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Two Gods are Better than One

  1. Rhonda D Johnson profile image79
    Rhonda D Johnsonposted 5 years ago

    In fact, the more the merrier.  Having multiple Gods would solve the problem of evil and suffering in the world. For those of us who know there is something out there, it would be much easier to reconcile divinity with reality if we dispense with this one God who must take responsibility for everything that happens on Earth and acknowledge several Gods interacting with nature and none of them all powerful or all knowing,

    Since the days of Zoroaster, we have assumed that polytheism is somehow evil and primitive while monotheism is somehow good and modern.   Why is this necessarily so?

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I would say the less the better.
      People already believe in more than one G/god(s), so no suffering wouldn't be solved nor would evil be eliminated.
      No one can know anything about "something" out there. It's all pure speculation without anything to back it up.
      I wouldn't say it is. lol

      1. Rhonda D Johnson profile image79
        Rhonda D Johnsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Forgive me for not making myself clear.  I did not mean that suffering and evil would be eliminated.  I meant that  the lunacy of having this all powerful all knowing loving God in a world such as ours would not be an issue.  . We might even dispense with the word God and recognize the spirits, ancestors and orisha that have various powers but none of them would have all power.  Nothing will be eliminated, just make more sense.

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Good to know.

    2. pennyofheaven profile image81
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Is that all you reckon we would need?

    3. Chuck Bluestein profile image87
      Chuck Bluesteinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The math is different with God. Like 1+1+1=1  (father, son and the holy ghost. The Hindu religion has many Gods but only one God. Krishna, Buddha and Jesus are all God in human form but at different times. At any time God is on the earth in one human form. If another (2nd one) comes then the old one dies (leaves the body).

      Also the only God is Vishnu. But Vishnu has 3 forms-- the creator (Brahma), the preserver (Vishnu) and the destroyer (Shiva). Also there are 7 milion people on this planet and everyone has a soul. But every soul is just one supersoul.

      Actually cosmotology teaches that time, space and quantity exists only in the physical world but not in the non-physical universe.

    4. Chris Neal profile image84
      Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Who is "we"? As a practicing monotheist, I gotta say that the majority of the world seems to be veering away from it, whether it be toward polytheism or pantheism or non-theism.

    5. Rhonda D Johnson profile image79
      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There are as many scriptures supporting polytheism as monotheism.

      Numbers 33:4
          Upon their gods also theLORD executed judgments

      If the big G God believes in the other gods enough to execute judgement on them, shouldn't we?  You will argue that your God exectues judgement on Santa and the tooth fairy.


      Deuteronomy 10:17
          For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords.

      How can he be the God of gods if their are no other gods?

      Psalm 82:1
          God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods.

      Again, does God have imaginary friens?   Maybe that's why the world is so messed up.

      This is why I pay attention to what Christians say; they do a better job at finding biblical contradictions than enyone I know.  Keep doing whatcha doing:)  How can you believe in agreement with a book that does not agree with itself?

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If Christians find more contradiction in the Bible than anyone else, that could lead to a lifetime of Hell on earth

        Thank you for saving me

  2. profile image0
    Larry Wallposted 5 years ago

    God is real. He is singular. He is unique. He is God.

    As mortals, we cannot create a god for every purpose. Do not tell me the Catholics do that by praying to Saints. The church, by means of petition from members and careful study by the Vatican will determine if a Saint is to be associated with a particular cause, with St. Jude, for example, being the Patron Saint of Hopeless Causes.
    Catholics do not pray to saints for favors. Cathoics ask the saints for intersession on their behalf. The devotion to Mary is the same.  She is not treated or viewed as a God.

    Finally, if you had the power to create other gods, how would you empower them. Would you not be making yourself into a God if you think you could do this.

    I do not know if you are joking are being serious. Religious beliefs is one of the two most contentious topics on HubPages. The other one is the second amendment, the right to bear arms. I hope you are joking. If you were I apologize for coming down so hard. If you were not joking, please seriously consider what I have written.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And I can only hope you're joking. roll

      1. pisean282311 profile image56
        pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lol

    2. Rhonda D Johnson profile image79
      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Larry, I was just engaging in cerebral exercise.  I like to play with ideas.  Neither a joke nor a serious endeavor.  Of course, I know we cannot create Gods, but we can create  concepts.    Part of my family is Christian and part Muslim.   I find it interesting that each side thinks it has the TRUE God and each uses the same life experiences as proof that they are right and the other side is wrong. 

