Two Gods are Better than One

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   Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years ago

   In fact, the more the merrier.  Having multiple Gods would solve the problem of evil and suffering in the world. For those of us who know there is something out there, it would be much easier to reconcile divinity with reality if we dispense with this one God who must take responsibility for everything that happens on Earth and acknowledge several Gods interacting with nature and none of them all powerful or all knowing,
   
   Since the days of Zoroaster, we have assumed that polytheism is somehow evil and primitive while monotheism is somehow good and modern.   Why is this necessarily so?

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I would say the less the better.
      People already believe in more than one G/god(s), so no suffering wouldn't be solved nor would evil be eliminated.
      No one can know anything about "something" out there. It's all pure speculation without anything to back it up.
      I wouldn't say it is.

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         Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Forgive me for not making myself clear.  I did not mean that suffering and evil would be eliminated.  I meant that  the lunacy of having this all powerful all knowing loving God in a world such as ours would not be an issue.  . We might even dispense with the word God and recognize the spirits, ancestors and orisha that have various powers but none of them would have all power.  Nothing will be eliminated, just make more sense.

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            Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Good to know.

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      pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Is that all you reckon we would need?

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      Chuck Bluesteinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The math is different with God. Like 1+1+1=1  (father, son and the holy ghost. The Hindu religion has many Gods but only one God. Krishna, Buddha and Jesus are all God in human form but at different times. At any time God is on the earth in one human form. If another (2nd one) comes then the old one dies (leaves the body).
      
      Also the only God is Vishnu. But Vishnu has 3 forms-- the creator (Brahma), the preserver (Vishnu) and the destroyer (Shiva). Also there are 7 milion people on this planet and everyone has a soul. But every soul is just one supersoul.
      
      Actually cosmotology teaches that time, space and quantity exists only in the physical world but not in the non-physical universe.

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      Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Who is "we"? As a practicing monotheist, I gotta say that the majority of the world seems to be veering away from it, whether it be toward polytheism or pantheism or non-theism.

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      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      There are as many scriptures supporting polytheism as monotheism.
      
      Numbers 33:4
          Upon their gods also theLORD executed judgments
      
      If the big G God believes in the other gods enough to execute judgement on them, shouldn't we?  You will argue that your God exectues judgement on Santa and the tooth fairy.
      
      
      Deuteronomy 10:17
          For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords.
      
      How can he be the God of gods if their are no other gods?
      
      Psalm 82:1
          God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods.
      
      Again, does God have imaginary friens?   Maybe that's why the world is so messed up.
      
      This is why I pay attention to what Christians say; they do a better job at finding biblical contradictions than enyone I know.  Keep doing whatcha doing:)  How can you believe in agreement with a book that does not agree with itself?

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         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         If Christians find more contradiction in the Bible than anyone else, that could lead to a lifetime of Hell on earth
         
         Thank you for saving me

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   Larry Wallposted 11 years ago

   God is real. He is singular. He is unique. He is God.
   
   As mortals, we cannot create a god for every purpose. Do not tell me the Catholics do that by praying to Saints. The church, by means of petition from members and careful study by the Vatican will determine if a Saint is to be associated with a particular cause, with St. Jude, for example, being the Patron Saint of Hopeless Causes.
   Catholics do not pray to saints for favors. Cathoics ask the saints for intersession on their behalf. The devotion to Mary is the same.  She is not treated or viewed as a God.
   
   Finally, if you had the power to create other gods, how would you empower them. Would you not be making yourself into a God if you think you could do this.
   
   I do not know if you are joking are being serious. Religious beliefs is one of the two most contentious topics on HubPages. The other one is the second amendment, the right to bear arms. I hope you are joking. If you were I apologize for coming down so hard. If you were not joking, please seriously consider what I have written.

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      And I can only hope you're joking.

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         pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         

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      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Larry, I was just engaging in cerebral exercise.  I like to play with ideas.  Neither a joke nor a serious endeavor.  Of course, I know we cannot create Gods, but we can create  concepts.    Part of my family is Christian and part Muslim.   I find it interesting that each side thinks it has the TRUE God and each uses the same life experiences as proof that they are right and the other side is wrong. 
      
