A MAN WITH TWO WIVES (1) ABRAHAM

Abraham and Sarah
Abraham and Sarah

History often repeats itself. "There is no new thing under the sun," says the Preacher (Ecclesiastes 1:9).

Adam, our ancestor and the first man created by God was made overseer over everything in the world until God created Eve out of his ribs. And Adam said, "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man" (Genesis 2:23).

Thus God made woman to help man in his sojourn on earth. God made Adam first, and then He created Eve out of the rib bone of Adam. Hence, Adam was head of the household. The marriage should consist of man, woman and GOD. Man is made head of his household and woman, his help mate, but God is over all. Why is there no new thing under the sun?. Man is inclined to listen to his wife just as Adam listened to Eve. Years later, Abraham did the same thing and listened to Sarah and took Hagar for his wife. He forgot about God's promise that He would give Abraham a son.  He preferred to listen to his wife than to God.  That is man's weakness. 

MAN IS HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD

1 Corinthians 11:3

  • But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Peter 3:7

  • Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Genesis 3:16

  • Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Man is head of his household and should make decisions for his family. Adam made a mistake in allowing his wife, Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. Abraham also allowed his wife to make the decision by going in to Hagar, and contravening God commandments of one wife, one husband.

 

SARAH

Abraham had a wife called Sarah who was childless.  God had promised that He would bless Abraham with a son. Abraham was getting old and Sarah was still not pregnant. While they were sojourning in Egypt, Abraham told Sarah to tell the Egyptians she was his sister. Pharaoh took Sarai (Sarah) into his palace, and God plagued the household of Pharaoh, and he realized that Abraham was lying about his wife. He got rid of Sarah and gave Abraham cattle and slaves, and Hagar was one of the slaves given to Abraham. According to the Muslims, Hagar was the daughter of Pharaoh of Egypt.. Sarah must have panicked when she could not get pregnant and God had promised Abraham that his inheritants would be very populous. Sarah then told Abraham to go into her slave, Hagar who would bear him a son and he would be a son to Sarah and Abraham. (Gen. 16:1-3).

The Chinese also has this custom of concubines bearing children on behalf of the first wife, who acknowledges the children as her own. The children of the concubines called the first wife, "Mother"., and referred to their own mothers as "Yee Ma" which means "second mother" and so on.

SARAH'S ACTIONS LED TO THE CONFLICT

God told Sarah that she would give Abraham a son and eventually she did. But Sarah did not believe God and instead had Hagar give birth to Abraham's son.

Since Sarah did not listen to God, it led to many problems between Hagar and Sarah. Sarah did not follow God's instructions and created her own problems. She should have relied on God and not do anything on her own.

The third reason that led to the conflict was because Sarah blamed other people for the problem. First, she blamed Hagar and then Abraham. She never thought it was her own fault for disobeying God. Blaming others do not solve problems. They only aggravate the matter.

Sarah, Abraham, Hagar home nordnet.,fr...
Sarah, Abraham, Hagar home nordnet.,fr...

HAGAR

Hagar was an Egyptian slave to Sarah in Abraham's household. She was probably very much younger than Sarah in her mid seventies. Slaves are sold mostly when they were young to the households of the rich. Hagar probably felt elated when her employer wanted to have a child with her. As a slave, she would now have a better status for she was a surrogate mother for her employer. When Hagar became pregnant, Sarah was despised in her eyes. Sarah complained to Abraham about her behaviour, and was told to deal with her as she felt. She was probably severe with Hagar who ran away from Sarah and fled into the wilderness by the fountain on the way to Shur.

The angel of the Lord said to her, "Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands (Genesis 16:9). And the angel said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude (v.10). And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: (v.11).

THE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE WIVES

Abraham was 86 years old when Hagar gave birth to Ishmael (Genesis 16:16). The conflict started when Hagar was pregnant and she looked down on Sarah who was not pregnant. Sarah told Abraham about the situation and Abraham replied that she could deal with Hagar as she wished. The Bible did not say what Sarah did to her, but when Sarah "dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face (Genesis 16:6).

Probably Sarah must have been rather severe to Hagar for her to run away when she was pregnant. But the angel of the Lord persuaded her to return to her mistress and that the Lord would bless her descendants. "And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael: because the Lord hath heard thy affliction (Genesis 16:11).

Fourteen years had passed and there was no more mention of the conflct between Sarah and Hagar. It could be that Sarah had felt that she gained the upper hand because Ishmael was in the eyes of the people her son though she did not give birth to him.

SPIRITUAL CONFLICT

Sarah gave birth to Isaac when she was ninety. When Isaac was weaned, Abraham made a great feast. Sarah saw Ishmael mocking, and she told Abraham, "Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."

This matter caused Abraham a lot of grief for he was the father of Ishmael. God spoke to Abraham, "Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of the bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed" (Genesis 21:12-13).

