Christians Need to Vote Obama Out IN November

1. 58

   Billjordanposted 11 years ago

   Obama has finally went to far in his war on Christianity by declaring his support of same sex marriage this is a slap in the face of every God fearing married couple in America. While liberals dance in the streets and rejoice we who love God must raise up in go to the polls in vote Obama out.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      How is it a slap in the face and part of a war on Christianity exactly?
      
      You lost me at the bit where you get to tell other people what they should be doing.
      
      Little wonder your religion is responsible for so many fights.

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      1. 58

         Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Mark you would not understand so I apologize for using language that confuses you.

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         1. 59

            Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I would not understand?
            
            You mean you are incapable of rationally explaining how gay men being married is a war on Christianity more like. As a matter of interest - how does this fit in with your statement ion one of your hubs?
            
            "Forgiveness is one of the keys to living a God centered life; forgiveness is mention in Matthew chapter six in the prayer known in scripture as the lord’s prayers “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespass against us,” here we have Jesus telling his disciples that they should seek forgiveness and give forgiveness."
            
            (Sorry - I was editing as you replied)

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            1. 58

               Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Mark I have no problem explaining how gay men being married is a war on Christianity but you would have to be a christian to understand because you would have to believe god made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Since you do not believe in God how could you possibly understand. See I am not at war with you I understand your position and respect it.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Plenty of Christians support the President's position. Until recently there was a gay, bishop living with a mate in a long-term committed relationship (or married?) in the Episcopal Church. Not all Christian churches are intolerant of people whose sexual orientation and relationships are not heterosexual.

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            2. 58

               Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Mark did you have to use my own words on me

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               1. 59

                  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes. If you hadn't noticed - this is my issue with Christianity - preaching forgiveness and acting the opposite.
                  
                  Why? Is that a problem? You are the one writing about forgiveness.

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                  1. 60

                     Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Billjordan - You forgot to add the words "Ignorant" and "Bigots"  to your title. It should of read, "Ignorant Christians and Bigots Need to Vote Obama Out IN November."

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         2. 61

            mikelongposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yup....bigotry can be hard for many people to understand...

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         3. 73

            pagesvoiceposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            What I don't understand is your grammatically incorrect statement, in part, "Obama has finally went to far in his war on Christianity by declaring his support of same sex marriage this is a slap in the face of every God fearing married couple in America." "Went" should be "gone" and "to" should be "too," and "in" should be "on" and finally, where does this sentence end and a new one begin? Seriously, slap my forehead and let it be known throughout the land of televangelists, Jerry Falwell's and Pat Robertson's that according to their skewed and unchristian views, gays and lesbians should be able to walk the straight line of what others feel their lives should be like. Wow...does anyone know how to play "Dueling Banjos?" Seriously, weren't these men straight arrows? I rest my case.

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               Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Well put.

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      2. 70

         TomBlalockposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Religion isn't responsible for fights. That is like saying a gun walked into a home and murdered an entire family. Religion is just an extension of human nature. Human nature likes its own belief system to be correct, and validated by others as correct. Forcing people out and regulating their lives is his way of validating his beliefs. Personally, my beliefs are just fine kept to myself, and while I might be a Christian, I'm sure as hell not going to vote for Mitt Romney. I dislike Obama for entirely objective reasons, but Romney will destroy this economy faster than you can blink.

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            Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You're right. Religion isn't responsible for fights. It's those who follow religion which are the cause of the fights.
            
            It's not an extension of human nature. It directly violates human nature.
            Untrue. Human nature doesn't have a belief system. Belief systems are created on an individual level.
            That's good to know.
            This I will agree with.

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               TomBlalockposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Human nature is just that, a nature, a way of acting typical of all of most of a certain type or thing. If that nature can act out through a certain thing, such as a man wielding a sword in battle can use it as an extension of himself, then when such a thing is Religion, it is an extension of human nature. Man using Religion to lash out at other men is an extension of human nature.

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                  Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  

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      3. 60

         Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Hell must have frozen over because I agree with you. This newest political ploy is not a slap in the face to Christians, its just another ploy.

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         lorlie6posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Mark, I love it when you post-one amazing and much needed breath of fresh, sweet air.  Thanks for this, first, comment.
         Biljordan, I think you've got this religion/government thing way out of context.  Your position on this matter frightens me and offends my spirituality.  But of course, you have the right to your own opinion.

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         1. 58

            Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I do not mean to offend your spirituality that I will apologize for.

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               lorlie6posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you.

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   2. 59

      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Did God proof-read your submission?

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   3. 57

      Alternative Primeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If that's what you call a war, how would you categorize Romney's blatant, unconscionable intent to immediately abolish health care for women, eliminate the current Distribution & Administering of Social Security & Medicare to our Senior Citizens who have earned and need it, while at the same time re-affirming support for the issuance of billions in tax payer monetary gifts to the Oil & Gas industry? A sector that rakes in seemingly record profits each and every quarter and certainly does not need the funds? -
      
      This is of course Romney's position today, what it will be next week is really anyone's guess - Perhaps a "Mandatory Residential Property Tax Increase" to support Exxon Mobil Corporate Executives - "You PAY to support Romney's PLAY" -
      
      Another time, another place this would seem absurd, but the way the Romney's think, I wouldn't count it out -

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   4. 79

      Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Not every Christian is so unChristian in their beliefs.

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   5. 61

      prettydarkhorseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is his personal choice and I applaud him for that. Deep inside, Christians are happier now because they also like the word "equality" (it is what God stands for) and what it connotes plus denotes.

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   6. 71

      AEvansposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Oh Bill, I am a Christian and I do not judge. Voting someone out because he approved Gay Marriage is not why I would vote in the other direction. That is placing judgement upon someone. I will vote based on what a President can and will do for our Country and so far I am not for Romney either. I will not give him a vote because Obama made a decision, I will vote according to what our future President brings to the table. God isn't going to punish me for that.

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   7. 59

      Cody Hodgeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Never mix religion with government. It's a slap in the face to people who don't believe in the same God you do.
      
      Also, gays don't choose to be gay. Why not tell blacks they can't get married either?

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         Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         That's a silly argument.
         Blacks have no control of their skin color; neither do Caucasians nor Asians, nor anyone.
         People DO have the ability to exercise some control over who they have sex with, however.   That's a fact of life.  Didn't anyone ever teach you the facts of life?

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            Cody Hodgeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Umm..no they don't.
            
            Arguments like that are the reason why religion and politics don't mix.

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         2. 59

            Cody Hodgeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Churches say that the expression of love in a heterosexual monogamous relationship includes the physical -- the touching, embracing, kissing, the genital act; the totality of our love makes each of us grow to become increasingly godlike and compassionate. If this is so for the heterosexual, what earthly reasons have we to say that it is not the case with the homosexual?
            The Jesus I worship is not likely to collaborate with those who vilify and persecute an already oppressed minority. I myself could not have opposed the injustice of penalizing people for something about which they could do nothing -- their race -- and then have kept quiet as women were being penalized for something they could do nothing about -- their gender; hence my support for the ordination of women to the priesthood and the episcopate.
            
