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Do you believe you can become a Christ?

  1. Claire Evans profile image90
    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago

    There is so much New Age thinking out there.   People believe there is a higher power in them.  Do you believe you can achieve Christ-like status and how?  Specifically, can you be a Christ like Jesus being of divine status? Can you ever achieve Godhood?

    1. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If I could learn to speak fluent Elizabethan English, I reckon I would have a chance of convincing others, if not myself.

      Of course, the others would probably need to be from Oklahoma.

    2. 0
      Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm old enough to remember when the term "New Age" began to be used in the mid-1970s, with the hundreds of New Age shops that popped into existence. Most of these New Agers were those who had turned on, tuned in, and dropped out during the 1960s. They thronged to these shops to buy quartz crystals for their crystal healing, tarot cards, books by Shirley MacLaine, Jane Roberts, and Carlos Castaneda, to sign up for biorhythm and astrology seminars, and generally envelop themselves in anything that involved lots of pseudoscience and counterculture.

      For most, it was a passing fad. I did have a few friends who became fans of "A Course in Miracles," and some of them were briefly convinced that they could become Christ-like.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps in the 70s it become well known but New Age was associated with Alice Bailey.   


        Anyway, why has no one become a Christ so far?

        1. 0
          Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Why has no one become a Christ?

          People who believe that they are Napoleon or Cleopatra don't become Napoleon or Cleopatra, either. Belief isn't enough.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            People believe they can become a Christ with enlightenment through a new consciousness that New Agers believe will come in the New Age of Aquarius.  No one here has this belief.

          2. lone77star profile image90
            lone77starposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Bravo, Chasuk. Belief is so not there. Belief is all "here" -- caught in physical continuity, subject to its laws and the dichotomies inherent therein. On the belief vector, we have belief-disbelief. On the confidence vector, we have confidence-doubt.

            As the Buddhists would say, beyond the mortal realm are the perfections -- the "paramitas" where the "one-sided coin" of these things reside. Where confidence is perfect (100%) and without a spot of doubt. This is where faith exists -- the kind of state where the immortal child of God within reasserts their viewpoint external to physicality and superior to it. Like the faith of Peter when he stepped out of his storm-tossed boat onto the Sea of Galilee, or the Centurion who's servant was ill and who asked Jesus merely to command the servant to be well, for he had such faith to transmit the order that Jesus was amazed!

            Belief is of this world. It is tainted with varying degrees of doubt. It is a viewpoint of effect rather than cause. Faith is a viewpoint of cause (creation). Simple. Getting there, though, doesn't seem simple. Why? Because we are so attached to our egos. Humility is the antidote to ego. With that (utter humility), one opens the door to the Holy Ghost (true self), within. But if one does not believe in the Holy Ghost, one is left empty and self-condemned.

        2. kirstenblog profile image77
          kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          How do you know they haven't?
          I mean, look at what happened with the original Christ, not likely that anyone with Christlike abilities is going to want that sort of attention....

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So who is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent? Who is on the same par as Jesus?

            Since when would such as Christ be automatically put to death? I mean, New Agers are looking for their Christ to worship and adore.  There will be the Anti-Christ who will certain have Christ-like characteristics.  False Christs will be worshiped.

            1. Cagsil profile image82
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              This  description is for the overall of the G/god of the bible. It's not ONE aspect.
              You have no way to make this claim any more real than you do of the belief of him as a G/god. Why? Because, you simply do not know. To say you do because of the bible is to say that you're okay living a lie as though it's a truth. And that means you'd be willing to be and remain in that lie, as well as, spread it to others.

              So much for character? hmm
              At the time Jesus lived, he was executed for making the claim he was God.
              New agers? Oh please. New age people are waking up to the fact that a G/god isn't necessary/needed or even required to understand their own life and live their own life. Too bad more people don't realize it.
              There are already a lot of false G/gods worshiped. It's a stunning amount of willful ignorance in the world, so it's not a surprise.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, but it's the greatest display of divinity. 





                Yes, it is technically true that I can't know if someone is on the same par.  I'm not omniscient but I do know Jesus is the son of God.  I don't say so because of the Bible.  It means nothing without the Holy Spirit which is a real entity in the lives of those who love Him. 








                A Christ and the son of God are not automatically interchangeable.  If Jesus said He was a messiah, then nobody would care.  Others made that claim, too.  Jesus was put to death because He witnessed to the truth and people tend to HATE the truth.





                You don't understand New Age.  They are looking for a divine Christ like figure to usher in the New Age so that THEY can have Christ consciousness.  So, yes, they do need a deity that is Lucifer.  They acknowledge Him as the giver of all knowledge.






                We aren't talking about Gods per se.  Christs don't have to be God.  For example, the Jews were looking for a Christ and that Christ was never expected to be God or the son of God.

            2. pennyofheaven profile image81
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              As far as I am aware, Jesus was none of those when he walked the earth.

              Those are descriptions commonly used for God. However,they are 'concepts' used to describe what is unknown or indescribable at best. Those concepts have little or no relevance to the example Christ set down as a living human as his example can be described for the most part.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Sorry, I should have clarified.  Who is like Him now in His glory now that He has ascended into heaven?  Since He is one with the Father and no longer separated by flesh, is He not omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent?

                1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Ok the ascended Jesus. Right got that.

          2. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Kristenblog, virgin birth, being crucified to pay our sin debt, and rising from the grave makes Christ Jesus very unique; like the Son of God.

            1. pennyofheaven profile image81
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              There were virgin births in our ancients history. They were sacred and holy and died too because that is a natural process of life. They are still considered alive in spirit to some. Might want to check out other indigenous cultures there are many unique people who existed/exist in the world. No one better than the other I might add.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                What virgin births?

                1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Our ancient history has myths where different Gods (we had many Gods describing different processes of nature which were originally not Gods until we were colonized)fathered certain children that wandered our earth to accomplish whatever they were sent here to accomplish. Each historical account of various virgin births differed from tribe to tribe.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm asking you which virgin births, not the meanings.

              2. kirstenblog profile image77
                kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hi Penny! Great point!

                I never replied to wills post because really, it means nothing at all to me. He does not seem to understand that the myth of virgin births is not a good argument or point to make to someone who simply believes it all to be hogwash. Since he doesn't even make the effort to understand the person he is talking to let alone use language they will be able to respect, it's hardly seems worth my time.

                I do love that you are one of the few who will make that effort to understand where the other person is coming from. I don't always agree with you but do find your posts interesting to read and often worth responding to or (if its a conversation you are having with another) simply to read more.

                BTW I hold all the claims of virgin births in the same doubt as I do Christianity's particular spin on that story. I do tend to think, in a world where a woman can be stoned to death for sex outside of marriage any pregnancy outside of marriage should be claimed as a virgin one, might just save a womans life! That to me makes the better story, how some very smart woman got out of being horrifically killed by her society and spawned a religion lol
                Then again, thats my droll take on things tongue

                1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks!!

                  No and that is exactly what they are for modern man. Colourful myths in an effort to describe our origins or historical events that could not be explained with the language of the day. Our ancient history is thick with mythical beings that supposedly did this or that and for the most part does not make sense when taken literally.

                  In our culture a woman could be exiled to slavery, cursed or worse killed if there was sex out of marriage. Yet there was nothing wrong with the husband offering his wife to a visiting warrior! Go figure?

                  So I understand why it might have been better to claim the child was from a God haha!!!

                2. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this



                  This is silly.  Who'd believe that a woman was a virgin when she started to show? The body doesn't lie.

