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Is there any scientific evidence for the existence of god?

  1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
    IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago

    If you have any evidence please present it.

    1. Barbara Kay profile image84
      Barbara Kayposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I think you need to just look around you on a beautiful summer's day. Look at the blue sky, the flowers and the trees and just tell me all of this just happened. Evolution wouldn't have made everything so beautiful.
      The human body is so complex that it couldn't have just evolved either. If we evolved from apes, how could their complex bodies have just happened?

      1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
        IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I would need more than a subjective view and a teleological argument such as the watchmaker fallacy.

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          For one thing, not keeping your mind set on "fallacies" would be a big help. God does want us to have faith, but it's not necessary to simply decide in your mind "By golly, I will have faith!" God does provide proofs, if you look at them.

          The process of looking at the world and the universe and seeing the wonder of creation actually has a name, it's called "Philosophical Theology" which also includes the study of what man knows throughout the centuries. Before the (relatively) recent emphasis on specializations, education used to include this (Thomas Jefferson, for instance, made a study of moral teachers throughout the centures.) Not surprisingly, there also used to be more "renaissance men."

          What a lot of atheists, in my experience, want is a "burning bush." Not always literally that, but something like it, something where they think they will finally be forced to say, "There is no scientific explanation for that, it must be God." But also in my experience, the vast majority of people who seem to believe that if they were confronted with something like that, they would believe would, in fact, never accept it. They would spend their lives believing that there's a "scientific" explanation for it and spare no effort to find it. I'm not putting down the scientific mindset, it's a valuable tool and many believers possess it. Critical thinking is a gift from God and it's not developed nearly enough in many people. What I am in disagreement with is the adamantine contention that if it's not repeatable in a laboratory, it's not true. "If I can't see it, it doesn't exist." Don't take  that to mean that I believe we really could turn lead into gold. What I'm saying is that God doesn't always work like that.

          But there are the large number of people whose lives have been changed because of Him. The number is too great to simply blow it off as a lack of education, or an unwillingness to engage critical thinking. In many cases it's exactly the opposite. But the same mindset that decides if you can't see it, it doesn't exist, also often decides that anybody who believes in God must be an uneducated dolt, a pitiful sub-sub-epsilon unable and unwilling to look at the hard realities and simply accept what is real. And I've engaged with someone recently who did say, in so many words, that if you're NOT an atheist then you ARE unwilling and unable to use your brain. I also read a post by a lady who said, again in so many words, that she's decided that anybody who believes in God must be uneducated and unintelligent.

          Summation: The proof is certainly out there, but God does not give it the way we demand it.

          1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
            IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Lol don't keep my mind set on fallacy? you mean the thing that is an an error in reasoning that renders an argument logically invalid? Yeah thats good advice. I would like to know what and where this proof is you are talking about."The proof is certainly out there, but God does not give it the way we demand it."

            1. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You missed entirely what I said, didn't you?

              I mean that deciding that God is a fallacy is wrong. But that's not all I said.

              Hint: I gave a hint at one of the proofs I was talking about in the post.

              1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
                IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Because what you were saying was filled with fallacy and I never said God was a fallacy. Also, I never saw a hint for any valid proof.

          2. CurtisJ75 profile image61
            CurtisJ75posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The part where Chris said God has changed a lot of people's lives is probably the best way to describe the proof of God - for those who accept being imperfect and that Jesus, yes Jesus is the only perfect human being ever to live on earth, is the only one true path to not just "going to Heaven", but an awakening, that is a part of us all - it's the 20-22 grams that leaves only the human body when we die, no weight change or loss happens when animals die.

            This is scientific proof - and your individuality, your fingerprints - there aren't 20,000 other "you's" because He took the time to make everyone unique.
            That's a more physical proof - but as I can testify that I thought those things were weak, a true unbeliever, until 21 yrs old. I hated whiny little Christians until finding the strongest, yet most kind, "hand" on my shoulder - now at 37, I can only say that Christians will be blamed for not agreeing with the rest of the religions, of which there about 20,000 - and the others all lead to "that better place"- almost. Almost, is where even after death He'll give you that chance. Not all religions look up, some lead you to hell like it's cool - I thought it was - even after I felt the devil's icy fingers rake over me at 15yrs-old - contemplating the pentagram on a Motley record., well it took six years and no person, place, or thing I did, or was done externally - spoke eternal life into me, because I asked.

            Now at 37 - He's shown me so many truths - the fragility of our existence is the biggest. So when Chris said How God has changed people's lives - it means they have undeniable proof, like me, because those who spend their life changing to reach His acceptance is impossible (like monks), as it died with Christ. We can't "be good" to get there, all because He knows everything human, finalizing it on the cross and then some - it's only until that one third of you becomes alive to Him, that you feel a constant knowledge of right and wrong ...and the right is always harder..can any guy say their gut feeling, or women say their intuition was ever wrong? It'z not cuz it's His guidance on Earth.
            And the real reason He doesn't show Himself to us is because our bodies cannot handle the Glory and Power, the absence of darkness or fear...anyway - I didn't mean to get long-winded - but can anyone agree that when you know something even more than your sight tells you - it's difficult to keep it to just a sentence!!LOL

            ..and to post 33 right there - almost got me to say your name - pretty tricky!! One day something will happen that not even adrenaline can explain to you, and your questions will get answered.

          3. Theresa Cox profile image59
            Theresa Coxposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I did find proof of Dog. I stepped in it in my backyard.

      2. janesix profile image59
        janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Funny how the only people who (constantly) claim humans evolved from apes are the religious who don't believe in evolution.

      3. autumn18 profile image68
        autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Why couldn't it have just happened? What makes it so impossible that just because it's beautiful and/or complex it couldn't have evolved without the help of a creator? I respect your opinion, I don't see how it's evidence though.

        1. A Thousand Words profile image81
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Agreed.

      4. cascoly profile image59
        cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        ??? true, nothing 'just happened' - it's been a long evolutionary process, but the fact that you can't understand how complex forms arise from chaos doesn't mean it didnt happen

        this is the common creationist argument from incredulity - "Gee, i cant see how this could happen.  Therefore, god did it!"

      5. Elijah7 profile image60
        Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Amen Barbara Kay - 100% True..

        What EVERYONE in this forum and other forums likewise are MISSING, is that is NOT ABOUT "winning an argument".

        This is TRUTH vs fiction. FACT vs imaginative theories.


        cascoly - My Watch, my Computer, my Telephone and the Jets i fly around the planet in - ALL APPEARED BY CHANCE - they just SHOWED UP ONE DAY....

        No-one designed them; no one made them; they just sort of "AROSE FROM THE CHAOS".

        REALITY CHECK : Our eyes ON THEIR OWN, make a 777 Jet look like a PIN-HEAD, by structural, functional and fully integrated DESIGNED & CREATED Purpose, System and Capacity - AMEN

        THIS ONE LITTLE POST IS ALL THE PROOF OF GOD YOU WILL EVER NEED..With Love - AMEN

        Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ???????

        In JESUS' Holy Name - AMEN

        John 1 : 1 - 3

        In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

        The same was in the beginning with God.

        All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."


        AMEN and AMEN


        http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6709682_f248.jpg

        1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
          IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You have failed to state anything, and please elaborate on why you think Barbara Kay's status was  "100% true".

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Elijah7 has been banned from hubpages. bye bye.

            1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
              IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Lol his god can't help him now.

            2. Randy Godwin profile image95
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Praise Moe!  lol

                                                 http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

    2. Dubuquedogtrainer profile image62
      Dubuquedogtrainerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." (Romans 1:20)

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I hope you realize that verse is based on mysticism? Mysticism happens when one is not being honest with themselves.

        Christianity and most world religions are mystic based.

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's certainly true that there is mysticism in almost all religions, and Christianity is no exception. The God who died, the God who came as a man, the Spirit who lives in you, God raised from the dead. There is unquestionably mysticism in Christianity.

          But it's not self-contradictory to say that God is science. God created the universe, therefor He created all the laws and rules that govern how the universe operates. It would also explain why there are so few miracles, because only God can bend the rules He put in place. And science started as an exploration of the universe God created, in the west almost all the early scientists (including Francis Bacon, who codified the scientific process) were believers. They fully understood that there are rules to how the world works and that God put those rules in place.

          1. cascoly profile image59
            cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            but 'science' is an intellectual construct of man to explain how the world works - 'science' is not god in any sense that god-believers proclaim, since science  cannot be affected by wishful thinking [aka prayer]

            1. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Which is exactly why scientists who are also believers use the scientific method, instead of dumping a bunch of stuff in a pot and praying for God to show them something.

              Science is the attempt and the desire to know how the world works. It doesn't contradict the Bible.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So you believe the flood actually occurred as told in the bible?


                                                      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

                1. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Um, what does that have to do with what I said?

                  I've been clear about what I believe, Randy. I don't hide it. I think you already know whether I believe the Flood Story or not. But that doesn't mean that God hasn't set up rules about how the world works when He's not directly intervening, and it's not wrong for humans to try to figure out what those rules are.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm really trying to understand how an otherwise intelligent person could possibly believe the things you do, Chris.  Honestly, I try to see your viewpoint as I think you are a nice person.  I don't really care which god you believe in, but I've always been a curious person and crave knowledge like a preacher craves a buffet.

                    I've read well over ten thousand books in my long life, about many different subjects and this includes religions of all sorts.  But science has done more for my understanding of both man and this world we live on than anything else.  it answers questions with plain facts one can see and understand.

                    Religions, on the other hand, are basically the same no matter the name or particular god starring in the cult.  Just like your favorite god, they are all invisible and are only heard in one's head.  Have you ever wondered why your god is so similar to the others?  You'd think he would not want to be like the other gods and hide from sight, but no, same characteristics.  And isn't there always a bad guy gods are trying to defeat? 

                    So the bottom line is, your god is no better than any one of thousands in our worlds history.  And you are no different than those who worshiped Zeus or Odin, or any of the multitude of gods invented by man.  You all believe your god is listening to you. I'll bet you think those who worshiped the Greek and Roman gods were foolish, when their faith was just as strong as yours, and perhaps much stronger.  I feel the same about their beliefs as I do yours, if that is any consolation to you.  smile

                                                     http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

                2. 60
                  IdeasAboundingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Since I apparently can't reply any further down, I'm going to do it here.

