According to Scottie Pippen when ask to compare LeBron and Michael together, he said that Michael was a much better scorer. However, he says that LeBron is clearly a much better player over all. What do you think? You think Scottie is valid in this? Or do you think he's full of it, and probably got PAID to say that? What are you're thoughts?
LeBron James isnt even a better player than Scottie Pippen ever was....
and up to this point, James has won as many championships as Scottie from Star Trek
Well as much as I hate to say it, I doubt we're seeing the best out of LeBron right now, as I do expect him to get BETTER as his career goes on.
he'll be washed out in a few years like what happened to Vince Carter.
Yea, but the thing that did Carter in was a lot of injuries though. So far unless James goes through the same amount of injury issues, then I do think there's a good chance he'll surpass Michael. Besides, I doubt we're seeing the best of his game yet, and that's the scary thing to think about.
LeBron James has won zero NBA championships
Ask that question again, after winning James has won 3 NBA championship
Not to take away from what you're saying as I perfectly agree with you. However, is it really right that we use championships as the basis to determine who the best player is of all time? After all if that's truly the case, then shouldn't Bill Russell be deemed the best player of all time since he's won 11 titles as a player? Far more than any other player in nba history. Not saying you're wrong, as I think Jordan is still the best player to have ever played the game. However, I think at the rate that LeBron is excelling at, he's bound to surpass him eventually barring any serious injuries.
Right now. In Las Vegas Lebron James would definitely have the odds over Michael Jordan. But Michael Vs Jordan in their primes. I would have to say Jordan would certainly get the odds.
Jordan -- all the way without a doubt. As Mikey says, you have to compare them at the top of their games. You can argue that James hasn't reached him peak, but I'll assume the James is at the peak of his game to do the comparison. If you don't agree, then pose the question in about 2 years....
As I said earlier, this question may be too soon to even bother asking. However, since one of Mike's former teammates brought it up, I thought it might be fun to debate. I think as far as right now, James is nowhere near the same class as Michael Jordan is. Hell, I don't even think Kobe Bryant is, and he's a helluva a lot more closer to being the next Michael Jordan than anyone currently playing in the nba.
However, I do think LeBron is going to continue getting better over time, as he's still young, and he's finally has a talented team around him that can win unlike the Cavs.
That's the difference. Jordan is talented with or without a talented team surrounding him. James needs the other players. Ya, ya ya, it's a team sport, but I've seen Jordan messing around on his lonesome - he's talented!
Yeah, you do have a good point there. Plus, even in playoff series that Michael lost during his younger days in the eighties, you still couldn't shut him down completely, as I remember he scored like 65 points once against the very talented Celtics team that was led by Larry Bird. Whereas James, he gives up when his team has no chance at winning, or at least in his mind when they don't. That's something you'd never see from Jordan.
Personally, I think he has the skill set to surpass Jordan eventually, as it's a definite possibility. However, if I have to judge him mentally, I think he's probably closer to a Dr. J than anything else. A great player with a lot of physical attributes but in the end, he needed a strong leader in Moses Malone to even win a title. something that Michael never needed, as he was the unquestioned leader on that Bulls team.
Did Scottie say LeBron was a better player or a more balanced player? Do you have the link?
Yep, sure do. There should even be a video where Scottie Pippen is quoted saying that.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/n … id=6599168
Huh. Watching the clip, I have the same reaction as those guys. I can see an argument about balance, but as far as simply greatest, I don't know how Scottie can say that at this point. I just don't see it.
Michael Jordan is an all timer. Lebron while good is just Mr. Right Now.
The only thing I can think of that LeBron has over Jordan is the physical ability to bulldoze over defenders (or make defenders want to get out of his way) on his way to the basket. But other than being built like a freight train, I can't think of one thing LeBron has on Jordan in terms of physical talents, mental ability, work-ethic, fortitude, and certainly not resume in any capacity in regard to the game of basketball.
