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What's Fair in Spiritual Warfare?

  1. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    I've been told that Christians of at least one sect believe it is OK to lie to people outside of their sect. They dub it 'spiritual warfare'.

    Does anyone know, is this a standard Christian belief? Is it OK to lie to, and about, others who aren't Christian? Are there levels of what is labeled sin, depending on who the Christian is dealing with?

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Revelation 21:8
      But as for the cowards and the ignoble and the contemptible and the cravenly lacking in courage and the cowardly submissive, and as for the unbelieving and faithless, and as for the depraved and defiled with abominations, and as for murderers and the lewd and adulterous and the practicers of magic arts and the idolaters (those who give supreme devotion to anyone or anything other than God) and all liars (those who knowingly convey untruth by word or deed)—[all of these shall have] their part in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone. This is the second death.

      1. vector7 profile image62
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly.

        smile

    2. profile image0
      SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It is not OK to lie.  I know of no Christian sect that believes it is OK to lie but I do not know them all either. 

      Agua gave a good answer.

    3. ptosis profile image78
      ptosisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Read all about it @ http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

      That would be true if you consider the LDS as Christian - which I do not. What I find strange is the Mitt Romney is the ONLY Mormon in his family. Which is a fitting cult for a lying sociopath that he is.

      Please vote in on my poll @ http://ptosis.hubpages.com/hub/Book-of-Mitt on the question of:
      "Does being a devout Mormon require an ethos of systematic lying because LDS is a sociopathic theosophy?"


      http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6601855_f248.jpg

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol

        I don't mean to laugh but....man. Using this thread to bash Romney is kind of grasping at straws. Dontcha think?

        Or, did I miss something?

    4. profile image0
      Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this


      It's no wonder people get so disgusted with Christians sometimes. This is appalling. It is never okay to lie, period, especially - ESPECIALLY - under the guise of leading someone to the Lord. It is most definitely NOT a standard Christian belief (along mainline Christians, that is - those who believe that Christ was the Messiah and Son of God, that after his crucifixion, he was indeed resurrected, and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, thus establishing a trinitarian God). If indeed the sect of which you speak is the Mormons - their core beliefs do not include those stated above, so they may call themselves Christians, they do not fall under mainline Christian belief.

      Spiritual warfare happens outside of our sight in the 'spiritual' realm. It happens between angels and demons who battle for influence over the souls of humanity. In general, Christians believe that our fervent and sincere prayer can strengthen those fighting for good in the spiritual realm, lying is most certainly not one of the ways to do so.

      *Shakes head.*

      1. Cagsil profile image59
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Motown,

        Humans are not that special. lol

        1. profile image0
          Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Now, Cags. You know they are in my belief structure. And you and I disagree on that quite respectfully.

          I just have to clarify the mainline understanding of my faith when it's so poorly communicated as it has been to Emile.

          smile

          1. Cagsil profile image59
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            roll

            1. profile image0
              Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Don't roll your eyes at me, young man. tongue

              1. Cagsil profile image59
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Hmmm..... let's see....how old are you again?

                1. profile image0
                  Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey, just because I'm younger than you doesn't make you an OLD man! wink

                  1. Cagsil profile image59
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Never said it did. I was just asking because I had another thought run thru my mind when you made your last comment. And, I wanted to confirm the thought. wink

      2. MilesArmbruster profile image60
        MilesArmbrusterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        uhhhh... I am not sure that the fact that some people believe Christians lie should make you disgusted with Christianity. Christianity (and most religions for that matter) condemn lying in any form. If we get disgusted every time someone accuses Christianity for believing something the it doesn't actually believe, we are always going to be disgusted. Maybe I missed what you are saying.

        1. profile image0
          Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I am not appalled that someone would accuse us of something as that isn't what I believe Emile was doing. It is appalling to me that there are indeed people who  call themselves Christians, but believe that lying to people who are not is okay.

          I am never, under any circumstances, disgusted with God or Jesus. But occasionally Christians do appalling things, and it is those individuals with whom I get frustrated.

          smile I've been walking with the Lord far too long to have any illusions about His church.

        2. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You are right. It is easy to equate the disappointing behavior of a zealot to all of Christianity. And it isn't fair, however; Christians, as a group, send confusing and mixed signals that allow the behavior to be questioned.