                  Your response is... "been there, done that?" Did you even read the article? I mean, don't get me wrong. I've become accustomed to the "arrogant atheist who dismisses anything a creationist says regardless of evidence" routine, but I was actually hoping you might take off that hat for this discussion.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I am familiar with the author of this article, Preston.  He ticks of both scientists and Young Earth creationists alike.  A funny guy, no doubt.  Not wasting my time on this garbage even though he isn't nearly as nutty as most creationists.

                    And I'm agnostic, not atheist.

                                                          http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

              2. cascoly profile image59
                cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                that's one of the funniest things i've seen in  a LONG time - SCIENCE contradicts the bible on almost every page - the bible os riddled with contradictions and inaccuracies, not to mention scientific ignorance.

                we have yet to see you [or your fundamentaslist fellow travelers]   aCTUALLY NAME  THESE ALLEGED SCIENTISTS WHO ARE ALSO BELIEVERS and provide refeneces to the peer reviewed journals that have published their research.  the bible remains   worthless as a scientific source.  it does have some amusing stories to tell

                1. 60
                  IdeasAboundingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Care to substantiate your claims that "Science contradicts the Bible on almost every page?" I would be more than happy to discuss this with you.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Why do you believers hide behind a fake name if god is on your side?  I find this very funny as you guys should be proud to vouch for your invisible diety and he would surely protect you from us evil humans, right?  lol

                    Be proud of your standing up for whichever supernatural deity you choose, whether it be Zeus, Allah, Jehovah, or the Easter Bunny.  Personally, my god Moe would kick the other god's butts.  Or perhaps we should have a god contest to see which is the most powerful.  Are you in?  lol


                                                           http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

    3. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      First you have to define scientific evidence.

      a) In science, you have to be able to reproduce the conditions.
      b) You have to be able to observe the conditions.
      c) You have to be able to prove that there are no other factors involved.

      Anything where this cannot be done, cannot be proven by science.

    4. Elijah7 profile image60
      Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Noah's Ark HAS BEEN FOUND...

      Scientifically PROVEN - took some TWENTY YEARS to complete The Work.

      A Hub IS UP already - GO CHECK IT OUT...Here's a PHOTO from the Hub :

      (click my name - scroll down and visit to SEE - Amen)


      hub/THE-REAL-NOAHS-ARK-THE-REAL-TRUTH-AND-WHY-ITS-TIME-TO-TELL

      Micah 5 : 2
      "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

      A PRESERVED NOAH'S ARK MAIN HULL RIB TIMBER IN THE PICTURE BELOW - AMEN 


      http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6708651_f248.jpg

      1. Paul Wingert profile image79
        Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        :LOL:

    5. mr williams profile image81
      mr williamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Lol

    6. twosheds1 profile image59
      twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Short answer: no. Long answer, though I suspect you know all this: in order for something to be evidence of a god's existence, we'd have to agree on what evidence for god would entail, and no one can agree on that. People can't even agree on what god is, and that's just the believers. So first you'd have to agree on what you mean by "god" (a physical being, for example, or a non-physical being existing outside the bounds of time & space), then agree on what would constitue evidence for that god, and then set out to find it.

      Good luck with that.

      Lawrence Krauss & William Lane Craig had a debate a few years ago entitled "Is There Evidence for God" or something like that. It's on YouTube if you're interested.

    7. TJenkins602 profile image74
      TJenkins602posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with what twosheds1 says.

      As far as experiential evidence. My life has taken a turn for the wierdest. I've experienced so much BS that there just has to be some God out there, LOL!!! Otherwise, life would make just a little more sense. LOL!

    8. Theresa Cox profile image59
      Theresa Coxposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No scientific evidence proving the existence God. Or did you mean Dog? Because there is abundant scientific evidence pointing to the existence of Dog.

  2. 0
    Emile Rposted 4 years ago

    Please provide scientific evidence that proves there is no God.

    The search for God doesn't fall into the realm of science.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why not? It would open my eyes and yours.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'm all for proof. But, isn't science geared toward studying the physical world? Where would you start the experiment? I guess someone would first have to get a handle on what, exactly, God is.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Science has no interest in God, but if they stumbled onto something like the arc. I'd pay attention. I paid attention when they dated the shroud of Turin. My attention was wasted.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, I think the shroud is a curiosity. I'd love to view that and the body of Saint Bernadette (I think that's her name), the chamber at the foot of the sphinx, etc etc.

            The ark would be a find. What would we do if we found it and it contained a stone tablet and a jar of manna?

            I honestly think, if God exists in any manner, proof is hidden for a reason. The only reason I can think is that proof would inhibit our curiosity. So, to me, atheism and agnosticism would be on the rise for a very good reason. I don't think it could be hidden so that we could be dragged along by religion with a ring in our nose.

            I know you think we are just another animal, and I think that is true on one level. But, we are different from the other animals and life is somehow interconnected. That interconnection has to be aware of the process, on some level. Once we've peeled all of the layers down to its most basic level we might get a handle on this idea called God.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Why would he hide himself if all he wants is worship? Doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't need to see him to believe in him, just give me something that shows me that humans don't abide by the same laws of nature that other animals do. We are smart and we do communicated, but so are elephants. We do have the ability to share knowledge, so we can learn from one another, that is unique perhaps, but we are like any other animal. A little different and a little the same from each other. We are subjected to the same diseases and parasites as any other animal and we are not at the top of the food chain.

              If someone had statistics that proved over and over again that people who pray, don't get cancer I'd pay attention.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                All gods hide themselves. They have to, it's in the god rulebook.  Funny how the christian god has the same routine of all of the other multitudes of gods throughout history.  Not one of them cares to make themselves known to humans.  You'd think the REAL god would not want to appear the same as the false ones, wouldn't you?  Not very original of him!  yikes


                                                            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I JUST WANT TO SEE ONE!!!! and not in a dream, that doesn't count, and I can't be the only one who see him, and I have to catch him on camera. Ah crap, if I saw God I'm be delusional.

              2. A Thousand Words profile image81
                A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Indeed. But if they are "healed" (by going to the doctor, and eating healthy, etc, mind you) "thank God He is good!" If they aren't healed, "it wasn't in His will, but God is still good!" Those ideas don't coincide well with each other, but, hey. It's much easier to live life when you think somebody's got your best interests in mind.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It is easier to believe. It sure is easier. I wish there were a God looking out for us, but a wish doesn't make it so. I prefer reality.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Exactly. And it is wishful thinking that muddies the water. Any attempt to 'find God' begins with the flawed premise created by wishful thinking. We do need to throw the baby out with the bath water. All of it is built on false hopes and speculation.

                  2. A Thousand Words profile image81
                    A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I prefer my former delusion, actually. I just can't believe it anymore, because of reality. It sucks sometimes. But I accept it. More and more I'm starting to think that it's quite a sufficient survival tactic. To believe in such ideas makes it easier for people to live their lives in other areas. But, with all it's pleasantries, it wasn't truth. But I think I'd be happier believing it. They say ignorance is bliss. i think they were right.

                  3. kerryg profile image87
                    kerrygposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah, that was the revelation that led me from being simply non-religious to identifying as agnostic (leaning atheist).

                    I'm not particularly afraid of death myself, but I find the idea of losing loved ones such as my parents and never seeing them again unimaginably painful. Therefore, I badly want there to be an afterlife. Unfortunately, wishful thinking can't make something a reality, and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I'm forced to conclude that wishful thinking is all I've got.

              3. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I agree, but I think 'God' has been misdefined, misused and abused. Something drives belief, but I think religion abuses it a soon as someone becomes aware of it. We have to look at things at their most basic level. Stripped of dogma, void of personal interpretation and in its purest and most basic form.

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree 100%    BUT to strip ourselves of 1600 years of misinterpretation and misconceptions based upon those misinterpretations is a very difficult thing to do, even after we are incline to do so.
                     WHERE in scripture would we begin this procedute, if not prophesy?

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Ok jerami, we might not be in as much agreement as you think. Religious texts need to be set aside. Imo.

            2. A Thousand Words profile image81
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sure, if there's no fiery pit of hell involved, I guess playing games with people's lives wouldn't be so heinous.

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I don't think we'd ever find a god with that power, or desire.

                1. A Thousand Words profile image81
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, you'd hope so. But i think you're assuming that there is some kind of true justice and love out there if a deity is real. He could indeed be the sadistic, twisted God of the Bible. Or it could be more like how the Eastern see it. To me it makes more sense. But in that case, "God" doesn't take sides. It just is, and we are all a part of it. We can choose how we want to live our lives, and there are suggested (not imposed) guidelines for living it in a way that's beneficial to us and/or those around us.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The only assumption I make is that there may be an awareness of us, on some other level. God, as defined in the monotheistic religions, doesn't make any sense to me. I don't believe such a being as Christianity or Islam wants us to envision would have tolerated the human race long enough for anyone to ponder what it was.

          2. Elijah7 profile image60
            Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            RAD MAN ... Ark found man..go check it out...you know where....

            † Blessings to you...†


            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6709700_f248.jpg

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I've looked into this a long time ago. Notice in the picture all the scientist studying your pill of dirt? Do you really think you could get 2 of every known animal onto a boat half the size of a modern day cruise ship. Just two of the largest dinosaurs would take up the whole boat and then after the flood the gene pool would be too weak for survival. Just like this story.

              1. Elijah7 profile image60
                Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hey Rad - Got NEWS for you : The class of animals that human beings belong to, the mammals, includes close to 5,000 species. The number of birds is over 15,000. There are more than 3,000 kinds of snakes, and 300 kinds of turtles.

                Dinos start out SMALL and then GROW - Durrr....

                So, lets just up the volume a tad : 7,000 mammals, most of which are quite small. 20,000 birds. (97% tiny) 5,000 snakes and 500 land turtles.

                Insects survive floods; so do sea creatures, microbes and worms.

                All flora come from seeds - these survive big nasty floods also.