Well to be fair, LJ is a better passer and rebounder than Jordan was, so lets be honest about that. However, I do think LJ still hasn't proven that he's a better leader or a better clutch player than Michael was. After all, LeBron James may get hot enough to carry a game by himself, but Michael dominated entire playoff series by himself; even when the rest of the Bulls couldn't get anything going offensively. Somehow Jordan would find ways to put up points on the board.
Whereas LeBron, he gives up in playoff series when his team has virtually no chance to win. You'd never see that from Michael Jordan. Plus, he's not even the Captain on his own team, as Wade still is the last time I checked. Then again as I told Klara earlier, I doubt we're seeing the best that LeBron can do at this point, so we'll have to wait and see. However, right now I'd have to say that LJ is clearly no Michael Jordan.
Give him time, Steve. The team was put together not long ago. They are still getting to know each other. Haslem didn't start playing until recently, Mike Miller is not completely there either. Wade might be the captain but everyone his teammates look up to LeBron with the same respect as Wade. I really don't care about comparing him to Michael Jordan. If you ask me, there is no point in comparing players. They have a different history, different perspective too.
I wish I could tell you with certainty that we will win this year, but I can't. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I've been watching my team since day one of the season and I can honestly tell you they haven't reached their full potential. They are only 70% there. It might take another year for them to get there. Either way, they are still playing incredible basketball, and they are unpredictable. You can't count them out.
No. MJ won three straght championships, played baseball for two years, came back and put up three more championships. LJ has not won one yet. Why the rush to annoint him?
yeah, that's true, so I take it you think Scottie Pippen is wrong in his assessment then?
Yes... I do... now who am I to say but it just seems the scoring titles, the all-defensive team selections (first teams), the aforementioned championships.... I wonder if Scottie is upset about something? And think about those early series against Boston when he went basically one on five and scored 61 points in the playoffs against Larry Bird and some pretty good other players. He finally learned to set his teammates up and the rest was history. What about playing with the flu?
Let's not forget that even when LBJ does win a title(s), they shouldn't carry the same weight being that he joined Wade's team and they formed a dream team amongst themselves and Chris Bosh. Before this, superstar players didn't scheme to play with one another. Rather, players relished the chance to win titles against their greatest peers - Not join forces to win it with them. If LeBron would have won a title with the Cavs (which I think he eventually would have) then that would held about as high of merits as can be. Instead, he jumped ship to join Dwayne Wade's team. Mind you, Wade is currently a top 5 player in the NBA and had one of the greatest finals series performances of all-time when he won his title on 2006. Wade took that Heat team on his back in a way James was not able to with his Cavs. With that in mind, one could argue that both players have had equally successful careers (Wade and James). Their numbers are not too far apart, Wade has a title and Finals MVP, and LeBron has two MVPs. Then, throw a player like Chris Bosh, who was perceived as a top 20 player in the NBA into the mix. In essence, you can't give LeBron full credit for winning whatever championships he wins with this group. It just doesn't carry the same weight as the Championships Jordan won or even the Title Dwayne Wade won in 2006.
LeBron maybe a better two way player than Jordan
Jordan is the full package in his prime and most exciting player I have ever watch play the game with grace.
Not only that, but you couldn't stop Michael Jordan from dominating a game. Even in playoff series that he lost, the opposing teams couldn't stop him from scoring at will, or making an impact defensively as well. Whereas LeBron, he's been shut down before, in playoff series that he's lost. In fact, his only finals appearance was proof of one such incident.
Although I said LeBron is a better rebounder and passer, I think people often forget that Jordan was a great passer and rebounder too. In fact, i think I remember one record where Mike had averaged at least 6 assists, 6 rebounds, and at least 30 plus points in a season. Something that only players like Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson ever did. Not only that, he was the all time leader in field goal percentage when he retired the second time, and I think he's currently second all time in steals.
By two-way player are we talking about offense and defense? If so, I'm not sure how Jordan's resume can be overlooked. The guy was an anchor for one of the best defensive teams in NBA history, as the Bulls were just that during their 6 championships. Jordan is also tied with Kobe Bryant and Gary Payton for the most 1st Team All-NBA Defensive team. He also has won one NBA Defensive Player of the Year award. He also average over 2 steals and nearly 1 block per game for his career. That's super elite territory.
