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Would a Christianity Without Hell be More Appealing to Atheists?

  1. Robert Erich profile image88
    Robert Erichposted 4 years ago

    I have noticed that many atheists and anti-Christians (as can be seen from the most active forums on Hubpages), have a huge distaste for Christianity primarily because of the contradiction between there being a loving God and an eternal hell-fire for those who do not do what he wants.

    From my study of the Bible there is actually NOT an eternal hell for those who do not wish to be with God. If someone is interested in not being Christian for other reasons, than by all means, keep it up, however, if it is solely because of the belief that God cruelly torments the "bad" forever, I hope we can overcome that.

    It's fascinating, the first lie that the devil ever told, was the lie to Eve in the garden "If you eat of this fruit, you will not surely die" (Genesis 3:4). That same lie has been embraced by the world today, believing that it is impossible for the soul to die - it simply moves to Heaven or Hell after its time on earth.

    I would love to hear other people's thoughts on this issue. Wanting to gain a better understanding of life after death and how that effects people's view of God.

    1. mbwalz profile image88
      mbwalzposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Seems to me that Atheists don't believe in a higher power. I do, and respect those that don't (as long as they respect that I do.) So it would follow that Atheists should not care if there is a heaven or hell or what God is like. They don't believe in God at all and so the rest is a mute point.

      Those who claim to be Atheists because of the existence of Hell or a mean God, seem to be taking a very ignorant approach to understanding Christianity or any other faith (since presumably, you are not an Atheist because you hate Christianity but that you don't believe in a higher power from any religion.) Many Christians don't believe in Hell Fire and Damnation but still manage to believe in God. Many other religions don't have hell at all.

      Atheists who spend their time bashing people because they believe in "fairy tales" or a God that kills people with nature are just as ugly as those from any other religion telling people that all other religions are "false."

      1. Robert Erich profile image88
        Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with you on many points here. I think that the biggest problem is a lack of respect from either side.

        Just as many atheists would hate being told they had to worship, they should respectfully permit those that want to worship to do so. Sadly it seems that so many people have to go to an extreme - we struggle to respectfully discuss issues and learn from our differences.

        Thanks for sharing.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't know of any atheist who are atheist because of the threat of hell, but it's what we are told when a Christian finds out we are atheist. Atheist are sometimes seen as the anti-christ. I personally have been called that a few times in these forums and we are seen as Satan attempting to discredit the bible. Atheist don't knock on doors an try save a soul and we generally don't like being lied too and we feel, being told believe in God or go to hell is a threat. Atheists would like real science taught in school and find it irritating when Christian try to tell us the world is 4000 - 6000 years old and want that taught in school.

          So, it certainly works both ways and Christians may sometimes feel attacked by Atheists, but mostly it's the other way around.

          1. Robert Erich profile image88
            Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks for your input Rad Man! (I like the name by the way)

            That's a very good point. It's a bummer that more people who claim to be Christians don't act like the Christ they say that they follow. He treated everyone with love - regardless of how they treated him.

            As for your science comment, I am one of those people who believe that the world may not be that old, however, I do not believe that Christianity is in place of science.

            There is no proof of when the world began, it is all speculation. Therefore, I believe that it requires an element of faith either way. If a Christian claimed that they could fly, and couldn't prove it, they would be going against science. However, the Big Bang is not science. Until we can test it and make it happen again, it requires the same amount of faith as saying that the world was designed.

            I believe in science. I believe in proof. But when I must make a decision between two speculations, at this point, I am more drawn to the one that explains we were made as opposed to just appearing. That is easier for me to believe.

            And again, I sincerely appreciate your openness here. Thank you for sharing.

            1. getitrite profile image81
              getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So, then, explain what made whatever it was that made us.  I don't think your position makes any sense, on any penetrating level.  This is surface thinking.  If a creator can be eternal, then so can everything else.

              Of course we could have been created by something or someone(just like man created the atomic bomb) but that could have been anything or anybody, and doesn't have to be a God.

              1. Robert Erich profile image88
                Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Does everything have to be eternal if a creator is? Think about the internet. I can create a website, design it the way I want, and then take it down later.

                Did I start when my website started? Do I have to end when my website ends? Not at all. Could it be that we are living 4 dimensional lives when there are many more that we currently don't experience?

                And as I've said, I can't prove my view of how things started. But then, you can't prove yours either. If either of us could, no one would discuss this.

