Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
This quote indicates that the creation of evil is an ongoing process by God and that he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him.
As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the concept of God is all myth.
Literal and historic belief did not generally come about till about the years 80. 50 years after the death of Jesus. In fact, Jesus was not declared divine till the Trinity concept was accepted, by the force of Constantine in 380.
Having said this, I recognize why the ancient thinkers would say that God is pleased when he creates evil in the world.
Do you understand how and why God gains pleasure from creating evil and sin?
If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?
If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?
You are a gnostic Christian who doesn't believe in God? That's really odd.
As to the rest of your statement. I wouldn't assume your reference to the passage in Revelation necessarily indicates that God is actively creating evil. Creation with the capacity for evil seems possible. And, maybe that means God finds pleasure in watching evil get thwarted. Kind of like the road runner/coyote on a cosmic scale.
Wouldn't your gnosticism with a Christian flair give you some insights on the logic of Christian writings?
Most Gnostics Christians do not believe in the miracle working absentee God that Christians believe in. We do believe in a God within each of us though.
The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.
“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”
This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.
During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.
The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.
I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.
I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.
Yes. We do think we have insights into the God of the bible but reverse much of what Christians believe.
Nice post. I think we have a lot in common on the way we perceive things on a cosmic scale and how it does/doesn't affect this reality. All except for the apotheosis part. I know what I know that I know; but I came to my conclusions as an humble human just mulling things over in my mind.
People create their own evils and act upon them as any opportunist would.
If you believe God is a myth it makes no sense that you would ask such a question?
In saying that if you were interested in an answer wouldn't we need to first agree on a definition of God.
I doubt we all have the same definition so any answers may be meaningless to those who understand God differently?
So did I.
It was just confirmed for me and no one was more surprised by it.
You will not see me push for belief in this. I only give it as an anecdotal rendering. I cannot ask people to doubt and test all things while asking any to believe in what cannot be proven.
Let me tweak your thinking with this to see if we can get even closer to the same page.
When this was written, most thought it to just be a cynical view of life but I think it is quite true and irrefutable, based on the anthropic principle.
What do you think?
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
Created here I attribute to nature. Not a mythical God.
It is also inadvertent and not by a thinking nature.
Evil is created by men that do not know what in the hell they are talking about.
All have sinned so you condemn the whole world.
Typical Christian view and wrong.
You do not recognize the good of evil.
Untill all do, we will not reduce it's impact.
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.
That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."
But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.
Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that it is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.
Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.
Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.
Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.
This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.
Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.
There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.
"he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him."
King James Bible
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for I am sorry that I have made them.
Thanks for pointing out how evil and genocidal bible God is.
Quite the prick eh?
No morals either.
A God who can just as easily cure as kill choosing to kill is not worth following. Right?
I suspect if mankind stops giving God reasons to kill then he'll stop when we do.
I had a devastating comment to post here, but what's the use?
I believe in equilibrium however when it comes to God creating evil it really doesn't say that because he really belives in the good for the man kind. But everyone is entitiled to their opinion
Jesus Christ, is everyone that posts here just plain Supid or what?????
I dunno, you're included in the "everyone that posts here" category, so you tell us.
If I didn't think that I was wastings my time I would reply.
God is not not some big daddy looking down on earth and laughing about all the suffering.
God does not do Evil, nor does Mother Nature.
Is lying evil?
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.
No, lots of them are just jerks. You'll be in great company.
So "all" in scriptures means "some".
Thanks for showing your defective gramatical understanding.
Who is God's co-creator?
Pleasure in creating evil? Somehow I think you've slipped a cog in your reasoning.
Interpretation is everything and so many interpret poorly. And so have you!
How do you explain a universe that has no space, time, energy or matter? It's beyond human (mortal) experience. The mechanics of creation are counter-intuitive. Most mortals would really screw that one up with their interpretations, just as they would trying to interpret nuclear physics or electronic engineering.
Too many view God's acts of violence to be evil and immoral. But they think God's children are Homo sapiens. Duh! They're not! "Man" was created in God's image (Gen 1:26). Only later was man created from the dust of the ground (chemicals; Gen 2:7).
What is evil? Evil springs from ego and "importances." Ego turns away from God and holds "self" above all else. That is the seductive trap.
Who created evil? The little creators (baby gods) who turned away from their Father in Heaven. They started out good, but got curious about other ways of doing things. They thought that their way was better than God's way. And they got lost in the action-reaction-based continuity of physical reality.
They've even gotten pretty good at making their evil sound "good." But excrement by any other name smells just as bad.
"What is evil? Evil springs from ego and "importances."
I am a jealoys God.
The first commandment shows God's super ego and importance and much evil has sprung from him so I agree with you completely.
You are right that interpretation is everything and yours here is right on the money against God.
Yo! Greatest...why not just admit that you don't have a clue what God is doing or why.
I admit to not being able to fathom the unfathomable mythical bible God.
Christians should be so honest.
This one is at least.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AfFcAmx … ure=relmfu
It's not the bible that gives me headaches...it is the christian version which I find problematic. I see the O.T. more as man psycho-analyzing man. The N.T. is twelve guys trying to describe something which they themselves never fully understood...especially Peter.
I see that the God of the O.T. has all of the same character 'flaws' as man. He gets angry, he's jealous, vengeful, but, not only the flaws, for he's sympathetic, loving, forgiving, etc. Man mirrors God (or vice versa). The reality of God in respects to man , even from the teachings of Jesus, is that God dwells inside of us. God knows what we think, God hears and sees what we see and hear. If these things are true (and more, for God is the AUTHOR of our thoughts, which, by the way, are the only good or evil things in existence) then, I submit that we are the infamous omnipresent epitome of, noneother than, GOD. And that is what the O.T. is REALLY about.
So...in the forums, if I say God explained it to me...well, you get the picture. Therefore, I can say whatever Jesus said, nothing excluded...nothing, and, according to personal observation, even the most outlandish statement. 'I am the son of God' becomes true and acceptable...even in psychiatric circles, because, if God dwells in me, and you, and your mother, and your father, then you, are the son of God. And nobody can disagree. Either I'm a flippin' genius...or God is. Not sure which way it is...but that no longer matters.
The atheists think I'm a christian, and the christians think I'm satan...or his son! I love it when a prophecy comes together!.
I am between that rock and a hard place as well.
I see you as a good candidate for my ilk. That of a Gnostic Christian.
You might check them out.
To them and myself, God is within.
Just not the genocidal son murderer that the bible and the believers think is a good God. I do not. He is a prick and I am being kind here.
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