labling other religions "Cult"

The inconsistency of definitions and interpretations which defile the English language is what truly makes us stand out from all other generations. Just watch how the word becomes transformed over the duration of this article. Starting with the dictionary definition of a word like cult. Here's the ever popular Websters version:

1a. a system of religious worship or ritual 1b. a quasi-religious group, often living in a colony, with a charismatic leader who indoctrinates members with unorthodox or extremist views, practices or beliefs 2a. devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle or lifestyle, especially when regarded as a fad (the cult of nudism) 2b. the object of such attachment 3. a group of followers, sect

The first part seems to be pretty cut and dry, not to mention all encompassing to just about any religious organization, but lets keep the focus specifically on the followers of Christ for a moment. By interpretation I take note that a cult is first and foremost being defined as a system of religious worship or ritual; but then follows into that unorthodox practice of living in a separate colony, having extremest views, and following a charismatic leader.

I still see allot of christian religions falling into this category. How often on the airwaves do we see mainstream religions riveted to a hard hitting Evangelist who draws the attention of the masses with powerful and thought provoking messages.

I think it is evident that in Christian dominated American socioty, there is a hard left and a hard right point of view; One (such as myself) might see these points of view asExtremest in nature. Concerning the issues of the day the topics of discussion require an answer and at times leave little room for grey areas; IE. Abortion, marriage, the death penalty, war..... People become compelled to take a stance and choose a side, and often times the side they take is based on a religious preference.

the distortion

While perusing the ever modernized wikipedia definition of "Cult" I found this somewhat disturbing entry;

"Since at least the 1940s, the approach of orthodox, conservative, or fundamentalist Christians was to apply the meaning of cult such that it included those religious groups who used (possibly exclusively) non-standard translations of the Bible, put additional revelation on a similar or higher level than the Bible, or had beliefs and/or practices that were not held by current, mainstream Christianity." -cult wiki.

I view this as a direct and deliberate attempt of demoralization, aimed directly at my church, and it crept it's way into one of the most popular resources on the Internet. Nothing saddens me more than to see churches rising up against each other, to discredit, demonize, and sensationalize, all in hopes to point people in the "Right" direction.

More specifically, conservative Christian authors, especially fundamentalists and Evangelical Protestants, narrowly define a Christian cult as a group who claims their beliefs conform to Christianity, yet factually deviate from Christian "fundamental beliefs."

This mind set, although conceived for the purpose of preserving their religious values, is one of the largest causes for hatred amongst Christians, It throws honest truth seekers into the pile with suicidal, separatists, and Satanists. They want you to see any church which does not fall within their standards as brain washers, and with their leaders equated to infamous characters such as Jim Jones, Alister Crowley, Charles Manson, or David Koresh.

So what is the current definition of a cult? I believe that it is held in the public eye that they are separatists, they block themselves outside of society and attain a paranoid view of the rest of the world, They are founded by eloquent speakers who dupe the gullible into prospects of enlightenment. they use brain washing tactics to get their followers to conform to their ideology and sometimes commit murder or suicide.

The rising of these particular organizations is random at best, they are easily distinguishable for those who govern themselves by the laws of common sense. Unfortunately we live in a society full of uncertainty, people rely on vices and addiction; self esteem is low for those who compare themselves to movie stars, and super skinny super models. They are those who simply wish to fit in, and feel the need to be part of something. They are people just like everyone else, they are part of the children of God who have gone astray.

When a church goes on the offensive towards other religions they indoctrinate this "Defending the faith" attitude which puts a stain on their entire format, they don't focus on their own beliefs, instead they spend their time criticizing others, they devote entire classes to it. people commit to hours of scholarly research in a degrading attempt to debunk other belief systems when they should be focused on their own salvation.

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Comments 74 comments

James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 7 years ago from Chicago

You give a fine definition of a cult.  I certainly do not see the LDS as a cult, nor do I know any Christians who do. 