            Equally, I cannot keep quiet while people are being penalized for something about which they can do nothing -- their sexuality. To discriminate against our sisters and brothers who are lesbian or gay on grounds of their sexual orientation for me is as totally unacceptable and unjust as apartheid ever was.
            
            This was a quote from Desmond Tutu, a well respected minister

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               Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Well, if that quote is any definitive indication of Mr. Tutu's philosophy, he isn't well respected by the Christian community.  Nor by God.   And it's incorrect anyway.   Comparing homosexuality to race is ridiculous.
               
               The Jesus he worships may be a poor facsimile, because it's not the Jesus of the Bible.  Sorry about that.   You should be careful about what "minister" you listen to.   Jesus wouldn't have equated skin color to homosexual habits.  The more people try to make Jesus into a Leftwing political activist, the more their insecurity and ignorance of the Bible shows.

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                  Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Since homosexuality is genetic, don't you think god would be a little more understanding?
                  
                  Don't forget he created them

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Genetic? Sorry, but you can't blame God.

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                        Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Blame?
                        
                        Are you supposed to be judging others?

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               2. 59

                  Cody Hodgeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You're kidding right? Desmond Tutu is one of the most respected ministers in the world. He won a Nobel prize and was one of the leading figures in ending apartheid.

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                     Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks, Cody...I was a little wordier in pointing that out to Brenda, but you beat me to it. 

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                     1. 59

                        Cody Hodgeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        No problem.....I find it typically takes few words to defeat ignorance with facts (:

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                  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Brenda, do you know who Desmond Tutu is?  If you can honestly bring yourself to say - with a straight face no less - that Archbishop Desmond Tutu is not respected by the Christian community, nor by God - you have perhaps no clue about who God actually is and what He expects of those who follow him.  Feel free to talk condescendingly about a man who's won the Nobel Peace Prize (1984), and then wonder why Christians - by the very power of their own words - are looking more and more like bigoted fringe extremists.
                  
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, excuse me.  I should've said he shouldn't be respected by the Christian community, given the quote that was posted comparing homosexuality to race.  Yes of course I said that with a straight face.  It's Mr. Tutu who should have trouble saying that quote with a straight face.

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               4. 77

                  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Desmond Tutu not respected by the "Christian community" (whatever that is) or God?
                  Eat your words on that statement, Brenda.
                  I think it's important to see the full list of ARCHBISHOP Tutu's honors and awards. I didn't bother bolding all the honorary Divinity or Theology degrees...
                  
                  
                  1978
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Divinity
                  
                  General Theological Seminary, United States of America
                  
                  
                  
                  Fellow of King's College London
                  
                  London, England
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Civil Law
                  
                  University of Kent, England
                  
                  
                  1979
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  Harvard University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  1980
                  
                  Prix d'Athene
                  
                  Onassis Foundation, Greece
                  
                  
                  
                  1981
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Theology
                  
                  Ruhr University, Bochum, West Germany
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Divinity
                  
                  University of Aberdeen, Scotland
                  
                  
                  Newsmaker of the year
                  
                  Southern African Society of Journalists, South Africa
                  
                  1982
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Sacred Theology
                  
                  Columbia University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  1983
                  
                  Family of Man Gold Medal Award
                  
                  1984
                  
                  Martin Luther King Junior Humanitarian Award
                  
                  United States of America
                  
                  
                  Nobel Peace Prize
                  
                  Oslo, Norway
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  Saint Paul's College, Virginia, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  Claremont Graduate University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Sacred Theology
                  
                  Dickinson College, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  Howard University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  1985
                  
                  Freedom of The City
                  
                  Florence, Italy
                  
                  
                  1986
                  
                  Freedom of The City
                  
                  Merthyr Tydfil, Wales
                  
                  
                  Magubela prize for liberty
                  
                  
                  1987
                  
                  Freedom of The City
                  
                  Durham, England
                  
                  
                  Pacem in Terris Award
                  
                  United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  University of the West Indies, West Indies
                  
                  
                  1988
                  
                  Chancellor of the University of the Western Cape
                  
                  Cape Town, South Africa
                  
                  
                  1989
                  
                  Third World Prize (jointly)
                  
                  
                  1990
                  
                  Freedom of The City
                  
                  Lewisham, England
                  
                  
                  
                  Freedom of The City
                  
                  Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo
                  
                  
                  Honorary Degree
                  
                  Oxford University, England
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctor of Humane Letters
                  
                  University of Missouri-Kansas City, United States of America
                  
                  
                  
                  1991
                  
                  Fellow of the African Academy of Sciences
                  
                  Nairobi, Kenya
                  
                  
                  1992
                  
                  Bishop John T. Walker Distinguished Humanitarian Service Award
                  
                  
                  
                  1993
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Albion College, Albion, MI, USA
                  
                  
                  1995
                  
                  Chaplain and Sub-Prelate of Venerable Order of Saint John
                  
                  
                  1996
                  
                  Order for Meritorious Service Award (Gold)
                  
                  South Africa
                  
                  
                  Award for Outstanding Service to the Anglican Communion
                  
                  England
                  
                  
                  
                  1997
                  
                  Humanitarian Award
                  
                  African Times, New York, United States of America
                  
                  
                  
                  Bill of Rights Award
                  
                  American Civil Liberation Union Fund, United States of America
                  
                  
                  
                  ROBIE award
                  
                  Jackie Robinson Foundation, New York, United States of America
                  
                  
                  
                  1998
                  
                  Grand Officer of the Légion d'honneur
                  
                  France
                  
                  
                  
                  Roosevelt Freedom Award
                  
                  Middelburg, The Netherlands
                  
                  
                  
                  Honorary Degree
                  
                  Bishop's University, Canada
                  
                  
                  
                  1999
                  
                  Albert Schweitzer Humanitarian Award
                  
                  United States of America
                  
                  
                  Order of Merit Grand Cross
                  
                  Germany
                  
                  
                  Dedicatee of the Annual Survey of American Law
                  
                  New York University School of Law, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Order of Meritorious Service (Gold)
                  
                  South Africa
                  
                  
                  Sydney Peace Prize
                  
                  Sydney, Australia
                  
                  
                  Freedom of the City
                  
                  Kingston upon Hull, England
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Divinity
                  
                  University of Cambridge, England
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Florida International University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  University of Hull, England
                  
                  
                  Wilberforce Medal
                  
                  England
                  
                  2000
                  
                  Delta Prize for Global Understanding
                  
                  Atlanta, United States of America
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  University of Toronto, Canada
                  
                  
                  Honorary Degree
                  
                  Yale University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Divinity
                  
                  University of Trinity College, Canada
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  University of Alberta, Canada
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humanities
                  
                  Seattle University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Pompeu Fabra University, Spain
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  Osgoode Hall Law School, Canada
                  
                  
                  Honorary Degree
                  
                  University of Oklahoma, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Athenagoras Prize for Human Rights
                  
                  Chicago, United States of America
                  
                  2001
                  
                  One room named for Desmond Tutu at Southwark Cathedral[1]
                  
