Life on Earth; what a letdown! We don't ask to be born but here we are anyway, pushed into a world where you get bossed around for approximately 80 years before crumpling up and dying. It doesn't seem fair. Then, to add insult to injury, people keep on trying to find a point in this lousy existence; writing books, composing music, praying all the live-long day for reasons to be glad about it all. When are we all going to be allowed to face the facts of reality. Nothing is more than it seems. Pain is pain. Pleasure is pleasure and then we die.
Am I right or am I right?
(Any disagreement with this contravenes my human rights as outlined by the Geneva Convention and UN resolution and may result in a lengthy prison term or indeed sentenced to being stuck in a lift with Richard Dawkins)
Good thing is that you do have the power to make it into that which you like.
Yep , a person's reality is created by their attitude towards what they percieve outwardly.
If they are negative in minding the outward, by doing so they create more negative both within and without.
Thus their reality is consistently negative.
But if they are positive in minding the outwardly, then they create positivity within themselves and in turn affect the outwardly positively (their reality).
Thus this one is positive both in and out.
A person, as an individual human being, embodies two minds, the spiritual mind and the physical mind. One makes decision which supersedes the action of the other mind. In direct relation, the spiritual mind controls how the physical mind react and act to outward interaction. In essence, when we behave, we are doing so in accordance to what what our inner or spiritual mind is thinking, or picking up as a reaction to what is physically going on around us. In being positive or negative, the physical mind might be positive and upbeat in responding to activities around it, but if the spiritual mind perceives those activities as something disliking and develops lack-of-interest towards the activities, this message will be, unconsciously, be send to the physical mind, and the physical mind will, unknowingly, becomes negative to the activities. The question here is to understand how we, as human beings and individuals with capability to responding positively or negatively to stimulus, inside or outside, can be able to control our minds, so as to react rationally and appropriately to things happening around us.
It would be a sad thing if you think this way.
This statement seems a bit naive.
Life isn't fair or unfair. Life is life.
Lousy existence? Hmmm...your life must be pretty bad to have such a perception.
There are too many people who don't understand reality to begin with.
What's your point?
Are you right? In one perspective you could be right however, living life with the perspective you're presently using is enough to make one end one's own life.
This thread is a reaction to the lack of empathy I often see displayed by people on this forum regarding a belief in God. I am trying to be satirical about the point of view which intellectually looks down on people who have a religion.
My point is that I think life IS pretty bad for some people. They have no let up. It is suffering upon suffering. They cannot make statements like "life if what you make of it" or "you can do whatever you want to do" like we do in the comfortable west. Their need for meaning is so much clearer than ours because without a point to their lives, they would reasonably give up. That is why it is so criminal of us in the West to accuse religious people of stupidity, because in the impoverished world, belief in greater good is what keeps them alive.
Belief in the greater good is not the same as a belief in a G/god.
Maybe not, but she is right. The poor have such a deep faith. It lifts your heart when you are around people who have absolutely nothing by our standards, but they are 'rich in the spirit'.
It reminds me of something I read that the Dalai Lama said. 'Smart people make bad buddhists.' Or something to that effect. And I think that sentiment applies to any religion. I guess he meant that people who spend too much time thinking have a difficult time quieting their mind enough to embrace the simplicity of spirituality.
Actually, she's not.
This isn't true. It's rare, but not unknown. And, as for the "standards"? Oh please.
Of course smart people make bad buddhists, that's because their smart enough to try, but not stupid enough to believe.
That may be your perception.
Trying to quite the mind is a foolish task to begin with. Any idiot knows you can't clear your mind completely. And, anyone who makes the claim is a bold face liar.
I say she is right.
I assume when you say it is rare, but not unkown; you are talking about my comment of the poor having a deep faith. It has been my observation that it is not rare. And, I assume you live in the west. If you do, you are better off than 90 percent of the rest of the world. Your 'oh please' lacks a touch of compassion.
No sh*t Sherlock. I wasn't attempting to post your perception. Come on. Why did you bother to comment?
It could also be argued that anyone who attempts to speak for what goes on in the mind of another is either a bald faced liar, delusional; or too egotistical to understand the difference.
Yeah, I got that. So, I guess you're both wrong then. Good to know.
It wasn't your comment. It was the comment in which you agreed with. But, in the end, yes.
