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Why, if you are Black, did you join the Mormon Church?

  1. Rodric29 profile image83
    Rodric29posted 5 years ago

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6557653_f248.jpg
    As a Black Mormon I get this question often. Other Blacks honestly want to know and non-Blacks who know Mormon History also desire to have some understanding. The key to understanding is to listen to what many people have to say about the issue. If you are African American, or of African ancestry post your comments and add to this discussion. If you are not Black, contribute also.

    Be respectful, be honest and be fair. Mormon hate-speech is not allowed. Honest concerns and questions are allowed. I include a picture of my wife and seven kids. The one in the picture is passed away. I will hub about it one day.

    1. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I suppose there are not many Black Mormons on hubpages.com.

      1. Cagsil profile image61
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good guess. It's either that or your subject matter isn't appealing. lol

        1. Rodric29 profile image83
          Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Probably both.

          1. Cagsil profile image61
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'll leave that to you to reconcile. lol

            1. Rodric29 profile image83
              Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Cagsil, you are the one who started this forum to rocket off. Thanks.

          2. Eaglekiwi profile image72
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I wouldnt place too much relevance on it just not being appealing to active members on HP. (It is one site among thousands!)
            It is a good question never the less.

      2. Jesus was a hippy profile image58
        Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Surely one would join a church that shares the same religious beliefs as they do?

    2. ananceleste profile image81
      anancelesteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. Cagsil profile image61
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What questions?

      2. Rodric29 profile image83
        Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. Cagsil profile image61
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Conjecture. And, overall a badly skewed perception.

          1. Rodric29 profile image83
            Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Cagsil, if you are going to offer advice here, please do so with explanations. Explain you criticism or they will be taken as the attacks they appear to be. This forum is for exploring what I means to be Black and Mormon and to feel safe to express feelings and that others will  provide thoughtful explanations.

            I am glad you want to stick around and comment, but I cannot allow you to turn this into another anti-Mormon bash and bait. I will delete the comments and forum first.

            Please make you intentions clear.

            1. Cagsil profile image61
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Offer advice about Religion? Sure, drop it.
              Well, isn't that nice of you consider criticism which is unexplained as an attack. That's not very rational, you know.

              I stated that what you said was conjecture and a very bad perception, which was skewed. You taking the effort to blame parents for their children's understanding is beyond all reason and a blatant attack on all non-religious families.

              If a child chooses to walk away from religious scripture for whatever reason, then that is something of their own choosing. I don't give a damn if the parents disagree or not. People walk away from Churches to never return because of either it's members or because the scripture itself doesn't jive.

              Blaming parents is foolish.
              It's a public forum OPEN to ALL members regardless of religious belief. If you don't like, too bad.
              I don't bash or bait. I address irrational thinking, which is what you've managed to do so far in this thread.
              The only thing you can delete are the posts you've made within the last 3 hours. But, you could email staff and ask them to close this thread to reply, but then what would you learn?
              My intentions are always clear and presently available for you to read above. wink tongue

              1. Rodric29 profile image83
                Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I am sorry, I must have been irritable that yesterday. Say what you like, but please be kind.

        2. Jesus was a hippy profile image58
          Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It is not the church or the parents making kids leave. It is the simple fact that they don't believe what they are being told and why should they?

          There is no evidence for the claims so the fact that they disbelieve them simply shows that they are learning to use critical thinking skills as I did when I was a kid.

          1. Rodric29 profile image83
            Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Deleted

            1. Jesus was a hippy profile image58
              Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You mean a more consistent brainwashing routine? Whether or not you agree is irrelevant. How can you say it is not a matter of belief? Do you know exactly what every church leaver is thinking? How could you make such a claim that requires you to know what they are all thinking?



              Of course they will not. Because that is paramount to BRAINWASHING. Children are looking to learn from their adults but they are not old enough to decide for themselves. "Training" a child to believe YOUR belief is tantamount to child ABUSE because they cannot decide for themselves.



              Didn't your first sentence just say that you didn't agree with that statement? And your last one says that you do?

              Im confused. I think you might be too.