LeBron has turned into a great defensive player only over the last few seasons. He was outstanding against Derrick Rose, who only shot 6.3% against him in this past series. It seems like people are putting LBJ's accomplishments in the Bulls series over the entire resume of Jordan's career.
I agree. Plus, as i mentioned earlier, Jordan is the second all time steals leader behind only John Stockton. I think it's easy to fall in love with James' game right now, but he still has a long way to go before he should even be deemed the best player of all time, as that's kind of absurd. I think Scottie Pippen obviously wasn't thinking when he said that, as you know how people will utter random thoughts without thinking them through first? Well I think that's the same case here, as Scottie was quoted on twitter backing off his original statement a bit. Saying "Don't get me wrong, Michael Jordan is still the best player that ever played right now. However, once LJ wins a few titles, then it's possible he could surpass MJ." Or something like that, as ESPN reported that he did back off his original statement a bit.
Also, I have seen some in the media and in this forum point out that they believe LeBron is the better passer and rebounder than Jordan. I can give LeBron the nod on rebounding because of his size advantage but LeBron has never played with a good rebounder, so it has always been more of his role to grab rebounds, especially on this Heat team.
On the other hand, it wasn't Jordan's role to rebound. Remember he played with arguably the greatest rebounder of all-time in Dennis Rodman. He played with Charles Oakley, who averaged over 13 rebounds per game in 2 of his 3 seasons with Jordan. He also played with Horace Grant, who was a solid rebounder.
Also are we crediting LBJ as a better passer because he has averaged more assists per game? That's all well and good, but I ask everyone this............................
Who has LeBron made a better player out of all of the teammates he's had? Who has he made better? Maybe Delonte West?
As for Jordan, who did he make better? I would argue he made Pippen into a top 50 player of all-time, as he was named by the NBA. He may not have even been a Hall-of Famer had he not played with Jordan. How about Steve Kerr, who I believe still holds the NBA record for best all-time 3 point percentage. He's not getting those looks without Jordan's presence. I would venture to say that Jordan made everyone better. Not only because of his presence on the court, but just as much because of his leadership and determination to win.
Well no argument there, as Jordan is clearly a better leader than LeBron is. However, I don't often associate assists with leadership, as it's not the same thing. One can say Mark Jackson when he played for the Pacers was the best passer on the team, but I doubt seriously you'd find anyone that would dispute that it was still Reggie Miller's team back in the nineties.
This is kind of why I think LeBron's game would've benefited more from college. Sure, he had the talent to instantly make an impact in the NBA, but I think the college experience would've helped him grow a lot as a person, and it might've developed him as a leader. Even Michael Jordan once said that he learned a lot under his college coach back when he was playing at North Carolina. Therefore, I think LeBron would've benefited a lot more, and probably would've made an even bigger impact in the nba had he gone to college first.
If you honestly look at LeBron's stats, his demeanor and etc. He does get better every year, and I doubt we're truly seeing his maximum potential which is really downright scary if you ask me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's a better player than Jordan, as that's just absurd. However, I do think that when we finally do see LeBron reach the maximum potential that he has, there won't be a single player on the planet that can stop him. I hate to admit it, but it's true. Plus, if the salary cap doesn't decrease too much in the nba that might force the big 3 to break up after this season, then we might be looking at a dynasty in the making with the Heat.
He is close but not there. Jordon has 6 rings and James has none. Jordan stayed in Chicago and James left Cleveland. He is the most hated player in the league right now. The NBA fan base felt betrayed by this. If James does win a few, it is cause he has Wade and Bosh at the helm.
No, Lebron James needs to eat more rice and sleep more! Although he is a candidate in my top five list.
I've read before that Pippen felt he was unfairly upstaged by Jordan. When Jordan was gone, Pippen hardly equaled his performance on the floor. Maybe that played to his statement.
