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10 Stupid Arguments People Make for Outdoor Cat Roaming

Updated on March 8, 2017
Source

Disclaimer

It is perfectly possible to love cats without creating ridiculous arguments for cats roaming at large.

Many cat lovers actually feel that confinement promotes the cat’s welfare as the outdoors hosts many dangers for them. But even if you think that freedom outweighs these risks, if you ignore the impact that allowing pets to roam has environmentally and morally, you’ve gone beyond loving cats and entered the territory of delusionally obsessing over them to the point that you will undermine our society. Essentially, cat whacks are those that only care about cats and nothing else.

You might be a cat crazy if you:

  • Allow or support pet cats roaming outdoors
  • Find their torturing of small animals cute or funny.
  • Become angry that a dog or coyote has killed a cat.
  • Hold up photos of your cats when they disappear as to imply it is the fault of others.
  • In the event of a cat attack you always blame the victim ("they kicked snow at the cat, they looked at it provocatively, ect.).
  • Find the term 'animal welfare' to mean cat welfare because no other animal matters to you.
  • Become irritated with people who do not want your cat on their property.
  • If you have ever said "dogs have owners, cats have servants" or any variation.
  • Make any of the arguments in this article.

Cat crazies only care about cats

1. Cats are wild animals

Pet cats are not wild animals in any shape or form. Period.

  • No animal, domesticated or not, is truly ‘wild’ if it has been raised as a pet.
  • No animal, wild OR domesticated, should ever be introduced to an environment it is not native to.
  • Some cats are feral, which technically means ‘wild and domesticated’. So while domesticated animals can become 'wild', this provides an argument for their free-roaming about as much as it does for lions and tigers in zoos.

Ironically, since people believe cats are ‘wild animals’, that is just another excellent reason why exotic pet owners should not be stripped of their freedoms, as that would make cat owners exotic pet owners, and their animals are already ridiculously destructive (if not more so than most exotic pets) yet cat owners enjoy acceptance everywhere.

The concept of domestication is difficult to define given the enormous variation of animals bred under human influence, many lacking significant distinction from their wild ancestors. So the fact that a debate exists as to whether or not cats are ‘wild’ reveals holes in the argument that so-called wild animals should be treated differently and be made illegal as pets to the public.

A Serval Hisses
A Serval Hisses | Source

2. They’re just doing what cats do. That’s nature!

Nature is cruel and not something anyone should be seeking to replicate.

Morally-challenged cat lovers have decided that the circle of life is the reason it is OK for pet cats to predate (read: torture) numerous small animals even while their caloric requirements are satisfied by the livestock animals in cat food, yet it is typically never OK for cats to die for the same exact reason.

Cats are essentially awarded ‘human status’ in the eyes of cat nuts because, like humans, the ‘circle of life’ is not allowed to touch them. This particular brand of cat-loving troll is perhaps the most insidious and perplexing.

When dogs kill cats, even though this comes completely natural to them, there is often outrage. Cat whacks demand that the dog owner is brought to justice and their dog muzzled and confined, perhaps even killed. Cat whacks will scoff at a neighbor that complains their roaming cats are harassing their caged birds or any other small animal they might happen to keep on their property.

You might be a cat nutter if...

You find this picture cute or funny.
You find this picture cute or funny. | Source

Cat nutter logic

3. Cats control rats, mice, and snakes

All invasive species are undesirable.

There is only one possible benefit of free-roaming cats; amongst their pile of dead and dying victims a there might be some species that are just as invasive as they are. Big deal. Cats kill indiscriminately and are not magically seeking out the species humans happen to find undesirable. Some cats might specialize in killing creatures humans don't like, but that is not an excuse for keeping cats outside overall, and even less so when these 'undesirable' species are actually native species.

Not all rodents and reptiles are non-native, and native snakes, regardless of how people feel about them, are beneficial predators and have important roles in the ecosystem, one of those roles being rodent control!

Fighting fire with more fire is absurd, and 10 dead house sparrows does not negate one dead golden finch.

When a cat nutter proudly tells you their pet is killing snakes, they are actually just celebrating the destruction of native wildlife at the claws of their animal that doesn’t belong there, which is particularly reprehensible.

Well, wildlife kills birds too!

The snake is NATIVE WILDLIFE. The cat is NOT.

Yes, the snake was killed and the cat whack snapped a photo.
Yes, the snake was killed and the cat whack snapped a photo. | Source

4. There is no evidence cats endanger species

Privileged cats enjoy the burden of proof while blatantly killing in front of us.

"Alan asked “Is the cat the most dangerous destroyer of birds” and Roger replied no, we are the most dangerous animal. Roger said that he is both a naturalist and cat specialist. Roger pointed out that in the US positions over cats and wildlife are much more polarized than in the UK, where the real test is not numbers caught but whether cats are affecting species survival."

A 'cat specialist' OKs killing birds because he thinks the species isn't affected as a whole.

When a cat gets killed by a dog or even a coyote, why do free-roaming supporters not make this same statement?

While it is agreed upon that removing any and all invasive species (if possible) such as Burmese pythons, lion fish, and kudzu is a desirable action, cats are the only animal that researchers need to definitively prove are impacting the native species in question otherwise, as a cat nutter will tell you, they should be left alone.

Q. Are invasive species bad for the environment?

A. Yes.

Q. Should cats be removed and banned from being outdoors?

A. There is no evidence they are harming anything.

There are laws put in place that make killing or harassing many native U.S. species punishable by law. This is just another reason that letting cats roam and kill is an acceptable form of poaching.

Even without evidence for species decline in Great Britain, ethical people feel that animals should not be killed for entertainment purposes, and this is essentially what happens with cats that have an abundance of food. Just ask the cat lover to envision that the pesky chipmunk being disemboweled alive is a kitten being mauled by a dog, and they can perhaps see that perspective. All of the sudden, the ‘circle of life’ and the fact that there is no evidence (nor will there ever be) that cats will go extinct as a result becomes irrelevant.

By default, the introduction or acceptance of non-native predators in the ecosystem must always be held to the highest scrutiny. We should not wait for catastrophic results to the already compromised ecosystem to take action.

5. Stop the killing/ this study will make people kill cats!

Cat 'advocates' object to science if it threatens outdoor cats.

"Yet an overwhelming majority of Americans believe it is more humane to leave a cat outside than to have her caught and killed, according to a 2007 study conducted by Harris Interactive for Alley Cat Allies."

From the website of Alley Cat Allies, the wackiest of the cat whacks, appeal to majority logic is used no matter how asinine the conclusion. According to their survey, tossing cats outdoors to either die early, or NOT die early and kill wildlife, is more humane than humane euthanasia.

Cat advocates suffer every time an independent study tells them what they won’t to hear, and they spin every logical fallacy at their disposal to try and suppress it.

  • The Wisconsin Study: Bad Science Costs Cats’ Lives
  • Breaking Down the Bogus Smithsonian Catbird Study
  • "Americans are angry that an institution receiving taxpayer money would fund a study that declares war on a beloved companion animal"

It can be objectively stated that regardless of whatever the truth out there might be, you will never get anything other than opposition against any study that paints free-roaming cats in a negative light. Organizations like Alley Cat Allies do not even advocate keeping pet cats indoors, which does NOT cause their deaths. In fact, it does the opposite, it lets cats live longer, and keeps them away from people who might want to shoot them with crossbows.

Source

6. Humans/dogs do more damage

Cats ARE a human impact!

Who said humans aren't destructive? Who said pollution and overdevelopment aren't consequential actions worthy of being regulated? That's right, no one.

In fact, introduction of non-native species is just another anthropogenic environmental impact.

Since cat advocates cry foul over human activities, they should all be perfectly fine with making it illegal to allow cats outdoors as it is for littering, killing or possessing migratory birds (dead or alive), and not picking up after your dog.

Source

7. It is impossible to keep a cat inside

If zoos can keep in chimps, you can keep in a cat.

If you can’t handle keeping a cat indoors, then you should look into a different pet. Those controversial exotic pet owners with truly non-domesticated animals and even wildlife sanctuaries that house actual wild animals all manage to keep their animals confined properly. They would have the book thrown at them otherwise.

