Actual Figures: Exactly How Much You Can Earn On Each Pay To Write Site

Hubbers participate in this unique and wonderful community of writers for self-expression and self-gratification, but a significant number also do it for the bucks. Any HubPage writer who has been writing on this site for a while is aware of the amount of money that can be made on HubPages, but I'm also sure that they have all wondered at one time or another how much could be made on the various other major Pay To Write Sites around the Internet.

There is an inordinate amount of hyperbole surrounding virtually all Pay To Write Sites. Many evangelists will claim that you can get rich writing just one article a year, blah, blah, blah...

Others tear out their hair having written scores of articles and receiving only pennies in return.

Well, here are the actual figures. There is no hyperbole or false claims here. These are all solid, verifiable statistics derived from major, acknowledged, fair and unbiased statistical websites such as Alexa, Quantcast and WebsiteOutlook.

So for all you Hubbers who wondered how other sites stack up to what you're earning now... enjoy!

The first consideration has to be how many articles the Pay To Write Site is currently publishing. As you can see, associatedcontent.com and helium.com are the 900 lb. gorillas in this field, with families.com, methodshop.com, and dailyarticle.com barely registering. Here are the actual figures:

associatedcontent.com: 1251941
helium.com: 1250000
squidoo.com: 900000
about.com: 750000
demandstudios.com: 500000
xomba.com: 245000
suite101.com: 175000
reviewstream.com: 65000
triond.com: 50000
families.com: 6000
dailyarticle.com: 1500
methodshop.com: 1500

The number of articles is quite accurate with the following exceptions: the numbers for methodshop.com and triond.com are more than a bit suspect due to the inability to determine the precise number of articles, therefore the number of articles listed may be way low which will throw out all further calculations for these two sites.

Some figures are estimated and rounded.

Now we have to consider the Net Worth of the Pay To Write Site as currently performing. Here are the actual figures:

about.com: $31,700,000.00
squidoo.com: $4,940,000.00
associatedcontent.com: $3,590,000.00
suite101.com: $1,880,000.00
xomba.com: $882,263.40
helium.com: $863,684.90
demandstudios.com: $115,208.60
reviewstream.com: $110,062.10
families.com: $104,098
triond.com: $70,364.70
methodshop.com: $60,531.60
dailyarticle.com: $10,212.70

about.com is outrageously profitable especially when you consider that about half of the sites have a net worth below $120,000.

Some figures are estimated and rounded.

Daily Revenue is somewhat in line with total Website Net Worth, but it is interesting in showing just how much money each site pulls in each day:

about.com: $43,423.88
squidoo.com: $6,764.94
associatedcontent.com: $4,920.48
suite101.com: $2,576.75
xomba.com: $1,208.58
helium.com: $1,183.13
demandstudios.com: $157.82
reviewstream.com: $150.77
families.com: $142.60
triond.com: $96.39
methodshop.com: $82.92
dailyarticle.com: $13.99

I doubted as well the fact that it seems that about half the sites don't even make a lousy $200 a day for the entire freakin' site, but the statistical figures don't lie. Here they are. If anyone has any information to prove otherwise, I welcome the input and would be happy to modify these findings.

Some figures are estimated and rounded.

This is the big one. The average amount that the particular Pay To Write Site pays as a share of its ad revenue as currently performing. Here are the actual figures:

about.com $21.13
methodshop.com $20.18
families.com $8.67
suite101.com $5.37
dailyarticle.com $3.40
squidoo.com $2.74
xomba.com $1.80
associatedcontent.com $1.43
reviewstream.com $0.85
triond.com $0.70
helium.com $0.35
demandstudios.com $0.12

Now keep in mind that there are various assumptions at work here. First of all, everything is calculated at 50% of total ad revenue sharing, even though some of the sites vary a bit from that. Also, about.com pays primarily on a monthly "salary" basis plus performance incentives, so that figure may be a bit off. Otherwise, the rest of the figures are fairly accurate.

I fully understand that most readers were interested in this figure first and foremost, and it may come as a bit of a shock. About half the sites pay less than two bucks per article. If we assume that each article averages 500 words, then you are getting paid one cent for every two and a half words for original unique content, which is darn near slave wages any way you look at it. You're not going to catch me dead working for that amount, thank you very much. Indeed, it is a revenue level which is only practicable when your expenditures are at Third World levels, obviating anyone in Europe, North America, etc. from being able to make it worth their while in any way, shape or form.

Remember as stated previously that the numbers for methodshop.com and triond.com are a bit suspect due to the inability to get a precise number of articles, as the number listed may be way low and the resultant payment figure shown here be completely out of whack.

Some figures are estimated and rounded.

It is also very important to note that this payment per article shown above is a total figure and is not at all amortized over the age of the entire site. Some of them have been up for well over a decade as you can see below:

The dates these sites first went online are:

families.com: 10/95
suite101.com: 06/96
helium.com: 05/97
xomba.com: 02/99
about.com: 03/99
methodshop.com: 03/99
associatedcontent.com: 12/03
squidoo.com: 06/05
reviewstream.com: 07/05
triond.com: 03/06
demandstudios.com: 05/06
dailyarticle.com: 09/07

Therefore, it is extremely significant to note that the total payments shown above would be for the overall age of the website, which in cases such as families.com would stretch over 14 years. It is far more significant to look at expected monthly income. These figures are:

about.com: $1.74
methodshop.com: $1.66
families.com: $0.71
suite101.com: $0.44
dailyarticle.com: $0.28
squidoo.com: $0.23
xomba.com: $0.15
associatedcontent.com: $0.12
reviewstream.com: $0.07
triond.com: $0.06
helium.com: $0.03
demandstudios.com: $0.01

As we can see from this analysis, half of the sites pay 15 cents per month or less on average. Again, keep in mind that methodshop.com and triond.com's total article counts are likely not accurate so their actual payments would be much lower.

What these figures show is that a writer who posts an article of 500 words on half of these sites will get paid less than one penny for each 33 words written every month.