Jordan had a will to win and is one of the very few who could drag an entire team along with him to victory. There are not many true Team Leaders that come along but when they do, they win championships.
LeBron is a nightmare to guard and has power and a shot. Whether he can bring championships to his team ala Jordan, remains to be seen.
First of all being the greatest player is much more than how good of a scorer you are or how many NBA championships you've won, it's about a body of work and the talent they've faced. Michael Jordan is not number 1 on my list, and it's too early to even place Lebron.
I think this about sums it up
"Call me when Lebron has 6 championship titles."
"That's your only argument??"
"IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED, SEAN!!!"
Even if LeBron had 6 rings right now, I still wouldn't even compare him to Kobe. Much less Jordan.
Maybe one day he will be. Not anytime soon. There are other names ahead of James, such as Magic, Shaq, Kareem, ect.
LBJ is better than Jordan? are you kidding me. LBJ is human, Jordan is GOD. you can not compare them.
This question looks funny right now after the finals LeBron has had and the backseat he has taken to Dwayne Wade. Not to mention Game 4's 8 pt, 4 turnover performance in 46 minutes.
I'll say, as you would never see Michael Jordan take a backseat to anyone.
And I say that not to knock LeBron, but rather to credit Jordan. Jordan just performed every single night. I can't remember many times where I ever saw him score under 20 in a game. LeBron, like all other great players has his off nights on the biggest stages, but Jordan really never did and that's what sets him apart from all of the rest.
As for LeBron taking a back seat, it is surprising to see this, considering how great he is. However, the one thing about LeBron is that he has never been as cold-blooded (outside of a miraculous performance against the Pistons years back) as a Jordan, a Kobe, or a Wade in the most pivotal of times. It seems like he does feel the pressure. But then again, one puts a lot of pressure on themselves when they annoint themselves a "king" before they step foot in the NBA and that's a lot to live up to every single night, especially with how media and fans critique everything nowadays to such extreme levels.
Well this is why I said earlier that I think if James had gone to college like Jordan did, then he would've became a much better player; possibly even a clutch cold blooded killer coming out of college. After all, I remember reading once that Michael Jordan did claim he learned a lot from playing under coach Dean Smith at North Carolina. I think if LeBron would've been mentored and learned how to develop his game in college, then he'd be even more unstoppable than he is right now....
I agree with that to an extent, as that makes sense. I do remember however, Kobe Bryant coming into the NBA out of high school and shooting airballs against Utah with the playoff series on the line in his 1st NBA season. Sure, that may have been a failure for him at the time, but how many rookies who barely played would have been takings all of those big shots. That takes guts. He (Kobe) went on in the next few seasons to be the Lakers closer in their 3-peat as a 20-21 year old. Since, he has gone on to be a historic closer at the end of games. But then again, perhaps he could have also used college to have become a better team player, especially for the first few years after ShaQ left.
On the other hand, when LeBron came into the league he never wanted those big shots. Finally, in that series against Detroit that sent them to the NBA Finals in year 4 he finally had the guts to start taking the big shots and perform down the stretch of games. He had always been criticized up until that point for not closing or being cold-blooded.
Then again, look at Dwayne Wade, who was not heralded out of high-school and ended up leading Marquette to the Final Four. He grew from that experience in college and followed it up with his incredible finals performance in 2006. He's cold-blooded.
Well to be fair, you can't compare Kobe to LeBron, as they both had different experiences growing up. I know kobe was the son of a famous aba player, Jelly bean Bryant, and it was reported by ESPN that he used to have guys like Magic Johnson come over to his house personally to teach him how to play basketball. That would explain how Kobe learned how to be a cold blooded clutch player, as he was taught by Magic and possibly other hall of fame players too. Therefore, he didn't need college, as he was already training as a kid with some of the best basketball minds out there, so there's no comparison. Now if Kobe didn't have guys like Magic teach him, then perhaps you might have a point..