                  London, England
                  
                  
                  Honorary Degree
                  
                  Fort Hare University, South Africa
                  
                  
                  2002
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Vaal University of Technology, South Africa
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  University of Washington, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Potchefstroom University, South Africa
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Theology
                  
                  University of Pretoria, South Africa
                  
                  
                  Dr. Jean Mayer Global Citizenship Award
                  
                  Tufts University, Medford, Massachusetts, United States of America
                  
                  
                  2003
                  
                  International Advocate for Peace Award
                  
                  Cardozo School of Law, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  Rhodes University, South Africa
                  
                  
                  Golden Plate Award
                  
                  Academy of Achievement, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Divinity
                  
                  Willamette University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Père Marquette Discovery Award
                  
                  Marquette University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  James Parks Morton Interfaith Award
                  
                  Interfaith Center of New York, United States of America
                  
                  
                  
                  2004
                  
                  Desmond Tutu HIV Centre founded
                  
                  Cape Town, South Africa
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Warsaw University, Poland
                  
                  Desmond Tutu Centre for War and Peace founded
                  
                  Liverpool Hope University, England
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  University of British Columbia, Canada
                  
                  
                  2005
                  
                  Action Against Hunger Humanitarian Award
                  
                  New York, NY, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  Berea College, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Gandhi Peace Prize
                  
                  India
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  University of North Florida, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Desmond Tutu TB Centre founded
                  
                  Stellenbosch University, South Africa
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  Fordham University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Desmond Tutu Education Center founded
                  
                  General Theological Seminary, United States of America
                  
                  
                  
                  Chartered Institute of Public Relations' President's Medal
                  
                  Harrogate, England
                  
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Ghent University, Belgium
                  
                  
                  2006
                  
                  Union Medal
                  
                  Union Theological Seminary, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Light of Truth Award from the International Campaign for Tibet
                  
                  Brussels, Belgium
                  
                  
                  Desmond Tutu Centre for the ARROW Project founded
                  
                  Plymouth, England
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate in Public Service
                  
                  The College of William & Mary, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Gandhi King Ikeda Community Builder’s Prize
                  
                  Morehouse College, United States of America
                  
                  
                  King Hussein Prize
                  
                  New York, United States of America
                  
                  
                  2007
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate in Education
                  
                  Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University, South Africa
                  
                  
                  Alumnus of the Year
                  
                  King's College London, England
                  
                  
                  Mahatma Gandhi Global Nonviolence Award
                  
                  James Madison University, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Laws
                  
                  University of Ulster, Northern Ireland
                  
                  
                  Profiles in Courage Award[2]
                  
                  Danish Kennedy Society, Denmark
                  
                  
                  Honorary Fellowship
                  
                  Guild of Church Musicians, London, England
                  
                  
                  Tutu Foundation UK launched[3]
                  
                  London, England
                  
                  
                  Marion Doenhoff Prize for International Reconciliation and Understanding
                  
                  Germany
                  
                  Washington National Cathedral Prize for Advancement in Religious Understanding
                  
                  Washington, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  University of Pittsburgh, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters
                  
                  Carnegie Mellon University, United States of America
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Wheelock College, United States of America
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate of Humanities
                  
                  James Madison University, United States of America
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  Queen's University Belfast, Northern Ireland
                  
                  
                  2008
                  
                  OUTSPOKEN Award
                  
                  International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, San Francisco, United States of America
                  
                  
                  Lincoln Leadership Prize
                  
                  Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation, Chicago, United States of America
                  
                  
                  J. William Fulbright Prize for International Understanding
                  
                  United States Department of State, United States of America
                  
                  
                  2009
                  
                  Spiritual Leadership Award
                  
                  Humanity's Team, Pretoria, South Africa
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate in Theology
                  
                  Faculty of Protestant Theology at the University of Vienna, Austria
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate
                  
                  University of Geneva, Switzerland
                  
                  
                  Honorary Doctorate[4]
                  
                  Bangor University, Wales
                  
                  
                  Presidential Medal of Freedom[5]
                  
                  United States of America
                  
                  
                  2011
                  
                  Global Treasure award
                  
                  Skoll World Forum, Oxford, England

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                  1. 59

                     Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I just ruined another keyboard.  When will I ever learn to not drink while reading Brenda's posts?

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                        Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Probably about the same time she stops posting them.
                        Cheers, Ron!

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                           Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           My eyes are deceiving me.  I think I read something along the lines of her being a model Christian and Desmond Tutu being a pretender?

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                              Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Maybe you would see more clearly if you take the hat off your nose!

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                                 lorlie6posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Just passin' through, folks, but had to write MM and say FUNNY, gal!  I think actually that his hat IS his nose, so only plastic surgery would apply in this particular case!
                                 Good to see you again, my ole pal...
                                 
                                 Okay, y'all go on with this debate/debacle!

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                                 Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 
                                 
                                 Ya think?

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                     Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     MM, I'm so glad you posted that.  I fear, however, that because Brenda disagrees with Archbishop Tutu's feelings that all human beings deserve equal love and respect, it is all for naught.  But, I'm sure that one day she'll wave her Nobel Prize under our noses and we'll regret ever disagreeing with her.

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                        Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Well you know, since Obama won it, the NPP has been highly devalued by many, especially those on the right.
                        

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            Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Out of curiosity, Brenda, what studies have you been a part of regarding the biogenesis of homosexuality?  Can you toss out some numbers from that study that clearly indicate that homosexuality is nothing but a choice?  You are 100% correct in that we choose with whom we have sex - however, we do not choose to whom we are attracted.  Hence the term, sexual orientation.  We are born with it.  Yes, we choose how to express it, but if we are indeed born with it, I think God will be slightly more forgiving than fundie Christians who seem to think it can simply be prayed away.
            
            He did indeed make us - and He didn't make any mistakes.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Well, gee, there are people who are attracted to little kids too.  Sorry, but that doesn't mean we should make it legal for them to marry a kid.   But hey, maybe you could make that a Campaign issue for Obama too;  I bet the radical Left would jump on that bandwagon in a heartbeat if it would help Obama get elected.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  That's beside the point... a kid is not a consenting adult. Duh...

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Yeah, you're right.  And sexual habits aren't comparable to skin color either.  Duh.

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                        Cody Hodgeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        The issue is discrimination. You can't discriminate against people because they are black. You can't discriminate against people because they are female. You can't discriminate against people because they are gay. People DO NOT CHOOSE to be gay. What advantage is there to doing so?

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                        Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Since they are genetic they are very comparable.

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                  Cody Hodgeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, at least we know how people like Palin and Bachmann get elected...
                  
                  Also, it has been well documented that most child predators were abused themselves as children. That DOES mess you up. However, that is nothing like being a homosexual

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                  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Really?
                  
                  Sexual activity with a child is NEVER RIGHT because a child can never consent to sex.  Period.  If you are equating pedophiles with homosexuals to prove a point, you're making a very foolish comparison.  If you think I was making that comparison, you're obviously not comprehending a word I say.

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                     mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't think it's related to the gay issue or the black, white whatever nonsensense. Grow up and get your nose out of the bible and your mind out of the gutter.

