Need some help from another one of you qualified to speak for god please. The self professed representative of Christ aguasilver recently pointed out that - even if the Muslims are correct and he is going to burn in hell for not believing in Allah as they claim - this doesn't matter, because "atheists are still stuffed with god,"
I wonder if one of you other representatives of Christ on earth would care to translate this new theological term for me. In English English, "stuffed," means "screwed," or "in trouble," or close to that so I assume this means something similar in theological terms?
Discounting the apparent glee with with Christ's rep#3 (after the pope and the head of British Churchianity) announced this - I wonder what this means in real terms?
Am I Really "stuffed,"and what does this mean in real terms? I am thinking of my recently departed pal Ernest who was adamant that Christianity is nonsense and 100% rejected the Holy Spirit (as I do) and - I know Christ's rep #7 (vector7) was crying because Ernest was being burned (I think) by his Loving Father for not believing.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/88788?p … ost1974187
Thank you so much holy and righteous Mark.
You have shed your wisdom upon us all and shamed me beyond bearable humiliation for my awful and hateful deeds.
Now O master of human enlightenment, continue your noble cause of judgement and execution of demeanery.
The hanging will be tomorrow at noon.
Jesus loves you.
Oh and uh..
your lies are showing..
Saying I said things I did not say.. tsk tsk
Odd - I clearly said "(I think)" you were crying because your Loving Father was burning Ernest.
Why were you crying in that case?
"It is a sad thing to a Christian, for a man that denies Christ to go."
What is the punishment for not believing? Christ's rep#3 says it means you are stuffed, but I don't know what that means exactly.
Care to elaborate?
Because I miss him..
My name is Daniel Mark..
Daniel - it means "God is my judge"
Same goes for anyone else. I don't know where that man is.
I just know what I believe in. I prayed for Earnest because it's all I know to do in my belief, not to offend anyone. I was torn, because I really did like him. A lot.
And I genuinely care about people and was hurting and distressed.
All I know is I want everyone happy, and that includes Earnest.
But thanks for the publicity. [I don't hold it against you]
I know you mean well by him.
Ah great - so that means there is no downside to not accepting christ?
Why "It is a sad thing to a Christian, for a man that denies Christ to go." If it makes no difference?
That is wonderful news, because I certainly got the impression the fact that he rejected christianity and the Holy Spirit as anything other than a total delusion made a difference.
Why all the preaching in that case?
Chasing your tail?
I did not deny that Christ Jesus is the only way to God. [nor will I ever]
I did not say that denying Jesus did not send people to Hell.
The Bible states that very clearly for itself. But I don't determine who goes here nor there.
If you don't believe in God then you're 100% secure.
Just like I am not concerned with oblivion, because your belief of oblivion is not real to me.
I checked with my husband on this. We are both English. He says that 'stuffed with' means 'full up with'. I thought that, too.
The more unpleasant phrase you refer to would be similar, but not quite the same.
It's probably just that, whether we like it or not, we are all full of the spirit of God
I think not. In this context - why would atheists be full of the spirit of god?
To answer the origional question ... stuffed means cain't get much fuller.
Fon't want another bite or I'll explode.
And I din't care what Webster says that is what it means when I hear it.
PS ... I like Earnest too. And NO .... I don't think he is hot in the least.
You think that is what Christ rep#3 meant? Bearing in mind he is English and "stuffed" in English means "screwed."
Well Don't want to try to read someone elses mind!
But back home in the Ozarks; ... Stuffed means cain't eat another bite without letting our belt out another notch!!!!
edit .... I hope that is what he meant????
Here in these forums; are we really trying to teach anyone anything ?? OR ... are we trying to ,make ourselves feel better about ourselves?
Actually it was just a jocular line thrown in, but I accept that you take it literally, and you are correct 'stuffed' in English slang does mean 'screwed' in effect.
What was meant?
I was meaning that in both Christianity and Islam; atheists have no place in eternity with God.