                  1. kirstenblog profile image77
                    kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Um, thats the point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                    This woman in this myth you prattle on about as tho you were there to witness it yourself not just parrot the story as it was told to you in a 2,000 year old game of wispers, clearly states that Mary claimed to have gotten pregnant while being a virgin. Hell, no one would have thought God would even think about impregnanting a woman where a mans penis had already been, he would only go for virgins (sick twisted chauvinistic cave man male arrogant ignorance there). So this unwed woman gets pregnant, so the claim is made she is carrying God's son because other wise she wasn't a virgin, just got up to a little something something and saved her life by making up some cock and bull story about it being God she was 'with' instead of some guy which is WAY more likely!

                    Not very good at picking up on the points people are making are you?

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    But you believe Mary was a Virgin?

          3. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            But there was a definite end to the means. The end was that we should all be made clean and sinless so that we could all be with God in Heaven. Nobody (let me repeat, nobody) else in history has had that ability, whether they wanted the attention or not. Only God in human flesh could have acheived that end.

            1. Cagsil profile image82
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You know, this is one of the most disturbing things about religious folk.

              They imagine an eternity in Heaven and think it's completely realistic.

              While these same people fail to understand that the human body itself could achieve the same end result(eternity/immortality) and no G/god would be required. And these same people cannot imagine it. It's pathetically sad. sad

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Considering that we are genetically engineered to decay and die (we can prolong life, but we cannot make it infinite,) just how is this possible?

            2. pennyofheaven profile image81
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You might like to read about some in Eastern philosophies/religions. At least some of them agree they are not the only ones. I don't suspect Jesus ever claimed that either.

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Jesus did claim exclusivity. ALL monotheistic religions claim exclusivity. You can suspect that green cheese flew down on a flaming pie and created the beat, but Jesus still claimed exclusivity.

                1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That is subject to ones perception. How have you come to that conclusion?

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Well,  1 person, plus 1 more person, plus the person who wrote the book, and the person who knew him, and the person(s) who knew Jesus....


                    It all adds up to where it has long since ceased being just "subject to ones perception." Unless you are determined that your perception is the only possible arbiter, in which case you negate not only the necessity but also the very existence of a god of any description, in which case isn't this conversation superfluous?

    3. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Christ just means anointed one...There are plenty of people who have been anointed in todays churches...Catholic churches anoint their clergy. Many other denominations, as well, use oil to anoint clergy or the sick.

      If you are talking about becoming an inspiring religious leader and creating a following...There are plenty who have done this as well...

      Perhaps, you would be able to better define exactly what type of responses you are looking for in regards to this question.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Good point, but I was referring to a Christ with a higher power in them like Jesus.

        Christ comes from the word messiah which is saviour. Can we save ourselves?

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not to pick, But Messiah (Hebrew) and Christ (Greek) both mean Anointed One. The Hebrew anointed their kings/high priests/judges (rulers) with oil.

          1. 61
            nonto21posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Christ and buddha are the same, in that they are forms of consciousness or titles added to the character of wise men.

          2. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, I know, but I specifically outlined what type of Christ I was referring to and that is one like Jesus not just any anointed person.

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Depending on your understanding...

        "Messiah" (a Hebrew word for which the Greek equivalent is Christ,) is a human being anointed by God to lead the nation of Israel to the Kingdom of God.

        or...

        "Christ" is the Son of God (and therefor God, the Son) who came to save us all from being separated from God forever by dying on the cross to take away our sins.

        Neither of these offices can be assumed. By definition, an anointed one must be anointed by somebody other than themselves, and in this case, it would be God. The "New Age"/Gnostic understanding of a "Christ Consciousness" means that we not only can be like Jesus in that we can do the good things He told us to do, but that we can be like Jesus in that we can be our own God! Of course, there are multiple variations on that, but that's the gist.

        And it can't be done.

        1. 73
          Robertr04posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Here I go again, not to be picky, but "messiah" is a Grk word transliterated for the Hebrew word Mashyach; anoited one. Christ comes from the Grk word christos, meaning "the anoited one," or at least that is what we are told. The Latin derivative of "christ" actually comes from the word cretin. Cretin is a person with deformities, physically or mentally, an idiot. When the Emissaries were called "christians" (cretins), they were being insulted by being called idiots. Christos is also the Grk version of the word Krishna.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Then everyone has the potential to be a Christ. Lol. 

            Thanks for this information.

          2. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, you're being picky.

            What difference does that make in what I said?

    4. kess profile image61
      kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      How can you become what you already are?
      To think that you can become means that you are already  convinced  that you're not and you will continue to be that.....
      So the only and wise option then is to believe that you already are.
      Then your eyes will show you how and why you are just what you believe.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You are not a Christ.  Don't delude yourself.  What Christ-like thing can you do?

        1. kess profile image61
          kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Believing what you like, it will not change who I am and you come from the doubtful place when you ask for proof, and such doubtful was cannot be satisfied.
          Plus it made your question unnecessary unless of course if it was posed so that the doubtful can have its time while it is yet day.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So you are a saviour? That's a Christ.

            1. kess profile image61
              kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Again, why ask, for the Christ is to you whatsoever you make him to.
              So he is a saviour to those who see him as such or thief to who sees him as such.

              The one who believes positively recieves the reward of their belief and the who believes negatively he too recieves his reward.

              That never changes  the Christ, but can change the one believing.

              The Christ is all things perfect..

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So what type of Christ are you?



                That is absolute nonsense.  Those who think positively can receive a heavy blow of suffering and the negative can receive fame and fortune.

    5. Cagsil profile image82
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, there's new age thinking. But, there are also plenty of people still using century old junk too.
      People believe there's a higher power in them? I don't believe such a thing. I know there's a higher power within me and when I have the ability to understand the knowledge required, then I will tap into that power. But, make no mistake an attribute it to some G/god.
      I don't need to. It's not a requirement. Understanding Jesus' teachings however and living it without the mystic BS, is something I already do.
      No such thing as divinity. That's the mystic BS I referenced.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Give me an example of your higher power that you can tap into.

        1. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I swear, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Or do you only read(pay attention) to words that suit what you want to read?

          I will give you the exact same post I gave another person in the forums, just the other day.



          Read it for what it says. Don't add words that are not said.

          The above conversation between James(jacharless) and myself took place the other day. The below link is to the forum thread we were discussing it.

          Go to page 8. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/99411

    6. pennyofheaven profile image81
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      According to the bible you can.

      Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

      Of course it can mean anything you want it to.

      It might also mean, whoever wants to be christ-like, may need to get to the stage that Jesus did when he said I and my Father are one.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Most people look at the scriptures and not realize what the context is.


        Jesus made the following promise as He prepared his disciples for His departure: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to the Father” (John 14:12). Before we discuss the meaning of “works” and “greater works” in this verse, we should consider the significance of works in the Gospel of John. The previous verse tells us the key purpose of works: “Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; otherwise believe on account of the works themselves”

        http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue65.htm

        What were Jesus' works? To lead us to faith in Him as the son of God.  Yes, He did miracles but that was not His main purpose.   The reason why Jesus said you could do better works is because of the conquering of death and sin and the resurrection.  What greater works did the apostles did that Jesus didn't do? A vast conversion of people to Christianity including the Gentiles.

        So it has nothing to do with achieving Christ-like status to be one with the Father but rather doing works that reach out to people which could bring people to God.  The mission for us is not for our own glorification to become Christs.  Christians are on a mission to bring others to Christ.

        1. pennyofheaven profile image81
          pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Conquering death and sin? I have not yet heard that Jesus is still alive in a physical body and I have not yet heard from Religion that sin no longer exists. So what death did he conquer and what sins did he die for? If death and sin still exist I don't understand your logic.

          Greater works does not necessarily need to mean performing greater miracles. Jesus was more than the miracles that he performed.

