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How to deal with liars at work

Updated on February 11, 2013

Dealing with Liars in the Workplace

I wrote much of this as a response to a question about how to deal with liars in the workplace. I hope this is helpful and I welcome any feedback or questions.

There are different types of liars that you may encounter varying in the level of self-awareness and intentionality of their lying. Some people tend to embellish or exaggerate. Those actions, usually required by the embellishers to stroke or build their own fragile egos, can certainly be categorized as lies, but they tend to be less harmful overall than the lies of pathological or manipulative liars.

Some liars are pathological and compulsive, meaning that they seem not to be able to help themselves. They may lie out of habit, or fear, or simply because they've learned that lying has worked better for them than telling the truth.These liars may lie without even thinking about it as being a lie. In fact, they may even believe the reality that they construct.

Then there are the manipulative liars, fully aware of what they are about and being strategic about making others look bad and themselves appear better in comparison. These people will lie about the work they themselves do, and they will lie to you and about you to other people.

Once you've figured out that you are dealing with a pathological or manipulative liar, you must take steps to protect yourself and your reputation in the organization. Here are some techniques that you can use:

1) Very quickly avoid trying to resolve issues with them as you would with a person of integrity. All that does is put you in a situation of vulnerability. They will just use the information you share with them against you, and will see your efforts to resolve issues with them as an indication of weakness.

2) Calmly and directly confront the liar immediately upon the lie-whether it occurs in front of witnesses or not. Simply state the truth and then avoid the crazy arguing that the liar will try to engage you in. If that person is a liar, it's not just you in the organization that will know it, and your standing up to him or her might give someone else the courage to do so as well. A liar is a bully, and bullies need standing up to or they run amok.

3)NEVER meet alone with a liar to resolve a situation as you would a regular colleague. Doing so will set you up for further lies, including accusations on their part that you were somehow inappropriate or abusive in the meeting. Remember, they will lie, and also, since they lie, any agreement or resolution the two of you come up with will be broken by them anyway. Always try to have a witness in your dealings with a liar.

4)Document! Don't let a situation develop where it's your word against his or hers. Liars can be very smooth and practiced in presenting a distorted reality to your organizational superiors.

5)Let your integrity shine! Don't stoop to the liar’s level. Show your integrity consistently in such a way that if it ever comes down to your boss or others having to believe you or the liar it will be no contest.

Lying at work is a form of harassment and bullying. It's an activity that is often reflective of a dysfunctional organizational culture and a lack of consistent firm leadership that demands accountability to organizational values and standards. No one should have to put up with abuse and the accompanying experiences of distrust, insecurity, and anxiety at work. If you're not satisfied with leadership's response to your concerns, you may wish to consult with an employment lawyer, as well as talk with your physician about the stress you're experiencing.

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    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 4 weeks ago

      Thanks, John. I agree. What I find sad it that truth doesn't seem to matter any more. Everyone knew he was a liar and yet he won. We need to get back to teaching critical thinking in schools.

    • John Dove profile image

      John Dove 4 weeks ago

      I read your Hub and agree with your characterization of liars. What immediately came to my mind was Donald Trump. He lies -- seemingly with impunity! Now, whatever he says, I take with a "grain of salt." Sad!

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 2 years ago

      This is pretty hard to follow at times, but I'll try.

      I hope you documented the abuse of your colleague. I hope that colleague documented it and will support your story of being abused. If he causes this many problems, others must be affected as well. Get the support of those. Document everything and present a united front so it's not just his word against yours. You did mention that your colleague raised this concern with others. Gather all of this information together and present it to your boss's boss. If he doesn't have one at least you will be able to protect yourself from being fired as you would all be able to pool resources and hire an employment lawyer and possibly file a harassment report with whatever legal or human rights organization deals with this where ever you live.

    • profile image

      Sadness 2 years ago

      Over the last 18 months I have seen my boss bully and harass a colleague, lie, skive, be rude, cause issues between departments and given me tasks only to promise review to job and grade, which when I asked him when was he going to do this, to be told we needed to complete the form. After delays of getting THIS FORM from him, when I asked him in an email to pass THE FORM to me to complete to avoid further delay (now 6 months later), he ignored me. I decided to get the FORM, complete and emailed it to him to process. He came into the office said nothing. I asked if he had received my email with THE FORM then he told me it was the wrong form, and that's not what we had discussed. I told him I felt that he had led me up the garden path and felt abused by him leading me on with false promises. He then went on about me recent sickness in compete ting the necessary absence forms for him, rather than discussing the cause of the stress - which is the way he has been treating me. It seems no matter what I say, his right and I'm wrong. He had a new line manager who takes his word on everything and sees me as a moaner. My colleague has had similar experience and raised this as a concern with others but nothing gets done. I work in NHS. Help me Please, he's broken me twice in 18 months.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 2 years ago

      That's an interesting ethical dilemma question.

      I think that as I had promised to keep confidence I would encourage the co-worker to allow both of us to talk with the stealing co-worker. I would feel obligated to keep that confidence as breaking it might cause as many problems as those caused by the thief.

      Having said that, this scenario shows the importance of not promising to keep all and any confidences. If someone asks if they can tell you a secret, it's important to set limits on that confidentiality based on personal and organizational protection.

    • profile image

      Sylveus 2 years ago

      1. A co-worker told you in confidence that another co-worker is habitually stealing. What would you do and why?

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 3 years ago

      Good luck.

      Make sure you bring in a list of facts and stay as unemotional as you can. You want to appear as rational and competent as you can. Bring in documentation and stick calmly to the truth about you and your work.

      Theo

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      chenill 3 years ago

      i lost my job because the chef, hated me and the group lead always carry lies to him on me.i am trying to get my job back,but not with that group lead i have a meeting in the morning with human resources and the manager who let me go,i just want to tell my side and get my job back.thank you

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 4 years ago

      Hi Mrs Hadley,

      This is a very difficult message to respond to because much of it is unclear. For instance, this sentence does not make any sense: "The son twists the situations to make his bosses look like they aren't looking after him of bullying him." As well, I can't tell whether your boss is stating that the colleagues are lying or if it's the person whom you are saying is a problem that is lying. And who is the boss's son? Which boss? Your boss? His boss? Same boss?

      I'm glad you've been documenting. Be sure that if you go to a different boss to make a complaint after going to your boss that your boss won't see it as you going behind his/her back or over his/her head.

      If you do go to the son's boss who is his mother/father, be sure to emphasize that you understand this is a very delicate situation and that you woudn't be approaching him/her if it wasn't so important. Talk about how awkward you feel about speaking about that person's son first. Then, and only if you receive an invitation to speak further, talk about what you have documented and be clear about what you would like to have happen.

      Hope this helps.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Mrs Hadley 4 years ago

      Hi

      I'm in a dilemma. My bosses son works within my department, but someway down under me and I have had problems with him lately, not only lying but he seems to have an accident and hurt himself at every turn. The son twists the situations to make his bosses look like they aren't looking after him of bullying him. I have tried to speak to my boss about it, but he is stating that the colleagues are lying, when I know they are not.

      I'm at a loss as to what to do other than to go to his boss. We are and have been documenting the situations.

      Any advice would be appreciated.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 4 years ago

      He could be both, have a drug issue, be Manic Depressive, or even suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder. (Look that last one up and see if it fits.) In his saner moments, ask if you can write down what the agreement is between the two of you so that you can avoid the disagreements in the future about what was said.

      Having said that, if he truly is unstable and has an untreated psychiatric disorder, I'd be looking for another place to live. In the mean time, don't forget to review the landlord tenant act to see what your rights are and remember that you are protected from violence and threats of violence from him by law (and police), even if you're his tenant.

    • profile image

      EvanF 4 years ago

      Hi Theo

      I am having a problem with my landlord and I can't figure out what to do about him. He says one thing and then 2 days later, he absolutely denies he ever said it. He tells me that he likes having me in the house and then hours later, he is freaking out and screaming at me that I left a plate on the counter. We live in the same house (his) and I rent two rooms on the second floor (1 office/livingroom and 1 bedroom) and we share the kitchen and bathroom. He told me that I can have 1/2 of the space in the kitchen but he didn't move anything for me. When I asked him about it, he got instantly angry and claimed he never said anything like that. He eats my food that I leave in the fridge and claims that I don't do enough around the house in general (ie. vacuuming etc.) I don't use the rest of the house though so I don't know why he would think I would be doing that anyway. If I ask him about his line of questioning, he is instantly on the offensive and I just can't talk to him because he is unreasonable in his thoughts. He is calm one minute then explosive the next for no reason. The rent is reasonable and I can't afford to move right now but I don't know how to handle this. It's like he's Jeckle and Hyde. He can be pleasant and charming to guests and when they are gone, he just loses it and starts yelling at me about the stupidest stuff and then the next day, claims he never yelled or screamed at me at all. Is this guy a pathological liar or a manipulative liar. I just can't figure him out. Any insight into this guy?

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 4 years ago

      You didn't explain what "the drama" was that her boss complained about. In the absence of that, I think you should ask your boss for direction and then follow that direction very carefully documenting as you go. Let your boss know about her history. It seems as if your boss doesn't want to lose you so s/he could be a good ally in this situation. Explain that you don't want to be like the other people Cheryl forced out and ask for what you can do to prevent that from happening.