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                        Friendlywordposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        People that quote verses from the bible(whatever you want to call them)almost always equate a person that is gay, with some type of sex crime or sex with animals.  Christian promoted propaganda intended to make gay people seem like criminals.  Don't act like you don't know what's going on!

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                           Friendlywordposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           OOPS.
                           NOT YOU.

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                           mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           I was pointing out the childishness and ignorance of the comment. I know how hateful christians are, I used to be one.

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                              Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Like this guy
                              
                              http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/2 … ctric-pen/

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                                 mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 My point; validated.

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                                    aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Indeed your point totally validated, the guy is a disgrace to the name of Christ, and as a believer I totally disagree with what he has stated, which is totally non scriptural.
                                    
                                    Unfortunately America seems to breed these sort of fools who are so easily manipulated into becoming a slur upon the name of Christ.

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                                       Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       So - Catholics are not Christians and Americans are not Christians - this must be one of the smallest religions on the planet.

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                                          aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          Once again you make the most inane simplistic comment that you possibly can, disregarding the issue, and then stick some stupid smiley on the end to show your mindset.
                                          
                                          Interesting.

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                                       mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       I dig christians to degree and I know their not all like that, but from the outside, that's how it appears. So many christians spreading hate and discord, it's actually quite shameful.

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                  gamergirlposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Just when I thought you'd sunken low as you could go, Brenda.
                  
                  NEVER -EVER- and I mean [expletive deleted here] EVER compare homosexuality in any kind of similarity to child molestation.

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                  Friendlywordposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Child abuse and molestation is mostly a right wing christian pratice. Like most of the actual crimes of child rape and mass murder christians commit or promote.

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                     Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     This is strictly propaganda and not acts of christian but those who claim to be.

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      mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Do you realize how hateful you make christians sound, With your "I hate queers" attitude?

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      Don Wposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In the U.S. more than one in five children live in households that struggle to put food on the table, one out of every eight children under the age of twelve in the U.S goes to bed hungry every night, and every 3.63 seconds someone in the world dies of starvation.
      
      If instead of complaining about President Obama's opinion of who can marry who, you focussed all your energies on overcoming issues like the above. And if you spent time convincing other Christians to do likewise, then perhaps real positive change might be the result. Instead you, and other Christians like you, use your energies trying to convince others to follow whichever intolerant brand of Christianity you subscribe to, all the while needless hunger continues on your very doorsteps. Jesus truly wept.

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         jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It appears Christianity(for that all matter all religion) is about what others should do, than what one should do.
         They always forget "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you", and always want to dictate how others should live.

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       DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I am curious of something...
       
       Is marriage a legal union or a religious union under God?
       
       If it is a legal union, then it should be open for anyone, as it comes with certian legal benefits with regards to health insurance plans, tax benefits, legal rights upon the death of a spouse, ETC. Which since this country has a seperation of state and religion, should be something anyone can enjoy in their pursuit of happiness.
       
       If it is a religious union under God, then it should only be preformed by a church and completely free of government, including all of the above mentioned benefits. The state should have no control of who is or isn't married, one shouldn't have to go to court to get a divorce, couples should have no legal rights to a spouses property upon death of said spouse unless, that property was a purchased using money from both parties. A non-working partner or the children should not be covered under a spouses or parents work health care plans (all health care or other expenses should be covered from the money ones earnes as part of their work, for their families and not be the responsibilty of a corporation or the government). And while we are at it, lets also go back to the days of our parents choosing and arranging who we are to marry, instead of marrying someone we actually love.
       
       Every single person in this country have the exact same rights. If you don't agree with men marrying men, or women marrying women...then don't do it...But don't infringe on the basic American rights of each person who lives here to benefit from the same rights everyone else has.
       
       People are people plain and simple, regardless of color, race, creed, sex, religious beliefs, ETC...And in this country, marriage is a legal cival contract between two people nothing more...If it wasn't, there would be no need for divorce courts to decide who gets what in a divorce. The woman would get sent back to her parents and the man would get everything else, including the children.
       
       So if we are gonna follow the bible, to decide what rights people have in this country...then lets follow the bible completely for everyone, not just the ones who live different than what we believe or are comfortable with.

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          Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Nice post.

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   livelongerposted 11 years ago

   Good luck!

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   habeeposted 11 years ago

   Bill, I'm supporting Romney, but it has nothing to do with gay marriage. I'm a Christian, but I try not to judge others. I don't care what consenting adults do in their bedrooms.

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      Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      While many will see this as an attack on homosexuality it is not it a stance for marriage it’s the union of a man and woman it’s where they stand before God and make a vow. Why would those who do not have a belief system that requires a vow want to stand before God and make a vow.

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         Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You do realize there are many many gay Christians right? Besides marriage is not Christian, marriage has existed in almost every culture and religion ever.

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            Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            there might be many gays claiming to be Christians be there are no true Christian gays it goes against the teachings of the bible which is the authority on Christians.

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               livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Nonsense. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, but he condemned divorce and remarriage four times in the gospels. You don't see evangelicals saying remarried Christians aren't Christians...probably because so many of them are divorced and remarried themselves.

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                  Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  livelonger are you sure

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                     livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     What Jesus said about divorce and remarriage:
                     Matthew 5: 31-32
                     Matthew 19:9
                     Mark 10:11-12
                     Luke 16:18
                     
                     What Jesus said about homosexuality:
                     " "

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                        Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        My remark was that the bible teaches against homosexuality you bought Jesus into the conversation.

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                           Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Jesus was about 32 years old an never married where most people where off and married by age 15. Hmmmmm.

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                              lovemychrisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Not to mention, "The one whom Jesus loved".....

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                                 Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 There's some evidence that Mary magnolin was his wife. I personally could care less, just like how the right should carfe less about same sex marriage. It's none of their, or anyone's, business.

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                           AEvansposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Bill,
                           
                           I have to agree it is nowhere written. I even consulted the Pastor of our own church. There isn't anything written about same sex marriages or partnerships. With regards to homosexuality it only implies to adultery, rape, prostitution and pederasty and those some acts were also written for heterosexuals.
                           
                           We can't always follow the Biblical words "Verbatim" because it is only a tool for how we live. So many of us run in fear of the word when we need to embrace it and study it.
                           
                           I have spoken to so many Christians about Obama and all of them are voting based on what a President can do for our Country. They are not ousting him because he chose to give all people equality.
                           
                           All people are entitled to be treated equally and worrying about how someone lives or what they do in their private lives, is not a concern for millions of us. God is not going to punish us for not judging; he will punish us for pointing fingers and that is something I don't want on my head or written in the good book.

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                              DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Good post. <thumbs up>

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               TheMagicianposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               So you mean to tell me my best friend who's known he was "different" since he was 14, has attending church every single Sunday and Wednesday, and donated his time to helping younger kids in his congregation during summer bible camp and prays every night to God isn't a true Christian? What gives you the right to say so?
               
               I'm sure you're a fan of football and wearing different fabrics. Looks like you're not a true Christian. Whoops.