So perhaps some of the most baffling claims of cat crazies (and trust me, all are 100% ridiculous) is this idea that people cannot successfully keep cats inside, that they will find their way out eventually or become destructive. This is the battle cry of a bad, lazy and intolerant pet owner that expects a pet to be fully adaptable into their lives instead of having to carry out some basic husbandry like allowing the animal outdoors in a supervised or confined setting, and keeping the cat sufficiently entertained indoors.

Some people with the room also opt to construct catios or tunnels. If you aren’t willing to step up to the plate to deal with a genetically high drive cat, you should either adopt a cat from a shelter with a known history of being a couch potato, or consider a small pet like a ferret that can meet its energy needs indoors.

Source

8. Cats mainly kill wounded and sick animals and not many birds

Some of the prey being injured and sick doesn't justify those which aren't.

This argument runs off the mentality that cats are special and therefore we should consider any possibly that cat predation might not be ‘that bad’. Only in the mind of a person with deluded favoritism does this argument spring forth.

No reasonably intelligent environmentally responsible person tries to create reasons for an invasive species to remain where it doesn’t belong, given the myriad of potential negative impacts, many of which are already known or proven.

Do cats kill mostly small rodents and less birds? Yes. Why is it that these bird deaths do not matter, when even one cat death matters so much? If wildlife was given the same treatment as cats, ONE dead bird or even those shunned small mammals dying per year would be UNACCEPTABLE. And if cats are killing wounded animals, that could have been prey for other native species. The number of cats are at completely unnatural densities, and they do not substitute for extirpated predators.

9. Would you like to be cooped up all day?

All pets, being pets, should be confined.

Would I like to be tortured and killed by a mountain lion? No. A cat whack cannot see their impact beyond cats. They simply cannot. To them, a perceived cat's boredom is more important than a dead wild animal, or even hundreds of them. If killing animals and annoying neighbors is what needs to be done to make kitty optimally happy, then there is no question that there is no choice other than to comply with its 'needs'.

Even the free-roaming rights of dogs are not allowed to interfere with a cat's. Cats, and cats only should be allowed to roam as their instincts are the only ones important enough to warrant free-reign over the land.

Source

10. You just hate cats/stop blaming cats!

Cat nutters must hate wildlife and property rights

At some point in the argument every cat crazy will tell you this. I don’t hate cats, but it wouldn’t matter if I did. This is just an example of ‘poison the well fallacy’ to make you look bad in the face of other cat crazies. Don't trust a cat hater, there is something wrong with people who do not obsess over cats.

Many cat lovers hate dogs, and that doesn’t make them wrong in saying that dogs should not be running loose or defecating without the owner cleaning it up. Numerous cat lovers maintain their sanity and believe in responsible pet care for all pets, including cats. They do not perceive cats as an exception for no reason.

As for placing the blame on a clueless animal, the same way we’re not blaming plastic bags for ending up in the GI tract of wildlife, we’re not blaming cats for what they do, we are just demanding the humans resolve the problems they’ve created.

If a feral cat needs to be euthanized, apologize to it, curse the humans that allowed the problem to get out of control all you wish, but do what needs to be done, and prevent future cats from suffering the same fate.

  • Note: there are also dog, reptile, and horse crazies, but they are not as prolific as cat crazies.

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    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 22 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      I don't think cats or dogs should be kept indoors permanently. We let both in and out any time they wanted. Then in the 60's dog laws became more stringent. We had to tie up the dog when outside or walk the dog on a leash.

      There was a lot of freedoms we had then that are goon now. How bad will it get before people have had enough?

    • DrMark1961 profile image

      Dr Mark 22 months ago from The Beach of Brazil

      Great information here. Unfortunately there will be people like the first commenter who always ignore what they learn and think it is infringing on a cat´s freedom to be kept inside.

      I could really relate to the cartoon about "prove it". One of my neighbors cats climbed into my rabbit pen several times and brutally killed and dismembered two litters of baby rabbits. When I told him to keep his cat confined in the evenings when the baby rabbits were out eating, he told me "It wasn´t my cat! You can´t even prove it--do you have any pictures?"

    • Herban Cowgirl profile image

      Herban Cowgirl 22 months ago from Wyoming, USA

      Well, I think it all depends on where you live, who your neighbors are, and your how you view the world. If you live in town, cats outdoors is probably going to be bad for everyone; urban cat populations are a real problem.

      Working cats are a lot like working dogs IMO. Both are pretty helpful on the farm, and I prefer organic controls when I can use them. Traps don't actively seek out and destroy small varmints (which spread disease and ruin both human and animal food storage), and they don't cause any less pain. If you've ever watch an animal die from mouse poison, then you know why I don't have it on my place. I do believe every domestic animal not being used in a responsible breeding program should be fixed and fully vaccinated.

      Between good fences, watch dogs, and mousers, my place is quite safe from predators that would harm cats and almost completely free of varmints--no poison, no traps. I compost their waste and use it for ornamental plants in my yard. Mother nature may be a ruthless mistress, but if you learn to work in harmony with her it's not senseless violence.

    • poetryman6969 profile image

      poetryman6969 22 months ago

      I am much more annoyed at uncontrolled dogs than cats.

      Whenever I see that old saying that the more a person knows of a humans the more they like dogs, I am reminded that no human ever pooped on my front lawn.

    • profile image

      notnr 22 months ago

      There is nothing environmentally friendly about cats as rodent control. They are as indiscriminate as poison. Cats are just as destructive on the farm as they are in urban areas. Cats kill non-target beneficial insect eating species. They kill snakes. They take food that the native predators depend on to survive. Cats are the definitive host of toxoplasma gondii. Cats don't belong around food producing animals or fields. The "varmints" that cats torture, kill, and sometimes eat are the source of infection of diseases and parasites that cats carry. Toxoplasmois, leptospirosis, campylobacter, bartonella, cryptosporidosis, plague, rabies, ringworm, toxocara, and salmonella to name just a few.

    • Herban Cowgirl profile image

      Herban Cowgirl 22 months ago from Wyoming, USA

      Do you know how very low infection rates of everything on your list are? Even salmonella, which is the most common infection you mention only affects about 1.2 Million people a year or than 1% of the population--most of that comes from second rate produce sold in supermarkets & restaurants. The rest of the diseases you mention are even smaller, in some cases you'd be more likely to win the lottery or be struck by lightening.

      Properly composted cat and dog waste should not be near plants or watersheds intended for food (duh), but when properly composted in a very high heat bin kills 98% of the nasties in it. Obviously, you don't mix it in with the rest of the compost. While it still has a very high ammonia content, it's perfectly fine for several types of ornamental shrubs (which is a million times better than the untold tons of clay cat litter being put in landfills every year).

      The morality of predators and prey doesn't keep me up at night. Life and death on the farm are part of the process. Away from the house in the pastures and fields, I've helped encourage habitat for hawks, owls, and bobcats; all amazing predators doing the same thing the cats do on a much larger scale.

      I don't really mind that you disagree with me, that is your right and you've been very polite about it. What does bother me is when we start trying to force our ideals on others, which is where this is going right? The intent here is to raise awareness and the get people to "Demand something be done about it." Abuse and neglect are wrong, letting domestic animals loose without boundaries is wrong, and we already have effective laws for dealing with those issues. More laws about how and where you can keep/employ cats (or any domestic animal) infringes on our rights as a property owners, and it will have a negligible effect the feral cat population in rural areas. Urban and Suburban areas are a different story, but none of my business (that would be forcing my ideals on them).

    • Melissa A Smith profile image
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      Melissa A Smith 22 months ago from New York

      Dr. Mark, how awful. Definitely a 'cat crazy' you have to deal with, I'm sorry.

    • Melissa A Smith profile image
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      Melissa A Smith 22 months ago from New York

      poetryman6969-- Luckily uncontrolled dogs are less common and easy to enforce action against.

