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The Non-Meaning of Existence

  1. A.Villarasa profile image79
    A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago

    Some scientists, with astro-physicists leading the charge, have gone out on a limb  to say flatly  that the formation of the Universe had nothing to do with God(or any such Supernatural Being), but  with the simplest  mechanics of quantum physics involving sub-atomic particles i.e photons, electron, neutrons (and their elemental structure called quarks)  interacting  in some ways to produce what we now perceive as the cosmic world that we now inhabit. If as they aver,  an M theory (unified Theory)  could explain everything that  happens in the Universe, with that theory basically infering that the Universe was not any grand design by an intelligent entity. If so, what that does mean for our existence, except that we are just  a happenstance formation of Hydrogen/Carbon/Nitrogen that happened  to evolve into a volitional, sentient, creative,  beings whose existence may not mean much.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
      Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Nothing else.  That's pretty much it. smile

      1. A.Villarasa profile image79
        A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Then why are you smiling? Seems to me that one should be morose after being told that life is as empty as a tin can.

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
          Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Actually quite the opposite.  I'd rather decide my own "purpose" than have one dictated to me.

          1. A.Villarasa profile image79
            A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Of Course, being human,  you  have the cerebral capacity to design your own utility, irregardless of  what learned men of science (your fellow humans I might add)  say, i.e that there was no grand design or purpose for the big bang, and every event that followed  thereafter down to the creation of life on earth.

            Which lead me to a rhetorical question. If  the formation and evolution of life on earth (or any other planets out there that might be located in what scientist call the Goldilock zone of   a solar system much like ours) was just a random event, albeit a lucky  one, why even produce a specie (Homo Sapiens) that  evolved with the brain that  has allowed  it  to ask the when and the how, but most importantly the why of his existence?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              LOL

              Your question is meaningless. There is no reason. You think your question has some importance outside your own mind?

              How arrogant.

              1. A.Villarasa profile image79
                A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And I suppose that is the reason why you exist..because from your perspective your life is as meaningless as the air that emanates from your posterior.

            2. Ron Montgomery profile image61
              Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Why must there be a why?

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Because Ron, all questions do have answers. wink

                1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
                  Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Because everything happens for a reason?

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's one way you could look at it. I prefer to look at as, a question asked must have an answer. If you can ask a question regardless of how (in)sane the question, it can be answered, accepting the answer is another story.

        2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Life isn't empty, unless you live it that way.

          Only death is empty...well not really empty, just the end.

          1. A.Villarasa profile image79
            A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            When and if you live a "life that is full", and death ends it, is there somehow, something to look forward to?... you know a  kind of  light after you crossed the bar.  A very wise man, Lord Alfred Tennyson, seemed to think so.

    2. paradigmsearch profile image89
      paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I likewise think that we are even less than trivial in the grand scheme of things. Sure, from our perspective, we are important. But as relates to the universe, our importance is ranked right up there with bacteria.

      1. eternals3ptember profile image59
        eternals3ptemberposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah but when we're gone, bacteria will live on... So maybe even less xD

      2. A.Villarasa profile image79
        A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I am now hearing a lot of halleluiahs from my petri dished bacterium friends after they read your post.

    3. Living Well Now profile image79
      Living Well Nowposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why ask why?

      Purpose inheres in the mind. Your existence doesn't require anything more than having parents. Your existence has nothing to do with meaning. Meaning is something you give to your existence, not the other way around. You were brought into existence by two intelligent entities. Isn't that enough? Why add a third, or a fourth, or a fifth, or ...

      1. A.Villarasa profile image79
        A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Humans have the temerity and the perspicacity to continually and persistently ask  not only the when and how  and most importantly the why of things.

    4. kess profile image61
      kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      This present existence operates in this way...
      Death unto death, Life unto Life. Or
      Ignorance unto ingnorance, knowing unto knowing.

      So therefore it is no surprise that many will only accept that the ignorance of death is the ultimate initiatiating cause of  their existence.

      They are death and will their lives will be the fulfilment of their  father Death. So their sense of purpose for living will never transcend the grave.

      Those of life will know that Life which is knowledge is the initiating cause of their existence...this existence they also know, was already present at the moment of initiation of this present existence and would remain even the curtains are drawn on it.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
        Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        http://awkwardlistdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/listening_dog.jpg

        1. A.Villarasa profile image79
          A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          A very skeptical canine.... priceless.