              1. Rodric29 profile image83
                Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What is you business here. This is for people who believe in God not for people who think it is brainwashing. You cannot wash a brain that has no experience. Children have empty brains and we fill them.

                I want you to post here, but as I made abundantly clear in the first post, your behavior will not be tolerated. Come respectfully or leave. We don't need you telling us that what we believe is wrong. Find a different forum to express your disenchantment.

                1. Jesus was a hippy profile image58
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The topic was so random it gained my interest. A church is for people who believe in a god, the internet is for everyone.



                  Yes you can



                  And if you fill them with unfounded beliefs for which you have no evidence by means of consistently repeating to them what you want them to believe through means of constant church ceremonies and constant teachings at home, then that is called brainwashing



                  My behaviour is perfectly acceptable. If you cannot tolerate disagreement then I think you will have many problems throughout your life.



                  What you need is not my issue. I have been respectful. Respect does not entale agreeing with everything said.

              2. Rodric29 profile image83
                Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I see that I cannot control this forum drat. I wanted a place where I could share my thoughts with other LDS people and not have the hater on Hubs coming in and judging and hen picking.

                You don't always get what you want. I get tired of people who have nothing better to do that pick apart other people's beliefs. I don't have time to do that.

                I wonder what God would think of me if I went and picked a part some other person's belief just because I think it is silly.? I already know.

                1. Jesus was a hippy profile image58
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  By the way, I "pick it apart" because it causes wars, hurts children, causes pain and suffering, causes divisions in communities and is something that the world could do without.

                  Not to mention the fact that it is false.

                  1. Rodric29 profile image83
                    Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I let my emotions get the best of me and I ruined a good thing. Maybe we can start over. Pick apart my beliefs. I will share my precious things with my family who will hold them sacred.

                    Religion can harm children and the lack of it can harm them also. I see the different children who grow to teens without a value system. The value system that we have in our society is based on the institution of religion. Men created religion, not God.

                    I think that we need to differentiate between the two. Parents are to teach faith in God first, then comes the mores of religion. Any child with a firm faith in God will weather any storm. I did.

                    I had a strong and real faith in God as a teenager. That did not stop me from being awkward or lame and it did not make me immune to all the hurt and damage that kids can experience. What it did  give me is a place to run to when the storms came that I could trust. I had a perfect understanding of who God was and is in my life.

                    I did not join the Mormon church because I found God there, even though I did. I joined it because I felt good there. The Book of Mormon showed me why I should believe in Jesus. The missionaries told me where to go to ask questions, God.  I did the rest. I am sure my children will do the same thing. 

                    I hope they choose the path that I set for them. If they do not, I will love them the same. Life is too short to care about those small things. I have already lost on child to death, I will be damned if I loose a child because of pride. I don't care what the decide to worship after I have taught them where to go for answers aside from my own to give.

                    I know that if I can get a relationship with God on  my own my kids can also.

                    Forcing kids to believe something is wrong, yes. But persuading them to believe is what God expects us to do. He is not about Forcing or we would all be the same religions on this planet. He will give us what we are willing to take.

                    I will give my kids what they will take after they remove themselves from my house. We are Mormons and we worship God. When you move out you can be Baptist or Jewish and I will love you the same--especially with the things that my faith teach about wayward children and the truth about each religion being a part of the whole truth I still will win in the end.

                    I am so confident in the Gospel of Jesus Christ about these things that I forget to worry sometimes--I said sometimes.

                2. wmhoward4 profile image76
                  wmhoward4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Rodric    I am sorry for all those folks giving you a hard time. I am glad you were brave enough to bring up the subject.

                  I am a Catholic and I have noticed an increase in African Americans in church on Sunday. When I was younger I never saw any. Actually the Church is more diverse because the country is more integrated.

                  You sound like a person with something good resting in your heart. Amen.

                  1. Rodric29 profile image83
                    Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Wmhoward4, your kindness is a balm. I think that we can come to a unity of faith and prepare the world for the second coming. If we could only see each other the way God can see us.

                    It would not matter what religion then.

