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Atheism v. Theism

  1. profile image60
    nonto21posted 5 years ago

    Atheism relies on books and books and books of supporting evidences, that confirm an experience and or subject of interest. Each book or reference is based on a field of study, concerning a physical reality.

    Theism relies on a series of oratory stories and up until forms of writing were devised, were nothing more than campfire stories. They base their beliefs on what they are told, rather than what they can readily experience.

    One is based on unequicable truths, based on facts observed and information gathered from reasonably accessible sources.

    The other is based on the word of equally confused patrons, lead by people that are either just as confused or are deliberately decieving others.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image25
      Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I was wondering are you Atheist?

      1. profile image60
        nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I can waver occasionaly, though for the most part yes. I can't see anything beyond what I can readily experience, as being factual or legitimate.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image25
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What do you think about the theory that Spirituality is about the 99% unknowns?

          If that is true than Atheist are not any closer to the ultimate truths in life than Religious people are. Mainly we are living in the dark stumbling over things to get to the light. Is any one right group, good for all ?

          1. profile image60
            nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Atheists never claim to be on top of the knowledge game, we just see what we can readily demonstrate. You can't do that with theism.

    2. autumn18 profile image69
      autumn18posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I feel like atheism is a bit more simple. I don't see it as relying on anything like books and evidence. It's simply a person that doesn't have a believe in God.

      1. profile image60
        nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I can't see God but I can see the result of science. If it can't be experienced logically, it's scrapped as useless and/or redundant information. To me, theism is obsolete.

    3. Claire Evans profile image89
      Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Theists don't only base their beliefs on what they are told.  They can experience it, too. 

      And let me tell you that what is sometimes called fact can actually be a lie.

      1. profile image60
        nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm well aware of that. That's why science, isn't an exact science. But what we think we know, we're fairly certain of.

  2. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Why cannot a material fact be spiritual?

    1. profile image60
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Can your spirit invent a better cell phone? Can a computer come from praying? Is there any way a spirit can be demonstrated? If a spirit exists, how can it be measured?

      1. Castlepaloma profile image25
        Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Many atheist are lame in their imagination. When we study many of the great atheist men in throughout  history, there isn't that much.

        When an atheist over focus on their five sense or depends too much on the physical part which is only one fifth of the equation in life and science is only one branch in the tree of life, the balance can be dis-empowering

        Yet I too, think religion is on the other extreme side of the poles too

  3. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Theoretically the spirit can be measured by what I invent, where the source of that invention, I am not sure is me, or some form of inspiration as not the physical me.

    1. profile image60
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Necessity is the mother of invention. There is no necessity a spirit could fill. If you are internally lost or empty, blame whoever told you you needed things or a God for that matter.

      When I left theism, I found that I was quite free of such reservations. If I relied on God to fix my phone, I'd never be able to call anyone. Then, it would be up to me to invent a form of communication. No spirit needed.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image25
        Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Something from my hub

        Few people have the imagination for reality and logic and reason can die off quickly. Your knowledge has limits but your imagination dose not. Reason respects differences, and imagination has a perceptible likeness of things. It’s an act not of reason but an intuition, Imagination is the eye of the soul and the voice of the daring.

        If there is anything Godlike about God it is that. When he dares to go beyond his wildest dreams, he can imagine everything.

        As Religion shrinks it will be replace more so by the spiritual age, if atheist do not seek the spiritual unknowns, how they grow beyond or get along with most people?

      2. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't this explains fried butter, louboutin shoes or the clap on clap off light.

        1. profile image60
          nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If I needed light and had none, I'd rub 2 sticks together. This was the invention of necessity, the need for heat and light.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What does that have to do with the examples I gave?

            1. profile image60
              nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I can prove that theism has no merit as a viable invention. I can't rub 2 sticks together and poof there's God. No! I have to profess there's a God. What more do I need to say.

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Considering the fact that what you just said is nonsensical; I'd say you probably need to say more.

                1. profile image60
                  nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If I can't provide proof of God's existence, then it doesn't exist.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    If you hold a cup of seawater, does that prove there are no whales in the ocean?

                    Give up your need for belief. I'm sure it is very frustrating, wanting to know things for fact. But making claims you can't support with fact is as lame as theism. You don't know any more than they do. Or, than I do.

    2. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Have some pride. Take credit when it is do and blame when it is due. I always find it interesting when theists that God for something well done and then blame the devil when mistakes are made.

      Give credit to you mind for your achievements. Unlike sleep doctors can put one in total unconsciousness. Meaning nothing spiritual is in the brain. When the brain is shut off so is consciousness, so when we die (brain shut off) we loose consciousness. I don't like it any more than you, but I don't have to like the truth. Do you?

      1. Castlepaloma profile image25
        Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        When the spiritual is the 99% unknown for  us all, as the world and Universe is 99% unknown for all of us. Their is only perspective of the degrees of truth , to claim you have the ultimate truth and right way would claiming to be all, much like Religion dose all over again, as one an only way to God.