          1. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus rose from the dead.  That means He conquered death.  He ascended into heaven and thus is not still around in a physical body.  Jesus conquering sin does not mean that sin does not exist.  By taking on the sin of the world and for God to be able to forgive those sins went Jesus could reconcile with God and that means we can, too, if we truly repent.  Sin gets washed away from a person when they truly repent.  Now God can't make people reject their sin.  Thus people keep sin alive.
            By conquering death, it means death is not our final destination.  Like Him, we will be raised from the dead to have eternal life.




            Well, that's what I said.

            1. pennyofheaven profile image81
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Since we are made in God's image first, spirit if you like, then of dust. We too will do what Jesus did. So what other death could you possibly be talking about except for a physical one? The physical body dies. The spirit does not. So what death did Jesus conquer in your mind?

              So are you saying Jesus had to die or God would not forgive our sins? And that if Jesus had not died he would not have forgiven our sins? That surely does not make sense to you does it? Jesus would have eventually died, it is the nature of our world.

              You did say miracles were not his main purpose but then you went on to say what did the apostles do that were greater than Jesus. So in what terms did you mean greater? Greater as in miracles or greater as in person hood?

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                What He meant in being made in God's image is to mirror His nature like practising love being selfless, etc.  There is no way we take on any divine attributes.  I'm talking about conquering the physical death.  Did Jesus not rise from the dead with a glorified body? We are not going to have our old bodies used on this earth.  It will be a glorified body. 



                If Jesus did not die for hundreds to see no one could witness the resurrection and the resurrection is the victory over death and evil.  When we die, we will either be with God or descend into hell.  Heaven can only be accessed if we are sin-free and no one is capable of living a sin free life.  God knew that and sacrificed Jesus, and Himself Jesus being God incarnate at the same time, to take on the penalty for us.  Taking on all that sin meant Jesus was responsible for the most heinous sins ever committed.  The penalty of sin is a complete separation from God and that is hell for God cannot be near evil.  This is why Jesus cried, "Lord, why have you forsaken me?" For Jesus full of sin to reconcile with God, God had to forgive all sin.  By forgiving all sin, I mean sin committed by someone who truly repents.  Without Jesus, it would never have been possible for God to forgive sin because He cannot go near it but Jesus bridged the gap between us and God.  God, the form of a human, could reach us to us and come to our level so that we could dwell upon sinners.   



                By greater works, I do not mean doing miracles.  Greater works in this context meant we could bring more people to a faith in God through the Son because of the victory of Christ.  When Jesus was on earth, the victory wasn't achieved yet.  The Apostles reached out to the Gentiles who Jesus did not ministered to mainly.

                And the Apostles could do miracles because it was essential for the Christian faith to have survived.  Many people converted to Christianity because of these miracles.  Miracles aren't done today like they could back then because the Word of God has been firmly established in the form of Gospels.

                1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So in your logic when God made man in his image it was Gods nature yes? So where did this image go? Left outside the body when Adam was created or inside? Or neither? If he conquered physical death, he would still be physically alive. I have no doubt he rose but I don't see it was in the manner you describe. His body died, his inner body did not, which is why Mary couldn’t touch him.  What divine attributes are you talking about? Are you saying that there is no need to take on the attributes of selflessness or are there other divine attributes I do not know about?

                  Hundreds did not witness the resurrection so why would one believe it is the victory over physical death? If Jesus walked the world physically after death, he would have done another sermon on the mount type thing to prove to the said hundreds that death could be conquered physically, yet that was not the case. Jesus would also be here today preaching God's word. Jesus physically died full stop. If there was such a need to demonstrate conquering death via belief in God then that would be ultimate proof of such a conquest.

                  Lets see if I understand what your are saying correctly about God forgiving our sins. You say on one had that heaven can only be accessed if we are sin free and in another breath say no one is capable of living a sin free life. So there is no hope for anyone who wishes to access heaven because living a sin free life is not possible. The penalty of sin is hell. So Jesus took on all the sins of the world to reconcile with God so that those who were separated from God and lived in hell could be forgiven and God could get nearer to them because God cannot go near evil. So to those who were in hell that truly repented God forgave their sins and went to heaven. All others remain in hell. God also could not get near sin till Jesus bridged the gap and now God can get near sin. But you must truly repent before God can forgive your sins. If you fail to repent you go to hell. So sin as much as you like and as long as you truly repent you will go to heaven. Can you not see this does not make sense. Can you not see this type of thinking as problematic?

                  So greater works for you means how many people one can recruit to follow the Christian faith? If you can do miracles one can up ones chances of recruiting? The apostles were not as successful as Jesus because Jesus recruited more than them?

                  1. Claire Evans profile image90
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Penny, we were made perfect, however, there is a creature called Satan who ALSO wanted to make us in HIS image.  Creation is tainted.  We have the capacity to do both good and evil.  Ancient stories around the world report on "gods" genetically manipulating man's genes.  The Bible even supports this when the Elohim (gods) said, "Let US make man in OUR image".  These evil demons descended to earth to interbreed with mankind. 

                    I believe the capacity to do evil comes from the R-complex in the brain or, as it is also know, the Reptilian brain. 




                    He is physically alive.  He ascended into heaven alive, right? That's what the Bible said.   As for Mary, Jesus was trying to tell her something very important when she she clung to Him.  Notice, she did cling onto Him but He told her not to.  He was trying to relay the message that He was not risen to resume life as they knew it before.  Perhaps Mary had that expectation and having lost Him once to death, she didn't want to release Him in fear of Him going again. But the ascension had to happen and she had to let Him go. 

                    Then we have Doubting Thomas where Jesus allowed Thomas to put His finger through the hole in Jesus' wrist.  Jesus used this doubting moment to chastise Him for His lack of faith.  So whatever Jesus did, He always had a message behind it.


                    I don't think I said we have any divine attributes because we don't. The attributes we do take on are the characteristics of Jesus like love, compassion, selflessness, for example.  If we do not have those attributes we are against Jesus.





                    Well, according to Paul, hundreds did (1 Corinthians 15: 3-9). Even if hundreds didn't, ought we doubt the account of the witnesses as mentioned in the Gospels? And Jesus remained on earth for 40 days before ascended to heaven.  He didn't hole Himself up in a house and let no one seen Him.  Here is a timeline:

                    1. His first appearance was to Mary Magdalene, on that early Sunday morning. (Mark 16:9; John 20:10-18 ).
                    2. Jesus appeared to the women returning from the tomb. (Matthew 28:9-10).
                    3. Jesus appeared to two disciples on the road to Emmaus. (Luke 24:13-32; Mark 16:12-13).
                    4. He appeared to Peter in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:34; 1 Corinthians 15:5).
                    5. He appeared to his disciples and other followers, and also a second time to the two men from Emmaus, in a locked room in Jerusalem. The apostle Thomas wasn't there at that time. (Luke 24:36-43; John 20:19-23).
                    6. A week later, Jesus again appeared to his disciples behind locked doors, and this time Thomas was present. (John 20:24-29).
                    7. Jesus appeared to seven of his disciples on the shore of the Sea of Galilee. (John 21:1-24).
                    8. Jesus was seen by 500 believers at one time. (1 Corinthians 15:6).
                    9. He appeared to James. (1 Corinthians 15:7).
                    10. He appeared to eleven disciples on a mountain in Galilee. (Matt. 28:18-20).
                    11. He walked with his disciples along the road to Bethany, on the Mount of Olives, and then ascended into Heaven. (Luke 24:50-53).
                    12. He was seen by Paul on the road to Damascus. (Acts 9:3-6; 1 Corinthians 15:8).

                    Jesus does not need to be here to preach to us.  He'd be put to death over and over again if He did for Satan would make sure of that.  He had completed His mission on earth and gave His followers the Holy Spirit to continue His ministry.



                    When I say the penalty of sin is hell I meant that if we don't repent of our sins when we DIE, not now on earth.  We are on earth and are continuously being given chances to repent.  If someone sees the full glory of the Lord and knows what Jesus did and His truth and they still want to do evil then that means they would never repent and thus could never have the gift of salvation.  It's the end for them. 

