear.

          It is clear to me that people are capable of living Christian lives without Hell being their main reason. BUT, it is an unavoidable reason, which was more what I meant. Jesus' crucifixion would be close to meaningless if there was no Hell to be saved from. Otherwise, why would our sins need be forgiven, except to have a joyful and fulfilling life here on Earth, which can be and is found in other religious practices to different degrees? If Hell simply meant being cut off from God and a finite death instead of Eternal life, it still wouldn't have as much sting as Eternal burning, pain, suffering, gnashing of teeth, etc.

          Hell gives it all meaning. And I'm sorry to say, but much of the spread of Christendom was due to preaching Hellfire, and even before that, it was a "become a Christian or be killed" type scenario, whether that sounds like a pleasant truth or not. But I digress. Hell is a very effective way to get followers, even if there are people like you who are not SOLELY driven by the fear of Hell, it is still an important component of your belief system.

          Referring to something you said later down the road....
          "My experience has been that if people are discussing different beliefs, opinions or viewpoints, the person who needs to descend into name calling and denigration of their counterpoint is usually  lacking in belief or proof for their own arguments, and attacks as compensation..."

          You may indeed be right, to an extent. However, that also stems from passion, which can be seen coming from the religious and non-religious alike. Some people passionately believe in the idea of Hell. Some people passionately hate the idea of Hell, like myself. Some people passionately hate the people who believe in the idea of Hell that they also hate, along with other components of their belief systems, and with being fed up and too passionate, they do go the name calling route. It's rather childish, actually. But it happens.

          "Just because it isn't your path doesn't make it wrong;"

          Christianity says that any path other than Christianity's path is wrong. Jesus made that clear when He said that no man come to the "father" but by him.

          So, there are people who will also stand up against Christianity and certain viewpoints with anything that hurt society more than help it, thus it being "wrong."


          "and the need to batter other people into lockstep with your beliefs doesn't make those beliefs the only right ones...."
          True. But that is essentially the goal of Christianity, or at least mainstream Christianity.

          They say in the Bible if you go to a place where you share the message and they don't receive it, to dust off your feet and go on to the next place. A bit arrogant, but, if more Christians practiced this, there would be less disdain for them and their religion.

          1. Catherine Kane profile image86
            Catherine Kaneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I think you and I must agree to disagree on whats worse- physical pain of a flamboyant and theatrical nature or being cut off from the source of all that's loving in your world...

            For me, Hell has remarkable little to do with it. Hell has never meant a thing to me.It certainly hasn't had a thing to do with my motivation, and that's true of a great majority of the Christians that I know (and that's speaking as a minister's daughter, so I have a fair sampling to work from here)

            As for namecalling being a sign of passion, sometimes it is, but it still is a sign that that person has run out of reasons (or "proof" as our friend Jesus was a hippie would say) and is falling back on aggression out of fear and doubt. If you've got reasons, you don't need to attack the other person to express them, or to express your passion on a subject.

            For me, life's too short to waste hating someone just because they believe something different than me. Besides, if I'm going to follow Christ's example, hates's a lousy way to do it.

            I think part of the problem here is that there's more than one kind of Christian. And unfortunately, the ones with the bad behavior are the ones who get the attention and spoil it for the rest of us.

            Historically, some people who call themselves Christians have done bad things with Hell as their motivation. And a lot more Christians haven't

            Historically there are some folks calling themselves Christians who try to beat other people into lockstep with their beliefs. And there are a lot more who don't

            When we get down to it, being a Christian is supposed to be about following the example of Christ. And Christ didn't force people into lockstep, call names, verbally attack people or even talk much about Hell. He came to save us from the grave, not threaten us with Hell

            And there are a lot of Christians who follow that example. We're just not as flamboyant as the folks who call themselves Christians but preach a doctrine of hate and fear

            You can call yourself anything- but if you're a Brussel Sprout, calling yourself a Chocolate Sundae doesn't make you one

            Pax

            1. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              While I suppose in your circle, there are many who are not driven by fear of Hell, there are JUST as many who are. But I still think we're having a miscommunication. Which is fine. I'm not trying to make you believe what I believe or feel what I feel, think what I think, etc. I'm simply making a point. What you do with it, think about it, even if nothing, is all that matters (or doesn't matter, LoL) essentially.

              Most of the modern day Christians believe in Hell. The extent to which they think about it, act on it, does not change it's importance in the religion.

              There were some things I enjoyed as a Christian. I don't need those things anymore, but I did at a time. As a "babe" in Christ, Hell was certainly a motivator. But not the ONLY one, just an important one. I knew that I was a "sinner" and that I was not right with God, and that I should accept Him into my life, develop a "relationship" with Him, etc, etc, and it brought me great joy! Hell was on the back burner. BUT, what did it mean, lest I not have a relationship with Him? Why is it important for people to "develop" one with him? It is to have peace, a fulfilling joy, happiness, yadda yadda, BUT, at the end of the day, what is the wages of sin? Death. A second death, people call it. Aka, Hell. And there are people who already have peace happiness, joy, who feel absolutely no need for Christ. So, what would you tell them then? There is no whole in their heart. There is no want.  They love life and themselves. But, in Christianity, this is not enough, because, even with all the happiness and satisfaction, supposedly there's still a Hell awaiting them, simply because they do not wish to worship your God. That, miss, is my point.]

              "I think you and I must agree to disagree on whats worse- physical pain of a flamboyant and theatrical nature or being cut off from the source of all that's loving in your world..."

              I think that's opinion. I wouldn't mind a finite death, actually. Hell fire's a bit much.

              "As for namecalling being a sign of passion, sometimes it is, but it still is a sign that that person has run out of reasons (or "proof" as our friend Jesus was a hippie would say) and is falling back on aggression out of fear and doubt. If you've got reasons, you don't need to attack the other person to express them, or to express your passion on a subject."

              I'm not disagreeing with you.

              "And Christ didn't force people into lockstep, call names, verbally attack people or even talk much about Hell."
              He attacked the Pharisees with words. And He did speak of a fig tree being cast into the fire for not being useful. Harsh.

            2. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I would also beg to differ that the Christian God is an all-loving source.

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The Christian God is all loving. (BTW, He is not the "Christian" God, as if there were others.) But one thing He does not do is force us to accept it.

                I haven't forgotten your example of why you don't believe in God. The only answer I have for that is that He does exist, I just don't understand why He allows some things. I may never. His ways are not mine, and to try to reduce Him to some kind of super-powered human who therefor should think and act as humans do does a disservice to both God and humans.

                1. vector7 profile image59
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Very well put.

                  I just read my thoughts on paper. [well, screen rather]

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you!

      5. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "Christianity looses (sic) it's power, it's potency without the idea of Hell. Could that be the reason why the idea was so heavily introduced?"

        Your question assumes ipso facto that Christianity is a manufactured religion, introduced by men instead of by God. And if it is, then (as it says in the Bible) we're all wasting our time, and I and people like me are the worst-off of everybody, because we've been chasing this untrue thing and telling people about it. So the first thing we need to do is be sure whether hell really exists. If it does, then all philosophical arguments about whether Christianity still has meaning are the same drunk drivers arguing that if that other car hadn't crossed their path they wouldn't have hit them. In a philosophical sense  they are absolutely correct but it's an utterly useless and counter-productive argument. If there is no hell, then why are we all wasting our time here? There are so much better things to do.

  6. peeples profile image90
    peeplesposted 4 years ago

    Hell is what we create in our own lives by the choices that we choose. Drama is hell. Those living in jail are living in hell. Those who are always fighting with their spouses are living in hell. The only way to not have hell in your life is to live a life of common sense but even then sometimes we fail.

    1. mischeviousme profile image60
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The first nobel truth:
      Life is suffering

      The second nobel truth:
      The origin of suffering is  attachment

      The third nobel truth:
      The cessation of suffering is attainable

      The fourth nobel truth:
      There is a path to the cessation of suffering

      1. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I had a feeling you were buddhist or put into practice the Dharma. My boyfriend is, too.

    2. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And sometimes the hell that others create for themselves spill over into neighboring enviroments.

      1. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So very true.

  7. amithak50 profile image60
    amithak50posted 4 years ago

    Thee is nothing like hell or heaven ..you pay your deeds here only .hell and heaven is on earth ..you need not to go anywhere

  8. ibexground profile image60
    ibexgroundposted 4 years ago

    If there is a Hell then there is a Heaven. Also could be a separation from God. you are no longer in his grace, which brings up other questions... EG. a child separated from his parents.

  9. couturepopcafe profile image61
    couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago

    HELL EXPLAINED BY CHEMISTRY STUDENT
    The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry midterm.  The answer by one student was so 'profound' that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet.

    Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

    Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

    First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today.

    Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:

    1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

    2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell,then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

    So which is it?

    If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, 'It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,' and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct......leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting 'Oh my God.'
    THIS STUDENT RECEIVED AN A+

    1. vector7 profile image59
      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      By a seemingly very easily amused instructor no less..

      smile

      1. couturepopcafe profile image61
        couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You know, when they add those bonus questions, it's just a field day.

        1. vector7 profile image59
          vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          Yes, you sent my imagination whirring.

          Well done.

          smile

    2. Bob Zermop profile image90
      Bob Zermopposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hahahahahaha, this totally made my day big_smile

  10. vector7 profile image59
    vector7posted 4 years ago

    "Congratulations!  You have just relegated Thomas Jefferson, Mark Twain, and Thomas Edison to the level of ear-plugged idiots.  I'm guessing these guys just never put forth any effort in order to understand reality.  What idiots they were.  It should have been you, with your uber superior comprehension, who invented the light bulb, and wrote the declaration of independence."