          Christians have no problem speaking out in favor of enacting laws that inhibit our freedoms as individuals. Because of their 'faith'. They have no problem making it clear that those they judge outside of their faith structure will suffer eternally.

          Christians go out of their way on this site to be their unbelieving brother's keepers.. But rarely does a Christian speak out against any outlandishly antisocial and delusional behavior pattern of anyone who labels themself a Christian.

          A Christian can make any claim they want in the name of Christianity and almost every other Christian on this site will bow to their right to claim it.

          So, if Christians speak out against anyone who isn't Christian; but defend other Christians by either giving them an occasional'Amen' or stand back and not argue in defense of reason. What is the non believer to think? Christians appear to support the lies.

          Silence implies consent. Especially on a site where no one minds speaking in defense of their beliefs.

          Since Christianity is present here in an attempt to be their brother's keeper (by insisting Christianity is the way) why does it not also speak out against those in its ranks who have clearly lost their way?

    5. MilesArmbruster profile image60
      MilesArmbrusterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      In Exodus 2, the Hebrew midwives lied to protect the lives of newborn infants. Although lying is always condemned in the Bible, these midwives did not come under any criticism for what they did. If I could save someone's life by lying, I would probably do it (in the same way that people lied to the Nazis during World War II to protect Jews from the death camps. This means that there is a general principle at work where we need to use wisdom in the face of terribly difficult situations.
      Telling someone about the gospel can certainly be viewed as a "life and death" situation, but it is not the same as having Nazis with guns knocking on the door and asking if you are hiding Jews in your house. In the case of sharing the gospel of Jesus, there is never a time where lying is either condoned by the Christian religion or useful in terms of helping a person to understand. This is especially true since it is not our words but the work of the Holy Spirit that will open the eyes of a person who does not see. The Holy Spirit just uses our words as a tool.

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Amen

    6. Dave Mathews profile image61
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Our Father God "Hates" all sin. Lying no matter who it is to or about is still lying. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Christian or not.

      1. ptosis profile image78
        ptosisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Lying is definitely OK if it would save a person's life. If a genocidal crowd was at your door demanding if you're harboring any unwanted outcasts then it would be morally right to hide a defenseless would be victim. Or to save your own life, it could be possible to say, "No! I killed them yesterday and had them for breakfast this morning. I love to join you in your killing rampage but I'm a bit full right now." (liarliar)

        http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6605401_f248.jpg

        "Over the course of three months, over 100,000 people were slaughtered. Women were raped and murdered and people were being cut down right and left. Everyone who didn't go into hiding was hacked to pieces. Immaculee took refuge in a Hutu pastor's bathroom with seven other women and spent three months living there with very little food, and almost no talking for fear of being found out and killed." - http://youthvoices.net/discussion/left- … -ilibagiza

        1. vector7 profile image62
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe that's what Hell is for.

          To seperate those who refuse [meaning "I'll never change"] to do anything except destroy and bring pain, from those who love God and do good, which is all His law consists of.

          Matthew 22:37-40

          smile

        2. MrMaranatha profile image87
          MrMaranathaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Now that type of Lying... to Save the Life of someone from injustice... is quite another matter...  But.. the funny thing about it is that God has the power to make it possible for you to "Tell the Truth"  and still conceal...  Like the missionary who was smuggling Bibles into Romania and was stopped and asked whats in the trunk "Ha ha... Its full of Christian Literature" to which the guard laughed and said... "get out here you.... ha ha everyone a joker tonight"

  2. SandyMcCollum profile image79
    SandyMcCollumposted 5 years ago

    I've never been taught that lying is okay in my Christian background, ever, or for any reason. In fact, they (we) rather frown on it.

  3. janesix profile image60
    janesixposted 5 years ago

    Isnt that Jehovas Witnesses? Could be wrong.

  4. Disappearinghead profile image87
    Disappearingheadposted 5 years ago

    I was always told that spiritual warfare was standing about with other Christians and "binding and silencing" demons and fallen angels that "have strongholds" over cities, towns, districts, and suburbs. By ranting and raving and speaking in tongues, one could force these dark forces to leave an area to enable the Holy Spirit to come in and convict souls.

