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Self-hypnosis via the Holy Spirit.

  1. 0
    Chasukposted 4 years ago

    Why is this type of delusion seen as necessary by so many Christians?

    1. aguasilver profile image86
      aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      For a rational thinking person that is a loaded topic to post.

      There are two alternatives:

      1. The Holy Spirit does not exist and billions of folk self hypnotise in a purely random manner, normally at times associated with a deep need for them or others.

      2. The Holy Spirit does exist and you are seeking to persuade yourself that your denial of the Holy Spirits existence is not deception by the enemy.

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        but how do we know when it is the Holy Spirit and when it is a lieing spirit?

        there are instances of both in scripture. And we are told to look out for the lieing one!  how do we know for sure?

        1. By His Way profile image60
          By His Wayposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Test it against scripture. What kind of "fruit" does it produce..

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            jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yup, just slap the spirit with the scripture, if it gives an apple it is holy and if it gives lemon it is the lying one!

            1. By His Way profile image60
              By His Wayposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Are you mocking me, Mr? Jomine...    *smile*

          2. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            AH yes ...  but when that spirit is leading us as to how to interpret these scriptures ..?..  this can be a self defeating test cause it is written that when this beast (Rev 13) comes onto the sene it will fool even the elect if possible.
              SOooo  when we have been fooled we won't know it has happened.

            1. janesix profile image60
              janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So god likes to play mind games?

              1. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I don't know. I'm just saying?  ...  ??
                Trying to make sense out of the WHOLE thing.
                I'm not sure what in this life we can trust cause I think that nothing is as it seems to be.

                   Have you ever heard that country song, "I'd lie for your love, I'm a doctor I'm a lawyer. ... etc. etc."

              2. By His Way profile image60
                By His Wayposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No.  People do - either ignorantly (unknowingly) or proudly.

                1. janesix profile image60
                  janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh really? If god isnt playing mind games why doesnt he just come out and prove his existence?

                  1. aguasilver profile image86
                    aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Circular argument....

                    Seems that God in His infinite wisdom decided that when we come to have faith in Him, He will reveal the proof, I know that's a bummer, but it's the way it is.

                    Likewise the Army don't train folk who won't sign up and accept the authority over them.

                  2. By His Way profile image60
                    By His Wayposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    As crazy as this may sound to you, my belief is that we could not physically take actually seeing God right now. He is not human. He is not from our world. We can not try to understand something completely that isn't even of the material we are from. We try to humanize everything to try and understand it because we are human. We can't humanize him. We can't understand completely everythign that He is. There's no way. While here on earth, we do not have the ability to withstand seeing God. I don't believe science and God are two separate things. Who's to say that what He created in a day (His day) didn't take 1,000 years in our time? His time is not our time. I see God in creation more than in anything else. I see evidence of His existance in the things around me and what I feel. These are the things He has given us, for the moment, to prove himself. Again, I recognize where you stand. This is just my opinion.

            2. By His Way profile image60
              By His Wayposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Confusion is not of God.     I'm pretty strong in my faith (this belief) but I'm not one to support what we now have in text is what was originally inspired and written. All I can say is for me...I have a peace like no other on certain things. The bible is not the end all. It's a guide. The Holy Spirit fills in or confirms, and there is no confusion with it. (within yourself) Pray about it.

            3. By His Way profile image60
              By His Wayposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Also, Pharisees were considered "elite", but they were nowhere near what they should have been. I don't put myself on a pedastool and I don't believe easily. I'm in constant daily struggles. I'm not worried about being fooled.

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        Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'm merely leveling the playing field.

        Why should the nonbeliever concede that the Holy Spirit might exist, when the believer won't concede that the Holy Spirit might not?

        I've made concessions literally thousands of times (on and off HubPages), explicitly and implicitly. I'm weary of being the only party in nonbeliever-believer dialogues willing to make concessions.

        1. aguasilver profile image86
          aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe because the believer has experienced the Holy Spirit, as you admit you have when you had faith?

          So when one has experienced that, one cannot deny it, even you do not deny it, you simply say YOU were wrong, so in effect you already conceded that the Holy Spirit might exist.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Still shakin' the dust off I see. lol

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            Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "In effect?"