OUCH!

Daily Page Views for the entire site are very important as the best articles in the world won't be successful unless there are a large number of eyeballs checking them out. Here are the stats:

about.com: 14,473,684
squidoo.com: 2,254,098
associatedcontent.com: 1,639,344
suite101.com: 858,034
xomba.com: 402,193
helium.com: 393,559
demandstudios.com: 51,862
reviewstream.com: 49,589
families.com: 46,788
triond.com: 31,462
methodshop.com: 26,894
dailyarticle.com: 4,663

Alexa's Traffic Ranking is incredibly important as it shows where each site stands in comparison to every other site on the net. The lower the number, the more highly ranked and popular the site is. As we can see:

about.com: 78
squidoo.com: 495
associatedcontent.com: 659
suite101.com: 1,204
xomba.com: 2,632
helium.com: 2,730
demandstudios.com: 14,071
reviewstream.com: 20,191
families.com: 22,409
triond.com: 32,734
methodshop.com: 42,187
dailyarticle.com: 187,622

... about half the sites are below 14,000 rank which makes them virtually invisible.

Another very important Alexa statistic is the percentage of traffic each site receives relative to the entire internet. Understand this one by imagining that if there was a supersite that drew 1% of all the traffic on the entire net, it would have a number of 1.00:

about.com: 0.0411
squidoo.com: 0.009750
associatedcontent.com: 0.004510
helium.com: 0.002544
suite101.com: 0.002336
families.com: 0.001830
xomba.com: 0.001288
demandstudios.com: 0.000535
triond.com: 0.000152
reviewstream.com: 0.000140
methodshop.com: 0.000075
dailyarticle.com: 0.000037

No big surprise here as about.com continues to trounce everyone in most other categories as well as this one.

 Quantcast reports in on actual people-traffic, or how many actual real individuals visit each site every month:

about.com: 44,100,000
associatedcontent.com: 19,400,000
squidoo.com: 9,100,000
suite101.com: 7,300,000
helium.com: 2,000,000
xomba.com: 1,400,000
families.com: 667,300
methodshop.com: 297,200
reviewstream.com: 198,400
demandstudios.com: 84,000
dailyarticle.com: 45,000
triond.com: 15,800

Again, it's amazing how half the sites don't even reach a million readers a month!

Question sites are interesting variants on Pay To Write but don't fit into statistically equivalent structures to the pure Pay To Write sites, thus can't be easily compared. Regardless, here is some data on these:

So what is the bottom line? It seems that out of all of the Pay To Write Sites, the only one that is consistently at the head of the class is about.com. The only real problem with rushing to go write for this particular site is that they will only hire "experts" and that only after significant vetting of qualifications. It isn't a site that anyone can just go and write articles for such as HubPages, which is far more egalitarian.

Therefore, the important factor to consider when comparing your current HubPages income against these "competitors" is how much you're making now for your efforts vs. what you could be making at some of these other "open" sites (which naturally exclude about.com).

I don't know about you but I'm not writing 33 words to get paid a penny a month, thank you very much. I know that when I run my figures on my earnings on this site, there is absolutely no doubt: HubPages is way and above the best paying Pay To Write Site on the net!

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Comments 102 comments

Gypsy Willow profile image

Gypsy Willow 7 years ago from Lake Tahoe Nevada USA , Wales UK and Taupo New Zealand

Interesting stats, I'm staying!


Lisa HW profile image

Lisa HW 7 years ago from Massachusetts

Hal, excellent information. I took the liberty of linking to this Hub from my online blog. (If there's some reason you prefer I remove the link e.mail me..)

Based on my own online writing experience, I agree with you that the potential for earning on HubPages is far higher than on other sites.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Gypsy Willow, this just goes to prove what I've been saying all along. HubPages is the only site online where it's worth your while writing!

Lisa HW, by all means, I welcome your link, and I'm also glad that your experience with HubPages mirrors mine. I think that when you run the numbers like I have, the comparison becomes crystal clear.


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

Hi Hal, interesting stats and a couple of sites I did not know about - but why in the world you omitted HP from your stats? Or is it just me getting HP-blind? ;)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

This article is directed towards writers who are already on this site so that they can compare their earnings against what they can expect (on the average) on other sites. I would love to get various inputs from current Hubbers on how their actual income compares to some of these, especially the most similar sites such as squidoo.com so that we are truly comparing apples to apples. I even posted a link on this on the Forums to solicit the comparisons from Hubbers (see... I do participate in the forums, Misha... nah nah nah naaaaaaaaaah naaaaaah!) :)


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

Well, I think this would be incorrect comparison. If we want to compare apples to apples, we should use average figures across the board I think. Like for example me and say blogging2 are making some several times different amounts of money on HP, and if either of us compares those amounts to average amounts on other sites, we'd get quite different results. Do you see what I am saying? :)


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 7 years ago from London

Very interesting indeed, thanks.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Misha: Absolutely correct. We have to make a determination of statistical averaging in the sense that a good writer is most certainly going to make more than a penny per month per article on demandstudios.com. However, in order to make that determination we have to figure in the skill and audience appeal of the individual writer and the best way to do that is just for a Hubber to go onto demandstudios.com (if they'll accept you... long story...) and write an article to see what the return is. As much as it pains me to state it, the majority of Hubs are sheer unadulterated garbage which are written in an incomprehensible manner by writers who have only the barest passing acquaintance with the English language. As a result they get zero traffic, subterranean HubScores, and end up vanishing beneath the waves, showing up only in the "total articles published" numbers. Even the notable Hubbers (such as myself) have laid goose eggs: I have had entire series of Hubs that haven't drawn flies and probably haven't made me even one penny per month. Having said that, some of my Hubs have hit paydirt with one registering over a quarter million page views. Therefore, I have to completely agree with you that this statistical comparison was designed for Hubbers directly and not the general public to compare HubPages amidst the competition, and I can also assure you that the numbers for this site would not be too far out from squidoo.com.

