TITHES AND CHARITY To Tithe or Not to Tithe

Tithes and charity are two very distinct types of offering; one is given to God while the other is an offering to the poor or needy. These two types of offering depict the love we have for God first while the second commitment is to help the needy thus fulfilling the second great command to love your neighbour as yourself (Matthew 22:39; Mark 12:31).


The article will discuss how tithes are derived from, and how charity has been recognized as a virtue and fostered by religion throughout history. Tithes had been first offered by Abraham, commanded by Moses and carried out by the Israelites.


Some Christians are confused over the issue of giving tithes or charity or both. They have to understand the meaning of the terms and when or how to apply them. Giving of tithes and charity are both commendable, but there is a definite difference. Giving of tithes is the tenth part of anything; a tax of one-tenth, especially of the yearly proceeds from land and personal industry, payable for the support of the clergy and church.


Tithes pertain mainly to the support of the clergy and church. One does not tithe to the general public as such. Charity, on the other hand means love of one's fellow, one of theological virtues; liberality to the poor; alms-giving; an act of kindness; good will; liberality of judgment; tolerance of faults and offences, a foundation or institution for assisting the poor, the sick or the helpless.


The question is whether one supports the church by giving of tithes or giving just to charity when one does not appreciate it when the money given to tithes is misspent and wasted on unnecessary or frivolus things.

ORIGIN OF TITHING IN SCRIPTURE

After God gave Abraham victory over his enemies in the rescue of Lot, he met Melchizedek king of Salem who brought bread and wine, he blessed him and gave him tithes of all (Genesis 14:18-20). Abraham was thankful to God for his victory over his enemies. His was the first example of tithing and God chose him for his faith in Him. Abraham was fully blessed and the Israelites were blessed for his sake throughout the generations. Out of David, his descendant came the Messiah from whom all nations are blessed.


LAW OF TITHING CAME FROM MOSES

When the Israelites reached the Promised Land, the eleven tribes of Israel were given distributed land for inheritance but not to the Levites, the priesthood was not given any land. Their sustenance was from the tithes given by the eleven tribes. Tithing was Israel's moral obligation to God for the blessings of their hands. The livelihood of the Levites was completely dependant on the tithes.


John 1:17 states: "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Moses introduced the tithe in the Levitical priesthood in Leviticus 27:30: "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or, of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord."

Verse 34: "These are the commandments, which the Lord commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai."

Numbers 18:24: "But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance."

THE LEVITES CHOSEN AS PRIESTS

Aaron and Moses were descendants of Levi, the third son of Jacob. Only Aaron was chosen to be the first High Priest of God. Only his descendants could be high priests while the other Levites were helpers to the priests (Numbers 3: The Levites' service).


Substituted in place of the firstborn children: Numbers 3:12, 41-45;8:14-18; 18:6.

Set apart as ministers of religion: Numbers 1:47-54; 3:6-16; 16:9;26:57-62; Deuteronomy 10:8

Aaron and his family were set apart as priests: Exodus 28:1; 29:9;

Numbers 17:1-4; 18:1

Cities assigned: Joshua 21

Tithes withhold: Malachi 3:8-10 "Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."


CHARITY


The word "charity" is used in the New Testament only, and in the Revised Version is always translated love. The common usage for charity is good will to the poor or almsgiving. To give to charity is highly commendable for it shows that one has a loving and merciful heart thus fulfilling the next most important commandment to love our neighbour as ourselves. When a person is in need and has nowhere to get help, that person would be grateful to God for getting someone to care for his or her needs. God moves the heart of the merciful to help the helpless and poor in society.


Charity has a double meaning, love to others in a non-monetary way and almsgiving which supply food, money etc. to fulfill the needs of the poor.


HISTORY OF CHARITY IN BRITAIN

The earliest charities go back nearly nine hundred years. One of the earliest is the Hospital of St Cross in Winchester which was founded by Bishop Henry de Blois, a grandson of William the Conqueror, in 1136. The Hospital still looks after old people and provides bread and ale to passing travellers who demand it.

Until the nineteenth century charities were largely established as the result of bequests made in the wills of rich merchants, and others, charitably minded or with perhaps half an eye on an easier passage through the pearly gates. As a result most towns have an almshouse or two housing elderly, but always respectable, men and women. Many schools were also established as the result of the result of charitable bequests.


In "Topic Giving," Brian O'Hagan writes:

"This year marks the 400th anniversary of the legal birth of charity in the UK, the point in history which modern charities in Britain owe their ancestry."

THE VIRTUES OF CHARITY

Paul in I Corinthians 13:1-3: "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (v.2) And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing: (v.3) And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."

David in Psalm 41:1: "Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the Lord will deliver him in time of trouble."

Proverbs 28:27: "He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse."

Matthew 19:21: "And Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."


CONCLUSION

You must contribute to charity as well as pay your tithes which is a tenth of your produce because you wish to be grateful to God for He has continued to bless you. Abraham was the perfect example of faith and God blessed him for his faithfulness and gratitude. We should be no less grateful than Abraham. As for contribution to charity, we must follow the second great commandment spoken by Jesus in Matthew 22:37-40.

 

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind (Mt. 2:37).

This is the first and great commandment (v.38).

And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself (v.39).

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets (v.40).

 

To not tithe is to not support the priesthood. So if you are a member of a church, how can you not support your church? If you have issues against your church, should you not pray to God to change the situation? Should you not pray for the welfare of the church instead of turning to other commitments? How the church spends the tithes is the prerogative of the church board. The members have no right to question the decision. Likewise, the church has no right to question how each member spends his earnings.


OBEY GOD AND FOLLOW THE EXAMPLES OF THE BIBLE AND YOU WILL NOT BE WRONG.

LIFTING UPHANDS IN WORSHIP AND PRAYER http://hubpages.com/hub/lifthands


Tithing video

tithing video - YouTube

► 1:46► 1:46www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_hxZEzD5xcFeb 7, 2013 - Uploaded by Mount Zion Baptist Church-Christian ComplexAn animated illustration of biblical tithing! ...

Tithes and Charity

Do you know that tithes and charity are two distinct types, one is to God, and the other is to Man?

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Do you know that if you love God, you tithe and if you love Man, you give to charity?

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Do you know that tithing is one tenth of your earnings and as for charity, there is no fixed sum.

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Comments 65 comments

Wehzo 8 years ago

Very interesting hub einron. You obviously did considerable study and research into this article. It is amazing how, we as Christians, can converse and even fellowship, in a limited way, from different parts of the world. God bless you.


Wbisbill profile image

Wbisbill 8 years ago from Tennessee USA

Groat Hub - informative. Thumbs up!

I have always believed and practiced tithing. It was not always easy but always a blessing. I am a retired pastor from small, non-salary churches. Because if some physical problems, a second job was hard to maintain. However, I tithed and gave as generously as I could. Our family sacrificed, but God blessed us. Today, we are debt free and own a lovely 5 Bedroom brick home in the country. God is good, All the time!