                The Ark was built using the Royal Egyptian Cubit (Moses was schooled in Egypt) : 21.6 inches

                Behold : an arithmetic lesson : Noah's Ark Dimensions in FEET : Width : 90' ; Length : 515' ; Depth : 54' ; TOTAL CUBIC VOLUME : 2,502,900 cubic feet.

                HALF THE SIZE OF THE TITANIC.

                Total species on board including 8 people : This makes 65,008 individuals, plus an extra 10 of each clean fowl. Lets just add another 5000 to include BABY "dragons" (dinosaurs)....and sway in the upper quantity to 70,000, hey you can even try 90,000 individuals if you really want to argue :-

                OKAY, READY : Average volume of each creature : 35 cubic feet for 70,000 individuals and 27.81 cubic feet for 90,000 individuals.

                Largest creatures we have that SURVIVED The Flood were Mammoths and young "dinosaurs" "Big lizards" - BUT THEY NEVER GROW AS BIG NOW (cos they don't live as long) and man killed off most of them in the ensuring 3000 years after The Ark touched down.

                THEN WE HAVE : Elephants, Unicorns (sorry Single Horned Rhinos), Hippos, Bears, Giraffes, The Moa, Ostrich and Emu....what are we missing - Horses, Lions, Walruses, GO FIGURE...We have an average of 27 - 35 cubic feet per specimen to play with here....

                The MAJORITY of birds and mammals are SMALL, VERY SMALL.....

                Plus, they were SCARED STIFF and WELL TAME after the first couple of months into THE GREAT STORM....

                END OF LESSON - Amen

                Genesis 2 : 7

                "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
                and man became a living soul."


                http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6711329_f248.jpg

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Good Job Elijah7, you actually wrote something. I didn't read much of it, but I did read some of it because it was black and written by a person (not copied)

                  Keep up the good work.

                2. twosheds1 profile image59
                  twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Elijah, I'm gonna take you seriously for once. Let's put aside the questions about how the kangaroos reach the Middle East in time to get on the ark or the fact that God killed innocent children with the flood or that Noah would need 3000 species of beetle. Instead of making excuses for how the ark was possible, isn't it easier to accept the ark story for what it really is: a fable and a parable? Even for a believer, to believe that the flood actually happens requires quite a suspension of disbelief and ignoring of a lot of scientific facts.

                  Why not just say "this is just a story, but it's a story with a powerful and meaningful message." I think you wouldn't come across so kooky if you did that.

                3. Theresa Cox profile image59
                  Theresa Coxposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What does Moses being schooled in Egypt have to do with Noah building the ark?

                4. Paul Wingert profile image79
                  Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Elijah- I'm not going to get into the rediculous idea of a world wide flood. Here's  major part of the Ark problem. A wooden vessel measuring Width : 90' ; Length : 515' ; Depth : 54' ; TOTAL CUBIC VOLUME : 2,502,900 cubic feet is able to hold a lot of stuff. But there's one thing that it can't do -FLOAT! There's this thing called the laws of physics that is busting apart this Noah story (cute story by the way, but not hoilding water). The Ark in the story rode the waves for 40 days and nights. I'd give it 4 minutes before it became part of the sea floor. Sorry to bust your bubble.

        2. A Thousand Words profile image81
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Indeed. The western idea of God being separate realm-wise from the Universe but still active in it is just that, a Western idea. In many Eastern Philosophies "God" isn't as easy to define, but it isn't separate from nature. Life springs forth from it, whether it's Brahman or The "Way" (the Tao), and so forth, and so nature, along with everything and everyone else, is a part of it, and that includes science. Many different Eastern Philosophies coincide well with the sciences. Science is simply the way we observe nature and it's processes and what we can discover about it. All of our principles and theories and the like are not "created" but already "exist" intangibly in nature, we're just giving them a name, and finding out how to use them for our own purposes, sometimes destroying nature itself in the process...

          1. 60
            IdeasAboundingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah... the Eastern philosophies that include reincarnation, "God-in-all-things," the worship of ancestors, spirit dragons, Kami, pantheons beyond anything the Greeks imagined, and the "healing powers" of mind trances? Are these the parts that "coincide well with science?"

            Or were you just following along with what you've heard in pop culture?

    2. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
      IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      observing a thing such as God fall into the realms of science almost everything does, and the burden of proof falls on the person making/supporting the claim not the one refutuing it.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Science deals with the physical. Religion and philosophy delves into the spiritual. Asking for scientific proof of God is as foolish as asking for theological proof of his non existence.

        1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
          IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I hope you realize how ridiculous of a statement that was. I'm not even sure it made sense.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No more ridiculous than your opening question.. No. Wait........I believe your opening question was much more foolish. How, exactly, is the study of the physical world going to prove the spiritual? If it even exists.

            Attempting to define an apple by studying parasites would be about as effective.

            1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
              IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What is your definition of spiritual?

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                roll

                I don't make up my own definition for things. If you don't know the meaning of the word...that would go a long way towards explaining your posting this thread.

                Do you not own a dictionary? You do know what google is, don't you?

                1. A Thousand Words profile image81
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Spirituality, while it's simplest definition is "that pertaining to the spiritual" has different meanings for different people. That is the nature of it. There is no finite, concrete definition of spirituality beyond that. Some people believe that spirits exist beyond this plane of reality. Some people think that everything is a part of it, sprang from it, and there is no separation, and that is how they view "God" or the life force that this Universe sprang from. If you do not agree on what is meant by spirituality, then of course the conversation will be mostly pointless, and you will disagree on what can or cannot be theoretically "proven."

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Whatever your understanding; spiritual refers to anything outside of the physical or material world. I'm still waiting to hear which branch of  respectable science would handle this.

                2. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
                  IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I know this must be really hard for you to comprehend, but I didn't ask for you to make up a definition. Most words have more than one definition (maybe I'm not the one who needs a dictionary). So maybe you should go look up all these terms that you're using but have no idea what they mean on google since you're such a google expert.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Ok. If you can't simply admit it was a foolish question, we'll move forward. roll

                    What branch of science do you think should devote its time to studying something that is, by definition, outside of the material and physical world?

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes and no. The one refuting the claim is, by definition, making a counter-claim. The demand is, "Show me God," the corollary being, "Show me God the way I want to see God." If someone can't produce the demanded evidence in the demanded way, then the person making the initial demand then claims, "Therefor God does not exist." There are many corollaries to that, including "The universe has simply always been," which you cannot show (assuming you personally believe that, but many people who reject the existence of God do believe that,) which cannot be scientifically proven but is accepted and sometimes fiercely defended simply because it seems the most logical explanation based upon not only what the person DOES know but also based on what the person believes.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I suppose it's sorta like you trying to prove any of the ancient gods don't exist.  They are invisible like your god too.  Can you prove none of them exist, Chris?  If not, then does it mean they are real?  What about leprechauns, are they real?  Can you prove they aren't?  What reasoning you guys use!!  roll


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          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, I've been through all that.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image95
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well then humor me, Chris.  Can you prove there aren't thousands of gods even more powerful than the one you prefer?  One word will suffice as an answer, so you won't have to repeat a bunch of text again.  smile 

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              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hub.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'll take that as a no.  lol


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                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Don't.



                    lol

              2. Elijah7 profile image60
                Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                One Word : JESUS

                One Picture : THE REAL NOAH'S ARK FOUND AND PROVED

                ONE HOLY SCRIPTURE : FROM : JESUS

                Mark 10 : 6

                "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."

                AMEN AND AMEN


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        2. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
          IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I never asked for you to show me god. I asked for you to show me proof of his existence.

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What kind of proof, exactly, do you want? Are you asking for something repeatable in laboratory experiments? A burning bush? A reason why so many people believe in God?

            This is a serious question. I'm trying to get at what you want. Simply saying, "Show me proof" is not as exact a question as you might think it is.

            1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
              IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              sorry, should have been more clear in my last response i meant scientific evidence; and logically sound argument.

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                As for the former part, God doesn't work that way. He doesn't need to. I'm assuming that by "scientific evidence" you mean "repeatable in the laboratory."


                As for the latter part, I'm going to try to save us both some time here. Do you assume that  an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being is a logical impossibility and therefor is an impossibility (no, I did not just repeat myself) and therefor anybody who believes there is one believes a fallacy and you discount them right from the starting gate? I ask this because there are plenty of good arguments for the existence of God, and I talk to people all the time who disagree with me (some of them very strongly) but some poeple just snort and disregard or, worse, call names. I'm not assuming you will call me a name. But that is my position, that God exists.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  There are only "plenty of good arguments for the existence of god" if one chooses to ignore facts and reality, Chris.  So who made god?


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                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Nobody made God. He's always been.

                    The universe has always been. People have no trouble believing that.

    3. Dubuquedogtrainer profile image62
      Dubuquedogtrainerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Quite the contrary - God IS science. The earth was identified as round in the Bible long before mankind ever discovered it was round and not flat...and there are many more examples of science in the Bible.

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Really? Have you seen G/god? Can you point him out? Please do, then you can apply it to Science.
        Yes there are examples of science. It's a history and mythology book.

      2. cascoly profile image59
        cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        and many MORE examples of scientific ignorance - you cant have it both ways - eg, right in the beginning the bible has  god create light BEFORE he creates the sun & moon

  3. cat on a soapbox profile image80
    cat on a soapboxposted 4 years ago

    Not that I am aware of. That's why belief in God is called faith. The beauty of nature and the complexity of her design affirms my belief in an intelligent designer. I, unlike other many Christians, believe in evolution as well.

    1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
      IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I respect that a believer can say they believe just beacuse of faith, and that they also believe in evolution as well. smile

  4. Randy Godwin profile image95
    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago

    I prefer to believe in goddesses.  smile


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    1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
      IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol

  5. laurathegentleman profile image86
    laurathegentlemanposted 4 years ago

    I think if you're looking for cold, hard evidence, you're going to end up disappointing yourself.

    I am a Christian, born and raised, but I can definitely understand why someone would question the existence of God. I was the kid that wound up in Sunday School every single Sunday, whether I liked it or not. And so for the first eighteen years of my life - God was there, only because my parents said so and I wasn't really allowed to question it.