      I don't have a lot of experience with the Catholic Church and therefore have no strong opinions about its use of saints and icons.    I was introduced to biblical Christianity through the Evangelical denominations, being pulled in fifty million directions by Word of Faithers, Calvinists and Baptists. 

      But though I like to play with ideas and concepts, there are things about which I am very serous.  But  you know this.

      Peace,

      Rhonda

    3. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Larry Wall
      God is real. He is singular. He is unique. He is God.

      As mortals, we cannot create a god for every purpose.

      Why not?

      When everyone is God, you meet the demands and the respect of every important purpose first.

      1. profile image0
        Larry Wallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If you think a mortal can be a God, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus was a mortal...He became a God....Or he was a God that became mortal...the difference??

          1. profile image0
            Larry Wallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus was the son of god who appeared on earth in Human form. He was unique and part of the Holy trinity of father , son and holy spirit, one god in three forms.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The trinity is not supported by the bible. And it doesn't matter how you try to justify it, a Trinity/Tribunal is still three entities with one "voice or action".

              God and Jesus are seperate deities...how else would Jesus be able to "sit" at the right hand of the Father...

              And just so you know, Jesus wasn't "classified" as a divine being by the "Church" until the 4th century. Prior to that time, it was his teachings that were followed and observed, not the person.

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The Bible doesn't support three deities, or two. Only one. "Hear, Oh Israel, the Lord is one Lord!"

                1. pisean282311 profile image56
                  pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  @chirs u r right...thats why jews say jesus was false messiah...u got it right...lord is one as per bible...

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Nothing exceeds like the Passion of the Jews

                2. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Agreed, Biblically speaking ther is only one God...So why worship Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Why the Trinity? Why not just worship one God and consider Jesus a prophet that offered "correct" teachings and the Holy Spirit is nothing more than God himself, not a seperate portion of a trinity?

                  Do you worship any of the prophets from the OT? Or consider them Gods? They had good messages as well. And they also claimed to be sent from God. They also made the claim to be "sons of God" and in Psalms, the claim is made that all "believers" are themselves Gods.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That...

                    sounds like a fantastic hub!

                    The short answer is that when Jesus says, "I and the Father are one," the Jewish understanding of that phrase (and Jesus was a Jew, talking to Jewish people in Israel,) is that He was claiming equality with God. The Greek understanding or the Western understanding, that He was claiming to be a prophet, would have been completely unkown and totally beyond anyone actually hearing Him say that (including His own disciples.)

                    Not OT prophet ever made such a claim, not even close.

                    And when Jesus says, "The only way to the Father is by Me," no OT prophet would have ever dared to make such a claim. It would have been rightfully interpreted as blasphemy, and the inevitable consequence (stoning) would have been denounced by exactly no one. So the people who were listening to Him at the time understood what He was saying, that He was claiming equality with God. And since there is only one God (which Jesus confirmed) then the logical consequence must be that He is claiming to be God! Then, when the Holy Spirit is folded into the mix, a way was needed to explain these difficult concepts. That's why the Trinity (Tri + Unity.)

        2. Rhonda D Johnson profile image79
          Rhonda D Johnsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Psalm 82:6
          I have said, :you are gods and you are all children of the most high."

          This is God himself speaking.  Will you not continue your discussion with him either, since he seems to think that mortals are gods? Not "can be goda"  he said "ARE gods"

        3. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And if you think that Humans cannot be Gods is exactly a show of your own limited thought, understanding and so much more.

        4. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Larry Wall
          If you think a mortal can be a God, there is no point in continuing this discussion

          Why would your God want to talk about natural things like marijuana, gays, dinosaurs and etc that he made all perfect. Your God is more inspires by,military, wealth in the and claiming the whole Universe, The only immortal animal (human included) that can claim immortality is the jelly fish. The immortal jellyfish lives 100 time longer than Genesis, the beginning of the earth.

          The Bible dose not talk kindly about the Jellyfish, maybe because Yahweh is a jealous God. I don't know why he is jealous of the jelly fish, the animal  has no brain or backbone..

  3. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    I don't know, but I think the one God was the ancient solution to the question of who created the gods. So, no matter how many gods you felt like worshiping there would be one who will ultimately be perceived as above the rest.