      I don't have a lot of experience with the Catholic Church and therefore have no strong opinions about its use of saints and icons.    I was introduced to biblical Christianity through the Evangelical denominations, being pulled in fifty million directions by Word of Faithers, Calvinists and Baptists. 
      
      But though I like to play with ideas and concepts, there are things about which I am very serous.  But  you know this.
      
      Peace,
      
      Rhonda

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Larry Wall
      God is real. He is singular. He is unique. He is God.
      
      As mortals, we cannot create a god for every purpose.
      
      Why not?
      
      When everyone is God, you meet the demands and the respect of every important purpose first.

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         Larry Wallposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         If you think a mortal can be a God, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

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            DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Jesus was a mortal...He became a God....Or he was a God that became mortal...the difference??

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               Larry Wallposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Jesus was the son of god who appeared on earth in Human form. He was unique and part of the Holy trinity of father , son and holy spirit, one god in three forms.

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                  DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The trinity is not supported by the bible. And it doesn't matter how you try to justify it, a Trinity/Tribunal is still three entities with one "voice or action".
                  
                  God and Jesus are seperate deities...how else would Jesus be able to "sit" at the right hand of the Father...
                  
                  And just so you know, Jesus wasn't "classified" as a divine being by the "Church" until the 4th century. Prior to that time, it was his teachings that were followed and observed, not the person.

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                     Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     The Bible doesn't support three deities, or two. Only one. "Hear, Oh Israel, the Lord is one Lord!"

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                        pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        @chirs u r right...thats why jews say jesus was false messiah...u got it right...lord is one as per bible...

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                           Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Nothing exceeds like the Passion of the Jews

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                        DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Agreed, Biblically speaking ther is only one God...So why worship Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Why the Trinity? Why not just worship one God and consider Jesus a prophet that offered "correct" teachings and the Holy Spirit is nothing more than God himself, not a seperate portion of a trinity?
                        
                        Do you worship any of the prophets from the OT? Or consider them Gods? They had good messages as well. And they also claimed to be sent from God. They also made the claim to be "sons of God" and in Psalms, the claim is made that all "believers" are themselves Gods.

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                           Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           That...
                           
                           sounds like a fantastic hub!
                           
                           The short answer is that when Jesus says, "I and the Father are one," the Jewish understanding of that phrase (and Jesus was a Jew, talking to Jewish people in Israel,) is that He was claiming equality with God. The Greek understanding or the Western understanding, that He was claiming to be a prophet, would have been completely unkown and totally beyond anyone actually hearing Him say that (including His own disciples.)
                           
                           Not OT prophet ever made such a claim, not even close.
                           
                           And when Jesus says, "The only way to the Father is by Me," no OT prophet would have ever dared to make such a claim. It would have been rightfully interpreted as blasphemy, and the inevitable consequence (stoning) would have been denounced by exactly no one. So the people who were listening to Him at the time understood what He was saying, that He was claiming equality with God. And since there is only one God (which Jesus confirmed) then the logical consequence must be that He is claiming to be God! Then, when the Holy Spirit is folded into the mix, a way was needed to explain these difficult concepts. That's why the Trinity (Tri + Unity.)

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                              Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              If Jesus came to save the lost and the only way to be saved is to believe he is God, then why did he equivocate?  Yes, the Jews thought he was claiming equality with God; but he denied this by quoting from Psalm "Is it not written in your law I said you are gods.  You are all children of the most high." (John 10:34)  In another place, Jesus prays to the father for the Church to be one even as he and the father are one. (John 17:21)  Is it possible that in their zeal to glorify Jesus, the Church has missed his message all together?
                              
                              There is an African proverb that says, "I pointed out the stars for you; but all you could see was the tip of my finger."
                              
                              BTW Jesus did not say anything.  Like Pythagoras before him, Jesus left no writings of his own bu this disciples raised him to god status after he was dead (a very common practice in the ancient Roman world, I might add).  So the idea that Jesus made claims no one else claimed is not true.

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                                 nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Bruce Lee pops his student on the head;
                                 
                                 "Do not pay attention to the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory".

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                                 Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Answer: He didn't.
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 Jesus quoted the Psalm where David wrote that although they are sons of the most High (God) they will still die like mere mortals. He was not saying other men are truly gods, but that they exalt themselves as having the divine Law and think they know everything. Jesus also was saying that since they claim to know God's Word, they should know the One who was fortold in that very Word.
                                 