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                  Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't make the rules some people like to do drugs in claim to be God fearing and pray everyday and help others would you consider them christian.

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Awesome forgiveness I feel from you dude.
                     
                     "Forgiveness is one of the keys to living a God centered life; forgiveness is mention in Matthew chapter six in the prayer known in scripture as the lord’s prayers “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespass against us,” here we have Jesus telling his disciples that they should seek forgiveness and give forgiveness."
                     
                     Didn't take you long to shrug that off did it? Them homos are trespassing against you and - you are forgiving them all over the place.
                     
                     Makes me want to sign up and join Christ's warriors right away.
                     
                     *insert sarcasm smiley here*

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                        Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Mark okay I have to forgive them because I do believe they require forgiveness but I know you gonna say who the hell am I and I agree I just want to end Obama reign of terror on people of faith. I do not hate gays I don't hate Obama but I strongly disapprove of his liberal veiws.

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                           Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           There is no reign of terror.

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                              Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              That what you believe I choose to believe otherwise he has said several things that go against christian beliefs

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                                 Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 It is not the job of government to affirm your religious beliefs. A reign of terror is telling people who love one another that they can't get married.

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                                    Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    I'll even add to this...it isn't the government's job to dish out Christian believed laws.

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                           Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Reign of terror on people of faith...you're joking right.
                           
                           It's already bad enough that this country has 80% or more of it's citizens who are religious and think they have a right to tell other people how to live their life. They use this pathetic and false right, to attempt setting laws which would be more damaging to America and would never promote growth in America.
                           
                           The religious tyranny of America MUST come to end. The religious folks(citizens) are to learn their place in society and stay out of other people's life, where they have NO right to be in the first place.
                           
                           I am sure you do. There's a lot I disagree with in America right now. You just happen to be one of those people. Both side of the aisle are just as useless as one another.
                           
                           And for those who think Ron Paul is the answer? Think again. I don't disagree with everything Ron Paul has said either.
                           
                           What I don't approve of is citizens blindly electing officials to office through faith in their religious beliefs. Voting hypocrites to office isn't the way to fix things. It does however show the mentality of the voters.

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Reign of terror? Surely you should be forgiving instead of disapproving?
                           
                           That is the way to live a god-centered life after all.

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               Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               It's a proven fact that Jesus is gay.  Are you saying that Jesus is not Christian?

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               habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               So...you don't sin? IF homosexuality is a sin, it's no worse than sins that all of us commit. Sins are equal in the sight of God. I sin - I smoke, I lust, and I sometimes overeat. Who am I to judge others? How does what the LGBT community does in any way affect you? I'm sorry, but my Christianity includes love, acceptance, and tolerance.
               
               With your way of thinking, anyone who sins can't be a Christian. In that case, there are 0 Christians on the entire planet.

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               Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Sure it goes against one particular mandate in the old testament but do you: Kill anyone of other faiths? They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
               
               Do you kill women if they are not virgins on their wedding night? But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)
               
               Do you kill people for working on Sunday? The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
               
               If you don't do these things you are also not obeying some of the statements in the old testament so I think a gay person could easily be more christian than you.

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               aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               We live in a secular world, and what the 'kings' of that world wish to do is purely their choice, for they do not follow God or Christ, at least not in politics.
               
               Equal legal rights and obligations for homosexuals is their choice, and I see no reason why any believer should be concerned over this.
               
               From a secular position, it makes sense, and I do not feel that Godly marriage is in any way threatened by same sex legislation, because the only marriage that is accepted by God is the one conducted in the sight of the congregation in the presence of God.
               
               Clearly the Christian God of the bible will not approve these one sex 'marriages' and so in any case they are only the same legal certificate that most folk receive from their government confirming they are legally responsible to each other and the state
               
               Scripturally we are living in the end times, and it is clearly stated that apostasy and iniquity will increase before Christ returns, so personally I see this as a positive sign that the whole mess will be sorted out sooner rather than later.
               
               God appoints governments and kings, however He allows bad government and kings as well, in accordance with the choices the people make.
               
               Currently most of creation is heading towards iniquity, and self governance features in the collective thinking, they deserve the government they ask for.
               
               God still loves ALL of His creation, we are well advised to remember that, and where possible speak into situations that need clarity.
               
               But what the world decides has nothing to do with what God decrees for His Kingdom.
               
               As a believer you should live in His Kingdom, so there is little point in trying to tell the adjoining kingdom how they run themselves.
               
               Inform them of their error, most definitely, but not dictate.

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                  Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You are a very wise man I have to agree with your wisdom well said.

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         Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Many many many people do not get married in a church.

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         kerrygposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Marriage is not an exclusively religious ceremony, and it certainly isn't an exclusively Christian one.

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            Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I just assume get married by Elvis and have Buddy Holly as a witness.

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      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      It's a little off-topic, but if your partner consents to being tied-up and ball-gagged, is everything that happens after that considered consensual.  Quickly please, I hear sirens.

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         habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I'm warning you, Ron - you're getting me turned on!

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            Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I think in a court of law, your statement would be considered consent.

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      Mmargie1966posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, habee.  I'm a Christian.  I believe in forgiveness (but not necessarily forgetfulness).  I believe God is the only one qualified to judge; therefore I don't care what happens between two consenting adults.
      
      One of my pet peeves is someone saying its not "Christian-like".  We are all sinners.  So yes, messing up IS Christian-like.  We should strive to be Christ-like.
      
      I also believe in a personal relationship with God more so than any ritualistic religion.  My relationship is private, and I can tell you that I don't believe everything I've been taught.  However, God knows my heart.  He will deal with me for my good deeds and my sins, just as he will with everyone else.

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   Charles Jamesposted 11 years ago

   If despite Bill's pleas Obama does win in November, will Bill take this as a sign that God approves of homosexual marriage? - Over to you, Bill!

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      Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      no i will be closer to believing that the world will end in 2012

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   peeplesposted 11 years ago

   

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   emmaspeaksposted 11 years ago

   Wow! Homophobic much? How does same sex marriage infringe on your right to marry whomever you choose? This is the 21st century. This should not even be an issue. Get over yourself you bigot. You think only christians should have rights, or only straight people? Wow, just wow.

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   dzephaniahposted 11 years ago

   I agree with you, Billjordan. Marriage is ONLY between man and woman. It is absurd to call anything else a marriage. The only reason that gays are getting their way, regardless to the fact that they are a small group, is because they are a nastiest and noisiest bunch! What is next, person marrying a dog? I guess that the lawyers will find it fitting. As if the world is not screwed up enough already. I see what are the results of the children that are raised by single mothers, and most of the problems and crime is coming from them. I can't even imagine how children that were raised by gays will turn out.

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      emmaspeaksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      WOW! I guess you don't venture outside of your little messed up world much, do you? Glad people like you are quickly dying out.

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         Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         dzephaniah - Studies have shown that gay and lesbian parents make better parents. Come to think of it, gays and lesbians all come from a heteralsexual parents. So much for your argument.

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      peeplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      With all the unwanted children in this world you think no parents is better than gay parents?