This is some disapproval of the LDS doctrinal positions within some Christian circles that I heard when I hosted at my place of business Mitt Romney for a campaign rally during the Florida primaries.  I invited a lot of people, including many prominent Christians and most of them came, too.  The problems seem centered around your book, your garments and this praying for the dead stuff.  On the other hand, most of my friends aren't much on praying to the dead, worshiping Mary and ritualism either but we do not consider Catholics a cult.  Mostly, we love everybody, including LDS.  My dentist is a member, with 8 kids, of course (and God bless y'all for that), and he is a wonderful man.  In fact, I have never met a Mormon who was not a fine person—and that speaks volumes.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Thanks for posting James, I know that most of the population doesn't view us as a cult, and I certainly don't want people to think that I am lumping all Protestants into the same category. I know plenty of people who believe other versions of Christianity than myself that don't subscribe to that sentiment. Though I see a lot on the net, I have come across dozens of sights dedicated to tearing us down and you can't have a decent conversation with most of them.


eovery profile image

eovery 7 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa

Onusonus,

Some try to make the definition of a cult to be any church which did not, or could not claim the authority through the Pope back to Peter.  So with this, they claimed a lot of churches to be cults.

Your definition is the best I have seen, yet.

Keep on Hubbing, my friend.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

the test of faith and endurance is the character of a true believer; this coruption must put on incoruption; this cat picture is realy freaking me out!


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Good hub Onusonus, Thanks James for your comments, always insightful.But let me say as a Catholic, we do not worship Mary, she is given a place of honor in our church as the mother of Jesus.

The Shark


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Thanks for posting Shark, always a pleasure.

I would never refer to the Catholic church as a cult despite our religious differences. In fact I believe there is a certain aspect about the gospel which our two churches uniquely understand. Check out this quote from a Catholic priest;

"You Mormons are all ignoramuses (Dang, harsh). You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there was no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the Gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the Gospel in latter days."


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Hi Onusonus, great reply!! I agree, I think we get bogged down in Earthly things abour religion. If we are Christians we believe in Christ period. I don't think Christ is going to say on the final day that this one wore the wrong garment when honoring God, or this one didn't sing the right song. As for the Apostolic connection you are correct, a few years ago the Vatican announced that they had found Peter's crypt in a deep archieological dig under the Vatican. This past week they announced the finding of Paul's crypt.

You have to give it to Peter, he took the mission Christ gave him to build his church right to the fire. He built on Vatican Hill in Rome, in the Romans face, the very people who allowed Christ to be crucified.

Great hub I enjoyed it and will be interested to follow the comments. You might consider posing a question in the forum section about this and get a thread going. I don't know if there is a way to link your hub to the question. I am not that proficient on the hub thing yet.

The Shark


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

That is interesting that they found those tombs, I think that we should never be affraid to unearth hidden treasures of knowledge which link us to our past.

As for posting in the forums, I think the topic might stir up things which might lead to the sour end of the spectrum.

The Onus, laying low for self preservation.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

I have to laugh because you are probably correct. People get all worked up over religion. Just look at what I stir up in the political forums and my hubs on political issues, never mind trying religion. The libs try to make all of their points on emotins, instead of facts. So in the end I guess the hubs are the best place for this. But keep up the good work, I enjoy the your hubs. Correct about history too, the libs are constanly trying to re-write history. Just look at what they attempted at the Enola Gay exhibit at the Smitsonian on the 60th anniversary.

The Shark---have a great weekend


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Politically it is important to be factualy based, in the arena of religion however emotions help to build faith. I didn't hear about the Enola Gay exhibit, did they shut it down?


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

yes, the Enola Gay was under restoration and they sent the fuselage to be dispalyed at the Smithsonian along with an iterpertation of the bombing of Hiroshima. Well let's face it, most museums are run by pin head liberals. In this case American hating pin head liberals. The display showed America as an agressor and that America bombed the "innocent" Japanese.

Ok, how about Pear, how about the Battan death march, the list of atrtocities against American pow's is endless.

Not to mention the estimate given Truman was approx. 100,000 American casualties if we invaded Japan, and the war would probably drag on for another year.(but what the heck--they're only Americans)

So, along with Senator Dole and WWII veterans of the American legion the fight began to have the Smith. change the display and show the facts. The old guys showed they still had the fighting spirit to take on one more adversay of America...

Well the argument ensued, the Smithsonian refused to change the display istead agreeing to take it down all together.

Another stand up organization for America funded by the tax payers.

The Shark


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Interesting, Well we had better take the holocaust out of the history books too since it offends a small group of people.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

That's what Iran would vote to do. Unfortunately history in govt schools does all it can to down play American greatness. How does an assignment on how freedom holds you back---no fooling a real assignment.