    • profile image

      Eileen 4 years ago

      I work in a place where we share space but its 2 separate companies. I work for one company and this other person i have an issue with works for the other company. This other person we will call Cheryl is a pathological lier - she is a bully and loves drama. Since she has forced many decent employees out of her company with her lies, I am now her target. The worst part of all, her boss believes all her lies and blames me for the drama. Her boss went to my boss complaining. Of course my boss has known me for 11 years and explained that there has no be even 30 seconds of drama in all those years; her boss in unconvinced, he blames me for the drama and now ignores me. How do I deal w/ this bullying and harassment since we have to work almost side by side with each other, should I ignore her which I have no problem doing or would that create more lies that she will tell or do I have to be cordial/ which is very difficult since I am trying very hard not to despise her? I need advise desparately.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 4 years ago

      I think it's best to document the events, print them off, and then give them to your boss in the meeting, if he wants to see them. Don't blind side him with this sort of email. Ask for a meeting, let him know it's about an issue you're struggling with and that you need his guidance, and then take the documentation with you to back up your story after you talk with him about it.

      Feel free to show him our correspondence if you think it'll be helpful.

      I hope things work out. Take care.

      Theo

    • Alfiebear profile image

      Alfiebear 4 years ago

      Hey Theo,

      yes it absolutely makes sense. I am in the process of drawing up an e-mail documenting these events, so that I can remain calm and talk to my boss about what has happened. And ask for his guidance in trying to find a resolution to this problem. In which hopefully he will take over from here. I do agree this needs to be addressed now. It will only get worse if left as it is. However, It could be difficult for me to get my co-workers to agree with having a meeting with my boss to discuss this issue, as they will not want to get involved. Do you think it would be appropriate for me to e-mail him with my concerns and then ask for a meeting to discuss and resolve these issues?

      Thank you so so much for your input.... it does help immensely.

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 4 years ago

      Hi Alfie (Bear),

      Thanks for the letter.

      I can tell that this situation has caused you a great deal of turmoil. Not only that but now you find yourself in a situation where your reputation at work and your relationship with your boss could be undermined-all out of your well intended efforts to help. If you don't do something soon, your anxiety may continue to escalate and not only could your job be threatened, but your mental and physical health could erode.

      Let's back up a bit to how this started and got way off track in the first place. Sometimes the solution can be found in the history of the mistake. Here's what should have happened: If Val had concerns about personal issues affecting her work performance, she should have first gone to her manager, NOT, her colleagues to discuss the issue. Then her manager could have gone to the rest of the team (with her permission) to explain why you all might need to pitch in a little extra for a while until she resolved her issues and got back on her feet. Her manager could also have directed her to any EAP support services that your company might provide. When she went to you instead, she ended up entangling you in her life without any record of this on file to explain any subsequent work disruption.

      When she came to you the appropriate response would have been to advise her to speak to her manager. Instead, you took on her issues and made them your own. Now you need to backtrack and divest yourself of those issues and attempt to bring the manager in as should have happened in the first place. You and your team need to talk with your boss together to explain what happened, acknowledge that you (well intentionally) overstepped and ask her/him to deal with the situation as she/he would have if it had been handled appropriately in the first place. You will then back away from the situation and let your boss do his/her job.

      Unfortunately there is no way of ensuring that it will now be handled appropriately, but this is out of your hands (as it should have been in the first place). This is a management issue that coworkers should not have taken on. It now needs to be given to management to deal with.

      Does that help and make sense?

      Theo

    • Alfiebear profile image

      Alfiebear 4 years ago

      Hi Theo,

      Thank you for your post. A lot of these instances that people are posting about reminds me of a situation that I am dealing with at the moment.

      It pretty much started about 6 months ago (July 2012) when a co-worker started to slack off in her work. My other colleagues an myself had noticed that she had shown signs of being stressed and we tried to support her by picking up the slack. In August this woman (Val) approached me and said that she needed to talk to me regarding something that was going on in her life and she was having trouble dealing with it. Her problem was that she had recently split up with her husband. This woman was from overseas and had only come to this country in April 2012, so she was away from her family and friends and didn't have the support network close to her during this time. I sympathized with her and told her we would support her as much as we could during this difficult time. Which we all did.

      However, as time went on, (Val) continued to slack off and generally came across as not taking care or pride in her work. And my colleagues and myself were left once again to pick up the slack. This went on for a number of months ( up until November 2012). At that stage both my colleagues and I were getting very frustrated with her tardiness but we tried to point out mistakes/errors by making it a refresher for everybody and asking that everybody take care with certain projects as there were mistakes being made. We did this so as to not single (Val) out, as she came across as a very sensitive person and did not take criticism well.

      This did not work and the tardiness continued and then things came to the point that Val would ask me to help her with a task at the end of the day, and then conveniently disappear and get ready to go home and leave me to finish the job. She did this a couple of times, which I took as trying to "milk her situation" for her own convenience.

      Eventually, my colleagues were complaining about the mess Val was constantly leaving behind, so I went and talked to her about it. I explained to her that I understood that she has been having problems, but it has come to the stage that she wasn't pulling her weight at work. I also explained that it wasn't anything personal but we needed her to try and apply herself to her work as she was making mistakes. She seemed to take it quite well and agreed to make a bigger effort.

      To clarify, I am not a supervisor or anything, I am just the most senior member of staff in this department of our workplace.

      A couple of weeks later another co-worker (Helen) came up to me and told me that (Val) had approached her and said that I had talked to her, and said that she wasn't pulling her weight and then Val said" I dont know whats she's talking about though, because she said you were lazy a few weeks ago to me". Luckily, I have a good working relationship with Helen and she had no problem coming up to me and asking me directly if I had said that. Which I hadn't. Both Helen and myself felt that she was just trying to "Stir the pot" out of insecurity and decided to let it go.

      In the following couple of months, this Val started acting very paranoid and would eavesdrop on conversations I was having with other co-workers, and would stand in the doorway of my work area and stare at me. I found this very un-nerving and overbearing, but I decided to try and ignore it.

      Just before Christmas, I ended up working through my lunchbreak, so I went into our lunch room and asked the staff in there if one of them could please do me a favour and pop out to pick me up some lunch as I was working through lunch hour and I wouldn't be able to get out to get something to eat. I left money on the table and I then rushed back to my work.

      As soon as I left the room Val said "who the hell does she think she is", I'm not getting her lunch, she can get her own lunch". One of my other colleagues (Carol) was quite disgusted at her attitude, and later told me about her rant. Thankfully, Carol helped me by getting some lunch for me.

      I felt that this was unnecessary behaviour and made me feel like Val cant not be relied upon. Since then, Val has become very friendly with my boss. Before this drama, I had a very good working relationship with my boss, and I now feel that it is strained.

      Now, Val has recently been acting excruciatingly "Nice" to me in front of my Boss and other senior staff and then ignoring me once they are not there. Which presents to me as being "Fake". Which it is.

      I have been trying to deal with this situation by focusing on my work, as this is what I am there to do, and I have not said anything to my Boss or colleagues as I feel this will make me looking like a troublemaker or a whiner and in turn this will dis-credit me in thier eyes. Which I am now convinced is what Val is trying to do.

      I am also trying to keep and good relationship with my boss and colleagues, but it is difficult as Val is constantly imposing herself into any interaction I have with the others, which makes it difficult to maintain good relations.

      I do not to engage in any interaction with this woman, unless it is strictly work related. And now she is going out of her way to persistently follow me around and put on a huge show of niceness and then lies to everybody by telling them, that she has been nothing but nice to me.... and she cant understand why I dont like her.

      As you can probably tell, my workplace is predominantly female, hence all the triangulation and gossiping....but I am now aggressively staying away from this type of behaviour as I feel whatever I say will be used against me.

      Please help! I love my job, but this is slowly killing my enthusiasm for my work. I know a lot of this will sound paranoid, but I'm following my gut instinct here.

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 4 years ago

      Hi Daimes,

      Thanks for the letter.

      First of all, there is nothing wrong with your plan to look for a healthier company WHILE you continue to work for this one. It's always easier to find employment while being employed.

      In the mean time, I would ask management to set some very clear targets for you to achieve in order for them to give you what you think you need in order for you to "see progress." (You don't mention if this means a raise or a promotion.) Be clear with them what you would consider progress and ask them to be clear with you about what would be required for you to attain that progress. The targets should be measurable and behavioural.

      Once you've been given those targets, ask how progress on your part towards the attainment of those targets will be measured. Then call them on it once the targets have been attained. This will make it more difficult for them to simply blow you off with meaningless platitudes and make it easier for you to achieve your desired progress (while keeping your eyes open for other opportunities).

      Good luck!

      Theo

    • profile image

      Daimes 4 years ago

      Hi Theo,

      Thank you for your post. Makes me think of the current situation I am in.

      I work for a small company. I've been harassed both on a professional and personal level by co-workers who I trusted. I brought it up to management, with supporting documentation. They claim that they have "fixed" the problem however, later they started promoting those same co-workers I filed a complaint against. Mangement keeps telling me that I'm doing a great job, I'm strong in my work, etc etc however, I see no progress. Instead, I see my work declining. They smile and seriously treat me like I am "important" to the company and making me think I am given more responsibilities when in reality, it feels more like a set-up and that I am just being taken for being a fool.