            I am not "in effect" conceding that the Holy Spirit might exist, I am baldly and explicitly stating it.

            Man's capacity for self-delusion is limitless, Aguasilver, and this is proven no more eloquently than by the ferocity of denial which kicks in when one's most treasured beliefs are threatened.

            I get it, Aguasilver. Sometimes, honesty is hard. Admitting that the Holy Spirit might not exist is like admitting that a chink exists in the armor that you pretend is impregnable.

        2. Chris Neal profile image82
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If you're truly the only part in your discussions to make concessions then you've been talking to the wrong parties.

          I haven't seen these discussions, but if you truly don't believe then you shouldn't act as if you do. The trick for both sides is to be true to their belief without being rude to the other side (except of course for those who seem to actually believe that they should be rude. In that case, that's one belief they should go against.)

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      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Let's be realistic. You ask why it is necessary by so many. This implies that a high percentage of Christians experience self hypnosis. How many is it?

      Pentecostals represent about 2% of Christianity, but they are some of the most referenced when raising an eyebrow at the practices of Christianity.

      From what I've gathered Catholics, most mainstream Protestants, the cults (Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, etc.) don't buy into being possessed with the Holy Spirit. I gather they may feel the presence; but that is merely a feeling. They don't speak in tongues or writhe around on the floor. They simply attempt to live as they understand they are commanded by scripture.

      So, the more honest question would have been; why do some sects, primarily Pentecostals, need it?

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        Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There are doctrinal and semantic differences, but most Christians believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, including Catholics and Mormons. They don't necessary believe that the gifts of the Spirit (tongues, prophecy, etc.) have modern applicability.

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          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So, please explain how this equates to self hypnosis. I see it more as a difference of opinion.

          Example. Let's say I have heartburn. I just ate spaghetti. You are sure it's from the tomatoes in the sauce. I think it's from red dye number five. I'm sure it's an ingredient, but you don't see it listed as an ingredient on the jar.

          You think I'm delusional. I think you don't understand how ingredients are chosen to be listed. I've still got heartburn. We disagree as to why.

          That, to me, is similar. They aren't'self hypnotized'. They attribute a feeling to something you disagree with.

          1. 0
            Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            My apologies, but I'm going to have to answer your question in stages.

            First, your analogy doesn't work. It would work if I thought your heartburn was caused by tomatoes in the sauce, and you thought that it was caused by freeze-dried unicorn poop (or anything of disputed existence), added to the the sauce by disgruntled factory workers. We both accept that tomatoes and red dye number five exist, but only you accept that freeze-dried unicorn poop exists.

            Second, assuming that we know that you are experiencing heartburn and not a heart attack (or something else with similar symptoms), then our dispute concerning the cause of this heartburn is not a question of opinion, but a question of fact. Our respective opinions are irrelevant.

            Last, you artificially limit the number of causes to two, when the actual number of causes could be much higher.

            A Christian experiences X, and attributes it to the Holy Spirit, which may or may not exist. I attribute it to delusion. Of course, the cause might be neither of those things. However, _something_ caused that feeling. The Christian claims one factual cause; I claim another.

            For most Christians, the existence of the Holy Spirit is integral to their faith. For a minority, it isn't. Why for some, and not for others?

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              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not questioning the use of, and disagreement over, the word Holy Spirit as much as I'm scratching my head on the self hypnosis claim. It's an odd term to use when talking about Christians other than the odd and small minority that insists on speaking in tongues and claim people are possessed by evil spirits. I don't understand why you think the majority are self hypnotized.

              But, my previous post was simply an example. I wasn't attempting to limit anything. The point was that many claim to occasionally feel something and there is a disagreement over what causes that feeling.

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                Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'm puzzled why you ask about speaking-in-tongues, when I didn't mention it.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Because that would be an example of self hypnosis. I don't consider your average Christian walking around in a hypnotic state. Nor do I think your standard Sunday worship session involves self hypnosis. Those are basically club meetings, I would think.

                  1. 0
                    Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    This forum's subject is, "Self-hypnosis via the Holy Spirit."

                    The forum's first message is, "Why is this type of delusion seen as necessary by so many Christians?" This message was intended to clarify the forum's subject.

                    Notice that I refer to hypnosis as a "type of delusion."