The Shark


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Now there's a good question for the forums. I say you better run with it before I do. He He He.......


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

I plan on doing something with it as part of a hub on schools.

Is that you in the picture?

Shark


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

I didn't know sharks swim in schools.

yeah that's me with my trusty M-4 Carbine, sweating it out in the winter time, wartoarn, desert of white sands New Mexico, Ha! Field ops; miserable.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

well in the words of President Bush: "I want to thank you for your service to the country."

My younger brother did 4 years in the Corp, and my other younger brother did 8 in USAF.

Are you still active?

Shark


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

No way, I hated the Army. I'm glad I did it, but it wasn't a lifestyle worth persuing, for myself. Now I work for the Navy as a civil service, maintenance guru.

How bout you, what do you do?


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

I am an Insurance Shark. Principal of an agency in NH.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Any faith that believes and receives in their hearts that Jesus is God who came in the flesh and died on the cross as the sacrifice for our sins, was raised from the dead, and thus receives the Holy Spirit is of God. All the other stuff, whether you are of Peter or Joseph Smith doesn't matter. We have one mediator between God and Man and that is Jesus Christ.

I certainly hope Catholics understand that the ROCK upon which the church was built was the Chief Cornerstone (Jesus), not the pebble rock of Peter. Their exchanged words were words of faith in who Jesus is and who Peter is. Peter was not only used by Satan and rebuked by Jesus, he denied Christ three times and indeed was crucified on an upside-down cross. He is hardly saint enough to build a church upon, in my most honest opinion.

God only has one bride and it is built on the Rock of Faith in Him. Amen.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Well Daughter, that is your opinion, and the opinion of the evangelist movement. They need that definition to explain why they are not members of the church founded by Peter.

Which frankly I don't care, I think people should belong to the church they want to. But I also don't think we should blurr the lines.

The Catholic church is apostilic. Peter foundeded it and took the chuch right into the lion's den. The Romans had crucified Jesus, and Peter went to Rome and built on Vatican Hill. In the the 2000 years that followed his sucessors have continued to ordain bishops who ordain priests, thereby keeping an unbroken chain from every priest all the way back to Peter.

In a very recent archieolgical dig under the vatican Paul's crypt has been discovered. This has been verified by the artifacts found with the burial and carbon dating. A few years ago Peter's crypt was also discovered under the Vatican.

So you may not want to be catholic, but the irrefutable facts continue to bear out that the Catholic church was the church founded by Peter, and that all others

were formed later by splinter groups.

Such as the Protestant reforamtion around 1517. The evangelical church was founded here in the states in 1905 at the Azusa meetings and led by Parnahm and Seymor between Kansas and LA.

So you can debate what Jesus meant if it satisfies your need, but Peter didn't seen to think there was any hidden meaning or code in Jesus's words, and he went founded the catholic church.

The Shark---let's not re-write history


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

The Shark,

So they found Peter's body? Guess what? They never found our Lord's body!! Does that mean we don't build our church on faith in Him? I really am not trying to be sarcastic, just forthright.

It's interesting that Peter only wrote two of the 27 books of the New Testament (the New Covenant in His blood). Why aren't we all "Paulines", since Paul wrote thirteen of the 27 epistles.

The church is not founded on any one apostle. Even the New Heaven is said to have twelve foundation stones, with Christ being the chief corner stone. I believe Catholicism is a church, but not "the Church". Even Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ Jesus. Messianic Jews still have a "culture", and so does the Catholic church. All of us in Christ are ONE BODY, HIS BRIDE. Amen.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Well therein lies the big problem; which church is the one true church. Of course the answer always has been and always will be; "Mine!" said this guy, and "no it's Mine!" said the other. debate if you will but let's toss the animosity aside for the sake of spiritual growth.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

remember what James said; how great a forest a little fire can burn, and so is the tongue of fire among us. it defiles the whole body, it is set on the fire of hell. It is an unruly evil full of deadly poison.

Therewith bless we God even the father, and therewith curse we men which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceds blessing and cursing. My brethren these things ought not so to be."


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Daughter, no need to be defensive, I said it makes no difference what branch you follow if you are Chrstian. I don't think that on the final day Christ will say, well you wore the wrong kind of clothes or sang the wrong songs etc. As long as you were a believer and follwed his doctrine, that is what counts.