                    God cannot go near sin period for He is in heaven but it is because of Jesus who did take on the sins of the world that God can be with those who love Him despite them sinning providing they repent because of the Holy Spirit entering the world because of the victory of Christ. 

                    The reason why Satan has more influence over the earth than God does is because people live in sin and the more sin, the less there is a presence of the Holy Spirit on earth.  If someone commits a heinous deed then God has no influence on them because sin has separated that perpetrator from God.

                    And, no, the gift of salvation is not automatic.  You cannot just sin as you like and "repent" later.  Having this sort of thinking means you are not TRULY repentant but see God as a "softie".  That's the height of disrespect. 







                    Yes.  Miracles don't necessarily mean people would convert.  Jesus was accused of being a magician, charlatan and demon-possessed, however the apostles did influence many.  Without Paul, however, the Christian faith surely would have died because Paul had the understanding more than them despite the fact that the disciples knew Jesus on earth.  Paul is an example of someone doing greater works than Jesus.  Peter wanted to keep Jesus exclusively for the Jews when Paul said Christianity was for all.  There were quite a few fights about this.

    7. diyomarpandan profile image59
      diyomarpandanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'm really to Christ as in God-like status.

      2. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No.

        1. paradigmsearch profile image90
          paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I hate it when I unfollow a thread and it still shows up in notifications, feed, etc. Just saying... smile

          And still... NO!

      3. sirgeov profile image59
        sirgeovposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Because of LOVE, everyone could be like God. Giving our life by serving our fellowmen is just like Christ.

        The humility and all-out service to humankind is the work of Christ and His happiness.

        1. pennyofheaven profile image81
          pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Nice

        2. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I was talking about Christ as in divine status not in nature.

          Thanks for stopping by.

      4. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well there was always Elvis and perhaps to a lesser extent the gloved one. And lets not forget John Lennon, we as also executed at a young age. But certainly with Elvis there were many sighting of him after his death, just like Jesus. smile

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not quite. Being seen in the Jungle Room isn't quite the same as being seen ascending to Heaven!

          Except to Elvis-philes! smile

      5. Virtuous1 profile image60
        Virtuous1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No one can be Christ if you become a Christian you act like Christ but there is only one Christ...any man who says that he can become Christ deceives himself and the truth is not in Him

      6. A Thousand Words profile image81
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'd rather find my inner buddha.

      7. aravindb1982 profile image92
        aravindb1982posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Call it finding the inner Buddha, becoming the Christ or realizing the Self - I feel they all mean the same. IN fact, even in Christ's life we see a kind of evolutionary' path that he set for all of us:
        He began with, "I am the messenger of God"...moved on to... "I am the son of God" and finally said, "I and my Father are one".
        Guess it would be good for us to follow that!

        1. pennyofheaven profile image81
          pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So as his understanding through experience deepened one can clearly see how I and my father are one came in to being.

        2. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus was the son of God from the start.  He never evolved to be the son of God.

          John 1 says:

          The Word Became Flesh

          1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

          John 1:14
          New International Version (NIV)
          14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

          In fact, not only is Jesus the son of God but God incarnate as well.

      8. Care Bear profile image60
        Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hey, I just want to apologize for the argument that has risen due to my original comment about what I believe as a Mormon. I hope I haven't offended you.

        1. Claire Evans profile image90
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Nope. smile

      9. jacharless profile image82
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Adam, that is the Eye of Light, Son of Lights, was called divine.
        The Un-Begotten Forefather cannot be named, as none came before him, to say they made him. For everything with a name {title} is begotten of something else. This is why you know [He] cannot be called a god. For a god is named and imagined, given likeness, like man was imagined and given likeness.

        Man is immortal, brought forth from the invisibilities as the divine of creation. No other creation made before him that can describe his glory. All the elements of creation fashioned before him, are in him and known to him, as he was made to rule over them. For this reason also, the First of many was revealed, to undue that forgetfulness in man, to restore the anointing, glory to him, which was the Will, from the beginning.

        So then, all can be restored to the immortal man, as that First Example showed and explained.
        Because if there is a First Fruit, then more fruit of equal of greater likeness must follow. And the Interpreter guides each one to the place of perfection, which existed in him, although he was not aware/had forgotten.

        James

      10. weekend profile image60
        weekendposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Interesting you should mention that. A few months ago, I actually achieved Buddha status with just a few, simple meditation execises. I'm currently writing a book on my amazing experience (it will, hopefully, become my third bestseller).

        But we humans are, of course, never fully satisfied with our achievements, no matter how great they are. As a result, I'm now well on my way to accomplishing Christ-like status about which I will also write a book.

        The question is, however, if too many of us achieve this sort of status, who will be boss?

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Who will be boss?  That would be me. Call shotgun quick! Before someone beats you to it.

          1. weekend profile image60
            weekendposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            My first bestseller (many moons ago) was on how to become the ultimate antichrist. It's since gone out of print, but I believe it can still be read in 15 parts somewhere on eHow.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I read it. It was very inspiring. You have an unparalleled talent for explaining the process, step by step, in layman's terms.

              1. weekend profile image60
                weekendposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Many thanks, Emile.

    8. 60
      mrhealthposted 4 years ago

      I do not think I could have anything Christ-like aside from only trying to interact or treat others.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Excellent!

    9. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 4 years ago

      I do believe there are people whose egos seem to be larger than the universe and tend to express themselves as if every word that comes out of their mouth is gospel this would include some nonbelievers as well.

      With as wonderful as the biblical history has recorded Jesus even he gives all the credit to the father. He came because the father sent him, he does the father's will. So if people are parading around like they have all the power then I say something is seriously wrong with that picture.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Agreed! What monumental egos to believe one can become a Christ.  No one can be a god if they have to be in a position of ignorance in the first place.

    10. lone77star profile image90
      lone77starposted 4 years ago

      Claire, there's just enough "truth" in some of the New Age beliefs to make them seductive.

      Ego loves this stuff. Ego hungers for power, adulation and being "right."

      Christ? There is only one. Can we be like Christ? Certainly! But even Christ was subservient to the Father -- by the Father's will, not that of the Son.

      Humility is key, but so is love. These, with responsibility and faith, combine to make one worthy of awakening -- turning away from the attachments to physical reality, and back to the purity of spiritual harmony with the Father and the Son. This is when the Holy Ghost (true self) within awakens.

      So many people confuse arrogance with faith. There are many similarities. They both look like unshakable confidence.

      Many people confuse humility with belittling self. Again, there are similarities. They both look like less of the "self." But the key is that true humility doesn't even take ego self into account, because it doesn't exist. All other forms of seeming humility involve a great deal of ego, concentrating on the self -- beating up the self, whining and resenting.

      One key clue to ego is "importance." Without ego, nothing is ever "important." Think about this carefully for a moment. So much of scripture tells us this, but even one minister thought it was too "New Age" to be scriptural. Don't look at the letter of scripture; work harder and look beyond the literal to see the spirit of it.

      To whom is anything ever "important?" Ego, of course! Is God important? No, never! He merely is -- I AM that I AM!

      If something needs to be done, we merely take responsibility for it. "Importance" creates attachments. One becomes fearful or desirous. "Oh, no! I've lost my most important thing!"

      Belief is a mortal action, full of effect and vulnerable. Faith is spiritual action, full of cause and invulnerable. Belief can be wrong. Belief can lead to failure. Faith never leads to failure, because it is pure creation. And faith can only be achieved by taking on utter humility to quell the only obstacle -- the soporific, ego! God answers all prayers instantaneously and in the affirmative. You cannot pray from the viewpoint of selfishness (ego). God does not listen to physical "things" (rocks, Homo sapiens bodies, egos); He only listens to His children. But a child of God has to wake up, first, in order to ask of God, otherwise it is only the body paying lip service to the prayer -- a pretense and a lie.

