Particularly fundamentalist Christians believe that you are offending God, or even blaspheming, by questioning the authenticity of certain parts. If you believe so, can you explain why?
As a "Born Again Christian" I personally view the Holy Bible as God's Holy Word, inspired by God Himself, spoken to man through God's Holy Spirit. Whether the text be Hebrew or Greek, it is from God.
God is infallible, inerrant, therefore God's words in the Bible, must be viewed in the same light as we view God Himself.
Then why are there so many contradictions and why is much of the Old Testament based on pagan sources? Did God reveal to the Sumerians, too?
So if the Holy Bible is God's Holy Word, then God is a bigot, sexist (assuming that god is male), and murderer.
@evans summerians influenced judaism which influenced christianity which in turn influenced islam....in end it is humans invention...and humans keep getting influenced...nothing wrong in it as long as humans consider it as human product...
The words of God are infallible, however I have seen some dicey translations with screw ball interpretations.
Having said that, I contest that if you locked someone up with any bible and a dictionary, and nothing else (except sustenance) they could find faith and relationship with God trough Christ.
There are a couple of contradictions I'd like to point out. If these is bad interpretation then what is the truth?
Man was created equal, male and female. Gen.1:27.
Woman was created as a companion to the man only after he rejected the animals. Gen.2:18-24.
Man was created after the plants. Gen.1:12, 26.
Man was created before the plants. Gen.2:5-9.
There were many languages before the tower at Babel. Gen.10:5, 20, 31.
There was only one language before the tower at Babel. Gen.11:1.
God sows discord. Gen.11:7-9.
God hates those who cause discord. Prov.6:16-19.
Jehu's massacre was acceptable to God. 2 Ki.10:30.
Jehu's massacre was not acceptable to God. Hos.1:4.
These are significant contradictions. In this case, it cannot be considered infallible. There's strong evidence to suggest that the contradictions of God is because not only God is being referred to but many gods.
Multiple gods are referred to in the story of the Tower of Babel.
5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Here the gods are mentioned again in verse 26 them wanting to create God in their image then it is God who actually creates them.
Why is this so? Because these stories are from pagan stories.
Sumerian creation story:
*Many of the named-gods have similar attributes or roles; this is because they are describing different aspects of the same god.
An represented heaven to the Sumerians; An/Anu was the main god of the pantheon and was referred to as "the God of the sky", "the father of the gods", and "the lord of constellations"; He was also the "god of kings/king of gods" and the god of the yearly calendar. The pantheon of gods (An, Enlil, and Enki) were typically depicted in a headdress or royal tiera along with two pairs of bull horns, which was symbolic of strength, and also with long beards. Sumerian deities were usually associated with the various regions of the earth and sky.
According to the Sumerians, the universe's creation (anki) begins with the the primeval sea (abzu) which existed in the beginning before anything else; the heaven (an) and the earth (ki) were formed within this; (anki = heaven and earth). The boundary between the heaven and earth was considered to be a solid-like vault that contained a gas-like atmosphere (lil); the brightest portions formed the sun, moon, stars, and planets.
An and Ki - The union of Heaven and Earth and the creation of the gods
In the first days all needed things were created. Heaven and earth were separated. An took Heaven and Enlil took the earth.
An is the main god of heaven and sky. Ki is the original earth goddess and mother of the gods who assists in the creation of man. The union between An(heaven) and Ki(earth) produced the air-god Enlil (Lord of 'lil' - the god of breath and wind). An and Ki/Ninhursag were the creators of most of the other gods. Enlil assumed most of sky-god An's power and became his heir and the leader of the pantheon; he is also glorified as "'the father of the gods", "the king of heaven and earth", and also "the king of all the lands".
Later Ki, Enlil, and Enki produce the plant and animal kingdoms and Enlil assisted in giving the various gods/goddesses and kings their earthly regions of influence and their laws. Enlil also rules over the dawn of the day and the agriculture of the land. He is also banished to the netherworld (kur) for his rape of Ninlil, his soon-to-be bride. The result of the union produces Sin, the Moon God (also known as Nanna).
The mother goddess of earth Ki is also later personified as Ninhursag (the queen of the mountains) Ninmah (the exalted lady) and Nintu(the lady who gave birth),amoung other names. Other traditions depict Enlil as the the brother of Ninhursag, and others her husband.
