I have a huge respect for our American soldiers. Especially for those who haven't forgotten what God and Country is all about. And who haven't forgotten that there's a second verse to this patriotic song.
A theocracy is the least American system possible and one which the founding fathers intentionally guarded against.
Yes, you are correct. But they never intended for America to be free from theology, either.
No it wasn't to be free from theology. It was supposed to blind the masses to actions of the few who were deceitful under the guise of equality and equal rights.
What? That doesn't even make sense.
Oh, wait a minute, you're making a joke! Okay!
Wow, Chris! Are playing catch-up or what? You seem to be on every thread!
Yes. For a few days I had no access to any computer, and then I had 150 posts to catch up on!
I once told Castlepaloma that this has started to become a real time-suck. And now my wife is complaining that I spend too much time on this.
Wonder if anyone would miss me?
Sure we would miss you! You make us feel better about not being religious!
It doesn't make sense, huh? What exactly doesn't make sense?
Now, you think what I said was making a joke? I don't see what's funny.
The inception of America was a disguise by the few who possessed power and wealth in the colonies, and those few didn't want to have to deal with the British government and it's pathetic taxation on the Economy.
So, to "free" themselves(power and wealthy) from that taxation tyranny(British rule), the select few formed an ideology for America. However, if you notice, equality and equal rights for all is supposedly the basis for it. Why? Because it produces growth, on an individual level and on an Economic level. This particular idea was sold to the masses of the colonies.
Thus, the Constitution was written and the Declaration of Independence was also written. Creating America. But, when you honestly look at history- Equal Rights was a lie, a falsehood. How? Easily, blacks and women weren't seen as equals THEN and it took a long time for slavery to end, and women today STILL DO NOT have equal rights.
So, don't tell me that America was founded on anything other than manipulation of the people. It's been happen ever since AMERICA was established.
We often hear from the believers how America was founded on God, and actually, there is something to this. They used the god of the Old Testament to excuse wiping out the native inhabitants and taking over their land, as well as, using African slaves to develop and build the infrastructure of the new country.
Freedom apparently means different things to different people. It depends on one's position in society and religious beliefs as to the particular definition of freedom one adheres to. Religion and politics are hopelessly intertwined in America's society, much to the detriment of our quest for true freedom.
Oh so neither of you guys are Americans right? Because you would be guilty also right?
Yes, I am an American, but this doesn't mean I have to ignore the bad things our country has done, or does in the name of freedom. I have no problem with most of the sentiments expressed by the OP, but when she particularly pointed out those with with religion being somehow special she ruined the effect of her blessing. She is entitled to do this, but I am entitled to take umbrage to what I dislike about her statement also. Do you have a problem with this?
Yes, I am an American. I am a citizen, I was born here.
Guilty of what exactly? I am not guilty of the history of this nation and to say I was would be a stretch of the delusional mind of other people.
I was born in 1968. I cannot be held accountable for what history is before me. I am who I am and reserve the right to do so. I know what my Freedom is. I know what Freedom is suppose to mean altogether for the human race. Can you say the same?
Well I just assumed since I am a Christian and that apparently makes me guilty of whatever some idiot or idiots does throughout history that you would be responsible for what the perceived wrongs of the nation were.
No? Oh pardon me. Double standard I didn't see coming.
If you don't examine history and see the pattern, then I suggest you refresh yourself on history of America. And, look at the true double standard, the religious community has continue to perpetuate.
Yeah, it stems from you. It doesn't come from me. My standard IS equality and equal rights. If you don't like that, too bad.
First, I didn't understand what you were saying, so I decided that the laughing icon meant you were making a joke. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Okay, I begin to understand some stuff better. But the history of America is much, much broader and deeper than the actions of a few relatively wealthy individuals. You're absolutely right that equality was not practiced equally among all peoples. However, in the north blacks did enjoy equal rights with whites. Not so in the south, that's true. And it's true that Jefferson and Washington owned slaves, that's not a secret. Washington keeping the slaves because he was bound to and freeing them on his death (which you may or may not believe) is a well-known story, but I'm still in the dark about Jefferson. The whole Sally Hemmings thing is probably untrue. And the Three-Fifths Clause that is so often reviled as pro-slavery was actually anti-slavery.
The Pilgrims were not rich landowners.
The thing about women not having equal rights is a lot more complicated than many people would like to admit. And the sheer contentiousness of the issue keeps me from getting into it now. Let me just say that if the ERA had passed, it would have had little effect on the situation as it stands now.
So then there must surely be a better place than America that you could hold forth as the standard by which we should live and govern our affairs. Enlighten us please.
You're funny! A better place than America? Presently living in America still isn't worse than living in a great many other places. If it's your place to tell me to go live in another country which is more to my liking? Then, I would suggest you get over yourself already.
I was born and raised in America. I AM a Citizen and if you don't like, too bad. The fact that you're willing to accept the things which have been done in this country on behalf of so-called protection of society, and continue to allow them to happen, shows YOU are not part of the solution, but are part of the problem.
Enlighten you? It might not be possible. Why? Because, you have a self-righteous ego that is disgusting. You blame one side of the aisle, but fail to admit blame on your side you protect. That's called being closed minded or narrow-minded. Which you are is seen in your actions.
You can label me whatever it is you like. I don't fit into any category of the political spectrum because I have an understanding that freedom only comes with individual personal responsibility.
I don't agree with many laws which are on the books. I also don't agree with laws which should have been removed but haven't been, because they are just so absurd in today's day and age.
I know where my individual rights end. Do you? From what I have gathered by your posts, you apparently find it acceptable to tell others how to live their life and if they don't, then you have no problem USING the government to make them.
I find that action in and of itself, a violation of civil rights and proof you don't know your place in this world, much less society of America.
Oh it's quite possible to enlighten me and no I wasn't suggesting you live anywhere else at all. You misunderstand all that.
I am an American born and raised to but for some unearthly reason I am supposed to wish our nation to morph into Norway. Do you understand that because I surely don't?
In what way where have I ever said the government should make you do anything. I just joined with Tobey100 in his forum because the ignorant EPA is starting to screw with him over his cows drinking from his creek.
If anything I am trying to keep freedom alive.
I don't expect America to morph into anything. I expect more people to do what is right for the sake that it is right, then what they think is right.
Do you know what is right for the sake of doing it because it's right? If not, then you do not live by conscience and are lead most by ego.
I prefer America grow as a society, as one unit, because it's the basis for equality and equal rights. Understanding what equality is versus what you have been told it is, are two completely different things.
One would be truth and the other would be distortion and manipulation tactics of government, through the puppet politicians in place.
Equal rights are equal rights. If I have to explain that to you, then it just shows that there are bigger issues than some people may have realized. However, since I know not many people know or understand rights to begin with, I've written about them.
I've already written about conscience and morality, rights versus morality and what religion considers perfect with regards to morals.
The main problem in America is that the religious folk who presently still out number those who don't believe, continue to use tyrannical type mentality, in order to force society to live in a specific way. What people like you fail to realize is that it's NOT the government's job to legislate moral ideology, but to install laws to keep business ethical and society civil.
Don't confuse morals with civility.
What tyrannical type mentality? Enlighten me.
Do you or do you not use your religious belief as part of your voting process? If so, you are using your religious freedoms and practice, to invade other people's life.
If you do not use your religious belief in the process, then good. There's a reason why separation of Church and State must remain in place. It's called Freedom.
I vote for candidates I can back. If I cannot honestly back a candidate on everything they are going to do in office, then I don't choose them.
I don't pick and choose whether or not I like bits and pieces of what they say. I look at the whole package, so as to discern their true intention for wanting to be in office.
The religious folk want America to FORCE the highest moral standard possible, but fail to realize it's tyrant type mentality, because you are trying to FORCE people. The highest moral standard isn't achievable by humans. It cannot be done and to think it can is absurd.
If people are not living by G/god's will and laws, then they are not living as they should, so they must be made to, is the mentality I'm talking about.
It's a violation of people's individual rights.
Separation of Church and State? Where is that in the Constitution?
And yeah if some guy is basing his campaign on being as completely off the reservation as he can be simply for the purpose of ticking as many CHjristian off as he can I will probably not vote for him as his agenda and platform will likely follow that. Now you would do the same if say Pat Robertson somehow became the Republican nominee would you not? You don't look at anything like that at all?
Hardly think so.
I'm looking at everything based on equality and equal rights. You're not. But, do appreciate the conversation and civility.
You didn't answer my question because...like the rest of the left....you turn the first Amendment into Separation of Church and state when what it says is the government won't have a state sponsored church.
Trust me I don't want one and I don't care who get's elected. That's why it's in the Constitution. That's why the pilgrims left because you had to be a member of the Church of England to get along. I don't blame them.