    And now that I'm in college and I have the freedom to, for the most part, do what I want, when I want - I've developed a much closer and more peaceful relationship with God. I found that despite all those years of whining and complaining about having to go to church, I DID believe what I'd learned in all those Sunday School classes. And I DO pray, constantly, because I know I'm a mess but I'm less of a mess when God is there with me...

    Christianity is, ultimately, based on faith. Faith that God is there, and He loves us, and He created us and is taking care of us. There's certainly no formula to HOW to develop faith - I'm sorry I can't give you straight facts.

    One thing I don't agree with is the idea that some Christians hold that we're "better than." (Just the same way that Christians tend to think that Atheists view themselves as "better than" or "smarter than." I know there ARE people who think that way, but there are also plenty who don't!) I have always believed that religion should be shared peacefully, but never forced on someone, and never used against someone.

    I think there are so many benefits to having a relationship with God - and the best part is that you don't have to DO anything except be open to it! God will work in you if you're willing. (I know... it sounds cheesy. *eyeroll* Haha, but it's true!)

    Anyways... sorry I don't have the absolute evidence you were looking for!! But this was my attempt... Thanks for listening to me ramble? Haha

    1. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
      IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thats okay haha. I respect the religious who can agree that it doesnt make sense, but you just have to believe. I don't agree with it, but i respect it. smile

  6. laurathegentleman profile image86
    laurathegentlemanposted 4 years ago

    And sorry for the disgustingly long post!! Ack!! I hate when people do that, and there I go - guilty of it, myself!!

  7. carlaemsley profile image60
    carlaemsleyposted 4 years ago

    OK. here are my thoughts on why you should believe in a higher being.....
    First of all, what do you have to look forward to after death??? turning into dust???

    However, I am a normal person, One of the-I think its 87% +/- Christians-or similar to, that believe that there is life after death! You can preach until you are blue in the face about scientific proof...but that wont change the minds of 87%+/- in the world that believe in a higher being...

    Before all of this bull about Scientology and such, everyone for the most part felt like -yes there is or could be a higher being.
    What I mean by that is, back when we were taght to believe in God, people were somewhat normal..
    As far as evolution is concerned, EVERYTHING evolves.

    Have you noticed that after they took the Prayer the pledge and the paddle out of the schools the world has turned into a place where people can kill innocent children and go about their day as if nothing happened?? Or even walk into a school or a shopping center and because someone ticked them off, they start shooting and killing people?? They think its ok!!

    Meaning, Nobody has anything to believe in anymore! I guess the COOL thing is to jump on the Athiest bandwagon or Scientology.

    The world wasn't this nuts back when we were scared to wrong someone!
    People were scared to go to jail! Now a days, if a policeofficer makes an error, you get off without any punishment!
    Police brutality!! Whatever! The police were allowed to use whatever force they needed to use to handle the perpetrator... If the person weren't doing wrong in the first place, they wouldn't be in that position!

    The teachers actually could do their job without worriyng about being sued or charged with whatever the student came up with...
    The students run the schools now. NOT the teachers..that's why our education in the U.S. is so poor!

    The Prayer,Pledge and the paddle.....
    without the prayer we've lost our morals....without the the pledge we've lost our pride and commitment... without the paddle, we don't fear punishment!
    So if you think long and hard about this, you can realize that- 
    morals, pride and fear is what most of us grew up with!!

    So, go on and be an Athiest if you want.. Its your right to believe in what you want to believe in!

    FREEDOM... We don't realize what we have here in the U.S.- go to a 3rd world country....when you feel as if you have it soooo bad here, go !! You will come running back, kissing the ground- on U.S. soil.
    People who do not have any morals to stand on, tend to make poor choices, which causes them to lose in life.  I guess I was up on my soapbox!!  Carla

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting that your #1 reason for believing in a God is that you don't want to die. 

      You do understand that for many thousands of years some people believed and some did not, yet the unifying factor throughout is that they all died regardless of their belief.

      It would thus seem that your belief will not have one iota of impact on whether you die or not.  Why then would you put any effort at all into believing and following what the church gives us as the rules of life it you will still die?  It doesn't seem much of a reason.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You forgot the whole thing about stealing this country from the original inhabitants and then enslaving a multitude of people to develop it for us.  At what point in the history of our country were we so moral?  Most of this was done with the approval of churches and their followers.



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    3. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
      IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I will have nothing to look forward to, because I will be dead. Look all of this is off topic so I don't see your point. Keep your preaching to a minimum or atleast stay on topic.

  8. cat on a soapbox profile image80
    cat on a soapboxposted 4 years ago

    Anything is possible, but the odds of its "just happening" are next to nil.  Let's see, um. . . the invention of the computer was a random act as was the engineering of the Golden Gate Bridge, and art on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. These are nowhere near the amazing caliber of things in nature!!  If there is no intelligent designer behind our natural world, what is the purpose of its existence? Earth and the universe will continue to exist long after humans are extinct.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why does there have to be a purpose?  Dinosaurs were around for hundreds of millions of years.  Many many times longer than humans have existed.  What was their purpose for being here?  What did they accomplish during their long reign upon this planet?

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      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        For purely motivation reasons Randy. Establishing a purpose for your life would grant you automatic motivation. It would also establish meaning for it, aside from just living. wink

      2. cascoly profile image59
        cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        they made it possible for us to destroy the environment by burning their remains in our factories

    2. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The purpose of the human species is to survive. The purpose of the individual for that individual to create. It is not something which can be given or granted. It must be created by the individual. If not, then the person will live in stagnation instead of fluidity and since they will live in stagnation they will lack motivation.
      Really? And with any sort of rational thought can you back that up?

      I can see how the human species as a collective would out last the Sun of our Solar System. The problem is to not be in THIS Solar System when the Sun dies.

      Just a thought.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Merely living on this wonderful orb isn't enough for some people.  They never stop to realize just what the odds of them ever being born are.  Every one of their direct ancestors had to have made love to their mates at just the right moment in time for us to be here. 

        Not to mention everyone of them being the winner of the swimming race out of a multitude of entrants going back through the ages.  The odds are infinitesimal.  We've already won the lottery of life, why should there be anything better?

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  9. Ron Montgomery profile image60
    Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago

    Hi Randy, I heard you bit a minister in west Virginia this week...

    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That is a lie!  It was his wife I bit! 



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  10. SpanStar profile image61
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    Personally I find proving God is irrelevant for if we were to prove God that does not mean people would accept or follow him.

    We need only look at biblical history to see that even with all the miracles Jesus did he was not accepted by a number of people which goes on even  today.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You are relying on hearsay evidence of the miracles though, aren't you?  Apparently none of the contemporary historians of the time of Jesus ever heard of these purported miracles.  And the biblical books were "according to" not "written by" the apostles themselves.  But you knew that, right?

      And really, are you saying if god appeared and showed his might people would merely say, "Get lost God, throw me in hell. I ain't afraid of you!"  Sure, a few might, but not many!"  lol


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      1. SpanStar profile image61
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        In America we are certainly free to believe as we choose and one can put their faith in mankind but I have found mankind is far from infallible.

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Fictional characters are usually perfect in nature for a reason. Do you know why? If not, oh well. However, I rather put my faith in humans. I leave the fictional stuff to my imagination where it belongs.

          1. SpanStar profile image61
            SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If God is so fictional why don't you prove he doesn't exist?

            1. Randy Godwin profile image95
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Right after you prove Zeus, Odin, Allah, Santa Claus, and leprechauns don't exist.  Pick any or all of these to disprove and I'll be right behind you.


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              1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well, still waiting for you to prove these beings don't exist so I can do the same for your god.  Can you?  lol


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            2. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Prove that your G/god doesn't exist. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

              How can I disprove something which doesn't exist to begin with. It would have to exist first, at which time, I wouldn't have to attempt to disprove it and would only show I was in denial.

              It would be nice if you left your G/god in your mind where you are suppose to. It's your belief. It's believed true based on mystic ideological faith. The faith which is more damaging than helpful. You fooling yourself can only be damaging to the overall of society, and to the collective of humanity. Each person who holds such a belief, does damage when they speak about it publicly.

              To those of us who are consciously active, it's a sign you are weak and unfortunately, due to other factors, you don't see your own weakness. So, I guess since you don't see your own weakness, then it wouldn't be logical to expect you to see or recognize your own limitations either? That's a real shame.

              It's fairly simple to understand really.

              Life doesn't require(need) any knowledge of any G/god to be understood.
              Life doesn't require(need) any knowledge of any G/god to be lived.

              Therefore, no G/god required or needed.

              If you "need" a G/god in your life and you need external guidance, aside from your conscience, then you require a crutch due to weakness.

              And, yes I aware of the fact that knowledge about the G/god concept is available and can be learned. And any really rational and reasonable person will dismiss the irrationality of all world religion's G/gods, which are written about.

              There's just no need for a G/god to exist. NONE whatsoever.

              1. SpanStar profile image61
                SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                From out of this theory of the Big Bang-(Highly technical term) where and how did the element of life began?

                That should be a relatively easy answer for an intellectual like you.

              2. kess profile image60
                kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Have not that useless G/god to life and existence given you a purpose?

                So how can you insist it is useless, unless ofcourse you also admit the most obvious.

                1. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No.
                  The knowledge isn't required(needed) to understand life or live it. I'm sorry the obvious escapes you.

                  1. kess profile image60
                    kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You have missed the most obvious...oh well

                2. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  There is nothing to show a god gave any sort of purpose to us.  We are no different from other life forms who are here to survive as best we can.  This is reward enough unless you would prefer not to experience life at all.  Personally, just to have this chance to live is enough for me.  I need no invisible beings to blame or thank my existence for.  Sadly. others do.


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                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I didn't need one either!

                    The only problem is, He disagreed with that!

                  2. kess profile image60
                    kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You cant see because you look beyond yourself.

                    So like Cags you in the middle of Gods purpose yet deny it....oh well.

                    Your eyes cant tell you what to see.