London Girl: Thanks! Much appreciated!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks, dianacharles. I want to be very clear that there are some very good sites out there, such as about.com. However, they are for "established experts in one particular field" and definitely not for the general public. In the HubPages mould, squidoo.com and associatedcontent.com would seem to be the closest matches. Regardless, I'm sticking right here on HubPages (until they throw me off!) :)


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

I don't think they would dare to throw off one of the most prolific hubbers (and quality one at this:)) - unless you keep spamming the forums :P


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Hey... I've been thinking... maybe I can draw some traffic to my 200+ Car MPG Hubs that haven't been read by anyone but my cat if I post links to each and every one in each forum category...

OK OK DON'T SHOOT! I'M JUST KIDDIN'!

Thank you for the kind words as to the quality of my Hubs. Much appreciated! As for throwing me out, I certainly wouldn't be too surprised... as you well know I'm a hell raiser par excellence and I'm sure I've ruffled more than a feather or two along the way! :)


2patricias profile image

2patricias 7 years ago from Sussex by the Sea

Hello Hal, I think I might have fallen in love with you for providing this information. Tricia (the other patricia) and I have been slogging away at our own website and wondering once in a while if we might make more money just selling to a 'pay' site like about (if they would have us). This information affirms our decision to stick at our own site - and continue with Hub pages. We are certainly not making big money, and won't be giving up the day job (for a while), but could be doing a lot worse. Plus we really enjoy what we are doing.

This is so encouraging. I may even look at your 200+ car MPG hubs out of gratitude for all this research and calculation.


Pearldiver profile image

Pearldiver 7 years ago from Tomorrow - In Words & NZ Time.

Nice work Hal and interesting stats for someone like me who certainly isn't a freelance pro by any means. As you probably know 10% of fisherman catch 90% of the fish and I wonder what the real relevancy of producing ongoing quality has in the industry. Clearly, some long term benefit is available for the 10% of writing stock... which probably is irrevelevant if it takes such little income for the period that it takes to fully develop one's 'portfolio' .. Crazy that the Love of Writing is so obviously abused, as a result of the love itself.

Financially, I can't wait to loose the love .. lol

Thanks for the great wake up... Pearl(less)diver.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

2patricias: I trust you will find in our new relationship that I am fiercely monogamous, the very last of the great romantics, and a tiger in the boudoir for a man of my... er... advanced age. And if the other patricia would want to join in, I'm certain that we could live the lyrics of the Toby Keith song:

She said, "Hello, my name is Bobby Jo

Meet my twin sister Betty Lou

And we're both feeling kinda wild tonight

And you're the only cowboy in this place

And if you're up for a rodeo

I'll put a big Texas smile on your face

"I said, "Girls

I ain't as good as I once was

I got a few years on me now

But there was a time, back in my prime

When I could really lay it down

And if you need some love tonight

Then I might have just enough

I ain't as good as I once was

But I'm as good once as I ever was"

OK, all nonsense aside now... :)

Thank you very much for the validation of this Hub, and I fully agree that the enjoyment of Hubbing is of primary importance. It certainly is for me. And please save your time and don't subject yourself to all those Car MPG Hubs. I think they're better off forgotten! Six weeks of solid work down the drain... Sigh... :)

Pearldiver: Thanks! It is certain that there is a very tiny numerical minority of HubPage writers who gain the majority of the financial benefit, however, that does not diminish the fact that there are some absolutely outstanding writers on this site regardless of income (as well as a fair number of Hubbers who should have their keyboards seized by law enforcement agencies in order to save the world from their incoherent blather.) :)


frans240 profile image

frans240 7 years ago

Mmm..very well put together.. new to me..been browsing about.com a few weeks ago and left there again... I am no expert writer YET :-)

Just had my 3rd Hubber posted... looking for the income potential with HUB pages...haven't check that out yet...do have some squidoo lenses..

Thanks for sharing this vital info and the hard work research you did!!

Thums UP


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks frans240! I appreciate your comments. Good luck Hubbing! :)


Iphigenia 7 years ago

Very interesting - I do like Hub Pages and realise that I have to be around a lot longer to make more than coffee money - after 4 months I make about $6 a month here ... pays for the coffee. Thanks for all this information.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks, Iphigenia. You might want to check out some of my tips on increasing your AdSense income (not that I necessarily follow my own advice... hehehe) in this Hub:

http://hubpages.com/community/Shun-The-Experts--Ma...


Marisa Wright profile image

Marisa Wright 7 years ago from Sydney

Hi Hal - I hadn't come across you before, in spite of your 1,000 Hubs (which just goes to show that you need a forum presence!).  This is a great Hub!  There's so much rubbish peddled on the internet about writing sites, mainly by people who have realised the only way to make money from them is to sign up other suckers. I've written a couple of Hubs on the topic - and in fact, I'm off to add a link to this Hub into both of them!

PS. You're spot on with Helium's earnings. They used to average about 10 cents per article per month. Now that you have to stay active to earn pennies, the pay has about doubled.


sleeptalker profile image

sleeptalker 7 years ago from Philippines

Hi Hal, I'm a new hubber and still thinking lately if hubpages is really a good site until i read your hub, and now, I'm convinced. I will be spending a lot of time enjoying writing hubs here. :)

 

Thanks!


Yoga Guy 7 years ago

those stats shed alot of light on how the top sites like About perform. Thanks for posting this info.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Marisa Wright: It's taken my friend Misha several months of not so gentle (cattle) prodding to get me onto the Forums but I'm there now! :) Thank you so much for the kind words, and thank you as well for the linkage. I also appreciate your independent confirmation of Helium's (non)-earnings! :)

sleeptalker: Thanks! As I just replied to CJ Stone on my Hub:

http://hubpages.com/community/What-Ive-Learned-Fro...

"I can without the shadow of a doubt place HubPages management as the by far #1 best, friendliest, most ethical, most consistent, and most understanding (and... dang... I've given them more than enough cause to not be so understanding with my inherent proclivity to raising hell) of any publishing company I have ever worked for. I'm not just puckering up when I say that HUBPAGES IS THE BEST!"