    -getitrite


    Firstly, I don't recall my mention of any of the three individual's you listed personally.

    If you are referencing them in regards to belief in Christ, well lets look at your overly-confident assertion's errors.






    "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

    -Thomas Jefferson



    It seems to me that such a quote is hardly able to be disputed, unless of course you want to look desperate.

    A little less bias, and a little more homework might prevent your mistake later.


    "I am much less interested in what is called God's word than in God's deeds. All bibles are man-made."

    -Thomas Edison

    The Atlantic Monthly Vol. 128, No. 4 (October 1921), p. 520



    As for Edison, it seems he was one to trust his tools more than written history. I wouldn't necessarily label him an idiot, and did not mention names for that reason [ thanks for your recommendations though ] and it seems as though he certainly believes in God by way of his studies on nature.

    No less, this means he was indeed ear-plugged, yet not an idiot. Just for clarification.





    And lastly, Twain..

    A simple online search will provide all the information needed to validate that it seems he made he reputation based on those that indeed do not follow what Jesus taught, that is, speaking of the hypocrites called wolves in sheeps clothing.

    Nevertheless, it seems he did not believe in Christ much, yet he hypocritically went to church as a presbyterian himself.






    So in conclusion you have submitted three individual's with completely seperate circumstances as though they held the exact same conclusion.

    Jefferson, a self proclaimed Christian by Biblical doctrine.

    Edison, a science devout believer in God, and Bible denier.

    And Twain, who seemingly rejects the idea of religion and God altogether for humanity's foolish actions sakes.



    Bravo getitrite...

    Bravo.

    smile

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hell, as Heaven are a state of mind of the individual.

    2. nonslick50 profile image82
      nonslick50posted 4 years ago

      Hell is about a lack of alimony and prenuptial agreements. If both athiests and the God of the Bible exists, then divorce is inevitable.

    3. 61
      rajupb3244posted 4 years ago
    4. farru profile image60
      farruposted 4 years ago

      Yes, I believe Hell

    5. hvacunits profile image60
      hvacunitsposted 4 years ago

      Yes, his name is Billy and he is my boyfriend from hell LOL.

    6. Bob Zermop profile image90
      Bob Zermopposted 4 years ago

      I don't believe in Heaven, Hell or the afterlife generally, though sometimes I think it would be nice to smile
      But I'm happy without it and don't see a reason to change my mind.

      1. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        May not be a reason for you, but generally..

        death.. comes to mind? lol

        Kid/n, kid/n.

        Just teasin.

        smile

    7. spartucusjones profile image91
      spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago

      To answer that question you need to define what hell is. In the original language of the scriptures there is two words that are translated hell. There is the Hebrew word: she'ohl' and the Greek equivalent is hai'des. In different Bible translations theses words can be translated "grave" "hell" or "pit". It is of interest that in the scriptures the word that they translate as "grave" is the same word that is translated into "hell". In the scriptures both righteous and unrighteous individuals are described as going to she'ohl' or hai'des when they die.

      So instead of being a eternal place of torment, the scriptures seem to indicate that hell is the common grave of mankind. In that sense we all go to hell when we die. But at Ecclesiastes 9:5 (King James version) it clearly states that "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any reward". So when we die we are unaware or unconscious (which also refutes eternal hell fire, because you would know if you where being tormented).

      So burning in Hell is not a Biblical teaching. It is a man made religious dogma to exert power over people.

      1. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Not so sure.. Lot's of fire and eternal wrote in that Bible thing you know.

        Unquenchable flame.. etc..

        Worm does not die..

        Revelation even says verbatim tormented day and night forever....

        But if you say so.

        smile

        1. spartucusjones profile image91
          spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Revelation also talks about how death and hell (the Greek word hai'des)  delivered up the dead (if those in the hell are doomed to eternal torment would they be delivered up) and it talks about death and hell being thrown into the lake of fire (which would indicate that hell and lake of fire are two separate entities). Revelation is highly symbolic, so it is not necessary meant to be taken literally. But you need to study the whole context of the Bible, and you have to examine the internal harmony of all of the scriptures. Also because the Bible is translated into English it is also helpful to study the original Greek and Hebrew expressions that are used.

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, about that.

            Don't think anyone I've encountered who is able to read Hebrew and Greek has disagreed with me..

            I'm not going to go futher than that, until I'm capable myself.

            But I'm pretty certain the english gets the "general" idea across rather efficiently...

            I don't think entire doctrines are changed.. Sorry, I study logic and thought processes in humans and can't see it...

            Language is a tool the human brain uses in it's thoughts to shape its logic.

            I don't think the "general" idea is lost due to translation.

            If the translator[s] (multiples means better 'overall' understanding) understood both languages the consensus says that the basic message is the same and with 66 books still agreeing with each other in English I'd say the translation is well enough to say the "correct" idea is communicated accurately.

            I'm NOT saying the original language doesn't make it easier, but I can't understand anyone claiming that the English Bible can't get the job done in explaining the point to be understood in any of the text. [the basic idea that is]

            1. spartucusjones profile image91
              spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              First off even if you where to read the entire Bible in English without knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, logic would still dictate that eternal torment of Hellfire is not a Bible teaching. So you are right the logic is not lost in translation. But unfortunately you haven't provided me with any logic that supports the teaching of hellfire, especially in the context of the entire Bible. If anything much of your rhetoric is supporting my arguments.

              But the translation can be a factor. Take the Hebrew word she'ohl which is translated it has hell. That same word is translated as grave and pit. For example in the King James Version, the word She'ol is used 65 times. 31 times it is translated as hell, 31 times it is translated as Grave and three times it is translated pit. But here the thing, it is all the same word. It is interesting that many modern translations now don't translate She'ol as hell, they stick with grave, pit or death. Hai'des is the Greek equivalent and it carries the same meaning as the word She'ol.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Logic would dictate the entire thing is nonsense. If you are going to use logic to examine the bible why would you even get as far as hell?

                Let's start with the basics.

                Logic dictates there is no such thing as a god.

                1. spartucusjones profile image91
                  spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That is where I would disagree. I do have a issue with how religion misrepresents God,  but I do feel there is significant evidence that God exists. There are even intelligent scientists out there you support the possibility of "Intelligent design". They generally stop short of calling it God. But there has been notable examples of intelligent scientists who have held prestigious University tenure, that have been ostracized for even suggesting the possibility of Intelligent design. I'm sure more scientists would come out in support of intelligent design if they won't afraid of being ousted from the scientific community. 

                  If you thoroughly study all of the evidence I do feel that an intelligent individual could logically come to the conclusion that intelligent design is at least a possibility.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Nonsense. There is no evidence. None. No genuine scientist supports ID. lol

                    Funny how selective you guys are. lol

                    Now we can throw logic out completely. Even your majik book agrees with me.

                    There is no evidence to study. Please stop talking to me as though I am an idiot. Thank you.

                    Wisdom teeth.

                    1. spartucusjones profile image91
                      spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      But that things you are supporting my point. When someone raises even the remote possibility of ID, they are immediately are ridiculed and their qualifications as a legitimate scientists is now questioned.

                      There is an interesting documentary about this called "No Intelligent Allowed" which actually cites examples of prominent scientists that have lost prestigious teaching post because of suggesting the remote possibility of ID. Also the scientist who suggest possible ID provides evidence in support of their conclusion, where does that don't usually resort to name calling. The documentary is also interesting because Ben Stein interviews Richard Dawkins and actually gets him to admit  that ID is a possibility.

                      But I really don't see how I'm talking to you like an idiot. I respect your right not to believe in God, and I'm not questioning your intelligence in drawing that conclusion. My point is that you shouldn't question my intelligence and treat me like an idiot because I choose to believe in God.

                    2. vector7 profile image59
                      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Magnetism isn't magic..

                      It recognises north polarization and south.. And structure is built accordingly.

                      But this is just "random chance" right?

                      That north always lines up in a set of thousands of standard magnets in the same direction?

                      You know.. magically by random evolutionary chance?

                      Boy your logic is adding up nicely in explaining that isn't it...

                      I can't imagine anything designing something that operated by rules.

                      The rules don't even 'exist' right?

                      The magnetism is just an effect of super duper universe power that makes stuff 'look' designed.

                      seriously...

                      roll

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Mmm, not entirely accurate. It's true that "burning in hell" is not an Old Testament teaching, but Jesus did teach that hell is a really horrible place where people will suffer for eternity.

        As you said, you need to examine the whole context of the Bible.

        1. spartucusjones profile image91
          spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus did NOT teach that hell is a really horrible place where people would suffer for eternity. And a study of the entire context of the entire Bible makes that perfectly clear.

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Revelation and Christ use the words torment...

            And eternity.. [or ever, as in unending - says it twice actually back to back.]

            How do you erase the meaning of these words with context?

            Context shapes meaning, it doesn't reverse words. hmm

            1. spartucusjones profile image91
              spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'll repost my comments concerning Revelation because I already addressed that: Revelation also talks about how death and hell (the Greek word hai'des)  delivered up the dead (if those in the hell are doomed to eternal torment would they be delivered up) and it talks about death and hell being thrown into the lake of fire (which would indicate that hell and lake of fire are two separate entities). Revelation is highly symbolic, so it is not necessary meant to be taken literally.