      Becoming like Christ can only be achieved by giving up one's attachments to this world. One can still use the things of this world, but by the will of God, the Father. Humility! Let God direct you. And don't become attached to your prosperity. Remember Abraham when he became too attached to Isaac.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Of course Satan will give the truth part if it serves his purpose.




        We can emulate Christ in our behaviour like being loving, etc.




        I'm sure Jesus was called arrogant. 

        New Agers love to pounce on the part where Jesus was said to have said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." People think that it means they have divinity within them.  What they don't realize is that it is a contextual error.


        "Many modern archaeological discoveries have validated the historical accuracy
        of the Bible and have helped Bible scholars understand the meaning of certain ancient words ..... In Koine Greek, the expression  entos humon (literally, 'inside of you') often meant 'within reach'. Thus Jesus' statement is Luke 17:21 could mean 'The kingdom is within reach.'" (Philip W Comfort, p 273 The Origin of the Bible).

        There are other interpretations of that particular verse:

        "The kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

        "For the Kingdom of God is among you."

        "For behold the kingdom of God is among you."

        After all, Jesus could not have said the Kingdom of God is within the Pharisees (Luke 20)?

        Likewise, Colossians 3:12-17 says:

        6Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.  17And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father,"


        I just wanted to get this straight because New Agers use this ambiguity to try and get Jesus down to their level.  I just can't stand that and I don't want other Christians claiming Jesus is within.



        http://www.voiceofjesus.org/kingdom_not_within.html

        1. Disappearinghead profile image89
          Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I think I can largely agree with you here Claire. The "kingdom of God within you" only occurs in one place and we cannot form a doctrine from a single verse. In all other instances of the term "kingdom of God", and there are many, it is always explicitly a kingdom that is external to the person, and something we must enter into not something that enters us.

          Interestingly, the Kingdom of God was always referred to by Jesus as coming near in time from the perspective of that people, being imminent, and as I understand it, the kingdom was established on Earth at his resurection. This fulfills the prophecy in Daniel about the rock being hewn from the mountain, smashing the Earth's systems (the statue, the Roman Empire being the last) and growing continually until it filled the Earth. This started 2000 years ago and us still growing now. Thus ideas of a future millennial rule (also based on a single verse) is a misunderstanding.

          Also just as he said the kingdom was imminent, he also made it abundantly clear his return was too. So waiting for a second coming is waiting in vain. He has already come at the resurection and every eye will see him when they die.

          The kingdom of God is here now, and we are able to do the things Christ did and greater things as a result.

          1. pennyofheaven profile image81
            pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I still don't see how this can be missed?

            The kingdom cannot be observed according to the verse prior to the kingdom is within you. This means it is not external. The verse after the kingdom is within  says something like you cannot say it is here or there, which also indicates it is not an external thing.

            My kingdom(Gods kingdom)is not of this world points to the same thing.

            There are many more verses that point to the kingdom within.

            Seek first the kingdom of God and all things would be added unto you.

            If it's external then more would find it and we would be living in a world of peace.

            1. Disappearinghead profile image89
              Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              They were expecting visual signs to a kingdom as if it were an Earthly kingdom. A kingdom external to us and one that is not observed as one would the Roman Empire, are not mutually exclusive.

              When he said his kingdom is not of this Earth, he is saying that its origins are in Heaven but that it come to Earth. This confirms exactly the interpretation of Daniel of nebuchadnezers dream of a rock cut from the heavenly mountain and establishing a kingdom on Earth.

              I've searched all instances of "the kingdom of God" in the bible as I really really would like to find a load of evidence that the kingdom is literally within everyone. I was very disappointed to discover that the "within" occurs only once, and all other uses of the term are talking about something we must enter or something external.

              Seeking first the kingdom can still be about seeking something external, it does not necessarily imply an internal search.

              People at large don't find it because they do not look for it.

              1. Claire Evans profile image90
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Great response!

              2. pennyofheaven profile image81
                pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Perhaps not in those actual words no. Here are some that I found. There are many others if you need more.

                Jhn 14:17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

                1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God
                dwelleth in you?

                Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in
                you all.

                Often Jesus said let your will be done and not mine. That for me indicates that he had a will of his own as we all do and realized the will of God differed to his. Acknowledging he and his father were one meant he realized where the kingdom of God resided.

                I understand seeking externally but if you do not know the essence of God you will not recognize that all things are in and of God. No separation as some might think.

                If you are preaching the word of God on the other hand how do you discern what is God's will and what is your own if you do not believe God is within you?

                1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                  Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  But John says it plainly in 14:17, that God dwells within those who seek him, not the World at large that doesn't.

                  I don't doubt that God dwells in us by his spirit, but it's not automatic. Now God dwelling in us is not to be confused with salvation. I think salvation is a done deal and that all humanity has been saved because the sacrifice has been done whether people believe it or not. But for God to dwell in us is different, it's the next stage on.

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                    pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes and I agree God dwells within those who seek God. It makes sense that if one does not seek God it would appear God does not dwell there but God does in my opinion and one just needs to be looking to find it. If however we are looking every where except where God dwells we could be looking forever and a day.

                    1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      After all that I have said, I'm still not absolutely sure on whether God dwells within everyone or not. I'd love it to be true, but I can't be certain because when I run a search on the term "kingdom of God" it's not what I find.

                      I am mindful of the occasion of when Paul was talking to the Athenians and said that in Him (Jesus) all things hold together and that all things were made by Him for Him. Thus all of humanity was made by Him and each person is held together by Him. I am currently working my way through the book "The Third Jesus" by Deepak Chopra, and his view is that the Westen Church misunderstood Jesus anyway, and he supports the view that Jesus attained sonship via a God consciousness and that God does dwell within all people. It's not an easy book to read, and perhaps by the end my views will modify. Who knows?

                  2. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, the salvation is for everyone and for all time, but if you don't accept it, then you don't go to Heaven.

                2. Claire Evans profile image90
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Here's another contextual issue.  God dwelling in us is not literal but figurative and it is indirect dwelling when we try and take on the nature of Jesus and a believer's behaviour can reflect Jesus' characteristics.  When someone is loving, one might say, "She/he is behaving very Christ-like."

                  Personal or direct dwelling is a direct fusion of the Holy Spirit into a person like Mary or the apostles who spoke in tongues.  People, like you, can believe in immediate dwelling in which there is no intermediary between them and God.  They are one. 


                  If the latter is the case, then we know longer have a trinity.  There would be four in the Godhead; Jesus, God, people and the Holy Spirit.   If we were part of God then when we sin, He sins also, as one can't divide themselves in two. 

                  The Bible makes it very clear where God literally resides:

                  “Do not be rash with your mouth, and let not your heart utter anything hastily before God, For God is in heaven, and you are on earth...” {Ecclesiastes 5:2} “God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.” {Acts 17:24} See also Matthew 5:48; John 3:13; and 1 Peter 1:3,4,22.

                  So one can say that the influence and the word of Christ dwells in us; that is our faith.  It is not a literal dwelling.  Colossians 3:16 makes this clear:

                  "Let the WORD of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom...."

                  I only now of one case when Jesus said, "Let Your will be done, not Mine" and that is when He was in the Garden of Gethsemane.  This was a moment of weakness and SO human.  He was afraid of death and hell and the temptation by Satan to exercise His power to save Himself.  He was praying to God to stamp out that temptation so that His will could be God's.  God would have been separated from Jesus if Jesus had exercised the temptation to pull out because God and Jesus' will have to be one.  Often we think things are our will against God until sometimes later we realize that we had the will all along to do God's will and it was SATAN who tried to convince us it wasn't our will.