To the readers of your hub who are Christians I say, "Tithe and give to the 'best' of your abilityl Give cheerfully and generously; over time God will lift you financially and spiritually!"

Grace and Peace!


einron 8 years ago

Thanks for your comments and thumbs up. Tithing is not an option but a necessity. It is important to support the laity. We were also from a small church and my father was also a non paying minister of the church. He was a teacher in a Methodist school by day and a minister the rest of the day. We are not Methodists but teach in Methodist schools. The church is non-denominational.

Thank you for urging Christians to tithe. God does bless all those who tithe.

Malachi 3:10: "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now therewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive."

As regards charity, see the examples of rich men who give to charity, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates who are two of the richest men give to charity. God has blessed them tremendously.

All thanks to God.


terenceyap07 profile image

terenceyap07 8 years ago from Singapore

einron,

This contribution is well researched and very well presented. Could you please tell us somnething about non-denominational churches? I'm interested to know because we don't have such churches in Singapore. Thanks.


einron 8 years ago

Thanks for your comments!

Non-denominational means "not belonging to any sectarian group of churches, e.g Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, etc."

The church started in Beijing in 1917 and is an indigenous church not having its origin from any of the above named churches. It is purely native to China and according to Britannica Encyclopedia (1973), it was the third largest church in China at the time before China became a communist country.

The Bible is the only reference book the church refers to. Our day of rest is Saturday and we strictly adhered to the day of rest according to the Bible. Actually, the Sabbath day starts in the Friday evening, from sundown to sundown. Baptism is carried out in rivers, lakes, sea or natural waters created by God and the mode of baptism is when the person to be baptised goes into the water, his head is bowed as a sinner does not look upward to God before his sins are forgiven.

The bread in the Holy Communion is made by the minister and is one bread before distribution. The cup is freshly squeezed grapes.

We also believe in speaking in tongues. John 3:5 states: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (baptism) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit is the seal of promise of salvation (Ep.1:13,14). The apostles regarded speaking in tongues as the evident of receiving the Holy Spirit (Mk 16:17; Acts 2:4; 10:44-46; 19:6-7).

Footwashing is a sacrament because Jesus instituted it. It shows humility and service. Footwashing signifies having a part in the Lord (John 13:8).

The church also believe in miracles.

Another important concept is "ONENESS OG GOD." The word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible and is a man coined water. GOD is a spirit and cannot be described as "a person". Neither is the Holy Spirit a person. Trinity means "three persons in one." Impossible and degrading! Here GOD and His HOLY SPIRIT are classified as persons.

The church believes that GOD is a SPIRIT and JESUS and the HOLY SPIRIT are the manifestations of GOD. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus are the same SPIRIT.

Take for example, a man called "TOM".

1.


einron 8 years ago

Thanks for your comments!

Non-denominational means "not belonging to any sectarian group of churches, e.g Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, etc."

The church started in Beijing in 1917 and is an indigenous church not having its origin from any of the above named churches. It is purely native to China and according to Britannica Encyclopedia (1973), it was the third largest church in China at the time before China became a communist country.

The Bible is the only reference book the church refers to. Our day of rest is Saturday and we strictly adhered to the day of rest according to the Bible. Actually, the Sabbath day starts in the Friday evening, from sundown to sundown. Baptism is carried out in rivers, lakes, sea or natural waters created by God and the mode of baptism is when the person to be baptised goes into the water, his head is bowed as a sinner does not look upward to God before his sins are forgiven.

The bread in the Holy Communion is made by the minister and is one bread before distribution. The cup is freshly squeezed grapes.

We also believe in speaking in tongues. John 3:5 states: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (baptism) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit is the seal of promise of salvation (Ep.1:13,14). The apostles regarded speaking in tongues as the evident of receiving the Holy Spirit (Mk 16:17; Acts 2:4; 10:44-46; 19:6-7).

Footwashing is a sacrament because Jesus instituted it. It shows humility and service. Footwashing signifies having a part in the Lord (John 13:8).

The church also believe in miracles.

Another important concept is "ONENESS OG GOD." The word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible and is a man coined water. GOD is a spirit and cannot be described as "a person". Neither is the Holy Spirit a person. Trinity means "three persons in one." Impossible and degrading! Here GOD and His HOLY SPIRIT are classified as persons.

The church believes that GOD is a SPIRIT and JESUS and the HOLY SPIRIT are the manifestations of GOD. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus are the same SPIRIT.

Take for example, a man called "TOM".

1.


glassvisage profile image

glassvisage 8 years ago from Northern California

I never had heard of a tithe before. Thank you for the education on this term and the difference between tithes and charity, which is something I enjoy helping with :)


einron 8 years ago

Thank you glassvisage. It is not surprising you have not heard of "Tithes" before because many preachers shun the subject. They do not want their congregation to leave their churches because they preach about giving a tenth of their earnings to the church. If you are a true Christian, you would not object to giving a tenth of your earnings, but if you are not a strong believer, you would rebel.

I have heard of some churches imposing a tithe on their congregation. The churchgoer has to sign a sort of pledge to pay his or her tithe. However, the person may not fully subscribe their tithes. No church would ask how much a person earns.

True Christians will really believe what Malachi 3:8-10 says: "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now hereiwth, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

I invite you to read my other hubs, "Lifting up Hands in Worship and Prayer" and "A Tribute to the Seniors" where God bless three women and two men who are in their nineties and livinging useful lives. To live long is to honour your parents (Eph. 6:1-3): "Honour thy father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise; That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth."

Praise the Lord.


deb 8 years ago

I thank you for the concise differentiation b/t tithe and charity as often I think we believe "giving" a 1/10 to the needy constitutes "tithing" and we feel our $$ is going where we feel led to give but this really makes it clear that it's really translated specifically to give to the Priests/Ministers/Church itself 1st and then give more as we can to support the needy- either financially or perhaps with our time and efforts.

with peace

deb


Pastor Ross 8 years ago

http://www.tithingdebate.com/

The above link should be both an eye opener and a warning from our Western Brothers. In the 1600's, Martin Luther who restored justification by faith alone for the "peasent" Christian said these words,

"There is no divine authority for preaching that the soul flies out of purgatory immediately as the money clinks in the till - Martin Luther, Disputation on the power and efficacy of Indulgencences

The teaching of tithing are on the Laws of God designed for the O.T. Check the Book of Acts: What was the requirement placed on Gentiles? If we, being gentles with our fellow Asian brothers and Sisters in Christ believe in anything else except by Sola Christ then our faith has become added to by an obedient requirement to be not cursed.

In my Australian Western Culture, tithing and its teaching has become corrupted to mean a curse for those who do not. But Galations both warns and tells us, we have been redeemed from the curse of BOTH Adam and of the Law.