                Basically, if we say that something can come from nothing, that is like saying that I can start the washing machine with nothing in it and open it up an hour later to see that a whole new wardrobe has just appeared. Very hard for be to believe.

                In my mind, when I look at the complexity of the human body, it is very hard to see how it happened by chance. For one cell to receive its nutrients necessary to survive, I need a respiratory system, digestive system, circulatory system, and nervous system. If just one of those was missing, my entire body would fall apart! How can that be explained by chance?

                And yes, I agree with your last paragraph. It could be some foreign life form that created us. This would then explain the complexity of life. But then, I suppose at the same time we must comprehend how those beings came to be.

                1. getitrite profile image81
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  ???????????????????//



                  Sorry, I'm just not following your analogy.



                  But your view is based in mythological nonsense.



                  Yet you are willing to believe that a silly book, written by dubious authors, with a whimsical, ridiculous and childish premise is the right view to have.  PULEEEAAASE!  It seems that you have no problem believing in things that are way more absurd than what you've written.



                  Do you know anything about the Theory of Evolution?



                  This is the most relevant comment you have posted.



                  You can't comprehend that.  It is beyond the scope of your finite condition.  But to default this to the writings of primitive goatherders is completely insane.

                  1. Robert Erich profile image88
                    Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I apologize if my analogy did not make sense.

                    I respect your opinion and will not try to sell you out of it.

                    Tell me, how does the theory of evolution explain life in a more logical, educated manner?

              2. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, if a Creator is eternal, then so can everyone else be.

                1. getitrite profile image81
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So you agree that there is no need for a CREATOR.

                  If everything is eternal there is no need to have a creator.  Right!

                  1. jacharless profile image81
                    jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That is not very logical.
                    Presently, the universe is infinite/eternal, ever expanding -and even increasing in speed at its outermost edge. A Creator had to fashion it -even to the most minute speck of whatever to cause it all to come into view. Therefore, even eternal needs creating, to sustain eternity. Still, eternity is a measure and it includes creation - both limited and infinite {i.e. stars form, stars explode; rain comes down, grass grows}. Creator would therefore be without and within eternity to maintain himself and his creation. There can be no complete separation. Where those connecting fibers are is perhaps the mystery. Could this be dark energy which accounts for 98% of the universe. It is fun to wonder about it, either way and certainly shows where religion must end and something else entirely begin. Unfortunately, a/theism and its maternal parent {in this case Christianity} are unable to see it this way.

                    James.

                  2. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I guess I didn't understand you correctly.

                    I thought you were making a statement of logic, which I agreed with. I was under no illusion you thought there was a Creator. But the statement as I understood it was that if a Creator is eternal, then so can everything else be, meaning that the cause (the eternal Creator) makes an effect (an eternal creation.)

                    My mistake.

                2. jacharless profile image81
                  jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Which is the sum-substance of human existence, in my opinion.
                  Why design such an outstanding creation, to commune with and fill with knowledge, imagination, ability -and even the power to wonder- and not give that creature the ability to maintain an infinite existence, precisely as it was designed.

                  One can always argue for the limitation, by evidence of death. But, can these same argue against the greater without evidence of life.

                  James.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree, although I think you said it better than I have.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Just because it's easier for you to believe does't make it so. It is harder to be an Atheist and know when you die, you die. I don't like it any more then you, but I prefer reality.

              As far as the big bang goes we don't really know how it started, the universe or us, but I can tell you the bible is completely wrong with the age of the universe. Proof is in the stars or the fact that you can see the stars. The hubble telescope can see star more then 15 billion light years away. That means that the light from the star left the star 15 billion years ago. The fact that the light has been traveling for 15 billion years shows that the universe is at the very least 15 billion years old. Something to think about.

              1. Robert Erich profile image88
                Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I appreciate your willingness to do something, even if it is not easy. That is very respectable.

                As for astronomy, you are absolutely correct. I don't see there being any problem with the stars having  been around for billions of years. The Bible even starts with "The earth was void and without form". Therefore, it was already around.

                Additionally, the Big Bang theory would suggest that everything expanded very quickly at the beginning. Therefore, in a matter of a couple of moments the planets and stars could have shot out billions of light years. Surely there would still be a light trail from these stars.

                I believe we have both justly stated that it is a matter of opinion. We both have our evidences, we both have our views.

                So I would just ask you, what if there was a God? Could it be that you don't want a God for some reason? If your views end up being wrong, how would you feel?

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  —the third day.

                  14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning.