                    I didn't mean to imply what you have apparently inferred, namely, that "your average Christian [is] walking around in a hypnotic state."

                    Perhaps this forum's subject should have been, "The delusion of the Holy Spirit," and it's first message "Why do Christians pretend that it exists?"

    3. Titen-Sxull profile image94
      Titen-Sxullposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      When I was a Christian I attended a Pentecostal church. Basically in the book of Acts it describes an event known as Pentecost wherein the people in the church were praying and were supposedly suddenly filled with the holy spirit, they began speaking in tongues.

      Jesus, in the Gospels, promises his disciples that after he's dead the Holy Spirit will come to them in his stead.

      So some sects actually believe that you should be saved, and then baptized by water and then baptized by the "fire" of the Holy Spirit.

      1. Civil War Bob profile image60
        Civil War Bobposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Titen, please let me 'fine tune' your descriptions.  The Pentecost event in Acts 2 also shows Galilean Jews spontaneously speaking in known languages they never studied out in a public meeting...a phenomenon that perplexed the crowd.  Peter explained that this fulfilled a specific prophecy in the OT book of Joel to show that, because Jesus was at that time dead AND resurrected, God sent His Spirit as promised and this multilingual speech that was actually understood was designed to validate the message that Jesus was the Messiah.  The result: 3,000 of the crowd (no total number of it was recorded) believed the message, the rest did not at that time.  A further result was that converted folks continued to gather and have their number increased by God day to day as the last verses in the chapter point out.

    4. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Well, I would say that, though many people equate what you're saying to the extreme doings of Pentecostals, I would argue that spending time in prayer is the same. Meditating/praying on that "feeling" and "God's Word" often enough is about par with hypnosis. It's basically what keeps most Christians going, I'd wager. At least the devout ones. It's how bright people continue to believe some spacy things as truth, and convince themselves that certain things are "right." I, along with others I knew, was dissuaded from only believing in God "with the mind," which is easy for those who aren't devout, because they don't think much about why they believe what they believe further than what it is at "face value." Spending a lot of time in prayer and studying the word often had me feeling as though the HS was talking to me, and opening my mind to the "truth," and the more I opened my "heart" to "God," the more I felt Him, and saw Him in everything. Guess what happens when you stop praying and reading?? You "let the devil in." It seems that Free Thought is equated with the Devil. Go figure.

    5. 0
      Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Considering one's "religious experience" is highly dependent on the beliefs the person had before, or grew up with in society, and the human mind has been shown to be very capable of hallucinations in a variety of circumstances, there is no reason to believe the experience, while real, is divine in origin.

      1. Chris Neal profile image82
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I would have to disagree with that considering my own experiences. I was too young of a Christian and had no background in the religion or the Book but things fell into place.

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          Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If you were born into an industrialized country, and some non-industrialized, you were aware of Christianity.

          1. Chris Neal profile image82
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Big deal. I'm aware of being President of the United States. The chances of my becoming President are as great and probable as of my becoming a Christian (in fact, more so) but were I to suddenly find myself in the halls of power, even if we're just talking mayor of Indianapolis!, I would have no background and be unprepared.

            Yeah, I'm aware of it. But it's not the same as being prepared or having a background.

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              Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Geographical location is the best predictor of religiosity.  Since you grew up in America, you grew up in a culture infected with religious language and ideas (a disaster of "biblical proportions").  People all around you being Christian (75% openly claim to be so). 

              Your culture predisposes you, and me, and all of us to see Christianity as a real possibility, and other religions as not, such as Hinduism or Buddhism.

              1. aguasilver profile image86
                aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                But I live in SE Asia, amongst Chinese, Tamil Indians, Thai's and Malaysians, who are geographically inclined towards Buddhism, Hindi, Islam and Taoist religions, yet we have a strong and vibrant Christian community made up of all those peoples, who have chosen to follow Christ because they saw that He is good.

                They have left those religions, seeing that Christ was more in line with what they believed.

                So the argument is not strictly true, though I will agree that where folk are able to explore Christ, they will change religion from birth religions to following Christ, even at pain of death for doing so.

                But equally nobody is born a Christian, Mum and Dad may stick it on their children's documents, and take them to church with them, but the ONLY way to become a Christian is by individual confession of faith, no nameplate will suffice.