The required acts of Good Works for all men regardless of race or creed are based on GOD's LOVE, not on what we do for God.

I have a question for those who wish to apply a Law or any LAW in this present dispensation of redeeming and showing forth God's love regardless of human weakness.

If we had a God that loves me no more of any less then the day on which I believed, would I still follow and be a disciple?

What then is the power to do good? Is it our performance in our giving? Do I give my body to burn for his Kingdom?

The cry from Corthinian love chapter is LOVE. As I am establishing our Church, this church will NOT be based on any tithing doctrine but on giving Christ's love UNCONDITIONLY to the world and allowing the poor and in that spirit in society to inherit God's Kingdom.

As an able minister of the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ, I trust in the giving according the Corithinian model rather then the contrived wealth, prosperity and promised removal of curse. A corruption of the Gospel that Martin Luther did decry so many centuries before. I say: Restore the Christ that saves and loves back to the world - then we will see the harvest that is God's due. The giving then is based on the Spirit of God in a person's heart rather then externalised Law which the devil so longs for Christian's to return back under. The yoke of bondage.

1 Corinthians 15:56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

Galations 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.


einron profile image

einron 8 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thanks Deb for seeing the differentiation. Many people feel that giving tithes and charity can be lumped together for it serves the same purpose. It is not. In fact when I started to write the hub, this gets more clearer to me. I thank God for revealing the real difference.

God bless.


einron profile image

einron 8 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thank you Pastor Ross for your comments.

Unfortunately, we do not agree on the principles of tithing. Martin Luther did some good in that he protested strongly on the selling of indulgences (money to redeem souls). In this case no one is selling or buying indulgences to redeem souls. Souls cannot be redeemed for any amount of cash. We are saved by faith and not of works.

Christians are asked to give one tenth of their produce to support the church. We have a very strong defence team in Abraham, the first man to contribute to the support of the church when he came back victorious after a battle. Next we have Moses who commanded the Israelites to give to the Levites (Num. 18:21).

In NT, the Levites have a commandment to take tithes of the people.

According to Paul in 1 Cor. 9:14: "Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. However, Paul did not take any money, but continued to work and support himself. as a tentmaker.

The Levites also give tithes of the tithes they received from the people. The Levites are not exempt from tithes giving.

The third person on our defence team is Malachi. In Malachi 3:7-8:

"Return unto me, and I will return unto you, said the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? (v.8) Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robed them? In tithes and offerings."

God is accusing you of robbing Him, not me.

YOUR ONLY DEFENCE IS YOUR OWN LOGIC. You have not cited any verse which says you can do away with "Tithes." Wherein is the proof you are right?

You tend to overlook the people chosen by God, Abraham, Moses, the Levites andalso Malachi. Instead you would rather follow men of learning as your examples. I have read what you recommended at the beginning of your comments and find them just as faulty. Return to the Lord.


Pastor Ross 8 years ago

As a man of God preaching the full Gospel and seeing miracles and many come to Kingdom over the years one thing stands out - The Galation Heresies are revived in tithing. Read carefully Galations and the Corinthian for giving to ministers of the Gospel under NEW Covenant. We must not forget the often quoted from the O.T. are only types of richer and fuller freedom and obedience according the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ. There is a Spirit of Law that has besotten our Australian church and as one able minister along with many others we are beginning to the effects of the Galation Spirit of error has on the freedom of the Holy Spirit to move with power.

In the cause of the Gospel I have attached a Parody and in the parody I express publically now all the scriptures that are often quoted. Each are dismantled under the terms of and reference to the New Covenant. The covenants must not be confused. We cannot have two covanants for one will exclude the other in freedom we have now in the Spirit. Of course give to ministers of the gospel but give more liberally then your obligated 10% according to law . When Jesus struck the powers of hell down and the work on the cross was finished, the veil was rent from top to bottom within the temple. It is recorded how the temple priests - The house of God according to old Covenant was bandaged up and repaired and tithes continued when God himself through the resurrection of Christ struck it down.

Now I expose the wrongness of this teaching:

The trial of Pastor JonesJudge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them. How do you plead?Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor, I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold. Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you.Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he?Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right.Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: No.Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?Mr. Jones: Well, just once.Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?Mr. Jones: No it does not.Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says.Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessionsand tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?Mr. Jones: I guess notJudge: You guess not, you are a Pastor and you are only guessing, is it oris it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe toanyone?Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen.Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder?Judge: So plunder could be any number of things?Mr. Jones: Yes, I supposeJudge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct, it does not say just moneyJudge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all is that correct Mr. Jones?Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food andpeople.Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham infact gave Melchizedek any money at all?Mr. Jones: That is right.Judge: I only have one last question for you Mr. Jones, did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek?Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily.Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church?Judge: Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain. Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example. Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones.Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you." Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs's example, is that right Mr. Jones?Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too.Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant.Judge: What did you mean then?Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also.Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow. Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.Judge: Answer me this Mr. Jones, were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money?Mr.


Pastor Ross 8 years ago

Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that.Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money. Mr. Jones: well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?Mr. Jones: I don't knowJudge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.Judge: Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?Mr. Jones: I do not know of any.Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?Mr. Jones: Man must have.Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe.Judge: Ok let me hear it.Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing.Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to?Mr. Jones: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee?Mr. Jones: Of course not.Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones?Mr. Jones: No.Judge: Why not?Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it.Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law?Mr. Jones: When He was crucified.Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death?Mr. Jones: That is correct.Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you?Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.Judge: Is money mentioned?Mr. Jones: No it was not.Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, my salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people.Judge: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones. The tithe was never money; the tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings. We are under a new covenant now. Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart. If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all.Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore.Judge: Mr. Jones, I can see that you done this in ignorance and are repentant, this court will not hold you accountable. It is your responsibility to know the truth. I would advise you and everyone else in this courtroom to really start studying the Bible and seeking God on the subject of tithing and your eyes will be open. Do not just take mans word any longer. Start seeking God as to how and where He would have you give. Court adjourned.


einron profile image

einron 8 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thank you again Pastor Ross for your comments.

I refer you to "God's People Tithe!" by Roderick C. Meredith http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/media/booklets/GodsP...

You have very cleverly portrayed yourself as an Attorney questioning an accused in the courtroom who is in awe of the questioner. Do you belong to the New Age Religion? Just curious!

It is true that in the OT the tithe consists of the land whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree is of the Lord's. In Deu. 14:24-25, I "And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee: (v.25) Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thy hand, and shalt go unto the place the Lord thy God shall choose. You can see that the tithe can be converted into money.

It is true that the priesthood has changed with the coming of Jesus, who is Melchisedec, king of Salem and of peace. He blessed Abraham when Abraham met him after his victory. In Hebrews 7:11-12, the priesthood was changed, but the tithes revert once again to God's spiritual ministers. Christ was the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8). The tithing was set or instituted by the Father in the OT, but Jesus Christ is the Word (John 1:1, 14) made flesh in the NT.

"Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." So how can the tithing law be rejected? Show me! The renting of the veil when Jesus died on the cross does not negate the law of tithes.

Another saying of Jesus in Mark 12:17: Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.

You should not subtract or add anything to the words of the prophecy of the Bible. "For I testify unto every man that heareth the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: (v.19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

DO NOT MEDDLE WITH THE LAWS OF THE BIBLE. The Bible is not the Court of the Land which can be altered by the will of the people. The Bible is the authority of the Lord, why should man dictate to the Lord God Almighty? You cannot say to your Saviour and Redeemer, I know what is in your mind, and change the law. Can you change your length of days on this earth? NEVER!


Pastor Ross 8 years ago

Dear one of faith, Eibron, I am of the faith of Jesus, I believe on the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. I also believe in miracles for today. Jesus ROSE physically from the dead and is seated at God's right hand. He will return a second time to resurrect all the saints of God but before He does He will ressurect all those who have died in Christ first.

There is no salvation outside of belief, adherence and faith that produces evidence of good works pleasing to God. WE walk by faith and not by natural senses. However our MIND must be rernewed in the fashion of the Spirit and not be conformed to the Spirit of this age - who is the hidden anti-christ - the deceiver from long ago. Jesus died for my sins and your sins on the Cross according to the will of the Father.


einron 8 years ago

Thank you Pastor Ross.

I am glad that you have responded to what I have written. Please continue to read my hubs and feel free to comment on what you think is not quite right. If we love the Lord, He will direct our thoughts to the right direction and if we are humble enough, we can learn from each other.

I am a fairly new member of Hub Pages and I do like to hear what others say so I may be able to learn more from others. So far I have written 12 hubs and I have not receive that many comments. I welcome you to comment on any of them for I know you have a sincere love for God. May God bless you.


Pastor Ross 8 years ago

Dear Einron

There will be some mighty churches in Australia that will likely fall to scandal sometime in 2009. The trouble begins with a church in Sydney. They collect over 32 million in dollars per year in tithes and offerings. The only person receiving most of that money seems to the top pastor of that church. There is no accountability to the people or that money getting to the needy or welfare programs run by this church being appropiately applied. Scandal also has broken out on money that seems to disappear in a black hole by an elite few at the top.

We need to pray as some Australian churches are getting wealthy too much by a select few at the top. I do not mind giving but when money corrupts our ministers it is cause for concern as the Gospel receives a poor testimony to the world. Money gifts to the church must be led by the Spirit of the persons heart, not by cohersion or demand to support the ministry.

Reminds of the minster who paid an expensive meal for a young couple and remains secret who paid the bill. This minister then "spoils' his blessing by blabbing to his 3,500 strong congregation what he did. Jesus said, "if you do things in secret helping others, your heavenly Father will openly reward you". Now he unfortunately used this to get people to give more money at offering time! Now, Einron, I tell you this not to put down ministers of the word of God, but the mess that mega churches here have gotten themselves into. Money, money, money that's all they teach about. Tithing teaching, although new to others is a doctrine with questionable outcomes in the hands of some men who exert a powerful influence over many. The money factors we are talking are in the millions of dollars with ZERO accountability. A minister must be accountable for what means he works in the Gospel. That is why Paul the Apostle was careful about these affairs and was so detailed in how he managed to preach and live as means of income within the ministry.

Therefore as a Pastor, I advocate cessation of the doctrine of manditory 10% giving in favour of accountability, giving based on sound bible based sowing and reaping. The Gospel is the number cause for giving. Not buildings, and Houses that are lying subsititute for the living church - which is not a building built by the hands of men but by the divine calling of the Spirit through the resurrection of Christ. Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel.

Pastor Ross


einron profile image

einron 8 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thanks again Pastor Ross.

I now feel you are talking to me as an equal.  I am quite forth-right in my speech and sometimes I regret what I said later.  May God forgive me for using undiplomatic language.

There will always be are "Judas or Judases" (can you pluralize the name?)  if there is such a word.  Once a Christian is forgiven his sins when he turns to God and is baptized, his sins are forgiven.  However, his footsteps from then onward must also walk with God.  If a baptized Christian murders someone intentionally or wilfully, would he be saved? 

King David was exonerated for killing Uriah, the husband of Bathsheba.  David did not die, but his heart died many times with so many problems from his children.  His first child with Bathsheba died.  Then his daughter was raped by her step-brother, Amnon.  Absalom murdered Amnon because of his sister.  Absalom's rebelled against David and he was forced to flee.  Nearing his death, David's son Adonijah proclaimed himself as king even though David had already promised that Solomon would be king.

Why was David so loved by God when he committed murder, adultery, falsehood and other sins?  Because David always repented and cried out to God for forgiveness.  God always forgives.  David never excused himself.

We can only pray for the weak brethren, but it is up to them to repent.  Ministers will fall because of money or women.  Everyone will be tested or tried by fire (trials, temptations) to see what the person really is.

My father was a minister for 32 years in Malaysia and 6 years in Canada.  He was a teacher in the Methodist Boys School by day and the school closed by about 2.00 pm.  He preached from Monday to Friday every night and on two sessions on Saturday.  He was like Paul who worked as a tentmaker for his own upkeep.  As Christians we can only pray for the weak ministers. 

Why did Jesus wash Judas' feet?  Because He wanted to give Judas a chance to change even until the very end. 

Under no circumstances can you "play the role" of God by changing His commandments.  That is completely taboo.  No excuse whatsoever! 

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.  For us the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:7,8).

Be smart and be like King David.  Read his psalms.  Give not excuses, just repent.


Pastor Ross 8 years ago

Dear Einron,

Well as I stated only too well, I never implied that I should attempt to bring down ministries. I decided after much prayer that where I am I should minister firstly to those who have received great harm to their faith at the hands of these ministries.

The matter for me is not found in upholding Laws implied to be effective. My understanding and where I am is the same accusation that Jesus also was told that he was doing - NOT obeying or doing away with the Laws of O.T. He was crucified for the same reasons under the religious regime that deemed to be of God.

If my calling be not keep silent then I shall not be silent but speak up where I feel to speak up. The laws of giving drew upon provision for the churches - not houses or buildings. It is clear the higher LAWs are being broken by an insistence on giving laws of 10% under present Covenant. A law of God correct under the Old Covenant but misapplied and corrupted under the New Covenant. The extortion by these ministers is enabling satan a foothold in good churches. By returning to right doctrine [teaching] the devil is not allowed a foothold.

