Analyzing ZeekRewards and Zeekler, is Zeek Rewards a legal business? Who is Paul Burks? Detailed Investigation here

Introduction

There are a ton of income opportunities on the Internet and all of them promise long-term legal and viable income. One of the most recent to be popular is known as "ZeekRewards", run by Paul Burks of "Rex Venture Group".

In this hub, I will go through all the publicly available information about Paul Burks, Rex Venture Group, and Zeekler / Zeek Rewards. I will separate the facts from the analysis, and detail the source of information. This is so you can make up your own mind.

I am not going to tell you what to think. In fact, I question anyone who want you to think a certain way, on why they would want to do so. And I would suggest you think about why would any one want you to think a particular way, instead of giving you information so you can make up your own mind.

Instead, I am going to pose a couple questions that you *should* have already asked BEFORE you joined (and if you already joined, it's not too late to ask now...)

I am not going to sugarcoat the analysis as I am NOT trying to sell you anything. If this comes across as "negative", consider how much "positive" propaganda you have been exposed to , and how much information they did NOT tell you. Think about that as you read through this hub.

NOTE: This hub is in chronological order. The most recent updates are at the very end.

Latest updates:

  • 30-OCT-2012 Receiver sent out 1200 subpoenas in preparation of clawbacks from people who benefited from this Ponzi scheme
  • 27-SEP-2012 Receiver announced he had secured over 300 million that will be returned to victims, will continue to do his job
  • 27-AUG-2012 Receiver appointed by court to shut down Zeek and return money to victims
  • 17-AUG-2012 ZEEK REWARDS SHUT DOWN BY SEC
  • 04-AUG-2012 ZeekRewards parent company claims to have contact North Carolina credit union and "shut down misinformation" at the source
  • 03-AUG-2012 Upcoming "qualifiers" and Zeebates worries affiliates
  • 02-AUG-2012 Rex Venture Group / ZeekRewards BBB rating back to F
  • 02-AUG-2012 Reports surface about North Carolina Credit Union warning members about Zeek being possibly fraudulent
  • 02-AUG-2012 Keith Laggos, MLM consultant to ZeekRewards, revealed he is an affiliate, as well as consulting for ZeekRewards, AND published favorable articles about it on his magazine. After reveal, he no longer consulted for ZeekRewards, claimed credit for pushing payment solutions offshore, predicted FTC will hit Zeek in less than a year
  • 27-JUL-2012 Consultant who claimed to work for Zeek parent company sent takedown notice and knocked this hub offline, but did not follow up with details on how this hub is violating trademarks and libel.
  • 27-JUL-2012 Randy Schroeder, MLM veteran and head of big MLM, calls ZeekRewards a Ponzi scheme, predicts swift end and grief to any one who joined

About Zeekler

According to a Zeek "training" website, Zeekler started its life in March 2010 as "FSCAuction". FSC was a part of Rex Venture Group called "Free Store Club". In June the auction was renamed Zeekler, and for a few months, it was also known as a different auction under Rex Venture Group called MyBidShack, but was made a separate auction in December 2010.

NPros, however, had a different story. It claimed that Zeekler didn't start until they acquired a Georgia Penny Auctioneer called iTicketBid, in September 2010. iTicketBid had a history of failing to deliver promised items. Georgia had ruled that penny auctions must be licensed by the state auction commission and drove "Wavee" out of business as of July 2010.

It seems the truth is a combination of the two: Rex Venture Group did start FSCAuctions in April 2010 (some remnants can still be found on Facebook and such via Google search), FSC Auctions was renamed Zeekler in June 2010, and some time after that it acquired or merged with MyBidShack. For a while both are living together, but with different comp plans. Zeekler bought iTicketBid in September 2010 and merged it into Zeekler. In December 2010 the two separate websites (Zeekler and MyBidShack) are merged again with a new affiliate plan and relaunched as merely Zeekler. MyBidShack remained active but is a portal into Zeekler.

If you search MyBidShack's DNS you'll see its registrar is indeed Zeekler, handled by Paul Burks, and shares same address as Zeekler / ZeekRewards. What's really interesting is MyBidShack was owned in early 2011 by Darryl Douglas, who's now one of the top three at Zeekler.

UPDATE: North Carolina Auctioneer Board confirms that Rex Venture Group holds Auction Firm license #9401, issued in March 2012. Zeekler operated for almost TWO full year without obtaining the proper auction license.


MyBidShack was owned by Darryl Douglas, now one of top three at Zeekler
MyBidShack was owned by Darryl Douglas, now one of top three at Zeekler

About ZeekRewards

ZeekRewards claims to be a "rewards program" for Zeekler, a "penny auction" website where bidders purchase bids, to be spent on items. Zeekler / ZeekRewards is a part of Rex Venture Group, which is run by Paul Burks, who has a pretty long history in MLM, spanning over 14 years as of early 2012. However, his history was hardly spotless. The current Better Business Bureau rating for Rex Venture Group is "F", or FAIL (as of 07-MAY-2012). This was changed to "No Rating" as of 14-JUL-2012, but a recheck at 01-AUG-2012 shows it's back to F again.

NOTE: Zeekler has NOT been in business for 14-15 years. Rex Venture Group has been in business for 14-15 years. Zeekler name was only used since June 2010, and ZeekRewards since 2011.


What is Zeekler?

Zeekler is a penny auction site, where people pay for bids (each of which cost about a dollar or less), which they submit for various items up for bidding, using one bid at a time. The last person to get a bid in "wins" the item. Then they can pay for the item and have it shipped to them, or choose to "cash out" the item and receive the difference between the MSRP and the "bid price".

Here's a sample auction: Item for bid is a cheap Android tablet with MSRP of $100. A "premier 5" auction means you need to use up 5 bids to start bidding. Each bid raises the cost of the item by 1 penny. Let' say you win the item at 12.50 (being the last person to submit a bid), which would suggest that 1250 bids had been submitted by various bidders, each of whom also paid extra 5 bids to join the process. You likely spent 200 bids or more to win (probably closer to 400). As the winner, you can then pay $12.50, and shipping, and the item will reach you in a few weeks.

How much can Zeekler clear? Each bid is 65 cents or so. Assuming there are 100 bidders, 1250 bids would net $812.5 on bids alone, plus another 5 bids per bidder (it's a premier 5 auction) which would add 325. Then there's $12.50 for the item itself. Total revenue for one item: $1150. This is not counting the cost of running the whole thing or the cost of the item, of course. (Or shipping and handling)

Let's assume you spend 200 bids to win this item (a bit on the low side if total bids exceed 1000), that's $130, plus $12.50 for the item, plus $10 in shipping and handling... You actually paid $152.50 for an item with MSRP of $100, even though you "felt" you paid only 12.50. And we are using optimistic numbers (rather minimal number of bids). This is so dangerous, the Federal Trade Commission actually put out a consumer alert specifically warning all people about penny auctions.

There are some anomalous patterns. Some people are using ridiculous amount of bids, such as over 1400 bids (valued at approximately $910) for $100 cash. And that's just ONE PERSON, not overall number of bids (that's believed to be over 5400 bids) That makes absolutely no sense from the bidder's POV. This leads to some to suspect that there be shill bidding bots just to bid up the prices, but there is no proof.


What is Zeek Rewards?

ZeekRewards is the "invitation only advertising division" of Zeekler. It was started in late 2010 (perhaps as late as January 2011).

ZeekRewards itself does NOT make money, based on the official explanation. Members are simply given a share of the profits (from Zeekler) for doing some promotions and putting money INTO the system by purchasing and "giving away" bids, and for NOT taking profits out of the system.

ZeekReward members do need to pay a monthly subscription fee. There are "free affiliates", but they are not eligible for the profit sharing.


ZeekRewards Compensation Plan

In any income opportunity, you perform some activities for the company, and in return, you get paid for performing that activity. This is called the compensation plan, and determines the viability and the legality of the business.

Regarding ZeekRewards, you get paid six different ways, which is listed on their website under "Get Paid". Instead of regurgitating their verbiage, I'll just tell you the bottom line:

  • ZAP Commission -- get paid when you refer people who buy "bid packs"
  • Retail Store -- sell stuff from your "retail store" and pocket profits
  • Retail Points Pool (previously known as Profit pool ) -- post ads elsewhere, one a day, and make sure you have people (who paid to join) under you (see EDIT below), "give away" the bids to select customers, and you can get a share of the "retail points pool" (described as 50% of daily revenue or profit).

    EDIT: The requirement "have people under you" was removed in March 2012. Thanks to Georgi for spotting this mistake.
  • Retail subscription -- get commission off people who "subscribed" to Zeek (i.e joined as affiliate)
  • Shopping Daisy -- earn commission by giving away this shopping browser toolbar (also recruits people, but at least it cost nothing)
  • Matrix Commission -- you also get paid for people under you... who paid into the system by buying bids either with their own money, or with proceeds obtained from Retail Points Pool share as explained above.

There are no statistics or chart that explains how much an average affiliate earned in the past from each of the six ways to earn. Out of the six ways to earn, four involves recruiting people, instead of selling things. The "income disclosure statement" released in March 2012 does not shed any light on this situation. However, the "median" earning of an affiliate, according to their 2011 Income Disclosure Statement, is ZERO. Though they claim to have 15000 "active" affiliates in the US, and paid out over 58.5 million.

Based on study of various forum postings, people are mainly interested in the "retail points pool", which uses a very peculiar system to calculate how much profit you can "share", which we will explain in the next section. But basically, your "share" of the profit is mainly dependent on how much money you have spent into the system and how long you are keeping it in and NOT taking it out.

(Thanks to Joe for nitpicking about "penny auction" vs. "reverse auction")

Q: Is ZeekRewards rewarding affiliates for the work they did, or for the amount of money they spent on Zeek? (The former is a job, the latter is an investment.)


Profit Sharing... how does it work?

In ZeekRewards, to "share" in the profit pool, you need to give away at least 10 bids (i.e. you have to buy them first), and post an ad every 24 hours. You, of course, need to be a paying affiliate as well. Prior to a major change in early 2012, you were required to have at least two paying affiliates under you (silver, gold, or diamond, $10, $50, or $99 per month respectively) as well. This was removed.

For every bid you buy and give away, you earn one "VIP ProfitPoint" in your pool. At the end of every day, ZeekRewards will declare a profit share, which averages about 1.4%.

Let us assume you had previously purchased 1000 bids, and thus, gained 1000 VIP points. 1.4% of 1000 is 14, so that's your "profit share" of that day, $14. You can choose to spend all $14 on repurchase of bids, which is added to your total (so you now own 1014 points). Or you can choose 100% cashout, which means you will receive 14 dollars and $14 is added to your cash balance. Or you can do a mix of whatever proportion you wish between repurchase and cash out.

Each point has a life of 90 days, including the points earned on "profit share". If you bought 1000 bids, and got 1000 points, at end of day 1 you will have 1014 points, 1000 of which expires in 89 days, and 14 expires in 90 days (if you choose full repurchase). In the meanwhile your points are entitling you to additional shares of the profit.

The payment is usually sent by check, with a lag of 15 days plus transit time. Though ZeekRewards made a push to use payment processor such as AlertPay and Solidtrust Pay starting 2012. Zeek have also added NxPay. All three have continued to experience glitches for many months, as of end of July 2012 (see updates below).

NOTE: Free affiliates can get "bonus points", which is basically a way for your points to remain when you choose to convert your points into VIP points by upgrading your membership later.

Q: Where does the profit come from? Do they come from the customers you supposedly will recruit? Or are they from the bids YOU PURCHASED?


Is ZeekRewards paying out too much money?

According to ZeekRewards, the daily profit share is calculated by a proprietary formula using figures that are business secrets and will NEVER be released. However, the number is known to vary from 0.9% all the way to 2.0%, with an average of 1.4% or 1.5%. To put it into perspective, a noted scam prosecuted by the SEC and US Secret Service, "Ad Surf Daily", offered "rebate" of 1% on weekdays and 0.5% on weekends.

Furthermore, in April, after they announced banning of several countries (see below), there were several outages of Zeekler for up to 14 hours. Yet the profit share for the outage days remain virtually unchanged. Many critics have questioned how is this "profit share" actually calculated. Burks have previously stated that this formula is a proprietary business secret and will never be revealed. Critics on multiple websites charged that it is far more likely that Burks simply made up the numbers in his head without regard to reality.

Many members and critics have constructed spreadsheets to model theoretical returns based on investment amount, profit share percentages, reinvestment amount, and so on. Models show that if the "profit share" is larger than 1.1% 100% reinvestment would just barely offset any expiring points. Thus, one can withdraw "profit" as long as the average profit share exceed 1.1%.

Q: How is Zeek generating well beyond 1.1% profit based on total amount of VIP Profit points, which is likely in the TENS OF MILLIONS nowadays?

Based on the ZeekRewards 2011 Income Disclosure Statement, using number of affiliates at each level, and average income of such users, the total payout to members in 2011 is estimated to be 58.5 million dollars. Which comes out to be $160,000 profit PER DAY shared.

UPDATE: In the end of May 2012, ZeekReward put in one day profit share of 8.9%, then immediately posted a correction that they had a "manual decimal point misplacement". This is the full quote from their news website:

A manual decimal placement error occurred tonight when starting the RPP. Adjustments will be made to all accounts affected shortly. All unaffected accounts will run normally. Thanks, Zeek.

Clearly, the daily profit share is NOT calculated, but rather, MANUALLY ENTERED. How else can they mistakenly typed in 8.9% instead 0.89%?

Q: Do you believe that ZeekRewards, holding only a few hundred auctions a day, is earning over $320,000 (and increasing) per day, probably well over 400,000 DAILY now? (Remember, they share "up to 50% of daily profit") And can consistently earn grow such to outpace point growth in the foreseeable future?


Compliance Enforcement

ZeekRewards started operating in 2011, and at one time promised an ROI (return on investment) of guaranteed 125%. This was advertised all over the Internet by its affiliates. That all changed in Early 2012, when ZeekRewards hired a lawyer and a MLM consultant (among several other people) to make sure their business is compliant with all applicable laws. After a few weeks, policy update was pushed out to all affiliates:

STOP REFERRING TO ZEEKREWARDS AS INVESTMENT IMMEDIATELY

All US based members are required to pay $10 for a "compliance package" and confirm that they understand these limitations, or their membership will be terminated immediately.

There are other misc changes, but that is the one that affected the most members. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of Youtube videos and websites, articles, and postings, advertising ZeekRewards disappeared almost overnight.

ZeekRewards hired several prominent lawyers and attorneys as well as MLM expert Laggos to check for compliance. One such lawyer is Gerald Nehra of Nehra and Waak. Mr. Nehra is an MLM expert, having served as head of Amway's legal division for 9 years before making it his primary business as both consultant and MLM attorney and is well known in the industry. However, Gerald Nehra was also known for filing an affidavit (after checking Ad Surf Daily for compliance) telling a Federal Court that "Ad Surf Daily" is NOT a Ponzi scheme, something the Federal Court disagreed with. Ad Surf Daily was sued and shut down by FTC in 2008 and 55 million dollars forfeited and refunded to participants in 2011.

UPDATE: It has been brought to my attention that MLM Expert Keith Laggos, who was hired by Zeek as consultant, also filed an amicus brief with the court telling the judge that ASD is NOT a Ponzi. Clearly, he was wrong as well. Please also see news update at the end when Laggos was caught promoting something else and promptly no longer consults for Zeek.

UPDATE: Compliance package was finally published as of 07-MAY-2012, and initial reaction by members is mixed, as it is a generic MLM compliance course, NOT customized for Zeekrewards. It appears to be the same generic compliance course at mlmcompliancevt.com.

Q: What exactly was the MLM compliance course supposed to teach? That ZeekRewards is not an investment? The actual business model determines whether the business is an investment with application of the Howey test. So is the compliance course meant to correct a misunderstanding by the affiliates, or to propagate a mirage?


International Controversy

In April 2012, ZeekRewards abruptly terminated many international affiliates. To date, ZeekRewards refused to list the countries that are affected, or how many affiliates were affected. However, by comparing the country list before and after the change, six countries were found to be absent in the latter version. ZeekRewards have not confirmed the list of banned countries, nor explained why this was done.

Speculations were rampant, with at least one MLM supporter speculating that this had to do with FTC Warning about Penny Auctions (except this makes no sense as FTC is an American agency dealing with American law, so why ban international affiliates?) One Zeekreward support response claimed this is due to actions / policies from those countries, NOT ZeekRewards. Members in those countries will be only refunded their monthly membership fees and initial bid purchases. All VIP points earned are lost.

One week later, on ZeekRewardNews, Paul Burks, CEO, claimed that countries that were banned were done to comply with US Department of Treasury, Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC) who maintains a list of sanctions. Burks only referred to "banned countries" and offered no specifics.

Request to OFAC for comment and study of OFAC list of sanctions shows that there are currently NO sanctions against those six countries that would cause blanket ban of those six countries.

ZeekRewards currently has no comment or clarifications, leading to outcry among other international affiliates, both in and out of the affected countries. There are also reports on how the company is only using a free Gmail address to process refunds, and is very slow or just flat out not responding to queries. This however, cannot be confirmed. Many of those complaining from the affected countries have been members for over a year and is believed to have significant VIP point balances.

Q: Clearly the Paul Burks explanation is NOT CONSISTENT WITH FACTS. So why was it offered? What was the REAL story?


Problem with Profit Sharing System

In a true business where you work for the money, your compensation should depend on how hard you work and what results you were able to achieve with that work.

In Zeek Rewards, the profit sharing system encourages people who have very low balance to NOT withdrawn any money, while people who have large point balances can withdraw plenty of money. In other words, you are NOT being rewarded for the amount of work you do, but for amount of money you put into the system and keeping it there, and for recruiting other people who do the same.

Assuming 1.5% compound daily, and 100% repurchase, 100 points will become 244 points in 60 days. However, this is all "virtual growth". No actual money has reached your pocket. Instead, you have paid in at least 100+10+10 dollars into the system. If you spend the next 30 days (before the first 100 points expire) doing 100% withdrawal, you can draw about 3.5 dollars per day (steadily decreasing). which should mean you will make back your $100 and a bit more so it's a zero-sum game. If you play a longer term game you may actually make some money.

This points to three fundamental problems:

  1. They say this is not an investment, when it works just like an investment
  2. Business model makes no sense, as ZeekReward is a pure loss center with no gain (it pays out money, but has no income to match, as it needs to take profit from Zeekler)
  3. People who put in a little money gains virtually nothing, people who put in a lot of money (and allow the money to compound for more than 90 days) gains LOTS of money

First problem... this very much FEELS like an investment, despite every attempt by it to NOT refer to itself as an investment. In fact, in February and March 2012, the new compliance team at ZeekRewards had a crackdown on all affiliates forcing them to take down any mention of ZeekRewards as "investment". They even formed a volunteer "Zeek Squad" to go after non-compliant affiliates.

Second problem... this business model makes no sense. ZeekRewards, if it is indeed paying out a ton of $$$ to the affiliates, what are they GETTING out of the affiliates? There's a) membership fees, b) posting of ads, and c) recruitment. All three have problems.

If you pay to join a program, then get paid by recruiting other people who also pay to join, what you have is a pyramid scheme. This is very clear from FTC past rulings. (See FTC vs. Koscot,) Having a free affiliate level is irrelevant.

Paying people to post ads is fine, but why would Zeek pay someone who had more points (i.e. put more money into the system) more money, when he or she did the SAME amount of work as someone who had less points? People who have 10000 points are paid 100 times more than people who have 100 points, who did the same work. The difference is how much money they paid into the system, NOT what they did for the company. Clearly, the ad placement is NOT the real benefit to ZeekRewards.

Finally, if you study the system, you will realize that the most "points" an affiliate has, the more that affiliate benefits. And how *do* you get more points? by doing two things:

  • Put money into the system (buy bids for giveaway)
  • Keep the money in system (repurchase bids as much as possible), take nothing out

The more you do these things, the better you are supposedly rewarded through this "profit share" thing. This is an investment. So why would they insist it is NOT an investment? What sort of investment that only encourages people to keep putting money IN, and never take any out?

At least one member speculated that this profit sharing is simply for placing advertisements. However, this makes no sense. The going rate for paying someone to post ads on Craigslist and such is a mere 50 cents per ad. ZeekRewards does NOT publish total paid out but the rate itself is dependent on how many points you have. If you only have 10 points, then you are paid pennies. If you have 10000 points, you are paid 150. dollars (assuming 1.5% profit share). Both for doing THE SAME WORK DAILY.

Furthermore, in the international controversy above, the international members, many of whom have been with ZeekRewards for over a year, is ONLY getting back the money they put in (monthly fees and bids purchased). All the work done during that year? Completely worthless.

When you add the two facts together, conclusion is inevitable: ZeekRewards is NOT after your work, but is ONLY AFTER YOUR MONEY. Work is an afterthought.

Furthermore, those who were already in, and have amassed a ton of VIP points, will be getting most of the profit. Late joiners are getting virtually nothing.

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Q: Why would they say they are not an investment, when they really want your money?


Is ZeekRewards an Investment?

In the US, it is illegal to offer up investment contracts for sale to the public without registration with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), a federal financial regulatory agency. Many companies, including Ponzi schemes, were investigated by the SEC and charged with selling "unregistered securities", and for disguising the fact that they are doing so. The fact that ZeekRewards started this "compliance movement" in February 2012 to deliberate stop referring itself as an investment would suggest it could be construed as an investment contract in some circumstances. Is it really an investment contract though?

According to American University's course on financial regulations (PDF file), the Federal test on what is a "financial contract" has four elements (established in SEC vs. Howey, also known as the "Howey Test"):

  1. investment of money
  2. in a common enterprise
  3. w/ expectation of profits
  4. solely from the efforts of others

As you buy bid from Zeek, trade it for VIP Profitpoints, then expect profit share, it appears that Zeekrewards at least conforms to elements 1, 2, and 3. So the main question is element 4... Does the additional requirements, such as "post one ad per day" negate element 4?

While a strict interpretation of the word "solely" would appear to support the position that the additional requirements ZeekRewards would mean it is NOT an investment contract, historically the Federal Courts have ruled that "solely" is interpreted rather loosely. Generally speaking, element 4 is a test on how much control do the participant have over day-to-day operations.

The fourth element of the Howey test, “to be derived solely from the efforts of others,” requires an examination into the level of control retained by the investor. Courts will examine the investor’s involvement in the day-to-day operations or management decisions of the business enterprise to determine whether the investment depends solely on the efforts of others. Here, the courts are more interested in substance over form.
http://businesslaw.ncbar.org/newsletters/nbinov2010/security.aspx

Example 1: In the case SEC vs. Glenn Turner Enterprises, Turner argued that participant have to recruit in order to get a return, thus the return is NOT "solely" from efforts of other. The court rejected the argument. The "efforts" in element 4 are regarded as essential managerial decisions that affects the success of the scheme, and recruiting is NOT such a decision.

Example 2: In the case SEC vs. Ad Surf Daily, Boudwin, head of ASD, and his lawyer argued that because they require participants to click on ads, to get the profits, the return is NOT "solely" from the efforts of others. The court rejected the argument for the same reason.

Is posting of ads "critical operation" required for success or failure of Zeekler and Zeekrewards? Logically the answer is "no".

As the additional requirements does NOT defeat element 4 "effort of others", Zeekler fits all four elements of "investment contract" and "securities", and thus, ZeekRewards may in fact be guilty of selling unregistered securities.

ZeekRewards supposedly had hired former-SEC lawyers for compliance, thus, observation above is only valid for the current business model, as of April 2012. If they change their business model, a new analysis will be performed.

Q: Why would ZeekRewards insist they are not an investment, even hired lawyers and consultants teaching so, when they are, according to Federal definition, an investment?


Is ZeekRewards a Ponzi Scheme?

Many people have wondered whether ZeekRewards is a Ponzi scheme, as it is paying out almost usurious rates (1.5% daily for 90 days!) To answer that, we need to first define what exactly is a Ponzi scheme.

“A ‘Ponzi scheme’ typically describes a scheme where earlier investors are paid from the investments of more recent investors rather than from any underlying business concern, until the scheme ceases to attract new investors and the pyramid collapses.” Eberhard v. Marcu, 530 F.3d 122, 132 n.7 (2d Cir. 2008)

Noted MLM Attorney Gerald Nehra (one of those hired by ZeekRewards for compliance) used the following three criterias in his expert testimony given in the Ad Surf Daily case.

  1. the promise of a return on investment to induce the participant to put money into the program;
  2. the lack of any underlying legitimate product or service or asset sufficient to sustain the promised payouts; and
  3. the necessity of a continuing flow of new investors/participants to fund the payouts

Do these three criteria fit ZeekRewards?

A1. Does Zeek Rewards promise return on investment? Before 2012 they sure did, when Zeek Rewards actually guaranteed 125% ROI (which, incidentally, is also the number used in Ad Surf Daily) After the compliance review, the word "investment" disappeared from almost all advertising. However, the fundamental business model did not change. You put money in to buy bids, which you give them away to trade for VIP points, and you earn return on VIP points. Thus, it is still behaving like an investment.

Furthermore, analysis (see above "Is Zeekrewards an investment?") shows that ZeekRewards conforms to the 4-element "Howey test" that determines whether something can be considered an "investment contract". A simple disclaimer "not an investment" may not be sufficient to stop an SEC investigation.

A2. Does Zeek Rewards have an underlying product that is legitimate? Or merely fraudulent disguise? DEBATABLE. Zeekler does have a legitimate product: bids. You can buy bids to be spent on the "penny auctions". Indeed, in a different paper, Mr. Nehra suggested that the product must have "intrinsic value" that people would buy it for its own sake, instead of just to participate.

However, affiliates don't buy bids for the bids. They buy GIVEAWAY bids (not retail bids) to get VIP points, and returns are earned on VIP points, not bids. This is Thus, people who join ZeekRewards are NOT after the bids for their intrinsic value. That the bids can be used in penny auctions is completely incidental for the participants. Indeed, the official story is that the bids are "given away".

A3. Does Zeek Rewards require continuous influx of new members to provide payout to old members? DEBATABLE People would be buying bids in hopes of winning items, which would give Zeekler a profit to be shared with members of ZeekRewards. However, people are using bids very strangely. The cases where people used like 1400 bids (worth $900) to win $100 in cash are actually quite frequent. People who use bids to actually bid would not do that (makes no sense). However, people who don't actually need the bids would do that, as they are not after winning the item, but merely to get rid of the bids so they can buy more, trade them for VIP points, and get the return from the VIP points. The real question is, are there enough RETAIL customers who buy bids to provide that much profit to the ZeekRewards affiliates? Or are the ZeekRewards affiliates generating the profits themselves by buying those giveaway bids, thus paying themselves?

Mr. Nehra explained in his affidavit and testimony that there needs to be a dividing line between "members" and "customers", and a Ponzi would have very little distinction between members and customers. Basically, the members are paying each other, instead of sharing "profits" from customers, and thus, require continual influx of new members, not customers.

Zeekrewards does NOT publish statistics on how many paying customers (who only buy bids) that are NOT members of ZeekRewards.. Thus, it is impossible to say whether Zeekler actually have significant number of real customers providing real profit to be shared among the ZeekReward members, instead of just ZeekReward members putting money into the system as bids which is transferred to older members (those with more VIP points). However, the anomalous bid behavior would seem to indicate that these bidders are NOT customers (nobody's THAT stupid), but rather members or shill accounts controlled by members.

In all Ponzi schemes, any sort of withdrawal is discouraged, and all participants are encouraged to "roll over" their gains as "reinvestment" to keep the money in the system instead of taking it out. ZeekRewards has a built-in mechanism of "90 day expiration" to encourage you to keep the money in for at least 60 days, and preferably longer. Furthermore, it recommends 80/20 repurchase, thus keeping 80% of the payout in the system. That is same as rollover.

Furthermore, Ponzi schemes have three more characteristics: abnormally consistent returns, secrecy, and bogus product/business. ZeekRewards has the abnormally consistent returns and secrecy (as explained above), and its product is a bit on the iffy side, due to its "dual use' capability. So it has 2.5 out of 3 signs.

There is no proof that there are significant number of people actually buy retail bids when compared to the number of bids affiliates bought, and continue to buy EVERY DAY as repurchase, thus generating the profits in Zeekler that are being shared by ZeekRewards. Affiliates buy the bids to "play", i.e. share in the profits, but as it's the bids that generates the profits (and repurchase of more bids daily), the affiliates are essentially paying themselves by buying bids and generating the profits to be shared, then share the profits. That makes it a Ponzi scheme.

It is also very interesting to note that ZeekRewards is heavily populated by refugees from a Ponzi scheme called "Ad Surf Daily" ran by Andy Bowdoin. Among publicly identified members that belonged to both are listed below.

  • Terralyn Hoy
  • Todd Disner
  • Dwight Owen Schweitzer
  • Jerry Napier
  • Trudy Gilmond

Disner and Schweitzer have filed lawsuit against the Federal government for prosecuting the ASD Ponzi scheme, claiming wrongful prosecution and various other malfeasance. The others have been identified as top earners at Zeek by ZeekRewards, and/or acting as "employees" for Zeek in online forums and/or operate their own websites touting Zeek.

One more item of note: Dawn Wright-Olivares, CMO of Zeek, is an affiliate by the handle of HippieDiva. It is unknown how many VIP points does she have, but she's been there since the beginning.

-----

Q: Why does ZeekRewards look like a Ponzi scheme from various angles?

Q: What are the various elements, like bids, profit share, and so on? Are they genuine profit sharing mechanisms, or just obfuscation and disguise?

Q: Why does ZeekRewards look so much like Ad Surf Daily, a convicted Ponzi scheme?


Any other Zeekreward "problems"?

There may be additional problems with Zeekrewards.

ZeekRewards may be an illegal lottery

As mentioned previously, some Zeekler penny auctions are for $100 cash. This raises potential legal liabilities as it could be considered an "illegal lottery". In the US, only governments can run lotteries where you pay for a chance to win. Private lotteries are illegal.

What is considered a lottery? Three elements:

  1. Prizes
  2. Winners Chosen by Chance
  3. Consideration

So far, the penny auction genre, where you buy bids to play, have not been challenged in court to be a lottery, as they contend that winners are NOT chosen by chance, as one must use some sort of a skill to determine whether to submit a bid or not for the item. However, with automated bidding, does such a skill actually exist? Can you even say that someone spending 1410 bids (at $0.65 each) for $100 cash actually have any skill in bidding?

Keep in mind that states have shut down saving plans that has a lottery attached to it (it's a "no loss lottery", where you keep the money you play, as you only earn less interest), even though it seems to be a great solution to solve the low savings rate of Americans. What will they do to penny auctions, if it ever attracts their attention?

Q: Penny auctions are legal, but rather dangerous, according to the FTC. However, is auctioning off money legal?


Zeekler Bids as Business Expense may not be the whole story

ZeekRewards got Kaplan, the tax advisor, to say that for those who bought bids and gave them away, the bids may be tax deductible. While that may be true, how do you report those VIP points that you get when you gave away the bids? Are they income? Asset? Other?

They are not asset as they are worth nothing in themselves. You can't trade them for money. It's just a number somewhere in Zeek's computer system.

They are not income as you haven't actually received any money. It's not dividend or interest as they claim it's "not an investment".

If you don't report them, then you got a huge net loss and that may trigger an audit.

So what do you report it as?

ZeekRewards interview with tax expert Howard Kaplan gave a VERY confusing answer:

Q: I understand that I will receive a 1099 for VIP bids on a “Constructive Receipt.” Therefore, I should be able to deduct from my 1099 the points that expire as an expense…Correct?
A: Assuming that you operate as a sole proprietorship, your Zeek business is reportable on Schedule C. See Part I, line 2.

A form "1099" is prepared by a business to "contractors and non-employees" as proof of income. A "constructive receipt" is a form of income that has not been actually received, but still must be reported, such as stock options. The answer seem to IMPLY that whatever was asked is true: VIP Bids are considered income. However, it is not VIP Bids that are income, but "profit share" per day.

A theoretical example, assuming 100 VIP bid purchase on January 1, 80% reinvestment, 1.4% average profit share, show that at end of the year, the pool ended up with over 5700 profit share (only 1100 is in cash), and over 2500 points "expired". So what do you report as income, and what as expenses, and what as other?

Profit of 5700 is obviously income, even though you only received 1100 in cash, having reinvested the rest.

Membership fees are obviously expense (10 per month is 120)

What about... expired points, as in the Q&A?

Checking the IRS documentation shows there is no listing for "line 2" on official IRS instructions for Schedule C on how it should be filled out. Search of IRS website shows that there is a "guidance" that line 2 is not to be used except in case of "returns and allowances". Searching the IRS website revealed that "returns and allowances" are only used for cost of rebates and returns off sales price of actual products. As VIP Bids are NOT products sold by affiliate for revenue, it does not seem appropriate to list "expired points" on line 2 of Schedule C at all as "allowances" to be discounted off your income. In this scenario, you only bought 100 bids. You can't really deduct 2500. So where does the expired points go, if you can't count it under "allowances", and it's not an expense?

Also, are you really coming out ahead if you have only received 1100, but have to report income on 5700? Assuming your income bracket is 25%, your taxes on 5700 is 1425... which is MORE than the money you actually pocketed (1100).

Even if you deduct the 2500 expired points (assuming your deduction is allowed, which we don't know yet), so your "net income" is 3200, tax is $800, so your "net" income is merely $300 (after tax). You paid tax on $3200, even though you only got $1100 into your pocket. If your tax bracket is higher, this scenario will be even worse.

Some ZeekRewards affiliates want to deduct ALL bid purchases, including "reinvestments" as business expense. This makes a little more sense. Using the same numbers as above, 5700 points gained in the year, 1100 in cash, and 4600 as reinvestment/ bids repurchase. So you are claiming the business "made" 5700 but "expenses" are 4600 for "net" profit of 1100, for tax liability of 275 (25% tax bracket)

There is one more possibility: gift expenses. However, gift expenses do not apply to "new" customers, and furthermore, gift expense deductions are limited to $25 PER PERSON. If you can't prove how many individuals were your bids given to, your deduction may not be allowed. And if majority of your business expense consists of gift deductions, which exceeds your income, you will likely trigger an audit.

Seems your best bet is with "business expense" deduction. So what do you do with the 2500 expired points? If you deduct *that* as well, you end up with -1400 net income, even though you actually pocketed 1100. Clearly, that can't be right. Apparently, the 2500 expired points cannot be deducted. It is simply lost.

IRS rules are clear: there are "purchases", and there are "expenses". The "official" line from Zeekrewards is that the bids you purchases are "expenses" because they are given away as promotion and thus counts as direct business expense. That would go on line 8 of your tax return as expenses. Remember, get documentation in case you got audited.

Q: Why was the tax advice so confusing? Why can't Zeek's tax expert just give clear advice on what is deductible and what isn't?


Analyzing Zeekreward 2011 Income Disclosure Statement

In March 2011 ZeekRewards published "income disclosure statement" for 2011, and some very interesting numbers emerged. For compliance reasons, I am not allowed to link to it, but it is easily found if you search for "ZeekRewards Income Disclosure Statement" on Google. Here are some highlights for 2011

  • Total number of active members is 15318
  • Calculating the total income by their average revealed total payout to be $58.5 million
  • Average daily payout is $160000 to all members (above divide by 365)
  • As ZeekRewards pay out half of profit, so total profit is 320000 DAILY
  • 15318 is 23.99% of total members, so total members is 63852
  • average payout per member turns out to be roughly $170
  • Yet the highest paid affiliate earned 700000 (yes, that's seven hundred thousand dollars)
  • Zeek claims to give out HALF their profit to members, so Zeek gross annual profit is 117 million

While these numbers are no doubt impressive (perhaps somewhat less impressive than you suspect), there are some anomalies.

  • ZeekRewards doesn't act like a company that EARNED 58 million in 2011. Website problems, auction problems, server outages, and so on are quite frequent. Customer service had been described by some as atrocious.
  • This *huge* gap between lowest paid (zero) and highest paid (700000) affiliates would suggest that unless you have a HUGE network of downlines and/or huge number of VIP points, you have little chance of earning huge income in ZR. Helping ZR to sell bids actually will NOT make you rich.
  • Do you really believe they are making $320,000 daily in gross profit?
  • Roughly 75% of members are not "active", which may indicate members who joined then quit. This would suggest a huge 'churn' rate, as people are quitting to be replaced by fresh members (and their bid purchases).

Q: The "average" income per affiliate for 2011 is $170 for ENTIRE YEAR... So why are so many people claiming they made "thousands"? Where are the rest of them?

Q: If those people quit, what made these people joined, then stopped participating (and thus considered not "active")? Posting one ad per day can't be hard work...

Q: Will ZeekRewards continue to post great profits (probably over 400000 DAILY now), as other penny auctions websites are reaching the US?


End of May Banking Controversy

During the Memorial Day Weekend (end of May 2012), ZeekRewards made an announcement urges all affiliates to deposit their checks as they are shifting banks. And any checks NOT deposited by June 1st, 2012 is considered VOID. The new bank was never named.

There any explanation on why they can't leave enough money to cover the checks.

A later update claimed the credit card processor is in Hong Kong. It is also not named. And that all affiliates will be paid into their eWallets, not checks. While there was talk that ZR was going to go to "eWallets" back in March 2012, the "why" was never mentioned.

This lead to rampant speculation among the affiliates, as well as many statements from other affiliates that offered no answers other than "trust in Zeek". Questions about what bank is Zeek using was often shouted down by other affiliates with the rhetoric: "Why do you want to know? Do you want to call them about Zeek? Call Zeek if you want to ask questions about Zeek!" See screenshot of support forum below.

The "official" reason offered by ZeekRewards is that their existing two banks cannot handle them. Critics of ZeekRewards point out there are plenty of other US banks in North Carolina that CAN handle any sort of reasonable transactions, and speculated that the reason to move payment processor out of the country is to avoid US law, much like Full Tilt Poker Ponzi scheme did until they were shut down in 2011. The critics also speculated that perhaps ZeekRewards was declared PNG by the two banks it had used, and this "cannot handle" is merely PR spin, but this had no proof and thus cannot be considered reliable. However, it does explain why Zeek cannot leave enough money in the account to cover the checks.

Q: Why is Zeek so vehemently trying to keep their bank's identity a secret?

UPDATE: Zeek Support is apparently also banning speculations on the bank, with other members taking the side of Zeek in NOT answering what bank was Zeek using. Here's a screenshot of their support board, with the 4 "removed comments" highlighted:

ZeekRewards Support Forum screenshot (Zeek Logo removed by request)
ZeekRewards Support Forum screenshot (Zeek Logo removed by request)

Update: Zeek Support board is suggesting that a recent "training call" told Zeek affiliates to accept charges from South Korea. (it clearly can't be North Korea...)

NOTE: ZeekRewards logo was removed per request.

Compared to the previous "Please accept charges from ZonaLibre1" (which is obviously Panama) this is even MORE bewildering.

Q: So where is ZeekRewards credit card processor? Didn't ZeekRewardsNews say Hong Kong previously?


End of May Retail Profit Point Controversy

End of May 2012 Zeek posted a daily profit share (RPP) of 8.9%, then abruptly announced that they made a decimal point data entry mistake and will recalculate everybody's points.

This lead to critics pointing out that this only confirms speculation that the profit share is not calculated, but manually entered (from what?). Please see "Is Zeek Rewards paying out too much?" section above to see full perspective.


ZeekRewards Red Carpet Event charges $$$ to shake hands with Zeek Execs

Zeek Affiliates are reporting that the Red Carpet Event prices keep going up and up.

On ZeekRewardNews, the event cost was reported to be $25. And they are keeping the exact location a secret, as they claim the venue was overwhelmed by callers.

ZeekRewardNews says Red Carpet events are $25. And they are keeping the location a "secret".
ZeekRewardNews says Red Carpet events are $25. And they are keeping the location a "secret".

However, Zeek affiliates report that instead of a 300 attendee event, Zeek expanded the event for up to 1000 tickets, and is apparently charging extra $$$ if you want to dine and shake hands with the Zeek execs like Burks and Dawn and so on.

(Previously the line was misread as the event costing $1000, the error has been fixed)

ZeekSupport forum Screenshot
ZeekSupport forum Screenshot

Search of Clemmons NC shows that there are only two suitable venues in Clemmons: Holiday Inn Express, and VIllage Inn Event Center. The Holiday Inn Express has a 550 sq ft Hospitality Room that may be suitable. Some members have reported that it seems to be used in prior Red Carpet Events.

Apparently cameras and other recording devices are PROHIBITED at the Red Carpet event, according to the "official" May event presentation.

Q: Just how much does the Red Carpet event REALLY cost? How much to shake hands with Paul Burks, Dawn, and so on?

Q: Why so much secrecy? (No camera, no exact address, etc.)


Why is ZeekRewards telling everybody NOT to ask questions?

An official rep of ZeekRewards is telling affiliates on official support forum that they should stop asking questions, and if they need to ask such questions they should leave the company.

Brett Gurney (Official Rep) wrote: this (asking questions) needs to stop and if it doesn't those people who have to know this information maybe should just not be in zeek
Brett Gurney (Official Rep) wrote: this (asking questions) needs to stop and if it doesn't those people who have to know this information maybe should just not be in zeek

The only recent episode that I can think of that is similar is how Bernie "Biggest US Ponzi Scheme" Madoff reportedly told people who asked too many questions to leave.

The businessman continues to quiz him — that’s his style, as his accountant can attest. He pokes and prods until he gets answers.

Abruptly, Mr. Madoff becomes firmer. “Listen,” he says. “You ask a lot of questions. I just want to make one thing clear: With all due respect, once you invest, you can’t call me. You’ll deal with someone else.”

The businessman smiles — his accountant knows the comment has shut the door on any possibility of a deal. Perhaps that’s what Mr. Madoff intended.

As much as he needs this man’s cash, he cannot afford this relentless curiosity. After a few more pleasantries, they rise, exchange handshakes and walk toward the double glass doors leading to the elevators.