Abraham's grief was brought upon himself by not waiting for the Lord's blessing of a son, but listening to his wife's pleading to take another wife in order to have an heir. His sin is like that of Adam, who also listened to Eve, his wife. They were eventually cast out of the garden of Eden. When we run the race of life, we must run with patience waiting for the instructions of God. We cannot short circuit the route and not run the complete race set by God. All the misery of this life is caused by avoiding God's command. The contention between Sarah (Israelite), mistress, and Hagar (Egyptian) servant, would be a conflict of culture, religion and status of classes.

Psalms 123:2 writes: "Behold, as the eyes of servants look unto the hand of their masters, and as the eyes of a maiden unto the hand of her mistress; so our eyes wait upon the Lord our God, until that he have mercy upon us."

Hagar had been raised from a servant to that of wife of a master, and having a first born son raised her status from that of a servant. She, being a mother, felt superior to the childless Sarah. She might not take any orders from Sarah. On the other hand, Sarah who was a mistress and had servants under her control felt slighted by Hagar's behaviour. So the conflict fostered and came to a climax when Abraham was forced to send Hagar and Ishmael away because now Abraham listened to God and obeyed Him.

The action of sending away Ishmael away must have been tremendously painful for Abraham. What father can part with his son, even if it is from another woman and not his legitimate wife? He is still his flesh and blood.

Oneness in Marriage
Oneness in Marriage
Biblical Marriage
Biblical Marriage

BIBLICAL MARRIAGE

Both Sarah and Abraham were at fault in disobeying God. In the case of Sarah, she coaxed Abraham into accepting Hagar as a surrogate mother. Abraham, like Adam did not sin until their wives pleaded with them, though they really did not put much resistance in their behaviour. In this entanglement, Sarah and Abraham were guilty of recklessness, but Hagar was not because a slave has no choice of decision in the mattter. She just obeyed instructions.

Genesis 2:23-24 records, "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, for she was taken out of Man. Therefore shalt a man will leave his father and mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh."

God created man and then made woman to complement him. “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him” (Genesis 2:18).

Eve was created to be alongside Adam as his "other half," to be his aid and his helper. A man and woman, when married, become "one flesh." This oneness is manifested fully in the physical union of sexual intimacy. "So they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let man put asunder" (Matthew 19:6).

The apostle Paul refers to marriage and how believers are to operate within the marriage relationship. One such passage is 1 Corinthians chapter 7, and another is Ephesians 5:22-33. These two passages provide biblical principles that form a framework for a God-centered marriage relationship.

The Ephesians passage is an example of a successful biblical marriage. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, and he is the saviour of the body" (Ephesians 5:22-23).

"Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave himself up for it" (Ephesians 5:25).

"So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but he nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church(Ephesians 5:28-29).

“For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother ,and shall be joined unto his wife, and the two shall be one flesh” (Ephesians 5:31).

When a believing husband and wife institute God’s principles, a biblical marriage results. A biblically based marriage is one that is in balance, with Christ as the head of the man and the wife together. The biblical concept of marriage is a oneness between two individuals that pictures the oneness of Christ with His church.

DECISION THAT CHANGED HISTORY

The decision of Sarah for Abraham to have a child by Hagar and the fact that Abraham quietly agreed had great impact on the history of the world.

Ishmael lived 137 years (Genesis 25:17). He had 12 sons, who became the founders of Ishmaelite tribes that spread from Egypt to what is today Iraq. Many of the modern-day Arab peoples correctly recognize that they are the descendants of Ishmael, while the Jews, and the rest of the Israelites, are descendants of Isaac - but all are descended from Abraham. (Daily Bible Study - Ishmael.

If Sarah did not get into her head for Hagar to have a son for Abraham, and if Abraham did not agree, then today there will be no Arabs or Ishmaelites.  The world would be a more peaceful one today.  Both Sarah and Abraham made mistakes for not remembering God's promise.  Abraham, however, was redeemed in God's sight by agreeing to cast out Hagar and Ishmael.  God said that Ishmael would be a great nation because Ishmael was Abraham's son, though not the promised heir.

Galatians- Volume 34 - Why does Paul resort to allegory ...

media.ctsfw.edu/Video/ViewDetails/1244Galatians- Volume 34 - Why does Paul resort to allegory about Abraham and his two wives in bringing his argument to a close? (Video).

Abraham and Two Wives

Abraham should not have two wives who caused great conflict in the family. Do you agree?

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Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

Yes, the Biblical scenario is that the husband and wife are believers (equally yoked in Christ), so the wife has peace in her husband's obedience to the Lord and trusts his leadership. As was the case with Abigail and Nabal, however, Abigail had to obey God's orders over her husband's rebellion in 1 and 2 Samuel. When our foundation isn't right, God can make it right ~ but, much oppression is the outcome when one or both are disobedient to God's Word.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

In this case, there was a reversal of role for Abraham and Adam for the wives initiatied the action, and the husbands followed blindly.