      Would you have any advice? I put much thought into this and I see no other option than to move on to a healthier company.

      Daimes

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      It's good being right.

      Thanks for the feedback. Let's hope your business detoxifies and that she gets the help she needs.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Portland Shoegirl 5 years ago

      About 8 months ago I wrote in about an employee that lied over unimportant stuff that no adult lies about. She also lied and fabricated stories about things that were intended to manipulate and control me, her boss. I let her go, and she immediately started spreading stories about the company fiscal health. It hurt the business. I wish I'd never let this person get so close to my customers. Month's passed, and recently we found drugs in her desk - hidden away. Everything from downers to uppers, and ADD meds that are not hers. It explains the forgetfulness, the lack of focus one day & increased energy the next. At the end of the day, I've learned to fire people fast is better than working with them. You can't change crazy. Your first sentence was - fire her. You were right, and so was everyone that told me that exact thing for years.

      Crazy employees, make crazy bosses.

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hello Racheyroo,

      Thanks for the note.

      This one is easy. You need to go to the volunteer coordinator of the charity, explain the situation to her/him, and follow that person's lead.

      I've worked for a charity and I believe this: The charity's mandate is to be there for its members/clients. Anyone who disrupts that process, who is creating problems for the clients, needs to be held accountable. Nothing should get in the way of the charity and the people it is providing services to. You've been both a client and a volunteer, and so you know this to be true.

      Explain the situation to your volunteer coordinator. He/she needs to know. Step back and let herim do herim's thing.

      Good luck!

      Theo

    • profile image

      Racheyroo 5 years ago

      Hi Theo,

      I hope your well, I'm after a little advice about a situation I have found myself in. I am currently working for a charity as a volunteer, it is an early intervention charity and we need to have a high level of trust between all members of the charity clients and staff. I was previously involved with them as a client due to being depressed and a single mum of twins. I have since over come my depression and I am in the process of being trained as a family support worker. With the out look to being employed with them as an official trainee by Christmas (funding dependent)

      The problem I have is that I have become aware of a coworker (volunteer) who has been lying about a client (who is also a friend of mine) This coworker told me that she had lent a client money which she will not repay and also told me that the client has caused trouble for a policeman and the policeman was suspended. I have recently discovered that this is not the case and the policeman was put on disciplinary for looking at someones file without there being a police investigation. Nothing to do with the lady at all. I have spoken to her about this and she is obviously upset and wants me to speak to my seniors about it. I have also been told that this coworker had told a different client that we had fallen out (news to me) she said to this lady that myself and my partner had split up because he was messaging her and asking her to coffee, I was obviously furious about this and confronted my partner they had indeed sent messages to each other but it was nothing along the lines of this just about a bag she has left in his car when we gave her a lift home one evening.

      I really don't know the best thing to do here. I have told my friend/client that I don't want to cause any trouble at work because I value my job so much however she has said if I don't say anything to my seniors then she will. I'm very worried about the whole shoot the messenger syndrome and I really don't know what to do for the best. I have been worried about this for a few days now any advice would be greatly appreciated.

      Kind Regards

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      I'm not sure if medical resources are what are required, unless you're considering lobotomy.

      And clearly, too little information provided for me to respond to other than to say that he may be lying because he gets rewarded for it. Remove the rewards, enforce logical consequences, and he will likely stop lying to you.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Mark 5 years ago

      Is there any response I can get from medical resources that as advice for me to explain how I should handle my stepson who is a continious liar, trouble maker for me and my wife and will never admit to his wrong doing that he creates and will never correct his say so in the community .

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      I hope that the lies don't have anything to do with proper grammar, spelling, and professional presentation.

      You gave me very little information, but if your boss was involved in fabrication with your co-worker, your chances of proving your innocence are slim. You would need documented proof, and even then, your boss clearly would not be interested.

      This may be a workplace harassment matter and for that I recommend one of my "followers," Undercover Lawyer. Check in with him, but please be more careful about how you present yourself or you will not be taken seriously.

      Theo

    • profile image

      annabram 5 years ago

      i had lost my job due to my coworker , a lier who fabricated a story against me with the help of my boss. I and almost all staffs are believes he is a lier . In this circumstances how could I prove my innocency.

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      First of all, document that you did what your manager asked and report back to him. Then ask for further direction. Also ask what the manager might do, now that you have done what was asked of you.

      As for quitting, it's always easier to find a job while you still have one. Quitting impulsively or out of anger is an action often regretted.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Diana 5 years ago

      I am working on a joint project with another person and he's turning out to be a bully and a liar. He tries to dodge the bullet on real issues by pointing fingers at people and at one time kept harassing me (via email) because he started pointing fingers at a person and it turns out that he was never invited to a meeting. Then he started saying that I told him that he was invited but he didn't show. It was just finger pointing at everyone but himself for his lack of preparation. He also tried gang up on me with his group of people by forwarding the email and trying to get their agreement. It got to such a ridiculous stage that I talked to my manager.

      My manager stated that I be the bigger person and build personal relationships with him first (and another one of his group who is the same way.) My manager likes them fine, and was asking me to be empathetic with them because there might be other issues that they're dealing with. He didn't know for sure, but he said he has never seen him act that way.

      I tried talking to them couple of times before, but they seem to be on the same page while we talk but the next day, it just goes back to square zero. They're just who they are, completely forgets what we discussed and starts back up again on blaming games.

      I am just at a stage where I have to decide whether I need to leave the company where such behavior is protected. They bully people who don't agree with their point of view and just keep on lying and dodge the real issues.

      I've heard couple of coworkers who stated they have never been in such an environment. So I think it maybe a cultural issue as well.

      If at least my manager had the character and strength to stand up to such behavior, I'd be okay. But even my manager is hazy on such issues, so even though I have no job lined up, I am so tempted to just quit.

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hi Mike,

      Great well-written clear letter! Thank you.

      This is the typical manipulative liar described in the classic book, "Snakes in Suits." I'd buy that book if I were you.

      You've done all the external things you can. You've talked with him and you've given your organization the chance to strengthen by revealing this weakness to them. They've chosen to ignore you and now you risk looking like a problem because of this problem.

      Once you get to the point where it's clear that you can't make an external change it's time to focus on internal change. You need to be asking yourself just how much of your energy and time does this liar warrant. I gather that you are already going down this road by considering a career move, but be careful that you don't let him have too much of an influence on your life. Move if you want to, but don't let him make the choice, especially if overall you like your job and you worked hard to earn your position.

      From what you described, the guy seems really insecure and he makes stuff up, but you haven't described him as being malicious. Maybe let him be with his over-inflated self-fantasies and let other people decide whether or not to believe him. Do your job, let your personal integrity shine, and leave him to expose himself for who he is which inevitably happens to people who depend on lies to keep their egos intact.

      Now, if his lies directly interfere with your work or he slanders you, you need to deal with him and management directly. If nothing is done, then for sure, looking for another place to work (while keeping your legal options open regarding workplace harassment policies) is a good idea.

      Hope this helps. And thanks for reading.

      Good luck!

      Theo

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      Mike O. 5 years ago

      Hi, Theo.

      Boy, this is a great article. Took me too long to find it, what with all the other google results saying the same (obvious) things.

      I work with a liar, sort of a mix of compulsive and manipulative. I have heard him claim completely outrageous things (like running over 300 techs from our field in a previous job - more than the whole company we currently work for, and we're floor-level employees!), I know he has pencil-whipped evaluations (we're Aerospace Quality inspectors), and he seems to just answer questions with the first thing that pops into his head, whether it makes any logical sense or not.

      The problem is, he's very good at quick-talking people into believing him, and he's got all of the management and lead folks bamboozled into thinking he's right (they don't know how to do our job, they just manage scheduling and whatnot). I've tried going up my chain of command, I've tried confronting him directly (just leads to a pissing match), and I've even talked to HR. Because of alll his quick-talk, I'm being looked at as a rable-rouser who can't play nice with his peers. I feel like a dog being scolded for barking at a rat. I'm actually considering a career move now, because I can't stand to work in a department that continues to employ such garbage.

      I'm sorry if I seem a little crazy, here. This situation has been driving me nuts for months. What can I do?

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      I think you're right to take on a "water under the bridge" attitude as long as it's understood by both you and your colleague what went wrong. Like you, I can't imagine that she couldn't have known what she was doing, and like you, I'd have a difficult time trusting her again (see my hub on rebuilding trust).

      I think it would be a good idea to have a meeting with the other senior managers and your colleague to clear the air and to avoid any misconception of you being a negative discontented manager. Frame the meeting as being about clarifying possible misconceptions and learning from this as to what kinds of conversations require confidentiality.

      As for people denying that they are unhappy, the truth about that is bound to surface and you may end up looking like you at least tried to make a difference. If the topic comes up, remind people that that was your motivation. As time goes on your excellent work habits and managing style will win out.

      I hope this helped. Good luck. And really, good for you for trying to make your work environment a better place for peeople.