                  2. Rodric29 profile image83
                    Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Also, with over a billion aherents, the Pope has a lot of souls to lead to God. I pray he has the inspiration to guide those who put their faith in his leadership. There are too many Catholics for God not to have a hand in that church. Everywhere good people are, there will the spirit of God be also.

      3. Rodric29 profile image83
        Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I want to try this again because I read my reply to your personal circumstance and I seemed to be laying the blame in your lap.

        First of all, if I gave you that impression, shame on me. What I meant by not having the right family support is not that you personally cause you son to question anything. What I mean by that is that we need each other. My 14-year-old son does not identify with me and will not listen to me on many things. I cannot provide him the support he needs at home to help him gain his on witness of the truth. That is true of most Families. I have served with many elders on my mission who had to gain on their own the witness after the family was no longer in the picture.

        I have faith if I keep doing what I know to be right that I can pray as Alma did for his son ang get heavenly intervention.

    3. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No matter how much you try to deny the reality of The Church of Latter Day Saints, the facts remain. 

      As a black person, I could never join a religion that declares that I'm cursed, and that I don't have the intellectual prowess that God requires to be a leader.

      Although these doctrines are declared to NOW be wrong, why were they ever there in the first place?  It appears that if the founders got that wrong, then there must be many other things wrong.

      This also goes for the Christian religion as a whole, as religion was used, with passages from the bible, to argue the inferiority of the black race.

      The only position that I can take as a reasonable black person, is to be a non-believer in anything whatsoever.  The Mormons, and all Judeo/Christains and Muslims, can keep their racist, nonsensical beliefs out of my life.

      1. Rodric29 profile image83
        Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I feel you on that. All the major and minor religions have racist underpinnings. I do not put much stock in the religions themselves, including my own. Where I put stock is in God. From there I weigh the rest based on what He tells me.

        I know that I sound strange, but I have pussyfooted long enough. I came out in or monthly testimony meeting. I talk to God and he talks back. It is the truth. I don't just get a warm feeling or a good impression, I hear words spoken in my mind as answers to my prayers along with those feelings.

        Call me crazy, but the Bible teaches that this can happen and so does the Book of Mormon. I still have doubts and questions, but never if God is real or if His Church is true. Those things are none issues for me.

        I still am perplexed as to why Brigham Young made the decision to ban Blacks from the priesthood when Mormons were historically abolitionists. It was allowed though, and not amount of prayer will change the past.

        Men created religion. God organized his church and sent forth principles to follow and ordinances to perform. Anything extra is just opinion. God allows even is prophets to have wrong opinions for a while before he steps in, Moses and his uncircumcised son, Jonah and the city of Nineveh just off the top of my head--oh and Peter and the unclean meat. Humans make mistakes. God doesn't though.

    4. Pamela Kinnaird W profile image85
      Pamela Kinnaird Wposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If people would re-read your question instead of thinking up some of their own hateful questions and answers, this could have been a better experience for you.  I noticed in reading the comments there have been some good people responding to your question who have tolerance and love in their hearts, but not many.

      Rodric29, you have a beautiful family.

      1. Rodric29 profile image83
        Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you so much Pamela for you personal contact and you response here. I saved your email with the intention of contact you by email but it never did happen, not yet anyway.

        I am so grateful for the peace and happiness that my exposure to the Church has brought me such joy! I get to associate with so many great people. I went to the temple last week and a woman approached me, and elderly sister who served a mission in Nigeria. Apparently I looked Nigerian becasue she came to me with tears in her eyes and a righeousness that I cannot describe in her clear eyes. She told me how she and her husband labored in Nigeria for five years  finally were rewarded with a temple for the local saints to enjoy. I, the way I looked, reminded her of the good memories and blessing she experience in Nigeria.

        I listened to her. SHe looked deep into my eyes, so deep, and love me for all those memories and experiences even though I m American. She looked into my eyes and I saw the love she expressed though her words could be mistaken as racist in nature some how.

        When she left we I wept. I wept because God allowed me to help that good woman remember missionary service among Blacks in Nigeria. I helped her remember the people that she loved. She saw me and love me for looking like those people that she left and still love.