I'm not going to argue with you about it. The separation of Church and State is about keeping you in check with regards to laws which are created. Church is not to have any say in the manner of laws or said creation of laws.
Remember you said this. You don't care who gets elected? Then obviously you don't care about freedom either.
I wouldn't blame them either.
Don't twist my words.
I said I didn't care who got elected in the context of not wanting any of them regardless of party to institute a State Church. You know that's what I said.
Furthermore you used the phony Separation deal and discovered I knew better. That's been a straw man of the left forever.
When you say that you don't care about who gets elected, then you also do not care what they are going to do. If you don't care about those things, then it makes one think...what do you care about?
I know what you meant. And, I know what I said.
What a joke. You really believe that your beliefs don't factor in? Welcome to drinking the koolaid offered not only by religion itself, but by government too.
Don't kid yourself because you aren't kidding me.
Your beliefs factor into your decision about who you will vote for. You are human and that happens. That's part of they way we make decisions.
The First Amendment does not mean don't think about someone's beliefs before you vote for them.
Kidding you? How absurd.
My beliefs? Really. And you know this how exactly? I hold very few beliefs and NONE of them has anything to do with politics or religion. Too bad you don't know the difference.
Not true. Decisions are based on irrational thoughts or rational thoughts. No belief required.
The First Amendment is just that, what it is.
The fact that you fail to understand "beliefs", then I guess you don't know what an opinion is or what a fact is or what truth is.
This is the kind of irrationality I deal with.
Fail to understand "beliefs"???
You try way to hard to impress with your mentality.
I understand beliefs just fine...after all I have had beliefs all my life. Maybe not the same ones but beliefs none the less. And just becasue they may not line up with yours does not invalidate them.
Actually, I don't try to impress anyone with anything. That statement would then take on the appearance that it's a self reflection.
I have no need, want or desire to impress anyone. You included.
Which is mostly your problem and causing so much other grief for others. It's a shame you don't see it.
Rational and Irrational is what invalidates beliefs. If you don't know that, then I guess you just learned something new.
When you take action which results from irrational beliefs, then you do harm to others.
My beliefs cause grief to others? You are amazing.
What about the grief theirs may cause me? Are you going to chide them for that?
While we are on that topic who died and made you the adjudicator in chief?
I have followed other topics of yours but none are as judgmental and condescending as this one.
Yes, I realize that. That's why I'm stressing the importance of Equality and Equal Rights.
Yes, I do.
This above statement is so ridiculous, it's obviously made from ego and not from conscience. You attempting to make this about me, yet again, you fail and show your own true character. I use common sense. Something not many people actually have. I'm aware of enough to know that and understand it. Are you?
Really? Is this yet another self reflection? There's nothing in my post that is condescending or judgmental. It is obvious that some people need to be told how to live? Humanity has proven that over the last few thousand years. It doesn't mean they cannot learn it for themselves, and NOT have to be told how to live.
You do realize that the human species does adapt to it's environment, right?
As it stands now, there are plenty of people willing to tell other people how they are suppose to be living, instead of truly teaching people to do it.
Empowering a person isn't the forte of any government or religious organization on the planet. Both are oppression.
See I watch that word civility these days because the left uses that to mean you need to agree with us or you are not being civil. I have seen a commentator from the left say that and turn around and call a Conservative every evil thing you can mention. No civility there. Just the usual double standard.
You know, again you use the "left". I don't have a side and my views are not from either political side. So, quit using the term. I said I appreciated the civil conversation we were having. And, then you come out with the above statement.
Are we or are we not having a civil conversation?
Or do you not know what a civil conversation is? Or is that you just want to demonstrate your ability to talk and bash other people(political aisle abuse shows willful ignorance to real problems).
I did that to make certain we were on the same grounds.
I don't care what party you follow. I don't care what your faith is.
You could be a Universal Breakfatarian. Matters not.
I was pointing out the double standard that some use. I was not being uncivil about it.''You are a very rigid individual.
No one I am aware of....and I don't recall hearing Mitt Romney say anything about forcing anyone to live any particular way.
You aren't a little paranoid are you?
Really? Is this a lie? Let's find out- Did you not know that Romney want to overturn Roe vs Wade? And how is that NOT forcing someone to live in a particular way?
Apparently his decision for wanting to overturn it is purely based on his religious beliefs. It's not based on anything else.
Not to mention, overturning that would create a host of problems, which shows he hasn't actually thought out taking that action, and probably would result in more deaths than not.
Well sure he wanted to overturn it. It's stupid. It doesn't really have anything necessarily to do with religion. It's killing possibly viable human life before it has the opportunity to come to fruition. Who knows how many potential geniuses and world changers have been lost because someone didn't want to be a parent today?
Is that all? Because that ain't much.
This is of course the absolute Holy Grail of the left.
Let's talk true words shall we?
There may well be a number of women who have been raped and have an unwanted pregnancy by that means and I am understanding of that. There is this thing called adoption which has become so difficult in the US people go to CHina and Russia to adopt. Imagine that.
Now there are also some serious health cases where a woman may die. I understand that too an it's not a case anyone wants to deal with.
In those cases I understand their decisions.
Now let's talk about what is probably 90 to 95 percent of the situation....people who just simply got pregnant at what they consider the wrong time of their lives. They are using "women's health care" as contraception. Period. God help them.
Oh sorry....you don't like to use His name.
Left? You're too funny! My ideology hasn't anything to do with a political position. What part do you not understand?
And, if people minded their own business, then this would be much better off. This entire subject isn't your place and is outside your authority, as an individual. You have no right, like I have no right, to get involved in someone else's private life.
Something religious folk have a problem recognizing.
Just like they have no right to tell me....nor do you...that I may not have an opinion on the subject.
The point of that part being they have deliberately made it where loving good folks cannot easily adopt right here in our own country.
no you are not particularly left. That statement is true however. It is the one single thing they all consider sacred....someone's right to kill their unborn child.
If something were to happen to...say..my daughter it would become very much my business. Especially if your son were the perpetrator.
Don't know if you have one....that's not the point. It's the principle.
Because if you are talking about fools like the Westboro Baptist Church or the random handful of psychos who bomb abortion clinics you are branding 99% of whats left with their crap.
Being a former Marine, I have a lot of respect as well, but the religious part has become outdated in my opinion. We must move forward now, as there is no need to remain ignorant. Religious oppression should not be a requirement for freedom.
Since when is "religious oppression" part of freedom?
ANY form of oppression is ANTI-freedom, don't you think?
It's not a part of freedom. Did you actually read what I wrote?
Yep. Like my dad making me go to church as a teenager, with the threat of violence, after I told him I was atheist. Or being asked to bow my head and pray at office gatherings, after I made it clear I was atheist.
Or being told by a psychiatrist that I should go to church, after I made it clear that I was atheist.
I'm sorry to hear your father "oppressed" you with religion!!!
This thread, however, is about the war, and the soldiers in that war, and honouring & respecting them for the effort and sacrifices they make. Slightly different, I think!
What psychiatrist advocated going to church? That's not the usual.
I'm sorry about your dad, but that was one experience. Don't get me wrong, and I'm sorry if I come across as minimalizing it, because I'm not. I don't doubt that it was bad. But America is not about forcing people who don't believe to go to church, any more than it should be about forcing those who do believe to shut up. There should certainly be room for all.
But it did happen. The psychiatrist convinced herself that my problems would be reduced if I went to church...then she attempted to convince me, no matter what my views were.
Tell that to the many young children who were forced to believe that their parent's psychotic religious beliefs are TRUE. Tell that to the people who have lost their jobs after revealing that they were atheist. Tell that to the person who's family disowned him/her, when they came out as atheist.
Yes you are minimizing the issue. But as an indoctrinated blind follower, I expect you to deny the many wrongs your terrible religion has done.
I owe you an apology. I never meant to minimize the issue. I'm truly sorry for what you went through, and if all the other stuff was also you then I'm sorry for that too. I know what it's like to have your pain be minimized by someone else, and I should have known better. I hope you can forgive me.
So if you oppress me as a Christian you are just righting a wrong right?
Of course you are the one who thinks your ridiculous wordview is superior, because you and your kind are the ones arrogantly asserting your silly beliefs, while we only react to your nonsense with reason. You are not being oppressed. You are just being challenged.
If you don't want to be challenged, try speaking the truth instead of LIES about some imaginary Bronze Age, silly myth.
I am not an American rather I am an Indian. But the sacrifice of American soldiers in the fight against highly skilled terrorist is immense and they deserve the highest honor, love and respect. God is love and so the Country and there is no hesitation to sacrifice the life for the cause of the country.
Way to go Brenda! I also vote for God and country...