My only point was historical accuracy, as Peter found this church and along the way some have broken off and found a new sect---it doesn't make them better or worse ---they all honor Christ--that's what counts.

It makes no differences how many gospels Peter wrote as opposed to Paul, Peter was still the founder.

To adress your question about finding Christ's body---well if you are a Christian you know he rose from the dead on the third day---hence no body to find.

I am Catholic, my wife is Evangelical--so we both honor Christ just a different service.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

judah's daughter;

You seem to share alot of the same views about religion as I do; I go to church and listen to sermons and talks based on scritpure, I believe that Christ is the Son of God and is the only name under heaven by which men are saved, he suffered in Gethsemanie and died on the cross as a vicarious sacrifice for all of mankind. I believe in repentance, prayer, and the emulation of all other Christlike attributes. I believe in every parable which was spoken by the savior.

Most of all I believe that God will not condemn anybody for honestly, faithfully, and diligently seeking out the truth.

you might have guessed that this hub was inspired by a cretain list I saw, which creates an exclusive spectrum for what a few believe to be "True Christianity." and I'll be honest, I think it needs to find a spot in the round file.

here it is;

1. THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH: They deny the divinity of Christ and exalt man's divinity.

2. They distort the scriptures, leading to their destruction. The antichrist is said to "go to destruction" (Rev 17:11)

3. They prey on innocent minds (those who are not learned in the scriptures).

4. They have ONE leader that founded their doctrine; some even say an angel appeared to their leader to give him the "right interpretation" of the Bible.

5. This ONE leader’s interpretation of scripture is typically published in a book or books.

6. They are focused on works and/or rituals in order to "earn their way" into God's favor, or pay Him back for saving them.

7. They consider the 144,000 elect of their particular doctrine or church.

8. They don’t associate with those outside of their church’s beliefs and practices.

9. Their church demands money from them.

Now it seems to me that this standard Evangelical twist on the definition of a cult is directly and deliberately pointed at Mormons and possibly Jehovas Witnesses.

What you are doing here is demonizing, presumptous, exclusionary, Un-Christian, and flat out wrong.

Now please take note that I am not condemning you, I don't cast people to hell for disagreeing with me or my religion. It states in our thirteen articles of faith;

"we claim the priviledge of worshiping almighty God according to the dicataes of our own consience, and allow all men the same priviledge, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

This list however is based on lies and fundamentalist assumptions about my church and the gosple which some people of the Evangelical movement have erroniously attempted to apply to the LDS faith.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Actually, I've conversed with now three LDS here. I wasn't pointing a finger at LDS because I don't know enough about the comparisons of the Book of Mormon with the Bible.

My understanding is LDS has the foundational beliefs in God according to what the scripture states are the signs of true or false. They believe Jesus is God in the flesh, that He died for our sins and rose from the dead, amen.

There is another "faith" out there that follows L. Ray Smith of bibletruths.com. I have hubs on my site that deal specifically with them. So, please forgive me if you felt I was pointing a finger at LDS. If the Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible, you are the children of God.

Because of the angel(s) that appeared to Joseph Smith, I would have to test it thoroughly because of Galatians 1:8 "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!"

As I told another LDS, if I were to consider Mormonism as a church, I would thoroughly compare the Book of Mormon with the Bible, as the Bible does not contradict itself, and any "newer" prophesy of God would also not contradict it. God bless you.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

If you don't mind me asking, which ones of those ten things apply to Mormonism? You should know we don't have to pay God back for what He did for us, because as with the parable of the debtor who was forgiven his debt completely, he was not asked to pay it back, except when he then went after someone who owed him! Faith brings about good works, the works of the Holy Spirit. We are to continue the good works of our Lord for the benefit of the gospel, to bring people to Christ. Amen :-)


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Ok, let me first say that I have seen your communications with Nana and Timothy and the others in the forums, and you usually speak to fhem with conviction and respect, so I don't think you are a bad person. It is good to be grounded in your beliefs without having to compromise.

And I too think that the words of L Ray are like the sound of tinkling brass and symbolism, due impart of the lack of spirit and the fruits which he produces.