        She, that elderly woman, helped me feel humble just by being where I was. I reaffirmed her faith in the work that she did with those People changes their lives.

        I am glad that my heart is not full of hate or offense at what happened in the past, I learned if from my mother--the forgiving. My mother Joined the church while I served as a missionary. She still hasn't changed all her racist ideas from the past, but she accepted the LDS church as the Lords official spokes-church on the earth.

    5. tohimilook profile image60
      tohimilookposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have had a visit from the Mormon and also from the Jehovah's Witnesses and I have told them in no uncertain terms that I am not interested in their brand of Christianity.  That is my personal view.

      Racism has been the core of ALL religious institutions.  When I was a girl only the whites could sit in the front pews of the Anglican and Catholic churches. 

      You feel happy and fulfilled being a member of the Mormon church and that is very good.  From the looks of it you seem to have a wonderful family. What I do not understand is that you cannot expect people to accept your religion.   I personally do not accept any prophets except those mentioned in the bible.. and that goes for Mormonism, SDA, or any other. The bible is where I state my claim for authority.

      Every denomination believes that they are the TRUE CHURCH.   God states that he knows who belong to him.  I will not enter into a debate about this. 

      People have their views and I believe they should be able to express them.  I believe that people are justified when they condemn organise religion.  We must all understand that there is a vast diffference between religion and Christianity.  Religion is manmade and Christianity is of God. Religion is what the Scribes and Pharisees had, no wonder they were so opposed to Jesus.

      1. Rodric29 profile image83
        Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks for sharing your beliefs here. I am very fulfilled with my relationship with God. My Church is also a source of fulfillment. I do not expect people to accept my religion. I don't accept other religions. I tolerate all religions as I expect my religion to be tolerated.

        I do not sit around and post terrible things about Baptists. I like Baptists. I think they do great work to help people get closer to God. I feel the same about Jehovah's Witnesses. If every Christian was as dedicated as the Jehovah's Witnesses we would have more than just 2.1 billion people Claiming to be Christians.

        We do not have to focus on being different when we have so much in common and can edify each other in the faith.

        When my daughter passed away I had a terrible time dealing with accepting that God would not allow me to call her back from the dead. I have the faith. The autopsy reports show that there was nothing physically wrong with her body that would have prevented her from living a normal life. I was angry with God and told him so. I refused to be comforted, but one day I broke down and allowed God to fill my spirit with love. The Spirit of God directed me to Jeremiah chapter 10. When I read those words, it brought peace to my heart.

        Of all the scriptures I have, I found comfort in the words of Jeremiah in the Bible. I know that the Bible is the word of God given to men for instruction and improvement. Thanks for sharing.

  2. Rodric29 profile image83
    Rodric29posted 5 years ago

    Shared my story in a hub <snipped - no promotional links in the forums>

    It is a lengthy version of how I came to the church. Check it out and post a remark or ask a question. I will answer any question in this forum. Whether you like the answer or not is a different story.

    1. Cagsil profile image61
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Maybe you might consider reading the rules?

      http://hubpages.com/help/forum_rules

      1. Rodric29 profile image83
        Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I just read the rules as you suggested. What is your point? Could you contact me personally at all about it?

  3. ananceleste profile image81
    anancelesteposted 5 years ago

    I am so sorry if my reply stirred anything bad, I will delete the post. That was never my intention.Blessings.
    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6612659.jpg

    1. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No, don't delete it.

      1. Rodric29 profile image83
        Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Too late huh. I realize that these forums are not safe from outsiders intruding on our faith, but that is why we go to church on Sunday and have family home evening and family prayer and other things in our lives. I wish I could express how awesome my church family, my ward family is online.

  4. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 5 years ago

    I had a very dear friend who was a Mormon, and she was a wonderful person, as was the rest of her Mormon family.

    1. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I am glad you had a good experience. When I first became a Latter-day Saint I thought all Mormons were nice and understanding and such. We left Georgia as a family and moved to New York, Rochester New York, near the birth place of the LDS Church. One LDS kid thought it would be cool to tempt the only Black Mormon by trying to sell me drugs and give up my only set of scriptures for money.