Amen, Brenda. I believe so too that we should pray for not only protection, but also for guidance and enlightenment for US military personnel as they have offered their very lives to serve their country in the name of freedom and democracy, that in the end, I may see God glorified in their efforts to help free the abused and defenseless people of the world, now concentrating their efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq, and in other nearby areas where terrorism has become a problem to many freedom loving people of all races and creed.
I pray for enlightenment too of those who may be lost in their actions and in their faith.
Edwinoel, you said it so well. Yes, may God draw ALL men toward Him; may He keep and bless our soldiers!
Just so I can gauge your level of sincerity when you say "Yes, may God draw ALL men toward Him; may He keep and bless our soldiers"
Do you mean:
GAY STRIAGHT BLACK WHITE MUSLIM CHRISTIAN BUDDIST ATHIEST AGNOSTIC FEMALE
I pray that He draws all people toward Him, yes indeed. I have no doubt that He will, or has already at some point, because He said He would. It's just my way of personally conforming my will to His will, of following Him, of Loving the souls of all people like He does. I don't have access to knowing if He has already called personally every soldier. But since they're facing possible death in battle, it's certainly my hope that they either have or will accept Christ as their Savior. Just like we all will face death sometime.
Saved or not, I hope He keeps all soldiers safe. For their personal well-being, and hope for their futures. And especially for their spiritual well-being. I want every person to go to Heaven after they die. I can't make that choice for them. They have to make it.
So, certainly I want God to keep them all, and to bless them.
Now, if there's any of them who are in the military for the purpose of being a traitor, or for the purpose of pushing their personal activism agenda, etc., then I would still want God to draw them toward Him, but no I wouldn't want God to bless their efforts in that regard. I mentioned the Fort Hood killer. He either infiltrated the Military to start with, or else he turned traitor afterward. Either way, he wasn't patriotic; he killed some of his fellow soldiers. I believe my Lord. So I believe that that killer had the opportunity at some point to go to the Lord and be born-again, or...since he's still living, I believe the Lord will give him the opportunity to repent and be saved if he hasn't already. God gives everyone a chance. The Military should've vetted him better if they could've. But still the responsibility is the killer's.
You've pushed a very real issue here into play. The patriotism part. The Fort Hood killer's religion prevented him from being patriotic, apparently. Not that every Muslim would view things the way he did, I'm sure. Nor that every Christian is infallible. But it's a consideration that should be analyzed and weighed on the balance scale of National security and sovreignty. In a situation as serious as military life, there needs to be some better way of vetting a candidate. Just like there should be more intense vetting of Presidential candidates. Those two places (our military and our government) are serious, powerful positions. Not everyone is fit to be in either place. We shouldn't take those things lightly at all.
Only you would post something with "G/god" in it, in a political and social issues forum thread.
As for the "God and Country" statement, it's absurd as usual.
Yes, I realize you see "God and Country" as a political and social issue, unfortunately what you fail to realize is that religious tyranny is oppression.
Brenda - thanks for reminding us to show appreciation to our active-duty service members and to all those who have served. You are right, we need to be thankful for their sacrifices.
Memorial Day Poem
by Edgar A. Guest
The finest tribute we can pay
Unto our hero dead today,
Is not a rose wreath, white and red,
In memory of the blood they shed;
It is to stand beside each mound,
Each couch of consecrated ground,
And pledge ourselves as warriors true
Unto the work they died to do.
Into God's valleys where they lie
At rest, beneath the open sky,
Triumphant now o'er every foe,
As living tributes let us go.
No wreath of rose or immortelles
Or spoken word or tolling bells
Will do to-day, unless we give
Our pledge that liberty shall live.
Our hearts must be the roses red
We place above our hero dead;
Today beside their graves we must
Renew allegiance to their trust;
Must bare our heads and humbly say
We hold the Flag as dear as they,
And stand, as once they stood, to die
To keep the Stars and Stripes on high.
The finest tribute we can pay
Unto our hero dead today
Is not of speech or roses red,
But living, throbbing hearts instead,
That shall renew the pledge they sealed
With death upon the battlefield:
That freedom's flag shall bear no stain
And free men wear no tyrant's chain.
@ts i have respect for all soldiers world over...it takes something to be soldier ...god or without god doesnot matter...
Help me understand this picture. Did this dead Soldier or his Family approve of this comment under his image?
Was this some intentional insult to the Murdered Soldiers' Family?
Yes, shortly after his death, Pat Tillman approved this image...
In case you honestly don't understand the image...
Pat Tillman, the man pictured, was an atheist, NFL star, and outspoken critic of the war in Iraq. He died in Afghanistan in a "friendly fire" incident. You can easily find out more with a little research.
I honestly could not remember his name. I knew he was murdered, I just didn't remember why(to my shame)he was murdered. The story I remember is he was an outcast because he was a superstar football player that made the insane choice to join the army to show his Patriotism. I didn't know anything about his religious views. I never, ever heard anything about him being murdered because he was an atheist. I will do my research.
I still don't understand way you stuck this picture up here on the forum with no comment of your own? I only want to understand what you were thinking or trying to say when you posted the picture with that very insulting Bush comment written under it. It just seems to be such an evil insult to his Family.
I think the picture speaks volumes without further comentary from me. I will add however that the atheist who sacfrifices his life is giving up much more than a Christian who does the same. Maybe Brenda will start a thread that pays tribute to those who give up what they know to be the remainder of their lives as opposed to the "believers" who are after all, just heading to their reward a little sooner.
WOW! Right on Ron!
What you gonna do Brenda?
Most people are willing to die to defend their God and Country. The problem is some really bad people don't think they should be allowed to fight for their Country!
http://www.watermarkonline.com/w-news/o … ty-honored
Do you atheists want some cheese with your whines?
I would think you'd claim to have some honor and respect for the people who believe in laying down their lives for you. That's what this thread is about.
Sadly, you put conditions on it.
I have great respect for all military personnel who risk their lives.
Then why bring God into it, excluding atheists and no doubt homosexuals, Muslims, and everybody else who isn't a WASP!
Why not just say that you have a huge respect for soldiers?
Aside from the nit picking regarding God and Country; this is a great forum Brenda! Thank you for posting it. While we remember and honor our dead Soldier; I would like everybody to remember this survivor and his fellow Soldiers that saved him.
http://www.gadailynews.com/news/67883-g … istan.html
God bless the USA and God Bless our troops who have protected us lo these many years.
If that offends someone I hope you understand you have the right to be offended and move to another country,
No need to apologize. What you said is not offensive. What Brenda said is sad, but it is Brenda, after all.
All Brenda said was God Bless America and God Bless our troops.
Really? That's all she said? Did you forget this part?
"Especially for those who haven't forgotten what God and Country is all about. And who haven't forgotten that there's a second verse to this patriotic song."
"Especially?" Is a Christian who dies for his/her country somehow more deserving than an atheist? Apparently so, in Brenda's world.
Those men and women died for all Christian or atheist. Most of them were and are Christians. Nobody said otherwise. That's what you and others here want to infer.
If you have a problem with God go take it up with Him.
You will find over this weekend a lot more voices saying thanks be to God and pray for our veterans than not. That's because most of us feel that way.....whether you believe we should or not and whether you believe in Him or not.
I have no problem with you or anyone else believing in God. I just think it's sad that Brenda felt the need to insert a wedge into her "blessings." It reveals a lot, as does your defense of it.
No what's revealing is she had her throat stepped on first crack out of the box and the person doing so specifically said because she brought God into it. Nothing about a qualifier...he just didn't want the G word in there.
There was nothing wrong in what she said but true to form a progressive will do their best to try and make you shut up if what you said is not in step with what the regime wants. That's the facts.
Disagreeing with you is not the same as trying to get you to shut up.
Well after about eight or ten pile on it becomes rather apparent that those who are progressive here wish the conversation to be slanted towards their sensibilities.....such as they are.
Ah, yes, the victim whine. Just because 10 people disagree with one or two does not mean those ten people want you to shut up. It just means they disagree with you.
You and Brenda are not so important that there is an organized effort to censor you. lol
Oh please Pretty Panther!!!
How young and stupid do you think I am?
Those folks most definitely took offense and not in a small way and the comments were indeed why did she say that?
Now they would hope that if they tell her that enough she would alter her behavior so not as to offend them....am i not right?
I am a Christian and I have been given the shut up when you leave the church house attitude for about forty years now. I know it when I see it.
So, they took offense. So what? You are in turn offended. So what?
Again, expressing offense at your views is not the same as trying to shut you up, and conversely, I am not so vain as to believe you are trying to shut me up. You just disagree with me. Big deal.
See what you must understand is I or her or anyone else Christian can mention God outside a Religion forum and the caterwauling starts.
It going to happen but it grows extremely tiresome.I'm not offended i could care less whether they like my saying God or Jehovah or I Am or whatever.