                                 Possible but unlikely. Parts of the church, almost certainly, but not as a whole. God's word does not return empty.
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 Yes, indeed. After Jesus died and came back, it became very common indeed to claim that other "gods" had done the same. Interestingly, it was pretty much unknown before word spread about Jesus.
                                 
                                 By your own logic, Julius Caesar said nothing. In fact, he probably died a peasant farmer (if he ever lived at all) somewhere in upper Gaul but his followers elevated him to some kind of super-general status.

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                              DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Read Rhonda reply above.
                              
                              And As I have told others before, One might wish to get a better understanding of the authors and context of the timeframe.
                              
                              Jesus was talking to Jews from Judea, not Israel...The 12 tribes broke apart and only 2 tribes continued as the Jews...the other ten were scattered, part becoming the samaritans.
                              
                              If one reads the original greek NT, they will find that Jesus says, "I and the Father are as one". Not "I and the Father are one". (He lives a rightous/Godly life)..Many think Jesus and his family were Essenes. Not the Pharisee or Sadducee crowd...And if you look at how he interacted with those types and study up on the Essenes, this is a very probable likelyhood.
                              
                              And it is not " The only way to the Father is by me", it is "The only way to the Father is to become as me" (by following his message)...
                              
                              But of course to get this, one has to read the original greek, not the modified versions most use today. It is very hard to find copies of the greek that hasn't been modified by the church since the early 4th century...And the copies we do have prior to that time frame are few.

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                                 Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 I don't have the time to go thoroughly through your post and you deserve no less, but for now I will say that Rhonda does not make the points she thinks she is if you are more familiar with the source material.

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                                    Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Hey Chris, there's a lot of people who talk but make no points.

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                                 Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Judea/Israel strikes me as splitting hairs.
                                 
                                 Where can I see this "original" Greek?

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                                    DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Start by taking a college class or two on the New Testament...That will give you a start to the original greek meanings...(I think I have already provided you the link for the free OT and NT courses that Yale offers) And if you do a bit of real research, not internet searches, you can find where there is old copies of the NT in the original Greek.
                                    
                                    I am not going to do the work for you. If you are truly interested in gaining a better knowledge of the bible, then you will do the work yourself. Or don't and just continue as you currently are...

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                                       Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Boy, the assumptions people make!
                                       
                                       I don't have time for a college course. If you think that's just hyperbole then you have not been reading many of my posts because although I don't milk it, neither have I been shy about what my life is like right now.
                                       
                                       No, you didn't provide the links, but that's okay because I don't have the time right now anyway. A link to a site with the "actual, original Greek" would be nice. I do have the Textus Receptus.
                                       
                                       It's not that I'm opposed to "doing the work" but you (and one other guy who I won't name, right Einder? ) both say I need to do the work, you won't do it for me. You've got to be kidding. I don't have the time to sit around and look up things for hours. I'm not asking for you to "do the work" I'm asking for a little help in understanding your point of view.

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                                          DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          Sorry for the delay in the reply...I have been busy.
                                          
                                          Here is the link for the Yale courses (to save for when you get some free time) :
                                          http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies
                                          
                                          And as for my point of view concerning Christianity...It is my opinion..that many who claim to follow the bible and follow Christ have little to no actual knowledge of either and are following based on what they hear in church or think they understand from reading "cherry picked" verses from the bible.
                                          I have no problem with Christianity itself, if it was still following the actual teachings of Christ. Sadly, for the most part this is just not the case.

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                                             Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                             Actually, I agree with that sentiment.

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            Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Psalm 82:6
            I have said, :you are gods and you are all children of the most high."
            
            This is God himself speaking.  Will you not continue your discussion with him either, since he seems to think that mortals are gods? Not "can be goda"  he said "ARE gods"

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            Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            And if you think that Humans cannot be Gods is exactly a show of your own limited thought, understanding and so much more.

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            Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Larry Wall
            If you think a mortal can be a God, there is no point in continuing this discussion
            
            Why would your God want to talk about natural things like marijuana, gays, dinosaurs and etc that he made all perfect. Your God is more inspires by,military, wealth in the and claiming the whole Universe, The only immortal animal (human included) that can claim immortality is the jelly fish. The immortal jellyfish lives 100 time longer than Genesis, the beginning of the earth.
            