Yoga Guy: Thank you for the kind words. about.com seems to be the only major online site left which is offering writing contracts these days. I specifically did not include examiner.com on this review as their approval process is even more onerous than about.com and there have been some "questions" raised lately about the work on that site, so I steered clear. (For now anyway.) :)


Singular Investor profile image

Singular Investor 7 years ago from Oxford

Thanks for the excellent info. Hal - re. Squidoo I can tell you that from my own experience they are a waste of time. I've got a couple of lenses up over there but in 2 years I've made about $20 and their system is so slow and user unfriendly it is a total joke. My experience with HP has been much better even though it was not my intention to use HP to make pots of money, it seems that it is possible to make some so I will be increasing my number of hubs whereas I've given up totally on Squidoo.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

You're absolutely right. I've never used Squidoo but I've heard plenty of complaints about it. All you need to do to completely convince you of Squidoo vs. HubPages performance is to check out the last few months' charts on Alexa of the two websites. This platform is skyrocketing while Squidoo is flat.


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 7 years ago from California

Well, did your cat like your MPG hubs at least?  I mean, for me, as a story teller writer more than a commerical one, it's about getting read.  It's so lonely writing in a vacuum.  Many things I just write for myself, so, don't care, but some things I/we do write for the good of others.  You write informative stuff, I write humor, we're both trying to improve people's lives.  The stats you give were interesting, although I confess they sort of started to hurt my brain after a while, but the bottom line is, if you write well (which you summed up nicely in that one comment lol), at least there are avenues to be read and earn a few pennies too.  That's better than it was twenty years ago and from there back to the invention of stick-in-the-sand writing eons ago.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

My cat loves my MPG Hubs so much that he memorized them. He especially loves the motorcycle ones about Meowto Guzzi and KittenTM. :) When I was a publisher and editor of all those magazines so many millennia ago, I would receive at least twenty unsolicited articles per day and they all went right into the trash. I can certainly understand how difficult it is for a writer to get published in any form of print medium, and that is one of the main reasons that makes HubPages so great! Keep up the great storytelling, Shadesbreath! You're one of the best on here! :)


embitca profile image

embitca 7 years ago from Boston

families.com: 10/95suite101.com: 06/96helium.com: 05/97xomba.com: 02/99

I'm surprised to learn that these sites are all older than About.com. Have they all followed the same format all this time? I think one of the strength's of About.com is it is exactly the same type of site today as when it first started.

On the other hand, About.com makes me gnash my teeth. It is FULL of duplicate content. I love their so-called experts. Many of them are experts at plagiarism. I've had to send DCMA letters to them repeatedly to get my stuff taken down.

I think Alexa.com based states are near worthless. It only records information based on the users who have the Alexa bar installed. Hardly anyone except internet marketers install it.

I have a lot of content on Squidoo. As far as the revenue sharing aspects, I do far better on Hubpages. I have a few lenses that have made a couple of $100 each, but that is about of about 100 or so lenses total.

On the other hand, at one point (over a year ago) I was making far more affiliate earnings off of Squidoo because I could put far more links to outside companies on a lens and I could be really in your face about demanding a sale. Nowadays though, the subtle approach that is required on Hubpages, even with only two links to an outside site, outperforms Squidoo for me because my Hubpages are far better ranked in Google than my comparable Squids. So much so that I am currently removing some of my best content from Squidoo and placing it here instead.

Squidoo can be useful though. I have this weirdo little niche that I've done really well with. Right now I have 5 out of the 10 first page SERPS on Google for the major keyphrase -- that's a Squidoo Lens, an EzineArticle, an article on another site, a Hubpage and my own site. LOL

I signed up for Associated Content, but never got around to writing anything there. I really like instant gratification. On Hubpages I don't have to wait to be "in print" as it were. I don't mind waiting for EZA so much because they usually approve my stuff within a day and they send me traffic which makes up for the giving them my articles for free thing, but I think AC has some really long wait times for publishing approval.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Hi embitca. It would be an interesting process to look up families.com, et al on the Internet Wayback Machine to check out what formats they had in the past and how they evolved over time. Like you, I have little more than thinly disguised disdain at about.com's experts and agree that they crib more than almost anyone on the web. I'd love to run a few thousand about.com pages through Copyscape and then smack them on the head for all their plagiarism. Maybe if you and the other responsible and credible HubPages Big Earners can help me get my Adsense income up I could afford the Copyscape fees! (Howdya like that for a roundabout pitch?) :)

I've checked Quantcast through the research and it does seem to jibe fairly closely to Alexa. Determining online ratings is just as obscure and inaccurate as television ratings, where Nielsen will monitor a small handful of families to determine TV ratings that account for billions of dollars of ad revenue. It's a joke, but it's the best that there is at this time, unfortunately.

I'm very impressed by the way you go multi-platform. I guess I'm just too old and addled and I'd start to lose track after a bit. I'll stick with HubPages because I love it the best! :)


Mighty Mom profile image

Mighty Mom 7 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

Thanks, Hal! I'm with Shadesbreath in that some of your statistical charts made my little writer's head hurt (so cool that you are a word person AND a numbers person!). But this is very helpful information.

Just goes to show, there's no place llike Hub Pages, there's no place like Hub Pages!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks! I'm clicking my ruby red Hubshoes right now! :)


Daniel 7 years ago

I can assure You Triond Makes More than 97 bucks a day. No mention of Examiner.com?


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I'm not so sure about Triond. Right now their current Alexa rank is 41,505 which is absolutely miserable. Where would they make their money from with such embarrassingly low traffic? As for Examiner.com I've left them out since there have been some very well publicized problems in getting approved to write with them and I really don't want to get myself or my readers embroiled in that mess.


FeliceGerwitz profile image

FeliceGerwitz 7 years ago from Florida

Alright, I'm very new to this group...website, ummm...hub... and I want to throw out a question to all of you...