                1. 0
                  Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Geographical location is not the ONLY predicator.  I never claimed that.  It's simply that way for most people.

                  Christianity is also WORLDWIDE.  The U.S. has Buddhists, Muslims, and Hindus, even in a Christianized culture.  Not everyone is going to go with the majority.

                  It makes you more independent if you grew up in a culture that wasn't predisposed to Christianity, but that doesn't make Christianity true.  It just means your decision was based on other factors.

              2. Chris Neal profile image82
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                A very logical bit of reasoning.

                Facile and completely dismissive of my actual history, but logical sounding.

                Takes nothing into account about my state of mind, but logical sounding.

                Why aren't you Christian, if it's simply that pre-programmed?

                1. 0
                  Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I broke away from my programming.  There's a few of us who are capable tongue.

                  But if you would like, feel free to give me an argument for Christianity.  I'd be happy to discuss the merits.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image82
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You've already shown that you've made up your mind. That's the problem. Because you have already assumed you know my situation and history and judged according to your preconceived notions.

                    One of the merits of Christianity for me has been to show me that I need to walk in another man's shoes and not judge him. And that's a good thing, because, no offense, but I used to be you. Or at least the you who has talked to me so far.

    6. Civil War Bob profile image60
      Civil War Bobposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Chasuk, the "delusion" of the Holy Spirit indwelling believers is part and parcel of the Christian belief system.  My reply to Titen-Sxull shows, I think, the answer to your "why" question.  I would say you don't have to concede His existence from your world life view; which I would see as pretty much equivalent to that of the Sadducees of the first century, based on some of your writings/threads. 
      In this case, both sides need to state their cases, realizing it's a loggerheads circumstance much as the Pentecost event was...some will buy it, some will not.  Enjoy your day and thanks for asking the question!

      1. 0
        Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Agreed. And thanks. :-)

    7. celafoe profile image69
      celafoeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The Holy Spirit Of GOD.    Does not participate in hypnosis of any kind .  Hypnosis is witchcraft and one may be helped by a holy spirit but not the Holy Spirit of God.   We are warned to avoid witchcraft which has crept into and is practiced in many if not most mainline churches and many others

      1. 0
        Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This is why there should be a definite separation of Church and State.

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        AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus H. Christ!  Has the entire f#$king world lost its collective f#$king mind?

        1. aguasilver profile image86
          aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, they have believed that witchcraft is not real, that the enemy does not exist, and deprived themselves of the spiritual perception required to understand these things.

          Wake up world.... the enemy is at YOUR gates.

          1. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
            EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You obviously don't know the definition of witchcraft either.

            1. aguasilver profile image86
              aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Manipulation, deception and intimidation, where those three are present, so is witchcraft.

              1. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
                EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Witchcraft is defined as invoking a spirit, when you invoke a spirit you allow it into you, much like the holy spirit is suppose to do.

                1. aguasilver profile image86
                  aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well aware of that, like I said on your hub, it depends which side the spirit you are allowing authority comes from.

                  I have been on both teams, I am well 'familiar' with the enemies spiritual entities, and delighted that the Holy Spirit drives the enemy out of us, and has all power and authority.

                  Why muck around with lowlife spiritual entities when the Holy Spirit has authority over ALL other forces?

                  1. janesix profile image60
                    janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    How can you tell the difference? How do you really know its the holy spirit?

                  2. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
                    EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I understand what your getting at, and I did let your comment stand and such because I understand where your coming from. The sound of your previous post however made it sound like you were considering witchcraft to be something other than what it was. My apologies if that's not how you meant it. I didn't get notified of your comment until after I had checked the forums.

        2. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No my friend, it's just apparently full of people who don't know the definitions of the words that they like to throw around.

      3. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
        EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hypnosis is not witchcraft and your self deluded if you don't know the difference between witchcraft and hypnosis. Claiming to be filled with a spirit is witchcraft, as it is invoking a spirit.

      4. 0
        Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hypnosis is, for the most part, self-indulgent twaddle, a "trick" performed by our priests of science (if you believe that psychology is a science) that only works if you believe in it. Witchcraft is, for those who practice it, also self-indulgent twaddle, which is its only connection to hypnosis.