                  We discern what God's will is by the gift of the Holy Spirit that enables us to have a relationship with Him.  This relationship, however, takes place between heaven and earth.  We are not in the same dimension or place.

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                    pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Our bodies are temples and they are not made with hands.

                    How you interpret the verses is your path and that is where you are at for the moment. If there is no God within for you. ok.

                    1. Chris Neal profile image83
                      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      But if we interpret the verses wrongly (for whatever reason) then our path diverges from the one God has planned for us and we will separate from His will forever.

                  2. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's pretty good!

                    1. Claire Evans profile image90
                      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Thanks!

          2. Claire Evans profile image90
            Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            There is the spiritual Kingdom of God now that is with those who love God and that is the relationship we have with God because of the death and resurrection of Christ. 

            The physical Kingdom of God would be in the case of Jesus' second coming as mentioned in Revelation 19:11.

            Understandably, people during His time thought Luke 21 applied to them.  They did not realize it was a Revelation prophecy.  After all, Jerusalem was surrounded by armies in 70 AD but during that time, there wasn't a World War as is implied, "...nations will be in anguish and perplexity.."

            But people today can apply His words now because of the things that are happening right now.  We truly are close to World War Three.  Israel is picking a fight with Iran and if Israel attacks Iran, Iran can come to their territory and decimate Jerusalem.

            And when Jesus said we could do greater works, He did not mean we could do miracles, etc.  He meant that we can have lead more people to a faith in God.

    11. 60
      jah1zposted 4 years ago

      I remember reading an article a couple weeks back talking about the Pole shift that is to occur, or already occurred, and in alignment with the end of the Mayan calender. So, supposedly, after December 24, 2012, our DNA will go through some sort alteration in line with a galactic wave force that is to hit Planet earth to "rebirth" the Human DNA for a futuristic era we're leading into.

      These young geeks sounded like experts and had me lapping every word off the page. They said most already made the change....or "adapted." They said, those of old age (50's and up) won't be able to make this switch (whatever that mean). Then they explained the period of the "Rapture" and how the wave force will make the Human body "lighter" for the event.

      Those that don't rapture, aren't ready or the body wasn't yet ready to adapt, so they stay on Earth until the body respond. A mystery about some Naburi planet suppose eclipse planet Earth for a short period of time and those that haven't yet rapture, would be given the choice to "beam" over to the Naburi planet or remain on Earth and then that planet move along, out of Earth's orbit.

      Those that stay on planet Earth yet again will then be those going through this Tribulation spoken about in Revelation. I can't remember all the details and my recollection isn't as fluid and vivid as those guys understand it. We suppose to have some sort telepathic-powers to move things by the mind. The ultimate human, if you will.

      Ahh...probably craps but it sounds so realistic the way they described it.

    12. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 4 years ago

      u mean getting disillusioned and dying painfully?...

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That's part of the human condition sure.

        1. pisean282311 profile image58
          pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          @penny dying is one thing which is surity...dying painfully too might happen...but to be disillusioned to level of jesus is not for everyone....in that point not everyone can become christ and we should be glad about it otherwise world would cease to exist....people would wait for some unseen god doing all the work and it would be chaos...

          1. pennyofheaven profile image81
            pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What do you mean by disillusioned?

            Why would being Christ-like mean waiting for God to do all the work?

            1. pisean282311 profile image58
              pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              @penny obviously...christ did nothing than conversations on unproven theme....if all become christ like we would see zero work and mere conversations on concepts like gods kingdom and such themes though in present formats...gods kingdom was what christ inherited as concept since it was popular concept of that era...in present times it would be something else...obviously he was taken over by political/social environment of those era and so was disillusioned...m glad world is coming out of that and in another 100 yrs would be totally out of jews creation called yaweh...

              1. 60
                jah1zposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I see what you saying but if all were to be Christ-like, most likely, we wouldn't be in that role until our 30's ---- enough time to do our contribution to the civilization of our country before serving a higher calling.

              2. pennyofheaven profile image81
                pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                When one sees the ills of the world the only reason one would feel disillusioned is if one believes in an illusion. I doubt this was the case with Jesus. Disappointment maybe? Disappointment in that people did not have a relationship with God except in lip service, rituals, false beliefs or what have you.

                Given the "I and the father are one" statement. What Jesus did the father did makes sense. So if any Christ-like wanna be today that gets to that stage, it may  not necessarily mean they would stop working or whatever it is they do. If they continue to work God is working. If they take a holiday God is holidaying.

                And greater works than he shall do. If sermons or conversation is not your expertise as was Jesus reputedly there is no restrictions on what greater works might be for the christ-like person. Could be an artist, scientist. Who knows?

                1. pisean282311 profile image58
                  pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  @penny
                  your para two , para three point taken...no problems in that...

      2. 60
        jah1zposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        How did disillusion come into the picture?? And dying slow/painfully???

    13. wilmiers77 profile image60
      wilmiers77posted 4 years ago

      In order to be Christ one must be crucified to pay our sin debt alone with having a virgin birth.

    14. rebekahELLE profile image91
      rebekahELLEposted 4 years ago


      Why does it bother you so much what others believe?
      You want to control what other believe?? Nonsense

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        People must believe what they want to believe but I hate Satan's deception.  I also pose a question and then wait for people to respond to me.  At least most of the time.  It means they want my input.  So it is definitely not about control.  This is a religious forum so people must expect people like me.  I certainly keep my religious beliefs to myself when I am out with other people unless asked.

    15. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      The commandments are for man, not the creator. Chris...to whom was Jesus praying in the Garden at Gethsemane?

      1. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus was praying to the Father, as He is the Son. Although Jesus is God just as surely as The Father is God, there is a difference in roles and it is important that they be respected. Also, it was important for Jesus to maintain his relationship. And although Jesus is fully God, He is also fully man and so had to live as one.

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So many have forgotten that, and so, have a misrepresentation in their hearts. The humanity of Jesus gives his life and sacrifice, meaning. To forget his humanity takes all meaning away from him. What would be the point of an immortal giving up his 'life' and coming back from the 'dead'. None whatsoever.

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Amen!

    16. movielardatadare profile image54
      movielardatadareposted 4 years ago

      Very interesting question.  I don't believe any person can achieve Christ-like status.  A person cannot be a Christ like Jesus being of divine status.  None of us can ever achieve Godhood because we're mortals.  Anyone who says that he or she is immortal is automatically a liar.  I guarantee you that 200 years from now (if the world hasn't been destroyed by then) that person will be dead.

      1. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This is why people believe they have the potential to be Christs and not know.  They are too mortal and too finite in the mind to be a Christ.

        1. movielardatadare profile image54
          movielardatadareposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, we humans are quite limited creatures.  Nonetheless, we still rule the animal kingdom.  We're number 1!  All other animals under us humans.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Don't tell that to Guinea Worms.

    17. sirgeov profile image59
      sirgeovposted 4 years ago

      But my point of view is not like to be equal with God but to like God in a sense of love. There is nothing wrong being a perfect or working hard to be a perfect individual. Jesus said you must be perfect as my father in heaven is perfect.

      Jesus said that we must follow Him. Following doesn't mean being like him but obeying and reflecting His good deeds towards mankind.

      1. movielardatadare profile image54
        movielardatadareposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I must agree that there is nothing wrong on trying to be a perfect individual.  sirgeov, I'd be lying to you if I said that I wasn't seeking Christian perfection.  I know that I am.  True that we must seek perfection.  And we certainly do need to reflect good deeds towards mankind (I could do a better job of that!)

        1. sirgeov profile image59
          sirgeovposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Approve without thinking my friend.