                  You will notice that according to the bible the stars were made on the third day after he made plants and animals on the second day. Does that seem right to you? All science indicates an old earth. Science has no reason to lie. Christians do have motive to lie, to protect the legitimacy of the bible.

                  From what I understand of the big bang, in the explosion there were no planets or stars in the beginning, only elements that eventually formed into stars with planets.

                  To your last question, (what if there was a God? Could it be that you don't want a God for some reason? If your views end up being wrong, how would you feel?)

                  If it turns out there is a God then I'd be happy. I would just hope it's not the needy, vengeful God of the bible. No it is not the case that I don't want a God, you simple don't understand. I don't believe there is a God. If my views end up being wrong I would be happy. What about you? Would you feel silly? Your question shows how little understanding you have of anyone who doesn't think as you do.

                  1. jacharless profile image81
                    jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Which leads to a very interesting scenario:

                    Disregarding the literature, front to back, all elements within, would anyone not believe/believe in Creator, as well as the countless deities/anti-deities formed without that book?

                  2. Robert Erich profile image88
                    Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I won't go into it here, but it is stated that, when Genesis was written, people never doubted there to be a God. Therefore, it was not written in a way to prove itself. Moses wrote it. He was not there. You can google that more if you want a deeper answer.

                    And you know, I think I understand your side somewhat. I have struggled much in my life. I have had miserable things happen and hoped that there was not a Tod, because it would suggest he was evil. I have asked why, if there is a God, does he not help me at times when I need it.

                    But then I discovered two things:

                    1) my emotions do not determine whether or not there is a God. He either is, or isn't. And the idea of material, life, emotions, and thoughts all coming from absolutely nothing far harder for me to believe than believing that there is no God. At times believing there is no God seems more appealing, but it doesn't appear more intellectual.

                    2) spending more time in nature, reading the Bible, and thinking, I realized the purpose of knowing there is a God is not to make me rich, famous or handsome on earth. It is to give me the confidence that I have purpose and meaning.

                    Therefore, my logic has conclude that it is more likely there is a God. Science reveals it, emotion longs for it, and intellect rests on it.

                    Am I happy there is a Fod. Absolutely. I have realized life is better with a creator. Have I always felt that way? Not at all. There have been times that I have hoped there is no God.

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If every word in the Bible is true, then hell is a place no body want to go, So many Christian are liars about hell as it's the no. 1 membership reason to join

        Bible Translations about  Hell

                                                                     Old Testament              New Testament     Total

        "Authorized" King James Version                 31                    23                54
        New King James Version                              19                    13                32
        New International Version                               0                    14                14
        American Standard Version                            0                    13                13
        New American Standard Bible                        0                    13                 13
        Revised English Bible                                     0                    13                 13

        12 times in...
        New Living Translation,Amplified, Revised Standard Version, New Revised Standard Version, Darby, New Century Version

        1. Robert Erich profile image88
          Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You are absolutely right! People miss the point and run to a church because they are afraid of death. That's not the point at all!

          Firstly, the Bible does not state that people will be "alive" burning in hell forever. I mean, if you are burned to death, then you cannot be alive. Therefore, I believe that Hell is simply separation from God - which leads to death, not burning forever.

          Now, think about before you were born, did you feel pain, were you miserable? Not at all, there was NOTHING! Therefore, being dead is not that bad of an option if the alternative is to live in a place you do not want to be in.

          Finally, with this being said, if we look at God as a father who wants to be with his children, then his ultimate goal is not to slaughter them at all! He will let them make their own decisions, but he will not delight in making them miserable.

          A relationship with the God that created you, loves you, and will take you out of this pain-filled world is why one should desire to be in church.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Make their own decision? You die forever or burn forever, what other decision do we have other than be bored to death by hard Christians or fear god.

            Sounds way to unloving and bully to me

            1. Robert Erich profile image88
              Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I guess I see two options:

              1) There is no God and we are all going to die, regardless of anything.

              2) There is a God who loves us and provides us with the complete freedom to decide what we want to do. (Again, from my reading of the Bible and personal pondering, I do not believe in an eternal burning hell, I simply believe that we can choose to live or to die).

              And it sounds like you've been surrounded by some pretty boring Christians. That's a bummer for you and them. Life's too valuable to be boring.

          2. Jane Bovary profile image88
            Jane Bovaryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Where does it say in the Bible that non-believers will be oblivious before the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night.(Rev.14.10) ? If they are to have no rest, how can they be oblivious to the torment?