      Theo

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      hiker1000 5 years ago

      Hello,

      I have an excellent reputation as a middle manager. Recently, our department reorganized and many staff called me with complaints. Trying to address this head-on, I went to a trusted senior manager to share that key staff were unhappy and see if we could work to remedy that. I emphasized that I was speaking in utmost confidence, but made the grave mistake of mentioning a name (keep in mind, this senior staff person was a ten-year, highly trusted colleague.)

      I was shocked the next day to find that she had shared our confidential conversation (including names!) with a large number of people, one of whom was the individual whose name I had mentioned. Needless to say, everyone she talked with denied any unhappiness at all, and the result is that now I look to my peers like a betrayer, and to the rest of senior management like a discontented manager who is falsely spreading negativity. Not at all the case.

      I approached my colleague who said she had not understood our conversation to be confidential - impossible to believe given that I had emphasized that so much. I have since approached the workplace with a very positive attitude, but serious damage has been done to my working relationships. I apologized to the one person I named, and she has been understanding but the trust is destroyed.

      How do I handle this? My colleague clearly betrayed a confidence knowing full well what she was doing. I'm shocked as she is usually highly professional. I'm taking the 'water under the bridge' attitude, and won't discuss anything with her confidentially again, but is there anything else I should be doing? Thanks for your adivce!

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hello Julie,

      Thank you for reading and writing.

      There are a few things I want to say, some of which you may not like to read.

      First of all, I understand that you feel you are dealing with another manager who receives preferential treatment even though you believe her work is shoddy and she demoralizes your workers. If this is true, you have every right to draw this to your manager's attention and ask for help. Your workers also have a right to have a harassment free work environment. They can document their issues, submit them to you, and you can pass them on to your manager and ask for support.

      HOWEVER, from the way you wrote your letter I wonder if you are merging your professional concerns with your personal ones. Your professional ones about the organization and how employees are treated appear to be merging with resentment about how the other supervisor "seems to get better treatment" than you. You called a meeting with managers and directors to address organizational issues but then it seemed to be all about whether you could get the time off you wanted. That would appear to other people as you being about you, rather than you being about the organization and your concerns overall. You calling that meeting about the issues you described concerns me. That sort of meeting would be called as a last resort, and the focus of it should not be about you and your time off.

      Be careful about how you present yourself. I had a difficult time reading your letter due to issues with spelling, grammar and, at times, flat-out in-coherency. What is wrong for them being "constructive"? You "comfronted" your manager? You write about other supervisor's work being "shoddy", but your letter to me could be described that way. We all need to be careful about projecting our issues on to others. This may be one of those "take the log out of your own eye before taking the sliver out of someone else's eye" situations where you need to look long and hard at yourself; your work and your workplace relationships.

      You may indeed have legitimate concerns, but in this case you may need to address your own shortcomings in order to be taken seriously by the other managers and directors. Otherwise you run the risk of coming across whiny and jealous as well as shortsighted about the quality of your own work.

      I hope this helps.

      Theo

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      julie 5 years ago

      My workplace recently took on another supervisor,who may i add i recommended.However since we took her on we have split the workload and areas, when she has had any contact with my areas she demoralises my workers and has referred to them as minion. I since have found out she slacks and lies,she seems to get better treatment than i do and i have comfronted my manager who agreed with me. Nothing was done and i called for a meeting with the managers and the directors, firstly i wanted to take 3 weeks off and the other supervisor had taken 4 weeks of in one go previously, i was told i was not allowed the time i refused to not take it as my managers already knew so it was allowed. she gets time off and it is made difficult for me to take days owed to me, it is very constructive how they do things, how can i prove this?? the other supervisors work is shoddy and it has led to us having to do extra work and i am expected to do this as part of the audit outcome, the manager who agreed with me in the meeting said she thought she dint but then changed her mind in front of the directors. do you have any advice as i am a good hard working person who prides herself on supporting staff and telling the truth?

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hi Alexis,

      Sorry, I don't play games. The worst thing you can do in this situation is to stoop down to a liar's level. "Setting her up" sounds too much like dishonesty and trickery to me and that doesn't meet the criteria for staying true to principles of integrity.

      Theo

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      Alexis 5 years ago

      hey. there is a girl that always lies not just at work. And she likes to make herself look good. but she does everything she can to make me look like the biggest liar ever. So she turns my friends against me and they cant trust me anymore. i want to set her up so i can prove shes the liar but u got anything?

    • profile image

      Barend 5 years ago

      Good day,

      I am also in a situation, were i am going to a disciplinary hearing.

      The one handyman that works under me is the big lair, and he got sour grapes, because he was working for the hotel for 2 years at the time, the maintenance manager post went open and was open for about 6 months.

      Then I applied for the vacancy, I got the job and then all the drama started.

      He is telling so much lies to the RDM, and if I do discipline him he runs to the RDM and the GM, turns the stories around so much that I get into

      trouble and the sad part off it all is that they believe him.

      I dont know what to do about him, but i got some fire power for them in that hearing.

    • profile image

      Priya 5 years ago

      Thanks for your suggestion Theo !!

      Now i have to be focused on my work and think positive

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Since you only have to deal with them for two months, you need to suck it up and bear it for a little while. Think of it as a lesson in how NOT to treat people.

      In the mean time, go to your project guide and tell her you are determined to prove to her that you are not the kind of person who "talks rubbish". Tell her that you are focused on your work and you are dedicated to learning everything she is teaching you and ask her for a review of your efforts after the two months are over.

      As for your co-worker, let her know you spoke to your project guide and invite her to work things out with you in person if any issues arise.

      Good luck.

      Theo

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      Priya7 5 years ago from Pune

      I am a project trainee. One of my co-worker who is always jealous of me, lied to my project guide that i speak rubbish about my guide behind her back. Then my guide phoned me and was very angry on me. She is always rude to me and this lie of my co-worker made her behavior more disgusting against me. M depressed,,,,,, plz help me how to deal with these kind of liar and rude people?? i have to tolerate them for 2 months only for my project training period.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Cehck out Undercover Lawyer on HubPages and send him a note. He's one of my "followers".

    • profile image

      sue 5 years ago

      i have been suspended from workfor something i have not done i am not allowed contact so i am prevented from getting my own evidence allegations have been made before by the same group and each time the allagations get worse i have had a meeting today and yet again its a untrue allegation made up and its one of gross misconduct breaching confidentiality i dont think they are going to rest untili am out of there

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      You are welcome.

      Theo

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      Lynn 5 years ago

      Thanks Theo !!!

      I will try to talk with her. The craziest thing happened today..she tried to talk to me like nothing has been going on even trying to crack jokes.... I

      Just did my work and moved a long with a smile

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      You do two things:

      1) Go to your friend and ask her for a moment of her time. Calmly tell her that you realize that she is upset and that you understand why. Tell her that if you thought SHE had gone behind your back to your boss to change work arrangements you would be upset as well. Then tell her that you think there's been a misunderstanding and that you did not go to your boss and that it was completely your boss's idea that you were moved into her spot. Tell her that you are upset that she didn't come to you first, and that you hope she will do so in the future if there is an issue. Ask her if she has any questions or anything else she needs to say. She may need to take some time to think about it, she may defensively argue out of shame and embarrassment, or she may apologize. If she apologizes tell her you would like her to go to your boss to retract her statements. Let her know you will be speaking with your boss to clarify matters as well. No matter what she does next, you will have taken the high road and acted out of integrity.

      2) Go to your boss. Explain the situation and let your boss know you have spoken with your friend about this. Talking to your friend before speaking with your boss will show your boss that you take initiative and are responsible. Ask your boss if she could let your friend know that it wasn't your decision to switch work areas. Also ask your boss if she believes anything of what your friend told her about you and if there is anything she would like cleared up.

      I hope this helped.

      Take care.

      Theo

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      Lynn 5 years ago

      I work in a kitchen my co worker has been there a yr b4 me and always worked in the same are for these yrs. I can work in any area because I like learning new things ... We lost 2 people ( found better paying jobs) so I run around and try to pick up the slack to be a team player ... My boss loves that I'm a hard working and always willing to help anyway that I can ;) anyhow my co worker who I became friends with inside and out of work is very upset that she got moved to another part of the kitchen ( so she can try new things) for a week ... I got put in her spot and this so called friend went to my boss claiming the boss does whatever I want and then tells her I hate working with a few people in which she lied and said I said things I would never say :( she is in her 40's and the first day wouldn't speak to me even with simple work related question the second day she told me " thanks for ruining a good effing thing" I asked her to not speak to me ( didn't want to have an argument with her any further) I'm upset that she lied and also hurt that I thought she was my friend and she right away blames me .... I had no part of my boss making this 1 week change .... Help please

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      It's not for me to edit this, but it does need work.

      Either way, though, I advise strongly to NOT address this issue with a general note. If that is the specific rumour, I would make an appointment with the principal and talk to him/her about the rumour and how it is affecting your reputation. Talk about the issue being a matter of character defamation and slander and a form of harassment. Ask for the principal to intervene. Rumours such as these can destroy a career and you want to address this seriously and professionally, not with a note.

      All the best,

      Theo

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      gaurav 5 years ago

      Thanks for the reply. Here is the note that I want to hand it to the staff.

