Seems it would be but then of course the heart can die and the soul doesn't but still don't you think somehow they are connected? (Image-fineartamerica.com)
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You had me right up to us all going to the same place. That is some wishful and dangerous thinking.
K&T, Mat. 15:19 is a good reason not to believe that the soul resides in the heart, although there are some dark souls out there.
MizJabbers.thank you for sharing that scripture.
Jackie the bible is clear and tells the truth.
,Da 12:2 And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt
All have everlasting life not to same place. Rev 21:8 Matt 25:46- II Thes 1:9 Mark 9:43 Jude 1:7 Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Jackie the words said are misunderstood.
I Tell you today you will be with me.
Jesus was saying I tell you on this day , you will be with me in Paradise. It was a promise in the future , he would be under Jesus Administration as King or Ruler.
Paradise is not Heaven, no Christian could go to Heaven before Jesus.
Thank you Jackie you really understand,
The good people declared by God , like King David when he died was not in heaven.but awaiting the resurrection as many .
David of of BCE, was acknowledged not to be in heaven in CE after Christ. Notce.
No we have not finished with resurrections or judgments yet, of course not. Whether we will be in the third heaven with God I do not know but I do know we have heavenly promise and will be in New Jerusalem with Jesus.
Jackie all are not promised to go to the Heavenly realm , Jesus made a covenant with his deciples. Notice it was only the 12 then Judas left. 11, the rest of them have been picked through out generations. Did the disciples pick themselves? No,
Oh, so you are saying only 144,000 are going to heaven? Did you know 144,000 is the number of the 12 tribes of Israel?
Yes that was the original plan of Jews.
But they voided out their opportunity when they killed Jesus.
Now it is called spiritual Isreal. Made up with the same number , but mixed people of all nations and tribe, tongues. A substitute.
I would be very afraid to change God's word & when He says forever He doesn't void it out, His word is truth & we never have to worry He will change His mind or we would sure be in trouble wouldn't we? It is near their time as our comes to an
Jackie I did not change any word of truth, the promise was made to Israel but it did not say they had to be fleshly, they are now Isreal but in the spirit not flesh.
His promise kept.
I would have to have scripture for that. I have studied the bible all my life for myself not taking anyone's word since I was grown and the Holy Spirit leads me in my studies and I feel sure I go by the word of God and nothing else.
Jackie sorry for late response but this day has been a busy one for me .I am now just reading your replies, I enjoy sharing scriptures and knowledge, thank you for your time. I will keep in touch.
Ah, never heard of this and had no idea the Catholics believed that about Mary. I do know that is what America was all about though, escaping the Catholic religion for Christians who wanted to worship their own way.
Jackie as you can see from scriptures there will be righteous people on the earth forever
That is why there is two folds the Heavenly, and the earthly.
The point now there is only a selected view
For the Government position of Jesus rulership.
K & T, I don't understand what is meant by " the Government position of Jesus' rulership". Please explain.
Happy to explain this MizJabbers,
Joh 18:36Jesus answered: “My Kingdom(Government) is no part of this world. If my Kingdom(Government) were part of this world, my attendants (Angels)would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews.
Thanks, I see the connection now.
You are welcome !
I sort of do too since I believe our souls were before we were born but the heart as I say is the organ for love or hate it seems, but then the brain would have to come into too. It is an interesting thing to contemplate.
Sorry for the type ...meant heart of course. Yes, the mind and heart play a huge role, but the soul is its own being I believe?
Faith, I believe so too. I think that it is the essence of our godspirit that lives on after the body dies and contains our experiences. I could never convince my atheist father of that, though.
Yes, the heart and brain are flesh; the soul has to be spirit but of course we know there is bound to be much more to it than we can ever understand in this life.
I appreciate your thoughts on this whatever they are. I think the mind & brain would be the same. I think the soul can live alone but will have a form after our resurrection from the dead. Some did not recognize Jesus but I think they saw a man.