As a speaker, author and publisher I have made more money self-publishing (and publishing other authors) than writing freelance would ever pay, given the stats in this well written and researched piece (way to go, Hal!). Have any of you thought about compiling your hubs...freelance pieces...blog posts, etc. and coming up with a book to sell?

I know this isn't a forum to discuss this question, and maybe I need to write a hub about this topic (yes, I think I will later today!). But, there seems to be lots of writing talent that is spent making websites money.

In case you are wondering, I found hubpages through a post from one of my contacts on LinkedIn. I wrote my first hub page yesterday just for fun.

Very interesting post ...but I feel bad for all the authors not cashing in on their talent. (No, I'm not an internet marketing guru and really a publisher...albeit small publisher!)

http://hubpages.com/literature/Whats-in-a-Title

 


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

FeliceGerwitz: Thank you for the comment and the kudos. I have long believed that compiling my Hub writings into a book would be a great idea, but various aspects have dissuaded me.

First of all, in this economy and the current desolate state of the publishing business, you can't publish squat unless your name is Stephen King, James Patterson, or J.K. Rowling. In the last year, I have seen an unprecedented number of long-established publishers and literary agencies I had worked with and knew well just vanish into thin air. Including one publisher who still owes me over $55,000. OUCH!

Another very important factor: Disregarding about three hundred Hubs I've written that were not much more than collections of figures and statistics, I have about 800 Hubs that could be considered suitable for a book anthology. My average word count is 750, so we have about 600,000 words which is considerably longer than War And Peace. I'm not too sure that there are sufficient Halophiles out there to warrant publishing a tome of this length as I don't think I'd buy a book that long, even if I'd written it!

If we look at all the Hubs published, (a number that is in excess of 300,000) we can certainly concede that most of them are unsuitable for the anthology. After all, there has to be a limited audience for Hot Desi Girls, My Big Tomato Plant, or How I Cured Myself Of Cancer By Eating KFC. However, who in tarnation is going to read all 300,000 Hubs to determine which are suitable and which aren't?

Having said that, I think it's an admirable concept and one that I've been mulling around since I started over two years ago. I just can't come up with an angle that would make it work. :)


Journey * profile image

Journey * 7 years ago from USA

Wow Hal, this is a great hub. Very informative. Thanks so much for the stats.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

You're very welcome! Thank you for the compliments! :)


brownlickie 7 years ago

Thank you for all your comparison charts. I have already tried Squidoo but I found that Hubpages is easier to set up. The one thing I miss at hubpages is after you publish an article, Squidoo has shortcuts to promoting your articles like digg, stumble, and others. Although Hubpages has facebook and twitter, it would be nice not to have to go looking other sites. Great Hub!

Regards Brian


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

brownlickie, thanks, but those promotion link shortcuts are on every Hub! Just click SHARE IT at the bottom of the last text capsule!


Stephen Brno 7 years ago

Hal

That is a very informative hub, great job! But just one question, how come you didn't include Hub pages in theses statistics? I know you mention at the end that it goes to show you that hub pages is one of the best places to write for, but I don't see how you come to that without showing any of Hub pages' stats in there? I am actually curious about that now. By the way, where can I find all of that info online? There's a few other paid writing sites I'd like to check out as well.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks! As I mentioned earlier, this Hub is intended for current Hubbers who already are aware of their traffic and earnings and want to compare what they are actually getting with other sites. A complete current review of HubPages' stats is on

http://blog.hubpages.com/2009/07/hubpages-133-mill...


sonceslife profile image

sonceslife 7 years ago

Two thumbs up!! Fantastic article.


C.V.Rajan profile image

C.V.Rajan 7 years ago from Kerala, India

There may be lot of facts in what you have painstakingly provided. But, without including Hubpages in all these charts, your analysis and your final suggestive conclusion about Hubpages to be the best lacks conviction.

If you go to Helium there are couple of writers who had put in their heart and soul to the site, posted thousands of articles there (like what you have done at Hubpages) and they are extremely happy about what they have achieved and earned there.

I have seen similar ("this site is the best") claims in other site's discussion boards (at AC, suite101 etc) by prolific writers in those sites.

I have been writing in a site howtodothings.com which does not even figure in the above lists and that site is really earning me the best rate per article per month if you discount upfront payments.

If you have written in same quantities in several sites (and not pouring your most in one site) then you have a better chance of gauging which site is better PERSONALLY FOR YOU.

Individuals earnings depend on countrless factors (quality/ relevance/ longivity of subject/ SEO/ Popularity of site etc etc). A site successful for one may not prove to be so for another.

By the way, can you give specific references or links to your statistics about "daily revenues" earned by each site?

Do you mean to say that what every company earns a day or pays back a day are such a "freely available info" in the internet for everyone to see?

cvr


Rochelle Frank profile image

Rochelle Frank 7 years ago from California Gold Country

Interesting stuff, thanks. I'll keep this as a reference, though I may never get to the point of using it in a practical way. It's nice, at least, to know what the 'outside world' is doing.

Much appreciated.


Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer 7 years ago from Sparti, Greece

Interesting take, Hal - Thanks for taking the time to do the research on that. That is one of the reasons why I stay away from article sites and prefer to write for hire.

I have been with oDesk for over a year and, whilst I only receive work infrequently, it is for decent money. Mind you, that took a year of hard work building up a reputation.

There is no such thing as easy money for writing!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

sonceslife: Thanks! Much appreciated!

C.V.Rajan: I've addressed several of your points earlier in the comments, but I do want to address your last query. There are several legitimate websites where the exact earnings of each domain are calculated through algorithms based on their traffic. The figures in this Hub originated from that research.

Rochelle Frank: Thanks!

Sufidreamer: My pleasure! You're absolutely correct when you say "There is no such thing as easy money for writing!" :)


C.V.Rajan profile image

C.V.Rajan 7 years ago from Kerala, India

Hal,

I went through your replies once again. You have not given any explanation as to why you have excluded Hubpages in your painstaking comparisons!