            Sounds like you're created your own version of God - one you would personally prefer as you are not describing the Biblical one, who is not adverse to slaughtering and tormenting people. The Bible is full of examples of Gods wrath.
            Up to you I guess but if you're going to superimpose your own God over the Biblical one...a) why be a Christian at all? and b) why would anyone else accept  as true, a version of God that you have seemingly plucked from your own imagination?

            I can understand that but then you go several steps further and are prepared to believe in a particular God with defined characteristics, when no-one can know or define what God, if there is one, is really like. That's what I can't understand.

    2. Cagsil profile image78
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No

    3. nightwork4 profile image60
      nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      any atheist with a brain knows that heaven and hell are a myth so why would this make christianity any more appealing. i think christians just can't except that fact that a lot of atheists are good people who make a good living, have families that love them etc.this is the reason, in my eyes that christians or any other religious group doesn't want to see that atheists aren't concerned with heaven, hell, sins, after-life and other the other things that christians act like they believe in.

      1. Robert Erich profile image88
        Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        True, if someone believes it is a myth, then it really doesn't matter. However, I have spoken with multiple people who don't believe because they can't see how God could be loving and torture people forever. It sounds as if you are not one of these people!

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It sounds to me like you are reaching out to theists with a grudge. No atheist would convert to Christianity simply if Christians accepted the insanity of the idea of hell.

          1. Robert Erich profile image88
            Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What would you then say are the reasons for people choosing to be atheist?

            1. Cagsil profile image78
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              One would be common sense. lol

              1. Robert Erich profile image88
                Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hahaha. I like your short answers Cagsil.

                However, what would be your common sense?

                If I go to bed with an empty wallet and wake up with $500 in it, which is more logical to believe, that it just appeared, or that someone put it in there.

                I prefer to follow common sense. If someone proves to me there is no God, I am willing to accept that. Additionally, if someone wants to believe that there is no God, I can accept that too. I do, however, question the logic of saying that the Big Bang is more logical.

                1. Cagsil profile image78
                  Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Good to know. However, very rarely do I ever provide short answers. lol
                  Is this a test?
                  Rationally speaking it must have gotten there with help from another human. To believe otherwise is irrational, ridiculous and beyond comprehension, unless you put it there and forgot which is the only other explanation which would work as well as the first I gave.
                  We'll see.
                  Before anyone can "prove" to you that there's no G/god, you must be able to understand a little bit of human development and history.

                  It's the "need" to believe vs being honest with yourself. The point being is that there's no actual need to believe in a G/god, unless the individual is unaware, dishonest and doesn't give a damn about other people.

                  The "proof" you require is in common sense-

                  (a) Life doesn't require any knowledge of any G/god to be understood.
                  (b) Life doesn't require any knowledge of any G/god to be lived.

                  Thus, no G/god required.
                  Why? Even random events have reasons for happening. lol

                  1. Robert Erich profile image88
                    Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I work in an urban community and there are a lot of kids here who don't know their fathers. They can still live, but not as fully.

                    a) Life doesn't require any knowledge of a father to be understood.
                    b) Life doesn't require any knowledge of a father to be lived.

                    However, this does not eliminate the need of a father for life to start in the first place, and I think that most people who have good fathers believe that having a father and knowing him has made life far more valuable and fulfilling.

                2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Robert Erich

                  Common sense would be like, over 80% of people that believe or think  there is a God in degrees. Or common sense is over 80% of people who think there is some degree of Evolution older than Creationism, the rock of ages

                  Uncommon sense would be a religion that believes they are the only right way and truth to God or Atheist who lack the belief of God.

                  To me, good sense is accepting there is in degree evolution and a form of higher power or energy. Which I do not claim to own or process to know, yet do come to a closer understanding about God.

                  The uncommon part of me is that I think everyone is God and we are all connected to the cosmos. Go ahead call me crazy, at lease I don't have too fight over it or disrespect anyone over it or worst  think most people will go to hell, or what ever they may think from their cherry picking book.

                  1. Robert Erich profile image88
                    Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Caslepaloma.

                    I will be the first to admit that I have a minimal understanding of God. Sadly, some Chrisitians do claim to have him all figured out and wrapped around their fire. This is sad because a God who you cannot control is far more impressive than one that you make up.

                    And I will not call you crazy for thinking you are a god. Most of us do - you can see it by the way we act and behave. These Christians you talk about who are treating people poorly. They believe they are god as well - they simply use "God" in place of "I".

                    Personally, I get very nervous when I think of myself as god. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. I just think that I would be a stupid god and the world would be in big trouble. I wouldn't even know where to start if I was designing a cherry tree from nothing.

