If you sin enough and horrible enough can you lose your salvation?
Saved from what?
If you mean saved from hell what definition of hell are you using? There are so many in circulation.
If you mean the Lake of Fire (whatever that actually is) no nobody is saved from it until the judgement throne where God makes the decision about who is in and who is out. That decision is based upon names in the book of life which incidentally the bible does not explicitly state how to get your name written into.
Thus gaining or loosing salvation is not determined until the resurection.
Hey DH, I see you have been studying. You might find out a little earlier where you stand (Rev. 16).
Yeah, read the book comprised of humorous and rediculous stories (yes, I mean the Bible) to get your answer. Or, just maybe, you can think for yourself and get a better answer. First of all, sin is an ancient, man-made invention designed to keep people in line and under control. Now go from there.
We are not to judge the heart of another, but we can look at the "fruit" produced in someone's life to kind of know where they might be in their belief. My only thought really on your question would be to ask if they are really saved to begin with. Mind you, we continue to sin after being saved, but there is more of a sensitivity to conviction that leads to repentance and a desire/effort to not try and make the same mistakes again. Sometimes we have issues that are "thorns in our side" that we will deal with our entire life. Why? I don't know. We all have our weaknesses. I think the key is if there is true repentance afterwards. True repentance is acknowledging the sin and trying not to do it again. So, again...my answer is a question: Are they really saved to begin with...it's more than just saying a prayer. That's the beginning, but there's more growing to be done. It's a total change of heart and mind that begins to happen; therefore our desires to sin/not sin change.
I worry about this too, and there are some verses that keep me on my toes:
Rev. 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
1 Timothy 1: 5-7 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
So you see, it's possible for us to get that off track.
This isn't about faltering that you're asking though. Rather, you're asking about losing completely your salvation.
Really, it's not that we "lose" it. It's that we TURN from it. There's a big difference! Salvation has been won and already given to us! From there, it's our choice! And there are lots of scripture on it to tell us when we are headed down that path and what to do. I love google. I just type in "verse about" and then add in whatever issue I'm looking for, and voila. Praying for ya!!
Just one of many requirements. To be saved you must endure until the end. Saved from what? You still die, you are still diseased stricken, you are still living in sin, so what are you saved from? No man is saved, only those who endure until the end, shall be saved (Matt. 24:13).To endure till the end means you must obey the Father's Truth/Word, which is the law, until death or upon the return of His Son. Plain and simple. Do not be deceived.
Hmm...So at what point does one do "too much" sinning? After a really heinous crime? After so many lies?
My comment was meant to point out that I never saw "good works" as ever being a requisite for salvation, in my study of the Bible.In fact, it's quite clearly pointed out that our "good works" are filthy.
Not that we shouldn't do them. But my emphasis was on one's heart condition, not necessarily one's actions.
It really would not be to your benefit to repeatedly repent for the same thing. This would show mockery towards The Father. No one will be saved on good works alone. There is a matter of obedience and faith that will be taken into consideration among other things, I'm sure. Faith may very well be the chief agent. Naw, you can't lie to Him, He can read your heart. " Lord, Lord, have I not done great works in your Name....
Sometimes we do the same wrong thing over and over. I think if the person is truly repentant, that is one thing. If they're not, God'll know. So it's more of a heart issue than it is a deeds issue..
What then is the wrong thing to do....?
I tell you truly, the wrong thing is thinking that you can do the wrong thing.
This man repentance is actually strenghtening root of sin in himself, by thinking he can turn away from doing the wrong thing and do right.
The man who thinks, right will always do right and he.shall find no condemnation in himself.
Thinking right is thinking that you can do no wrong.....
So if I think everything is right, like murder, then I can do no wrong?
This is why freedom comes only when you stop the wrong thinking...
what is murder? Is it not the result of wrong thinking.
I am starting to think that you are a danger to society.
You are absolutely correct...
The society that is dominated by their wrong thinking as you consistently strive to preserve and perpetuate.
MY thinking tells me that murder is WRONG so I don't do it.