Without including HP, the whole exercise lacks conviction. I am really surprised by your repeated stand the "HP is the best!"

It sounds like a 3 year old saying "my mother is the most beautiful in the world"!

I have seen exactly same statements by successful authors at Helium, Suite101 and AC discussion forums! Incidentally, right today, I have received a newsletter from Suite101 editor-in-chief stating that one of the authors of suite101 has earned $5000 as ad-revenue received for the month of July! Funnily, he has not identified (stating privacy reasons!) as to who the member was.

So, every site boasts about outlandish successes by individuals.

So making a generic statement like "go east, go west HP is the best" can be taken only with a pinch of salt.


storm jackson profile image

storm jackson 7 years ago from USA

I know that the Xomba.com start date is way off. They started out in 2006. It says this all over the website, and even in their content directory, it only goes back to 2006.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

C.V. Rajan: Fifth from the top: "This article is directed towards writers who are already on this site so that they can compare their earnings against what they can expect (on the average) on other sites. I would love to get various inputs from current Hubbers on how their actual income compares to some of these, especially the most similar sites such as squidoo.com so that we are truly comparing apples to apples. I even posted a link on this on the Forums to solicit the comparisons from Hubbers." As for suite101 dude or dudette making $5000 last month, I made $500,000 so there! Pick who you believe, and you'd better not believe either one! :)

storm jackson: Yes, I guess that you are right and the leading web statistics source ALEXA.COM IS WRONG. Uh huh... :)


larrybass profile image

larrybass 7 years ago from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Great hub Hal! Very informative and a real time saver for me. I Love Hubpages too! :-) lb

http://larrybass.blogspot.com/


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks!


Len 7 years ago

Hal,

Please shed some more light on this: "There are several legitimate websites where the exact earnings of each domain are calculated through algorithms based on their traffic."

What are the names of these sites? What do their algorithms take into account.

Also, where did you find the information that Helium went online in 97?


Aline S 7 years ago

Hi! You should also consider http://www.estimix.com They provide a nice summary of the website performance. I trust that you’ll find this very useful cause it seems to use the Alexa traffic information quite well and provides much better traffic information.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Len, what part of "derived from major, acknowledged, fair and unbiased statistical websites such as Alexa, Quantcast and WebsiteOutlook" do you not understand? :)

Aline S, personally I don't like Estimix as other than IP addresses and server info, it carries the same basic info as the others, but leaves out a lot. Compare the Alexa and Estimix info and you'll see that Alexa has much more data. Furthermore, I believe their website net worth numbers to be extremely high. Maybe before the dotcom bust, but not after this recession! I believe WebsiteOutlook's net worth figures are far more accurate.


km 7 years ago

I shook my head through this whole blog. Regarding DemandStudios -- what on EARTH are you talking about? Pennies, you say? I've been writing for DemandStudios for a few months and I haven't made less than $500 a week during that time (Yes, $500 a WEEK). They pay $15 an article, which adds up fast if you're industrious about it.

It's true that it's tough to get approved as a DS writer, which is the whole point -- they're not letting just anyone sling around just any phony numbers at will, which is what this blog seems to be doing.

I looked at few other sites -- Helium, Examiner -- and they WERE talking in terms of pennies per article; as for this Hub thing, I can't figure out what or how they pay; is there a number? (And if so, is it $15 per article?)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Yeah, I love it when somebody gets a bug up their butt and accuse me of making up s**t:

http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.demandstudios.co...

Read it and weep, dude. The numbers are very clear:

Traffic rank 11252

PR 5

Daily Ads Revenue $295.52

So I guess that the $15 per article they pay is charity? They're barely making enough gross from ads to pay for 14 articles a day.

So you can retract your PHONY number accusation, dude. You are just another in a long line of idiot accusers don't have a clue what you're talking about.

And as for your very last question, YEAH! For real, not illusion demandstudios money. :)


km 7 years ago

Hal -- I hate to break this to you, but my description of the DemandStudios income available to a diligent writer is accurate. Although, thanks for reminding me why DS is so picky about who it lets write. This is some of the sloppiest reporting I've ever seen.

Listen carefully: DemandStudios is a feeder site for other sites, which is why their clicks and ad revenue hardly register -- the only people who have any reason to go there are the writers. (Duh.) But those articles are being written for numerous other sites.

One of the sites that DS feeds is Ehow.com. Heard of them? Ehow has a daily pageview of more than 5 mil, according to the data site you referenced. Ehow has a net worth (according to YOUR data site) of $11.4 million, which would make it second on your list. And Ehow is just one of 14 sites that DS feeds. To get an accurate count of their income, you'd have to go through and count up all of them.

I don't have time to do that (i'm busy earning this week's $600 or so from DS), but I can tell you this: HubPages has fewer than 4 million hits and is worth barely $8 million, according to the data site you referenced (i'll put it out there, since you, for some reason, decided not to). Which means this killer site of yours has fewer hits and less income than ONE of DemandStudios' 14 sites.

My point in telling you this (other than to encourage you to be more careful about how you use & abuse data) is to encourage writers to stop letting some of these sites take advantage of them.

I notice, even in your trash talking, you STILL haven't revealed what this Hub thing pays per article -- and god knows I can't figure it out from looking at the site. Why is it so hard to give a number? Is the number embarrassing? Or is that even YOU don't really know what the number is?

$15 an article isn't a fortune -- a lot of professional writers I know scoff at it -- but at least it's open and honest. I think most of these sites make that number deliberately mysterious. As a writer, that ticks me off, and the proper response is not to work for a site that doesn't pay what your work is worth -- or at the very least, give you a clear statement of what you will get paid.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

You're just a shill for DS. Only an idiot would dispute FACTS on an acknowledged reporting website such as Websiteoutlook or Alexa with accurate and up to date data that anyone can view. What HubPages pays me and others like me is readily googleable but since you're allergic to research and facts I just expect you to continue being dense. I don't engage in debates with shills, therefore go try to push your DS spins on someone who's stupid enough to believe you.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

km, stop repeating yourself and insulting me with your baseless insinuations. State something of interest with a basis in reality or get lost. Thank you.