                    I will respect your belief. And trust me, you do not need to explain it. I believe the same as you often.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              WE DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS A GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            3. cascoly profile image59
              cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              main one is simplicity - if you find no evidence FOR a god, why follow any cult that claims there is one?

        2. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That's just one of the contradictions atheists use, to try to get Christians to actually think about their belief, instead of blind acceptance.  It's not the reason atheists themselves don't believe. Atheists don't believe, because they've been unable to find adequate evidence of God's existence.  A book written by human beings (the Bible) isn't evidence.

          Even if Hell does not exist, how do you reconcile a God who told the Jews to commit genocide (he commanded them to annihilate the Canaanites so they could take over their land, and Saul to wipe out the Amalek, for instance).  There are lots of examples in the Old Testament of a merciless, even vicious God.

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So since the Jews were commanded to do it by God (although they didn't actually follow through,) then it's merciless and vicious, but if they had simply done it "just because" the way other cultures did, it would have been okay?

            I'm assuming not, it's just so often that when people talk about the "merciless and vicious God," that's how it comes across to me.

            1. Jane Bovary profile image88
              Jane Bovaryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well, we do expect a slighter higher standard from God...

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                True.

            2. Marisa Wright profile image93
              Marisa Wrightposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I don't see the logic in that.  The act is merciless and vicious no matter who does it, but the point is that a moral God would never condone it, far less instruct someone to do it.

              1. pennyofheaven profile image82
                pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Perhaps it is more useful to look at how God supposedly instructs and it might give us some valuable clues as to who is instructing and condoning.

    4. sen.sush23 profile image60
      sen.sush23posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If I were not an agnostic (or athiest, if that is understandable) I could be a Hindu, a Muslim, a Zorastrian, a Sikh, a Buddhist, a Jain, an Animist - what else?! Why does the question always have to be a choice between Christian and atheism? Can you not break out of the paradigm and realize that your Hell may be for Christians, but there are other Heavens and Hells too, to contend for the attention of atheists. big_smile

      1. 60
        nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Christians and atheists have been at it for years, there really is nothing to understand. Christians are really the problem though, their the only one's truly concerned about a hell. The other religions see hell for what it is: a perception.

        1. sen.sush23 profile image60
          sen.sush23posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Possible..

    5. pennyofheaven profile image82
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Contradictions are relative to the perceiver.

    6. Titen-Sxull profile image92
      Titen-Sxullposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There are different interpretations of Hell mainly because the Bible does not present a coherent idea of Hell.

      Jesus says that there will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth in hell, and says that people should fear God more than they fear anything else because only God can throw you body AND soul into Hell. The word he uses for Hell is Gehenna, which actually refers to an area in the wilderness where folks would throw their garbage to be burned.

      Later in the New Testament, in Revelations, we get Hell as the LAKE OF FIRE which is NOT referred to by the term Gehenna.

      It is unclear whether either of these is meant to be an eternal torment or whether the body and soul will both be annihilated.

      As an atheist taking away eternal Hell does absolutely nothing to make the Biblical God less evil or more likely to exist (since there is still no evidence for Yahweh).

      The Biblical God still:

      Condones slavery (Exodus 21)

      Kills innocent children in Egypt

      Commands genocide of entire civilizations including children (1 Samuel 15)

      Thinks that working on a Saturday should be punished by death (Exodus 35)

      Restricts freedom of religion with the first commandment and sets up a death penalty for anyone who tries to get others to follow another God. In fact according to God restricting freedom of religion, and murdering those who want you to convert to another religion, is so important that if your family member or best friend tries to convert you YOU must be the first into the fray when you EXECUTE THEM:

      "6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again."

      Deuteronomy 13:6-11

      The God of the Bible, and the laws that were set up therein, are evil, Hell or no Hell.

      Aside from the moral argument against God there is also the total lack of evidence for his existence, so even if he was suddenly not evil it wouldn't mean a damn thing.

    7. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I can't speak for other atheists, but whether there is supposedly a hell or not makes no difference to me. The reason I don't believe in God is because I have never seen one drop of evidence for his existence. Also the logic of the bible and other religious books is so bizarre that it is incomprehensible that the universe - which is mathematical in design - would reason like that...

    8. DzyMsLizzy profile image92
      DzyMsLizzyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hmm...Actually, I wonder--why does the Scarecrow's Song from "The Wizard of Oz" come to mind here.... .... ????