    1. Rhonda D Johnson profile image79
      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's true, whether it's Zeus or Allah, you have your big G God and all your little g gods.

  4. aka-dj profile image79
    aka-djposted 5 years ago

    Consider India.
    They have thousands of them, and then have a look at the state of the country, and the living conditions!
    People are dying, starving, suffering, but they don't help each other. It's karma, or some crap, that explains away their suffering as some form of deserved punishment.
    NOT ONE of their gods will come to the rescue.

    It takes people of monotheistic faith to go and help them and teach them.

    So, NO THANKS, to multiple gods! big_smile

    1. pisean282311 profile image56
      pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      @aka-dj India has had multiple gods since thousands of years... When India was number one country in the world and when it became colony of brits and even now when it is second fastest growing economy in the world...God has less to do with it...It has always been cycle of human growth...

      If u go by one god logic , then also humans find way of making their lives miserable...c muslim country or israel or even christian crusades...only solution is moving towards logical growth rather than some deity based system...

  5. Dr Pooja profile image61
    Dr Poojaposted 5 years ago

    I agree with aka -dj in a country like India with thousands of God and half the time spent following rituals to please them, few bother about fellow indiviuals.Let us first help and respect each other irrespective of God we follow to bring peace in the world.

  6. profile image0
    mjkearnposted 5 years ago

    Why do so many believe in something that may not exist and as far as I can see hasn't had any direct impact on this planet or the people for quite some time if you believe. I for one do not and have zero time for any thought of any God.

    When you die that's it I hope. Don't want an after life.

    Now, that said, I do respect those who have religion and do good works but wouldn't your time be better spent helping real situations like the poor and starving in the world instead of praising some idol.

    Why don't your differing religious leaders come together to fight governments and stand up for the poor and the oppressed.

    I'd have even more respect for them then,

    MJ.

    1. profile image0
      Larry Wallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      In this country, we have a strong passion about mixing religion and government. The same exists in other countries. However, Catholics, Baptists, Mormans and most other Christian faiths do a tremendous amount of missionary work around the world and in this country. There are nuns living under conditions that you would probably never consider. They are feeding the poor, taking care of the sick and spreading the gospel one person at a time. No religion has a magic off - on switch that can make everything better.
      Where you a Peace Corps member, are you a Red Cross volunteer, these are secular groups who help others, but the religious volunteers far outnumber them.

      How do you know God has not had any impact on the planet. Without God, things you could never imagine happening are being prevented.

      What visible impact are you looking for--our problem is that the people of earth do not share with one another as much as they should and we build bombs instead of feeding the poor.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You best not be talking about America, because you will be put straight about the distortion and misinformation(lies) you put forth.

        1. profile image0
          Larry Wallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I hope that is not a threat. I thought as Americans we were all entitle to the right of free speech and beliefs. I know the constitution does not mandate a separation of religion and state--but the majority of the people think it does. If you want to discuss--then discuss. If you want to threaten, then I suggest you rethink your attitude.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Threat? You'll perceive it however negative you will because you have no positive knowledge to do anything with the negative perception you presently have. That's a shame.

            I don't need to threaten anyone. I said I would address the distortion and misinformation- which are LIES perpetuated by those who are willfully ignorant to things such as facts and reality.
            You are protected and entitle to such rights, but don't confuse your right to speak with being allowed to lie.

      2. artblack01 profile image59
        artblack01posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You know i find it funny how this country is a majority Christian nation and supposedly Christians do the "majority" of charity work (though I have never seen evidence of this) there is still much poverty throughout the world and I almost never see any charitable Christian group anywhere I have gone to do charity work with secular organizations. Not that I haven't seen any.... And isn't it funny that when my cousin, who is a member of calvery chappell goes to do charity work with her husband who is the son of the head of the organization she brings back pictures of how much fun she had swimming and going to beaches and these fine exotic shops (so many pictures it's a wonder she had time to do any charity work at all in that I've week).

        1. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There is no question that many people who go on short term mission trips (which is technically what they're called) often treat it as a sort of vacation (some more than others. Most trips that I know of at least result in buildings and wells being constructed or dug.) And many insulated Christians come back from them being not really any less insulated than they were before. But to dismiss Christian charity work the way you did is not realistic. There are places where Christian groups went where other groups did not (Darfur comes to mind.) And Christian groups often hang around after other groups leave (Menonite groups after the Gulf disaster come to mind.) And Christian groups don't always go where secular NGO's do, because they go where the secular NGO's don't.