Consider the questions for yourself:

Q: is asking "Who does Zeek bank with" a reasonable question? If not, why not? If so, what is Zeek hiding?

Q: Why does an OFFICIAL Zeek Rep, on support forum, suggest that questions are NOT tolerated?

UPDATE: An explanation has surfaced recently, through unofficial channels, that Zeek is hiding the identity of their new bank because their old banks were getting calls from irate affiliates who wants to know why their check sent to Zeek had not been posted into their Zeek account. This both answers some questions, but create new ones, if this is true.

Q: If the explanation was true (see above), it's clearly a support issue with Zeek, so they need to fix the support issue. Why are they behaving like dictators, i.e. "shut up or leave"?

Q: If the explanation was true (see above), then their claim about their banks cannot "handle them" is PR spin. They were "politely asked" to bank elsewhere. Why do they not admit so, but instead, tried to whitewash the situation?


Why is a member conspiring with others to "game" ZeekRewards? UPDATE: Website has been removed, no info about whether Chapman was disciplined

When ZeekRewards request that you post ads to promote Zeekler, clearly, you are supposed to take it seriously and post in a place where they are expected to be read by people who are actually interesting in reading such stuff.

Would a ZeekReward "fan site" qualify as such? Surely not! People there already know about Zeekler!

How about a comment section of a blog? Surely not! Do you read the comments when you go to some random website for the ads?

So why is a member called Alan Chapman (whose long history in MLM I will not go into here), opened a Zeekrewards fan site (where it's obviously attracting people who know about Zeekler and ZeekRewards), and is encouraging other members to post their ad in his comments section? Who are supposed to read these ads?

UPDATE: I've been informed by a reliable source that the website is gone. However, I have not received word on fate of Mr. Chapman, whether he remained a Zeek affiliate.

The questions below remained though.

Alan Chapman's website says: just post your "daily ad" here. Will anybody read it?
Alan Chapman's website says: just post your "daily ad" here. Will anybody read it?

Some questions for you to ponder...

  • Does Zeek actually *check* if the ads are posted?
  • Do they care about where the ads are posted? It could just be in some random comment somewhere, like on this guy's Zeek fansite! (or even your own free blog)
  • Do you really want to work for a company where its members are violating at least the spirit, if not the body of the work, and encouraging others to do so?
  • If Zeek doesn't really care about the ads being posted, then what *are* you getting paid on?


Montana Flag. Is Zeek having problems there?
Montana Flag. Is Zeek having problems there?

UPDATE: Is ZeekRewards having problems in Montana?

In June 4th 2012 "leadership call" hosted by Dawn Oliveiras, at about the 18 minute mark she mentioned that 700 affiliates in Montana was affected, without specifying the problem, only that Zeek has "hoops to jump through", about how they jumped through the hoops, flaming or otherwise, in North Carolina and they will do so in Montana as well.

UPDATE: There are now reports on Facebook and ZeekSupport forum that both new member signup as well as bid purchases in Montana have been suspended by Zeek, no reasons were given as of 10-JUN-2012.

Considering that Zeek is headquartered in North Carolina, but had recently abandoned the two banks (Zeek claims the banks can't handle them any more) in North Carolina and moved an unspecified bank (in unknown area), one speculates whether this unspecified problem (or problems) may be related to legal issues. Consider that Montana is one of the first states to sue FHTM as a pyramid scheme, this may be an very interesting development.

Q: Is ZeekRewards having problems in Montana? If so, what sort of problems? Are they LEGAL problems? And why are they being so secretive about this problem?


ZeekrewardsNews -- banking issues topic... out of 65 comments, only 6 are shown. Where are the rest of them?
ZeekrewardsNews -- banking issues topic... out of 65 comments, only 6 are shown. Where are the rest of them?

UPDATE: ZeekRewards hides dirty laundry from public view

Previously ZeekRewards's support forum is available for public view. However, started this Wednesday 13-JUN-2012 they are going "private", i.e. only ZeekRewards member can login and view the issues and/or post them. This is their announcement:

On Wednesday June 13, 2012 this community will be going through transition.

With this migration from a public community to a private community we have some caveats that will take place, all the content in this current community will migrate over.

How does hiding all your dirty laundry from public view provide "better service"? It does NOT.

It also hides all issues being suffered by affiliates from potential affiliates, thus creating the illusion that everything is fine, until that affiliate runs into a problem and was directed to the support forum.

ZeekRewards is already famous for not tolerating dissent. Official rep of that support forum posted message that whoever keep asking questions should shut up or leave Zeek. (see above).

The ZeekRewardsNews website is also notable for hiding VAST MAJORITY of the comments, as the screenshot shows. Out of 65 comments, only 6 are shown. And this is typical of almost all topics on the website.

This is very typical of all ZeekRewardsNews website: only cheerful or neutral comments are published. All "negative", "critical", or "questioning" comments are hidden.

Q: What else are they hiding from public view?


Zeek recommends leads generator with suspect leads

Currently, ZeekRewards no longer supplies leads, but instead, refers all affiliates who needs leads to give away some bids to, to contact and purchase leads from ZCustomers

However, ZCustomers has this very interesting item in their FAQ:

Q: Do the prospects know that they are being signed up for Zeekler auctions?

A: No. They are informed about the Zeekler when they receive their first email from Zeekler with information about how to use their free bids. They only know they are going to receive at least 25 free bids.

This "customer" lead you supposedly got doesn't even know what s/he has signed up. Yet they appear in your "customer list" with accounts and passwords and such already created.

Q: Who created them, if they don't even know they have signed up?

Q: Do you really expect such "leads" to buy any bids after trying your free bids?

Tracing the owners behind ZCustomers revealed that they may actually be ZeekRewards members, yet they claim they are NOT affiliated with Zeekler or ZeekRewards.

Q: Are they really worth $2.00 each if you buy in lots of 200?

UPDATE: A person claiming to be Bessoni, owner of ZCustomers, posted two comments at BehindMLM that denies any wrongdoing, promised to answer questions, then never reappeared.


North Carolina AG's office did NOT say Zeek is legal

Recently a local TV station to Zeekler did a segment on penny auction industry and generally portrayed Zeek in a positive light. However, a statement was read by the reporter at the end that seem to imply that Zeekler and Zeekrewards have been vetted by North Carolina Attorney General's office and have been deemed legal. This turned out to be a mistake, as no such statement appeared in the written version, and when queried, the NC AG's office spokesperson replied that they have contacted the TV station to make a correction, that AG's office has NOT made any determination on whether Zeekler and ZeekRewards are legal or not.

This did not stop ZeekRewards News, the official Zeek News channel, from immediately blogging about their "success", and its affiliates to spam comments at the TV station website with recruiting links. Some even went as far as claiming that Federal Trade Commission and Securities Exchange Commission had "cleared" the company, even though no such thing had happened.

Q: Is the report a genuine report by the local news, or is it a "fluff piece", essentially an advertorial?


MORE ZeekRewards problem with credit card? (Fourth or fifth time?)

There are repeated reports of credit card problems at Zeek, about the monthly charges through credit card billed NOT by Zeek or Zeekler, but with very odd names and merchants not in the US!

In May we already heard that there was at least one incident involving charges for "Zonalibre1", which is Panama, that were supposedly charged by Zeek.

In end of May we heard another incident, confirmed by ZeekRewardsNews that there were some charges by Zeek that were labelled as Korea.

Now in June we just heard that there was a charge by Zeek labelled as Lucky Star Design, but actually originated in Costa Rica.

Now we are getting reports that Zeek told affiliates to accept charges from Lamda EC out of Cyprus, and CCBILL based out of Malta.

Clearly whoever Zeekrewards went to after their departure from the two North Carolina banks is NOT handling their load properly. Or Zeek's own IT is putting the wrong data in the fields.

Q: What is going on over there that they KEEP having these problems?

Zeek stopped taking checks

According to Zeek News, from June 6th 2012 on, they ONLY accept cashier's checks, money orders, credit cards (when they work), and eWallet transactions.

Q: Is this meant to improve customer service? Or reduce their own risk? None of the payment methods here can be stopped except credit card, which can be "disputed".


Zeek COO Dawn-Olivares blundered on leadership call about how eWallet works

In a June Leadership Call, (available on Youtube as a secret listing), Dawn Wright-Oliveras, COO of Zeek, has prepared a 20 minute pre-recorded statement. Very interestingly, at about the 4:15 mark, she claimed that Zeek's NxPay account has no money, and it's NOT a bank account, and affiliates have to PAY things to Zeek through NxPay so other affiliates can take money OUT of NxPay. Why Zeek cannot transfer more money into their NxPay account is a mystery, and indeed many affiliates are now getting very fed up with all these excuses... They fulfilled their part of the agreement and they want to get paid.

Following is an exact quote (except the "uhs" and "okay") from the June 5th 2012 leadership call (bold added for emphasis)

When you take out your wallet out of your purse or your backpocket whatever money you have, you personally put in there, is the only money you have you can use to pay for your groceries with. You may have some cards in there, you may have some checks in there, but if we are taking about cash, which is how an eWallet works, whatever you guys would use, to go ahead make purchases from us with, is what's in the eWallet, is what we can turn around and pay payroll with. It's not a depositing bank account.

However, this explanation DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS what NXSystems says on their website:

Your company establishes an NxPay® account whereby you deposit your payroll / commissions funds (by check, wire transfer or ACH). Then each of your independent representatives establishes an NxPay® account as well. Once all of the accounts have been set-up, your company creates a spreadsheet (within your NxPay® account) that tells NxPay® how you want to distribute the funds deposited.

You *do* deposit funds to eWallet provider and distributes them to people you want to pay, who also have eWallet accounts with the same provider. Everybody works this way, including AlertPay, SolidTrust Pay, Payza, Liberty Reserve, even PayPal, the granddaddy of them all.

Dawn Wright-Olivares is ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY WRONG about how eWallet works.

Which begs the follow-up questions:

Q: how can a COO not understand how the system works?

Q: If she *does* understand it, why would she lie?

UPDATE: Apparently Dawn Wright-Olivares now suggests that Zeek is NOT paying money into eWallet, and affiliates have to feed money into Zeek's eWallet so other affiliates can get paid. Following is another transcript of June "training call", with some BOLD sections added.

What you put in it is what you can take out and hand to somebody else. Okay, now picture that electronically and you’re going to understand what NxPay is. Okay. It is a global payroll eWallet. It is a lump of leather in your hand. And what we put into the Zeek lump of leather – what the affiliates purchase form Zeek through NxPay, is what they put into the lump of Zeek leather

And whatever is in there, is what Zeek can turn around and give out during commission runs. It is not a bank. It is not Fort Knox. It is not a well that is spring fed from the earth and makes money. It is just a lump of leather, it is a container, and it holds everything that you guys put in it by making purchases, okay.

It doesn’t have any spring fed well. It doesn’t have a magical power to manifest money. And it is not a bank that we can deposit oodles of cash into from other resources. Because eWallets recycle cash.

Q: If Zeek cannot pay people from the profits they are making from Zeekler, then how are ANY of the people getting paid?

From another June "leadership call"

Whatever you guys have purchased from Zeek with, is what we can then turn around and pay commissions with. We can’t just go in there with bags of money and just go ‘here’, no way. The more you go ahead and convert your purchasing to Zeek Rewards through NxPay, the more we can afford to pay out in commissions through NxPay.

Apparently, Zeek COO Dawn Wright-Olivares just admitted that affiliates are paying other affiliates. That would make Zeek a Ponzi scheme.


UPDATE: Zeek COO insist that Zeek affiliates caused NxPay problems

Zeek COO Dawn Wright-Olivares made an update on ZeekRewardNews, less than a day after her own leadership call where she told all affiliates that if you don't pay Zeek with NxPay you are not getting PAID with NxPay either, implying that Zeek (for unknown reasons) is NOT putting more money into its own NxPay account. Affiliates have to pay themselves.

In the update, Dawn insists that the eWallet provider explained it to her that way, so it can't be her fault:

It was explained to me (Dawn) by the owner of an eWallet company (unnamed) whom we are in the process of building a new relationship with…that the model is built to ‘recycle money being spent by each company’s affiliates – to be paid back out to the affiliates in the form of payroll. That it’s not a “deposit account” at a bank.

The problem is this is directly contradicted by NXSystem's own webpage. Her attempt to deflect blame by "citing nameless authority" is "spin control".

Dawn then digress into why they cannot pay individual user's eWallets (something about it's a complicated process)

There are a ton of hoops to jump through for companies to be approved to “deposit/wire” funds into each individual eWallet provider and HOW MUCH is definiately something that is limited by the banks associated with them.

However, people have already been paid through NxPay for the past several weeks. So these hoops have been jumped LONG AGO!

This also does NOT explain why she implied that Zeek cannot or will not fund its own eWallet the previous day. Dawn saved the burger analogy for last:

...Continuing the analogy is like asking us to let you spend money at Burger King® and insisting you pick up your Big Mac® at Wendy’s®.

A more accurate analogy is you made an online payment to say, Best Buy, and you want to pick it up at a local store. On Best Buy's website, you can check whether the local store has the inventory for you to pick up. Given that Zeek has no indicator on which eWallet provider has money to request payment from, and has REFUSED to explain why they can't just transfer funds from one eWallet provider to another (ship to my closest store), or deposit money from their own bank (ship from warehouse), and insist on this DISASTROUS explanation about affiliates paying affiliates by 'recycling the cash' (wait for someone to return an item to the store), what impression do they expect all the affiliates to get?


More eWallet troubles at Zeek, may be fixed?

Just received reports that Zeek is having trouble with SolidTrust Pay as of June 27th, 2012. As they also had NxPay problems, that leaves only Credit Card and AlertPay (or Payza) as ways to pay Zeek. No idea how long this outage would last.

UPDATE: there are reports that it's fixed just before July 4th.

More IT problems at Zeek, lost logins and server errors?

Getting reports out of Zeek that various IT and server problems seem to be plaguing the site. Here are some of the reported problems during July 4th and subsequent days:

  • Lost login info after switching between ZeekRewards and Support website
  • Cannot create new users to receive bids
  • Random 500 Internal server errors
  • Cannot login or lost session

Zeekler owes business model to Ponzi scheme?

According to an e-mail obtained by Ponzi and Scam Reporter PatrickPretty.com, top ZeekRewards member stated that Zeek's business model is based on a convicted 100+ million dollar Ponzi scheme Ad Surf Daily. This email then uses this link to solicit donations to the originator of this scam, Andy Bowdoin, who only recently plead guilty and is sitting in D.C. area jail.

The specific e-mail was from Barbara Alford, a former ASD member and currently ZeekRewards member, though it is believed to have originated from Todd Disner, former ASD member and currently top ZeekRewards member. Other names attached to this request includes various former ASD members, such as Jerry Napier, a top ZeekRewards member highlighted as a success story on the ZeekRewardsNews website.

It is also interesting to note that Terralyn Hoy, a former ASD member, is listed as a ZeekRewards employee on ZeekRewards customer support website (which was subsequently taken behind a registration wall).

Below is an excerpt from the email. You can see the full e-mail at PatrickPretty.com. (Bold added for emphasis)

As you all are aware, Andy, is now sitting in a DC jail ward. He is in need of funds in his account so that he can purchase shoes, tooth brushes, toothpaste etc. the prison system charges ridiculous prices for this stuff. A pair of shoes alone in there costs 65.00.

You are also all aware that I believe those of us in Zeek and other programs that modeled themselves after the business model that Andy pioneered owe this man a great deal of gratitude and more. Please get in touch with your down lines as well.

I have received info where funds can be wired into his account to help him with his daily needs.


Rex Venture Group BBB rating changed from F to "no rating", then back to F

As previously checked (as of early May 2012), Rex Venture Group's BBB rating was a miserable F. However, it appears that a slew of solved issues has lead BBB to erase that rating. As of 14-JUL-2012 the rating now is "No rating".

Checking the BBB rating log for "Rex Venture Group" shows over a dozen resolved incidents from April to June 2012. Prior to May 2012 there were a dozen different complaints that were unresolved. Total resolved incident is now 26.

There are two interpretations to this fact, a good one and a bad one.

Good interpretation: customer service was improved dramatically and the BBB change of rating reflects that.

Bad interpretation: incidents were resolved solely to "game" BBB ratings, and now it no longer says F, complaints will magically cease.

Only prolonged observation will we be able to observe a pattern, and know which interpretation is correct. A business should usually receive complaints fairly sporadically, but consistently. Steady complaints for like years, then suddenly a dozen complaints in 3 months?

UPDATE: As of 02-AUG-2012 the rating is back to "F"


Zeek still processing credit cards through Korea?

Reports that ZeekRewards is processing membership fees through some random company names in Korea has resurfaced on Facebook. "Internet Paygate Seoul" and "Global Kamba" have been mentioned, and apparently Zeek has verified those to be genuine.

Previously we've covered that Zeek had been using credit card processors out of Malta (CCBILL), Cyprus (Lamda), Panama (ZonaLibre1), Costa Rica (Star Designs?), and more, all based on member complaints. Korea had also been mentioned at least once.

The member reported that in general US based credit cards do NOT allow charges from foreign countries as a security measure (unless you tell them you are going out of the country). Thus, allowing "foreign" transactions puts you at a higher risk of accepting fraudulent charges from abroad. Beware.

From Facebook capture, names and pictures blurred to protect members' privacy.
From Facebook capture, names and pictures blurred to protect members' privacy.

Randy Schroeder calls ZeekRewards a Ponzi scheme

I am not going to explain who Randy Schroeder is. You can look that up yourself. I'll just say he's offering a personal opinion, but he is also a head of a major international MLM. And on an Internet conference, he came right out and called ZeekRewards a Ponzi, and predicted it'll meet a fiery end, sooner than later.

Reaction among the crowd had been swift. Zeek defenders are quick to level the "sour grapes" excuse, and they *do* have some evidence... apparently several high level affiliates from that business jumped to ZeekRewards recently (and brought over quite a few downlines). While others made LONG explanations on why retaliating is wrong, it is bad for the industry, it has a chilling effect, blah blah blah. One noted supporter even invited Mr. Schroeder to visit ZeekRewards HQ and meet the ZR team face to face and settle their differences instead of taking it out on the affiliates.

It seems that Mr. Schroeder, in his attempt to NOT go off topic too much (he's there to coach his own people, not to discuss other businesses), simply told the listeners to trust him, as a long time veteran in the industry. He knows what he's talking about. It is an hour-long conference and he spent merely 3 minutes on this topic.

You can find the links elsewhere. I am not linking to it.

I present you evidence and logical analysis. I came to a particular conclusion, which agrees with Mr. Schroeder's conclusion.

Maybe we think alike, maybe we don't. I'll have to ask him, if I ever get the chance to.

But his words do carry a lot of weight.

So here's a question to all the Zeek defenders, who insist that my words lack "authority", that I am a nobody, a person behind a keyboard. To you, my evidence and logic are meaningless even if they are true and logical. Now that a MLM veteran, earning more than you can count, leading more people than you can meet, has called ZeekRewards a Ponzi, are you having some doubts to your conviction?


Consultant representing RVG sent notice to knock this hub offline

A consultant claiming to represent Rex Venture Group sent a notice to HubPages, host of this hub, demanding the hub to be taken offline. The notice was riddled with spelling errors, and claims that the hub is interfering in their business, violated their copyright, trademark, and have made untruthful and libel statements about Rex Venture Group and its businesses.

As a precaution, Hubpages took the hub offline while it investigated this person's claims as well as get in touch with me.

The complaint refers to trademarks NOT owned by Rex Venture Group (despite claims that they are), copyrighted terms that are covered by "fair use", while naming sections that are alleged to be "untruthful" and "libelous" without explaining what exactly is untruthful and libelous about them.

When I requested details from this person, he said he couldn't POSSIBLY create a list of what's untruthful or libelous and why about the hub by Monday. (I contacted him on THURSDAY). When I pressed for more details, he replied with veiled legal threats about "pursue all legal venues".

EDIT: The hub is back online on August 1st, 2012, 6 days after the complaint was sent in. The other party NEVER told me or Hubpages what exactly was untruthful or libelous, nor does he REALLY have authority to issue takedown notices. It is now over a week later and not a single word had been received.



Keith Laggos left ZeekRewards, revealed he joins companies he lauds on his magazine AND consults for

Keith Laggos, MLM Consultant, and publisher of NMBJ, an industry "journal", was found to be touting Lyoness, a suspect scheme that elements of frequent shopper card and pyramid scheme, to Zeek affiliates. While on a conference call, he claimed credit to have guided Zeek toward FTC compliance by moving their credit card processor offshore (this hub have previously identified at least 5 processors in 5 different countries used). However, he also revealed he is a Zeek affiliate with 40000 downlines, and is making $45000 a month, and is touting Lyoness as a "plan B" for all Zeek affiliates that listened in. Furthermore, Laggos predicted that FTC will STILL hit Zeek in a few months.

The shock is complete at both Zeek and MLM advocates. When Troy Dooly, industry insider attempted to verify this at Zeek, Zeek COO stated that Laggos no longer consults for them. Furthermore, Zeek affiliate rules specifically prohibits "poaching" (i.e. cross-recruiting).

Analysis and reaction

Mr. Laggos is in an extremely gray area both legally and ethically. One should not be allowed to be an affiliate in a business he consults for as well as publish articles lauding that business. This is a severe conflict of interest, on multiple levels. Yet it is clear he had done so with Rex Venture Group / Zeek Rewards. To have him turn around, violate affiliate rules, and push yet some other scheme is just... beyond the pale.

However, few people know that Mr. Laggos had a run in with the SEC back in 2002 when he published an article in a different journal lauding a different business (called "Converge") without disclosing that he's being paid to do so, and helped to perpetuate a stock scam.


North Carolina Credit Union warned members about Zeek being possibly fraudulent

Reports surfaced on BehindMLM that at least one Zeek affiliate received a call from a local credit union (in North Carolina, same as Zeek) , who noticed that the member is doing business with Zeek and wish to warn the member that Zeek may possibly be fraudulent. Since then several people have contacted the credit union through separate channels and have received somewhat different answers, that seems to stop short of calling Zeek an outright fraud, but warns all members to exercise additional due diligence.

We are awaiting clarification, which may or may not be forthcoming. It is not known what lead the credit union to such a decision, if indeed one was reached.

UPDATE 04-AUG-2012 ZeekReward News released a statement by new COO Caldwell that he contacted the credit union and tracked down the person who "like all our critics, he was behaving unprofessionally by acting on false information". Unfortunately, Caldwell failed to point out what exactly was false about the allegations. He claimed the person admitted to not knowing direct selling related laws, but failed to name the laws in question.

Caldwell turned around and blames the affiliates who spread the news, claiming that the memo is INTERNAL to the credit union and thus irrelevant, and claimed "sometimes, we are our own worst enemies", Furthermore, Caldwell pointed out that any affiliates who continues to "fan the flames of issues that are the proper responsibility of Zeek Corporate…and it’s a violation of the Zeek Policies and Procedures for which violators will be held responsible."

Analysis

Unfortunately for the affiliates, instead of addressing *what* would cause a Credit Union to circulate an internal memo called RVG and Zeek possibly fraudulent, the new acting COO continued to pay the "blame the affiliates and the critics" game like his predecessor.

By portraying the critics as "self-appointed critics with no standing in the professional community", he hopes to discredit all critics. Unfortunately, more and more MLM veterans consider RVG and Zeek to be a potential fraud. Schroeder was the first, and Laggos only a few days ago. Clearly, those are not people "with no standing in the professional community".

There is a Chinese saying, "those in the trap can't see the trap, those outside can see clearly." Mr. Caldwell is using one of the bad arguments I've identified, which I called "you can't judge us unless you're with us" argument. Apparently, by Mr. Caldwell's logic, only ex-Felons and ex-Cons can be prosecutors and cops. They would have "standing in professional community" of criminals.

The promise to go after Zeek affiliates who was spreading the info is also troubling. Instead of "Thanks for bringing this to our attention", it's "f*** you for spreading rumors!"

IMHO, Caldwell was brought in as the "bad cop" to counter Wright-Olivares's "good cop". Apparently, carrots are not enough to bring the affiliates in line, so they brought in the stick.


ZeekRewards BBB rating back to F

In Mid-July 2012 the BBB rating was temporary changed to no rating. However, it seems to be back to F, as it was before the "no rating" period.

Zeebates, mandatory ad package, and qualifiers

ZeekRewards is introducing multiple programs, which may or may not help it achieve compliance.

ZeekRewards appears to be introducing a "mandatory" $30 per month ad package made by their official video maker USHBB that is required for all affiliates of a certain level. Details from this is sketchy and will be updated as they become available. USHBB is known for making videos starring Andy Bowdoin and his Ad Surf Daily Ponzi scheme, and only makes videos for "internet marketing" companies.

ZeekRewards announced Zeebates, which is supposed to be some sort of a frequent shopper card that gives you money back. Details and participating merchants are sketchy. Some have compared it to a program called Lyoness, which was under suspicion in Europe as a pyramid scheme, and was sued as such by one ex-member. When details become available this will be updated.

Zeek have previously hinted at some major changes to the affiliate's qualifiers, and this was repeated at some websites, but few details have surfaced, only that big changes are coming. The word "qualifiers" is interesting, as it implies additional criteria to meet. Some affiliates are wondering if it's a way to pay less people, i.e. people have to do more things, like get customers before they get paid. When more details emerge this will be updated.


Zeek Shut down by SEC

On August 17th, Zeek Rewards and its related companies, Zeekler and Rex Venture Group, was shut down by SEC, in cooperation with Secret Service.

If you lost money to this scam, refer to the other hub:

http://kschang.hubpages.com/hub/Zeek-Rewards-Recovery-QA-all-sourced-from-news-reports-and-experts

Conclusion

To summarize the findings:

  • ZeekReward operated for over a year before deciding to check whether itself is compliant with law or not, and upon the conclusion, instituted huge changes in advertising, but little fundamental business changes.
  • ZeekRewards rewards you NOT for your work, but for the amount of money you put into the system, and keeping it IN the system as long as possible, and for recruiting other people who do the same
  • ZeekRewards pays usurious rates of average 1.4% daily profit (thousands of percent annually), which far exceeds profit share of scams, such as Ad Surf Daily and is only matched or exceeded by some HYIP Internet Ponzi schemes.
  • Despite the compensation package rewarding you for putting money in and keeping it in, and fits definition of "investment contract" as per "Howey Test" by SEC, ZeekRewards insists it is NOT an investment
  • ZeekRewards abruptly terminated hundreds (perhaps, thousands) of affiliates in multiple foreign nations with no proper explanation. Explanations thus far offered does not make any sense and changes from week to week.
  • ZeekRewards fits, at least partially, the three criteria MLM Attorney Gerald Nehra used to define a Ponzi scheme
  • ZeekRewards may be considered illegal lottery as winning seem to depend on chance instead of skill, and winning cash (in some cases).
  • ZeekRewards is extremely secretive, deletes/hides negative or questioning comments from public view, even revoking public viewing of its support forum.
  • ZeekRewards refused to discuss who are they banking with in the US, after leaving behind two banks in North Carolina, with official reps suggesting that any one who wants to know should leave the company.
  • ZeekRewards release vague statements about "hoops to jump through" in North Carolina and Montana, but gave no details.
  • ZeekRewards' top affiliates including many former members of Ponzi schemes such as Ad Surf Daily

Does ZeekRewards make sense? No. It claims it is NOT an investment, yet it behaves like an investment, rewarding you for giving it money and keeping the money in for as long as possible. Any work you do is purely incidental. Furthermore, it is behaving like a very poorly ran company, not one that supposedly earned millions and paid out millions in 2001. Its secrecy and attitude toward questions matches Bernie "Ponzi king" Madoff. Its customer service seems to be getting from bad to worse.

Can ZeekRewards be profitable? Yes, if you choose to give it money first (hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars), and keep it in for several months or longer. But then, so can most scams, at least for the short term.

Would I join ZeekRewards? No. The business model makes no sense. One should not have to spend money to make money. The company's compensation model makes it clear it is after your MONEY, not your hard work. I am very suspicious of any company that wants money instead of work, then insist it is NOT AN INVESTMENT. Indeed, many critics have pointed out that this is basically a Ponzi scheme, where you are being paid with your own money (basically you gave it as free loan to Zeek, with promise of much future $$$).

Was I being negative? No, merely truthful.

Now consider this final question

Given the risk (all the unanswered questions, potential and actual legal problems, time delay in getting your money out, misrepresentation "not an investment", Zeek customer service problems, if it's a scam I'll be outcast from my friends and family, refusal to answer questions, and so on and so forth...)

And the amount of work (minimal, put some money in, post one ad a day, and maybe recruit a few more people to join)

Is the reward (possibly earn a LOT of money, thousands, perhaps tens or thousands or more, over some unknown period of time) worth it?

THAT is the question you have to weigh for yourself.

I hope you are more informed now regarding ZeekRewards, and make up your mind whether to join or not. If you have comments, please add them below. Keep in mind that I will deny comments that includes referral IDs, as well as frivolous "I made money! Join today!" type comments.


Reader Reactions

So far, reader reactions generally falls into the following types

A. ZeekRewards is a fine program and you are just stupid to bad-mouth it.

My reaction: The truth can hurt, sometimes, a lot.

B. ZeekRewards will make / made me money so I don't care what you say.

My reaction: then you are choosing with your heart, not with your head. And the heart is not the wisest of your organs.

C. ZeekRewards is indeed suspicious and I'm getting out as soon as I recoup my money.

My reaction: your decision is your own business, but thank you for sharing.

D. You have confirmed my suspicions in Zeekrewards and I'm glad I / friend / relative did not join

My reaction: I am glad my information was useful to you.


Epilogue

The Zeek Rewards Ponzi scheme turned out to be the largest ever in the US in terms of number of victims. This is unfortunate, as the warning signs had all been there.

Those who are looking for income opportunities should study this scam and note the warning signs that analysts have been pointing at all along, and WHY they are ignored... and make sure they don't repeat the mistakes of million people.

More by this Author


Comments 727 comments

GoingOnline profile image

GoingOnline 4 years ago

After reading this, it looks to me like a typical ponzi scam, really. Get money when you put money in or get people to put money in, get less money if you withdraw (because I assume that makes the pyramid stay longer)... Fishy.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@GoingOnline -- they claim they are about "sales", and members are "promoting" Zeekler, the auction side, by giving away bids (they bought themselves).

In fact, they claimed that any bids purchased and given away can be claimed as "business expense" tax deduction.

(I told you they are not making sense)


GoingOnline profile image

GoingOnline 4 years ago

Claims don't really matter... I haven't seen any illegal scheme saying "We're a Ponzi, we want to steal your money and we'll make it easy for you to give it to us".

It would be much easier to avoid them if they did! :D

At least your hub does make sense :)


Jimmy 4 years ago

Good overview. I wanted to also point out two things:

1. You mention putting money into the system (such as buying $10,000 in bids to start with a 10,000 virtual points base). Many affiliates have done very well recruiting others and earning the 10% commission on level 1 recruits and 5% on level 2 recruits. So the main ways to earn with Zeek is both the passive investment model and by recruiting.

2. You used 100 vs. 10,000 points as a comparison point to show unequal pay for equal work. I wanted to point out that there are affiliates with six figure point balances, and thousands in mid 5 figures. So you could show:

$100 @ 1.5% = $1.50

$10k @ 1.5% = $150

$50k @ 1.5% = $750

$100k @ 1.5% = $1,500

$200k @ 1.5% = $3,000

$500k @ 1.5% = $7,500

$800k @ 1.5% = $12,500

Your comparison of $1.50 vs. $1.50 for placing spammy classified ads alone should be enough evidence to show that the posting of ads has no value and is just an arbitrary event so that Zeek Rewards can claim income earned is to due "to work" (so that they can bypass the regulatory requirements surrounding investments).

I wanted to show that you can also compare $1.50 vs $1500 or higher to show the absolute absurdity of the "work requirement".

(I posted a comment in the TVI Express hubpage by accident, if you can edit this command could you remove this sentence and update it with that comment?)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Thanks for the clarification. I thought I had explained that the points seem to be the only requirement to get paid more, but a table would make much more sense.

I can't edit comments. :)


Jim 4 years ago

well I was enjoying your summary until you said ---- "One should not have to spend money to make money." --- NOTHING could be further from the truth, of course you have to spend money to make money, have you ever tried to start a business?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jim -- One does not spend money on a business. One spends money to buy assets (inventory, equipment, etc.) to be used in a business. If your business fails, you still have the assets (albeit worth a little less).

Thus, it can't be compared with ZeekRewards, where you spent money on virtual bids that has no worth in the real world, to be given away to random people. So if you choose to quit, you can't get the money back. Thus, it is not for purchase of assets.

ZeekRewards is after your MONEY, not your work. So it is an INVESTMENT. Yet it claims it is NOT an investment. That is the contradiction I wish to point out.


ron 4 years ago

what a bullshit. zeekrewards is good


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Ron -- I warned you already, lame comments like "ZR is good" with no reasoning to back it up will NOT be approved!


heyyou 4 years ago

Nice artice to read but the real bottom line is that I'am actually making the money from zeekrewards. :p


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@heyyou -- I have no doubt you made money. However, your statement can mean two things:

"I made money therefore it's not a scam" is a logical fallacy. Plenty of scams made money.

"I made money so I don't care if it's a scam or not". Is a valid observation.

As I can't read your mind, I don't know which statement you actually mean. furthermore, please clarify: did you actually made a NET profit, after you counted all the money you put in as bids and whatnot? And how many days did it take for you to do so?


Boss 4 years ago

You are an idiot mate. Of course you need to spend money to make money, how do you think the wealthy are wealthy. The bigger the risk, the bigger the return; If you put $1000 in, after 6 months you withdraw 10%, therefore you are withdrawing sufficient income making back you $1000 in a few weeks whilst your balance contiues to grow. Therefore, after that there is no risk, just returns (gains). If you actually think about the financial and business side of it "as an investment", even though it is not, you can make very good money. If you are smart, look at it in a "short-term" view. Then add people to join and you receive royalties for additional member = more profit. You can massively diminish your risk. When you have a serious think about it, the risk is not that highy. You need to look more closely into it mate before you write such an article. Try constructing a financial model then you will understand.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

The fact that you start your comment with an insult really demonstrates your closed mind.

The wealthy are wealthy because of 1) inheritance, 2) luck, like lottery winnings, 3) great scammer, or 4) at the right place at the right time with the right skills and resources and made the right decisions.

The rest of your comment can be summed up as "you can make money with ZeekRewards after a few months of putting in money with little risk". So even YOU agree it's an investment. So why do they say it's NOT an investment?

I did not say it's a high-risk or low-risk. I even said you *could* make money. I am pointing out the business model makes no sense, has plenty of areas that can be trouble to the business (and thus, to all the money you put in). Thus, the risk is a lot higher than you think it is.

When FTC hits a business, it freezes all the assets and it'll take years to get a refund. Look at Burnlounge or Ad Surf Daily.

Overall, you did not analyze the business model or other problems, only that "it can make money with low risk". I believe the risk of getting shut down by government is far greater than you think. The fact that Zeek hired all these big shot lawyers and whatnot speaks volumes to what they fear.


am301986 profile image

am301986 4 years ago from New Delhi

Good attempt...thanks for sharing!


TheMMAZone profile image

TheMMAZone 4 years ago from Kansas

I have to say (embarrassed :)) I hadn't heard of this before but am going to check it out.

Thanks


onlinereputations profile image

onlinereputations 4 years ago from Dumaguete City

Interesting. Worth the read.


Paidaroundtheclock 4 years ago

i have learned from the inside and love it!!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Paid -- your comment is as lame as Ron's comment above.

Getting paid doesn't prove it's legit. Madoff paid many of his 'victims', for like 20 years.


AdamG 4 years ago

This are the exact queries I had. Thanks for the great Read.

I do have mates within the 'program' and they have started to draw money out successfully, as far as i am aware. However they have not recovered their initial investment.

However I am a great believer in your return on an 'investment' should be directly correlated to the risk.

At present this is one of the greatest returns for little to no risk. Based on this and this alone, i feel as if there is something suspicious with the scheme...

Life is not that easy, if it was- we wouldn't be having this conversation.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

There seems to be three kinds of Zeekers...

The kind that knows it's a scam, and is pulling their money out as fast as possible

The kind that knows it's a scam, but want to ride it out as far as they can

The kind that don't know it's a scam, and don't want to know either

It's very easy to spot each kind in the comments. :)


TP 4 years ago

Your numbers are off...100 x .65 = $65! If you can't get this simple math right, what makes us think you can get Zeek right?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@TP -- Thank you for your feedback. That example has been fully rewritten to be more realistic.


chris 4 years ago

Thanks for posting this article!

I have been on the fence for a while with zeekler...

I have friends who are doing it right now and are making anywhere from 2k a week to 15k a week (he has been in zeekler for 1 year & 3 months)

it seems fishy to me that a company would pay so much more money to someone doing the same amount of work like posting an add!

how long do you think it will take the FTC to freeze zeekler?

Thanks again for this post!


cablemanagements profile image

cablemanagements 4 years ago from India

Visited this hub. Honestly nothing to do with Zeek.. very few hubs I found with such a rich comments section . Enjoyed that.. Your quote "One should not have to spend money to make money." is good may be complete by adding "waiting is nurturing"


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Chris -- depends on how big ZeekRewards get. It's right at the point where it gets noticed, and growth slows down to cause a cash crunch, but its "reinvestment" slows the cash flow so it may survive for a while yet.

@cable -- you haven't seen my "TVI Express" hubs... hundreds of comments. :D I think there's also the "Is there a God" debates (not my hub though). :D

"Waiting is nurturing" is an interesting thought. Is that like Indian way of saying "Patience is a virtue" so don't rush in? I like that.


cablemanagements profile image

cablemanagements 4 years ago from India

Thanks! wait for my hub on the thought "waiting.." whenever people share their views of money making I can see them full with your approach "spending Money.." and then they forgot to nurture. They seem to do something but all that cannot be taken as nurturing.. this is something much more than Patience.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Cable -- In my opinion, there are three ways to make money

1) You are simply given money (inheritance, lottery, etc.)

2) You earn your money through hard work and smart decisions (and be at the right place, right time, with right resources)

3) You cheat and scam your way to money, either knowing or not.

ZeekRewards is clearly NOT #2, as there's no meaningful work. So is it #1 or #3?

Modern society is all about making money and little about enjoying life. But then, I'm seriously off topic. :D When you post your hub we'll trade comments on that.


David Campeau Jr profile image

David Campeau Jr 4 years ago from Pennsylvania

@kschang The big problem with all of this that I see is this nonsense about what is an investment and what is not. Virtually everything we buy is an investment, no matter what it is. If I buy organic food, I see it as an investment in my health even though the SEC would not consider it an investment.

I definitely agree ZeekRewards is risky because of the chance that it could get shut down by Corp. U.S. Corp. U.S. hates not having control of virtually all aspects of business and commerce through licensing (fascism).

I say that if people willingly choose to invest (whatever you want to call it) their money in ZeekRewards to make money let them. As long as all of the terms and conditions are fully disclosed and the contracts followed, who really cares if it meets the SEC definition of investment or not. They all agree to enter into a contract with one another.

What people perceive as government today (Corp. U.S.) has encroached way to far into the lives of Americans today, regulating what they think we should and shouldn't do.

Overall, great investigation into the ZeekRewards program.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@David Campeau -- SEC has a very specific definition called the Howey test established in SEC vs. Howey, as I explained in that section. Whether SEC *should* have jurisdiction over "private investment" is not really the issue, and ZR is not private at all. I agree with your libertarian attitude to a degree. :)


cablemanagements profile image

cablemanagements 4 years ago from India

Sure ! I felt that we are going off topic so i didn't go in detail. Thanks !


Suzanne Rhodes 4 years ago

I think this a fair, balanced, and thorough review of Zeek Rewards. I also have a more basic and brief review of this "opportunity" on www.ehomebusinessreviews.com. I leave it people to make their own decision, but I will not be surprised if this gets shuts down by the SEC. I know people who have made money with it because they have been in it for several months and have pulled out their original principle to play with "house money". For anyone else who is newer or hasn't yet recouped their original investment, if this gets shut down, it will take about 3-5 years to recoup the investment minus attorney fees. That will mean about 25% of the original investment will be what you get back if history is any indication.


wade peres 4 years ago

who ever this person is has no life based on what they said that you don't have to spend money to make money i don't know what country this person lives in but in a capitalistic country you have to spend money to make money i disagree with this post 100%


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Wade Peres -- As you can work to make money anywhere in the world, my conclusion is you must be a space alien, probably a Ferengi, if you REALLY think you must use money to make money.


David Campeau Jr profile image

David Campeau Jr 4 years ago from Pennsylvania

@kschang You definitely need to spend money to make money even in a job. There might be a few special jobs out there that you don't have to pay for anything. However, that is not the usual case. To get to most jobs, you need to have a car or some other transportation which costs money for gas, insurance, registration, inspection, bus/train ticket, etc. Most people work for a business, which has overhead, which is spending money. If those businesses didn't spend any money to make money, the people working for them wouldn't have jobs.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@David Campeau -- getting to and from work is considered PERSONAL expense, and cost is minor compared to salary you get as to be virtually "incidental".

Business is not the same as a person, as a business cannot trade labor for salary. ZR is recruiting individuals, not businesses. Thus, while your point is valid, it is not really relevant.