Nathan 7 years ago

This was an interesting and enlightening read. I do wish you had included HP in the stats though. I know you were writing to other HP users.

I have been writing for Triond. By the looks of it, that is like taking the short bus to the kiddie pool. I don't know if I'll stick around over there.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks! There are various sites where the data for HubPages can be derived, including websiteoutlook and alexa. It's all there. As you stated, this was a summary of the other sites for the comparison by Hubbers. :)


sandwichmom profile image

sandwichmom 7 years ago from Arkansas

Very enlightening- I have not written for any of those- but I am new to this.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Well, give it a shot, but remember that there are very few class acts in this online business and HubPages is one of the very few!


wsp2469 profile image

wsp2469 7 years ago from Alta Loma, Ca

I found this all very interesting. I have been told about about.com before so what you said about that site rings true. The only point I took the least exception with was your statement that you are getting paid to write here. Wouldn't you say it's more accurate to say that you get paid to advertise since you get paid nothing for your actual articles?


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

That's not the case. I signed on with hubpages as an established writer over two years ago, therefore, I do get directly compensated over and above ad earnings.


wsp2469 profile image

wsp2469 7 years ago from Alta Loma, Ca

I have a question. Just how does one sign on as an established writer here? my boss from one of my other gigs introduced me to this but I don't think she is aware of how that works.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

When I signed up it was almost two and a half years ago. I do not believe those contracts are available any longer from HubPages. Besides, HubPages management has ME now, who else do they need? (ok... ok... I was just kiddin' about being indispensable.)


tech02 profile image

tech02 7 years ago from India

Thanks Licino, really an eye opener hub.

I am just starting and was seriously considering other alternatives too, like ehow.com, associatedcontent.com, squidoo.com etc. But, after reading your hub, it seems like i need to concentrate more on Hubpages.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Especially now that HubPages has cracked the TOP 100 WEBSITES, there IS no competition! HP RULES!


sunforged profile image

sunforged 7 years ago from Sunforged.com

I write for hubpages and demand studios, associated content and a dozen others, whatever formula set DS at .12 per article is off, I believe the minimum one can make for an article is $5 and most writers aim for the $15-20 articles, there is no way the average is below $5, DS is a media buyer, they purchase writing and resell for much more Im sure, teh site is not supported by ad revenue

Alexa.com, has always been a very slanted resource, since it derives its data from the alexa toolbar, similar to a Nielsen structure for televison, mostly webmasters install teh toolbar so it doesn't create a very reliable sample of web traffic...some notable bloggers have shown their true web statistics in comparison with ALEXA Estimates in traffic and ad revenue with some very very large discrepancies between the two.

examiner.com isn't hard to be accepted into, it just has an actual application process as if you were applying for egads, a job, they even offer business cards

The about.com figures are very mysterious to me, being an about.com writer is an actual job, you get a guarantee to make 650.00 min per month for something like 4 posts..its just difficult to be accepted as a writer, they want real established experts..the application process is huge

since 650.00 is min pay in a month, i dont see how 1.74 is a possible monthly average?

I like the detailed nature of this hub and was exposed to alot of ideas and sites i should look into, but there are some wild cards in this formula that really slanted the numbers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/About.com

for example about.com is owned by the times and its ad revenue may be based off of partnerships that extend past its online presence, it has also been online since 1997 as a business, just changed its name in 99


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

The numbers are not mine. They are from the sites I've mentioned. Alexa is widely utilized as a comparative benchmark. If you want to challenge their legitimacy you can go right ahead, but that's not the point here. About.com is a strange bird in that by all rational statistics they are losing money hand over fist. Maybe they're a loss leader for the media conglomerate?


scheng1 6 years ago

Actually there are some other factors not stated. For example, Helium has the marketplace function, where writers can write and sell the articles. Plus it has the stock content sales for online or offline publishers who want the articles.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Haaaahaaaa... I'd like to see how many writers have ever sold an article on Helium for more than a pittance. I could probably count them without taking off my socks to use my toes. :)


clare 6 years ago

Very interesting information.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks!


simpleprocedure profile image

simpleprocedure 6 years ago

Thanks for all the useful information.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

You're welcome! :)


knowledgeispower profile image

knowledgeispower 6 years ago

Very interesting information on the different writing paying sites.

George

http://hubpages.com/money/making-money-online-writ...


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks.


Thief66 profile image

Thief66 6 years ago from U.S.A.

Thanks for sharing this info, very interesting to see the actual figured.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Yeah, there are some surprising stats there, but can't argue the sources! :)


C.V.Rajan profile image

C.V.Rajan 6 years ago from Kerala, India

Hal Licino,

You have said :"Haaaahaaaa... I'd like to see how many writers have ever sold an article on Helium for more than a pittance. I could probably count them without taking off my socks to use my toes. :)"

I am here to testify that I have sold 4 articles in Helium marketplace at rates $24 and $32 for 500-600 words in an article (in a range of 4 months).

I am sure there will be at least several dozens of writers in Helium who have sold happily in Helium Marketplace. Habee is one Hubber here who writes at Helium and she has sold a whopping 76 articles at Helium marketplace.

While you have been courteous in replying to my queries, I am afraid you have flared up at some of other commentators who have asked probing questions that you could not convincingly answer.

And I just can't miss the shrill voice with which you are promoting HP as the best, without giving ANY statistical data (from whatever sources you are quoting, whether genuine or doubtful/ unverifiable).

As I said in an earlier reply, it's like a 3-year old child saying my mother is the most beautiful!

CVR

"Statistics can be used to prove anything" - goes the saying.

CVR


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

I am not promoting HubPages at all. This article is intended to be used by current Hubbers to compare their earnings. I has stated repeatedly that this Hub was never intended from the start to be a catch all for the generic reader. Although I'm very happy that you were able to sell 4 articles, that's still one a month. Not exactly a living wage. Pray tell, how many did you write in total in that time? Bet it was a heck of a lot more than 4. As for Habee's sales, I'm happy for him/her/it as well but 76 over how long and how many unsold articles? You state that thousands of writers place their content on Helium, yet in Feb. '08 it was already over 100,000

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9869718-7.html?t...