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
            Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            He is puzzled by Kess's post.

            1. eternals3ptember profile image59
              eternals3ptemberposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Or he's wondering where the ball went:

              *pretend to throw the ball*

    5. profile image80
      soumyasrajanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There is another piece of statistics which might interest you in this context. That also does not have any controversy about creationism or evolution etc.

      I am not trying to make any statement against, God playing role in any of this - at least  as far as I know  in science one generally does not study  such questions which you are sort of wondering about -- "God  or some supernatural being has some thing to do with creation of universe or not"

      Simply because as far as I know,   currently used tools in science are enough to study such question - for example in Physics time being one tries to study  only objects moving at most with speed of light. (One assumes in physics models that nothing travels faster than light -  essentially that says  these models are not suitable for studying universe in which some thing can travel faster than that)

      So I do not know on what basis some body said the following
      "Some scientists, with astro-physicists leading the charge, have gone out on a limb  to say flatly  that the formation of the Universe had nothing to do with God(or any such Supernatural Being)" 

      What ever models are used in science for universe - scientists are quite aware that they leave a lot of questions which do not have clear answers.

      Generally at least good scientists are much more careful about their statements - they make statements only after a proper study.

      But this information again coming from science which has less to do with God questions still may be quite interesting  while considering such questions - role of humans and how important they may be in universe --

      "if you took the entire population of humans, and squished all the space out of them, they would fit inside a sugar cube

      the nucleus of the atom compare to the atom is like
      a nickel compare to a baseball stadium"

      and the basis for such statement is
      "Most of the occupied part of an atom is in the nucleus, which is about 10^-5 times the diameter of the atom, and 10^-15 times the volume. If the nucleus were 100% full, the atom would be 99.999,999,999,999,9% empty space. We don't know how much of the nucleus is empty, but I would guess it is about as empty as the rest of the atom. In that case, the atom is about 99.999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,9… empty space."

      link for the above interesting discussion is
      http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index … 908AAMpnj9


      Wonder what do you feel about it-
      this whole universe it seems consists of mainly empty space - matter - substance in human beings all  of them joined together is just a little larger than sugar cube?

      Does it imply how much really human being matter in the universe?
      If not them who matters may be question?

      1. A.Villarasa profile image79
        A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        According to the same astro-physicists (Stephen Hawking being one of them) the universe is expanding (Hubble proposed the idea, and has been proved correct via measurements of the difference in the visible light spectrum emanating from distant galaxies)  i.e galaxies are moving further apart from each other, and what is making them so is the  presence of "dark energy" in what seemed empty space between those galaxies.

        Now they are also proposing the possiblity of not one but million other universes(multiverse), thus the potential for intelligent life on other solar/planetary systems is multiplied by a factor too unimaginable to contemplate. Thus Humans in their  earthly  corner  located in a distant arm of the Milky Way Galaxy holds no claim to being the center of the universe or any universe for that matter.

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No, just a bunch of gullible people running around rampant claiming humans are special for some odd reason. hmm

          1. profile image80
            soumyasrajanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes I agree - nice

          2. A.Villarasa profile image79
            A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Rare is the human who does not look at his existence in an egoccentric manner. Man's ego has been bruised enough by the realization that he is not the center of the Universe, and now to be told that his formation was never an intentional event, but rather the result of cascading events that , in all its multiplicity and complexity  had randomness written all over it, starting with the Big Bang down to the  formation of galaxies and the star systems that form those galaxies. to the initiation of  intelligent  life on a  small planet  humans call  home. It's just too much to take, and for those who believe in Divine Intervention,  the probity of these  scientific theories are suspect, to say the least.

            1. Cagsil profile image60
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              To say the least.

  2. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 4 years ago

    Last time I checked, you give your life meaning.

    1. A.Villarasa profile image79
      A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The last time I checked I still do.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I guess the bigger question is what meaning are other people perceiving about your actions versus what you think your own actions mean?

        Are they both the same? Or different?

        1. A.Villarasa profile image79
          A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Your question is irrelevant. Meaning,  as with beauty is always in the eyes ( or in the mind) of the beholder. What matters most is, if my intentions and actions led to a result that is acceptable (morally, ethically, or aesthetically)  both  to myself and the people perceiving my actions.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol lol *shakes head side to side - palm to face*

            1. A.Villarasa profile image79
              A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Explain why you think my answer to your question stunned you to disbelief.