Still it is important to remember how the Savior treated his Apostles who prevented a man from casting out devils, the same likewise should be applied to doctrinal differences among the various Christian faiths. (This you probably already know.)

I'll talk about the list with you after I get back from fixing Submarines. Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I'm glad you have confirmed that I speak the truth to you. God bless.

While L. Ray Smith teaches that Jesus is God, he distorts the scriptures grossly to the detriment of the salvation of his followers. On the other hand, Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God. So cults go all over the board. That's the point of my hub on cults. We share the same passion to address this issue.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Hey onusonus, now you are doing God's work---keeping the US Navy working. I love their ad with the aircraft carrier and the words: "life, liberty and the pursuit of all those that threaten it."

Go Navy

The Shark


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Carrie, Cult is such an ugly word. If you can believe that there is a seperation between Catholics who are Christians, and Protestants who are Christians, then perhaps it can be safe to call others who do not fall into these two categories Chirstians.

After all I still believe that you and Shark are Christian even though you aren't Mormons!


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Shark,

working for the Navy is fun, although you would never catch me going out to sea in a boat that is designed to sink!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I agree! Jesus clarifies how we are to "test the spirits", which can be angels or prophets. Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (God in the flesh) is from God. Cults pull people away from Christ. Christians pull people toward the Lord, like a fisherman pulls in his catch! We are now fishers of men, amen!

Hey Shark, maybe you can confirm this, but I understand a large percentage of Jehovah's Witnesses came from the Catholic church. I was told by one who left the Catholic church, was a memeber of the JW, who then got out, that it's because the Catholic church did not encourage people to read the Bible for themselves? So along comes the JW's to "help them study"...(she was excommunicated from the JW's due to a divorce and told she was "vomit in God's mouth").

God bless you both.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Ok Daughter, this is why I don't get involved with religious discussions.

Why would the Catholic Chruch discourage reading the Bible---which the faith is built on. We have three Bible readings at every service, two old testament and one new, which the homily is then based on.

Every pew in a Catholic church is filled with 3 books, the misselet to follow that days service with the readings, a song book to have the lyrics to the songs at service and the Bible. Many people come to service early to sit and read the Bible before service begins.

I have about five Bibles in my home, from my library to my bedroom.

As for the makeup of the Jevohas Witness Church, I have no idea.

I know that people of all faith go church shopping when they find something they don't agree with in their church. That would be the defenition of no faith.

If you have faith then you don't treat your chuch like a cafeteria where you pick and choose what you like to believe in and discard the rest, you live by and follow the doctrine.

Who knows if the minister at JW really said that. I've learned in life that unless you were there and heard something said, or it is on tape,(unedited), then I can't comment.

Look at the mess Obama caused himself by calling the Camb MA police oficer stupid after admitting he didn't have all the facts. Now the 911 tapes are out and we hear a completely different story from the Professor who claimed this was a racial profile case.

The 911 tapes have the woman reporting someone breaking into a home on a street that has had several breakins. She simply said I saw two men push the door open with their shoulder. Never once did she mention the race of the people. The 911 person asked for a description and she said two gentlemen. 911 asked what race, she said I'm not sure one might have been hispanic, she said--I didn't see their face.

The dispather to the officcer silmply said, we have a possible b&e, (break and entry) at # ----street. No mention of race by the dispatcher or the 911 caller. yet we have a professor telling us this was a racial profile case.

The President of the US threw the officer under the bus based soley on what his professor friend had said to him.

It's why I have a phylosophy that I will never engage in a debate unless I have all the facts. I will defer getting into the fray until I have done my research.

I treat hubpages the same way.

Wow--this was tough, Onusonus, back to politcs my friend!!

The Shark--wishing daughter peace---ck out my hub


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Well, I'm glad to know the Bible is available for reading at the church and is not discouraged in reading it at home. I only asked because of what I was told by an ex-Catholic and ex-Jehovah's Witness. That particular Catholic didn't read the Bible because she said the Priest was the only one with the correct interpretation, and fell victim to those who gave her the "study magazines". Frankly, anyone who doesn't read the Bible falls victim to this. The Bible says, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge". (Hosea 4:6)

Right on ~ all good.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

I think the word "ex" makes my point. Someone that felt they couldn't follow a doctrine for whatever reason starts to mfg things to justify their reason for leaving. I have never heard of any Christian following of any sect discourage Bible reading. That would be like a history instructor saying to his students you are not to read history books.