Changing Laws and their understanding is not to be mixture of one verses the other. in so doing the Word becomes a divided book - not a unity of God's TRANSITIONAL governance and purpose from OLD to NEW Covenant. Either we are under a new covenant or we are not. We cannot say we are led by the Spirit and then go back under a numbering system of giving. We cannot even go back to temples made with human hands thinking these these are the true temple of God. There is NO place to bring the titlhes. If there is no place to bring the tithes then those tithes belong to an old waxing system annulled! The storehouses were for FOOD for the poor and the priests. We are NOW all PRIESTs to our God. Therefore to give to the Lord's work is call for PEOPLES provision FIRST of all NOT JUST for MINISTERS.

I say to you there is ONE GREAT MYTH or LIE from falsehood teachings:

The church since Jesus Christ fell in apostasy and the wisdom invested in after apostles - those that ministered in 100AD and 200AD, 300AD are to be ignored. These are ignorant men - those self proclaimed apostles of late 19th/20th and now 21 centuries who claim special divine understanding of the scriptures. The men of the real spirit of God are also ignored such as Augustine/Calvin/Luther/Knox and many other reformers and preachers who saw WHOLE nations returned to God. Even the so called apostasy claimed when the whole Viking nations (pre-Britian) and after Christ accepted Christ and became a nation of peace. That is just the tip of iceberg of the great men of God with strong faith down through ENTIRE church history.

When Jesus said I will destroy this temple in three days we know what he meant by this. The actual temple became His body and the temple of the God became the believers according to Ephesians. You lack much understanding of New Covenant verses Old Covenant. As long as the Covenant is made it remains in force but once the New and superior Covenant came the old is now waxing and aging. Galations/Hebrews. So from one transition to another we are ALL in Covenant in God under the new. Changing Laws does mean what you think. However abiding under the correct Covenant is the duty of all Christians to OBEY and believe in.

I know Hebert W Armstrong under the former Church of God. This movement was divided and weakened by the will of God eventually. Even the book you quoted is from the old movement that suffered much scandal and believers left from that movement after much repentence and reading of Galations they understood the founder to be doctrinally incorrect on many counts.

I am going to leave this forum, not out of fear or any shadow of turning from me. I wish you well and leave you are more then capable in understanding the Word sufficient for your salvation and the salvation of others. There are SHEEP of another fold right here that is sufficient for my time in the work of the Gospel. I cannot teach everyone all over the internet and share my thoughts when the needs are so great right at home.

I pray God blesses you and may you find the richness of Christ in your life much more and share that with those around you.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you,

Pastor Ross


einron profile image

einron 8 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author


einron profile image

einron 8 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thank you Pastor Ross for your good wishes! May the Lord also bless you and guide you into all truth.


Gene 8 years ago

Malechi = Old Covenant Must be Jewish to have been told this load.

New Covenant begins at the CROSS. Paul told the folk that they weren't to become Jewish or follow those laws given to the Jews. There was much opportunity for both Christ and Paul to set the guidlines for "Tithing"........but they didn't.


einron profile image

einron 8 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thanks Gene for your comments.

New Covenant:  Hebrews 8: 8-10;  Jerimiah 31:31

"I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: " 

Jesus is now the new priest, Melchisedek and we can approach God directly through Jesus, and not the priest.

In the OT, the tithes go to the priesthood, but in the new covenant, the tithes go to Jesus' House of God.  In other words, for maintaining the church.

In OT the laws of God were not written in their hearts.  Now if people have the Holy Spirit, the laws are in their hearts as a constant reminder.

Jesus in Matthew 5: 17-18 said,

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets;  I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


drpastorcarlotta profile image

drpastorcarlotta 7 years ago from BREAKOUT MINISTRIES, INC. KC

Praise God!!! I read so much here about this Hub that everything that I wanted to say, was said!!! lol, lol, lol, GREAT HUB!!!!!!!!! WOW!!


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

drpastorcarlotta

Thanks a lot for your comments! You are a great commentator! May God bless you.


mel 7 years ago

einron,

You have not given one scripture verse that commands the New Testament believer to Tithe. And reading Mr. Ross' comments it seems as if he has presented a clear cut case that Tithing is not law for today but was only for the OT. Its not about your disagreement with him on the subject matter its about Gods word says. And you are right we should not add or take away from the word so in that same vain I can say with full assurance that there is nothing in the Bible that supports Tithing as law for the NEw Testament believer. It just cannot be proven explicity with the scriptures that you presented.

Much of what you say are mere implications to support your own view..for example

1.Render unto ceasar..and unto God...but that says nothing about Tithing. First we need to discover what he was saying in the passage before coming to a doctrinal conclusion. So was he talking about TIthing? That is the first question that you should ask yourself before consluding that he is taking about Tithing. Therefore I do not understand how you can use that as a command to tithe.

2. You also say that Tithing is giving to the church or clergy. Again, where does it say this in the Bible? I have read and re-read the New Testament epistles that are given to the "church" and see nothing about tithing in order to give to the clery or church. Are you assuming that the "storehouse" in Malachi is equivelant to church building in our times that we go to on Sundays?

What exactly is God saying? What is he talking about? Thats how we need to approach God's word...not read anything that we want into it. That is how for centuries, denominations, churches, and church leaders have held people in bondage and under legalistic requirements.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I find it very interesting that it is mostly pastors and their children who advocate enforcing the Old Covenant tithe in the New Covenant. Pastor Ross, praise God is preaching the truth! He and Mel are 100% correct. Einron, you've read my hub on tithing, giving and alms. We are NOT under the Law of Moses or Rabbinic laws any longer, nor have they been "transferred" into the New Covenant in any way! We must look at the entire New Covenant and not pick and choose verses to twist around to advocate monetary laws.

You quoted John 1:17, but don't understand it? "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ."

Mark 7:13 "You are destroying the word of God through your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many other things like that."

Galatians 2:21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

The Word is clear that the Pharisees transgressed the commandment of God in honoring their father and mother (in this example) by demanding money be "given to God" and not to their parents' financial needs! Jesus rebuked them in Matthew 15:3-4 "And He answered and said to them, 'Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.' But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, 'Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,' he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition."

What? Aren't they supposed to love God FIRST and THEN take care of their parents? NO!!!

Einron, many Christians are trying to set you free from the Law to which you are entangled. It will take some time for the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ to lead you into the truth. I am thankful you are open at least to reading and listening. Galatians 4:9 “But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things [the Law], to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?”

Look at Galatians 3:10-12 "Certainly all who depend on the works of the law are under a curse. For it is written, 'A curse on everyone who does not obey everything that is written in the book of the law!' Now it is obvious that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because 'The righteous will live by faith.' But the law has nothing to do with faith..."

Keep this in mind, too ~ please:

Regarding Matthew 5:17-18 let's write these verses here, and understand that Jesus had not died on the cross yet when He spoke these words:

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but TO FULFILL THEM. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law UNTIL ALL IS ACCOMPLISHED."