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                First you make the claim that the questions I posted were irrelevant. Then you proceeded to tell me that "meaning" is like beauty, as it is in the eye of the beholder- which isn't truth. Purpose works like beauty because it's suited to the individual. Meaning isn't.


                Edit: the questions were quite relevant. If you had the ability to see past yourself, you would have understood the questions and their relevance.

                1. A.Villarasa profile image79
                  A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Now it's my turn to be stunned. I still maintain that your question is irrelevant.....for the same reason that you think I don't have the ability to see past myself. My answer infers that in all matters of human interactions, what might be meaningful to me may not necessarilty be meaningful to you... thus the subjective nature of "meaning" and the  intentions and actions  emanating  from it.

                  If you disagree with that formulation... it's your prerogative. But to infer that I am being narcissistic by  labeling your questions irrelevant  is stunning.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You must spend an awful lot of time being stunned. "Meaning" and "Meaningful to me" are not the same thing at all. The former is constant (except where religious zealots such as yourself are trying to obfuscate and prove their mental superiority in the face of overwhelming evidence against), the latter is subjective to you.

                    It is a concept and personal to you only. Like a god. wink

  3. Disappearinghead profile image88
    Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago

    For a blind universe to produce a wonderful sentient bunch of beings that can marvel at its glory, but then one day they have passed into nonexistence; seems like the universe is playing a sick joke, made sicker because it is oblivious to our existence.

    It makes no sense to me unless there is a God whatever flavour religion one chooses to follow.

    1. Living Well Now profile image79
      Living Well Nowposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The mind needs a brain to function. When the brain dies the emergent property of mind goes with it. What seems sick is for entities beyond the natural - gods if you will - to allow physical suffering and pain if the physical form is unnecessary.

      And what of our evolutionary ancestors and animal cousins? Are they just a means to an end who pass into nonexistence suffering pain and death as we do? We marvel at the numinous and we are repulsed by the cruelty and evil. Are gods who are oblivious to the starving, diseased infants and children who wants for food, water, shelter and love worthy of worship? Where were the gods during the Holocaust? The Rape of Nanking, the Trail of Tears? What a wicked, sick, cruel game existence would be if gods were real.

      1. A.Villarasa profile image79
        A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The gods  you are referring to do not exist.... but have utility in the narrative of man's creativity, by conceptualizing his existence via mythologies and theologies.

        If those mythologies/theologies lead to ideas and ideals that make his existence more meaningful and fitful, then they have served their purpose

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hitler believed he was doing God's work.

          That the sort of thing you are talking about?

          1. A.Villarasa profile image79
            A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hitler was delusional. If you did not know that...how come I am noy the least surprised.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
              Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You're not helping your case with such a statement...

              1. A.Villarasa profile image79
                A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You dont know Mark Knowles, do you?

                1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
                  Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, not personally...I do recognize self-inflicted wounds when I see them posted though
                  yikes

                  1. A.Villarasa profile image79
                    A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks for your concern, but I'm not suicidal....metaphorically or otherwise.

        2. Living Well Now profile image79
          Living Well Nowposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And what if those mythologies lead to hate and intolerance? Does it matter if they originated in the Stone Age, Bronze Age or New Age? I think not.

          Let's assume gods exist. Whether there are .1, 1, 10 or an infinity^10 of them doesn't matter. Why bring into existence a universe with 100 billion galaxies containing an average of a hundred billion stars so that 13.7 billion years into its expansion, a great ape, on one of the trillions of planets, could branch from the evolutionary Tree of Life and form hundreds of religions and thousands of religious sects that deny the existence of the other's gods?

          Now, in order to get to this perfect place in time - call it the Cheshire Zone - billions of years of evolution had to occur leaving the fossilized remains from the ancestors of those great apes - including fossil fuels, which will only power the apes' technology to spread their beliefs for a few hundred years. After that, the limited resources will lead to a drastic reduction in the apes' population and evolution will bring to an end the species of homo sapiens.

          As we leave the Cheshire Zone, the planet the apes live on will warm and the sun it revolves around will grow larger, enveloping the extinct apes home world until it is blown away with sun's outer atmosphere 5 billion years from now. Forty billion years after the gods brought the universe into existence, it will die. Even the subatomic interactions between matter will cease. And for what purpose? So the unknown gods could be worshiped by long-extinct apes who existed and suffered as a species for 5-7 million years on one of trillions of planets?

          Why?