      It’s better to be public than someone talking behind my back.

      A person is spreading a RUMOR about me that I like to stare at everyone’s boobs. Sorry guys if this has created problem. I wonder how pathetic are they to come up with ideas like this to play with someone’s life.

      Please do not share this rumor with anyone!!! Instead spread the rumor that rumors are not healthy, it hurts!! When they mess with one of us they will mess with all of us!!!

      I have to take this action to challenge the veracity. It’s my rights and also my responsibility to protect myself. You all know that rumors spreads like wildfire… before proving it who, it’s better to stop, before it damages everything, my self-image, physical health, and mental health and many more. As you all are educators I don’t have to explain it more. Mainly this can affect my performance at work. I care about my job and want to do well. Our life is sacred to us, for everyone! So let's respect the life of others and hope they would return the favor.

      Here I am letting you with a beautiful quote.

      “I was smiling yesterday, I am smiling today and I will smile tomorrow, simply because life is too short to cry for anything.”

      Thank you for taking the time to read this note.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      I appreciate you writing but unfortunately I can't really make out from your note what the issue is. The best I can tell is that you believe that someone is spreading a false rumour about you. The rest of what you are trying to tell me is incoherent.

      If this is how you typically write than DO NOT write a note to staff, at least without having someone read it first. If you like, take some time, write down your thoughts more carefully and clearly, have someone review it, and then try again with me. Make sure you include your job position as well as your rumour-spreading coworker's position.

      I know you're upset, but you have to make sure you represent your perspective clearly and professionally in order to be taken seriously by anyone, including me, the supervisor, and the principal.

    • profile image

      gaurav 5 years ago

      I work for a school and my coworkers are talking behind my back. I know exactly who started the rumor, and was caught red handed and she now knows that I know everything about it. She said it indirectly in a conversation that I don't have any proof the prove it. She uses students to compare with me and uses their name to talk about me in the staff-room. she tries to be nice in front of everyone and torches me with made up stories that are related to me in a normal conversation. I don't have any proof to prove it. Even the supervisor who is very close to her also believes her.I don't like to take it to the principal as I am not comfortable discussing the topic with him. I am thinking of writing a note to the staff to not to believe as its not true and to stop the rumor. I am wondering will this affect my job. I don't want to quit the job. What else can I do. Please help me.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Sounds like bluffing to me. I find it astounding that the owner puts up with this nonsense.

      Good luck!

      Theo

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      Rachel 5 years ago

      I have a coworker that never shows up on time, takes extra days off, talks poorly about others to the boss, and gets away with this and a whole lot more. He recently made a statement to myself and others including the owner of the company that he had been recording conversations in the office and said he has hours of employees talking badly about him. I personally don't see how this can be legal, but wanted to find out. I hope he really did do this because each time he has ever been talked about it was because he did or was doing something wrong and many of us had no way to prove it.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Phew! I can tell how upset you are.

      Here's what you need to do: Take a deep breath and then think about how much you want to stay in your job. Forget her for a moment. Do you enjoy your job? Do you want to keep it? Would you prefer to stay rather than work somewhere else? If the answers are "yes", than you need to fight for your job and deal with this situation.

      You deal with it by setting up a meeting with the owner that you have a good relationship with and putting everything out on the table. Go over what you wrote to me, but write it out first in a detailed (and spell checked) time-line format. Outline to the owner your concerns, how they are affecting you, and ask what the owner can do to help resolve this matter with you. You did, after all, comply with proper procedure when you didn't confide in your assistant while the investigation was happening. Tell the owner you have a plan to deal with this (you need to act like a General Manager, and not seem helpless and ineffective) but you want to run it by him/her first and get his/her support.

      You need to know that you have the full support of the owner in dealing with your assistant. Tell him/her that you plan to meet with your assistant and give her the choice of ending her lying or being let go. You have to let the owner know about the missing $1600 and what you plan to do to investigate. Should it be found that your assistant is responsible, she should be let go.

      Don't let your anxiety allow people to bully and intimidate you. Fight for your rights and what belongs to you. Your reputation is something that belongs to you, and you take it where ever you go. Avoidance by running away to another position is NOT the way to go.

      Good luck!

      Theo

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      Alex Campbell 5 years ago

      I JUST NEED HELP!!!

      Here is my story.......

      seven years ago I began serving in a restaurant/bar after 1 month after busting my hump and proving myself and basically being at the right place right time sort of thing I became General Manager. The co-worker I am refrencing too was hire about a month before I was hire and was the bartender then later on was a manager with me. She managed under me for about 3 years with no problems. However about 3 and 1/2 years into my tenure as GM I was not able to resolve issues within my restaurant due to no support from the ownershiper (in example I was not granted funds for repairs etc.) So I stepped down and began bartending when new management came in they treated me poorly so I quit. The co worker in question was fired about month after I quit for "over pouring" behind the bar. Time went on when the owner of this restaurant opened a new location I was offered GM and took it. About a year in the owner decided to rehire the co worker due too the lack of evidence in which she was fired. Now she has been working for me under a year and in the past 2 months loads of issues have arisen. Main issue my assistant (co worker in question) has been accused of physical abuse towards an employee that works under us. This was about a week ago and since then four other employees have stepped forward claiming the same thing. At first I knew that a claim had been made and apparently one of the employees that was a witness and that was questioned about one of the incidents leaked to my assistant that this was going on. She immediatley called me and asked me if it was true now based that we have been working together in total for about five years I felt TERRIBLE that I did not tell her the truth but however I was told that I could not say anything until the investiagation was concluded. I knew that at one point she would find out i knew but i would deal with it then. The whole time this investigation took place she accused me of knowing and not telling her etc. Once she was finally spoken too she was not even told I knew of the investigation she began slandering my name to employees she could trust not only this she also made up lies saying that I party with some of my staff thats why I dont discipline them when they do something wrong (mind you she said I drink with staff members that are not even 21!!!) Now after the owner told me she said these things I immediatley called her because I was confused as to why she would say these things. Knowing that I knew it was her I asked her and she LIED!!!. At this point there are several other issues that have arisen as in 1600$ cash missing etc. I am at the point that I am just going to quit I once thought I could trust this person and now I know WHOLE HEARTIDLY that I cannot. I know with my talents I could go elsewhere and atleast bartend or serve I am just so lost because I feel she is going to say anything to make herself look better even if it means throwing me under the bus with this money missing that I know I did not take. I mean the owner and I have such a solid business relationship that in the past if I ever needed support financially All I needed to do was ask. I just cant tolerate dishonest people and I am already an over anxious person I just feel that I am going to keel over with a stroke because not only is my reputation on the line but my career and I just dont know what I would do if all this experience was too be lost over a two face co worker that I thought was my friend. Sorry for rambling on but I honestly have not slept more than 2 hours a night since this all began I am just so lost.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hi Marilyn,

      I am very familiar with this kind of story. I teach college/university students and am continously taken aback by what seems to be a growing aversion to taking accountability while at the same time feeling entitled to any possible privilege. These same students are always ready to attack when there is even a hint of wrong doing on the part of others. It's tiring and disturbing to the extreme. They do little work for themselves, indulge themselves in anything they can get their selfish greedy little hands on, offer nothing to others, expect everything from others, and seem to have a distorted way of looking at the world. Honesty and accountability are values that appear as foreign to them as decency and hard work.

      I do not believe that your granddaughter was born to lie. She learned how to do it, and she has been allowed to get away with it. Can she help it? At this point it's probably so deeply ingrained in her personality that it's become a habit, or perhaps more accurately, an addiction that she may not even be aware of having. She's learned to take the easy route and she has likely never developed empathy for others.

      How to help her and you? You need to train her. Get her out of your house if she continues this behaviour. Make it very clear to her that the next lie she tells you is her ticket out of your home. These people can only possibly change when they are forced to be accountable and when their lies hurt them. They aren't motivated by realizing that their lies hurt others as they typically don't care and only see others as objects to manipulate anyway. Do yourself a favour, don't get caught up in her sociopathy. Be firm, clear, and then enforce the consequence. That will protect you, your marriage, and your health, and it may be the wake-up call she needs.

      Good luck!

      Theo

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      Db326 5 years ago

      Thank you so much

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Db326

      Well, that is his perogative. He can feel whatever he wants. And it's not surprising that his reaction would be defensive, especially if he tends not to be accountable.

      I can see how you would be worried about losing your job if you hadn't taken the step to meet with your supervisor and the liar. If you hadn't had those meetings than it could be seen as you ganging up on the liar. But, you followed good protocol, and it makes perfect sense for others to be invited to substantiate what you have said privately to your supervisor. You are giving your supervisor more information that s/he needs to actually act on the information you have previously provided. It is important that your supervisor is made to understand that it is not just you because that shows it is NOT personal but rather organizational. It is actually your responsibility that the liar be revealed for what he is, and that other employees have the opportunity to be heard as their morale and performance would have been affected by the liar as well.

      If your supervisor has an issue with you inviting other employees to come forward, tell her/him that it is not personal on your part, but purely professional. You are merely doing what it best for the organization and giving the liar an opportunity to hear the impact he has on others and either come clean or understand that he isn't a good fit.

      I hope that helps.