            The Bible dose not talk kindly about the Jellyfish, maybe because Yahweh is a jealous God. I don't know why he is jealous of the jelly fish, the animal  has no brain or backbone..

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   Emile Rposted 11 years ago

   I don't know, but I think the one God was the ancient solution to the question of who created the gods. So, no matter how many gods you felt like worshiping there would be one who will ultimately be perceived as above the rest.

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      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That's true, whether it's Zeus or Allah, you have your big G God and all your little g gods.

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   aka-djposted 11 years ago

   Consider India.
   They have thousands of them, and then have a look at the state of the country, and the living conditions!
   People are dying, starving, suffering, but they don't help each other. It's karma, or some crap, that explains away their suffering as some form of deserved punishment.
   NOT ONE of their gods will come to the rescue.
   
   It takes people of monotheistic faith to go and help them and teach them.
   
   So, NO THANKS, to multiple gods!

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      pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @aka-dj India has had multiple gods since thousands of years... When India was number one country in the world and when it became colony of brits and even now when it is second fastest growing economy in the world...God has less to do with it...It has always been cycle of human growth...
      
      If u go by one god logic , then also humans find way of making their lives miserable...c muslim country or israel or even christian crusades...only solution is moving towards logical growth rather than some deity based system...

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   Dr Poojaposted 11 years ago

   I agree with aka -dj in a country like India with thousands of God and half the time spent following rituals to please them, few bother about fellow indiviuals.Let us first help and respect each other irrespective of God we follow to bring peace in the world.

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   mjkearnposted 11 years ago

   Why do so many believe in something that may not exist and as far as I can see hasn't had any direct impact on this planet or the people for quite some time if you believe. I for one do not and have zero time for any thought of any God.
   
   When you die that's it I hope. Don't want an after life.
   
   Now, that said, I do respect those who have religion and do good works but wouldn't your time be better spent helping real situations like the poor and starving in the world instead of praising some idol.
   
   Why don't your differing religious leaders come together to fight governments and stand up for the poor and the oppressed.
   
   I'd have even more respect for them then,
   
   MJ.

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      Larry Wallposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In this country, we have a strong passion about mixing religion and government. The same exists in other countries. However, Catholics, Baptists, Mormans and most other Christian faiths do a tremendous amount of missionary work around the world and in this country. There are nuns living under conditions that you would probably never consider. They are feeding the poor, taking care of the sick and spreading the gospel one person at a time. No religion has a magic off - on switch that can make everything better.
      Where you a Peace Corps member, are you a Red Cross volunteer, these are secular groups who help others, but the religious volunteers far outnumber them.
      
      How do you know God has not had any impact on the planet. Without God, things you could never imagine happening are being prevented.
      
      What visible impact are you looking for--our problem is that the people of earth do not share with one another as much as they should and we build bombs instead of feeding the poor.

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         Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You best not be talking about America, because you will be put straight about the distortion and misinformation(lies) you put forth.

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            Larry Wallposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I hope that is not a threat. I thought as Americans we were all entitle to the right of free speech and beliefs. I know the constitution does not mandate a separation of religion and state--but the majority of the people think it does. If you want to discuss--then discuss. If you want to threaten, then I suggest you rethink your attitude.

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               Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Threat? You'll perceive it however negative you will because you have no positive knowledge to do anything with the negative perception you presently have. That's a shame.
               
               I don't need to threaten anyone. I said I would address the distortion and misinformation- which are LIES perpetuated by those who are willfully ignorant to things such as facts and reality.
               You are protected and entitle to such rights, but don't confuse your right to speak with being allowed to lie.

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         artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You know i find it funny how this country is a majority Christian nation and supposedly Christians do the "majority" of charity work (though I have never seen evidence of this) there is still much poverty throughout the world and I almost never see any charitable Christian group anywhere I have gone to do charity work with secular organizations. Not that I haven't seen any.... And isn't it funny that when my cousin, who is a member of calvery chappell goes to do charity work with her husband who is the son of the head of the organization she brings back pictures of how much fun she had swimming and going to beaches and these fine exotic shops (so many pictures it's a wonder she had time to do any charity work at all in that I've week).