Abigail staved off the anger of David against her husband, Nabal's behaviour (1 Sam. 25). Peace.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

Quite the defender! I think it's a complicated situation at times like theirs, as had she submitted to her husband's will, David and his armies were on the way to kill them both and everything they owned. She was wise. Turns out God's wrath came upon Nabal and David and Abigail lived happily ever after. Not always the case...I really feel for those married to rebellious spouses ~ on either side.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Abigail was wise and beautiful. She reacted quickly, apologizing, appeasing David and so saved her own soul and eventually marrying David.

Not all who married rebellious spouses end out well. It is sad but true.


Unchained Grace profile image

Unchained Grace 6 years ago from Baltimore, MD

Think about it. How many Ishmaels do we have in our own lives? Einron, many never got so deeply into this as you have and you provided an excellent insight into the relationship of all those involved.

It is vitally important, therefore, that the husband be not just a leader by virtue of God's Word but to be an example as well. Realistically, why would a Godly woman follow the direction of the husband if what he was saying or doing was clearly against God's Word?

Clearly, being equally yoked eradicates many problems, though the onus is still on the husband/father to lead by example and not by word alone. I've counseled more than a few who praise the Lord in public and create sheer Hell behind closed doors. Domestic violence is a factor in Christian couples. I've seen it personally.

So, both Hagar and Ishmael were tossed out though the problem was not theirs. The problem belonged to Sarah first and Abraham second. How many children today are abused emotionally and physically because of issues between the parents? Too many.

Care to guess how many serial killers point to such things as the root cause of what they did?

Some are just playing the blame game while others? It turns out to be a legit causation. Boys who see their mother abused become abusers. Children learn what they live so perhaps we need to wonder, once again, how many Ishmaels lie at the base of dysfunctional families?


A M Werner profile image

A M Werner 6 years ago from West Allis

Einron, this is extremely well written. I loved it. As a man myself however, I teach other young men that the blame never lies with the woman. The Lord made you the head. That is a huge responsibility and something not to be taken lightly. No matter how much your spouse tempts you to do what you know in your heart not to do, it is your responsibility to obey the Lord first. Yes, Sarah put the temptation out there - but the fall is Abraham's to bear. Just like in the Garden of Eden. The fall did not occur when she ate but when Adam ate. (Personally, I believe there was a sexual situation that happened wrongly with Adam also - :) I should write a hub). Peace.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 6 years ago from HubPages, FB

Really great hub. Thank you very much. When Eve was deceived Adam was not. He stayed next to her. He was responsible. This is why man has to stay on Word of God and woman should fallow. But God created Adam's wife to help him not to negotiate future with the counselor, the lair - Satan.

By grace of God I had a special wife before she moved to heaven. I fallow Word of God and she always agreed. We never had conflict.

It would be also good to address Sarah and Hagar, picture of two covenants.

The Old Covenant as well as Hagar gone.

To brother Unchained Grace, to say it was nothing sexual in their grave problem.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Unchained Grace

Thank God for helping me in writing this hub. It took me quite a while to figure all this. Satan deterred me by having computer problems and I could not go on.

Definitely, the onus is on the husband, even if they are equally yoked together.

Most problem childrn have their root cause through the parent's behaviour.

Thanks for commenting.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

A M Werner

Just as the devil beguiled Eve, Sarah in turn tempted Abraham, who did not resist. Abraham seemed to have no influence over Sarah. If Abraham saw straight, he could well rebuke his wife not to put temptation in his way.

I hope all those who read the hub will learn the lesson, and not let the blind leading the blind. God made the man in charge of the household and the man is responsible. In politics, the minister is respoonsible for all his staff's action in the Ministry.

Looking forward to your writing on the sexual overtones of Adam and Eve's downfall.

Peace


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

You mean to tell us that Adam and Abraham had no brains of their own? That is rediculous. When you stop putting all the blame of the women and start living with equality just maybe you guys would understand alot more and understand that God made all of us in THEIR images--mean man and woman. Satan was never mentioned in Genesis, but the Serpent was. Check up the sumerrian stories about the beginning and the Garden Of Eden. I wrote a hub about The Closed Lost Garden of Eden http://hubpages.com/hub/Closed-Lost-Garden-of-Eden . Maybe we can all learn something.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Vladmir Uhri

True, Eve was made to be a helper, not a tempter!

You were indeed, blessed to have a good wife who agreed with you in all respects.

I had in mind about Sarah and Hagar, the old and new covenants.

Peace.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Lady Guinevere

Adam and Abraham did have brains, but they could not pass the temptations of their wives. Sex has lured many to their downfall.