        1. A Thousand Words profile image80
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey now, don't go dissing psychology. It's helped me in that how I was coming to understand people and myself through observation lined up harmoniously with what I'd begun to learn in my psychology classes and I could give those ideas and conclusions a name, and there are just too many fields that are discovering and helping with different things, from us finding potentially higher states of consciousness in animals, to understanding why certain people are capable of being serial killers. I am majoring in it, and will steer clear or pseudo or parapsychology, and others of that nature. But psychology is an important science, friend. There are hypotheses, there conclusions drawn from experimentation, observation, and the like. When you get into the cognitive side and neuropsychology, it's status as a science especially shouldn't be questioned.

          Sorry, I got a little defensive.

          1. 0
            Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I wasn't dissing psychology so much as remembering a few lectures from my psychology and sociology professors. They would stage debates occasionally, and the subject of debate was often whether psychology could legitimately be considered a science. :-)

    8. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
      EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      They like to think themselves possessed and make a show of it. They think it brings them closer to god to do such things.

      1. rdcast profile image77
        rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Confused, are any of you familiar with the spiritual world?

        1. janesix profile image60
          janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          There is no spiritual world.

          1. rdcast profile image77
            rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            and there's no butterflies in hell

            1. janesix profile image60
              janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And there is no hell

              1. rdcast profile image77
                rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                and you don't fit the butterfly profile

                1. janesix profile image60
                  janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I dont fit any profile

                  1. rdcast profile image77
                    rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    oh yes you do

        2. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
          EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Probably more so than you are.

          1. rdcast profile image77
            rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You might be surprised.

            But I can tell, you assume much, but know very little.

            1. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
              EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You'd be surprised at what I know. Of course, you, much like some others who I will refrain from naming, tend to assume more than actually study.

              1. rdcast profile image77
                rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Perhaps, yet you'rer the one who seriously considers witchcraft.

                1. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
                  EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  And your the one who believes in an all powerful, indestructible super-being.

                  1. rdcast profile image77
                    rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    God Almighty you mean. Don't be so ignorant you find yourself in hell fire, as I may very well be...

    9. Theophanes profile image95
      Theophanesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      All people need to feel loved. This communing with God is just an extension of that. It's how they can bolster that euphoric feeling that someone cares about them, loves them, needs them in some way and that somehow they're important to someone. At times I find this a sad reality. I love the people in my life dearly and am clear in the knowledge they love me back so there's no need to start talking to anything in my head.

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        AKA Winstonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I am not certain how valid this notion to be.  I would accept that there is strong motivation to feel accepted and part of a group.  Love, on the other hand, is too squishy of word to have any real meaning.

        In fact, the best definition I ever read came from an Episcapal priest who wrote, "Love is a decision and a commitment." 

        If there is a god, he has already made the decision and commitment to love his creations, therefore no action of his creations would change that decision or commitment.  There would be nothing to "feel".

        1. Theophanes profile image95
          Theophanesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          OK, fair 'nuff, you want a better definition. With love I mean a feeling of being needed, wanted, and important to someone, unconditionally, no matter how crappy of a person you think you are. "Jesus loves you." "God has a plan for you"

    10. Chris Neal profile image82
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What does that even mean?

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        Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, but the answer to that question has been shaped by succeeding questions, which would be difficult to reconstruct here.

        If you truly want to know the answer to your question, you will need to follow the thread.

    11. Felixedet2000 profile image62
      Felixedet2000posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      to the original topic, there is nothing like self hypnosis in a real Christian setting except of course you are refering to the ranks of infiltration by satanic agents in other to mock the power behind the world's largest and best religion.
      We don't self hypnotized, rather we allow the spirit of God to take control when we are in right standing with God, i can help anyone who is ignorant about this.coming online to gaffe about a religion one does not know much about is sensational in every respect, this topic is quite cheap.
      Christians perpetually are under attack in hubpages and i am beginning to wonder if it is not a conspiracy....i am still watching, keeping my antennae intact, my religion is not to be mock by any satanist, i won't fold my arms and watch unbelievers desecrate the name of God and his only begotten son. enough of this cheap mocking.

      1. 0
        Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I would definitely keep those antennae intact.