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            Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            There is no question that many people who go on short term mission trips (which is technically what they're called) often treat it as a sort of vacation (some more than others. Most trips that I know of at least result in buildings and wells being constructed or dug.) And many insulated Christians come back from them being not really any less insulated than they were before. But to dismiss Christian charity work the way you did is not realistic. There are places where Christian groups went where other groups did not (Darfur comes to mind.) And Christian groups often hang around after other groups leave (Menonite groups after the Gulf disaster come to mind.) And Christian groups don't always go where secular NGO's do, because they go where the secular NGO's don't.
            
            It's not always as black and white as I've said, but it's not as black and white as you put it either.

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      kirstenblogposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well said +1

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   Larry Wallposted 11 years ago

   I did not lie. I am not wasting any more my time with you. People with attitudes like yours that do not support discussion but only want to voice your views are why I usually avoid these forums. They are totally unproductive. Good Day. P.S. Why don"t you show your face?

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Really? You do know that there's a reason for the separation of church and government, right?
      Perfect show of being Christian, a lack of tolerance. Your religion taught you well.
      Bad perception on your part. You talk about my attitude and you should look at your own reflection before you attempt to discuss anything.
      Yes, most Christians cannot discuss anything rationally or calmly for that fact.
      Because, it's not required.

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   mjkearnposted 11 years ago

   To Larry Wall,
   Why do you suggest that I would never consider what conditions nuns live under. You don't know me, what I've seen in my life or where I've been and for your information I have seen nuns working under horrendous conditions and a whole lot worse. You have no idea where I am from so don't make silly comments.
   
   As to governments and religion, I wonder why you assume I'm talking about America. If you read my comment you would see it was generalised meaning religions and governments of the planet coming together for one purpose, those in need.
   
   Also if you had read my comment I said "as far as I can see" and not "I know".
   Then you decide to mention bombs. What has that got to do with helping those in need. The world does a lot of things that have nothing to do with helping those in need.
   I made a comment of my position while at the same time offering respect which I do but it appears to me that you went "off on one" like a lot of religious radicals.
   I think Cagsil has a good point. You seem to be short on tolerance and lack the ability to discuss a topic with reason and respect,
   MJ.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   One god is fascism. Many gods it would seem would have to be a democracy, what with the powers they would have.

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      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That's an interesting coupling—monotheism and fascism.  I've noticed that when Christians gather in a civil meeting, they say the pledge of allegiance first and then pray.  If they prayed first everything after the prayer would be under the direction of their concept of God.  By saying the pledge first. they turn  their prayer and religion into just another expression of patriotism. 
      
      Polytheism and democracy.  Yes, let all the gods have their say... We could even vote on it.  I vote for Eshu with Pan as his running mate.

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    pennyofheavenposted 11 years ago

    If we do a fun exercise, immortal is not all it is cracked up to be. Im-mortal could be translated as I am mortal. Imagine that.

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       Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       

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       Rhonda D Johnsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I like the play on words

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          pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Hehe thanks.

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    pennyofheavenposted 11 years ago

    Not fun for you... hehe ok

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       Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       If unbelievers burn in hell forever, are they immortal?.
       
       If a very good Christian (Christlike or win the heavenly lottery, unlikely) make it to heaven, are they the only chosen ones to be immortal in heaven?
       
       Silly me, try this question out anyways.

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          pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I responded partly to this comment below
          
          "If you think a mortal can be a God, there is no point in continuing this discussion"
          
          And partly to yours..
          
          "The only immortal animal (human included) that can claim immortality is the jelly fish. The immortal jellyfish lives 100 time longer than Genesis, the beginning of the earth"
          
          
          God is reputedly immortal and one day will make all good Christian mortals immortal. All others reputedly do not become or are not made immortal.
          
          Immortal is an invented word to explain what it not known. Forever, eternal, immortal are ideas therefore that try to explain what cannot be described.
          
          The essence of what these are meant to mean are lost when we try to describe them.
          
          I am mortal is the only one that retains its meaning without the essence being lost back into the abyss of the unknown.