    However I understand that the Quran permits lying in three circumstances: to bring reconciliation between Muslim brothers, a man and a wife, and when waging Jihad against the infidels.

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's the tourist version! smile

      The reality is that sometimes we come up against spiritual forces of the enemy, and we need to exert and explain Christ's authority to them before they leave the situation we proclaim over.

      Ranters and ravers are more a spectacle than an effective force.

      My spiritual warfare is only done when needed, and normally quite silently or at least discreetly.

      The enemy is not deaf, just persistent and deceptive.

  5. MrMaranatha profile image87
    MrMaranathaposted 5 years ago

    No.. Christians do have any such rule like that.. you are referring to something Muslim related...  Christians follow the Bible and the Bible says:

    John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    Revelations 21: 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    1. vector7 profile image62
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Another vote on this note.

      smile

  6. MrMaranatha profile image87
    MrMaranathaposted 5 years ago

    No.. Christians do NOT have...

    1. Druid Dude profile image62
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What is the truth? You can believe something is true, but that doesn't make it so. If they knowingly lie, then they are misguided.

  7. profile image0
    cottageindustryposted 5 years ago

    Not only christians, but all people of other religions lie on a regular basis. Little lies are usually hidden in religious text.

    Lying is part of human nature and no one is immune form it. People lie to protect what they own, likewise government officials lie to protect the citizens from knowing the real truth about events.

    1. Druid Dude profile image62
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      O.K., it's not 72 virgins, it's only 71. Does anyone get how materialistic that is? How male oriented, how boot on the neck of the world, that really sounds? How about "Drink my blood and eat my body!" Ritualistic cannibalism. Bathing in the blood of the lamb? Sounds pretty blatant to me....no lies there. But, boy, what ablockbuster horror flick that would make!smile

      1. vector7 profile image62
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It's not about killing Druid.. lol - It's about saving. When doctors inject most medicines.. Where do they put it bud?  LOL - THE BLOOD.

        Christ is the Spiritual healer, and life giver. "The power's in the blood.." ya know?

        I can tell you people with watered down Christianity have much more faith than me, God bless them for it. I had to put some of those pieces together before I was assured so well.

        It's the replacement blood, in effect, the "life" blood - like when someone needs a transfusion because of contamination or similar.

        And why do you think vampires drink blood? Where'd that idea come from?

        They are stealing life from innocent people. That's why they're evil.

        Christ is the opposite. A lot of things you see relating to evil, if looked at correctly cause the Holy Bible to make perfect sense.

        It amazes me the insights little demons throw on a massive screen that people overlook not just day to day, but year after year of watching horrer films.

        "Look, vector said demons are real! Delusional Christian!"

        lol, yep I did. III knowww somethinggg youuu don't knowww..

        smile

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Actually most meds are injected IM or taken orally...  but please continue...

          1. janesix profile image60
            janesixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Lol.. Thats what i was thinking but i wasnt sure. The only time ive had anything injected into my bloodstream was through iv.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              That's because the IV is already there and there is no additional risk of infection.  Otherwise IV injections are mainly used for narcotics because the CNS is hit quickly that way... which is why illegal drug users use it so much.  I guess the absolute quickest way would be the spinal cord...  So the true path of power likely lies in spinal fluid... technically.

          2. vector7 profile image62
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I was finished. Thanks for trolling, but I'll bite anyway.


            Where would all that medication go once those actions you mentioned took place?


            The blood.

            As does everything that travels through your body.


            smile

            1. janesix profile image60
              janesixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If we wanted to troll, we'd be making fun of the fact that you believe in vampires.

              1. vector7 profile image62
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I don't believe in vampires..

                Focus jane!

                Demons big_smile


                And that trolling comment was for who I replied to and was a compliment to boot thank you very much.. lol...

                She got me to bite. [at an expense though]

                1. janesix profile image60
                  janesixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Its not my lack of focus. Youre nonsense is difficult to sift through most of the time.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    *Shrugs* I might have been trolling...  However in honesty is was more like a mini thread-hijack.  I got bored with the original topic but found a point further in on which I wanted to debate.