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      wordscribe43posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This is bar none one of the most offensive posts I've ever read on HP forums (or any other forum for that matter).  Many studies have shown that children raised by gay parents are very well adjusted and well rounded. 
      
      In fact, it's precisely THIS type of thinking that is polluting the world.

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         livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I think we can attribute the rapid rise in acceptance for marriage equality to sentiments like his. People are so repulsed by the hatred and hypocrisy that they think about the issue more deeply and come to a different conclusion.

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            wordscribe43posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Well, we can only hope so, livelonger.  Personally that attitude has always been anathema to me... even growing up in the Bible Belt.  I just don't get it! 
            
            I now live in a very liberal city.  I strategically moved here for that reason!  I have lots of gay friends.  Two of my best female friends are married with kids.  I've watched their beautiful family evolve and grow over the years.  I go to them for parenting advice, for crying out loud.
            
            Maybe exposure is key, I don't know.  But then again, if one is so judgmental of others, they'd never even consider being friends with gay people.  And, that's a shame.  My best friend in the world is a gay guy.  I would have missed so much were I close-minded. 
            
            I do think things are changing, at least I'd like to think they are.  Or, perhaps it only appears that way to me...

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      TheMagicianposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      One of the most idiotic things that people say who are against gays marrying is that people will start marrying animals and objects if gay marriage is legalized. Are you serious? That's just plain idiotic -- a HUMAN BEING is just that, not a lamp or a dog. Get over yourselves. Wanting to marry another human being doesn't mean they want to marry a rock. If that were so, they'd marry one of these individuals because their brain is nothing but a box of rocks
      
      
      Besides, if you want to play that card, as someone very wise once said, "People say [gay marriage is] a slippery slope, and we're going to be marrying animals soon. I think that's kind of a crazy argument, because if it's a slippery slope, you shouldn't have started it by marrying in the first place."
      
      And to Wordscribe43, I've heard of these studies as well and it really does hold weight -- being raised by a minority or someone who follows the idea that everyone deserves happiness and equality, whether they're gay or straight, would certainly impact the child to be a more open-minded and loving individual. It's unfortunate though that so many people think it's a horrible thing.
      
      Like another said, marriage has been around long before religion... either way, religion and politics should have no correlation whatsoever. This is what you have churches and interest groups for.
      
      If you really want to crack open a book that has no solid verified proof of being the written word of God and nitpick at what you think is righteous and what you feel is okay to overlook is your own business. On the other hand, there IS solid proof that the earth is millions of years old, that dinosaurs existed, and many studies that show being gay is more genetic than you'd think.
      
      As a rational Christian myself, I'm highly offended you'd post such a thing. Christians don't need to do anything but be open-minded and loving. And while I'm at it, fearing an "all loving God" is stupid. Us liberals dance in the streets because this is just proof that America is moving forward from your archaic and dated thought process.

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      kerrygposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The Bible would appear to disagree with your definition of marriage.
      
      
      
      I see at least three Biblically approved forms of marriage that are not just a man and a woman, four if you count Levirate marriage.

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         Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         non of these include two males only or two females only

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            Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The Bible is nothing but a collection of garbage that has no place in the 21st Century. Although I find that the thin pages make great fire starters.

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      Friendlywordposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The Christian Church attracts more paranoid schizophrenics than any other religion that exists.  Only Christians can make the most psychotic statements they want to without being committed. As long as these mental cases prefix their statements with "God said" or "God told me" they can make the most dangerous statements they want to and still walk the streets free with us and our families. The real horror is innocent, defenseless children are held hostage by these nuts and nobody can save them.

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   Charles Jamesposted 11 years ago

   Well thanks to Bill for illustrating why all gays and friends and relations of gays must vote for Obama this November.
   
   And also anyone who married other than in a Christian Church (I suspect Bill excludes Mormons from Christianity too).
   
   And anyone who has married while their first spouse was alive.
   
   A Christian marriage is between the two people involved and God. A non-Christian marriage is between the two (usually) people involved and the deity of their choice - or the State.
   
   While Bill expresses an opinion on Christian marriage, who is Bill to say how non-Christians should operate?
   
   Try love instead of hate, Bill.

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This is absolutely true and if churches don't want to marry same sex couples that is fine but Christians do not get to decide who marries under the law.

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         habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Who are these people? I live in what has to be one of the most conservative parts of the nation, and almost all my friends are Christians. Not a single one is against gay marriage!

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            peeplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            They are everywhere habee. I live in SC and I went to my local news facebook page yesterday and there was over 300 comments and most were Christian gay haters.

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            Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Who are these people? Well you can look through this forum and find the christian opposition, 53% of American support gay marriage according to Gallup, around 70% of Americans are Christians, over 95% of people asked by Gallup why they disapproved of gay marriage cited religious reasons, I am sure you can do the math, it seems sadly that the majority of Christians oppose gay marriage.

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            livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You pick your friends well.

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               habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I guess I do! Perhaps it's because most of them are educated? I think with most people (not all), education makes them more open-minded. My husband, however, doesn't have a college degree, and he's pretty far right. Even he doesn't have a problem with gay marriage! I think part of this is because we actually know and like some gay individuals, personally. We realize that they're not horned demons. In fact, all the ones we know are fine examples of human beings.

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                  livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I think actual interaction with people makes a difference. There are lots of conservatives who support gay marriage; many of them have gay children or close friends/relatives, and know the fearmongering about gay marriage is a bunch of baloney.

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   Robie Benveposted 11 years ago

   I see non-religious marriage as a contract between two people. That's all it is, really.
   So I have no problem accepting that two people of the same sex, that love each other, stipulate that contract.
   I got married in church, with a man, because I'm Christan and I'm straight, but I don't hate gay people and I think that having their relationship covered by a contract can bring many benefits to them and the society.

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      habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree.

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         Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I have to admit I am rather closed minded on this subject not because of any particular reason other than I feel marriage is special and should be kept that way next people will be marrying children watch.

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            kerrygposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Almost every state allows minors to marry with parental permission and/or a court order, so technically, marrying a child is legal in more states than gay marriage.

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               TheMagicianposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Yup. A few states as young as 14.

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    idratherbeposted 11 years ago

    So now Christians can judge who is Christian or not? Laughable! If you do that, you are anything but Christian! Same with not wanting a healthcare for all! So you judge who lives or dies? Who should marry or not? Give me a break! I can think of a lot of things to call you, but Christian isn't one I'd choose to call anyone thinking along those lines!

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       Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Call me what you may but I did not write the book that make the rules if you believe whats written a whole society was destroyed for these practices but you probably do not believe because it goes against your views but it is written.

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          Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          It is also writen that we should kill women for not being virgins on their wedding night and stone people to death for working on Sunday so...

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             Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             something to think about

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    mikelongposted 11 years ago

    This is the slippery slope that Christians (at least those who oppose LGBT equality) find themselves...
    
    They look for verses that support their particular worldview while ignoring or paying lip service to the parts they don't.
    
    They end up only showing the weakness and shallowness of their beliefs, and underlying bigotry that they use religion to justify..
    