      Theo

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      Marilyn 5 years ago

      Hi Mr. Selles,

      Thank you for your enlightening website. I have just had my first rude awakening with a compulsive liar. Unfortunately, she is my granddaughter who is living with my husband and me while she finishes a college degree. I have observed her in several little lies, all delivered for the purpose of avoiding responsibility for something. For example, when she first moved in and started her junior year, she actually asked one of her classmates to provide her with a copy of the test she was to take the next day! The classmate told the instructor, and granddaughter was called in, informed that she would have to take a zero on the test, and if she was ever caught trying to cheat again, she would be expelled. She INSISTED that the junior college she had just graduated from allowed cheating! "The teachers all knew that we were cheating and they even didn't try to stop it. It was understood that everyone could cheat." Hubby called her on this, but she never backed down. A few days ago, she gave me a silly story to get out of being responsible for some big dirty spots on the towels in her bathroom. I laughed at the story, but believed her. A few days later, she called me on the carpet for laughing at her! "Grandma, I don't like to be laughed at," said repeatedly and very pointedly. Today I figured out exactly what had happened, and had proof of it, so I confronted her, explaining that the towels had washed up as good as new, so it had been unnecessary for her to make up the silly story. Woops! Wrong thing to say! She INSISTED that she had not lied. Hubby had told me this would happen, but I want her to know that a job or a relationship can both be destroyed by lying.

      This girl's father, our son-in-law, is the most dishonest person I have ever met, and everyone knows it, including our granddaughter. He will go to his dying day absolutley refusing to admit that he has EVER lied, and he lies even when he doesn't have to. Our granddaughter was poster child for ADHD as a child, and is still a risk taker, talks 100 miles per hour, and is a know-it-all, just like her dad. Is it possible that people are born to lie? And they just can't help it? And there is nothing anyone can do to help them?

    • profile image

      Db326 5 years ago

      Yes, that is correct. unfortunately my supervisor is not helpful. I have met with both mt supervisor and the "liar" over four times since october. We have had discussions about his lyong and in general, accountability. Now that other employees are coming forward, he is feeling "mobbed"

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      I nee to clarify a few things before I answer.

      Are you saying you are the supervisor of these other people and are they members of your team along with him?

      Theo

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      Db326 5 years ago

      Theo, I work with a liar and in an attempt to prove its not a personal conflict I asked others who have come to me as a supervisor to document their own concerns about this person. He is now saying I am having others gang up on him. Any advice? I am now in fear of losing my job

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Thank you, Geek.

      The part about the client complaining about being threatened by one of the witches is a bit unclear. Who said "oh don't you remember that you said this to her in from of me" and what relevance does this have?

      If you hear from a client that she was threatened by someone from your organization you need to document this and in this case you need to pass that information on to your boss who can then choose to follow up on this or not. This is especially true if, as I surmise, you work in the health care industry.

      It sounds like your boss is aware of the Witch issues which is a great thing. You need to tell your boss about the specific incident but then also have a conversation with her about your concern overall about losing everything ("job, license and everything").

      If their behavior in this field is unethical, you can protect yourself by offically filing a complaint with your boss, in both written and verbal format (documentation, now and in the future, is CRITICAL). Frame your conversation with your boss as being about ethics and prevention of harm to your clients, yourself, your boss, and your organization to prevent it from seeming about not liking your co-workers. Keep it focused on ethics and refer to governing body standards, if any apply. Follow up with your boss about "next steps" that will be taken to protect everyone involved. And keep doing what you are doing in not giving the witches any ammunition to twist and use against you.

      I hope that helps.

      Theo

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      geekgirl00 5 years ago

      Great article!

      I have worked for 6 years with 2 other master manipulators who are liars and they are abusive. They both are dishonest about everything taking credit for the work they never did or they just don't do the work. If I could not attend a meeting the one witch would say "oh tell me your ideas so I can tell everyone at the meeting"

      They also tried to say I was falsifying time sheets, abusive to others and that I was stealing.

      The other witch who is senile would pass medications and make mistakes and blame me for them and since she used to work as an RN and they believed her until she got caught and realized she could not do that anymore.

      My boss at the time bought into it hook, line and sinker

      I now have a new boss but recently a client complained that one of the witches threatened her well being (yes she did do that) and then she said to me oh don't you remember that you said this to her in from of me and the other witch as I sure the dementia witch would go along with it because she can hardly remember her name or how to drive. I told her she was full of crap and I never said that, she backed down I told my new boss who realizes what kind of games the witches play. The senile witch has attempted to ruin my new boss several times unsuccessfully. I could have lost everything I have worked for my job, license and everything. I do not talk to them except about basic things. My boss does her best but I fear these witches. Their behavior in this field is unethical and wrong. what can I do to protect myself?

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hi Perceptive,

      Thanks for the note and for reading.

      Good luck.

      Theo

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hi Jim,

      Thanks for writing.

      I think whether you talk about this issue at the management meeting depends on a number of factors. First of all, do you want to repair your relationship with your boss? I found it confusing to hear that while you say your boss harasses you unbearably, you also say you have a good working relationship with him. If you wish to repair your relationship, I'd advise you not to bring the topic up in the meeting, but advise him that you were thinking of doing so and would do so at the next meeting if he did not resolve his issues with you. If you bring it up without prior conversation at the meeting, he will very likely feel ambused and your relationship could be damaged beyond repair.

      Second, it depends on whether you wish to stay at the company. If so, do you believe that your future would be enhanced if you brought this issue up at the meeting? In other words, would your boss's bosses respect you for what you did? Would they believe and support you? If so, what would you expect to happen with you and your current boss? Would he still remain your boss, and if so, what would it be like working with him?

      Here's what I suggest: Your company likely has an anti bullying/harassment policy. If so, familiarize yourself with it and follow its protocol. If your company doesn't have a policy, ask HR what the procedure is for you to follow, then follow it. It likely would involve you telling your boss that you feel harassed, what the harassment is, and that it needs to stop. You also would tell him what the next step would be if he didn't. You document this latest issue and tell him that this is an example of harassment. If he responds positively then the problem is solved. If not, move to next steps which likely involves HR and or your boss's superiors.

      I get the importance of the truth and the desire to openly tell it and expose your boss in this meeting. But if you don't go through steps with him prior to doing so, you might come across as an undermining insubordinate ambusher who can't be trusted, even if they think what your boss did was wrong.

      However, if the topic comes up in the meeting, I think it would be completely appropriate to say that you were told by your boss that people told him that you announced the termination and that you are disturbed by this falsehood and would like to understand how such a rumour started. But be calm and responsive about this rather than initiate it as an attack which makes you look like you have a personal vendetta against your boss. In other word, don't start the proceedings with a statement, but if the topic comes up, then you can respond with your concerns and ask for help resolving them.

      Does that help?

      Theo

    • profile image

      Perceptive101 5 years ago

      I realize that it is my boss who is a liar. I am trying not to confront it directly because what the article says about speaking with them about it alone is spot on. Each time I have tried I just became more vulnerable. I am trying to make a safe exit. This article and comments is helpful.

    • profile image

      Jim 5 years ago

      I have a boss that continues to harrass me and make false accusations just to get under my skin. Tomorrow, we have our normal management meeting with HR. My boss has already been question by his boss on integrity and moral issues at work. I have a good working relationship with my boss, but the mental harassment is unbearable.

      Friday night (I work night shift and my boss was off), he called me and said he had recevied several phone calls from Team Members that I was going around saying announcing the termination of a recent Team member (which is False, I didn't know he had been terminated until my boss called me).

      Should I take this opportunity tomorrow in the meeting with HR and the big bosses to make a statement and say what happened and ask my boss to provide the names of the team members who called him so we can take "corrective action" for them spreading false and malicious rumors (which is a major violaton of our company policy) and we could call them in while we have everyone together. See, I don't believe anyone called and he will be forced to either produce the names and when/if he does not, this will confirm and prove to our KEY management how my boss has been intimidating and mentally harassing/bullying me. It's a gamble, but I know I didn't do this.....and the people in the room already know my boss's integrity is suspect, this will just drive the point on home. This will harm my relationship with my boss. Please help me? Should I take this risk?

      Thanks!

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      You are welcome.

      Good luck.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Samy 5 years ago

      Hi theo. I am writing you from my I phone. This the 1st time I have used it to do this. Plus, it was late in the morning and was so upset and confused. I didn't get much of sleep the last couple of nights because unfairness at my work. Thanks for the constructive criticism, may be I needed to hear that from stranger rather people I work with. Some of them have say something at my presence and another with my boss. I appreciate you taking the time let me venge out and to revisit with in my self. I have been strong enough to deal with issues before and so capable of doing it again. ThAnks Theo

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hi,

      Honestly, I can't really understand much of what you have written. I don't know if part of your coworker and manager's issues with you have to do with difficulties with communication, organization, and general sloppiness, but I suspect it's possible.

      This is a professional forum. If you take as little time to think and review how you present and conduct yourself at work as you have done here, your manager may indeed have a point when she tells you to take ownership.

      Take a good long hard look at what and how you have written. Review your spelling, grammar, sentence structure, and apparently random use of capital letters. Then take a good hard look within and think about what you may be doing to contribute to your problems at work.