          It's not always as black and white as I've said, but it's not as black and white as you put it either.

    2. kirstenblog profile image78
      kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well said +1

  7. profile image0
    Larry Wallposted 5 years ago

    I did not lie. I am not wasting any more my time with you. People with attitudes like yours that do not support discussion but only want to voice your views are why I usually avoid these forums. They are totally unproductive. Good Day. P.S. Why don"t you show your face?

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Really? You do know that there's a reason for the separation of church and government, right?
      Perfect show of being Christian, a lack of tolerance. Your religion taught you well.
      Bad perception on your part. You talk about my attitude and you should look at your own reflection before you attempt to discuss anything.
      Yes, most Christians cannot discuss anything rationally or calmly for that fact.
      Because, it's not required. roll

  8. profile image0
    mjkearnposted 5 years ago

    To Larry Wall,
    Why do you suggest that I would never consider what conditions nuns live under. You don't know me, what I've seen in my life or where I've been and for your information I have seen nuns working under horrendous conditions and a whole lot worse. You have no idea where I am from so don't make silly comments.

    As to governments and religion, I wonder why you assume I'm talking about America. If you read my comment you would see it was generalised meaning religions and governments of the planet coming together for one purpose, those in need.

    Also if you had read my comment I said "as far as I can see" and not "I know".
    Then you decide to mention bombs. What has that got to do with helping those in need. The world does a lot of things that have nothing to do with helping those in need.
    I made a comment of my position while at the same time offering respect which I do but it appears to me that you went "off on one" like a lot of religious radicals.
    I think Cagsil has a good point. You seem to be short on tolerance and lack the ability to discuss a topic with reason and respect,
    MJ.

  9. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    One god is fascism. Many gods it would seem would have to be a democracy, what with the powers they would have.

    1. Rhonda D Johnson profile image79
      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's an interesting coupling—monotheism and fascism.  I've noticed that when Christians gather in a civil meeting, they say the pledge of allegiance first and then pray.  If they prayed first everything after the prayer would be under the direction of their concept of God.  By saying the pledge first. they turn  their prayer and religion into just another expression of patriotism. 

      Polytheism and democracy.  Yes, let all the gods have their say... We could even vote on it.  I vote for Eshu with Pan as his running mate.

  10. pennyofheaven profile image81
    pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago

    If we do a fun exercise, immortal is not all it is cracked up to be. Im-mortal could be translated as I am mortal. Imagine that.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      roll

    2. Rhonda D Johnson profile image79
      Rhonda D Johnsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I like the play on words

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hehe thanks.

  11. pennyofheaven profile image81
    pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago

    Not fun for you... hehe ok wink

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If unbelievers burn in hell forever, are they immortal?.

      If a very good Christian (Christlike or win the heavenly lottery, unlikely) make it to heaven, are they the only chosen ones to be immortal in heaven?

      Silly me, try this question out anyways.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I responded partly to this comment below

        "If you think a mortal can be a God, there is no point in continuing this discussion"

        And partly to yours..

        "The only immortal animal (human included) that can claim immortality is the jelly fish. The immortal jellyfish lives 100 time longer than Genesis, the beginning of the earth"


        God is reputedly immortal and one day will make all good Christian mortals immortal. All others reputedly do not become or are not made immortal.

        Immortal is an invented word to explain what it not known. Forever, eternal, immortal are ideas therefore that try to explain what cannot be described.

        The essence of what these are meant to mean are lost when we try to describe them.

        I am mortal is the only one that retains its meaning without the essence being lost back into the abyss of the unknown.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So' Mr. Wall assumes only good Christians are the only ones that can change from mortal to immortal. The chosen immortal are whatever day God picks (if it's not written prophecy, who knows?). God is very bias, jealous and very picky about the very special people he likes to turn into being immortal because they either must be good Christian to start with or some other unknown way he has in store, which keeps everyone guesting on what the correct answer is down here

          Mean while

          God's (Yahweh) loves everyone but allow most people of the world who are not Christian to be torture for eternity or even worst, allows them to be not not immortal at all and be dead forever will no feelings or no soul, just vanished from the Universe without a trace. Will Catholic Hitler be  noticed in Hell Or will his bad spirit be tortured forever because he is very well known here on Earth

          Have I got this straight, Christians, or will your group have another some other cherry pick-in story to tell me next.