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             Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             So' Mr. Wall assumes only good Christians are the only ones that can change from mortal to immortal. The chosen immortal are whatever day God picks (if it's not written prophecy, who knows?). God is very bias, jealous and very picky about the very special people he likes to turn into being immortal because they either must be good Christian to start with or some other unknown way he has in store, which keeps everyone guesting on what the correct answer is down here
             
             Mean while
             
             God's (Yahweh) loves everyone but allow most people of the world who are not Christian to be torture for eternity or even worst, allows them to be not not immortal at all and be dead forever will no feelings or no soul, just vanished from the Universe without a trace. Will Catholic Hitler be  noticed in Hell Or will his bad spirit be tortured forever because he is very well known here on Earth
             
             Have I got this straight, Christians, or will your group have another some other cherry pick-in story to tell me next.

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                pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, that is the most common perception which makes no sense at all.

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                   Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Gee penny our minds work like book End, accept your nicer and write better

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                      pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Haha because English is my first language, but your writing is more factually based regardless of your first language.

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                         nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         He does alright for a foreigner.

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                            pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            Yes indeed!

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                               nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               I was born here and I'm still having trouble with the language.

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                                  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  Haha you are not alone and English is my first language. In my Country (NZ) for most of my life English was the only language allowed so most of my parents generations chose to follow the law. Our original language then got lost in the passages of time and a new more modern version came into existence when it became legal.

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                Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                No, it's not straight.
                
                All people are immortal. God created us all that way.
                
                I don't have time to respond to the rest, which I will, but that's the starter.

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                   Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   All people are immortal. Okay, I can agree with this, but I will not agree with how you reached your conclusion on how Humans became Immortal or why.

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                      Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      That's fair.

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                         whocares4uposted 11 years agoin reply to this

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                            Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            What did they do?

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                               psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               Probably nothing.  Somebody is upset because he and three socks got banned for not following the forum rules.

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                                  whocares4uposted 11 years agoin reply to this

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                                     artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                     There are rules and if you don't follow them you get banned. Even free speech has it's limits when it is slanderous or riot provoking or disturbs the peace for no good.

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                                        Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                        I have asked many hard question here while  not having ever been banned for them or drown out by other forum members.Have been Ignored somewhat and some other have been shocked by what I say yet always give everyone a degree of respect and understand the rules

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                                        Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                        I agree.

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                                  Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  What are "socks"?

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                                     Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                     Sock puppets.
                                     
                                     A person who uses a secondary accounts for trolling the forums.

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                                        Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                        Thank you.

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                               whocares4uposted 11 years agoin reply to this

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                                  artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  Which was?  Can you tell us? I can't just take your word for it.  Maybe you were inappropriate in which case it was justifiable booting, maybe they were booted as well for the same thing, if it was the same thing.  I do know flame wars are stopped. You can say whatever you want in your hubs as long as they aren't slanderous or completely inappropriate.  Forums are meant to be "peaceful" debates.

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                            Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            Who are "my" hubpolice supporters? What are you talking about?

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    Druid Dudeposted 11 years ago

    We are immortal because of the nature of ENERGY.

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       Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Who's morals?

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       artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Our energy will continue on but we will not.

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          Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          artblack01
          
          Who are you addressing?
          
          Do you mean human energy will continue?

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             artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

             All energy, it ceases to be human energy when we die and becomes the energy to the next objects that happen to use this energy.  If you want to know who someon is addressing you can always check the link next to our names on the right side.

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          Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Our energy is us. Art...your ststement is contradictory. E as in E=MC2 includes consciousness. If consciousness exists, then it has to be in the equation.

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             artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

             To say energy includes consciousness us an assumption based on lack of actual knowledge of what happens to the energy of someone when they die. Any active energy turns off, the particles that make us up gets separated and is put to use in other parts of the surrounding masses, other animals, (insects, dirt, air), etc. it doesn't stay together as that person who is dead. There is no evidence that such a thing has or can occur. Like burning a candle. The energies that make up a candle gets chemically separated and settles onto other objects, it is no longer the candle.  Consciousness too is erased when the container, body, of the consciousness dies. What makes something conscious is how it works within the body, the body changes the consciousness changes, the body dies the consciousness dies, the energy that makes the consciousness work gets moved to something else that needs the energy. Like when you eat. Do you become the animal you eat? You are what you eat?

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             artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

             E=mc2 doesn't include consciousness, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, for as much as you claim you know more than me on physics, that has nothing to do with the meaning of that actual equation.

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                Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                everything is simultaneously living and dyeing

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                   artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Sigh....