        2. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sure mankind is infallible, but i know of no living creature which isn't.  Apparently even your god is not as his perfect creation--you know the bad guy in the novel--was tempted(by who, we are not informed) to believe he was on a par with his creator, and is now blamed for tempting all humans.  I'm sorry, but who could actually buy into that silly scenario?

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          1. SpanStar profile image61
            SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Down through man's history gaining power and position was achieved by killing the leader which Rome was famous for-don't really know how you missed all that.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image95
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Are you saying Satan really thought he had a chance of usurping your god's power?  He was supposed to be your god's finest creation but was flawed enough to be temped and apparently not too bright either.

              This doesn't bode well when a god's omnipotence is not so omnipotent after all, does it?

              He screwed up the first creation too and had to practically drown the entire population of the planet.  A snap of the fingers would have been easier and what did those poor animals ever to to him?  What a joke of a story!


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              1. SpanStar profile image61
                SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                One day when you create you own universe and your own inhabitants then you too can make up whatever rules you like.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I hope I can up with a more believable story than your god does.  I feel sure I wouldn't want the type of followers he has, though.  I believe I would choose some better educated people to vouch for me.


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                  1. SpanStar profile image61
                    SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Best of Luck with That!

      2. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Randy, people would follow Jesus, but not likely the biblical psycho father. lol But, Jesus would have to demonstrate the same might G/god is believed to have.

  11. jacharless profile image80
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    It all depending on what a person defines or considers to be evidentiary.

  12. celticlass11 profile image60
    celticlass11posted 4 years ago

    There is an excellent book series out there by Lee Strobel. He wrote several books that uses expert opinions and scientific evidence to back up such topics as a Creator, a Christ, and even Faith. If you're interested in learning more, I would highly recommend the series.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Not really a big fan of religious fiction.


                                             http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

      1. celticlass11 profile image60
        celticlass11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        These books are actually categorized as non-fiction because it is based on actual interviews from expert testimony. Just like Richard Dawkins' books are categorized as non-fiction, so are books that set out to prove the existence of Christianity.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And where did you get this info?  As far as I know there are no independent witnesses to the veracity of the old novel.  But feel free to prove me wrong if you care to.  Who are these corroborating witnesses?

          Richard Dawkings is well known and has appeared to many of us on different venues.  We know he exists.  Very bad comparison, at any rate.  Try again!  Who have you witnessed that was actualy there during biblical times? 


                                                     http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

          1. celticlass11 profile image60
            celticlass11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "old novel," but the validity of witnesses stems from the fact that they are scholars from various fields. Oh, by the way, the libraries, bookstores, and Amazon all categorize Lee Strobel's books AND Richard Dawkins' books as non-fiction. Look it up.

            1. cascoly profile image59
              cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              irrelevant - just because something is sold as non-fiction doesnt make it true!  eg, all holocaust-deniers, diet books, MLM scams, are listed as non-fiction

              all non-fiction means is that the author does not admit her book is make beleive

            2. Randy Godwin profile image95
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I suppose I don't understand you using witnesses which were not around when the supposed biblical events took place nor actually spoke to anyone who was.  Using your scenario then, all of the supposed gods existed and still do.  Someone merely has to say they did.  lol

              And since when does Amazon guarantee the contents of their books to be absolute truth?  There are plenty of "Ghost stories" claiming to be non-fiction sold on Amazon, but then, you probabby believe they are real too.  roll

                                              http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

        2. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What idiot sets out to prove the existence of Christianity? And, why would they write a book about it?

          Christianity is an organized religion. This is proven by the idiotic steps taken by one of the dumbest people on the planet- The Pope.

          If you are American, then you also know that Christianity is a business. It provides a product- the Bible. To qualify as a religion- it grants an individual a higher purpose to serve, so their life is not about them, but something greater.

          Again, nothing to prove.

          1. celticlass11 profile image60
            celticlass11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If you read the book, the original purpose of the book was not to PROVE the existence of Christianity but to DISPROVE it (the author used to be an atheist). Maybe you shouldn't add your two cents worth without knowing all of the facts.

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Not knowing all the facts. Don't make me laugh. lol I don't go chasing things which are obvious.

  13. jacharless profile image80
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    I agree with Cagsil, the Knowledge of Creator is not required, it is inherit.
    This is essentially why Theos is unable to prove anything, by sensational or equation methods. This is exactly why both styles of religion exist and explains the constant struggle between them to see who can prove-disprove first.

    Amnesia is a b!ach, innt? You know it, but can't remember it {"get it"}; You are apart of it, but cannot make sense of it; experience it, because you can't remember how-to.


    "It really does not matter which alter of preference is used, be it steel-scalpel or stone-dagger, neither expression is able to prove the obvious. The quantum-gillion pound elephant is sitting in the same room and invisible to them, while the each dissect pieces of it."

    James

  14. celticlass11 profile image60
    celticlass11posted 4 years ago

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, guys, but this very heated debate is actually in the "Christianity, the Bible and Jesus" forum. Maybe the atheists should head to the "Atheists and Agnosticism" forum and discuss their thoughts there. Also, I believe some of these comments are violating the forum rules.

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, the topic could go in multiple forums. Education and Science, the one you suggested, or the one it is in.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Right, like believers don't post on the atheist threads!  lollol  If you see an infraction of the rules feel free to hit the report button.  Or better yet, why not actually write ahub so we can see just how knowledgeable you really are.  In case you didn't know, this is a writer's site, not just for posting on the forums.  smile

      If you are merely looking for somewhere to preach and not be challenged when you state unbelievable things, there are plenty of other places to do so besides here.

                                            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

  15. cat on a soapbox profile image80
    cat on a soapboxposted 4 years ago

    Randy,
    You ask what possible purpose the dinosaurs had. They existed in thick primeval forests where they ate huge amounts of vegetation. Many were herbivores. Our Sago palms and other cycads existed back then. Our fossil fuels that we rely on today came from the decay of those prehistoric eras.
    Birds, reptiles, and amphibians as well as insects and arthropods also evolved from these early creatures. That seems like quite a contribution.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      But some species became completely extinct with no ancestors remaining to fulfill their so-called purpose.  And sorry to be the one to tell you, but dinosaurs did not have anything to do with fossil fuels.  These came from vast seas of very primitive algae, not tyrannosaurus rex as some are foolish enough to believe.  :lol;

                                                          http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

  16. cat on a soapbox profile image80
    cat on a soapboxposted 4 years ago

    Yes, Randy, you are correct that the underwater creatures and algae created the fossil layer, but the decomposition of the dinosaurs and vegetation provided an additional layer of organic material that furthur pushed and pressurized the fossils to create hydrocarbons. The by-product of the upper organic layer,Leonardite, we use today  as an effective ingredient in organic fertilizers.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Great!  Hundreds of millions of years of life forms and their purpose was to create fertilizer.  Wow!  Talk about having a purpose in one's life!  I suppose this explains all of the BS believers are spreading everywhere around the world.  "I am fertilizer, here me roar!"  Yep, this does explain the existence of religionists better than anything I've ever heard.  Thanks for clearing that up for me.  I feel better about my existence now.  smile


                                         http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

      1. cat on a soapbox profile image80
        cat on a soapboxposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol! You really missed my point though. The existence of these creatures and their contibution to the prehistoric ecosystems in the primieval forest actually FACILITATED the production of hydrocarbons by further pressurizing the fossil layer.  Also, you haven't yet commented on the contribution to the evolution of birds, reptiles, and amphibians. What do you think?

        1. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Unless your point was we are where we are now, I suppose I did miss it.  But then you must have some proof the planet would be worse off without these events.  And for it to be worse off, there must be a true plan of where we are attempting to end up eventually.  Otherwise, random events occur on this wonderful planet with no purpose at all.  I see no problem with this scenario as I cannot envision a perfect world under any circumstances.

                                                     http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

        2. cascoly profile image59
          cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          the larger point is that evolution, unlike any god, HAS NO PURPOSE - life volved from non-life after billions of years.  lifeforms change over time by natural selection, and forms that cant adapt to new enviernoments go extinct.  that's exactly what evolution predicts - and once more, unlike religion, science like evolution is proved by facts that it has predicted.

  17. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    somebody said .....
       "Your statements don't come across as wisdom of any sort. There are times which you do make sense, but not too often. Thus, you no truth in what you say".
        ++++++++++++++++++++++++


       And I say that is true for everybody; ...   which by your standards ... there is NO truth in the world ....  you and me are part of the world don't YOU know???

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You're making the mistake of including me or even yourself considering my statement only need apply to him because of his actions.

      If you've never been told you're wise, then oh well.

      That doesn't go for me. I've had plenty of people tell me that they whole-heartedly understood what I said and when I make statements if read properly will automatically be seen as wisdom, if that is what is being said.

      Truth is recognized when seen, except for those who have a problem with ego.

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        OH Well  "If" You say so it must be true!   
          In which case you would know if i was talking about you or not ??

  18. puneet888 profile image60
    puneet888posted 4 years ago

    do you believe in science ????

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Does someone believe in science? What type of question is that? Do you see science as some mystical dark arts voodoo magic?

      1. jacharless profile image80
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Boom! Nice punch-back, Emile.
        {and yes I see science as some mystical dark arts voodoo magic}
        Plenty of history behind science to show it.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What? Mystical dark arts voodoo magic?

          Oh I get it. You just don't understand it so no one can. All those vaccinations are just voodoo magic and polio just appears to be gone. And that car I drive is mystical. big_smile

          1. jacharless profile image80
            jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Polio is gone? LOL, not!
            Vaccines do not cure, they are remission agents.
            I'd say someone has inhaled a bit too much majik dust, from all those majik powders.

            FYI, the last pandemic was less than 100 years ago.
            Scientists have already predicted an exponential pandemic within 20 years.
            You can't stop nature, friend. Humans need to realize they are not greater than their maker -be it Creator, or nature itself.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              After vaccination campaigns throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in 1979. Smallpox is one of two infectious diseases to have been eradicated, the other being rinderpest, which was declared eradicated in 2011.