              Also sometimes the problems lies with people using certain words interchangeably. I already made reference that Lake of Fire is different from hell (the Greek word Ha'ides). Also people sometimes confused Gehenna as the same of hell. Gehenna refers to the Valley of Hinnom. It was used as a garbage disposal heap (where they would dispose by burning). It was also used as a place to dispose (by burning) of criminals that where not fit of a proper burial. So it is a fitting symbol of eternal destruction (which is different than eternal torment).

          2. Elijah7 profile image60
            Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6447760_f248.jpg

            Hey spartucusjones,

            RE : "Jesus did NOT teach that hell is a really horrible place where people would suffer for eternity. And a study of the entire context of the entire Bible makes that perfectly clear."

            WRONG - Please read on and note well :

            1. Revelation 19:20

            And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

            2. Revelation 20:10

            And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

            3. Revelation 20:14

            And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

            4. Revelation 20:15

            And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

            5. Revelation 21:8

            But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


            In the Light of Point Five, and the FACT of The Second Death (not taught in schools), THE ONLY SOLUTION is to BE Written In The Lamb's Book of Eternal Life.

            If you are NOT Written in The Book, the Lake of Fire is YOUR Final Destination.

            You cannot say "Oh dear - i NEVER knew". The Gospel of The Lord JESUS Christ is NOT a 'well kept secret' - ON THE VERY CONTRARY...

            THIS IS PRECISELY WHY HE ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE CRUCIFIED !!!

            He Proved HIS Case - FULLY. Anything contrary to THIS is INDEED another one of a multitude of deceptions and lies from The Serpent - A LIAR FROM THE VERY BEGINNING....AND A MURDERER !!!

            Faith, Belief, Baptism, Church Attendance, Learning, Discipline, Sacrifice are ALL part of Salvation - JESUS Provided The Way, The Truth AND The Life, In HIS OWN BODY, Alive in Heaven NOW - Amen † † †

            Anyhow, it's your choice - CHOOSE WISELY - Amen

            http://www.Constellation7.org/TheSimple … fFaith.htm

            Love & Hope In The Lord JESUS - ALIVE FOREVERMORE - Alleluia

            Elijah

            † Matthew 3 : 16 - 17 †
            "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:
            and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God
            descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

            1. vector7 profile image59
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You are a blessing brother.

              A sight for sore eyes.

            2. spartucusjones profile image91
              spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              If you have read my previous comments I've already addressed these issues. But thanks for helping to strengthen my conviction that eternal torment in hell is not a scriptural teaching.

              1. Elijah7 profile image60
                Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hey spartucus - you MUST be blind or simply REFUSE to read The Gospel Truth.

                NOTHING in the above Message supports your false conviction.

                Sorry mate - WRONG. The OPPOSITE of what you just wrote IS THE REAL TRUTH...

                http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6449006_f248.jpg

                Read what you wrote AGAIN - and then READ THE MESSAGE ABOVE again.

                Wake up - Love you - Alleluia & Amen

                Here's a Great Pair of Spiritual Spectacles :-

                2 Corinthians 4:4
                In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

                2 Corinthians 3:14
                But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

                1. spartucusjones profile image91
                  spartucusjonesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I've read the entire Bible on repeated occasions, and the context of the entire Bible has lead to my conclusion. Most of your scriptures are from Revelation which is clearly symbolic and you use certain expressions for hell interchangeably (even though the scriptures make clear distinctions).

                2. Disappearinghead profile image89
                  Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I know I'm probably wasting my time but about this God of the World:

                  Compare 2 Cor 4:2-4 with John 12:37-41. In 2 Cor, the God of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving to the gospel lest its light fall upon them. In John, God has blinded the eyes and hardened the hearts of the unbelieving lest they might see and understand, as foretold by Isaiah. ???? Let's look again. Jesus says God has blinded the eyes of unbelievers. In 2 Cor, Paul says the God of this world has blinded the eyes of unbelievers. Bet you've never seen that before. The God of this world is God. Further, if you look up a Greek interlinear, the God in both places in 2 Cor 4 has a capital 'Delta', Theos, that is God, not some false god. Just another example where the bible was deliberately mistranslated to push a doctrine.

                  1. Elijah7 profile image60
                    Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Hey Spart & DH - Simple misunderstanding : Isaiah Prophesied about the HARD HEARTED JEWS, John quotes that - Absolutely correct.

                    Paul, (the Apostle to the GENTILES) is referring to the Gentiles, BECAUSE satan is BLINDING the eyes of the UNBELIEVERS.

                    The Jews (THEN) were BELIEVERS, expecting The Messiah.

                    When He Came (The Lord JESUS Christ) the majority REJECTED Him.

                    This is the difference. God Blinded His Chosen people IN ORDER that they SHOULD exercise Faith and Overcome. Many DID !! The First Christians were ALL Converted Jews.

                    The gentiles were Adopted, BECAUSE Salvation (In Christ) Appeared for ALL men.

                    This was some 1950 years ago (Paul's Work By The Holy Spirit).

                    TODAY, AD 2012, The Church of the Gentiles is GLOBAL - Massive - in every city and every country ON THE ENTIRE PLANET.

                    The Cross is the SINGLE, Most Famous Spiritual Symbol in ALL of History - Amen.

                    The Jewish church is STILL small, by comparison however - SIMPLY because the Hebrews are a minority tribe AND because of God's Master Plan - ALTHOUGH multitudes of Hebrew bloodline souls ARE also Born Again (AKA Messianic Jews) and growing fast this Last Day.

                    Hope this helps explain the Truth a little better.

                    BOTTOM LINE : YOUR souls ARE Precious to Christ.

                    Don't pass up the opportunity to REJECT satan's slippery lies and deceit.

                    Here's how for YOU guys :-

                    TAKE THE PLUNGE In JESUS' Holy Name - Amen

                    Just By Faith, PLEASE say the Following Prayer, Believing from your
                    heart of hearts, to Meet Christ NOW In His Holy Spirit - Amen

                    "i Believe that JESUS Christ IS The ONLY Begotten Son Of God.

                    i Believe that JESUS Christ was Crucified for MY Sins and the
                    Sins of ALL people who WILL Truly Believe In Him.

                    i Believe that JESUS Christ Resurrected on The Third Day.

                    i Believe that JESUS Christ Physically Ascended Back to Heaven
                    Forty Days AFTER He Rose, Alive From The Dead.

                    i NOW Ask For His Holy Spirit to Fill me and Forgive me for ALL my
                    Sins, past, present and future BECAUSE i Truly REPENT of them.

                    i Ask for His Holy Blood to be Applied to Cleanse ALL of my Sins.

                    From NOW on i will Remain a True Believer In JESUS Christ, my personal Lord and Saviour, and will Commune with His Holy Spirit regularly by Faith and Prayer and Through Study of His Most Holy Bible.

                    i agree to seek out a Full Gospel local church to be Baptized and Born
                    Again, and will Honour His Sunday Assemblies at every opportunity.

                    i renounce ALL the works of The Devil and Turn Away from
                    ALL my past sins and Commit my life to The Lord.

                    i will Trust JESUS In His Father God and be a Faithful Witness of His
                    Holy Truth to ALL who have YET to Believe as i do NOW.

                    i Ask Father, For The Baptism of The Holy Ghost and The Holy Gifts Of
                    Thy Perfect Spirit, to be a Wonderful Christian soul ALL the days of my life.

                    i have NO doubts Now and Know you have Forgiven me and Love me,
                    and will NOW Guide me and Lead me as my True Father In Heaven.

                    Lord JESUS, Hallowed Be Thy Name; Thy Kingdom Come - Amen and Amen"


                    The Prayer was taken from this link below which is a Revelation Web Portal to ALL Facts Related to God, JESUS, Holy Scripture and Multiple Testimonies & Evidence. - Amen

                    Please fell free to email anytime for more Encouragment and Truth - Amen

                    † Acts 2:38 †
                    Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you
                    in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
                    and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."


                    http://www.Constellation7.org/TheSimple … fFaith.htm

                    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6450861.jpg

                    1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      So God blinded the eyes so the unbelieving wouldn't see.
                      So Satan blinded the eyes so the unbelieving wouldn't see.

                      Yeah that's logical. Not.

                      However, you have ignored the fact that Paul said in 2 Corinthians that God is blinding the eyes of the unbelieving. We know this because he said 'Theos' twice in the verse both capitalised.

    8. Claire Evans profile image90
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago

      Hell most certainly exists.   I know it's spiritual torment at the very least.

      1. Disappearinghead profile image89
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        How do you know Claire?

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm not sure why you would want to know.   Aren't I deluded?

          There have been atheists would have had Near Death Experiences about hell.  They didn't feel the flames of hell.  They described it the most desolate place.  There was no hope.  The incredible fear of experiencing demons by far exceeds any physical pain.  There was an atheist who actually converted to Christianity on the spot when he survived his NDE. 

          One said demons told him that there was no God.  Being an atheist that should not have frightened him but it did.  My mother experienced fits when she was terribly sick.  There were these demons who said to her, "There is no Jesus here".  The same feeling of dread and fear came over her, too.

          Hell is the complete separation from God.  God is in the world and so hell is not this world.  When the Holy Spirit goes, hell will exist on earth.  Jesus descended into hell because God have forsaken Him because of sins that He bore. 

          I suffered from night terrors for years.  Most insist it's a medical condition.  However, there seems to be a link between night terrors and demonic activity.  I am intrigued to learn how many people have night terrors when there homes are haunted, for example. 