    • Melissa A Smith profile image
      Author

      Melissa A Smith 22 months ago from New York

      Herban Cowgirl-- If the cats stay on your property, that's your right. Even if the cats hunt on it. The article is about people who let their cats go wherever they want. And, about 60 million people are said to be infected with T.gondii in the U.S., not what I consider a low infection rate. I wouldn't want any unnecessary vectors of the disease roaming around my pregnant livestock.

    • Herban Cowgirl profile image

      Herban Cowgirl 22 months ago from Wyoming, USA

      30 years and 15,000 calves; never been a problem.

    • Melissa A Smith profile image
      Author

      Melissa A Smith 22 months ago from New York

      I know next to nothing about cows but, that doesn't sound statistically possible. A researcher needs to come study your farm.

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 22 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      I go along with Herban Cowgirl. Enough with the laws and forcing people to loose more freedoms. Trump got property by forcing current eminent domain laws. There are two 1880's old Brownstones in among a huge building project. Rockefeller could not buy them because the owners refused to sell. You can see where things are going.

    • profile image

      Kyle 22 months ago

      I'm with you, Doug. I miss the good old days when we didn't have to think about the consequences of our actions...

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 22 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      Kyle: Most did think about not hurting people and animals. The consequences of today were not a problem back before the 70's as they have become recently.

    • profile image

      Woodsman001 22 months ago

      Herban Cowgirl,

      Here's a good read to show you what happens to every last one of these relocated invasive-species disease-infested vermin feral-cats that people dump-off on farms and in other rural areas in ANY location of North America. (And, as I recently discovered; in Canada, the UK, and probably worldwide -- they'd be fools not to.)

      http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthr...

      All you are doing is adding to the cat-shooting quotas of everyone who lives rural. What a nice waste of your money and time. I personally shot and buried literally hundreds of these invasive-species vermin cats to stop them from gutting-alive and skinning-alive the last of the native wildlife on my lands. Cats that pavement-brained fools adopted-out from "humane" barn-cat programs. Many hunting-forums even pass along contact information of any new "barn cat programs" -- for free delivery of FREE practice-targets between hunting seasons. I don't condone this, because if they miss then I have to shoot them myself when they wander into my own lands. "Hello? Yes, I have a bad rodent problem out here in the country. Can you bring out about 6 of your cats? Thanks!" (A week later: BANG! BANG! Dāmņ, missed one. BANG! BANG! BANG!) Your cats are "valuable", alright. But not in any way that you might ever think.

      Cats that are relocated NEVER stay where they have been dumped. This is why you read reports of cats trying to get back to their points of origin hundreds of miles away. All the while senselessly destroying countless numbers of valuable native wildlife in their wake by torturing animals to death for their hourly play-toys. People in rural areas have enough of their own problem keeping these disease-infested vermin in check by shooting every stray cat they see (if only to protect their own animals and cats from the 3dozen+ deadly zoonotic diseases these free-roaming pestilent vermin cats carry).

      You needn't go adding to everyone's weekly cat-shooting-quotas by releasing more of these pestilent vermin. "Cute" they are not. They ALL need to be destroyed. There are dozens of native predator species that are MUCH better suited for rodent control. Ones that eat rodents only and don't destroy everything that moves, like cats do. There's a good reason one species was even named the Barn-Owl, another the Rat-Snake. Gray-Fox being another excellent mouser, they don't even have European fowl on their menus and will even climb trees to keep squirrel populations in check. Even the 1.75-inch Masked-Shrew, a David & Goliath success story, evolved a poisonous bite specifically for preying on rodents right where they breed. Even the scent of these miniature marvels being around drives away rodents. But what do their cats do? They destroy these most beneficial of all rodent predators the very first chance they get.

      Cat-lickers (criminally irresponsible cat-hoarders) need to become responsible stewards of this planet by getting at least a high-school level of education in matters of ecology and biology so the rest of us don't have to teach you a valuable lesson by shooting and burying every last one of your invasive species vermin cats for you.

      You might also enjoy knowing ...

      If people advocate for cats as rodent-control on farms and ranches they've already doomed them to being destroyed by drowning or shooting when it becomes a financial liability more than any asset. Ranchers and farmers worldwide are fully aware that cats' Toxoplasma gondii parasite can cause the very same birth defects (hydrocephaly and microcephaly), still-births, and miscarriages in their livestock and important wildlife as it can in pregnant women. Consequently, this is also how this cats' brain-parasite gets into your meats and onto your dinner-tables, from herbivores ingesting this cat-parasites' oocysts in the soils, transferred to the plants and grains that they eat. Herbivores can contract this parasite in NO OTHER WAY. Not even washing your hands in bleach nor hydrochloric-acid will destroy this parasites' oocysts if you have contracted it from your garden or yard that a cat has defecated in.

      This is why any cats are ROUTINELY destroyed around gestating livestock and wildlife-management areas in the most efficient, humane, and least-expensive method available. Common rural practice everywhere. The risk of financial loss from dead livestock and important native wildlife from an invasive-species cat is far too great to do otherwise. This cats' parasite is now even killing off rare marine-mammals (dolphins, seals, otters, and even rare whales) along all coastal regions around the world from run-off containing this cat-parasites' oocysts. Letting your vermin cats roam free is absolutely no better and just as criminal and morally reprehensible as throwing indiscriminate rat-poison around on everyone's property, and indeed the whole planet.

      Children on farms and ranches also learn how to be a good steward of their lands when it comes to invasive domesticated species like cats, with one simple statement from the ecologically responsible parents (those who are directly dependent upon the very lands on which they live, including yourselves), "If you see a cat more'n 100 yards from any building, shoot it! It's up to no good." They don't bother with expensive spaying and neutering cats, that's too time consuming and costly for a work-cat that's not doing its proper job. That's how animals are "domesticated" in the very first place; keep-alive that which benefits humans, destroy the genetic lines of that which does not. The very same way that you got your vermin man-made cats in the very first place.

      The next time cat-lickers bite into that whole-grain veggie-muffin or McBurger, they need to just envision biting down on a shot-dead or drowned kitten or cat. For that's precisely how that food supply got to their mouths -- whether they want to face up to it or not.

      If you want to blame someone for the drowning and shooting of cats, you need to prosecute yourselves -- every time you eat. Enjoy your next meal! At least 1 cat paid for it with its life.

      If your cat so much as touches one paw on my property, I guarantee you that I have the legal right no matter where I live to destroy your trespassing vermin cat for you. How many animals of yours are going to have to permanently disappear before you finally learn your much-deserved lesson in how to be a responsible pet-owner and a respectable neighbor and human? 12? 15? (those being the average disappeared cats per cat-licker before they even begin to learn their much-deserved lesson at long-last) 200? The ones by me who were adopting cats from "barn cat programs" were uniquely cretinized and lobotomized. I had to shoot and bury many hundreds of their cats to stop them from gutting-alive and skinning-alive the last of the native wildlife on my lands before they even started to learn.

      Love 'em or lose 'em!

      Bottom line: If you don't want to take care of your cat in the manner that YOU see fit, then I guarantee you that I WILL take care of your cat in the manner that I see fit -- ONE TIME. And it only takes one time. See one, shoot one, A.S.A.P. Simple as that.

      YOUR CHOICE!

      If your free-roaming cat gets hurt or dies, NO MATTER HOW YOUR STRAY CAT GETS HURT OR DIES, that's ***YOUR*** FAULT. Make NO mistake about that. And you can be charged with all laws that clearly define animal-neglect, animal-abandonment, and animal-endangerment -- not to mention every last national and international invasive-species law and environmental-protection-act on earth.

      Do you actually love your vermin? Or are you just using it as a highly expendable animal-sacrifice to manipulate everyone in your life? I guess we'll find out when your piece-of-shîť vermin never comes home.

      PSA: The time is now .... Half-Past Kill-Kitty O'Clock .... do you know where your piece-of-shîť , disease-infested, invasive species, ecological disaster, vermin cat is? If not, grab a shovel and I'll show you where its new "loving furever-home" is now.

