This is a depiction, by the Satanists Temple, of the statue which they propose should be (and may be) erected next to the monument of the Ten Commandments at the Oklahoma State Capitol. Do you like it, dislike it, or are you indifferent? Are you OK with the adoring children as part of the monument? If so, why? The statue, by the way, depicts Baphomet, an androgynous creature.
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jlpark, the commandment is: If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy. As for having all religious symbols, it would get crowded. Christianity has influenced the underpinnings of American life, thus the 10 commandments.
Ah that sounds familiar. Thanks.
That's my point - if you aren't going to have all symbols don't have any - particularly in a country founded on freedom of (and from as the case may be) religion. And on government land
Yes, you do Freddy
My first thought was that the children should be wearing Slayer and Venom t-shirts and making the "devil horn" hand sign....
FatFreddy, I agree that the statue looks kind of silly. Having the children there is just plain dumb. The Satanists say it's to honor children,
It's obviously a gag. The so-called "Satanists" can't possibly expect this t actually be built, they're simply trolling and having a laugh.
Ooh Slayer 'tees - nice touch! Maybe model the face after Harvey Keitel? And make the boy child look like Adam Sandler!!
Harvey Keitel would be be cool but I was kinda picturing Gabriel Byrne, who was a great Devil in the flick "End Of Days" :)
Humanism in no way believes that there is no consequence of ill-deeds. It simply believes that they matter here and now and for real, rather than as an abstract ledger one carries around for an alleged deity.
The Christian Bible and the 10 commandments specifically, have affected the underpinnings of American Society and it's laws. This is why we are so cognizant of what is fair. It's a historical fact, Link.
And what I am saying is that means absolutely nothing in this instance. Religious freedom is a right in the US, Satanists have every right to erect a monument of their beliefs just as much as Christians do their 10 commandments. Constitutional fact..
Sometimeswhat is fair and what is right are two different things. I think many of us are all missing the forest for the trees, Link.
Do you actually plan on saying things that pertain to my comment at all? Or are we back to you avoiding the topic and claiming religious superiority like you did in my forum? If one religion is allowed, all must be allowed. Constitutional obligation
Much of the Satanic Bible is plagiarized from the book Might is Right. Might is Right supports ideas that are against those protected by the American Constitution. Satanism, despite the attempts at PR, is anti-human.
Link, I asked the question and I respect your right to feel as you do.
JT, it is said that parts of the bible are plagiarized from ancient Egyptian texts. Pretend that is unquestionably true, Christians had no problem creating a new story with new meanings from said texts, so why arent Satanists allowed to do the same?
Link, that is not true. Who told you that the bible was plagiarized by other ancient books?
Do you not know what the word "pretend" means Lybrah? Or did you not get past my first sentence?
What forum, link? What did I say to offend you? As for Lybrah's statement, it is accurate. The Bible has the most reliable texts. This is due to the fact that Judaism took it's education, historical facts & written content very, very seriously.
Most reliable texts? I shall simply say I disagree on that one and leave it at that. I didn't say you offended me Savvy, and it was the forum asking why religion needed to exist that you excused yourself from without answering my questions to you.
Why would you want to pretend anything?
So you didn't get past the first sentence. Good to know.
Link, renowned non-Christian archaeologists and historians such as William Albright, Nelson Glueck and Joseph Free have confirmed the Bible's historical accuracy. The plagiarism of LaVey is clear for all who compare Might is Right with his text.
Link, as for the forum---I recall that you wanted a yes or no answer, which is the method lawyers use to "entrap." I gave you many excellent answers, for which yes or no would have been inappropriate. I saw no point in going round and round.
Very thoughtful answer, lone77star. I would add, however that some Creationists accept evolution--probably the majority, with the caveat that God is still the creator of all... At any rate, I agree with all of your adjectives!
The man dying on the cross stands for our redemption and grace. While it is gruesome, it's meaning is completely a different story.
Of course, but your willingness to see past the gruesomeness to the deeper meaning should be extended to others.
junkseller, your synopsis is true of the popular meaning of Baphomet. It is also true that the depiction is representative of Satan, according to Lucien Greaves, spokesman for the Satanic Church.
Maybe, but for them, Satan as the anti-Christ, means to be against the supernatural. It doesn't represent the supernatural evil opposite. It is the rebeller against arbitrary authority (e.g. imaginary gods).
Well said, junkseller.
But...but Anthony Hopkins was a totally bad-ass Odin!!
Good point, bethperry. Satan and Baphomet are not the same. The picture I used is an actual drawing by the Satanists meant to represent Satan, who looks very male & not androgynous.
FatFreddysCat, yep, that be very true!
savvydating, yeah, you're right. Mr. Buff there, lol.
Even if they managed to get this statue built, it would probably end up vandalized/destroyed within the first day anyway.
Old-Empresario. I doubt the statue will be placed in the OKL capital, but the subsequent lawsuit that Satanist will file will mean that the 10 commandments may be removed, which is their goal.
I personally think the "new" McDonalds carryout bag is terrifying, and I am 20 years old. Oddly enough, a statue of a goat god is less terrifying to me.
Link10103, you're right - that carryout bag is ghastly!
Thank you for your input, esatchel. The real goal of the Satanists is to have the 10 commandments removed. It is not improbable that they will succeed.
The general public is pretty ignorant. Like those who think this group actually worships Satan. Exposing that ignorance (along with hypocrisy) is their point, so congratulations.
You are correct--Satanists really worship man--It is all about one being his or her own god, which is the pride that led to Satan's downfall. In the end, it just brings about ruin. But if you're not with Jesus, you're against Him.