          To cut a long story short, back in 2006, it got to the stage where I could take them no more.  Death was better.  No amount of physical pain could rival having them every night at its worse for the rest of my life.  I didn't have it that bad, though.  Bad enough.   I thought my priest uncle could help.  Before he came, I was lying on my bed in terrible distress.  I was writhing around in absolute panic.  I've never had an experience like that to this day.  He blessed the room and it went away for a week.  After that they came back worse.  It parallels people who report hauntings that intensify after a blessing or the more fearful they get. 

          I eventually was prescribed something from my psychiatrist.  It was a sedative that made me sleep immediately.  It broke the cycle of fear and the night terrors eventually went away.

          So I've experienced real evil.  It pains me to see the world led astray because they don't want to confront evil.   Suffering comes at hands of the powerful, who aren't even human.  Because they aren't human, they feel nothing inflicting such evil on humankind. 

          I don't think anyone can fault my passion, insane or not.  My faith in Jesus has given me so much joy and comfort and strength.  At the same time, my hatred of evil makes me tirelessly attempt to blow it's cover.  That is what keeps me going even though I get mocked.

          I think people should just clear their slates and start going where the evidence leads them without any preconceived ideas.  After all, our ideas are programmed into our heads from very young.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So, you get medication that makes your problems go away, and then you ignore it. Insist your night terrors were real in spite of obvious evidence to the contrary.

            Have you talked to your psychiatrist about this paranoia? There's medicine for this too Claire. There is a reason this behavior is labeled abnormal.

            1. vector7 profile image59
              vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You know.. I wouldn't be so bothered by your accusations if I thought there was a reason for it.

              People have been saying there is more to life than meets the eye for a long, long time..

              And it means that if all you can believe is there is what your eyes can see, then you just haven't run into the right experience yet.

              Quit being shallow and calling her abnormal.

              Abnormal is Adolf Hitler. Abnormal is thinking you are the only thing in reality that exists, and that you are as high as greatness gets as a human being.

              Abnormal is consistently ridiculing Claire for her experiences when she is not the only person in the world who has had them. The list is quite astonishingly long, and they aren't all liars or crazy.

              You think there is nothing beyond physical? REALLY?

              I think THAT is abnormal.

              I still love you Emile, and you can be a good convo, but you should really consider taking up a less demeaning attitude to ideas you 'personally' can't touch or verify.

              She is a very intelligent, and very insightful person with a passion to do good.. And she isn't crazy just because she can't hand over your demands of proof on a silver platter in the sequence you request it.

              smile

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks, Vector! I think it's rather abnormal to feel the need to converse with a disturbed person.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Would it be an act of love to ignore delusions born of desperation?

                  1. vector7 profile image59
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol

                    I love you Emile..

                    She isn't desperate.

                    There are other people collecting all the info.

                    What she does is nothing short of reporting what people dislike hearing that is actually happening.

                    They really do go to a "lilith the owl" worship and they really do all the rest of what she posts.

                    There is proof of it.

                    Desperate is denying the revealed info. smile

                    Muah!

                    My little fairy buddy. wink

                    1. 0
                      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      I'm a sprite. Thank you very much.

                      And, I don't doubt people worship stuff. It doesn't make it real. I've played with Oujia boards. I wasn't looking for Satan. It's entertainment.

                      Haven't you ever thought it was odd, on the mountain with the burning bush? Moses asks God his name and he answers 'I AM'. What do you think that means Vector?

              2. Disappearinghead profile image89
                Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ok we're all wrong. There IS a worldwide conspiracy headed up by Satan. Satan is at the head of every global company, organisation, the United Nations, Disneyland, and he lives under your bed along with the communists.

                I'm am now thus convinced and will say nothing more on this thread.

              3. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Let's put this into perspective. I think Claire attempts to create evil. It doesn't exist, in the manner she purports; she is attempting to manifest her own brand. In order to raise herself up in the eyes of God. It is a sickness that pervades a large percentage of the population within the fundamental and Bible thumping community.

                I worry about you guys and I do, truly, hope you get better.

                1. vector7 profile image59
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No she's not.

                  At no point in history [until now maybe?] has good nor evil been denied as existent and real.

                  Thanks for caring about me. I hope everything goes good for you too. wink

                  It takes courage to do what she does, and she is a strong person.

                  I'm sure God loves her very much, just as He loves you as well.

                  smile

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm afraid she is. The only point in discussing the concepts of good and evil is to come to a better understanding. Devolving into childish and paranoid rants about Satan is pointless. I realize that  many so called Christians think being laughed at equates to being hated which means they are being Christ like; but that's just not so.

                    You guys cannot create evil, no matter how much you'd like to. You guys can't conjure up Satan, no matter how hard you try. Just because you want it, will never make it so.

                    1. vector7 profile image59
                      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      We believe the Bible. We, along with millions of other Christians who are loyal to Christ Jesus, see the exact same thing.

                      We are not paranoid, childish, nor ranting.

                      We are Biblical and devoted to God, and we do what He says do.

                      And I don't need to be told what being laughed at is or isn't.

                      I have a Bible, and I have Christ. And I have understanding.


                      And I did not, and cannot, create something that has been there througout ALL of history.

                      And if she is by your vote, then you can call me the same - and the millions who stand with us in service to Christ Jesus. [they sound just like me and Claire, and a good number of others here  - this site is not an accurate representation of the devoted children of God in the least - there is a group of people with one voice and they never disagree who serve God].

                      Killing is evil - I don't want it. I can't stop them, so how did I make them?

                      I don't need to try to create anything. No one could make it go away if they wanted.

                      The Bible is clear. That makes it so.

                      Not to you, but that's to be expected isn't it?

                      You aren't us...

                  2. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I, too, feel very touched that Emile cares and loves me so much.

                    Thanks, Vector, for your kind words.

                    1. 0
                      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Think nothing of it. It's who I am. smile

                    2. vector7 profile image59
                      vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      You're welcome.

                      Jesus done it.

                      He showed me some things about you. wink

                      And He said He's watching always. He emphasized always.

                      And Matthew 5:10-12. He said it's your verse....

                      Mine's John 7:7

                      He said your verse is your sheild. [ everyone's is different ]

                      I wouldn't slow down like I did long ago.. you have a gift.

                      You are a very powerful voice for Him...

              4. Elijah7 profile image60
                Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Amen Vector - VERY WELL written...

                Glory To God ALIVE - Alleluia...

                Psalm 82 : 3-4
                "Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand
                of the wicked."


                http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6449554_f248.jpg

    9. brodielarsh profile image59
      brodielarshposted 4 years ago

      I don't believe in anything that has zero evidence to back it up.

      1. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Me either!

        1. vector7 profile image59
          vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          smile

    10. mischeviousme profile image60
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago

      What is hell, but an undesirsable state of being?

      1. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        While it is true that there are situations so horrible that they could euphamistically be described as "hell" ("hell on earth," "hell in their mind." "hell of their own making," etc.,) the literal hell is such a horrible place that very few situations warrant the comparison. Athousandwords once described to me a situation which I would use the comparison for, it was undeniably horrible. People who are simply unpleasant are not necessarily the same as "hell." I think the comparison is overused.
        Jesus did talk about hell, more than Heaven. So we know  that there is a literal hell and it's a place of eternal torment, quite literally.

        1. mischeviousme profile image60
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Litterary and litteral can carry 2 different meanings...

          I simply can't believe in something, that warrants so little of my attention. Especially if that something is the rantings of a 2000 year dead Quasi-semite and the only evidence we have that person ever existed, is the writings of people that live 50-100 years after the fact.

          So, hell to me is nothing more than a concept, outdated and oversold

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "cough, cough" What?

            What in hell is a Quasi-semite?

            You do know that there is more evidence than the writings of people who lived 50-100 years "after the fact." In point of fact, anyone who is at all honest about it admits that the writers of the Gospels lived during Jesus' actual lifetime and saw Him face to face. The debate about whether they were writing fact or not is more heated, but honest critics, both pro and con, don't give that much lattitude on the lifetimes of the writers. And there's more evidence He existed.

            Yes, literary and literal do carry two different meanings. That literally is the reason I used the word "literal" instead of "literary." Even though many tend to give it a literary interpretation.

            And hey, karma warrants almost no attention from me, yet if you're right and I'm wrong, who's going to suffer? Not a good reason for rejecting something. My electric bill warrants little attention as well, but it's still important.

            Are those really the only reasons you don't believe in hell?

            And yeah, I don't ever use four-letter words, so it was very deliberate. C.S. Lewis is my template...

            1. mischeviousme profile image60
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not saying it isn't right for you, I am saying however, that it is a concept that you can apply only to yourself. I have no fear of hell, only a healthy respect for that which I am, another person at the the mercy of mortality. I don't fear hell, because I don't believe it applly's to those on a different path.

              If hell is a literal place, than it is only reasonable for me to assume, that hell is a place in the mind. We create our own demons and we are very much our own devils...

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I once had this discussion with a relative of mine who was unable to understand how I became a Christian. I would point out that the Bible says this, or Jesus said that. They would repeatedly come back at me by saying, "That's true for you." I will tell you the same thing I told them.

                No, it's not.

                If it's true for me, it's true for everybody, and if it's not true for everybody then it's true for nobody, even me. I'm not special. I don't think people need to believe what I believe because I believe it. Jesus made certain very specific, and very exclusive, claims. Either He exists, and we need to take Him seriously, or he was just some nutty carpenter who died two thousand years ago and I'm in worse shape than you and all my family combined. There is no "other path." Either Christianity is true or it is false. If it's true then it's true for everybody whether they "choose a different path" or not.
                And if it is true then it is not reasonable to assume that hell is a place in the mind. Yes, there is a great deal of truth to the idea that we are very much our own devils, Christianity does not abdicate personal responsibility, in fact it magnifies it. But if it is true (and it is,) then hell is a literal place where we will go when we die if we don't follow Jesus.