      Thankfully a pair of Jehovah's Witness visited my home and helped me better understand the restored gospel by giving me Anti Mormon literature. I read what they had to give me and prayed about everything. The Lord helped me find the answers to all my questions. I was not going to leave the church over what happened in the past, even at 17. I found Christ through reading the Book of Mormon and I learned how to pray and communicate with God because a Mormon Missionary, Russell Sheridan taught me how to pray.

      Every since then I have been on my own about religion.

      1. wmhoward4 profile image76
        wmhoward4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Jehovah's Witness giving you anti-Morman literature?

        I saw a Cristian bookstore where they had books that were anti-Morman, anti-Jehovah's Witness and anti-Catholic. I am sure some groups think they are the only true Christians.

        Truth s true Christians, acording to Christs own words will be known buy their deeds and that they love one another. I would say that to love is to be a vessel of the power of God.

        1. Rodric29 profile image83
          Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The were not trying to be mean when they gave me the literature They were nice people and only thought I should have been informed about the church I espoused. I am glad they cared enough. I was surrounded by Jehovah's Witnesses and Kingdom Halls. The did not believe in answers to prayer and I knew different having believed that until the Mormons came knocking on my door.

  5. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 5 years ago

    There seems to be an implied suggestion people would seeing be black and Mormon as inconsistent, but I have no idea why. People are Mormon, people of different genetic backgrounds are Mormon, why not? Non-issue.

    1. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Then you only think so because you do not know the history. Each Black person who joins the church has to deal with some of the racist ideas that were taught as truths in the church. Even though some of these teachers were never mentioned as official doctrines, they are hurtful.

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well I guess you need to write that hub then.

        1. Rodric29 profile image83
          Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Psycheckinner, you are right. I will write the hub one day, but not anytime soon. It is such a nightmare to cover. There are so many hurt feelings and people get easily offended.

          I plan to do it in the near future though.

  6. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image95
    Marcy Goodfleischposted 5 years ago

    Your family photo is beautiful, Rodric - and the family values of the church are just one of the many reasons I joined, too.

    1. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Marcy, you are too kind. I went to the temple this morning and tears streamed down my face from the time I stepped into the building and they are still there. I was so awed by the greatness of God and his goodness in my life. I was thankful for a building like the temple I could go and rid myself of the distractions of the world--without climbing a mountain that is.

      I felt the peace of God and received vivid answers to some very personal and important issues for my family. My wife and I are really trying to stay close to the spirit and make sure that we take steps that will bring our family closer to God.

      I tried to get my 14-year-old to go to the temple with me, but it didn't happen. He told me he would think about doing it next week, so I am praying.

  7. profile image60
    passingthewordposted 5 years ago

    So God said let us make man In our image, On the sixth day he created the races and he looked down and said it was good.
    Then he created Adam (Hebrew for Reddish skin) Not white.
    Why be a part of a religion that looks at you as a glitch a mistake not good enough to look like Christ know.
    The LDS church looks at you as a curse not good enough. That is not What my GOd thinks of his people. If God doesn't think like this, his church shouldn't think like that. If a church contradicts the Word of God it is not God's Church.

    1. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Passingtheword, that doesn't make any sense to me. Adam was the first man. There were no other people when God created Adam.

      I belong to the church because it is the Lords Church. It is simple really. You are wrong telling me that the LDS church looks at me as a curse. I happen to be a member of the church an would know if it thought I was cursed.

      History is just that, history. Though it is important, it does not change the fact that I found God by listening to teachers from his church.

      1. profile image60
        passingthewordposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Where do you think the races came from? i know where you believe the black race came from (Ham even though it was a curse from his father not God, But that is another thread) where did the Asians come from? do you think that over time their eyes raised or dropped, I think not. Let's read it from the Word.
        Sixth day of creation
        Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

        27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

        28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

        God made a man over the fish (fisherman) man over birds, over the cattle and he made woman at the same time.