              1. jacharless profile image80
                jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You mention the word: eradicate three times in the same two sentences.
                Eradicate Defined: to remove or destroy utterly;

                Science has not -repeat not- eradicated any disease, ever.
                Putting a disease into remission or forcing the immune system to change, to accept the synthetic-disease, and form a fix, is not a cure, it is literally a genetic modification.

                Smoke and Mirrors. Yup, just like medicine men of old. Religion @ its finest.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Religion had nothing to do with these great medical advances.  Knowledge and research quelled the spread of many former deadly diseases, not religious rituals.

                                                  http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You clearly have no understanding of small pox or how spreads and why nobody ever gets it anymore. Do some research.

  19. puneet888 profile image60
    puneet888posted 4 years ago

    oye voodoo boodoo kya kar rahi hai ???
    chup chap ye bta science mai believe karti hai ya ni ?????

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol Did you just put the voodoo evil eye on me?

  20. puneet888 profile image60
    puneet888posted 4 years ago

    voodoo

  21. puneet888 profile image60
    puneet888posted 4 years ago

    if u want to see god just do yoga and meditation for only 22 daysthere are "chakras" in every ones body to make a contact with god when they all will be active then u will definitely got the answer of your question

  22. Allen Gordon profile image60
    Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago

    For all of you that question the existence of God here are some questions for you to ponder.
    How did everything begin if not by a Creator? You want scientific fact for a creation well here you go. In order for cells to maintain their structure they all have to be joined together at the same time not by some evolution. That is impossible. If you have a single cell then it will fall and not stand. Look at the ameoba a single celled organism it has no structure. You mean to tell me that's how man started. Where is the evolution of the ameoba.
    There is no scientific proof in evolution. You want scientific proof of creation then look at how intricate the eye is. You think the eye just came by chance. How do you think we continue to breathe? Is that by chance as well? Also, if there is a such thing as evolution why have we not changed form in the over 6,000 years of our existence. How is it that man has healing properties within him? Is that evolution as well? The lungs heal themselves over time. When a person gets injured their body begins to heal right away. So is that the product of evolution. You want scientific proof of a Creator here is some more thoughts for all of you to ponder. The earth is on a 33 1/3 degree tilt which has to be there otherwise there would be no gravity. If the earth were any closer to the sun it would burn up any farther it would freeze. So the earth is exactly where it needs to be in place. Is this evolution? If so how can that happen by chance? Take a marked quarter and place it in a pile of 25,000 quarters what would your chances be of finding it. It would be impossible just like it would be impossible for creation to happen by chance. Creation demands a Creator. I guess it's also by chance that all animal life just happens to be taken care of. Or that all plant life lives. It is this very plant life that gives us the oxygen to survive without it we would all die. Everything is designed perfectly so how could it have happened by chance. Where do morals come from is not from God Who has these morals. Every person on this earth has morals, if we didn't then there would be noone left because we would have killed each other off a while ago. How do you think the earth maintains that tilt it's on and the exact position in the universe. Is that by chance too? Don't you think that Someone needs to keep it held in place?

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Talk about being out of touch. WOW! hmm

      1. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        They're coming out of the woodwork these days, Cags.  Step on one and ten more scurry out and lay eggs under the rug!  lol


                                      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Where is the evolution of the amoeba you ask? A simple google search would help. multicellularity.

      6000 years of existence? There is evidence of life on earth for 4 billion years. Google.

      Do you really think we would all kill each other. Do other creatures all kill each other.

      Spend sometime googling stuff.

      1. Allen Gordon profile image60
        Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        First off one cannot believe everything they find on google. There is alot of misrepresentation and error printed online. Too much opinion for my liking no hardcore facts. You tell me to spend time googling stuff well then I say to you the same. Instead of trying to debate something that you know little about why not find out more about since you put your trust in google.
        Secondly, what about the so-called evolution of man. We are not currently evolving so if evolution is true why did we stop evolving since it's an endless ongoing process.
        Thirdly, the so-called scientific data for a 4 billion year old existence can be disproved by looking at how much dust is on the moon. The moon accumlates dust all the time so why is there so little of it then on the moon and not 4 billion years worth. You want scientific proof of all this. This was found by a simple google search since you tell me to google stuff.
        http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/hugh- … -universe/

        1. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Because the moon was created from an impact of another heavenly body with the earth.  This means the earth existed long before the moon was created.  DUH!  Do a little research next time before making such silly statements.

          And how can you tell we aren't evolving?  Do you have an evolvometer?  lol


                                               http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Wikipedia has become a very good unbiased source of information, because it's edited by many it gives both sides of most arguments very well.

          You asked how a one celled creature could evolve into a many celled creature so I showed you with multicellularity. Look it up. Sometimes single celled come together as something called slime as well and act as a single organism.

          What makes you think we are no longer evolving? It's a slow process, but we evolve for different environments. Dark skin becomes light skin so we can produce more vitamin D with less sun shine. People of the far north have evolved to have a much greater ability to no suffer from frost bite.

          You are kidding about the moon dust right? Holy cow. With no atmosphere and no wind you get no dust. Want proof? The astronauts left mirrors on the moon surface as proof that they were there. We can send laser to the moon and record how long they laser takes to come back after reflecting on the mirror. Guess what, they still have no dust build up and still work. If you really think the world is 6000 years old how could you explain that in only 6000 years we have so many different peoples that have evolved to live in different parts of the world?

          Looking up at the stars is absolute proof that the universe is old. Most of those stars are million of light years away. Meaning it take the light millions of years to get here. The fact that we can see them means we are seeing the light that was sent millions of years ago.

          1. Allen Gordon profile image60
            Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I can't help that you would rather listen to a bunch of opinions on wikipedia rather then facts. I am not going to continue this cyclical debate. The proof is there if you just open your eyes but then again if you did that your little ego would be hurt. If you want to continue to believe that we are all slime then fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that doesn't make the truth any less true. The beauty of the truth is that it remains the same no matter who disbelieves. You are going to have to give an account to God Himself for your beliefs as am I. I would rather be on His good side when He judges everyone according to their thoughts and deeds. If you are not in Christ then I am afraid for you. Evolutionary science is not going to save you from hell. But then again that's why you refuse to believe in a Creator because that means you cannot live your life as you please and that you are held accountable to Someone for your actions.The evolution of different environments is called micro evolution do your research where is the proof that we have macro evolved once we reached the point to where we are now. If anything we are devolving considering manking used to live to over 900 years in age. I suggest you do your research and stay away from wikipedia. There is a reason my college comp professor told us we are not allowed to use wikis in our essays. It is not to be trusted as far as information is concerned. Why don't you look up the info for a Creator for yourself on sites that mean something and by that I mean sites that you know are scientifically sound in their facts.

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Dude, truth comes from only one place. It's called "wisdom".

              There's no wisdom in a word you've written since you started posting. WOW!

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                This scares me a little. He's got himself convinced that everything humans have discovered in the last 2000 years is completely wrong.

                1. Allen Gordon profile image60
                  Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't have myself convinced. Here's a little background just so you know. I used to be an evolutionist. I used to believe as you guys believe that we come from slime and by what so called scientists call the big bang theory we evolved. I then did my research and in my research God Himself convinced me through His inerrant Word of God that He is the Creator of the universe. He sen t His only Son to die for the sin of the world and that sin is unbelief. Because Jesus Christ loves you and all of humanity He suffered being brutally beaten, He then suffered excruciating pain upon a wooden cross and took that sin upon Himself. At which time God His Father, my Father turned His back on His own Son because He cannot stand the sight of sin nor can sin be in God's presence. After Jesus' death His body was put in a borrowed tomb and on the third day He rose again victorious. He now sits on the right hand of my Father in heaven and wants the people that God created to be reconciled with the Father and this can only happen through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I am no longer at enmity with God but am at one with Him.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    There is no way you understand evolution. You stick with the technology of 2000 years ago and I'll take my car to the mall and live till I'm 85 on a round earth in North America.

                    Did you say you think God turn his back on his own Son? Nice guy. I must have more compassion then your God because I wouldn't let my kids go through that while I turned my head in disgust.

              2. Allen Gordon profile image60
                Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And where do you suppose wisdom comes from. It has to com from somewhere or better yet Someone. As a matter of fact where do you think thoughts come from? Don't shy away from the question just answer it please.

                1. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Wisdom is the truth discerned from all knowledge available and experience. This doesn't include things which are not real or presently unknown. If you're implying that wisdom comes from G/god, then you're truly misguided.
                  It does come from someone- SELF.
                  Many thoughts come from the subconscious and many come from perceived things such as taste, touch, smell, sight and sound.
                  I don't shy away from those who are irrational at their base.

                  1. paradigmsearch profile image89
                    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I do. big_smile

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The human Brain.

                  Yea the Human Brain.



                  The Human Brain, well at least my brain, I'm not sure what your brain is doing.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Micro evolution is a term you guys have adopted to explain differences in human so you don't have to concede to Evolution. If you need example of (Macro evolution) look no further than the Horse and the Donkey. They have evolved far enough away from each other to have a different amount of chromosomes and yet are able to reproduce and have offspring. The fact that the offspring can't reproduce shows you they are to far apart to produce another line. That is the example of what you call Macro evolution. Another is the tiger and the lion, Another is the wolf and the fox.

              I certainly are accountable for my actions, and I bet I am a better person and citizen then you are. I don't do good things because I'm afraid of hell, I do good things because It's the right thing to do. I don't need the threat of hell to make me a good person. Do you?

              Your collage professer, let me guess your not studying science or phycology or philosophy and you certainly not in the arts. My guess is theology. And I bet your professor doesn't want you to read anything other than the books he gives you.