All fall short of the glory of God.

Peace!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Yeah right!

Galatians 3:28 (Young's Literal Translation)

28there is not here Jew or Greek, there is not here servant nor freeman, there is not here male and female, for all ye are one in Christ Jesus;

Numbers 11:29, "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put His spirit upon them!"

Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm." And may we be reminded of the Scripture in Acts 5:39, "If it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

http://www.circleofchristianwomen.com/women_pastor...


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

LG, this hub is not addressing women prophesying, but the marriage relationship between Christ and the Church, exemplified through the marriage of husband and wife. If you'd like to read up on this, I have a hub called "Your Daughters Shall Prophesy".


Smireles profile image

Smireles 6 years ago from Texas

Very good and interesting hub. It is very easy for contemporary people to judge Adam and Abraham but the truth is that our culture is so different that we many times miss the boat. I doubt that sexual issues played so large a role in either Adam's downfall or Abraham's mistake. Our society's unhealthy focus on sex is far beyond the attitude of the old world.

When God created Eve he said that it was not good for man to be alone. Companionship is another reason, not the only one for Adam to want to keep Eve.

As for Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar...Hagar knew her place and she allowed pride to set her up against her mistress. She was not a wife. She was a servant and she knew it. She allowed her desire for equalty and her proud attitude to get her and her son into trouble.

Einron, I enjoyed your article very much. Keep hubbing!


Nicks 6 years ago

Frankly, any man who has two wives is a braver man than me and is one who is challenging the immutable laws of survival...


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Lady Guinevere

YOU WROTE: Acts 5:39, "If it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

ANSWER: True. God does not interfere in every decision of man for He allows us free will to act.

Judgment comes later.

In this situation, both Sarah and Abraham were disobeying God for Sarah doubted God's promise that she would have a son by Abraham. Abraham had Ishmael when he was eighty-six, and Sarah was seventy-six. Sarah probably doubted God and planned to have a son by surrogate means. Peace.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah' Daughter

Thanks for answering Lady Guinevere's comments.

True what you said. It is "the marriage relationship between Christ and the Church, exemplified through the marriage of husband and wife." Peace!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

einron, I can find anything that you can find in your present day bible that contradicts anything that you quote from scripture. I don't think that Jesus told us to do such things.

Judah's Daughter, I really don't care to read anything that you have written becasue as you say, I need saved and until you all stop the judging of others I will not.

The points were addressed about women. So therefore I borught it up. When you do the research of what the bible was before the 6th centrury and realize that it has been manipulated and find the truth in that then youwill understand that we have no business in dealing with what is behind closed doors of others.

Where did it say that Christ married anything in the bible?

Einron, when you said that the women's tempting was far stronger than the man, well that makes you look like you are weak.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Smireles,

YOU WROTE: Our society's unhealthy focus on sex is far beyond the attitude of the old world.

ANSWER: I do not think you were completely correct. Remember what King David did? Didn't he plan to murder Bathsheba's husband? When a man lusts aftr a woman, he will probably plan for something worse than just lusting to get his prey.

YOU WROTE:

Companionship is another reason, not the only one for Adam to want to keep Eve.

ANSWER: Partly true, not completely. Marriage is for procreation.

Gen. 1:28

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

YOU WROTE:

She was not a wife.

ANSWER:

Gen. 16:3 "... and gave her to her husband Abram to be his WIFE.

Peace.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Lady Guinever

YOU WROTE: youwill understand that we have no business in dealing with what is behind closed doors of others.

ANSWER:

I think it was said by Pierre Trudeau, and not the Bible. Can you give any citation?

YOU WROTE:

Where did it say that Christ married anything in the bible?

ANSWER:

The bible does not say that Jesus married anybody physically.

However, Jesus is depicted as a Lamb of God and the Bride of the Lamb is His Church.

YOU WROTE:

Einron, when you said that the women's tempting was far stronger than the man, well that makes you look like you are weak.

ANSWER: True in the sense that when Sarah tempted Abraham, she appeared to be stronger in that situation. She was controlling the situation.

Well, it is okay to say that I appear weak according to your opinion. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.

Peace!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

No I said that, not the bible or whoever,, Who depicted Jesus as that and when? So you are now saying that Jesus is an animal? and a female, becaseu a "BRIDE" is only female. No, that makes all man appear weak, not just you and since when was anyone not created equal? Isnt' that why God took a rib of Adam and made Eve so that they would be equal and not either of them lesser than the other? Read my hub the Story of The Garden of Eden and there are a few video's in that hub too.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Nicks

YOU WROTE:

Frankly, any man who has two wives is a braver man than me

and is one who is challenging the immutable laws of survival

ANSWER: You are a thoughtful man. You may have to contend with two tigers, each vieing for your attention/love! Praise the Lord. Peace.