    • profile image

      Woodsman001 22 months ago

      poetryman6969 (what lofty poetry you must write with a name like that LOL),

      It is mandatory by law in nearly every, if not every, state of the USA to shoot any dog on sight that is seen harassing wildlife. This is why feral dog-packs are a rarity in most areas. They are SHOT before things get that bad. I keep a paintball-gun loaded with red-pellets for any stray dogs. Stings enough to teach a teachable dog, and leaves a nice signal on their coat. The first time they get the paintball gun (and MAYBE a 2nd time too if they seem to be a well-mannered dog). If that doesn't teach the owner and alert them to what could have REALLY happened to their dog, then sadly nobody is learning anything -- so out comes the rifle next time their dog is seen chasing wildlife.

      Cats aren't so easily forgiven, because from past experience I know that warning a cat-licker makes absolutely no difference whatsoever (as anyone knows who has ever tried to deal with any of them). I and the sheriff tried that failed method of trying to reason-with cat-lickers for over 15 years while their cats annihilated all the native wildlife on my lands -- from smallest of prey up to the top predators that cats had starved to death by turning all their foods into tortured-to-death play-toys for their cats. And if the native animals were not starved out or killed directly, then all their offspring that were forced to starve-to-death when the parents no longer returned to feed their offspring.

      Cat-owners really could care less about their outdoor cats (or any animals, or any other life on earth for that matter, they would even rather that all humans died than their vermin cats -- i.e. pure sociopaths) and they don't really care how ANY of their cats die. So out comes the rifle on the first sighting of a cat instead of the paintball-gun. They don't care how their cat is going to die, so why on earth should anyone else? Nobody has the time to put up with a cat-licker's BS, nonsense, deceptions, and lies. I most certainly learned that the hard way. (At the cost of countless thousands and thousands of native animals on my lands that their vermin invasive-species cats gutted-alive and skinned-alive, tortured to death for cats' play-toys, over a 2-decade cat-pestilence.)

      People who actually care about their animals keep them confined and supervised, or they lose them -- permanently. You can tell who actually loves their animals because their animals are still alive. If you treat your animal as an expendable thing then so will everyone else. Again you have nobody but yourselves to blame for the deaths of any of your domesticated animals that you let roam free.

    • profile image

      Woodsman001 22 months ago

      Here's how you can also make any cat-licking, facts-twisting, propaganda-spewing fool reveal just how absurd, hypocritical, ignorant, stupid, and ludicrous ALL their beliefs are; all with just ONE simple question. Ask them:

      "If you believe that these man-made (through selective-breeding), environment destroying, deadly-disease infested, pestilent, invasive-species vermin cats are a natural part of the environment and belong out in nature; then why are you even bothering to sterilize them?"

      Blatantly ignorant hypocrite much?

      Your agreement to sterilize them is your very agreement that they don't even belong there in the very first place. Is this too difficult for you to comprehend? Is your 3rd-grade bible-home-schooling, replete with your bambi-cartoon-sing-along curricula, now failing you? Must be.

    • profile image

      Woodsman001 22 months ago

      Herban Cowgirl,

      The myth about cats being good rodent control has been disproved on every island where cats were imported to take care of the imported rodents. Hundreds of years later and there's nothing but a thriving population of cats and rodents -- all the native wildlife on those islands now either extinct or on the brink of extinction -- even those native species which are better rodent predators than cats (such as many reptiles and shrews which destroy rodents right in their nests), the cats having destroyed them directly or indirectly.

      The rodents reproduce in burrows and holes out of the reach of cats, where they are happy to reproduce forever to entertain cats the rest of their lives, and make your own lives miserable, on into infinity. On top of that, when cats infect rodents with cat's Toxoplasma gondii parasite, this hijacks the minds of rodents to make the rodents attracted to where cats urinate. http://scitizen.com/neuroscience/parasite-hijacks-...

      Cats actually attract disease-carrying rodents to where cats are. The cats then contract these diseases on contact with, or being in proximity to, these rodents. Like "The Black Death", the plague, that is now being transmitted to humans in N. America directly from cats that have contracted it from rodents. Yes, "The Black Death" (the plague) is alive and well today and being spread by people's cats this time around. Totally disproving that oft-spewed LIE about having more cats in Europe could have prevented the plague -- more cats would have made it far far worse. Many people have already died from cat-transmitted plague in the USA in the last 2-3 decades; all three forms of it transmitted by CATS -- septicemic, bubonic, and pneumonic. For a fun read, one of hundreds of cases, Cat-Transmitted Fatal Pneumonic Plague -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8059908

      http://www.abcd-vets.org/Guidelines/Pages/EN-Other...

      "Recommendations to avoid zoonotic transmission: Cats are considered the most important domestic animal involved in plague transmission to humans, and in endemic areas, outdoor cats may transmit the infection to their owners or to persons caring for sick cats (veterinarians and veterinary nurses)."

      Cats attracting these adult rodents right to them further increasing the cat/rodent/disease density of this happy predator/prey balance. It has been documented many many times. The more cats you have the more rodents and diseases you get. I even proved this to myself when having to rid my lands of hundreds of these vermin cats by shooting and burying every last one of them. A rodent problem started to appear about the same time the cats started to show up, 15 years of it. And, if you check the history of Disney's feral cat problem, their rodent problem also started to appear at the very same time their cats showed-up. Coincidence? Not at all. (BTW: All cat-lickers' beloved Disney's TNR cats are no more, they've all been destroyed by hired exterminators this year. LOL) All rodent problems around my home completely disappeared after every last cat was shot-dead and safely disposed of. All the better NATIVE rodent predators moved back into the area after the cats were dead and gone. Not seen one cat anywhere nor had even one rodent in the house in over five years now. (So much for their manipulative, deceptive, and outright lie of the mythical "vacuum effect" too.)

      Cats DO NOT get rid of rodents. I don't care how many centuries that people will claim that cats keep rodents in-check, they'll still be wrong all these centuries. Civilizations of humans have come and gone in great cities like Egypt, yet their cats and rodents remain in even greater pestilent numbers.

      No cat population anywhere has ever been able to control rodents effectively, in fact cats only attract a rodent problem. But native predators can get rid of rodents -- easily.

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      Kyle 22 months ago

      Doug: Might it be that the problems today are, at least in part, due to the way we lived in the 1970s? Best case scenario there just weren't as many people or opportunities to harm the environment back then as there are today. It's simply not possible to continue living the way we did before or are today.

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      Doug Cutler 22 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      Woodsman: Were these inhabited islands? Where the only food was the wildlife? That was a dumb a..s.d idea to start with. When I was growing up in a city there were big rats everywhere. Until we got a family cat. Took care of the problem. We also fed the cat regularly, mostly table scraps. You have to take care of any animals you bring in. Not just throw them out to do one job. Sounds like you know a lot of stupid people. I avoid cat and animal haters like they are the bubonic plague!

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      Woodsman001 22 months ago

      Doug Cutler, got a mirror handy? People who advocate to let these invasive-species vermin cats roam free ARE animal haters (in fact they hate every last living thing, including themselves and all other humans (pure sociopaths)). They even hate the cats that they claim to love. (What were you saying about my knowing a lot of stupid people? I just found another one! People like you are everywhere.)

      Throw some more of your 100% expandable garbage-cats under the wheels of cars or let them lap-up antifreeze in a gutter or let them roam where they will be shot to death, then tell us all again how much that "you love cats". Let your invasive-species vermin cats torture or starve thousands of native and more-valuable admirable animals and all their offspring to death just for your and your cats' senseless play-toy entertainment, no other reason, then tell us all again how much of an "animal lover" that you truly are.

      If those aren't mentally-ill disconnects from reality then there are no other, nor better, examples of it anywhere in the known universe. Blame cats' Toxoplasma gondii parasites in your brain for permanently hijacking your ability to reason and think like a sensible human anymore, then at least you'll have some real excuse.

      If you truly care about the well-being of animals, then destroying free-roaming cats is the most humane thing to do of all options available (even for the cats themselves). Destroy any one invasive species cat = save the lives of thousands of native animals. Saving them from being tortured to death by being disemboweled-alive or skinned-alive and left to suffer to death, or their offspring left to starve to death after the parents are killed or after cats have destroyed all of their ONLY food-sources -- and all done to NATIVE animals that actually belong here by just ONE cat.