              1. Allen Gordon profile image60
                Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                For your information I am not in a college of theology nor have any interest in attending a theological school. I am majoring in Computer Programming. I have read alot more books surrounding this whole debate and this debate is a waste of my precious time with people as ignorant as you. You cannot even spell. Did you even graduate from HS you cannot even spell college or psychology. It's not the threat of hell that has me doing good. I do good because God has saved from myself. From the path to destruction that I was on. That same path that you are on. You bring up the horse and donkey as proofs of macro evolution yet they are the same species. Show me proof of one species turning into another as you claim happened i.e a puddle of slime evolving into anything that is worth anything. It's an impossibility for you because it never happened. It is so illogical and it makes me sick just thinking about that line of thinking. You say you are held accountable for your actions who are you held accountable to? I have no reason to be afraid of going to hell anymore so that is definitely not my motive for doing good. The tiger and lion are both a part of the cat family as the horse and donkey are both a part of the equine family. The wolf and fox are both dogs so show me proof of this macro evolution you speak so highly of. Show me proof that a cat turns into a dog or a reptile turns into a human because that is macro evolution. Where's your fossil evidence? There is none.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  And chimpanzees, gorillas, and humans are all members of the primate family.  All came from a common ancestor long ago.  But you knew that!  yikes


                                              http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

                  1. Allen Gordon profile image60
                    Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Regardless of the fact that man has decided to group humans with the primate family they are not the same species and that is what I was refering to. You cannot prove to me that we descended from apes. Once again and quit beating around the bush with the question find me the fossil evidence. There are fossils for every stage of life so where is this evolution in fossils? Your god science has never found this evidence and never will therefore you cannot provide me the proof of this.

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You are correct.. I was wrong...

                  I did spell college and psychology incorrectly and my spell checker failed me again. I am dyslexic and I do have trouble spelling, but at least I'm not a complete moron.

                  The horse and the donkey are no longer the same species. They have a different number of chromosomes and can't produce offspring that can successfully breed.

                  The fox is not a dog. They have been separated by evolution for to long to produce offspring.

                  Humans and chimps are genetically almost identical. Does that bother you?

                  Get back to programming.

            3. cascoly profile image59
              cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              first, did your professor also tell you the bible was a valid alternative to wiki?  true, there are some inaccuracies in wiki, but nothing comapored to the bible if you're talking about history, cosmology, biology, chemistry or any other real science

              then you claim mankind used to live to be 900!!! just when was this?  where is your scientific evidence?  even wikipedia doesnt make such as an ignorant claim as this!

              1. Allen Gordon profile image60
                Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The Bible doesn't even compare with wikipedia. The bible is full of scientific facts if you take the time to read it and obviously you haven't. The bible states that the earth is round and that is long before man made that discovery. How are you going to account for every single prophecy in the Bible has come to pass? This has been proven time and again.
                http://agards-bible-timeline.com/q9_his … bible.html
                http://christiananswers.net/archaeology/
                http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG … ources.htm
                http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-tr … l-evidence
                http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201.htm
                http://www.kingsolomonsgate.com/
                And of course your "messiah" and "bible" wiki
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
                http://www.godandscience.org/
                http://www.creationism.org/heinze/SciEvidGodLife.htm
                http://religionisscience.wordpress.com/ … r-old-man/

                1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Ha!  Most of these sites are a joke in the scientific world, Allen.  No wonder you have a problem with science. 

                                                           http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

                  1. Elijah7 profile image60
                    Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    2 Corinthians 4 : 4

                    "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

                    AD 1959 REAL AERIAL PHOTO OF THE REAL NOAH'S ARK - FOUND AND PROVED 100% - AMEN


                    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6708825_f248.jpg

  23. prettydarkhorse profile image61
    prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago

    Nada. Depends whether you are existentialist (atheistic or theistic). Ontological debates are cyclical - endless debates.

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There is plenty of scientific evidence...they just refuse to see it as such.

    2. IAmAnAtheist profile image59
      IAmAnAtheistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed

  24. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Same thing happened with John Gotti...that's why they called him the 'Teflon Don' cause they couldn't make anything stick. He was guilty...they just couldn't prove it. Maybe Gotti was god.

  25. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Until Schliemann they said they same thing about Troy and the Iliad.

  26. baronhertzog profile image83
    baronhertzogposted 4 years ago

    What about this? Third to last paragraph...

    http://www.francisxaviers.com/sainthistory.html

  27. Allen Gordon profile image60
    Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago

    Why don't you read Darwin since he started this whole evolution mumbo jumbo. He states that man descended from apes. I'm still waiting for your fossil evidence. And you're right I don't need no science degree as you don't seem to need a science degree. If that is what you are going to base your judgment of my posts on then you better take a look at yourself as well. Do you have a degree in any scientific field? When one knows how to read and knows how to separate the rational from irrational one does not need a science degree. You say that it is hypocrisy for Christians to go to doctors well obviously you really don't know what you are talking about. As a matter of fact the doctor that I do go to is a Christian and he doesn't seem to have a problem with God existing. There are scientists by the way that do believe in the existence of God(bet you didn't know that did you?) Here are some links you might want to look into since you obviously have not done your research in this area.
    http://www.icr.org/
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/
    http://creation.com/creation-scientists
    http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/
    http://creationsafaris.com/wgcs_toc.htm
    I think I have made my point. Since you want me to google stuff fo ahead and google "creation scientists". Or do their PhDs not matter to you because you fear that they may be right and you are wrong and headed to hell unless you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Oh yeah one more thing again quit beating around the bush where is your fossil evidence for evolution? Do you have any or not?

    1. Jane Bovary profile image88
      Jane Bovaryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Darwin didn't say we evolved from apes - he said that apes and humans must have had a common ancestor, as Randy mentioned.

      Allen, If it's mumbo-jumbo why are the vast majority of scientists in support of it? Are they all in a wild conspiracy to deceive us? What's more likely? That the great majority of mainstream scientists, including Christian ones, are wrong or that the small minority of creationist scientists who have a vested interest in denying evolution are right? There's some information about the fossil evidence you seek here here.: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

      1. Allen Gordon profile image60
        Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry to say that is not fossil evidence of evolution.
        Here you go: http://amazingdiscoveries.org/C-decepti … pithecines
        That is by a scientist with a Phd so since you believe in science you have to believe him as well.
        Have you not looked at any of the links I posted specifically this one:
        http://creation.com/creation-scientists
        You say that creation scientists are wrong but how can that be so when you put all of your faith in science so no science in your eyes can be wrong.

        1. autumn18 profile image68
          autumn18posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Creation science is using already discovered scientific theories to explain some of the stories in the bible about our origin. It's not a branch of science, its a branch of creationism. It's interesting that the sites you link are religion based.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Ive read Darwin's work, Allen.  Perhaps you are not aware there has been plenty of research on evolution since Darwin produced his theories.  He didn't have the advantage of modern techniques such as DNA testing to aid him in his studies.  But he made amazing advances in our understanding of life on this planet despite his lack of modern tools.

      "I don't need no science degree"

      A true statement from you, no doubt.  lol   





      Did you ask your christian doctor if he believed in evolution?  And why are you trusting him anyway?  He uses scientific knowledge gained by using information from people with--guess what--science degrees!  lol

      All of the links you included are laughable at the very least.  Merely because someone has a PHD in one subject doesn't mean they know anything about another.  Do you ever check what subject these creationists have a PHD in?  And it also matters if the particular institution they received their PHD from is respected in the scientific community.  There are religious based colleges who may bestow a PHD on an alumni but it would be scorned in the real world of science. 

      There are plenty of fossils available to be seen if you care to look in the right places.  Unfortunately, no giants or skeletons from 900 year old men either.  There are many examples of the now extinct neanderthal sub-species of humans.  Not to mention other species which became extinct unlike cro magnon man, our closest ancestor.  But you won't find them on your favorite sites you have listed as some sort of proof.  You have to look at actual scientific sites instead of those meant for the uneducated masses.

                 http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

      1. Allen Gordon profile image60
        Allen Gordonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The only uneducated masses are the evolutionists. You put all your faith in man who will lead you wrong everytime just look around you at what man is doing to themselves. It's sad that you are so blinded to this. No my doctor does not believe in evolution but I brought him up because you say the Christian cannot go to medicine and if we do it is hypocrisy yet one of the writers of the Bible was a doctor. Darwin was the worst thing that ever happened to mankind. Why are the links I provided laughable because they prove you and every other ignorant evolutionist wrong? And does it really matter what their Phd is in they are scientists that's who you believe in isn't it? You still have not shown me proof of a fossil record to prove evolution. Show a fossil that is in the process of evolution i.e. one species transforming into another.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Of course it matters what subject a scientist has a PHD in, Allen!  A PHD in art doesn't mean anything to someone who is trying to be believable in the scientific field.  Any child knows that. lol

          And your links prove nothing but how delusional you are.  You like to use science when it benefits you--such as the technology you are using at the moment--but when it comes to interfering with your silly religious beliefs you want to disparage it.  But tell me, what benefit do the worlds smartest humans get from faking scientific evidence?  Your imaginary god is certainly not worth these brilliant people wasting their time faking things to prove him wrong.  This is because there is nothing to show he is any more important than Santa Claus.

          I care not to try and prove anything to you.  I live in the bible belt and am surrounded by those such as your self.  I don't waste my time trying to prove anything to those incapable of understanding what most children can easily comprehend. 

                                                  http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

  28. CurtisJ75 profile image61
    CurtisJ75posted 4 years ago

    Hey Godwin, it must be aggravating to have that name while claiming aeitheism. So you asked for proof of God, other than me snappin a glossy 8x10 of our hippie looking Jesus, you'll have to think on 4 or five facts that seem separate, but actually can be linked to an organized set of factual proof...jeez, there's so much. Let me see - oh that's right "the entire system your beloved specialists/experts is the Manifold Wisdom of God.

    slap that into google one time and reading something positive for a change.
    That's right, mathematics, on into physics, nuclear technology, all of the complex systems at work behind the scenes is actually a created blueprint set in motion by the Creator for hands-free control.

    And why does God need hands-free technology - oh maybe the SCIENTIFIC fact that if the earth shifts just one degree left or right - we either burn or freeze to death.Yep just sittin up there killing all the humans He created - for the tinsey winsey job of only wanting true friends.