Matt 4 years ago

This review was ok, but could have been more neutral, as you are only making assumptions about the growth/return figures and such. A 1.5% daily compound definitely looks suspicious, but the ability to only withdraw growth, and the 90 day point expiry would actually bring the real growth down substantially (given the time to return). It looks to me like this program will collapse eventually, unless their escape is to drop the growth percentage when they run into trouble as it isn't guaranteed. So I guess the question is, how long will zeek survive, and are you comfortable investing in a program like this? I have family invested (to whom I urged caution), so I am going to try to gather as much information about the company this week to try and predict when it will crash.


ejaa 4 years ago

Well done on this! Unfortunately I am late to find it. I have a question though. If Zeekler penny auctions are doing a 100 auctions a day and averages $500-$1000 a day, and plus if the shoppingdaisy.com is making what ever money it makes, lighthouse america, and the other ways this whole organization is making money like classified ad companys paying .75 to zeekler per ad posted by zeekrewards affiliates. At what point is this a ponzi scheme when the money going out far exceeds the actual real money being made legitimately (not by new recruits buying bids). Another way of putting this is what if 50% of money is being made by zeekler penny auctions and other websites they have and 50% is by new affiliates buying bids. Is that still a ponzi Scheme? Because it is ok to make money off of new affiliates but not 98% of the money like adsurfdaily was doing. So what does the percentage need to be for legitimate compared to pyramid need to be? %50/%50? %30/%70? %80/%20? I understand at some point the amount going out will far exceed the legitimate websites.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Matt -- thank you for your feedback. As Zeek do not provide actual cases (they claim it's illegal as it's could be considered a "promise of income") I have to work out a sample scenario based on what I considered to be reasonable numbers.

Furthermore, the ability to only withdraw "growth" and "point expiry" would suggest that the actual "net return" (i.e. the money that reaches the affiliate's pocket) is actually less than 1/3rd of the alleged income (the remainder were reinvested as new bid purchases). Could be as little as 1/5th. In other words, while your 1099 says you made 5600, you may have received only 1200 in real money. The rest you put back in as bid repurchase (and have to write it off as "expenses")

This "opportunity" is not what it appears to be, and that is the point I'm trying to make. Though you are correct, I may have gotten a bit snarkier than I should have in certain sections.

@ejaa -- FTC's position on Ponzi or pyramid scheme is a MAJORITY of the revenue must come from real customers (who intend to consume the product or use the service, whatever) for the opportunity to be legal. So the ratio you are looking for appears to be 51%.

Still, even this definition is being challenged by lawyers. As Zeek don't release figures, we may never know what is the real ratio.


Josephine R. 4 years ago

Im on the fence to be honest. i appreceiate your input and information. Definitely gives me something to think about. Two questions- When was this written? Rumor has it that the company has got considerably larger. Would that influence or change any of your information? Second question, "why do you review Zeek and/or other companies."? Are you paid to do reviews?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Josephine R -- This review was written in April 2012 using all relevant information and updated in May 2012 with a few bits about the tax return situation.

The company's size has no effect on the business model (though *if* it is a Ponzi scheme, the growth will delay its eventual collapse). As I don't study rumors, but actual information (such as those spoken by company's VP and confirmed by 2011 disclosure statement) I have no comment on the "alleged" increase in company size. :)

As for whether I'm paid, I'm only paid pennies per view like any other Hubpage authors. I enjoy doing Internet research and I thought I should share the information I gathered to be used by all. I have a day job (and this ain't it)


RegalBeagle 4 years ago

I really appreciated this article and your analysis of zeek rewards. It's so strange because I googled this program three months ago and could not find any mixed reviews or articles about it. All search results pointed to videos and webpages demonstrating how GREAT this program is. Now I'm finding more mixed search results with both positive and negative info on the program.

My husband and some family members have recently joined and I'm having the hardest time figuring out how this really works, if it's legal, and if it is sustainable, as they expect to be in this for quite a while and hope to quit their day jobs one day. I'm not a believer. They'd probably still believe even if I show them this hubpage. I guess they suffer from "true believer" syndrome.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@RegalBeagle -- the first articles are always written by the sycophants who are out to recruit you, as they earn $$$ that way. And as in ANY propaganda they play up the positive and omit the negative. And they tell downlines to "replicate" the stuff and it spread.

I choose to analyze the business model directly, beyond the glitz and glamor, and all the yesman messages, and see what's behind the mask, and I find it is FAR riskier than members are lead to believe.

Whether people accept that analysis and/or understand the risk is up to them. But again, if this is not investment, why must you put money in, get money out two months later, and the more you put in the more you pull out later, AND it's clearly NOT WORK? If it's not work, and NOT an investment, then what is it?

I just wrote an article about how Ponzi schemes disguised itself, and one observation is that the victims must be WILLING TO BE SCAMMED. Indeed, plenty of Madoff's beneficiaries are still fighting the clawback lawsuits seeking return of their ill-gotten gains, because they think somehow they "earned it".

You are skeptical. I hope you can teach your family and friends to be skeptical as well.


dyk 4 years ago

Have you done any analysis on JUSTBEENPAID?


JC 4 years ago

I like your analysis. What about US Social Security System?

1. One has to put money in to get money out except the return is guarantee negative

2. One's money is used to pay for the someone else. There is a great risk that there won't be enough money to pay for us

3. We are all forced to leave our money in the system until we are 63.

And we are all in this system including you....sorry!


JJ 4 years ago

Hi, Have you heard of a newcomer "Lyoness"? Would love to hear your analysis on that one. I seems legit but then again what do I know. Thanks if you have time


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@dyk -- JBP... see updates on Patrickpretty.com. I think they were just outlawed in Italy.

@JC -- Social Security is a legal system created by Congress. It shares more in common with insurance than Ponzi.

@JJ -- Lyoness... I believe you can find a review on that on behindmlm.com


Nick 4 years ago

First up, excellent review and thank you for such an in depth summary. A quick observation:

You pointed out that Zeekler needs to make $320,000 daily in gross profit. These are really rough figures, but I note that there seems to be a new item for auction every 10 minutes. ie 144 daily. So to make $320k (assuming 65c bids, all bids are paid for and not 'free' and no product cost), each item would have to sell for $34.18 (my maths is a bit shaky so let me know if I've got that wrong).

With that observation in mind, two quick questions:

1. Anyone know what the average end price for auctions on the site are? In the last 30 minutes I've seen three items close, one was for $15.11, the next for $2.63 and the last for 27.73 however its the middle of the night US time so maybe its higher or there's more frequent auctions during the day.

2. Does anyone actually know someone that has bought bids on Zeekler (ie not an affiliate but just someone that wants to get a cheap iPad or whatever) as opposed to using free bids? I'm from Australia not the US and had never heard of the site until I was told about Zeekler rewards a couple of days ago. I'm wondering if its common knowledge and popular over in the states?

Cheers. Nick


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Nick, that figure doesn't really mean anything, though I guess if you can track how many of these auctions closed and got to avreage for the day you *can* estimate the income that day. So to answer your question:

1) No, it'd be a fun project to start

2) I don't know. There are ads all over the place, but it seems to be promoted by people who are in MLMs and "get-rich-quick" schemes


Sheree 4 years ago

Thanks for a great HUB! I almost took the dive into Zeek, but it was something about it that just didn't jive right.

I noticed some of the article talks about Zeek hiring compliance attorneys to change the wording around. Now if they did hire fancy attorneys, why don't the attorneys tell them it's a ponzi/investment scheme and try to help them clean it up? Why would any reputable attorney want to work for ponzi scheme? And if it is a ponzi scheme, what difference would it make if people are changing the wording to stay compliant if it's not compliant? Doesn't make sense to me. Can you please elaborate on that?

And based on what you said about getting paid, it seems it could take a long time to get your money out..

Thanks again for a great article.


Denmarkguy profile image

Denmarkguy 4 years ago from Port Townsend

This is certainly a very thorough article that seems to hit most of the points about this rather dubious venture. There are always going to be people looking to "get rich quick" through "money for nothing" schemes, and there will always be those who insist that the system "works" because they happen to be among the 1% of participants who are getting paid.

In general, I consider these penny auctions to be like "a surcharge on people who are bad at math."

Good article!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Sheree -- I don't know what the compliance team told Paul Burks / Rex Venture Group after their review, so I don't know how many of their recommendations were adopted (or why / why not). All we know is a team was hired (some of the top names in MLM) and some changes were made. However, as I had noted, the changes seem to be rather... cosmetic.

As for why would attorneys work with suspect scams... Well, even mobsters need lawyers. :) Mr. Gerald Nehra was well known to have defended Ad Surf Daily, a convicted scam, by first certifying it for compliance with laws, and second, appeared in court as an expert witness proclaiming that Ad Surf Daily is not a Ponzi scheme. However, the judge ignored his testimony because it was contradicted by evidence supplied by the company itself. And guess who is Mr. Nehra checking for compliance now? You guessed it... ZeekRewards.

@Denmarkguy -- I thought lottery was the tax on people who are bad at math... :D


Bill DeFalco 4 years ago

Very Informative, Well Written & Excellent Article!

Difference Between a Scam and a Legitimate Opportunity:

SCAM = Shoddy Con Artist Model

Legitimate = Long-Term Gain Time And Time

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER and Ignorance is No Excuse!

- Do Your DUE-Diligence!

The More You Know The FACTS the Better You Can Differentiate Between SCAMS and Legitimate Business Opportunities like BigHomeRun.com


Joe 4 years ago

Kschang, your investigation is full of flaws, holes, and basically a joke. You can put any spin on anything to look good or bad, obviously in your case you need to create a negative spin to draw in the crowds of people to create traffic for you or to compensate for whatever else you lack....you really are a joke as i notice you are on several boards claiming everything out there is a pyramid, change the channel and the model you have created to something more productive


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Joe -- As you did not name any one of those "flaws" and "holes", I wonder if you're just making things up to suit your own narrative.


John 4 years ago

Nice try...Zeek is the real deal! I've made far more money than I initially invested and the company is completely compliant. It has one of the best attorneys in the industry who wouldn't work with a ponzi scheme. I don't know where you are getting your so called facts but you are way off. And by the way you don't have to put your money in and have to wait as long as you can to get it out. I don't know what your beef is with Zeek, but you sound like someone scorned or maybe an up and coming competitor? Get over it!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@John -- so you are trying to prove "Zeek is not a scam" with "it paid me", "you don't know what you're talking about", and "you must be scorned"?

First is a fallacy, 2nd is an opinion, and 3rd is a red herring (fallacy).

As you can't prove anything with opinions and fallacies, your overall argument is a big FAIL.

Try again. This time, with more facts and less feelings.


John 4 years ago

This is not feelings, it's business. And I've been around enough flaky home based businesses to know the real from the fake. Also your argument of Zeek Paid me is garbage. Zeek didn't pay me, it PAYS me continuously. I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you because it's useless. You have your bitter opinion and I have mine. I will come back to your page this time next year and we will talk about Zeek still being open for business. When we talk next year you might want to join my team? Just a thought.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@John -- you are twisting words, using fallacy of equivocation. You are claiming that ZR is legitimate because it paid you and continue to pay you. However, payment is irrelevant to legitimacy. Madoff paid people for like 20 years. So what? That's yet ANOTHER fallacy you manage to use.

I don't have an opinion. I have a premise supported by facts, as well as a ton of questions ZR has refused to answer, not to mention lots of concerns.

You have three fallacies and one opinion to counter my premise, plus a dare. You don't have any facts or logic. Choosing to retreat is a wise decision on your part.


Joe 4 years ago

hey Kschang, genius, you start out your entire analysis and investigation with "Zeekler is supposed to be a reverse auction site" and you mentioned it more than one time..... ITS NOT A REVERSE AUCTION IT'S a PENNY AUCTION !! As I said before, your investigation is shoddy at best, let me not embarrass you further ....this is what happens when you invest most of your time blogging, you get caught up with your opinion and misinformation


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Joe -- is that the best you can do? I never said the auction side had a problem. If the terminology is the only issue you have, and you choose to "denigrate" the entire analysis based on that single difference, then your counter-argument is still lame.

But thanks for your correction. I'll go fix that. Feel free to nitpick some more.

Just keep in mind that you haven't defeated any of my arguments or answered any of the questions.


Denmarkguy profile image

Denmarkguy 4 years ago from Port Townsend

@kschang-- yes, that is the original saying... BUT you do have to be extremely bad at math to not realize that the MacBook Pro just just bought on a penny auction site for "$113.00" actually COST you $5,000 worth of bids. Let's face it, no company is in business to give away $1000 merchandise for $150.

Funny, though... penny auctions and MOST network marketing seems like a perfect marriage, in that they both largely have their roots in a core belief that there IS such a thing as "money for nothing."

It is always interesting to watch how these discussions unfold. Although I no longer do so, I spent many years researching and writing about network/referral marketing or MLM for the business and income opportunity press. I also spent many years getting vigorously flamed by "opportunity" participants insisting their system was "legit" and "worked."

My experience was that a LOT of companies (perhaps ZR is one of them?) could pass muster as "technically" legit. However, pretty much *all* shared a common life cycle: before they became subject to serious legal scrutiny, the founders either would "change and improve" the way the company did business OR shut down and "move on to a new GREATER opportunity!!!" taking their core followers along and leaving everyone else holding the proverbial bag. Not in the legal sense, but in the sense of the 100,000 people who each put in $500 so 100 people could walk away with $100K each. Let's face it, the percentage of network marketing companies still in business after 5 years is minuscule.

Another common thread: The "1/99 rule." 1% of the participants make 99% of the money. Don't confuse that with the often touted "80/20 rule" (20% of the distributors do 80% of the work). Typically the vigorous defenders of the system (like Joe and John) ARE getting paid and "make money," because they may have had the good fortune/timing/insight to get involved at a time that allowed them to be in the 1%. And I am saying MAKING money, not "getting checks."

Because let's not forget that there are those (surprisingly many) who get a $4000 check every month and defend the company with the TRUE statement "But look! I am getting PAID!" even while they spend $5000 a month "investing in the company" and advertising. Those who consider themselves more "shrewd" (rather than just bad at math) justify it as a "business expense" since "proof" of the $4000 checks can offer a compelling argument when enrolling new distributors.

However, these folks are still subject to the same MLM evolutionary lifecycle, and when ZR (or whatever it becomes) hits maximum density, they will probably be "invited" to join the "inner circle" ("On the ground floor!!!") of whatever the new opportunity evolves into.

The (sad) truth is that much of the network marketing (or "direct selling" as the more recent buzzword goes) industry is little more than a lottery disguised as a business, since it is centered around "selling the opportunity," rather than a product... A legitimate network marketing company can continue in business regardless of whether they fail to attract new members, because their profits derive from their distributors selling to the public. But most "opportunity seekers" have NO interest in the likes of Amway, Melaleuca, Herbalife or Sunrider.

Sorry about the dissertation... just funny how things never change; new companies, new players... same arguments.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Denmarkguy -- I am not even sure ZR will pass "legal muster". To me it's a pretty sophisticated and well disguised Ponzi scheme, once the money is traced. There are likely NO bid buyers (or at least no significant numbers of them) other than affiliates.

I agree in principle about your observations on MLM. However, that's a bit off topic. I welcome your comments on one of my MLM hubs or the MLM Skeptic blog.


Janet 4 years ago

Your article appears to be well researched. The one point you didn't touch upon, is the independent Alexa Rating, which I first researched ZeekRewards/Zeekler Penny Auction site, in Feb 2012 and their Alexa rate was around 1441. May 2012 its 287. I can only conclude that something is driving traffic to its penny auction site. Correct me if I'm wrong but the difference in Alexa rating 1441 to 287 equates to millions of people visiting Zeekler auctions. I began to ask the question, assuming that they were actually paying Affiliates from 50% daily profits, and not it sponsored members, that eventually the affiliates would grow much faster than the growth of the daily profits. Can you explain the evidence of growth of the penny auction based on the increase of the number of people/, customers, going to Zeekler Penny Auctions evidenced by the Alexa rating? Perhaps they are really funding the profit pool with daily earnings, which their Attorney make claim in his MLM Periodical. Correct me please, if I'm wrong, but Mr Laggos could be disbarred if he made a material claim of that stature, and knew differently.

I look forward to your rebuttal.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Janet -- as of this reply, Zeekler's rank in Alexa is 1405, while ZeekRewards is 235. I have NO IDEA where you got 287. I can only conclude that you mixed up Zeekler.com vs. ZeekRewards.com.

Mr. Laggos is their MLM consultant, not their attorney. I believe that would be Mr. Gerald Nehra, who has a reputation of defending Ponzi schemes, such as Ad Surf Daily (and failed at even that).


naturalpath 4 years ago

Dear Chang,

Being reading through your materials and analysis.

I agreed.

I did my home-work, to analyse zeekler:

(1) How many auction ID per day ?

Less than 500 auction ID per day.

Meaning, there is less then 500 auction items.

(2) What is the average profit per auction item ?

I collected randomly 40 auction items.

The profit is not more than USD 1,200.00 per item.

(3)Total estimated profit = USD 1,200.00 X 500 auction items

Daily profit estimated to : USD 600,000.00 per day

(4) Assume the 50% profit of USD 300,00.00 to be shared by affilliate active members, 15,318.

One affiliate member can receive USd 19.58 per day.

(5) My friend received USD 70.00 per day (maximum), or USD 32.00 per day (minimum), after deposited USD 3,300 into zeekrewards.

(6) To promise 1.4% profit share with affilliate member of 15,318.

Zeekler need to make profit = USD 2.2 million per day.

This make no sense at all.

from,

naturalpath


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@naturalpath -- thank you for your data point. While it is not verified, it fits with the existing information.

It makes sense if you consider the following: the profit being shared is from bid PURCHASES, not bid usage. This suggests that vast majority of the bids purchases are NOT being used. The auctions only shows the bids being USED, not being purchased. Even if we REALLY round UP the number and say the "profit" of 500 auctions a day is 1 million (revenue, or profit?) the daily profit being shared is MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH, indicating that MAJORITY of the profit is from purchase of "sample bids", not these retail / premiere bids.


Donna Suthard profile image

Donna Suthard 4 years ago

How timely, this well written hub this is.. someone just called me, before I just came on to hubpages,to encourage me to join ZeekRewards.....Thank you..


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

I am glad to offered you useful information for you to decide for yourself, instead of one-sided sales pitch offered by recruiters.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Phelix -- read through it, unfortunately, it is horribly written. It mainly has two arguments

1) ZeekRewards is not an investment because they say it's not.

Apparently the writer of that post never HEARD of the Dewey Test (which I did explain).

2) It has hired some of the notable names in MLM Law to "consult" for compliance.

Hiring consultants does not make the business legitimate or compliant. BUSINESS MODEL AND BUSINESS PRACTICES determines whether a business is compliant with the law.

There has been no changes in the parts that affect Dewey test, so nothing there. The flow of money also have not changed: affiliates buy bids, Zeekler turns a profit, gives half to ZeekRewards (alleged), who pays all the affiliates. Affiliates are still paying themselves. Thus, it is STILL a suspect Ponzi scheme.

The post also made a series of factual errors. It couldn't get the RPP (retail profit share) right... It's 0.8 to 2.0%, not 0.02 to 0.07%. It claims that RPP is 0.02 to 0.07, then decided to use 0.01 as example!

It also committed some really stupid math errors. 0.01% of 10000 is 1, not 100.

Then there's the empty citations... While it may be true that NMMJ did published a statement that Zeek has a 25 to 1 customer to affiliate ratio, nobody can cite the source (NMMJ writer? Laggos? One of the Zeek execs? like Dawn or Paul Burks?) Nor was the raw data available (exactly how many to how many?) Nor was the exact definition of "customer" (everybody who ever bought a bid? Everybody who registered an account to bid ever?) or "affiliate" (free affiliates or paid affiliates?) given.

Overall, the whole post has a severe lack of genuine desire to examine both sides of the issue, and is instead a one-side sales piece that contains a TON of errors (factual and logic).

It's also interesting that the author's name cannot be located on the site. It's posted simply as "admin".


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Oh, very funny, now I get it. You wrote it yourself, didn't you? The Facebook and other links on the "review" goes to Phelix.

You are so bogus man.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Ryan from Boise, your full name and address wasn't that hard to find. Your LLC expired back in 2009.


Bellicose 4 years ago

Great write up! I think as many people as possible should file complaints with the FTC or submit a tip to the SEC and maybe ZR will finally get a serious look from the government. I just want to know if they consider it legal or not and wish they would just release something about ZR.

http://sec.gov/about/offices/owb/owb-tips.shtml

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/


Erin 4 years ago

Why file a complaint, how is this business hurting you? You guys are just trash talking it because you are making assumptions about how it works. What about the thousands and thousands of people that are working this program that are actually making good money? I am sure if you actually tried it and used this program you would be able to make money yourself. I am getting paid and I know of other people that are getting paid. What's the problem? Funny how the members don't seem to be complaining. Its just the people that don't understand it and want to try and destroy a good thing.


Erin 4 years ago

Also, the penny auction is not the only online company that they own. They have other online stores and programs that generate money alongside the penny auction. I think that you are forgetting to add that into your equation. These other businesses and websites have been around for about 10+ years and do generate money. The affiliates also advertise those programs.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Erin -- so you don't *have* any rebuttals other than "get a life", "it pays people", and "sour grapes" retort? Too bad all of them are fallacies. Try it with some real evidence and logic.

UNLESS you can show me where it says Zeekler is sharing profits from the OTHER businesses Burks own I can only conclude you are making things up.


Erin 4 years ago

I don't see any proof in your writing where you like to assume they are getting their money from. If you actually log into the back office there are multiple programs that we support and post ads for. Why would those not be included in the daily profit shares?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Erin -- if you go bankrupt, do you count your daddy's and mommy's assets too? That's what you're claiming: that ZeekRewards is being fed money from all the OTHER enterprises Paul Burks owned. If you want to go that route, it proves that they lied about Zeekler being very profitable.

Not to mention there was NEVER any mention of advertising things OTHER than ZeekRewards/Zeekler in company literature. Show me where exactly does it say that you joined ZeekRewards to advertise EVERYTHING owned by Rex Venture Group? No. You joined to advertise Zeekler. That was what it says when you joined. If they shifted the focus, then they lied to YOU when you joined.

Try again.


Yeezy2 4 years ago

You (the author) are wasting your time trying to explain common sense to idiots (hate to be harsh but c'mon now). I think you are quite bright, clearly much more so than many of these commenters (i.e. I'm making money from it so ur dumb). As u said somewhere, plenty of scams have been profitable (never long term, obviously). I'm no financial whizz by any means -- in fact I'm a highly attractive blonde often mistaken to be a ditz (a part I play quite well). Thus, I'm sure u can imagine how many guys I know have tried to convince me to use daddy's credit card and sign up underneath them. I believe I have a 6th sense for smelling scams... In fact, I met the notorious Scott Rothstein 10 days before he was busted and came home and told my dad "daddy I met a very shady man tonight." Everyone went ahead and invested with him anyway. Me? Hell no. You and I are far and few between and the sad reality is that too many people out there are and always will be complete suckers for any "get rich quick" scheme. If It seems too good to be true... It is. True wealth and success comes from putting in actual WORK, a concept that seems outrageous to many. I applaud you tremendously for attempting to put the hard facts out there but when it comes to making easy money, people will do almost anything, including going against that small skepticism they may (or may not) feel.

PS love the comment about not having to pay money to make money...investment costs in a start up company go without saying. There is zero of that occurring here. In fact, my father has long taught me that you don't ever spend money to make money (except in the aforementioned entrepreneurial start-up) and if u do, SCAM!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

"True believers" are engaged in ideology, not opportunity, and that lead them to many very stupid things. Still, I'd like to put the facts out there, as it seem to benefit SOME people who *are* doing their due diligence.


Jimmy 4 years ago

@kschang -- Erin is referring to FreeStoreClub and ShoppingDaisy (which hasn't been available for download for over 3 months now). Obviously the income coming from those


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jimmy -- I think you mean "obviously" as sarcasm.


Jimmy 4 years ago

Obviously the income coming from those other parts of Zeek Rewards (FreeStoreClub and ShoppingDaisy) are insignificant and likely close to zero.

(My comment got cut off, probably poor keyboard/mouse coordination this late in evening.)


DrewSpy 4 years ago

You certainly did your research regarding Zeek. But, it's June 10th now and I believe ZeekRewards 16 months old now, so why have they not been shut down if what you say is true?? Zeek has suffered through growing pains like any other young company and it seems they are doing everything they can to either remain compliant or make necessary changes to become more compliant. There will always be people on the internet doing their own due diligence on MLM's and the one's that appear to be successful ALWAYS seem to be targeted. Troy Dooly at MLMhelpdesk.com has posted several video's on Zeek..good and bad...and Nypros also reports on Zeek. And the information is factual and POSITIVE. So for everyone on this page, please remember NOT to believe EVERYTHING you read, but do your own homework. I don't know who you are KSchang....just another person with a negative post on Zeek. I would prefer to check with the Dooly's and Nypros of the world rather than some person who files his own personal review. One more thing, if you check the Alexa rankings you will see Zeek is ranked VERY HIGH also.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Drew Spy -- The problem with your response is you are looking for excuses to discount the facts and analysis I made, instead of evaluating my facts and analysis.

1) Why haven't they been shut down? Ask the authorities. Often takes them YEARS to act. Just because they have "not yet" been charged with any malfeasance means nothing. Remember, Bernie Madoff hid his Ponzi for like 20 years.

2) Troy Dooly's neutrality is doubted. Just two days ago he jumped in and intercepted a question for Dawn Oliveras, VP of Zeek, when the question was specifically aimed at Dawn. Dooly didn't answer the question either. Furthermore, Dooly's "analysis" of penny auction is strictly on the auction side, not the MLM side. He is also increasing directly answering questions for Zeek, instead of getting answers as he was supposed to. That was NOT like Troy Dooly that I knew. And even Troy Dooly himself would admit to you he made mistakes about that certain wireless company he put on fraud list, took it off, then put it back on because he found out more stuff he didn't like. So don't trust all the information you read.

3) Your intent becomes clear when you called me making "negative post". You have NO refutation, explanation, etc. for my information and analysis. Your response can be summarized as "I rather read someone else's review", with unspoken corollary "that I agree with".

You are afflicted by "cherry-picking" confirmation bias, also known as "selective confirmation". You only want to see the information you AGREE with, and you think my analysis wrong, but you can't name a reason, so you simply state you want to read something else.

You are not thinking logically, but at least you admit to it, though that "you're just negative" comment at the end really gave your thoughts away.

At least you are better than some of the more... rabid Zeekheads who started attributing various bogus motives to critics.


DrewSpy 4 years ago

Ks....let me remind you that you speculated about Montana....and you speculated about why Zeek changed banks, etc. Personal opinion and speculation is exactly that...opinion and NOT fact. You specific information on how Zeek works is accurate.. But once again, it's your "speculation" and "opinion" on the matter of it being a business. If you want your readers to formulate their "own" opinion and make their "own" decisions, then perhaps it would be best to offer what facts you know and not speculate.

I mentioned Dooley, Nypros and Alexa rankings because they are in the business of monitoring MLM's. You didn't answer my inquiry regarding your background and qualifications to offer such a review.....something any one of us can do online. From a credibility standpoint, I'm saying who would your readers rather get their reliable information....Kschang.....or from the three I mentioned?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Drew Spy -- and I sincerely doubt you'll see the issues I raised here addressed ANYWHERE else (other than maybe BehindMLM, which is also critical of ZeekRewards). It's additional information to consider. You are welcome to discount them as you wish, just keep in mind that you may be "cherry-picking" info that you WANT to hear.

Or as Stephen Colbert puts it, "You got truthiness, from the gut." when it should be truth, from the brain.

My background and qualifications are irrelevant to the facts and analysis I provide. I am not relying on my "credentials" or "history" to add weight to my argument. Thus, your demand for such is a red herring.

Alexa Ranking is for all websites, and is merely a popularity contest, or "vanity metric". At best, it proves they are popular among web surfers. It proves nothing else. If you think they somehow "prove" Zeek is legitimate, you are very much mistaken.

My speculations are very clearly labelled speculations. I did not try to pass speculations as facts. So I have no idea why you are bringing those up.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

As I've already explained Mr. Dooly's info is not 100% infallible, I will not go over it again. He has NOT covered any of the issues I raised here, AFAIK. As for why, you have to ask him.

As for Npro, that's a website written by network marketers to network marketers. It's about as reliable as a typical Amazon review: not very.

Readers need to find out ALL the info, and make up their own decisions on what to accept and what to reject. Omission of info is doesn't help any one make good decisions. Reading my hub makes them MORE informed than reading only those places that you mentioned. Whether they agree with me or not is not my problem.

I noticed that you have yet to make a SINGLE rebuttal of my facts and analysis. You are entitled to share your OPINION of my facts and analysis, but you are not actually discrediting my facts and analysis in any meaningful way.


DrewSpy 4 years ago

ks....thanks again for your review. I found it very interesting and you are correct, I have not seen anything else like it online other than this post. You have most definitely done some homework.

However, anyone who fails to mention their qualifications, background or professional insight, is a red herring to me. It's like talking to a person who wont look you in the eye. It generally means they have something to hide. Do you?

You failed to address my mention of your "speculation" and "opinion." Speculation is NOT fact based. My response above was to point that out to you. You've heard the old Jack Webb line, "just the facts mam."

In both of your responses to me you attacked me....(reply #1)

"You are afflicted by "cherry-picking" confirmation bias, also known as "selective confirmation". You only want to see the information you AGREE with, and you think my analysis wrong, but you can't name a reason, so you simply state you want to read something else."

(reply#2)

"you may be "cherry-picking" info that you WANT to hear."

I have not said anything negative toward you and have not tried to diminish what you have written, other to say facts over opinions will better inform your readers.

Again, your review was well researched and has detailed, specific information on how Zeek operates. But, your readers have a choice....check with qualified, professional people and companies regarding Zeek or believe the opinions of someone who won't even identify themselves in his posting.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

I already explained WHY I don't use my background to add weight to my premise.

You should NEVER believe someone just because they have a "reputation" or "credentials" to "prove" they are an expert. Remember, Bernie Madoff? 30+ years in investments, once head of NASDAQ. NOBODY questioned his credentials and background.

And see what happened?

And remember how NY Times and all the other famous newspapers, even Reuters, got taken by a hoax that said "IE users have lower IQ points"? Just because it was published by a "reputable source" doesn't mean it's always right.

Better to rely on FACTS AND LOGICAL ANALYSIS.


DrewSpy 4 years ago

ks.......FINALLY YOU SAID IT.....

"Better to rely on FACTS AND LOGICAL ANALYSIS."

That is exactly what I have been trying to say. STOP WITH

THE SPECULATION AND OPINION!!! It helps NO ONE and only takes away from a review like this...even if it was positive.

Just and facts. Thanks again and time will tell whether Zeek is just another MLM red flag waving in the wind.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

I have *one* clearly labelled speculation in the hub, and it's speculation because the company will NOT explain what is this "flaming hoop" they need to jump through. Why is it MY FAULT they're being secretive?

Don't you think members and prospective members need to know that the company stopped taking on new members in one state, without even telling why? Can YOU think of a reason for this to affect only ONE STATE, other than legal reasons?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Why do supporters expect the critics to use only facts, when they are using one-sided facts, omissions, logical fallacies, biased info, and such?


Clandry 4 years ago

Mr. Chang....

1. The first thing I see on your blog are 3 affiliate programs ... this tells me right off the bat you are in the business of directing people to your program.

2. Your information is wrong about why Zeek is moving banks, you make an error on payouts and, well, it goes on and on. You write well but, like most, it is all based on YOUR THOUGHTS, not any real research.

3. You says Zeek has an F with the BBB. Many do because they won't buy amamembership. BBB has no concept of home business but give you an F rating if you don't buy a membership.

Mr. Chang, I think you are a smart guy who knows how to direct people to our programs. And, who knows, Zeek may not make it long term, but this is true of every program.


silverymoon 4 years ago

At the risk of sounding not-factual-enough, speculatory, or opinionated... I have a brother-in-law who started in November, has put only $200 of his money into the system, and has pulled out almost $31K to date. He is on the 80/20 plan now, where he leaves in 80% of his bonus (translates to giving that 80% to buy more VIP points) and takes out the other 20% in cash. That 20% has been $12K for two months.

Yep. Having only put out the $200 in cash. As for time spent, he talks to a lot of people about ZR, but has only personally recruited 14 people. His downline is over 625 people.

I'm sure he'll be the first to say he worked the plan. He also stubbornly refused to put money into the system; he just gave back everything for five months, let it build.

Maybe it's a Ponzi scheme, maybe the government will shut it down, maybe it isn't sustainable. Whatever it's category or name, TODAY it is considered legit, and I know one very happy guy who has a very good story to tell. Having invested $200 and taken out $31K (over a 7 month period) he doesn't consider himself a "Cinderella Story" as there are several people in his downline taking out more than that.

This is factual. This is happening. Others will sign up and do as well, many won't. It will come to an end, yes. But those who are in it now, and those reaping huge cash rewards took the same risk as those who didn't or won't.

People walk into casinos every day and put large sums of money into a machine. They are called gamblers. It matters little whether they understand the odds; they're willingly taking a chance that it's their lucky day.

I've looked very closely at Zeek Rewards, reading everything I can find (including this hub). The loudest and most convincing voice I've heard so far is that of my brother-in-law, who originally didn't want to be bothered about the "opportunity" (being the conservative guy he is), who refused to "invest", but has cashed $30K in real money he's using to pay off cars and do home improvements. That is real. That is believeable. That is NOT speculation

The decision I face is whether to sign up and give it a whirl, or make a short trip to my favorite casino. I have money to play with, and it's intriguing to consider taking the same chance he did.

One thing I know, I won't be putting my mney in the stock market, or the bank (at 1% APR).


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Chandry -- Your concerns are addressed as follows:

1) I do NOT advertise MLM or any sort of income opportunity. Thus, I have NO IDEA what you are talking about. I can't control what ads Google shows on my blog. If you can tell me what blog do you *think* you saw the ads at, I'll look into it.

2) I speculated why Zeek is moving banks. What they *say* doesn't fit the facts. They *claim* that their bank can't handle them. Then their COO claimed they have to "jump through North Carolina legal hoops" without specifying details. Are those two events linked? They aren't saying. Can we speculate? Certainly. Why haven't they told the affiliates what bank are they using now?

3) BBB Membership is NOT required to have a good rating. Most of the rating is due to not resolving issues. If you have issues with BBB ratings, have Zeek take it up with BBB. I report what I see and the link explains why it is so.

All in all, you failed to address most of the problems discussed in the hub, but instead, nitpicked in relatively minor details.

@SilveryMoon -- I don't doubt your BIL's story. It is a very good one, and it doesn't change the analysis in this hub. People who join a Ponzi can and *do* prosper. Some of Bernard Madoff's investors took out several BILLION dollars more than they put in (and is now getting hit with clawback lawsuits).

Your BIL and you need to read the Sherlock Holmes story: The Red Headed League. Your BIL could be the red-headed man.


thertastore profile image

thertastore 4 years ago from Oakland, NJ 07436

Great writing, and nice explained with point to point..


Roly 4 years ago

If it sounds to good to be true, it usually is! the entire business plan makes no sense. If you look closely you can see this is a cleverly put together scheme made to appear as a legal business (investment). think of it this way, if people are getting paid thousands of dollars daily to merely post advertisements, then the business is in big trouble because the can get many times as much advertisement for the price from any number of online ad agency's. id be surprised of this lasts into next year.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Roly -- It may if it can keep finding... affiliates to buy bids.


Roly 4 years ago

I don't think the main problem will be finding affiliates to buy bids, there willing to give up there money without doing and research. i think sooner then later it will get to the courts, as ive noticed it a growing topic recently amongst aquatints. early this year i knew only of two people who where involved in zeekrewards( who have since stopped investing and are trying to pull out), but now i know about a dozen people involved. so one thing it is good at is growing, which i think will end up leading to its death.


SWEN2 4 years ago

Very informative review with a few holes here and there. I agree with the guy earlier who asked you to identify yourself and offer some background into your expertise and you basically refused. Credibility is everything.....in people, business, you name it. Why are you so opposed to tell readers here who and what you are? What's the big deal? Is Chang your real name?

Regarding your review, I feel it was well written but slanted toward the negative although you ask people to formulate their own opinions.

I know of Zeekler and Zeek Rewards and I know a few people involved and ALL OF THEM are doing very well and are making HUGE money on a daily basis. Perhaps what you say is true and at some point if the company doesn't make the necessary changes to write whatever wrongs they are employing, why not go enroll and go for it while you can. What is so wrong with that?

MLM companies have a shelf life anyway. Zeek and their affiliates are doing well, especially the ones who have either been in a long time of enroll with as much as 10K. Either way it cashes and isn't that what it's all about?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen2 -- You can read my profile. It's 100% true. As I said, I am NOT using my credibility and reputation to make you believe me. If you don't HAVE logic and evidence, then reputation / credibility becomes important (i.e. "just trust me on this...") If you can refute the evidence and logic, please do so. Your demand for my identity is irrelevant.

As for "slanted toward the negative", I don't repeat the la-la PR talk that the affiliates engage in. I deal with facts, not PR. Maybe they are "negative" to people who already believe in Zeek, but it surely can't match the "overwhelmingly positive" portrayal of ZeekRewards that's out there.

And why would I want to put my money in what I determined to be a Ponzi scheme?

MLM companies generally do not behave like a scam and have a business model of a Ponzi scheme. ZeekReward does. When it goes out, it'd be closer to "a bang" (like BurnLounge and ASD) than with a whimper, IMHO of course.

If you don't care, then by all means, go ahead. However, look at what happened to participants in BurnLounge and ASD before you REALLY say "I don't care about the risks, I'll ride ZeekRewards for all its worth".


SWEN2 4 years ago

Mr. Chang:

Still not clear why your identity has to be secret??? If you were doing a thorough investigation and review of Zeek Rewards, why have you not contacted Paul Burks of other top corporate officers with ZR????

You say your facts in your review are 100% accurate. I'm not so sure. Still, why not get the OTHER SIDE to the story Mr. Chang? Any good investigative reporter or someone like yourself who challenges Zeek and their practices, should give Zeek an opportunity to explain or answer to your facts that you say are true?

This is a one sided review, plain and simple. You did your so-called research and you seem to have done a nice job, but you have not told the WHOLE STORY. My question to you is why not??

It seem to be you are hiding behind a laptop and remaining anonymous, using the name KSChang to write what you will about Zeek or any other company. You do so and then refuse to give the reader any of your background? What are you afraid of? Why not at least contact Zeek and do an honest review so we, the reader, can then see BOTH SIDES and then decide for ourselves?


chinnie 4 years ago

Chang. You are all over the place ha. You must be real mad with this company. Is anyone listening to you at all? What else do you do beside badmouthing Zeek?

behindmlm.com


SWEN2 4 years ago

Say, behindmlm.com. Do you also review MLM's, or are you a Zeek affiliate. I would like to know what you think about Mr. Chang's information he says it 100% true. Do you agree, if now why?


SWEN2 4 years ago

It looks like one of my thread's was deleted! Hmmm?? What's up Mr. Chang. In that thread I was asking why you didn't try to tell the OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY and contact people of Zeek to hear what they have to say about your facts, you say are 100% true??

But that thread is not posted. What's up????


SWEN2 4 years ago

Clearly Mr. Chang.....YOU HAVE PROVEN TO ME WHO THE FRAUD IS? How dare you delete my posts. When you write such a review you need to be able to handle the heat my friend....something you clearly can't do. You are the SCAM!!!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen2 -- to protect this hub from spam, I approve every comment that was offered. Thus, your paranoia at being censored is rather amusing to watch. I think I'll leave it up there just to watch you eat your own words.

If Paul Burks or Dawn Wright-Olivares is willing to answer they can do so in public. All my sources are public. I don't do "exclusive". Given that Burks have basically bullsh__ed his way through that "OFACS" thing I would want some pretty convincing proof along with his version of the truth.

Again, you are demanding my identity which is NOT relevant to the topic of Zeekrewards. Your further demand will be relegated to the virtual garbage can.

@Chinnie -- I do a lot of things in my life, none of which is your business. Unless you stay on topic and discuss ZeekRewards, your next comment is going into the virtual garbage can.


SWEN2 4 years ago

Chang....shame on you. You call your review 100% correct and don't even make any attempt to contact the very company you are trreat trashing?? Does that sound, as FOX News would say, "Fair and Balanced?" Absolutely not and there isnt a single person on this thread who would disagree with me.

As I said earlier in a post YOU DELETED, you are an anonmyous person hiding behind a laptop writing reviews .... and afraid to let anyone know who you are or what your qualifications are. Bottom line Mr. Chang.....YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY WHATSOEVER!!!

Your review does not tell BOTH SIDES of the story because you have CHOSEN NOT TO. Simple as that. Again, shame on you.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

You seem to misunderstand the words "accurate". You seem to think it is supposed to mean "balanced".

Your persistent illusion of persecution may warrant a visit to the psychiatrist.


SWEN2 4 years ago

Look Chang. What you say may in fact be 100% ACCURATE, but all I am saying is it would have been nice had you made an attempt to get Zeek's response to your review. That would have made your review MORE BALANCED and fair.

The Zeek corporate executives are busy running a company and not searching the internet to find reviews like yours so they can file a response. Don't flatter yourself. By responding to your questions they are making their comments PUBLIC.

For the record, someone sent me a link to this review otherwise I would have never found it or looked for it online.

One thing you did get 100% correct and didn't realize it....is this:

I actually am a psychiartrist. And I would be happy to accept you as one of my patients.


SWEN2 4 years ago

And since qualifications and credentials are not important to you...perhaps you should reconsider that next time you have to see a physician. See why it's YOU who needs some professional help?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Trying to troll, Swen? I didn't say qualifications and credentials are not important. I said they do NOT take place of real verifiable evidence and sound logic.

Your persistent effort to go offtopic really demonstrates one thing: you can't discredit the research, evidence, and logic in this whole hub, so you're trying to discredit me instead. Go look up "ad hominem" if you care to.

Oh, BTW, unless you want to discuss ZeekRewards instead of me, your next comment will be denied. Have a nice day.


SWEN2 4 years ago

Chang you are a smart guy. For the record YOU were the one who said I might warrant a visit to the psychiatrist.