Then, I would say you need new people to hang around.
Lack of compassion? Is that what you are perceiving from my post? I certainly hope not. Yes, I live in America, so what. I cannot help where I was born. And, if you think I don't have any clue about the rest of the world, then you've grossly mistaken in that line of thought.
To show others your irrationality. Why else?
You could argue it, but then again you would only make a fool out of yourself, if the person isn't any of those. Which is more possible, than you being right.
So, you are too egotistical to understand the difference. Got it.
Cags are you one of the 95% of Americans who have never left America? Have you ever met or known anyone from a non-American culture or religion? No I don't mean all those people who live in your country who tack the word "-American" onto the nationality of their great great grandad.
Izzyboo is bang on in her assertion that the world is full of I impoverished people who's faith in their God is what gives them hope and a reason to keep going. Yet you in your wealth of cable TV, pickup truck, and pizza delivery culture, would seek to elevate yourself to a position of superiority and take away that which some people need to keep going?
Awww - how hard done by are you? Taking away what keeps them from overthrowing their masters more like.
Show me one that can eat this "faith" to prevent themselves from dying of starvation.
Christianity - keeping the masses in their place for 2,000 years.
So what's their excuse in the Middle East?
Materialism is what drives us now, not secularism. And it also numbs our capacity for empathy.
If we all went to war and lost our homes and livelihoods tommorrow, we'd all be back praying for something better in no time.
Speak for yourself.
Sorry that is the reason you believe in majik, but it is nonsense.
Sorry you are apparently incapable of empathy as well, because using some poor Afghan woman as your excuse for believing garbage and not doing anything about it is not convincing me of anything other than you really, really need to defend your beliefs and attack those of us who can reason.
No attacking on my part. I admire people with religion. I recognise it's difference from culture or fanaticism. Most people in the world have religion. I'm siding with most people.
Mark I've learned that you are simply not worth engaging in conversation with; you never contribute anything positive to this forum, you never post any pearls or wisdom, and you have little concept of civil debate.
Que another "that's why your religion causes wars" cliche.
I like this idea. My father always said to never trust an intellectual. They're the most immoral apparently.
There you go. That is what you really wanted to say. Guess your father didn't get to go to school either huh? Intellectuals are immoral?
No wonder your deep spiritual understanding and peace causes so many fights huh?
When you say school, do you mean university? My father didn't go to university no. Should he feel bad about that?
I hadn't noticed anyone with a deep spiritual understanding getting into fights...no.
He apparently does feel bad about it if he taught you that intellectuals are not to be trusted and immoral. Was he very religious?
My dad is one of the most intelligent men I know, but doesn't have the academic prestige associated with university. Who cares. Is he a good person? Yes he is.
IS he very religious? Yes, I suppose he is.
His views about intellectuals, that is to say people who assert some kind of intellectual authority over other people without the responsibility of a politician or a cleric, say, that they are potentially dangerous. Think of those geniuses who drew up the Third Right, for example, or the designers of the Atom bomb.
You think politicians and clerics are responsible and not dangerous? Crikey - your understanding is even more damaged than I thought. No wonder you are so confused.
Both your examples were politicians - in one case pure politics and religion, the other politics taking advantage of duped scientists.
Are you aware that you are being rude? It is your understanding that is proving limited here.
I stated that politicians and clerics have both authority and responsibility. Academics should be made more responsible for their actions/glorified statements.
No, that is not what you said. This is what you said:
You appear to lack understanding of reality in some way. How is that being rude?
I understand you perfectly.
If you think that treating people as if they have limited understanding is fine, then you are just ill-mannered.
If a christian thinks or believes the bible is the only source of all spiritual being and things, then there is your source of your Problem
Is the bible not the core belief system source of your life?
Does god tell you stuff directly into your head?
I love the way you secularists try to gang up on people. I don't think there's space on this forum to explain to you all the things your parents failed to tell you.
A greater good does not have to be supernatural. It can be a greater good on this earth on our life.
What makes you think that the ONLY thing that can give people hope is religion?
It's easy for us to talk about looking around ourselves to find the greater good here on earth. Try telling that to a woman married into the Taliban, surrounded by relentless desertland in the heart of Afghanistan. Such choices are a privilaged commodity of the West.