Anybody who actually reads my hubs (and that is a whole lot of people, thankfully) knows that I have no firm opinion on the aspect of whether hell is what the fundamentalists believe it is.
I am not a 'universal salvation' believer either, but have made it quite clear that I believe the following things, none of which I could prove in scripture fully, but which are to be seen within the bible:
God MUST provide a place where folk who have demonstrated by their life do NOT wish or qualify to be with Him for eternity can reside for eternity after death.
As that location would be Godless and full of people who reject God or behaved in a manner that precludes them from salvation, it may well SEEM like hell to those who occupy it for eternity, by their choice or actions.
We are a spiritual entity with a temporal body, which is discarded at death, when we return to being an eternal spiritual entity.
Life is a period of testing to allow us to demonstrate whether we are spiritual entities that desire and are able to spend eternity with Him; or spiritual entities who do NOT wish or qualify to be with Him for eternity, and must therefore be held in a place where He is not present.
At death, I suspect that there is a period of non-locality, when all men are before Christ, and time is suspended. During this period, their lives are presented before them, and they have the opportunity to recant of their sins, or reject Christ's Grace and Mercy.
They then depart for the appropriate location they have chosen, or are judged to deserve to exist for eternity.
A staunch atheist MAY be stubborn enough to mistake this as a 'dream' or 'hallucination' and discount it, the enemy (who will have a vested interest) may well have deceived them so totally that they reject this opportunity to stop their rebellion.
I believe from the evidence of goodness that I saw in Earnests' posts, and from some less confrontational discussions I held with him, that DESPITE his ardent atheism, when confronted with Christ, he MAY have recanted his rebellion and been saved, I sincerely hope so, but I would hope that NONE should be lost.
But I cannot judge that, only Christ can, and by now has.
Out of this whole statement, what sounded the loudest and strongest is
"We are a spiritual entity with a temporal body, which is discarded at death, when we return to being an eternal spiritual entity."
Does this mean that when we die we return to whense we came?
I believe that to be true, though it is hardly orthodoxy and many would call it heresy, however there are scriptures that support this and need to be picked apart to deny it.
Jeremiah 1:5 being but one...
"At death, I suspect that there is a period of non-locality, when all men are before Christ, and time is suspended. During this period, their lives are presented before them, and they have the opportunity to recant of their sins, or reject Christ's Grace and Mercy."
Seen this thought pass through my mind. But never so clearly as you portrayed it here.
Woah Vector, did I read that right? If you are contemplating the possibility that the fundamentalist, black or white, turn or burn sucker, view of a God that shows no mercy when someone breathes their last, might actually be false, then colour me happy and praise the Lord.
Well I've ALWAYS said God is loving and merciful.. lol I'm just so loyal sometimes I shoot my foot, so to speak. [people's view of me]
I think we just can't understand how many options He has, and I think if anyone goes to Hell they "asked" for it..
I think I don't know that scenario as fact, but God is merciful and I know His love is more than we can understand.
Well it is common for a magistrate or crown court judge to reduce a sentence if the offender admits their guilt. It would seem plausible that God might do the same at the Great White Throne.
Agreed, with the exception that their lives have displayed their guilt or innocence before they get to plea for a 'reduced sentence'.
Yes God may choose to be lenient, because He knows our 'hearts' and can see whether we are genuinely repentant or just sorry for being caught in the act.
But I would hate to base my assumptions on that leniency.
It is sad that you choose your religion based on a fear of going to hell.
Oh I never chose Christ to avoid going to hell, my first priority at the time was ridding myself of the spiritual forces I had attracted by doing occult stuff.
Christ has given me a whole better life, and as my walk has deepened, others have been blessed also with a happier life, both by my doing what believers are shown to do, and by my NOT doing what I used to do to folk when I was a non believer.
The whole heaven and hell aspect is something that needs discussion, so that people understand the stakes involved, but nobody should think to come to faith JUST to escape hell (however one sees it) the reason is to gain life NOW, and to be able to help other gain life now.