I gather what you have written is probably true and accurate. Actually people are raving about ZR all over the internet. Many have

tried to find more truths about ZR and to be honest about it, yours seems to be the best researched that spins a different light on this program.

Sorry for giving you a hard time, but I hope you understand that having the other side's reaction to what you have to say certainly would have made for a more complete review in my opinion.

Finally, I do think it's important that someone puts a name to their revews and background. As I said before, to me it's a credibility issue.

Will you post more information on ZR on this same link or elsewhere?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

BTW, demanding an article to be "balanced" is merely trying to perpetuate the "middleground fallacy".

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground

I don't care for Zeek's PR fluff. In fact, I already analyzed a ton of them in this hub. If they have info to share, they can release it to the public for all to see. But they didn't. The "banning 6 countries" is one, the "leaving two banks" is another, now comes "no more Montana".

This is one of the most opaque companies you'll see in public. Do you REALLY want to deal with a company like that? And how their COO blames affiliates for being too curious, wants everybody to stop asking questions to unrelated people... Without realize people are asking questions to unrelated people because the related people are NOT GIVING ANY ANSWERS!

And here are affiliates asking "why don't you ask Zeek?"

If Zeek wanted to answer they're welcome to any time, and I'll gladly update this hub (and analyze their answers).


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Oh, and Swen2, did you go Jekyll and Hyde on us? One of you is posting fromNorth-Eastern Pennsylvania, and the other is posting from Southern Pennsylvania. You also post with completely different personalities. It is rather amusing to read.


SWEN2 4 years ago

Hmmmm, interesting. Well we both know that no one can be in two places at once, so I have no idea who the other person is....

Do you have a twitter account, I would like to follow you?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@SWEN2 (the real one?) -- good, I'd hate to accuse you of split personality again. :D And I don't tweet. You can follow my blogs.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Oh, and Swen2? I don't suppose you are also known as DrewSpy? I thought that IP address looks really familiar...


observer 4 years ago

Interesting article and interesting comments. I think you did a good job of at least pointing out that people should approach with caution and understand what they are getting into.

I do want to note that even though you don't agree with other peoples comments, you may want to try to respond more professionally in order for people to take you seriously. You make many comments with caps, insults, etc., which make you look defensive rather than like a professional unbiased writer. You clearly show that you are biased and you come across like you are young and naive. You do show that you understand basic principles of business and have some witty references, so you'll get better as you move forward in your career.

All that being said, it's been fun to read.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@observer -- I *occasionally* use all caps to make a point, and only a few words. I never type the entire comment in all caps. I only retaliate with insults when they offer repeated insults. I never claimed to be professional, but I am neither young nor naive. Your point is taken in the spirit it was intended.


Really pondering... 4 years ago


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Really Pondering -- and already discussed multiple times, where Dawn blamed the affiliates for bothering all their vendors like NxPay, their bank, suggesting that was why they had to switch banks. (And as mentioned in the hub, one of the official reps said "This puts the company in danger". In danger of what? Look like a scam?)

Also note how a question directly at Dawn was intercepted by Troy Dooly, the co-host, almost like a lawyer defending a client.

Read some analysis of that radio show episode here:

http://behindmlm.com/companies/zeek-rewards/zeek-r...

http://www.patrickpretty.com/2012/06/10/editorial-...

I don't agree with all of their analysis, but the overall pattern of ZeekRewards is, IMHO, "very disturbing". This is way beyond bad customer support and "growing pains". This is outright "sweeping dirt under the carpet".


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

History of Zeekler has been updated with a new section.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Zeekler info updated: North Carolina Auctioneer Board confirmed that Zeekler did not get an auction license until March 2012.


Really Pondering... 4 years ago

KSChang although I'm hoping this is truly legit I thank you for your critical mind and constructive precise writing with a little pizzazz.

Where do you think the majority of revenue is coming from? Regurgitated from the Paid Affiliates bid purchases... People just going to Google and finding zeekler.com and trying out the penny auctions (outside money)?

I see you as the devil's advocate... but in a very positive way. To help people think and ask the tough questions.

Thanks again.

Still pondering...


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

From what I have read of various posting by Zeek SUPPORTERS (not detractors), majority of the revenue (apparently over 90%) are from affiliates buying bids, not outside customers. One guy said out of a dozen people signed, one bought bids NOT as an affiliate. No way to know if that was a repeat customer or not.

The actual ratio... only Zeek would know... if they WANT to know they can easily mine their own data of bid purchase history and match it to the affiliates data and tell which are customers and which are affiliates.

Customers buy bids to be used.

Affiliates buy bids to be "given away as promotion".

BOTH generate profit for Zeek.

But one makes the business legal and the other makes the business a Ponzi scheme.


Wayne 4 years ago

I have noticed that Howard Kaplan, touted as a CPA and tax attorney on A Zeek Page of their website, will not answer the all important tax question. That question is about deducting the bid repurchases in your back office. A tax attorney should have an opinion, but he will not give it to members. His only answer is not necessarily and to check with your tax advisor.


dosborne08 profile image

dosborne08 4 years ago from Pembroke Pines, FL

Kschang,

Your review is dead on IMO. There are too many question marks in this company if you are looking at them as a legitimate business. Would you wire money to purchase a big ticket item from a company with as many question marks as ZR?

I personally wouldn't and would not recommend it. However, if you are taking the approach as Silverymoon mentioned, by treating it as a gamble of some sort (hoping to get out before it crumbles) then I would say your money may be safer than your local casino.

I think the decision to "invest" with this company should really depend on whether or not you are willing to gamble with some money.

Good ole common sense can spot this one from a mile away!


naimishika profile image

naimishika 4 years ago from India

Before entering into any program on internet, think twice.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Wayne -- it's worse: he actually gave *bad* advice... That part about "line 2"? If you actually read IRS instructions it says Line 2 is NOT USED except for returns and allowances (breakage/shrinkage) for retailing. It is NOT APPLICABLE to Zeek!

@dosborneo8 -- Oh, I understand the part about "taking a chance", but I think you underestimated the risk in this business. HYIP usually last a few weeks. Zeek is now big enough to attract regulatory attention and when people start complaining to authorities...

@naimishika -- I'd say more than twice. :D A THOROUGH examination from top to bottom through ALL of the potential issues is needed.


mirroring 4 years ago

@kschang--I really appreciated this article and your analysis regarding ZR.

I think I read somewhere that in Your opinion ZR will run 24 -36 month. is this still Your opinion?

the truth is that I do my research to jump on the ZR wagon or not. what I can say that till now I dint find one who would give his real numbers, I mean from the beginning til now. do You have an opinion why no one wants to give out the chronology of his account?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Mirroring -- At the rate ZR is having problems, I'd be mildly surprised if it lasts till the end of this year, but I'm not placing any bets. :)

The "real numbers"? You won't find them now because Zeek has formed a special cadre of Zeek affiliates called "Zeek Squad" that went out and hunted down any claims of income on the Internet, I kid you not. Search for "Zeek Squad" and see for yourself.

Closest I see is a one-sided piece from Ted Nuyten over at BusinessforHome.org , the 2012 ZeekRewards "review", where they listed a couple "top producers" who in 2011 were making over 10K a month. One was making almost 100K a month... how?


Swen 4 years ago

KSchang.

I am curious what your motivation is to review Zeek in this manner? I would appreciate an answer.

I have mentioned before how you REFUSE to identify yourself and that you are hiding behind a computer offering reviews on a company you have NO INTEREST in contacting to get their response. I think telling one side of the story is IRRESPONSIBLE, plain and simple, whether your information is "100% true" as you say or not. Giving BOTH SIDES allows readers to formulate their own opinion.

It seems when some companies are doing well, there are always people, like you to spew negative information. All I would say to your readers is CHECK THE SOURCE OF THIS INFORMATION....and ask yourself if you want to believe a ghost, which is what you are.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen -- as I explained before, my "motivation" or my "credentials" does NOT affect the premise I presented: ZeekRewards is a business that is far riskier than it and its affiliates (and supporters) portray it to be.

Maybe it is negative information, but if it's true, why wouldn't you want people to know? Should I know what motivation YOU have for having that thought? Should I invent some, as many of the Zeek defenders already did toward me, like "you're just jealous", "you must have failed in previous MLM", and so on and so forth?

Why should I give "both sides" when you guys already shown your side? The only side you show is all the cheerleading stuff, i.e. "I made plenty of money." I am showing what's BEHIND your portrayal of ZeekRewards, and the results are not as pretty as you make it out to be. Think of me as the counterweight to your side's one-sided portrayal of your so-called opportunity.

Sure, dismiss it as "negativity", but you can't dismiss the premise as being untrue. You just don't like the tone.


mirroring 4 years ago

@kschang-- I fully agree with You. I had the same experience, I received answers like - I make good money - ZR is the best moneymaker- every week I cash out xxx$ etc.-

but no one wanted to give me any serious proof.


Jimmy 4 years ago

What's wrong with provided mostly anonymous analysis, if that analysis is accurate, can be fact checked by others and repudiated if untrue?

For example, when Paul Burks provided the explanation that the reason to ban 6 countries from Zeek, both Oz (at behindMLM) and kschang provided analysis citing actual OFAC laws & regulations, official documents from OFAC website, and responses from the OFAC itself showing clearly showing that no such sanctions exists against these 6 countries. In short, Paul Burks lied and was caught.

Even before the response from the OFAC, critical analysis by kschang showed the inconsistency in Paul Burks statement. One does not need to show ones identity to simply pose the question: "Slovenia is part of the EU and NATO, so how is it possible for the OFAC to have sanctions against Slovenia if there are none from the EU or NATO?" Surely anyone, anonymous or not, can address the issue of sanctions and Slovenia based on the facts alone.

Many critics are anonymous because they don't want to deal with the potential of retaliatory legal threats despite First Amendment rights in the U.S. For example, the Church of Scientology have used legal threats and other methods to silence their critics, yet the wonderful Internet enabled whistle blowers to speak out. If there was a real civil or criminal issue, the government can track us down based on website logins, emails, Adsense ID, etc, so it's not like kschang is posting completely falsehoods immune from any consequences.

Also, some Zeek Rewards critics have insider information from existing employees or "leaders" and revealing their identity would reveal their sources. Attacking kschang for being anonymous is just an ad hominem attack, especially since kschang has established a history of anti-scam sleuth and you can clearly see his comments are objective.

Finally, kschang, as an always objective analyst, would be the first person to make any corrections or retract any information if it was shown to be incorrect or from a discredited source. This is much different from the Zeek Rewards ML M "leaders" who will say anything to recruit others into the Ponzi.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Mirroring -- to be fair to the other side, their "compliance course" told them that they are NOT supposed to show anybody their actual proof of income, as that can be construed as a "promise of income" or something. And they actually have a cadre of volunteers called "the Zeek Squad" out hunting the internet for any claims of income that refers to ZeekRewards.

Not that any of that is going to save them from the SEC when the SEC comes armed with the Howey Test, of course.

@Jimmy -- Swen2 had posted via several IP addresses before and used multiple usernames. Know any Zeek leaders in Pennsylvania?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jimmy There are TWO separate Swen personalities above. One's from southern Pennsylvania, Fannetsburg area to be exact. That's the one that's been posting "YOU HAVE PROVEN TO ME WHO THE FRAUD IS?" but also posted this latest why-don't-you-show-your-face demand.

There's a much calmer Swen (or Swen2) that posts from eastern Pennsylvania. I don't know what game they're playing, but it's rather amusing to see it from this end.


Dion 4 years ago

@kschang I'd love it if you could go on a skype call and record put the tough questions to these "positive thinking cheerleaders" and I bet when your done with them they will feel like they have been hit with a freight train.

Anyway thanks for all your hard work you and Oz saved me thousands as I was going to get into this scam now I just have to convince my mum it's a joke.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Nah, I'm not the confrontational type.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

NEWSALERT: North Carolina Attorney General's office asked TV Station to remove misleading statement about how AG's office have declared Zeek to be legal. AG's office emphasizes that no such determination had been made. At least 10 complaints have been received by AG's office, many forwarded from other law enforcement agencies.


mirroring 4 years ago

@kschang-- sorry but I dont understand. what does this mean for Zeek?


dosborne08 profile image

dosborne08 4 years ago from Pembroke Pines, FL

A friend of mine tried to sign up with ZR and his card was declined because they said they do not do business with Korea. Any info on this?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Mirroring -- actually, the news alert does absolutely NOTHING. The problem is the misleading statement from the TV report was used by many Zeekheads to "promote" the company as in "See, the AG office says we are okay!" when AG office did no such thing.

@dosborneo8 -- Really? That's a new one. I'll query BehindMLM to see if they have any info. What exactly was the Zeek reply? I need an exact quote.


dosborne08 profile image

dosborne08 4 years ago from Pembroke Pines, FL

He called the bank because the ZR site posted a message that said his credit card declined. He knew his card was ok, so when he called the bank they advised him it declined because the charge was from Korea, and they do not do business with there.

Interesting read: http://behindmlm.com/companies/zeek-rewards/zeek-r...


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@dosborneo8 -- Ah, I believe I did mention the "mislabeled" Zeek CC transactions above. There has been at least three incidents that we know of:

* ZonaLibre1 (Panama)

* Korea

* Star Design (Costa Rica?)

There may have been more.


dosborne08 profile image

dosborne08 4 years ago from Pembroke Pines, FL

Thanks..I read your Hub a few days ago but for some reason didn't remember that information.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

It's a minor update, it may not have been there when you read it.


chironc 4 years ago

I am in Zeek Rewards and know several people who have gotten checks from the company and are very happy. I just joined 3 weeks ago and have been happy thusfar. I went to the office 2 days ago and asked about which bank they are banking with now, and they said (with no hesitation) that it is Citizens out of New York. (not an off shore bank or any other 'suspicious' place. I think that people are just suspicious by nature and want to attack things that are making money. You mentioned above that people do not spend money on a business on something they cannot see or touch but buy equipment, assets, etc. Well, when you buy advertising with your newspaper or on google, you cannot touch this. You rely on the hope that it reaches someone and they decide to go to your website or your physical business. So, it goes back to you have to spend money to make money sometimes in a new business. I hope that Zeek gets all the questions answered and that people are finally satisfied and just leave it alone. Obviously, it is successful, or it wouldn't be growing so quickly. I think this is the only problem......finding companies that can handle the growth!


SWEN 4 years ago

"Not the confrontational type" means you have NO INTEREST in getting the TRUTH FROM ZEEK officials. How can anyone reading this post believe ANYTHING YOU SAY....WHEN it's ONE SIDED???? You have ABSOLUTELY NOT CREDIBILITY WHEN YOU HIDE BEHIND A COMPUTER....REFUSE TO SAY WHO YOU ARE AND REFUSE TO LET ZEEK KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

You know they can retaliate legally.......THAT'S WHY YOU REMAIN A GHOST....Simply put....YOU ARE A COWARD!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen

Ah, this is the other SWEN, from eastern Penn, not the calm Swen from South Penn.

I don't have a Zeek membership nor do I wish to pay $1000 just to show up. If you're going, can you ask them for me? Troy Dooly was supposed to do it, but he never got back from his trip, it seems. The list of questions are above for all to read.

@ChironC -- There are plenty of UNsuccessful companies that grew very quickly, such as Wazzub, claiming 6 million members without paying out a single penny thus far, now in third month after "launch".


All Aboard! 4 years ago

This is a lot of Bull^&* and what eludes to this (at the bottom) is that it takes money to make money(he must be a Democratic looking for hand outs) FOLKS it takes money to make money period!....and if you look at other penny auctions like Qbids they make huge profits Huge


Jimmy 4 years ago

No doubt Quibids makes a lot of money. They use an effective form of advertising and aren't paying individuals $1 million per month to post spammy classified ads.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen -- as you can't keep on topic (i.e. ZeekRewards), but instead, you want to discuss my motivations, I have no choice but to deny your comment. Your insults are posted for all to see how potty your mouth is. Have a nice day. Have fun around Scranton PA.

@All Aboard! -- I'm sorry, are you here to discuss ZeekRewards? If you can't keep on topic I'd have to deny your next comment. You seem to talk about everything EXCEPT ZeekRewards.


Jimmy 4 years ago

I think the reference to '300' and '1000' for the Red Carpet Event was the number of tickets sold, not the price. I think the initially sold only 300 tickets, but due to demand, expanded it to 1000. Price should have been $25. Best to confirm that as we strive to be objective!


av8tor 4 years ago

Great read and spot on! I've been researching ZR for the last couple days as my Mom recently signed up and I wanted to make sure the company was legit but the only answer I got from her or her upline was that they don't know, it just works. I'm surprised you didn't say anything on fradulent bidding. Most penny auction sites winning bids go for around 90-98% off retail price. Most of the items on Zeekler are closer to 50-60% off retail price with several items through out the day selling for MORE than retail such as the itunes $25 giftcard that just sold for $30.01 not counting what was spent on bids. Also, the amount of bids used to win items should raise flags as I saw today someone spending 89 bids to win a 25 bid package. VIP bids cost $1 per bid and when someone bids 1,000 times to win a product with a value of $200 it's obvious somethings not right. Some people do make good money though and that's why they choose to ignore what's going on or refuse to ask questions because they don't want the answer. I'm sure my Mom will get back her initial investment plus some but it's only a matter of time before it gets exposed for what it really is. Thanks again for taking the time to put this together!!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jimmy -- you may be correct. Which begs the question: why charge $25 at all?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Av8tor -- I did mention "bidding anomalies". I didn't call them fraudulent as there is no proof of fraud. I would call them suspicious.


tkitty 4 years ago

"Most of the items on Zeekler are closer to 50-60% off retail price with several items through out the day selling for MORE than retail such as the itunes $25 giftcard that just sold for $30.01 not counting what was spent on bids.."

Will Zeek fall faster if more people start "spending" their "$" points on products for more than they are worth, like the example above and others I've heard about? Do you think more people will do this as the envirionment gets more uncomfortable?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen --Your comments are not banned for vulgarity. If you don't care to post about ZeekRewards, then you are NOT WELCOME. Calling me more names only makes you look that desperate, as they are not about ZeekRewards.

@Tkitty -- VIP Points cannot be "spent" on anything, AFAIK.


switz 4 years ago

kschang

You are correct when saying VIP points cannot be spent on anything, however what I believe @Swen is refering to is the cash award you recieve each day, if you repurchase bids instead of cashing out. Then those bids can be used in the penny auctions if you wish to do so as opposed to giving them away. I have done that myself and won a couple auctions. Nothing great but product was shipped promptly and was as promised. Have always been on the fence with zeekrewards and thinking of getting out after reading your investigation. I have a large extended family and we all got in (17 of us) for the maximum of $10,000 each $170,000 total. We have VIP points ranging from 70,000 to 110,000. We have not taken out one dollar. I am feeling its time to cash out.I was the first to hear about zeek and pass on to my family, I would feel awful if they lost their money.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Switz -- but if you actually use the bids yourself and NOT give them away, you don't get VIP points for it, right? So it's the SAME THING as cashing out.

I am simply pointing out that the risk seems to be FAR GREATER than people realize, and there's no PROOF that real profit exists from real customers. Think about it... What sort of business where the stuff you buy EXPIRES in 90 days?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Any Zeek-heads know if the "Zeek Squad", the compliance folks, actually check NON-ENGLISH sites for compliance? Seems there's a ton of Zeek-heads out there that are not compliant but as long as they don't post in English Zeek Squad don't care.


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

Yesterday I popped in ... read some... posted... and later smacked myself.

I failed to continue reading POSTS and the exchange between KSChang & DrewSpy landed very interesting read - educated debate allowing both sides to be pondered.

THANK YOU BOTH! :D

New to Zeek, personal friends who have definitely benefited in the biz; attended Red Carpet events, including May 23, 2012 in Clemmings; another affiliate that are friends with someone in the offices, etc. But each of them could well be blinded by the gains & 'zeekheaded' as someone posted, above. LOL

So -- just wish to say thank you for doing the digging & providing another look. Knowledge is power -- eyes wide open -- and will continue sharing with my peeps so they, too, can make an educated & wiser decision on how they wish to build or not build their home biz.

Can vouch, however, some of my 1st line are economically challenged, fixed income &/or single parent trying to make ends meet & other than their $10 silver & a couple affiliates under them... they place their ads, daily and watched their 100 bonus points grow -- and after 2 mths become no 'out-of-pocket' VIP points, as if they bought bids with their own cash. SLOWLY they are seeing improvements, along with added commissions from upgrades/renewals and 5% daily added by those they sponsored (1st level)... their little biz is growing. Something is better than nothing ... and if Zeek does survive... months down the road they may prove it's not totally about peeps putting $$$$ in. :)

If I see that incorrectly -- would be happy to be corrected. Seeking TRUTH to avoid the fiction.

THANKS!


Mitch McDeere 4 years ago

Zeek questions to ask before you join, or in deciding when to get out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLOSoeO5t8M


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

@kschang

"I am simply pointing out that the risk seems to be FAR GREATER than people realize, and there's no PROOF that real profit exists from real customers. Think about it... What sort of business where the stuff you buy EXPIRES in 90 days?"

REPLY== thought about it 90 day expiration-- OUCH. :~S Good point. :(


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Mitch -- not bad, but wish you'd picked something that's a bit more OBVIOUS, like Zeek Support word on Montana, or clipped Dawn's voice when she referred to Montana problems. Or post a picture of the quote from the Zeek Rep that says any one who keep asking should leave.

It's better to quote and use THEIR words, instead of the critics.


phantom 4 years ago

do you work for QUIBIDS PENNY AUCTIONS OR WAS ONE THAT WAS CANCELLED OUT


Mitch McDeere 4 years ago

@kschang

Zeek compliance does not allow any Zeek site in a language other than English and will ban the user if it is reported to compliance@zeeklers.com (yes with an "s"). The reason stated is that Zeek cannot verify non-English sites. There are many concerns from non-US countries that Zeek is not supporting them, but happily taking their money. So the big question is are they enforcing this compliance rule?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@phantom -- your question is irrelevant, but the answer is no. I am not in any MLM or penny auctions or such. Not that you'll believe me, of course.

@Mitch -- where did you get that info? I need document-able proof. Is there a Zeek site that can be cited as proof?


NoahD 4 years ago

@kschang -- very good article. I am very skepticle as I have several friends have tried to get me involved. I like to look at these opportunities from a realistic point of view rather than emotional with all the fluff and hype that Zeek heads thrive on. So here's a realistic question that I still haven't found an answer to from Zeek affiliates. Why would a company pay millions of dollars to tens of thousands of its affiliates to irresponsibly advertise at random places when they (corporate) can advertise just as much themselves more strategically and responsibly for much cheaper? Seriously, how difficult would if be for Zeekler rewards to call Craig's List to place an add in every city? Why pay affiliates to do that. It makes no sense.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@NoahD -- I can't answer for Zeek, but with logical analysis of their ACTUAL (not advertised) behavior, it's clear to me that the ad posting is merely... "busy work", much like Ad Surf Daily ponzi requires participants to "click and view ads" to qualify for payment. IMHO, Zeek is really after member's money, not their work. The fact that the PARTICIPANTS have to buy the bids to give them away, instead of Zeek do it, speaks volumes about its actual intents.


Mitch McDeere 4 years ago

@kschang -- Zeek compliance says no advertising in any language other than English. This covers both the daily ad for Zeekler and recruiting for Zeek Rewards.

Two Zeek sources you can verify:

1. It was posted here on ZRN - see #7: zeekrewardsnews (dot com) /2012/01/compliance-compliance-and-more-compliance/

2. On the Jan-09-2012 leadership call, Dawn specifically covers the compliance requirements and says at 25:14: "We are an English speaking company in America. The people who came into this company as affiliates from other companies did so based on English being spoken. We have got to absolutely put out there that you can't advertise in non-English languages or promote Zeek in foreign languages. Why? Because we don't offer multi-lingual support. We don't offer multi-lingual compliance reviews, [...] From a legal perspective, we have to do all of our advertising, all of our websites, all of our promotions in English."

Despite Zeek making audio calls available only to affiliates, and despite Zeek having removed the links to some recorded calls, you can still access them publicly because Zeek has no idea how to perform role based access for a website:

www.zeekrewards (dot com) /CC/Leadership_Call_120109.mp3


NoahD 4 years ago

@kschang -- Thanks. I've come to the same conclusion myself. I appreciate the response but with all due respect I'm more interested an answer from a Zeek supporter but I won't be holding my breath. Unless I'm missing something, not one of you questions have been answered legitimately with facts, rather, your qualifications have been attacked and redirection on the the topic at hand has been attempted, none of which is relevant. These irrelevant responses only raise red flags for me as they are common tactics to misrepresent or mislead, or just a defense for someone who hasn't done their research (from several angles, not just research from within the Zeek community). So I'm asking any Zeek supporter to please answer my question with facts or at the very least a well thought out educated guess.


BobbyCatt 4 years ago

FEI (for everyone's information)

Even if it's NOT illegal, or doesn't get shut down by the feds, Zeek may very well self destruct on their own.

Zeekreward's internal systems which have always been terrible are now even worse. As if getting money IN to ZR wasn't hard enough, now upgrade payments are getting debited from affiliate's ewallet accounts to Zeekrewards account but NOT getting processed and credited by ZR...so ZR is making money from upgrades that aren't being processed.

But of even more concern, now getting your money OUT is even harder than getting it in. NX Pay is no longer an option after being available for 15 minutes. Payza (formerly AlertPay) is processing out of Russia, so most U.S. banks won't validate accounts or process transactions, which leaves Solid Trust Pay as the only real U.S. option. Because of that fact STP's site is overwhelmed, so more payments are getting lost or not processed because of system time outs.

Commission payments are taking 4 weeks or more to be processed and now some payments are never showing up in ewallet accounts, and they are no longer cutting live checks. So your money gets lost in "cyberspace".

Good luck trying to get problems resolved. Literally NO customer service. Support tickets that were taking 4-6 weeks to get processed, are not getting handled EVER!

Chat support has 3 hour wait times and if you do get through, they tell you to "open a ticket".

But Zeekers will tell you "everything is great, it's just growing pains". I wish the IRS had those kinds of "growing pains".


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

And they are gonna blame the critics for causing a "panic" among the affiliates... Just you watch...


chironc 4 years ago

Craig's List has strict rules and does not allow Zeek affiliates to advertise there. At one time before Zeek bought this penny auction site, they did advertise all over the Internet and paid millions. As many know, the best way to get a product out is via MLM. Hence the union with Zeek and the affiliates do the advertising.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Chironc -- then why have the affiliates PAY for the advertising, i.e. buy the bids? No other merchant do that, and that's why it makes it a potential Ponzi scheme. Amazon lets you be affiliates and sell their stuff and you get commission, but you don't have to pay for "sample books" and give them away...

As for "Zeek bought this penny auction site"... I do believe that other penny auction site you mentioned was shut down for lack of auction license in Georgia. Interestingly, Zeek itself did not get an auction license until March of 2012, despite having started auctions in March of 2010.


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

Hmmm... unaffiliated peep that could use some intelligent 'comments/replies'.

Wonder if they're SCREENED like the forum & FB page - which I have yet to have ANY of my forum posts "APPROVED" in 2 mths. They're still pending waiting for monitor to approve.

Yeah ... guess it has something to do with the fact I ASKED QUESTIONS -- like what happened to the credit card options to buy bids & upgrade?

Me thinks we smell the rat y'all point out. UGH

http://workwithgrantdunn.com/zeek-rewards-review/

An interested party (I have educated to not be, now) ... found the link. :)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@John -- your spam's denied. You're welcome to share information about ZeekRewards, but you're not adding anything with that link of yours, just your own affiliateship. Is there something so secret that you don't share with the public here? Or are you that desperate for clicks?

@serafinos -- Mr. Dunn is a generic "MLM coach" which I've explained here:

http://hubpages.com/business/Six-Types-of-Network-...


NoahD 4 years ago

@Chironc -- so what classifieds are zeek affiliates allowed to advertise on that Zeekler can't do themselves more efficiently and cost effective? And does Zeek Rewards verify that these ads have been placed?

If Zeekler Rewards pay you whether or not the free bids are used, then it seems like the free bids are irrelevent to the system. So why do you have to purchase and give away free bids?


Cashous 4 years ago

Hey Mr. KSChang,

Why are you so concerned about people in the Zeek Rewards Program? Are you trying to be a lead investigator for the State government of some city or are you with Ben Bernanke at the Federal reserve?If you really wanted to expose some fraudulent operation, try and sniff out the real frauds at the US Treasury of the United States, under the leadership of Timothy Geithner, or the Attorney General of the US, Mr. Eric Holder. How about investigating the prominent Mr. John Corzine of M.F. Global, ex. US Senator a good pal, and financial whiz friend of VP Joe Biden and Pres. Obama. Or maybe Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan who just lost 2 billion dollars by mistake. I can go on and on with the outright fraud being perpertrated by Wall Street Banks, The Federal Reserve, and our very own Treasury Dept. of our very own government. Our Justice Dept. hasn't put anyone in jail yet, and this fraud against the people of America just keeps on festering. If you are so interested in saving us poor dopes from falling into the Zeek Rewards pyramid scheme, please do me a favor and go help those people in America that really got fleeced from our very own government. They didn't do anything illegal and still got burned as just collateral damage by our very government and Wall Street Banks. We are only trying to make some money to feed our families and help our families get ahead in life. All your doing "KS" is trying to be the good policeman for our sake. Thanks for your concern, but there is a bigger battle that you need to fight, if you really want to help and save misguided people in Harms Way, and that is to stop the fraud from the powers that is in our very own leadership first, then you can save us next. In the meantime thanks but no thanks "Mr. Chang".


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Cashous -- in other words, "everything else is a scam", and "get a life"? I don't expect my message to be universally accepted, but your response is pretty typical when you don't really want to call me names, but you want to imply I'm a "busybody" nonetheless. If you don't care to discuss ZeekRewards, then your further irrelevant comments are not welcome.


Cashous 4 years ago

Precisely Mr. Chang,

Why the relevance with your hard-on for Zeek Rewards? Are you trying to be my savior from the Zeek Rewards boogie- man or are you the new MLM watchdog of America. What relevance do you think you represent, the relevance of your existence or your relevance to become another big brother of society, who tells me what I should do and how I should do it. C'mon Mr. Chang you proved your point. You exposed the mystery of the Zeek Rewards money making scheme and congratulations. Now leave us alone to squander our own money in peace. I thank you for opening my eyes to a new way to make money that our government hasn't taken away from my wages in ridiculous taxes yet. you know abetter way to increase your savings? Let's hear it Mr. Chang.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Cashous -- So you don't care if it's a scam or not. As long as you make money. Right? Thanks for clarifying your moral position (or lack of one)


Cashous 4 years ago

Hey Mr. Chang,

Where are your facts that this company is a scam? What law enforcement badge to you have to dictate to people that this company is a scam?You are overstepping your bounds Mr. Chang starting rumors about someone else's business when you don't even know the true accounting figures or the real formula's that the company has implemented, to accomplish their compensation plan. All you have is assumptions. I'm I right Mr. Chang? Just assumptions! You even admitted that your not sure about some procedures that the company has in place, and how they work. So until you can qualify these so-called allegations about Zeek Rewards scam game,please refrain from your tawdry bull-crap.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Cashous -- ah, there you are, finally ready to go on-topic?

Fact 1: Company passes the Howey Test, therefore it is an investment.

Fact 2: Company insist it is NOT an investment, and indeed orders all affiliates to stop referring to it as an investment.

Combine facts 1 and 2, and you have deliberate FRAUD.

Your turn.


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

@Cashous == quite frankly - if you desire to remain clueless with blinders on and stick with a place that 'may', at best, &/or 'WILL' be doing great harm to naive people that fall prey to a scam, including Zeek, which we, along with good friends/people, recently did - go for it.

But had it not been for Mr Chang & others willingness to do the homework/digging & time it took for us ... chances are a lot of hard earned money ($2,000 to $10,000 each) ... would be a great risk. Not to mention near 70,000 VIP built up in a year (80%) a sponsor may never get out in time, since all 3 eWallets (the only way to get paid, now) having major issues &/or stripping funds from the cash available transfers that their checks in the mail never did. So far she's unable to get 2, going on 3, weeks of pay due to Zeek narrowing chances of getting paid. Yup ... the RED FLAGS are about to turn into RED FLASHING LIGHTS, if they haven't already. Only thing missing are the sirens as the Feds &/or Zeekers waking up, like our matrix, stop recruiting & affiliates start cashing in VIP ... and Zeek folds on their own. OH WAIT - it has begun, already.

Sort of starts with 2 levels above that cashed out, dropping his to $10,000... from $18,000/wk checks. Hmmm ... wonder why? The drip, drip, drip has definitely started - clock it ticking. Will they survive? Don't know... not a fortune teller. However - the duck that walks & quacks like a duck -- usually is a duck, as a pal stated the other day -- and this duck is quacking louder by the minute.

If & when a collapse happens ... will you then come back saying thank you for waking you up? Or will you come back whining because Mr Chang didn't literally show up at your door and force you to wake up?

We appreciate his time in research & sharing -- which includes putting up with those of us popping in here questioning his motives; data; knowledge, et al.

The warning signs are on the wall & posted here. We can either consider with open mind the pros/cons & weigh the odds... or ignore & gamble. If you are in a position to lose & it not effect you... great. Most of the little/new peeps aren't going to be so lucky. One month and I can vouch the system works... but at what expense. I don't want to be reliable for crushing anyone elses lives based on propaganda from Zeek. So far - that's all it's been. I'm still wondering why my legit questions on the forums -- are still pending from 4 weeks ago.

Where did direct deposit, checks & credit card options go? Along with many things already presented in previous posts from others. Hmmm... could it be they're hiding MOST of our posts accept the GLOWING ones? tick tick tick -- Just sayin'!

Mr Chang can decide to post this or not - for whom we're grateful! :D


Swen 4 years ago

Nice job Cashous!!!! Mr. Chang or Wang or whoever he is, since he REFUSES to identify himself, can dish it out but can't take it. Cashous brought up some good points. But, as he likes to do, KS will accuse YOU or ME of going off topic. He wants to CONTROL what is said here and it is clear to me that KS is much more of a fraud than his fradgulent claims against Zeek Rewards.

Why can't you answer some questions KS?????

People reading this remember this:

1. Who is KSChang? He won't tell us.

2. Why is KSChang ONLY telling ONE SIDE of the story?

3. What is KSChang's motivation since he REFUSES to tell us?

4. Why won't KSChang answer our questions regarding his credibility, or lack thereof and or qualifications to spew negativity.

5 Why should ANY OF US believe anything this person has to say bases on all of this?

Judge for yourself and remember not to believe everything you read especially when it comes from a person hiding behind a laptop.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen -- you again? Heck, even Cashous decided to get on topic, why don't you? But to answer your question:

A1: You can click on my profile, duh.

A2: Because you guys are telling the other side, duh.

A3: Because it's not relevant to the information, duh.

A4: Because it's not relevant to the information itself, duh. 1+2=3 no matter who said it, a mathematician or a kindergartner.

A5: That you have to answer yourself.

As for your last comment... same goes for you, kid... same goes for you. Don't believe in ZeekRewards because their website came from someone behind a keyboard too. The only difference is they claim to pay you (and indeed, paid many of you), and I don't.

If you don't care where the money comes from, then by all means, go ahead, stop reading.

P.S. Notice that Swen never once actually answered questions about ZeekRewards? Sounds very much like ZeekRewards official behavior: everybody just stop asking questions (or leave).

@Serafinos -- They're in "Bart Simpson I can't hear you" mode. Bart's got a bucket over his head and is beating on it with a stick so he can't hear his mom lecturing him. After a while, he's completely deaf.


Bernie 4 years ago

What am I doing here? I just keep coming back to see if they are done yet. I think Troy is never going to live this one down. If this (company) (lol)is real and survives... I give up. They are dirty with no purpose. Bids are purchased and presented as the product with a shelf life, the front load limit should be enforced. The 10k limit is more regulations for investments. Right?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Bernie -- I have no problem with the auction side. The problem is all in the comp plan itself: people are paid for putting money in. That's an investment. It fits the Howey test, yet they insist it's NOT an investment. Something is very wrong in Zeekland.

I think Mr. Dooly, if that's who you're referring to, is biased to treat it as a MLM, when multi-level portion is actually miniscule.


Bernie 4 years ago

@ kschang OK Thanks! Hey, what do I know? This for me just defies logic. Maybe today is the day, if not very soon.


Kay 4 years ago

Why did the company stop accepting Mastercard for monthly payments? Only option is VISA, e-wallet and other third party pay sites.


Kayzeekfan1234 4 years ago

Can someone please tell me what amount will be on my 1099 form at the end of the year assuming I started on Jan 1, 2012 with a $5000 "investment".

By my calculations, I will have accumulated 79,400 VIP Points, and earnings of $1058. Assuming I withdraw my initial "investment of $5000 after the mandatory 90 day waiting period and "re-invest ALL other gains, without any other withdrawls, will my 1099 form reflect only the $5000 withdrawl or will it reflect another number? If so, than what would that other number be?


Kayzeekfan1234 4 years ago

Hello, There is a lot of good information here. Thank you for providing insight.


Swen2 4 years ago

Chang...Chang...Chang...

You call that information with NO photo and that you live in SF and are a history buff a profile or a bio????????? Are you kidding?? That is a joke...period? It doesn't tell us ANYTHING about you.

Let me try to respond to your weak and feeble response to Swen's post earlier:

YOU REPLY:

A1: You can click on my profile, duh.

(ALREADY REPLIED, WHAT PROFILE?? duh!)

A2: Because you guys are telling the other side, duh.

IT IS NOT OUR JOB TO TELL THE OTHER SIDE. YOU SHOULD BE DOING THAT AND GETTING REACTION FROM ZEEK BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO REPORT BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY. IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO DO THAT. IT IS YOU R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y! duh!

A3: Because it's not relevant to the information, duh.

NOT RELEVANT? REALLY?? People who write negative information, like you have done, HAVE A MOTIVE! You choose not to say but it's quite clear to us. duh!

A4: Because it's not relevant to the information itself, duh.

Chang. Credibility is EVERYTHING, and you choose to dismiss this as an important part of someone's "review." So, it's VERY RELEVANT. duh!

1+2=3 no matter who said it, a mathematician or a kindergartner. REALLY? Unfortunately YOURS IS FUZZY MATH. DUH!

A5: That you have to answer yourself.

I, and hopefully others ALREADY HAVE. duh!

As for your last comment... same goes for you, kid... same goes for you. Don't believe in ZeekRewards because their website came from someone behind a keyboard too. The only difference is they claim to pay you (and indeed, paid many of you), and I don't.

Zeek does NOT hide behind a keyboard. YOU DO! Dawn is available and does interviews. You could choose to visit their headquarters in North Carolina, where NO ONE is hiding Chang. But you WON'T DO THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE HIDING, not Zeek or their corporate officers.

As said in a previous post. YOU are a GHOST....and it people want to believe a GHOST who won't identify himself or tell both sides of the story, they they are the gullible ones, not the affiliates who have signed on with Zeek. SHAME ON YOU!


4 years ago

Hi Kschang, sorry for submitting the "test", I wasn't sure if we actually needed to create an account with hub pages to post on your article. By the way, thanks for dedicating the time for this article.

There have been many people on the Zeek support forums worried about not getting their "commission" checks from Nxpay (a Zeek approved e-wallet). On tonight's leadership call 6/25 with Dawn, she refers to these commission checks as "payroll" or "paychecks" (repeatedly). She answered the concern of why people are not getting paid through Nxpay by saying this: ... "if you are somebody who wants to get your commissions paid through Nxpay, then you need to make your bid purchases through Nxpay that way it creates reciprocity, what goes in can come back out". So is she basically defining Zeek as a Ponzi scheme based on the definition earlier in the article above? I thought that penny auctions were their main source of revenue?

Here is the recorded call: (she says the above around 6:00-6:20)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcuU7M7B7Us&feature...

Hopefully the link above works, I went back to the Zeek support forums to copy the tiny url but an employee "removed" the response that contained the tiny url. Very weird... It says there are "55 comments" but only about 8 show up. I don't know why Zeek employee's would be removing affiliates posts especially at almost midnight eastern time... they work out of North Carolina... I don't think Zeek employees don't work that late... on their website it lists hours of operations as "M-F 8am-5pm eastern standard time"


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@kay -- I have no idea. I imagine some of the credit card processors they are trying around the world don't do MasterCard, but that's my guess.

@KayZeekFan -- according to Zeek's prior statements, every bit of your RPP is considered "income" and will appear on your 1099, whether it's repurchase or cash-out. You'll have to figure out your own deductions, as they had given no clear guidance on it. There's a section up there that tries to sort through that mess.

@D -- Hiding comments has been long noted above in the hub. They hide anything they perceive as "negative", and official reps and Dawn herself have repeatedly say "shut up and get in line" (or leave). Supposedly Zeek's going to open two new call centers, but seems they don't have the power to do anything other than open a new support ticket.

@Swen2 -- not Swen any more? Are you a clone now?

As I said before for the umpteenth time, my identity is NOT relevant to whether ZeekRewards is a scam or not. Your attempt to draw attention to such is a red herring. This is your final warning to stay on topic. Else, your future comments will be marked as spam and deleted.

Information has no "positive" or "negative". It is merely INFORMATION. Whether its positive or negative depends on your PERSONAL CONTEXT. Take the Sandusky verdict for example: his victims would say it's positive, but Sandusky family and friends would say it's negative. You are speaking too much Zeek, in looking at information as "negative".

Maybe you should ask "Why does Zeek and you think these information are 'negative'? "

Zeek officers only appear at their own Red Carpet events and appear on CAREFULLY CONTROLLED interviews. Did you bother listening to that Aces Radio Interview? When the host tried to ask a "tough question", Troy Dooly blocked the question completely, implying that if she answered it the company would be out of compliance!

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING? Hmmm?