SEO IT! profile image

SEO IT! 6 years ago from Tucson, AZ

I love my God and I love Jesus, but males wrote much of the Bible -- while inspired to write it by God, they were human after all. All this shows is that men have been blaming women for their problems since the dawn of time.

Even with what the Bible has to say, Eve was convinced by a TALKING animal, for goodness sake. She offered it to Adam and he jumped right on it...

Why would God intend for women to be basically OWNED by people who make choices according to their sexual "needs"?

Abraham? Led by what was between his legs. He was offered the chance to get with another woman -- sanctioned by his wife no less -- and so he jumped on it. Shall we all assume men can't lead because they can't control their sexual desires?

Do Abraham and Adam represent men and their inability to think beyond their "nether" regions?

Would it be right to assume that? I wouldn't want to think so.

I don't believe Sarah represents "women". She represents a person who didn't trust.

Adam and Eve sinned. Abraham and Sarah sinned.

It took me years to come back to God because I spent so much of my life feeling like I mattered less for being "female".

It wasn't until I realized that God really didn't make me to serve a man - that He made me to be his partner, that I came back to God. If I believe otherwise, I sell myself AND God short. And honestly, if I took the "men can't help it because they get so excited ("she made me do it") thing to heart, I think I'd be selling men short, too.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Lady Guinever

YOU WROTE:

So you are now saying that Jesus is an animal? and a female, becaseu a "BRIDE" is only female.

ANSWER:

The Bible describes the meekness of Jesus as that of a lamb, and the church is the bride of the Lamb. I did not say that Jesus is female. You misunderstood me.

Both male and female are created equal, but with different functions. The male is still the master of the household. The female function is to bear children, and nothing can be done to change the situation. Have a good day!


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

SEO IT!

It is good that you love God and Jesus, and so do I.

YOU WROTE:

Why would God intend for women to be basically OWNED by people who make choices according to their sexual "needs"?

ANSWER:

We cannot question God on His reasons why He made us so? We are the clay. Can the clay tell the potter what He should fashion us into? A thing of beauty or just a drinking mug?

YOU WROTE:

I don't believe Sarah represents "women". She represents a person who didn't trust.

ANSWER:

Fair enough! She was a person who did not trust the promise of God. We probably did the same mistake ourselves because we are all human beings. Nobody is perfect.

YOU WROTE:

Adam and Eve sinned. Abraham and Sarah sinned.

ANSWER:

Very true, because we are all human beings and made from dust. BUT because of the love of God and Jesus Christ, we have the infilling of the Holy Spirit which strengthens us not to sin. When we sin, we have to pray to Jesus Christ for forgiveness, and He will forgive us.

Glad that you know more about God's will now.

Peace and good morning!


SEO IT! profile image

SEO IT! 6 years ago from Tucson, AZ

Wow. You didn't really respond or give a thought out answer to what I had to say but reiterated how good of a teacher you are... I don't need you to tell me about God's will -- He can do that, but according to the Bible (Paul actually), women are supposed to sit down and shut up when it comes to preaching. I know about God's forgiveness and luckily, He doesn't have a problem with me disagreeing with you -- or Paul for that matter. So what about Paul? Are you not sinning by being female and preaching anyway? Or is there another line to God you have that "I" don't? Do you realize how pretentious and arrogant your comments back to me seem? Peace back to you, too, and I'm dropping it.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

Hey, SEO? I just recently discovered that Paul was addressing "wives" in the church assembly, not "females" (based on the Greek wording and context). There were many female prophetesses in the Bible, and even Junia, a female Apostle who was saved long before Paul was. This is covered in my hub "Your Daughters Shall Prophecy". This information helped me understand these passages more clearly. Be blessed.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND

This is very well written. As a woman, I agree that man is called to be head of the household. Husbands have a lot of responsiblity and they cannot effectively lead without the help of the Holy Spirit. There is such a breakdown of the family today and I believe it is because the men are not looking to God for guidance on how to run their household. You have tackled a difficult subject very well.


Chief Apathetic 6 years ago

Paul said that there is neither male of female in Christ, but then goes on to make up separate rules for men & women.? Is that hypocrisy, or the start back into Pharisee Religion that will usually become Religious Political Pharisee Religion.

Since there is never anything new under the sun human beings don't often examine the either the nature of the other gender, or even culture of other people's as thought varies from culture to culture about roles of people within a culture & there thoughts about living life upon planet earth in relationship to God.

A person who understands Jesus saying there will only be two types of people, those that hear his sayings, & and keep them, and those who hear his sayings & do not keep them actually don't need the thoughts of Paul, or any other person to live their own lives, and make their own freewill decisions about their life.

They won't even need to be a part of any man made Religious System. They will have to live under a man made Worldly Government system until their lives are concluded in this world, they don't have to partake personally of any man made Political thought of man's worldly Political system unless stated by the laws of the world of man.