        When did he make Adam (Reddish Skin, Man, tiller of the ground)

        Genesis 2:1  2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

        2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

        So creation is over, then God rested on the seventh day. Know lets continue reading

        7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

        8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

        You need to get this. He made Adam and Eve after He rested, which He rested on the seventh day.

        So God made Adam to til the garden, then He made Eve. Adam and Eve are very special because through their seed, Jesus would come.
        Don't let your church tell you what to believe. Read it for yourself in the TRUE WORD OF GOD the  "BIBLE".

        1. Rodric29 profile image83
          Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I THINK the races come from the conditions of the earth. I do not dispute with you about the different races No one wants to be the lineage that was cursed, but everything you say is taken out of context of the entire plan of Salvation. It does not matter what race came from where once you look at God's entire plan.

          Asians come from the same place some Whites come from Japeth, one of the three sons of Noah. This is my belief and what I think until further information about it is given.

          My beliefs are not set in stone, but the things I know are what I know. I believe way more than I know.

          I do not know anything about the races save for my personal lineage which I am not certain this is the right forum to share

          Everything else is just a belief that could change with further information.

          1. profile image60
            passingthewordposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I just gave you info from the Word of God The bible. The conditions of the World? are you saying that people adapted to their surroundings? that is why they have slanted eyes? or dark skin or a larger nose ect...... Like I shared before They were created, all of the them. read the true word. and God looked at them and he was well pleased. He was pleased back then not just in the 1960's 70's when your church allowed blacks to be equal with the whites.

            1. profile image60
              passingthewordposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              And i shared this with you, so you could know that Adam and Eve weren't the only ones here on earth.

              1. Rodric29 profile image83
                Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks for sharing. you are correct that Adam and Eve were not alone God and Jesus were with them. God himself has stated that Adam and Eve were the first of His children here on Earth.

                I trust that God does not deceive per my relationship with him these last 20 years since I have know him personally.
                I am not trying to sound arrogant about it either. My experience with God has always been one of honesty and trust, even when I could not call back my child from death. I hold that relationship above all others because it is the most real one I have besides my marriage to my Love.

            2. Rodric29 profile image83
              Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You misunderstand what I say. Race is a mortal condition, not an eternl one. We were not concerned about it before we came here. It is a test to see if you will unite even though we are different, one I think that many of us are trying to pass.

              Facial features are not something that is every been doctrine. I think that I mentioned to you before a difference between doctrine and opinion. Leaders of our church may have opinions different than other leaders but are not allowed to teach them as doctrine. Doctrine is binding on the church and each member is subject to received a special witness from God of its truth individually--aside from a prophet.

              Nothing in the journal of discourse or the ilk is doctrine, some of it is worth digesting and others of it are not good at all.

              What you claim to have given me I am familiar with and merits me not to change my beliefs regarding it. When I say change of belief, I should say view because I think that you are reading more into that than I am putting into it.

              My views, or beliefs change with information. My knowledge about God and his Church are not subject to change as I have obtained my information from Him and not a book or another person.

              1. profile image60
                passingthewordposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                But didn't Brigham Young Teach that what he taught public was doctrine, the word of God?
                Brigham Young said in the Journal of Discourses vol. 7 pp 290-291, Cain’s curse was to have a flat nose and dark skin. Blacks will be slaves until the curse is removed.
                BY Said these words are from the God. So you and the church must believe this.
                Ether BY was a false prophet or he was a raciest. And this is what he thought of you and your kids.
                It just shows that the lds doctrine is false

                1. Rodric29 profile image83
                  Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No it doesn't Passingtheword. It shows that Brigham Young was opinionated and that some of his teachings were misunderstood and only tho ones that the ones that fit with the Lords revealed word were binding on the church.

                  Did you forget the small thing about personal prayer that I keep yapping about. Brigham Young may have been a prophet, but there are 15 prophets all together that preside, just like there were more than one prophet in the Old and new testament days. We don't depend on one man to interpret God Word, we depend on God. President Monson is the chief prophet, not the only prophet as was the case with Brigham Young.