Your attempt at derailing the discussion off ZeekRewards is rather futile. Please stick to the topic, or you'll see your comment marked as spam and deleted.

I let through about 99% of posts, even the rather infantile "show your face!" posts such as yours (and that "other" Swen, your fellow Penn state resident). Zeek hides 90% of their comments as "negativity". What are they trying to hide, hmmm?


Jimmy 4 years ago

When Dawn said "if you are somebody who wants to get your commissions paid through Nxpay, then you need to make your bid purchases through Nxpay that way it creates reciprocity, what goes in can come back out", I think she is referring to the plural "your" and the plural "you". To paraphrase:

"If you all as affiliates want to get paid commissions through Nxpay, then you affiliates as a whole need to start depositing more into Nxpay so we have the cash flow to pay you, since we will not be putting in cash from Zeek's bank account but instead are only using the 'recyclable cash' from affiliate deposits".


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

And why would Zeek do that, unless they are out of cash, hmmm?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Mitch -- thanks for the proof that Zeek "officially" only allow English, but in reality there's millions of non-English Zeekrewards mentions out there. Google says so: 220K in Spanish, 180K in Chinese...

http://i.imgur.com/CpqUG.png

@D -- see the latest updated section, Dawn basically lied about how eWallet works, and as COO, she's supposed to know such things. This may be an indication that Zeek is having cashflow problems, which is a MAJOR danger signal to all affiliates.


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

In other words, regarding NxPay "RECYCLING" affiliates money...

Zeek isn't REALLY paying us for placing ads; commissions; % of auctions; et al... and IF we want our "Cash Available" paid to us ... we need to 'buy more bids' to put OUR money into NxPay) to get our "Cash Available" that should be paid by Zeek/Rex Venture. So we actually end up not getting paid at all. We'll be "recycling" our own money... as Dawn said - "zeek won't using their banks money". Am I understanding that, correctly?

ie - If an affiliates VIP stands at, say, 10,000 points & they decide it's time to move on to a new adventure or pay unexpected bills or for whatever reason they wish to remove some or all of those 10,000 bids... they will need to (Dawns words, paraphrased) ... "buy $10,000 worth of MORE bids" - deposit into NxPay... in order to GET those other 10,000 VIP pts converted to "Cash Available" waiting to be paid with?

Why wouldn't the "Cash Available" not be all one needs to 'deposit/transfer' into NxPay be enough?

Zeek/Rex Ventures aren't going to PAY affiliates from their bank ... is basically what she's saying. Right?

Thus - one more step towards red flags to FTC &/or AG diving in - Just sayin'! ;)

This sucker ain't a sucker anymore! lol


chironc 4 years ago

Zeek is expanding soon and people will be able to buy their favorite items through zeek affiliations with major retailers. This was announced on the call yesterday. The major problem is how fast Zeek is growing. Who are you Chang???? Who pays you??? You must be glued to your computer. Lol.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@chironc -- if they are expanding... where's the 50+ million they made in 2011 then? Or the alleged profits from 'rapid expansion' in first 6 months of 2012? The *same call* says unless you affiliates put more money into ZeekRewards you're not getting paid. Why don't you explain *that*, hmm?

I'm going to ignore your lame derail attempt at the end for now. Beware that further attempt to derail topic and insult me will cause your comment to be denied. Same rules goes for everybody.


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

@Chironc -- will let you know if the $200 Cash Available in a pals account gets to go thru NxPay, today -- without having to deposit her own $200 to get that $200.

DO THE MATH == KSChang has ONLY been pointing out the FACTS that are right in front of our faces. RECYLING our own money means -- what you have in the account now & use NxPay -- it's not coming out.

Thus -- why send any money to NxPay to get what is supposed to be paid by Zeek. The clock is ticking -- and the ponzi is about up. Hope people wake up.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Serafinos -- some people are resistant to facts. Much like Cypher in "The Matrix", they prefer to live in their own dream world unencumbered by "reality". I don't know if Chironic is like that yet, but there are some signs.


Jimmy 4 years ago

Zeek is going to add a 'zeebates' toolbar to give you a 'rebate' on purchases. It's nothing more than an affiliate commission on top of a toolbar, and Zeek probably is going through a third party that takes 25% off the top, then Zeek takes their cut, then you're left with what's left of the 'rebate'. Buy from Amazon and get what, 3% rebate while Zeek takes 3.4% and third party affiliate merchant (such as viglink and skimlinks) takes 2.1%.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

So in other words, they're gonna copy Lyoness? :D


Ena 4 years ago

Chang... I loved reading your post. Thank you very much. I have signed up for Zeek and am paying the $50 a month fee. I also have signed up several people under me (at $10 a month) and my points are growing VERY slow. I'm assuming this is because I have not put any money into my account except the monthly subscription fee. I'm a little worried now and think I might get out before it’s too late. What do you think? Should I wait until the 90 days are up and take what I can? Right now I have 150 points? By the way some people that are making remarks on this page are totally stupid :-D.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Ena -- I would ask you to make up your own mind given ALL the evidence available. Though I would think that with 150 points you'll take out pennies per day at best.


Jimmy 4 years ago

If you are going to play the Zeek game, you need to balance your monthly cost with your initial investment. It doesn't make sense to pay $50/month if you don't put in a large enough investment to cover your monthly costs, unless you plan on recruiting a lot of people and building your account balance that way.

The bigger issue is the overall risk at this point with all of Zeek's claimed "growing pains". Is it really "growing pains" or is Zeek having serious cash flow and other legal/banking/regulator problems?


jmicchael1a profile image

jmicchael1a 4 years ago from Springfield Illinois

I was a Zeekler for about 17 days. I admit to being gullible concerning income opportunities on the internet. I have a less than appropriate expertise regarding making these decisions. That said, I truly appreciate your hub. It validates what was no better than a gut feeling when I terminated my association with Zeek. I do not believe I would have lived long and prospered there. Thanks again.


arwen9 4 years ago

Knowledge is power. Kschang has delivered the facts from his research, and each person on this blog has the freedom to take it or leave it. Those who think he has a hidden agenda have the freedom to not read his information. No one is being forced to read this. No one is forcing anyone to stay with Zeek or leave it. I, for one, appreciate the information (that I am choosing to read) so that I can use my own brain to make my own decisions. I look forward to more informative posts from Kschang.


Truth Reporter 4 years ago

I signed up for Zeek Rewards as a free affiliate to do some investigative work. So far I've made a few discoveries.

Why does Zeek Rewards promote and encourage affiliates to sign up with Solid Trust Pay "STP" (an e-wallet, online global payments provider) to pay for your VIP bids or to receive your commission payments? Solid Trust Pay (STP) is a MLM opportunity itself. They charge you fees to put money into your e-wallet and fees to take money out of it and these fees are split with the upline (zeek rewards). When I registered with STP I was immediately given my own "affiliate link" and a brief explanation of how much money I could earn with STP if my "downline" had X number of people deep that signed up for STP using my STP affiliate link. Then I thought... how clever of Zeek Rewards to double dip and make money twice on the money that you are about to pay them to buy your VIP bids aka "your investment". Then I went into my back office of Zeek Rewards and low and behold when you click on STP from the back office the url has Zeek's affiliate number in it.

https://solidtrustpay.com/index.php?r=114589996

I haven't done any research on the other 2 "zeek recommended" e-wallets but I'm sure they will have the same exact deal.

Almost every Zeek affiliate is signed up with STP. No wonder Zeek doesn't recommend any other e-wallets because there is no money to be made using them...


Truth Reporter 4 years ago

Another discovery I've made is about placing my daily Ad.

The only real Ad I've placed was on the first day I joined, which was about a month ago. From then on, I've either copied the same URL to the Ad I placed a month ago or simply just typed in anything that I wanted. I click "submit" and I get the message of success... "Ad Submitted for today". If you are being "paid" for doing your job (placing your ad) then you would think there would be some sort of quality control to ensure that your ad was placed or even some kind of "duplicate" error/alert when I've pasted the same link to the same Ad for the past 15 days.

All of you "zeeklers" need to stop being so close minded and you will see that Zeek doesn't give a shit about your Ad. They want your MONEY. Try what I've tried and you will see for yourself that placing an Ad is simply a joke...


Truth Reporter 4 years ago

Zeek COO tries to explain e-wallet blunder in terms of fast food. Article released today 6/26/12:

http://zeekrewardsnews.com/2012/06/zeebates-all-in...

In the end, she still says the money is "recycled" but never explains why Zeek just cant deposit a lump sum into their e-wallet account... Here is an excerpt:

[although Zeek is fully capable and willing to “deposit” into our eWallets…the preferred model of the banks behind those eWallets is…that what is being “spent” by customers and affiliates is what is IN their individual eWallet and that THOSE FUNDS are what (preferably) can then be paid back out of THAT eWallet in the form of payroll back out to the field.]


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jmicchael1a -- I am glad to have contributed to your knowledge. Check some of my other articles about potential dangers of MLM and see if it helps you avoid the shady deals.

@arwen9 -- thank you for your support. It is sometimes quite lonely being a lightning rod of all the wrath of devoted affiliates attacking out of fear and ignorance.

@truthreporter -- I have reported on STP before in relation to TVI Express scam. I didn't know they have an affiliate program, but it may bear looking into later. As for her "excuse", that was included in my latest update. :)


Truth Reporter 4 years ago

On Zeek Rewards "About Us" Page:

"ZeekRewards provides a world-class Affiliate Services Department."

Oh really? I've tried to call Zeek numerous times, all without success. I've documented my attempts to call Zeek today 6/27/12:

10 AM - Queue position #99

12 PM - Extremely high call volume, no Queue available, phone automatically disconnects

2 PM - Queue position #100

4 PM - Extremely high call volume, no Queue available, phone automatically disconnects

9 PM - Not sure if they are even open but I was in Queue position #60

Lets say that I was to continue and hold being #100 in line. If an average call lasts just 5 minutes, that's a total wait time of 500 minutes or 8.3 HOURS.

The online "chat" is even worse. As soon as you click "chat" and attempt to type in your name, the chat immediately closes and you are shit out of luck!

World class my ASS!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@TruthReporter -- one can be "world-class" in both best... and worst.


Jimmy 4 years ago

@Truth Reporter

To be fair, most affiliates did not sign up through Zeek's affiliate link for STP but they do have an aff link in the back office. Most people sign up because their sponsor tells them to open an account. But the affiliate links do raise questions similar to the adsense blocks on ZRN. Why does a company making millions a day need a few adsense clicks.

Also, if you are #100 in the queue, your wait time is not 100 x avg wait time, but technically 100 x (avg wait time / number of phone reps) since they work in parallel. The worst I have heard is hr, 46 min wait time and support rep says open a ticket.


DnD100 4 years ago

I had to break this in to 2 post so this is part one

First off I will say you did a great job mix truth with fiction and emphasizing your speculations. I really had to read it twice to wade through the BS.

You stated that Rex Venture Group has a F rating with the BBB which is true. But unlike you I will give a little info about myself I own a construction company in the state of California (yeah I know taxes suck) for over 12 years and I recently checked my BBB standing which was a D- with no complaints so I contacted the BBB and asked why I had that rating they stated it was because my info was not verifiable. So I completed their little questionnaire during the course of all this they tried to sell me to become a member which I respectful declined. After all of this well and behold I have C+ rating. I called back again and of course they told me if I became a member it would clear all this up which I did (because times are tough and I don’t need any negative propaganda) after paying their extortion money I now have an A rating still with no complaints. So you using this against Zeeks shouldn’t hold any water because they decided not to pay the extortion money.

In your very first scenario how do you get that the average bidder spent 200 bids plus 5 to try and win an android tablet? You know this because you bid 200 plus times on this item? So everybody else did? So with your math there were only 6.25 bidders on that 1 item that sold for 12.50? Hmm 12.50 on an item that sales for 100 buck somebody got a deal.

You said and I quote “There are some anomalous patterns. Some people are using ridiculous amount of bids, such as over 1400 bids (valued at approximately $910) for $100 cash And that's just ONE PERSON, not overall number of bids (that's believed to be over 5400 bids)” Are you the one person? So winning a 100 bucks for 14.00 zeeks is ripping people off?

Next you post this because of an error “Clearly, the daily profit share is NOT calculated, but rather, INVENTED and MANUALLY ENTERED. How else can they mistakenly typed in 8.9% instead 0.89%”

Let see there is some magical script out there that takes several different companies and merges each of their profits and just inputs it? The listings on the penny auctions just appear nobody has to input them? You have never had a bill from the phone company, credit card statement, with an error? Somebody has to input the information along the way so this clearly just a bone head statement!

You missed your calling on this one you should have been a politician I love how you mixed 2 facts to make this seem fraudulent. “However, the number is known to vary from 0.9% all the way to 2.0%, with an average of 1.4% or 1.5%. To put it into perspective, a noted scam prosecuted by the SEC and US Secret Service, "Ad Surf Daily", offered "rebate" of 1% on weekdays and 0.5% on weekends”. So what your saying is if Shell oil stock holder makes .09% to 2.0% on their stock they should be prosecuted by the SEC? And zeeks offered a rebate of? When?

Next “ZeekRewards hired several prominent lawyers and attorneys as well as MLM expert Laggos to check for compliance.” So what you are saying with all the regulations that the federal government passes down each year .(( From FoxNews (Do you get that in SF) “Obama administration regulations on new business rose to 3,573 final rules in 2010, up from 3,503 in 2009 -- the equivalent of about 10 per week”.)) Any business that hires attorneys to stay complaint with the law is guilty of something? There are 1000’s of businesses that start out without the advice of attorneys that need help later on down the road with all the regulations. But if you are a know all be all of business can you tell me how Obama Care is going to affect my business oh wait in the words of the San Francisco politician Nancy Pelosi “We need to pass this bill to find out what is in it” she don’t know what regulations will affect businesses and neither do you.

Source : Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/12/regulat...

Next you talk about what happened in 6 countries internationally “Speculations were rampant, with at least one MLM supporter speculating that this had to do with FTC Warning about Penny Auctions (except this makes no sense as FTC is an American agency dealing with American law, so why ban international affiliates?) One Zeekreward response claimed this is due to actions / policies from those countries, NOT ZeekRewards. Members in those countries will be only refunded their monthly membership and initial bid purchases. All VIP points earned are lost.”

So let see Zeeks made good and returned all money to the people in those countries so ZEEKS scammed them in some way? Just because some countries don’t allow some business practices this makes Zeeks illegal? You as an American can’t buy land in some countries does this make you guilty of something?

“ZeekRewards currently has no comment or clarifications, leading to outcry among other international affiliates, both in and out of the affected countries. There are also reports on how the company is only using a free Gmail address to process refunds, and is very slow or just flat out not responding to queries. This however, cannot be confirmed.” If there are reports where are they? If there are reports why cant they be confirmed oh I remember you put this whole article together without ever trying to get a response from ZEEKS!

Again I love how you take some truth and twist it. Next you talk about profit sharing “Assuming 1.5% compound daily, and 100% reinvestment, 100 points will become 244 points in 60 days. However, this is all "virtual growth". No actual money has reached your pocket. Instead, you have paid in at least 100+10+10 dollars into the system. If you spend the next 30 days (before the first 100 points expire) doing 100% withdrawal, you can draw about 3.5 dollars per day (steadily decreasing). which should mean you will make back your $100 and a bit more so it's a zero-sum game. If you play a longer term game you may actually make some money.” You are correct that no money has reached your pocket but in the stock market it doesn’t either until you cash out. The more points you have the more you make just like in the stock market the more stock you have the more you make when it goes up or lose when it goes down. Yes the longer you keep your money in you make the compounding interest that is why its encouraged but you can start taking from day 1.

This points to three fundamental problems:

1. They say this is not an investment, when it works just like an investment

2. Business model makes no sense, as ZeekReward is a pure loss center with no gain

3. People who put in a little money gains virtually nothing

1. You buy points from day 1 and they disclose that when you buy in. You get VIP points for posting ads the more you post the more you sell yes with 1000’s of members not everyone is selling bids every day. But in January when the 2012 Mustang was auctioned off points where selling like mad as they were VIP points that need to be used not the FREE bids.

2. In ZeekRewards business model What fact do you have it is “a pure loss center with no gain”?

3. People that put little money in gain virtually nothing. So you were one of the lucky ones that bought Microsoft stock at 20.00 when they first went public and have made millions? Most returns are based on the amount of equity you have meaning the more you put in the greater the returns that’s the way it works in the real world with startup businesses and financial backers.

In response to your coment on the SEC” Howey Test” you question item 4

1. investment of money

2. in a common enterprise

3. w/ expectation of profits

4. solely from the efforts of others

According to Alexa.com and other web traffic sites in the last year zeekler as risen up the charts. Without the advertisements of its affiliates do think that zeekler is driving traffic to their own site with out it? IF you don’t advertise you don’t get paid so how do you make money soley from the effort of others?

See post 2


DnD100 4 years ago

Post 2 continued

Here we go again mixing things together to make what you want them to say so now we go to ponzi scheme

“A1. Does Zeek Rewards promise return on investment? Absolutely yes, esp. before February 2012” Can you point me to where Zeeksrewards promises any return?

“A2. Does Zeek Rewards have an underlying product that is legitimate? Or merely fraudulent disguise? NOT EXACTLY. Zeekler does have a legitimate product: bids.” You say not exactly but zeekrewards sales bids for zeekler and advertise for zeekler. So this was just a good place to give anyone reading your article to see the word fraudulent? Then you say

“However, people don't buy bids for the bids. They buy bids to get VIP points, and returns are earned on VIP points, not bids.”

Then explain to me how zeekler site traffic has exploded in the past 8 months if no one is going to the site and no one is bidding on the product.

“A3 Does Zeek Rewards require continuous influx of new members to provide payout to old members? PROBABLY YES. If you solely analyze by logic alone, the answer would be no”

Here you go again without any facts to support what you are saying.

“However, people are using bids very strangely. The cases where people used like 1400 bids (worth $900) to win $100 in cash are actually quite frequent.” What is strange they buy bids they use them isn’t that what they are supposed to do? Duh

People used like 1400 bids to win a 100 bucks so lets do the math here someone won a 100 bucks for 14.00(equals 1400 bids) but let see here if there was only 2 people biding ( you would need at least 2) that would 700 bids each(700bids x .65 cent = $455) yes that would be crazy but in the auction world including Qbids, Ebay, ect people bid to a certain amount then someone else out bids them and so on and so on the people that probably won only bid a few times. So again what is strange about people using bids isn’t that what zeeklers is about penny auctions with bids?

I can keep going all the way down. But all you ever say is “howey test” which I will redirect you to the above. All I can say is Zeeks does work it does pay its parent company has been in business 15 years I really don’t care what kschang thinks I just don’t want you spreading bullsh** about a company that you know little about. Just because you can throughout a few court cases that do NOT pertain to Zeekrewards or zeekler you know it all. But KSChang you wanted someone to ask questions I have so answer my questions? (I left out the one about your credentials since we ALL know we will never get that answer).


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@DM100, why, thank you for at least taking the points seriously and attempt to analyze them point by point! I do believe you are the *first* ever Zeek supporter to do that, and for that, I thank you! Though I believe you are truly unique... a Zeek follower who is NOT a zealot. But let's go onto your analysis.

1) BBB rating is not a total reflection of business -- yes, there *are* cases of BBB abuse in some chapters. However, according to your own anecdotal evidence, this should be VERY EASY for Zeek to clear up. Why haven't this been done? After there, Zeek is awash in money, right? BBB member fee is what? $500? I'm sure Dawn gets a bigger check than that in a day. So why haven't this been done? Perhaps the ratings are real? Can't evaluate the chances of that.

2) Did someone get a deal when you count the cost of the bids? I seriously doubt that. If the bids are free, absolutely. When they cost $0.65 each? Not so much. Why did you think FTC has an alert and warning on penny auctions?

3) WHERE does it say on ZeekRewards that all of RVG's business profits are tabulated together and shared with ZeekRewards members?

It's always been advertised as you advertise Zeekler, you share in Zeekler profits.

4) Regarding the banned countries... So all those folks who joined early and worked for a year posting ads and everything did it for NOTHING. And you don't considered that being "scammed"?

5) I don't see you refuting that ZeekRewards is an investment at all.

6) Zeekler gains profit, and zeekReward gives them away. Why is it not a loss center?

7) So you agree that ZeekRewards is an investment? (based on your rebuttal 3)

8) Your missing the point about part 4 of the howey test. Howey test is talking about the INVESTORS benefiting from efforts of OTHERS (i.e. management). And trivial activity like clicking on ads, or recruiting, is NOT managerial type decision / effort and thus do not count. Those are clear-set precedents. Go look up SEC vs. Glen W. Turner Enterprises and SEC vs. Ad Surf Daily.

9) You insist I did not cite any facts, regarding Howey test, when I did so before. Perhaps you quoted out of context?

10) Ebay bids are free, so comparing to them is bogus.

11) Zeekler traffic increase doesn't mean anything. Explain why ZeekRewards shows 4 times the traffic of Zeekler when all the ads are for Zeekler?

12) And I already explained Howey Test does NOT accept "posting ads". It's trivial work, and confirmed when Zeek erased work and not paid them for at least six countries.

13) Your questions are at least intelligently formed, but most of them are already answered in the Hub itself. You simply chose to ignore them.

14) I've already answered the question about my credentials: they are not relevant to whether ZeekRewards is a scam or not. Perhaps you can refer to above answers.


zeekrocks 4 years ago

one sided article from an idiot with no credentials ....dont care to correct you.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@ZeekRocks -- What does credentials have to do with the truth? I don't post cheerleading stuff... Your fellow Zeek Zealots do. Your (lack of) action proves nothing really needs to be corrected.


jadenconnor 4 years ago

Seriously, do I need to have credential/college degree to point out that shit stinks?

Anyway, do I think Zeekreward is an investment company? Yes, I really do think so. Why? Because Zeekreward invests the money it receives from investors/affiliates.


jadenconnor 4 years ago

"Then explain to me how zeekler site traffic has exploded in the past 8 months if no one is going to the site and no one is bidding on the product." Quote by user DnD100 .

Honestly, I checked out the zeekler five times so far, but I didn't sign up or bid on the product.

"Zeekler traffic increase doesn't mean anything." Quote from Kschang


dosborne08 profile image

dosborne08 4 years ago from Pembroke Pines, FL

Kschang,

I am just wondering. You have done a very nice job with your research. The future of Zeeks , just like any other company is up in the air.

Clearly you see it as a scam, but are you just hoping that it fails sooner rather than later.

Are you "rooting" for it to fail?

Once again, you have done a very good job getting your information out there, but from this point anyone that has read your Hub should absorb your information and choose whether or not they want to get involved with this company. That is on them. I think there is subtle difference between trying to make people aware of potential danger and hoping that they fall prey to the danger, only to stand over them telling them, "I told you so". As I am writing this, I realize that it may only be a "perception" that you have that stance, and it may be formed because you have to defend the stance of your Hub and the many that are attacking it.

The reason I ask is because I have found myself in many situaions where I try to steer someone out of danger, but the whole time I am praying that they never encounter it, and if they do, I would not be happy to tell them "I told you so".

Are you "rooting" for it to fail? Or is it just a perception?


jadenconnor 4 years ago

" Does Zeek Rewards promise return on investment? Absolutely yes, esp. before February 2012” Can you point me to where Zeeksrewards promises any return?" Quote from DnD100

Zeekler is misleading folks with these statements.

"Zeekler.com's paid advertising division where our Premium affiliates can earn daily profit-share awards on every VIP bid they buy or sell through the ZeekRewards Retail Profit Pool!" Quote from zeekler

"Whether you're a part-time non-recruiter or a seasoned sales professional, ZeekRewards offers you an opportunity to create whatever income and life-style you desire." Quote from Zeekler


jadenconnor 4 years ago

"Does Zeek Rewards have an underlying product that is legitimate? Or merely fraudulent disguise? NOT EXACTLY. Zeekler does have a legitimate product: bids.” You say not exactly but zeekrewards sales bids for zeekler and advertise for zeekler. So this was just a good place to give anyone reading your article to see the word fraudulent? " Post from user DnD100

Can you recover all or some of your money if this business fails?


jadenconnor 4 years ago

"Next you post this because of an error “Clearly, the daily profit share is NOT calculated, but rather, INVENTED and MANUALLY ENTERED. How else can they mistakenly typed in 8.9% instead 0.89%”.. Quote from user DnD100

That is a serious mis-calculation, don't you think?


jadenconnor 4 years ago

DnD100, are you telling us that Zeekrewards doesn't have the money to pay BBB to get an A rating just like you?


jadenconnor 4 years ago

"There are 1000’s of businesses that start out without the advice of attorneys that need help later on down the road with all the regulations. " Quote from use DnD100

DnD100, Zeekler and ZeekRewards are owned by Rex Venture Group LLC, a subsidiary of Lighthouse America, US (NV) company. The company was established on June 24, 1997.

Dude, are you telling us that after running the Rex Venture Group for 15 yrs and he just recently hired an attorneys to take care of legal matters?


Swen 4 years ago

Ouch....Looks like the Ghost Chang just got his hat handed to him. Nice job @Dnd100....who, by the way, was NOT afraid tell readers here WHO is he, unlike the Ghostman himself. And thanks to Chang for giving Dnd100 some credit. That caught me by surprise but your response to his "taking you to the woodshed posts," was extremely weak. If this was a prize fight, score it knockdown and a 10-8 round for @Dnd100....if not first round KO!!


BigSouth 4 years ago

I just found out that you can't get out the money you put in to ZR. So, if I put the maximum 10k in, I will never be able to take that money back out...only draw a smaller amount at a time until maybe I get my initial investment back. That in itself was a huge turnoff for me. Plus, my brother-in-law keeps bragging about having over $60k in his affiliate account. I told him to go ahead and withdraw half so I can see a big check...oh...that's right, he CAN'T.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@JadenConnor -- while your help is much appreciated, you may have quoted me instead of Dnd100 (yes, I did misspell his handle when I replied) in one of those responses. This comment system doesn't have a "quote" feature which makes it tough to track who said what.

@Dosborneo8 -- I'm not rooting for anything. I want to see a company legal as much as any one, even the Zeek affiliates. The problem is when I see a problem (or even a potential problem) I point it out and expect something to be DONE about it, a real something, not some "newspeak" whitewashing. Zeek Affiliates, on the other hand, are almost universally "I don't see any problem because I don't ask questions! Why are you so negative?"

@Swen -- Hmmm... is this the calm one or the rabid one? DnD100 handed me a couple salient points... but most of the questions he posed are rhetorical ones already addressed in the hub itself. Clearly, you were so happy cheering for him you missed my response to him already posted.

@BigSouth -- correct, the bids you buy and traded for VIP points are just that, gone. You can only get back the money in dribbles. Though with 1.4% to 1.5% "daily" if you do 100% cash out you may get it back in 2-3 months.


dosborne08 profile image

dosborne08 4 years ago from Pembroke Pines, FL

Kschang,

I am always in favor of the more information the better. I believe things always work out better when you ask the, "Who, What, When, Where Why and How". Nothing wrong with that! I'm glad I came across your Hub and its now up to everyone to proceed accordingly.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Dnd100 -- my full response to your comment is on my blog

http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/06/full-respo...


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Gabe -- thanks for the link. It's been taken care of.


Ena 4 years ago

I love how the only defense to kschang’s post is his “credentials". It is somewhat humorous actually! If someone points out FACTS and they can be verified then what do credentials have to do with it!!

"Then explain to me how zeekler site traffic has exploded in the past 8 months if no one is going to the site and no one is bidding on the product." Quote by user DnD100 .

I have been on the zeek/zeekler site 1000 times and not placed ONE bid!!!!!!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Some people turn a blind eye to the truth. Willful ignorance. Cult-speak: Zeek decreed that negativity does not exist (try reading their support forum requirements). Thus, whatever KsChang said does not exist.


Swen2 4 years ago

Credentials and credibility are EVERYTHING!

Unfortunately Chang would prefer to continue to HIDE and be the GHOST he apparently is and continues to be....

There HAS TO BE A REASON WHY. I wonder if Chang, whether his information is factual or not, is afraid of repercussion from those companies he writes about. Why else does he REFUSE to identify himself?

Why doesn't Chang STAND BEHIND WHAT he writes? As has been written here before...HIS REFUSAL IS A HUGE RED FLAG....period.

And STOP saying who you are is irrelevant? That is NONSENSE.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen -- Credentials are only important when you are not providing facts and logic to back up your answers.

Tell me, does it matter who said 1+2=3? A kindergartener, or a mathematician? Or a panhandler off the street? What's true is true no matter who says it.

You can't discredit the premise by attacking the speaker. Get over it.


Jimmy 4 years ago

On the gmail issue, not only does ZRN have the gmail address, when money is sent to/from an eWallet, it comes from Paul Burk's gmail address. On the Zeeksupport forum, all the various troubleshooting threads ask affiliates to send their account information to a gmail address, such as ' zeekurator@gmail.com'.

Not sure why they can't just use Customer Support Ticket system rather than have all these different methods of contact. Of course, I haven't had a single support ticket answered except for them closing it because it was open too long. I've submitted 12 tickets in the last 5 months.


Gajafa 4 years ago from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

@Kschang

I believe its an attempt at poisoning the well fallacy.

Y said X is bad

X said Z tastes good

Z must taste bad because Ysaid X is bad.


Gajafa 4 years ago from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

@Kschang

Do you think some people have discounted the strong possibility that alot of the traffic on zeekler.com is from the zeek affiliates themselves, not real customers? If you examine the alexa traffic from the click stream, a very high proportion of Upstream Sites is from the same website. Which sites did users visit immediately preceding zeekler.com? zeekrewards.com and downstream sites: Where do visitors go after leaving zeekler.com? zeekrewards.com

Funny Troy failed to notice that..

Gabe.


jadenconnor 4 years ago

KsChang, thanks for your response. You did a wonder job in responding to user "Dnd100". You saved me a lot of time in typing. By the way, do you think Troy Dooly is a supporter or a ? affiliate of Zeekrewards?


Swen2 4 years ago

I am NOT attacking the speaker as you put it. You, the speaker and moderator or whatever you want to call yourself, have NOT given us ANY REASON WHY you don't want to be identified.

WHY? To me and I am sure MANY OTHERS , this is an apparent RED FLAG.

So, Chang, when you YOU going to answer and give us the TRUTH, since you say the truth is what you are reporting? Why are you NOT identifying yourself???

An honest answer would be appreciated.....and not one that skirts the issue.


jadenconnor 4 years ago

Seriously, how can you put money into this company, don’t have to sell anything and still earn a guaranteed 125% return on your money? HOW? Folks, I truly think this is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its affiliates from their own money or the money paid by subsequent affiliates.

Here is my simple question to all seekrewards members. Can I submit a daily classified ad anywhere on the internet? If the answer is yes, then can I place an ad on my own blog each day and still earn a guaranteed 125% return on my money?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Gajafa -- I am not sure Troy is neutral, but he seem to think himself as neutral. There's a difference in perception that is causing some confusion.

To which comment were you referring to about that poisoning the well? If you are referring to Swen's persistent demand for my identity, as in "Kschang can't be trusted if he won't show his face", then yes, it's basically a reverse of "appeal to authority", i.e. "distrust anonymous pleads".

@JadenConnor -- I don't think Troy Dooly's an affiliate of Zeek, but he's too close to the trees to see the forest, so to speak. And some of his more recent behavior forced me to re-evaluate his supposed neutrality.

@Swen -- you are sure persistent. A reason was offered to you. You pretend you didn't see it. That's hardly my problem, is it? Why do you think "blind taste tests" exist? So you are not affected by packaging or the brand. I offer you content without packaging, and you insist on seeing the packaging, and you claim this is relevant? Hah.

You've been warned twice already (more than twice, come to think of it, as you insist there are two of you). Discuss ZeekRewards, or your next comment will be denied.


jadenconnor 4 years ago

Swen or Swen2, are you a affiliate of ZeekRewards? Can you show us the screen shot of your big return from your investment? Yes, I said "Investment".


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@JadenConnor -- actually, that's not really relevant, as there's no way to authenticate that, nor is there a way to prove it's not anecdotal fallacy.


jadenconnor 4 years ago

Kschang, this is the main reason why I keep coming to this hub. You keep it real and straight to the point. you are unbiased. You separated the fact from fiction. You also pointed out the positive and negative comments from all members. By the way, you are right about there is no way to prove that ZeekRewards is an "investment" company. However, I just feel that ZeekRewards is an investment company, because according to ZeekRewards income disclosure statement from 2011, they have over 15k active members/investors/affiliates. And to me, ZeekRewards falls under an investment company category, if you go by FTC rule. In my opinion, I think Paul Burks is operating a Ponzi scheme and selling unregistered securities.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jadenconnor -- you mean SEC. FTC goes after pyramid schemes.

There's enough to heavily suspect that it will pass the Howey test with flying colors, thus confirming that it's an investment. Additional revenue sources they are trying to add are to divert the issue about part 4 of the test.


Swen 4 years ago

Time will tell gentlemen regarding the future of Zeek Rewards. One thing is certain, at this moment Zeek continues to grow unlike anything many MLM'ers or Network marketers have ever seen before. There is certainly a big reason for that.

Screen shots are not necessary. Just look at how well this company and its affiliates are doing. Proof is in the pudding and there are thousands of people making HUGE incomes thanks to Zeek. Call it what YOU want to call it. But there is NO denying its current success.

As you gentlemen know, there are always people shooting arrows at those at the top...it comes with the territory....because people simply want to knock successful people and companies off their perch. Guess it's human nature, I'm not sure.

SO, until someone or some agency deems Zeek a ponzi scheme or illegal, why not let them be because words, like the words, written here, are only little arrows that are only meant to harm a company that has a 15-year track record of success, plain and simple.


Gajafa 4 years ago from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

@Kschang re poisoning the well I was referring to Sven dragging ur name thru the mud by resorting to Ad Hominem Abusive.

So what do you think about the zeekler traffic coming from zeek rewards affiliates? Do ZR affiliates bid AT ZEEKLER ? I think so. Re TD-sure he is on the inside, rubbing shoulders if you will, seems like a nice little happy family but you would expect that, simply being pro MLM removes some sort of impartiality already without even reading the blog.

@ Sven -Actually we're all anonymous on the net. KC doesn't want to be identified because there's a thing called privacy, ever heard of it? Isn't that why people have usernames rather than writing their full name, DOB and Street address as the username. For all we know you could be a crazy disgruntled affiliate and stalker! Besides, if you bothered to check, KC provided just as much info in his profile as DND100 put in his post.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen -- looks like the calm Swen is back. You're like Jekyll and Hyde, man. Switching personalities at random. :D There's gotta be two of you. So why use the same name?

Any way, growth doesn't mean much. Ponzi schemes grew very rapidly too. Ponzi's scheme (the original) started in 1918 or 1919, and collapsed by late 1920. He started from nothing, to controlling over 30 million by the end. That's over 200 million by present day standards.

Ponzi paid off $750 profit for investment of $1250 in 90 days when he got started. People were lining up outside his office begging to put in their money. So what?

You're just trying to perpetuate "bandwagon fallacy", Swen. You can do better.

@Gajafa -- must be that "other" Swen. :)


DnD100 4 years ago

@jadenconnor

To anwser your question yes you can post an ad anywhere including newspapers, billboards , blogs wherever except caigslist.

But i would still like my question answered where do you see 125% guaranteed? can you send me the link?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Dnd100

so how do you "verify" to Zeek that you posted such an ad in newspaper or non-online media?

Can't post the URL here, but try appending blogspot to myzeekrewardblog Definitely NOT compliant, but it is there.

In fact, if you search Google for ZR and 125, you'll see it USED TO BE on the Zeek webpages itself. (it's since disappeared)


DnD100 4 years ago

Quote Bigsouth "I just found out that you can't get out the money you put in to ZR. So, if I put the maximum 10k in, I will never be able to take that money back out...only draw a smaller amount at a time until maybe I get my initial investment back."

BigSouth what you are looking for is a bank account not a business.

If you buy a business or start one from scratch you lease the building, buy the product, pay the insurance and turn on the lights, (Oh wait can you take your money out that you have in NO). So you open the doors and sell the product that you purchased and make a profit (can you get out the 1000;s you invested STILL NO. You get it back slowly has more and more people come and buy your product!

At least with Zeeks you get a commision on what everybody sells not just you.


DnD100 4 years ago

quote "@jadenconnor

" Does Zeek Rewards promise return on investment? Absolutely yes, esp. before February 2012” Can you point me to where Zeeksrewards promises any return?" Quote from DnD100

Zeekler is misleading folks with these statements.

"Zeekler.com's paid advertising division where our Premium affiliates can earn daily profit-share awards on every VIP bid they buy or sell through the ZeekRewards Retail Profit Pool!" Quote from zeekler

"Whether you're a part-time non-recruiter or a seasoned sales professional, ZeekRewards offers you an opportunity to create whatever income and life-style you desire." Quote from Zeekler

end quote

I dont see a promise here I the word opportunity. let me get the dictionary out make sure they didnt chage the defintion

op·por·tu·ni·ty/?äp?r?t(y)o?onit?/

Noun

a good position, chance, or prospect, as for advancement or success

NOPE no promise there dont see guaranteed either


DnD100 4 years ago

kschang

So because cocaine was used it coca cola we assume that since they did it in the past they are still doing it NO.

So if Zeeks did say 125% at one time i have never seen it and I have been in zeeks since october 2011 why do you keep saying they are still promissing or guarantee? Your statements above imply that they are still doing it.

Copied from my back office where i post my ads daily.

"Copy and Paste the ad confirmation link from your email inbox.

If you chose an offline ad type above, then you must enter the website address of the offline ad company."

Again i dont see how you can bash a company you know so little about.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Dnd100 -- you can sell the business, duh. :)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Dnd100 -- Only "expectation of return" is needed, not guarantee. Already explained that in my "full reply".

As for "125%"... *you haven't seen it*... I thought you wouldn't resort to anecdotal fallacy... Guess I was wrong.

Why is asking you for verification about offline ad posting considered a bash?

And how is Zeek going to verify the ad with the main website? Or you simply don't *care* if they do or don't? Or perhaps you don't ask such questions?


DnD100 4 years ago

kschang sell the business in today’s economy to who for what kind of loss?

Asking the question should of would of been good investigating isn’t that the name of this article”

Analyzing ZeekRewards and Zeekler, is Zeek Rewards a legal business? Read detailed Investigation here."

The bash is the article

Look if you want to cheat the system you can with almost anything. IF you want to grow your zeeks business you want people to come there spend some money. Do you not understand this is a business with real money real 1099's real profit? If people don’t spend money at a business it goes broke. Just because this is an online business doesn’t mean we don’t need real customers or Zeeks will go broke. That why when someone such has you self that obliviously does not know the working of the business and post an article like this one piss me off cause this hurts my business. To you this is just fun you have nothing to lose pick one the #1 MLM what will hurt? 1000's of hard working people that has invested a lot of time and hard work growing their business.

Does Wal Mart have people that go around and make sure there billboard ads are on the billboards of course not they assume that the business they hired is doing what they paid them for.

If zeek geeks do check your ad better be there or I’m sure they will retro take back what they paid you.

Ask what question they tell you "Dont post Dont get paid"...


jadenconnor 4 years ago

"""If you buy a business or start one from scratch you lease the building, buy the product, pay the insurance and turn on the lights, (Oh wait can you take your money out that you have in NO). So you open the doors and sell the product that you purchased and make a profit (can you get out the 1000;s you invested STILL NO. You get it back slowly has more and more people come and buy your product!""" ...Quote from DnD100

Sir Dnd100, if your construction business go down the drain can you put some of your construction equipment/tools up for sale and recover some of your money back?

If you are investing with ZeekRewards can you cancel your investment and get your money back? If ZeekRewards go down the drain can you get some of your money back?


jadenconnor 4 years ago

Dnd100, sorry, I can't post the link here. Hint: go to behindmlm website and listen to the audio by Zeek Rewards’ Sales Director, Darryl Douglas . you will hear the 125%. I laugh and laugh listening to this guy speak.


jadenconnor 4 years ago

Man, I truly think Troy Dooly is a supporter and a affiliate of ZeekRewards after seeing him hugging with Zeek Rewards’ COO Dawn Wright-Olivares . lol


jadenconnor 4 years ago

DnD100, how much have you earn from ZeekRewards? I would like to give it a try just by posting spamming ads. By the way, according toZeek Rewards’ Sales Director, Darryl Douglas, you can post an ad on craiglist. Once again, listen to the audio by Darrly Douglas at behindmlm website. Go to yahoo or google and type the following:

The origins of Zeek Rewards: A 125% ROI guaranteed


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@JadenConnor -- to prevent spam, I approve all comments, and you're repeating a couple. This system is not perfect, but work with me here.

That Darryl Douglas clip is from 2011. So it *is* old news.

As for the posed photo between Troy Dooly and Dawn Wright-Olivares, that's a PR photo. They're supposed to do that. I wouldn't read too much into it. Dooly is a well known MLM advocate.

@DnD100 -- interesting, you demand to see proof that Zeek had made 125% ROI guarantee, then once you saw it, you insist it's in the past and it does not matter. You are employing "no true Scotsman" fallacy, i.e. "shifting goalpost".

"The bash is the article." Hmmm.... Didn't you read the intro? I don't sugarcoat facts. Truth can hurt. Sometimes, a lot. All depends on your context. If you have a lot to gain from Zeek, then obviously you'd consider anything that casts doubt on Zeek as "negative" or "bash". Maybe you're the one with the jaundiced eye?

It's also interesting you didn't bother asking how many "real customers" Zeekler really have, you just keep repeating "people" are bidding at Zeekler and it's paying its affiliates, when real customers is the ONLY thing ZeekRewards is SUPPOSED to get, and makes it legitimate.

Furthermore, you basically admitted that you think Zeek's ad posting requirement works on an honor system and spot check system: you may get away with NOT posting ads for a while. In fact, Zeek heads are telling each other, just open up a free blog and post your ad in the blog itself. Not that anyone will read that, but it'll satisfy Zeek's requirement.