      That's the true suffering-animal-equation. If you want to end the slow torturous deaths of thousands of animals, INCLUDING the slow torturous deaths of cats (by your self-deceptive "loving and humane TNR attrition"), you must begin with destroying any one free-roaming cat, no matter how you have-to accomplish that.

      I saved countless THOUSANDS of animals from suffering to death, and the guaranteed continuation of thousands of beneficial and admirable animal species to live healthy and full lives, animals upon which our very own lives depend. (Some native predators that I even hand-raised from certain demise. The few remaining native predators on my lands that hadn't already been starved to death by an infestation of cats.) It's called "being a responsible steward of the land". Time to grow-up into a responsible adult with a spine and a real heart and get away from your bambi-cartoon curricula and pavement-brained ignorance.

      All NATIVE wildlife on my lands is now returning to normal, it rebounded faster than I could have ever hoped for. I estimate about 1 returning or 1 never-seen-before native species arrived on my land PER DAY for 5 years since every last cat is gone. That's a LOT of species that cats destroyed or starved to death during their 15 years here. Nature is once again back in balance, as it was, and as it should be. Native predators are no longer starving to death due to cats destroying their only food sources. No countless thousands of prey-specie animals being tortured to death for disemboweled and skinned-alive twitching play-toys for vermin cats. No longer are these invasive species cats spreading their 3dozen+ deadly zoonotic diseases to all animals and humans. AND I no longer have any rodent problem (a problem that showed-up around the same time the cats started to show up -- read http://scitizen.vom/neuroscience/parasite-hijacks-... ). Owls returned, as did the hawks, fox, raccoons, shrikes, and opossum and other NATIVE predators that get rid of rodents the RIGHT WAY, without attracting more rodents with cats' T. gondii brain-hijacking parasite. The most valuable of all are the tiny 1.75-inch Masked Shrew, which evolved a poisonous bite specifically for preying on rodents at their very source, in the burrows right where rodents breed. Even the scent of them being around your home drives-away rodents. Cats ALWAYS destroy these tiny David vs. Goliath marvels first, thus ensuring an endless supply of disease-carrying rodents to entertain your diseased cats and your own stupid lives on into infinity.

      I get to hear owls hooting again every night, a sound I had not heard for 15 years because cats had destroyed all their visible/attainable food sources. One so tame it sits on a branch about 10 ft. from my door. It caught a vole I had disturbed one time while I was walking through my yard, the owl landing nearly between my feet to capture the vole. It just looking straight-up at me all proud about its catch. I had to step over that owl to let it continue on in its proud moment. (I named it "Who", so I can do my own truncated comedy-routine when a visitor asks what that owl is doing right there. "Who?" :-) ) Hawks soar over my trees again. Chipmunks treat me to a chipmunk-chorus most every calm summer evening again, another sound I had not heard for 15 years. (Ever hear that sound? It sounds like a melodic wooden wind-chime coming from every direction in the forest as they call to each other, each clucking with their own unique note of their chorus before bedding-down. It's an astounding experience to hear it just once in your life but I get to hear it most every calm warm day before sunset, sometimes in calm late mornings too before they take their noon nap.) A family of Gray Fox (one of the most beneficial native animals to grace our lands) made a den near my home. I often see them bringing a clownish kit or two along with to patrol my yard for any edibles. Birds I had never seen in my life before now nest here. 2 of the species are warblers listed in the top-10-songbirds of the world. What an amazing sound to awaken to during warm months. I wasn't a birder before but these amazing animals are now convincing me otherwise.

      The lifelong rewards for destroying and disposing of every last one of these pestilent invasive-species vermin cats on your lands are priceless and immeasurable.

      I now feel nothing but pity for anyone who has cats around them. They have made their own lives and the lives of all others around them dismally ignorant, bereft, and as empty as their own -- and they don't even realize it. (Doug Cutler now providing a PERFECT example of just that! :-) )

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 22 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      How deep do you bury dead cats and other? I live on a busy road and have animals dead in my yard at times.

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      ManNewt 22 months ago

      Where do you find these ms paint comics? They really added a pinch of humour to the post.

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 22 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      ManNewt:

      What do you mean by ms??? Mad scientist, micro soft, .....? It could mean one of over 200 things when I checked on line.

    • Melissa A Smith profile image
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      Melissa A Smith 22 months ago from New York

      ManNewt -- I drew those, they are NOT good lol. But that adds to the humor.

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      Woodsman001 22 months ago

      Melissa, no disrespect at all meant toward your rudimentary artistic skills; but I must say that you inadvertently provided the NEAR PERFECT artistic representation of their kindergartner's temper-tantrum excuses on why they do and say what they do. I don't think anyone could have captured their mentally-challenged state, their lack of values, their childish level of emotional development, and being as naive and self-serving as a 3 or 4 year-old any better than you did in your cartoons.

      If I was speaking as an art-critic, your representation of their arguments are just as well honed and developed as their ability to reason and think -- a near-perfect reflection.

      If awards were being handed-out for the arts you'd surely win a top-prize for capturing the mind of the cat-licker so completely in those rudimentary scribbles. Take solace in that many famous artists are famous today from their minimalistic childlike "scribbles" and their ability to holistically capture the intent and message so clearly for all.

      I hope that compliment comes across the way it was meant. (But don't run with it too far. They are, after-all, just really good "scribbles". :-) )

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      Woodsman001 22 months ago

      p.s. I wouldn't mind seeing what other cartoons you could come up with for their other excuses and arguments. People might even start using them as quick-to-post memes on other discussions when trying to argue with them. :-) (might want to put a little art-sig in the corner of them, in case they do)

      (It won't shut them up though. The only reason they use their cats as expendable animal-sacrifices in the first place is to manipulate everyone for attention from other humans -- attention they crave but can get no other way throughout their whole lives, that's why they only have cats now. But at least it might limit what kind of and how much attention they get in using their cats this way. :-) )

    • Melissa A Smith profile image
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      Melissa A Smith 22 months ago from New York

      Woodsman001-- Lol thank you, yes they are intentionally crude, that way I don't have to waste time trying to make them 'perfect' and I think the silly way they are drawn compliments the message. I thought it would be more fun than posting more HQ photos of cats, and the ones I found of them killing made me too mad (there were also some terrible ones of road kill I spared people). Why look for pictures when you can create an amusing cartoon? And yes, if anyone wants to 'meme' them I am OK with that, I don't really care about credit, I just want to get the message out there.

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      AP 22 months ago

      I just ran across an article about a cat that killed 102 New Zealand lesser short-tailed bats, many of them for fun, in a single week. These are the only bats which forage on the ground, which makes them both fascinating and wicked easy prey. They're endangered and their relatives, the New Zealand greater short-tailed bats are likely extinct. (The greater short-tails also foraged on the ground, though they primarily ate fruit and carrion rather than insects.)

      The things that struck me was both how many were killed, and that a good many were uneaten. Even when cats kill for food, they still kill for fun. But it appears that even in New Zealand, which has some of the strictest conservation measures in the world, and for good reason, the cat lovers many to keep anything from being done about feral felines until it's too late.

      Any rate, fuel for your next anti-outdoor-cat article:

      http://www.doc.govt.nz/news/media-releases/2010/ca...

      Also, here's the article that first told me about these bats:

      http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2007/04/18...

      They also appeared in David Attenborough's /The Life of Mammals/. They're really neat critters, and I'd say each one is worth the lives of at least a hundred domestic housecats, rather the other way around.

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 22 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      Walruses kill seals for sport. Are you going to kill all of them off too?

      Have you ever read in the bible about taking care of domestic animals?

      I leave God to judge your sick acts and thoughts.

    • Melissa A Smith profile image
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      Melissa A Smith 22 months ago from New York

      "Walruses kill seals for sport."

      No, they don't, but who cares, they are not a non-native introduced species. You don't seem to understand basic logic.