You are saying that if you think everything is right then you can do no wrong, in other words, you are saying that murder is ok as long as you think it is right.
I REALLY REALLY hope you are mistakenly using the wrong language to get your point across otherwise, if I had the authority, I would put you under very very close supervision.
Only wrong thinkers talks about murder....
and they are the.originators of it....
Stop hearing yourself and hear me...
Anyone who thinks murder is wrong doesn't murder. You are saying that as long as you think everything is right then you can't do wrong.
If you think that everything is right, then you must think that murder is right and if you cant see why you are a danger to society then we have a serious problem with you loose in our society.
Thus your fear of the murderer causes you to do the same ... And murder continues.
This is the present situation in this society...
and I am showing you the better way...but you made me your enemy and enemy to the society that murders.
I can only tell you the Truth and leave you to think what you like.
Wrong thinking kills all it subjects.
Right thinking free all its subjects.
So in hearing me you shall live, otherwise you will recieve what you have chosen.
You're not making any sense. Just because someone fears murder does not mean they will commit murder.
You are claiming that murder is right as long as you think it is right. If that is what you actually mean to say then you should be in isolation away from other people.
You have made yourself the perfect example of the wrong thinkers.....
They inject their negativity into that which is pure, and at the same time accusing the innocent of that which belongs to themselves.
Your dense heart can only see the contents of itself that is why you can only speak of murder and lockup...
What are you going to do in the day when your own.heart turn against you to eat you?
Are you going to remember that I told you these things, that you may be free of yourself?
No...you can't ...fod you will mentain that you are innocent.
Not really sure I understand what you are trying to say sorry...
Many obey God's Truth/Word without calling themselves Christians, but by living in accordance with their good conscience. I guess they will be saved then.
So at least we can agree that salvation is by obedience to what we know is right, not by believing a set of doctrines, and confirms that judgement is in accordance with what each of us has done in life.
Tje one who believes his salvation can be lost will lose it.
I have to disagree. If one believes they may/can lose something they want, wouldn't that more than likely keep them on their toes in effort not to lose it?
What then is salvation? Is it a cycle of faith and fear?
I tell you in such a man, the fear dominates and that man is dead.
For unless assurance comes that man is not free from death which is take it form through that man fear.
So evidently Salvation is freedom from death. And if the man still fears then salvation is still far from him.
When I said lost, it not to imply that he once had it, it just a manner of speaking according to the understanding of the man.
Language barrier perhaps I think I understand what you're getting at now. Basically, if someone fears (questions) their own salvation then they may not be saved? I agree with that. Yes.
"What then is salvation? Is it a cycle of faith and fear?"
Acceptance of Christ into our hearts and then a life of continually seeking God, a process of failures, repentence and healings that form us into His image over time. A definite process.
Fear? Not the kind of fear that makes you doubt or worry or cause confusion. A righteous fear of God is an ultimate respect of God.
There is only one faith...and that is Life
There is only one fear...that is death.
If ones faith incorporates fear then his faith is nullified by his fear....this is why death still reigns over those who have a.claim of faith
Usually when you lose something it is because you have lost track of that particular thing.
People keep track of what is most important to them because of its genuineness, value, and power it has in that person's life. There are protocols and preventative measures that are in place if the item or thing becomes vulnerable.
With that said, without any of these, the authenticity of the thing would come into question.
Concepts like salvation and god generate different responses depending on a person's beliefs.
If god created flawed humans so he could send them to hell when they screwed up, he/she must have some serious issues. Salvation from such a psychotic character is very desirable indeed.
There are many, many people who hold that believing in a religion isn't necessarily the same as believing in a god, and to them the issue of "salvation" is a non issue.
You know Hugh, I've read many threads since coming to hubpages. There are those on both sides, for and against. I stay out of the conversations unless I just here something that's flat out not so and even then I normally choose to keep my commits to myself because there will be nothing gained. People have the right to believe what they want. I believe that ALL the questions will be answered. So for believers and non-believers alike," let those with a ear hear." That's about all that will be accomplished in the never ending debates.
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