    I am not saying all Christians are like this.......but there are many who are.
    
    They end up giving Christians as a whole a bad name and reputation...

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       Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       explain LGBT

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          livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Here's a helpful link:
          http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lgbt

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          mikelongposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          What is there to explain?

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    Charles Jamesposted 11 years ago

    Not all "Christians" behave like Christians.

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       Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Christians are entitled to a point of view just like anyone else and mine is to end Obama reign of terror on Christians

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          Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Love one another...that is the greatest commandment.

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          Jean Bakulaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Actually, nobody endorsed marriage, period, in the Bible, until in the New Testament. St. Paul figured if people were going to be so vile as to have sex, they should suffer, and made the provision that a marriage had to be forever, no matter how miserable both parties became. Jesus had a more loving view of the matter, but it still was a one time thing. I can't believe how the Bible gets twisted by SOME Christians to suit their own small minded beliefs. What if two gay men own property together, and one dies? Should a closed minded family member be able to fight what's in one of the men's wills who wants the property to be with the one he loves? What about gays who want to be involved in the church, and find the congregation too prejudiced against them to give them a place in it? There are many wonderful, smart, productive members of the LGBT community, and why should we infringe on their rights to be happy? We certainly should not be infringing on their civil rights. And if they want to adopt, and provide a stable home, there are too many homeless children to not allow them to be put with anyone who has a home to offer them. Studies prove that children raised in LGBT households do not necessarily become that way themselves. It's not like catching a cold. These discussions always are the same.

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    Charles Jamesposted 11 years ago

    Bill - are Mormons Christians?

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       Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I am not gonna say anything about Mormons. Just vote Obama out of office he's a liberal and liberals are not Christians are Mormons liberals

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          Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          

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          Charles Jamesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Some Mormons are Conservative and some are less Conservative. If you thought Mormons were Christians you would have said so, so it follows you do not think Mormons are Christians.
          
          So you want people to vote for a non-Christian candidate over a Christian. Who should Muslims and Jews vote for?
          
          Why not vote for the better man?

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             Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             not so quick I will not keep playing with the topic which is Obama's reign of terror on the Christian faith.

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                PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I feel sorry for you.  You seem to live in great fear.  I hope you find a way to accept and enjoy the differences among people.

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             Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Obama is not Christian

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                Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Prove it. Obama said that he was. Are you a mind reader? Or just someone who doesn't know what they are talking about? In your case can be proven.

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                   lovemychrisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Oh they know all about Obama...more than he does! They know his heart and mind and his motives for everything he does.
                   
                   Why, it's uppity for him to think otherwise.
                   
                   The Great Be-All and Know-Alls have spoken.  And they speak for everyone....or else!

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                Charles Jamesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Obama is not a Christian? I thought there was a great fuss about his pastor during the first election campaign. So he goes to church but he is not a Christian. I have heard of RINO and DINO as political terms. OBama may be a CINO (Christian in Name Only).
                
                Nor is Romney a Christian.
                
                Tell us more about this reign of terror against Christians. I have not been following US affairs that closely. Which Christians have been jailed or imprisoned?

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                   lovemychrisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Palestinian ones.

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                      Charles Jamesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Bill is talking about a reign of terror by Obama against Christians. Asked for details, there is a crashing silence.
                      
                      But if there is no reign of terror against American Christians Bill's desperate plea falls flat.
                      
                      Palestinian Christians have a hard time I agree. Does that really come from Obama hating Christians or is the situation a little more complex? Are you saying Palestinian Christians were fine before Obamsa was elected?

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                         lovemychrisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         No Charles....I'm just being a smart a$$, and wanting someone....anyone to recognize that they are being killed over there....and no one in the whole world says a word.

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          habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Liberals aren't Christians?? My best friends are liberals, and they're also Christians. Bill, as a fellow Christian, I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice. Look to Christ as your role model. Be kind, loving, forgiving, generous, accepting, and tolerant. Help the sick. Help clothe the poor. Help feed the hungry. If all Christians actually tried to emulate Jesus instead of worrying about controlling those who might be "different," the world would be a much better place.

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             Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             I have decided to let you be right

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                Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                And both are actually none of your business, either on an individual level or a societal level.

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                John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                God complex?

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             idratherbeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             @Habee....Amen! Now we can hope they follow that advise!

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          canadawest99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Whats more gay than 12 unmarried men roaming the desert together in robes.
          
          Jesus said love your neighbor as I have loved you.  Sounds like an all inclusive explanation to me.  Boy Christians really like to cherry pick their beliefs which is why their religion has no credibility.

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             habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Not all Christians.

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                Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Too many do though.

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    Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

    OP: I guess you'll just have to go hide in your church for another four years.
    Hopefully some Christian love and tolerance will rub off on you.

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    susan s_1234posted 11 years ago

    you are whole heartedly right in my book.  it amazes me that only 4 years ago this same man was without a doubt against same sex marriage and the like; now (just before reelection time) he has suddenly done a 360 on the very same subject that he spoke out against. i would like to see someone in office that will take a stand on an issue, get elected and not "change in the middle of the street".  either this country will take a stand for our beliefs or keep falling for every seemingly popular issue that comes along.  just look at the sad state of affairs this world has come to and tell me if this country really needs to get their act together.  i'm not speaking from a mountain top, but i do believe that in the book of genesis, it states that God made adam then eve was created from a rib in adam's side.  nowhere in that bible (old or new testament) was anything ever mentioned about same sex being okay.  now i am familiar with the book of romans, chapter 1 beginning at verse 8.  if you're not familiar with it, go there and read it for yourself then you decide.  but as for me and my household, we WILL serve the Almighty God.

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    idratherbeposted 11 years ago

    Thank you God for giving President Obama the wisdom and courage to say he's not against same sex marriage!

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       Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Trust me God had nothing to do with it

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          Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Did god tell you personally?

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    idratherbeposted 11 years ago

    Dear Lord, give these lost souls the fire back in their heart to love, not judge, their fellow man. To put their differences aside, and give them the strength and wisdom to feel compassion for those in need. I ask this Lord, in your name, Amen!

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       Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Let us cast our vote against Obama first then we can love the flip flop-er

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          Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          There it is again.
          The definition of Romney solely as the absence of Obama.
          He is a human vacuum.
          He's not really there except as the ideal of those who hate Obama so much that they will vote for anything simply to oppose him.
          
          Are we even sure Romney is not a hologram like the recent Tupac Shakur concert?

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             livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             I'm pretty sure even a hologram wouldn't drive around with his dog on the roof of his car.

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                Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Well his wife's $990 t-shirt had an Audobon Society print on it.
                So clearly they are pro-animal.
                

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             Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

             You people are funny, his being the absence of Obama is why he will win. Really need to pay attention.

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    Ralph Deedsposted 11 years ago

    Why is it that religious extremists of all kinds--Christians, Jews, Muslims--are so hung up about sex?

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       Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Because people naturally want to talk about it and since those religions are sexually repressive the only way they have to talk about it is disapprovingly, Monty Python made some pretty hilarious sketches about it.