                  2. vector7 profile image62
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh, well in that case..

                    smile

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If it was injected into spinal fluid it would go straight to the brain without ever entering the blood system.  Blood and spinal fluid are a really bad mix.

              Some drugs taken orally stay within the digestive tract because they are intended to treat digestive problems...  same with IMs... they stay withing the muscle because they are supposed to.

              Other medications enter the plasma (which is the clear stuff that carries red blood cells) and are transported that way.  Red blood cells mostly just carry oxygen.

              1. vector7 profile image62
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Ok doc.

                Thanks for all that.

                The life is still dependant upon the blood. Lots of other things can kill us, but vampires, [depiction of evil] don't suck spinal fluid, they suck BLOOD. lol

                smile

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                  MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Then technically it's lack of oxygen you die from... not blood loss... smile Not a doc... just know a frack of a lot about blood.  Wrote a hub about it... worked for Red Cross Biomed for five years.

                  1. vector7 profile image62
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You'd argue with a stop sign Melissa.. lol

                    Matter o' fact.

                    Here ya goes....

                    http://www.emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/stop-sign-smiley.gif

  8. vector7 profile image62
    vector7posted 5 years ago

    Fair is not the question.

    Well, in the case of Christianity it's not the question.

    Was what Christ suffered for us fair for Him???

    Christ would not have lied to save someone I don't believe, because if they tell the truth then who can hurt them?

    Is Christ not standing at the door to greet those who do "good" and flee from all sin, including lying?

    Isn't lying the attribute Christ said was of the Devil and his children, not of God's children?

    Yes, God forgives His children, but I don't think lying is saying anything more than, "Christ can't save my soul." or "I'm afraid of death." or even "God doesn't have the final say."

    We can justify anything we like with our little excuses, but God still sees every deed done, and still has power over the end result, so why change His rules? Because we think we can fix things?

    Just for the record. I hope no God fearing Christian ever lies to save my life here on earth. I'd rather be with the Lord, and would rather not be the cause for another sin that needs to be forgiven.

    Christ my King suffered on the cross to forgive. Not to allow me to lie when I see fit. Forgiveness is for those who are learning, not for those who defy knowingly.

    God can weed out the good intentions and who doesn't mean bad, but I don't think we should sin under any circumstance. God rewards those who suffer well. Matthew 5 is a strong reason to keep in the way of righteousness if one follows Christ.

    Jesus didn't say He came to make life easy here. He came to save us from taking part in what sin ultimately causes...

    Complete seperation from God the Father. The source of all things good.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is no need to be so melodramatic. If God exists, I find it hard to believe he is.

      A lie, told to thwart evil, doesn't sound like a sin to me. Does this Christian God seriously insist that those who follow it leave reason at the door?

      I'd lie to save your life Vector; if your existence was in danger because of someone such as Hitler.. And I'd feel good about myself for doing it.

      1. Druid Dude profile image62
        Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The shell game, distraction, illusion, misdirection, slieght(?) of hand, veiled truth. All are fine weapons for a spiritual warrior.

      2. vector7 profile image62
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It's called deceit, which is opposite of truth.

        I don't need your lie, I have God.

        I appreciate your concern, sincerely.. but my fear of death didn't disappear because I got brave. It's because I truthfully know God exists and Christ came to pay for my sins and show me my Father in Heaven.

        No, reasoning is essential. If you know God is real and whoever dies is taken care of by Him correctly [some people think God's dumb, which I think speaks plenty about what they know about Him] then why lie?

        Did Christ lie to save Himself? Did the prophets lie to save themselves? Is the account of a few sins, when so many sins are recorded in the Bible, the standard for what we should do? Or should we go with the hundreds and hundreds of times Godly men told the truth even when it didn't mean a fun ride?

        I think the problem is too many people think they should "change" this or "smudge" that to "help" God out. If the people needed saving, God would certainly save them if it was in His will.

        In fact, He came to save everyone already, and at that from our sins, including deceit. Lies.

        Now of course, the difference is if one truly believes in Christ and that He is God and that God is author and all powerful, as He is indeed.

        If they don't, well then law, shmaw, who cares when they can't understand how things really work? They think we live as a ripple and vanish unseen.

        But not even a ripple vanishes. The energy is just converting as the law of conservation of energy states.