But denying there is a sentimentality to try and shut people of Conservative Christian values up? That's just not looking at the reality of the media and all those who follow it's talking points. Which is most of popular culture.
And? Why is the displeasure people demonstrate towards ideas they don't like an effort to shut you up to you? Do you really see it that way?
I can promise you that's the way that it is. You know that it is as well.
No, it's not that way at all to me. Someone whining is someone whining; I don't interpret as a threat to shut me up.
One person whining is a whiner. Ten or twelve browbeating the forum author is much more.
Yes... it would be called the majority opinion.
Yes!!!! From the ideological standpoint of 20% of the nation!
Good night....I have to get up and go to church in the morning.
But - don't you want to hang around and be "persecuted for loving jesus?"
Because that is what Brenda wants and gets.
I wonder why I never get persecuted... I mean except by other Christians...
-sighs- I want to be persecuted too... apparently it is great fun.
It certainly seems to fill a void for many like Brenda. I guess it makes them feel more like Jesus. What they seem to forget is Jesus was supposed to have been persecuted for challenging the political and financial establishments - not for being obnoxious................
All you need to do is stick some scripture to us and attack homosexuals/liberals/atheists as sinners/god-haters/anti-american - you will get persecution a-plenty.
You mean you don't persecute Christians because they are Christians but rather for their specific opinions on other groups?
Well - I am not sure that pointing out hypocrisy and explaining why their beliefs are irrational is actually the same as "persecution," but that is what they call it. Any word against their dogma, any attempt at reasonable dialogue, any criticism of their behavior is deemed "persecution."
And as you know - the bible tells them this is what will happen.
You are one of the few "Christian Lites" (no offense) left here - the rest have mostly been run off. And not by the atheists.
Actually I'm pretty devout and involved in my Church... I'm just not a literalist.
I don't think that the rest of the club has gotten the memo that it's not their religion that causes "persecution" it's mostly their politics that they say is motivated by their religion. I'm not sure you can be persecuted for being a Conservative any more than one can be persecuted for being a Liberal. It would be like me saying I was persecuted by Republicans for owning a Prius.
If they were so inclined as to separate their political ideologies from their religious ideologies then I'm guessing they wouldn't take it quite so personally. After all I don't really care WHY someone is pro-life or pro-choice... just that they are either on the same side of the fence or on the other side.
Aside from politics and attempts at forced conversions I don't think anyone would give a rat's butt what faith someone was.
They seem to enjoy it (those who swoop in and attack and cuss). Looks like distraction and insults could be their middle name(s).
You rock, JSChams! Happy Memorial Day! A special day to honor God and Country, and thank Him for blessing us with honorable men and women who protect this Nation.
Hey anytime you need help with the bullies just give me a yell.
They piled on like no ones business and then denied it happened when confronted, Cowards do that sort of thing and HP is loaded with them.
You're so right.
Thank you again! Chivalry, friendly support, is not dead after all. You're one of the few, the proud, the brave.....ha; just like an honorable Marine.
I was an E-5 in the Army during the Carter administration. There should have been a special service ribbon just for putting up with that.
Cool. Hey, I mentioned the Marines. I see all the U.S. military as equally honorable parts of the Military. But I hope I didn't offend you or anything by referring to the Marines and not the Army. That quote just came to my mind at the time.
Thank you for your service to America!
Oh no I have a deep respect for Marines. SEAL's as well. If you want to see a movie that will rock your world see Act of Valor although I think we may have to wait for it on blu-ray now.
"Caterwauling," as you call it, does not constitute shutting you up You're still typing, aren't you?
The statement was clear "Especially for those who haven't forgotten what God and Country is all about" followed by a link to a Tea Party event and a question about religion, the qualifiers are pretty clear, God bless all soldiers and particularly those that are god fearing and right wing because they are better.
The qualifier was sad.
Look at the very first post and all he said was why did you have to say God?
That's where it all began and then we started looking for other things we didn't like about it. That was her sentiment to qualify that but my gripe is the fact that the qualifier did not have to be there to start the verbal beating which she would have gotten anyway.
And you know that good and well.
It appears that the only way to confront God is by proxy, as He has never shown any evidence of his existence. Apparently, He uses the most prejudice, self righteous, hateful people in society to convey his message.
You may beseech the blessings of any mythical figure you choose. No offense taken.
I am not offended by those who say God bless the USA or God bless the troops. Too bad those say that then draw a line in the sand saying if you get offended leave the country do not believe that some can believe in the USA and support the soldiers with saying God Bless. Why is that?
"I have a huge respect for our American soldiers. Especially for those who haven't forgotten what God and Country is all about. "
This was not saying God Bless to all troops...
Why should I let 20% of this country demand whether or not we should say God Bless?
3 things get you asked to leave your own country by the RW'ers....
Not supporting Bush
Not praising their God
somehow, they have this notion that they own America.
Here's a good one for Vets day:
http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2012/05/ … -veterans/
amen...I just posted one about our precious soldiers...
we are so blessed
http://pstraubie48.hubpages.com/hub/pst … ndeveryday
I think it's damn sad that Brenda's post put more emphasis on God than the troops... I also think it's damn sad that she's using those brave soldiers that passed on to purposely cause a Christian vs. Atheist thread.
And it's damn sad that she has manipulated you all into going along with it... And since it's damn sad I'm here too I shall exit.
what a sad, sad thread. I'm just thankful that those who did give their lives in service did it for all people, and didn't put conditions on who they were fighting for. A country is made up of people, not labels.
I, "Gamergirl," the transgender atheist anarcho-libertarian, am proud to have served in the United States Navy, even though it took taking myself out of the military to continue to be able to live.
To be far less cerebral and polite than I usually am toward Brenda, I say:
EFF YOU, Brenda, for making the sacrifices and trials of our soldiers, airmen, sailors, and jarheads, and making it about religion AT ALL.
"We. we together. one being. flow together like water. till I can't tell you from me. now. now."
The Thin Red Line
Battle of Guadalcanal
Maybe instead of thanking God for our patriotic military personnel we could
simply thank the military personnel(patriotic military seems redundant, doesn't it?) directly for their service.
Thank you, ye brave men and women who don the uniform of their country!
@mighty exactly....it is amazing that science and character of soldiers protect countries but credit is given to god for it!!!!!!!!!!!!...it is like someone giving life to protect us and we giving credit to sun for it...
That doesn't work. No one gets to cry about being persecuted.
It is truly unfortunate that with all of our education, all of understanding of the issues mostly young innocent people have to die because we are incapable of effectively communicating unless the communication is based solely on force.
Some people have paid a great price fighting and dying for our country I wonder if we will ever be worthy of the sacrifices many have made?
I don't think we're ever worthy as a whole. Nor individually! But we're (most of us) immensely grateful!
Just as no one is worthy of Christ's sacrifice! But many of us are immensely and intensely grateful!
If you're talking about the idea of "Can't we all just get along?", then...that theory, even though it sounds wonderful, will never wash. Because there's always gonna be evil in the world, crime, terrorist minds/actions, etc. So there will always be a need for protecting the innocent.
I agree we will always have evil. I do believe that we can be better than we are we simply choose not to.
With each passing day it seems as though people are moving further away from God rather than closer.
Relationships foreign and domestic seems to be based on strength rather than humility and respect.
As evidenced by what happened right after your first post in the forum, one i these days supposed to look upon God and Judeo-Christianity with scorn and derision. You are thereby somehow more tolerant.
The left stand on their heads and insist the rest of the world is upside down.
Indeed. And they want us to join them in that position. If seduction doesn't work, they try bullying. I prefer my feet on the ground and my head turned upward lookin' for Jesus!
I'm considering a hub about what it is to deal with those folk....the different personalities they will send you way to try and sway you and then how quickly it turns into how stupid and intolerant you are even though they are exactly that way towards you. Some of the most bigoted statements I have ever seen proceed from the mouths of progressive liberals.
I think it would be a great hub! Exposing bullying (and defining it correctly instead of the liberals' twisted definitions) is a very useful endeavor. I'm sure you know you can set the comments to moderate all the nasty responses you may get. I'll be looking forward to reading it if you write it.
Defining it "correctly"...
Christians are funny.
Moving away from ignorance and hatred. You say that as if it's a bad thing.
In addition to the other patriots who've posted in this thread (despite the nasty attacks from some atheists), and additionally other good Military men and women that I'm sure are around HubPages, I want to thank you also for defending the word of God in your hubs, and for serving in the American Military. I know you would've posted here if you could've. Blessings!
Yes, IF they're intent on actually defending America and not destroying it from within or without. That's what I said before. You and some others just decided to take offense (and cause huge offense) because the video showed people honoring and thanking God. I don't care if you think it's "sad", as you said, or not. The Truth is that God is sad that anyone would deliberately refuse to give Him honor. Indeed, you and several others did that, quite nastily. That's very sad that you'd choose to jump in and try to bully anyone who respects God and Country.