I like your answer, Jackie. The mind is the intellect that runs the brain. The soul is a collection of experiences and moves on after the body dies. Otherwise why would the soul go to heaven after the heart dies?
Thanks MizB; I guess at our age we believe what we believe. lol I like your explanation and that the heart does die but the soul lives forever.
MizJabber that has been a man's doctrin for a long time that people go to heaven after death, I once believed this as well
But When Jesus was here he awaken his friend Lazarus , Lazerus had not been in heaven after he died he was still in his tomb.
I believe there was something about Lazarus being dead less than three days so the spirit had not left his body and Jesus arose on the third day letting us know He had been dead three days so it was not like Lazarus' death.
Jackie Jesus quoted these scriptures ,
Joh 3:13 "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man "(Jesus).
Jesus said no human had been to heaven.
What about the good people like King David Job, others
Was that before He died? While He was on the cross he told the thief he would be with Him that day in paradise so possibly that day was the day Jesus preached to the dead? Jesus now is at the right hand of God. Rev 5:7 Heb12:2 Luke 22:69 Matt 26:64.
You mention Lazarus, what did she tell Jesus, Joh 11:24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” she did not say her brother was in heaven
She knew about the resurrection hope.
At John 5:29.
Such beauty in Civil discourse. On one mind yet saying it a bit differently. We are blessed to share the mind. Blessed to share the heart. Blessed to share our souls. I don't see a soul dying. Where they go on day 3 is a mystery. I am glad of it.
What did God promise these men? He promised they would inherit the earth. What were we promised? To be the bride of Christ & rule & reign with Him. Every scripture is not to us directly; especially in the old testament.
Lu 22:28“However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials;
Lu 22:29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,
Judas was dismissed before he created this covenant.
144,000 is limited
Clearly we did not stick with Jesus through His trials so He is not speaking to us there. Many people have a problem seeing that God's chosen is the Jew. We came in at a late date & got crumbs from the table & what a blessing but we replace n
Jackie true the Jews was selected first , but they lost their favor when they killed Jesus.
Mt 21:43This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.
The Jews are not anymore.
Jackie help me out here. You are saying that Christ is Son of God but that the Jews are favored over all others? Kind of a Jews for Jesus thing? I just am having trouble with the dual paradigm. Please explain.
Eric I was just trying to show Jackie from scriptures this,
point.Ac 15:14 Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.
The Jews lost their position.
Ezekiel 36:24-28 I will take you from all nations, gather you back to your own land."Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, & you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all filthiness & from all your idols." Will give U new heart of "flesh"
Ezekiel is old testement , that was when they had not done the unforgivable. Jesus had not arrived.
Ok Jackie that answers none of my simple questions. You need to stop quoting and start thinking. God gave us brains just like hearts and souls.
The tribes are different if you notice ,
Numbers 1 chapter of names to
Re 7:4; 14:1, 4.
Chapter of names.
You will see they are different because the list in Revelation is spiritual made up of all nations of people.
No Eric I use scripture for truth that I want; I don't want to just make up a good story when it comes to God's word because He has a big warning about that and I take it very serious. Lest it be added to us or taken from us.
The truth is that I was raised to believe if I was good I would go to heaven.
I was told this by clergy and familiy ,but what I read was the truth.
Yes 144,000 will go for a Job, but other will be benefactors of the Goverment of Jesus.
no self pi
I don't know why so many people who say they are Christian have a problem with that Eric. What does it hurt us? We are very lucky the Jew rejected Jesus or there would have been no us. "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper who love the
Jackie I am happy with the truth I learned, I do not have a heavenly hope to rule with Jesus he did not pick me. But 144,000 others, the point and truth is earth will be like heaven and we can look forward to that wonderful promise take care Jackie.
Y'all keep quoting the Roman censored bible. Can you not listen to what your own soul is telling you? Is Roman propaganda all you can quote?