      I'm sorry this wasn't what you hoped to hear, but I suspect it's something you needed to.

      Take care,

      Theo

    • profile image

      SamySWamy 5 years ago

      Hey theo my boss is ki

      nd of new and gives me verbal report to improve my team work.well I hardly see her may be twice a

      month. Hi and how are you as she walks by. I have Asked her to give me spicifics What I need to improve about my team work but she sAys,your team doesn't percieve you as team player.only perception and you called your assistant away from duty when you could have done it yourself. I love my job and have no problems with people I work with Except 2 charge nurses that can't stand my confidence And not stooping down to their ignorance and hatred because I don't suck up on them. Thanks for your time. This cheap and false accusations are stressing me at work and At home.when I explain my position my manager said I should take ownership for my coworkers perception and stop arguing. I am frustrated

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      That sounds like a wise plan. I have a Hub follower (Undercover Lawyer) who might be able to offer some legal guidance as well.

      Good luck!

      Theo

    • Portland ShoeGirl profile image

      Portland ShoeGirl 5 years ago

      Dear Theo,

      I've struggled with this issue for several years. Each time I'd try to call her on her deceptions she would become very aggressive. I need to make a plan, with a timeline to nip this in the bud or fire her. My only concern is how she bad mouthed her last employer, tells me that she will do the same to us. I feel legal advice might be in order, perhaps have a severance package with a non-disclosure document (to prevent her from calling clients to undermine us) is in order. Having that in hand will shift the power back to me.

      I'll let you know people can change, or if I need to change people.

      Thanks,

      PDX ShoeGirl

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      My first response was, "Fire her!". But I imagine it comes down to whether you feel she has value and whether she is worth the effort it would take to rehabilitate her. It does seem to make sense to document instances from now on and bring them to her attention when they occur. If you do so over a period of time she may find it difficult to deny her issues. She may be suffering from a personality disorder and she may require professional help. Showing her that she has a problem may be what she needs in order to take that step. If, on the other hand, she continues to be a problem and doesn't acknowledge her issues, you need to let her go. If that's your choice, at least you'll have documentation showing that you brought issues to her attention so she can't claim wrongful dismissal.

      Be very careful, though, about how much time you invest in one troublesome employee. You might spend so much time and energy on her that you neglect the positive employees who may end up feeling that their efforts aren't recognized. And it is true that one bad apple can spoil the whole barrel. Someone like her can have a devastating impact on organizational morale.

      Deal with her directly, firmly, and clearly. Make it very clear what the negative behaviour is, what is expected of her to change, and what are the consequences for not doing so. Make a nonnegotiable timeline as this energy draining and destracting situation cannot continue.

      Can liars change? Read my Hub, "Can people change?" and let me know what you think.

      I hope this helps.

      Theo

    • Portland ShoeGirl profile image

      Portland ShoeGirl 5 years ago

      Help! Can a liar change?

      I've been snowed by an employee for over five years. I would catch her lying over stupid things to cover her slacking, lack of skills, or mistakes. She has never said I'm sorry about a thing. She lies over things no adult lies about so it took me a long time to catch on. By the time I realize she was untruthful I can't go back and bring it up... it would create more issues than solutions. She is upbeat, and good with clients... but the lies are making me really crazy. It is like dealing with a 15 yr old, not a woman in her 40's. HELP.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Thanks Drew,

      Sadly a familiar story. I hope you and your coworkers will rally around each other to protect against this poison.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Drew 5 years ago

      I went through hell at work last yr with a crazy coworker. He spread lies to any one who would listen. Told everyone that I am racist and much more. Thank god he retired or so I thought. Now that he has retired he found some one at work to continue where he left off. It is sad that this guy has retired and still has found a way to continue harassing me. He has even turned people against me who I thought where good friends. These guys are masters at bullying and there is no point in arguing with them as they just reload and twist any thing I say.The problem isn't even me . They are actually after my coworkers who I am friends with If they are mad at some one you are not permitted to be friends with them and If you are you end up where I am today.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hi Melissa,

      Well, it sounds like you've hit on the crux of the matter: the powers that be figure that the money she brings in outweighs the trouble she causes. You may have to come to terms with the reality that they believe she has more value than you do.

      Read the responses I made just previously regarding self care, sick leave, and proper documentation. Ask yourself if you have done everything you can to let the owners know how much this is impacting you and the organization. Have you and your coworkers shown a united front about this to management? Is there a conflict resolution program or workplace health and safety policy dealing with bullying to fall back on?

      If the owners really do value her that much then it might be best for you to take your sales skills elsewhere if possible. Find out what legal protection you have from being bullyed (contact a hub follower of mine, "Undercover Lawyer" for employment law advice). She does not have the right to bully you from a job that you love, regardless of your organization's policies or lack thereof.

      Hope this helps.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Melissa 5 years ago

      Ive worked in sales for 15 years at this store. 6 years ago a women was hired who has been stealing my clients and taking my comision. Ive gone to managers, owners and no one will help me. One manager confided in me and told me the owner wont do anything as long as she brings in good numbers and makes them money.I and other employees have tried for years to just have something done. This women lies, manipulates and bullys anyone in her path or me when I stand up to her. Again, nothing changes.I truly love my job, my co- workers and manager. I feel such anxiety and stress that I can't sleep and I'm having panic attacks. I'm now on med's to help. Please help me get through to the GM and the owners and just once have them listen to me, us and make her stop. I think their afraid of her themselves but again, love the money she brings them...

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      You are welcome.

      One of my Hub "Followers" goes by the name of Undercover Lawyer. Connect with him. He might be able to help your friends. And, they can always ask me whatever questions they have.

      All the best.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Sandee 5 years ago

      Thanks Theo!! I will show your comments to my co worker friends. I just wish I can help them more and wondering if theres a lawyer who will take the case. As for me....I already have a case and have my lawyers. My case is that they discriminated against my handicap, denied promotion, denied raise, denied for another job, I did a lot of work and got no credit for it, trained people, did special projects that no one has the skills, coerced, promised me bonus.....its a long list. As of me and my co worker friends....its not easy finding another job in Illinois. Theo, I wish I could ask you a lot more questions to help my friends because they are also suffering and its not fair for them.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hi Sandee,

      Good question. The sad truth is that the good "guy" doesn't always win.

      You document for a few reasons, firstly for your own protection. Sure, you might be able to show with your documentation that you are telling the truth and the liar is lying, and in an ideal world, management then removes the liar. However, that does not always happen and in that situation you document in case the lying snake sours management on you and you are let go unfairly. Then you can sue for wrongful dismissal and you can refer to specific incidents that occurred as well as your attempts to resolve them. It would look bad for your organization if they were to let you go after you tried to resolve conflict and brought issues to their attention.

      Your organization may make allowances for bad behaviour, but that doesn't mean they can get away with not protecting you from harassment and a toxic work environment. Documenting and consulting with an employment lawyer is a good approach to take, hopefully before things come to a head between you, the snake, and the organization.

      Documentation is also very helpful to bring to your doctor in case you need to take sick leave due to the snake. Incidently, sometimes higher management and Human Resources really only pay attention when people are forced to go off work as that represents a major cost to the organization. It doesn't look good for the snake if s/he has herim's reports going of on sick leave because they can't deal with herim. Consider the value of your health over the importance of your job. If you go on sick leave, only come back under a specific "return to work" transition plan that includes management dealing with the snake manipulation issues.

      Document, educate yourself about your workplace rights, and consider your health. If no one at work seems to be inclined to protect you, consider leaving for another job (easier said than done, I know) but don't allow yourself to be bullied. There are laws and you have rights. In the mean while, stay true to your values, don't get pulled down to snake level, and do your job as best you can unless you feel your job is making you sick. If that's the case, consider sick leave BEFORE you get physically ill.

      Hope that helps.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Sandee 5 years ago

      I have the same problem at work. My manager is very manipulative, liying and narcistic person. As reading every comments here, "document", document" and ect. If I document everything, then what? Higher manager, Human Resources, District Controller, or any higher person.....they all sided with the snake manager. Then what should I do?

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hello,

      I am assuming that you have documented this person's lies and misrepresentations, and that you have presented them to management. And since everyone knows about him you had no problem gaining corroboration. Apparently management still feels he has some value - more value to keep than to lose. Maybe management needs to review that position and you can help them do it.

      Make a business case about how his behaviour is impacting the organization. Meet with your manager and talk about this issue, not from a personal, emotional perspective, but from a "big picture" point of view. Talk about the value of the people who have left and the cost of replacing them, and how they have brought their talent elsewhere, perhaps to competitors. Talk about how your organization's credibility and reputation will continue to suffer as the lies continue and are inevitably uncovered. Talk about decreased morale and the impact of that on productivity. Talk about the legal costs should people file lawsuits if they feel their reputation and good name has slandered by his lies. Talk about the cost to the organization of people going on stress leaves because of his impact on them in poisoning the work place. You could also direct management to this resource to educate them: http://www.snakesinsuits.com/

      I do think it is wise of you in the meantime to look for other work in case this does not go well. Hopefully if you are valued management will do what it takes to keep you and to protect your organization from him before he does further damage. Be careful, though, as the person you describe usually has managed to weasel his way to the top pretending successfully to be someone he is not.