          1. A.Villarasa profile image79
            A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Man made mythologies (and theologies for that matter) have in fact been used by humans to inflict pain and suffering on his fellow humans. Man's earthly history is littered by layer upon layer of the debris and detritus of the wars that man has waged on each other based solely on myths and religious beliefs.

            I would argue that,  in this our century,  myths and religious beliefs have become less and less a factor in the chaos that man has brought upon each other. Ideologies, be they political, cultural/tribal, and economic  have become the central  etiologies of almost  all of the major wars  (W W 1and W W 11) and regional wars (Korea, Vietnam, The Balkans, The Middle East) of the 20th century.

            Now that we are at the dawning of the 21st century, it looks like  more of the same.

            Your allegorical tale is not too allegorical since it has happened here on earth, and maybe somewhere else in the universe, where similarly predisposed  supposedly intelligent entities exist. I must tell you though that your script would make for a blockbuster Hollywood movie... titled, "The Apocalypse 2"

            1. Living Well Now profile image79
              Living Well Nowposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I appreciate the comment. The "script" isn't just my opinion, it's supported by facts.

              Best of luck to you.

  4. Druid Dude profile image59
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Al...Cag thinks the universe revolves around him. Meaning and purpose is suited to the individual...he doesn't get that you said the same thing. 'Eye of the beholder' IS the individual.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Druid, do me and yourself a favor.

      Quit talking about me and making false statements.

    2. Druid Dude profile image59
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Just going by what you said. And don't threaten me pal.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Threaten you? WOW! Talk about absurd. roll

        1. Druid Dude profile image59
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          My point, exactly...that's why you shouldn't do it. So you don't deny that I was only talking about what you said before.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The fact that you claim I made a threat is what is absurd. Do you even think? WOW!

  5. Druid Dude profile image59
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    You are attempting to change the focus here. I stated an 'opinion', that Cagsil thinks the universe revolves around Cagsil...you got bent. So...get bent. Easy enough. Spend your whole day that way.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I got bent?

      I told you to do me and yourself a favor. Quit talking about me and making false statements. How is that a threat? Answer the question.

      You're the one baiting people in the forums. Not me.

  6. Druid Dude profile image59
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Do what I do...blow it off. You still haven't denied that the statement you made concerning the forum subject was totally in agreement with what A.V. was saying, and that you simply were not comprehending. Just admit it. I said that about you and the universe because SO MANY of your statements tends to support this observation. Move on.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      roll

  7. Druid Dude profile image59
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Now, back on subject. A.V. I still maintain that mankind has set itself upon a mission: To rise above what we were, to quell the animal nature, and become more than the sum of our parts, this is why the search for God lies, not in the past or in some man written book (Although, there is much there that has been overlooked) but, rather in the future, further down the path away from our primitive beginnings, away fro the Garden. Our path is forward, into the unknown, continually striving to rise above what we are. We were the meal, now we are the chefs. We, as carbon based life have been, and are, under pressure, and as such, our 'purpose' is to become 'more perfect' as a diamond of a lifeform, surpassing all man has ever done...to find that there will always be more Everests to conquer, more frontiers to cross. Cross them all, and new ones will appear. That is why, as evidenced by the Olympics, that man is faster, better than ever before. The real test is for us to live on this finite planet. To continue, things really do have to change.

    1. A.Villarasa profile image79
      A.Villarasaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Well said Dude and I can only say Amen.

  8. Druid Dude profile image59
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Mark, your attempts to categorize that which defies categoration is really lame. I'm surprised that you can see someone elses righteousness through the self righteousness which is blinding you. Someone discusses a real aspect of existence, and all you can do is focus on religion. I still think you would fit in real welll in a church setting.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry you didn't understand. Maybe lying about being a Druid dunnit?

      lol lol

      How brave of you to be yourself - oh - wait.................. LOLOLOL Dun I defy categorization? Iz I too hard fer yer ter unnerstand?

      1. Druid Dude profile image59
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So...is Ice Tea lying...he obviously isn't ice, and I'm sure you'll agree that he's not tea. Did Buddy Holley play with 'Crickets'? Were the Beatles insects? Hell, even the 'Beach Boys' weren't really beach boys! You focus on some of the most idiotic stuff. GROW UP.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          How brave of you. Well done you DRUID you!

          Same as Ice Tea I guess......... Like Lady Gaga prolly.

          Little wonder your religion causes so many fights.

          What is your name again?

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