                1. vector7 profile image59
                  vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Double the vote on that note.

                2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow. You worship a sadistic arsehole.

                  Why?

                  1. vector7 profile image59
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    What is that thing anyway hippy?

                    It cracks me up! lol

                    smile

                  2. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "Wow. You worship a sadistic *expletive deleted."

                    You're far from the first person to make that remark. Even some Christians will say things like, "I prefer MY Jesus, He's nicer!" (As if there were more than one Jesus...)
                    In a slightly offhand way, you actually illustrated the very point you were commenting on. You seem (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong,) to have chosen (and for whatever reason, I'm not judging your motives, simply commenting on your actions in relation to mine,) to believe that Christianity is false. And that's your choice. But if it's not, then calling God names is kind of pointless.

                    I wrote this elsewhere in this forum. I think it probably explains "Why?" as well as anything else:
                    One last corollary, the concept of God is too big to wrap your head around. Most people have a concept of God as larger-than-life super human, not all that different from the Greek gods. And that makes arguments about what is "fair" and "unfair" easy because we can break it down to a level we can understand and hold God (or whatever we think of as "God") accountable to the standards of our particular culture. But can a Being who can literally create stars, can literally create life, can such a Being really be reduced to the level of "super human being?"

                  3. 0
                    CJ Sledgehammerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    J.W.A.H.:

                    I caution you my irreverent friend. Your good buddy Earnest and I had a spirited discussion about his irreverence toward God. Earnest was too foolish and would not listen. He was dead 30 days later. Do you think he's laughing now, funny man?!

                    Earnest died trying to be your hero. He died trying to appease the moral reprobates of this world. It's guys like you that encouraged him along the path toward his destruction. Shall I put you on notice as I did him?

                    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                      Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      You can put me on notice sweetie pie. I would love it if you would stop hiding behind a fake name and - even better - come do it in person. You get the double laughie.

                      lol lol

                    2. kirstenblog profile image79
                      kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      This is disgusting! Earnest did not die because of you, ego much? He died because he was ill, not something that happened because of some talk with you. I find this post beyond the pale, you make me sick!

                    3. 0
                      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Should we bring you up on murder charges? Welding your invisible friend poisons people?

                    4. A Thousand Words profile image80
                      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      I just reported you because that was completely inappropriate. Also, there are people who have been "irreverent" much longer than Earnest who are alive and kicking, so you can throw your disgusting theory out the window. That was completely disrespectful.

                3. mischeviousme profile image60
                  mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You should have said think, never inject a fact if it has never been proven as such.

                  To think, is to conceptualize. I cannot give you a solid word nor can I give you a think. I can impart thoughts, but then that is exactly what they are... thoughts. Nothing real, just mental images and concepts.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't state things as facts that I don't know to be true. I can't "show" you God the way most people want to see Him because He doesn't work that Way. I did not and I cannot "conceptualize" God. He's too big and too difficult to understand. I only pass along what has been proven (as fact) to me.

                    The logical next question would be,"Why do you state that as fact?" Even when that question is asked, it's almost never asked as a question, instead as an accusation. But more often than not the question is ignored and the accusation stated as fact, thereby negating any actual debate or inquiry.

                    Pity...

                    1. mischeviousme profile image60
                      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      The concept "he's too big to conceptualize". It is an argumentative comparison designed to gain a higher position. My God's this big and your god's this big, that kind baloney...

                4. A Thousand Words profile image80
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, I think what most of us non-Christians are indeed saying is that Jesus was just some Carpenter a long time ago with some radical ideas, some "good," some bad, and most that certainly put him in an unfavorable place with Jewish leadership that ultimately led to his demise (if he was indeed a real person). Whether Jesus was Divine or not, due to his teachings and actions, he was bound to be crucified by accusations from the Jewish leadership of that time.



                  If you think that somehow you're in a bad spot if Christianity isn't truth, there's something wrong with that picture.

                  I think what mischievous is trying to say (I could be wrong), is that this is truth for you, in that you believe it to be so, not that it actually is "truth" because you cannot place a label like "truth" on something solely based on opinion, even though a "billion" people seem to share that opinion (btw, I find it interesting how sometimes Christians talk about how so many people who profess themselves Christians aren't actually going to "heaven," but in arguments of this nature, they like to add them into their numbers. (It wasn't you but vect 7))

                  And that also, he is saying (my assumption I could be wrong) that Hell is only real in the mind, because you create it for yourself. It is not physically real, but a concept that very real in your mind as well as others who have come to believe the same "truth" as you.

                  It is all in the end, speculation, conjecture, hear say, extremely subjective. Sure, mystical experiences may happen, but they aren't necessarily proven by a supernatural force (1.it may not be supernatural at all, and 2. we don't know enough about the human race or our Universe, etc. to come to such definitive conclusions as we do concerning the supernatural, and to have such faith in an ancient book like that. Also there are people who have mystical experiences apart from Christianity, that cannot so conveniently be labeled "demonic" because they are different and in conflict with your viewpoint of spirituality.)

                  Science is like this in some cases as well don't get me wrong. But here is the difference between real science and religion. Scientific theories, and things sometimes labeled definitively as fact, but still are conjecture and/or possibly mistaken, can be proven or disproven, improved upon, completely dismantled, and/or proved to be true time and time again, and this is typically ok to those who live their life this way. Yes, people often jump on the bandwagon, which often happens in any scenario, and don't do research for themselves to know if certain concepts are true or not. But science is progressive. This is how truth really is found. It isn't about subjective experiences that feel as though they are true and real, and applying "truths" from an ancient book that seem to some how line up with how you've "experienced" supernaturally. It's not about saying "I don't know" and filling in the gaps with whatever sounds best or the most convincing to our ego, emotions, etc. It's about saying I don't know, but I want to find out, and doing thorough research, and if the evidence provided isn't reasonable enough, then saying, "I still don't know," and being perfectly fine with it until it is actually known as concrete fact.

                  It's all about finding what is physically provable, what truth lies before our very eyes, not subjectively, but things that are true and observant independent and still true, and come to the best conclusions possible based on reason and thorough, objective research, aside from "feelings," supernatural "experiences," and the like.

                  1. vector7 profile image59
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    One of the articles linked on my profile covers Jesus and His claims very well.

                    It shows every option, and then explains it very clearly.

                    No tail chasing. The guy did a great job. He is very collected with his thoughts.

                  2. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That was one of the most succinct descriptions of Jesus from a nonbeliever's point of view that I've ever seen. It's actually rather impressive.

                    "If you think that somehow you're in a bad spot if Christianity isn't truth, there's something wrong with that picture."
                    If Christianity is untrue then I've been wasting a lot of time alienating people for no reason. And if religion is not true, then Hoky Smokes, Bullwinkle! I've wasted my life!

                    "I think what mischievous is trying to say (I could be wrong), is that this is truth for you, in that you believe it to be so,"
                    It's exactly what he was saying. It's exactly what my relative was saying. It's exactly what I used to say before I became a Christian. It doesn't change my response. Conceding for the sake of argument (and only for the sake of argument!) that God's existence is an open question, if He does exist and what He has said about Himself (in the Bible) is true, then it is true for eveybody because He said so. If He doesn't exist, or even if He's not the God of the Bible, then what I believe is true for nobody and it doesn't matter who, how many, or how hard they believe it, they're wrong! And in this way I agree completely with the hardcore atheists, time would be so much better spent finding out what is actually true and configuring your life accordingly.

                    Which brings us to the next point, Is it provable? As I've said often, if what you want is the "burning bush," you won't get it. And the overwhelming majority of people who say they want one wouldn't for two seconds believe it was from God if a thousand angels dancing on the head of a pin were to proclaim it.
                    However, I've given my reasons, the multiple experiences that I've had, as to why I believe. It's easy for skeptics to say they're "purely subjective" and dismiss them out of hand (I'm not saying you're doing that now, just that it's easy for people to do.)

                    I  understand the Scientific Method and agree with your assessment of it. But the fact is that there is a belief in science in some quarters that takes on religious fervor and rivals the Middle Ages Catholic Church for dogmatic statements.

                    In certain circumstances, it IS all about finding what is physically provable. I don't think the Universe is literally alive, but there are a great many things we can find out about it, and many things that sometimes complement and sometimes contradict previous discoveries. Dark Matter, String Theory, quarks, black holes, I love all of it!

                    BUT...

                    Sometimes it's not about what you can touch with your hands (even figuratively speaking...)

                  3. Elijah7 profile image60
                    Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    For 1000-words :

                    Re : Your Quote : "Whether Jesus was Divine or not, due to his teachings and actions, he was bound to be crucified by accusations from the Jewish leadership of that time."

                    The Resurrection was Witnessed by a large group of people - Eye Witnesses, that Wrote the Facts, and their Separate Accounts FULLY Concur.

                    Have you ACTUALLY Considered His Bodily Resurrection from The Dead? (And His PHYSICAL Ascension 40 days later????)

                    Peter The Apostle DID, and Peter Recorded this Fact - TOTALLY ON TOPIC for this forum, (regarding the time between when JESUS was In Paradise and when He Took Back His Mutilated, Wrecked, DEAD Body and Arose Alive FOREVERMORE - Amen)

                    PLEASE STUDY THIS VERY CAREFULLY - Thanks :-

                    1 Peter 3 : 18 - 20

                    "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."