        People are so wrapped up in the petty details they miss the big picture and who is important.

        God.

        And what He wants, if we believe in Him and follow Him, is to not sin under any circumstance. To give Him due credit and glory in doing so. To trust Him. And if we can't trust God, knowing He is truly there...

        Who can we trust?

        Our lies?

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Excellent reply! smile

          1. vector7 profile image62
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks.

            smile

        2. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't care what you say vector. I'd lie to save you. Even if you wouldn't try to argue my case in front of your god.

          That's OK. I would do the right thing, because it's the right thing. No matter the consequences. smile

          1. vector7 profile image62
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, that's because you fall into the alternative category I mentioned.

            "...law, shmaw..."  lol

            I know you can't live without me. I loves you too Emiles.

            And me argue with God???

            lol lol lol

            What are you smokin'? He can do whatever He wants, I'm sidin' with Him.

            He loves you more than me anyway.

            wink

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Abraham stood up to God, in defense of another. God apparently had no problem with it.

              1. vector7 profile image62
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That's why Abraham is Abraham..

                He also said Sarah was his sister more than once out of fear of being killed. lol

                I'm Daniel - It means "God is my judge."

                And I don't question Him. Because I know God is good, and will do better for people than I can hope for.

                I would still pray for you, if I didn't know what His stance was already.

                And He requested, not stood up to.. lol

                Nice wording there though. Cute.

                smile

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It wasn't a request vector. Of course the text wouldn't say he demanded anything; but he was clearly questioning the fairness of God's plan. Pointing out that the plan was ill thought out. It is pretty black and white in the text. Had he not pushed on, Lot and his daughters would never have made  it out to the hills to have their incestuous relationship.

                  But, you wouldn't even bring it up. I'm not sure you like me.

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah, that's what I like about those OT men, they ere deeply flawed and yet STILL God could use them, there's hope for me yet!

                    God has no problem with us tussling with Him over things, and thank God (literally) that he can listen to our case and make the best decision for us, and Him.

                    First, these guys were not Christians (yet)so they were under no such obligation to tell the truth.

                    Secondly God gave Abe a number to find, to SPARE THE CITY not Lot, the number they negotiated down to was 10 men of God, which coincidently is a 'mizvar' the number required before you can start a synagogue (body of believers).

                    If there had been just 10 men in that city who belonged to God, He would NOT have taken the place down, as it was there were NOT even 10 men of God in town, and those men who were there were evil of intent.

                    Like I said, I love these OT guys, they were the pits and would never have been allowed to preach to the modern churches audiences, they do not fit the job description, but they were obedient to God WHEN IT MATTERED and that is what sets them apart as great men of faith, and it still does today.

                    Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because they had turned their back on God and started doing evil, but the people who were Gods were saved.

                    There is a parable about our times in that story as well.

                    PS: Lots wife was lost when she turned back and looked at where she had come from (and never really left) she LIKED Sodom, and so she was 'cast' (as a pillar of salt) there for eternity with all the others who turned their back on God.

                    There is another comparison to folk today.

  9. Druid Dude profile image62
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    God is the author of all things. Good or evil. God is the author of lies, and God is the author of truth. Would you like to play a game?

    1. vector7 profile image62
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah. Tell me you're an honest man. Then tell me you're a deceitful man at the same time.

      Then ask me if I think you can be both simultaneously.

      wink

  10. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    Here's a lie from the Bible that's always bothered me: cannot remember names here...

    But, a father was dying--he was blind and very sick, and as was custom--he could give his death-blessing onto his favorite son.
    Well-the son who was his favorite had hairy arms.
    But, the mother had a different favorite, and wanted HIM to get the blessing.
    So--she tied an animal skin unto her favorite's arm, and the dying father gave him the blessing, instead of the one it was intended for.
    The favorite was left out due to the mothers guile...(lie)

    But---her favorite son got the blessing....so it seems like lying was rewarded here...like the race goes to the swift kind of thing...

    Isn't that the lesson here: be deceitful, and you win?

    1. vector7 profile image62
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Isaac was dying.

      Jacob, and Esau were the sons.

      Rebekah was the mother.