The Shark


Madame X 7 years ago

Onusonus - wonderful hub! I don't usually get involved with religious discussions because everyone always gets so upset. Besides - no one is ever going to change anyone else's mind - but your hub does bear contemplation. I agree with your earlier statement -

"we claim the priviledge of worshiping almighty God according to the dicataes of our own consience, and allow all men the same priviledge, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

My thought exactly. Good job.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Juda's Daughter,

I wouldn't take too seriously the rantings of people who have been offended in some manner or another by their ex-religion, because the next step is justification by disanullment. Sometimes they become slightly obsessed with debunking the whole ordeal.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Madam X

This is exactly what I believe, people don't burn for trying, and the Lord will deliver a just compensation for everyone. Otherwise why should every knee bend?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Shark,

I totally agree with you. The Ex'es arent a good source to go by.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Onusonus, I'm really sorry to say this, but I looked more deeply into the foundational beliefs of Mormonism and just don't agree that God was ever a man (prior to Jesus) and that He worked His way up to becoming the Almighty God, nor that He had wives who conceived Jesus and Lucifer as brothers in heaven, etc. etc. etc. I don't believe we work our way to becoming gods either. I am praying for all to seek and find the true Jesus. Amen.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

You were obviously reaserching an Anti-Mormon sight, hence the "Brothers with Satan" bit. so lets begin......

First;

Do Mormons believe that Jesus is the Brother of Lucifer?

This is another question intended more to sensationalize beliefs and polarize rather than lead to meaningful communication. Presumably, something akin to guilt by association is intended. The short answer a similarly rhetorical statement—the critic, Judas, and Hitler are brothers too! But the reality of that relationship obviously need not taint the good standing of the critic. All sons of Adam (including all subsequent generations) are brothers.

Latter-day Saints do indeed believe that in a meaningful sense Jesus, angels (including the fallen angel Lucifer), and Adam and all his sons are sons of God—and hence, brothers. The Bible corroborates our respective sonships. No Christian should disagree with that. Perhaps the criticism stems from the fact that Latter-day Saints happen to believe that all the sons of God existed together pre-existently? However, this belief need not change the general equation for brotherhood upon which all Christians agree. Suffice it to say that Latter-day Saints believe Jesus Christ had a unique status as God in the pre-existence—a status other sons of God did not have! Jesus Christ's earliest introduction in Scripture uniquely embraced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints makes that clear—... one among them that was like unto God -- Abraham 3:24–28). None other had Christ's status. And that unique status Jesus Christ had in the pre-existence means Lucifer's brotherhood and our brotherhood with Him there were exactly the same as our common brotherhood with Him is based on His dwelling on the Earth. Brothers yes. Different yes.

On Colossians, see: Creation in Colossians 1:16

To learn more: Jesus Christ is the brother of Satan

Also, note a caution on uses of the word on "all" in scripture from Evangelical leader, Charles Spurgeon:

"The whole world is gone after Him." Did all the world go after Christ? "Then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan." Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God, little children," and "the whole world lieth in the wicked one." Does "the whole world" there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were "of God?" The words "world" and "all" are used in seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that "all" means all persons , taken individually. (Particular Redemption, 28 February 1858)

In other words, if the Bible is to be deemed to be always plain/perspicacious, if such a philosophically absolute interpretation of the word "all" were intended by John or Paul, they would certainly have provided the necessary academic/philosophical clarification, in the immediate context, and the Bible would be much more of a systematic theology and less of a compilation of religious history and moral teaching, and simple witness of God's existence and lov


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Now as for the charge of socalled beliefs in God or Christ having multiple wives; Many anti-Mormons make extensive use of publication called "The Seer" in framing their accusations against the Church. Many members of the Church have not even heard of this publication, much less are familiar with its origins. The Seer was published in Washington, DC, by Orson Pratt, and he used the publication to provide a printed pulpit for his own ideas and pet speculations. It was never considered official LDS doctrine, nor was it ever published by or endorsed by the Church. Elder B.H. Roberts wrote the following in response to those in his day who were heralding the writings of The Seer as representative of official LDS doctrine:

The Seer, by formal action of the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles of the Church was repudiated, and Elder Orson Pratt himself sanctioned the repudiation. There was a long article published in the Deseret News on the 23rd of August, 1865, over the signatures of the First Presidency and Twelve setting forth that this work--the Seer--together with some other writings of Elder Pratt, were inaccurate. In the course of that document, after praising, as well they might, the great bulk of the work of this noted apostle, they say:

"But the Seer, the Great First Cause, the article in the Millennial Star, of Oct. 15, and Nov. 1, 1850 contains doctrine which we cannot sanction and which we have felt to disown, so that the Saints who now live, and who may live hereafter, may not be misled by our silence, or be left to misinterpret it. Where these objectionable works or harts of works are bound in volumes, or otherwise, they should be cut out and destroyed."


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I agree that the word "all" doesn't always mean "all". Lucifer was an angel. Jesus is not. Do you believe Jesus was an angel then? Or that Lucifer is not an angel? Carrie Bradshaw has posted two hubs now on Mormonism and what a sixth generation Mormon said about her experience in the Church. Also, were you aware that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young (however you spell his name) were Masons? Do you think Masons are of the occult?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

I'll have to do some more reaserch on the spefications of Lucifer's pre-fallen state, however I heard somone say that he was the "King of Babylon." As of yet I have no position. Jesus definitely not an Angel; rather-the only begotten son of God.

Also alot of people in America were masons, I'm sure that it was comprable to being part of the PTA. I didn't know about Brigham Young, (Correct spelling, you get a star!) being one.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

By the way, my grandpappy was a mason check out the last picture; http://hubpages.com/family/Family-history-collecti


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Carrie,

I cant believe that you published that crap about us. you need to do more reaserch before you make false assumptions. All this Anti-Mormon literature is easily debunked because a lot of it comes from obscure sources and not from cannonized doctrine.

Irrisponsible, unchristian, and flat out wrong.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Daughter, you don't believe in what someone in the Mormon faith believes, that is why you are not a Mormon. But because you don't believe in something doesn't make it any less or more true.

Of course you are going to find things you don't believe in a faith that you do not belong to.

We can all say that about someone else's faith. But rather than focus on the differences why not focus on the one thing all Christians believe in----Christ.

This is America---one of the things that makes this the greatest country on the face of the Earth is that we have the Right to worship as we desire.

Our biggest fight as Christians is halting the secularists and atheists from driving us completely underground in our own country.

These are same people that celebrate a public university funded with tax dollars, like Michigan State, installing foot washing baths for Muslims to use before prayer sessions, at the same time requiring all crosses to be removed, even in the college chaple.

The Shark


john 7 years ago

is lds like lsd? where can I get some?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Hugs not drugs. You can Get plenty of LDS at your local Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Hi Onuonus,

That last comment from john makes you wonder why people even waste their time responding.

The Shark


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

The Shark, I bet you'd be surprised how many of our leaders that are responsible for the downfall of American freedom are Freemasons?!


A Texan 7 years ago

Obama is a Freemason? Thanks Judahs D.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Shark,

I havn't seen you around lately. I dont mind those guys coming around, I have a few left field questions of my own sometimes.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I'm not here to do all the work for you ~~ do your research. It's just a click away. I pray God's greatest mercy be upon all of us, as He loves us so much. Amen.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Carrie,

If it wern't for some freemasons, we would not have the greatest constitution that has existed in the history of the world.

Condemn them if you will but they are not without charity.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Our country was founded upon Christ, not freemasonry. I beg to differ. Anyhow, I've done all I can do. Pray for me, and I'll pray for you.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Carrie,

I didn't say our country was founded on Freemasonry. I believe that Christopher Columbus was guided by the Lord to re-discover this land, which to it's inhabitants was, and is a land of promise.

Then freedom loving Pilgrims were given the option to escape from the bonds of iniquity by inhabiting this beautiful land of opportunity. American history is wonderful and tragic, but if anything it is now free in the nobelest sense.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Seems to me, we're losing our freedoms because of corruption. We are now the borrower and not the lender; we have foreigners rising to power here; we've been hit by plagues and natural disasters...it's not getting better in just the centuries we've been here. Maybe you have hope that things are going to get better, but Bible prophesy states otherwise. We need to fear the God of the Bible, for He will win in the end. Amen.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Well be of good cheer, and remember that fear is the opposite of faith; it is unworthy of a child of God, it is something that perfect love casteth out.