Apparently there aren't just 2 verses of the Star Spangled Banner; there are 4. The Veteran in the video may have gotten the number of verse mixed up, by by God, he got the sentiment right when he was humble enough before God and proud enough before men to raise his hand heavenward to thank the Creator for our Nation's foundational principles. Good voice he has too. He should be asked to sing at any patriotic event in America, or any SuperBowl, or any ol' time at all! 'Twould certainly drown out some of the nastiness that comes from (some) liberal atheists' mouths.
Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
You make it sound like God is on your side. Very dangerous thinking that. It's the kind of thinking that promotes Islamic fundamentalism.
Tell me did this "Power that made your nation" sanction the butchery and ethnic cleansing of Native Americans in order to make the White Anglo Saxon Protestant nation possible? "Conquer you must", was that cause just?
Dopes it sanction the slaughter of children before they are even born? Just sayin.
No but desperate women don't sing the Star Bungled Banner before going into the abortion clinic.
All of them are not desperate. Another place where the left has enslaved the will of certain people.
Jesus too apparently. Hung with whores and dissed the Konservatives far as I recall.
Not a big fan of divorce either.
I don't think so. But an antiChrist spirit pushed to get him elected. Sometimes subtle, sometimes outright nasty. Such are the wiles of the Devil, and such is mankind's inability to resist temptation when God is rejected.
More BS. Because you cannot prove what you're claiming.
Yes, those who agree with Religious Tyranny are more often than not.
Yet, another ridiculous statement. You must be so proud.
You're just having a blast aren't you?
You are doing a marvelous job of helping me point out how hateful true progressives are towards Christians. In fact Christians are the only group that progressives openly justify mocking and using hate speech against.
Apparently, it's YOU who are having a blast.
See, you're are having a blast. Calling someone "hateful" just because they don't agree with you. You must be so proud, just like Brenda.
You lack integrity.
Hate speech? Go learn something would you.
I know all i need to know about it.
In fact as I recall you were the first one to step on this right when she first posted something about God and Country being nonsense.
It might be to you but you are in the minority.
And yes hate speech. The right gets accused of it and the left usues it as a matter of course all day long.
Now, if this isn't your ego talking, then I don't know what is.
I said the G/god was nonsense. Not country. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Or would you like me to use smaller words so you can understand?
Minority? Go look up the word. Almost anything and anyone can be classified as a minority. It's completely subjective to a person's individual perception and since most statistics are manipulated to begin with...you've no leg to stand on.
Again, you're wrong. Too bad your ego is in your way to notice it.
Of course you see things like this and it's obvious you don't know me, but that isn't about to stop your ego of saying something completely absurd.
I am not on the right or the left, and I don't agree with the independent parties either.
So...what is your next step?
No and you don't really know me either. I have just grown very tired of the open warfare on Christianity that the progressives wage and then pretend it's not there. There is actually another forum suggesting the world would be better of with less Christians and all of them are in there salivating over having more Buddists.
Go pick on some Buddists for a bit. They won't argue. We will.
How Christian of you? Jesus would be so disappointed in you. You're a walking example of the Christians in this Country who lack the understanding of their own belief...you talk the talk about a G/god, yet you fail miserably walking that walk.
And, I am sick and tired of people like you claiming to be Christian, yet don't walk the walk. Not to mention, I find it completely absurd that Christians find it okay to RULE(tyranny) other people's life.
Salivating over having more Buddhists? No one was.
If you cannot stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.
Right back at ya, Cags. It is, after all, everyone's kitchen, not just yours. Just because conservatives in general behave better and tolerate opposition better, doesn't mean we're ceding the kitchen to them.
Again Brenda you're showing your true colors and lack of integrity with this statement.
I'm for equality and equal rights. You are not and have proven it time and again.
Yes, the conservatives who carry "God Hates Fags" signs at military funerals are very well behaved. They tolerate opposition by suing anyone who challenges them.
That's true. Some women elect to terminate their pregnancies out of personal responsibility -- which I would expect would be lauded by the likes of you.
Yep... having an abortion is so pleasant. You know us lefties do it on spa days. Mani... Pedi... Abortion. It doesn't hurt or anything at all. Just a nice relaxing way to spend a day.
I shouldn't be laughing but I am, it amazes me that conservatives who endlessly harp on about their freedoms being taken whenever anyone so much as raises a speed limit but are quite content to turn around and tell people that no you don't get to decide what to do with your body.
I just always loved the representation that women just randomly have abortions then go to the mall or some such. It is a ridiculously painful experience that often lays a women up as much as having a full-term baby (sometimes longer). That's just the physical side.
The idea that it's a procedure that women take lightly and without consideration is ridiculous.
Mani, Pedi, Borti...Then confiscate the wealth of some "job creators"...
Ah, what a day.
Actions always speak louder than words!
Hypocrisy is everywhere!
Yes and the left is the most well practiced of all.
Both sides are well versed in it. Denying that only proves people will choose ignorance over learning.
Why does the American Right assume that being on the left and being Christian are mutually exclusive?
Being a progressive and being a Christian almost are. All the true progressives out themselves as being atheist. What? You were unaware of that?
So the radical band of 12 disciples were not progressive?
So Martin Luther was not progressive?
So William Wilberforce was not progressive?
So challenging orthodoxy is progressive and that's bad?
Do you think God thanks America's troops for going to an illegal war in Iraq? Do you think God thanks America's troops for going to Afganistan under the pretence of stopping terrorism? Don't get me wrong, brave men have given their lives, but for what? A fools errand perhaps.
For the few hundred American troops who died in Iraq, some 250,000 innocent civilians died in the chaos and carnage that followed. How many civilians were tortured, illegally renditioned or bombed in Afgan?
God doesn't "thank" anyone, nor does He need to. It is everyone who needs to thank God.
Wait.....so you think God HATES those troops? Is that what you are saying?
Of course not. Brenda's whole premise that you should thank God for your troops is based on the supposition that somehow God was on your side in Iraq and Afgan. God is on the side of humanity.
My supposition is based on the fact that America's Constitution and laws were and are based on the fact of the one God's sovreignty, and those troops who honor that foundation are doing good work by protecting this Nation.
There are troops who disrespect both God and Country, like the Fort Hood killer. But as a whole, our troops are honorable people. Just because there are some bad apples who've infiltrated the system doesn't mean I can't honor the Military. If you want to dismiss our entire Military and our Government as bad just because there are some bad people in it, that's your problem.
There is NO fact of this supposition. It's purely your own subjective perception, which has maintain the willful ignorant in America.
??? How was America protected by invading Iraq?
How is trying to enforce an unwanted democracy on the Afgan people doing God's work and protecting America? It's historically a nation of loosely affiliated tribes that just got with their own lives. Democracy is alien to them, and trying to force it through bombing will only breed hatred of America.
LOL That you still believe in majik.
Did god sed ter kill them afghans?.............
I believe in God. You believe in nothing. and that's what you get. Nothing.
You are one of those guys i was telling Dissapearignhead about.
... atheists in foxholes whose stories have been in feature stories and documentaries: Pat Tillman, Afghanistan war Army Ranger and football player, Hans Kasten, WWII POW leader, Phil Paulson, Vietnam Veteran and activist, Kurt Vonnegut, WWII POW and author, Ted Williams, WWII Veteran and baseball player, Ernest Hemingway, WWI Vet and author, Sherwin Wine, Founder of Humanistic Judaism ...
As a veteran, it makes me sick when right wingers use the word "patriotism" tp insult us and turn our contributions into despicable political demagoguery.
This back and forth is so disrespectful. Brenda Please close this forum. We all forgot what forum topic was about and started splashing around in the toilet.
No one has forgotten what the topic is about.
1. I don't think she has the power to close it.
2. Why would she? This is exactly what she wanted.
I don't think I have the power to close this thread. I know I don't have the willingness to try to do so. There are some really nasty threads around here that should've never been started, much less continued. Like, for instance, the one about Jesus and Hitler being the same, etc. Would you mind goin' and askin' the author of that thread to close it? 'T'would be a good service if you did.
This thread's got nothing wrong with it. Just because some people like to harrass others isn't the fault of the thread nor the author nor the patriotic participants in it. Give credit where credit is due. This thread is about giving credit to God and to our American soldiers. Whoever has a problem with that is way outta line morally, religiously, and politically.
Why are you people soooooooo obsessed with Hitler? A person of genuine faith would not be so easily shaken by such irreverence.
Brenda my love, I love sparing with you. But, we all have to make that money! It was out of line for me to suggest you close this thread. But, you can close comment on a tread, right? Actually it's still a great forum, I just started feeling creepy and disrespectful to our troops. I'm the last person on Hubpages that should try to be the morallity police.