        I really get tired of talking about religion like on the Atheist forum as the topic are 2/3 about Religion.  It's like a broken record all over again, where spiritual things and discovery manifest into our ego selves which are something anew, not like ancient spirituality of quilt and regrets.

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There are no spirits, no ghosts or goblins. These things are simply made up by humans to help us through life.

          Why not start a forum on something you would like to discuss?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image25
            Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I must slow down form these Religious forum, feeling  like I'm shrinking, not growing or expanding.

  4. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    "Nobody calling on the phone
    Except for the pope maybe in Rome"
    Invention is the mother of necessity.
    Invent a phone now you need it. 
    My phone is what I say it it.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image25
      Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, I can be godlike too, just shut the cell phone off , if the pope threatens me with a text, that he is the light and the way.

      1. profile image60
        nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Death is very scary.

        No one wishes to be left behind or to be forgotten.
        To lack a title.
        To leave behind one's beloved.
        To be without identity.
        To die is to leave all that behind.

        If I can invent a form of comfort for myself, I will probably invent an imaginary scenario where no such suffering exists.
        Wishful thinking.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image25
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Death and fear is likely the greatest draw for the churches membership. Being fearless, my energy is not wasted on the dying process, yet mainly on spiritual part of the process, not over focus lopsidedness way of beliefs

        2. Castlepaloma profile image25
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Imagination has not ever been a tool for suffering for me, mainly for pleasure , invention and discovery. Yet, the kind of Imagination Christian use to make up stuff on how they fit all those world animal on one Ark, is only laughable at best

  5. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Personally I am not much concerned about that future. It is what it is. I invent for the joy of the now. If my invention is preconceived, what fun is that.

    1. profile image60
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      All things known and thought are prconcieved. It's only the things that are absolutely new to us, that are not.

  6. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Preconceived is the machine of which we all must rely. Can it be complex enough that it precludes all randomness, and which would preclude non-mechanical intelligence.

    1. profile image60
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If I reject one for the other, then I have preconcieved notions. If I believe something is one way and not the other, then I have preconcieved notions. If I have an answer. If I believe something. If there is a word for it.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image25
        Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Most of my learning is by pictures in my mind first, than words follow

        1. profile image60
          nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          But the notion of labels is there? The fact that you have a word for the thought, means that the notion was preconcieved. To concieve, means to make or create. Only when the notion or thing is new, there can be no preconception.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image25
            Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            As long as it's natural and harmless to explore the unknowns, it is serious fun in my books.

            The bible pretends to be an instruction book to love god and all spiritual unknowns, which is clear that is not the true. They are just ignoring millions of other good books and experiences for their own over ego selfish group.

            1. profile image60
              nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              To ignore all the proof and facts, while having none, is as ignorant as it can get.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image25
                Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Religion dose have much of human history experience to offer.
                I it's mainly badly translated and really out of balance with science or some form of new or different way of thinking

                1. profile image60
                  nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  They may have experiences, none of which can be proven.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image25
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    none of which can be proven.

                    Oh come on. I am not a fan of these religious messes too. Yet, give religions some credit for some of their Historical facts back as far 5000 years ago.

                    How much can we take from Atheist history of ancient times?

  7. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    There are know.

  8. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Madness is belief in what is not true. If religion (faith) did not have the authority it does, it could only be defined as madness.

    1. profile image60
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Why does it have authority over experience? How is something no one can see, be validated as authority?

  9. profile image0
    Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago

    Wow. There are so many illogical replies and responses in this. My head reals.

    1. profile image60
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's what I was vying for, a logical response. Though I got what I expected, irrational and illogical answers.

  10. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    I call it external authority. The expression is "I have been told, but I don't know", as the way we learn vicariously without having to have been there.
    Einstein is an authority because he understands the math and you don't. I get to take what is yours because my God is better than yours, and by the
    same token, my science is better than your science.
    Convincement called con precludes proof.

    1. profile image60
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But one irrational answer doesn't support another, it just validates how uninformed theists really are. There can be no authority without proof. Einstein provided proof for his physical theory, so now the burden of proof falls on the theist.

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Are you so desperate to believe in God, that you demand proof; or so desperate to validate your own belief that you need to belittle the beliefs of others?

        Since you can't prove either way, why worry about it?

      2. knolyourself profile image59
        knolyourselfposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Bush and the boys attacked Iraq with no proof only authority.

        1. profile image60
          nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That doesn't prove there's a God. It only proves that politicians are jerks.

  11. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    It proves how the human condition of the world works.

    1. profile image60
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Selfishness and self promotoion, are the corner stones of a damaged psyche. To compare the world to a few political jerks, is really missing the point dude.

  12. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    Personally, I asked for no proof, and got it dumped in my lap. I don't follow the religion of my upbringing...you could say I went native...but that isn't quite the truth either. I don't believe in God...I know something is out there which, at this point fits the bill...that is all I need to know.

  13. profile image60
    nonto21posted 5 years ago

    It's actually funny, that christians will believe the word of other christians but not the word of someone that has doccumented, viable proof.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      We are all giddy with excitement. Please provide your proof.

 
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