    9. kathleenkat profile image89
      kathleenkatposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No.

      You are missing the point of atheism. Atheists are against religion, all religion, and particularly organized religion. Whether or not you believe in a hell would not make your religion any more appealing to an atheist. We will not choose to believe, no matter what you have to say about it.

      1. jacharless profile image81
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Please, take no offense at this, but Atheists and Christians are actually quite identical.
        Oh, and ps, how did you get my cat to stand still for that photo? tongue

        James.

  2. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago

    People choose to be atheists because they don't believe in god. You don't choose because you are afraid of something you don't believe in.

    1. Robert Erich profile image88
      Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That is a good answer. I suppose I am seeking to find the reasons why someone would not believe in God. Perhaps the view of an evil God is one of those reasons, perhaps it is not.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The concept of an evil, vengeful and needy God is not why people don't believe in God, it is however one of the bible fallacies. The God of the bible is like the mafia. They knock on your door and ask for protection money from themselves. The God of the bible says praise me or I'll burn you in hell forever. Same thing, makes no sense.

        1. Robert Erich profile image88
          Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It could look that way if you take an individual story. However, if you read the entire Bible, or a book like John, it reveals quite the opposite.

          It shows a God who created humanity with freedom. Because of this freedom they cause pain to each other and to God. God is life and separation from  him is life. Therefore, because we cause pain to others we deserve death (as a murder or thief deserves prison). However, God didn't want to leave it that way, so he came, was beaten and killed by us (because someone had to die for the pain).

          He then promises to come back and end all pain and suffering.

          If you look at most stories in the Bible, it is not God that causes pain, it is man. God is the one who is being treated unfairly. (From a Bible point of view).

  3. 0
    Emile Rposted 4 years ago

    Your question makes me wonder. Would an atheism without Richard Dawkins be more appealing to Christians?

    1. 60
      nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The real question:

      Would christianity be more appealing to atheists, if Christians didn't rely on suppositions and exaggerated claims to defend their position?

      Atheists try to find nice ways to tell christians to lay off on the craziness, only when the voice of reason fails, does an atheist lose patience. Much like stone throwing theists, atheists too conform to human tendencies and illogical behavior.

      1. mbwalz profile image88
        mbwalzposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I have to say, it's your kind of disrespect that is so appalling,  nonto21, no matter what you believe. Using words like craziness, voice of reason, more adept at understanding theology are just plain prejudice.

        Faith is faith, it has nothing to do with reason and you can't apply the scientific method to "prove" it. There is nothing to prove! It's just as inane that atheists cite "no proof" as a reason God does not exist as it does for a radical person of faith to say you shouldn't teach the theory of evolution in school.

        You do NOT have to have faith, but I do not need proof. You have no more  right to call me crazy because I'm a Unitarian Universalist than I have to call you crazy because you do not believe in a higher power.

        There will always be people who will insult you for being an Atheist. But that gives you no reason to insult people of faith. If you dislike people for "disssing" you because you don't believe, than stop "dissing" people who do.

        1. 60
          nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm crazy, yet so is everyone else and we struggle ever so hard to sound as if we have a handle on things. So yes, when I said crazy, I meant it. Atheists say crazy stuff too, their not exempt from being human.

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Unfortunately, when the conversation involves speculation on a cosmic scale; atheists can, and do, overstep the bounds of provable fact and devolve into  passing off speculation and unsupportable claims  as universal truths at times, themselves.

        1. 60
          nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Very true, as is evident by most human behavioral patterns. Tacking on special meanings, is not totally confined to theists.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            And that's too bad. I don't understand what is so difficult about saying 'I don't know'.

            1. 60
              nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              People are like that, no different from any other person in that respect.

  4. 0
    Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago

    First, Christianity will never be appealing to Atheists because they don't believe in God.

    That's the short answer.

    The longer answer is that as long as Christians hold themselves above others, force their opinions on others (believers and non-believers alike), and continue to treat not only non-believers, but other believers as well as though they are less than,  will Christianity will never be appealing to Atheists, Agnostics, or undecided believers.  Jesus may be appealing, but those of us who follow Him often make others want to run (at great speed) away from Him.

    1. 60
      nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Atheists are actually more adept at understanding theology than any theist, even the ones that went to school for it and recieved special degrees. The words christians use are crazy too. For example; Evidence and imformation, would mean that you were talking about fact. No one can prove the existence or non-existence of a higher being. So the words evidence and imformation should not be part of the vernacular. What should be said, instead of "I know", it should be "I think". There's just not enough evidence to speak of it as fact.