          1. pennyofheaven profile image81
            pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, that is the most common perception which makes no sense at all.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Gee penny our minds work like book End, accept your nicer and write better

              1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Haha because English is my first language, but your writing is more factually based regardless of your first language.

                1. profile image61
                  nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  He does alright for a foreigner.

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                    pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes indeed!

          2. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, it's not straight.

            All people are immortal. God created us all that way.

            I don't have time to respond to the rest, which I will, but that's the starter.

            1. Cagsil profile image60
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              All people are immortal. Okay, I can agree with this, but I will not agree with how you reached your conclusion on how Humans became Immortal or why.

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That's fair.

                1. profile image61
                  whocares4uposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Deleted

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    What did they do?

                  2. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Who are "my" hubpolice supporters? What are you talking about?

  12. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    We are immortal because of the nature of ENERGY.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Who's morals?

    2. artblack01 profile image59
      artblack01posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Our energy will continue on but we will not.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        artblack01

        Who are you addressing?

        Do you mean human energy will continue?

        1. artblack01 profile image59
          artblack01posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          All energy, it ceases to be human energy when we die and becomes the energy to the next objects that happen to use this energy.  If you want to know who someon is addressing you can always check the link next to our names on the right side.

      2. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Our energy is us. Art...your ststement is contradictory. E as in E=MC2 includes consciousness. If consciousness exists, then it has to be in the equation.

        1. artblack01 profile image59
          artblack01posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          To say energy includes consciousness us an assumption based on lack of actual knowledge of what happens to the energy of someone when they die. Any active energy turns off, the particles that make us up gets separated and is put to use in other parts of the surrounding masses, other animals, (insects, dirt, air), etc. it doesn't stay together as that person who is dead. There is no evidence that such a thing has or can occur. Like burning a candle. The energies that make up a candle gets chemically separated and settles onto other objects, it is no longer the candle.  Consciousness too is erased when the container, body, of the consciousness dies. What makes something conscious is how it works within the body, the body changes the consciousness changes, the body dies the consciousness dies, the energy that makes the consciousness work gets moved to something else that needs the energy. Like when you eat. Do you become the animal you eat? You are what you eat?

        2. artblack01 profile image59
          artblack01posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          E=mc2 doesn't include consciousness, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, for as much as you claim you know more than me on physics, that has nothing to do with the meaning of that actual equation.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            everything is simultaneously living and dyeing

            1. artblack01 profile image59
              artblack01posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sigh....

          2. Druid Dude profile image61
            Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            then consciousness doesn't exist. And you are mistaken. Consciousness is a manifestation of energy, just like you and everything about you, just like me, and everything about me. Remove all energy and the entire universe evaporates like a dream, including you, me, the fencepost...and consciousness.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'm always open to the spiritual side of things, everything is transforming into another form of energy. That makes more sense than just one way to God living extremely happy in heaven because you picked the right fight club
              Or
              Being torture for eternity in Hell burning sort of energy if you picked the wrong club.

            2. artblack01 profile image59
              artblack01posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Druid, Consciousness works like a program on a computer, the only reason the program doesn't get erased on a computer when the power is shut off is because the information is saved.  With a person if you shut it off, once all activity ceases the information is lost forever.  It ceases to exist. All functions of the mind, memory, personality etc, are all electro chemical processes in the brain, the consciousness is simultaneous energy and matter, you disengage one then that individual is gone.  The Energy that manifests consciousness does so in it's present form and once that form is changed the poof.  Everything in the universe is energy but it's an ever changing state, it only remains in one form for a finite period of time and is then lost forever.  You build a fence post, burn it, you will never have the same fence post, same with consciousness, clones, saved memory put into clones, it will always be different.
              Castle, good for you, but you're going to have to have evidence to convince me or others like me that a spiritual side or a God side is valid.
              You can believe whatever fantasy you like, I'd rather believe what is real.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Everything is real until proven otherwise, spiritual is a matter of the 99% unknown World and Universe. God (nature) is just a word until it is actually works in your life, in which I think everyone and everything is God or have some source of higher power. This way of thinking is valid when you consider that the common way of thinking for 90% of people on earth who are for evolution and for God in general.