It's clear you *assumed* that you'll be penalized if you don't do it. Can they really check half million ads a day, if that's the number of affiliates now?

As for your other comment... "To you this is just fun you have nothing to lose pick one the #1 MLM what will hurt? 1000's of hard working people that has invested a lot of time and hard work growing their business."

You are *assuming* you're in a legal business. I hand you evidence suggesting it isn't. You are welcome to ignore it as you wish, but the evidence is real. You can't deny their existence.

Almost every Ponzi scheme victim thought they are involved in a perfectly legitimate business, and not all Ponzi schemes involve investment. Go look up "Pigeon King International". 1000+ farmers lost over 100K each in that Ponzi scheme, and it was marketed as a business opportunity: breed pigeons.

Don't *be* a pigeon by believing blindly the company's narrative.

You have a stake in it, so you are affected by sunken cost bias, plus a host of other biases. Think about it. SERIOUSLY.


Chris 4 years ago

Do you realize the only reason he continues his rant with this blog is because hubpages.com is making him passive income for his blogging. He chose MLM companies such as Zeek Rewards because he makes money off of all the people that post on this blog and he know it is a hot topic right now. Great Job KSChang, you are a real genious.


DeepOceanTT 4 years ago

I really enjoy reading all your analyzing of zeek.


Ena 4 years ago

So I tried to "chat" today with a zeek rep. On their website I clicked the link on the bottom right that says “we are here – chat now”. After tying in my name, e-mail address, and reason for wanting to talk to someone I got the following msg:

“One of our representatives will be with you shortly. You are number 271 in the queue. Your wait time will be approximately 652 minute(s). Thank you for your patience”

So they didn’t really mean now? I’m very patient but not sure I’m 652 minutes patient!! LOL :)


christopher 4 years ago

Wow, you didn't even approve my response because you know its true. you're only making money off this blog aren't you. Tell us the truth, you picked Zeek Rewards to target because you know it's a hot topic that will attract people to your blog. All you care about KSchang is your own money you are getting from this blog. Wave the white flag and give up.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Christopher -- if I approve your comment right away you accuse me of have no life beyond a keyboard. If I don't approve your comment right away you accuse me of censorship. No matter what I do you'll find something to criticize. Guess that's what cyberbullying feels like, eh? Having fun?

Your attempt to rationalize your hatred of anyone asking questions of Zeek (such as I) is rather amusing to observe, but ultimately irrelevant. As it's not about Zeek, but another attempt to "poison the well" and "ad hoc ad hominem", i.e. attack your opponent's "motive", not his position. I could link to a list of unethical debate tactics, but I have a feeling it'd be over your head.

Critics are seldom listened to when they first offered their opinion. People have questioned Madoff as early as 1999 but it lasted until 2008. Pigeon King ponzi was questioned in 2007 but didn't die until 2009. Business in Motion was revealed as a pyramid scheme by no less than CBC TV in 2008 but police filed no charges until 2011. Many of those whistleblowers were ridiculed, and some were even accused of running an extortion plot. Heck, didn't DnD100 up there accuse BBB of being an extortion plot?

So @Chris, I didn't censor you. I *do* have a life, and your comment's approved... This time. However, you are warned... discuss ZeekRewards or Zeekler, or your next comment will be denied.

And I find it extremely ironic that someone also going by "Chris" was at MLMHelpdesk calling for Troy to deny my comments as "negativity". Would that be you?

@Ena -- the support problem is rather ridiculous, but it's an operational problem, not an endemic problem. It's a symptom, not a disease, if you will.

To take this analogy one step further, all the affiliates insist this is just a cold, Zeek will get over it in no time. The skeptics and critics like me, on the other hand, are pointing out all the OTHER symptoms Zeek has, and warns this can be something MUCH MORE SERIOUS than a mere cold.

And we were shouted down with comments like "you're just being pessimistic and negative!" "You just want attention!" "You just want controversy for your blog/site/hub/whatever!"

If I want controversy I'd make a Youtube video to go viral. THEN you'll see real controversy.


Jimmy 4 years ago

"I could link to a list of unethical debate tactics, but I have a feeling it'd be over your head."

Ad hominem? Just saying... :)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jimmy -- Good point. Debating with people who use unethical debate tactics has... contaminated me. I need to go wash my mind. :D


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

ReadingItAll relayed a news from ZRN... apparently Zeek fixed the STP problem and promised ACH, NxPay, and AP (AlertPay?) to be "functional soon". Thanks for the update. See what sort of action a bunch of angry affiliates will make a company do?


Jimmy 4 years ago

Let's see if they actually fix the problems before Troy's July 4th expectation. Many are still waiting for STP payments. STP check requests are taking between 22 to 30 days as reported on various STP forums. AP is not allowing bankwires, only check withdrawals. AP has stopped taking credit cards. NxPay isn't working yet, and many are still waiting for their 6/25 NxPay payment. Credit card purchases are still getting declined by most credit cards for bids and monthly affiliate subscriptions resulting in a fraud alert that has to be cleared.

By the time they "catch up" with current outstanding payment requests, the next week's payment requests will be due...


ReadingItAll 4 years ago

If and i mean really IF there is 1.4% profit DAILEY why nog all millionairs put 1.000.000 $ in it why is the interest as it seems not comming up in there minds?

Why do Banks only pay 2-3% a year and they put the money there?

they are millionairs so i think they know the way to make money... but they are not interested in Zeek.... Maybee Kchang has a open vieuw on Zeek? Or the millionairs are rich enough and don't want such a profit?...


ReadingItAll 4 years ago

OH and another thing...zeeksupport.zeekrewards.com isn´t available anymore... hmmm maybee

`ReadingItAll relayed a news from ZRN... apparently Zeek fixed the STP problem and promised ACH, NxPay, and AP (AlertPay?) to be "functional soon". Thanks for the update. See what sort of action a bunch of angry affiliates will make a company do?`

they read also here and they don´t want the big news should not be shared? if all is true they said last night they should be very happy sharing this news with all people who think Zeeks is not honest?

Kchang i think ...or better i KNOW now your right :) happy it only cost me till now 10$ only as i was just curious if it is possible after 60 days if Zeek lives that long i wil cash out 70/30 profit so i get my 10$ back :P if not than it was a bad gamble but i do dailey on pokertables so 10$ ain't the end of the world :)

to all Zeek people, try to cash out 50/50 and get ur money back, just in case :)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@ReadingItAll -- well, someone did say that Social Security should invest in Zeek. :D Then we'd all have plenty of money to retire on. :D

I already reported that ZeekSupport is being pulled behind the memberwall.


Jimmy 4 years ago

If you are a free affiliate you can access the Zeek support site.


ReadingItAll 4 years ago

I hope Greece is going to Zeek and Italie and Spain all the crisis is solved in 90 days in Europe :)


switz 4 years ago

kschang

i was gonna go to vegas with my $10,000 3 months ago, instead i put it into zeek and purchased 10,000 bids. my vip points are now at 50,000. i have not taken out a penny, but will go to a zero repurchase starting tomorrow. that will put $800.00 a day into my cash available. i will do so for 30 days and aquire $24,000. Thats a $14,000 profit in 3 months. i will also retire 14,000 point over those 30 days so my vip points will be down to 36,000 and we can start this fun ride all over again except this time i'm sitting on $14,000 profit and playing with house money. all your points are very valid and i do believe the clock is ticking on zeek, but then again the clock is ticking on many businesses out there. who knows. i look at it like this, zeek is a new hotel that has opened on the las vegas strip and is giving the best odds that any hotel has ever given in the history of gambling. dont play with more than you can afford to lose, and know when to quit !!!!! in your opinion and educated guess how long before zeek is done. ps you won't hurt my feelings if you tell me i will be lucky to get my money back in the next 30-60 days.

regards,

switz


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Switz -- glad you agree that there's NO WAY Zeek's a sustainable business. I posted before I'll be mildly surprised if they last till end of the year. I think I'll stick with that prediction for now... unless something major changes.


SChoi 4 years ago

@Sven, @Christopher, et. al. Do you realize desperate and silly your posts make you look to an outsider? Are those the best arguments you can come up with? L-O-Fricken-L!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@SChoi -- Chinese has an expression: those inside the scheme are confused; those outside the scheme see clearly. They are inside, and have a frame of mind very different from those of us who are outside.


Steve86 4 years ago

Good insight on the overall business model. My question is why is Costco not a scam. They get 50-100 dollars from each customer before they walk in the door. They havent sold one product and they have made tens of millions of dollars. How is that legitamite? I guess because we are lured in by the fact that we might get cheaper products if we join the club. Since we are consenting to pay the 55 bucks without getting a thing then its our own stupidity and therefore its OK. People line out the door at this place to get at this stuff which alot of it is just average at best. Online auctions no different, if you are stupid enough to think you are going to win the raffle you deserve to lose your money, that is the risk you are taking. Lotteries should also be shut down according to the Zeek model as well as any raffle or casino.


ReadingItAll 4 years ago

I read on forum they payout is really delayed some got nothing for weeks/months ... if you get it... i hope for you... if you get it it was a great gamble :)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Steve86 -- I am not quite sure are you actually serious about your question or just trolling, as you are quite close in tone with the "So what if it's a scam, so is everything else" fallacy.

Costco is a "buyer's club", and cost for joining, at less than 100 a year for basic membership is less than 2 dollar a week, very reasonable for the amount of savings they are providing their members. There are separate laws governing Buyer's Clubs. A buyer's club also do NOT promise their members an "income opportunity".

Furthermore, I've never raised ANY issues with Zeekler except the part where online auction of currency may be illegal lottery. Most of my issues is with ZeekRewards.

Casino is indeed illegal in most places except certain specific locations, and online gambling is illegal in the US in general. The only lotteries in the US are run by governments (state or local).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_gambling#Unite...


Steve86 4 years ago

"So what if it's a scam, so is everything else" fallacy.

Thats exactly what Im saying. Not EVERYTHING else, but there are some business models out there that are and nothing has been done about it for years.

Zeek rewards is a short term thing, It will go away but the auction part will stay. You just cant sustain those kinds of returns especially when affiliates are accumulating 50-100000 points. Even the tons of money made on auctions cant sustain that for very long.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Steve86 -- so you think Zeek is doomed to failure. Wouldn't that reflect poorly upon the industry if it fails?

I actually doubt Zeek makes enough money from the auctions to cover the payouts. I am quite certain most of its payouts are from AFFILIATES buying bids to giveaway, NOT from regular customers buying bids to bid on things. Which makes it a Ponzi scheme, and I explained my logic in the hub.

So there are essentially three outcomes:

1) Prolong the life of Zeek as much as possible (and let it suck in more affiliates before it fails)

2) Leave it alone, caveat emptor

or

3) Hasten its death so something more sustainable can survive

Which path would you pick?


Observant 4 years ago

I appreciate this review. I am very, very scared. I started pulling out my money but if it gets shut down, what will happen? Will those of us who are pulling our money out as fast as we can be liable for that later? Will they come after us for payment? Please advise soon! :(


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Observant -- in general, only the company execs are in trouble.

In the Burnlounge case, FTC also went after the top 3 affiliates (who apparently made the most sales).

So despite the excessive use of the word "claw-back", the affiliate "grunts" are usually NOT on the hook.

Not that I know how would the authorities react, of course.


Ovservant 4 years ago

Okay thank you very much!!! I appreciate this blog. It is very enlightening and you have backed it up with so many facts. Now I just hope others will see it for what it is. There is no reason affiliates should be paying affiliates if they are making the type of money they claim they are from the auction. The money is recyling


kschangsucks 4 years ago

kschang, i truely enjoyed your blog. Thanks to your biased opinions and unethical rebuttals, you have been the topic of laughter for the past two hours amongst a couple hundred people in my firm. I'm only responding to this blog this once because I will not contribute to you making money off this blog. I could go on for days and pick your whole theory apart but i am not... Quoting you "its irrelevant" because you will find your own things to twist and turn and use them most likely to try and discredit anything I say. What I can say is that your writing and rebuttals are hilarious, instead of spending so much time on this blog you should spend time on looking how to expand your talents at making a complete fool out of your self for having a mind so one sided. I cant tell whether your 21 or 15 by the way you write but you do sound VERY young and Immature and you lack knowledge when it comes to reviewing, specially Zeek Rewards. With everything in life its a gamble or risk, what ever you want to call it. Its funny because just about everyone I know that does Zeek Rewards brings in over 3k in cash monthly and who cares what you have to say about that because one things is for sure, we all make a-lot more money than you and I on the other hand know this because one of the many successful things i have ever done is master web marketing and you my friend are stuck on this hub trying to make a penny when you could be finding other tasks in life that could pay you far greater amounts than your hilarious comments and rebuttals about the Zeek business model generate you on this hub. I just feel bad because your wasting your time, Its obvious Zeek until now is Legal, its why it hasn't been shut down. Nothing in life is for ever or lasts for ever so stop wasting time with the negative comments and take advantage of an opportunity that is paying big on returns.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@whatever -- Since you didn't bother providing me with examples of alleged "biased opinions" and "unethical rebuttals", your entire comment is merely one long "ad hominem" attack, filled with "get a life" rebuttal, "I made money" rebuttal, and other fallacies. Heck, you even threw in a gambler's fallacy at the end: it will continue to be so because it always had been.

Which REALLY makes it hilarious, as *you* are the one making unethical (and fallacious) rebuttals, yet you accuse me of doing so.

Your rant will go into my soon to be published "hate mail display case". Thanks for the sample.

Oh, and I hope thunderstorms don't ruin your July 4th, but then, weather forecast in Boston Area says scattered T-storms. Sucks for you.


WasInsideNowOutofIt 4 years ago

I am glad you did, do, and continue to follow thorugh on this company, Zeekler and its Zeek Rewards. I saw the writing on the wall when it was first presented to me. Ponzi Scheme! Ponzi Scheme! What amazes me is the number of people who actually have such a desire to "get rich quick/slow" who literally only see what is presented to them. For my money, I must receive a good or a service. Why do people think they can put in thier money and be rich in a couple of years by placing an ad each day and additionally putting in their money (INVESTING) in a company who says don't use the word "Investment." Yes this company is shifting money around right now becuase ethey know the end is coming soon. Some MLM are comparable to gambling. This company amazingly use its promoters to train others and they act like walking parrots! They repeat exactly what the trainers tel them and there is no mental thought beyond that. Sure they pay out... for a while... and just enough to keep some spreading the word. Bottom line is this is a scam, no matter how long it lasts!


SChoi 4 years ago

@ kschangsucks Trying to save zeek by posting here is a noble gesture, but you really need to do is remind people not to come here first, because once they do , it was too late. They buy 0% repurchase.

Please recruit more and more and buy bids.


kschangsucks 4 years ago

@SChoi, its not that i'm trying to save Zeek its just that when a person is going to open there mouth and say anything and want people to listen or think its true, they have to back it up. Not like this clown though, all he has is, he was probably a good English major and he most likely sits with a dictionary and thesaurus when he writes. If your going to post something of this nature have the balls to back it up with cold hard facts not facts that you twist and turn to make you feel good about your self. I'm a lawyer and if its one thing I can tell you about this guy KSchang is that hes a coward at best. That being said lawyers know a-lot more than regular society about companies legal problems and what is and what is not happening behind the courts and the FTC. Rex Venture Group is not an any Legal Trouble right now, its simple to verify too. The government is not even attempting to shut them down. Tell your pal lil Chang to make some calls to the FTC and ask around since he wants to act like he's a reporter and all and only does a half @*& job at it. All i'm saying is this guy has no credibility, he's just some weirdo who sits behind his computer and and has orgasmic fallacies about Zeek and the way its run. Now that I think about it KSchang is most likely one of those few people who do call the FTC and makes complaints about Zeek. Only because he doesn't have a right set of sacks to take risk just like all of corporate America does.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Whatever -- so because I don't like what you like and I see some legal problems with it, I don't have the right set of balls?

Rex Venture Group is not in legal trouble now, but it has NOT addressed the issues that may cause it to be in trouble in the future, IMHO of course. You are basically assuming that it never will because it hasn't, with no explanation WHY, and that's a gambler's fallacy.

From your "balls" statement and your repeated use of logical fallacies, I extrapolate that you think with your balls, not with your brain. I don't have enough data to prove it, but you're sure providing some very interesting sample data.


Obama 4 years ago

I been follow this kfc guy on a few of his post. It seem to me that he's a private investigator trying to get more information from zeekhead and customer. He can track down any account and know who they are. My advise to you is not to get harrass by this guy.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@O -- stop making things up, will ya? I'm just a guy behind a keyboard. I investigate stuff by performing Google searches. You can too, you know. It's not that hard if you know what to look for, and I actually explained how to do exactly that in other articles I wrote.


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

ROFLMBO @Obama -- talk about impersonating someone.

Ever thought that, just maybe, KSChang has been proven absolutely correct & how grateful many of us are the ones which his TIME, ENERGY and RESEARCH saved loads of money from being lost? Fact is - we have 2 pals which we fear have lost $2,000 & $10,000, unfortunately

. They, to this point... aren't able to get their newly 'invested' money back.

Haven't noticed where he's necessarily asking for information to be given -- he's been posting experience with other MLM's &/or Ponzi schemes -- which mirror what is exactly happening with Zeek.

Even Madoff was claiming "all is well..." while in handcuffs.

Zeek is doomed -- whether by their well drying up -- or being shut down. If in fact KSC's warnings stop anyone else from joining -- Zeek should be able to survive just on auctions alone -- IF, in fact, they are real. Considering I, along with a few other pals, have spent a few hours just watching the auctions. Why is it... they never get down to "3 seconds" &/or any of our numerous customers ever show buying bids or any other action on our reports? Hmmmm? Could it be -- it's all a computer generated fakeness in a huge PONZI POND?

BTW - Mr Chang didn't need mine or anyone elses 2 cents worth for support. He's shown all up & down his thread -- he is capable of handling his own. :D

THANK YOU AGAIN, Mr Chang -- for all you've done. :)


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

@SChoi - so how much are Mr Burkes &/or Dawn paying to retain you for the services of posting on threads to defend their schemes?

Family members who are attorneys, wouldn't have time to run around posting on the internet for a company they're not affiliated with. After all - lawyers time is money. RIGHT?

Just sayin'! ;)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Serafinos...SChoi is mocking that sucks guy, and supporting me. Aim your fire appropriately. :) That was 'friendly fire'.


SChoi 4 years ago

@Serfainos - Yes, KS Chang is right. I just want that sucks guy/lady and those like him/her to put the money where the mouth is to buy millions of bids and to recruit, recruit and recruit so the rest of us can get our money out.


kschangsucks 4 years ago

like i said before i make money with this program and i have got 3 times the amount of money i put in OUT and at that i don't recruit. who ever doesn't like Zeek rewards fine but don't try and ruin it for others that are being successful with it. i must admit i hope everyone who finds time to post here is some what successful because if your not then you shouldn't be able to afford time being spent reading blogs.

@Schoi if you cant get your money back from doing Zeek then you need help because even children in kindergarten could probably pull money out of Zeek.

@KSchang your replies get better and better. I have started a who is Chang competition in my own blog. I'm offering $1000K to any one who can truly identify you with a Picture and your credentials. Money is not an issue around here and we love handing it out to be honest so it will be great to finally expose you to the hundreds of your readers who keep asking you questions to which you refuse to answer. I give it about a week if know one can come up with Your Picture and your real credentials then ill have to do it my self but that would defeat the purpose of the competition.

p.s we use you for entertainment around here its great and your picture will just be more motivation hopefully we can get your blog shut down too for making claims with out any real facts. If you would just really tell the public these are your opinions it actually wouldn't be a problem at all, and just because some MLM opportunities are scams doesn't mean Zeek has to be one of them.


kschangsucks 4 years ago

and one more thing.... what are you going to write about when Zeek is still up and running next year and the year after that.

oh yeah and some future advice next time you make a review how about you start all the way from the bottom. Like find out who the owner is and his experience and if he has any college education and what their experience are.... I bet you haven't bothered to look up Paul Burks on Google. If you have then you would know he worked for the U.S Government for 31 years. That alone says a-lot about whether Zeek is a scam or not.


Dion 4 years ago

@KsChangSucks your a fucking loser mate the only reason your trying to piss on this blog is because your fake ponzi is going to collapse like a deck of cards and you want to keep drinking the KoolAid.

Sorry bud I hope this gets shut down just for your sake.

Besides who cares about speculation if zeek is such a legit company you have nothing to worry about, but of course we both know why you are here wink wink nudge nudge.

I guess as long as it pays "it's not a ponzi"

Idiot.....


kschangsucks 4 years ago

your a joke you wont even put all my post up smh


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Whatever -- well, another "censorship accuser". I'll gladly put up your proof of paranoia.

What's the point in speculating how long Zeek will last? Took 20 years to deflate Madoff's Ponzi. So what if Zeek lasts more than 2 years? Trying to perpetuate ANOTHER fallacy... lame.

Just because you don't recruit doesn't mean it's not a Ponzi. Maybe you should get your definitions straight. You recruit for a Pyramid scheme, not a Ponzi scheme (in general).

As for my ID, you're welcome to try. I have left PLENTY of clues all over the Internet. Offering a "bounty" for my ID, hmmm? Care to tell me where is your blog? I'm sure I'll find it, but you can save me the work. I may find your name and address first. Google is a wonderful tool. Or you can just donate that 100K to charity like United Way. I'll gladly reveal my ID if you do that. Though it better have your name on it as there's no way to prove it came from you.

As I said before, your responses are going into my hate mail bag. One day I'm gonna write a book and you're gonna be in it.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Whatever -- whoever you are, you're NOT THE SAME GUY who posted before under the same name. Very different IP address, different ISP, different state.


Jimmy 4 years ago

Unless that $1000k or $1k? Looks like funny money to me (the same funny money used to describe Zeek revenue?).

Unless it goes into escrow, I ain't dumpster diving at kschang's condo.


kschangsucks 4 years ago

smh i thought you were smart but i guess not... im not a fake and just because i dont post under the same i.p address doesnt mean im a fake you idiot... it just means im not posting from the same location smart guy maybe because unlike you i move around and have a real job that involves real work not just typing false reviews... any how like i said back your talk up with facts not opinions... ill post two links just watch them this time the guy on them actually has credentials unlike you, for all we know you might have not even graduated grad school...

link 1 - mlmhelpdesk.com/troy-dooly-comes-clean-on-his-position-with-unique-bid-auction-companies-zeek-rewards-bidify-and-dubli/

link 2 - zeekrewardsscam.co/


kschangsucks 4 years ago

and why is it that a persons i.p address matters ??? your the one who hides behind a computer. I would bet all the marbles in the world you don't have the guts to give your true identity because your a false and im assuming Troy Dooly is talking about you on his videos too lol


SChoi 4 years ago

@kschangsucks: [sound_of_crickets.mp3] Bye!


kschangsucks 4 years ago

its funny how it takes so long for you to post what i write... your not a fair guy your the most biased individual on the internet


kschangsucks 4 years ago

another link with solid facts

mlmhelpdesk.com/mlm-penny-auction-news-zeekler-penny-auction-house-numbers-show-the-real-story-behind-zeek-rewards/


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Whatever -- interesting deflection. You keep referring to me as "biased individual", and such, yet you never bothered providing proof of such bias.

I am well aware of Mr. Dooly's website and I've made PLENTY of comments there.

As for that other site you mentioned, it's interesting that the person didn't even bothered putting his name and referral ID. Even the domain is registered through a Proxy. Guess he wants to keep his ID a secret. Should I be offering a $1 bounty for his ID? I'm not as rich as you guys.

As for how long it takes to post your comments, I don't live in front of the keyboard (except maybe in your imagination).

And which of my facts is CONTRADICTED by the facts on Mr. Dooly's site?

@Jimmy -- maybe I live in a dumpster. ;)

@SChoi -- not much point talking to a "true believer", is there? Let's keep it civil though.


kschangsucks 4 years ago

your biased because you don't have an open mind. your so sure that your side of the story is the correct. like i told you from the beginning im not going to sit here and specifically tell you because i have allready seen what you do to everyone on your blog who tries to tell you that your being one sided... just in general you believe zeek is a scam and a ponzi when in doubt its easy to tell you know nothing about the real business model behind zeek


kschangsucks 4 years ago

its one thing to have an opinion and its another to sit here and make a review like your some sort of expert. I would totally not be on your case if your statements where written in such a form that let people know that these are just your opinions. How can you have all this stuff to say about zeek and make all these analyzations and yet not post any credentials to back them up. Its common sense to use an example who would you rather listen to when your having a problem in a certain area or topic either A. an expert with a phd, masters, etc who has experience in the field or B. a person who just gives you advice with out telling you who they are or what they major in or anything or like when your sick you go to a doctor not some one who claims to be a doctor with nothing to back it up (not saying that your specifically doing that). your just talking like your some kind of experienced MLM expert but yet don't show any credentials. why should any body listen to what your saying when we dont even know if you even finished school or not, we dont even know if your even a citizen for gods sake


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@whatever -- You think I am biased because I believe my side of the story is correct... Ever look in a mirror? I supplied evidence for every thing I wrote.

So, please tell me, what part of "my side of the story" did I get wrong? I've asked this of EVERY Zeek supporter, and so far, all of them just kept on harping about why my identity is a secret.

And now this "plea for balance", interesting derail, but it's STILL a fallacy. You can't prove my side is false, so you simply proclaim I was unfair.

Maybe you should read this article, written not about Zeek, but about vaccine deniers, and how the media is giving them equal coverage of their nonsense out of "fairness".

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-...

You're doing the same thing. And I'm giving you fairness in publishing most of your logical fallacies and illogical pleas as comments.

And you're doing the SAME THING over and over. If I back up my analysis with facts and logic, then I don't need credentials to back them up. It doesn't matter who said 1+2=3: a kindergartener, or a genius. It's just true. Yet you are insisting that unless you know who said 1+2=3, 1+2=3 may not be true.

You are being illogical. Over and over again. Thanks for proving my premise earlier that you think with your balls, not with your brain.


SChoi 4 years ago

"@SChoi -- not much point talking to a "true believer", is there? Let's keep it civil though."

Exactly KS. At first I thought this would be like every other topic where different points of view could be discussed. But the illogic of the true believers is such that I'm not even going to address a single one of them anymore. I don't want that kind of thinking to influence me, so I'll just ignore them.


Erin 4 years ago

KC quick send me your identity, I will collect the money and we can split it ;)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Erin -- I trust you, I don't trust him.

If he's the same guy, he's posting the comments from work. Misuse of company bandwidth? :)

@Whatever -- I'm writing a new chapter in my blog called "fairness fallacy". Thanks for the reminder to write it. You are a PERFECT example. Thanks again!


Jimmy 4 years ago

whatever is just trolling and has no intention of every making a legitimate remark. Just spam-delete the punk.

From his reviews on Zeek and his other hubs, kschang know his stuff and he presents it using a scientific method approach. I've also seen detractors challenge him and have seen edits on issues when more information was available. You rarely ever see the Zeek zealots give the the critics any room for rational debate like kschang gives everyone, even the trolls.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jimmy -- now, now, no name-calling please. :)


Obama 4 years ago

I think you guys better of talking about the banking and customer support issues im more interested in that. I just purchase the diamond account but hasnt recruit anyone or purchase any sample bids because of that.

For the people that's been with zr can you please tell why the company only has 1 person working at the frontdesk?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@O -- I believe there's only like 15-20 people in the whole company, that's including the three to five folks on top (Dawn, Paul, Dan, Darryl, etc.) As the old sayings go, "too many chiefs, not enough Indians".

They said something about having a call center in Maritius, but those guys don't have power to do anything other than opening another support ticket or "escalate to corporate". All the power is still held by the folks in corporate.

Is it whitewashing? You decide. :)


switz 4 years ago

kschang

i am a bit dissapointed you are engaging in this type of back and forth slander, i thought you were a proffessional. i am starting to have doubts about anything you have to say about zeek. this blog is dying and im not sure it will make it till the end of the year. im back on the zeek bandwagon. go zeek. this blog is done and so is any of the income you make off it.


PartyLasVegas 4 years ago

I wanted to make and edit or add a questions to my comment but not sure how so I just re-did the whole thing (seen below) can it be edited or over posted maybe;

#1. Could this auction site product great returns ? Like maybe Ebay with a twist if it had more traffic ? I think Ebay is the 30th biggest company in the world.

#2. Couldn't posting ads help bring more traffic and wouldn't traffic mean more money ?

#3. If bring an affiliate marketing program model as part of and/ or start up for a company that would help them get off the ground that has the potential to make great earnings like Ebay for example, wouldn't it SAVE a lot of advertising dollars to do that at a very small fraction of the cost via 50% of the daily profit sharing including the buy in of affiliate marketers VS advertising on the TV at a Superbowl commercial like Ebay has done spending millions of dollars that brought brand awareness over years of building, wouldn't this system make sense and bring high amounts of traffic ?

#4. Wouldn't letting affiliate marketing agents buy into this or any business really help the company expand or in this case buy more products at greater deals or discounts from bulk buys for the auctions with out any out of pocket expense or loans that would cost the company thousands ?

#5. At some point when the auctions are successful (thinking this is every company's goal) like Ebay, couldn't they discontinue the program or contacts with the affiliate program agents while paying back all the owed earning from the work done advertising the auctions because this is a short term opportunity and maintain the auction site as a huge company like Ebay while still paying less money then Ebay paid with there superbowl ads with no out of pocket expense and making a lot of ppl happy from just doing a lil work but a lot of word of mouth adverting about how they made a lot of money helping this company get off the ground ?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Switz -- ah, but troll-baiting is so much fun! But really, haven't I explained every one of my points? And I refuted each of his fallacies with logic? Yes, I did get a bit snarky there. So unless he came back with nastier insults, that's enough of that.

What you think of Zeek is your business. Care to share your logic?

@PartyLasVegas -- can't edit comments really. I can deny your old one, which is what I did here. To answer your questions:

A1) Yes, a penny auction *can* generate huge returns... enough that FTC issued a warning to consumers about it. (look in the hub) However, there is NO PROOF that Zeekler is doing so.

A2) While posting ads would help, Alexa stats comparing Zeekler and ZeekRewards shows that ZeekRewards is MUCH MORE POPULAR than Zeekler, when it should be the other way around due to all the ads. Clearly, the ads are NOT working.

A3) Affiliate model would indeed make sense, if the affiliates were SELLING BIDS. As it is, affiliates are making "20%" off selling bids, but 1.5% COMPOUNDED DAILY by buying bids themselves. Tell me which one you rather pick?

A4) Except ZeekRewards have REPEATEDLY told everybody "ZR is not an investment and you are NOT buying any shares in Zeekler, ZR, RVG, whatever", so nobody is buying into ZR, just handing over $$$$ for some VIP points which gives them a share of the profit (they themselves generated)

A5) You're asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is... who else buys bids besides affiliates (for VIP points), and how much are they buying? How much profit did they generate to be shared? ZR is supposed to be rewarding affiliates for SALES. Instead, it's rewarding affiliates for BUYING bids THEMSELVES. Affiliates need not recruit a SINGLE customer to qualify for RPP payout. Just pay a couple extra bucks a month to some lead generators and voila, all done.

Affiliates are rewarded for giving bids back to Zeek for FREE, not for bringing in paying customers.


dosborne08 profile image

dosborne08 4 years ago from Pembroke Pines, FL

KSChang,

I would like to know your opinion on the company ACN. I ask about ACN because I am trying to compare it to a program like ZR. ALL (and I know quite a bit) the distributors I know in ACN are converting very little when it comes to sales (getting people to transfer their services or buy the phone) and almost all of their activity is getting people to their meetings and signing people up under them. It seems to me that very little work is being accomplished when it comes to sales. In a company, if very little work is assigned (ZR) or very little work is accomplished (ACN) it all comes back to the same results at the end of the day.

I am also curious to know where a company like AMWAY is when it comes to percentage of revenue from outside customers to money brought in from affiliate sign ups.

Would love to hear your thoughts. I only mention these other two companies for a comparison. I would imagine Amway and ACN are quite a bit apart when it comes to revenue from outside customers.


gen3benz 4 years ago

Great blog KChang, keep up the good work.

You have all the cultist haters coming out of the woodwork here. :-D


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@DOsborne08 -- I have no stats on ACN, but I *did* read somewhere that ACN added 4x the affiliates, but had negligible increase in customers, leading to charges of "pyramid scheme". I think telecom is a pretty saturated market where people are competing on price and bundling, and thus do NOT have the margins to sustain a MLM model, but that's IMHO.

As for Amway, back in March there was an interview of Amway heads and they said 50% just buy enough for themselves, 30% sell a little, and 20% sell quite a bit to other people. They didn't mention quantities. I had a little Op-ed piece on it.

http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/07/op-ed-are-...

As this is not about ZeekRewards, I'll ask you to take further non-ZR related discussion to my blog.


kschangsucks 4 years ago

you still don't get it. Some of your fans think you've answered with facts when you really haven't. All of your answers are your very own opinions... your know one to provide facts and unless your getting your facts from the government or Zeek then stop misinforming people. all you use is Google... lol

and p.s dont cry about my i.p address again


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Whatever -- I don't claim to answer with facts. I answer with analysis based on LOGIC and facts. If you can pinpoint flaws in my logic, PLEASE do so. The fact that you have yet to point out a SINGLE flaw... hmmm... what *does* that indicate? It couldn't indicate that I don't have any, as that would be rather illogical. Guess that pretty much leaves that you can't spot any.

Oh, what's wrong with your IP address? Using "Comcast Business Class Internet"... posting this comment at your DAY JOB, heh? What does *that* mean? You post from Manchester during the day, then move south during the night. That means you commute, and have a day job. Other than you're a Zeek supporter that hopes to make much money so you don't have to commute, doesn't tell me much.


Jimmy 4 years ago

Banter with the idiots or all you get back is bantha podo.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jimmy -- I'm compiling entries for my blog. ;)


rdb 4 years ago

You handle in-coming very well kschang. Some will never get your logical analysis based on facts as valuable criticism. Rather than use it as a counter balance, they only fear it may be true. They do not possess the ability to process the 'negativity vs. positivity' concepts that you have articulated so well. Perhaps they never will. Or maybe, until it is too late?

I question one's J.D. authenticity who uses no apostrophes, capitalization, punctuation, ramble-on sentences, etc., but does not compose any foundation argument that would support a business that is in question. Leave alone the recent and on going troubles that said business is having but not doing much to correct.

You are dealing with an imposter (& cultist) with class, and winning with sound logical facts and analysis. Carry on.


jadenconnor 4 years ago

"""In this hub, I will go through all the publicly available information about Paul Burks, Rex Group, and Zeekler / Zeek Rewards. I will separate the facts from the analysis, and detail the source of information. This is so you can make up your own mind.""" Quote from Kschang

Folks, the above paragraph summarizes the whole article. It is up to you to make up your own mind.

@ "Kschangsucks", Seriously, I am so curious to know how you passed the bar exam. If you are really a lawyer, then you are the dumbest (donkey) attorney I have ever come across. You definitely lack the basic intelligence to understand the very simple logical statement. Mr. "Kschangsucks", I would like to advise you to go back to law school and get some more training. Obviously, you don't seem to have the slightest idea that it is illegal to post pictures of people online without their permission. Please don't threaten Mr. Kschang by offering some folks to dig into his background and post his picture without his permission. That is a big no, no, Mr. "I am a lawyer". Here is a hint, Mr. Kschang can file a civil litigation against you for a number of things, especially defamation, if you disseminate his photo without his permission.

By the way, please give us your full name/photo and the name of the law school where you graduated from. We/I would like to see your credentials. Hmmm, I wonder if Mr. "Kschangsucks" is still in Manchester or currently in Boston. hahaha


Bill DeFalco 4 years ago

It appears very clear that Zeek's days are Numbered. Another Definite PONZI SCHEME that - like all the others - will eventually implode on itself. Be SMART! DON'T get CONNED into joining this SCAM! You will LOSE your money! And if you promote this SCAM - you will LOSE your Credibility and you could ultimately be hit with a HUGE FINE from the SEC. BUYER BEWARE ! ! ! Zeek is headed DOWN the TUBES!


Bernie 4 years ago

@Bill Defalco LOL I like your style! I think you will be right.


Swen2 4 years ago

This entire post from BSChang is a farce. You people drinking his kool aid are clearly exhibiting a lack of knowledge and are followers who don't have a mind of your own. Those of you on the BSChang bandwagon who are buying into all of this BS from Chang are misinformed to say the least.

Why don't we just wait and see what happens to Zeek because, at the end of the day, NO ONE knows what will happen with this company....NO ONE.

Meanwhile for those people who are enjoying the profits from Zeek, more power to you and for those of you who are sitting on the sidelines listening to all the gargage BSChang is spewing, shame on you. You, like thousands of other Zeekies, could be making a nice income, good, bad or indifferent.

Stop with your so called fact-based speculation BSChang because those of us who are smarter than you know the real reason why you are doing all you can to create all this controversy. Simply put you are full of BS.

Le


Serafinos 4 years ago from Chattanooga, TN

@KSChang & especially Schoi...

Among first dates with my Vietnam Vet hubby... he introduced me to skeet shooting. Shocked not only him... but myself at the accuracy. 19/21

Think I'll stick to the range ... lol

I deeply APOLOGIZE, Schoi & Mr Chang. My very bad.

Carry on! :D


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Swen2 -- Since you didn't bother proving any of your claims with facts, why should any one take you seriously? Or do facts mean nothing to you?

"Why don't we wait and see... " what a cop-out, and again, irrelevant.

And there you go AGAIN, with the "it paid me" fallacy.

I could say the same for you Swen. The only reason you are posting here calling me names is you can't afford to see this thing fail. Makes people wonder how much do you have in stake that you have to defend it thus, but THAT would be baseless speculation, and irrelevant.

You just had your final warning to stay on topic. Discuss ZeekRewards (positive or negative as you wish), or your comment is going to /dev/null

@JadenConnor -- you're going way off topic, buddy. Please don't play his game, or I have to nuke your comment too.


SChoi 4 years ago

@Serafinos - Hey, no problem! Nothing to even apologize for!


jadenconnor 4 years ago

@Kschange.."you're going way off topic, buddy. Please don't play his game, or I have to nuke your comment too.".

Lol. Okay, I will take that as a final friendly warning.. @"Kschangsucks", you see, Mr. Kschang is not being biased after all. Anyway, this is where I don't understand about zeekrewards. The company hired "top lawyers" to get rid of the term "investment". They don't want their affiliates to brand the company as an investment company, but yet, in order to make money you have to become a member and pay(invest) a fee to be a silver, gold or diamond member.


TR 4 years ago

I invested $7K in AdSurf Daily and watched as many people around me did the same to make a quick return. I was very fortunate that the government stepped in and all my money was returned.

Zeek Rewards is absolutely no different and is obviously run by a bunch of idiots that are driven solely by making money off the ignorance and greed of others.

Zeek Rewards is 100% a Ponzi Scheme and will fail very soon.


Randy 4 years ago

A friend went to the penny action, made 3 bids, $1 each bid. and got a $4oo item for $8 + his 3 bids. He was charged $1.50 shiping. So 800 bids were made at $1 each. Now you say zeek is not making money.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Randy -- I did not say Zeek's not making money. I said Zeek's NOT MAKING ENOUGH MONEY to have paid out almost 60 million to affiliates in 2011, according to their own income disclosure statement.

And the bids are often discounted, so it's 65 cents each.


November 4 years ago

Just wanted to say thank you for the time and energy you put into this analysis. I was also trying to research about this company and you definitely saved me some time. It was far easier to verify claims you made than those by zeeks!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@November -- glad to have helped your research. I put the information out there, it is up to people to do what they want with them.

Zeek-head claims are often logical fallacies and promises not backed up by facts. It's often 'spin-control'.


Jimmy 4 years ago

One clarification you might want to add is the Income Disclosure Statement only covered U.S. affiliates and revenue.


Randy 4 years ago

If A person signed up for a silver position, they would pay only $10 a month. They could buy ten Zeek sample bids for $10.

Each month that they pay their monthly subsription they will receive 10 zeek bids to go on the penny auction if they choose. They will also receive 110 points for signing up. Those 110 points would grow at an average of 1.4% a day for 2 months and then they retire the 110 and you have what is left. That would be 169 points left. BUT the 10 points that they purchased are up to 25.41, so now together they are up to 194.93. Now remember, they are now up to 2 months subscription ( $20 ) + ( $10 in bids ) total $30. If they stay active by paying their $10 monthly subsciption and by placing their daily add and never showing anyone the business or buying anymore bids, after about 14 months they can start drawing 100 % of their daily growth witch would be much more than their out of pocket expense, but if they would draw only 20% of their daily growth, they would receive $200 a month or more, every month.

To a lot of people $200 a month is a car payment. But it will continue to grow. Keep up what they have been doing for another year and it will turn into over a thousand a month. BUT WOW that is still growing.

They have to place an add every day. If they don't place an add in a day, they don't grow that day.

Did you know that Zeek suggest that you start drawing money at a point.

As I read your ? , it sounded like Zeek only pushes people to only put more in and the only way to make money was to have a big group. The example I gave was a person that got no one in the business and only bought 10 bids.

Now you said Zeekler does not make enough money at the penny auction. Zeekler is close to the top of all penny auctions and the #1 penny auction is spending millions weekly on TV and radio and internet adds. Maybe they don't make enough to do that either. According to your logic, they can't be doing that.

You have little facts on their income. Only your theory.

It does not matter what I do in life, someone is out here to tell me why I am wrong. My hobby. my Faith, my income, anything.

You should join Zeek and see for yourself. I know there is only one thing for shur in this world. WE will die and our fate is sealed.

We are taking a chance to do anything. I have met the owner and I looked in his eyes and I feel he is trying to help a lot of people. When it come down to it, that is all we have. We either believe or we don't. You don't. You sound like a very negative person to be spending so much time stoping people from steping out of their comfort zone and living their dreams.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Randy -- you named good scenarios, but you keep asking the wrong questions.