As there isn't anything new under the sun most all things are reduced to do your work, render unto Caesar what is Caesars, obey the law, pay your own bills, & die.


SEO IT! profile image

SEO IT! 6 years ago from Tucson, AZ

Judah's Daughter:

So it is only when we become WIVES that we are supposed to sit down and shut up? I have such an issue with that... I tend to think that if God wanted that, he would not have given some of us brains and he would have made MORE men smarter. The problem I have with the whole thing is the idea that I am somehow not "equal" to my husband and must submit to him (he would argue with anyone on that, by the way). Men wrote the Bible -- men, who at the time, had SERIOUS issues with women. Jesus Christ never said wives were of less value than men. Old and New Testament men with obvious prejudice did. I won't argue that those men were holy, but I will argue that they were not deity. It is the same with modern day preachers -- they are only human and some of their prejudices are bound to show. If Christ lays it on my heart that my husband should be "boss" and we are not equal partners, then I'll see it differently. For now, I'll use the brain God gave me to be my husband's full and equal partner. By the way, I do believe that stay-at-home moms are full and equal partners, too. A woman's status as the one who minds the household does not void her intelligence or ability to make decisions -- on equal terms with her husband. Ack. I've argued all this before and in all honesty, I'm not sure what I hope to gain. Just the chance to have my opinion heard, I guess. Have a great weekend all :)!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

I hear you, SEO. Jesus said, if we want to be great we must be servants. The husband is to love His wife as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for her; He was obedient to suffer even death on a cross. Servant-leadership is not dictatorship that some husbands use to "lord" it over their wives. You might want to read my hub called "Your Daughters Shall Prophesy" because it really brings clarity to the big picture. Be blessed, sister.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

SEO IT

YOU WROTE:

Wow. You didn't really respond or give a thought out answer to what I had to say but reiterated how good of a teacher you are... I don't need you to tell me about God's will --

ANSWER:

Unfortunately, we do not agree on anything! One man's meat is another man's poison. So be it! We are entitled to our own opinions!

YOU WROTE:

Do you realize how pretentious and arrogant your comments back to me seem? Peace back to you, too, and I'm dropping it.

ANSWER:

I am sorry that I appear to be pretentious and arrogant to you. I agree that I have failed to reach you, and for that I feel sad. Peace!


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Cari Jean

Thank you for your remarks.

YOU WROTE:

Husbands have a lot of responsiblity and they cannot effectively lead without the help of the Holy Spirit. There is such a breakdown of the family today and I believe it is because the men are not looking to God for guidance on how to run their household.

ANSWER:

True that men cannot lead without the help of the Holy Spirit.

Men may think that since God gave them intelligence, they can use their own wit to solve their problems.

God bless.


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Chief Apathetic

YOU WROTE:

Paul said that there is neither male of female in Christ, but then goes on to make up separate rules for men & women.?

ANSWER:

Paul is saying here that there is neither male nor female in Christ SPIRITUALLY.

Separately, rules are made for the sexes PHYSICALLY.

No matter the culture, the laws of God apply equally throughout the world. Murder is abhorrent in all cultures, and so is child abuse.

YOU WROTE:

A person who understands Jesus saying there will only be two types of people, those that hear his sayings, & and keep them,

ANSWER:

On Judgment Day, there will be only two types of people, those who keep His sayings, and those who do not. Sexes do not matter then.

The dead will be judged on their behaviour during their lifetime, good or bad.

YOU WROTE:

those who hear his sayings & do not keep them actually don't need the thoughts of Paul, or any other person to live their own lives, and make their own freewill decisions about their life.

ANSWER:

Paul's writings are essential for us to follow because Jesus chose him as an apostle to teach them and expand on the teachings of the Lord.

We follow Christ, and no one else. The Bible is our reference book on God and Jesus Christ from time past.

I recommend you to read the following:

Prophecy: Isaiah 4:1 Seven Women and One Man

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/prophecy-i

GOD'S SABBATH OR MAN'S SABBATH

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/godormansa

40,965 DENOMINATIONS FOLLOW JESUS

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/40965denom...


Abrushing1968 profile image

Abrushing1968 6 years ago from USA- Florida

Einron- This Hub was a winner in my opinion. Thank you for taking the time to tackle such a difficult subject. I applaud your diligence and your patiencs. For indeed there are many a man who will not take their God given place as head of the home for lack of spine and purpose. That being said there is many a wife who refuses to allow their husband to be the head by submitting herself to him.