The forums tend to be about hell mainly because the atheists choose that as an attack ground, knowing that it is fertile ground for their victims to cower over. I have written extensively about this, so I will not repeat what has been said again, but I do not subscribe to the orthodox position on hell anyway.
Weird - you just finished telling us that there is a chance to change your mind afterwards when faced with Jesus after death. Now it seems you are too scared to believe that. No leniency/leniency. You are not sure? 100% like you were earlier?
What a wishy-washy belief system. Push, push, push - then it turns out to be a maybe.
Looking forward to meeting you in person now. We can share a beer and you can tell me more.
It seems to me that those Christians who believe that God is both completely just and completely MERCIFUL would take that very opinion. Either way it is NEVER for the Christian to do the judging.
I never thought that I would find myself parroting Mark on a topic such as this, but it really is no wonder why religion causes so many conflicts.
Gotta connect the judging to the conflict.
Who has commited this heiness crime and deemed an individual a person deserving of punishment?!
Discerning scripture and spreading the Word is not 'passing' judgement.
Finger pointing on the other hand..
This is one of the main reasons i dont believe in the Christoan god.
You get a max of 120years, and usually quite a bit less, to learn in this lifetime, and decide if you want to try to be saved and spend an ETERNITY with god, or else.
Sorry you feel that way.
I never found out about the "or else" until AFTER I got saved. Avoiding the "or else" was never my motivation.
You also miss out on living with God in your life in the here and now. It's not just a ticket to Heaven when you die.
I'd hate to live without Him daily, NOW.
"I'd hate to live without Him daily, NOW. "
I just see it as a case of extreme unfairness.
For logic's sake:
If God is real. And God being real and being God would be perfect...
If those two statements are true, then wouldn't He be absolutely fair and just? Perfection = zero mistakes
How often a single perspective view can mistakingly conclude is 359 times out of 360.. We only get one angle, and that's is only 1 degree out of 359 if we use a two-dimentional example.
We misunderstand each other constantly, and I see the Bible as the same thing.
People looking at a single sentence here or there, when it wants you to see the big picture. They pick the men apart and the choices made in it, and the flaws of man are focused on rather than the will of God.
God wants us to love Him. Seek Him. And love everyone else.
Sin is opposite of this. Hate - greed - deceit - lies - murder - theivery - cheating - destroying.
It's hard to swallow reality, because reality is hard. But God wants people who are willing to look past man's errors, and find Him.
[I know, miniature sermon.. lol just sayin]
Only if your "punishment" were in response to your rejection.
However, that is not the case.
Humanity IS LOST. Salvation redeems us, so it's a blessing.
I think you voiced a point that many make. I will "burn in Hell for rejecting Jesus".
NO, X1000! NO.
Rejecting Jesus is equal to rejecting redemption, and leaves one in the lost state they were in all along.
And you think that '120years, and usually quite a bit less' is not sufficient?
Amazing... and the 'or else' is purely and ONLY your choice.
You just make it by default if you don't decide for yourself.
Why on earth not? it's hardly rocket science and all the evidence required is here for us to read, in 70 years anyone could read every holy book on earth, and visit at least one of every place of worship, and even explore all the non worship places...
Google 'biographies religious search'
If you look, the list you come up with might astound you of those who have done what agua said could be.
[at least I think that's what you were requesting evidence for]
I wasnt asking for evidence of anything.
I just wanted clarification of what he was using the word for in that context, as it didnt make any sense.
I think he is pointing out that if there is no God and you search then there will be no finding and you can then conclude no God.
But if there is a God, then He obviously creates things for a reason, and for a purpose, and not only that but everything that happens has a 'carbon trail' so to speak. Evidence is left regarding any and everything.
Where did this come from.. evidence
How did that come about.. evidence
What 'caused' this to happen.. evidence
And if God is real, then you will find Him. [unless a bias exists beforehand]
God is all powerful. Why would He want to MAKE anyone do anything? [He can do that without effort, even 'make' something that already loves Him]
That's the whole point. You can't enjoy someone's presence if you 'made' them stay around....