  2. rdcast profile image77
    rdcastposted 4 years ago

    Such is the blindness of the unbeliever. Do you know Jesus Christ's explanation concerning His Holy Spirit?

    You inhale, filling your lungs with an invisible sustenance that you would fight tooth and nail to obtain. But you lack spiritual lungs, for you have yet been born-again. Then, God's sustaining breath of life, His Holy Spirit fills you.

    If I deny I have eyes,though I see, what have I gained? The Holy Spirit dwelling in the soul of every born-again believer, is faith's brick and mortar, for it witnesses everything God, our Creator.

    May the consequences, born of vanity, quickly find you when reaching for Jesus Christ, with repentance of sin, becomes your only escape.

  3. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    Yes if anybody only knew what sin was.

  4. Disappearinghead profile image90
    Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago

    I must say it is an interesting question to ask and is along the lines of personal questioning I have been doing of late.

    I spent 25 years in the Penticostal Church surrounded by the charismatic worship and the continual refrain of being filled/baptised by the Holy Spirit. I lost count of the number of times I stood in a prayer line, eyes closed and hands raised. Despite their insistence that they are not ritualistic, everything I witnessed was very formulaic. But in all those 25 years, I never once 'felt' or 'sensed' the HS inside or outside of myself, as just about everyone else claimed; not that it was ever explained what the HS presence was supposed to feel like.

    I've just finished a book on self hypnosis which does describe the workings of the unconscious brain in layman's terms. Apparently our concious mind is a thin veneer of who we are and all thoughts originate in the sub-concious which some milli seconds later might decide to let our conscious mind be aware of them.

    All the thoughts, visions, pictures that pop into our heads 'from nowhere' that the Penticostals claim is the HS speaking can alternatively be explained by the sub-concious putting them there and no HS is present. But then I'm mindful that Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within us which might be aka the sub-conscious.

    1. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You betcha ...   Is is ours ??  It seems to me that a bunch of my thoughts come from outside of myself.
         can't count the times that I wished I had thought  "Something" ..     
      a couple of days quicker than I did. That thought wasn't even in my head a couple of days ago!  talk about a DUH moment.
         Seems as though my subconcious mind hides itself from me?

    2. rdcast profile image77
      rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Disappearinghead, Jesus Christ responds to the individual lost soul who decided alone, to reach out for salvation. A group can't do that, Though groups of believers can perform effectual prayers, once they agree. I grew up attending a Baptist Church, yet avoided reaching out for salvation until in my early 20's at a point in time when I could no longer fake reasons for existing.

      I no longer attempt to to relay all that I've experienced in the realm of my spirituality because it's never received well and I've come to believe that many things performed for the repentant believer is wholly intended for that individual alone.

      I also stay away from speaking of emotional feelings, or any physical impact as it might relate to any given spiritual experience, only because that sort of thing varies based on many factors, such as maturity. It's like how an individual might feel when receiving mother's hugs.

    3. 0
      Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry, but I'm very curious: Why did you spend 25 years doing something from which you apparently gained no benefit?

      1. Disappearinghead profile image90
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A number of reasons: social scene, security, fear of hell, lack of critical thinking. I'm better now thankyou.

        1. 0
          Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm glad that you are better. Seriously. :-)

          In the early years of my Christian faith, I was a Pentecostal. I understand its addictive nature.

          1. rdcast profile image77
            rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You two gentlemen never gave your hearts to Jesus Christ of course and is why He has yet to respond to either of you as He would for His believers. Please admit Mr. Chasuk, that whatever addiction you speak of, wasn't for Jesus Christ, but rather some other element going on around you, within some Church setting(I don't go to those buildings). And Mr. Disappearinghead, your critical thinking was applied to experiences unrelated to the actual character of Jesus Christ.

            What I now see, is the rationale behind the two of you missing the blessings of the born-again experience. Because you each keep picking at spirituality as though it were a scab. It won't be long before something begins to bleed.

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              Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You are sweet, Rdcast, but also sanctimonious. The two don't sit comfortably together.

              1. rdcast profile image77
                rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Agreed, I am sweet. But seriously, I am no comfortable soul.

              2. rdcast profile image77
                rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Concerning sanctimonium, I don't shrink form blasphemy. I simply attack it.


                Observation: Mr. Chasuk, God is dealing with you, isn't He?