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                Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                then consciousness doesn't exist. And you are mistaken. Consciousness is a manifestation of energy, just like you and everything about you, just like me, and everything about me. Remove all energy and the entire universe evaporates like a dream, including you, me, the fencepost...and consciousness.

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                   Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   I'm always open to the spiritual side of things, everything is transforming into another form of energy. That makes more sense than just one way to God living extremely happy in heaven because you picked the right fight club
                   Or
                   Being torture for eternity in Hell burning sort of energy if you picked the wrong club.

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                   artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Druid, Consciousness works like a program on a computer, the only reason the program doesn't get erased on a computer when the power is shut off is because the information is saved.  With a person if you shut it off, once all activity ceases the information is lost forever.  It ceases to exist. All functions of the mind, memory, personality etc, are all electro chemical processes in the brain, the consciousness is simultaneous energy and matter, you disengage one then that individual is gone.  The Energy that manifests consciousness does so in it's present form and once that form is changed the poof.  Everything in the universe is energy but it's an ever changing state, it only remains in one form for a finite period of time and is then lost forever.  You build a fence post, burn it, you will never have the same fence post, same with consciousness, clones, saved memory put into clones, it will always be different.
                   Castle, good for you, but you're going to have to have evidence to convince me or others like me that a spiritual side or a God side is valid.
                   You can believe whatever fantasy you like, I'd rather believe what is real.

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                      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Everything is real until proven otherwise, spiritual is a matter of the 99% unknown World and Universe. God (nature) is just a word until it is actually works in your life, in which I think everyone and everything is God or have some source of higher power. This way of thinking is valid when you consider that the common way of thinking for 90% of people on earth who are for evolution and for God in general.
                      
                      Fantasies can be off track or on track, imagination is the about the strongest empowerment Godlike force I know, My evidence is that 85% of my dreams have come true in real life within the pass 30 years.
                      What greater proof would you need then that?

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                         artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         What!?!? That explains you guys so much. It's gonna be impossible for me or any realistic person to take anything you say seriously ever again if you think everything is real unless proven otherwise. That defies logic, that is the ultimate argument from ignorance. The fact is you can't know something is real unless you have evidence for it. The very definition of fantasy site faculty or activity of imagining things that are impossible or improbable. Popular opinion doesn't make something true either it just means the majority of people either don't believe based on evidence and don't have time to question what is real vs fantasy. The ultimate seekers of truth are those who question the validity of everything. Your evidence only makes you seem more dilusional to me than your first statement. Testimony is not evidence. If you can demonstrate a dream and then show the event after the telling of the dream that would be something but you can't nor can anyone else do so without the getting into lame interpretive unconnected imagery.

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                            Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            What wrong with a little honest fantasy that dose no harm, just don't worship it.
                            
                            I would not need your approval as I'm already having serious fun as an professional artist for almost 4 decades as the,quality of perseverance overcomes almost everything.  I do question everything , still leaves lots of room for leading with spirit, shortly followed by my head and hand. It's real, have no regrets and nothing else will ever take the place of dream list with deadlines   You are left with yourself all the time, why not be your own God?
                            
                            Mankind dose have the power to shrink all forms of human poverty, these are my next project to work on, Also envision shrinking Religion, for there is no one and right way to be closer to be godlike. Just prove one thing I doing wrong or incorrect and I'll change it in a heartbeat.
                            
                            What makes Christian madder than hell is talking about negative things from the Bible. What makes atheist madder than hell is talking about their lame imagination and spiritual side of things. We keep coming closer to a middle ground between the two extremes

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                               artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               As an artist I respect your insanity.

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                                  Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  My life, is wild and sometime crazy like a rock star, yet for most part it's normal with healthy patterns. No danger to others or self and responsible 
                                  
                                  I would rather die, than to lead life without a steering wheel or be part of someone vegetable garden, A lot of artist are crazy enough to keep from going insane

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                                     artblack01posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                     You are hilarious and entertaining. Always good from an artist that has lost his/her mind.