    • Melissa A Smith profile image
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      Melissa A Smith 22 months ago from New York

      Thanks AP.

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      ManNewt 22 months ago

      Well Mr. Doug, you do understand that we cannot restrict the actions of a HUGE WILD hormone-filled walrus unlike the way we can restrict a SMALL DOMESTIC house cat. Do you ?

    • IBrakeForBirds profile image

      IBrakeForBirds 22 months ago

      Free-roaming domestic house-cats are not part of "nature" or the "circle of life". They are not "natural" or "God's creation". House-cats were developed from African wildcats by man around 10,000 years ago, much in the same way that we started with wolves and now have dachshunds and schnauzers. House-cats were brought to North America a mere 600 years ago. They have no ecological niche in the environment anywhere in North America or the Western Hemisphere. Native birds and animals evolved here together over MILLIONS of years, predator and prey, without the domestic house-cat. Native predators such as hawks, owls, bobcats, mink, etc do kill birds. We accept that because they are native and they belong in the environment here. Those native creatures ARE part of the cycle of life and nature. House-cats, whether they are pets, strays, or ferals do not belong in the environment here. They need to be contained or removed.

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      Woodsman001 21 months ago

      Doug Cutler (You're nothing but a troll, but I'll still play along to amuse you for your desperate need for attention in life. That's why only cats are in your life today, and in fact, is the only reason you have cats, to manipulate other humans for attention with them. Nothing else can stand to be around, and even your cats are a captive audience that hope to escape from you one day. Sad, isn't it.)

      Your lame & psychotic god of the insane middle-east cultures had nothing to do with your vermin cats being here. The species that is the house-cat was CREATED BY MAN, genetically engineered through selective-breeding (a rudimentary form of genetic-engineering), for man's purposes -- not for your psychotic god's purposes. (aside: I often wonder why Europeans worship the very religion that destroyed their own ancestral Pagan heritage. Pure hypocrites -- all the way back to the very beginning of xtianity and their own spiritual cores.)

      Your cats are no more natural to any environment anywhere on earth than some insect that was created in some lab, that once released out into nature would destroy all of nature -- JUST AS CATS DO.

      Is a sewing-machine, made by man for man's purposes, one of your god's cherished creations too?

      If you believe that these man-made (through selective-breeding), environment destroying, deadly-disease infested, pestilent, invasive-species vermin cats are a natural part of the environment and belong out in nature; then why are you even bothering to sterilize them?

      Blatantly ignorant hypocrite much?

      Your agreement to sterilize them is your very agreement that they don't even belong there in the very first place. Is this too difficult for you to comprehend? Is your 3rd-grade bible-home-schooling, replete with your bambi-cartoon-sing-along curricula, now failing you? Must be.

      If your cats were only destroying invasive species (cats themselves being a noxious invasive species), then nobody would be complaining. But your vermin cats destroy anything that moves. Letting a cat roam free is absolutely no better and NO LESS CRIMINAL AND MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE than intentionally throwing rat-poison around on everyone's property to kill any living thing. Your man-made vermin cats are now driving hundreds if not thousands of species of native animals to EXTINCTION across the whole planet. Have you no conscience nor morality left?

      Shooting and burying an invasive-species vermin cat (as I did to hundreds of these vermin to rid my lands of them and stop them from gutting-alive and skinning-alive the last of the NATIVE wildlife) is of no more concern today than unplugging someone's badly designed sewing-machine that is running out of control and burning down the house. ALL of these man-made cats need to be recalled and destroyed as a dangerous defective man-made product. And then make the production and ownership of them an illegal activity everywhere on earth -- no different than recalling and destroying any other product of humans that have proved to be a drastic destructive mistake. Killing cats is like putting the cap back on a bottle of DDT and then destroying and disposing of it as environmentally-safe as possible.

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 21 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      Woodsman001: You are the troll with your blah, blah, blah. Seeking the attention of the readers. Cats aren't the only animals I keep. And when people visit, the cats usually hide. And I do not mention them, as you say, to get attention. You ass-ume way way too much.

      A previous post by IBrakeForBirds 9 days ago, mention dachshunds and schnauzers started with wolves. Do you also want to eradicate all of those? How about mules, cross breed of a horse and donkey? Lets kill all of them too! Soon, if not already, you may be wanting to kill all the people that are offspring from the mixing of the races. I will pray for you.

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      Woodsman001 21 months ago

      Doug Cutler (the troll), for starters; NO domesticated animals created from cross-breeding practices are allowed to roam free -- BY LAW. Any that escape from supervised containment, if the owner cannot be found within a reasonable amount of time (and charged with criminal animal-neglect) to have that animal returned to them, or find someone else that wants that animal and keep it within the confines of THE LAW, then that animal is destroyed -- BY LAW. Cats are NOT exempt from this practice that applies to *EVERY* DOMESTICATED ANIMAL SPECIES ON EARTH.

      You also just revealed that you don't even have so much as a Freshman's high-school level of education in matters of ecology and biology! THANKS!

      Here's my standard-issue prepared reply for bible-home-schooled cretins just like you:

      Humans ARE NOT an invasive species ANYWHERE -- classified as a "weedy" species, yes; an "invasive" species, NEVER. Since humans have the genetic code to give them the capability to travel/migrate to ANY part of the globe, this means they are native to any area they have migrated to on their own. Just like birds that have this capability and can travel to different continents and islands. Those that have the flight-range required to do so are NATIVE to those areas that they are capable of traveling to ON THEIR OWN.

      (And for the love of all that's good in the world, PLEASE don't display your further ignorance and stupidity by trying to claim that Europeans, Native Americans, Africans, Aboriginals, and Asians are different "species". That's usually your next huge omelet-on-the-face move that you astoundingly ignorant fools make.) (edit: OOOPS! You already did! Like that's any surprise. Is anyone else surprised? I'm not.) Aside: I actually leave those last "edit" lines in now. It's so much easier to delete them on rare occasions than to add them back in for how many times they've claimed races of humans are the same as different species.)

      Whereas, an animal genetically engineered through selective-breeding (a rudimentary form of genetic-engineering), such as CATS, are NOT AN INDIGENOUS SPECIES ANYWHERE on ANY continent. They are no more natural to any native environment anywhere on earth than some insect that was invented by humans in some lab, that once released out into nature will destroy all native wildlife, JUST AS CATS DO. Someone kept a "pet" bee one time. He too selectively bred this pet. After he selectively bred it it was called an Africanized Bee. It accidentally escaped his supervised confinement in the Americas. Luckily for everyone they're not destroying the complete food-chain where they are found, are limited in their range, and they're not spreading many deadly diseases to all humans and wildlife -- all those fun things that these domesticated-species cats do.

      If you phenomenally stupid cretins are going to use ecology, biology, speciation, and genetics in your arguments, the very LEAST that you could do is have a base comprehension of what you are talking about. Don't you think?

      No. And that's the problem with terminally ignorant morons like you, you CAN'T think.

      Oh, if ONLY there was a legal cure for "stupid"!

      If the sum of your education comes from bible-home-schooling replete with sing-along bambi-cartoon curricula then you have ZERO weapons in this argument -- as you've just proved to the whole world. Next time, try to not bring your imaginary cartoon-magic-wand to a real gun-fight. Thanks!

      (end of prepared-text for bible-home-schooled cretinous trolls)

      In closing, I am happy to let everyone know that just like useless waste-of-flesh vermin cats; uneducated and ignorant desperate-for-attention trolls like Doug Cutler can also be silenced and eventually eliminated, both in the very same way -- they can both be starved to death.

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 21 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      Woodsman001: Again: You show your lack of reasoning. I said race. not species. Don't you know the difference? I guess not. Too busy trolling with your blah, blah, blah. The Natzi's claimed the Jew were sub human and disease ridden too. You would fit right in!

      I get may cats fixed so I don't get too many. And so the area I live in doesn't get too many. One is too many for a cat hating wacko like you. I would guess you don't care if you kill someones' pet. I have plenty of wildlife on my property. The cats I have aren't doing as you ass-ume they are. I take care of them like the other members of my family.