                  All that proves is that God is wise in not giving the authority to a few so that unless everyone apostatizes like in the early church, the truth will always prevail among the righteous.

                  Even prophets fall, though none of these did. The possibility is always there. I  am glad I know how to pray myself for answers just for that reason.

                2. Rodric29 profile image83
                  Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, and by the way, Brigham Young was probably a racist but not a false prophet. When did you become an expert on what Mormons have to believe? We get to talk to God just like a prophet does. We believe what we want to believe.

                  Even if Brigham thought I was a bastard child of Satan in the flesh it does not change the fact that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of God. It was never Brigham's church. We was a member of it just like me. It is Jesus's church Passingtheword.

                  You don't have to believe it. I know it. I have not been deceived about church history.  If you told me an angel appeared to you and revealed that all of it was a lie or trap to bind men in the last days then you would get my attention. It still would not subtract from my  knowledge and witness from God. I was offended by that last one which according to BY makes me a Fool. The post where you hinted at my kids being what Brigham said. I know he said a lot of things.

                  Well, now I am a flat nosed big lipped dark skinned fool. That was kinda funny.

                  I love you though Passingtheword. I can honestly say that what I know of you here I love that. You can bank on that being the truth if you don't believe the other things. Read carefully because I am not being passive aggressive either, which is what you were attempting with you posts (picture me singing those last lines in a playful way).

                  1. profile image60
                    passingthewordposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Forgive me for offending you. That is not my intention to hurt anyone. I am sure i told you before that i was brought up Mormon.  If you look at my other post you would see that i still have anger aganst the church, because i feel like they lied to me my whole life. but those are my own demons that I have to work out.
                    my comments and posts are not for mormons. they are for those that are questioning going to the faith. I am sharing what was hidden from me my whole life. I will share more later. But for know i need to get some sleep.

  8. iantoPF profile image88
    iantoPFposted 5 years ago

    I'm interested in history in general, the history of the Mormons is one I find particularly intriguing.
    In the early days of the church there was no restriction against African or those of African descent, holding the priesthood. Joseph Smith's brother, William is known to have ordained at least one man to the office of Elder. Two occurrences are said to have caused Brigham Young to impose the ban.
    An early convert to the church was a black man, William McCory. Shortly after his ordination into the priesthood he started saying that he was a prophet and was receiving direct revelations. In 1847 he formed his own group practicing plural marriage and himself marrying a number of white women.
    Walker Lewis was another prominent African American Latter-Day Saint. His son Enoch L.Lewis. married Mary Matilda Lewis, a white woman on September 18th 1846. The family moved to Utah where Enoch, as a faithful member and holding the priesthood, was eligible to take other wives.
    These were the circumstances that led Brigham to prohibit the priesthood to black people. It was the racial sentiment of the time that saw misogyny as a sin.

    1. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Your input is news to me about the gentleman that moved to Utah and is the source of the ban. It could possibly be one of many causes for the ban.

      Brigham said that he will not extend the priesthood to the Negro further unless the Lord gives him a revelation otherwise which never came to him, but did go to President Spencer W. Kimball. It is a matter of faith afterwards if Kimball was truly a prophet who could receive revelation from God. There is not proof only faith, which is what religion is about.

  9. iantoPF profile image88
    iantoPFposted 5 years ago

    Rodric; you have posed an excellent subject and I commend you for it. The reason that Black people would join and stay with the Mormons must be because they, and you in particular, find a spiritual experience that is personally fulfilling. It would be wrong and probably futile, for me to try and convince you away from your faith.
    Unfortunately for me, as someone genuinely interested in history, when I try to ask the really tough questions about the Latter-day Saint history and its doctrinal changes Mormons will shrink away from the subjects and simply not answer the hard questions.

    1. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Ask me any question and I will answer it to the best of my knowledge. I gave up on trying to live in a bubble. Either people accept me or reject me. As much happened to the Savior.

  10. feenix profile image59
    feenixposted 5 years ago

    Hey, Rodric,

    I am very proud of you, my Brother-in-Christ, and it is a great honor for me to have you as a friend.