Beautiful girls get people that don't care about them all the time.
If God showed His glory people would come to Him because of that and not because because they understand and love Him.
God doesn't need fake people..... He wants love.
If He makes people love Him, then is that love?
God knows what He is doing. It's everyone else that doesn't get it.
Trust is the master factor. Misunderstanding leads people astray.
Because they don't understand and accuse God rather than try to trust Him.
Yet YOUR God is just about as fake as anything can get...IMAGINARY.
If He sends people to eternal torture for not LOVING him, is that love? Is it?
And what He is doing is completely absurd. I do get that.
Yes, and remain a mental slave to an indoctrinated delusion. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
So true. Like the misunderstanding that the writings of primitive, ignorant goat-herders is actually the word of the Creator of the universe.
Trusting in God gains nothing but willful ignorance, and an inability to think on a mature level.
Vector, it appears you only like to talk about the wonderful side of your god, yet ypu dismiss any of his negative aspects. Why?
Because I've already seen past it.
Deception isn't anything new. I can see Him for who He is.. My Father.
He gave me my LIFE. I've looked and still wonder at things I read in the OT, and pray to Him.. "Father, help me understand. Why?!"
Often times I'm in the dark for a long period of time and things seem to point to the same sentiments that you and many others state, that He isn't good.
But I've been through the episodes so many times, and He always shows me why, and no it's not easy to explain.. that's why our Christian 5 page explanation doesn't get the job done, God wrote a whole Bible for a reason.
I KNOW what God in my Holy Bible looks like from human eyes. But do you have any clue how many people and children I've noticed misunderstand a single thing I done and jumped straight to accusations? When my actions were LOVING....
I know God, and know He is love and the horrible things aren't because of Him. If He gives anyone a cup to drink.. IT WILL PROFIT THEM AND BRING THEM HAPPINESS in the end.
I can't prove things to you. He has it set to where each person have to come to Him themselves. All I can do is keep telling everyone what I know is true.
God is love. Jesus Christ saves. I trust Him with my life. He gave me every second of 26 years so far and looking back I can 'see' answered prayers I thought weren't. But hindsight is 20/20 . .
He gave me everything. And I won't turn against the one who gave me life because bad things exist. He tells us why and to hang on, and He'll fix it.
Just like a loving Father would.
This is classic Christian delusional logic. Make silly, whimsical statements with no basis in fact, then become childishly difficult when asked to reconcile their nonsense with REAL morals.
This is why you are NOT to be taken seriously.
I simply showed you, STRAIGHTFORWARD, AND HONESTLY, how your assertions are immoral. Perhaps what you really believe in is immorality, because your god shows nothing but immorality.
You showed nothing of the sort, you are just another poster who makes inane remarks and works on the 'drip drip' formula that you can change things by your repetitious nonsense.
Fortunately the readers decide who is correct.
Yet you seem like a man of above average intellect. I guess the Holy Spirit requires a temporary suspension of mental acuity.
And only the most psychotic readers would conclude that the assertions of Vector7, or you, merit any rational value. You guys simply spout primitive nonsense based upon abject false hope.
I don't hardly bother reading, and especially responding to this one.
He/she hides behind all the empty rhetoric like a school bully that hides behind the teachers skirt.
You are only fooling yourself with this smug attitude. But you and I know that your nonsensical, dishonest debating skills were no match for me. I held your feet to the fire, and you just continued to lie. Still I held your feet to the fire, and you lied some more. And to this day, you have not introduced me to your God. But, still, you keep lying, saying that we must put ourselves in some delusional trance, and recite some insane drivel, in order to meet your God. That's not meeting God, that's brainwashing someone into BELIEVING that they have met God. YOU HAVE NO GOD, AND YOU KNOW IT.
You have nothing except dishonesty.