...and you state yourself that "there will be at least several dozens of writers" who actually sell anything, we're still talking a mere fraction of one percent. It's just lending further credence to my statements: Helium is a site for suckers. Good luck making any money on it that exceeds a luxurious evening's dining at McD. Might as well buy scratch lottery tickets. :)


Jon 6 years ago

Great Post! I've been trying to find this kind of information for the last two hours.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks!


nearbuystore.com profile image

nearbuystore.com 6 years ago from Somewhere on the highway....

So i guess if i write 750k unique articles i will make $43,423.88 divided by 2 minus some of article clicks which aren't mine so i guess around 11k a day hehehhehhe.If i bought those articles at 5 dollars a piece it would cost me 3.75 million dollars so in 340 days (around a year) i would get my money back.Each article on about.com makes an average of 0.17 cents minus some off article clicks a day.So if i write 2000 hubs lets say like you i would be earning around $200 dollars.But that is so off the real numbers right?is it realy worth it after all :(?


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Well, you're not THAT far off. :)


kims3003 6 years ago

Excellent job!


mquee profile image

mquee 6 years ago from Columbia, SC

This is really vital information for someone new like myself. Instead of floundering around the internet and using the old "hit and miss" method, you have broken down everything for us. Thanks for some really good, down to earth info.


Kristin 6 years ago

I'm afraid I have to agree with the others who said that these statistics were somewhat off. I'm not sure about other sites, but Demand Studios doesn't really fit into the same category as Helium or Associated Content. I write Livestrong.com articles for Demand Studios at $25 a piece which add up to a decent bit of income. There have been days where I have made $300 in six hours. If DS was only bringing in $200 a day, they wouldn't be able to pay one person making that much a day, let alone the estimated 1,000 or so active writers that they have, with as many as 1/4 of them working for DS as full time writers.

While I agree with some who say that $25 for a 400 word article isn't much, it is still a heap bit more than the pennies in your statistics. Demand Studios isn't really a place to earn passive income, unless you write a couple of their revenue share articles, which make up a very small percentage of their total articles. Therefore, it doesn't really belong lumped in with passive income sites.

I haven't even spent a full work day (8 hours) working for DS this month because I had to go out of town twice, and when I've been home there have been frequent squall lines and tornado warnings coming through (Illinois). However, my earnings for DS so far this month are an even $600, $475 of which I have already been paid, $50 will be paid tomorrow, and another $75 (so far) for Tuesday. Of course, any work I do over the next couple of days will add to my Tuesday pay because they pay twice a week. In a nutshell, your statistics are off for some reason, and as far as earning potential, DS is actually halfway decent money for the time spent. Once you get used to their system, it takes 30-60 minutes to write most articles.

To be fair, there are things about DS that are less than ideal. There isn't much fun about cranking out often similar articles in an assembly line fashion all day long, which is another reason I have accomplished very little for them this month. However, for people that are able to commit to working DS like a full time job, I'm sure the earnings are quite impressive.

Not to mention that I've always gotten paid accurately and on time, and I don't know of anywhere else that pays twice a week like clockwork.

There are no actual article on DemandStudios.com itself, and therefore, there would also be next to no ad revenue. The actual DS site is for people who are applying or interested in working for DS, for people who work for them to sign into their accounts, and possibly for prospective clients or partners to inquire about their services.

Your facts are apparently bunk. Run your stats on sites like Livestrong and eHow and see what you come up with. Then again, I guess I'm just a shill, too.


scheng1 6 years ago

triond has incorporated Adsense revenue sharing now. The combined earning from Adsense and Triond are far better than many other sites.


cyberwriter profile image

cyberwriter 6 years ago from Beijing,China

what a great statistics. I wonder how did you get all those figures. It should be noted that some of these sites pay upfront as well as performance payments. So the price of these articles should not be calculated this way.


Ali 6 years ago

how we can chek hubpages earnins?


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

cyberwriter: Note that the stats are from the sources specified and allow for total income to the site, not to writers.

Ali: If you mean for yourself, just check your own account. If you mean overall, there are countless threads on the Hub Forums that deal with this! Thanks.


jasoncox83 profile image

jasoncox83 6 years ago from Ohio

Well since I can only vote this up but once, I will aid you by doing some social networking to promote the article. Yours actually will be the first time I have ever done this, I am very impressed by the amount of stats on this page...Most do not go anywhere near this extent on a single article, all I have to say is BRAVO! Very well done.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Thank you so much. I'm truly honored! :)


jasoncox83 profile image

jasoncox83 6 years ago from Ohio

Speaking Of this article, where might one get these figures from, as I would like to see some more up to date figures if possible. I would be glad to share the information I find so that you may update this hub :)....You can directly contact me through my profile if you would like.


Elfgar profile image

Elfgar 6 years ago from Poland

Thanks

Great analysis and very helpful. Thanks to you I know where to go, and where not to go.

:)


eddgrr profile image

eddgrr 6 years ago from NYC

Very informative! I didn't know about.com was a paid to write site but in terms of ranking, would those site be better to create backlinks?


DubaiWill profile image

DubaiWill 5 years ago from Wiltshire, UK

Thanks for the excellenyt info. Very useful and a great share.


Phasmatis profile image

Phasmatis 5 years ago

Great article. It seems here is the best place after all. Also great info.


mrpdg profile image

mrpdg 5 years ago

really helpful.. I kind of think its a pointless venture, certainly on a personal basis anyway. I've dipped my toes in and don't think the rewards are worth the effort.


msms profile image

msms 5 years ago

Yeah This is it! This is an article I have been searching and searching everywhere. Bat Hub pages is no where in this analysis and in conclusion you find it worth ? I do agree with this but do not know How? analytically

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