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       livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       As usual, fundies take a good idea (restrict sexual activity so you aren't having sex with close relatives, corpses, animals, etc) and go overboard with it.

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       idratherbeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       @Ralph Deeds, probably because they're afraid people will know that they had sex! lol God forbid! lol

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          Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          one track minds think a like

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       habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Maybe they aren't gettin' enough??

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19. 66

    Charles Jamesposted 11 years ago

    Come on Bill - you used "reign of Terror".
    
    Details please.

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    Judah's Daughterposted 11 years ago

    Obama fights FOR abortion and is a proponent of gay marriage; he also declared the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) UNConstitutional. All of these are abominations to the LORD God he CLAIMS to follow.  He is no child of God.  Any follower of Christ should NOT vote him into office, but VOTE HIM OUT.  Those who profess Christianity and say they do not judge don't understand what those passages about judging are about: they are about judging someone when you practice the same things yourself (Rom 2:1).  We ARE to judge what is against God; we will judge the angels and this world one day, and Paul said we are to judge the matters of this life NOW (1 Cor 6:3).  If we DON'T defend the gospel and the commandments of the LORD, we will be judged by HIM.

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       livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Jesus never condemned homosexuality, no matter how desperate you are to put your hatred into his mouth.
       
       What he did condemn four times in the gospel was divorce and remarriage; he equated them with adultery. Does that mean that Christians should fight even harder to make divorce and remarriage illegal?
       
       Fat chance. Right-wing Christianists are only interested in the sins of others, never their own. It's because of this very obvious hypocrisy that more and more people are rejecting your nonsense arguments every day.

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       Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Amen

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    maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

    Aren't Christians supposed to be tolerant? Don't they give a helping hand? I guess not anymore, if ever they did, or only in their litanies! I am happy to see how dangerous, they are, like the main religions. Humanity doesn't interest them! The happiness of others is their least concern! They are human beings with their weaknesses, as for their god, if they are his reflection, what a pitying image!

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    mikelongposted 11 years ago

    Judah....does God whisper in your ear?
    
    The DOMA is unconstitutional.
    
    You can keep your abominations to your self....we live in a secular nation where your fringe extremist views do not and will not shape the policies that the rest of us live with. If you are a child of God, I want to no part of that family.  If you want to live in a theocracy, head to Iran...

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    Judah's Daughterposted 11 years ago

    James 4:4 "You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God."

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    Billjordanposted 11 years ago

    Must not loose focus Obama must go

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       Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Indeed.
       Distractions are numerous, and planned in many cases.
       Keep focus.  The future of the U.S depends on that mindset.

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    Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

    I can empathize with your dilemma on this, OP and others who proclaim themselves to be Christians.
    
    This whole homosexual thing does present a moral dilemma. A crisis of faith, even.
    
    Follow Christ... or live in fear of his Dad's wrath.
    
    Christ teaches us to love and give and be tolerant.
    God, on the other hand, WILL smite you down and turn you into a pillar of salt if you vote for Obama.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       No "crisis of faith" for me.  Nor should it be for any other Christian.  The thing that bothers us is that innocent children are being led astray by the nonsense.
       
       Now, the "pillar of salt" stuff, yeah, you might have a point there, even though you were mocking instead of being serious.

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    gamergirlposted 11 years ago

    Aww, poor folks.  Obama screws the pooch on the whole theocratic oligarchy that your churches have been pouring who knows how much money into creating, and suddenly he's a bad leader.
    
    I'd be amused watching any of his naysayers, particularly the overactive Cafeteria Christians here, attempt to do more and better for the country than Obama has done.

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27. 59

    Friendlywordposted 11 years ago

    "CHRISTIAN" HATE SPEECH ABOUT GAY PEOPLE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MURDERS OF GAY PEOPLE! SO I'M NOT HEARING THE WORD BULLY COMING FROM THE MOUTHS OF MURDERERS!
    KILL DRUG DEALERS AND CHILD MOLESTERS THAT ARE KILLING YOUR CHILDREN INSTEAD OF BEING SUCH SHAMELESS COWARDS.
    
    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mat … QFRML#x0y0

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    mischeviousmeposted 11 years ago

    The whole worshipping Jesus and a failure to follow his way thing, has destroyed the purity of the reason for the gathering. Does it not seem odd that christians, muslims and the like talk in circles? It's because they focus on very small parts of their respective holy books, as they are told to do by a governing leader, such as a deacon or pastor. And if one pays close attention, one learns that the ego of the preacher, is a motivating factor behind the sermon.

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    couturepopcafeposted 11 years ago

    So we need to not vote for anyone who's lied, disobeyed their parents, divorced, or sinned in any way? It's not the President's job to decide what sin is.

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    naomi94posted 11 years ago

    I am an atheist. So, does that mean that I am out of this equation?

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       aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I'm not American, so I am definitely out of the equation, but I would guess that the US Christians would accept any help in getting Obama out of office!

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          Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I'm sure, even if it required manipulation or cheating. They would still approve.

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             aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             You are probably correct, not because they are Christians necessarily, more because they are traditionalists and don't actually want change, more like a return to olden days (hindsight) when everything was rosy in America.... whenever that was?
             
             As a European I am used to the socialist agenda, and am not afraid of it, however socialism is a discredited system having said that, despite the advantages it supposedly provides for the low wage earners.
             
             Frankly the only way I see America escaping the Rothschild's clutches would be either Ron Paul or a second civil war, which could amount to the same thing.

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                Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Well, I have already called a "Civil War" for the future of America. It's going to happen. Unfortunately, while it happens, there will be a secondary battle going on in the midst, which is a Racial War.
                
                It's truly an unfortunate event to come to be, but it will. I'm just waiting for the singular "key" trigger to occur. When it happens, then all the citizens will be lining up to learn why? who? how? all of things came to be.
                
                This will also trigger a new age of thinking, which will bring on a completely new form of awareness in people.
                
                I will not go further into details, because at this time, the most average person with the most average intelligence, wouldn't be capable of grasping the entire totality of the topic.

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                   aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Ray I would love to grab a coffee or beer with you sometime! Your mind is a fascination and I would love to hear what you are about.
                   
                   Not being factitious, I see some real gems sometimes when you write, and always with a teaser somewhere about how you cannot tell us yet.
                   
                   Don't worry, I am in Penang, so the beer will probably never happen!

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                      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      This isn't the first time I've been told this or heard it. edit: thank you btw.
                      That's because, the insight and how it was derived, is part of something else I am a part of but cannot discuss, due to a confidentiality agreement.
                      I wasn't worried.

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    Hot Rod Loves Youposted 11 years ago

    This is making me need a corn dog and a heineken!

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32. 69

    waynetposted 11 years ago

    Only Christians? What about John the bum sniffer and Albert the dangleberry flicker? surely it can't be just Christians!

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       Billjordanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       No it's anybody that will vote the bum out.

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    gamergirlposted 11 years ago

    http://whattheheckhasobamadonesofar.com
    
    Just sayin'

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       aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Nice site, but if someone who wants less intervention and government views it, they will see plenty of things that they find not to their taste.
       
       Just saying...

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