      Here's a short read for you:

      http://www.gotquestions.org/Jacob-and-Esau.html

    2. MrMaranatha profile image87
      MrMaranathaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      God judges the Hearts... God also knows future events as though they are current events.

      God looked at both of those two kids... one was a typical liar.... the other was a hairy liar. 

      One wanted the Death Bed Blessing of his Father...
      The other could not Care Less about his dad Blessing him or praying for him... and counted it worth less than a single meal of lentil soup.

      One of those kids would go on to be a very base individual that was not hardly worth blessing at all...
      The other kid however... ( the one who "Lied" to dad)  Would later REPENT and go back and apologize to his brother and try to make things right. 

      Now.. when put in perspective... God knows the hearts... God Judges with standards and with knowledge of things that we do not have.

      To God be the Glory.. He forgives sinners... even you and me  if we will REPENT of our self willed lives that deny God and attempt to trust him.

  11. Smokes Angel profile image68
    Smokes Angelposted 5 years ago

    this is not a Christian belief.... God considers it a sin to lie

  12. Claire Evans profile image89
    Claire Evansposted 5 years ago

    Can you give an example of this? It is not acceptable to lie about Christianity or Jesus.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Honestly Claire? I don't think you'd understand where I was coming from. Since I do believe you have gone beyond the point of reason. I've read many of your posts.

      In order for us to be on the same page in this discussion I would have to find a way to bring you back to reality. Better communicators than I am have tried. I consider you to be a prime example of a hubber who is first in serious need of a gentle guiding hand of a well grounded Christian. Once they get through to you how seriously you have deviated from the path of truth.....let's talk.

      1. Claire Evans profile image89
        Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What the hell? All I asked was for an example of those who lie and justify it by saying it's spiritual warfare.  I've never come across that before and you must know else you wouldn't have started this forum topic.

        1. profile image0
          jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "That just goes to show that dead men can sometimes bleed."

  13. Druid Dude profile image62
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    Religion is the refuge of those who don't know God. The key word being, KNOW GOD.

  14. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    But calling those who disagree with "you" ...... enemies of God is silly.
    = - = -

       I didn't use the word silly yet was saying something similar as you just did.

      When someone has an adverse opinion to my own, I would call them my adversary which is not to say they are my enemy.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I liked whay you said jerami. It's just that us compared to a god is like comparing an amoeba to a man. An amoeba can't affect us at all, not of its own volition. We can't be an enemy, or adversary, if we are that far beneath something that we can't even understand how it exists.

      But, I agree with what you said as it applies to humans.

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And I agree to agree with you.

          As If I am doing something to argue with the sun because it is too hot today.
          does make me its adversary.

          And if I step on a snail does not mean that it is MY adversary

  15. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Sometimes when I disagree with a single issue, people act as if I am in disagreement with everything they said. Or that I disagree with them as a whole.

    which is not the case.

    1. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That just means you need to be clearer when you respond. wink

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        OR  there might be another alternative?

          If I say that I do not like rasins ? Should I "HAVE" to elaborate that I do like brand without rasins and I wasn't talking about grapes or wine.
          when it is simpler just to say exactly what I intended to say? I don't like rasins?

        1. Cagsil profile image59
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          In your previous example, it couldn't be any other way. Thus, there's no alternative.

          You stated that you were responding to something someone else said- You said that you agreed with a portion of it, but not completely.

          Thus, concluding that in your response to said statement, you should be clearer about what it is that you don't agree with. What you agree with will be known when you post what you don't agree with.
          The more specific you are, the better, so no confusion occurs. It doesn't harm anything to be clear as possible. This includes the words chosen.
          It would be fine, but the example is different than what we were discussing.

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            and which comment do you think I was referring to?

              Or was I making a general statement not directed at anyone in particular.

            Pardon the lapses between replys.

              I'm usually doing several things simultaniously.

  16. Druid Dude profile image62
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    They don't hate God, but they don't love God. They don't believe in God. They hate religion in general, but many seem to hate christians in particular. What the non-theists don't seem to grasp, is that the religionists perceive the actions of the non-theists to be proof of their sinful relationship with the son of perdition. They are, if you will, in the grip of Satan. I, on the other hand, do not share that perception.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I can't speak for any but myself; but I did know that they thought that. I still think it's ridiculous for anybody to think that those who disagree with them are in the grips of Satan.