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness. If God allows it to exist it serves a purpose.
Oh, brother, and your Jehovah's Witness emphasis on the 144,000 souls is a misguided reference to the number of original souls who inhabited the earth.
Ms Jabbers. Can you prove your point without name calling religion, who told you what you believe is correct. So far we are living in the 21century our language is not King James dialect.And the scriptures use
Are translations from Hebrew and Greek
I don't have to call names, we all know where the emphasis on the 144,000 misrepresentation came from. It doesn't matter which translation was used, the Council of Nicea decided which books were accepted into the bible.
Ms Jabbers this counsel was created after the death of Jesus AD, already the Jews Had killed him, they replaced the scrolls with their own doctrines and tried to erase the work Jesus did
But what they did not know copies of the real scrolls existed
You don't have a home with Jesus and you are happy? I think I would read the original book if I were you for no one has salvation without Jesus and there is only an earthly promise to the Jews. Of those two things I am sure. And Hell; of course.
Jackie my home is where Jesus and Jehovah make it as stated ,
Mt 5:5“Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
I am happy.
As stated where? Do you go by the Holy Bible or one man changed to suit his purposes? I use King James & know they are all translated & we have to do the best we can. I use a Zondervan along with it because it gives variations to clarify. Lov
Ro 8:23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom.
Adoption is key word.
Tim, I think the soul could be tapping at the window lattice (heart). Soul tries to speak to us and guide us, along with our spirit guides, but most of us are too busy expressing our desires to accept what the soul tells us we need.
Jackie notice Ac 2:34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand.
This was after Jesus death.
So David along with countless generations are soon to experience the resurrection hope
I am not disagreeing with you; I am just saying I do not think it has happened yet. God Himself may have some in Heaven but they would not be considered Christian or part of the Church.
The point of why people are not in heaven even if they are close to God
, is that there is a set time to return their life back .but here on earth not heaven.
Mt 6:10 Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.
I agree we pray God's Will be done on earth as in Heaven but I know Jesus is coming for the Church soon & while all this fighting is playing out on earth we the bride will be getting ready to marry our Groom to return with Him to the earth. 1 bod
Jackie we have had a wonderful chat , but please consider this scripture, Joh 10:16“And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
...sounds like the old testament foretelling the bride and bridegroom to come to me....
Jackie that is Jesus talking in the New Testament , book of John.
I wasn't paying attention and since it was Joh you said I just assumed Old Test. Sorry. So that was before the church wasn't it? Then it would have to be the Jews and Gentiles (who was everyone not Jew).
Jackie you are correct about the Jews and Gentiles , but notice they all will be his sheep together ,(all races or nations )
But the key word is ( FOLD) why are they in different folds when they all are his sheep ?
In my opinion from my studies the Jew and Christian have different promises. The Jew was promised an earthly reward and the Christian a Heavenly one. Now if a Jew becomes a Christian (or anyone who does) they are no longer Jew nor Gentile.
Then Jackie what reward do they get if they are neither Jew or Gentile. ?
Also read who these people are.
Re 7:9After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, stand
There are only rewards for Christians (which covers all nationalities) and Jews according to what I have read. There are those under the alter that God Himself comforts and I assume it is ones gone thru tribulation and died rather than take mark.
As a Christian it has already been worked out which fold we fit in as discussed earlier,
Those who will be on earth forever under Jesus rulership,
Those of the other fold or heavenly have Jobs, to rule the citizen on earth.
1000 yr reign Christians rule with Christ from New Jerusalem over those living on earth of all nationalities. Little season at end those who were born during this time will be tempted by satan & have to choose as all do. Then new Heaven and Earth
Example the number for the Jobs has already been set.144,000 as listed in Revelations the first picks started when Jesus picked his Disciples.Many generations of faithful humans have been picked globally,we can not pick ouselfs. Earthly hope is hope
What about the “great multitude, which no man can number” out of every nation?(made white in the lamb's blood) What would be the purpose of anything if all was preordained?