WHY are you getting paid? To promote Zeek, they claim.

Yet you didn't bring in a single customer. YOU YOURSELF paid into the system. And you expect to get paid for it.

It is an INVESTMENT, not a job.

And they tell you it's NOT an investment.

And since you didn't bring in a single customer in the scenario above, and still got paid, WHAT ARE YOU GETTING PAID FOR?

Don't you see a problem with that?

You wrote: " According to your logic, they (not Zeek) can't be doing that (making enough to pay for ads)"

Sorry, but that's a strawman argument that has nothing to do with ZeekRewards.

I already presented my logic: Zeekler is likely NOT making 400K a day from the auctions held as they don't hold THAT many auctions. You simply dismiss that with "you just have a theory" instead of defeating the logic. How can I treat you seriously after that?

And there you go with the "Darth Vader invitation"... Do you honestly invite critics much like Vader invites Luke to join him to rule the galaxy together? Is that before or after he sliced off Luke's hand?

You've made your choice, and chose to ignore the evidence that doesn't fit your choice. That is your choice. Now you are trying to JUSTIFY your own choice and WHY you made it.

Every victim of a scam who met the owner claimed the owner is out to help people, even victims of Andy Bowdoin, owner of Ad Surf Daily Ponzi. Some of those victims don't believe they are victims and sued the Federal government claiming wrongful prosecution. They thought ASD was just out to help people and Feds were wrong going after it. They just got their lawsuit dismissed last month. You may even know them. They are top ZeekRewards members, Disner and Schweitzer. They may even be in your upline.

And you end with "negative" and "get a life" argument, both "ad hominem" attacks that had nothing to do with ZeekRewards.

You're just using every lousy trick in the "bad argument book". Come on, you can do better than that.


Jadenconnor 4 years ago

@randy...wow, zeekrewards invested millions weekly on tv,radio and Internet ads? They must be doing great. Here is my question. If zeekrewards can afford to spend millions weekly on ads, then why on earth are they having such difficult time paying their affiliates?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jaydenconnor -- I think he meant that *other* penny auction company...


Rand 4 years ago

I place adds every day that sends people to Zeekler. I also give friends bids to use. I also have gotten a few people to customers and buy bids monthly.

Jadenconno, I did not say Zeek spends on TV adds. The other penny auctions do. And the people I know are getting paid.

Have you got paid?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Rand(y?) -- so, how much money have *you* put into Zeek thus far, vs. the customers you claim to have recruited? Should be obvious from your "backoffice". Come on, be honest. Not much of a sample size 1, but indulge us.

If Zeek really values you for the customers you bring in, why are they paying you for the amount of money YOU SPENT? A LOT MORE, it seems?


jadenconnor 4 years ago

@Randy, I'm not an affiliate of Zeekrewards. However, I know a couple of my coworkers who invested 10k each. They told me that they going to retire in a year. Honestly, I'm still waiting to see their pay check from Zeekrewards.


kschangsucks 4 years ago

there you go again... you just said it your self you make analysis, and since your the one making the analysis they are your own thoughts or theories... like i said these are your own points of views your not an expert its sad your preventing others from making money...smh i hope some one goes psycho on you and we see you on 5 o'clock news, internet bumb victim of homicide... lol your a joke dude and your making the Chinese look bad with all your so called analysis that you do... instead of investing so much time in this blog invest time in a degree or career


kschangrules 4 years ago

The fact that you will publically wish death on a person just shows what kind of a human being you are. You're an embarrassment to the human race, go back to school now, good boy. You have still not refuted even ONE of kschang's points yet, why? May I humbly suggest it is over your head. We'll see who the idiot is after this HYIP collapses.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Whatever -- wishing ill on me already? You're edging dangerously close to sending a threat over the Internet. And that ain't free speech. Cyberbullying never was free speech.

But I'll publish this comment, as evidence of your mind.

As I said before, you have been warned. This will be your last comment here.

Oh, and I have your IP addresses, so I know where you live and where you work. So if anything happens to me, you know where they'll look first. :)

@Rules -- Keep it on topic please. Or I'll have to censor you too. :)


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

COMMENTARY: The SAME 5 questions from PartyLasvegas was posted on PatrickPretty.com, but not under Zeek. Instead, it went under bidsthatgive. Seems someone is mounting a distraction campaign.


Gajafa 4 years ago from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

This blog is a valuable source of information for people to MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS. Kschang forces no one to pull their money out or to stop using Zeek, yet the ZEEKHEADS ram it down your throat! After reading this blog I MADE UP MY OWN MIND and saw the light, I decided with further research to not put my money into Zeek. I ask myself this, do you really believe this company is seriously able to offer the 547% PA ROI in the long term? I told myself, WELL THAT'S HIGHER THAN MICROSOFT OR CHEVRON, OR EVEN EXXON OFFER IT'S SHAREHOLDERS. So I went looking for how this little marketing company could have such profits but I was deeply disapointed. All I found was a small penny site multiple times smaller than qui bids and with only a hand full of auctions running. Gee I thought, could this be more profitable than exxon mobile? I then laughed to myself out loud. Of course not, it's called a high yield investment program (PONZI) and they have a limited shelf life. I then read on behindmlm too where I found more valuable info. This company ZEEK which "supposedly" pays out more returns than APPLE is run by a shoe string staff of 10 PEOPLE! I dug a bit deeper and then I knew, this is simply a new age recycling company! I laughed to myself out loud, again.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Gajafa -- recycling... yes, you *could* call a Ponzi scheme a "money cycle". :)


rsblue21 4 years ago

I dont know if you are right or wrong. I do believe that everyone should take what you said as food for thought. Zeek may be a fantastic opportunity with huge growing pains, or a complete scam. Only time will tell. Thank you for all your information. And, while I am not a tax attorney, I agree with your analysis of the tax problems all Zeek affiliates will experience on 4-15. And it does not matter what Zeek calls it, what matters is what the IRS calls it when they audit all Zeek affiliates. Thanks again.


JJ999 4 years ago

What is your opinion about NuSkin?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@rsblue21 -- fair comment, but with the problems I've pinpointed that was never answered, I'd say the chances for it being a scam is quite a bit larger than a company with merely "growing pains". Some affiliates though, refuse to acknowledge it, or try to portray that as "even odds".

@JJ999 -- they are legitimate enough that they do sell things, and cosmetics is both profitable, and consumable (so someone always need more). However, have they kept up with the times, and has the market saturated with affiliates? *THAT* is the question you need to answer for yourself.


rsblue21 4 years ago

What is your opinion of LegalShield as a MLM?. Thanks for all your great help to all.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@rsblue21 -- I believe behindmlm had a review on them. I'd suggest you check over there.


observers 4 years ago

One of the comments here said that Paul Burks worked for the US Gov for 31 years. I thought it curious since he owns other companies - I found 2 links:

LinkedIN for Paul Burks of Zeekler

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulburks

and another link for a different Paul Burks who lives in Georgia - he did work for the State of GA for 31 years.

http://secompact.org/biography/paul-burks/


Randy 4 years ago

You was asking if we get customers, do we get paid for it. Your telling all these people that you know all about this company, And your asking me. I can see you know about 80% of what your talking about. To advise people you need to know your stuff.

SO!! To help the company, helps us all. How do you think they pay so good.

I drive a semi truck for a living. I get the company customers. To do that, I don't get anything but only to know that if it helps the company, it helps all that work there.

But the answer is YES!! I get paid to get customers. Every time a customer of mine buys bids, I get 10%. Now that customer can get a customer and the customer makes money also. Then I get paid again.

A local TV news in Winston Salem did a story on Zeek. They called the North Carolina Attorney General. The Zeek home office is in North Carolina. The reporter called to find out if this was legal and how many complaints were made against Zeek. Also ask if the penny auction is considered on-line gambling.

As reported the Attorney General replied, on-line gambling is illegal. What Zeekler does is legal. They are a legal and a reputable company. There have been only a few complaints and all have been taken care of.

With all your negative talk building on each other, you may think you know more than the Attorney General or the leaders of 170 countries that permites Zeek to do business in all the States and 170 countries. It is their job to know what is a scam or a ponzy scheme is.

What if you joined the hundreds of thousands of Zeek affiliates and bought only $10 of bids in a $10 a month subscriptions. What if it worked. You could have a great savings from that in your bank one day. If it went down, you would loose some money BUT what if it made it.

Over the years I have done other deals that all seem to be for the company only.

I have been with companies that are well known to be very reputable. I don't want to talk bad about other deals so I will not name them. I made money but other people did not and they all had a 80% drop off factor. Sign up 10 reps and 8 or so will quit after a short time. I was tired of that. With Zeek one hundred sign up, 98 will stay. With Zeek you can make money even if you don't show anyone. The biggest thing I see is, you keep asking, how can they do it. Well, they are doing it. I personally know a lot of people that are getting paid as I am.

Zeek is the first that does what they say.

I have read enough of your negative thoughts. Negativity will drag down the best of people. I wish you all the best and may God Bless you all in what ever you do.

But go do something useful. Join something but please don't join my group. I like positive people.

Randy


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Randy -- thank you for staying on topic, something your fellow Zeekheads have managed to fail multiple times.

I never said I know everything about the company, because the company doesn't make many things public and visible to all. I accessed all the publicly available info I can find. If you wish to contribute more, please provide a source and I'll gladly analyze that as well.

I already know you get paid when customers buy bids. I am asking where did your money go when you "give away" bids, and why are you getting REWARDED for SPENDING money on Zeek.

I know about that report. It was PULLED BY THE TV STATION from their website and the written version's ending rewritten. AG's office never said Zeek is legal. It's still UNDETERMINED.

Zeek do what they say... yes they do... So did all the scammers... at first. The first few people always get paid. It's all the subsequent joiners that get soaked. Whether Zeek is a scam or not, I leave up to you, but it appears that you've made your decision, so all the power to you. I just hope you REALLY went into it by thinking with your brain, instead of thinking with your balls.

You are viewing my report as "negativity" because you have stakes in the game. Unfortunately, this "negativity" is backed up by facts and logic. Avoiding them is much like burying your head in the sand, or closing your eyes so you don't see the danger. It may end up hurting you.

Good luck, but that'll only get you so far.


dan scott 4 years ago

I called the Attorney General of North Carolina today.

Registered complaints with the North Carolina Attorney General as of July 10, 2012 are as follows:

Rex Venture Group (Zeek’s parent company) in business for 15 years - 2 written complaints

Zeekler.com - 0 complaint

ZeekRewards.com – 1 complaint

That's pretty freakin good!

Also, how do you account for an Alexa Ranking on Zeekler.com of 1257 and the avg time on the site over the past 3 mos of 5 min and 10 secs? http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/zeekler.com

Obviously the ads DO drive traffic and REAL people to the site that play the penny auctions. There is real value there in placing the ads... dont you think?

You dont mention any of this.. Why not? Why did you convenently skip that.. answer the question please? You appear like insane Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch.com who bashes ALL natural therapies and leaves the corrupt pharmaceutical cartel alone.


Truth Reporter 4 years ago

Everyone who invests, sorry can't use that word, BUYS BIDS which turn into "points" and has a stake in Zeek becomes close minded all of a sudden. Anytime you try to bring up something about Zeek that's not displayed in a positive light or a simple point of concern or question, these Zeekheads go berserk. They don't want to listen to anything and will eventually reach a breaking point like "kschangsucks" is displaying. I don't know the exact term for this/them but I'm sure kschang will fill in the gap for me. I think fear has something to do with it.

@To everyone: before you post something that will make you look any stupider than you already are (if that's even possible) please have a verifiable source to go along with your comment.

@Randy: Zeek Rewards has only been operational since Jan 2011 (per income disclosure statement) I would stick to your day job of driving a truck since that industry has proven itself over the last 100+ years. No one is doubting your ability to make money in Zeek, the concern is the sustainability of the company.

I was recently told by an upline that if I ever hear anything negative about Zeek, I need to immediately visit the "ONLY" official Zeek news site (http://zeekrewardsnews.com/) which is fascist in itself.

It should scare you or at least raise some concerns when Paul Burks opens his "news post" with [First, ALL IS WELL in Zeekland]

If all is well then why does it even need to be said at all or much less be said in CAPS and multiple times throughout your news post? Companies don't release news posts saying "all is well" unless there is a problem.

http://zeekrewardsnews.com/2012/07/pre-weekend-upd...

It should scare you even more when this "pre-weekend-update" post has 906 comments and only 13 comments are displayed. What are they hiding? Why can't we see what the other 893 affiliates are asking or saying?

So all of you need to get your head out of your asses and have an open mind.

Stay tuned for the Truth Reporter's next experiment in actually trying to win an auction with the 1,000 free bids that I acquired.


Imjustsayin 4 years ago

@truereporter. How do you get 1000 free bids I though 500 is max to give? Yes I agree you 1million time regarding the hide comments. I did a test myself and asked a bad question but they never post it. But the question why those people don't come on here and talk about it, don't they want their question to be answer??


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Imjustsayin -- I was told that Diamond level affiliate can give up to 1000 to one person. 500 is Gold level limit.

Zeek has a policy to "avoid negativity". This was documented clearly in the examples I cited above. People who ask pointed questions have the questions deleted, and was pretty much told they should not be in Zeek.


Imjustsayin 4 years ago

Oh I see... So if anyone has pointed question should be asking Troy Dooly at his helpdesk link below cause he seems to know a lots about the inside. mlmhelpdesk.com/mlm-penny-auction-news-zeekler-penny-auction-house-numbers-show-the-real-story-behind-zeek-rewards/#comment-60118


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Imjustsayin -- well, Troy Dooly claims he knows a lot of answers but if the company didn't make it public he ain't saying either. He however had hinted at a lot of answers albeit without much analysis or explanation.

I think he said several times that Zeek gave up on the two local banks because one bank is "too small" and the other is "not MLM-friendly". Not sure what *that* story had to do with the previous explanation about irate members calling the bank demanding to know if their check was cashed by Zeek, and if so why haven't Zeek credited their account. Dawn herself hinted at this explanation multiple times.

So yes, you *can* go read Troy Dooly... if you want cheerful partial answers. Feel free to read "Chris" over there, who insist that Dooly erase my "negative" comments when I ask some pointed questions. Dooly refused to erase my comments, as he insists comments are for all sides, but his own answers are not always... to the point.


Imjustsayin 4 years ago

They receive my $5000 cashiers check 6/30/12 but they didn't post it until today so they do have banking issues.

I'm wondering how come they don't use US bank for US affiliates and customer. I know nexpay


Jimmy 4 years ago

@Randy,

"With all your negative talk building on each other, you may think you know more than the Attorney General or the leaders of 170 countries that permites Zeek to do business in all the States and 170 countries. It is their job to know what is a scam or a ponzy scheme is."

You obviously don't know about the six banned countries due to non-existing "OFAC sanctions" according to Paul Burks. Nor do you know about Zeek being banned in the great state of Montana. Maybe YOU should do some research before cheerleading on here from the seat of your pants without actual facts.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@IamJustSayin -- it could be more like internal personnel / processing issue instead of bank issue. Generally cashier's check clear in about 5 banking days (or less). If it took Zeek 10 days, that means it spend at least same amount of time between Zeek got the money and Zeek credit you with that money.


sweetpea7485 profile image

sweetpea7485 4 years ago from Columbia, SC

A woman approached my boyfriend a couple of days ago about this Zeek rewards thing and it just so happened I started blogging on this exact site the very same night. Being unemployed and looking for ways to subsidize my life with other avenues I thought this would be a good way to make some cash. Thank god I read this before I signed up for anything. An investment is only as good as its long term worth, if a company prides itself on trickery and shady business it to me is ultimately a bad investment. Those who do bad business deserve to be out of business as far as I'm concerned. Thanks again!


Jimmy 4 years ago

@kschang,

"I was told that Diamond level affiliate can give up to 1000 to one person. 500 is Gold level limit"

The limit used to be 100 bids can be given away for silver, 500/gold and 1000/diamond. After the PRC requirements were rolled out, this changed to 1000/person regardless of whether you are silver, gold or diamond.

The main reasons to upgrade to a higher subscription levels are:

1) You can invest more ($1000 cap for silver, $5000 for gold, $10000 for diamond). So if you want to invest more than $5000 using your own funds (buying compounding bids) you have to be Diamond.

2) Higher commissions on RPP of those you recruit and your matrix commissions. So if you are gong to recruit, you want to be Diamond - assuming your commissions are more than your $99 monthly fee. Many affiliates purchased only a small amount of compounding bids and just recruit others into the investment scheme.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

For what it's worth: Scammers are hacking into ZeekRewards accounts and stealing money out of member accounts directly by changing the payout request and sending money to their own accounts. This is documented by a fellow hubber. I have no reason to doubt his word, though this cannot be independently confirmed.

http://charles-s.hubpages.com/hub/Scammed-Again


Bernie 4 years ago

@kschange Is that called growing pains?


Jimmy 4 years ago

This has been going on for a while and has affected at least a few hundred affiliates that we know of from what Zeek employees have said in the support forums.

This is a case where the 2 week drag to get paid actually helps.

There has been a lot of concern from affiliates though in that it takes a week to contact the company using every possible urgent escalation, and only when contacting someone who happens to know the email address for the Zeek employee on the support forum handling break-ins, do you get some attention, and even then it takes a few days for them to respond.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

For what it's worth: Top ZeekRewards members claim ZeekRewards is modeled after Ponzi scheme "Ad Surf Daily", uses link to seek donations to the perp Andy Bowdoin who's sitting in jail. It becomes more understandable when you realize these top ZeekRewards members are former ASD members.

http://www.patrickpretty.com/2012/07/13/zeek-promo...


Simon 4 years ago

Well that certainly took some time to get through!!!

Where to start really...? Well I guess the start is a good place :)

As far as I know in Zeek as an affiliate you buy bids to give away to customers and then you get rewarded with a profit share from the company based on the amount of points you have accrued (The bids you have bought get turned into points) Your customers then use these bids and any more they wish to purchase to bid on either penny auctions or falling price auctions (I seem to remember something written about falling price auctions up there somewhere) Yes Zeekler has both sorts of auctions on its site.

So as an affiliate you are buying an incentive to get more customers to join the auction site in the form of bids. You then post your ad which is designed to get those customers from various places on the web.

Zeekler makes a profit from all its auctions and I believe that is not being disputed here. The affiliates are there to increase the number of customers so the company can make more profit and then the affiliates are rewarded for their advertising of the company.

The other way affiliates can make money is by buying more bids to give to their current customers to keep them active on the site. These bids are then turned into more points as before and therefore they can make more money.

It seems like a fairly straightforward model to me...

The fact that they have a high paid bank of lawyers/attorneys on board I see as a good thing. This means they can stay compliant with any changes in regulations that affect the company. I would be very concerned if they didn't have any lawyers!

There were however some points that concerned me here... @Kschang seems to be very biased and that is fine if you have done your full research but you have also claimed that you do not know everything about the company so although what you have written may be based on your own research (from the all knowing google) my guess is that you haven't actually given Zeek a chance. Before posting something like this I would personally throw at least $50 into the company to see what happens and give it a chance. But then maybe that is just my risk taking nature and that is why I have personally lost around $1500 in various online courses that proved to be pretty worthless. I have however paid around $10,000 on other courses that have proved to be of extreme value and have more than made up for my losses. I could have quit at my first "failure" but what would have been the point of that?

Zeek to me sounds like a viable opportunity to make some money by giving people the chance to buy products at a heavily discounted rate. Yes there are some things like the cash auctions that are a bit odd and some customers could get addicted to the whole thing and end up paying more than the retail price for things but I would like to think that they are few and far between...

I am going to join up and see where this goes for me. I have one friend that has just bought a nice new car for himself from his earnings and another friend that joined up last week that is already making over $10 a day. I know it's not bank breaking money but it seems to be growing for him on a daily basis as his daily profit share is invested back into buying more bids to give away to his customers.

As for the point about them not making enough money to pay out their affiliates I would like to know where you get this information from? I have already joined some skype groups and facebook groups that are dedicated to Zeek affiliates and there are no reports of people not getting paid appart from the odd problem with accounts not being verified and some errors on the affiliates part but all have been rectified very quickly from what I have seen.

I think looking from an outside perspective is very different than looking from an affiliate perspective yes but it pays to be able to see both sides of the coin and I think @kschang has failed on that part and ony looked at it from an outside perspective.

Whether or not Zeek will last no one can say, all I can see is a lot of lawyers working hard to make sure the company stays within the law as unfortunately there have been a lot of bad eggs in the network marketing industry so the FTC has had to tighten up the laws and this has affected all of the MLM/network marketing companies. The fact that companies like Zeek have employed attorneys and lawyers screams to me that they are a legitimate company trying to work within the guidlines of the FTC to keep their affiliates and customers happy and paid.

I would like to put a question to @kschang... If you are shown evidence that the company is completely legal and not a ponzi/HYIP/pyramid scheme would you make a change to your article to reflect that. From what I have read here in your comments I am afraid that I doubt that very much as you seem to be very set in your ways as to your view is the right view no matter what although to be fair to you there has not really been anyone commenting on behalf of zeek that has done it in a particularly intelligent way. To some extent I can understand why because you are basically attacking their business but it would have paid them to be much more thorough in their comments back to you rather than trying to discredit you they should have tried to discredit your information. Only @DnD100 has come close to giving a valid view from the other side but unfortunately even that thread of comments turned into a s**t slugging match between the two of you and as for @kschangsucks or whatever his/her name was they really didn't help the cause.

With that said all the verifiable evidence I have seen points to zeek being a viable biz op for me for now and I am going to suspend my disbelief for a while, put some money into it and post my ad on a daily basis and see what comes of it. If I hadn't taken any risks with online marketing in the past I wouldn't be sitting here working from home earning a nice income and having the time to write this comment on here. I would still be stuck working for a tv channel doing 12 hour night shifts!

I hope this gives a little bit of balance to the debate here although I haven't posted any facts I thought it was time someone should stand up for what they see from a "zeek positive" point of view. I really and truly wish all of you the greatest success in whatever you choose to do and if this page is still live in a few months I will report back with my findings after being in zeek for that amount of time in the hope it will help people come to a more balanced decision about the company.

:) x


rsblue21 4 years ago

I agree that zeek is a ponzi scheme. My fiance has $6000 with them. How can I file complaints with the FTC, and the states Attorneys Generals to get them to start investigating Zeek before its too late. The Zeek people are finatical. How can they realisticly believe that any viable company can give a 350% return for 90 days. I posted my concerns on a facebook Zeek group page and they said they were reporting me to the ZeekSquad. Sounds like Germany 1938.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Simon -- I'll take a couple quotes to respond to

You wrote: "So as an affiliate you are buying an incentive to get more customers to join the auction site in the form of bids." and also "The other way affiliates can make money is by buying more bids to give to their current customers to keep them active on the site. "

So *you* paid into Zeek. YOU are Zeek's customers, not these random people you hope to recruit (there's a separate commission for that).

You are REWARDED for paying into Zeek. That's not work. That's investment at best, Ponzi scheme at worst.

Add to that "We are not investment" disclaimer, and you may have outright FRAUD.

Very straightforward indeed.

You wrote: "I think looking from an outside perspective is very different than looking from an affiliate perspective yes but it pays to be able to see both sides of the coin"

So how *does* it look from the inside? Please tell us instead of complaining. Unlike Zeek, I don't delete your "negativity" comments.

You wrote: "all I can see is a lot of lawyers working hard to make sure the company stays within the law"

And it was mentioned in the hub. However, doesn't the fact that only NOW (2 years AFTER the company launched) did they hire compliance lawyer worry you somewhat?

You wrote: " If you are shown evidence that the company is completely legal and not a ponzi/HYIP/pyramid scheme would you make a change to your article to reflect that."

I'll analyze the evidence and explain my analysis, just as I did for ALL the evidence I presented. I've invited ALL ZR supporters to SUPPORT their side of the story, and so far I got are fallacies, lies, bogus interpretations, PR spin, unattributed and unverifiable info, anecdotal evidence, so on and so forth.

If you have some, PLEASE provide them so we can analyze them.


Wanker 4 years ago

There are a lot of points made by Zeek supporters that defy logic, but one that I truly don't understand is "they hired lawyers, so they must be legitimate".

Do people seriously believe that??

Lawyers are simply people that have demonstrated some level of knowledge about the law. They are not inherently good, and they do not always work in ways that support the law. Sometimes they are just as bad as the people that hire them and they use their expertise to help companies skirt the law, or help them cover up instances when they have clearly broken the laws.

The fact that a company has "lawyered up" is absolutely no indication that it has good intentions and is making a "good faith effort" to "be compliant".

I have no inside knowledge of Zeek and am not making a statement about their activities one way or the other, but this particular argument from Zeek supporters just drives me nuts.


Jimmy 4 years ago

" I really and truly wish all of you the greatest success in whatever you choose to do and if this page is still live in a few months I will report back with my findings after being in zeek for that amount of time in the hope it will help people come to a more balanced decision about the company."

This approach also worked for Bernie Madoff for over 20 years. Just because a Ponzi doesn't collapse in the few months time that you are in it and getting paid, doesn't prove it is not a Ponzi.

Considering all of the similarities to ASD, similar leaders with Zeek & ASD, USHBB and eWallets all closely connected to other HYIP Ponzi schemes, isn't the burden of proof on Zeek to show that it is not a Ponzi?


gen3benz 4 years ago

KC,

What exactly is going on with Montana?

Any info?


4 years ago

i love how people can go on here and make claims that are outright lies. Let's get started shall we. First of all it is not an investment if you know what an investment was and how the system works then you would know this. An investment is something where you give someone money and do NOTHING and they pay you in return. in Zeek rewards you MUST place ads each day AND give away free samples to customers. You keep saying how your earnings do not have anything to do with recruiting. this is also NOT true. You will NOT grow your business nearly as fast if you DONT have people under you. this is the advertising branch of zeekler. the profits are taken from zeekler. stop trying to post nonsense of how can they pay out when all zeek rewards does is pay out and not earn income. it is the advertising part of zeekler that is all. I know so many people who take their checks each week and they get them. Yes zeekler is not 15 years old it is Rex Venture Group. However they have mlms from within those 15 years that are still going on today. They work with the FTC and top attorneys around the country. They are by no means under cover. A ponzi scheme company would not hire on all these attorneys nor would they hire call in centers and train them in order to have a good reliable company. They are growing like crazy. My uncle actually has met the owner and sat down and talked with him. If you know anything about how a penny auction works you would see how much money they make. ESPN owns a penny auction called score-it. They don't own it because they loose money but because they can make a killing off of it. Please next time before you start posting a bunch of crap about a company and claiming you lost money. LEARN HOW IT WORKS!


4 years ago

thats funny because you deleted by comment that i just wrote


bob 4 years ago

you claimed you would just present the facts and let us decide. You did not do that. you added your opinion through out! op ed, op ed, op ed. Where are you coming from, and where do you bank???


notperfect1 4 years ago

Thank you for your time & efforts, everyone! LOL Thank god, I found this site and yes, I was approached by someone for this ZR two days ago and I thought right away "something was very fishy". One of my friends who signed up for a membership yesterday told me that her credit card was denied. To me, this whole ZR scenario is "INVESTMENT" and I won't say it's a SCAM until the official report comes out soon (even though I think it is). I used to be a Forex trader on Wall Street for a long time and I always felt I was a gambler myself for doing that. Now, I am gonna go ahead trying this ZR as a silver member since I am willing to LOSE that money. Hopefully, I experience it myself and educate my friends who seem to be blinded.


observers 4 years ago

Montana State Law does not allow its citizens to engage in business like Zeek. . .most MLM's have to wait for Montana approval sometimes up to 2 years. . . .


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Sheesh, I was out and so many comments... one at a time...

@gen3Benz -- no update on Montana

@a -- while it's true that hiring attorneys and compliance team is significant, the fact that they were hired almost TWO YEARS AFTER the company started clearly means compliance ain't high priority. Furthermore, it was clearly mentioned about that Ad Surf Daily, a convicted Ponzi, also hired lawyers for compliance. In fact, it hired Gerald Nehra, who was ALSO hired by ZeekRewards. So please don't say "Scams don't hire lawyers, therefore Zeek is not a scam". That would be a fallacy. Scams certain *do* hire lawyers, and Zeek had hired a lawyer SPECIFICALLY hired before by a convicted scam. Add to that a similar business model, and it's cause for alarm, if not outright panic.

Oh, and I have to APPROVE your comments. Didn't you see "your comments must be approved by hub author"? Stop being paranoid about "censored". I don't censor much, if at all. Certainly nowhere as much as Zeek's forums.

@O -- your troll baiting are NOT published. TWICE. Please stick to the topic.

@Bob -- I believe you have mistaken my ANALYSIS for my opinion.

Analysis is based on facts and logic.

Opinion is just that, opinion, not backed up by anything.

@observers -- while Montana does go after pyramid schemes (and was the first to go after FHTM, as noted above), there is NO further information available on what's going on between Montana and Zeek.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@O -- I already told you I live in San Francisco. Didn't you look at my profile? And there you go randomly pick on someone who lived on the other coast... Tsk tsk... I really have to ban you now. See ya.


4 years ago

ad surf daily is 100% different. if you go to zeekler's website you can see just how much money this company makes. also the profits are also spread out for the other mlms that they do so not just profits from zeekler. ad surf daily had no product. with zeek rewards the product is bids. you are advertising for the company. It would be like having an advertising agency for your company. I will admit that zeek rewards seems easy and too good but from personal experience i know that it works. Also i mean't that hiring several call centers is not something most companies that are scams would do to be legit. I don't know if you heard of Troy Dooley from MLM help desk but he talks about how the company works and he is a big advocator which MLM's are what he does for a living. They are now the second biggest penny auction and growing continually. They would be shut down by now if it was a scam because they have been doing MLM's that are well known for 15 years.The fact is that the government has known about them this whole time and has not shut them down. They would certainly be in prison by now if these were well known scammers based in the US.


rsblue21 4 years ago

I know its immature and childish, but when Zeek implodes (which it will if for no reason other than the adverse tax consequences which are short term capital gains at 35% [note that less than an 80/20 split means the Zeek RPP balance is unsustainable]), dont you really just want to say hahaha to all the arrogant AHs who have said you're nuts, crazy, etc. They are so infuriating. Why cant they join an MLM that is legit and pays for real work. I loved "a's" comment that its not an investment since he works to place an ad and give away bids. Now that is 45 seconds of brutally hard work!!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@a -- you were doing so well, but you devolved into several fallacies instead!

You wrote: "ad surf daily is 100% different. if you go to zeekler's website you can see just how much money this company makes. also the profits are also spread out for the other mlms that they do so not just profits from zeekler. ad surf daily had no product. with zeek rewards the product is bids. you are advertising for the company. It would be like having an advertising agency for your company."

Ad Surf Daily claimed they have a product: "ad units".

ZeekRewards had always been described as advertising division of Zeekler, not for any other MLMs. This is right off ZR's website. You're like the fifth or sixth person to claim they also advertise ALL of RVG's businesses. Where are you getting this stuff?

It costs a dollar or two to post one ad at most. When someone with 100x points do the same work as you, but earns 100x more, are you really getting paid to "advertise", as you claim?

In fact, I ALREADY covered this in the hub itself... I'm just repeating myself... darn it.

You wrote: "Also i mean't that hiring several call centers is not something most companies that are scams would do to be legit."

It doesn't *mean* anything, as it neither makes them any more or less legit than it is. What determines legitimacy is business model. You are reading too much meaning into acts.

You wrote: " I don't know if you heard of Troy Dooley from MLM help desk but he talks about how the company works "

It's Dooly (no 'e'). And I post comments on there as "K. Chang". You *may* want to go actually *read* the comments. And he didn't talk about how company works. He talked about how penny auctions work, NOT ZeekRewards.

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure you actually *read* his website.

You wrote: "They would be shut down by now if it was a scam because they have been doing MLM's that are well known for 15 years."

That's a fallacy. Zeekler only existed as of June 2010 and ZeekRewards only of January 2011. Please get your own facts straight before you use it to support your side.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@a -- missed a comment you made before...

You wrote: " First of all it is not an investment if you know what an investment was and how the system works then you would know this. An investment is something where you give someone money and do NOTHING and they pay you in return. in Zeek rewards you MUST place ads each day AND give away free samples to customers."

Did you actually *read* my section on "Is ZeekRewards an investment"? Did you look up the "Howey test"? Your opinion counts for NOTHING in the court of law. The Howey test was created by a Federal Court. Enough said.

@Dan Scott -- sorry, your comment was stuck in the spam queue, had to "resurrect" it.

You wrote: "Registered complaints with the North Carolina Attorney General as of July 10, 2012 are as follows: Rex Venture Group (Zeek’s parent company) in business for 15 years - 2 written complaints Zeekler.com - 0 complaint ZeekRewards.com – 1 complaint That's pretty freakin good!"

Are you *sure* you're citing the correct numbers? PatrickPretty.com said they called the AG's office and there are AT LEAST TEN complaints.

http://www.patrickpretty.com/2012/06/20/bulletin-n...

You wrote: "Also, how do you account for an Alexa Ranking on Zeekler.com of 1257?"

What does Alexa stats justify the company's legality? It doesn't. It's completely unrelated. How do you explain ZeekReward's global rank of 127 (yes, one hundred and twenty seven) then? What did all your ads do? Zeekler should be WAY more popular than ZeekRewards if your ads are working! How do you explain THAT?!

You wrote: "Why did you convenently skip that.. answer the question please? "

Because it makes no sense. If you can explain *why* I should include it with logic and evidence, I'll gladly debate you on the point. However, you are supposed to explain YOUR side, i.e. prove it's not a scam, or prove the points I raised are wrong. You've done NEITHER.

You wrote: "You appear like insane Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch.com who bashes ALL natural therapies and leaves the corrupt pharmaceutical cartel alone."

I am aware of Dr. Barrett's website, but you're going off topic, and this is your free "warning" to stay on topic. Discuss Zeekler or ZeekRewards, or get your comments banned.


Georgi 4 years ago

There are so omany mistakes in this post for example

•Profit pool -- post ads elsewhere, one a day, and make sure you have people (who paid to join) under you that qualifies you, and you can get a share in the profit pool.

- this is just not true. You have or not have people under you just dont matter for profit pool share.

The man is not informed at all or make it for puprose.


4 years ago

well you once again did not listen to me. I know zeekler has not been around for 15 years REX VENTURE GROUP HAS. They have other mlms that they have been doing over those 15 years. THOSE have not been shut down by the government. rsblue21 first of all i never said it was hard i told you what you must do each day. I see the comments relating to Alexa. One thing you also need to be looking at is the fact that this is a global website so it may not be as popular in the US but in europe the website is even better ranked so you can check that out as well. I do apologize that i spelled dooly's name wrong but i was just on the site reading comments and that's how it was spelled by the one guy writing comments so i wrote it that way. I do know what the Howey Test is but I am not sure of the relevance unless they are under review because of it? Also you question how well the advertising works for Zeekler. If you read Dooly's posts each time then you would have seen the results of just how much traffic comes to ZEEKLER. The first year of business zeekler did the normal advertising tv radio etc but was not happy with the results of it. BUT with the network marketing business they are now the number two penny auction in the world. They work directly with government agencies and i know this is an opinion in your mind but i have a hard time believing that they would not be under review by now if it was illegal. you asked how i know about the other mlm's that we make money off of. if you went on your back office which you don't have, then you would see big links to the other ones that you can participate in. At the end of the day my uncle is very wealthy and business smart, he also knows the owner Paul Burks personally and is very impressed with him. You don't have to believe in the company and that's fine but at the end of the day i am making a lot of money and my uncle is doing close to have a million. Whether it is a scheme or not we can debate until the sun goes down. All I know is Zeekler makes a lot of money and the advertising has helped their profits a lot and at the end of the day i get paid.


4 years ago

also one other thing is that i know in other places you have asked where are the real customers not the ones we send bids too. I get new customers all the time from my ad's in fact i have more from that than i do from ones i gave to from my own doing. In fact i just got one this morning.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Georgi -- that requirement to have downlines was removed sometime in April or May 2012 by ZeekRewards. It *was* there. Apparently I missed a reference. Thank you! Will update that very soon. However, your "inference" from that single mistake was illogical.

@A -- are you *sure* I didn't read your correctly?

You wrote: "REX VENTURE GROUP ... have other mlms that they have been doing over those 15 years. THOSE have not been shut down by the government. "

What does that have to do with ZeekRewards, other than common ownership? They have complete different business models and different business practices. NONE of them are as successful as ZeekRewards. Are you *trying* to say that because other businesses in RVG are undetermined legally (legality unknown), ZeekRewards must be legal? That would be non-sense.

You wrote: "I see the comments relating to Alexa. One thing you also need to be looking at is the fact that this is a global website so it may not be as popular in the US but in europe the website is even better ranked so you can check that out as well. "

And I already told that other guy: What does Alexa stats justify the company's legality? It doesn't. It's completely unrelated. How do you explain ZeekReward's global rank of 127 (yes, one hundred and twenty seven) then? What did all your ads do? Zeekler should be WAY more popular than ZeekRewards if your ads are working! How do you explain THAT?!

You wrote: " I do know what the Howey Test is but I am not sure of the relevance unless they are under review because of it?"

Howey Test is a 4-part test from the SCOTUS that precisely defines what constitutes an INVESTMENT. If it passes all 4 parts, it's an investment. As you are the one who insisted it's NOT an investment, then you insist Howey test is not relevant, perhaps you need to reexamine your position, and your knowledge of the Howey test.

You wrote: "The first year of business zeekler did the normal advertising tv radio etc but was not happy with the results of it. BUT with the network marketing business they are now the number two penny auction in the world. "

The first year of business did not have ZeekRewards, as you just stated. So the question you *should* be asking is... who's playing those auctions, just affiliates, or real customers bidding? Also, your story is not correct. Zeekler started as FSCAuctions in March 2010, with a MLM pay plan. Name change was in June 2010 to Zeekler. If you search on Youtube you can still find video ads about FSCAuctions. Your theory that "MLM caused Zeekler's success" is not supported because Zeekler was ALREADY MLM before it was called Zeekler. As you pointed out, Paul Burks and RVG has been doing MLMs for 15 years. It's all they do.

You wrote: "They work directly with government agencies and i know this is an opinion in your mind but i have a hard time believing that they would not be under review by now if it was illegal."

You used the word "believe". That would indicate an OPINION, would it not? But let's accept your premise for the moment.

If they think they are legal (accepting your premise contingent), why did they hire that bunch of lawyers, almost TWO YEARS AFTER LAUNCH of Zeekler? To borrow your phrasing, I find it hard to believe that need compliance lawyers if they don't worry about being illegal.

My point is you really don't know, and you're doing an "it's legal until the government acts" fallacy.

You ended your argument by stating that "All I know is Zeekler makes a lot of money and the advertising has helped their profits a lot and at the end of the day i get paid."

That's what all of Madoff's victim said every day, until 2008. So it doesn't really mean anything.

I do thank you for a civil conversation, something that is... lacking from your fellow Zeek affiliates.


Bruce Deery 4 years ago

Man ! You must have a lot of time on your hands..... Get a LIFE !


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Bruce Deery -- same goes for you buddy. And a friendly warning: stick to the topic: ZeekRewards, or you're not welcome. Same goes for EVERYBODY.


Imjustsaying 4 years ago

Hey, K. Chang, I don't know if this hub is your bread and butter or what but it does sounds like you need to get a life tho. Base on my research the last several months everyone that's been a part of zeek are all happy camper, I'm talking about everyone from beginning to current so why don't you let the government/federal decide for themself. Time will tell... Everyone please don't worry for the zeeks people...we all know what we're getting into.


SChoi 4 years ago

Imjustsaying - No, not everyone is a happy camper. Cashing out ASAP.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Imjustsaying -- don't you mean everybody *you* are exposed to are happy campers? Since Zeek's official forums only allow positive thinking, are you *sure* you are reading a proper sample?

As for "we all know what we're getting into"... Well, scammers are known to use that excuse... even in court. One guy in Texas argued that the "special sentence enhancement" for tricking elders doesn't apply to him because of the same thing you said: "they know what they're getting into, they are of sound mind and all that". The court didn't like that at all.

Stick to proper logic please.


notperfect1 4 years ago

The reason I joined ZR yesterday was to personally investigate the ZR system myself since a lot of people in my community are falling for this. I contacted the main person who claimed that he was sponsoring more than 2,000 people. He instructed me over the phone how to join ZR using his ID & PW and when I got my own ID & PW, I first had to post an AD. This is exactly what he told me to do: click on "Advertising Options", then "Step 1. Choose an AD to place", then I copied one of the Silver PRC ADs, and scrolled down the screen to click on "continue to step 2 - AD venues". Then without choosing any of the AD company links, I was told to scroll all the way down and click on "continue to step 3 - submit your AD"(Basically I DID NOT even post an AD). I filled out the form on "submit your AD" even though I did not post an AD. Then, when I went back to "Back Office" screen, I saw a green light banner stating "You are qualified for Cash Rewards for the next 23 hours, 59 minutes, xx seconds". And when I checked my back office screen this afternoon it said "Since 7/14/2012 10:25:48 PM, There have been 9 visitors to your ZeekRewards Home Page!". Now my retail points pool report states "110.99 points" as bonus balance. I cheated posting an ad (per my sponsor's instructions) and I still got extra .99 points. HOW DOES THIS WORK?


Jimmy 4 years ago

@a -

"ZeekRewards had always been described as advertising division of Zeekler, not for any other MLMs. This is right off ZR's website. You're like the fifth or sixth person to claim they also advertise ALL of RVG's businesses. Where are you getting this stuff?"