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Who owns the Italian clothes-maker 'Georgio Armani'?

        My point is really very simple...

        There are two sources of power and authority in our world, and we all will come under one of those two sources of authority in our world.

        For simplicity, we can say good or evil, specifically I say God or the enemy (who many call Lucifer or Satan).

        The 'fashionista' that sell you a 'Georgio Armani' suit probably has no idea he or she works for a chocolate manufacturer, who also sells babyfood that kills children in Africa.

        They probably do not know and would not care.

        http://molliemorrissette.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/the-illusion-of-choice.jpg

        That is why (in my simplistic way) I tell folk that they either belong to God or the enemy, because nobody is outside of those two sources of authority in our world.

        But when you explore, and find that you are working for the wrong brand, you can change brands, or just keep selling the goods that your master owns.

        Edit: And live all your life declaring that you had no part of what happened elsewhere in his kingdom.

        But you would still be working for that master.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Dear me. What has this got to do with god or Stan?

          Everyone knows the churches are wrapped up in big business and big business is bad.

          Did you get use any fossil fuels to get where you are - or did you walk? If you used any fossil fuels you are supporting Stan.

          Who is your Internet and computer provider? Stan?

          So - once again you prove that you are actually working for your stated enemy.

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Stop trying top polish an axe that was blunt ages ago, you are being deliberately obtuse.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No - I am pointing out your hypocrisy. You just accused anyone who interacts with and supports any of those corporations that "they either belong to God or the enemy."

              When I then point out that you spend money and support those same corporations - that means you work for your stated enemy.

              That makes you a hypocrite. Throw away your computer and stop paying your Internet bill.

              Do as you say for a change.

              1. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I work in the 'enemies' territory, I accept that, but I do not work for the enemy, there is a difference.

                I work against the enemy, and he would destroy me in seconds, if he could, but he cannot, for He that is in me is more powerful then he that opposes God, so all he can do is try to stop me exposing his plans and deceptions to those who are too blind to see the situation.

                Are you trying to stop me posting?

                Who do you work for?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No - just pointing out your hypocrisy. I already explained to you that by your actions - you are actually working for your stated enemy. You dismissed what I said out of hand.

                  I don't work for your enemy - despite your lies about me. This is why your religion causes so many wars and conflicts. As your stated enemy wants.

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    So if you are not under the authority of the enemy, then you are under the authority of Christ?

                    Which one Mark?

                    Who do you serve?

                    'cos like Dylan sang, "You gotta serve somebody"

  17. Tunde Adegboye profile image72
    Tunde Adegboyeposted 5 years ago

    It is not a standard Christian belief and it is actually not a Christian belief. The Bible, which is the authority on these matters emphatically states that  "But outside the city are the perverts and those who practice magic, the immoral and the murderers, those who worship idols and those who are liars both in words and deeds." Revelation 22:5

  18. profile image0
    David Ramsesposted 5 years ago

    "Christian" is a profile nowadays. It is no longer a term that applies to true believers and followers of Christ. Those who have truly felt the redeeming grace of God through Jesus make every attempt to turn away from immoral behavior. Lying is an immoral behavior. True followers believe its their duty to lead people to Christ, not to lie about Him to others. There are many "Christians" who have never felt the redeeming grace of God. Christianity is a superficial demographic to them; or a social outlet. You should just look at them and say "liar liar pants on fire!" lol that bring said, what about true believers in horrible situations who have to lie to save the lives of those they love? Is this immoral too? The bible didn't specify.....

  19. waynet profile image50
    waynetposted 5 years ago

    Religion is about as boring as a dry fanny......I'd rather have a wank over a Donkey wearing a pink wig and silky tights!

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'd like to see you getting a donkey to wear a pink wig and as for getting a donkey to put on tights!

      You may not be up to much masturbation once the donkey had finished kicking you.

      1. waynet profile image50
        waynetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Doris the Donkey loves me really! big_smile

  20. waynet profile image50
    waynetposted 5 years ago

    Shitting on an onion?

    1. vector7 profile image62
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Donkeys, fecies, and onions...

      Any other fragrant hobbies you enjoy?

      big_smile

 
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