Another thing to keep in mind is that Kobe didn't play that much when he first got into the league, nor was he expected to make an immediate impact. No, if memory serves me correctly, Del Harris had him benched because he wanted Kobe to improve drastically on his defense first before starting over Eddie Jones. Therefore, you can't compare Kobe's experience to LeBron, as Kobe obviously didn't need college; since he was already trained by some of the NBA's best as a child, and he was given an opportunity to grow rather than immediately produce right away.
Whereas LeBron, he's basically a poor guy from the streets of Akron. A guy that anointed king of basketball back when he was in high school, yet when he jumped straight from high school to the pros, everyone EVERYONE expected him to perform right away. He wasn't given a cushy year or so like Kobe to develop on the bench. No, LeBron was expected to immediately perform during his first game. I don't care who you are, but that's a lot of pressure.
Has LeBron lived up to the hype since his rookie season? Well I would have to say yes to an extent. This year he definitely dropped off a bit, and he still has a long ways to go before fully reach his potential. You even stated earlier he just started to become a premier defender a few years ago, so who's to say that LeBron won't develop into a clutch shooter eventually. After his show "The Decision", he may have immediately lost people like me as one of his fans, but I'll still admit that I don't care what anyone says, we're not seeing the full potential of what he can do yet. As he always seems to grow in different ways, and improves drastically. Making some of his weaknesses into strength.
Very similar to how Jordan was viewed in his scouting report coming out of college; where scouts said he wasn't great defensively and was inconsistent shooting. Well, that only fueled Michael into making those weaknesses into his main strengths.
Not that I'm comparing him to Michael Jordan, but in that sense, he does have a Jordan mentality. Where he basically tries to make his weaknesses his strengths.
Game 5 will determine the winner of this year's finals. If the Mavericks win, then I know they can still take one of the next two games in Miami to win it. However, if the Heat win game 5, then I doubt seriously the Mavericks are going to beat the heat two games in a row in Miami. Not unless the Heat have a total meltdown.
I'll have my James shirt tomorrow, Greek. Make fun of him all you want, but start preparing the package!
Lebron has a long way to go to even be listed as good as Magic Johnson or Larry Bird. MJ is still the greatest by a large margin. I heard the Scottie Pippen comments when they were first out and I thought to myself, what is he thinking. Still not sure.
Michael Jordan has class. He was a gentleman of the game much like baseball players. LeBron James may be as good of a player, but he will not have the Superstar Effect on fans as Michael Jordan did.
Well, it is showing now. James can't finish the 4th quarter. Just 8 points the other night? DYK Jordan's worst game in the playoffs was a 22 point performance.
watchout labron the new king is here and his name is Ricky Rubio!
LoL. That's actually a good parallel comparison in terms of how the two were perceived and hyped as middle-teenagers. LeBron actually lived up to and exceeded the hype in terms of relaistic expectations, although he has not lived up to being " the king" of the NBA world, yet . Whereas Rubio has greatly underwhelmed in his last few seasons in Europe and leaves a lot to be desired as he will begin his pro career.
As I have said, Lebron needs to eat more rice in all department, class, loyalty, deliver "just when I needed you most".
He can't be compared to the likes of Bird and Jordan.
Jordan 6 wins and 0 losses in NBA finals
also 6 NBA finals MVPs
scoring titles and reg season MVPs out the yang too.
Kobe is 5 and 2 in Finals -
1 NBA finals MVPs
scoring titles - 1??
LeBron is 0 wins and 2 losses in Finals
scoring titles - 1 ??
stop with this question. It is not even close
Bron needs a go-to move like Steve Kerr mentioned. Did you see his pathetic post-game (...err moves) in 1/2 court offense. I dunno, you can say what you want. But, there is big money on these games. For 1, and it may never be fully revealed or someone will just discredit the people, sports does have gambling and where there is gambling there is corruption. LB's performance was so bad it appeared he received death threats. I know for a fact from actual coaches it exists in a few other (international) sports. Anyway, look at his play against Celtics and Bulls. Marion is not a better defender than Pierce .
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and will the only title he will ever win in the NBA be the game's "Most Self-Indulgent Player"
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