Going back to your original post, Brenda, what exactly did you mean when you wrote: "Especially for those who haven't forgotten what God and Country is all about."
It is clear that many who read it interpreted that statement a particular way. I'd like to hear from you an explanation of exactly what you meant.
Battle Hymn of the Republic
Mine eyes have seen the glory
of the coming of the lord,
He is trampling out the vintage
where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He hath loosed his fateful lightning
of His terrible swift sword,
His truth is marching on
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on
I have seen Him in the watch fires
of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar
in the evening dews and damps,
I can read his righteous sentence
in the dim and daring lamps,
His day is marching on
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on
I have read a fiery Gospel
writ in burnished rows of steel,
"As ye deal with My contemners
so with you My grace shall deal,"
Let the Hero born of woman
crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on
He has sounded forth the trumpet
that shall never call retreat,
He is sitting out the hearts of men
before His judgment seat,
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him!
Be jubilant, my feet,
Our God is marching on
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on
The following stanzas are presented
as sung by The Mormon Tabernacle Choir in 1960
In the beauty of the lilies
Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in his bosom
that transfigures you and me,
As He died to make men holy
let us live to make men free,
His truth is marching on
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on
He is coming like the glory
of the morning on the wave,
He is wisdom to the mighty
He is honor to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool
and the soul of wrong His slave,
Our God is marching on
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah
Glory! Glory ! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on
It's not unpatriotic to disagree with a song. Also at the time this was written, the average person only had a few years of education. Some had NONE. In this day and time we should know that singing praises to a God that doesn't even exist is disturbing, and dishonest.
Well, hello. I'd like to praise the God that you say doesn't exist.
Praise the Lord! The Alpha, the Omega, the King of kings and Lord of lords! The Almighty! The Beginning and the End, the great I AM! Jehovah, Yeshua, Jesus, Jealous, the Ancient of Days! There's more, even.
And no one is saying that you're not allowed. There are plenty of people wrapped up in white coats having more than one conversation with a G/god on a daily basis.
He just said that people don't have to agree with the song.
You seem like a person of well above average intellect, yet you have no problem asserting such an ancient, implausible worldview.
I think that people like you, who have been educated, yet still assert such outdated mythological stories as if they were true, provide a great example of the willful ignorance component inherent in religion...thereby causing otherwise intelligent people to become arrogantly disingenuous.
You CAN think for yourself. I think you just refuse to...
Au contraire my fellow hubber.
Belief in the Creator is the only thing that DOES make sense, the only plausible explanation. And you can keep implying (and saying) that Believers are disingenuous or whatever, and that praising God is disturbing and dishonest or whatever, but that only shows how little you know! Your attempts at head-gaming me are ineffective. They're ineffective to others here too.
You've got it wrong, getitrite.
As I stated earlier, blatant willful ignorance. You are not stating facts, but merely making a completely dishonest statement. Belief in invisible, imaginary friends is foolish and...DOES NOT make sense. And you very well know that.
Yeah, I'll keep saying it because it's TRUE! And contrary to your inaccurate statement, I know alot. I was SAVED since I was 10. But I grew out of that nonsense when I became old enough to discern reality from pure BS.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
In other words, you absolutely reject reality, common sense, education, honesty, morality, sanity, maturity, etc. in favor of fear of a 2000 year old book of Bronze Age fairytales. It's amazing what can happen to a mind when in the grip of psychotic fear.
God Bless America!
While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.
God bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Through the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home
God bless America, My home sweet home.
Wikipedia says this:
"During a live television broadcast on the evening of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, following addresses by then-House and Senate leaders Dennis Hastert and Tom Daschle, members of the United States Congress broke out into an apparently spontaneous verse of "God Bless America" on the steps of the Capitol building in Washington, D.C."
Imagine that. Congress stood together.
And citizens stood together too, for the longest time! Because they all knew what was right, and dared NOT cross the line and deliberately divide America. Like this wonderful song by Kitty Donohoe illustrates------
When you're talking about tragedy, of course America stands as one. This is a no brainer.
One of these days she's going to make me roll my eyes so much that I have a seizure.
Brenda... Seriously I've narrowed down what it is that irks me about you. All you ever discuss or write about is religion or politics... which in your case is the same thing.
I mean I know lots of people whose lives revolve around their faith but they have... you know... other things. Husbands... kids... gardening... reading... that such. But you seriously seem to talk about nothing else.
You just seem one dimensional to me. A stereotype of sorts... with nothing to offer but your religious diatribes. If that's really how you are then that's pretty sad and not at all what Jesus wanted out of us.
I'm sure he wanted what us all to do what you do, right Melissa? You certainly do have your irons in a lotta fires, and it ain't about "husband" nor "kids" etc. You've been very vocal about all the fires you're into. LOL! So, if being "one-dimensional" is how you view Christians, then this Christian for one is highly pleased that I'm "one-dimensional"! Awesome!
So don't even keep this up. I'm not interested in your further analysis of my life. It would do you good to focus on the points of your own life where you could make some major improvements. One would be to actually realize the definition of being a Christian instead of claiming that universalism or whatever your religion is, is the same as Christianity. Your life must be very "multi-dimensional", isn't it, since you surely focus your attention onto other Christians in the non-cyber world besides me? Or are you stuck into just mocking little ol' one-dimensional me? Must be a pretty boring life. So I'm thinkin' you probably do focus that judgemental attitude of yours onto every other Christian that you encounter! Busy little bee, aren't you?
Why don't you take your own advice here and stay out of other people's life.
I'm an advocate for citizens' rights. Something you lack understanding about. Yes, you have a right to voice your words, but what you don't have a right to do is claim that what you think is proper for other people. You can only be accurate with regards to it about your life.
See, you don't know what rights are. You don't want equality or equal rights, which is what I have been saying. I am not a part of your life. I am part of HubPages.
Learn the difference.
Sure I do have the right to claim to know what's right for other people. It's a thing called Law. Every citizen has access to Laws and making Laws. Sometimes the official legislators (like Congress) have to be pushed to actually follow the Law; but all in all it is the citizens of a Nation and City that are supposed to be the initializers of the Law.
Sure, I want equal rights. I already have them. I already HAD them long ago. So did you! You're not an equal rights advocate! You're advocating for special "rights" that are totally UNequal. YOU should "learn the difference"!
Who ever said you're a "part of my life"? (I assume you mean my personal life).
You're the one who's trying to lecture ME like I'm a part of YOUR personal life. YOU need to "learn the difference"! LOL.
While you're at it, you could perhaps learn the difference between being nice and being rudely judgemental and condescending.
Actually, you don't. If you're talking about religious Law.
Man's law, then okay. Nothing more.
Untrue. You apparently, from your one-sided view think so. Much different, when it comes to reality.
Yes, they do, but not religious Laws.
Actually, Women DO NOT have equal rights. And, equality is NON-existent in America.
This is pure unadulterated BS.
Actually, incorrect again.
The religious tripe...repeat what others say, as though it means something. What a joke.
You made the inference when you told me to take your advice.
Actually, this statement shows precisely your problem. It's called "skewed perception".
I'm being nice Brenda. I could have said a lot of other things.
*Shrugs* I think he wanted us all to be deliriously happy... as I am deliriously happy then my life works for me. I don't think you are because honestly as negative as you are and as lacking in anything resembling a sense of humour I'm guessing you lack the capacity to truly enjoy anything.
Right now I'm not sure where I could possibly make any improvement in my life except a little more organization... As far as my faith goes I'm great there. I am exactly the type of Christian that I want to be... One who tries to act as much like Christ as I can. You can be the kind of Christian that tries to make everyone act like you if you like Misery loves company and all that.
I'll pass on your advice though. I quickly realized that you weren't Christ. I'm just waiting on you to realize it as well. I'll pray for you Sister. You deserve happiness too. Maybe taking up quilting would help?
Well, let's see....now that Osama Bin Ladin is dead (or at least supposedly he is dead).....why is there a great divide now?
I'll tell you why. It's because in the meantime the Left got tired of fighting and/or pretending to fight the battle against terrorism and decided to insert their own battle into American politics. Obama agged that on. Effectively dividing Americans on the basis of several issues. Issues that had already been resolved. Many of them did so deliberately, and with malice.
Whatever, Cags. It shouldn't take a tragedy like 9/11 to cause
Americans to be united. Some people just want to whine and be the center of attention, so they push their divisive agendas and they don't care if they cause major chaos. Those who are responsible for it will someday be held to account, whether in this life or the next.
Yes really Brenda. America is never divided when tragedy hits the Nation and thousands of lives are lost. To say otherwise, is to be in denial.