                    Do you UNDERSTAND this?

                    The PRISON ?????

                    The time factor, being 2,377.5 years from the date of The Flood to the Date of The Crucifixion Of The Lord.

                    ALL the pre-flood REBELS, that REFUSED to believe God in The Days of Noah, DIED and "went to The Prison".

                    To Assist you : On The Sabbath Passover Day (equivalent to our "Easter" Saturday) The Holy Spirit Of JESUS CHRIST Himself (prior to His Resurrection) WENT DOWN INTO THE VAST HONEYCOMB OF CAVES [BUBBLE SPHERES], in the depths of this earth (no way out and no way in - EXCEPT BY THE SPIRIT) And Caused some of the "prisoners" to Repent By Preaching The Full Gospel, IN THE SPIRIT, to ALL THE SOULS FROM THE FLOOD DESTRUCTION !!!!

                    Once you understand this, you will have a clearer grasp of Hell....

                    History WILL REPEAT itself, even IS Repeating itself - NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!

                    † Matthew 24 : 37 †

                    "But as the days of Noah were,
                    so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

                    Amen
                       

                    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6449477_f248.jpg

                    1. 0
                      jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Trash

              2. vector7 profile image59
                vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, and if devils are liars as they are said by Christ to be..

                They may have just made themselves disappear to some people by doing so, so well...

                At least I don't think they want you to think they effect you. That would blow their cover, and then whatta ya know.. no more power.

                Hmm. Seems to fit.

    11. Sue Adams profile image92
      Sue Adamsposted 4 years ago

      It will be hell for all Hubbers if the proposed new lay-out changes are going to be implemented for every hub on the site. Go to this thread and find out more.

      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/95755?p … ost2045412

    12. Aley Martin profile image83
      Aley Martinposted 4 years ago

      of course, we are all living in it here on Earth.

    13. johnakc profile image60
      johnakcposted 4 years ago

      Lots of people traveling in an overcrowded bus, train is a real example of hell.

      Women in poor countries carrying water from kilometers away from their house is another example.

    14. mrshadyside1 profile image77
      mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago

      I agree since satan as stated by the Bible is an angel and since all angels are nothing but drone slaves(which is the reason God created man,for communion with a being in his image which is a being with the ability of free will).Satan has only the power that was given him to play out his role as prosecuting attorney and embodiment of evil.Satan has no power over man so why follow a powerless pawn?The only man that Satan was allowed to touch was Job.Otherwise he is just the symbol man uses to describe the animalistic  dark side that dwells within,a convenient way to keep man from accepting his own imperfections.Which is not a true interpretation of the text but another case of man bending the text to fit.Although Satan does exist,otherwise in theory man is not the perfect creation which would imply that God makes mistakes and I personally don't think that is very likely.For one to have a choice there must be more than just one choice,otherwise you have only mindless drones which were here already. I don't know the reason for the supposed falling from Heaven came or the absurd thought of a great battle,for these things would imply God's imperfection and lack of foresight and as I stated the God I believe in is omnipotent.So there are some contradictions within the text but that is understandable seeing how these incomprehensible issues had to be interpreted by cave men.Things had to be explained in a manner that could possibly be comprehended.Although I could be wrong about the whole thing and seldom discuss what contemplation I have done because I feel rather arrogant trying to explain things that no human can comprehend or explain.I guess I'm just in a chatty mind set this morning.

    15. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      must not have been a very good lawyer. Personally, I think most lawyers are dogs reincarnated.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Then you have a higher regard for lawyers than I do.

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I was trying to be kind. Must've ticked off Fido. He bit me.

    16. yogeshgiriseo profile image60
      yogeshgiriseoposted 4 years ago

      I believe in hell but very dangerous place i heard about that

    17. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      Heaven and Hell is the state of the world, determined by how we as individuals perceive it.

    18. 0
      erickcbposted 4 years ago

      I once was a Christian. I remember feeling so guilty and ashamed of being human. The entire religion made me feel unworthy to even breath. It was suffocating almost like your existence is a mistake. I then realized, wow this book is made to make you feel the guilt. it is made to make you feel like shit! I then looked out at how much my life had been wasted living in misery. Since that moment I left Christianity and never looked back. I feel intrigued by how much people truly feel like it is their divine right to judge others by citing scripture, as if they wrote it! No. This is all wrong. There are lessons in every holy book for those who are willingly to be open to it. Lots of things having to do with judging others too. Cast out whatever is in your eye before you judge someone else. Something like that. Its been awhile :] The general message is clear though. Look at who you have become before you go out laying down the LAW with your divinity. Yet another scripture comes to mind about those who do that very thing. Something along the lines of, you search the scriptures daily thinking in them you have life! Well i think that says it all.

      Just my two cents worth. I am open to all comments and criticism. Just remember all truth is merely one man's experiences and opinions over yours.
      ..And so the war rages on..

      1. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        And so shall it continue, friend.

      2. mrshadyside1 profile image77
        mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        erickcb;Although I don't live as I was raised and have strayed far from that life,the things that I were taught are totally the opposite of the things you were taught.No where in the Bible I have read is condemnation or disgust of humanity,actually to the contrary the human being is held upon a pedestal over everything else within existence.I'm afraid that you have experienced the twisted interpretations of men that for whatever reason bend the Bible to suit personal agendas.Alas these folks that look down upon non-believers are everywhere professing to be Godly,but actually anyone who tries to subdue your allegiance with guilt or fear are not very educated in the Bible.Every human is as valuable as the next according to the text I have been taught and it is the duty of the believer to "win" souls by example and/or appreciation,not by intimidation.I have seen so many people on these very pages that have good intentions but poor guidance and education on the whole issue.The ability to spout verses from memory has little to do with the overall message of the Bible.The God of the Bible and Christianity are one in the same but nowhere in the Bible will you ever see God telling people to kill,alienate,belittle,patronize,or subdue anyone. There are some isolated references in the old books pertaining to war,which could possibly have been misinterpreted or added by the warmongers,and corrupt Catholic elements and forces aligned with the Vatican During the medieval and or dark ages to suit the agendas of power hungry wicked men.The sad fact is that the Bible is too confusing for most to interpret well,so they in good faith place their trust all to easily in men.That's where the tragic and un thinkable manifest within our world.Imagine for an instance that God does not exist,the whole thing is false,regardless of his existence if a man takes the Bible and reads it for himself and builds his life using it as a guide he will be prosperous,loved by kin and neighbor,spend the majority of his life without inner conflict or guilt,will suffer no depression,always be thankful and feel blessed,and would be the defended by those in his community and no matter what he may say would never be doubted.The simplest and easiest description of the Bible is that it is the ultimate guide for life ,down to living healthy and feeling fit.There is no other health and mental wellness and sociological guide that can compare. I apologize for the soap box session I am just a simple man that doesn't even take his own advice so the merit of my words are not very great.I was just saddened to see so many folks with animosity to an institution that has been badly represented by others."Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"and "judge not lest ye be judged thyself " are passages from the Bible but apparently are widely ignored.Thanks for the time and again I apologize for any offended individuals if any.

    19. Disturbia profile image60
      Disturbiaposted 4 years ago

      I don't believe in hell.  Hell as we know it was invented by the church to control the masses.

      1. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Short, sweet, and simple, and so so true, my friend.

        1. Elijah7 profile image60
          Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          AND A TOTAL SATANIC LIE FROM HELL - LIKE ALL THE OTHER DRIVEL YOU LOST ATHEIST SOULS HAVE BEEN SPOUTING.

          YOU ARE CORPORATELY DECEIVED; PSYCHOLOGICALLY DISTURBED; DELUDED BEYOND REASON.

          YOUR ANTICHRIST RAVINGS ARE THE SPAWN OF THE DEVIL HIMSELF.

          YOU ALL DESERVE HELL. YOU ARE BEGGING FOR IT.

          YOU HAVE HAD PURE HOLY TRUTH NON-STOP FROM ELIJAH THROUGHOUT.

          YOU HAVE TRAMPLED ON PEARLS LIKE THE SWINE YOU REALLY ARE.

          HELL WAS MADE FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU ALL !!!

          GOD HATERS. CHURCH HATERS. BIBLE HATERS. SCORNERS. DERIDERS. FALSE CRITICS THAT KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

          SPIRIT-LESS. UNHOLY.

          TOTALLY LOST SOULS.

          DEVOID OF GOD'S LOVE AND TRUTH.

          BLIND BATS OF DARKNESS.

          WICKED IN WORDS AND DESTINED FOR THE LAKE OF FIRE.

          TWICE EVIL.

          IF YOU REALLY KNEW WHO THIS IS WRITING TO YOU, YOU WOULD BE ON YOUR KNEES IN HEARTFELT REPENTANCE, CRYING OUT TO THE LORD FOR MERCY.

          YOU HAVE ALL HAD YOUR CHANCE.

          THE FULL GOSPEL HAS BEEN PREACHED TO YOU ALL AND YOU HAVE REJECTED SALVATION AND HOLY TRUTH.

          MY CONSCIENCE IS NOW CLEAN AND CLEAR IN THIS MATTER.

          YOUR POLLUTED BLOOD BE NOW UPON YOUR OWN HEADS.

          WALLOW IN YOUR SELF RIGHTEOUS FICTION AND YOUR SATANIC, MAN MADE PIG SWILL.