Fear is darkness, and is without light, therefore it is the absence of faith. Follow the words of a prophet of God, and your prosperity will be prepared for the coming of the bridegroom.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I don't have the spirit of fear. I have the Spirit of love, power and sound mind. I know I'm being bold here, but I fear for Mormons who follow the founding doctrines of Joseph Smith ~ because of the very change of the gospel that's been around for generations. You personally refute a lot of what you call lying documentation of Mormon founding doctrine. For me and all other born again Christians, we stand on the Bible alone. I love you in the love of the Lord. Amen.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Carrie, No false prophet would be able to endure the kind of persicution that Joseph Smith went through. He and the other witnesses of the book of Mormon would have abandoned it long ago had they not believed in this sacred scripture; hidden up unto the Lord to come forth in the last days for the people of God. He once again established his church among his children and has raised up prophets, apostles, teachers, and priests; for the perfecting of the Saints, and the edifying of the body of Christ, whose church it is.

Do you believe in the Priesthood?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I believe in our only High Priest, that is Jesus Christ and no one else. We have one mediator between God and man, as the Bible says. He has made us all to be priests and kings that are His. To say what you have would mean all non-Mormons are unsaved on the road paved to hell. I don't believe we follow the same God, the same Shepherd. I will have to struggle with this in my heart until the Lord comforts me. I am so terribly grieved.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

If you think that because your religions lack of the priesthood means that you are condemned to Hell, then you definately do not understand the scriptures.

I told you before that we do not go around condemning others. And the Priesthood which we hold is sacred and given by the hand of God to mankind in these last days. The Lord has revealed many things to his Prophets concerning the kingdom of Heaven, which includes all of his beloved children.


Madame X 7 years ago

Just as an aside - yeah, the founders were freemasons, but there is more than one faction of freemasonry. And they're not at peace with each other - so it seems to me.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

I prefer not wasting my time trying to debunk other religions or putting down the efforts of people whos beliefs I differ from. Not that I am accusing you of this Madame X.

Let the Freemasons worship how or what they will, as for me and my house, I will serve the Lord.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

There is however a group who uses unorthodox symbolism, is discriminitory of Homosexual teachers, demands money from the public by selling their goods at extreemly hightened prices, holds ralleys for promotion amid their ranks, and only allows males to enter into their socioty.

Often times they take long journies into the wilderness to indoctrinate the new commers or those seeking fellowship. While the full detail of their modes of opperation are scarcely pervious to the outside world many see them as a threat to modern socioty. they are the Boy Scouts.


The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Sorry Dau, but I beg to differ, the free masons did a lot to start this country. GW was a mason, Ben Franklin was a mason, right on through to G H Bush. It's not a religion, the Bush family is Christian the last time I checked. Every organization has wierdos, that doesn't mean the whole is bad. You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

we should be focusing on the important issues right now. The real cowards from DC are on recess right now. Call your congressman and senator's office. Tell the screener you want answers to questions such as, what diseases are covered under the proposed health plan and for how long? What meds are covered and for how long? Tell them you want a return call from the congressman or senator with the information. If you don't get a return call with complete information you will call for a protest outside their office in your dist. Tell them you want a town hall meeting on the health bill. This is what I am doing. These guys are scared, they wanted the vote in Aug. because when they vote in Sept they have to come home to face the fire for re-election.

The Shark---let's roll!!


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Shark,

I'll definately vote against them, too bad Seattle is full of liberals. My vote will definately be thrown out with the bathwater.

Can't say I like protesting much, I've been spit on one time too many.


cosette 6 years ago

i usually see cults as organizations founded by some charismatic (and crazy) person with no religious training or service of any kind in the priesthood. Charles Manson is a great example of that. interesting hub...


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 6 years ago from washington Author

Thanks for the read, I origionally wrote it because I was pissed off at somebody, but I'm feeling much better now!


Eaglekiwi profile image

Eaglekiwi 5 years ago from -Oceania

Hi ,wished Id read this hub before I posted in the forum..haha.sighs.

Enjoy reading your mature and inspiring comments too by the way.

Thankyou for this Hub!


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Thanks for stoping by. I'm not much for being politically correct, but often times for the standards of our day it's the only way to promote growth and tolerance.

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