      There you go again ass-uming that I am seeking attention. And now you are threatening people that have a different opinion than you.

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      Woodsman001 21 months ago

      My my my, we do have ourselves a desperately-hungry little troll; don't we.

      One last snack, and then that's it.

      I've already shot over a hundred collared cats (among the hundreds of others that I shot and buried) -- also perfectly legal. Just as the sheriff told me to do. If you don't destroy all free-roaming pet-cats, the very source of every last feral cat, then you have done absolutely NOTHING to solve the problem that morons like you create and perpetuate.

      All the cat-lickers by me told me for over a decade that all their "pet" cats were sterilized. But upon inspection during shooting and burying hundreds of them, NOT ONE of their collared cats was sterilized. Cat-advocates and cat-owners who let cats roam free are manipulative and deceptive LIARS -- one and all. (What does that inane fictional bible of yours say about "not bearing false witness," eh?)

      If you didn't believe that races of humans were different species then you wouldn't have made the outlandish leap that interbreeding races of humans were now a different invasive species that need to be destroyed.

      And I bet that you didn't think anyone could see right through your absurd 3rd-grader's back-peddling.

      See, that's the problem with morons like you, they think everyone is just as stupid as they are.

      Now if you don't want to find all your cats disappearing keep them on your own property. If not; then BYE-BYE, KITTY-KITTY, BANG-BANG! :-) The ONLY one who will care about it then is YOU! A perfectly just and equitable punishment and lesson that was well-deserved and earned -- by YOU.

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 21 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      You are the wacko that likes destroying things. And I didn't say or even suggest that the inbred races were invasive. That is your gig.

      Do as your heartless sheriff says. Gloat in your sickness!

    • IBrakeForBirds profile image

      IBrakeForBirds 21 months ago

      Woodsman understands the science and implications of how destructive outdoor and feral cats are on our native ecosystems. Like me, he treasures our native wildlife and has no time or patience for people who put the perceived needs of their pets above that of hundreds and thousands of dead native animals. He is 100% correct in everything he says.

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      Woodsman001 19 months ago

      Melissa, you might want to file this one on your "Alley Cat ALL-LIES" page. (aside: Though it might be a synergistic coincident, I think I still coined the name "Alley Cat ALL-LIES" for them over 6 years ago, you might have read it.)

      Along with all their other underhanded financial scams they come up with to have a multimillion-dollar business run off the backs of all the cats they throw in the streets to suffer to death, I just found this post to their facebook pages:

      https://www.facebook.com/AlleyCatAllies/posts/1015...

      It might be deleted from there soon, so here's the quoted text from the post:

      "Cindy Morris Maun to Alley Cat Allies"

      "December 8 at 1:37pm"

      "Don't ever contact me for a donation again. I went online to donate $25.00 and the receipt that came up showed $500.00! I've contacted my bank to cancel the transaction. Unbelievable!!!!!"

      I thought you (and others) might like a little chuckle for the holidays. :-)

    • profile image

      Woodsman001 19 months ago

      Melissa, you might want to file this one on your "Alley Cat ALL-LIES" page. (aside: Though it might be a synergistic coincident, I think I still coined the name "Alley Cat ALL-LIES" for them over 6 years ago, you might have read it. It's a fairly obvious progression from their name to one that's more realistic.)

      Along with all their other underhanded financial scams they come up with to have a multimillion-dollar business run off the backs of all the cats they throw in the streets to suffer to death, I just found this post to their facebook pages:

      https://www.facebook.com/AlleyCatAllies/posts/1015...

      It might be deleted from there soon, so here's the quoted text from the post:

      "Cindy Morris Maun to Alley Cat Allies"

      "December 8 at 1:37pm"

      "Don't ever contact me for a donation again. I went online to donate $25.00 and the receipt that came up showed $500.00! I've contacted my bank to cancel the transaction. Unbelievable!!!!!"

      I thought you (and others) might like a little chuckle for the holidays. :-)

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      Frederick Minshall 19 months ago

      Hey Melissa...

      I think it's time we start telling it like it is with respect to the so-called 'circle of life' fallacy. Feral cats have no place in it. Anywhere. Not even in the natural ranges of their (now critically endangered) wild parent species. Felis catus is not a 'natural' predator. Anywhere.

      Today's feral cats are the cast-offs of a debased, domesticated animal selectively-bred and ruthlessly culled to attack small moving targets regardless of whether or not it's hungry, as a means of pest control in ancient North African granaries (and possibly tombs).

      Domestication has brought about physiological and morphological changes in the animal, just as it has in dogs. That's how over time the once-proud timber wolf was transformed into an overgrown puppy with foreshortened muzzle, smaller teeth and floppy ears that cowers instead of defending itself if a human raises a hand to it.

      The Russians performed exactly the same transmutations on Gray Foxes through behavior-linked selective breeding/culling in just 50 years. They bred both submissive 'pet' strains and viciously aggressive ones (a wild fox's natural response to human presence is to flee). And their subjects exhibited morphological and physiological changes analogous to those seen in domestic dog breeds.

      Similar changes occurred in cats as well. Through domestication and selective-breeding cats now come into season and breed two to three times more often, are 50-75% smaller, and more tractable and dependent (i.e. less intelligent) than their wild forebears, the African and European wild cats (F. lybicus and F. sylvestris). Their killing and feeding impulses are controlled by separate parts of their little brains.

      One can via google easily find peer-reviewed reports of studies outlining these domestication-related morphological/physiological changes wrought by BEHAVIOR-linked selective breeding. But it's not really necessary to do so--simply google images of the few remaining European/African wild cats and visually compare them to the various (and often bizarre) breeds of their domesticated descendants.

      Better do it quick, or there won't be any wild cats left with which to compare. By dint of superior (human-engendered) numbers, feral cats have driven their wild forebears to the brink of extinction by displacing (i.e. killing/eating most of the available prey) and genetically swamping them. There are only 40 left in the UK.

      But since they'll never be tamed or be anyone's 'pets', the infantile, self-entitled imbeciles you rightly call "cat-crazies" don't care about them.

      If they can't trap it, castrate it, and get it to come running when they drop kibble on paper plates, they're not interested.

      That feral cats are driving their own parent species extinct in and of itself proves they're not part of 'the circle of life', 'nature' or any other Disneyesque label these deluded spinsters and their enablers want to use as an excuse for inflicting their disease-ridden "community" vermin on the rest of us.

      Taking into account the unnatural proclivities of this domesticated invasive predator, one can see how deliberately maintaining them at densities far beyond the environmental carrying capacity of any natural meso-predator by FEEDING the little darlings constitutes the primary ingredient of a recipe for ecological disaster:

      (1) Unnaturally high birth rate

      (2) Unnaturally high population densities through food subsidies

      (3) Introduced into places where no apex predators had evolved (example, New Zealand), or where they were killed off by humans (example, most of North America) such that cat numbers aren't suppressed or maintained at environmentally sustainable levels

      (4) The few native predators that do regularly go after cats frequently die from ingesting the parasites they carry

      (5) They're reflexive thrill-killers that hunt when they're not hungry

      If this vocal minority of cat-crazies continues to get its way our 'circle-of-life' will consist of our living in a giant litter-box, surrounded by the incessant mewling of cats, breathing in the acrid stench of cat-piss and inhaling T. gonidii oocytes from cat-crap. And the only place our children and grandchildren will be able to see cottontail rabbits, burrowing owls, western fence lizards, smooth green snakes, bohemian waxwings, northern flying squirrels and gray tree frogs will be in picture-books of extinct animals.

    • Doug Cutler profile image

      Doug Cutler 19 months ago from Temperance. Mich

      The Indians say the same about anyone not an Indian N and S America!