    Why? He already knows the result of fake friends, in fact, this is why disease is so widespread - AIDS? definitely the result of sinful actions - being done directly to HIS face - that's when the cities got destroyed - Old Testamant.

    to be in company with only those who had a PURE HEART - and I think you have one - in fact, here's another factual proof pic - God's Son endured every possible nasty thing known to mankind on the cross - AND THEN SOME, because He also went into hell for more than a day, and conquered satan, now pay attention, Christ also took back control to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, where Eve caused not just sin to enter earth, it also gave satan rule over all thngs under the sun.
    Sorry to say but the former angel lucifer, the music leader in heaven, is now the doubtful part of your consiousness, and the main reason humans accept things easy as cattle - it's from being tricked - of course, you need proof right - the sad thing is you probly believe in the devil without needing proof.
    But the fact your talking about God, and not being rude, well God's showing me, right now, that you have potential to see the truth for how this world operates and what is really going on. It seems like not more than three years and you'll start looking up, instead of down. (analogy)

    So there's been over two thousand years for the bad guy/girl, whatever it is -  to decieve mankind, progressively getting better at it. Hence the main reason why I have to write this much to illustrate - here I'll send it...finish with one more post - oh c'mon, if anything get a chuckle....

    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Well Curtis, you start out being completely wrong in your very first sentence.  Show me where I claimed to be an atheist anywhere on these forums and we'll talk.

                                            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

  29. CurtisJ75 profile image61
    CurtisJ75posted 4 years ago

    So I've said that Christ conquered death and took back the keys to the UNIVERSAL LAWS of true knowledge and evil. Which also leads to more proof of God the Creator, its written that He spent six days of actually creating - well when the foundation, rock, granite, massive land formations forming the Earth - it was done with God Speed - there have been many groups of scientists that have set out to disprove the Bible and they all end up proving the facts. One of the most important facts is the amount of prophesies written about Jesus 1500 years before He even walked the earth. Over 400 prophesies almost two thousand years old - came true during Christ life - this has been proven to conclude that the Bible is the only true living document, impossible to have been written without God's direction.


    Ten years ago a scientific expedition had a team of five drilling at separate, but very distant locations, going close to a mile down - what they found is a glaze on the granite that could only be caused from intense,  rapidly disappearing heat, from land coming into existence at sound of God's "let there be land" command. That's right - it's in a documentary called Evidences for Creation.

    They actually built a simulated earth habitat, like in BioDome - that had all of the things mentioned in the bible before sin was introduced. This is Important because before sin the earth was even more majestic, the celestial bodies(planets&stars) actually made harmonic sounds audible to Adam just after being created. There were no predators because it wasn't needed - Adam (1st Human) spoke of a pink/purple magenta that filled the morning skies - and the biodome scientists realized there was less oxygen and more carbon back before sin altered the earth's surfaces. In fact the reduction of O2, mixing the air quality close enough to biblical statements, effectively creating a scaled living version of the world and it's animals
    - Birds, snakes, lions, owls, some pure rivals introduced as well, along with fish..;well the scientists couldn't figure out why known enemies weren't killing each other, and they never seemed hungry. It turns out that the sin-free air quality proved a physical reaction to eliminate violence.

    This leads into more proof of why scientists accept Darwinism and evolution over the facts of creation.
    When the Earth was flooded for all that time, destroying the unsavable humans - the affects of lasting sin, which is anything that negatively affects what has been created - like moss on trees, vines on other trees and plants, rust, corrosion, disease, the earth became tainted, far from the paradise it was - So the main POINT HERE IS THE SAMPLES SCIENTISTS USE for carbon dating, are not accurate representations of the original earth. It is as simple as tainted evidence - actually tampered-with evidence because the evil one has made sure to destroy all that will keep humans' eyes off of the truth, which makes us the mortal lifespan of flesh-controlled lives with dying bodies entangled with the importance of having good and safe times, avoiding pain and injuries, caring so much for only what's in front of us because that's how the ruler of this world programmed it. Relying on the self, not realizing there's an entirely unseen world, battling for your attention.

    I really - really tried to put myself as an animal. namely an ape, but even though darwin noticed some adaptive reactions in animals, prolonging their lives or survival rate - it's just not possible that humans, which are created to be the only one of you ever to live here, so you can realize that is how much effort He put into your creation - that's right you are the only you to ever be here - there's no dead replicas -that weren't survivable as the fittest. There's no missing link from ape to man - because we were created from the soil/clay of this earth- with God's breath breathed into us as the life force.

    Humans are the only beings that lose weight at the time of death - 20 grams- the apparent amount our spirit weighs while on earth.
    Dogs have personalities, but they are not eternal beings like us. There will be similar animals in heaven, probly the same type you had here.

    So we have Christ taking back dominion of the earth after defeating all the forces of negativity in hell, after being beaten for hours - the third day famously witnessed by over fifty people, walks out that grave cave, a brand new chapter begins - because now He knows everything a human can experience - which He didn't know in the Old Testament - causing Him to anger easily at his pitiful humans, but since Christ paid that earthquaking and the heavens-shaking  completely true of heart-sacrifice anyone or thing could ever hope to do.

    He is the only person to ever have lived as human and a God, been perfect as both, AND does not have bones in the ground, meaning He is an eternal being that

    And I'm not joking when I say He would do it gain if everyone was decieved by the devil and it was only you left on earth to save- yep - He would go through that suffering again - even just for one of His children.

    Alright! I should publish this huh!! I written about only facts of God, no opinions or preaching, but one principle needs to shine through because it is a UNIVERSAL LAW whether you believe it or not, which is seed, time, and harvest. The Godly life has an order that is comparable to farming. Research the keywords seed, time, and harvest, and the ways in which we receive godly instruction will become clear.
    Except the unsaved cannot understand the Revelation Knowledge in the Bible - and I know first hand as it was only after being saved - that when reading, whole wolrds of understanding opened up and I experienced the realization that God was teaching me, rather the Holy Spirit, here on earth, guiding me as I read any parts of the Bible.
    I see it as a body we have, then a mind or soul, but then a spirit which is indestructable, created by the Almighty as eternal beings.

    Like right now I really want to stop writing but there's another point that someone will benefit from reading, I can see it plain as day, and need to mention the big picture about the big bang theory, it is just 100% impossible to have such order, and intelligent operational languages like physics and all of the mathematical disciplines showing proof of order - simply impossible stemming from an explosion.

    Another principle is God set forth everything affecting our lives like gravity keeping us from flying into space, radio waves providing communications, all of these are laws that are in place on autopilot,there or us to learn with.

    And much like gravity holding us to the ground without force, The Almighty is waiting patiently at the "door" waiting for you to knock in your search for truth - as a gentleman, not commanding anything against your free will as a ruling dictator.
    So I'm far beyond self-conscious, never written in length on this subject - but I can tell there are some people that needed the clarifications.

    SO, I've blasted out an entire page or two!!! Well - sorry it was your space, I'm sure you'll delete it pretty soon, no prob - I started with responding to your post - and then it grew into writing with a diverse group with multiple races and cultures in mind - anyway, this is the  proof. I wouldn't have taken this time unless I knew for sure of its facts because i have experienced the presence of God, and can say that Intelligent design is what holds the world together as more things happen, leading our existence toward enlightenment - or destruction.

    1. Elijah7 profile image60
      Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      STATEMENT OF THE TRUE FAITH AND HOLY PRAYER FOR ALL ATHEIST READERS IN THESE FORUMS IN JESUS' ALMIGHTY HOLY NAME - AMEN :

      "God is A Spirit and He IS Eternally Present Everywhere. He IS The Invisible, Almighty Creator of The Universe and The Father of JESUS Christ, The Redeeming Lord In Heaven.

      Father God, In The Precious Holy Name of Thy Son JESUS, we HAVE ploughed, seeded and watered these self-confessed lost souls in this arena. We love them and we Know that You Love them MORE.

      Release them ALL In Thy Holy Timing, LORD God. Release them from the evil clutches of satan, By Shining Thy Perfect Light Upon the Planted Seeds, and Father, In JESUS' Holy Name, Please GIVE THE INCREASE, and Save their Souls, For The Glory of Your Son and the defeat of The Devil and to Honour The Work of Thy sons, daughters and servants herein. Thank You JESUS. Thank You JEHOVAH, Thank You Blessed Holy Ghost - Amen & Amen"

      † 1 Timothy 1 : 17 †

      "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."


      http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6710582_f248.jpg

    2. Randy Godwin profile image95
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Who are you responding to?  We've heard this garbage a 1000 times on here.  The creation sites you visit will not help you learn about scientific facts, dude.  Talk to the person who posts all of the colorful text and pictures below your post.  I'm sure it will be glad to share fantasies with you about creationism.  No intelligent person cares to waste their time on this nonsense. roll

                                     http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

      1. Elijah7 profile image60
        Elijah7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Inteelllliegeent???

        DURR....

        All your cattle came from NOWHERE...

        Ever heard of the ORIGINAL PAIRS OF EACH SPECIES IN THE BEGINNING...

        Even our Golden Retriever KNOWS THIS.....

        Woof....

        Randy - watch THIS video (3.5 minutes) UNLESS YOU ARE SCARED ??

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIm85YuplJ8

        Genesis 2 : 7

        "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."


        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6711352_f248.jpg

  30. aravindb1982 profile image92
    aravindb1982posted 4 years ago

    The fact of the matter is, everything is divine - you , me everything that we see around. Experience this oneness with everything and you experience the divine. What one calls God, the other calls consciousness, science calls conscious energy and so on.

    God or energy or Beauty, or Awareness is an experience that is highly personal...

    If you have delved into the latest String theory, you will understand what am saying. String theory is not yet fully accepted as scientific. But the magic is, if one has faith in its postulates and does calculations, it indeed yields perfect results. But there is no way of 'scientifically' verifying its postulates. So, what does one do when 'faith' seems to provide solutions while lack of it and failure to use the equations does not?

    String Theory is God - as you and me are also.

    If you are seriously interested in this question, search for it with intensity in the realms of experience. Like the taste of any food which only has to be experienced, God or Energy or Awareness or Consciousness ( call it anything else that you like - the devil also) has to be experienced.

    NO amount of discussion will help...

    Hope that helps....

    Love and Light

  31. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    If you consider the fact that the biblical description of God is identical to the scientific description of Energy, then, I would suggest that, Yes, there is scientific evidence of God. The scientists don't want to admit it, and, strangely, religion doesn't want to admit it either...I think they like to argue.

 
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