The Husband/Wife relationship is representitive of the God/Man relationship. In the role of the wife we see the role of the church and ultimatly all saved humans regardless of the gender. I beleive that the Christian Home and the Christian Church are visible representaions of the kingdom of God. Through both the Church and the Home, God teaches us, and the world, how we are to relate to Him. As you examine the Biblical picture of the family you see Kingdom principles woven into its DNA. On the day of judgement, Man will be with out excuse. For God has given them everything they need to understand His Kingdom and to return their will, in submission, to Him

As a Christian, Jesus is my God and Master, He is my Lord. I submit to him because I love him. He has not demanded my obedience he asked for it. I willingly and deliberatly give it to him. This is my free will to do so.

This is exactly what supposed to happen in the husband wife relationship. The wife willingly and delibertly gives her self to her husband. Her obediance is a gift of love. In Ephesians 5:22 Paul wrote

"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord."

He said this because he understood that the role of the wife is a tangible representation of the submitted Christian. God understands the difficulties that surround this. Husbands are not gods. this is why Paul further instructed Husbands to Love their wives as Christ loved the Church Ephesians 5:25

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,"

Paul is bringing the Goal into focus. This is what we are to shoot for. Often we will fall short. The point is, that Men have to be told and women have to be told. We all have to be reminded of our roles. When one or the other refuses to walk in obediance to their God given roles they are acting out the Garden all over agian.

Ladies who resent their husbands leadership have taken up Eves script and is acting out her part. For the conflict that arise in the marriage over the husbands authority is a picture of original sin. Man says to God "I know just as well as you do!" "I will be my own God, I will decide for myself what is right and wrong" Just as the wife says to her Husband, "I am your equal, who do you think you are to tell me what to do. "We are partners, I am not your slave."

While these statements have a bit of truth, they reveal the wifes rebellious heart toward her husband. Just as Eve first, then Adam, rebelled agianst God. They are reminding the world why and how they lost the Garden. That place where mankind knew the sweetness and the richness of a relationship with God at home in His presense. That place we all long to return.

To the woman He(God) said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” Gen 3:16

All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: William Shakespear

Thanks Einron for allowing me to share my heart on your hub. Keep proclaiming the truth Bro.

In Christ

ABR


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Abrushing1968

YOU WROTE:

The Husband/Wife relationship is representitive of the God/Man relationship. In the role of the wife we see the role of the church and ultimatly all saved humans regardless of the gender.

ANSWER:

The wife willingly and deliberately gives herself to her husband as the church gives herself to the Lord in love.

YOU WROTE:

Ladies who resent their husbands leadership have taken up Eves script and is acting out her part. For the conflict that arise in the marriage over the husbands authority is a picture of original sin.

ANSWER:

Sarah did exactly as Eve in the Garden of Eden. Both Adam and Eve were cast out from God's sight. Adam laid the blame on Eve, and she blamed the serpent. But in Abraham's case, I was not aware that he blamed his wife, but he consented to her plan, which is just as wrong.

In Genesis 3:16, God said to Eve, "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conceptiion; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

Peace.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

Regarding Gen 3:16, 1 Tim 2:15 states “But women shall be preserved through the bearing of children [speaking of release from the original curse], if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.” (these are fruits/gifts of the Spirit)

Paul clarifies the husband and wife’s oneness (Greek word mia, feminine form of the Hebrew word heis ~ as in the oneness of Jesus and the Father) in 1 Corinthians 11:11-12 "However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God."

God's original design for men and women in found in Genesis 1:26-27 “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’ And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” This was the perfect plan of God. That plan was cursed with the "husband shall rule over thee", but I believe that curse was broken through Christ.

If we then look at Colossians 3:9-11, we see a renewal to God’s original design: “Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him - a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythina, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.” (I believe this would include no distinction between male and female – Gal 3:28)

In this same passage, in verse 14 “And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.”


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

YOU WROTE:

1 Corinthians 11:11-12 "However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God."

ANSWER:

Very appropriate verse.

YOU WROTE:

This was the perfect plan of God. That plan was cursed with the "husband shall rule over thee", but I believe that curse was broken through Christ.

ANSWER:

I believe all curses will be broken if we completely surrender to God.

YOU WROTE:

(I believe this would include no distinction between male and female – Gal 3:28)

ANWER;

Spiritually, there is no distinction between male and female. But physically, there is.

Peace.


Abrushing1968 profile image

Abrushing1968 6 years ago from USA- Florida

Einron:

There are two sepporate issues being discussed here. Gender equality as it relates to Salvation and gender equality as it relates to Authority. God does not distinguish between Men and woman in matters of Salvation. How ever in Matters of Authority God gave Adam more authority and placed him as the head over Eve. This was in place before the fall and had nothing to do with Sin but everything to do with God's will.

Indeed God intended them both to rule over all creation and rule they did.

Genesis 1:26-27 “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’ And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Both had authority over creation However, Eves Authority was established through Adam's. Eve had authority because Adam had Authority.

When it came to the the husband/wife relationship God called Eve, Adam's Helper. (?e?zer in Hebrew)

Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper (?e?zer) who is like him."