      2. Claire Evans profile image90
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Again this is a contextual issue.  This is the context of the word perfect:

        The word "perfect," in the Bible, can and does mean "complete" or "finished." Jesus was made "perfect" through suffering (Heb. 2:10; 5:8–9). He completed or fulfilled God’s plan for Him as our Savior by suffering for us.

        "Perfect" can also have the meaning of "mature" or "grown up." In Philippians 3:15, the apostle Paul speaks to "as many as be perfect" (KJV). The NKJV translates this phrase "as many as are mature."

        When Jesus said, "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect" (Matt. 5:48), He was saying, "Let your love be complete as God’s love."

        http://centervilleroad.com/articles/perfect.html

        It is not possible to perfect i.e. without sin.

    18. waynet profile image45
      waynetposted 4 years ago

      We can become Christ if we go down to the fancy dress shop and buy us some fakey beards and robes and then break some bread for a sandwiche but then drink Jesus juice....Allah be praised!

    19. prettydarkhorse profile image62
      prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago

      No, it takes great responsibility to become one!

    20. Care Bear profile image60
      Care Bearposted 4 years ago

      As an answer to the original, "Do you believe you can become a Christ?" question: yes. I will skip over all the other posts because I can get into a lot if I try to answer everything. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We believe that everyone does have the potential to become like a God (which Christ was in his glorified, ascended-into-heaven state). In a nutshell, we believe that when we die, our bodies and spirits are separated and that there will be a resurrection which will reunite our bodies and our spirits and we will become like gods and goddesses and have the power to create.

      1. aravindb1982 profile image92
        aravindb1982posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Awesome!!

        The world needs more people like you! smile

        1. Care Bear profile image60
          Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks! You're very kind. smile

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        My understanding of Mormonism is shaky so, since you brought it up, I'm curious about that belief. Do both men and women rule and create? Are they equal in power and influence? From what I've heard the guys who become gods have a harem, or multiple wives. Are the women of Mormonism going to become goddesses with multiple men in their harem or will they be the harem?

        I'm sincerely interested.

        1. 0
          Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          In the Celestial Kingdom -- the highest of heaven's three levels -- men can have multiple wives, but wives can't have multiple husbands.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I wonder if Mormon women are OK with that? I'd be grumbling if I was a Mormon.

            1. Care Bear profile image60
              Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm ok with it. My husband speculates that there may just be more women than men. Don't take that as a Mormon belief! Just speculation. To answer your other question about men and women ruling and creating: yes. Both men and women will have the power to rule and create and both are equal.

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well, they couldn't very well be equal if women can't have multiple partners but men can.

                Then again, you did mention more women than men. So, what about lesbian women? Can they have a harem of women, or is it strictly prohibited that women have to be a part of the harem and never the master of it?

                1. 0
                  Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Lesbians won't make it into the highest level of Mormon heaven, which is strictly a one-man, many-woman affair. More women make it to the highest level because more women stay faithful to their wedding vows, and, in order to make it into the highest level of Mormon heaven, you have to have been a Mormon couple married in the Mormon temple.

                  1. Care Bear profile image60
                    Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I just want to say that it doesn't necessarily have to be one man, many women. I think it could be just one man, one woman, too. I'm sure most men will have multiple wives, but I really don't think all the men will have multiple wives.

                  2. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I learned more about Mormon theology in five minutes than in the previous 45 years.

                    1. 0
                      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Interesting that some religions still think about sex after death. Do they think we take our bodies with us? Muslims talk about being given 72 virgins or something to that effect as if they still have a body and a need to procreate. Infantile in thought.

                2. Care Bear profile image60
                  Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The point is not men vs. women. The point is family. In the Celestial Kingdom, men and women will be able to have children together, just as we can here on earth. In a homosexual relationship, you simply cannot have children. I suspect that in heaven, there won't even be any homosexuality to speak of. In any case, I think that in the Celestial Kingdom, people won't be looking for a partner for sex per se, but rather looking for someone to have a family with.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    But, you said they would all have the power to create. So, homosexuals could have a family of their own; without adopting the offspring of other gods and goddesses. Since that obviously won't be a problem, gays should do OK.

                    If the gods/goddesses aren't having sex for any reason other than procreation is that really heaven? Sounds like a lot of work with no up side. Are you leaving something important to the explanation out?

                    1. Care Bear profile image60
                      Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Yes, they do have the power to create. They can create worlds and have children, but they can only have children in the natural way. The same way we  create children here. God has told us that marriage is between a man and a woman. We believe that the command to Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth is still a commandment for us in today's world. I think that since those in the Celestial Kingdom will have bodies united with their spirits, they'd have to procreate in order for their children to have both bodies and spirits united. Again, don't take my word for it. That's just what I suspect.

                      I didn't say that they would only have sex for procreation. I just think that's what the main goal will be. However, I do believe that they will have sex for enjoyment. I think it'll be very similar to how marriages on earth work. The husbands and wives work together to create and work together to raise their children. They'll learn together and have their time alone together and bond with each other.

                      We believe that in the Celestial Kingdom we will sill learn. We will make families. We will create worlds of our own with our families. We will have perfected bodies. There will be no sickness or pain.

                3. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Jesus taught that we will neither be married nor given in marriage after the resurrection.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't know about that, but it would make sense. Anyone who thinks we'll be thinking about sex for an eternity really doesn't aspire to much. I guess everyone has limits to their imagination and has to function within those limits.

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sounds like heaven to me...

              Someone else can take him for the night... I'll just read or something.

              Do these other wives help with house cleaning and cooking?  Can I request someone who can cook a decent gyro?

              1. Care Bear profile image60
                Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I like the way you think! smile

              2. 0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Sorry, I'm a feminist through and through. I'm not being a part of a harem and I'm not going to join a collective of individuals in servicing a man's wants and needs. It's backward and demeaning. I don't have any problem with other people doing it, if they choose, but I do take offense at the belief that it is some Godly life.

                1. Care Bear profile image60
                  Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That's fine. You can think what you want. Just please stop demeaning my religion.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't demean your religion. I'm simply pointing out that your religion demeans women.

                    1. Care Bear profile image60
                      Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      You are offending me. And I'm sure you offend many LDS people, women included. Our religion does NOT demean women, no matter what you think. You are entitled to your opinion. I understand that. But I am entitled to my beliefs as well and I don't need you or anyone else to try and convince me to think differently from what I already know to be true. I have NO doubt in my mind that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true. I have NO doubt that the teachings are true. I don't need any physical proof. I have felt things that you cannot even imagine. I was married to the man of my dreams because of this church. I have the best support system (mostly women, mind you) because of this church.

                  2. pennyofheaven profile image81
                    pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    No one can demean your religion unless you allow them to.

                    1. A Thousand Words profile image81
                      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Best words anyone ever spoke!

                2. MrBeanz profile image60
                  MrBeanzposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Man, people can't so much as tell a joke around you.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I knew Melissa was joking. But, this is a serious Mormon belief that offends every freedom women have fought to attain.

                    1. MrBeanz profile image60
                      MrBeanzposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      So... what are you trying to accomplish?  Do you hope we'll denounce our religion?  Deny the Christ?  Convert to feminism?

          2. pennyofheaven profile image81
            pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Fascinating

    21. Cagsil profile image82
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago

      WOW! I just got done reading the conversation between you two(Emile and Chasuk) and you know what, you're both seem to be thinking people lived, as we live now?

      Of who's business was it about the birth? If they were married, but the marriage wasn't consummated, but a child came to be. Why would anyone question having a child?

      It's not like "did you consummate your marriage"? question came up at any time. I mean seriously.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        By my understanding of historical judaism, that society was similar to Islamic society today. So, I would think they were very interested. A few of the laws expecting people to stone someone involved sexual infidelity and unmarried women who had sex didn't survive well in the community.

        So, no, they didn't think like we do. I'd compare them to the Taliban.

    22. knolyourself profile image60
      knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

      How about a hippy family?