          You  have just had an Encounter with THE ONLY Elijah The Prophet, BACK, ALIVE AND WELL, Born Again - Alleluia.

          i AM THE LIVING TESTIMONY AND PROOF OF THE TRUTH.

          EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THE TOTALITY OF ALL MY PREVIOUS POSTS,
          IS ABSOLUTE, UNADULTERATED, HOLY AND PURE GOSPEL TRUTH - THE ONLY TRUE REALITY IN THE UNIVERSE, AS WRITTEN FOR ALL TIME IN THE MOST HOLY KING JESUS BIBLE.

          THE DOCTRINE OF OMNIPOTENT PERFECTION.

          It has been a REAL pleasure meeting ALL of you, ESPECIALLY THE TRUE BELIEVERS.

          GOOD BYE, AND MAY THE LIVING LORD GOD HIMSELF, WITH HIS HOLY ANGELS VISIT YOU ATHEIST LOSERS AT 4.00 AM - REGULARLY, AND GIVE YOU NO PEACE UNTIL YOU CRY OUT FOR The Lord JESUS To Forgive you of ALL your FOUL AND WICKED SINS.

          ONLY AND ALWAYS FOR HIS HOLY AND COMPLETE GLORY FOREVERMORE....

          Anathema Maranatha....

          AMEN & AMEN & AMEN .......

          † Malachi 4 : 5 - 6 †
          "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
          before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
          And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children,
          and the heart of the children to their fathers,
          lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."


          http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6454816_f248.jpg

          http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6454822.jpg

          http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6454826_f248.jpg

          http://www.Constellation7.org

          1. 0
            jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?
            WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?

            1. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Woof woof woof.

              Or maybe we should be squealing since we are swine. *oink* *oink* *oink*

              This guy's a joke. I don't usually like saying that about people. But... well, I guess I've been there, so. No judgement.

              1. 0
                jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I feel he is a crackpot, who thinks shouting is a good substitute for reason.
                Well, variety is entertaining!

          2. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            hmm Again with the All Caps.

          3. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Elijah, get a grip, man. You remind me of the prophet that was over me when I was a part of a different youth group. You guys are nothing but selfish speakers of hate who arrogantly believe yourselves to speak for a God that's only real in your own mind.

            Oh, and I'm not an Atheist.

            If anything, I might be a Pantheist. But, that's another story.

          4. 0
            jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Mark 11:23 : "Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him."
            If you can put your money where your mouth is, then I want to see Mount McKinley(at least Trout Peak) in the Pacific Ocean(I prefer Arctic ocean, but your convenience), in 3 days time. Are you up to the challenge?

          5. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You obviously aren't for real. Nice job attempting to sound like a crazy Christian though. I'm sure you've got a few people fooled, but you are a little too far over the top to have credibility in the crazy department.

          6. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            OK so 4:00 AM is when you will exact your revenge, huh?

            Please, please, please!  I didn't mean all that stuff I said.  Please, Jesus forgive me for not being psychotic, primitive, childish and ignorant...as this is what you require.

            As you see, Lord, your faithful follower has just put a spell on us.  Could you reverse that spell, and send it back so that the original sender will be afflicted instead. 

            In Jesus' name

            Amen

          7. Disappearinghead profile image89
            Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hey Elijah, are you a sock puppet of A Troubled Man? You are way too funny to be serious.

          8. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            God bless you brother.

            Jesus said it best.

            Luke 23:34

            34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
            And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

          9. mrshadyside1 profile image77
            mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The only people God ever had so much wrath against were the Jews after they had disobeyed his explicit instructions about 200 times. That's why you will only find that meaningless crap in the old testament. Actually in truth most of sections of the Bible that are filled with such fire and brimstone were most likely placed there by certain prophets attempting to sway others politically within their own tribe or group.It contradicts everything else that was written.

    20. tammybarnette profile image60
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago

      Hell is real. Hell is eternal separation from God.

      1. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly.

      2. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But there is a difference between Eternal torment, and eternal destruction. If Christianity was actually true, and I'm certainly not convinced it is, but, for humor, if it was and I when I die I am simply annihilated in a place of Eternal destruction, I have no objections. How happy indeed would I be if "I am my own God" to be in Heaven. Eternal separation, while still a bit dramatic, is more understandable. But Eternal Torment is vengeful and ugly.

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The Bible does not teach eternal destruction. It teaches eternal torment. So no, annihalation is not the preferable alternative, it's not presented as an alternative at all.

      3. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        After reading the bloodthirsty stories in the bible, it would appear that being INVOLVED with God would be hell.  How could anyone spend eternity with an evil monster like that?

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          which stories in particular?

          1. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The passover is one story that comes to mind.  Or am I misinterpreting something.  Yeah, I must be misinterpreting something.  I must be.  It has to be my misinterpretation.

                                I also love these verses here:

            If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

            They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

            "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple."  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded.  "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!"  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

            Of course, I'm sure I have misinterpreted ALL of this. sad

            1. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The little children can be extra threatening, don't you know.

            2. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              "Bloodthirsty" here would be in the eyes of 21st Century men. Yeah, I've wrestled with that too. I just wondered if you would only pull out OT verses. And you did. I already had this conversation with Rad Man but I'll give bullet points here:

              1) Rules given to ancient Israelites 5000 years ago are exactly that. They weren't given to Babylonians, Egyptians, or Assyrians. They also weren't given to Christians by Jesus.

              2) Jews living 5000 years ago had to deal with the Bablylonians, the Egyptians and the Assyrians. Those were the nice ones. Other groups were even nastier. Some of them made the "bloodthirsty" God of the Hewbrews seem more like a tea drinking, New Age hippy. Again, where did Jesus ever tell us to go cut off someone's head?

              3) Had you lived 5000 years ago, whether or not you would have been Hebrew, I doubt very seriously you would be complaining about how "bloodthirsty" the Hebrew God is (except possibly to make fun of how weak their God is.)

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                This is a common diversion, used by believers, when confronted with the facts of the bible.  I'm referring to Jesus' father GOD...who is the same person as Jesus and the Holy Spirit.



                That's irrelavant.  This seems to be more diversion.  So is the God of the OT, who is Jesus' father, bloodthirsty or not?

                1. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I already answered your question. You quoted me directly! Repeating a question until you get the answer you want phrased the way you want is also a diversion.

                  You don't have to agree with me, I know you won't. That's the beauty of being human. But don't say I didn't answer your question just because you didn't get the exact phrase you were looking for.

                  1. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks, but it would be so much better to get honest answers.  I can accept any answer that can be validated through fact finding.  Those answers that defy common sense must be rejected, lest a person should fall prey to just about anyone.



                    Though I DON'T agree with you, that's not the reason your answer was rejected.  The reason that your answer was rejected is that the evidence does not support you. Not at all!

                    1. Chris Neal profile image83
                      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      I did give you honest answers. I honestly believe that what I wrote is the truth.

                      IF what you are looking for is some formula answer that fits neatly into what you want, then I'm sorry. If you can accept that I gave you an honest answer, even if it's one you don't like or agree with (and no one says you have to,) then good. Because I did not use any diversions.

    21. 0
      Jhudahposted 4 years ago

      I'm a christian so yes i believe in hell, It is for the devil.
      but, but... I still have hope of everyone to be forgiven in the so called judgement day. for Christ said 'forgive them father for they don't know what they are doing'
      notice that in this life sometimes things are so confusing that sometimes we don't know what is really right.

      God is my only Hope.

      1. mischeviousme profile image60
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hopes are wishes, most of which will never be granted.

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Boy and I thought I was cynical...

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Amen, brother!

        1. Disappearinghead profile image89
          Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes when Jesus asked God to forgive them, then God did forgive them. So if God forgave them it is not possible for God to change his mind and torment them for an eternity for sin for which he has forgiven them. And if forgiveness is granted to those who killed the son of God, then your sin must also have been forgiven otherwise the sacrifice is insufficient and imperfect. So if God has forgiven you, then he cannot torment you for an eternity for the sin for which he has forgiven you.

          Did God attach strings at the cross? No.

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yet in many of Jesus' parables, he talked about those who were invited to the party, but when they decided they didn't need to come, they were thrown out into the darkness never to be let in. He talked about being ready for the Kingdom of God because if you're not, you won't get in. He talked about following the King (and his Son) because if you don't, you'll be thrown out in the darkness, or sent to the torment.

            Did God attach strings at the cross? No. He loves all and forgives all. But that is not an argument for universalism. If you don't accept it in this life, He doesn't accept you in the next one.

            1. Disappearinghead profile image89
              Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Missing out on a wedding supper (which does not last for eternity) and not being a king or priest in the kingdom, is not the same as an eternal torment, being set on fire, whilst God watches on.

            2. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              But I think the message that he and the "Evangelicals," not that I'm sure that denomination matters, is that torment, when you study what the translations are directly from Hebrew and Greek, does not SPEAK of torment. Fire does not= Eternal Torment. It could all very well mean Eternal Destruction and finite death, "National judgement,"  and the like,  and there is more proof of this actually, than Eternal Torment. From all that I read during my time as a Christian, and from what I've seen recently, there was never anything specifically referring to Eternal Torment. That's an idea that's been taught for some time, but is it really Christian theology, or pseudo-biblical teachings?

              Is there anywhere, when looking at the entire Bible as context, where Eternal Torment is CLEARLY stated? Being cast into the fire simply means... being cast into the fire unless you read way too much into the statement... He didn't say, it will be cast into the fire for all Eternity. Simply cast into the fire, and things tend to disappear somewhat quickly in that regard, and it may just be a temporary experience.