The word helper shows that she is an aid for Adam.

It expresses and implies Adams Authority over Eve. Adam was the forman and Eve was his assistant.

Further Eve was taken out of man Not Adam from Eve

Gen 2:21-23 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to come over the man, and he slept. God took one of his ribs and closed the flesh at that place. Then the LORD God made the rib He had taken from the man into a woman and brought her to the man. And the man said:

"This one, at last, is bone of my bone,

and flesh of my flesh;

this one will be called woman,

for she was taken from man."

Notice that the account records that 1.God brought Eve to Adam and 2. Adam named her. These actions established Adam's Authority over Eve.

Now with this in mind lets take a look at 1st Corinthians 11:11-12 in context

1 Cor 11:7-12 A man, in fact, should not cover his head, because he is God's image and glory, but woman is man's glory. For man did not come from woman, but woman came from man; and man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why a woman should have [a symbol of] authority on her head: because of the angels. However, in the Lord, woman is not independent of man, and man is not independent of woman. For just as woman came from man, so man comes through woman, and all things come from God.

As you can plainly see this passage is confirming Man's Authority.

Folk ofton quote Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

This is offered as as proof that Women and men are equal in Authority. It is one of the justifications for Women to hold the office of Pastor.

This verse in contexted is speaking to Salavtion It has nothing to do with authority.

When it comes to Salvation Indeed there is neither male or female. we are one in the same.

Colossians 3:9-11 Is indeed speaking to the renewal

Colossians 3:5-11 Therefore, put to death whatever in you is worldly: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desire, and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, God's wrath comes on the disobedient, 7 and you once walked in these things when you were living in them. 8 But now you must also put away all the following: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and filthy language from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his practices and have put on the new man, who is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of his Creator. Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave and free; but Christ is all and in all.

Renuwal is a matter of salavtion. Once agian it has nothing to do with Authority. Through Christ we have indeed overcome the curse of death. However, since in the beginning God place Man in headship over the woman. The chain of command will not change.

I do not see that Salvation over turns the curse this side of heaven. If this were true then the saved Man would no longer have to work by the sweat of his brow nor would the saved Woman continue to have pain in childbirth. The renewal is indeed about overcoming sin but this takes place as we draw closer to God. Renewal is a restored relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

At all times and in everything I must choose to submitt my will to God. This was true before I was saved and equally true after I was saved. This is the same for the wife. She must choose to submitt to her husband thought out her life.

Because of the curse my flesh still desires to rebell agianst God. But I choose to submit. The curse declares to women that her desire will be for her husband and he will rule over her. The term "her desire will be for her husband" is speaking to her desire for his authority. This happens to day in the saved woman's life just as it does in the unsaved. The differance is the saved woman submits to her husband has she would to God.

In matters of Salvation we are not to discriminate. In matters of Authority. The Bible make every distinction between the genders.

In Christ

ABR


"Quill" 6 years ago

Joshua 24:15 "As for me and my household we will serve the Lord" I choose to follow what the Word speaks and openly admit we all sin no matter the gender.

No matter who wrote the Bible man or women it is God breathed, allow the Word to speak for itself.

Blessings In His Name


Darcy 6 years ago

'The world would be a more peaceful one today'

thinly veiled racism?


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Darcy

Thanks for your remarks!

May be thinly veiled racism as you put it.


OmNaser profile image

OmNaser 5 years ago from kuwait

The story of Abraham is not very similar to the Qur'anic base. Sarah offered Abraham to marry Hajar and she was so unselfish. She wanted Abraham to have a baby in order to continue the message of God. It wasnt mentioned in Qur'an that there is a conflict between the two of them.

Thanks


Twenty One Days 5 years ago

If not mistaken Abram had 3 wives, Sarah being the last to bear any children. James. :)


einron profile image

einron 5 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thank you for correcting me. I had forgotten about Keturah.


Twenty One Days 5 years ago

Not a correction, love, just an offhanded observation. :)

I recalled Keturah, since she is the mother of the Arabs --from her son Midian came Jethro, father of Miriam, whom Moses married. From Sarah came Issac, Jacob, Levi, Kohath (first priest of Israel) and then Amram the father of Moses. The generations are interesting and the time line from which the formation of Israel, the formation of Arabia and the build up of the super power, Egypt, just after Sodom's destruction. Just amazing.

James.


einron profile image

einron 5 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thanks for interesting info. od bless.


poeticmentor profile image

poeticmentor 5 years ago from New York City

I sure learned a lot. I won't get into the whole who wrote the bible and why we even follow literally what happen in these PARABLES. The words must be carefully understood. Interpretations with opinions can be misleading.


einron profile image

einron 5 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

poeticmentor

Interpretations can be misleading because the author injects his/her words or opinions into them.

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