Hebrews 7:28 “Moses' Teachings designated mortals as chief priests even though they had weaknesses. But God's promise, which came after Moses' Teachings, DESIGNATED THE SON WHO FOREVER ACCOMPLISHED EVERYTHING THAT GOD REQUIRED.”

Luke 24:44 “Now He said to them, 'These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms MUST BE FULFILLED."

Romans 10:4 “For Christ is THE END OF THE LAW for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 11:25, 27 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uniformed of this mystery: And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins."

Galatians 3:19 "Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator [Moses], UNTIL THE SEED [Jesus] would come to whom the promise had been made."

JESUS FULFILLED AND ACCOMPLISHED ALL THINGS. Our righteousness must surpass that of the Scribes and Pharisees (whose righteousness came by the Law). It is surpassed in Christ Jesus because we became the righteousness of God in Him! See following:

Matthew 5:20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

2 Corinthians 5:21 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

I invite you to read my hubs called "Torah: The Law of Moses", "The END of the Old Covenant" and "The JOY in the New Covenant". I pray the Holy Spirit set you free from the Law of sin and death and enlighten you to the glorious gospel of salvation by grace through Jesus Christ alone! To go back to the Law means you will be judged by the Law! If you live according to the Old Covenant, you nullify the New Covenant and have no Savior (for Christ's grace is nullified when you do this, according to Galatians 2:21).

We are all trying to share this gospel with you, to set you free, sister einron. Prayerfully, JD

P.S. The passage in Revelation about adding to or taking away from "this book" applies to the Book of Revelation only! Believe it or not. Enoch and Jasher were removed from the Bible by the Nicene Council ~~ are they cursed now? I don't think so.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Mel

YOU WROTE:

I can say with full assurance that there is nothing in the Bible that supports Tithing as law for the NEw Testament believer. It just cannot be proven explicity with the scriptures that you presented.

ANSWER:

Jesus said in Matthew 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus did not change any law of God.

Tithing was continued during the NT, but neither our Saviour, nor His apostles have commanded any thing regarding tithes explicitly. He did point to tithing in His address about the Pharisees on tithing.

Jesus Christ is a priest after the order of Melchisedek replacing the sons of Levi. In Hebrews 7:5, it states that

"the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithe of the people according to the law ..."

In the NT, the disciples gave up everything for God, their homes, their goods. How many would do this?

Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42

... for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weighter matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: THESE OUGHT YE TO HAVE DONE, AND NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER (TITHES) UNDONE.

YOU WROTE:

You also say that Tithing is giving to the church or clergy. Again, where does it say this in the Bible?

ANSWER:

In our present age, the clergy and church take the place of the priests and Levites who lead the congregation.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

einron, you said, "Jesus did not change any law of God." The Law of God is the 10 Commandments. The Takanot is the Rabbinic Law added to the Law of Moses (Torah) and have indeed been CHANGED because of the change in priesthood. Please notice this scripture: "For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of Law also."

Hebrews 7:11-19

"Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

"For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of Law also.

"For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.

"For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests."

Remember, to embrace the Old Covenant nullifies the New Covenant! The Bible says so!! (see my comments above) May God's grace enable you to "see" with His eyes. Bless you!!


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

YOU WROTE:

Einron, many Christians are trying to set you free from the Law to which you are entangled. It will take some time for the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ to lead you into the truth.

ANSWER:

Only God can set me free and no one else. However, I thank you and the other Christians who are trying to help me. Dont try to help, but pray for me, you and the rest for the love of Christ. I am thankful for your concern.

Read my latest hub on THE HOLY SPIRIT: MOST PRECIOUS GIFT OF GOD.

Read what I wrote to Mel.

Go over my hubs on THE OLD AND NEW COVENANTS and GOD'S LAWS AND MAN'S LAWS.

I have read some of your hubs and do not always agree with the contents, but I hesitate to make comments for I know you discard what does not agree with your thinking. I would not like to waste my time writing when the comments are discarded.

God bless you for your concern.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Yes, sweet sister ~ I have read what you wrote to Mel and Pastor Ross. We three are in agreement. You are correct that only God can set all of us free. We are but vessels who speak what the Holy Spirit lays on our hearts. We labor first for our brethren, then for the world. God's Word is RIGHT, which is the root word of RIGHTEOUS. Righteousness does not come through the Law, for we know the Word says this. I love you so much, and what I do know is that whatever we write as children of His ~ only that which is truth and of God will not return void. Praise God that if we err, it will return void, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ! God be with you and bless you ~ all of us.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

I understand about the OLD COVENANT and the NEW COVENANT. Please read my hub on that.

Please explain what it means that Jesus said about tithes

in Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42

... for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weighter matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: THESE OUGHT YE TO HAVE DONE, AND NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER (TITHES) UNDONE.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Jesus kept Jewish Law until He died and admonished the Jews who kept Jewish Law. Upon His death, Jesus fulfilled the Jewish Law (Old Covenant), set us free from it and sealed us into the New Covenant in His shed blood. I pray you will receive this truth. I've explained it six comments up from this one :-)


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

Here Jesus is addressing "tithing" and to me, it means He said you should do it as well. There is no verse referring to the abolishment of tithes, either by Jesus or the apostles, and that is sufficient for me to continue giving.

As priest of Melchisedek, Jesus is entitled to tithes and the collection goes towards the upkeep of the church and clergy. Our church also provides free lunches every Sabbath Day, free trips to the zoo for the children, Black Creek Pioneer Village, subsidized fees for trips for Bible Seminars to US and across Canada. There are no needy people in the church that I can think of and collections are made for disaster areas of the church in the world, and also building projects across the nations.

Tithing is not a burden at all if you love God and you wish to return some of what the Lord gives us. In Malachi, He promises us blessings and He has kept His promises regarding tithes.

In our church, there is no written law about tithes. It is hard to monitor paying of tithes for the church does not have the right to demand how much pay cheque each member receives. Many, I am sure pay more than tithes toward the upkeep of the church.

Most would not know how much to pay back what God has given to us in His generosity. To those who love God, paying tithes is no burden at all. Anyway, what you receive is from the Lord, and you are only returning one-tenth of what you receive, and you get to spend nine-tenths. Who can be more generous than God?

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

The word "tithe" and the 10% payment is part of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant of giving is what we live by since the death of Jesus. Jesus upheld the Torah until He died, fulfilling it ~ every dot and tittle of it. I'm not advocating we not provide for the needs of our clergy and others, for this we do cheerfully under the New Covenant; it's just that it is not a LAW of God. I've stated everything I can say in all my comments, some of which I don't think you really understood or received, but that's okay ~ it's a work of the Spirit. God bless you.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

I do know those who feel it's right to give tithes as the benchmark of giving like Abraham. However, others also believe in tithes, but give beyond the tithes. How do you classify such people?

Neither Jesus nor His disciples in the NT said anything about tithes.