The divide has returned to what it was before hand- religious tyranny.
You can try, but it will escape you.
No. Politics has moved on and back to it's usual bag of tricks.
There are plenty of issues in this Country brought on by the religious folk who want to lay claim to telling other people what to do with their life. Again, it's called religious tyranny. The fact you don't know you place in society is one of the biggest problems. If you knew your place in society, then equality and equal rights would be the main concern. But, with you it's not. Shame on you.
The Gettysburg Address
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
From the Reverend Buffet:
I really do appreciate the fact you're sittin here
Your voice sounds so wonderful
But yer face don't look too clear
So bar maid bring a pitcher, another round o brew
Honey, why don't we get drunk and screw
Why don't we get drunk and screw
I just bought a water bed, it's filled up for me and you
They say you are a snuff queen
Honey I don't think that's true
So, why don't we get drunk and screw
-- spoken: pick it coral reefers, here we go...
Why don't we get drunk and screw
I just bought a waterbed it's filled up for me and you
They say you are a snuff queen
Honey I don't think that's true
So why don't we get drunk and screw
Yeah, now baby I say, (lord!)
Why don't we get drunk and screw
Brings tears to my eyes...
Right on, Brenda Durham. Not only are your comments right on, I think you are right with God. Unfortunately, I could not post on your thread until now because I was banned.
I am a combat veteran and I say “Thanks to God for our patriotic military personnel!” and “God bless America!”
Now, since I am one who was doing the fighting, I should have the right to say what I was fighting for, ‘eh? Freedom? Sure. Among other things, the freedom for Americans to choose God, or not.
So you atheists, I was fighting for your freedom to be an atheist the way I figure it. What has an atheist done for me, lately? I mean, other than falsely accuse me of a crime and play “report monkey” and get me banned from the forums.
Now you atheists might ask, “What has Brenda Durham done for you lately?” Why, I bet Brenda, even though she didn’t know me at the time, prayed for God to bless our military and to keep us safe. Personally, I am thankful for her prayers and ones like her.
911 was mentioned. My brother is an attorney and had an office in one of the towers. I didn’t hear word until about 10 hours after I saw the towers blow up he was okay. You damn better believe I was praying for him and others. And you damn better believe I thanked God for the blessings he bestowed upon me and my family, even more vociferously.
Some of the responses on this thread are pathetic. I’m just sayin’.
Wow, I'm so glad you're able to join the conversation! Indeed I did pray for our Military and thank God for them before, during, and after 9/11. It's wonderful to know that there are determined, patriotic people like you in our Military; thank you for your service to America!
And you're right---you were fighting for the freedom of all Americans, including the atheists. Their and our very lives depend upon those like you who had the courage to defend our shores and our homes.
P.S. You have some great hubs. The one about "Does the Bible condone rape" is hugely explanatory and well-researched and spot-ON. As are the others I've read. I hope lots of people read them; they'll learn a lot and find a hub author (you) who has no problem tellin' it like it is and backing it up with the Word of God (to the chagrin of the naysayers, I will add).
Too bad the religious folk don't use this same mentality when electing officials to office.
We may not agree on much, but we do agree on is your bravery for fighting for everyones freedom. All I can say is you are not alone in the fight for freedom. That fight has little to do with religion and everything to do with religion.
So, Thank you and all Soldiers in the fight for freedom.
Which statement, exactly? You have 45,417 statements (posts).
WOW! You responded to my post which quoted something said from someone else.
Did you lose track that easily? If so, then you're completely lost and my previous statement to you would be 100% accurate.
You're the one who is out to lunch.
I know you don't know much about proms.
I'll be enlightening you about that soon.
Just like a good Christian who talks the talk and doesn't walk the walk. If I was able to be offended, then your above statement would/could be construed as a personal attack. But, since I don't get offended, it's nothing more than foolishness wrapped up in words and actions.
And, I'm pretty sure you don't know much about anything. But, that doesn't stop me from educating you.
Not likely. You don't have the ability.
Yeah, I figured you for a report monkey too.
So I said you're out to lunch and it's a personal attack. Okay, well you're out to dinner then. I don't know whether it's lunch or dinner time where you are.
I know more about proms than you do. Bet me. Well, the proof will be in the pudding soon.
But let's try to stay on the topic of this thread. What was the point of your post, exactly, as I previously asked?
I know you had some issue about "God Bless America" being sung right after 911. But it is still sung at baseball games today. That Irish tenor does a great job at Yankee Stadium. Brings tears to one's eyes.
If you're interested, yes I do report people for making offending statements on other people. Yes, I stand up for other people, just like you. Yes, I will admit you're a reason I have my freedom and I have no problem with acknowledging that.
You seem to like to bait people? Now, how Christian is that? And, you wonder why I have a problem with you and your actions. Do you realize the level of character you're displaying for all your fellow Christians? I guess the next thing to look at would be all of those who are agreeing with you and your actions, and instantly I can see their level of character as well.
Your post is completely meaningless to me because you choose to use a lower level of character in your actions. You should be ashamed of yourself and see how you are disgracing your own religion and it's teachings, not to mention the honor in which usually goes with the uniform.
My lower level of character? Personal attack! Consider yourself reported! Oh yeah. I should be ashamed of myself? Another personal attack! Dude, you are so reported.
You and your 45,424 posts make me want to regurgitate. And I'm not talking about repeating anything you said.
I've never seen anybody who could say so little in so many posts.
This is the 3rd time I've asked you. What was your point, exactly?
I'd like to get back to the topic of this thread, thanking God for our patriotic military personnel.
I know one thing. I wouldn't want your likes in a foxhole with me. Talk about friendly fire. Whoa, Nellie. I'm talking about cooking up some hot dogs here and sharing a meal with my new buddy. I don't want you reporting me to Mama (HubPages) for threatening to kill you like Rad Man did.
I have a right to express myself in this manner, due to the fact that I am only pointing out what your actions have done. Yet, you're attempting to consider it as an attack? You baited me.
You don't have to talk at all. Just listen. Something which you apparently have refused to do to begin with.
So little? That's funny. You're a keeper. You could be a comedian, however, I doubt it. Btw- was that yet another attempt to bait me? Hmmm... your actions show you have an ego problem, which isn't surprising you're in the military. What you don't realize, or haven't yet is all I am doing is pointing out your actions. You don't have to do anything and when you do, you make things worse for yourself. Again, WAKE UP!
And, I told you. If you used the same mentality in the originally quoted statement which started this, when you elect your officials to office(thinking about other people- such as protecting freedom), then maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we're in as a Nation.
Christians and everyone else who votes, elect the officials. However, there's a problem. You vote on belief, this includes your religious beliefs. Using your religious beliefs to put other people into offices of power and control over society. That's walking "stupidity in motion" foolishness and willful ignorance.
All in all, when people vote either on religious beliefs or race, they are attempting to manipulate the government and it's place. Government is for the protection of the people. Not some of them, but ALL of them. Doing what is in the best interest of society is what matters most.
Every religious person I have met, are a bigot and they practice it. Why? Because they read a religious book which teaches it. There are very FEW Christians in this world versus the numbers who 'CLAIM' to be Christian.
It has apparently escaped you that your actions do have a consequence and a reaction. That reaction is going to be from other people who determine whether or not, your actions are moral according to their own measurement. It cannot be avoided. If you truly understood Jesus' teachings, you wouldn't be baiting me.
The topic of the this thread? As I said in my first post.
I baited you? What are you, a fish?
You said: "your actions show you have an ego problem, which isn't surprising you're in the military."
Personal attack! Not against me. Against the Marines, the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, and . . .
I am not in the military. I was in the military. I'm a veteran, not an active serviceman, or woman. Actually, I'm at the VFW at this very moment on my laptop while watching the Yankee game which is 6-3 in favor of the Evil Empire ( the Irish tenor won't be signing "God Bless America" tonight since the game is in Detroit) with a bunch of VFWs (Veterans of Foreign Wars) looking over my shoulder reading what you said and getting very angry.
I will try and keep these rowdies with an ego problem at bay (especially the one who is presently in the military, just back from Iraq, home on leave).
But why do you think those in the military have an ego problem? Just curious.
It is against forum rules to bait other people. If you don't know the rules, then I suggest you read them.
Dude, I have a fishing license.
Get back to answering questions.
Why do you think those in the military have an ego problem?
And after you answer that, is having an ego a good or bad thing, when it come to the military?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Off topic. Didn't you read the rules as I suggested?
Off topic yet again. Did you tell me to get back on topic?
I'm sure there is a lot you want to know. And, I've a lot to offer.
Really. And, you know this how exactly? Did you speak with a G/god lately? And, if you did, then I suggest you see someone about that. Considering, I'm not interested in nonsense.
If you have a rational reason for informing me that I have to Thank your nonsensical G/god. Then, I'm all ears.