Junkseller has a point. Primarily, Satanists claim to be exceptionally carnal. They're big on rituals involving sex, swords, coffins, chanting.... Lately, they're getting more involved in politics.
Interesting that you should remark on hypocrisy, Junkseller, when LaVey plagiarized a significant portion of the Satanic Bible from Might is Right/The Survival of the Fittest.
As far as I can tell, the group in question has no connection to LaVey at all and their apparent agenda and ideology are significantly different.
Anti-humanity isn't totally illogical when you consider the damage we've done to this planet as a whole. Someone who loves life is probably an optimist, while someone who hates life is a pessimist. I would call this perspective, which negates logic.
Hi Lady Guinevere. It looks like everyone is evenly spit on the subject of this symbol (of Satan). Absolutely, Jesus said to "love others." At the same time, he was no stranger to reproof either... so the question is, when does a symbol become more?
I didnt see this. When ppl put their focus on things that is when the symbol becomes more. Jesus said God's kingdom is within us, not outsd of us. Worshiping Idols is not listening to God within the blame game begins division creeps in.
Well, I do know that you admire Jesus, as I do. I still wonder, "What would Jesus say." After all, he had to deal with the devil, exorcise devils & he always "defended" his Father's commandments...
Jesus said all the laws were put in our minds. WE know. In God's kingdom resides evil, good, Jesus, Satan, Heaven and even Hell. Do not worship idol (outside of ourselves) No Other Gods (ppl) before us. No graven images (tempt to worship them).
Ok. Thanks for commenting. I'm not a Gnostic, Lady G, but I do believe that Jesus trumps evil.
Who said I was Gnostic? Who said that I do not believe in Jesus? YOU did.
Lady G, If you re-read my comments, I said you DO believe in Jesus. That's one of the things I like about you. If you're not a Gnostic, that's my mistake. I didn't mean to offend you in any way.
Not offended. I just do not fit into any label. Same here. I don't wrshp any symbol no matter if it is small or very large. As for evil and Satan..no such things. Not understanding is all that is.
I understand about not fitting into any label.
How can you say to allow this to be put up when the Ten Commandments are being taken down all across this country because they offend those who do not practice Christianity? Is this the direction in which you want this country going in?
GOD HELP THE USA
True, Penny. What many citizens fail to know is that out country was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles, not other principles like Satanism. Thus, displaying the 10 commandments is not inappropriate & is reflective of our laws & basic mo
savvy... they KNOW this but would die before they would admit anything of the sort. They choose to ignore this was once a great country because we were blessed by God and formed as a Godly (Jehovah) nation.
JThompson, I'm not so sure the average citizen understands how the Bible has greatly influenced all of North America. Historians speak about how grossly ignorant the general population is about these historical facts regarding the Bible's influence.
Casimiro posted a correct comment.
A wild gaggle of weak minded Bible-Thump'ers appeared!
Bible-Thump'ers used imaginary "facts" to claim they aren't mentally deficient.
Bible-Thump'ers died off because the strong humans quit being drug down by them.
Patrick..... you just joined HP a little over an hour ago and now you are trolling calling people names and belittling them. I suggest you use this site as it was intended to be used. Get involved or get out!!
JThompson. That's the thing. What the symbol represents. Satanists and/or humanists see the devil or "horned god" as a symbol of balance and not evil, and that is where the Christians disagree--for sure!
Funny you should mention the Nazi symbol. Satanists use the SS symbol in their churches. They are also inordinately fond of swords, which they hang all over their church headquarters, for whatever reason. Thank you for commenting, Lybrah.
The swastika is a very old symbol which came out of Eastern traditions (e.g Hinduism, Buddhism) and generally has a very positive meaning. Satanists using it does not have anything to do with Nazism.
Nevertheless, junkseller, the swastika remains an offensive symbol in this modern day, and Satanist must know that. Frankly, I wish they'd get a life instead of annoying people for fun.
I'd agree, and I wouldn't use the symbol here, though, it is still widely used in places like India. I haven't seen any evidence that this particular group, The Satanic Temple, uses it. And I don't think they are doing this just for fun.
junkseller, LaVey used the swastika in his rituals & in his home. Whether it is used regularly today, I don't know. I got that information from a book entitled, The Devil is a Gentleman. Interesting reading material, by the way.
I can't claim to know much of anything about Satanism, but LaVey seemed to basically be a hedonist. The Satanic Temple, in contrast, seems to be legitimately concerned about humanism. To me, humanism is defensible. Hedonism not so much.
I hear you. Stange that Satanists call themselves something they say they don't believe in. Weird. I'm pretty much over the whole moral relatiavism thing. It twists the truth, and that is what I find disturbing.
The reason they call themselves Satanists has been outlined at least a few times in this very thread. I find it strange how you don't understand when all I had to do was google the name. Had little to no prior knowledge of them either
Link, nothing has been outlined here, except to say that not all Satanist are LaVey Satanists. BTW, I looked for the God Exists forum you mentioned, but couldn't find you...Satanist, according to Google, are more or less hedonists with a cause.
I dont understand why you replaced "religion" with "god" when I very clearly said religion. Also, I highly doubt you will be able to find your comment easily. The forum is pretty inactive now, but there are about 40 pages of comments to sift through
Lol, Link. Sorry I "replaced" the wrong word. Sheesh. It is true that I do not keep up with forums. After awhile, they're just one big downer, so I may have missed your question. I don't remember. Have a good night.
"Do you think all religions past, present, and future have, had, and will fail because they have not adopted Christianity?". You refused to answer several times, called me an atheist (funnily enough I'm not) said I had fun starting fights and left.