What makes a persons life beautiful is the ability to transcend the physical, whatever their lives may be like: spiritual self-sufficiency is the only real freedom anyone can hope for.
And how does mocking your irrational, self righteousness affect this person?
Surely understanding that there is no majikal afterlife and changing her situation would be a better option?
There you see, you're suggesting that it's stupidity which oppresses her.
Religion is only a small part of Afghan culture. Being veiled from head to foot is cultural. Multiple wives is cultural as is the food they eat. It comes from an oppressive yet desolate geographical location and climate, and a legacy of being at war for hundreds of years.
I'm saying that the resource to allow a part of yourself to be free from all that is strength not a weakness.
No. It is a weakness that prevents you from doing something about it.
Not sure what that has to do with your irrational beliefs though. Care to explain?
Because I can cut myself off from pain and suffering as well as the next person and I don't need to believe in majik to do it.
Is there a reason why you're not spelling magic properly?
Yes. To make a point.
Care to answer my question?
Not sure why you respect people for believing nonsense with no basis in fact. Could it be because you believe in nonsense with no basis in fact?
I take it you also do not respect people that do not believe in nonsense?
You can think what you like about what I might believe and why.
I'm quite happy for other people to think what they like. I don't fel the need to know that people respect me or not.
People don't just decide to believe in something. They just do. Real suffering does that to people.
You are basically saying what I said at the beginning of this post: There is no point to anything. Is there much more to say after that?
But you didn't really say that - did you? You are defending your irrational belief in majik and underhandedly suggesting that to believe garbage is better than accepting reality because reality sucks.
And you don't even see the contradiction in saying people don't just decide to believe in something and then go onto say they do because of suffering.
I understand believing as you do is the easy answer.
Reality is that there is no point to anything outside of what we make of it. If I make a point of it - it has a point. I don't need to imagine a sky fairy rewarding me for not changing my circumstances and having a hard life.
Why not accept reality and make your own point?
In any case - I asked you questions that you studiously avoid answering. Why is that?
Well you're right that it isn't only suffering that causes people to think in spiritual terms. I have a very happy life, albeit tainted by all the stresses and pressures of modern materialism and ofcourse, my tendency towards sin. But I am very struck by the intellectual gravitas of people with deep, religious faith, whatever their religion may be.
You talk about making your own life have a POINT. That's all very well if life is good and you are free and healthy. What would you tell a person who had nothing? What would you say was the point of suffering?
What kind of magic are you talking about? None of the major religions believe in magic either. Magic is the explanation of something where God isn't the explanation.
I don't think life is bad. I think life is wonderful.
No, God does not equal Majik, or indeed magic. Unless you're pagan.
God is not tricks and games by a malevolent authority. It isn't Hollywood on a grand scale, though I can see how it is becoming increasing difficult to distinguish between life and fiction in this world of technology.
No one can argue for of against the existence of God because it is a truth that can only confirm itself within the heart of an individual.
My argument isn't to PROVE there is a God. No one can do that. I am merely writing about the status of religion. I say that people naturally turn to God as one spirit to another. Are you saying that such behaviour is unnatural and must therefore be discouraged as such?
No, you are wrong. Magic is a means of twisting nature to suit your desires. Belief in God gives you no such assurance. It concerns me that mega-churches in the US are so profitable. That would be a sure sign to me that God was out of their equation.
Suffering does give people a perspective that you don't have when you are well fed, warm and safe. Who knows why. Like you say, it can't be debated if by debating it you are hoping for an confirmable answer at the end of it. Think what you like. I would only suggest you avoid the presumption that people are stupid because they believe in something you don't ..or can't.
You're shocked by my lack of understanding? And yet we have been acquainted for such a short time! Your powers of intuition must be immense! I couldn't possibly make such a broad statement about someone in so short a time. Unless, of course, they were a full grown adult who still didn't know how to spell 'magic.' I would be very suspicious about their education.
Yes - shocked. My powers are immense. I can divine intent and understanding very quickly.
I know how to spell majik. It is just another word for god.
Still don't understand how using a poor Afghan woman as an example has anything whatsoever to do with your irrational belief in majik. Even if you spell it wrong.
Care to elaborate?
My only reason for using the Afghan woman as an example was to show how spiritual strength enables people to endure incredible things. I admire that and I also feel encouraged by their strength. Religion is the one thing that allows that woman something of her own.