With respect John I have sympathy with janesix's argument. Jesus condemned Capernaum for their lack of belief in Him when he visited them and performed signs. he also condemned Chorazin for the same. It seems to me that he spoke against those who had no excuse for not believing such as them and the Pharisees, as being present amoungst them, they had no excuse. Perhaps this is why he said that all the blood of the prophets would be visited on that generation.
But we don't have the luxury of seeing His miracles and the World simply cannot see him walking amoungst them. Thus is the standard of unbelief the same now as it was 2000 years ago. Will people be condemned in the same way as Capernaumites or Pharisees?
Some don't believe not because of refusal but because they have other things in their life and never consider the question.
Finally if civilised western societies consider that no crime is worthy of death, then how can any crime be worthy of eternal destruction? If judgement is defined as balance and punishment befitting the crime, then annihilation/eternal torment etc is hardly warranted for not believing. This is what the unbelieving cannot reconcile and if believers are truely honest they find this uncomfortable and illogical too, but they choose to avoid the issue and stick to their interpreted doctrines instead.
You have read my beliefs on hell, so you know what they are.
I posit that God MUST prepare a place for those who for whatever reason cannot be with Him for eternity.
I make no reference to that place being the hell described in scripture, but it must be a place where God decides NOT to exercise His authority, in order to accommodate those who reside there and do not desire to obey or be with Him willingly.
I doubt any human being can live for 70 years or more without illustrating with their life whether they a) desire and b) are entitled, to live with God for eternity or qualify for separation FROM God for eternity.
There is not so much judgement there as certification, i.e. we all show God what our hearts contain and from the desires of our hearts we illustrate where we should go upon death (or more precisely, upon judgement; after we soul sleep.)
We are the judge and jury, we provide the evidence of our guilt or innocence, our decision is reflected in our lives.
You speak of the death penalty.
The death penalty is indeed repugnant to most humans in the western world, and has mainly been repealed by the world, but NOT by God, or at least not where I have ever found it repealed.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Gods word still demands blood for blood, and where this is not carried out, the ground is cursed by God where the offence happened.
Genesis 4 covers it for us.
Modern events confirm it's continuation.
In Malaysia, where I live, they still hang murderers and drug dealers (and rapists)and as a consequence, those crimes are very rare, and hardly ever not premeditated.
I am not condoning the death penalty, merely indicating that despite it being abhorrent to civilised man, it does function well as the deterrent God intended it to be.
God values our blood, and although I do not understand why that is (except the life is in the blood) I can agree that God knows more than I do and is to be trusted.
My child obeys me even when she does not understand why I prohibit something, because she also knows that I desire her safety and peace more than life itself, and she sees as she ages that there are sound reasons why I say no to some things.
Our questioner expects that God will show them the evidence of His love and wisdom, without any requirement from them to actually TRUST that someone, in this instance God, knows better than then\m about what makes a successful life, and a contented eternity.
I also think it is considerably harder to enter 'that place' we call hell than folk imagine, but that is another issue!
It is just as likely Earnest was confronted with Zeus or Thor or Allah or (insert any name amongst the hundreds of gods believed to exist throughout history)...
But, I see you still believe Earnest is burning as we speak.
You make sense and sensible points Mark, but I personally am learning not to bother - they are brainwashed to the point that they need to be deprogrammed by derren brown or someone similar.
Speaking personally after 42 years in the world, living the life, my brain needed washing, and has been better for it since I cleared out all the garbage the world 'teaches' it's inhabitants.
Guess I was answering your point about brainwashing... as if ONLY Christianity was brainwashing folk, take a look at the media, the world in general and the way that the world system brainwashes it's victims from birth.
I chose to wash my brain clean of all the crap the world had laid on me.
Are you sure you have not been brainwashed by the world?
Agua the media turns you into a consumer of products and spender of money etc... The church / bible trains your brain into not thinking for yourself and not seeing sense. Makes you much more amenable to things like the hypodermic media needle.