She also plays anther role, in that of the advisor of Enki as he shaped several versions of man from clay., over the Abzu. In Dilmun, she bore "eight trees" or offspring from Enki, which he ate, resulting in Ki cursing him with "eight wounds". After being pursuaded by Enlil to undo the curse she bore Enki eight new children who then undid the wounds of the first.
Enki is the lord of the abzu (the watery abyss) and of wisdom itself. He may have once been known as En-kur, the lord of the underworld which may be the same as the Abzu. He is also known as the Lord of Kur, and the god of water, creation, fertility, and semen. He is the keeper of the "me" (the divine laws). The divine laws were established by Enlil in Ekur and given to Enki to guard and to impart on the people. Later, Inanna (Sumerian goddess of love, fertility and war - also known as Ishtar) comes to Enki, unsatisfied because she was given less powers; in other version Inanna gets Enki drunk and he grants her more power, particularly power over the arts and crafts. Inanna brings these powers back to the center of Erech.
Babylonian Creation Myth and the Anunaki
The Annunaki are referenced in the Babylonian creation myth, Enuma Elish. In Babylonian cosmology/mythology Nibiru is associated with Marduk. Tiamat is described in the Enuma Elish as a goddess. The Anunnaki were the children of Anu (the sky-god of the heavens).
The name Anunnaki is also known as Anunnaku and Ananaki. This group of Sumerian and Akkadian deities is related to/overlapping with the Annuna, whom are the 'Fifty Great Gods', and also the Igigi, the minor gods. a-nu-na or a-nuna-ke can be translated to mean 'those of royal blood', 'princely offspring' or "heaven and earth" (Anu-na-ki). Ki in Sumerian mythology was the goddess/personification of the earth and of the underworld; she was also chief companian of Anu the sky god; she is the mother goddess and union between her and An create the subsequent gods of the earth. In some texts the Ki and An were represented as brother and sister, being the offspring of Anshar and Kishar whom were earlier personifications of heaven and earth.
In the Babylonian mythology creation myth Marduk was regarded as the son of Ea (in Sumerian this is 'Enki') and Damkina, and the heir of Anu. Marduk took over the role of Enlil and rose to the highest position of power.Marduk was also known as the patron deity of the city of Babylon; during this time Babylon officially became the political center of the Euphrates valley in the time of Hammurabi. Marduk started to began to slowly rise in power to the position of the head of the Babylonian pantheon. After the creation of mankind Marduk divides the Anunnaki and assigns them each to their proper stations, (three hundred in heaven and three hundred on the earth.) In gratitude, the Annunaki (referred to as the "Great Gods") built Esagila, a temple dedicated to Marduk , the protector god of Babylon. The temple lays south of the ziggurat Etemenanki, the memory of which has actually been prevailed in the Judeo-Christian culture as the 'Tower of Babel".
The flood story:
Enlil is annoyed at the noise (or evil) of humankind and convinces the other gods to send a flood to destroy humankind, and one named Zi-ud-sura, referred to as the "king and priest", learns of the plan. Zi-ud-sura is instructed by "Enki" (or Ea in Babylonian mythology), the god of the waters, to build a large boat so he and the selected animals of the earth can survive the flood. A terrible storm rocks the boat for seven days and seven nights, then Utu (the Sun god) appears and Zi-ud-sura creates an opening in the boat.
When the flood completely ceases, the animals emerge, and also Zi-ud-sura and his family, who then fall into submission, offers praise, adoration and sacrifices to An (the sky-god) and Enlil (chief of the gods), for sparing their lives. The gods give Zi-ud-sura eternal life and take him to dwell in the land of Dilmun for his act of preserving the animals and the seed of mankind.
http://www.dimension1111.com/nibiru-the … eationmyth
The Tower of Babel:
"In those days, the lands of Subur (and) Hamazi, Harmony-tongued (?) Sumer, the great land of the decrees of princeship, Uri, the land having all that is appropriate(?), The land Martu, resting in security, The whole universe, the people in unison (?) To Enlil in one tongue [spoke]. ... (Then) Enki, the lord of abundance, (whose) commands are trustworthy, The lord of wisdom, who understands the land, The leader of the gods, Endowed with wisdom, the lord of Eridu Changed the speech in their mouths, [brought (?)] contention into it, Into the speech of man that (until then) had been one.