      I hope this helps and I wish you well.

      Theo

    • profile image

      amResearch 5 years ago

      Hello,

      Thank you for this forum, I have been desperate to find ways to deal with a very difficult co-worker. From everything I have read he seems to be a pathological and manipulative liar. He continuously lies about his past, education background and expertise to people both inside and outside of the organization including the media. The lies appear to be getting larger and they recently began attacking my reputation. It is a chronic behavior and I am not the only target. One minute he will engage in disingenuous banter and as soon as the person leaves the attacks begin. The new lies appear to be meant to cut out my contributions in order to inflate his girlfriend. Interviews with the media claiming to have done work previously published by others within the organization are the most recent examples. In the past week he has tried to insert himself into duties and responsibilities that have been assigned to me in order to control the situation. He has asked to meet with me multiple times via email but has yet to come and speak with me. Instead, he has assigned his subordinate to do the job assigned to me in parallel. This kind of thing has happened before has created confusion on important aspects of a big project.

      It is comforting to know that virtually everyone in the organization knows that this individual and his girlfriend misrepresent and lie for their own gain while accomplishing little. However, management has done little to control the situation even after numerous meetings with HR. He claims he is misunderstood and trying, then reverts back to the same behavior. Employees with similar issues have recently left the organization because of these individuals. . I have been applied for other jobs because I feel like there are no options left. Are there any steps I can take rather than just leaving the situation?

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Hello Naeem,

      Trying to reading your letter led me to understand how the wording in your letter of grievance (if that is what you meant) may indeed have been inappropriate. Your letter to me is very unclear, let alone full of spelling errors. For example, I'm not sure if you are saying that the four reasons given for the misconduct did not happen or if you are saying they are insufficient reasons for a finding of misconduct. To me, if you actually engaged in those behaviours, a finding of misconduct would not be unreasonable.

      If I were you I would read the last letter I wrote in this forum and then go to your supervisor and tell her/him that you wish to take responsibility for your part in this situation. I'm not saying that your supervisor is necessarily blameless, but perhaps if you showed leadership in taking accountability for your actions, he/she would as well. I am suggesting this assuming that you would like to try to save your job. Start with you, and perhaps others will follow.

      All the best,

      Theo

    • profile image

      Naeem H 5 years ago

      Hello i am i the process of being sacked a a number of co workers have lied to get me sacked. it all started when i put a grievence against a supervisor due to the fact the way she speaks to me and the way she shouts. Even her partner who is the assistance manager has lied.

      Been suspended for that last 3 weeks and have got 5 points of gross misconduct.

      1) refusing to shake a staff members hand

      2) faling to comply to a reasonable task

      3) Saying that i am refusing to speak and ignoring supervisor (form of bullying)

      4) Letter in my wording was inappropraite ( in which have stated was wrong) No swearing or abuse, just stated supervisor is lying.

      Dont know whaat to do anymore ??

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Every once in a while I will receive a letter reminding me that the people who write me with complaints may not be entirely blameless themselves. This is one of them. You may not like to read what follows, but I feel obliged to share this with you. Take it any way you like.

      You may indeed be encountering injustice at work, but the abrupt manner with which you addressed me and the rather incoherent message that you provided tells me that you may be responsible for generating hostility towards you. You are a supervisor. You are in charge of directing people. There is NO way that you should be presenting yourself in this manner. If you do so with me, I wonder how you are with the staff whom you supervise. In this case, I'm sorry to say, I advise you to look very closely inward for the causes of your distress. I can see how your staff would have difficulty with you if you communicate with them in any way similar to how you communicated to me. Frankly, I felt hostile reading your message, and I don't even know you, let alone have to work with you.

      I know this is likely not the sympathetic and supportive reply you wanted or expected to hear, but I do hope you will find it helpful.

      Theo

    • profile image

      alison 5 years ago

      I work in a hospital for 12 years now, i work in a constant hostile department,i supervise, My problem is staff cannot not be spoken to or carnt be bothered to do their work. My boss pulls me on everything down to doing overtime which i dont do that often. But other members of staff whom do 50/60 overtime in a month are never pulled in. I am a strong person that does stick to the rules as i know that if i didn't i would be pulled in the office about. I have been off work for alot of weeks as i was set up with some rotas and my friend lied saying that i asked her to change a rota . Then i find evidence suggesting that my boss had put i was not happy with rota changes.I am being taken to a disciplinary for acting inappropriately as we had words. The statements make out i am some kind of terrible person with the lies. My manager wants me to be sacked and denies anything that she has said to you. She has accused me in the past of coming in drunk and was going to suspend me but never as she said i was so good at my job. I am so upset with the statements that i have read i dont know weather to give up and resign. In the past she did nothing about my shoes/clothes/money/a4 piece of paper with magazine cuttings on get a job somewhere else you bitch/ sympathy card pushed through my letterbox/ personal file going missing/dog poo at my back door. Nothing has happened or did about that.

    • Theo Selles profile image
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      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Brilliant! Thanks, Rich.

      Theo

    • profile image

      Rich Rivera 5 years ago

      Hi, I am amazed at all the stories. I actually thought that i was the only one dealing with this situation. I can go on and on about all the problems I have dealt with for the past two years out of my 8 years in my organization. Taking credit for work that the person never worked on , stealing ideas that he did not think of , and the best is barking orders because he knows he's found out. All i have to say is that it took me some time to shed light of the situation by working carefully and watching my every move . I informed many people of the situation and i would beat him to the punch before I would tell him about my success stories. He would run to the hire ups to fill them inn with what he had accomplished and they finally realized that everything he was doing was not of his own. I will not let him take me down . It is stressful having to work with eyes behind my back but to tell you the truth there are worst things i can be going through. I am a believer and i had a great support group behind me. This still continues but I am not letting it beat me. Expose it Expose it Expose it is my medicine for the disease.

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      You are very welcome.

      I hope things turn out well for you.

      Theo

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      dmayer 5 years ago

      Thank you for your comments. They make sense and I will follow your counseling. In the mean time, as of last night the firing was not a real one. Time will tell what the doctor will do.

      Again, thank you!

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 5 years ago

      Well, is she still at the office, or was the firing a real one?

      What is important here is that you do not react to her in any way. Don't get defensive and don't emote. Stay calm and simply repeat the truth. Leave it to the doctor to decide who is more credible. If she is still there and she continues to make up stories, simply go to the relevant person in that story and ask them if what you've heard is true. Ultimately you can't stop her from either lying or denying, and you can't convince anyone to believe you. In fact the more convincing you do, the less believable you appear. Simply state the truth calmly and matter of factly, and then let it go leaving it to the world to either believe you or not. Do not get caught up in her drama. Be truthful, calm, and live with yourself well.

      Hope that helps.

      Theo

    • profile image

      dmayer 5 years ago

      I work with a hygienist who has always, what I'll call "double talks." Over the holiday our office has been working with skeleton crews. She came in 12/28 asking if she's scheduled to work and proceeds to say the doctor told her before levaing on vacation he was not coming back and there is no money left. Well, at that time I could barely hold back my laughter at the absurdity of her comment! As she stood there I dialed up the doctor's cell phone and left a v/m with the "news" I just received. Last night, after work hours, the doctor asked me to stay there while he spoke to the hygienist to relieve her of her position with the practice. I was dumbstruck as she began pointing at me saying I yelled at her and she denied and turned everything as though I was the one that made the ludicrous comment!...

      I was dumbfounded and hoping to find some resolve out in the virtual world. Help!

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 6 years ago

      I think you need to let your boss know that you will be following his advice. Tell him you and your colleagues will leave it to him to ask you for the details and reasons leading to your decision.

      As for this fellow manager undermining you in front of other people, I think you need to very clearly and directly in the moment and in front of these witnesses let him know that what he is doing is inappropriate and that you will not be accepting his behaviour. Do this every time and document what happens. This way you can back up your story should it come to your boss's attention. Your colleagues should do the same.

      Theo

    • profile image

      doloresumbridge 6 years ago

      I work with a manager (same level as me) who is the production manager. He constantly undermines me in front of other colleagues, he stirs trouble for other colleagues (general comments about how they're 'doing his head in') and generally lies about anything he talks about. Sounds like an exageration I know!

      He is not performing well in his job but to make sure the business doesn't suffer my other colleagues cover for him and arrange everything that he should be sorting out.

      my boss obviously doesn't realise as everything is running as it should. A comment was made to my boss some time ago with his response being do your own job, let him do his and if he's not doing it it'll be obvious. However none of us will let the business suffer as a result of his general apathy.

      He is keen to work hard on special projects but not so keen to get stuck into the nitty gritty of every day manufacturing.

      To top this off he has defrauded the company (my boss is aware of this and has confronted him and this incident has been dealt with)in the past and i suspect this is still going on (to a certain degree).

      Any advice would really be appreciated. It's causing a lot of resentment in the office (and the shopfloor) and it's unfair that one person is letting the rest of us down so badly.

    • Theo Selles profile image
      Author

      Theo Selles 6 years ago

      You are welcome. The fact that she could provide you with no examples should be documented.

      Good luck.

      Theo