Fail. Zeek Rewards also includes FSCstore and Shopping Daisy which are other parts of RVG. Even though these generate almost zero revenue, and Shopping Daisy hasn't been working for most affiliates since March 2012, the point is that you are claiming that kschang and others are idiots for not reading what's right on Zeek Rewards website, but you seem to be the one that hasn't read all of the information.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jimmy -- I think *I* asked A that question. You may have misquoted there. Yes, shopping daisy and "retail store" (never explicitly described as FSCStores) was mentioned in 6 ways to pay, but it was IMPLIED it's under auspices of Zeekler, not separate parts of RVG.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Notperfect1 -- while your data is not enough of a sample to be significant (Zeek now boasts like 100000 affiliates) it's nonetheless appreciated. I have long SUSPECTED that the "ad posting" is not really enforced, but then, it is impossible to prove without examining their backend.


jack 4 years ago

hmm.. i'm debating whether to zero out my account. How much longer do you guys think Zeek Rewards will last?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jack -- I believed I mentioned at least twice that I'll be "mildly surprised" if it managed to survive to New Year's, but that's my personal opinion, nothing more. The Zeek affiliates will of course say "It'll last several years!". The really dedicated ones will say "Forever!"

As it takes 2-3 months for you to pull all your money out, you need to plan ahead.

There are basically three ways Zeek can end (theoretically)

1) Cops show up one day and shut the place down and seize all its assets (see Ad Surf Daily)

2) Zeek ran out of money and did a Madoff-like confession

3) Zeek lost so much market share due to competition and cashing out it closes by itself, transfering all your stuff to some new company they started

The one you REALLY need to worry about is Door 1... There will be no warning at all. Door 2 may have a little warning... if you see it. Everybody is hoping for Door 3, of course.

What's that old adage? Ah "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst."


steve 4 years ago

@kschang what do you think about www.globalwealthtrade.com mlm business,can i have your opinion regarding this business?


Ponzivic 4 years ago

Hi Kevin,interested to know you have targetted New Year as end game time for Zeek will be very interesting to see how it goes but my gut feeling is it all depends upon intervention by the authorities,other than that I think it could go for years yet.

If we assume you are correct that Zeek is a Ponzi then history shows that such schemes in the past have lasted for many years as in Madoff for one example but there are other precedents which are more similar to Zeek.

There was an online Ponzi called Winclub run by some Finnish guys which was allegedly based on Forex trading and lasted for approx 4 years before the owners did a runner and eventually one guy went to jail,there were supposedly 10,000 members at the end and the total 'invested' was allegedly 100 million euros.

In that 4 years there were constantly accusations of it being a Ponzi in forums and blogs online and even in the Finnish TV and newspapers but no investigation by any authority until the owners packed up and left for warmer climes and members reported them to the police.

There were rumours that senior police officers and members of the judiciary were themselves members of Winclub with substantial holdings.

While the scheme was going subscribers typically trebled their money every 6 months and their 'investment' was tied for that period but at the end of that time the original sum plus all the profit could be taken out in one lump sum.

Interestingly most people typically let the majority of the 'profits' they made in the scheme reinvest but even so there were Scandinavians drawing 20,000 euros plus from the scheme for years and I have seen their bank account statements to prove it.

If we examine that scheme and compare the 'Ponzi viability' value it was much less likely to keep rolling than Zeek but still lasted years.

As stated Winclub had a much more relaxed regime about withdrawals than Zeek with its rolling points retirement and only withdrawing profits in effect

Winclub paid you 10% of all the profit made by all your personally signed up affiliates too.

Winclub had no office or premises or even a realistic pretence of demonstrating how the returns were allegedly generated let alone a lawyer and compliance policy.

My money is on Zeek to keep going for years unless or until intervention by the authorities


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Steve -- I believe BehindMLM has a profile on that biz you are interested in. I have commented there 7 months ago.

@Ponzivic -- My name's not Kevin, but it doesn't really matter. ;)

It seriously depends on how many people complain to get this thing shut down. I believe Madoff to be an anomaly and since then a lot more Ponzi schemes have been forced to the surface and bashed. I personally consider ASD to be far closer to Zeek than Winclub, probably because I live in the US and I tend to refer to US cases. I am not familiar with the WinClub Ponzi so I'll go do some research.


Ponzivic 4 years ago

Sorry I got your name wrong,

Who are you expecting to complain?the guys in Zeek won't complain as long as they are making money and the authorities won't be interested from complaints form people who have not lost any money or who have not any other proof of illegal activity- exactly what happened in the other Ponzi I mentioned.

Where do you get the figure of 100,000 affilliates I have heard various figures all much higher than this ?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Ponzivic -- well, the various AG's offices are aware of the business now, but you are right, they're so secretive "probable cause" will not be met unless they did something REALLY dumb.

In March or April they released "2011 income disclosure statement" which cited a figure of 15000 active US affiliates and about 70000 affiliates overall. You *could* use 200000 if you like. They don't really release their own numbers, which is ANOTHER sign of a Ponzi scheme: excessive secrecy.


Steve86 4 years ago

I have heard some members of congress have invested in Zeekrewards so it will obviously be around for awhile.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Steve86 -- I don't trust rumors. :) I've seen too many of these "rumors" turned out to be complete fakes. For a while FHTM affiliates was telling everybody that Ken Lewis, head of BofA, was their member. Turns out, his wife was introduced to it by a friend.

How about Ad Surf Daily? Its affiliates (heck, some could be your upline!) told prospective recruits that Andy Bowdoin won a medal from President Bush and VP Cheney for being a business leader. Turns out, he got the "donation award" for donating to the Republican party.

So it ain't the truth, but it's easy to pass on information that somehow you believe validate your position without verification. So no, I wouldn't trust rumors, unless it can be verified, but then it wouldn't be rumor, right?


Gajafa 4 years ago from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Also some high profile members of ad surf daily (now shut down with leader in jail) are pushing zeek pretty hard, so steve your comment means diddly.


Frightened Affiliate 4 years ago

K Chang,

I don't know if Troy deleted my comment or not but it is not "awaiting moderation" nor is it showing up on his hub so I don't know what happened.

The question I asked him and it seems he has covered it on the surface is what are the new qualifiers for Zeek affiliates? You may not have access to Zeek top management like he does but I trust your opinion all the same. My real question is will these new qualifiers be in the form or requirements to recruit new affiliates?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Frightened -- I don't know, I doubt Troy deletes comments. It may be due to your browser cookies or something. He has an honor code that if the company doesn't about it, that he won't release info ahead of the company to steal their thunder. So far, he has been honorable, so stay tuned. I seriously doubt they'll add the recruiting part back in, though they may require affiliates to sell to real customers. It's related to Amway's "10 retail customer rule"


Frightened Affiliate 4 years ago

Okay I see. I was worried they would require affiliates to recruit more affiliates. Even so, this will extra work will not encourage new affiliates to join which, assuming it's a ponzi, is Zeeks primary goal. Would you agree? Although I do see at as a good move to keep the authorities from asking too many questions if Zeek starts having real customers!

If you don't mind me asking I would like a bit of advice. I am at just under 10,000 VIP points and have only recovered about $350 to date. Do you think Zeek will be paying for another two plus months? That is all I need to get my money back and then some. I am currently on day 50. I understand the decision is mine but I'm just looking for some guidance.

Troy got back to me. Probably my bad on that one but his response left much to be desired as usual.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Frightened -- I welcome real and substantial changes to business model at Zeek so it no longer look like a Ponzi. However, until I actually see it and verify, I cannot make a call. In the meanwhile Zeek supporters are like "this is going to solve everything!"

I don't know how long Zeek's going to last. I would be the last guy to ask. I previously said I will be "mildly surprised" if Zeek lasts until New Year's day and I stand by that. I haven't seen anything to change my mind.


Brian 4 years ago

It does not take much brain to criticize so they are a dime a dozen……I’ve have even come across people that were criticizing a product that they admitted have never tried (or knew anyone that used it) but said nevertheless they know it does not work……some people just have an ax to grind and don’t care if the person is innocent or guilty, as long as they chop some heads off. But there is hardly a brick-and Mortar Company that exists that is not being accused of something bad on the internet. Even inventers of some of the products we use today had critics.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Brian -- It doesn't take too many brain cells to see that shooting oneself in the foot is not a smart thing to do. No personal experience is needed. Some people just want to protect whatever they think makes them money, whether it's a scam or not is of no concern to them, but it makes them sleep easier at night believing it's not, as they can't POSSIBLY be dumb enough to be involved in one. As Michael Shermer , famous skeptic, said, "self-deception" is very common. All you need to do is BELIEVE.


fry 4 years ago

watch yourself man, there are a lot of crazy ppl in the world and with all your negative/insulting comments, and the money these ppl are making, your asking for trouble. Who's to say some crazy person here doesn't fly SF, hunt you down and beat the crap out of you. I know I never post such negative/insults online against ppl for fear it could happen to me. It's easy to find your address just from your IP address.

Just be safe dude.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

Given that San Francisco is a huge city, they'll have to *find* me first.

As someone did wish me ill, I posted that comment to make it public. If anything happens to me, well, look for the crazies. :)


SChoi 4 years ago

@fry, @KS - Calling SEC, FTC, NC DOJ in the morning.


observers 4 years ago

Dear fry - what an idiot comment to make. . .


rsblue21 4 years ago

For the past month, I have been "placing ads" as per Zeek rules. However, although I fill in the form on the Zeekler site stating where I am placing my ad, NO REAL AD HAS BEEN PLACED. So if Zeek doesnt care then if I really place an ad, and if I am being "rewarded" for nothing, is that not further evidence of it being a ponzi scheme. My "dumb" girlfriend (thank god she does not read this!) has been innocently doing the same for 120 days since she does not understand how to place an ad. So in reality the ad placement is all fake.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@rsblue21 -- while your own example doesn't establish a pattern, notperfect1 above also reported the same thing: seems Zeek doesn't check ads.

I've long suspected how much resources they dedicate to "verify" the "qualifier" to get paid. With several hundred thousand URLs being posted per day you'd need to run a script 24/7 to verify the URL is even valid, plus spot checking to make sure it contains a real Zeek ad. I have suspected the spot check rate is low to nil, but then, there's no real proof unless their backend's examined.


ponzivic 4 years ago

rsblue,you are some guy first you want to get Zeekler shut down and your girl loses $6000 then you call her dumb hard to see which she would get more upset about.

I reckon if she has been in Zeek for 120 days and has been placing the 'fake' ads for all that time she will have at least 15,000 VIP points accrued so if she sets her repurchase percentage to zero she will be able to take out her original 6k in about a month and everything she gets back after that will be profit.

But maybe she is not dumb enough to listen to you!


Joe Mama 4 years ago

I've often wondered if you could just post the URL to someone else's ad and call it good. If they bothered to check, they'd see a zeekler ad and assume it's yours. Would be easy to do with sites like classifiedsgiant.com which is nothing more than a website filled with zeekler spam.


Roddle 4 years ago

Great read Chang! I'm confused about one thing, though. How do you know how many bids(on avarage) is used to buy particular item? Is there a way to confirm it other then actually watching how the auctions end(but it's hard to get a reliable sample this way)? Naturalpath also mentioned that 500 auctions per day are running on zeekler.com, any idea how to confirm that?


Erin 4 years ago

Yes JM you can Did it once , had to place the hubbys ad and one for someone else No body noticed I'm thinkng you could post the same link everyday and they wouldnt know or wouldnt care since the ad doesnt mean anything anyway


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Roddie -- I'm afraid the only way is to monitor the auctions for 24 hours or more and note the completed results. However, keep in mind bids *used* do not represent profit. Bits PURCHASED represents profit.

I would say LESS than 500 auctions per day are on Zeekler. I've seen numbers anywhere from 150 to 500. I think the truth is closer to 250, but I'm not sure myself.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Ponzivic -- ah, but they're enamored to the idea of "passive income" grow the points", and "delayed gratification" speech! After all, that's what Zeek wants, right? Sheeple, not people, who will flip their toilet paper roll on command, and don't ask questions, right? :)


Jimmy 4 years ago

I think there are between 100-120 auctions per day once you remove the free auctions (which almost always close more than the actual cash out value, meaning they are nothing more than a vehicle for burning free bids which expire after 30 days anyways).

The numbering on the Zeek auctions are not easily deducible from just looking at auction ID's. You have to do something like run a full recording for a week in order to track the actual auctions. There are some odd jumps in auction numbers that makes you think the number is closer to 250 but that is either an IT/web app logic problem, or a major deke by Zeek to trick those trying to do macro-analysis of the auction volume.


ponzivic 4 years ago

KS,not sure about the Sheeple bit,if you are saying that Zeek want blind obedience from their members,well sure they do but who are more oppressed and blindly subservient the 99% who accept that their lot is to slave for wages like the man says or those who try something different to make some money?

Zeek may be not for everyone,might be a Ponzi and might disappear tomorrow but there are people who have already made money from it.

I understand why people put money and effort into Zeek to change their lives but I don't understand why anyone would stand and look at it and try to find whats wrong with it as even if they are right nothing will change for them.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Ponzivic -- there are two kinds of sheeple, those that don't even know they're sheeple, and those who know but don't care, as long as they get paid they'll be a lap dog if that's what it takes.

Why would I analyze something for free? Philanthropy, of course. That, and I'm gonna write a book on scams soon, full of explanations about the excuses STUPID scammers make to justify the scam.


Dan 4 years ago

I don't how reliable AllPennyAuctions.com is but they run the numbers for most penny auction web sites. According to them Zeekler ran 968 auctions over the past 7 days.


ponzivic 4 years ago

KS ok I get the philanthropy idea but why just focus on the tiny proportion of the population who get scammed by Ponzi's when the other huge majority are being scammed by the government and big business without even realising it.The whole economic system is a huge Ponzi the governments and banks print money with no real means of repaying it and no thought to the morality of that.Maybe the mlm ers and Zeekers at least realize the fact that the old values we were taught are long gone destroyed by the greed and avarice of the crooked politicians and Goldman Sachs


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Ponzivic -- so "leave the small fries alone"? Come on... I gotta walk before I can run... :D


Jimmy 4 years ago

@kschang - there was a similar post on PPBlog by a "Thomas". This seems to be new line of defense now, rather than trying to defend Zeek, they are saying "there are worse evils". You had a good response on why Social Security is not a pyramid/not a Ponzi. Would be a good addition to your collection of fallacies and responses to them "the Federal Reserve is a poniz/scam, why don't you go after them".

There's probably a fallacy in there somewhere "appeal to worse injustice" or "appeal to greater evils". Those authors who make this appeal wouldn't be happy if they were mugged or had a fire in their home and emergency services said "sorry, we are busy fighting more severe emergencies than yours".


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jimmy -- I have an entry called "so is everything else defense" on schedule. Maybe I can push that one up.


CVann 4 years ago

May zeek reward continue to be successful company and goes on forever so that the rest of us had a chance to look for a opportunity and make money! As long as the company is real and affiliate make money, so be it Come on people! let have common sense and stop criticize the company that they are scam! There are people out there that try to feed themselves and their family! whoever had a negative side about this company should worry about other thing that are more complicate!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@CVann -- so you only care that it pays you, and "if it was shut down it could hurt a lot of good people", correct?

Interesting, because both excuses were used by scammers. The part about "could hurt a lot of people" was spoken by none other than Ponzi schemer Andy Bowdoin, just just pled guilty two months ago. As for you don't care whether it's a scam or not as long as it pays you, well, I'm glad you're honest about that. However, don't be surprised if you end up like Neo who's gonna get flushed down the tubes, realizing it was all a "dream"


jack 4 years ago

I'm having a moral dilemma.

On the one hand, I want an easy way to make money. I'm been out of work for some time now and need to make some money pretty badly.

On the other hand, I have a feeling deep down inside this company is not completely legit. Should I sign up some friends? What if the company gets shut down in a few months? I may lose trust in a friend or two but the risk should be theirs alone.

And what if the company is still around in a couple of years and I pulled my money out long before then? I would be kicking myself. My friends may be kicking themselves.

These are some hard choices to make!


jack 4 years ago

Btw, Kasey, do you still have an active zeek account? Were you ever a member? I'm curious to know.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Jack -- already told everybody, NOT involved in MLM, ANY, EVER. I analyze some suspect scams for fun. I think it's a couple comments up.

As for can you pass up the chance at 'easy money' vs. the risk of LOSING such money, only YOU can make that decision.

This company, even if you don't consider it a scam, is so opaque that you just don't KNOW the risk level. If you buy say, AT&T stock, it's about as "rock-solid" as stock can be. If you buy penny-stock, you know it's going to be risky as heck.

You just don't KNOW with Zeek, esp. when they tell you that they are spending YOUR money for THEIR promotion, and they promise to pay you back for it, but they insist it's NOT an investment!

With a casino, I know my odds playing any particular game. Same with lottery.

Do you know your odds in Zeek? Are there risk factors they are not telling you, or simply told you it's not important, it's a secret, and so on and so forth?


observers 4 years ago

@Jack my 2 cents - never involve friends in a risk without fully informing them. . .send them to this page - tell them you are walking in with your eyes wide open and you are giving them the same opportunity. Otherwise, when things go south, you will be remembered bitterly. . .the question I ask myself, "Would I tell my mom and encourage her to do this?" If the answer is no, the friends don't hear it either. . .


Johnny 4 years ago

I have done a lot of research online to find a way to fend off a family member that has been pressuring my family nonstop to join Zeek Rewards. All of the reviews online seem to be written by people that are trying to get others to join under them. Thanks for the ammo.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@DaveFL -- the positivity from all those people who are member of the program is absolutely amazing. ZeekRewards is one of the most opaque companies out there, who rarely if ever answer questions, randomly cancels people's accounts and lies about it to the public, then pretends all problems will be solved, and sweeps the rest under the carpet and pretend they don't exist. Its CEO gave bogus explanation about banning six countries. Its COO gave bogus explanation about eWallet, then blamed everybody for not listening and not obeying orders.

You won't be able to earn much without putting in your money ("i.e. buy giveaway bids") and hope for a profit share. Sure it'll give you a taste... of the WRONG STUFF.

I don't allow affiliate links in the comments. Feel free to repost without the affiliate link.


Weliveonce 4 years ago

I just love when people badmouth other people's business bc they probably failed in their business. One of biggest complainers in life. I wonder what else he complains about daily? Get off the computer and go get laid or something. You PMS on Zeek too much. lol. There's alot of comp plans like zeek out there that are still going strong today. You need to do more research. You just MAD!


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Weliveonce -- *sigh* instead of discussing Zeek you rant about all the "negativity" instead. Clearly, you have nothing useful to contribute. Is any of what I mentioned false? Or you just don't like the tone? This is your only warning to stay on topic. Discuss zeek, or have your comment banned.


Kan 4 years ago

@Weliveonce--- It looks like someone is part of zeek rewards and has dumped some Moola into it. Your bubble will burst, and your relationship with friends will be over because they are the bottom feeders LOL.


Knoble 4 years ago

Mr Chang I did some research that should help address your concerns on the uslegal.com website under profit sharing law it states:

"The amount of future profit benefits that employees will receive from their profit-sharing accounts depends ENTIRELY on their account BALANCE. The amount of their account balance will include the employer's contribution from profits, any interest earned, any capital gains or losses, and possibly forfeitures from other plan participants. Forfeitures result when an employee leaves the company before they are vested, and the funds in their accounts are distributed to the remaining plan participants"

It seems based on this legal definition Zeek rewards would be required to pay a higher amount out to Affiliates that have higher balances in their accounts regardless if one affiliate did the same amount of work as another affiliate. In past posts I notices concerns over why one affiliate would get paid more than another affiliate if they both only placed one add. The reason is because its the law, the payout on profit sharing programs are determined by the account balance not the amount of work an employee did.

The other big concern seems to be where are the profits coming from? Are they coming from bids being purchased by customers or from affiliates "buying Zeek sample bids". Logic would conclude both. The company makes a profit when bids are purchased from customers for their auction or if an Affiliate "Buys Zeek sample Bids" they are also making a purchase contributing to the companies overall profit. Nothing is wrong with making a profit when a Affiliate "Buys Zeek Sample Bids" they are buying something. According to US Law on Profit sharing programs than the company would pay out contributions from profits based entirely on the the affiliates account balance. It would not matter which revenue source is greater for Zeek as long as they are sharing profits based on the Affiliates balance not the amount of adds they placed because that is the law. I appreciate you encouraging people to do research because I would never have found this definition if you had not.

This actually helped address my concerns if it is a Ponzi scheme that seemed to arise from "what is there revenue source" because according to US Law they are sharing profits correctly. It can come from sales to Affiliates or customers either way its a sale, nothing is wrong with that and if profit lowers so will their payout. It clearly says on their website a source of income is Profit sharing "potential" not a guarantee. This is not illegal it is "Profit sharing."

I appreciate you encouraging professional responses on this hub, thanks.


JackSquat 4 years ago

To kschang: You dissect every single sentence and word everyone posts. You are too smart for the common folk. You are tiring.


Swen1 4 years ago

BSChang.....My God, are you STILL going on about Zeek Rewards? This company CONTINUES TO STRIVE AND GROW AND IMPROVE itself while you continue to bash it with post after post after post.....ad nauseum.

As of today BSCHang, your "review" has been wrong....because Zeek as I just mentioned continues to do VERY WELL!! And don't sent a note telling us that one day they will be shut down because you say they are a ponzi scheme. Your posts are getting TIRED, AND OLD.

Perhaps you should stop with all the nonsense and move onto another company you want to try and ruin with your "review."


MB 4 years ago

Thank you for writing this article and commenting on many other sites dealing with Zeek Rewards and Zeekler. I had a family in member who was about to put some significant money into it along with myself. I was a bit confused on how it actually works, so i delayed them from putting money in until i was able to research it a little more. I read multiple sites and you were by far the most educated on the subject. I feel was the intent of those involved was to confuse those who were unsure and hope there sponsor could talk them into it. You saved me big time. Thanks for not quitting and enduring all of the negative from the others, most of which seemed to be affiliates. I wish you had a paypal link posted and i could reward you for your efforts. So i will help out by clicking on all of you links.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Knoble -- thank you for a level-headed answer. However, I will have to disagree with you on the parts regarding the "source" of the income, and the profit-sharing legalities.

First, I'd love to verify the stuff for myself. Can you provide some links and such? Wikipedia says very clearly such plans in the US are only used for pensions, not in direct sharing of daily revenue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit-sharing_agreem...

As for "paying more to those with higher balances"... wouldn't that make it an INVESTMENT, something Zeek insist they're not? I already addressed the Howey test aspects.

Purchase by affiliates is actually illegal "inventory loading", if it is only used to qualify oneself for payment. Both FTC vs. Koscot and Weber vs. Omnitrition has made it clear that sales must be to OUTSIDE customers, and in SIGNIFICANT portions. FTC have since defined the criteria that 51% or more of sales must be to non-affiliates. Do you think Zeek is meeting this amount? Or are you arguing that as long as even 1% of sales is from real retail customers, Zeek is legal?

I'd LOVE professional and courteous replies from Zeek defenders, that is well reasoned and researched, even if it is "biased". I only get them very rarely, if you read through the replies.

@Jack Squat -- As you can't contribute anything USEFUL to the conversation, thank you for your irrelevant rant, but please don't come back

@Swen1 -- you again? Still trolling? Guess it's all fun and games to you! Why don't you go defend something that is MORE likely to be innocent?

@MB -- Putting my Paypal info out there would expose me to lot more attacks. :) Your thanks is appreciated.


Knoble 4 years ago

Hi Mr. Chang,

Just go to ask.com and ask the question "are profit sharing pools investment" must ask investment not investments(or you'll get info on how to set one up) and it will take you to the uslegal.com website section on profit sharing plans.

It says "Profit sharing" is a type of "compensation" paid to employees by companies, does not state they are a investment.

It also says "rather than using a set formula, companies may decide to contribute a discretionary amount each year. That is, the company's owners or directors-at their discretion-decide what an appropriate amount should be."

So it's at managements discretion and Zeekler has decided instead of paying out annually that they pay out daily.

Also to your other point they are sometimes done tax deferred (hence treated like a pension) but it is not required. It states "Profit sharing bonuses are treated as income for tax purposes upon receipt UNLESS made to deferred compensation plans." So they are not required to be tax deferred for retirement purposes.

They are normally tied to a percentage of ownership but at Zeeks discretion, which they have the right to do, they have tied it your VIP point balance. The same way an employee may have contributed more to a company, someone who has purchased more VIP points to give away or use have contributed more to the company.

Also the SEC does not regulate Profit sharing pools (unless stock is awarded) so they do not consider it a investment, it is shared profit at "managements discretion".

Also regarding inventory loading the points retire in 90 days if they are not given away so they cannot hold onto the inventory. Plus it is well documented that Zeek has the highest customer/affiliate ratio in the MLM industry according to Dooly(think that is his name).

I would love to type more but my wife wants to watch a movie with me but I wanted to get back to you, thank you.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Knoble -- thanks for the reference. I can see where you're coming from, I'll take your answer point by point.

1) The USLegal definition is talking about a retirement pension plan. ERISA stands for Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974. That is an INVESTMENT. Unless you're reading different one than I am?

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/profit-sharing-pl...

So it actually IS an investment. This is further confirmed by US Department of Labor

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/publications/profitsharing...

I fail to see how you figured it's not an investment.

2) If the distribution formula (how the profit is distributed) is based on amount of points BOUGHT, then it is an investment. As VIP points are awarded based on amounts of bids bought and given away, it is essentially bought, and thus, investment.

3) SEC regulates ALL investments or things that passes the Howey test. This was established in SEC vs. Howey, when Howey described their program as "Land Improvement Contract", not an investment. SEC went after them any way, and it went all the way to SCOTUS.

Furthermore, SEC went after ASD, a Ponzi scheme, despite its vehement denial that it is NOT an investment, and NEVER referred to itself as an investment.

Thus, needing "stocks" for SEC is a misunderstanding on your part.

Furthermore, quoting from you, "someone who has purchased more VIP points to give away or use have contributed more to the company."

Did you realize you just described a Ponzi scheme? Affiliates buy bids, bids generate profits, profits are shared with affiliates. Affiliates are in essence, paying each other. Thus Ponzi scheme.

4) Points retire. Bids are "given away" just so they can qualify for RPP. Buying stuff just to qualify for a bonus is inventory loading. The point expiration is irrelevant.

Definition of inventory loading is available here

http://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/glossary.html

5) I have NOT seen ANY third-party accessible documentation that Zeek has published a clear customer/affiliate ratio. All I have seen are two quotes from top Zeek officials citing 1:25 or so ratio. There was no audit numbers, no definition of customer, and no definition of affiliate given. If you find such "well documented figure", please post a link so we can go over it in detail.


rock-on702 4 years ago

im too late... i sunk in the mother load and now having buyers remorse. what can i do?


Knoble 4 years ago

Mr. Chang

I will also try to answer point by point.

1) If you read the first link in its contents it is only talking about profit sharing plans that are tax deferred. That is why their is a big 401k listed in that link. Profit sharing plans are a popular way for business owners to compensate employees while avoiding over regulation. That is why the link you provided says ERISA regulates MANY profit sharing plans not all because not all are tax deferred and the cash can be used for Christmas for example.

2) Distribution in profit sharing plans as we covered earlier are based on "ENTIRELY on a employees account balance" as per USLaw.com In Zeeks case they track this through VIP point balance. You listed 6 ways to generate compensation and instead of taking cash this compensation can be converted to VIP points increasing your balance thus increasing an employee(or Affiliate) share of the profit. If you generate revenue you should be compensated.

3) The Howey test is really easy if you work harder and generate more sales of bids your gains are not "soley based on the effort of others". If I sponsor you and your front line organization generates 70,000 VIP point bid sales you will get a 10% override. If you had done nothing you would not be getting that override. On top of that you listed 6 sources of income in the compensation plan any of that compensation can be converted to increase your balance or you can use the cash as you see fit. So work is involved. Lazy people will get less out of any opportunity.

4) See the previous, you work and generate revenue you make more. Inventory loading would limit the revenue you generate if you sit on it and is not a taught technique in any Zeekler training session I have seen.

5) your correct except that isn't Mr. Dooly's organization a 3rd party. Maybe there is a link somewhere but I am on the east coast and need to go to bed lol.

I apologize if my answers were terse but its late here, thank you.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Knoble -- and here's some replies:

1) so what you're saying is "profit sharing plan" really has very little to do with Zeek's RPP, which is not even called "profit" now, but merely POINTS pool. Would that be correct?

Sounds like we're referring to the wrong definition. That is actually "deferred profit-sharing plans", when we want the plain profit-sharing.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/profit-sharing/

2) The problem is VIP points are given out based on affiliate purchases, while that profit sharing "account balance" is defined as "will include the employer's contributions from profits, any interest earned, any capital gains or losses, and possibly forfeitures from other plan participants. "

That account balance is talking about actual money, not some sort of artificial points system. That account balance is talking about an investment, something Zeek denies it is.

3) You are not rewarded for more work in Zeek. You are rewarded for putting money into Zeek and leaving it in for longer periods of time. Merely posting an ad will not pass scrutiny of Howey Test. US courts have ruled multiple times that only managerial level decisions will fail "on the efforts of others" test. See SEC vs. Turner and SEC vs. ASD which was already mentioned. One tried claiming "recruiting" as that activity, while the other tried claiming "view ads". In fact, this was all in my Hub explained above.

4) So Zeek also provided an avenue for you to "give away" your inventory, so what? BUYING bids just to qualify for bonus pool is inventory loading. Whether they're given out or not is not relevant.

5) Mr. Dooly obtained such stats from Zeek, so the source data is from Zeek, not third-party. Again, no exact definition of customer or affiliate was given. Nor any sort of raw data was given. The stat is useless without context.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@rockon-702 -- I was told that if you go to your backoffice and change your credit card info to some random number, next authorization will fail, and you'll be dropped to "free affiliate", but you can't really "erase" your membership.


rockon-702 4 years ago

i was really asking about the money that has already been used to buy bids... how can i get it back??? or am I just out of luck


Knoble 4 years ago

Mr. Chang

please read carefully from the link we have been reading on the points we covered:

1)Companies use ANY NUMBER of different formulas to calculate the distribution of profits to their employees and have a variety of rules and regulations regarding eligibility. In general, however, TWO types of plans prevail. The FIRST takes the form of cash bonuses under which employees receive a profit-sharing distribution at the end of the year. The main drawback to cash distribution plans is that this income is immediately subject to income tax. This also holds if the bonus is paid out in the form of company stock.

To AVOID immediate taxation, companies are PERMITTED(not required) by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to set up qualified deferred profit-sharing plans. Under a deferred plan, the second type of profit sharing, profit-sharing distributions are held in individual accounts for each employee. Employees are not allowed to withdraw from their profit-sharing accounts except under certain, well-defined conditions. As long as employees do not have easy access to the funds, money in the accounts is not taxed and may earn tax-deferred interest. BLS data reported on this form of profit sharing do not show extent of corporate participation or the number of employees eligible overall.

This really answers the question of flexibility on how its set up. They use a point system to track it and that's their option. After all it is their profit.

You are awarded commissions but the profit sharing system is part of their compensation program as well as commissions. I represent companies that pay me commissions and profit sharing so it's really not uncommon.

Regarding Howey test and inventory loading. Amway is a Billion dollar giant that won in court that we can easily say the same thing about. So I guess when everything is said and done it has to be tested in court but if their claim of customer/affiliate ratio is even half of what they say it is then it smashes any issues or claims that people don't work.

Until that happens everything is open to perspective. As mentioned in previous post if the FTC needs "probable cause" to investigate then that will only happen if they don't pay out. Having said that I am sure Amway paid out their bonuses as scheduled so maybe they will anyway. Again until then people can go tit for tat and it really is just an opinion.

Having said that profit sharing plans are legal and are supposed to be paid out "entirely on their account balance" as per uslegal.com and they are following that rule.

Thank you for your time.


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Knoble -- thank you for your explanation, but then, it doesn't address where the PROFIT is coming from, nor does it explain how will Zeek pass the Howey test.

To profit share, you must have "profit", but there's a difference between retail profit (products sold) vs. product sold only to affiliates and NOT resold. In fact, there is no 90% buyback, a key part of Amway safeguard rule, in Zeek at all, as the bids are ostensibly "given away" in order to qualify oneself for the RPP. Such bid sales generate profit which is then shared with the affiliates, thus, creating a money circulation scheme.


Knoble 4 years ago

Wonder if that would be a doable option 90% buyback if not sold? Problem with that is it says in their compensation plan that part of the profit pool is from all revenue from auctions. So because they pay out profit sharing daily Affiliates who had their bids returned would have to return their shares of the profit.

That would be like the insurance company that has a internal account for agents to hold back charge back commissions for cancelled policies and is reimbursed on future commissions. I would think the only way that would work is if you reduce the profit sharing payout to once a week or longer. Like Amway pays out once a month because it would be a pain in the neck to keep track of daily bids. People would buy 100 for example and miss a auction and return what they don't use the next day. So the accounts would need more time to settle. They probably would not want to open up that can of worms if they can show their affiliate/customer ratio favorably instead. Seems a more efficient way to prove its customer friendly but then again I have not really heard of any real complaints. Assume they have to have a oddball out there that is mad he did not win the Mustang but your always going to have some of that, right?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Knoble -- actually Zeek only PAYS once a week, though calculations are done daily.

Again, the the profits they said are from bid sales, but they didn't say sales to affiliates, or sales to non-affiliates.

Sales to affiliates, NOT for self-consumption, is inventory loading. Affiliates are in fact just buying bids to participate in this bonus pool, thus, revenue/profit derived is NOT from retail sales, and that makes Zeek in violation of the Koscot pyramid test.

If you trace the money, Zeek affiliates are paying themselves, which would make Zeek a Ponzi scheme. Add to that their stance that they are NOT an investment, when they do pass the Howey test, would make them in severe trouble with SEC for selling unregistered securities, fraud, among various other problems.

I have no problem with the auctions themselves, or the commission derived from bid sales... AS LONG AS they are made to non-affiliates, which is court mandated in Weber vs. Omnitrition.


OoOoOoO 4 years ago

ZR maximum input is $10K. California small claim maximum is $10K either. What is the point of $10K? ZR is avoiding something?

The mode to pay ZR and to get REWARDS from ZR seems like someone is doing MONEY LAUNDERING (Just Guess). Concerning about further penalty actions to both ZR and ZR Affiliates by US GOV if this issue comes true.


Knoble 4 years ago

Mr. Chang,

You mean IF they failed the Howey test by being determined growth was "soley based on the effort of others" and I guess that is where we would have to disagree to disagree. Yes because ONE of the forms of compensation out of the SIX is the profit sharing pool they are required to share profits even on small balances (just like a company with a profit sharing plan would pay on lower wage employees balances as well as management) but the other FIVE with the customer/ affiliate ratio(assuming they can prove that if they had to) should offset that. So the SEC would not get involved if it was not a security. After all they do not oversee cash profit sharing plans in non tax deferred plans by other employers.

A good friend of mine that made over a million dollars in a traditional sales business (with employees, managing inventory and daily overhead) during the real estate boom looked at Zeek and one thing he was impressed by is that they limit the VIP bid purchase to 10,000. He felt that the ownership of Zeek did this to control growth so they would limit their overhead as they grew. Honestly that did not impress me as much at the time but when you consider the issues they have had with having to switch from local banks to banks that handle international business better and not to mention what they say was a massive purchase of server upgrades. It reminded me of watching my friend have to expand from one office to five during the real estate boom to support his sales force and it made sense why he would be impressed by that because I know he was stressed out at the time.

The paragraph about sales NOT for self consumption is inventory loading is not logical to me. After all a NuSkin distributor might buy an inventory so they have make up on hand to sell and that is common in any traditional business. Again if they can prove the customer/ affiliate ratio is indeed half of what they say it is then profit is also derived from retail sales, right?


swen3 4 years ago

Hey this is awesome info. I joined Zeek a month ago and after reading this stuff am totally taking it out if I can. Thanks kschang you are the man!!! It took me a while to find some real honest info on ZR because of all the stupid ZR advertising on the internet until I found behindmlm and sent the link to my sponsor lol and he told me not to worry "were safe" then I saw your post to this hub and checked it out and then sent him this link and he hasn't got back to me yet. So i'm thinking he is reading it and starting to realise that maybe ZR isn't as great as he first thought. Keep up the great work mate and as for all the idiots posting crap!!!! back it up with some evidence instead of talking trash all the time.


sam 4 years ago

i have posted my ads and "investd" as you called it, no bids, but yet my account has grown i was 17 when i started and i am now 18 and my account is still growing. all ive done is recruited people and posted an ad everyday. you're a skeptic and i understand but why only touch on negative things about it and say not being negative when in reality you were? the positive definetely outway the bad.. cause ive had no bad nor has my entire family?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Knoble -- SEC goes after investments, even those that insist they are NOT investments, which is what I said before. ASD is one prime example. As for "on the effort of others", thank you for admitting that I have a point there. I believe the examples I cited supports my view, and you don't really have a counterpoint to that.

Your friend is free to invest his money, as long as he was not mislead and is aware of ALL of the risk factors. Zeek is an extremely secretive company that hides negative information by default, and that alone makes it risky to people who wish to join, and there are many other risk factors that are simply NOT CONSIDERED.

Finally NuSkin distributor who "stock up" can get 90% refund within 6 months. Didn't we go through that already? The products are EXPECTED to be retailed, not "dumped"... sorry, "given away".

@Swen3 -- he could have you on "ignore mode". It's one possibility. Better not to make blind speculations. Why not just ask him?

@sam -- so you deny the "negative" factors exist, because you haven't experienced them? Then you are indeed using "anecdotal fallacy".

I wish you all the luck, but please don't use a fallacy to justify your involvement in a potential scam. It illustrate a certain... lack of forethought.


ponzivic 4 years ago

rockon best thing you can do is stick with the programme keep posting your ad every day and set your reinvest % to zero then take out the cash generated when it becomes available,90 days maximum will see you out with a profit but do not cancel your subscription as then you will not be able to cash out


Makinlifeeasier44 4 years ago

Clearly you have an axe to grind with Zeekler. I am from Lexington where

this company is located,a small town not much going on here. It has been my experience with many many close personal friends who have joined this company locally and these people are making money,the office headquarters is ALWAYS busy ,lined out into the street all day everyday.

In small towns you know a lot of people and people talk. Luckily I just happen to know Paul Burkes personally,Ive known him for more than twenty years.I have listened and read different individuals lambast him and his company for the last 15 years, my take on this is "Behind every successful person are a group of haters" .PEOPLE WHO ARE READING THIS you enter into ANY investment you can be assured of this.either you will gain or you will lose! Everyone that i know that is in this is making bank and I am going to join this ! Ive seen the checks ive talked with the banks and yes they dont deal with them anymore locally. For those of you who do not know, banks cannot handle but "X" amount of funds that you can deposit,meaning the government cant insure huge amounts of money!Trust when I say ZEEKLER is a far cry from going under,I dont give a damn if he has little green men in the back crapping the money! getting paid is getting paid bottom line.Now as far as what this critic has to say take it or leave it your choice. He has researched this company with an critical eye obviously cherry picking what he has deemed as factual,however he has yet to include all of the facts. When you write an argumentative review you must address both positive and negative sides in which in this case the author has failed to do so. Guys and Girls do your own research ,make yourself comfortable in your own findings then make your own judgements. Me personally I think that I'm going to prosper from this just like everyone else has.


Makinlifeeasier44 4 years ago

Yes go ahead and yank my post , seems to be you have absolutely no grounded concrete facts to distribute Chang dont delete the comments put em out there. or will it spoil your fun?


kschang profile image

kschang 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA, USA Author

@Ponzivic -- that's another interesting part about Zeek... You can put in money in a big chunk, but you can only get money out in dribbles.

@Makinlifeeasier44 -- I didn't yank your comment. I need to approve them for spam filtering, and the hub was yanked before I can do so. It's now back.

Whether locals joined and/or there are lines waiting to talk to the office has nothing to do with whether the business is legal or not.

Furthermore, doesn't the fact that there's a line indicate that they never hired enough help in the first place? Is that a sign of a nicely run company?

You are welcome to claim that there's a group of distractors for everything, but you failed to actually analyze whether the detractor's message are real, or at least partially real, and which parts. You simply dismiss ALL of them as "negativity", which only proves you have confirmation bias.

Now that a top consultant left and predicted FTC will hit Zeek in 6 months I hope you are as confident as ever, since more and more top MLM people are saying "bad things" about Zeek.


rsblue21 4 years ago

chang- Just a note to say how wonderfully professional you are to all such attacks, both personal and Zeekwise. Your attitude more than anything has stopped at least my girlfriend from trying to get anyone else to join Zeek. Now she is just waiting to get her money out. Thank you.


calculus-geometry profile image

calculus-geometry 4 years ago from Germany

The only way to make money from an MLM/pyramid/Ponzi scheme is to be the one who creates the scheme. Why don't people at the bottom of the pyramid see this?


rsblue21 4 years ago

Have you heard of www.bidambassadors.com? It looks very similar to Zeek, except that it talks about helping children. Are they serious??


SummerSizzler profile image

SummerSizzler 4 years ago from Michigan

You can make a reasonable amount money with MLMs if you're willing to invest quite a bit of your time and money. I've had many friends that have tried to recruit me over the years, and Zeek Rewards was the latest one. As always, I'm very glad I found this useful information. Even if there is money to be made still with Zeek, why would I want to associate with company and it's founders that lack integrity and honesty.


Lynndel "Lynn" Edgington 4 years ago

Something for all you Pro-Zeekers to consider. One of the MLM Industry's most ardent supporters, if not "the most ardent supporter" of MLM's is Rod Cook of MLMWatchdog.com.

He has had Zeek on his Warning List since February. If he thought for one minute this was a legitimate MLM, he would not have it on his Warning List, but would be telling everyone to join.

This fact alone should tell you that there are major Red Flags flying on Zeek. Adding insult to injury he also exposes that Zeek's charity is not legal the way it is being funded.

Don't take my word for it. Go to Rod's website and read it for youself.


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