I would accept that particular religion is not going to be the thing that frees her from the homo-centric culture she inhabits. Where they Christian, for example, life would be dramatically different for her. But without anything else at all, it's difficult to imagine why she would even want to be alive.
So - nothing at all to do with your irrational beliefs? I see you have not responded to the point I made that this belief actually holds her back either.
There is no such thing as spiritual strength. I do think it is fantastic that you have such a wonderful understanding and grasp of Afghan culture and spirituality though. How many decades did you live there?
I guess you can predict alternate futures as well seeing as you know it is only believing in majik that gives this poor woman the strength not to bother changing her situation.
Depends entirely on what type of Christian! If you compare Islam to Christianity directly, Islam actually grants women more rights than Christianity. However, when it's combined with pre-Islamic traditions and modern interpretations of Islam specifically promoted as a means of social control, you get some really f***ed up shit.
The same happens in Christian societies that haven't had some sort of women's liberation movement. In Ethiopia, for example, harmful practices such as FGM, child marriages, and bide kidnapping occur at equal rates among the Muslim, Christian, and animist communities. Some of the fundamentalist Christian sects in the US are little better (FLDS, anyone?).
Even mainstream fundamentalist groups in the US have fallen into the social control trap. Political leaders pushed the culture wars in the US because they knew issues like abortion and gay marriage could be used to get people to vote against their self-interests. As recently as the 1970's, for example, evangelical groups did not believe that life begins at conception. That is a purely modern interpretation spread as a way to get votes for socially conservative politicians.
I understand religious culture because I have a religious culture. You clearly have no culture, and you're pissed off that other people do.
What is there to understand? You don't believe there is a God. I think that's narrow minded. You think I'm irrational and stupid. Is there some other point I'm missing?
My new, favorite OP!!!
I have said it before, my fellow lab rats! We must unite!
It's the only theory that makes sense.
Logic says we are not the highest power in the universe, therefore there is a higher power than us.
Therefore there is a higher power. And he treats us like crap. Therefore we must be lab rats in a science experiment.
We need to unite and find a way out.
Yes we do.
Hmmm. Does life have a purpose outside of what humans make it? I'm dubious.
If you read the bible or the koran, then you would learn that G/god gives people purpose.
I find it ironic that those who think that a purpose is something to be granted or given away? And, not created by the individual.
You are right. Purpose is something we, as individuals, have to create for ourselves. Just like success, you or I cannot achieve success if we did not work toward that accomplishment. God intercedes to create a smooth path to achieving success, if He sees that we have the interest to becoming successful in life. Just an employment, you cannot get that dream job if you did not go out there and struggle to get it, praying and believing in God help to see that you are successful in securing the job of your dream.
The Purpose of Life is for you and I to live and go through a form of metaphorical growth. You were born, you grew up, passing through all those stages in human lives, and then reach 60 years old or 90 years old, and then you look forward to dying. All these are metamorphosis in life. Purpose and Life goes pari pasu, meaning that, life and purpose goes side-by-side. You cannot wake up in the morning and go outside to the street without having a purpose of doing so. You are living today, and you are posting on this hub thread today because you have a purpose for doing that. In essence, we, as human beings, create purpose that help us to have a define life.
first off, life is pretty damn awesome but you can always kill yourself and no one can stop you so we do have that choice. secondly, what you do with your life is what makes it worth living. praying to some god to guide you is kind of absurd but using your own ideas can make life incredible.we don't have a purpose and if people would stop believing that, they would make their own reasons for living and strive to make it better but instead many wait for their god to "show" them and it's silly and baseless.
Are you telling me you know what I'm thinking and what I truly mean, even if I don't say so?
I thought life was wonderful when the air was filled with testosterone, estrogen, pheromones etc and our imagination was unrestrained.
And then One day I looked around discovered I had gotten old.
Life is and has been wonderful- that is why you have lived so far to become old. Testosterone, estrogen, et cetera, that you mentioned are just add-on that we use to live life. The air is always fill with freshness except you find yourself living within area where the air is impure. Imagination is abstract, which is something we live life with. Imagination is restrained if you have issues and things that worry your peace. Your imagination only wanders when there are things that disrupt you mind and your ability to enjoy life of peace and tranquility.