    I know I do not have to tell you that much of society is comprised by whites who view blacks in patronizing ways, self-hating blacks, atheists who are out to ridicule and demean those of us who believe that Jesus is Lord, individuals who are profoundly ignorant of the realities of humanity, and fools who have inflated opinions of themselves.

    However, and quite fortunately, the types mentioned above account for a mere minority. The vast majority of the persons who make up society are good people who have good hearts -- and that majority consists of Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Scientologists, Christian Scientists, pagans, agnostics, atheists, as well as members of each of the races.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      How strange there is so many wars and crime in that case. Is it the atheists causing all the wars and crime? Mormons - don't they think black people are black as punishment for being on the wrong side of a war against Jesus on teh home planet?

      No one needs to demean you - you are doing a fantastic job of that yourself. I thought those of you who think Jesus is Lord were supposed to be forgiving, loving people.

      Oh well.

      In any case - is it "much of society," or a "mere minority"? You do know the two are not compatible - right?

      1. feenix profile image59
        feenixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Knowles, the primary reason why there are wars and high rates of crime is a whole lot of people have the same confrontational style that you have.

        The manner in which you responded to my comment is an ambush. And many, if not most, wars and crimes grow out of one faction ambushing another.

        Due to the fact that I was recently reminded that I already have fought in far too many wars, I am not going to get into an exchange with you. 

        Peace, brother.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Weird - you think what you said was not confrontational?

          This is why your religion causes so many conflicts, whatever your name is.

          1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image88
            Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Atheism in government always results, historically, in the slaughter of the governed.  Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc,

            But you are a brain dead drone trolling the web out of hatred and boredom, and it is beyond obvious to everyone continually subjected to your ignorant commentary.  Report me now, looser.  I'll pray for us both.

            1. feenix profile image59
              feenixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Wesman, you are one of my main men.

            2. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Why would I report you? You are a typical example of an aggressive Christian - all you have done  is prove my point that your religion causes nothing but conflict.

              wink

              1. Repairguy47 profile image60
                Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                But isn't that the response you troll for?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No. Just because I take a contrary position that doesn't mean I'm a troll. But–that is the  Christian way - to attack anything that doesn't agree with them.

                  It is not my intention to demonstrate that–these guys do it perfectly well without me.

                  1. Repairguy47 profile image60
                    Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    An atheist who spends all his time on a religion forum is trolling. I don't fault you for it, but call it what it is.

            3. Rodric29 profile image83
              Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Such hard words, but I have to agree when people seek counsel to divide when there is no reason to be divisive. Thank you for putting in your comments.

        2. Rodric29 profile image83
          Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          This is the lot of anyone who speaks for the constitutional rights of a Latter-day saints to exist. My very exisitence is an attack to many because I insist that my church is the Lord's only authorized church.

          I should expect no less I see.

    2. Rodric29 profile image83
      Rodric29posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are the kind of person that makes this country great. You can allow me to express my beliefs and be strengthened by the similarities instead of divided by the differences.

      I preach Jesus as Lord and that there is more to him than one group since there are billions of humans on this planet. No one has a monopoly on the truth. I know what has been revealed to me in personal prayer and I offer it to all that Jesus restored his church through a White man named Joseph Smith.

      I hurts no one to investigate the claim and seek spiritual confirmations as I have. No one needs to be threatened. God is God.

      Thanks for coming to a unity of faith and accepting my witness of Christ.

      And thanks all for accepting my witness that God lives or my witness that there is a higher benevolent enough to effect change in humanity. We can all come together and share in the good of our faiths.

      1. feenix profile image59
        feenixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Amen to everything you said, Rodric.

  11. Kiss andTales profile image26
    Kiss andTalesposted 5 years ago

    I know of a  black family  that  is very kind and loving some of this family live in jamica they are  rich and they are mormons, that is there choice like many who do not believe in God ,this is your choice , But what we all have in common is that we all are humans needing the same substances that keeps us all alive regardless of the skin , we are are made alike inside, we all come from a pair of humans and so we all are brothers and sisters through human genes. War has never solved a thing ,because we only are killing whats part of us. love and peace

 
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