Jesus said to the rich young men. Give your all and follow me. In the present, if Christians do not give their all and follow Jesus, are they saved?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

You are correct; Jesus nor His disciples in the NT said anything about "tithes". In the case of the wealthy Jewish man ~ he told Jesus he had kept ALL the 10 Commandments and wondered what he still lacked (to be righteous). Jesus knew his heart and thus "tested" him by telling him to give all he had to the poor and follow Christ. The man finally realized he wasn't righteous by keeping the Law, for his heart was in his wealth. This is why he walked away sadly.

God loves a cheerful giver. We should desire to give as much as we can to help others, especially those in ministry for the Lord (our church, missionaries, etc.) ~ the New Testament uses the word "prove" or "proof" of love through giving.

So, the New Covenant is summed up in this: the HEART. If God is the God of our heart above all things, He knows it and so do others ~ because of the fruit of the Spirit and joyful giving (in many ways ~ money, time, skills, prayer, volunteering, etc.)

God bless you and have a Happy Thanksgiving!


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 7 years ago from HubPages, FB

Pastor Ross. Tithes are definitely not curse of the Law. Any giving is blessing and not curse. I tithe but not for purpose keeping the Law. Every farmer put aside for seed about 10%. I do not think it is curse when he planted. If someone make the rules it is different. But say we give but not tithe is the rule by itself. Before I tithed I really gave very little. But blessing showed me put first to the Lord is best.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

YOU WROTE:

We should desire to give as much as we can to help others, especially those in ministry for the Lord (our church, missionaries, etc.) ~ the New Testament uses the word "prove" or "proof" of love through giving.

ANSWER:

Some people are misers and feel what they give is sufficient.

I posed the question, but you have not really answered the question.

"Jesus said to the rich young men. Give your all and follow me. If Christians do not give their all and follow Jesus, are they saved?" They are disobeying JESUS' INSTRUCTION.

I doubt many would give their "ALL" except the "priests and nuns." What proportion are the priests and nuns against the whole population of Christians in the world?

Are the rest of the people not saved in the New Testament?

Dont you think that Jesus and the Apostles did not say anything about discarding the giving of TITHES because IT IS MEANT TO BE CONTINUED?

Read what Uhri said about tithes.

God bless.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Vladmir Uhri

Thanks very much for your comments. God has blessed you because of tithes. Praise the Lord for He has fulfilled the promise in Malachi 3:10! You are blessed because you followed the footsteps of Abraham. He was not told about tithing, but he did out of his own free will.

Our church did not tell us to tithe, but when the family came over to Canada and America, we faithfully contributed and we lacked nothing. God has continued to bless us for being faithful.

It was not a law that we followed, but an example of Abraham's love for God. As Abraham's grafted people, we see the benefits of God's grace.

May the Lord continue to bless His children!


einron profile image

einron 6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Nick Vince

Thanks for the comments! Peace!


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 5 years ago from BC, canada

I believe Gods people tithe 10% or more.

When abraham gave Melchizedek tithes of all, this was 400 yrs Before the Law was introduced. The tribe of Levi was not even born back in Genesis time.

Therefore i have concluded that tithing is a matter NOT of Law but of Love.

If we love the house of God we will surely place 10% (since 10% is a bible guideline) If we love God, we can trust him with 10% of our earnings that we not be poverty stricken because of it.

Also... giving 10% directs our faith in God... toward God. The tithe is a good indicator of our faith and a crucifier of our flesh and i believe part of bearing our cross.

Good hub einron.

Keep it goin on bro!


einron profile image

einron 5 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

brotheryochanan

Thanks! Give your tithes or give your all, if you wish to follow the Bible.


Debradoo profile image

Debradoo 5 years ago from Cocoa, Florida

It seems to be that God consecrates and sanctifies anything that is of Him. Tithing consecrates and sanctifies our money and all that the money buys. In other words, the tithe, brings blessings on whatever comes AFTER the tithe .. EG the 90% left from the tithe, our belongings (homes, cars, furniture, clothes, food), etc. Our offerings come AFTER the tithe and this begins to bless us in giving. Very much like firstfruits.

I love how you make it plain that tithing is NOT a burden to those of us that practice tithing. We tithe because we love God. Just as we do ANYTHING He so commands .. Out of love and honor for Him. Tithing is of faith. Just as Abraham knew that the blood money he had must be blessed first, so he gave (and noticed God SENT Him someone to receive the tithe) 10% to remove the curse that might be attached to those spoils. We, also knowing the curse desires to attach itself to anything not claimed by God, we faithfully tithe and keep the blessings flowing over our 'things'.

It saddens me to see that those who refuse to tithe and scream 'OLD LAWS AND BONDAGE!' to support their argument ... Fail to see the beauty and joys of tithing. Thank you Einron!


einron profile image

einron 5 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Debradoo

I love what you wrote.

"Tithing consecrates and sanctifies our money and all that the money buys. In other words, the tithe, brings blessings on whatever comes AFTER the tithe."

Those who love God just obeys what He says and do not question Him.

Blessings to you.


Honorablewoman profile image

Honorablewoman 5 years ago from Georgia

One word to describe you and what I have read from you so far, AMAZING! Thanks for the Knowledge!


einron profile image

einron 5 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Honourablewoman

Thanks very for the compliments. God is true and His words are amazing. Peace and blessings.


Brennan 4 years ago

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it sounded like you disagreed with the word "Trinity" because it is literally defined as "3 Devine persons". Perhaps it's not meant to be degrading to God the Father or God the Holy Spirit (as obviously they are not human) but to mean "3 Devine beings". In other words, 3 Devine Gods that exist as One.


einron profile image

einron 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Brennan

Trinity is not a word used in the Bible. I do disagree with using the word of three divine beings.

See GOD'S MANIFESTATIONS: THE HOLY SPIRIT AND JESUS CHRIST

I hope you will find the answer clearer.


Lance 4 years ago

Inteeresting, I am in full support with Pastor Ross! Too many Christians get tired up with the number 10% to point that that giving is meaningless. We should give of our hearts and what God tells us not because scripture that tell us you have to give 10%. If you are told to give so much...it isn't really giving. This whole 10% and if you don't give you are cursed or robbing God is a why many church and some Christians manipulate the scriptures to force people to give!

Sometimes is so bad that christians bounce cheques and go into debt because of it...which also isn't very christian as well. For me, this is my case with my wife she rather bounce cheques and being debt to give he 10%.

There is something really wrong here if you have to force people to give and tell them they have to give so much...how to do think Pastor on TV like Binn Hinn become rich...they tell people if you don't give you are cursed or robbing God! How you are robbing God if it is all his to begin with. You can give me scripture after scripture supporting the 10% rule, but you must know that it isn't a commandment and Jesue didn't not give away 10% at all. So, it really comes down what is your heart and God doesn't really need the money he wants our hearts.