The life of human is fully of struggle, stress and busy. One of the major reason is money. Everyone is busy to find all the luxury things in his/her life and this is only the cause of all these three things. Also the invention could be the second reason. In the past, people relaxed, the went to forest and collect foods and made the shelter with wood and only think about the three times food. Now our thinking is broad, we want multiple things at one time.
What you mentioned are one side of life. Life is much larger than that. There are people who right now constantly go through struggle, stress and busy in life; at the same time, there are people who barely experiencing these circumstances. As for money, it is a supporting pillar, I would say, for living. Without money, noone will have a life. Without money, it will not be possible for you or anyone else to feed, cloth and shelter themselves. I think that invention and technological advancement make life a little bit easier for everyone; though, it has its disadvantages. I would not be sharing opinion on this thread with you if not for invention- of the internet, www.
If you sincerely believe that you'll go to heaven or be reincarnated into a better life, you're much less likely to try to do anything to improve your current life. If you believe that you must fight those infidels from that other religion, you're much less likely to notice that you have more in common with the infidels than with the kings, dictators, or plutocrats who run your respective countries.
There's a reason that most of the most brutal and oppressive regimes the world has ever seen have had a deeply religious populace. It's not because the people are "rich in spirit" or need some kind of hope to keep going in times of unimaginable hardship, it's because religion is one of the most effective forms of mind control ever devised. Why do you think the Saudi regime pours so much money into spreading the most extreme fundamentalist branch of Islam, or the culture wars pick up steam in the US every election season?
lizzieBoo, do I detect humour here in your Thread? Hope so. Life is to rich and wide ranging to hang in on depression and gut-seriousness.
Laugh and cry 'til it aches, Love. You'll get there in one piece!
Interesting enough, LizzieBoo,
I read through the dialogue between you and Mr Knowles, and have come to the same determination: The traversed intellect can only scorn what they once loved -and by loved AM suggesting a thorough consummation, be it by doctrine, by in~doctrine, logic or an attempt at logic.
To have quested here and there, only to return to the same place, after so much time, can only leave one in dire straits. The only logical solution is abandonment and stagnation -and by stagnation AM suggesting a continuous 'loop' of memories of those travels. After the primary images fade, what remains below the surface are sedimentary sentiments (forgive the s'es). Scorching sun, howling wind, torrential rains (all metaphoric) drain the very Life from the traveler.
And having lost their 'luggage', makes matters even worse. Now they have nothing to wear and become reluctant naturists. Acceptance of the status quo (the "it is what it is" concept) turns to bitterness -more importantly guilt- for having gotten stuck in the airport to begin with; to having traveled these avenues.
The only second logical thing to do is 'try to save the others' who have or might also get stuck. Helplessness is worse than death.
And everyone knows a naked, exhausted, weathered and traveled post-evangelist is even worse than being helpless.
James, I completely agree.
How nice to hear from you! I hope you're well.
See I've never conversed with this guy before and yet the stuff he's coming out with is seriously jaded. He's not listening at all is he. He was straight in with the insults.
That is just his way of explaining the airport experience.
After nearly 3 years and some very good and very bad conversations, I have concluded he is more of an evangelist than Rod Parsley -less the profuse sweat of course. lol.
PS, Yes, all is well! Been busy with web work and life-coaching workshops.
How are things `cross the pond?
Still - the scorned/misunderstood/desperate for attention/taste/dimension/experience/needtobe/neverwillbe/havetoexperiencethepower/EGO
What a shame. I can show you in 11 days, not 21.
Pity you come across as so sad you need to support Lizzieboo's god innit. Oh well - at least you dun expressed your theism again.
This is why your religion causes so much ill will. Ernest agrees.
So now you finally admit it, you still believe in life-after and now it seems you can confirm communication with the aft-world?! hehe.
PS, how are things big Guy? Miss Me?
Earnest agreed with everything with which Mark was saying. The fact that you turn "agrees" as an insinuation of the "afterlife" or "life after", is just ridiculous.
No -no, Ray. Ridiculous is you crashing a tea party you weren't invited to. Tsk, tsk.
My invitation is automatic with membership with regards to the forums. So, tsk-tsk you not knowing any better.
Oh James! if I should come across such "a naked, exhausted, weathered and traveled post-evangelist," I would not worry that he was "helpless." At least he could be manipulated!
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