      1. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not quite sure how that relates to my post, but you do make sense.

        1. 60
          nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I was pointing out why atheists and christians are on about it, in terms that we could all relate to. The reason why. Christians are crazy, not in a bad way though. More so, in an irrational and completely uneducated sense. I'm sure atheists are unaware of anything beyond the scope of perception, then again, christians are only guessing. But, so then, is everyone else. No one person was born with all the answers, we just go on what we were told, not so much by what we experience.

          1. 0
            Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Okay.

      2. Robert Erich profile image88
        Robert Erichposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        nonto21, I appreciate your passion. What still gets me though, is how both sides require faith. There is zero proof that there was suddenly an explosion and everything just appeared. That's why there is a debate, because BOTH sides require faith.

        I LOVE reason and logic. I prefer these things. However, when I take a look at the complexity of life, thought, and the universe in general. It makes more sense to me that it was designed by someone/something and not simply "poofed" into existence.

        1. 60
          nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          According to the ancient Hindus, the god's and humans mutually decided on this. We live in their world from time to time and they in our's. So it's all just a matter of geography and parental guidance.

          1. 60
            nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Theism is almost like a communicable disease, it spreads easily and can lead to great suffering.

          2. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            nonto21 Welcome to the hub pages
            Interesting thoughts

            Religion is more based on magic and experience pass down from hardship of ancient spirituality. Ancient Religion  applies more so to people in certain parental guidance and geography areas.

            In the future do you think Christianity will expand or shrink per capita in the World?

            1. 60
              nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It already has, as it is no longer practiced as widely and is not part of the worlds top three religions. At least not anymore. The way I read it; 1st it's Islam, then it's bahai, folloewd by buddhism, then christianity. It's becoming a thing of the past and most atheists used to be christian. So what does that tell you about the current state of christendom?

  5. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago

    You don't arrive at a belief because it is "appealing", but because it appear, to you, to be true.  The truth isn't always pretty.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Truth is beauty and your happiness is more based on how graceful we handle the problem 

      I wouldn't want to think of the world that surrounded us is filled with ugliness  and a huge mess. Then there is a threat that it  will all end at the end of this year, may so, maybe not, join our fight club anyways to be safe.

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Truth is sometimes war, cancer or rabies.  Believing otherwise is not the best approach to minimizing risk.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sometime yes, yet still little compared to the whole , not much, plus everything is beautiful in it's own way

          1. psycheskinner profile image80
            psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            In which case the lack of God and heaven is beautiful in it's own way.  In fact nothing is ugly and the whole dimension of ugly/beautiful ceased to meaningfully exist. In which case my argument that making a situation seem more lovely doesn't make it more true still stands.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              psycheskinner.
              You made me think deeper why I am here on this Religious part of the forum. Assuming that I argue or debate about the Bible fabrications and wrong translations through the centuries of little proof is a waste of time and that awareness of this, is a degree of beauty

              The low degree of truth the Bible creates involves a vagueness of some truth and some are false, others parts possess truth values: For me the beauty of the Bible would not give me enough balance and happiness. Maybe my love for my  Brother who is a pastor is really hopeless and should accept that fact and leave this part of the forum with so little of answers,

              The Bible keeps recycled, pagan, philosophy and myths which would not match my perspective of a healthy reality or my view of a higher degree consciousness of people living today. There is really nothing in the world to compare the bible to, other than the suffering that I have personally experience from reading it, along with it's overall behavior observing it and experiencing it

  6. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    I think that most atheists would be more comfortable with a heaven that didn't include God. Just a thought.

    1. 60
      nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Or servitude. When does one want to leave a position of servitude, only to turn around serve another, more evil master. If God were responsible for the mind of man, then God's mind has got to be damamged.

      1. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Why?

        1. 60
          nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          As it says in your twisted book of rules and crazy stories "We created them in our image", in another version. "Man was created in his image". If this is the case, wouldn't the mind of the creation, be much like that of the creator? There's too many variables and for me, it creates a conundrum.

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "twisted book of rules and crazy stories..." Glad you're not biased...

            Yes, the mind of the creation is a reflection of the Creator. A reflection is an imperfect image. So just because the creation is imperfect, does not necessarily follow that the Creator is also flawed.

            1. 60
              nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Evidently murder isn't a personality flaw.

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Evidently not...


                What are you talking about?