I rather say Thank you to YOU, but I've no rhyme or reason to say Thank You to a G/god other people think exists.
Sorry as an aside I just wanted to say that this G/god thing is really weird. Can't decide whether I will offend religious people if I don't capitalize and atheists and myself if I do so I will do both
Why do you think people in the military have an ego problem, Cagsil?
You said it and I've asked you why you said it several times.
Is it the uniform?
Or the gun?
Or just what?
C'mon, we wanna know.
Oh Jesus! I think that people in the military have an ego problem and I frigging love the armed forces.
Basic training is designed to give those who DONT have an ego problem an ego problem. Its necessary to do their jobs... now get over it.
Because, they carry an air about them that steams ego, not confidence. They have confidence, but many think they are above others because of their duty served.
They expect respect because they served, and that is ego. Just because you protect this Nation, doesn't grant you the ability to expect respect. Plenty of people serve and never go to War to protect this country.
Not to mention, I'm not too fond of the egotistical twits running this country, which send you and other military personnel off to die somewhere. Am I glad you made your choice to enter the military? Sure and I have acknowledged that and even said Thank you.
Standing a post here in America for the fictional thing we call Government, defending an ideology which isn't supported by those in Government. Government isn't interested in doing what is best for this country. If they did, then we wouldn't have a problem with poverty or homelessness. And, if you don't know why poverty happens, then learn why. If you don't know why homelessness happens, then go get informed.
The government knows why poverty and homelessness happens, yet they CHOOSE to do nothing about it.
What you think you are defending, as of late, as been a government bent on tyranny.
You know, you need to pipe down. You're probably "that guy" that everybody at the VFW wishes would finally go home.
I'm a former Marine and I don't feel any kind of personal attack from anybody here. The only attacking is by the "Christians" that believe anyone who doesn't belief in God is wrong or a "lefty". What's up with that?
Personally I believe any true Christian probably stays out of the military because they don't want to kill anyone regardless of their religious beliefs. I don't fight for God and I don't fight for Christians. I defend American's!
I'll tell you what type of Christian joins the military though. It's the far right bible thumper that believes God somehow only loves and cares about the United States. That somehow we as a country have garnered the All-Mighties attention and he will help us defeat all enemies; all enemies meaning non-christian. The far right Christian is the most hateful, bigoted, and selfish being on this planet. How in the world could any God embrace such a being. But even these individuals that hide behind their religion deserve defending by those of us wearing the uniform. Just do me one favor, don't push your religion on those of us that don't want it.
A true Christian wouldn't have to defend their Christianity. It's like the guy who brags about being a sniper in Vietnam or claims to be a member of Seal Team 6. You know they're full of it simply because they're talkingabout it. Get it!
Well said! Good causes don't always have to include religion to be worthwhile endeavors. Nor do the soldiers have to be of one faith to fight with those of other similar beliefs. I'm sorry some have to think this is indeed the case, though.
Actually, I’m the guy at the VFW who everybody wants to talk to. For advice on insurance issues, heath care, and so forth. I wrote a hub about the military, mostly from a financial perspective. Of course I give them the thumbs down on Obamacare. I see not only are you an atheist, you are an Obama supporter.
Apparently you weren’t following the conversation very well, bogusmoss. I am glad you said “I don’t feel any kind of personal attack from here.” Neither do I. Cagsil is the one whining about personal attacks. I’m the one who just came off of a 30-day ban for personal attacks I allegedly made, which I proved was baloney in another hub I wrote. I also expressed my disgust with all the sniveling about personal attacks and the report monkeys in that hub.
Your statement that “Personally I believe any true Christian probably stays out of the military because they don’t want to kill anyone regardless of their religious beliefs” is ridiculous. Is that really what you meant to say? I’ll give you a chance to revise it before I rip it to shreds.
And you say “A true Christian wouldn’t have to defend their Christianity.” Another absurd statement. I don’t have to defend my Christianity for the benefit of someone like Brenda Durham. She knows the score. I’m more concerned about someone who actually might believe that the nonsense spouted by atheists in these forums has much credibility.
Was your “sniper in Vietnam” directed at me or a general comment?
I just returned yesterday from a 4 week ban too, so not only believers are banned for their statements here. I'm agnostic, not atheist, so we all get banned for silly things here. This site is dominated by women, staff included, but the majority of those banned are males, as far as I can tell.
If you don't want to get banned, then become an Elite. They are protected from such here as been proven on several occasions. But then you have to wear the "E" on your avatar. Not a good trade off in my opinion.
Elite! E! Where do I get this E? I need that E!
You apply for it! As far as I can tell, there are no special abilities required.
Sounds like a consumer. I want it, I want it. ha ha I must have this E.
I've had my share of bans too Randy and as far as I can tell I'm at least vaguely female.
THIS I am interested in, because it's something I have a hard time wrapping my little mind around. Does it say in the bible somewhere "Do not kill, unless your country asks you to, then kill as many as possible, but when you get home no more killing"? Go ahead rip it to shreds. I'd like to hear/read your argument.
So, you tell your buddies to join USAA for all their financial matters then you regurgitate everything FOX so-called news tells you about the Affordable Care Act. Earlier you stated that you were regurgitating in more of a projectile vomiting sort of way. What I mean now is regurgitation in the form of repeating what you hear from Fox like a good little sheep. So how does it feel to lead your troops down the wrong path and have them vote against their own best interests? Great leadership there Romney, I mean BLACKANDGOLD. By the way, as a non-defending Christian how can you support a man whose entire family line once believed in multiple wives? How can you support his religion when most Christians believe that Mormonism isn’t true Christianity at all? How can you abandon your religion just because you don’t want President Obama back for a second term? I’ll tell you why, your religion says it’s okay to hate as long as it’s for the good of the religion. Right? I do support President Obama and if you had any military bearing in your body you would address him as such. He isn’t perfect but he is a far cry better than Romney will ever be and what President Bush was.
I do believe true Christians stay out of the fight unless they have some misconception about what they are doing. I’ve met plenty in my time and many of them were in it to go over and kill Muslims. This was the case in the 90’s and it is the case now. This isn’t the Crusades you know. Even back then, what right did the Christians have in converting anybody? But that’s a different story. But this false pretense of you or Debbie praying for the troops is BOGUS. You are only praying for one certain group and it doesn’t include many of the minorities that serve and have given their lives in defense of this country. The irony is that religious extremists such as what exists on the far right are the minority.
You don’t have to defend your Christianity, this is true. But you are about to because you just can’t help it.
That's something we all need to remember; don't confuse what a true Christian is, with the loud mouthed mental patients claiming to be Christians.
It's all about Humility and Grace:
Not bad for somebody who has just returned from a ban!
I love it, a personal attack in a post in which the person said they reported a personal attack.
Just another Friday night in the forums
Yo Cags! I finally finished my 4 week ban today. Still think the raffle is a bad idea?
And they gave me back my other accolades too. I'm once again all that!
Well, seems you've angered the VFW bunch now, Cags! "They're" all agin ye now. Ha!
"He either infiltrated the Military to start with, or else he turned traitor afterward. Either way, he wasn't patriotic; he killed some of his fellow soldiers."
Did you or any of your friends with you serve in combat? Is it true what combat veterans say about No Athiest are in foxholes?
Have any of you seen a:
GAY STRIAGHT BLACK WHITE MUSLIM CHRISTIAN BUDDIST ATHIEST AGNOSTIC FEMALE
fight/die to save their fellow Soldier?
Is a Soldier on a battlefield thinking about God and Country; or that girl or guy next to them, that might help them get home alive?
Primitive men have always believed there was some god or another on their side, even when they lost. It's difficult for me to fathom all soldiers in battle are true believers, though. If that were the case, there would be no wars.
I need you all to do the math here! Reagan Bush1 and bush2 lead us into war on useles defenseless countries for the profit it would bring to them and their party and the businesses that profit from war. During these distractions; billions of dollars were "lost" and never accounted for! To this day I have to ask the American People; what is Grenada? Why did we attack a defenseless useless Iraq twice? And why did billions of dollar mysteriously disappear every time the Republicans lead us into needless war?
And why is this cult that calls themselves Christians always right in the middle of voting Republicans into office and conveniently trying to tell our Soldiers "God is on their side" when they're sending these Soldiers to their death for nothing but a buck?
Because they believe what they are told. Most have been indoctrinated since early childhood to never doubt the bible or god. The majority are afraid to even check out the actual beginnings and editing of their guidebook nor who actually put it together for them.
Religion is control, and politics and big business uses it to have their way with the world.
You know it strikes me from some of these posts that this is the most horrible nation on earth.
Why do we continue to live here?
Sounds like you have some decisions to make. Good luck, and choose wisely...
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