              "The wicked man will see and be vexed, he will gnash his teeth and waste away: the longing of the wicked will come to nothing." Waste away? Doesn't sound like Eternal Torment should even be applied when using the statement, if Jesus was using it in the same context (I don't see why not as He often quoted OT scripture)?

              I think you are still only seeing what many of us were so long taught to see, and I know well that difficulty to accept anything that doesn't line up with many of your foundational Christian teachings, especially if it sounds like men with "itching ears."

              But, I suggest that you take a stroll, not even through your Bible if all you have is English texts, but direct translations from the greek and hebrew, and see how much, from an "objective" viewpoint, ACTUALLY CLEARLY states that there is Eternal Torment.

              Just a suggestion.

              That is something that should have been mentioned CLEARLY a number of times, again, like I said before, if God knew, which I'm assuming your God is "all-knowing," that such matters would be confusing and disputed today. I find it interesting that concerning things written in the Bible people say "oh well they knew what it was referring to and didn't think this or that would be in question, blah blah," but one would think that God's inspired word would have some foresight.

              None of it really affects me, too much. There may be a small smidgeon of me deep, deep, deep, down somewhere that could possibly go back to such a religion (or "relationship" as people like to call it). It's highly unlikely, however. 

              But, I'm curious as to whether you can accept the possibility that you may indeed be wrong or not. I was always close-minded to such beliefs, so I wouldn't be surprised if it still doesn't change anything for you.

              And it's all good, man.

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I do own a Textus Receptus, which has its own set of controversies but is the one most readily available. And your point is worth considering, but I would take it even farther because you also need to consider the cultural context. That was one of the points I was trying to make to Rad Man. Will definitely do it when I get a chance.

              2. mischeviousme profile image60
                mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                People have a tendancy to be empirical in their belief, it is seen as fact and is defended in such a way. It took me years of restructuring my psyche, in order to unlearn all the garbage I picked up in church. The hardest part to let go of, was the biggotry and prejudice of believing myself to be right.

                1. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The "bigotry and prejudice" of believing yourself to be right is certainly a snare that many beleivers fall into.

                  I just wish that more of the people who don't believe didn't smack just as much of self-righteousness.

                  Examining not only your beliefs but what you do with them are very important. I'm not necessarily talking about you but my experience is that many people who beleive differently than I do are just as guilty of "shoving it down my throat" (if not more so) than people who believe the same way I do. And plenty of people who believe like I do (sadly, this has included myself) are guilty.

                  1. mischeviousme profile image60
                    mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's what makes us human...

    22. baytianna profile image60
      baytiannaposted 4 years ago

      I believe that if hell exists it would work like any other afterlife in that you must be dedicated to the faith to go there. In that light, hell only exists for Christians (Muslims? I'm unsure) who have failed to meet the requirements of their god. Those not following yahweh-elohim or any of his counterparts would not go there.

      1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
        Jesus was a hippyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Awesome, party round mine then?

        1. baytianna profile image60
          baytiannaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          He was kind of a Jewish rebel to the extreme, hippy Jesus came when we switched him from the plausibly historical middle Eastern Jesus to the Caucasian interpretation of Jesus.

          1. baytianna profile image60
            baytiannaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry, I read your name as a response and totally confused everything. And sure thing, my religion counts partying as a type of worship, actually.

            1. mischeviousme profile image60
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Is that your real face on your avatar.

    23. baytianna profile image60
      baytiannaposted 4 years ago

      If you are asking me, then yes. Otherwise, sorry for assuming.

      1. mischeviousme profile image60
        mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You're pretty... no offense.

        1. baytianna profile image60
          baytiannaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Lol, none taken, thanks actually.

    24. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
      SomewayOuttaHereposted 4 years ago

      do you believe in hell?....yes....it's all around us, now.....and so is heaven...we're there now...it's up to each of us to decide whether we want live in heaven or hell as we move through life...sometimes we move through both...hopefully we find our way outta hell...

      my 2 cents....if anyone cares....from the book of SOH

    25. joebhoy profile image53
      joebhoyposted 4 years ago

      Yes, I believe that HELL exists!

    26. indieswebs profile image79
      indieswebsposted 4 years ago

      I don't believe until someone proves its existence. smile

    27. coffeegginmyrice profile image86
      coffeegginmyriceposted 4 years ago

      Let me ask you this, "Do you believe that there is heaven?" If you say you do, then there is always the counterpart of it. If you say you don't, then, what the hell?!

    28. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago

      @ A thousand words

      Your post helped me to express better something I've been trying to say.  Thank you
      ==============================================
      Is there anywhere, when looking at the entire Bible as context, where Eternal Torment is CLEARLY stated?
      = - = - = - =
      ME    …   The same question can be asked concerning many such interpretations which are being taught in Church. Which by the way, drastically changes our perception of what is ACTUALLY written in scripture.
      =========================================
        Being cast into the fire simply means... being cast into the fire unless you read way too much into the statement... He didn't say, it will be cast into the fire for all Eternity. Simply cast into the fire, and things tend to disappear somewhat quickly in that regard, and it may just be a temporary experience.
      = - = - = -
        ME  …   Regardless of what the vision of the fire really represents, It says that the fire burns for ever and maybe it says that people will forever be thrown into it.
        It seems, that I am for ever throwing fallen limbs and such into my burn pit in the back yard.     Each limb doesn't burn for ever, though the flames might.
      ===================================
      I think you are still only seeing what many of us were so long taught to see,
      = - = - = - =
      Me
        Spot on!   Not only us but also those that taught us and whoever taught them, and whoever taught them, going back over 1600 years. We were not, but it sometimes seems almost like we have been hypnotized to not see what is actually written in MANY instances. Our preconceived ideas about what we are getting ready to read affects the way in which we understand or not, a simply written message. 
      ========================================

      one would think that God's inspired word would have some foresight.
      = - = - =
         Me  …   And if God DID have some forethought, he would have included some kind of warning into scriptures, And if he did include a warning it would be called a prophesy.
        Oh!  ,,, I think he did warn us about that exact thing.  That is why prophesy is much more important than the church teaches that it is.
      Prophesy teaches that someone was going to come along and start a false religion that distorts the truth   "just enough"   to lead the majority of believers astray, even to deceive even the very elect if that is possible.
      “COULD  IT”  be possible that this has already happened ??  It seems as though you think so?
        Which might mean that maybe the bible is/could be 100% true, and it is somebody’s' interpretations, 1600 years ago, that sounded so good that everyone started teaching that instead of what is actually written?
          Could that be true?    I think so !
      =======================================
      There may be a small smidgeon of me deep, deep, deep, down somewhere that could possibly go back to such a religion (or "relationship" as people like to call it). It's highly unlikely, however.                       But, I'm curious as to whether you can accept the possibility that you may indeed be wrong or not. I was always close-minded to such beliefs, so I wouldn't be surprised if it still doesn't change anything for you. And it's all good, man.
      = - =  --  ==
          ME
        I felt exactly as you just described a dozen or so years ago.            Then I spent a decade doing what you suggested .  Going back and reading for myself.  It took a decade for me to discover how misconceptions I was holding onto.   
      And I may still be wrong!!  but I feel better about believing what I do.

    29. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago

      I only have a few minutes here this AM. Just looking in before I gotta go, just wanted to say this before I go...
       
        It seems to me that this subject is the most unpopular subject I have seen here in forums.

        Atheist say that religion is False yet won't consider this to be fulfillment of prophesy.
        Theist say  scriptures are a mystery which God does not want us to understand.  If that is so, why did he even give us prophesy when he didn't want us to understand them?  He didn't!
       
         And theist WON"T consider it because it goes against their OWN personal interpretation which was given to them hundreds of years ago. And to question those interpretations which were given to us long ago is Blasphemy, NOT against God but blasphemy against the establishment of the church.
        It seems to be OK with the church for us to hold most any other doctrine except for the one being described in the previous post.

        I think that Jesus even preached that Self Examination is very important and that we should question any and all doctrine.
        I didn’t finish explaining this but I have an appointment.

      1. baytianna profile image60
        baytiannaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        In cases of the actual details of worship, it is important to note that Christian groups separated for a reason. Many groups believe that the bible serves different purposes and believe it in different ways. To class them all the same and judge them based on that classification is both inaccurate and somewhat counterproductive in light of the thousands of years they spent battling each other over meanings.

        1. Jerami profile image77
          Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I wasn't speaking of how anyone worships.
            And yes there was many reasons that the Church separated way back in the 14th century which had to do with corruption; the first of which that comes to mind is the selling of indulgences. One could pay the church a large sum of money and receive a free pass into heaven regardless of the sins which they commit in their future.
              Yes there was reasons why the church began falling away from the parent religion.
               How ever, these breakaway religions maintained many of the basic theologies of the RCC; as well as their INTERPRETATIONS of scripture which had been firmly planted for the prior 1000 years. These interpretations continued to cause division within the churches, and still do.   
          = - =

          You said ...  "To class them all the same and judge them based on that classification is both inaccurate and somewhat counterproductive in light of the thousands of years they spent battling each other over meanings".

          - = -

            I did not intend to judge anyone, just attempting to describe an observation on my part.  If I were to be judging anyone at all, it would be humanity as a whole and Myself included.
            We argue about SOoooo many petty things that the basic issues go unnoticed.
            We have kick up so much sand that we can no longer see the mosquitoes and vultures circling over head or the serpents lying at our feet.
           
            And Life goes on ...

     
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