Do you think you have not been brainwashed by your god?
I must take issue here. The bible does train one to think for themselves. However after 25 years in Church thinking for oneself was actively discouraged. In fact I was criticised for thinking too much
There's the difference, the Church pushes doctrine; it's interpretations, over one's own self study of the bible. It was always thus.
If God wanted to brainwash everyone Kirk, you seriously think you would have a choice?
What kind of logic rolls through that cranium anyway bud?
In all your self righteous pontificating, I don't see an answer to my question.
What exactly does "stuffed with god," mean?
Catch up Mark, everyone else seems to understand it.
Help me out here. Its a simple enough question.
Go on - see if you can do it without the self righteous BS.
It was in the first post I made to you in this thread:
Right there Mark, stop this nonsense, stalking does not become you!
It's not my fault if you cannot understand, or choose to try and 'throw the stick' again and again....
Maybe its a 'cup overfloweth' with an overbearing belief in a Christain God Mark. I dunno, I know that 'stuffed' usually refers to full of food or very tired, or used to tell someone where to go impolitely.
In American English "stuffed" means "full." Don't know if anyone's mentioned that yet, but it might bring a new twist to the conversation.
Glad you pointed that out. When I saw the title of the OP I had to laugh. I think both far ends are 'stuffed' full of it.
Yes - it's been mentioned several times.
English is not the same and both as and I are English.
I am sure he will give us a full explanation soon.
I figured someone had mentioned it. I didn't read through the entire thread. Welcome back, btw, Mark. Haven't seen you around in quite a while.
Thanks. Been busy. This one came up because as is always threatening in god's name that unless us atheists start believing - we are "stuffed with god," so I wondered whether our dead pal Ernest was now stuffed or not.
Having trouble getting answers though. Which is weird, because as is usually absolutely certain of what god wants and what god does with those of us who reject The Nonsense.
I think Ernest enjoyed his life immensely. I'm pretty sure he wasn't too concerned about what came after. As far as that goes, all that matters was how he lived and the fact that he left this life peacefully and surrounded by love.
Absolutely. Ernest and I discussed these things before he died. He was more correct in his predictions than I was. I think his time as a bible thumper gave him a slightly better insight into the breed.
I am more interested in the beliefs and warnings as dishes out all the time. Mostly about making a choice before it is too late!
He keeps warning me I am in all sorts of trouble after I am dead because I reject the Holy Spirit. In fact - I spit on the very idea. As did Ernest.
But when it comes down to vocalizing this about our dead pal - it seems difficult for him to accept that he worships a creature that will - according to him - punish us after we die.
Unless all the dire warnings are for naught. In which case - his life is somewhat empty.
Maybe he just used the word out of context.
Oh - I think if you take it in context, we have an interesting picture of what this person gets off on.
Considering your elaborated and dramatized threading I think we have an interesting picture of what you get off on.
"IF" when the body dies, the spirit goes back to where it came? The body dieing is not such a bad thing. At least from Gods perspective.
Perhaps it would be good if people suffering from psychosis understood, that they have NEVER TALKED TO GOD, but actually are appealing to their delusion(their own mind) for the appropriate ego-defense mechanism to assuage the cognitive dissonance.
Perhaps it would be good if people who had never communicated with God would stop trying to pretend that they knew what they were talking about.
That would include you. You have NEVER talked to God.
It is interesting, from a psychological perspective, how you deal with the cognitive dissonance associated with your illogical Weltanschauung. You immediately become indignant, and forcefully attack the person causing the cognitive dissonance.
"Reality Anxiety" seems the cause. I understand how difficult it must be to live in a world that's based in reality, BUT persist in holding on to the ideas and conflicting instructions of primitive, ignorant, unknown authors. Yet your ego defense mechanisms will always rescue you.
I understand this as indicative of the fact that you NEED this delusion...as some of us need air.
Reality has become IMPOSSIBLE for you to face.
Go ahead and fight the fight, brother.
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