                Fantasies can be off track or on track, imagination is the about the strongest empowerment Godlike force I know, My evidence is that 85% of my dreams have come true in real life within the pass 30 years.
                What greater proof would you need then that?

                1. artblack01 profile image59
                  artblack01posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  What!?!? That explains you guys so much. It's gonna be impossible for me or any realistic person to take anything you say seriously ever again if you think everything is real unless proven otherwise. That defies logic, that is the ultimate argument from ignorance. The fact is you can't know something is real unless you have evidence for it. The very definition of fantasy site faculty or activity of imagining things that are impossible or improbable. Popular opinion doesn't make something true either it just means the majority of people either don't believe based on evidence and don't have time to question what is real vs fantasy. The ultimate seekers of truth are those who question the validity of everything. Your evidence only makes you seem more dilusional to me than your first statement. Testimony is not evidence. If you can demonstrate a dream and then show the event after the telling of the dream that would be something but you can't nor can anyone else do so without the getting into lame interpretive unconnected imagery.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    What wrong with a little honest fantasy that dose no harm, just don't worship it.

                    I would not need your approval as I'm already having serious fun as an professional artist for almost 4 decades as the,quality of perseverance overcomes almost everything.  I do question everything , still leaves lots of room for leading with spirit, shortly followed by my head and hand. It's real, have no regrets and nothing else will ever take the place of dream list with deadlines   You are left with yourself all the time, why not be your own God?

                    Mankind dose have the power to shrink all forms of human poverty, these are my next project to work on, Also envision shrinking Religion, for there is no one and right way to be closer to be godlike. Just prove one thing I doing wrong or incorrect and I'll change it in a heartbeat.

                    What makes Christian madder than hell is talking about negative things from the Bible. What makes atheist madder than hell is talking about their lame imagination and spiritual side of things. We keep coming closer to a middle ground between the two extremes

            3. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              There you go again trying to hang onto consciousness after death. I do wish we could, but that is just a wish. Unfortunately consciousness is a product of the brain. When the brian dies so does consciousness.

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What if the soul is not reliant on the brain?

                1. Cagsil profile image60
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey Chris,

                  From what I've recently learned from someone else, the "soul" and/or "spirit" is the human psyche. That comes from the brain, so when you are brain dead, so is your psyche. Enjoy.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Who did you learn that from?

                    And what if the psyche is the brain and the soul is something different?

                    Enjoy.

                2. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Good question Chris, if we indeed do have a mystical soul and it is not reliant or a function of the brain, then it will not have memory or knowledge because memory or knowledge and consciousness are functions of the brain. So if there is indeed life after death you can't take your memories with you.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Obviously I disagree with that. The soul really makes us who we are, and memories are part of that.

  13. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    "And God breathed the breath of life into Adam, and Adam became a living soul." Wrong again Cag. Peashooter? You are virtually unarmed.

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Rad-What if everything is a manifestation of energy. Our life, all of it, is based on carbon. Scientists don't know, at this point, if life can be based on a different element, further, the possibility of interdimensional realities complicates things further. What we can see, what we can detect, is NOT ALL THERE IS. That much is certain. We cannot definitively say that Consciousness can't exist on a whole different level than we are presently aware of. AND no proof exists to the contrary at this time.

      1. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, there is proof that consciousness is a product of the brian, you just don't want to look at it. We have no memory of life before we were born and we will have no memory of life after we die. I don't don't like it either, but that is the way it is.

      2. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'll say it again. Medication can cause unconsciousness. If you've ever had surgery you would know, one minute you are aware and then you are not. Time does not appear to pass, but you wake up after having someone cut you open and you remember nothing. It's not like you were floating around the room passing time. Upon death consciousness stops. It can't simply transfer somewhere else just like it doesn't durning surgery.

    2. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Oh yes, please pull more mystical BS from the pathetic book known as the bible.
      Not as badly as you at least I can live with that.

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        WELL WHERE IN THE HECK DID YOU GET THE mystical B.S. you call soul and spirit? The Koran? The Baghativeda? The Celestine Prophecy? The Teachings of Don Juan? The only thing that mystifies me is your WEIRD LOGIC.

  14. Druid Dude profile image61
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    And by the way Cag...I got the word energy off the battery pack, and the term carbon based life from the Book of Sorrows That's the seventh book of the Hebrew Bible. (not)

 
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