                1. 0
                  Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That's an impossible question to answer.

                  As I don't believe that God exists, my first answer is, "Non-applicable."

                  As I acknowledge that God might exist, my second answer is, "Possibly."

                  1. rdcast profile image77
                    rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Tonight, I will dedicate my prayers on behalf of your salvation.
                    Good night 1:50am NY time

            2. Disappearinghead profile image90
              Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I think you missed the hint in my post; I spent 25 years in Penticostal churches, and in that time I certainly 'gave my heart to Jesus'. I walked away from the Church because bible study flat out contradicted many of the Church doctrines.

              I believe in God and I am comfortable with Jesus being the sacrifice for humanity's sin, but thereafter I depart from Church beliefs.

              But you are right my critical thinking was applied to church experiences. However the Penticostal churches are choc full of people who believe on the basis of supposed HS experiences which I believe are nothing of the sort.

              My wife has expressed an interest in the family going back to a different church and I'm sure it will have some tangible benefits. However, how long before I dispair of unbiblical worship songs, claims that God has spoken when he has not, or the unbiblical doctrines?

              1. aguasilver profile image86
                aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Start a study group, invite other believers to come and discuss what you have found, if the members agree and want to, form a body of like minded believers, leave out what you hold to be wrong.

                I think that is why we are told to 'come out of her my people' but continue in meeting with each other, and the forum, though a 'church' of believers in some ways, is no match for accountability to those you love and serve with.

                1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Tehehe, that's how denominations get started.

                2. Disappearinghead profile image90
                  Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'd have to hoover the floor first.

                  1. aguasilver profile image86
                    aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    What for... Oh I see, to clear up all those bits of scripture you had torn out of the book! smile

                    (I know that would not be true, but could not resist it! me bad!!!) big_smile

                    EDIT:

                    Found an even better image! (please do NOT take offence DH, I just like it!)

                    http://www.aradicalforjesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ShreddedBible_thumb.png

              2. rdcast profile image77
                rdcastposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you for bringing me up to speed on your viewpoint Mr. Disappearinghead. I would say to you concerning the notion that the Church is represented by buildings, is far from reality. It is the individual believer who is the Church. Otherwise, every time people walk out of that building, they are in a sense leaving the Church. That is unfortunate.

              3. A Thousand Words profile image80
                A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'm looking forward to learning about the Disappearing-head Denomination in the future. Haha. The no BSers. I guarantee you that if there are enough people who believe the things that you find are corrupt, unbiblical and the like, and you do start a group, in 5 years or so we'll be hearing about it. People might even call you a sect if you're too different!

                1. Disappearinghead profile image90
                  Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  smile I've already got an old school friend on facebook that thinks I'm a heretic and lost the plot because he is a young earth creationist and I've the temerity to question his bigoted anti-gay agenda.

                  1. aguasilver profile image86
                    aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You have old school friends that still even speak to you!

                    You are blessed, all my friends old and new left stage right when I first came to faith!

  5. rdcast profile image77
    rdcastposted 4 years ago

    "when they get too friendly" that is both sad and hilarious, but so true. Be in the world, not of it.

    1. aguasilver profile image86
      aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Another truism...

  6. Felixedet2000 profile image62
    Felixedet2000posted 4 years ago

    Mark, Do you believe it is only Christians that murders and rape people in the name of Christ?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Just pointing out the hypocrisy of claiming millions of fellow christians and at the same time disowning them. wink

      How many of these millions of fellow christians were real christians? lol

    2. 0
      Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      To the same degree that I believe it is only Muslims who murder and rape in the name of Allah.

  7. Felixedet2000 profile image62
    Felixedet2000posted 4 years ago

    God is a spirit, it''s impossibility for mortality to comprehend immortality with a mindset of  mortality.

    1. EinderDarkwolf profile image61
      EinderDarkwolfposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It's also impossible for immortality to comprehend mortality with a mindset of immortality. The statement works both ways.

  8. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Addressing the forum topic: Damn! You're so close, you're burning up! Ever play that game? Colder/Hotter? The spirit itself is the source of the hypnotism. If you don't believe in the spirit, you can't really do it. If you don't believe in hypnotism...well, you can't do that either. It is a higher understanding of self.

 
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