(translation from "The Babel of Tongues: A Sumerian Version" by Kramer, S.N., Journal of the American Oriental Society 88:108-11,1968)
Since there are Tower of Babel stories in Central America and Polynesia, for example, we have to wonder how they got the story.
The New Testament contains contradictions which also proves the Bible is just not infallible.
Claire, nobody here will be surprised that Sumerians and Babylonians have similar creation, Tower of Babel and Flood stories to those in the bible. If these events actually happened then multiple civilisations will have folk memories of them. You are preaching to the converted in this regard.
Now those stories will differ in detail so either one or none of them have the true version. If the Sumerian and Babylonian versions were known of first, that does not necessarily mean they are the true versions and the biblical one a copy. I can conceive a situation where the Hebrews went to God and asked him for the true version after exposure to the Sumerian, and God saying something like "OK, the Sumerians got the details wrong, here's what actually happened".
The truth is you and I weren't there When the bible and these other stores were written down. All you can do is present these other accounts as a matter of academic interest, but you simply cannot put an absolute belief in Nubaru, alien reptilian god type beings, ancient spaceships and a character called lucifer. People love conspiracy theories and the satisfaction gained from believing they are uncovering some hidden truths, but we must not pin our credibility on all these being true.
As for you bible contradictions at the top, I shall look them up.
@disappearing hebrews went to god?...hmmm...interesting...god was so approachable in those days...seems he got busy with 400 religions and then became resigned and left people to discuss bible,torah,quran,veda,gurubani etc
Not sure you are making yourself clear as to what you are getting at.
point is simple...there are 400 religions in the world...it shows something....we just need to understand it from how humans work and minus any divine concept while understanding it....man invented religion...man created concept of intervening god....it worked and would still work ...its nice concept ..
Here are a few things to consider. The Sumerian tablets are 6000 years old and Genesis says Noah's flood happened about 4300 years ago. That's a huge time difference. Who warned the Sumerians of the impending floods? We also need to consider how much the Jews were influenced by Babylon and that culture was influenced by Sumeria. In fact, the Babylonian Talmud is revered over the Jewish ones. If the flood was recorded 6000 years ago then the flood could not have happened during Noah's time. How would God have explained that the Sumerian versions was erroneous?
The particular forum is about the academic aspect. It has nothing to do if it really happened or not. It poses the question if the Bible was influenced by paganism since the early Hebrews were into serpent worship, etc. Are these stories rehashed pagan stories an attempt to create a new religion? Mohammed did something similar. He took an existing pagan god, Allah, and created his own religion announcing Allah as the true god.
Where in Genesis does it say Noah's flood happened about 4300 years ago?
I keep looking but I can't find it.
The number 4300 doesn't feature in the Bible. It is rough estimate calculated the years of each generation.
creation of Adam to year zero.
At the age of 130 Adam begat Seth. Adam died in year 930
Seth born in 130, in 235 he begat Enos. Seth died in 1042
Enos born in 235. In 325 he begat Cainan. Enos died in 1140
Cainan born in 325. In 395 he begat Mahalaleel. Cainan died in 1235
Mahalaleel born in 395. In 460 he begat Jared. Mahalaleel died in 1290
Jared born in 460. In 622 he begat Enoch. Jared died in 1422
Enoch born in 622. In 687 he begat Methuselah. Enoch translated in 987
Methuselah born in 687. In 874 he begat Lamech. Methuselah died in 1656
Lamech born in 874. In 1056 he begat Noah. Lamech died in 1651
Noah born in 1056 (Jewish year) also 2704 BCE. In 1558 he begat Shem, (Ham and Japheth). Noah died in 2006
(Genesis 5:32 was not as specific as to the exact year as Genesis 11:10, so we followed Genesis 11:10 to compute Arphaxad’s birth.)
Flood was send to happen around 2604 BC.
It depends on how you think the bible was given to the writers. If you believe that every letter, word, phrase, sentence was individually dictated to them as many Jews believe the pentateuch was to Moses, then in the original Hebrew we could say it was the infallible word of God. If you believe that God told the writers what to write about but let them write it down in accordance with what they believed God wanted them to say, then there is room for the writer to influence what is written, then no it is not infallible.