In the case of giving to get something back from God like the whole prosperity theology isn't giving because it no longer becomes of your heart, but just a selfish act of getting something back from God...which isn't the point of giving!

I am not a pastor, but I am some Joe who has had many experiences with Christians and Churches who are very manipulative and abusive when it comes to robbing hard working people of their money based on the 10% theology.

If Christians and Churches have the ssme beleive in 10% theology they need to have their focus on Christ and not the money and have faith that the money will come, and not to stop telling people how to give away their money!


einron profile image

einron 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Lance

You disagree with the hub. That is your choice! We agree to disagree.


saira sardar 4 years ago

my dear brother or sister.

first of all reieve my best regards and compliments in the name of greatest jesus christ after on it is stated andi am telling you that i am a reglious teacher i am giving free study to the labourer children and to the uneducated womens i am giving the study of pious bible and teach them regullarly because there is a burden of god in my heart i teach the grieved and poor womens and giving them the light of education i trust the god when such lights are appering then every mankind is becomming full of trust on god the women who are coming before me for the same motto they are such poor and helpless womens these are those children who cannot afford the expenses of school and their parents are quite unable to admit them in the school beyond their great powerty also they cannot provide them the ''meal'' for two times being uneducated they cannot find a simple government service being quite ignorants they not they cannot pull on without any service i am teaching these womens and childrens at my own residential house i have no my own property i am living in a rented house i am teaching the helpless womens and minor childrens of 45 families the timing of teaching in the morning 4 pm.to 7.pm.some of minor children i am teaching in the morning times and those boys who are working i am teaching them after morning but all of them are helpless and poor i humbly request you to be very kind enough to think over these all problemsand do some thing for them the program of ration which you have arranged, kindly also remember these helpless peoples. they are rightful peoples for help. i am just telling youabout my

maternal uncle, who was performing the services of ''pastor'' 5 years before joinlty working with me but after his sudden death now his son and daughter in law both of them are performing the service of poor and helpless people if some one assist me i am sure to open a school for children and also a centre for helpless womens also with grading up the work of church i believe to god that you must think over these problems and also help me for the sake of god may god please you and give you the strength to help the poor. i need your help. god bless you.


einron profile image

einron 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thank you for your comments and good work. Ask the Lord to send you help in your need. Amen.


God's Love Evangelistic Church 4 years ago

REQUEST FOR FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TOWARDS THE RENOVATION OUR CHURCH BUILDING AND ENVIRONMENT

We are constrained to seek for your financial support towards the renovation of our church building which was bombed by God's enemy in Nigeria by some enemy of God called BOKO HARAM in Nigeria. You can search for the treat on google to confirm. We wish to finance ourselves but due to lack of enough fund raised by the church members, we are dragged to the wall, and compelled to reach out to you for help.

The building has been completed since some years ago in Nigeria but don't know the plans of those enemies of God towards the church... In fact, many lives and properties like cars and all the musical instruments and many other things were lost but all glory be to the Lord our God and we are planning to reach the families of the victims with enough cash and prayers.

Remember:

Luke 6:38

Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

1 John 3:17

But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

Consequent upon the above analysis, we would indeed appreciate your urgent full support and approval of our request.

In case you want to help the work of God, Please kindly send any amount through Western Union and inbox us with the :

Sender's name,

Sender's full address,

MTCN No:10 digits. and other things you thing will be useful

May the Lord Jesus enrich your pocket, thank you and remain blessed you in Jesus name (AMEN).

you can reach us through our email address god.church@rocketmail.com

Thanks and God bless in Jesus name (AMEN)


einron profile image

einron 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

God's Love Evangelistic Church

May God send you the help you need. My work is to write and not collecting for charity. May God heed your prayer.


Angels with Faith Ministries 501c3 non-profit char 3 years ago

When leaving your estate,donating Real Estate,property,land,vehicles,Rvs,Boats to charity ask that charity what percent of your donation will actually go toward helping those in need,you may be surprised.On average less than 20% of every donation to large charities & an average of 10% of donations to the with causes charities actually goes to helping those in need,the rest goes to pay salaries,overhead,admisnitrative costs,rent for fancy storefronts etc..

5 years ago we wanted to start a REAL charity that gives 100% of every donation goes directly to helping those in need,we help 1000s of families & people every year & 1000s of children every Christmas with 0 funding like those big charities receive,we are all volunteers & are a home based Charity/Church, we do all of our own website,promotional worl,advertising etc on free sites so that not a cent of donations ever goes to costs.Our belief is that when someone makes a donation to a charity they expect & want that donation to go directly toward helping those in true need.we will even disclose to the donor,upon request,exactly who,where & how their donation went & helped


einron profile image

einron 3 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

We hope that 100% of charities donated goes directly to those in need, but I suppose that some would be directed to operational cost.

We do not have advertising costs as such. We directly appeal to the congregation and what is collected is sent directly.


Jim Grattan 3 years ago

In the article on tithing, I found a typo. Levi was the son of Jacob (Israel), not of Abraham (who was the grandfather of Levi). Hope this helps.


einron profile image

einron 3 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Jim Grattan

Thanks very much for letting me know of the mistake. I am grateful that you have spotted the mistake. All mistakes must be corrected.


AL 9 months ago

Tithes are crop and animal offerings given to the Levits at the Temple of Jerusalem, why should it be given to you ?


einron profile image

einron 9 months ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

In this century, not many people grow crops or have animal offerings and there are no Levites in the Christian churches. So, what do the churches give to their pastors who do not earn money to upkeep their families?


mahuta 8 months ago

God don't need your money complaining, he only need your heart to do his will for the growing of his church on earth since the old testament until he appear again in Jesus time after 400 years of silence after Mal 3:8-10. Why ? because people is not doing what God has said, and not in having a true faith, they only believe in things they see with their eyes as Thomas. If we say that a true christian is to live with out the law, it seem to me that we putting Jesus in that he abolished the law, no HE saidBible i didn't come to demolished the law, but to fulfilled it. BIBLE COMES WITH TWO TESTAMENT TO CHRISTIANS, NOT ONE TESTAMENT. I total disagree these comment that pastors forcing the members to give their tithe, absolute not, IT IS God's talking to your hearts as a believer to DO his will for the sake of his gospel. weather you like it not, it's your own choice, but don't put your own thinking to those who have saved of obeying GOD"S VOICE, what you doing is making them like Satan betrayed of disobeying God voice like Eve and Adam. My church financial is running by the members, to put everything in the right path. Is not the Pastor using the money, only by the members to support the growing of the church, not of the pastor, he only have a portion of the money to support his family and his ministry. thanks


einron profile image

einron 8 months ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thanks for the comments!


einron profile image

einron 7 months ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

mahula

Whether you agree or not, it is your prerogative! Laws of God are not abolished, but the laws made by man. Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14 are ceremonial laws made by man.

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