    • profile image

      Frederick Minshall 19 months ago

      Aw boo hoo. Add to that native Hawaiians and native Alaskans (where I live). Can you blame them? It never ceases to amuse me when those who are least affected by goof ol' American institutionalized white supremacy start whining that they're being picked on because of 'race' as you've done here. You remind me of an old song:

      "And the unsung western hero

      He killed an Indian or three

      Then made his name in Hollywood

      To set the white man free"

      (Ian Anderson--Hymn 43)

    • profile image

      Frederick Minshall 19 months ago

      To Those Who Demonize Australians For Their Plan to Eradicate Feral Cats

      Trap-Neuter-Release charlatans’ argument of first resort is that "trap-remove-euthanize doesn’t work."

      I agree wholeheartedly—trapping and euthanasia is too little too late to counter the ongoing feral cat scourge. What must be done instead is systematic eradication of unrestrained invasive felines, everywhere. They must be hunted to extinction. Nothing less will work.

      This arguably “extreme” option has never been tried against feral cats. But it has been tried against other very widespread and abundant (usually native) species, and quite successfully—for example, timber wolves, passenger pigeons, great auks (the original “penguins”) and—perhaps the most extreme example in history—the Rocky Mountain locusts (Melanoplus spretus).

      These locusts once plagued farms from California to Maine. They formed swarms of tens of trillions of individuals that weighed more than 27 million tons, covered areas larger than the state of California, blotted out the sun when they took flight and ate the very clothes off people's backs.

      Their swarms represented the greatest concentrations of animal biomass ever known. Yet we humans eradicated them in a little over three years—from 1877 to 1880. Mandatory extermination programs during peak swarming season (mostly by hand!) and bounties of up to $1 per bushel—big money in those days—reduced their numbers to where their remaining egg-deposition sites could be located, plowed under and/or flooded. Contemporary reports indicated plowing destroyed up to 150 egg-cases per square inch.

      But most important, Great Plains states switched to early-maturing winter wheat that was harvested before swarming season, effectively starving the locusts when they accumulated.

      Note this is the exact opposite of what the TNR charlatans do. You don't get rid of a pest by feeding it.

      Although the insects continued to be seen into the mid-1880s, there were no large swarms after 1877. The species was formally declared extinct in 2014, after comprehensive electrophoresis surveys of North American grasshopper DNA failed to find any remaining evidence of its genome.

      Today Australians are as desperate to save their unique and irreplaceable wildlife and protect their citizens from hundreds of deaths and thousands of debilitating illnesses caused annually by cat-vectored zoonotic diseases like toxoplasmosis and bartonellosis, as Americans once were to stave off mass-starvation before onsets of devouring locust swarms. And their desperation is justified. Australian scientists have found that 75 million native mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians disappear down feral cat gullets each night. How 'humane' is that?

      Since their introduction into Australia feral cats have eradicated 28 native marsupial species, and they currently threaten 127 more species of native wildlife with imminent extinction. The Aussies have no choice but to proceed with their campaign against the cats—over-the-hill ‘sex-symbol’ Bridgette Bardot’s shrieking and flailing notwithstanding.

      I adamantly support Australia’s attempt to eradicate feral cats. Two of my grandchildren, ages nine and six, were born and raised there. They and all Australian children deserve as part of their rightful heritage the opportunity to see wallabies, shingle-backed skinks, kookaburras, White’s tree-frogs, echidnas, numbats and king parrots somewhere other than in a picture-book of extinct Australian animals.

      Indeed, Australia will have to do more than merely destroy 2 million of these destructive invasive vermin over the next five years. Per ASPCA 1.3 million feral cats are euthanized annually in shelters here in the US, so we exceed the Australians’ goal every two years—and we still have a horrendous feral cat infestation. If Australia stops at 2 million, by 2020 they’ll be worse off than when they started. The phrase “go hard or go home” applies.

      The situation in North America is rapidly becoming as desperate as Australia’s—here feral cats destroy between 1.4 and 3.7 billion wild birds and 6.9 and 20.7 billion wild mammals annually. In the 1980s wildlife ecologist Stanley Temple with the University of Wisconsin at Madison demonstrated that feral, house and barn-cats destroyed 8 million wild birds annually in rural Wisconsin alone, with barn cats being the worst offenders. In one San Diego study, 35 well-fed, at-liberty house cats tortured and killed an estimated 1,960 wild mammals, birds and lizards in a single year. 67% of the mammals, 95% of the birds and 100% of the lizards were native, not pest species.

      As the TNR charlatans are so fond of reminding us, we humans are the greatest scourge on earth when it comes to extinction since the comet that took out the dinosaurs. We've proved it time and again throughout history. Well and good. Let's for once apply our destructive capabilities to eradicate an alien scourge we ourselves created, correct our mistake and alleviate the horrendous devastation this human-engendered scourge inflicts on wildlife populations worldwide.

      Placing profitable bounties on cats will prove absolutely essential to any serious eradication effort. The late Robert A. Heinlein once wrote "Never appeal to a man's better nature. He may not have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage." If humans can realize monetary gain from dead feral cats, feral cats will quickly become dead, and in substantial numbers. And the slaughter they inflict on native faunal assemblages, and the zoonotic health risks they present to the public, will diminish accordingly.

      Such a campaign might have the added benefits of reducing unemployment, enabling more people to work outdoors, and inducing responsible cat-lovers to keep their pets inside rather than risk them being culled by bounty-hunters—something both wildlife and most cat advocates agree is desirable. I realize not many will like this proposal, but I submit it's the only strategy for which there is historical evidence that it works. What other alternative is there—'TNR'? No, seriously...

    • profile image

      Frederick Minshall 19 months ago

      Regardless which numbers the feral cat fanatics will or won't accept, the destruction their precious 'pets-gone-wild' inflict on naturally-occurring wildlife assemblages is immense. I'll mention in passing that, despite vociferously denying any and all biologists' estimates, these myopic 'pet' fanciers haven't provided any of their own. None. Not one.

      Nor does the fact they find these invasive, disease-ridden "community" vermin emotionally-appealing entitle them to foist feral cats on their unwilling neighbors, their children and their property, or on native wildlife simply because they don't want cats killed for any reason, regardless of the horrendous damage they inflict.

      Fine. I find red-bellied piranhas (Pygocentrus nattererii) emotionally-appealing. Raise large numbers of 'em in aquariums. They're just SO cute when they shred goldfish, mice and hamsters alive.

      What a FINE reason to give 'forever homes' to about a thousand of my precious 'fin babies' in your local reservoir, swimming hole or fishing lake! Don't worry--I'll TNR four of them so they can't reproduce. Don't laugh--that's about the percentage of feral cats trapped-neutered-released in this country in the last decade and-a-half. And I'll clip part of the gill-flap on those fish so you'll know they're "free-roaming", not "stray" piranha.

      That way you'll know they can't reproduce and can return them to the water after they've bitten a chunk out of you. Sound like a plan?

    • DzyMsLizzy profile image

      Liz Elias 5 months ago from Oakley, CA

      Very interesting. You raise some valid points. I am sort of a halfway between a cat crazy and a cat protector. I love cats; I believe they are special. We have 6. They are strictly indoor-only. The rescue group I work with insists, by signature on their adoption forms, that the cats we adopt out will be kept indoors only, AND that they will never be de-clawed.

      I've written a hub about that barbaric practice; it boils down to, if you value 'things' more than the well-being of the cat, then don't get a cat!

      I argue back to those who are in favor of free-roaming cats, and their likely much shorter lifespans, due to everything from diseases, cat fights, predation, and the like, while maybe "natural," that there is also the likelihood of their ending up under the wheels of a car, which is hardly 'natural.'

      I foster kittens for our local rescue group, and I have just successfully adopted out the entire litter, after two prior attempts that resulted in a total of 3 'foster failures,' (explaining why we have 6 cats! (LOL) )

      Yes, I earned the gift of a 'crazy cat lady' mug from my daughter as a Yule gift, and I wear the title proudly. But, you will never, ever hear me advocate for cats being allowed to roam free it they are supposed to be pets.

      The rescue groups locally do a bang-up job with TNR programs for the truly feral; it stabilizes the population, and there are feeding stations set up.

      Is this ideal? No, but its a giant step ahead of how things used to be.

      Not sure where this places me in your mind, but, I make no apologies for who I am; I am an imperfect human trying to do the best I can with what I have.

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