The world is full of people who write books, sermons, hymns, and songs who say they wrote what the Holy Spirit was telling them to say. Yet would anyone claim their writings were infallible? Or would we say they might have got it wrong, or it was coloured by their own views and opinions? What evidence do we have that the bible is any different? It is purely a statement of faith that it s the infallible word of God.
Either way, I agree with Aguasilver, there are some very dodgy translations, including the king James.
Now I shall await my accusations of heretic.
I tend to believe that the Scripture is God-breathed and true but subject to interpretation, historical context, and occasionally even metaphor.
That having been said, I retain the possibility that the fundamentalist interpretation might be correct. For instance, I'm an old world Creationist who acknowledges the possibility of evolution and that Genesis 1 may largely be a folk tale to elaborate on its single literal point: that God created the universe. But I also acknowledge that for all I know the world could have been created in seven twenty-four hour days and the literal biblical timeline is true because hey, God is omnipotent. He could have made the world 10,000 years ago and created all the false scientific evidence He wanted that it was actually billions of years old. I don't know why He would have, though.
The reason for strict adherence to infallibility, however, is that if one part of the Bible is fallacious, no matter how tiny, the entire thing comes under suspicion, right down to the very core of the faith.
What everyone should believe (IT is, of course, their own choice!) is this: If everything that Jesus did or said could be written down, it would fill all of the libraries of the world....because, in truth, IT DOES!!!
@ts u r not serious while asking this question...are u?...bible is mere believed to be word of god like quran is believed by muslim to be word of god...there are many such books...in todays time , none should take these books too literally...essence is still very much applicable but son of god , god etc must not be taken to heart...
But, If there is a God and he is the "Author of all things good or evil, and if he is inspiration itself and God is the source of all flesh, then, everything that has ever been written, everything you have ever heard, everything that has ever been done, has been done by the will and the hand of God himself. That is, if he is REALLY OMNIPOTENT and OMNIPRESENT. HELLOOOO!!!
calm down...there are lot of "IFs" in your comments...first we have to assume there is god...then we have to assume that god used the most imperfect manner of communicating and that is written book....that too not written by one whom he sent but some one who was not part of his original team too...
still let us assume god choosed this path of communicating...so he has a son...he sends that son, then makes him die brutally , then makes him alive again....and then calls its sacrifice?....it is stunt...jesus is part of trinity..he knows he wont die...so he goes and gets himself hanged...he claims to suffer , while he knows that he cannot suffer pain because he and father are one....then he dies and then he become alive again....
now lets assume jesus did infact suffer...so jesus suffers and takes all sins with him...now this same jesus wants everyone to accept him or else follows the threat....then same jesus claims god is love...but forgets to add that it is condition applies...i love u as long as u accept me , if u dont i would make sure u go to hell and suffer till eternity...wow...
now if we assume that jesus didnt mean that and god would judge on basis of deeds not whether one accepts jesus as saviour...so god would judge according to free will...but can we trust that god who did send flood to punish human race while that human race would have had kids ranging from 1 month to 6 yrs who knew nothing about sin?....and god who punished all animal species because of sin on one species called humans and punished for what?....free will?...considering god knows everything , didnt he know that humans would do what they did and knowing well still god hopes against hope that human wont sin ?...well one needs real blind faith to believe all the stuff...
I think the Bible has been translated into so many different languages and versions that something was lost. It just about had to be and was. The modern King James Bible is much different than earlier Bibles. For a long time their was a reference at the first of Jude to the Book of Enoch but in modern King James Bibles that was removed. In some older versions there was also a detailed version of Mary's rise into heaven but that was removed when the 1611 King James Bible was made. The politics of man and the Church of England have changed a lot of the Bible from the way the 1535 Gutenberg was.
The thought is infallible to the thinker, even to the extent of his death. From the thought comes the text, but the text cannot be thought, it is merely an imitation, representation of the thought, which remains with the thinker.
The reader looks at the text so as to analyse the thought, but the text is not the thought so it cannot convey the delicate and intricate details of the wholesomeness of the thought.
So where is fallibility /infallibility ?
It is the the thought of the reader who believes that the text can be fallible infallible.
For the man is the author of the text....
But the man who allows the text to make him is fallibilty itself, and all thought will forsake him including the thought that created the text.
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