That is it Jackie the great crowd here are the citizens who will inherit the earth.
Mt 5:5“ Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
Example if you inherit a fortune it is yours.
Mild tempered people will be given earth land
No soul which has not tasted temptation and sharpened their sword accordingly will be wise enough to truly accept God
Matt 5-9 Meek inherit earth-seek righteousness to be filled-the merciful obtain mercy-pure in heart shall see God-peacemakers shall be called children of God. (What you name says all this so all must be looked to get meaning.)
Jackie Jesus was passing down the blessings,
It's like you have a Job,the boss says come to the meeting and you find out promotions
And raises are given out,Jesus was doing that, but the benefactors will only recieve these when the earth is clean
The earth is on its way to being torn to pieces by disasters, wars (Armageddon) destruction from God & during the 1000 years men will be busy cleaning it up; if it could be cleaned y would God make a new earth?Don't think we read the same book.
Jackie the earth is new based on a New government, global, notice Daniel 2:44
This is happening as we speak , the physical part is yet to come,like a store under new management same structure but
New management.The people will be willing citizens
Jackie you are correct about his co rulers as symbol of a bride , but that list is small 144,000 to be exact, those have been picked since the first disciples or apostles.
It has been 2000 years of Generations.
Sorry but you only have one reply box
The 144,000 whoever they are and whatever their purpose are Jews. You must always remember the bible has two groups of people. Once the rapture is over and we are taken away it is back to business with God and His Chosen Ones.
Re 5:9And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
The 144,000 is mixed of races
The point Jackie this scripture shows as example adoption of new Isreal, are spiritual sons, notice the fleshly were first sons
Ex 4:22You must say to Pharʹaoh, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “Israel is my son, my firstborn.
No one can adopt themselve
Never thought of it that way; seems like they are in the same place. That is where the pangs come from! lol In both cases.
Sounds reasonable. It does seem the mind and heart would have to have correlation to the soul.
I think you are correct on a physical basis, but we do have to consider our life force that runs our organs. The soul is tied to the body by a "silver thread." When the thread is broken, the soul is detached from the body and moves on.
Jackie why are their two folds of Sheep Jesus says he will attend to.
I notice you are saying (church.) One group.
There is something wrong here. We are just one Generation of peoplemany have came and gone and many as you say churches. What
Matt 16;16-18 The Church is the called out ones, the body of Christ began Acts ll Day of Pentecost through Holy Spirit until He comes for us. A group of many churches, many people.
Jackie notice these people are not subjects of heaven .
Ps 72:8 He will have subjects from sea to sea And from the River to the ends of the earth.
Ps 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.
Sounds sensible to me! That is were we feel hate or love.
MizJ. Our language translates Kingdom as, a Government,
Notice ,Joh 18:37 So Pilate said to him: “Well, then, are you a king?” Jesus answered: “You yourself are saying that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the
Also Jackie the earth will stand forever
Ec 1:4 A generation is going, and a generation is coming, But the earth remains forever.
Isaiah.45:18 Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no
Rev 21:1-4 I saw a new Heaven & earth for the 1st were passed away & there was no more sea. John saw New Jerusalem coming down from heaven like a bride for her husband. God is with His ppl to wipe away tears & no more death or suffering;
Good scripture Jackie, notice the word bride again. Coming down . Not going up.
This is a symbolic picture of the earth under Jesus rulership over the whole earth.
The sea means people against this Government which will not exist.only wilful
Yes but Jesus comes for us "rapture" and we go up and come back with Him as His bride and rule with Him from New Jerusalem in the air while Jews and gentiles are in human form on the earth. We of course won't be flesh but spirit as Jesus.
What you are saying is true and part not true, the old saying everybody can't be chiefs , there got to Indians.
Everybody righteous do not have a heavenly
Hope, and yet they will be here on earth, the people of old before Jesus will inherit eart