      1. Care Bear profile image60
        Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Being LDS? Sure. As long as they're following the commandments. Not doing drugs, not drinking, keeping sex within marriage, that sort of thing.

    23. knolyourself profile image60
      knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

      So what is the Mormon preoccupation with ancestry. I had a Mormon girl friend once and I do believe they did a search on me.

      1. Care Bear profile image60
        Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It's all about family. That includes our ancestors. We have certain ordinances that need to be performed for the living as well as for the dead so that our families can be perpetuated beyond the grave. We have the power to perform them for those who have passed on and they then have the option to accept or reject it.

    24. knolyourself profile image60
      knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

      So what happens if the records of family history were destroyed?

      1. Care Bear profile image60
        Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        In that case, those ordinances cannot be performed for them by us on earth until the Millenium, when we will have contact with them and we can then perform the ordinances for them.

        This is just the basic idea. I don't know everything and I'm sure there's more that goes with it.

    25. knolyourself profile image60
      knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

      Would seem to me then as a Pagan, that I would be totally dependent upon your good graces, and completely a goner if you didn't exist. Am I in the family of man?

      1. Care Bear profile image60
        Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I don't know if I'd necessarily say you were a goner. We believe that in order to receive the highest degree of glory (to live in the presence of God), there are certain steps you'd have to take, including having the aforementioned ordinances performed. But we also believe that there are lesser glories as well. So if you don't have some or any of the ordinances performed for yourself, you just wouldn't receive the highest degree. And then if someone were to find your records or contact you during the Millenium, you could have the opportunity to accept or reject the ordinances.

        Anyway, yes. You are in the family of man. Everyone is. As a whole (there are always going to be individuals who do care), we don't care what race, religion, ethnicity, culture, etc. you come from. You are a child of God, thus making you part of one big happy family.

        (I hope I made at least some sense...)

    26. knolyourself profile image60
      knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

      Actually my Mormon girlfriend's x did. Don't think he cared for me. He punched a couple of holes in the wall, visiting her when I was away. Just kidding. Makes perfect sense. Just that I have been a subscriber to the ideal of the classless individual once called Bohemian.

      1. Care Bear profile image60
        Care Bearposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        OK. Well I'm glad I made sense and that I could answer your questions. If you have any others, feel free to ask. I know I don't have all the answers, but I know people I can go to who know more than me.

    27. Hairdetanglers profile image61
      Hairdetanglersposted 4 years ago

      Christ is an anointing of God, not a last name

    28. waynet profile image45
      waynetposted 4 years ago

      Yes. anyone can become a Christ if they grow a beard and long hair to suit and then wear some sweaty robes and slipper kippers

      1. prettydarkhorse profile image62
        prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No, that's a hippy.

        Definitely not a Christ.

      3. Raitu Disong profile image60
        Raitu Disongposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes they can become fake Jesus  not real Jesus

      4. Raitu Disong profile image60
        Raitu Disongposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes they can become fake Jesus  not real Jesus

    29. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      72 virgins sounds as good. Not sure what happens when ya run outta virgins. Seems like 72 PMSing former virgins begins to sound a lot less like Paradise. I've never heard what Islamic women get when they die....geuss they get their virginity back!smile

    30. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      Heaven is a vision of the the attainable future. It is a place that human beings might walk into without having died to get there. The more I read these forum pieces, the more I see that very few people seem to know what is plain to see. Being a representative of my chosen people, it worries me that you all are out there...I mean REALLY OUT THERE!!!smile

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So, let me see if I understand you. Humanity has survived on earth, living and dying, since humanity began....and you think you will waltz into a heaven while alive. And you think everyone else if out there?

        Don't look now, but you may be out there with the rest of us. smile

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus himself said it. That there would be those who would walk into heaven and did not die. Must not be very far. Maybe it is right in front of us, and has been all the time. I know that believing we can't get there keeps us from trying. And when we were SO CLOSE!

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If Heaven was an attainable place in this world, we would have done it by now. Or maybe we have, there have been so many different visions of Heaven on Earth that maybe we've simply attained them all and not been smart enough to understand that sometimes, you really do get what you pay for.

    31. pennyofheaven profile image81
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago

      So why are we back there again? You keep missing the point? So what is the point of continuing our dialogue pray tell?

    32. aware profile image69
      awareposted 4 years ago

      Jesus Christ. sighs

    33. 60
      VirginiaWDebelisposted 4 years ago

      I don`t believe this.

    34. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

      The point being is: If you don't believe it, then it is impossible. EVERY idea, every concept, every advance, has started out as a thought, with no reality in material space. Everything we have started out that way. We, as in mankind, male and female, are the physical manifestation of that which we call the Divine. We are here to 'push the stone', surmount the obstacles, peel back the envelope, break the records, explore the frontiers....and to constantly demonstrate that we, mankind, are more than the sum of our parts. We won't acheive a physical heaven on earth until we learn to respect each other in every way, shape and form.

      1. Disappearinghead profile image89
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I like that. smile

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I truly believe it. I think that is what WE are all about. It is what separates us on this planet, and it is the difference between thinking that we have arrived and knowing full well we haven't. This is the nature of our next step here. The train doesn't leave the station until everyone is on board. Got plenty of time...unless you want to be on schedule, but, in truth...if there is a schedule, no one here has it.

          1. Recently Awakened profile image60
            Recently Awakenedposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            People are slowly waking up! I have a feeling that they will soon realize that all the labeling they have been programmed to assign to EVERYTHING and all the mental patterns that they allow to unconsciously control them are not in anyone's highest good and are blocking them from BEING who they truely are.

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I was right there nodding up until the physical heaven on earth part. Maybe it us just that I don't want to imagine a heaven here. I don't want to be stuck in a physical form for an eternity.

        Other than that, it sounds great. I'm all for figuring out a way for everyone to respect everybody.

    35. 59
      polsultposted 4 years ago

      The question is full of hubris and frankly nonsense.

    36. 0
      Chasukposted 4 years ago

      I believe that it is possible for me to become a Christ, theoretically, as long as we omit the requirement that I be a descendant of David. Actually, I don't know that I'm not a descendant of David. I haven't been diligent enough at my genealogical hobby to trace my lineage that far back.

      After all, the Christ wasn't supposed to be God or God incarnate. That was a Christian invention. I suppose I could orchestrate the physical rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem, and inspire all of the Jews to return to Israel. Oh, and I could bring an end to war, forever. That is, I could do these things if I were considerably more charismatic and motivated. I'd also have to make sure that they all occurred within my lifetime, as the Second Coming is also a Christian invention.

      1. A Thousand Words profile image81
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Why is Hubpages still lacking in the "like" button department?

    37. Disappearinghead profile image89
      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago

      Yeah but trying out the procreation equipment is rather good fun though. Every cloud...... And all that.

    38. 60
      rbraetposted 4 years ago

      Weekend, a sincerely doubt a true Christ would boast about writing books or joke about who gets to be boss.  I similarly doubt someone of such a stature would proclaim it, unless they were divinely guided to do so for the benefit of humankind.  Have you gained the abilities over life and death as Christ reportedly demonstrated?

      1. weekend profile image60
        weekendposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Rabraet, buy my books and you, too, will gain these coveted, Christ-like abilities.

        1. 60
          rbraetposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          LOL weekend!  Oh my... I'm most grateful that I have the discernment to know better.

          1. weekend profile image60
            weekendposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            My second book, Rbraet, was on how to become a leading guro. Are you aware of how many millions of successful, leading guros there are since publication of that book? I am now teaching my following how to become a Buddha, and then they'll learn how to become a Christ. Have faith, Rbraet. Follow me. Be a believer. Buy my books. My next one will be a bigger bestseller than the Bible and that's not without reason.

     
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