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                                        Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                        On the contrary , I've found my mind and peace by respecting everyone as God,  Rather than fighting over ONE God or the other 10,000 Gods, where many have these super power heroes that are sometimes more unbelievable than Hollywood
                                        
                                        Are two Gods better than One?
                                        
                                        My answer -make everyone God , all for one, one for all , no more
                                        lopsidedness God and groups, lets forget all the nonsense fighting in our already, over ego World.
                                        
                                        The 3% atheists of the World are not going to grow that much anyways

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                   Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   There you go again trying to hang onto consciousness after death. I do wish we could, but that is just a wish. Unfortunately consciousness is a product of the brain. When the brian dies so does consciousness.

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                      Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      What if the soul is not reliant on the brain?

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                         Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         Hey Chris,
                         
                         From what I've recently learned from someone else, the "soul" and/or "spirit" is the human psyche. That comes from the brain, so when you are brain dead, so is your psyche. Enjoy.

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                            Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            Who did you learn that from?
                            
                            And what if the psyche is the brain and the soul is something different?
                            
                            Enjoy.

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                               Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               It's not and to insinuate otherwise is completely ignorant to the knowledge of humankind. So the only thing you've absolutely proven is you're unfaithful to the human race.

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                                  Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  Egads! And here I thought I was upright and true-blue! Only a super-super-true believer such as yourself could have exposed the errors of a mere true believer like me! Thank you sir!

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                         Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         Good question Chris, if we indeed do have a mystical soul and it is not reliant or a function of the brain, then it will not have memory or knowledge because memory or knowledge and consciousness are functions of the brain. So if there is indeed life after death you can't take your memories with you.

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                            Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            Obviously I disagree with that. The soul really makes us who we are, and memories are part of that.

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                               Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               You have no evidence of a soul. You believe we have souls because that is what you were told. Up until recently we had very little knowledge of the brain, but the new knowledge shows that thought, consciousness and memory are products of the brain and can be turned off. One can want to have consciousness after death, but wanting does not make it so. If you have ever had surgery you would know how easily medication can make you loose consciousness. You awake a few hours or so later without having any knowledge of the passage of time. When we die we do live on through our children, but without consciousness.

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                                  Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  Trust me, although I myself haven't had the surgery I am painfully (and I mean that literally) aware of how medication can make a patient lose consciousness and so much more.

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                                     Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                     Yes, as I remember you are going through a tough time. Sorry, I do hope you guys are well.
                                     
                                     But, if medication can cause the lose of consciousness that means consciousness is a product of the brain. Unfortunately the reality is when the brain dies so does consciousness.

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                                        Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                        From a purely materialist point of view, I suppose that's absolutely correct. I just know that God exists and His word talks about the soul and spirit of man. Sometimes it's metaphorical, but it's clear that something will be in the afterlife.

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                                           Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                           Wishful thinking.

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                                              Chris Nealposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                              Unless it's not.

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    Druid Dudeposted 11 years ago

    "And God breathed the breath of life into Adam, and Adam became a living soul." Wrong again Cag. Peashooter? You are virtually unarmed.

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       Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Rad-What if everything is a manifestation of energy. Our life, all of it, is based on carbon. Scientists don't know, at this point, if life can be based on a different element, further, the possibility of interdimensional realities complicates things further. What we can see, what we can detect, is NOT ALL THERE IS. That much is certain. We cannot definitively say that Consciousness can't exist on a whole different level than we are presently aware of. AND no proof exists to the contrary at this time.

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          Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, there is proof that consciousness is a product of the brian, you just don't want to look at it. We have no memory of life before we were born and we will have no memory of life after we die. I don't don't like it either, but that is the way it is.

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          Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I'll say it again. Medication can cause unconsciousness. If you've ever had surgery you would know, one minute you are aware and then you are not. Time does not appear to pass, but you wake up after having someone cut you open and you remember nothing. It's not like you were floating around the room passing time. Upon death consciousness stops. It can't simply transfer somewhere else just like it doesn't durning surgery.

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       Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Oh yes, please pull more mystical BS from the pathetic book known as the bible.
       Not as badly as you at least I can live with that.

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          Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          WELL WHERE IN THE HECK DID YOU GET THE mystical B.S. you call soul and spirit? The Koran? The Baghativeda? The Celestine Prophecy? The Teachings of Don Juan? The only thing that mystifies me is your WEIRD LOGIC.

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    Druid Dudeposted 11 years ago

    And by the way Cag...I got the word energy off the battery pack, and the term carbon based life from the Book of Sorrows That's the seventh book of the Hebrew Bible. (not)

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