  7. DzyMsLizzy profile image92
    DzyMsLizzyposted 4 years ago

    The questions misses the point, and shows a lack of understanding of the definition of 'atheist.'

    An atheist does not believe in any diety, religion, or religious teaching, and since the concept the concept of 'hell' is tied in with religions and their teachings of a god and an eternal reward/punishment system, the question is moot.

    Removing the concept of reward and punishment would not remove the concept of a godhead, so the simple answer is "No."

  8. 60
    nonto21posted 4 years ago

    Atheists tend to lean toward what is intellectualy honest. Theists tend to lean toward what others reassure them of. Science has a number of books that support similar ideas. Theists generaly have only one.

    Which would you choose?

    The one with numerous sources of evidence and information or the one that is only agreed upon?

  9. lone77star profile image90
    lone77starposted 4 years ago

    @Robert Erich, your original question is a bit of an oxymoron.

    If you're on a ship that's sinking and a rescue ship has arrived, you can decide to get on the rescue ship or to stay with the sinking ship.

    Regrettably, too many have become attached to the sinking ship. They've become too comfortable in it and cannot conceive of leaving its familiarity. When it sinks, that is Hell.

    God created "man" in His image (Genesis 1:26). And God is not Homo sapiens. If you read the Bible from this perspective, many of the confusions disappear. Homo sapiens comes in later (Genesis 2:7), during God's day of rest.

    Homo sapiens, civilization, the Bible and Christianity are the rescue mission.

    Those who don't want to be rescued are going down by their own decision, not by any shackles and punishment imposed upon them, except that their decision is the instrument of their own destruction.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That means ape man and Dinosaurs and 95% of our World animals did not make it to Noah's ark and giant and Angels did.

      Don't you love Christian science, it's an endless of made up stuff that is forever changing and very forgiving stories too.

      1. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It doesn't say anywhere that there were giants and angels on the ark. Giants weren't seen again after the flood and angels wouldn't need the ark in the first place!

        I have admitted many times that I take the Flood Story on faith, so if you're going to laugh at it then I can't stop you. But at least criticize what it actually says!

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The Lord returns - and destroys satan and his armies? Nephilim (demon angels in physical bodies) will be here... Just like:
          "As it was in the days of Noah..." (Luke 17:26)

          off spring of demons mating with earth women) inhabit the underworld (place beyond the veil) is supported here:"Sons of God were fallen angels and not aliens"

          King Og (whose bed according to the Bible was 14 ft. by 6 ft.) was 14 feet tall! Noah was 12 feet tall, Goliath was over 9 feet tall,

          1. pennyofheaven profile image82
            pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So we are pygmies in comparison.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              None of these claims are in any world record books because they can not  prove them. The wisest man, oldest man, strongest man, tallest man and the most perfect man Adam

              I have plenty of world records, yet it's only a big deal if they came from the Bible, lucky for me, there is a few people like you here to help level things out.

          2. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Then you're getting a different reading of Revelation than I am. "As in the days of Noah" is a reference to the evil running rampant on the earth, not the physical reappearance of creatures not seen since that time.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Most Christian believe judgment day is near again, Don't you think you live too much for the pass and future rather than for today. Then Christian have no or very little proof of these Adam, Noah and Hell wild fantastic stories and what can all this unloving End of the world say about your God Yahweh.

              It's all too low energy and sick to me, it's only laughable at best because most people will not buy into fear mongering Creationism

              1. cascoly profile image59
                cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                actually it's only some of the fundamentalist parts of christianity than believe this

              2. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                What do you mean by "low energy"?

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Low energy like crime, hate, fighting , war, killing, hell and etc

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    But to conflate that with Christianity (i.e. what Jesus actually taught) is not correct.

  10. kathleenkat profile image89
    kathleenkatposted 4 years ago

    It was my awesome atheism powers

  11. SwordofManticorE profile image73
    SwordofManticorEposted 4 years ago

    The false doctrine of hell, has done more damage to God's image than anything else. The atheists or anti-christians are not the problem here, because the bible suffers more from its exponents than it does from its opponents. Why did the faith during the days of Paul grow like a wild fire? Because they were not exposed to the false teachings of hell. They were taught to teach the ministry of reconciliation of all to God through Christ. They were taught that the living God is unconditional mercy, forgiveness and love, and there is nothing we can do to save ourselves, because God did it for us. It is not the atheists that concern me about my beliefs, it is those in the church that force me to put my armor on.

    1. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      They were taught that because the end of not doing so was to go to hell. Jesus Himself taught that.

 
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